August 28, 2022 • 29 mins
At 82 Jan Latta is ‘Doing it her way’.
After decades trailblazing the advertising and publishing world she built, fell, and rebuilt her career.
Falling in love, and then finding out her husband was gay….
To pick up a camera and start all over again with a new passion.
Jan’s story is that of bravery.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Jen, thank you so much for joining us on the
Women of Influence podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thank you for having me, Jen.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
There is so much to go through when it comes
to an incredible life, an incredible series of stories. I
feel like when I have been able to go through
your journey, it has been one chapter after the next,
chapter after the next, and it is a story of resilience.
(00:38):
Is that what you would say?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yes? Indeed, I think the turning points in my life,
I really had to have the courage to reinvent myself
each time.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I have a thousand questions, but I guess straight up,
one of the things that strikes me about you is
so the resilience, but it's almost this fearlessness in terms
of one door will close in your life, whether you
want it to or not want it to, and no
matter what, you have a choice to step forward.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, and I think that was what the book was
all about. I wanted to encourage women to be brave
to take that.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Step, and you certainly have done that. I have to
start in a very odd position, as very odd spot,
I guess, tell me what should one do if they
encounter a gorilla?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, first of all, you're not allowed to look them
in the eye. You have to crouch down and be
in submissive pose. And I obeye those rules to begin with.
And then when the big silverback looked at me and
I looked back at him, I didn't know what happened,
(02:03):
but that changed my life. Something emotional happened, and I
decided I would change my careers and start to produce
books to children on endangered animals, mainly because my guide
said there were only six hundred mountain gillis left in
the world. I thought that was terribly, terribly sad. So
(02:28):
I had to learn to be a wildlife photographer because
I wanted the books to be real for kids to
see the animals in the wild. So that started my
twenty six journey of going to all the countries of
the animals where I wanted to make a book and
follow those animals in the wild and take a photograph
(02:49):
of their life and how they lived it.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Jen, how did you find yourself encountering a gorilla in
the first place? I mean, the resulting books happened because
of this encounter, But what brought you to be in
front of the gorilla in the first place? So holiday work?
What was it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
When I was producing the Regent magazine. This wonderful photo
essay by Karla mah arrived on my desk and it
was about African animals, and I was just mesmerized by
his photographs, and with the excuse of going to Africa
for the first time and writing a couple of captions,
(03:32):
I set off. And I'd been reading about the mountain
gorillas and I asked Carl if he could organize a
trip for me. So he did, although it was very
dangerous because the Terble War was just starting up in
the mountains, the Hutu Tutsi war, so two different types
(03:53):
of gorillas were up in the mountain at the time.
But I thought it was my only opportunity to do that,
and one thing just led to the other.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It's just it's just the most incredible, you know story, really,
but the other thing that you know, so I want
to connect the dots for everyone. So we've kind of
jumped straight to the middle. But my next question really is,
and I'll start with that, I am a super fan
of the TV series mad Men. Love It, Love It,
(04:29):
Love It. That would that be fair to say that
was almost your world, except that you were the female
version of the mad men. Is that the easiest way
to describe you.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think so. I mean advertising is a very different
type of beast, I would say. And my early experience
when I joined a big international agency was doing a campaign.
There were four groups in the agency and we all
had the task doing a campaign. My campaign was chosen,
(05:04):
but the managing direct at the time said, great idea, Jan,
I'll get one of the men to do it. And
I realized the class ceiling was. It was most probably
a cement block at the time. So it took a
long long time to prove myself and I worked in
the agency in Sydney, then London and then eventually in
(05:29):
Hong Kong.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Jam we talk about trying to get runs on the
board in a koreer that you have to continuously prove
yourself and prove what you can do in order to
level up. I almost think of it like playing a
Nintendo game or some type of computer game. You do
one level and you you know, do a few things,
(05:53):
and then you know, if you've done well, you get
to go up to the next level, and then you know,
you build the bridge and then you go up to
the next level. You were very much in an era
though where the levels. You know, they weren't going to
unlock that level for you because essentially you were female.
So how did you get through? How were you able
to get through? Was it the runs on the board?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I think my greatest challenge was in Hong Kong. My
husband and I were in competitive agencies, big international agencies.
He was sent to Japan for a company called Yan
and I wasn't allowed to work, so I hosted a
TV program which I think not fear out of me
(06:40):
for the rest of my life. But in Hong Kong,
when he was asked to open an agency there, the
competitive agency situation was a bit drastic. The top clients
from my agency went to his agency and I was
fired on the spot. So I had to learn to
(07:05):
survive in a very different sort of world. I pretended
in the beginning. When I quoted on a job, I
started doing annual reports that seemed to be the only
little area I could get into, and I would just
call my company JD Designs, and eventually I would meet
(07:27):
the Chinese client and he'd be looking around for the man,
and then he realized that I was JB Designs, and
with an oriental smile, he accepted me, and he was
my client for ten years. Now. I wasn't so lucky
with Charines. That was a very difficult client. So one
(07:49):
day I decided to have a three piece blue striped
suitmate and I dressed like a man. I stood in
silhouette in his doorway with a briefcase and i'm and
I said, conference in one or two. So he told me.
I sat down. He came and sat next to me
(08:09):
and he said, who's your Taylor. And after that we
actually had a great relationship together. I discovered he had
a sense of humor. But again it was a very
english man working with a woman. I was designing all
the anniversary events and any help, but there was always
(08:32):
a way to sort it out. And in Hong Kong,
anything goes. I mean, you can be as creative as
you like.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Do you know there's something so powerful about this. I
remember reading years ago Richard Branson's book and he talked
about his mother, who was a flight attendant who had
addressed as a man that was a little bit different.
That was to get her job, had to pretend essentially
(08:59):
to be man. But I mean, did you how do
you get through that? When you so we can reflect
on things now and probably have a bit of a
giggle or have a bit of a moment where you go,
I just can't believe that. But on the ground in
the moment, I mean, did you get home and you know,
be absolutely tearing your hair out frustrated? You know, how
(09:23):
did you manage to keep fronting up over and over
and over because in some ways we've come such a
really long way and in others I think, you know,
there's some similarities that you're talking about that I still
here today.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well, I had the biggest challenge of the biggest emotional
challenge I faced when I was fired from my agency
because the clients bolted to my husband's. That was terrible, thinking, oh,
advertising is my life? What am I going to do?
(10:00):
Top it off, my husband decided he would be gay.
He wanted to live a gay life. And I thought,
I had no visa, I had no job, I had
no money, and I have nowhere to live. I had
the choice then of coming back to Sydney and being
a highly paid creative director. But Hong Kong had an
(10:20):
energy and a vitality about it, and I thought, am
I brave enough to stay? And I did? And I'm
so glad I did.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
And that right there is the story of resilience that
I was talking about. So, I mean your husband, I
believe it was your second husband, Is that correct? Yes?
So he sits you down and you have this conversation
and you literally are starting from scratch again. Take me
back to that moment. What was What did that look
(10:50):
like for you? Where do you start? Where am I
going to live? I've got no money? Like, talk me
through this? Who do you ring?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
My goodness, you know I would have been calling my
mom and saying I'm coming home and she would have
probably said, no, you're going to stay.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I had to get over the emotion of what he
just told me, because as a woman, you sort of think,
you know, isn't my fault and all those emotions. But
a man wanting to be gay, that's something you can't fight.
That's nature, so you have to accept it and sort
of move on. But I had three, maybe four very
(11:31):
very poor years when I had very little work and
went in Hong Kong was monstrously high. But a company
eventually sponsored me, a company called Dairy Farm. And then
after that I started getting a reputation and I was
(11:54):
invited to pitch for the Region Hotel magazine and I
won that, and that was the start of ten wonderful,
wonderful years traveling all around the world for a Region Hotel,
and then Mandarin Hotel. We did their magazine worldwide as well,
and then Hiatt asked me to travel all around Asia
(12:17):
for their hotels. So I was on a creative high.
Life was just absolutely fantastic. I had nice men in
my life. I felt like a woman again.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Oh Heaven, I hope you were having the time of
your life, Jen. You know part of me hearing you
say about that. I remember reading about Rodeo Drive and
being able to select props and things like that. I
mean the creativity element. We look at the photography and
(12:53):
the children's books that you're doing. Now that huge leap
of faith creativity in advertising is paramounts. I guess I'm
curious now it's got the better of me in terms
of what your view is on creativity, how to stay
(13:14):
creative out their practices that you do. I like to
think I'm a bit of a student of creativity, so
I'm nerding out a little bit speaking with you. But
tell me about creativity to you, because it's obviously you know,
maybe I missed the mark at the beginning. It is
a story of resilience, but this is a story of creativity.
(13:36):
You had to have that even not just your personal
your professional life, but your personal life too, really has
had to be able to adapt. So talk to me
about creativity, what it means to you, what does it
look like.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Let's take the children's books. When I decided to do that,
I was terrified by the thought of traveling alone, living
in a tent in the middle of nowhere. And I
started doing research on the three great women who were
great pioneers, doctor Jane Goodall, Dayna FOSSi, and Rooty Goldacoste.
(14:20):
And in learning about them and how they coped against
all odds, that gave me courage to do it myself.
And I think once you have that courage, and really
everything about Africa is so stimulating, the beauty of it
(14:42):
and all the other countries that I've been to. I think,
after you've learned all your rules of how to find
the animal and how to photograph and how not to
get yourself in terrible danger, it's like living in a movie.
It really is. It's just absolutely wonderful. I had this
(15:04):
special moment twenty nineteen when I did my latest book,
Adventures in the Wild, and this was a present to
myself because I'd been very ill so the long trip
and I was very tired. And I arrived in my
tent and the guide said, you want to go out
(15:24):
in the afternoon. I said, oh, yes, please, So we
went out and all the fresh grasps were just starting
to grow, hundreds of animals, all sorts of animals were
out on the planes munching away, and it was like
the Garden of Eden, and all my tiredness and everything
just floated off, and I just felt tranquil and calm
(15:48):
and ready to start taking photographs the next day.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
What you've described is when you know that you're on
the right path, right. Yes, I also hear you speak
and I think it doesn't feel like work if you're
passionate about it. And I think that's what I'm seeing
as well. Throughout your life, this body of work has
(16:15):
been driven by passion. Yes, I can't imagine you doing an,
you know, a day job almost. You know, it's got
to you know, you've got to be driven by something.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Well, you know, people say, how do you decide what
book to do? And really it's a matter of sometimes
waking up or seeing an animal on television and spending
a few months doing homework as to where you could
see that animal and everything about it. And as I'm
not married anymore, I'm free. I can say, okay, if
(16:49):
I go, I got my homework and I just get
on a plane and go. And that is an incredible luxury.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Oh yeah. Can you tell me though, when is it
that you know that you got the shot? When is it?
Is it the moment that you've hit click or is
it later when you're going through everything? Is it the
you do know that moment?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Sometimes yes, because with a digital you know you can
always check that. But when I come back, I spend
weeks going through all the digitals and finding the hero
shot to tell this magic story. And the covers are
always important. I've got to have an animal looking straight
(17:38):
at me, that appeal of this wonderful goofy line looking
straight at me.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
And for those that are listening to the podcast, jan
is holding up for one of her books with the
big line on the front, and he's actually looking like
he's smiling at you. He is, Well, if you've had
a conversation, you'd said hello, gorgeous, and he's went high.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Actually I had about half an hour with him, and
you know, I've got twenty amazing posts, you know of
his facial expression. But unfortunately a big tusker came and
we could see he was in masks, so the line disappeared.
But I've had some of my most amazing experiences with lines,
(18:32):
a very dangerous one when a line chased to Wilderby's
through the middle of the tent. That was pretty scary.
With another lovely experience when I set off early with
my guide and I saw a linees quite a distance away,
and we made eye contact and we kept looking at
(18:52):
each other until she came right up to the jep.
She looked up at me, I looked down at her,
turned she walked the lens of the jeep and into
the bush, and the guy turned around and said, you
didn't take a photograph, and I said no. To have
that contact with a lioness was just so wonderful. I mean,
(19:16):
I have it as a video in my head, but
there was no need for a photograph. Even the click
of the camera might have frightened it. So yes, I
think when I tell the story about the two cheetahs
that came up to me. I think, well, firstly, cheaters
(19:38):
aren't dangerous if you're calm. But I think the emotion
that you give out to cats like our domestic cats,
they know if you like them or you don't. And
I think there's something I give off as an emotion
that allows me to be close to some of these animals.
(20:00):
I mean, it's such a privilege, it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
It sounds when you're speaking as though sometimes the experience
is more important than the shot.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yes, yes, definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
So Doing It my Way is a book that is
out now. Is there anything that you would have changed
about decisions that you've made along the way, or would
you have gone left? You initiuld have went right? Or
are you one of these people jen that has got
to this beautiful age of eighty two and think, well,
(20:39):
I wouldn't be where I am today if all these
things hadn't happened to me.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I think life decides the different turning points, so I
wouldn't change anything. I might have chosen a different second husband, but.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Well, yeah, you know that's a hindsight thing though, right,
And you know.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
That led me to supporting myself, you know, in Hong Kong,
and that led to the Regent magazine. So everything is
a continuous journey which you have to enjoy along the.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Way, Jen May, I ask, are you still in contact
with him or if you had to close that chapter
and move on.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
He closed the chapter very early.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
In fact, I was so embarrassed about it for some
reason that I didn't tell our friends. I didn't tell
the solicitor. So I was really left with no money.
But these things happen, you know, once you start feeling
like a woman again, you think, Okay, that wasn't my fault.
That's what he wanted to do. Get on with.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah. Yeah, with the not telling if your friends and things,
so not telling the solicitor, I mean that that would
have been incredibly lonely compacting all those other things as well.
I mean, I guess you know. I turned forty this year, Jen,
and I always think with my girlfriends were a little
bit of an we overshare. Sometimes I probably shouldn't say that.
(22:18):
It's so great that we probably can, but there's still
some things that are just a little bit too hard
to talk about.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
It would have been different, Yeah, And it was very
cruel time because a lot of my friends thought it
was my fault.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I would have had an affair with someone, and then
they started seeing my husband with his boyfriend and they thought, oh,
wait a minute, what happened. It was most probably over
a year before I talked about it.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, and going then out on date is going out
dates you describe. I'm feeling like a woman again. Yes,
can I out the How old were you jan when
this happened.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I would have been round about forty.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, I had this wonderful doctor. I sort of got
my act together, and then every now and then I
was a bit of a blubbering wreck, and I would
go in and see him, and he said to me,
quite early on, he said, I'm not going to give
you value. I'm not going to give you a sleeping pill.
What you need to do is go out and get laid.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
You know, it's probably the cure to a lot of things.
Did you say I'm trying?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Well, I think because I was so tight inside, of course,
I think I had to relax. And then in that
relax state, people react to it. And I had some wonderful,
wonderful lovers and boyfriends. So don't we've read anything.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And of that that you know, I just think that
is what makes all of it worth it a horrendous
chapter that you can look back on, you know, has
you know the future then held this incredible life of
I want to say mystery and adventure.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
But I think it also gives you confidence. I mean
I once I developed confidence in myself again and really
the courage to go after the Region magazine. I mean,
people thought, what are you doing. You're not going to
get it. Adrian Seki is one of the directors, and
I just went for it and I got it, and
(24:45):
then that started, you know, lovely wonderful adventures, needing some
fabulous sexy men.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Oh I have. And actually you've led me because I
thought there's someone that I'm dying to know a little
bit more about Andy Warhol. You got to meet him.
Please just tell me everything, jan tell me. I feel
like I need to pull up a cocktail and sit
back and listen. Now, tell me everything about Andy. How
(25:13):
did you meet him, What did you talk about? What
did they work on.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
There was a press conference and it was quite limited
and Andy was sitting there with his boyfriend. He had
a move overall sort of outfit on, and the journalists
were asking questions. I was really there because hotel magazines
were international, so it was the only reason I was there.
(25:40):
But then the questions, you know, got a bit stale,
and Andy said, who means interview magazine? And of course
I did. It was my favorite magazine, great editorial, so
he said, come with me and I got an exclusive interview.
And then later on but I had to do a
(26:05):
brand new concept for a local Hong Kong fashion and
sort of social magazine. And there was a cartoonist who
worked for Andy Warhol called Robert Whisko, so I emailed
him and I said, would you do some front covers
for us of all the Hong Kong celebrities And that
(26:27):
turned out to be Robert coming to Hong Kong with
his boyfriend. He wanted to bring his dog but that
wasn't allowed. And he was fantastic. And when we finished
all the pr and he did fabulous covers, twelve covers
for the first year. When he was leaving, he gave
me the gift of a wonderful portrait of myself as
(26:50):
a cartoon.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Ah, yeah, there we go. Now I can see you're
sitting in the office, so you've got it somewhere tucked
away somewhere special in the home.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
No, yes, it's so, it's downstairs, it down it's somewhere special. Jen.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I want to thank Nicole Webb who sent me. I
called it like a nomination, you know, sent this through
the Kate. You have to talk to Jen. You have
to hear Jen's story. I always feel like we've just
kind of scratched the surface a little bit when we
start to get to know you and and get into this.
(27:31):
But I do want to think. I want to thank
you for your work. I want to thank you for
sharing this incredible story, this incredible life. Oh my goodness.
And if anything, I'm kind of walking away thinking deep braveness.
You know, it's that's where your story. I thought it
was resilience, then I thought it was creativity, and then
(27:53):
I'm still at bray. I am coming back to brave.
Is that if that would be your word? Would that
be your word to describe? If you put in one word?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yes, yes, no. I joke when when something disastrous happens
and I said to a friend, I went on my headstone,
she was brave.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
And you can and you should. And I hope that
they thought that out for you in the long long
future Away, Long long future Way, Jen, thank you so
much for sharing just a snippet of your story. Doing
It My Way is out now. It got released in July,
and you've been very busy all over the place doing
(28:36):
book launches and things like that, so it'd be definitely
something that everyone can check out. But once again, thank
you for your time today, and I wish you were
all the very best. I have a feeling this isn't
the end though, right There'll be something out and you're
already walking on the next thing, aren't you.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Well actually, for the next three days are we talking
to about six hundred school children.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
They will love you as much as I have. Jan,
thank you again, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Keate
Jen, thank you so much for joining us on the
Women of Influence podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thank you for having me, Jen.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
There is so much to go through when it comes
to an incredible life, an incredible series of stories. I
feel like when I have been able to go through
your journey, it has been one chapter after the next,
chapter after the next, and it is a story of resilience.
(00:38):
Is that what you would say?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yes? Indeed, I think the turning points in my life,
I really had to have the courage to reinvent myself
each time.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I have a thousand questions, but I guess straight up,
one of the things that strikes me about you is
so the resilience, but it's almost this fearlessness in terms
of one door will close in your life, whether you
want it to or not want it to, and no
matter what, you have a choice to step forward.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, and I think that was what the book was
all about. I wanted to encourage women to be brave
to take that.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Step, and you certainly have done that. I have to
start in a very odd position, as very odd spot,
I guess, tell me what should one do if they
encounter a gorilla?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, first of all, you're not allowed to look them
in the eye. You have to crouch down and be
in submissive pose. And I obeye those rules to begin with.
And then when the big silverback looked at me and
I looked back at him, I didn't know what happened,
(02:03):
but that changed my life. Something emotional happened, and I
decided I would change my careers and start to produce
books to children on endangered animals, mainly because my guide
said there were only six hundred mountain gillis left in
the world. I thought that was terribly, terribly sad. So
(02:28):
I had to learn to be a wildlife photographer because
I wanted the books to be real for kids to
see the animals in the wild. So that started my
twenty six journey of going to all the countries of
the animals where I wanted to make a book and
follow those animals in the wild and take a photograph
(02:49):
of their life and how they lived it.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Jen, how did you find yourself encountering a gorilla in
the first place? I mean, the resulting books happened because
of this encounter, But what brought you to be in
front of the gorilla in the first place? So holiday work?
What was it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
When I was producing the Regent magazine. This wonderful photo
essay by Karla mah arrived on my desk and it
was about African animals, and I was just mesmerized by
his photographs, and with the excuse of going to Africa
for the first time and writing a couple of captions,
(03:32):
I set off. And I'd been reading about the mountain
gorillas and I asked Carl if he could organize a
trip for me. So he did, although it was very
dangerous because the Terble War was just starting up in
the mountains, the Hutu Tutsi war, so two different types
(03:53):
of gorillas were up in the mountain at the time.
But I thought it was my only opportunity to do that,
and one thing just led to the other.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It's just it's just the most incredible, you know story, really,
but the other thing that you know, so I want
to connect the dots for everyone. So we've kind of
jumped straight to the middle. But my next question really is,
and I'll start with that, I am a super fan
of the TV series mad Men. Love It, Love It,
(04:29):
Love It. That would that be fair to say that
was almost your world, except that you were the female
version of the mad men. Is that the easiest way
to describe you.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think so. I mean advertising is a very different
type of beast, I would say. And my early experience
when I joined a big international agency was doing a campaign.
There were four groups in the agency and we all
had the task doing a campaign. My campaign was chosen,
(05:04):
but the managing direct at the time said, great idea, Jan,
I'll get one of the men to do it. And
I realized the class ceiling was. It was most probably
a cement block at the time. So it took a
long long time to prove myself and I worked in
the agency in Sydney, then London and then eventually in
(05:29):
Hong Kong.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Jam we talk about trying to get runs on the
board in a koreer that you have to continuously prove
yourself and prove what you can do in order to
level up. I almost think of it like playing a
Nintendo game or some type of computer game. You do
one level and you you know, do a few things,
(05:53):
and then you know, if you've done well, you get
to go up to the next level, and then you know,
you build the bridge and then you go up to
the next level. You were very much in an era
though where the levels. You know, they weren't going to
unlock that level for you because essentially you were female.
So how did you get through? How were you able
to get through? Was it the runs on the board?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I think my greatest challenge was in Hong Kong. My
husband and I were in competitive agencies, big international agencies.
He was sent to Japan for a company called Yan
and I wasn't allowed to work, so I hosted a
TV program which I think not fear out of me
(06:40):
for the rest of my life. But in Hong Kong,
when he was asked to open an agency there, the
competitive agency situation was a bit drastic. The top clients
from my agency went to his agency and I was
fired on the spot. So I had to learn to
(07:05):
survive in a very different sort of world. I pretended
in the beginning. When I quoted on a job, I
started doing annual reports that seemed to be the only
little area I could get into, and I would just
call my company JD Designs, and eventually I would meet
(07:27):
the Chinese client and he'd be looking around for the man,
and then he realized that I was JB Designs, and
with an oriental smile, he accepted me, and he was
my client for ten years. Now. I wasn't so lucky
with Charines. That was a very difficult client. So one
(07:49):
day I decided to have a three piece blue striped
suitmate and I dressed like a man. I stood in
silhouette in his doorway with a briefcase and i'm and
I said, conference in one or two. So he told me.
I sat down. He came and sat next to me
(08:09):
and he said, who's your Taylor. And after that we
actually had a great relationship together. I discovered he had
a sense of humor. But again it was a very
english man working with a woman. I was designing all
the anniversary events and any help, but there was always
(08:32):
a way to sort it out. And in Hong Kong,
anything goes. I mean, you can be as creative as
you like.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Do you know there's something so powerful about this. I
remember reading years ago Richard Branson's book and he talked
about his mother, who was a flight attendant who had
addressed as a man that was a little bit different.
That was to get her job, had to pretend essentially
(08:59):
to be man. But I mean, did you how do
you get through that? When you so we can reflect
on things now and probably have a bit of a
giggle or have a bit of a moment where you go,
I just can't believe that. But on the ground in
the moment, I mean, did you get home and you know,
be absolutely tearing your hair out frustrated? You know, how
(09:23):
did you manage to keep fronting up over and over
and over because in some ways we've come such a
really long way and in others I think, you know,
there's some similarities that you're talking about that I still
here today.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well, I had the biggest challenge of the biggest emotional
challenge I faced when I was fired from my agency
because the clients bolted to my husband's. That was terrible, thinking, oh,
advertising is my life? What am I going to do?
(10:00):
Top it off, my husband decided he would be gay.
He wanted to live a gay life. And I thought,
I had no visa, I had no job, I had
no money, and I have nowhere to live. I had
the choice then of coming back to Sydney and being
a highly paid creative director. But Hong Kong had an
(10:20):
energy and a vitality about it, and I thought, am
I brave enough to stay? And I did? And I'm
so glad I did.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
And that right there is the story of resilience that
I was talking about. So, I mean your husband, I
believe it was your second husband, Is that correct? Yes?
So he sits you down and you have this conversation
and you literally are starting from scratch again. Take me
back to that moment. What was What did that look
(10:50):
like for you? Where do you start? Where am I
going to live? I've got no money? Like, talk me
through this? Who do you ring?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
My goodness, you know I would have been calling my
mom and saying I'm coming home and she would have
probably said, no, you're going to stay.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I had to get over the emotion of what he
just told me, because as a woman, you sort of think,
you know, isn't my fault and all those emotions. But
a man wanting to be gay, that's something you can't fight.
That's nature, so you have to accept it and sort
of move on. But I had three, maybe four very
(11:31):
very poor years when I had very little work and
went in Hong Kong was monstrously high. But a company
eventually sponsored me, a company called Dairy Farm. And then
after that I started getting a reputation and I was
(11:54):
invited to pitch for the Region Hotel magazine and I
won that, and that was the start of ten wonderful,
wonderful years traveling all around the world for a Region Hotel,
and then Mandarin Hotel. We did their magazine worldwide as well,
and then Hiatt asked me to travel all around Asia
(12:17):
for their hotels. So I was on a creative high.
Life was just absolutely fantastic. I had nice men in
my life. I felt like a woman again.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Oh Heaven, I hope you were having the time of
your life, Jen. You know part of me hearing you
say about that. I remember reading about Rodeo Drive and
being able to select props and things like that. I
mean the creativity element. We look at the photography and
(12:53):
the children's books that you're doing. Now that huge leap
of faith creativity in advertising is paramounts. I guess I'm
curious now it's got the better of me in terms
of what your view is on creativity, how to stay
(13:14):
creative out their practices that you do. I like to
think I'm a bit of a student of creativity, so
I'm nerding out a little bit speaking with you. But
tell me about creativity to you, because it's obviously you know,
maybe I missed the mark at the beginning. It is
a story of resilience, but this is a story of creativity.
(13:36):
You had to have that even not just your personal
your professional life, but your personal life too, really has
had to be able to adapt. So talk to me
about creativity, what it means to you, what does it
look like.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Let's take the children's books. When I decided to do that,
I was terrified by the thought of traveling alone, living
in a tent in the middle of nowhere. And I
started doing research on the three great women who were
great pioneers, doctor Jane Goodall, Dayna FOSSi, and Rooty Goldacoste.
(14:20):
And in learning about them and how they coped against
all odds, that gave me courage to do it myself.
And I think once you have that courage, and really
everything about Africa is so stimulating, the beauty of it
(14:42):
and all the other countries that I've been to. I think,
after you've learned all your rules of how to find
the animal and how to photograph and how not to
get yourself in terrible danger, it's like living in a movie.
It really is. It's just absolutely wonderful. I had this
(15:04):
special moment twenty nineteen when I did my latest book,
Adventures in the Wild, and this was a present to
myself because I'd been very ill so the long trip
and I was very tired. And I arrived in my
tent and the guide said, you want to go out
(15:24):
in the afternoon. I said, oh, yes, please, So we
went out and all the fresh grasps were just starting
to grow, hundreds of animals, all sorts of animals were
out on the planes munching away, and it was like
the Garden of Eden, and all my tiredness and everything
just floated off, and I just felt tranquil and calm
(15:48):
and ready to start taking photographs the next day.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
What you've described is when you know that you're on
the right path, right. Yes, I also hear you speak
and I think it doesn't feel like work if you're
passionate about it. And I think that's what I'm seeing
as well. Throughout your life, this body of work has
(16:15):
been driven by passion. Yes, I can't imagine you doing an,
you know, a day job almost. You know, it's got
to you know, you've got to be driven by something.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Well, you know, people say, how do you decide what
book to do? And really it's a matter of sometimes
waking up or seeing an animal on television and spending
a few months doing homework as to where you could
see that animal and everything about it. And as I'm
not married anymore, I'm free. I can say, okay, if
(16:49):
I go, I got my homework and I just get
on a plane and go. And that is an incredible luxury.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Oh yeah. Can you tell me though, when is it
that you know that you got the shot? When is it?
Is it the moment that you've hit click or is
it later when you're going through everything? Is it the
you do know that moment?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Sometimes yes, because with a digital you know you can
always check that. But when I come back, I spend
weeks going through all the digitals and finding the hero
shot to tell this magic story. And the covers are
always important. I've got to have an animal looking straight
(17:38):
at me, that appeal of this wonderful goofy line looking
straight at me.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
And for those that are listening to the podcast, jan
is holding up for one of her books with the
big line on the front, and he's actually looking like
he's smiling at you. He is, Well, if you've had
a conversation, you'd said hello, gorgeous, and he's went high.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Actually I had about half an hour with him, and
you know, I've got twenty amazing posts, you know of
his facial expression. But unfortunately a big tusker came and
we could see he was in masks, so the line disappeared.
But I've had some of my most amazing experiences with lines,
(18:32):
a very dangerous one when a line chased to Wilderby's
through the middle of the tent. That was pretty scary.
With another lovely experience when I set off early with
my guide and I saw a linees quite a distance away,
and we made eye contact and we kept looking at
(18:52):
each other until she came right up to the jep.
She looked up at me, I looked down at her,
turned she walked the lens of the jeep and into
the bush, and the guy turned around and said, you
didn't take a photograph, and I said no. To have
that contact with a lioness was just so wonderful. I mean,
(19:16):
I have it as a video in my head, but
there was no need for a photograph. Even the click
of the camera might have frightened it. So yes, I
think when I tell the story about the two cheetahs
that came up to me. I think, well, firstly, cheaters
(19:38):
aren't dangerous if you're calm. But I think the emotion
that you give out to cats like our domestic cats,
they know if you like them or you don't. And
I think there's something I give off as an emotion
that allows me to be close to some of these animals.
(20:00):
I mean, it's such a privilege, it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
It sounds when you're speaking as though sometimes the experience
is more important than the shot.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yes, yes, definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
So Doing It my Way is a book that is
out now. Is there anything that you would have changed
about decisions that you've made along the way, or would
you have gone left? You initiuld have went right? Or
are you one of these people jen that has got
to this beautiful age of eighty two and think, well,
(20:39):
I wouldn't be where I am today if all these
things hadn't happened to me.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I think life decides the different turning points, so I
wouldn't change anything. I might have chosen a different second husband, but.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Well, yeah, you know that's a hindsight thing though, right,
And you know.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
That led me to supporting myself, you know, in Hong Kong,
and that led to the Regent magazine. So everything is
a continuous journey which you have to enjoy along the.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Way, Jen May, I ask, are you still in contact
with him or if you had to close that chapter
and move on.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
He closed the chapter very early.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
In fact, I was so embarrassed about it for some
reason that I didn't tell our friends. I didn't tell
the solicitor. So I was really left with no money.
But these things happen, you know, once you start feeling
like a woman again, you think, Okay, that wasn't my fault.
That's what he wanted to do. Get on with.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah. Yeah, with the not telling if your friends and things,
so not telling the solicitor, I mean that that would
have been incredibly lonely compacting all those other things as well.
I mean, I guess you know. I turned forty this year, Jen,
and I always think with my girlfriends were a little
bit of an we overshare. Sometimes I probably shouldn't say that.
(22:18):
It's so great that we probably can, but there's still
some things that are just a little bit too hard
to talk about.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
It would have been different, Yeah, And it was very
cruel time because a lot of my friends thought it
was my fault.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I would have had an affair with someone, and then
they started seeing my husband with his boyfriend and they thought, oh,
wait a minute, what happened. It was most probably over
a year before I talked about it.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, and going then out on date is going out
dates you describe. I'm feeling like a woman again. Yes,
can I out the How old were you jan when
this happened.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I would have been round about forty.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, I had this wonderful doctor. I sort of got
my act together, and then every now and then I
was a bit of a blubbering wreck, and I would
go in and see him, and he said to me,
quite early on, he said, I'm not going to give
you value. I'm not going to give you a sleeping pill.
What you need to do is go out and get laid.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
You know, it's probably the cure to a lot of things.
Did you say I'm trying?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Well, I think because I was so tight inside, of course,
I think I had to relax. And then in that
relax state, people react to it. And I had some wonderful,
wonderful lovers and boyfriends. So don't we've read anything.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And of that that you know, I just think that
is what makes all of it worth it a horrendous
chapter that you can look back on, you know, has
you know the future then held this incredible life of
I want to say mystery and adventure.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
But I think it also gives you confidence. I mean
I once I developed confidence in myself again and really
the courage to go after the Region magazine. I mean,
people thought, what are you doing. You're not going to
get it. Adrian Seki is one of the directors, and
I just went for it and I got it, and
(24:45):
then that started, you know, lovely wonderful adventures, needing some
fabulous sexy men.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Oh I have. And actually you've led me because I
thought there's someone that I'm dying to know a little
bit more about Andy Warhol. You got to meet him.
Please just tell me everything, jan tell me. I feel
like I need to pull up a cocktail and sit
back and listen. Now, tell me everything about Andy. How
(25:13):
did you meet him, What did you talk about? What
did they work on.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
There was a press conference and it was quite limited
and Andy was sitting there with his boyfriend. He had
a move overall sort of outfit on, and the journalists
were asking questions. I was really there because hotel magazines
were international, so it was the only reason I was there.
(25:40):
But then the questions, you know, got a bit stale,
and Andy said, who means interview magazine? And of course
I did. It was my favorite magazine, great editorial, so
he said, come with me and I got an exclusive interview.
And then later on but I had to do a
(26:05):
brand new concept for a local Hong Kong fashion and
sort of social magazine. And there was a cartoonist who
worked for Andy Warhol called Robert Whisko, so I emailed
him and I said, would you do some front covers
for us of all the Hong Kong celebrities And that
(26:27):
turned out to be Robert coming to Hong Kong with
his boyfriend. He wanted to bring his dog but that
wasn't allowed. And he was fantastic. And when we finished
all the pr and he did fabulous covers, twelve covers
for the first year. When he was leaving, he gave
me the gift of a wonderful portrait of myself as
(26:50):
a cartoon.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Ah, yeah, there we go. Now I can see you're
sitting in the office, so you've got it somewhere tucked
away somewhere special in the home.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
No, yes, it's so, it's downstairs, it down it's somewhere special. Jen.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I want to thank Nicole Webb who sent me. I
called it like a nomination, you know, sent this through
the Kate. You have to talk to Jen. You have
to hear Jen's story. I always feel like we've just
kind of scratched the surface a little bit when we
start to get to know you and and get into this.
(27:31):
But I do want to think. I want to thank
you for your work. I want to thank you for
sharing this incredible story, this incredible life. Oh my goodness.
And if anything, I'm kind of walking away thinking deep braveness.
You know, it's that's where your story. I thought it
was resilience, then I thought it was creativity, and then
(27:53):
I'm still at bray. I am coming back to brave.
Is that if that would be your word? Would that
be your word to describe? If you put in one word?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yes, yes, no. I joke when when something disastrous happens
and I said to a friend, I went on my headstone,
she was brave.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
And you can and you should. And I hope that
they thought that out for you in the long long
future Away, Long long future Way, Jen, thank you so
much for sharing just a snippet of your story. Doing
It My Way is out now. It got released in July,
and you've been very busy all over the place doing
(28:36):
book launches and things like that, so it'd be definitely
something that everyone can check out. But once again, thank
you for your time today, and I wish you were
all the very best. I have a feeling this isn't
the end though, right There'll be something out and you're
already walking on the next thing, aren't you.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Well actually, for the next three days are we talking
to about six hundred school children.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
They will love you as much as I have. Jan,
thank you again, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Keate
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