#54 - Pirate Money with Kevin Freeman

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to
another episode of the Wise WolfGold and Crypto Show.
But today, because of the guestwe have, I decided to combine
Paratroother with Wise Wolf andI brought on the other half of
Paratroother, which is MrAnderson and his brain.
Thanks for being here, sir.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thanks for having me Looking forward to it.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
I am too.
We were talking a lot off airand we've both explored the book
that this gentleman has wroteour guest, which is Kevin
Freeman.
He wrote a book called PirateMoney and it's great we're going
to get into this because thisis some awesome history.
Kevin Freeman is considered oneof the world's most leading
experts on the issues ofeconomic warfare and financial
terrorism.

(00:43):
Leading experts on the issuesof economic warfare and
financial terrorism.
He has consulted and briefedmembers of both the US House and
Senate present past DIA, dia,fbi, sec, homeland Security, the
Justice Department.
It's a fascinating bio and thebook is even more fascinating.
Kevin, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Thanks, Tony, it's great to be with you.
And Mr Anderson, good to theshow.
Oh, thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Tony, it's great to be with you and Mr Anderson,
good to see you.
Well, I want to jump in just alittle bit of your background
and what got you to write thisbook, and of course I'm looking
at the Amazon title here.
I like the subtitle becausethis is right up my alley about
the hidden plan for economicjustice, you know, and of course

(01:27):
, the founding fathers, andsetting us up a bulwark against
central bank digital currency.
What was the inspiration forPirate Money?

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Well, let me back up to.
Let's go back.
I'm an investment manager bytraining.
I've got a chartered financialanalyst designation.
I work for the great JohnTempleton.
I dealt with internationalmoney management.
We were handling billions ofdollars and in 2006, I was
invited in by RenaissanceCapital in Russia, in Moscow, to

(02:00):
attend a conference, which is avery elite conference.
Now, john Templeton would havebeen who they wanted, but he
passed the invitation to me andI was able to attend and study
what Russia was doing.
And Vladimir Putin was justcoming into power and I met and
learned about the BRICS nationsthat he was establishing and I
began to study economic warfare.

(02:21):
And when we had the 2008financial collapse, I
demonstrated the Pentagonelements of economic warfare.
And when we had the 2008financial collapse, I
demonstrated the Pentagonelements of economic warfare
that took place there.
And they hired me as aconsultant and I said look, we
got to be careful.
In 2008, we had a $10 trilliondebt.
I'm looking at US debt clocknow it's $36.3 trillion.
So we've gone almost four timessince 2008 to the present.

(02:45):
Which is what 17 years?
And if we do that again, thenwe'll be looking at $150
trillion in debt in 17 years,something like that.
It's just unsustainable.
So that's how I got involved inwriting the book Pirate Money
is.
I was looking for answers howdo we fix this unsustainable

(03:06):
fiat currency debt problem?
I knew what the answer was in2006.
I knew what the answer was in1971.
I was a 10-year-old kid and as a10-year-old kid I was looking
around and Nixon just took usoff the quasi gold standard that
we had.
Quasi meaning it was only 40%backed and it wasn't even good
for the American citizens, itwas only good for foreign

(03:27):
governments, and he eliminatedthat when France showed up in
New York and they said give usour gold.
And we said no because weclosed the gold window.
And I said this is wrong.
My father taught theConstitution.
He was a stockbroker by day andby night he would go around
Oklahoma in Baptist churchesteaching the United States

(03:47):
Constitution.
It's like wait a minute.
States can make nothing otherthan gold and silver coin tender
within the states.
So I have studied this prettymuch.
I was a big fan of TreasureIsland as a kid and I'm a big
fan of the US Constitutionpretty, pretty nerdy guy and I'd
studied that from the beginningand I knew that real money to

(04:08):
the founders were spanish milldollars and gold doubloons, also
known as pieces of eight andgold doubloons and if you say
those terms, uh, averageamerican says, oh, captain jack
sparrow, gold doubloons, piecesof eight, it's pirate money.
And so that's what our foundersthought real money was.
Uh, they didn't want to usespanish or british money, they
wanted to use spanish money, andmost of the spanish money that

(04:31):
circulated in the americas, uh,was the result of piracy, and so
that that was real money tothem.
So that's how I got theinspiration for pirate money.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
I like how you also uh, you, you changed my
perception of John Paul Jones,Cause I always thought of him as
the basis on Led Zeppelin andnow I think of him as a pirate
and a plundering cities and theimmigrant song blaring so so,
before the basis existed, therewas a pirate in the British

(05:01):
annals of of uh naval historyknown as John Paul Jones, who's
also the admiral founder of theAmerican Navy.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
I went to John Paul Jones Elementary as a
10-year-old kid, so that ties inas well.
But our founders actually werebenefited by piracy.
The Tea Party was an act ofpiracy.
The whole rebellion, had itbeen put down, would have been
seen as a piracy type rebellion.
George Washington would havebeen a criminal and all that.

(05:30):
But we won.
So we got to write the history.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
I was thinking of this interview and thinking of
your book and I talk about thisall the time because this is my
wheelhouse but the 19th centuryand we were discussing off air
about L Frank bombs, the Wizardofhouse.
But the 19th century and wewere discussing off-air about L
Frank bombs, the Wizard of Ozand the allegory there and
William Jennings Bryan, theCross of Gold speech, and the
end of the 19th century whenthey were calling for free
silver and the expansion of themoney supply.

(05:56):
Still, the American peopledidn't have to suffer under
inflation in the 19th century.
It wasn't a part of our history.
Because of the founding fathers, because of the Constitution,
because only Congress could coinmoney and it had to be gold and
silver species.
So you really don't have anyreal inflation at all in the
19th century, aside from pocketsof the Civil War and Lincoln's

(06:19):
greenback and of course you knowother political movements.
But there wasn't any inflationand that's something that's lost
, I think, in our timelinebecause we've gotten so used to
the hijacking of the moneysupply.
By the way, nothing changed.
The Constitution still is theConstitution.
It doesn't allow for a FederalReserve, doesn't allow for a

(06:41):
central bank, if you really readit that way.
I certainly do, and I thinkthat's shaped our reality now.
I mean everything that I fightagainst or speak up against,
whether it's the deep state orthe military industrial complex
or whatever it all just tracksback to the fake money which is
fiat currency, and it really istruly evil, in my opinion.

(07:04):
The founders knew that that wassomething that they were going
to have to set up a bulwarkagainst, and they did, and
unfortunately we've departedfrom the Constitution.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
You know they absolutely set that up.
The founders hated paper money.
It's very clear from theirwritings.
Jefferson says paper is poverty, it's only the ghost of money,
not money itself.
And that was a common theme allthe way up through the end of
the 19th century.
As you mentioned, you have JPMorgan.
You know gold is money,everything else is credit and

(07:35):
that notion.
We did have that aberrationduring where Lincoln, love
Lincoln.
But he suspended habeas corpus.
He did a lot of things that goagainst individual liberty to
preserve the union and so Iadmire him as a president my
least favorite president.
Growing up in my household, myfather had Cherokee heritage.

(07:55):
We hated Andrew Jackson he'sthe president who shall not be
named, trail of Tears, and allof that.
But he did one good thing heeliminated the central bank and
he understood that wealthypeople it's the whole cancel on
effect.
If you're close to and you cancreate money out of nothing,
then certain group of peoplewill profit and the rest of us
will be hurt.

(08:16):
That's a cancel on effectwritten by Richard cancel on in
the 18th century predicting theFrench revolution.
He was an Irish, frenchfrencheconomist and he predicted.
He said if you're close to theking and he's making a lot of
money, you'll get wealthy.
We see that today.
You can actually correlate in aFederal Reserve chart that I've
got.
It's almost a perfectcorrelation between M2, money

(08:39):
growth and the top one-tenth ofone percent.
Now, I'm a conservative.
I'm a conservative as aneconomist, I'm conservative
politically and everything else.
People will say to me wait, areyou talking about the wealth
gap?
We don't talk about the wealthgap because we you know
everybody ought to be able tomake money and everything.
No, there is a real wealth gap.
It's not caused because richpeople are, you know, stealing

(09:02):
from poor people.
It's caused because thegovernment's spending too much
money.
Therefore, they're printing toomuch money, and rich people
know how to take advantage ofthe printing of excess money.
It's a hosepipe of money thatallows Mark Zuckerberg to build
Facebook as he's built it, andto own it outright without
getting the rest of us asinvestors in it and building it.
They built, you know, uber,they built so many different

(09:24):
things without gettingindividual, normal Americans.
It's only reserved for thewealthy, and so if we had sound
money, we wouldn't have a wealthgap.
It would be equal opportunityfor everybody and the wealth gap
wouldn't be where it is.
So does that make me aprogressive?
No, it makes me a conservative,believing that real money is

(09:44):
the solution to the wealth gap.
Not government spending, notextra government programs, not
higher taxes, but actuallygiving us a sound money basis.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, Kevin, that that's really right, in line
with something I alwaysemphasize each election is
nobody is talking about theissue I really care about, which
is the soundness of our money.
So do you have any ideas?
Why no politicians raise thisissue?
I mean Thomas Massey.
It's one of the only few peoplein Congress.
He has that little debt counteron his lapel that makes people

(10:15):
nervous, and elevators, butoutside of him you have people
like Ted Cruz reading, Dr Seussyou know, on the Senate floor in
2013.
So why do they not care, DrSeuss, you know?

Speaker 3 (10:25):
on the Senate floor in 2013.
So why do they not care?
And Dr Seuss, by the way, thatreading is what convinced the
Chinese Communist Party thatthey should join Putin.
Putin has said we've got toremove the dollar's reserve
currency.
In 2006.
He tried to destroy the dollarin 2008 by dumping every Fannie
Mae Freddie Mac bond that washeld by Russia and tried to

(10:47):
crash the system.
And the Chinese didn't join himuntil Xi Jinping came to power
in 2013.
And it was, he said.
Look, the world cannot be heldcaptive by a nation that is
reading children's storiesrather than dealing with their
debt.
And I'm Senator Cruz's.
I'm a big fan of Senator Cruz.
He's a he's a good friend.
I've supported him in all ofhis elections and I understand

(11:10):
why he did it, but it lookedfoolish to the world and I want
one of those debt clock pens.
Where do I get one?
I've seen Tom.
I want a congressman.
Give me a debt clock pen.
Those are the coolest thingever.
No-transcript.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
I like that.
I'm going to use that from nowon.
That's exactly right, though,but I think if you take a step
back and you look at theproblems we have you mentioned
the debt and the 36 trillion andyou look at the unfunded
liabilities, you look at ouroverstretched empire, the fact
that you mentioned Russia andChina and de-dollarization, the
war against the dollar, but alot of that is.
There's a CIA term calledblowback when it comes to
foreign policy.
A lot of the stuff thatproblems that we're having with

(12:13):
the dollar is actually blowbackfrom the 40 different sanctions
we have on 36 differentcountries.
The weaponization of the dollar.
I think that you know thereallocating of funds that were
taken from Russia and given toUkraine.
I mean, you can look at thatand look.
Other nations take notice andthey want to dump the dollar
system, the SWIFT system, andget away from it.

(12:33):
My study of BRICS, which youknow Brazil, russia, india,
china, south Africa now what?
Saudi Arabia?
There are like 25 nations inthe periphery.
They're like 50 percent of theworld's GDP or 60%, or something
like that.
They want to get out of thedollar system.
You really can't blame them atthis point for the way that
America has been run, especiallysince the fall of the Berlin

(12:55):
Wall and the end of communism,and the things that we could
have done, the changes we couldhave made.
We went in the wrong direction,in my opinion.
Went on the crusades and theyou know, expansion of empire,
expansion of NATO, all thosethings instead of going back to
our roots and that's somethingyou know.
I've followed Pat Buchanan formany, many years as a young man,

(13:16):
reading his works, like thedeath of the West and his book
on economic nationalism.
I don't know where you stand onthat.
He wrote a book in the late 90scalled the Great Betrayal.
It had to do with the falloutfrom NAFTA and GATT and other
things that had depleted theAmerican manufacturing base.
And we've seen theglobalization of the economy and

(13:37):
the siphoning off of our wealth.
All of that has a major effecton the ability for America to
project power and to be a leader.
So we're losing the grip onthat through arrogance and
through mismanagement, and Ithink the two words that really
focus I focus on are on purpose,and that's what I look at when

(13:57):
I see the waning of the countrythat I love and we're watching
this happen and you can't reallyblame these countries for
wanting to get out of the dollarsystem, but I wanted to get
your opinion on that.
Your book, I think, focuses on,even though nobody's really
talking about.
We are talking about it, peopleare talking about it.
The politicians aren'tnecessarily, but I think it's

(14:20):
the politics of the future,because the monetary system is
unsustainable it's the politicsof the future, because the
monetary system is unsustainable.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Right, right, all right.
First off, let me address yesand no.
You can't blame other countries, correct?
Elon Musk said if you weaponizeyour currency enough times,
other countries will stop usingit.
It's 100 percent right on that,and so I entirely agree with
them.
And the Bretton Woods systemwas set up originally where we
would be tied to gold andeverybody else would be tied to
the dollar.
So I don't blame them.

(14:51):
We got away from that.
But the no side of that is,yeah, there are countries that
understandably have a verystrong argument that we've
handed them because we've beenprofligating our spending and
our patterns.
But I can tell you, in 2006,vladimir Putin wanted to end the
dollar because he wanted toreplace it.
It's like a Marxist I hatecapitalism, hate it and

(15:14):
capitalism's evil.
Well, no, you don't really wantto eliminate capitalism.
What you really want to do istake power and grab power, and
Putin's motivation here was tograb power.
It was not because we you know,we had a $5 trillion debt,
national debt, in the year 2000.
On this day in 2000, it was$5.7 trillion and Putin was

(15:36):
complaining about the dollareven then.
It gave us too much powerbecause he wanted that power.
Have we abused it Absolutely?
Do we deserve to have itprotected?
Gosh, I do understand.
I mean, the Saudis have takenall these dollars under the
petrodollar arrangement and allof a sudden they see the
purchasing power diminish andeverything else.
I get it, I really do.

(15:57):
And fiat currency is an evil.
Now here's something else.
All great empires and I do notwant an empire, I want the
United States to be a nation,not an empire.
But let's be honest, we'veacted empirical as if we were an
empire.
And here's the reality.
Traditionally, empires lastabout 250 years.

(16:18):
That's it.
Whether you do to AlexanderFraser Tittler, who was writing
at the contemporary of GeorgeWashington, the founding of this
country, who says you know whydo they fail?
Basically, once the peoplelearn they can vote in a
democracy, lord Jess, out of thepublic treasury, they fail.
And we're at that point here.

(16:38):
But it also goes back to Fate ofEmpires, which is a book that
goes back to Rome.
The Fate of Empires, which is abook that goes back to Rome In
68 AD.
In Rome, a denarius was 95%silver.
200 years later, in that 200,250 year cycle, it was 5% silver
.
That's why empires fail is theydebase their currency.

(17:00):
They realize they've got to buythe people off with bread and
circuses and they pay for withfake money and they pretend
until it runs out, and then itdoes, and that's why great
empires cease to exist.
It's generally a monetaryphenomenon, and that's what
we're facing right now, unlesswe address it very swiftly well
tony and I were discussingrecently.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
There was this interesting anniversary.
I believe it was the 110thanniversary since Henry Ford
introduced the $5 wage and theeight-hour workday, and he did
that without the stranglehold ofthe government.
He introduced that himself andif you adjust for inflation that
baseline salary $5, itextrapolates out to about $20 an

(17:44):
hour.
So I'm kind of in this weirdage bracket where I'm not young,
I'm not old, so I get spit outof God's mouth basically.
But I don't know the reallygood days to really hearken back
to.
But do you see us ever gettingback to a point where we can
have single income supporthouseholds again?

Speaker 3 (18:05):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean it takes some quick but
painful fixes.
I was just with a guest on myprivate money radio program, jim
Simpson, who wrote theManufactured Crisis, and we were
talking about solutions.
Well, one of the solutions ifyou lowered regulation this is
the libertarian portion of mecoming out now and took it back

(18:28):
to the 1950 standard, theaverage household income today
would be $300,000 in today'sdollars.
That's how much regulation hascost us.
The average household income isabout $60,000.
So regulations are crushinggrowth.
The other thing crushing growthis government.
Auburn University the study itwas recently recirculated for

(18:51):
every federal bureaucrat hired,138 private sector jobs are lost
.
Literally.
We've been hiring government.
That's where most of theemployment has gone the past
four years under the Bidenadministration—has been gone
into government orgovernment-related jobs and they
are crushing private sectorinnovation and capabilities.

(19:12):
And the beneficiary of that isbig corporations and the US
government and it's created thissystem that is eliminating.
So if you grow your governmentfaster than you grow your
economy, you rack up debt.
If you grow your governmentfaster than you grow your
economy, you rack up debt.
If you grow your economy fasterthan you grow your government,
you reduce government debt.

(19:32):
So you print more money andcreate more inflation when you
grow your government faster.
The solution is grow governmentslower and grow the economy
faster.
And the way to do that is lowerregulation.
Get less government, lessbureaucracy.

(19:52):
Go back to the foundingprinciples.
That formula is all you need to, 20 years from now, have single
income families that areprosperous and successful.
You can do it every time.

(20:20):
It's tried.
It's being tried in Argentinanow reducing the size of
government.
It's working.
It worked beautifully in HongKong to the Chinese communists.
Very simple you inflate it outof existence.
For example, when my parentsbought their beautiful new home
in 1971, they were shocked thatthey were going to spend $50,000

(20:41):
on a new home.
That's an unheard of,impossible amount.
Man, we're moving into ourmansion.
They could not believe that andthey got.
They borrowed money at a veryhigh interest rate and their
interest rate was, you know, in1971, I don't even know exactly
what it was, but it was probablysimilar to what we have today

(21:02):
now, not what we had three yearsago or four years ago and they
paid a $300 a month housepayment and they were shocked oh
, where are we going to pay $300?
Well, 30 years later, inflationsolved that problem because that
$300 a month was nothing, youknow.
It's less than they wereprobably spending on dining out

(21:22):
30 years later.
So inflation will solve thedebt problem.
The problem is, people will behurt in the interim in the
meantime.
That's why we've come up withthis whole notion of pirate
money, which is a means at thestate level for people to opt
out of the fiat currency systemas an option and they could do
all their business in gold andsilver and literally step away

(21:43):
from the flood, that inflationand the damage.
It's like an arc that you steponto until the inflation
subsides and the land clearswhen you've grown your
government back and you'vesolved that problem.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Well, that's an interesting thought experiment.
I hadn't thought about interestrates going back to 71.
I do know, you know you go offthe gold standard August 15th
1971, and fast forward to 1979,and they're raising interest
rates to the teen with PaulVolcker, and the reason they did
that was to contract the moneysupply because of the Nixon
inflation shock that happenedthrough the 70s.

(22:17):
And there's two things that wejust crossed the 50th
anniversary last year.
One was the agreement I want toget your take on this too the
agreement that we had with theSaudis for the petrodollar in
1974, which just lapsed and wedid nothing.
And I, you know, in my line ofwork in alternative media, the
petrodollar was always the thingthat we go abroad, you know,
and all the empire and all ofthe intervention, and you know

(22:40):
the Iraq war and everything inthe Middle East, interventions,
deserts, that was all about the,the petrodollar.
Guess it wasn't because wedidn't do anything about it.
But the other anniversary wejust crossed was Ford, gerald
Ford, making gold legal for theaverage person to own again, and
that was New Year's Eve, 1974.

(23:02):
So you know a couple of thingsthat happened 50 years ago and,
like you said, I mean you can'trely anymore on the dollar.
You can't put those dollarsaway like previous generations
could, and you know it holdsthat purchasing power.
It harnesses all that workbecause it's going to diminish
and the average person isn'ttaught that.
They think that if you save it,you know you become a saver.

(23:23):
Robert Kiyosaki says savers arelosers, and they are.
You're losing purchasing power,you're losing your wealth
because of the central bank,because of the expansion of the
money supply.
But I wanted to get your takeon what happened with the
petrodollar, kevin.
I mean, why did they just letthat lapse?

Speaker 3 (23:42):
Okay, let's go back in the history, and you're
entirely right, tony.
What you said is absolutelyaccurate and correct.
Twenty years ago, if you madethat statement, you were a
conspiracy theorist.
There's no such thing as apetrodollar.
We don't have an agreement withthe Saudis.
It just happens to be thatthey're buying our debt because
it's the safest and best debt inthe world, and, of course, the

(24:03):
Saudis want to own dollars.
The reality of it is it was anagreement struck by Henry
Kissinger in 1974, based on thenotion that we just ended, that
we don't want to have any moreoil shocks that hurt the world
economy.
There's a 1973 oil crisis, andgood, we're not going to be
producing our oil to competewith you, which we certainly

(24:24):
have lots of and we could do.
We're going to buy your oil andwe're going to let you own that
as long as you recycle it backinto US Treasury debt, and so we
will protect you.
We will be your militaryprotection.
Why did we let it lapse?
I don't know that we had muchof a choice in it.
Number one we are so arrogantnow that we no longer remember

(24:45):
the crisis of 73, 74.
Or perhaps you could say theBiden administration was run by
individuals that want to see theUnited States knock down
several notches on the worldstage, and we want to be just
one nation among many.
Or it could be that the Chinesewere in talking to the Saudis
and saying you know, what do youreally buy from America other

(25:07):
than their largest export, whichare treasury bonds?
What do you buy from them?
What are they going to do tomake your life better?
Look what we can manufacture inChina, and, by the way, we need
your oil now too.
And why should the dollar reignsupreme?
And so they talked the Saudisinto abandoning an inflation
hurt dollar and starting toinvest.

(25:29):
Otherwise, you don't have tohold with this.
It was a 50-year agreement.
Why do you have to renew it?
We just arrogantly went onsaying that we have what is
known as the myth of dollarpermanence.
In Washington, they assume thedollar is always and always will
be permanent, just like theBritish did in the 1910s and
1920s with the British pound.
The sun never sets on theBritish empire.

(25:51):
It will always be the dominantcurrency, or the Spanish before
that, or the Dutch before that.
All reserve currencies of theworld have a shelf life unless
they are real, sound, historicalmoney, and the only thing
that's been real, soundhistorical money from Bible
times to the present is gold andsilver, occasionally, and in

(26:13):
limited amounts, copper.
Everything else has been fiathas been without value.
I have nothing against Bitcoin.
In fact, if I knew Bitcoin weretruly limited in value and
truly provided privacy, I wouldlove it.
However, I can't make itconstitutional currency.

(26:34):
The founders didn't write intothe Constitution that a state
can make Bitcoin legal tender.
Therefore, until that is addedto the Constitution, where I
have this protection in legalframework protection, I fear
that governments will try andsquash it or co-opt it or
control it.
Other than that, I think it'sgreat.
I think limited money supplythat tends to grow with the

(26:58):
growth of human endeavors.
That's what works, whatfunctions best Right now.
The US dollar is not tied toanything.
We have the myth of dollarpermanence.
Other nations want to stopusing it, and so what we see is
we see a crisis from fumes ofAmerican military might,
perceived American militarymight, and so forth, and we're

(27:28):
losing adherence on a regularbasis.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
I agree with you that the loss of the petrodollar
seemed like an inside job andyou had Bernstein, the head
economic advisor for Biden,trying to answer on 60 Minutes
about what currency was, orsomething.
He just couldn't do it, buthe'd written articles in the New
York Times about why we shouldlose the king dollar, why we
should lose the world's reservecurrency status.

(27:51):
It would be better for us andI'm thinking that's absolute
insanity.
It's the only thing holding usup.
It's the only thing propping upthe disastrous decisions that
we've made.
Economically, I mean socially,domestically, foreign policy
everything's held up by thedollar and as we watch
de-dollarization rapidly takeplace I mean you look at 2022,

(28:13):
kevin.
I mean we had the sanctionsthat were immediately after the
new sanctions were placed onRussia.
The ruble fell and then itbounced back because they
started talking about pegging acertain amount to gold and you
know again, it was in the tankfor about 60 days and then shot
back up.
And then you watched thepercentages of dollar usage

(28:34):
decline.
It went from like 70 some oddpercent, in 2001 down to in the
40 percents right now.
It uses it around the world, somoney velocity is slowing down.
I remember being a young soldierin Iraq after the invasion and
walking around paying foreverything in dollars.
They didn't take the Iraqidinar.
You know we were sent to thethat was the first place I was

(28:56):
sent to was the bank in Mosul.
They were running out withgiant boxes of Iraqi dinar with
Saddam Hussein's face on it.
Nobody wanted them.
I watched a paper currency diein real time and people would
accept the dollars.
Now you fast forward.
20 years later, it's illegal touse dollars.
They started cracking down onbanks in Iraq Because, again,
the periphery of the BRICS andwhat's going on right now, I

(29:18):
think the reshuffling of theGrand Chessboard, so
de-dollarization is rapidlyhappening.
It doesn't seem like there'sanything on the horizon
politically to try to bring thatback.
You have Trump talking about100 percent tariffs on nations
who want to create their owncurrency.
But, kevin, I don't see thatBRICS are trying to create their
own currency.
But, kevin, I don't see thatBRICS are trying to create their

(29:38):
own currency.
From all my research, I thinkthey're just trying to use gold
and cross-border payment systemsand commodities.
What's your opinion on BRICSand a competing currency?

Speaker 3 (29:49):
Well, a couple of things.
First off, let's talk about thede-dollarization.
It's happening not just at theBRICS nation.
It's happening at the centralbank level around the world, as
they're reducing their holdingsin dollars relative to gold.
Everything they're buying isgold In terms of are the BRICS
nefarious or is it legitimate?

(30:10):
Both, it's both true.
It's nefarious in that theBRICS nations want to use this
as a weapon against the USdollar and against America, and
there's no question.
You mentioned something you said.
I think it was the basis, forwhat you were saying was that we

(30:34):
don't want to get cut offsuddenly, and so forth.
But Jared Bernstein, that'swhat it was.
Jared Bernstein actually saidit would be good for us to lose
King Dollar, and he's right.
This is the Jared Bernsteinthat, by the way, couldn't
answer what modern monetarytheory was, couldn't explain why
it was that we borrowed moneyand we also printed money, which

(30:55):
doesn't make sense unless youhave a central bank in between
profiting from it.
Why do you?
If you print money, why do youhave to borrow money?
And he'd say, well, we printthe money and then we lend it to
.
No, is that what we do?
You know, it's pretty funnyclip on the internet.
He doesn't understand modernmonetary theory is a failure.
But where he is right is thatwe would be better off if we

(31:18):
weren't the reserve currency tothis degree.
And now don't just clip thatout and say, oh, kevin says we
should lose the reserve status.
I'm like we'd be better offlike the guy that has overspent
his credit card gets cut offfrom the credit card company and
20 years later he's turned hislife around because he realized
he couldn't keep spending.
Right, that's how we'd bebetter off.

(31:38):
It would be extraordinarilypainful in the short term if our
credit card gets cut off andthat's essentially what the
federal government has has anunlimited credit card and if
they, the banks call up and sayno, no, no more, you can't
borrow anymore and you're goingto have to start paying back and
the interest rate you're payingis no longer a teaser rate.
It's going to be an exorbitantnormal market rate.
Interest rates you're paying isno longer a teaser rate.

(32:00):
It's going to be an exorbitantnormal market rate.
It'd be very painful.
20 years from now the youngperson would be better off
because I finally gave up mygambling addiction or my
spending addiction or whateverand I got sober and clean and
now I'm better off.
Yeah, but it'd be terrible inthe short term.
And here's the worst part, tony, I was brought in by DARPA when
I was the Pentagon consultanton economic warfare and they

(32:21):
asked me to teach them how towage economic warfare.
And I was in there telling them.
I said no, no, you're missingmy point here.
My point is they're waging itagainst us and we need to shore
up the dollar, how we need toget sound money principles, cut
spending.
It's all in my report that Iproduced for the Pentagon.
They didn't want to hear any ofthat.
Darpa wanted to know how do weweaponize it and use it.

(32:44):
I said well, here's how you canweaponize it.
You can cut them off from thisand this and this, but don't do
that.
Well, I'm the guy that was intheir teaching.
I'm sure there were others, butyou can blame me to a certain
degree.
And it's like why'd you teachDARPA how to weaponize our
currency and use it againstother nations?
They did, and I warned themdon't do that, because this is
where it will end.

(33:04):
We're exactly where I thoughtwe would be If we did that.
They didn't want to listen,they wanted to weaponize and
it's very dangerous when youthink you're the only guy in
town and that you you're theonly one with a gun and you're
the only one that rules thewhole street and everything.
No, it's not true.
There are others and they canlearn to weaponize back, and
that's what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
So have they invited you back to the Pinnacle?

Speaker 3 (33:27):
No, DARPA has not invited me back.
I was there during the I meanjust to get into some of the
inside baseball stuff.
It's in my book Secret Weaponbaseball stuff it's in my book
Secret Weapon.
I was there during the very endof the Bush administrations
when they hired me, and thestart of the Obama
administration.
And literally I got a call froma guy named Rich Higgins who

(33:50):
was the head of Solik, who wasbasically my contractor.
He contracted me and Richcalled me one day and said we're
going to classify your researchand if you ever speak of it
again you will be thrown in jail.
You are never to discuss this.
And I said what are you talkingabout?
So I reached out through afriend to a former CIA director

(34:10):
who contacted three sittingsenators John Kyle, joe
Lieberman and John McCain, soone a former presidential
candidate, recent presidentialcandidate, one a former vice
presidential candidate, but onthe Democrat side, and John Kyle
was a stalwart Republican outof out of Arizona.
And they told the Pentagon ifyou classify Freeman's research
and threaten him, we will readit on the Senate floor tomorrow

(34:34):
and we'll expose all that you'redoing.
And then they called back andsaid well, we apologize, mr
Freeman, you misunderstood us.
We meant we could protect youand I said no, no, you said I
would disappear, you would throwme in jail.

(34:54):
And then later they said youknow, we can make people
disappear.
He was on the National SecurityCouncil.
He wrote this book called theMemo, which, oh, shocker,
shocker.
New York Times, washington Post,said what an idiot he is.
He's claiming that the deepstate is out to get Donald Trump
.
He doesn't know anything and,of course, he proved to be right
.
Rich has passed away tragicallya couple of years back.
I don't blame him personally,he was just the messenger.

(35:15):
But the bottom line is no, theyhave not invited me back.
And yes, they have threatenedmy life.
And yes, they have threatenedto throw me in jail.
Fortunately, I was able to getout from under that and got to
know good people like Mike Flynnat the Defense Intelligence
Agency at the time.
I got to know Bannon when hewas in the White House.

(35:38):
I've gotten to know, you know,andy Marshall, the Office of Net
Assessment, and I warned himdon't do this.
Let's not make America anempire.
Let's make America aconstitutional republic.
Let's show other people theliberty path and help them get
along the liberty path.
Let's go back to sound money.
Let's reduce regulation andkind mean the kind of make

(35:58):
America great again.
In fact, I wrote a book calledGame Plan how to Protect
Yourself from the Coming CyberEconomic Attack and it listed
the MAGA type steps.
You know, drill, drill, drill.
We've got to produce our ownenergy.
We've got to reduce the deficit.
You know.
It listed all these things tomake America great again, last

(36:19):
of which was return to ourspiritual roots and not try and
be a empire but be aconstitutional republic.
No, the government has not beenopen to that message.
I'm hopeful that the Trumpadministration and many of my
friends who are going into thatwill be open to that message.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Well, that's one of the things I really love about
you breaking down pirate moneyand I'd like you to do that.
The six pillars, but the firstbeing biblical right, getting
back to the biblical foundationof what is money.
And this is kind of an oddballquestion, but let's say they did
roll out CBDC.
Would there be any way toreject that just on a religious

(36:56):
basis?

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Actually, constitutionally, you could make
the argument in court and hopeyou win.
Of course, theyconstitutionally made an
argument against FDRconfiscating gold in 1933.
It was by executive order, itwasn't even by congressional
action, and the courts upheldhis really bad executive order,

(37:20):
and he did it because ofhoarding.
So how do you fight that?
Well, the only way to fight itis to have an option, to opt out
, and the opt out is at thestate level.
If the states exercise theirconstitutional authority, then
it becomes a battle not you,tony, or you, mr Anderson,
against the monolithic USgovernment.
It becomes a battle of thestate of Texas or Utah or

(37:44):
Florida and we fight.
And if we get enough of ustogether fighting, they lose.
And so we give an opt out towhere people could actually have
their money outside of thecentral bank digital currency,
because unfortunately, thecourts have ruled that the
Congress can coin money andthey've allowed the creation of
the Federal Reserve and theFederal Reserve Act, and so they

(38:06):
delegated that authority to theFederal Reserve System, which
you could argue isunconstitutional in itself, but
it's withstood challenge allthis time.
So if you can't beat them, thenyou go around them and you
create an optional alternativethat people can use.
That's why they fear Bitcoin somuch.
The problem with Bitcoin isthat it's become well accepted,

(38:32):
well adopted by individuals andbecause it's in use and large
money interests and so forth,the Congress is loathe to squash
it.
Here's my solution is we createconstitutional currency using
gold and silver, where we havepeer-to-peer transfers of gold
and silver for goods andservices, and as quick as we get

(38:52):
it passed, the first thing youdo is you start donating money
at the federal level in gold.
You call up their office andsay, hey, I want to donate some
money to your campaign.
Oh, okay, well, here you can doit on our website WinRed for
Republicans, probably WinBluefor Democrats, and you can
donate.
It's like, no, no, no, I wantto do it peer-to-peer and I want

(39:14):
to give you gold.
Will you take gold?
And of course, they'll take it.
And once you do, you have them.
Once we create a gold-basedalternative monetary system,
people will adopt it.
Make it optional, don't make itmandatory.
Let the free market determineand the free market people will
gravitate to that.
And once we have that centralbank, here's your choice.
You can be monitored by thefederal government with a fiat

(39:34):
currency that is backed bynothing that can control.
You can cut you off, can add to, can do reparations through or
whatever, or you can have actualreal money and you can operate
in that.
Well, if I'm buying somethingand I walk in with real money, I
expect a better price than Iwalk in with fake money.
It's just that you get a betterdeal.

(39:56):
When you go pay cash for a car,pay cash for a car, you can get
a better deal.
When you go pay cash for a car,pay cash for a car, you can get
a better deal.
They'll give you money off.
Or you can say as they seller,do you want to be paid in fake
money or real money?
I want real money, and sopeople will gravitate and use
that, as long as you allow thefree market to set the value and

(40:18):
allow the free market tooperate the system.
Optionally, state-basedconstitutional currency, which
is what I advocate for in thebook pirate money, is the
opt-out that really killscentral bank digital currency
without killing it, because thestate can't.
If they try this in florida,governor deSantis, good for you.
You got it passed and you saidthat.

(40:40):
You said very plainly thatcentral bank digital currency
will never be available toFloridians.
Well, I just want to point outthat in the 1970s, states one by
one said we will not accept a55 mile per hour speed limit.
That's not the federalgovernment's control.
This is in our state border andof course they force it on them
.
Even California voted Prop 8that says marriage is between a

(41:02):
man and a woman.
That lasted for how long?
I mean California, the bluestof blue states, probably the
most progressive, probably themost socially liberal state,
voted to have marriage definedas between one man and one woman
.
The federal government came inand overruled that with a court
decision.
So giving an option, that's theonly legitimate way to really

(41:27):
prevent central bank digitalcurrency.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
My reading of history , kevin.
If you look back, I thinkFranklin Roosevelt, with his
executive order in April of 33,I think really took a lot of
people off guard and flat footed.
I don't think the Americanpeople were anywhere near ready
to fight back against that orunderstand it, and especially
since we've lived through thismassive inflation and

(41:51):
devaluation of the dollar and,of course, the corruption and
all the expansion of the debt.
Of course, the corruption andall the expansion of the debt.
I think you're right.
The states and thedecentralization of money is
what's necessary in order tohave any semblance of freedom or
a constitutional republic, andI think we're better poised to

(42:11):
do that today.
I remember I was speaking withMr Anderson at a Republican
event in December of 22.
Anderson at a Republican eventin December of 22.
And I was talking about thegreatest threat to our liberty,
human liberty in general was thecentral bank, digital currency,
and no one knew what I wastalking about.
If you give that same talktoday, they do.
It's infiltrated the populardiscourse and I think that's a

(42:35):
wonderful progress.
I'm very encouraged by thatbecause it's not just the fringe
and I've been talking about itfor years and talking about the
hijacking of the money supplyand what you know.
Again, the death of the dollarand what replaces it.
I look at things like Davos andthe World Economic Forum, and
they were just so excited a fewmonths ago that 97 percent of
countries have adopted some sortof white paper blueprint for

(42:58):
central bank digital currency.
They want to run everythingthrough a digital hub and that,
you know that allows them tocontract and expand the money
supply in real time.
It also really just, catherineoften fits that it disguises
surveillance as money, andthat's truly what it is.
It's the end of politics, it'sthe end of freedom, it's the end

(43:18):
of movement, of choice, ofeverything.
And again, that's what we're upagainst.
The subtitle of your book ispushing back against central
bank digital currency.
Where do you see us in thatfight now?
Are they going to deliver this?
And is it going to look likeNigeria, where they think, oh,
we got them used to Bitcoin,they're liking this and they

(43:39):
give them the CBDC and it's justinert?
Are they going to use a crisisto implement it?
What's your viewpoint on wherethe United States goes now with
a CBDC?

Speaker 3 (43:49):
Well, I think they've got two choices.
And, by the way, we had a Bankfor International Settlements
whistleblower.
He spoke multiple languages andhe was in doing coding for BIS
to create and they have thecapabilities to do it now and he
said that plainly, but he spokea language they didn't expect
him to speak and he grew up inVenezuela, so he'd seen what

(44:13):
happens when they just destroythe currency.
And he listened in and he saidhe validated what your worst
fears are it's all about control.
It's the one world money systemthat all coordinates, connects
and they control everything inevery body.
My thoughts on how they'llimplement it is one of two ways.
One way would be a bankingcrisis and all of a sudden,

(44:35):
we're gonna solve and we'regonna shore up the banks, but
we're gonna put CBDC in andeverybody's just going to switch
over to it because we're in ayou know, never let a serious
crisis go to waste Rama manual,which goes back to the whole
manufactured crisis idea.
Or the second way and this is avery seductive way A friend of
mine.
He's a Baylor finance professor.

(44:56):
He was the chief investmentofficer at Wells Fargo.
He and I served together at theTempleton group and managed one
of the arms of Templetontogether.
A brilliant guy has a CFA, hasa doctorate in behavioral
finance.
I mean really, really smart guy.
I had dinner with him a coupleof nights ago.

(45:16):
He's the best man at my wedding.
And Eric said I'm so afraid I'mgoing to take the mark of the
beast.
He told me this years ago.
I said what do you mean?
You're going to take it?
You've read the Bible, right?
You know where it goes, right?
He said oh yeah, I've read theBible.
I understand.
I'm afraid I'm going to take it.
I said why do you think you'regoing to take it, eric?

(45:39):
What would cause you to take onthe mark of the beast, fearful
that you couldn't buy or sellwithout it?
He said no, no, they'llprobably market it and offer
frequent flyer miles for thefirst 10 adopters or first
thousand adopters or whatever,and I'll sign up for it on the

(46:00):
internet before I even know it.
And that's what I think theywill do, just like they did with
the vaccines.
It will be the same approach,do you remember?
It's hard to remember back allthat long ago.
What was it Four years ago whenthe vaccine rollout first
happened and they said ooh, ifyou take this vaccine, you can
be one of the very few peopleallowed to go out in public and
fly on airplanes and visitmuseums and all that, and but
only if you're in the privilegeclass, only if you're older or

(46:23):
maybe have health issues or or.
And.
So people lined up for it andthey were like I had calls from
friends and like I'm so excitedI got my vaccine today.
They did it and it wascompletely voluntary and it was
a special privilege.
What they'll do is, until itwas mandatory and you had to
take it or you'll get fired.
That's how it worked.
It started voluntary and thenit became mandatory.

(46:46):
What they'll do here is they'llsay look, your tax refund.
You can get it six weeks soonerif you'll accept it in the form
of central bank digitalcurrency.
Go to this website, open youraccount and we'll put the money
in your account today and youcan use it today.
You'll have to opt in, there'llbe terms of service and you'll
have to agree to it.
It's not your money, it belongsto the government and we have

(47:07):
all these rights, but you won'tread the terms of service.
You'll just opt in and get yourfree money and people will come
to me.
I guarantee it and I said I'mnot taking that.
And I said, like I didn't takeany of the paycheck protection
program, I refuse to take it.
But it's free money, you shouldtake it.
You can justify taking it.
You should take it.
And I said I'm not taking it,I'm not even going to apply for
it.
I refuse to take it.

(47:28):
But you'll be paying for it intaxes.
And I'll tell you what.
As soon as I get that freemoney in the form of central
bank digital currency I've heardyou, kevin I'm going to go out
and buy gold with it.
And would it be better for meto have the gold that I get with
the central bank digitalcurrency?
They said, yeah, but you'regoing to open an account and
you're going to sign a term ofservice.
And when you sign that term ofservice I don't know if you

(47:48):
recall the story it happened notlong ago with Disney there was
a doctor, she ended up takingher epinephrine going to the
hospital and she died.
The husband decides to sue, hesues Disney, he sues the
restaurant owner and so forth.

(48:08):
Disney says you can't sue us.
You once took a free trialsubscription to Disney Plus and
you watched our Disney Plus andit's agreed that you would never
sue us, that you would alwayssubmit to arbitration.
If it weren't for a largepublic outcry, he would have
gotten nothing out of Disney.
But because he had the largepublic outcry, they agreed not

(48:31):
to hold him accountable to theterms of service that he had
signed to.
That's ridiculous.
They agreed to not hold himaccountable so he was able to
settle with Disney.
He probably got some money forit and Disney got held a little
bit more accountable.
Terms of service are death andwe all have agreed to so many of
them with Apple, with you know.
I'm surprised that when we pullup to the pump at the local gas

(48:53):
station that you don't agree toa term of service, they are
using these and that money isnot yours.
And once you agree to that termof service to get the patient by
the way, the PaycheckProtection Program as a
financial advisor, they cameback and punished people who
took it.
Because did you disclose toyour client that you were under
great financial distress?

(49:14):
Because that was the terms.
That was the terms you had tosay that you were caused
financial distress.
And if you fail to disclosethat to your clients, they could
selectively kick you out ofbeing a financial advisor.
They'd use the law against youif they wanted to punish you.
The government had that hookinto you and they could control
you, which is why I filled outall the paperwork.

(49:35):
I was guaranteed to get tens ofthousands of dollars and I just
stopped.
I prayed about it, stopped andsaid no, I'm not taking it.
People will take central bankdigital currency thinking it's
free money, not realizing thatthere are hooks in that money
that will not go away.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Right and you talk about this.
I've heard you talk about it inspeeches too.
But it's funny we're discussingthis because, to Trey Parker's
credit, about 10 years ago wehad a South Park episode about
this very worrisome detail.
But yeah, the programmablemoney and the time restrictions
placed on it to control behavior, like can you imagine time

(50:12):
stamps with your food stamps?
And with me, my mind naturallywandered to this idea of the
15-minute city that they openlytalk about all the time.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
That's a conspiracy theory, by the way.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
I know.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
It's a very real, true thing, but it's a
conspiracy theory.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
And it's good for you .
Charlie Kirkwood told me this.
He says here's what I'm goingto say that is not happening,
but if it were happening itwould be good for you.
That's how they answer everyconspiracy theory.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
Yeah, they wait till it becomes just, you know,
self-evident and they're like,oh yeah, by the way, we have
that and we're doing that, andwhy?
don't you like it.
What's wrong with you?
Yeah, exactly, that's usuallyhow all of this works.
I see a danger and I don't wantto get your opinion on this.
I'm of two minds when it comesto the bimetallic system, the

(51:05):
gold standard.
We saw what happened withFranklin Roosevelt.
We saw that you know theanti-hoarding or whatever you
want to call that.
You had to turn the gold in andthe gold flows through the
central bank to the Bank ofInternational Settlements and
there's a whole workup on thatand I'm sure you know that
history.
So they expanded the moneysupply and then we're
technically on a gold standardafter Bretton Woods in 44.

(51:25):
We're technically there on agold standard.
The dollar is still strongsomewhat.
You can save it.
We start debasing the currencyin 65, taking the silver out of
the coinage.
The world takes notice, as youmentioned earlier.
You know De Gaulle sends theships over to pick up the gold.
Was that 67, kevin?
When they were realizing thatwas like the height of the
Vietnam War.
They sent the.

(51:46):
De Gaulle sent his warshipsover to pick up the gold,
repatriate those dollars.
I have a mixed mind on ifthere's a political movement in
this country to go back on agold standard do something like
that, do we also have to facesome sort of oh you can't own it
, like we have to reverse thatbecause they have to control the

(52:07):
gold supply or have to control?
We don't have the freedom thatwe were handed back in 1974,
which gives the average personto be your own bank, and you
talk about that in private money, and it's that to me.
I mean, we have the option todo that outside of the fiat
system.
Is there a way?
Is that going to come throughthe states?

(52:27):
They make that more legitimateif we do have a political
movement to take us there,because if the CBDC, that's like
on one side and a return to thegold standard on a completely
on the other side, I don't seethem being together.
Do you have thoughts on that?

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Well, first off is, I believe in the bimetal system
as long as the free marketdetermines the valuations.
The problem historically hasbeen we've said you know, it's
12 to 1 or 16 to 1 or whatever.
And we said this is how muchgold is worth, how much silver
is worth.
And when you do that you runinto Gresham's Law.
When the market determines thatgold is worth more than the
silver, then people will hoardthe gold and they will spend the

(53:04):
silver.
That's Gresham's Law Bad moneydrives out good.
When you have that will spendthe fiat currency and they'll
hoard the gold and the silver,which is what led to that
unconstitutional taking in 1933,where we're going to take it at

(53:25):
$20 and 70 some cents an ounceor what 20 something an ounce,
and then market up to $35 anounce within a year or two.
And all of a sudden was wait aminute, did you?
You just stole that from me andtold me it was only worth 20
bucks, and then two years lateryou set the price globally at
$35.
Did you just not steal?
You know, in a deflationarydepression, you just stole a

(53:49):
huge percentage of my wealth andtook it for the government.
Yeah, and?
And people accepted that.
The courts went along becauseRoosevelt threatened to pack
them.
The courts also went alongbecause we were in a
deflationary period where peoplewere just desperate for
anything to be able to buysomething with and they thought
it was an answer to inflation.

(54:10):
But I think we need a bimetalstandard, as long as it's a free
market driven.
So what is a shirt worth atMacy's?
Well, it's worth what the buyerand seller agreed that it's
worth, right, and so you go inand buy and if they're not
selling they'll lower the pricetill they do sell.
And then maybe it shows up atTJ Maxx because they've

(54:33):
massively lowered the pricebecause it didn't sell.
I think that money shouldliterally move with the price of
goods and services, the abilityto where you can buy something.
You mentioned silver pre-1965and 1964 quarter, between a dime
and a quarter.
From the history of theautomobile till today, a gallon

(54:55):
of gasoline costs between 10 and25 cents and you say, well,
that's crazy, kevin, you know Isee it at $3 and 350.
No, it's between 10 and 25cents.
If you take the silver contentof that dime and a quarter, it
fluctuates, but it fluctuates inthat fairly narrow band.
And today, you know, the silvercontent of a dime is a little

(55:16):
less than a gallon of gas andthe silver content of a quarter
is substantially more than agallon of gas.
So if we have the ability tohave a state that can protect
against the taking the greattaking of 1933, and we have a
new great taking now David Webbis a friend of mine, has written
about and book the great taking.
But the Great Taking of 1933was people are hoarding their

(55:40):
gold and therefore we're goingto confiscate it.
By order of the United Statesgovernment.
You have to turn in all yourgold, gold certificates, gold
bonds, gold, anything associated.
You know who didn't have toturn their in Person in.
That order did not include astate.
They couldn't order a state toturn in their gold.
They don't have theconstitutional authority and a

(56:01):
state has a constitutional rightto make nothing other than gold
and silver.
Legal tender, article 1,section 10.
Nothing other.
Which court rulings lane countyversus oregon, or bronson
versus rhodes, or briscoe versusbank of kentucky, series of
court orders have said no, no.
If.
If a state can make nothingother than gold and silver coin,
then by definition a state canmake gold and silver coin.

(56:25):
That power is reserved to themand it is not abrogated by the
federal government in any waywhatsoever.
So what if a state decides thatwe're going to make gold and
silver coin?
Well, state can't coin money.
It's very plain.
A state cannot coin money.
So how do we do this?
State can't coin money.
It's very plain.
A state cannot coin money.
So how do we do this If wecan't make gold and silver coin

(56:46):
and the federal government's notproducing gold and silver coin
at actual face value?
They're producing it at afacade, a false value.
So you know, $20 gold pieceswere $2,650 just in gold content
alone.
Today, american Eagle, you knowone ounce of gold.
So how do we fix that?
Well, several Supreme Courtrulings Lane County v Oregon
says if a state insists thatgold and silver be used, there's

(57:11):
no court, there's no Congress,no anyone that can abrogate
their authority under theConstitution to do that.
So what can they use?
Well, if they can't use goldand silver coin because there
aren't any, then they can usegold and silver.
Bullion says it plain.
In the court ruling bronsonversus rhodes there is an
agreement between two parties,bronson and rhodes.
One loaned the other money oror did some work for the other

(57:32):
and they had to be payable ingold coins.
And by the time that court caserolled around 1868, there were
greenbacks out there and theysaid this note is legal tender
for all debts, public andprivate, I will pay you in paper
.
And the receiving end, bronson,said I don't want paper, I want
gold.
Well, I can't pay you.
I don't have any gold coins.

(57:53):
There aren't any around.
They outlawed foreign coins andpeople hoarded them.
They didn't want to turn themin because the coinage act, I
think it in 1857, said that youhave to turn in your Spanish
coins and we'll melt them downand give you American coins.
And people said well, what ifthey don't give me as much gold
as I give them?
I'm not doing that.
So they hoarded it, put it in ashoebox, put it, you know,

(58:15):
stored it in the closet, buriedit in the ground, whatever, in
order to avoid giving them theirgold coins.
So there are no gold coins, Ican't pay you back, but I can
pay you back in greenbacks,legal tender for all debts,
public and private.
The court ruled in a very plainruling.
It said look, you agreed to payback in gold or silver.
You can't pay back in coins.
Therefore, you can pay it backin bullion.

(58:36):
What is a coin other than agovernment stamp as to weight
and purity of a certain amountof precious metal?
Is the value because thegovernment stamped it or is the
value because of the preciousmetal?
It is incontrovertibly true fornow and for always, and this
court is simply stating thetruth, that the value is bullion

(58:57):
and therefore we order thatRhodes pay Bronson in bullion.
Well, when you apply thosethings together and you say,
well, a state can make nothingother than gold and silver coin.
Based on those rulings, a statecan make nothing other than
gold and silver coin.
Based on those rulings, a statecan make gold and silver
bullion legal tender.
The problem is is it's notreally easy to use?
I carry my gold coin and I goand buy a cup of coffee at the
coffee shop.
I'm going to shave off a fewflecks and weigh it out.

(59:19):
Nobody's going to do that.
It's not functional currency.
In fact, the IRS looks at agold coin and says it's not a
currency at all.
It's a collectible and we willtax it as a collectible.
But what if a state makes itlegal tender, as they have a
right to do, and they make it inthe form of bullion and then
you make an electronic transfercapability with a shared,
understood ledger it could beblockchain or it could just be

(59:43):
the state itself establishing aledger and you have an account
at the state state and you haveso many ounces of gold and so
many ounces of silver and youwant to walk into a merchant and
you plop down a debit card nota credit card, a debit card,
meaning you've got actual goldand silver that the state agrees
that you have and they transferit from me to you, tony, or to
you, mr Anderson.

(01:00:04):
We make an agreement.
I like to buy from you a shirtand I will pay you in fraction.
Let's say, one one-thousandthof an ounce of gold, which is
$2.70 approximately, or $10,000,one one-hundredth of an ounce
$27.
I'll pay for your shirt and Iwill transfer it to you in the

(01:00:25):
form of gold and it will be onthe agreed-upon ledger taken
from my account.
How is that any different thanwriting a check or using a debit
card with fiat currency?
The only difference is theunderlying asset is not a
fiction of the United Statesgovernment.
It is a very real thing.
It's gold or silver and wecould operate an economy that

(01:00:47):
way and if a state does thisunder their Article 1, section
10 authority.
I believe that we have anargument that that gold or
silver should not be taxed forits capital gain, because there
is no capital gain, it is onlyinflation.
And guess what?
We have an incoming presidentwho has agreed with me on this
and said I think it's immoral totax the inflation inherent in

(01:01:08):
capital assets.
Capital gains should be indexedto inflation.
All gains of gold and silverare inflation by definition all
of them, if gold and silver ismoney.
Therefore, I think we have anopportunity for a state with
very simple legislation tocreate a bullion depository,
like Texas has, or use a Brinksfault in some states, or it
could be in the statetreasurer's office.

(01:01:30):
They could hold and keep trackof gold and silver they have to
have, it has to be audited, hasto be real, can't be
hypothecated, can't be loanedout, can't be tracked, all of
those things.
And we could have an exchangesystem and you could show up and
you can say I want to take mygold out.
I've left it in the system longenough, I want to have it in my
house, I want to hold it and Iwant to feel it like you can

(01:01:51):
with a bank.
Now you can show up and getyour dollars out of a bank
account, the difference beingyou can't take everybody can't
take all their dollars out ofthe banking system because there
aren't enough dollars to paythem.
That's why we have fdicinsurance.
There are not enough dollars inthat bank vault to meet every.
Frankly, I used to have a jokeI started a startup company and

(01:02:13):
we need to raise millions ofdollars and we my business
partner jokingly said hey, let'sjust knock over the first bank
at carmel and take the money.
And it's like, yeah, that fiftythousand dollars they hold in
their vault will go a long waytowards our needs here.
They just don't have enoughmoney in there.
But this, if it's actual goldand silver and it's really truly

(01:02:35):
held, never loaned out, neverhypothecated, and audited and
regularly inspected, would be asuperior monetary system.
That would beat central bankdigital currency.
It would defeat the Great Rescurrency.
It would defeat the great reset.
It would stop them trackingeverything that we do and the
state would not give theinformation over to the federal
government without a actualcourt order.
Say, well, we'll show you thetransactions and it needs to be

(01:02:59):
regularly audited and overseen.
And will it break down anddeteriorate All things do.
At some point 100 years fromnow, maybe 30 years from now, it
might break down and somethinghappens.
But at least it would give us ashort-term solution to a
long-term problem.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
I think that's the only way out is innovation and
decentralization.
More centralization is notgoing to work.
We've just seen that over andover again fail.
I mean that's how you get $36trillion in debt you mentioned
earlier.
I mean the year 2000,.
I was my first solid year inthe army and I was over in the
Balkans for Mr Clinton's war andthe debt of the US was $5

(01:03:41):
trillion, as you mentionedearlier.
And look at the acceleratingrate again unsustainable.
And we're not going to get outof this with more fiat currency.
The term from Jerome Powellthat inflation is transitory,
I'm like no, the dollar is.
The dollar is transitory.
At this point, the averagelifespan of a fiat currency is
26 years.
We've doubled that.
But what next?

(01:04:02):
And the only reason we have isbecause of money velocity and
things that you know.
I mean, I'm not an economistbut I can look and see.
Well, that's because it's beingused.
It's like Tinkerbell If youdon't clap she dies, and that's
why we still have the dollar.
I agreed with your synopsis inthe book on the state
depositories and other things.
I'm I'm always skeptical ofstates creating something.

(01:04:23):
I like the private sector doingit and that you know, as we
close out.
I want to have you back onbecause we didn't even cover.
I mean, you got so much insight.
I'd like maybe we can do a parttwo of this later.
I don't want to keep you toomuch longer, but you know you
mentioned Bitcoin earlier, doyou think that?
And I've been in Bitcoin since2016.
I had some of the first BitcoinATMs.
I'm in the gold and silverbusiness primarily.

(01:04:44):
That's what I do, that's mylove.
But I added Bitcoin and I doaccept Bitcoin and some
innovative things, like we don'tcharge fees for Bitcoin when
you use it to buy gold andsilver with me.
Well, I'm the only broker inthe US that does that, because
it's kind of symbiotic.
I can put it back out on theledger or I can sell it.
I see what's happening with youknow, I was in Nashville at the

(01:05:04):
Bitcoin conference when Trumpspoke and said that he was going
to make a strategic Bitcoinreserve, or at least hinted at
that.
There's a lot of push for thatand the Bitcoin maximalist
people who aren't really fans ofgold, which I don't understand
a lot of the Bitcoin maximalistsaren't fans of gold.
They think this is going tokick off.
Some sort of game theory isgoing to kick off some sort of

(01:05:28):
game theory, and I agree in someways that it's going to create.
If that happens, it will createa, a scramble for other nations
to put it on their balancesheets.
Do you see bitcoincomplementing gold, uh, in this,
in the digital era, or is it?
Is this something that's goingto be a fad?

Speaker 3 (01:05:39):
well, let's talk about bitcoin and why I think
it's valuable.
I think it's valuable for threereasons.
One One it's valuable becauseit's limited.
If it were limitless, it wouldnot have value.
If you could mine forever andalways and it didn't become
increasingly difficult to mineyou just mine anything it would
have no value.

(01:06:00):
It's the fact that it's limited.
The second value is the privacyand the idea that you can have
anonymity.
And the third value is theshared ledger the ability for
everybody to recognize and saythis is real.
This is a real thing and ifeverybody can see it, like I
said earlier, I'd be a fan ofBitcoin for the monetary

(01:06:22):
solution, and it may be at theprivate level, but it cannot be
at the state level under theexisting constitution.
It could be at the federal level.
Federal government could go ona Bitcoin standard if they
wanted to, as an act of Congress, because that's coining money,
and they could say this is whatwe coin as money.
It's not what the foundersintended.
They intended gold and silverexclusively, but I would say it

(01:06:45):
would be far better than FederalReserve, you know, with
limitless production of money.
I mean.
Jerome Powell himself also saidon 60 Minutes we're on an
unsustainable fiscal path.
As long as the Federal Reserveis required to buy US Treasury
bonds to keep the governmentafloat and to keep the money

(01:07:05):
supply valuable, they willcontinue to buy them with their
magic checkbook, creating moneyout of nothing.
In fact, that's another 60Minutes where Jerome Powell and
Ben Bernanke and Neil Kashkariwere all saying we print money
digitally and there's no end toour ability to do that.
So I like Bitcoin and I thinkit's useful.

(01:07:28):
The reason that I think thestate and it can be
decentralized in that you canhave 50 states doing this is so
important is they can confiscateyour Bitcoin.
They can outlaw your Bitcoin.
Now, public outcry would beenormous if they did it, but
there was an enormous publicoutcry when they took the gold
away.
You can see Norman versusBaltimore and Ohio Railway and

(01:07:51):
see all of those arguments.
There was an enormous outcry.
You cannot ultimately defendBitcoin legally if the federal
government wants to target youor use it or demand that your
privacy be revoked from it ordemand that you turn it in and
exchange it for central bankdigital currency and they and

(01:08:12):
they co-opt it.
So decentralized money is great.
My solution is constitutional.
Let's let the states do this asan option, not as a mandate.
So people who don't like itdon't use it, you don have to.
But give the rest of us whowant the option to transact in
gold and silver and if my stateis doing a bad job with it, I

(01:08:33):
might just go to Oklahoma anduse their version of it and
they'll be interoperable, justlike our toll tag is
interoperable.
If I drive from Dallas-FortWorth to Oklahoma City and go up
I-35 and hit their tollway, Ican use my Texas toll tag and
they just exchange.
Everything goes back becauseit's all ultimately based on

(01:08:54):
gold and silver.
I do want the ability to take itout if I want to and physically
hold it and see it and put itback if I want to.
I don't want them controllingevery aspect of it, but I don't
want capital gains tax on it andI don't.
And I want Ken Paxton, my stateattorney general, prepared to
defend me if the federalgovernment tries to interfere

(01:09:15):
with this state.
Constitutional provision,article one, section 10,.
All of this is explained in thebook pirate money, which you
can get at pirate money bookcomor you can get it at Amazon,
which I don't mind.
If you buy it at Amazon,piratemoneybookcom, you buy in
bulk.
It'll link you to Amazon,partly because the system is so
messed up in delivery, becauseour economy is so tightly

(01:09:38):
controlled that I'm not able tosend a book effectively and
deliver it effectively at a lowenough price to compete with
Amazon.
Nevertheless, I think thestate-based money should be an
important part of the answer,and I think private money and
the founders had private moneyBanks issued their own currency.
They weren't restricted fromdoing that, and if you want to

(01:10:01):
use Bitcoin, I think you should.
I want the speed oftransactions to be smooth and
easy.
I don't want the governmentinterfering with it.
I like Bitcoin.
I wish that I'd been on theselling end of the two Papa
John's pizzas, or whoever it wasthat sold those pizzas for
10,000 Bitcoin.
Man, I would have sold twomedium pizzas for that.
I would be a net acquirer ofBitcoin relative to pizza in

(01:10:25):
that instance.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Well, I'm glad you're very nuanced on that as well as
I am.
I'm just looking for othersolutions outside of the system
that we currently have, becausewe see the failures of the
cracks in it and what it creates, and it is truly evil A fiat
currency.
It robs people of their futures, of their creativity, and the
more you dig into it, just theuglier it gets.
So I'm glad that you're outthere doing what you do.
I so enjoyed talking with youtoday.

(01:10:49):
I want to make sure Mr Andersondoesn't have anything else for
you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
No, just again.
Kevin, thank you for joiningthe show today and thank you for
taking the mantle on this issue.
I encourage people to buy thebook and read it.
It's really great pirate money.
I have a litany of otheroddball questions that I'll
spare you right now, but um,just God bless you and um, I
hope you keep pushing on thisissue because it's important.
So thank you, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
If I could toss in transactional goldcom, we're we.
When I we started this processin Texas, I wrote about it in my
book game plan over a decade,11 years ago, uh, and we started
on this in Texas in the 2023session with a freshman in the
House entering legislation,Everybody told us it's possible,
you'll never get it out.
It actually made it through theState Affairs Committee, which

(01:11:35):
is where conservativelegislation goes to die.
People told us they'd never getout and you know the chairman
of the committee actually likedit and he passed it on and it
went to the Calendars Committeeand actually got passed out of
that and it went to the floorand would have been voted on had
they not impeached Ken Paxton.
It was so low in the billpriority number because it was
entered the last day you couldenter legislation in the Texas

(01:11:57):
legislature, so it wasimpossible.
There's no way it actuallycould have passed in 2023.
It didn't.
So I wrote the book PirateMoney to explain it to other
people and all of a sudden Istarted getting calls from Utah
and Ohio and Kansas and Alaskaand Missouri and Florida and

(01:12:18):
Georgia and Tennessee and somany people started contacting
me and saying we read your book.
Can we do that here?
And so we actually have a teamat our own expense.
We don't make a dime off this.
I mean, I do off the book.
If you buy the book, that helpsme.
I get a little bit of moneyfrom the sale of the book, but
we're not in the gold business.
I'm not.

(01:12:38):
In Louisiana.
They said the bankers associate, you're just trying to sell
gold and make money off gold.
And I said no, no, I don't haveanything to do with that.
I think people should buy andsell gold.
I think it's important, butthat's not what we do.
Our business is the war ofideas, pirate money, radio,
economic war room and the piratemoney book.

(01:12:59):
Yeah, I might make a you know,a tiny bit off that, but it's
not funding.
I flew to Baton Rouge at my ownnickel.
I'd have to sell an awful lotof books to cover the two days
I'm spending in Baton Rouge withhotels, airfare and everything
else.
No, we're here to save Americaand now we have 30 states that
have contacted us and weprobably have two dozen that

(01:13:19):
will enter legislation thissession.
This year.
I think we've got a legitimateshot to get it passed in Florida
and Texas.
Both Utah did a study on this.
Marla Oaks, the treasurer did astudy over the summer.
I participated.
They've written and publishedthe study that had a former vice
chairman of the Federal Reserveas part of the study, the head

(01:13:39):
of the Utah Bankers Association,somebody from the World Gold
Council, a vice president fromCitigroup and they all concluded
, yes, this can be done, a statecan do this and yes, it would
work.
And we have a study in Oklahoma, a study in Florida.
I believe we are on the cusp ofa revolution here and you'll
wake up one day in 2025 andyou'll say, oh my gosh, a state

(01:14:01):
passed that.
Now you see the articles.
Texas introduces legislation.
Later this year, I believeyou'll see states passing this
legislation.
Catherine Austin Fitz, youmentioned earlier, had dinner
with her and a state senator andthe treasurer in Tennessee
Beautiful steakhouse.
We talked about this.
It can be done in your state,every state can do this and it

(01:14:25):
is the solution for the greatreset in Central Bank digital
currency.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Kevin, thank you again.
I want to have you back, ifthat's okay.
We still have lots to talkabout.
I like the way your mind worksand what you focus on.
It's a breath of fresh air in asea of fake and talk to
somebody real.
So I appreciate it again.
And yeah, just folks go out andbuy pirate money and support

(01:14:50):
Kevin and all that he's doing,and there's some great
information in there.
I definitely benefited fromreading it.
So we will try to have Kevinback on.
But again, appreciate you.
Was it pirate money book dotcom?

Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
Pirate money book dot com is where you can do a pay
it forward, where we give awaybooks and you can read about the
book, and it has a link toamazon.
But also economicwarroomcom, uh, which is where we do our
weekly blaze television show andyou can sign up for our social
media and sign up to receivebattle plans and so forth.
And then piratemoneyradiocom,uh, where we have our weekly

(01:15:24):
american family radio program.
So I'd love it if people wouldfollow me on.
I just joined True Social.
On Sunday we had threefollowers.
I just looked before we jumpedon here.
We have a thousand eightyfollowers.
Something's happening thatpeople are just jumping on that
True Social is at Economic WarRoom, twitter's at Economic War

(01:15:44):
Room, facebook's at Economic WarRoom, twitter's at Economic War
Room, facebook's at EconomicWar Room.
And then we have on X notTwitter X also at Pirate Money
Radio or Pirate Money X, atPirate Money Radio or Pirate
Money X.
So anyway, I hope your viewersand listeners will follow us.
I'd love to keep you all intune.

(01:16:05):
We put out some great contentand this is just one of many
great projects we have.

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
Well, I hope they'll follow you too.
And yeah, folks follow usParatroother with Mr Anderson.
Again, mr Anderson, thanks forbeing here Appreciate you having
me.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
It was a pleasure.
Thank you, Kevin.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
And give us a review on Wise Wolf channel for Wise
Wolf Golden Crypto Show.
We're going to put a lot newshows up this year and, uh,
great guests like kevin.
So again, thanks for forjoining everybody in a world of
bulls and bears.
Be the wolf.
End of transmission.