June 5, 2025 • 44 mins
Ask Nigel Rawlins a question or send feedback, click the link to text me.
In this quietly remarkable episode, Laurie Smale—former dropout, junkyard worker, communication mentor, and now digital storyteller at 79—joins host Nigel Rawlins for a conversation that redefines what it means to start over late in life.
Laurie shares how he walked away from school at 13 after brutal treatment by a maths teacher and began working in a junkyard under the guidance of Old Bill, his first mentor. Decades later, he returned to education, graduating with honours at 37, and most recently, launching his Magic Minutes YouTube series at 78 with the support of digital mentor Sue Ellson.
From sleeping beside a furnace to building a personal brand online, Laurie’s journey illustrates how fear, when faced with humility and support, can be transmuted into wisdom and legacy. This episode is both a tribute to lived experience and a roadmap for anyone looking to pivot, adapt, and thrive.
Key Themes
- Confronting lifelong fear and self-doubt with small, intentional steps
- Reinvention in later life using digital tools and social media
- The enduring value of mentorship and human connection
- Lifelong learning as a mindset—not a timeline
- Legacy, storytelling, and the quiet power of older voices in business
Mentions
People & Mentors:
Sue Ellson (LinkedIn expert) https://sueellson.com/
Old Bill Menzies (junkyard mentor)
Dave Stokes (audio producer) https://www.linkedin.com/in/dave-stokes/
Systems & References:
Magic Minutes video series https://www.youtube.com/@lauriesmale
National Speakers Association https://www.professionalspeakers.org.au/
Grandma Moses (artist & reinvention symbol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandma_Moses
Contact
Explore Laurie’s books, Magic Minutes videos, and speaking work at lauriesmale.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nigel Rawlins (00:00):
Welcome to the Wisepreneurs Podcast, a place
where we share stories ofstarting over no matter where
you are in life.
Today I'm thrilled to introduceLaurie Smale, a 79-year-old who
makes you wonder if there'sanything he can't do.
Picture this, a kid working in ajunkyard at 13, a university
grad at 37, and now a YouTubestoryteller lighting up screens.
(00:23):
Lori's life isn't a straightline.
It's a beautiful, messy map ofcourage and curiosity.
With a little help from mentorsand a lot of grit, he's turned
fears into triumph.
Fear is fear.
It doesn't matter if you're 78or 18, he says, if you've ever
wondered what's next for you,Lori's story might just spark an
answer.
(00:43):
Come join us on Wisepreneurs tohear how he did it and maybe
find your own next step.
Laurie, welcome to theWisepreneurs podcast.
Can you tell us something aboutyourself and where you're from?
Laurie Smale (00:54):
Well, I was born in a little place called Donald
about four and a half hoursdrive from Melbourne, a long way
away.
And, I was living there becausemy dad had TB.
And, sadly, we thought that theweather had something to do with
ameliorating diseases like that,but it didn't.
(01:16):
And he died when I was three.
So I've never really known afather's, a father's love, a
father figure in my life, so Isubstituted other people as
father figures, and they'rethese key mentors that have made
a difference to me as I've, asI've traveled along.
One of the first ones was oldBill Menzies in the junkyard.
(01:38):
Uh, I, I still, I still worshipthat man.
He was just such a beautifulhuman being and look, with my
three other brothers, we battledalong and I dunno what happened,
but somewhere along the way whenI was a little boy, I, I, I just
didn't get maths and I sort ofbecame so frightened of it.
(02:00):
It's actually got a technicalname nowadays, but it, it
tormented me for the next 30years of my life.
That was one of the reasons whyI found myself working at manual
jobs.
Later on in life, computers wereequated with this math fear.
Hence why I'm starting thisexciting new journey at 79 to
(02:22):
face these fears.
And, and deal with them.
I did deal with them earlier,but I didn't know that the
computers would rear their uglyhead and become this math thing
again.
I was behind the eight ballwhen, when they came out.
Nigel Rawlins (02:35):
So, you left school at 13, so what did you go
and do?
Laurie Smale (02:41):
Well, I ran away from school at 13.
I didn't leave school.
I, I ran, uh, I, I was, I wasbelted.
I was belted by the mathsteacher and humiliated every
day, and I just couldn't takeanymore.
So that's when I went to work atthe junk yard because I, Old
Bill didn't do that to me.
He taught me all about, allabout antiques and scrap metals,
(03:05):
and I still have that knowledgetoday.
I can walk into an antique shopand I'm knowledgeable about
things like that.
The Antique Road show.
I love it.
And I found myself working in a,an Italian glass factory at
Frankston, the Murano MosaicTile Factory, and these were the
(03:26):
days of the Dago and I wasfrightened.
They were looked down upon by usAussies, and I was led to
believe, not from my mum by theway, but just the general
population that they were dirty,they ate rats, all this sort of
stuff.
And I found that they werewonderful, warm people and they
(03:48):
ate things that I never dreamedof off, and I wanted to be like
them.
And I worked as this little boy,13-year-old.
Seven days a week.
I lived in that factory.
I slept beside the furnace.
It was nice and warm.
They fed me with lasagna and allsorts of wonderful things.
(04:08):
I lived like a king, so much sothat I wanted to be an Italian.
I.
I wanted to learn theirlanguage, and I've spent the
rest of my life learning it, andfinally ended up going to
university when I was 37 andmajoring with honors, I might
add.
(04:30):
But that school thing took medecades to have the courage to
take that first step.
I was uneducated.
I'd never read a book in my lifeuntil I was twenty-two and I was
quite proud of it.
How sad is that?
Nigel Rawlins (04:47):
Now that's an interesting point'cause I wanna
come back to that.
Obviously you had a thirst or ahunger for learning and, and
something motivated you.
But let's go back to thejunkyard, Old Bill.
Now, it's interesting, I, I wasa teacher and look a, it was
basically what they were tryingto teach you was arithmetic in
(05:09):
those days.
And it was by rote, it wasshoved down your throat and,
I'll be honest, I think mostpeople run a mile than try and
do basic arithmetic.
You try and give some change atthe supermarket and they dunno
what to do with the the coins.
They can't figure it out.
And, and so arithmetic is stilla problem today, but I remember
(05:32):
when I was teaching in a primaryschool, this was many, many
years ago, it would've been over40 years ago in a little country
town called Moonambel.
Across the road, there was awoodyard and the old guys who
worked in there were in theirseventies.
They were lean, leathery andwise to the world, and it just
(05:53):
sounds like old Bill.
These guys.
Laurie Smale (05:55):
just.
Nigel Rawlins (05:55):
They were smart, they were intelligent.
They didn't have schooling, butthey were knowledgeable and I
think, I think that's one of theissues today that we
underestimate people.
It doesn't matter if theyhaven't been to university,
they're still wise and they canpass something on and if we
overlook them, yeah.
Okay.
So.
Basically what you found is, isthat you were mentored.
(06:17):
I would suggest that you werementored when you were in the
Italian factory, but what I wastrying to think about, you've
gone from Donald to Frankston,that's a long distance away from
home.
So how did you end up inFrankston?
Laurie Smale (06:30):
Well, it, it was all, all because of necessity.
There was my mum, twenty,twenty-two or something with
three kids under four and weended up in a little place
called Moe.
Now Moe is near Yallourn or bigcoal mines were and the power
station.
(06:51):
And we lived in a governmenthouse.
We lived there for a year.
And then Mr.
Kessel one day loaded us on theback of his truck, just like
those jalopies you see in thedust Bowl of America with the,
those people that fleed all thedust and the poverty.
And we made our way to Seaford,which is next to Frankston, and
(07:13):
that's pretty well where I grewup.
That's where the junkyard was,sort of between Seaford and
Frankston, and it was stillwilderness.
I go there now and I don't, youknow, you've ever gone back to a
place when you were a little boyand you, you're lost.
You think it's, it's not thesame.
Well, that's what Seaford it istoday.
It's all built up.
But there were rabbit snakes andfoxes, literally thousands of
(07:35):
swans in the wetlands where welived, we called it the swamp.
But you don't do that nowadays.
You call it the wetlands.
Thank you.
A lot of money to buy a housethere now, but not when we went
there.
And, uh, there was my mum and,and we had no electricity.
No water.
The, the'Night Man' came, wecall him the dunny man, and um,
(07:56):
it was really something straightout of the 1850s, no
electricity.
So we had the old, um, kerosenelamp and when the Tilley lamp
came out, you pumped.
It was just unbelievable, thisbright light.
So I've got lots of interestingmemories.
But all the while I had a lot ofenthusiasm for life, but I was
(08:20):
just a, a, a wild urchin who,uh, had a insatiable cur
curiosity for the world aroundme, and I've never lost that.
Um, but I ended up beinguneducated really, until I was
(08:42):
30 years old.
Nigel Rawlins (08:44):
Well, when you say uneducated, do you mean
school educated or universityeducated?
Laurie Smale (08:49):
School education, which which became a big fear
for me.
However, I did learn a lot aboutlife.
I learned the art of handlingpeople by listening to people
like Old Bill Menzies, listeningto people like Sandy in the
Concrete Gang when I worked forthe Chelsea Council, because I
didn't think I had a story toshare.
(09:10):
So I'd listen to these guys forhours.
And I soak in their worldlywisdom, which you can't get at a
university.
And, uh, I didn't realize howenriched I was becoming.
And I draw on this in my rolenow as being a mentor to other
people who spend their livesrunning from their fears,
(09:33):
whatever they are.
I sort'em out.
I say, do you want to be likeme?
Do you wanna, because help'saround the corner.
It really is.
But if you're on the run, youdon't see that.
Nigel Rawlins (09:45):
Now it's interesting.
We were introduced by.
Sue Ellson, she was the guest onthe podcast, would you say that
she's mentored you into this newpart of your life that you're
doing?
So tell me a bit about that.
Laurie Smale (09:59):
She, she was a female, Bill Menzies, and he was
a wonderful, wonderful person inmy life as indeed the Italians
and other figures that have,that have passed my way.
And I've soaked in old Sandy onthe concrete gang, and Sue has
now part of that pantheon ofwonderful, wonderful people that
(10:19):
mean a lot to me.
Nigel Rawlins (10:20):
So tell me, have you not been working for a few
years or you've been working orsuddenly at 79, you've decided
I've got more to add.
Laurie Smale (10:28):
I, I never dreamed that I would be sitting here
with you, Nigel, uh, two yearsago.
I thought I'd miss the boat asfar as computers.
They'd tormented me for years.
I was a notable, as you recall,and renowned and respected
(10:49):
business person in thecommunication field, in the
field of helping other peoplebelieve in themselves and
communicate with confidence.
But I was still living in aworld I thought I'd get away, I
could get away without having todeal with computers because it
wasn't really a computer worldeven in the eighties.
(11:10):
We could still use emails.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll use that.
You'd do the mail post out,you'd send out thousands of
letters and you'd do thousandsof phone calls and you'd go and
meet people and that, but thenall of a sudden, almost
overnight, I was redundant andall these things that I've got
(11:31):
to share.
They'd had their day.
I had no outlet.
Everyone was talking aboutsocial media and this, that, and
the other, and it overwhelmedme.
It scared me.
And for 15 years, I, I began torealize that I had my day.
And then I heard about a personcalled Grandma Moses.
(11:54):
I just happened to hear abouther, 78 she was.
And, someone discovered her.
The truth was she'd beenpainting all her life, dabbling
in her own little way.
Someone saw her, liked what shedid.
She even has some of herpaintings now having hanging in
the White House.
She's a an American icon,Grandma Moses.
(12:16):
She lived to a hundred, stillpainting.
I thought, wow, if she can doit, I'm gonna ask for help.
And there I was at 78 when mostpeople at 78 have got their feet
up in their chair with their ruground them, and it was all
downhill from here, not me,because fear is fear.
Doesn't matter whether you're 78or 18, if you are scared of
(12:39):
something, you've gotta seekhelp, and I help people who have
got some sort of fear aboutsomething, get help.
And lots of times I can be thehelp.
I can throw the switch.
So that from one day to thenext, they're on the new path.
And that's what happened to mewith Sue.
I thought I'd write a book, I'vewritten three books, all about
(12:59):
helping yourself communicatewith confidence.
Believe in yourself.
Know, you've got a story totell.
Know, you're not an empty vesseland bad luck for you'cause
that's what life dished up foryou.
No, we've all got a wealth ofexperience to share.
Our story is that wealth ofexperience, our personal
stories.
How many people tell me, oh, Iwish I could be like you, you
(13:23):
live such an interesting life.
I haven't, it's been prettymundane and I stopped them
there.
And I said, now listen, you'vegot a very interesting life I've
been listening to over thischat.
And, believe me, your story's mystory.
Nigel Rawlins (13:40):
They haven't been heard have they?
they So how did you come acrossSue?
Laurie Smale (13:45):
So I wrote my books, and then I thought, I'm
good at telling stories.
Oh, by the way, don't beashamed.
I tell people, of saying I'mgood at something, others will
put you down.
So I say I'm good at tellingstories, which I had been.
Why don't I, why don't I put mybook, Finding Me, Finding You,
that's the title of it.
(14:06):
Before you can help someone elsefind themselves, you've gotta
find yourself first.
That's one of my mottos.
Get the other person rightfirst.
So I did, I sought out a man bythe name of Dave Stokes, made a
little sound studio, sought outsome help with a techo guy to
set it up so I would soundprofessional.
I.
And I did, and I do soundprofessional and I share this
(14:30):
lovely, lovely book ofinspirations, other people's
stories, my story to help themcast off fears and start walking
tall, looking the world in theeye.
And when I finished that, Ithought, well, I'm probably
ready for this next step.
I said, do you happen to knowsomeone that could help me a
(14:53):
little bit with LinkedIn?
He said, I know just the person.
Now, that little, that littlequestion that asking for help
changed my life.
So I rang up Sue.
It was funny after about twosessions, she said, to be quite
honest, I didn't know what hitme.
She said, you were such a breathof fresh air.
She said, and and the age youare and, and we've been on this
(15:17):
journey, the journey ofchanging.
Talk about educating Rita.
This was educating Laurie.
I didn't even know what ahashtag was.
I can remember saying whatexactly is a hashtag.
I'm 78, mind you.
And I've gone from there in oneyear to being here with you, a
respected, professionalpodcaster, respecting me as one
(15:39):
of your interviewees.
I manage my own website.
I've got my own Magic Minutes,which thousands now watch, and,
I'm going places in this newworld.
Nigel Rawlins (15:51):
And it's fascinating because what's
obviously gone through yourcareer is that you've come
across the right people to helpyou stay on track and move
forward, and you reached, andobviously with Sue, that's
through a network.
And I should say that I cameacross you more than 30 years
ago when I first quit teachingand joined the national
(16:14):
speakers.
One of our other, uh, guestswho's been on the podcast,
Meredith Fuller, suggest I getout and network.
And in those days, the only wayto network is you had to
physically go places.
You, you know, you can't justemail or, or like somebody on
LinkedIn.
And that's where I came acrossyou.
And I realized in those daysthat, uh.
(16:35):
And you know, I do remember theyused to say you had to get on
the phone, you had to getmeetings, you had to write
letters, you had to really work.
But I was too young.
I was also not young.
I wasn't young.
I was too naive to understandhow it worked.
I mean, years later I do, but itshifted.
But networking was reallyimportant.
Who do you know and who do youknow?
And can you ask for help?
(16:56):
Which is what you've just toldus that you did.
Okay, so let's move on a littlebit.
You've had a varied career.
Who would you say you are todaythen?
Laurie Smale (17:05):
Who am I today?
I'm, uh, I'm a wealth of worldlyexperience who can humbly share
this with others who now knowsthat many people, and we look up
to them, but they're harboringstuff that are holding them back
(17:26):
and never shed it, never cast itoff.
So I don't go up and, and, andpreach and say, Hey, listen, I
can, no, no, no, no.
I've got a, I've got a be at theright place at the right time,
and someone might just say, oh,I can't do that, or I can't do
this, and never have always beenscared of that.
(17:47):
And then I can share a story ortwo to get them thinking.
Nigel Rawlins (17:51):
Seems like old bill.
Laurie Smale (17:53):
just like old bill.
Nigel Rawlins (17:55):
He had time, didn't he?
Laurie Smale (17:57):
Yeah.
Nigel Rawlins (17:57):
I think that's the difference.
Today, I dunno if we've got thattime to hear.
Laurie Smale (18:02):
In fact what you said is lovely.
I'll take that away from thislittle chat.
I've become an Old Bill with,with young Laurie's, wide-eyed
and bushy tailed, and eager toknow about the world, and I'm
talking about 30, 40, 50 yearolds behaving like young Laurie,
when the right person's in frontof them.
Nigel Rawlins (18:23):
And it's lucky if they can come across you.
Alright, let's move on tosomething else now.
Technology.
Now, we had a bit of a, a techhiccup when we were starting
this, so, um.
Laurie Smale (18:35):
I was gonna bring that up
Nigel Rawlins (18:36):
Well, look, it happens a lot, um, in producing
this podcast, I use an onlinestudio, a virtual studio, so we
have to log into it.
We can see each other like aZoom meeting, but we've gotta
make sure the recording isworking.
So we need a mic and we need thehearing, and, and we had trouble
figuring it out, which obviouslyis an issue when you're a bit
(18:58):
older.
I'm not saying you are old, buttechnology is something you've
grasped onto, and I think withSue's help as well.
YouTube, with your Magic Minuteshow have you adopted technology
to work at 79?
Laurie Smale (19:11):
Well, I think, I think we've, we've gotta, we've
gotta run with it.
This is the world and, uh, yyoung people, when I say young
people, people under 40, that'show they communicate.
And, if we don't, we are seen asold fogies living in another
world.
And then you'll see olderpeople, some in their sixties or
(19:33):
seventies, freely, freely onsocial media, talking to the
grandkids and whatever, andwell, I wasn't part of that.
Two years ago I wasn't part ofit.
I'm gonna share something withyou now, which was, which was
something I was ashamed of.
Just two years ago before I metDave Stokes and did my book.
I reverted for a year togathering scrap metal off nature
(19:54):
strips.
I went back to the junkyard.
I said, well, at least I knowabout metal and, and I'm gonna
spend the whole year gathered.
So I gathered these heaps ofaluminum and stainless steel and
brass and gun metal and copperand all that.
And the big day came and I tookit down to the scrap yard about
five trips, and I can stillremember what I ended up with
(20:19):
after that years of work.
$928 I, no, no.
What the hell are you doing?
You've been this wonderful,knowledgeable person and changed
the lives of thousands andyou've been doing this for a
year.
(20:41):
And that's one of the reasonswhat sparked me off and said,
you're better than that.
Not looking down on people.
I put myself in that positionand, um, and so I know I'm
excited about this and, but I'lltell you now, while we were
trying to figure out all thosewires and you were getting me to
(21:01):
look at my settings and that thepanic, the panic did rear its
ugly head a little bit, but nowit never runs my life anymore.
I didn't sound frightened, didI?
When we sort.
Nigel Rawlins (21:16):
Mm, no, we did.
Laurie Smale (21:18):
And, and luckily you were a kind person and, and
stuck with me and said, yeah,okay, it took us about 15
minutes, but, but you didn't,you know, look down on me and
make a big deal
Nigel Rawlins (21:27):
No, I'm used to it now, to be honest.
Um, yeah, no, one of, one of thepeople who've been on this
podcast three times has the sameproblem every time.
You know, I, I wanna scream, butI don't, and you know.
We've got time when we're a bitolder, that's one, one of the
luxuries we, well, we dunno howmuch time we've got left, but we
(21:50):
have a different approach totime at our age.
So what do you recommend forothers?
Well, obviously what I'm, I'mnearly 70 so from the age of 60
on say, what do you recommendthey look at in terms of digital
tools and online stuff?
(22:11):
If they're not reallycomfortable with it, how do they
approach it?
Laurie Smale (22:15):
Well, the whole thing can be overwhelming.
Not can be it.
It is.
Now, we don't have to know howeverything works.
All the little binary yes nosgoing behind the billions of
little on offs with, we don'tneed to know about that.
In any little operation I'vefound there was probably four or
(22:38):
five key things to press.
And we can change our lives withthose key things to press.
And so do one thing at a timelike I do with, with with Sue, I
just do one little aspect of it.
I will watch her zoom that shesends me each day religiously
(22:59):
for 10 minutes.
So that that soaks in andreconfigures my fear with those
five or so six things to pressand I end up being able to
write, produce, and be be theparticipant in my Magic Minutes.
It all came from not trying todo everything.
(23:20):
And so I say to older folk,don't be overwhelmed, just stick
to a little thing and masterthat.
Master that first.
Baby stuff.
But no one knows that.
When they see you do it, theygo, ah, this guy's clever.
Nigel Rawlins (23:36):
They forget the little steps that come to it.
All right.
So what tech are you actuallyusing?
Laurie Smale (23:41):
tax?
Nigel Rawlins (23:42):
sorry, technical stuff or technical equipment
Laurie Smale (23:45):
Oh, technical stuff.
Oh, well, um, I've got anincredible little camera and
apparently if you look at myMagic Minutes, apparently it's
of movie quality.
Now I didn't know that.
I went to this company and Ijust said, I want a good camera.
(24:05):
Oh, well this is the one we use.
Well, apparently it's really topnotch and, um, and it only cost
me$800 and it just gives youthese beautiful movies.
So what did I do with that?
I phoned up someone to help mewith it.
And do you know, that wasn'teasy.
I, I remember I went to, um, abig department store and I went
(24:28):
to the computer department and Isaid, hey, look, I'm, I, I've
got a camera and I'm not surehow to use it.
Um, oh, well, you know, call upthe company or read this or read
that and it's all too much.
And so I looked up audio, audiotechnician.
Now I thought that they'd go inand, you know, just sort stuff
(24:50):
out.
And I just found a guy who cameall the way out.
He normally deals with largecompanies, you know, doing
movies.
And he, he liked my enthusiasmso much.
He liked my genuineness.
He could see I was, Idesperately needed help, but I
wasn't gonna waste his time.
And he set me up.
(25:11):
I paid him his professional feefor his hour.
I did about 10 hours with him.
He showed me how to use thiscamera and make my Magic
Minutes, a lovely, lovely man.
Nigel Rawlins (25:24):
So what camera is this that you're talking about?
What type was it?
Laurie Smale (25:27):
Uh, it's a Sanyo, just a little, little square
one.
Little tiny one that fits on atripod.
I've got certain things to do,but before I do a Magic Minute,
I've got an hour set up eachtime and then I've got to, to
rehearse it and which I do on atablet, which clips into the
front of my teleprompter.
(25:49):
And so I don't read it, but it'sthere so that I can be natural
and, and you know, I've gottatell a story that's got a
beginning, middle, and an endthat's captivating.
That means something that'sentertaining, that's inspiring
all in 60 seconds.
Nigel Rawlins (26:09):
And yet it takes you an hour to set it up.
Laurie Smale (26:11):
Well, it's taken me a lifetime to set it up.
Nigel Rawlins (26:14):
But even more, what do you do after you've
recorded it?
Laurie Smale (26:17):
Well then after recorded, this is all thanks to
Sue.
Then I edit it.
I download it, I upload it, Isideload it.
I do all those things that I, Ididn't even know anything about.
Two years ago I was collectingjunk and thinking that was where
Laurie was gonna end up.
Nigel Rawlins (26:36):
You'll laugh.
I'm, I'm thinking about Steptoeand Son that nobody young would
probably know.
Remember Steptoe and Son?
Laurie Smale (26:43):
Of course
Nigel Rawlins (26:44):
loved him.
Laurie Smale (26:45):
I do.
That was me.
That was me.
And so, so then I edit it, and Idid one this morning, actually.
It took me about three hours gofrom beginning to end and
pressed the YouTube button.
Nigel Rawlins (26:56):
I had a look at a few this morning.
They are very professional.
Um, so have you touched on AIyet?
Or artificial intelligence, anyof that stuff?
Laurie Smale (27:05):
No, but, uh, I picked up your enthusiasm for,
for it and, you hear all thisnegative stuff, but I think that
there'd be lots and lots of goodthings that you could do with
it.
The one thing I'm not afraid ofis that there's only one Laurie
Smale in the world.
And so even if someone copiedone of my things and duplicated
(27:31):
me, it would never be me.
It wouldn't have the soul andheart of who I am.
And so if whenever I go in frontof an audience.
That's my magic.
That's the magic I weave on anaudience, even via social media.
Nigel Rawlins (27:49):
Well, the, the main thing about AI for people
at our age,'cause one of theissues is that you can easily
trust it and just use it, say,to create social media posts or
something like that.
But the benefit of our age isthat we have got a long history
of knowledge so that when welook at the output, we can say,
that's not right.
(28:10):
That's rubbish.
We're able to evaluate it.
Whereas I think sometimes theyounger ones are just kicking
out 50 social media posts, whichthey can do with AI.
They're not necessarily readingit or making sure that it means
anything and, and that's one ofthe issues for us as older
adults or older.
I dunno what we call ourselveswhen we're older, but, you know,
(28:33):
technology
Laurie Smale (28:35):
Hmm.
Nigel Rawlins (28:35):
just something that we can use.
But I'm, I'm very pleased tohear that Sue was able to get
you tuned into it and, and, uh,we will put Sue's information in
the show notes.
Okay?
Let's go back to this.
You returned to school to earn adegree in your forties.
So one of the things I donotice, and I can hear loud and
(28:57):
clear is that you've spent alife of continuous learning.
You're still curious.
What do you suggest for otherpeople who are in their sixties
and, and you've met some whosay, well, I haven't done much
in my life, but what should theylearn?
Laurie Smale (29:11):
Well, they, they should learn that, which scares
them.
When I was 30, I didn't know, Iknew what a full stop was, but I
didn't know what a colon was ofsemicolon or a paragraph 30, 30,
mind you.
So I went and bought a littlebook.
I was in London, working on abuilding site, and I went and
(29:32):
bought a book called, You've Gota point Here, You've Got a Point
Here.
And then I bought a, boughtanother book about, Men and
Nations.
I still remember it.
I was uneducated in a schoolsense, not a worldly sense.
And I sat down overnight inthese building sites.
They let me live there if Ilooked after and stop robbers
(29:54):
pinching their materials.
And I had a little globe, alight globe, and I would read
out loud and slowly but surely Ibegan to see how to form a
sentence, sentences, one idea, aparagraph is one idea and, and
what the different punctuationmarks and that meant.
My advice would be to, to tacklethat which you are afraid of.
(30:20):
Go and buy a book.
Go and seek someone out andenroll or learn that.
And before you know it, and whenI say before you know it as the
days, as the weeks, as themonths go by.
As the years go by you then findwhat's the next step that I'm
scared of?
Because it's all about fear thatyou've been sidestepping.
(30:42):
Or avoiding all your life.
A bit like me at 78 with socialmedia.
I hit it head on, but baby stepswas what I wanted someone to
help me with.
I once had a guy help me withmaths when I was going to uni
and he just went straight in.
It was just too much.
I wanted baby steps stuff.
(31:02):
I wanted to know that if youmultiply a number, it gets
bigger and you divide it getssmaller.
That's where I wanted to be.
So there you've gotta takecontrol.
I'd tell them.
And go back and get someone tohelp you step by step, and
you'll be excited about itbecause someone's helping you.
Nigel Rawlins (31:24):
Yeah, but that's the issue, isn't it?
If, if they don't understandwhat the little steps are and
they try and give you the bigsteps, they lose you.
And this is the trouble with,you know, being too much of an
expert.
It's very difficult to explainthings to people.
But what I'm hearing isbasically throughout your life,
you've been reinventingyourself.
(31:44):
And here you are.
Laurie Smale (31:45):
Yeah.
But with the help of others.
When I first decided to get aneducation, which was a big fear,
it was another fear.
I've had these fears I'veovercome.
Just like social media was morethan the fear, it was a, it was
a nightmare, hence the Steptoeexperience.
And for some reason that thatwas supposed to help me avoid
(32:05):
it.
What a laugh.
But, it took a lot of couragefor me to go back to school to
even utter those words, and thathappened, I was in a motorbike
accident and I remember I was aMr.
Minute.
Yet, another thing I've done, Iwent from engraving to running
five stands throughout theSydney area and Canberra, being
(32:29):
the supervisor.
And I couldn't add up and theydidn't know it'cause I didn't
tell them.
In the end, it caught up with meand I had to run away again.
And I was in a motor accidenttrying to get my foot better.
It was really bad.
And I was walking down a street,I had to walk for a few hours
each day and I heard some kidsin a school room, and I remember
(32:51):
I was 37 and they're enjoyingthemselves and I looked through
the window, I can still rememberlooking through the window and
and I saw a cell, a cell on theblackboard, and the teacher and
the kids were interacting and a,and, and this bolt of shame went
(33:11):
through me.
I did not understand what theywere saying, and I was 37, and
then and there I decided I wasgonna go back to school.
And that's what I say abouthelping other people.
They say, oh, you might, if youthrow the switch, they can
change their life along the newpath from one day to the next.
(33:33):
And I did go back to school.
I bought a whole package of TimeLife books.
20 of them to read everythingthere is to know about the
world.
I thought that was the answer.
Of course, it was knowledgeableand I became pretty good at
Trivial Pursuit.
But, but, but it was a wonderfulstep along the way.
And when I went back to schooland I went to TAFE in
(33:54):
Collingwood with a, another lotof also rans like me.
That's, that's who my classmateswere.
I was 40, they were 18, My viewof where I was going was to be a
park ranger.
That's what I thought, if I gotyear 12, remember I left school
in year seven because I didn'tget that.
(34:15):
Now, how was I gonna attack year12, which I did.
Not only did I get through, butI got enough marks to get into
Melbourne Uni.
Freak out.
I took a year off.
Just to learn typing, learn, andstuff like that.
I went to Melbourne Uni a yearlater.
I made friends with four or fiveyoung people and stayed with
(34:37):
them for, for four years.
They helped me and I helped themwith life and that's where my
whole new path of being aneducated literate, confident
person, and that's when you metme at the national speakers.
Nigel Rawlins (34:52):
And so you made the shift, what, what we call
working with the hands toworking with the mind.
Here you are today.
So that's one heck of atransition, isn't it?
And that's the nature of theworld today.
We're moving away from using ourhands to using our heads.
It's a very different worldfrom, you know, when you're
(35:14):
lighting that Tilley Lantern.
And we should explain to peoplewe're talking about Australia,
'cause you live in Australia, sosome of these places are in the
state of Victoria that we'retalking about, and Melbourne
University is, is there.
You relaunched at 78
Laurie Smale (35:29):
Can't believe it.
And, and I've gotta say yes,I've been launched, launched
onto the social media.
Nigel Rawlins (35:38):
And this is the world that we live in.
And how long do you think youcan keep doing this for?
I mean, you've only juststarted.
Laurie Smale (35:46):
Yeah.
Look, it has no end.
It's like a hobby, but I'vegotta pace it.
I don't need to chase all thebusiness like I did when you met
me.
I've now had my family, I'vedone my best, you know, a lot of
room for improvement, but, youknow, I'm quite proud of the
(36:06):
effort I've made.
But I'm quite happy.
I'm quite happy to sell a fewbooks, make a difference to
people, but not be the big, uh,world renowned guru, but, but
certainly be well renowned andrespected and have something to
say.
Nigel Rawlins (36:27):
I totally agree with that.
I mean, look, I spend a lot oftime researching, writing, and I
still have a number of clients Ilook after, but I do not wanna
spend the whole day inside in anoffice.
Now I work from home now, havean office, but I can't wait
after this conversation to getout on my bike and go for an
hour, just get, get out in thebush a bit, and I can't wait to
(36:50):
get out in the garden and do afew of the jobs.
I don't wanna be like you, yousaid, I don't wanna be the
full-time guru or anything likethat, but like you, I want to do
the bit where I can help.
I.
Laurie Smale (37:01):
Oh, but if we don't help ourselves, we can't
help others.
And so we've gotta do, we'vegotta have a nice balanced life.
I used to be totally obsessedwith,'cause I always wanted to
be someone'cause I was always onthe run of, from me.
'cause I didn't think I wasworth much.
(37:22):
So I became very good atwhatever I did.
I, I was a professional bikerider at one stage in my life,
but to the detriment ofeverything else.
I slept, ate, and drank bikes.
I even had the bike in mybedroom with me and woe betide
anyone anyone if they touchedit.
(37:42):
I had a horrific accident at theVelodrome in Melbourne.
And, uh, and I never quite madeit, even though I was on that
bike a few weeks later with abroken collarbone and all that.
And I, I think it was a, a goodthing, a good lesson, that we
must not be totally obsessedwith anything.
(38:04):
We've gotta have balance.
There's other people that needour attention and our love.
My bike's got all of that andonly my bike.
Nigel Rawlins (38:19):
Laurie, it's, it's been a fascinating story.
How would you suggest othersmight like to make this shift?
Maybe they've sort of retired,they, they've got some skills
and some knowledge, but they'resort of finding life's not what
they were hoping that they,maybe they're getting a bit
bored or they want to sharesomething.
What advice would you give themto help them make this shift?
Laurie Smale (38:42):
Well, everyone has a story to tell.
Everyone.
And your story might be thatyou're pretty good at growing
roses.
It might be that you've traveledand you've, you've had some
experiences.
It might be that you come from adifferent country and you've got
(39:02):
a story behind that of how thathappened.
Everyone has a story.
Now, there are many groups ofpeople that would love you to
come and share it.
Now, if you've got a fear ofpublic speaking, pull the chair
up in front of them, couch it indifferent terms, and the fear
will go away.
(39:23):
Say, I would like to come alongone evening with a chair, pull
it up in front of your group andhave a friendly chat and share a
few of my travels, and thenyou're not public speaking and
you're sitting down in front ofthem and you introduce it as
just a friendly chat and getthem and say, please ask me
questions and make your talkwith you answering their
(39:45):
questions.
I would suggest if I knew what Ijust shared with your listeners
then, and I knew it as anearlier stage before I had the
confidence to speak, I would'veloved to have done that.
It's almost like a wonderfulinteractive question time.
Just have a little beginning anda little finish at the end of
it, thanking them and hope weall learn something from there,
(40:07):
I certainly did type thing, andshare what you do.
One of the biggest things we dowith ourselves, I'm not really
good at anything, I've neverdone anything.
What silly comments.
What a, a silly overview of yourlife, of your decades and
decades of living, and sometimesthe challenges are worth
(40:28):
sharing.
Like I shared about me with ascrap metal just two years ago.
That's a valuable story thatneeds to be told.
And I told her for the firsttime in my life on your program,
Nigel Rawlins (40:43):
And made$925.
Was it
Laurie Smale (40:46):
$928.
Nigel Rawlins (40:50):
That's, that's an amazing story.
Well, Laurie, you've had anamazing life from the sounds of
it, and you've made quite a fewshifts.
You've reinvented yourself andhere you are back, back in the
thick of it, sharing yourknowledge and all that.
Laurie Smale (41:06):
Can I just say that this is, it really is like
a rebirth.
It it, it's that exciting.
It's like a whole new career,but where I call the shots of
the pace and what I want to do,but it nonetheless, it's, that's
exactly what it is.
It's, it's a, it's a new Laurie.
(41:28):
There are generations that havenever heard of me or my stories
or what I've gotta offer, andthey say, where the hell have
you been?
Nigel Rawlins (41:35):
And I can hear the energy in it and the
excitement.
So it's, it's like you're a newyou.
Well, Lori, how are people goingto find you?
How would you like them to findyou or connect with you?
Laurie Smale (41:46):
While I'm on most platforms and the best way to
connect with me would belauriesmale.com, which would
take them to my web or simplylook up Laurie Smale Magic
Minute.
And get to know me, just throughthose Magic Minutes.
And should you need to gain frommy knowledge on my website
(42:10):
you'll see my books, the threebooks.
One is Finding Me, finding You,which really shows you how to
get you right first.
Next one is how to be aConversational Success.
Hey, it's not hard if you knowhow.
To go up to a stranger and seethem standing all by themselves
at a group and say, hi, whatbrings you here?
(42:30):
This book just reveals all thesecrets of how to do that.
And finally, how to take thePanic Out of Public Speaking
shows you how to bring all thiscomfortableness and self-belief
up before an audience, so youare in effect having a chat with
them, not being a publicspeaker.
And that's what they crave for,but rarely get.
Nigel Rawlins (42:49):
That is fantastic.
Laurie, thank you for being myguest.
Um, it's been wonderful speakingto you and seeing you again
after all these years.
Laurie Smale (42:58):
The feeling's mutual, absolute pleasure.
Welcome to the Wisepreneurs Podcast, a place
where we share stories ofstarting over no matter where
you are in life.
Today I'm thrilled to introduceLaurie Smale, a 79-year-old who
makes you wonder if there'sanything he can't do.
Picture this, a kid working in ajunkyard at 13, a university
grad at 37, and now a YouTubestoryteller lighting up screens.
(00:23):
Lori's life isn't a straightline.
It's a beautiful, messy map ofcourage and curiosity.
With a little help from mentorsand a lot of grit, he's turned
fears into triumph.
Fear is fear.
It doesn't matter if you're 78or 18, he says, if you've ever
wondered what's next for you,Lori's story might just spark an
answer.
(00:43):
Come join us on Wisepreneurs tohear how he did it and maybe
find your own next step.
Laurie, welcome to theWisepreneurs podcast.
Can you tell us something aboutyourself and where you're from?
Laurie Smale (00:54):
Well, I was born in a little place called Donald
about four and a half hoursdrive from Melbourne, a long way
away.
And, I was living there becausemy dad had TB.
And, sadly, we thought that theweather had something to do with
ameliorating diseases like that,but it didn't.
(01:16):
And he died when I was three.
So I've never really known afather's, a father's love, a
father figure in my life, so Isubstituted other people as
father figures, and they'rethese key mentors that have made
a difference to me as I've, asI've traveled along.
One of the first ones was oldBill Menzies in the junkyard.
(01:38):
Uh, I, I still, I still worshipthat man.
He was just such a beautifulhuman being and look, with my
three other brothers, we battledalong and I dunno what happened,
but somewhere along the way whenI was a little boy, I, I, I just
didn't get maths and I sort ofbecame so frightened of it.
(02:00):
It's actually got a technicalname nowadays, but it, it
tormented me for the next 30years of my life.
That was one of the reasons whyI found myself working at manual
jobs.
Later on in life, computers wereequated with this math fear.
Hence why I'm starting thisexciting new journey at 79 to
(02:22):
face these fears.
And, and deal with them.
I did deal with them earlier,but I didn't know that the
computers would rear their uglyhead and become this math thing
again.
I was behind the eight ballwhen, when they came out.
Nigel Rawlins (02:35):
So, you left school at 13, so what did you go
and do?
Laurie Smale (02:41):
Well, I ran away from school at 13.
I didn't leave school.
I, I ran, uh, I, I was, I wasbelted.
I was belted by the mathsteacher and humiliated every
day, and I just couldn't takeanymore.
So that's when I went to work atthe junk yard because I, Old
Bill didn't do that to me.
He taught me all about, allabout antiques and scrap metals,
(03:05):
and I still have that knowledgetoday.
I can walk into an antique shopand I'm knowledgeable about
things like that.
The Antique Road show.
I love it.
And I found myself working in a,an Italian glass factory at
Frankston, the Murano MosaicTile Factory, and these were the
(03:26):
days of the Dago and I wasfrightened.
They were looked down upon by usAussies, and I was led to
believe, not from my mum by theway, but just the general
population that they were dirty,they ate rats, all this sort of
stuff.
And I found that they werewonderful, warm people and they
(03:48):
ate things that I never dreamedof off, and I wanted to be like
them.
And I worked as this little boy,13-year-old.
Seven days a week.
I lived in that factory.
I slept beside the furnace.
It was nice and warm.
They fed me with lasagna and allsorts of wonderful things.
(04:08):
I lived like a king, so much sothat I wanted to be an Italian.
I.
I wanted to learn theirlanguage, and I've spent the
rest of my life learning it, andfinally ended up going to
university when I was 37 andmajoring with honors, I might
add.
(04:30):
But that school thing took medecades to have the courage to
take that first step.
I was uneducated.
I'd never read a book in my lifeuntil I was twenty-two and I was
quite proud of it.
How sad is that?
Nigel Rawlins (04:47):
Now that's an interesting point'cause I wanna
come back to that.
Obviously you had a thirst or ahunger for learning and, and
something motivated you.
But let's go back to thejunkyard, Old Bill.
Now, it's interesting, I, I wasa teacher and look a, it was
basically what they were tryingto teach you was arithmetic in
(05:09):
those days.
And it was by rote, it wasshoved down your throat and,
I'll be honest, I think mostpeople run a mile than try and
do basic arithmetic.
You try and give some change atthe supermarket and they dunno
what to do with the the coins.
They can't figure it out.
And, and so arithmetic is stilla problem today, but I remember
(05:32):
when I was teaching in a primaryschool, this was many, many
years ago, it would've been over40 years ago in a little country
town called Moonambel.
Across the road, there was awoodyard and the old guys who
worked in there were in theirseventies.
They were lean, leathery andwise to the world, and it just
(05:53):
sounds like old Bill.
These guys.
Laurie Smale (05:55):
just.
Nigel Rawlins (05:55):
They were smart, they were intelligent.
They didn't have schooling, butthey were knowledgeable and I
think, I think that's one of theissues today that we
underestimate people.
It doesn't matter if theyhaven't been to university,
they're still wise and they canpass something on and if we
overlook them, yeah.
Okay.
So.
Basically what you found is, isthat you were mentored.
(06:17):
I would suggest that you werementored when you were in the
Italian factory, but what I wastrying to think about, you've
gone from Donald to Frankston,that's a long distance away from
home.
So how did you end up inFrankston?
Laurie Smale (06:30):
Well, it, it was all, all because of necessity.
There was my mum, twenty,twenty-two or something with
three kids under four and weended up in a little place
called Moe.
Now Moe is near Yallourn or bigcoal mines were and the power
station.
(06:51):
And we lived in a governmenthouse.
We lived there for a year.
And then Mr.
Kessel one day loaded us on theback of his truck, just like
those jalopies you see in thedust Bowl of America with the,
those people that fleed all thedust and the poverty.
And we made our way to Seaford,which is next to Frankston, and
(07:13):
that's pretty well where I grewup.
That's where the junkyard was,sort of between Seaford and
Frankston, and it was stillwilderness.
I go there now and I don't, youknow, you've ever gone back to a
place when you were a little boyand you, you're lost.
You think it's, it's not thesame.
Well, that's what Seaford it istoday.
It's all built up.
But there were rabbit snakes andfoxes, literally thousands of
(07:35):
swans in the wetlands where welived, we called it the swamp.
But you don't do that nowadays.
You call it the wetlands.
Thank you.
A lot of money to buy a housethere now, but not when we went
there.
And, uh, there was my mum and,and we had no electricity.
No water.
The, the'Night Man' came, wecall him the dunny man, and um,
(07:56):
it was really something straightout of the 1850s, no
electricity.
So we had the old, um, kerosenelamp and when the Tilley lamp
came out, you pumped.
It was just unbelievable, thisbright light.
So I've got lots of interestingmemories.
But all the while I had a lot ofenthusiasm for life, but I was
(08:20):
just a, a, a wild urchin who,uh, had a insatiable cur
curiosity for the world aroundme, and I've never lost that.
Um, but I ended up beinguneducated really, until I was
(08:42):
30 years old.
Nigel Rawlins (08:44):
Well, when you say uneducated, do you mean
school educated or universityeducated?
Laurie Smale (08:49):
School education, which which became a big fear
for me.
However, I did learn a lot aboutlife.
I learned the art of handlingpeople by listening to people
like Old Bill Menzies, listeningto people like Sandy in the
Concrete Gang when I worked forthe Chelsea Council, because I
didn't think I had a story toshare.
(09:10):
So I'd listen to these guys forhours.
And I soak in their worldlywisdom, which you can't get at a
university.
And, uh, I didn't realize howenriched I was becoming.
And I draw on this in my rolenow as being a mentor to other
people who spend their livesrunning from their fears,
(09:33):
whatever they are.
I sort'em out.
I say, do you want to be likeme?
Do you wanna, because help'saround the corner.
It really is.
But if you're on the run, youdon't see that.
Nigel Rawlins (09:45):
Now it's interesting.
We were introduced by.
Sue Ellson, she was the guest onthe podcast, would you say that
she's mentored you into this newpart of your life that you're
doing?
So tell me a bit about that.
Laurie Smale (09:59):
She, she was a female, Bill Menzies, and he was
a wonderful, wonderful person inmy life as indeed the Italians
and other figures that have,that have passed my way.
And I've soaked in old Sandy onthe concrete gang, and Sue has
now part of that pantheon ofwonderful, wonderful people that
(10:19):
mean a lot to me.
Nigel Rawlins (10:20):
So tell me, have you not been working for a few
years or you've been working orsuddenly at 79, you've decided
I've got more to add.
Laurie Smale (10:28):
I, I never dreamed that I would be sitting here
with you, Nigel, uh, two yearsago.
I thought I'd miss the boat asfar as computers.
They'd tormented me for years.
I was a notable, as you recall,and renowned and respected
(10:49):
business person in thecommunication field, in the
field of helping other peoplebelieve in themselves and
communicate with confidence.
But I was still living in aworld I thought I'd get away, I
could get away without having todeal with computers because it
wasn't really a computer worldeven in the eighties.
(11:10):
We could still use emails.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll use that.
You'd do the mail post out,you'd send out thousands of
letters and you'd do thousandsof phone calls and you'd go and
meet people and that, but thenall of a sudden, almost
overnight, I was redundant andall these things that I've got
(11:31):
to share.
They'd had their day.
I had no outlet.
Everyone was talking aboutsocial media and this, that, and
the other, and it overwhelmedme.
It scared me.
And for 15 years, I, I began torealize that I had my day.
And then I heard about a personcalled Grandma Moses.
(11:54):
I just happened to hear abouther, 78 she was.
And, someone discovered her.
The truth was she'd beenpainting all her life, dabbling
in her own little way.
Someone saw her, liked what shedid.
She even has some of herpaintings now having hanging in
the White House.
She's a an American icon,Grandma Moses.
(12:16):
She lived to a hundred, stillpainting.
I thought, wow, if she can doit, I'm gonna ask for help.
And there I was at 78 when mostpeople at 78 have got their feet
up in their chair with their ruground them, and it was all
downhill from here, not me,because fear is fear.
Doesn't matter whether you're 78or 18, if you are scared of
(12:39):
something, you've gotta seekhelp, and I help people who have
got some sort of fear aboutsomething, get help.
And lots of times I can be thehelp.
I can throw the switch.
So that from one day to thenext, they're on the new path.
And that's what happened to mewith Sue.
I thought I'd write a book, I'vewritten three books, all about
(12:59):
helping yourself communicatewith confidence.
Believe in yourself.
Know, you've got a story totell.
Know, you're not an empty vesseland bad luck for you'cause
that's what life dished up foryou.
No, we've all got a wealth ofexperience to share.
Our story is that wealth ofexperience, our personal
stories.
How many people tell me, oh, Iwish I could be like you, you
(13:23):
live such an interesting life.
I haven't, it's been prettymundane and I stopped them
there.
And I said, now listen, you'vegot a very interesting life I've
been listening to over thischat.
And, believe me, your story's mystory.
Nigel Rawlins (13:40):
They haven't been heard have they?
they So how did you come acrossSue?
Laurie Smale (13:45):
So I wrote my books, and then I thought, I'm
good at telling stories.
Oh, by the way, don't beashamed.
I tell people, of saying I'mgood at something, others will
put you down.
So I say I'm good at tellingstories, which I had been.
Why don't I, why don't I put mybook, Finding Me, Finding You,
that's the title of it.
(14:06):
Before you can help someone elsefind themselves, you've gotta
find yourself first.
That's one of my mottos.
Get the other person rightfirst.
So I did, I sought out a man bythe name of Dave Stokes, made a
little sound studio, sought outsome help with a techo guy to
set it up so I would soundprofessional.
I.
And I did, and I do soundprofessional and I share this
(14:30):
lovely, lovely book ofinspirations, other people's
stories, my story to help themcast off fears and start walking
tall, looking the world in theeye.
And when I finished that, Ithought, well, I'm probably
ready for this next step.
I said, do you happen to knowsomeone that could help me a
(14:53):
little bit with LinkedIn?
He said, I know just the person.
Now, that little, that littlequestion that asking for help
changed my life.
So I rang up Sue.
It was funny after about twosessions, she said, to be quite
honest, I didn't know what hitme.
She said, you were such a breathof fresh air.
She said, and and the age youare and, and we've been on this
(15:17):
journey, the journey ofchanging.
Talk about educating Rita.
This was educating Laurie.
I didn't even know what ahashtag was.
I can remember saying whatexactly is a hashtag.
I'm 78, mind you.
And I've gone from there in oneyear to being here with you, a
respected, professionalpodcaster, respecting me as one
(15:39):
of your interviewees.
I manage my own website.
I've got my own Magic Minutes,which thousands now watch, and,
I'm going places in this newworld.
Nigel Rawlins (15:51):
And it's fascinating because what's
obviously gone through yourcareer is that you've come
across the right people to helpyou stay on track and move
forward, and you reached, andobviously with Sue, that's
through a network.
And I should say that I cameacross you more than 30 years
ago when I first quit teachingand joined the national
(16:14):
speakers.
One of our other, uh, guestswho's been on the podcast,
Meredith Fuller, suggest I getout and network.
And in those days, the only wayto network is you had to
physically go places.
You, you know, you can't justemail or, or like somebody on
LinkedIn.
And that's where I came acrossyou.
And I realized in those daysthat, uh.
(16:35):
And you know, I do remember theyused to say you had to get on
the phone, you had to getmeetings, you had to write
letters, you had to really work.
But I was too young.
I was also not young.
I wasn't young.
I was too naive to understandhow it worked.
I mean, years later I do, but itshifted.
But networking was reallyimportant.
Who do you know and who do youknow?
And can you ask for help?
(16:56):
Which is what you've just toldus that you did.
Okay, so let's move on a littlebit.
You've had a varied career.
Who would you say you are todaythen?
Laurie Smale (17:05):
Who am I today?
I'm, uh, I'm a wealth of worldlyexperience who can humbly share
this with others who now knowsthat many people, and we look up
to them, but they're harboringstuff that are holding them back
(17:26):
and never shed it, never cast itoff.
So I don't go up and, and, andpreach and say, Hey, listen, I
can, no, no, no, no.
I've got a, I've got a be at theright place at the right time,
and someone might just say, oh,I can't do that, or I can't do
this, and never have always beenscared of that.
(17:47):
And then I can share a story ortwo to get them thinking.
Nigel Rawlins (17:51):
Seems like old bill.
Laurie Smale (17:53):
just like old bill.
Nigel Rawlins (17:55):
He had time, didn't he?
Laurie Smale (17:57):
Yeah.
Nigel Rawlins (17:57):
I think that's the difference.
Today, I dunno if we've got thattime to hear.
Laurie Smale (18:02):
In fact what you said is lovely.
I'll take that away from thislittle chat.
I've become an Old Bill with,with young Laurie's, wide-eyed
and bushy tailed, and eager toknow about the world, and I'm
talking about 30, 40, 50 yearolds behaving like young Laurie,
when the right person's in frontof them.
Nigel Rawlins (18:23):
And it's lucky if they can come across you.
Alright, let's move on tosomething else now.
Technology.
Now, we had a bit of a, a techhiccup when we were starting
this, so, um.
Laurie Smale (18:35):
I was gonna bring that up
Nigel Rawlins (18:36):
Well, look, it happens a lot, um, in producing
this podcast, I use an onlinestudio, a virtual studio, so we
have to log into it.
We can see each other like aZoom meeting, but we've gotta
make sure the recording isworking.
So we need a mic and we need thehearing, and, and we had trouble
figuring it out, which obviouslyis an issue when you're a bit
(18:58):
older.
I'm not saying you are old, buttechnology is something you've
grasped onto, and I think withSue's help as well.
YouTube, with your Magic Minuteshow have you adopted technology
to work at 79?
Laurie Smale (19:11):
Well, I think, I think we've, we've gotta, we've
gotta run with it.
This is the world and, uh, yyoung people, when I say young
people, people under 40, that'show they communicate.
And, if we don't, we are seen asold fogies living in another
world.
And then you'll see olderpeople, some in their sixties or
(19:33):
seventies, freely, freely onsocial media, talking to the
grandkids and whatever, andwell, I wasn't part of that.
Two years ago I wasn't part ofit.
I'm gonna share something withyou now, which was, which was
something I was ashamed of.
Just two years ago before I metDave Stokes and did my book.
I reverted for a year togathering scrap metal off nature
(19:54):
strips.
I went back to the junkyard.
I said, well, at least I knowabout metal and, and I'm gonna
spend the whole year gathered.
So I gathered these heaps ofaluminum and stainless steel and
brass and gun metal and copperand all that.
And the big day came and I tookit down to the scrap yard about
five trips, and I can stillremember what I ended up with
(20:19):
after that years of work.
$928 I, no, no.
What the hell are you doing?
You've been this wonderful,knowledgeable person and changed
the lives of thousands andyou've been doing this for a
year.
(20:41):
And that's one of the reasonswhat sparked me off and said,
you're better than that.
Not looking down on people.
I put myself in that positionand, um, and so I know I'm
excited about this and, but I'lltell you now, while we were
trying to figure out all thosewires and you were getting me to
(21:01):
look at my settings and that thepanic, the panic did rear its
ugly head a little bit, but nowit never runs my life anymore.
I didn't sound frightened, didI?
When we sort.
Nigel Rawlins (21:16):
Mm, no, we did.
Laurie Smale (21:18):
And, and luckily you were a kind person and, and
stuck with me and said, yeah,okay, it took us about 15
minutes, but, but you didn't,you know, look down on me and
make a big deal
Nigel Rawlins (21:27):
No, I'm used to it now, to be honest.
Um, yeah, no, one of, one of thepeople who've been on this
podcast three times has the sameproblem every time.
You know, I, I wanna scream, butI don't, and you know.
We've got time when we're a bitolder, that's one, one of the
luxuries we, well, we dunno howmuch time we've got left, but we
(21:50):
have a different approach totime at our age.
So what do you recommend forothers?
Well, obviously what I'm, I'mnearly 70 so from the age of 60
on say, what do you recommendthey look at in terms of digital
tools and online stuff?
(22:11):
If they're not reallycomfortable with it, how do they
approach it?
Laurie Smale (22:15):
Well, the whole thing can be overwhelming.
Not can be it.
It is.
Now, we don't have to know howeverything works.
All the little binary yes nosgoing behind the billions of
little on offs with, we don'tneed to know about that.
In any little operation I'vefound there was probably four or
(22:38):
five key things to press.
And we can change our lives withthose key things to press.
And so do one thing at a timelike I do with, with with Sue, I
just do one little aspect of it.
I will watch her zoom that shesends me each day religiously
(22:59):
for 10 minutes.
So that that soaks in andreconfigures my fear with those
five or so six things to pressand I end up being able to
write, produce, and be be theparticipant in my Magic Minutes.
It all came from not trying todo everything.
(23:20):
And so I say to older folk,don't be overwhelmed, just stick
to a little thing and masterthat.
Master that first.
Baby stuff.
But no one knows that.
When they see you do it, theygo, ah, this guy's clever.
Nigel Rawlins (23:36):
They forget the little steps that come to it.
All right.
So what tech are you actuallyusing?
Laurie Smale (23:41):
tax?
Nigel Rawlins (23:42):
sorry, technical stuff or technical equipment
Laurie Smale (23:45):
Oh, technical stuff.
Oh, well, um, I've got anincredible little camera and
apparently if you look at myMagic Minutes, apparently it's
of movie quality.
Now I didn't know that.
I went to this company and Ijust said, I want a good camera.
(24:05):
Oh, well this is the one we use.
Well, apparently it's really topnotch and, um, and it only cost
me$800 and it just gives youthese beautiful movies.
So what did I do with that?
I phoned up someone to help mewith it.
And do you know, that wasn'teasy.
I, I remember I went to, um, abig department store and I went
(24:28):
to the computer department and Isaid, hey, look, I'm, I, I've
got a camera and I'm not surehow to use it.
Um, oh, well, you know, call upthe company or read this or read
that and it's all too much.
And so I looked up audio, audiotechnician.
Now I thought that they'd go inand, you know, just sort stuff
(24:50):
out.
And I just found a guy who cameall the way out.
He normally deals with largecompanies, you know, doing
movies.
And he, he liked my enthusiasmso much.
He liked my genuineness.
He could see I was, Idesperately needed help, but I
wasn't gonna waste his time.
And he set me up.
(25:11):
I paid him his professional feefor his hour.
I did about 10 hours with him.
He showed me how to use thiscamera and make my Magic
Minutes, a lovely, lovely man.
Nigel Rawlins (25:24):
So what camera is this that you're talking about?
What type was it?
Laurie Smale (25:27):
Uh, it's a Sanyo, just a little, little square
one.
Little tiny one that fits on atripod.
I've got certain things to do,but before I do a Magic Minute,
I've got an hour set up eachtime and then I've got to, to
rehearse it and which I do on atablet, which clips into the
front of my teleprompter.
(25:49):
And so I don't read it, but it'sthere so that I can be natural
and, and you know, I've gottatell a story that's got a
beginning, middle, and an endthat's captivating.
That means something that'sentertaining, that's inspiring
all in 60 seconds.
Nigel Rawlins (26:09):
And yet it takes you an hour to set it up.
Laurie Smale (26:11):
Well, it's taken me a lifetime to set it up.
Nigel Rawlins (26:14):
But even more, what do you do after you've
recorded it?
Laurie Smale (26:17):
Well then after recorded, this is all thanks to
Sue.
Then I edit it.
I download it, I upload it, Isideload it.
I do all those things that I, Ididn't even know anything about.
Two years ago I was collectingjunk and thinking that was where
Laurie was gonna end up.
Nigel Rawlins (26:36):
You'll laugh.
I'm, I'm thinking about Steptoeand Son that nobody young would
probably know.
Remember Steptoe and Son?
Laurie Smale (26:43):
Of course
Nigel Rawlins (26:44):
loved him.
Laurie Smale (26:45):
I do.
That was me.
That was me.
And so, so then I edit it, and Idid one this morning, actually.
It took me about three hours gofrom beginning to end and
pressed the YouTube button.
Nigel Rawlins (26:56):
I had a look at a few this morning.
They are very professional.
Um, so have you touched on AIyet?
Or artificial intelligence, anyof that stuff?
Laurie Smale (27:05):
No, but, uh, I picked up your enthusiasm for,
for it and, you hear all thisnegative stuff, but I think that
there'd be lots and lots of goodthings that you could do with
it.
The one thing I'm not afraid ofis that there's only one Laurie
Smale in the world.
And so even if someone copiedone of my things and duplicated
(27:31):
me, it would never be me.
It wouldn't have the soul andheart of who I am.
And so if whenever I go in frontof an audience.
That's my magic.
That's the magic I weave on anaudience, even via social media.
Nigel Rawlins (27:49):
Well, the, the main thing about AI for people
at our age,'cause one of theissues is that you can easily
trust it and just use it, say,to create social media posts or
something like that.
But the benefit of our age isthat we have got a long history
of knowledge so that when welook at the output, we can say,
that's not right.
(28:10):
That's rubbish.
We're able to evaluate it.
Whereas I think sometimes theyounger ones are just kicking
out 50 social media posts, whichthey can do with AI.
They're not necessarily readingit or making sure that it means
anything and, and that's one ofthe issues for us as older
adults or older.
I dunno what we call ourselveswhen we're older, but, you know,
(28:33):
technology
Laurie Smale (28:35):
Hmm.
Nigel Rawlins (28:35):
just something that we can use.
But I'm, I'm very pleased tohear that Sue was able to get
you tuned into it and, and, uh,we will put Sue's information in
the show notes.
Okay?
Let's go back to this.
You returned to school to earn adegree in your forties.
So one of the things I donotice, and I can hear loud and
(28:57):
clear is that you've spent alife of continuous learning.
You're still curious.
What do you suggest for otherpeople who are in their sixties
and, and you've met some whosay, well, I haven't done much
in my life, but what should theylearn?
Laurie Smale (29:11):
Well, they, they should learn that, which scares
them.
When I was 30, I didn't know, Iknew what a full stop was, but I
didn't know what a colon was ofsemicolon or a paragraph 30, 30,
mind you.
So I went and bought a littlebook.
I was in London, working on abuilding site, and I went and
(29:32):
bought a book called, You've Gota point Here, You've Got a Point
Here.
And then I bought a, boughtanother book about, Men and
Nations.
I still remember it.
I was uneducated in a schoolsense, not a worldly sense.
And I sat down overnight inthese building sites.
They let me live there if Ilooked after and stop robbers
(29:54):
pinching their materials.
And I had a little globe, alight globe, and I would read
out loud and slowly but surely Ibegan to see how to form a
sentence, sentences, one idea, aparagraph is one idea and, and
what the different punctuationmarks and that meant.
My advice would be to, to tacklethat which you are afraid of.
(30:20):
Go and buy a book.
Go and seek someone out andenroll or learn that.
And before you know it, and whenI say before you know it as the
days, as the weeks, as themonths go by.
As the years go by you then findwhat's the next step that I'm
scared of?
Because it's all about fear thatyou've been sidestepping.
(30:42):
Or avoiding all your life.
A bit like me at 78 with socialmedia.
I hit it head on, but baby stepswas what I wanted someone to
help me with.
I once had a guy help me withmaths when I was going to uni
and he just went straight in.
It was just too much.
I wanted baby steps stuff.
(31:02):
I wanted to know that if youmultiply a number, it gets
bigger and you divide it getssmaller.
That's where I wanted to be.
So there you've gotta takecontrol.
I'd tell them.
And go back and get someone tohelp you step by step, and
you'll be excited about itbecause someone's helping you.
Nigel Rawlins (31:24):
Yeah, but that's the issue, isn't it?
If, if they don't understandwhat the little steps are and
they try and give you the bigsteps, they lose you.
And this is the trouble with,you know, being too much of an
expert.
It's very difficult to explainthings to people.
But what I'm hearing isbasically throughout your life,
you've been reinventingyourself.
(31:44):
And here you are.
Laurie Smale (31:45):
Yeah.
But with the help of others.
When I first decided to get aneducation, which was a big fear,
it was another fear.
I've had these fears I'veovercome.
Just like social media was morethan the fear, it was a, it was
a nightmare, hence the Steptoeexperience.
And for some reason that thatwas supposed to help me avoid
(32:05):
it.
What a laugh.
But, it took a lot of couragefor me to go back to school to
even utter those words, and thathappened, I was in a motorbike
accident and I remember I was aMr.
Minute.
Yet, another thing I've done, Iwent from engraving to running
five stands throughout theSydney area and Canberra, being
(32:29):
the supervisor.
And I couldn't add up and theydidn't know it'cause I didn't
tell them.
In the end, it caught up with meand I had to run away again.
And I was in a motor accidenttrying to get my foot better.
It was really bad.
And I was walking down a street,I had to walk for a few hours
each day and I heard some kidsin a school room, and I remember
(32:51):
I was 37 and they're enjoyingthemselves and I looked through
the window, I can still rememberlooking through the window and
and I saw a cell, a cell on theblackboard, and the teacher and
the kids were interacting and a,and, and this bolt of shame went
(33:11):
through me.
I did not understand what theywere saying, and I was 37, and
then and there I decided I wasgonna go back to school.
And that's what I say abouthelping other people.
They say, oh, you might, if youthrow the switch, they can
change their life along the newpath from one day to the next.
(33:33):
And I did go back to school.
I bought a whole package of TimeLife books.
20 of them to read everythingthere is to know about the
world.
I thought that was the answer.
Of course, it was knowledgeableand I became pretty good at
Trivial Pursuit.
But, but, but it was a wonderfulstep along the way.
And when I went back to schooland I went to TAFE in
(33:54):
Collingwood with a, another lotof also rans like me.
That's, that's who my classmateswere.
I was 40, they were 18, My viewof where I was going was to be a
park ranger.
That's what I thought, if I gotyear 12, remember I left school
in year seven because I didn'tget that.
(34:15):
Now, how was I gonna attack year12, which I did.
Not only did I get through, butI got enough marks to get into
Melbourne Uni.
Freak out.
I took a year off.
Just to learn typing, learn, andstuff like that.
I went to Melbourne Uni a yearlater.
I made friends with four or fiveyoung people and stayed with
(34:37):
them for, for four years.
They helped me and I helped themwith life and that's where my
whole new path of being aneducated literate, confident
person, and that's when you metme at the national speakers.
Nigel Rawlins (34:52):
And so you made the shift, what, what we call
working with the hands toworking with the mind.
Here you are today.
So that's one heck of atransition, isn't it?
And that's the nature of theworld today.
We're moving away from using ourhands to using our heads.
It's a very different worldfrom, you know, when you're
(35:14):
lighting that Tilley Lantern.
And we should explain to peoplewe're talking about Australia,
'cause you live in Australia, sosome of these places are in the
state of Victoria that we'retalking about, and Melbourne
University is, is there.
You relaunched at 78
Laurie Smale (35:29):
Can't believe it.
And, and I've gotta say yes,I've been launched, launched
onto the social media.
Nigel Rawlins (35:38):
And this is the world that we live in.
And how long do you think youcan keep doing this for?
I mean, you've only juststarted.
Laurie Smale (35:46):
Yeah.
Look, it has no end.
It's like a hobby, but I'vegotta pace it.
I don't need to chase all thebusiness like I did when you met
me.
I've now had my family, I'vedone my best, you know, a lot of
room for improvement, but, youknow, I'm quite proud of the
(36:06):
effort I've made.
But I'm quite happy.
I'm quite happy to sell a fewbooks, make a difference to
people, but not be the big, uh,world renowned guru, but, but
certainly be well renowned andrespected and have something to
say.
Nigel Rawlins (36:27):
I totally agree with that.
I mean, look, I spend a lot oftime researching, writing, and I
still have a number of clients Ilook after, but I do not wanna
spend the whole day inside in anoffice.
Now I work from home now, havean office, but I can't wait
after this conversation to getout on my bike and go for an
hour, just get, get out in thebush a bit, and I can't wait to
(36:50):
get out in the garden and do afew of the jobs.
I don't wanna be like you, yousaid, I don't wanna be the
full-time guru or anything likethat, but like you, I want to do
the bit where I can help.
I.
Laurie Smale (37:01):
Oh, but if we don't help ourselves, we can't
help others.
And so we've gotta do, we'vegotta have a nice balanced life.
I used to be totally obsessedwith,'cause I always wanted to
be someone'cause I was always onthe run of, from me.
'cause I didn't think I wasworth much.
(37:22):
So I became very good atwhatever I did.
I, I was a professional bikerider at one stage in my life,
but to the detriment ofeverything else.
I slept, ate, and drank bikes.
I even had the bike in mybedroom with me and woe betide
anyone anyone if they touchedit.
(37:42):
I had a horrific accident at theVelodrome in Melbourne.
And, uh, and I never quite madeit, even though I was on that
bike a few weeks later with abroken collarbone and all that.
And I, I think it was a, a goodthing, a good lesson, that we
must not be totally obsessedwith anything.
(38:04):
We've gotta have balance.
There's other people that needour attention and our love.
My bike's got all of that andonly my bike.
Nigel Rawlins (38:19):
Laurie, it's, it's been a fascinating story.
How would you suggest othersmight like to make this shift?
Maybe they've sort of retired,they, they've got some skills
and some knowledge, but they'resort of finding life's not what
they were hoping that they,maybe they're getting a bit
bored or they want to sharesomething.
What advice would you give themto help them make this shift?
Laurie Smale (38:42):
Well, everyone has a story to tell.
Everyone.
And your story might be thatyou're pretty good at growing
roses.
It might be that you've traveledand you've, you've had some
experiences.
It might be that you come from adifferent country and you've got
(39:02):
a story behind that of how thathappened.
Everyone has a story.
Now, there are many groups ofpeople that would love you to
come and share it.
Now, if you've got a fear ofpublic speaking, pull the chair
up in front of them, couch it indifferent terms, and the fear
will go away.
(39:23):
Say, I would like to come alongone evening with a chair, pull
it up in front of your group andhave a friendly chat and share a
few of my travels, and thenyou're not public speaking and
you're sitting down in front ofthem and you introduce it as
just a friendly chat and getthem and say, please ask me
questions and make your talkwith you answering their
(39:45):
questions.
I would suggest if I knew what Ijust shared with your listeners
then, and I knew it as anearlier stage before I had the
confidence to speak, I would'veloved to have done that.
It's almost like a wonderfulinteractive question time.
Just have a little beginning anda little finish at the end of
it, thanking them and hope weall learn something from there,
(40:07):
I certainly did type thing, andshare what you do.
One of the biggest things we dowith ourselves, I'm not really
good at anything, I've neverdone anything.
What silly comments.
What a, a silly overview of yourlife, of your decades and
decades of living, and sometimesthe challenges are worth
(40:28):
sharing.
Like I shared about me with ascrap metal just two years ago.
That's a valuable story thatneeds to be told.
And I told her for the firsttime in my life on your program,
Nigel Rawlins (40:43):
And made$925.
Was it
Laurie Smale (40:46):
$928.
Nigel Rawlins (40:50):
That's, that's an amazing story.
Well, Laurie, you've had anamazing life from the sounds of
it, and you've made quite a fewshifts.
You've reinvented yourself andhere you are back, back in the
thick of it, sharing yourknowledge and all that.
Laurie Smale (41:06):
Can I just say that this is, it really is like
a rebirth.
It it, it's that exciting.
It's like a whole new career,but where I call the shots of
the pace and what I want to do,but it nonetheless, it's, that's
exactly what it is.
It's, it's a, it's a new Laurie.
(41:28):
There are generations that havenever heard of me or my stories
or what I've gotta offer, andthey say, where the hell have
you been?
Nigel Rawlins (41:35):
And I can hear the energy in it and the
excitement.
So it's, it's like you're a newyou.
Well, Lori, how are people goingto find you?
How would you like them to findyou or connect with you?
Laurie Smale (41:46):
While I'm on most platforms and the best way to
connect with me would belauriesmale.com, which would
take them to my web or simplylook up Laurie Smale Magic
Minute.
And get to know me, just throughthose Magic Minutes.
And should you need to gain frommy knowledge on my website
(42:10):
you'll see my books, the threebooks.
One is Finding Me, finding You,which really shows you how to
get you right first.
Next one is how to be aConversational Success.
Hey, it's not hard if you knowhow.
To go up to a stranger and seethem standing all by themselves
at a group and say, hi, whatbrings you here?
(42:30):
This book just reveals all thesecrets of how to do that.
And finally, how to take thePanic Out of Public Speaking
shows you how to bring all thiscomfortableness and self-belief
up before an audience, so youare in effect having a chat with
them, not being a publicspeaker.
And that's what they crave for,but rarely get.
Nigel Rawlins (42:49):
That is fantastic.
Laurie, thank you for being myguest.
Um, it's been wonderful speakingto you and seeing you again
after all these years.
Laurie Smale (42:58):
The feeling's mutual, absolute pleasure.
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