NIAMH MCMAHON: 'I WILL BE YOUR SURROGATE'

We are back with our first feature for this season.

Niamh McMahon is a Women of Influence. 

Niamh is a wife, businesswoman and mother of 2 children. 

She has gifted a child to the world. A child to Wil and Nigel in the form of surrogacy. 

So how did this even come about?

How did she raise it with her husband?

What did she tell her kids?

Was she paid?

What was the psychological toll?

What is the connection to the baby now?

I have so many questions that I can’t wait to find out the answers to…. But one thing I know for sure. Niamh is a Woman of Influence. 

This is kindness is action.

 

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Get in contact with us through the Women of Influence HOTLINE!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Thank you so much for taking the time to listen
to the Women of Influenced Podcasts today. We are so
excited that you are here and we cannot wait to
kick this episode off in just a moment with Neve.
There is so much to come out of this episode.
This is truly kindness in action.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
While you're here, just wanted to take a moment to
say thank you.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
You see, we don't charge anything for you to listen
to the podcast. There's going to be no money withdrawn
for your bank account. It is totally free for you
to listen. But there is a way that you can
help support the work that we do.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
And it's really easy.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
If you love an episode, all we ask is that
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Speaker 2 (01:06):
Group, which you are more than welcome to join. Enjoy
this episode. We're super proud of it.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
We can't wait to share this story of Neve surrogacy.
Kindness in action for everyone, but for Neve and her
family and friends. This is a celebration of a woman
of influence. Neve is a wife, business woman, and another
of three children. She has gifted a child to the world,

(01:33):
a child to Will and Nigel, in the form of
a surrogacy. So how did this even come about? How
did you raise it with her husband?

Speaker 2 (01:41):
What did you tell her kids? Was she paid? What
was the psychological toll? What's the connection to the baby?

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Now?

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I have so many questions and I cannot wait to
find out all these answers. But one thing that I
know for sure is that some babies are born into
the world and of course it is all joy, and
some babies are born into this world and it's nothing
but a burst of love. And when this little baby

(02:10):
was born, there was nothing but a burst of love.
Neve is a woman of influence and she joins us now. Nev,
thank you so much for saying yes to joining us
on this podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
Thank you for asking me. It's very exciting, Neiv.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
I guess we have to start at the beginning for
this whole process in terms of this didn't just it
wasn't kind of a nine month deal. In terms of yeah,
let's just go and give this gift of life I
believe it was about a two year process.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
The very beginning. I knew Nigel for a couple of
years or probably eight years now, but I knew that
he always wanted kids, and then he met well and
another and we were actually at a friend's birthday and
I don't know how constantly about kids and they both said, oh,
I can't wait, like because they're engaged and whatever. And

(03:04):
I said, oh, what does that look like for you guys,
Like how do you go about that? And they're like, oh,
I haven't read one much research, but Australia is probably
behind the times when it comes to sergacy and stuff,
so it would look like America or Canada something like that.
And I just thought, oh, how horrific to have to
go to those lengths. But also the thought of someone
having your baby in a different country, I just thought, God,

(03:27):
the emotional toll would be horrible, like, you know, you'd
be worried about it or whatever. And this is pre COVID.
So thank god they didn't end up in a situation
because that's a very other interesting scenario for a lot
of people that they couldn't even get to their babies
when they were born. But so I went away and
I kind of just was really intrigued. And a few
years ago my sisters had had some health issues and

(03:48):
we kind of have joked after I had my babies
because I quite liked pregnancy and giving birth to whatnot.
I was like, oh, well, if you know, if it
ever comes up and hit me up, I'll have one
of yours. And then just over the years seeing friends
with fertility issues and whatever, and yeah, it just always
interested me. And then started looking up serga see and

(04:09):
just was found it really intriguing about how it actually works,
and there wasn't a lot of information in Australia, so
kind of you start to talking about it, and then
I think I got to the point I found as well,
like with the easy pregnancies, I also found emotionally on
one of those women that don't necessarily connect with the
baby while it's in my belly. I kind of felt
I had to meet my babies. Like I always was

(04:30):
very protective, but it wasn't like you know some women,
I think the moment they're pregnant they feel this love
or I've heard I kind of had to meet the baby,
go oh my god, it's an actual real person and
kind had to meet it. So I thought emotionally I'd
be quite good at it as well as physically, but
wanted to do all my research first before I said
to anyone, because I thought, what a can of worms

(04:50):
to open if I kind of and I think people
take it a bit too lightly sometimes and a lot
of people like we've been out like drinking or whatever,
and people would hear the store or even just with
game and they go, oh, be your surrogate, I'll do
that whatever, and it's well, it's a lovely thing to say.
I think sometimes can be a bit if they're in
that process of trying to find a surrogate, can be

(05:11):
a bit overwhelming because they kind of have to smile
and laugh it off and be like okay, thanks, and
it's like, no, what's my life, I'm trying to do it.
So I was really cautious of having all my ducks
in a row before I brought up with my husband
or the boys. So did my research. Lodinton. I thought, no,
I really would like to do, and then spoke with
my husband. He's a real relaxed, middle of the road

(05:35):
kind of doesn't have a huge emotional range man, real
cam like the bloody todat or would you have some emotions?
And he used to actually drive me mental, but as
we get older, I'm quite an emotional person. So as
a good older I do find his influence positive thing

(05:56):
because he brings me back down to earth when I escalate.
So with him, kind of was saying it to him
and kind of explained how I was feeling and whatnot,
and yeah, he was pretty good. And once he makes
up his mind or something, he's kind of locked in.
So he kind of asked his questions and he's like, look,
my worries are probably your emotional wellbeing because I would

(06:17):
have had I had post natal depression after my first
child and wasn't diagnosed quite a long time, and I
was quite ill with that, and so to him, that
was probably his only worry. He wasn't fathered about the
pregnancy or any of that. It was mental health. And
I was like, yeah, fully get what you're saying, but
I feel for me. I don't like raising babies. I

(06:39):
can have them, but I really struggled with the lack
of sleep, the crying there, not knowing what I'm doing.
It was just too much. So I felt like that
wouldn't be my trigger. Having the baby isn't the trigger,
it's the actual looking after a baby I didn't particularly like.
So yeah, we talked true a couple of times. I
just felt right for us, so I said, Okay, cool,

(07:02):
let's let's go for it. If the boys are keen,
I'll offer anyway. It was like they might say no,
maybe they don't want me to have their baby. So
the boys were planning their wedding at this point, and
I met up actually the Melbourne Marathon. My husband's doing
the marathon with a couple of friends and stuff, and
the boys were there to support their family. And just

(07:23):
kind of took them to the side and said, look,
this is really kind of all left wing. And I
know you're not looking yet. I know you're doing wedding
planning and whatnot, but when you're already start your family,
i'd be really keen to discuss being your surrogate. And
I know this is like a really random thing to say,
but I'm saying it's sober and I'm saying it seriously.
And Matt was there as well, and the boy and

(07:45):
Will and I were like, what, like, yeah, they were
really kind of in shock. I think it didn't feel
real maybe, so I said, look, that was in October.
I goes, look, let's meet up when you're down in
warnerabul Christmas and we'll actually have a proper chat. You
guys have a think, or let's wait until after everyone's
wedding stone or whatever. And yeah, I just started talking

(08:06):
about it's from there really.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
So just because I have a similar husband with the
emotional range thing and bless and bless him for it,
I'm just imagining what that conversation actually was like. Was
it you know, one morning you're laying in bed together

(08:30):
and you roll over and you say, hey, so I
think about this and this is what I'd like to do, Like,
how do you even broach that?

Speaker 4 (08:40):
And it is a big deal because it is your body,
it's but you have made a partnership together as a
husband and a wife, and there would be implications, not implications,
there would be what am I looking for you?

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Ramifications your health and you're yeah, just looking.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
After small kids and yes, yeah, how do you approach
this with your hobby lark?

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, I asked him. But it was more than that.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Yeah, I guess it was made a small bit easier
a couple of years ago before we had kids. We
had a lesbian couple that were friends, and it kind
of came up that a few years previous meeting on
the scene that if they'd wanted to have children, Matt
was willing to be a donor. So I think that

(09:30):
started with another couple of heterosexual couple that were going
through a lot of rounds of IVF, and just we
kind of had that conversation and said it was like, God,
I wonder how we'll go having kids or because Matt's
eleven years older than me, and even though usually men
kind of it's usually the women, I suppose, but well,
that's a terrible thing to said, and all it is.
But I thought, God, I hope we were okay, and

(09:51):
you never know until you start trying. And just so
we kind of had that conversation and I said, oh God,
it will be amazing to be a sergus. I have
a lot of respects for people to do that and whatever.
So I think we kind of more kind of came up.
Then I said, oh, do you remember a few years
ago when we talked about this. I was chatting to
will In Nigel at Nicole's birthday and it kind of

(10:14):
came up and I haven't said anything. I kind of
reassured him. I was like, literally, this is the first
time it's coming out of my mouth, so this isn't
like it's an action kind of thing. And just said,
this is what I've been researching, this is how I feel.
And it kind of just took it in and mulled
it over, and then we were when we were literally
driving to Melbourne. I think it was like two weeks later,
I said, oh, look, Will and Igel be here, I'd

(10:36):
like to have a chat if if that's what we
decided or were not decided, and we just went, yeah, no,
I'm on board. Cool, and that was kind of it,
and at least on board, let's start the discussions. If
it doesn't all work out, it doesn't work out.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Now, you said, also, you know I wanted to do
my own research. I've just picked up my phone because
you know, I do my best research, probably lying on
the character in bed.

Speaker 5 (10:59):
Yeah, I probably, I know, but I mean this is
how how it works now, right, So you pick up
your phone one afternoon.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
What surrogacy Australia Australia.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Kind of yeah. And I also went on the social
media's and there's quite a few people now like TikTok has.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Wow, I know that a little dance you put the
egg here and there and.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
You're doing And it was interesting because obviously I didn't
know the difference even between like egg collection and surrogacy
and IVF and like there's so it's kind of like
you're wading through and I have no medical background or
and that's I was kind of wading through stuff going like,
I'm not really sure medically what it involves. So I

(11:50):
kind of didn't really go into the medical side of
things in the sense that I thought, well, we're going
to have doctors and we'll do what we do and
see what happens. So I think I was more focused
on the emotional side could I do it, and kind
of timelines as well, because you're kind of committing to
something quite big, far along quite yeah that you kind

(12:12):
of have to be around and kind of even like
it was like overseas trips to the dads, I was like, well,
how do you feel if I travel pregnant, like if
I go home to Ireland, because I've traveled with both
my pregnancy, so I was fine, but it's not my baby,
it's their baby, but it's my life. So it's kind
of like those discussions and we found I think it's
Arta va RTA is the website. I found this questionnaire

(12:34):
just from googling, and it's kind of it was basically
like what you as a potential surrogated feel about all
these issues and what the intended parents feel about all
similar issues. And you both do the questionnaire and then
you're meant to come together to discuss it. And to me,
communication is a huge thing. I overcame okay, probably, but

(12:58):
the advice out there was really like things that go
wrong happen from the lack of communication of these circumstances, like
if you're too afraid to have discussions, like they're awkward
conversations like what like abortion comes up quite like, you know,
if there's medical issues, who has to say over who
are some sergates will be like, no matter what, I
would never have an abortion, and that's that's their choice,

(13:18):
and it's legally it's the surrogate's choice, but ethically, like
that's kind of up in the air, isn't it, Because
it's their baby, but it's your body. So having those discussions,
you should always be upfront as well when it.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Comes to those questions then didn't you and Nigel and
Will have any that you kind of did get a
little bit stuck on that you were a bit Oh,
I thought that would be totally fine.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Oh no, we need to talk about this one some more.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
No, to be honest, we were really in line with
all of them. I'm trying to think now, because you'd
imagine it would come up, and I think in most scenarios,
a dog. I think we've just been really lucky to
really have the same outlook on a lot of things,
on most things, and quite I suppose from both sides,

(14:10):
we were both quite clear, like they were resupportive and
that like, it's your body, so when it comes to
the medical stuff, you'll always come first. And that was
something I always said as well. I was like, I
have two small children at home, even if I was
having my own pregnancy, my children at home my priority.
So felt like strongly about saying that, and they were
very and they reiterated many times, They're like, you're number

(14:33):
one here God, but it doesn't come up. But if
it does come up, that's, you know, the process we'll
be going through. And if it was my medical needs,
i'd been making decisions and if it was the babies.
They'd been making the decisions, which is more just as well.
I suppose that we'd keep reassuring each other because in
the medical system they had no say whatsoever, which I

(14:54):
thought was quite unfair. But yeah, it's Australia hasn't got
any I suppose legislators. There's a lot of gray areas.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
So when you make an appointment with the doctor and
you say, look, I've been watching TikTok and I'm.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Thinking, like, all good life, I shouldn't keep referring to it.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
But I liked to think, you know, honest and with
a bit of humor, we can get.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Because there wasn't There wasn't other information, So I was like, okay,
it's got this.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
So you make an appointment with your doctor first for
some health checks.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
I'm imagining at any point did your local doctor please
you don't have to say names.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
I don't think that's required, but did they say, Neve,
are you really sure about this? Like have you like?

Speaker 3 (15:44):
Or Neve?

Speaker 2 (15:45):
We need you.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Part of the requirement is that you will need to
see a psychologist or a psychiatrist. We need you to
have some counseling before this goes any further, what did
that look like for you? And just even the health checks, like, yep.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
You Nick, you're a good break up, You're the guy.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Because I was never checked for my own. It's a
funny situation because you don't get checked out for your
own usually, you know if you're to start trying, whereas
this one, I was like, yeah, you got to do
a few tests. So my GP was amazing. She's a lady,
and when during that conversation I explained I was doing,
she was kind of mind blown, but it was really lovely.
She actually used donor Eggs to have her child, and

(16:24):
that was the first person I'd actually met that had
been through some of the experience, do you know and so,
and she was like, oh, amazing that you're helping someone.
And I suppose she didn't really be too concerned really
medically or mentally, because legally I had to do mandatory counseling.
I had to do a psychological review, and so did

(16:46):
both the what Will and Nigel and my husband. We
all had to do counseling and a psychiatric evaluation, and
we all had to have independent legal counseling. So it's
quite a strenuous kind of process. And then all of
that gets message in Victoria, which is another thing in
all the states have different rules which can be quite confusing.
But in Victoria we have the PRP. It's a panel

(17:09):
of people that have to approve the surrogacy. So you
have to put all your stuff in, the reports from
the counselors, the psychologists, the doctors, the fertility specialists. Saw
that that's all go in and they have to actually
give you approval to go forward. So that's nerve working.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
So personally for you and not speaking for any other
surrogate that has been through this process. Did that feel
like a lot, like a lot of hoops to get through?
I just want to give these guys a baby? Or
did it feel like I can see why we're being
all protected and looked after through the process.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah. I think it's definitely necessary. One. Yeah, because I think, yeah,
you don't know you can do it until but you
don't know you can do it until you have the baby, really,
do you know what I mean? But there should be
safety checks, and there should be and I think there's
there's people out there that can turn service a bag
if they're sometimes unintentionally. Sometimes I just want to help

(18:07):
and don't recognize that they can't. I think it particularly
comes up maybe with family member teams, because you really
want to help your sibling or whatever whoever it is,
to have their baby, but maybe that isn't the best
thing for you or your mental health or the family
dynamics or whatever the case may be. Or there's people
that there's service that could take advantage and once you're
pregnant of their baby, and it's purely altruistic. In Australia,

(18:31):
you're not you don't get paid, nor should you. And
there's been instance I think of people maybe pushing that
a bit and be like, oh I need this, I
need that. And it's a very vulnerable situation. So if
you have the vulnerable people in it, they should be protected,
I think.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
And thank you for answering that that was that was
one of those questions because that's something that we have
potentially read about oversea.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
You know, you pay for them, you know this shy
you know. Yeah, yeah, So thank you for that. And look,
we had a bit of a pre chat before we
jumped on to start recording, and that's always important to
me because we make sure that is it nothing off
the table that we can't talk about is there anything

(19:14):
that's a little bit touchy and you've basically said no,
you know, let's so then so then it gets back
on to me and and so I think, great, so
let's let's do those questions that are kind of hard
to ask, I guess at times and for me, So money, okay,

(19:36):
no medical bills and things like that, Yes.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Yes, I'll covered. So the idea is by being a surrogate,
I shouldn't be able to park it. So they pay
all the medical bills, which I think again actually is
a bit harrish on with surrogacy. It's not covered by Medicare,
so rebates. Yeah, so then it's just another barrier. I

(20:03):
think it's actually, yeah, it just makes it more difficult
for people to have families. And so yeah, so they
paid all my medical bills and stuff. Yeah, and then
they can also reimburse like say obviously maternity clothes, additional medications,
and it can be it's a bit of a gray
area again, but as long as you can kind of
prove it for services, to say, if I'm quite ill,

(20:23):
they can pay for a meal service which I didn't need.
Luckier in that, or they can play for a keep cleaner.
They can pay for extra daycare days for the kids
if I have to attend medical appointments or if I'm
too done well, and the cost can really stack up
if you do have a bad pregnancy, for the intended parents,
they have to Yeah, I suppose be aware of that,

(20:45):
even say if I I mean, I work for myself
and our business, so it wasn't really an issue. But
if I worked, to say, for a company, and had
to if I ran out of sick leave and I
take unpaid leave, they'd have to cover my wages plus
the super on top of my wages and things like that.
So that can be quite structured. And then legally, like

(21:05):
that's laid all out for you when you want to
do your legal consoles and stuff. So yeah, it's basically
you shouldn't be out of pocket as the general rule.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
I don't think for one moment this was easy. I
think I'm still like, wow, yeah, there's a lot.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
It is. It's really interesting, it's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, Nave, My question too is around you have two
beautiful children, and now you're going to enter into this
process the egg.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Can you tell us about the egg place?

Speaker 3 (21:36):
In nowhorries, It was not my egg, which I think
I'm not sure about the other states. In Victoria, as
far as I know, you can't use your egg, so
it was it was a donor egg and the that
was actually our stumbling block. It was funny in one
sense this It seems to be from other stories that

(21:58):
getting the donor eggs the easier part and finding the
surrogate can be that nothing's easy, but you know what
I mean, the slightly easier part and the surgut is
the harder part. But we were all lined up and
we had no eggs, so it was kind of a
bit of a weight. But I mean Will and Nigel
will know more about it, obviously, but I think it
was the world. There's an egg bank in Melbourne, but

(22:19):
generally speaking there is a long, very long waiting list,
so I'm not sure how the boys got lucky, but
they did, and a beautiful soul donated eggs and we
saw her profile and everything. But it's anonymous and just
a young person. I think you have to be under
twenty six to donate eggs, so it's quite imagine thinking, oh,

(22:46):
donate eggs like so just that's I think that's beautiful
that someone came forward did that and had to undergo
all that. So they Yeah, so they got six eggs
from the donor back.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
You explained earlier that in terms of part of the
thinking process for you, for you carrying your children, you
carried them, then they entered the world, and then you
were able to fall in love with them.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Do you think it.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Not being your egg too was helpful in terms of
being able to kind of associate the I'm carrying my baby,
this is not my baby, or can you take me
through a bit of that headspace stuff?

Speaker 3 (23:29):
Definitely, Yeah, definitely, I reckon not so much. Possibly during
the pregnancy. I feel like it would be harder if
it came out like looking like me with the egg.
I think if or like like my children, I feel
like emotionally that would be harder. Definitely. I think if
it was for a family member avery bit different, beau,
say myself, my sister's only thirteen months stream as we

(23:50):
look very similar. So if say I did it for
her with my egg and it looked like us, that
wouldn't be but it would be. But this is like
someone else's entire family altogether, Like you know, it's not
my family at all. So and we joked actually that
if it was my egg and the baby came out
with ginger hair, are you really jealous? Because I always
wanted a ginger kid because I'm ginger, but my two

(24:11):
kids are like Blundie brown. I'm like, if you get
the ginger and I'm really annoye, Like, I'll just so. So Yeah,
it was more of the afters. I think what I
would struggle with if it genetically looked like me.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, yeah, what was it like? So it's one thing
to tell your husband, and it's one thing that you
vented into this partnership, So you and your husband with
Will and Nigel that this is what you're going to do.
The next phone call or the next conversation I guess
is extended family.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
From your side of the story.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
What's it like calling your parents or your husband's parents
and brothers and sisters, and then I guess telling the
wider community, which is your friends and things like that,
like cat, you know, did anyone sit you down and go, well.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Naves, Yeah, we were expecting a bit of that, people
not understanding or whatever I have to say. Overall, it
was massively positive response. Absolutely not Everyone was just blown
away and so supportive. The only negative response was actually
my parents. They I have to say, I think it

(25:28):
came from a place of worry. They're obviously in Ireland
and in Australia were very fair apart and it was
in the midst of COVID Ireland have been going through.
I think they're on a two hundred to day of
lockdown mental health. Everyone was struggling. They're trapped at home,
just the two of them, and I knew. I knew
they'd have worries, but I didn't expect yeah anyway, they

(25:51):
just I think they were more concerned that my medical
side of things. They're like, well, why would you do it?
And I'm like, I'm thirty six, I could be have
my third baby and no one as that an eyelids.
It's not as if like it's super out there. But
I think in their head they're like, well, something goes wrong,
it's not even for your family, like you're putting yourself
at risk. And they're also worried about the mental impact
on the kids that some damage them. And I took

(26:16):
their concerns seriously and responded and everything, and I said, look,
at the end of the day, though I've covered everything.
After my satisfaction my husband's happy, my kids are happy.
It's my decision, and they respected that and I think
probably just relieved once it was done. I think they
just were worried and that's just a natural response and whatever.

(26:38):
And then my husband's mother, we all lived together and
she she's were very close and that apologies are on
my phone. I didn't put on silent. She got upset.
She thought it was my egg and she was like
it was so then it was nearly kind of her grandchild.
So I think she showed with that site. But once

(27:01):
I said no, no, the donor egg not mine, she
was like, oh, okay, cool, and she's she's an ex
nurse and she's very practical and she's yeah on the ball.
So yeah, after that then it was just normal and stuff,
and we didn't tell anyone else by the parents until
it came to like announcing the pregnancy, just because I

(27:24):
suppose with anything, like you don't know, like you know,
could take.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
All the hurdles as it is, we haven't even you know,
kind of got to the implanting set.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
You know, why do you get pregnant? Do you know?
You don't want everyone to look at me like be
pregnantly pregnant or you know, dads especially I think for
their for your first baby. You don't want everyone looking
at you think, you know, wondering or whatever. So I
got that. So that was probably one of the hardest
parts of keeping the secrets because everyone we know, like

(27:56):
we've been quite vocal that we're finished our family, like
we're two and done, like we're doing want any more kids.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
So and now you've got this story, you've got the.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Advising me of drinking. Why isn't.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
In my group of friends that I would that would
be a telltale like.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
Yes, and with my age and stuff, like people would
immediately have got if we hadn't been so like, no,
we're done, people would have been like, oh, she's definitely
it would have been the obvious guest, like so, yeah,
that was hard waiting for the thirteen weeks again, I
think it was yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
And did you sit down and tell the kids? And
what did you say?

Speaker 3 (28:36):
So with the kids, I did a lot again bit
of research, and there's a support group on Facebook as well,
so I kind of asked all the women in there
how they dealt with their kids. And there's quite a
few children's books about and so with the kids, So
they were three and five when we started this, and

(29:02):
waited until I was pregnant because I thought it's with
their ages. If they were older, I would have explained
it probably prior. With their age, it's too big a concept.
So they when we started, when I got pregnant, there
were three and five. They're four and six now, and
so I wanted to make sure it was all going ahead.

(29:23):
And obviously I think you mentioned babies and they could
go into school and like mom's having a baby and
I wouldn't even be pregnant, So I kind of we
kind of didn't do it that way. So wait till
I was pregnant. Weaight, I's got nine weeks and things
were looking good and stuff, and got two books. You
can kind of go different routes with the kid's side.
They do these lovely like the kangaroo pouch. I think

(29:44):
it's one of them, and about how you know you
use your pouch to throw a baby for another family
and whatever, But I personally don't particularly like going that
way out more factual, you know, like the actual like
you know, everything's got the real names for it and whatever.
And so there was a book ex Education book for
Children of that age group, but it folk or it

(30:04):
was a broader one. It was kind of like basically,
what do you need to have a baby? And it
was three things explained. You need egg, sperm, and a
uters and they were the words used, and it was
kind of gender neutral, like so you know, kind of
went into like some people have elements of these and
some people don't. Most males don't have uters or the egg,

(30:25):
and that's how I explained. I was like, so, you know,
Will and Nigel got married and their family and they
want to have a baby. I'm like, well, what what
do you think they need help with? And then Finn,
particularly the five year old, was like, oh, they need
the uters in the egg and I was like, yeah,
so another lady is going to help them with the egg.
And I'm really good at growing babies. I grew you guys.
Do you think I should help them? And it was

(30:47):
really really funny. Mats were just looking at them kind
of you know, waiting for the questions or whatever, and
they both went yeah obviously, but if as if I say,
I was like, oh, can I pop? I might pop
the shop because my friend is sick, and I'll write
them some food because they have no they have no preconceptions.
They're like, your friend needs help, why wouldn't you help them?

(31:07):
It's like, well why, And I kind of a few
times was like are you sure? Now you know and
it won't be our baby. Mammy will grow it and
you know you'll see my belly and it will be
our special friend. But you know it's not brother or sister.
It's nothing. And they went it was you like they're
getting annoyed at me. They're like yeah. And the pregnancy.
Every now and then I'll be like, whose baby is it?
They nearly roll their eyes, going Will and Nigel's yeah,

(31:32):
Camart at one point and I was quite heavily pregnant
and someone goes to Finn, the five year old. He goaes, oh,
you gonna have a little brother or sister soon and
he went no. I was like, oh, you have to explain,
Finn and he was like, oh, it's our friend's baby.
Always like I'm a stargish, like.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
You know how great?

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Like even no, like he could have got a flight
the older brother that really doesn't want another brother.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah exactly, but probably thinking that child and to not
like a woman's clearly about the path.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
I'm loving this for so many reasons, and one of
them is oh and kind of on another topic, but
I look at how we are educating our teens and
you know, kids around things like consent, and we say, oh, here's.

Speaker 6 (32:25):
A cup of tea and here's a milkshake, and you know,
and I just think, you know, of course our boys
are confused or you know, not understanding this.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
Emotional depths to even look past the layers like.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
We don't need you know, and even look, I would
say the kangaroo pouch. That is lovely, but why not
why can't we You've just explained it so beautifully, just
quite frankly say to the kids, look, we need three things.
This is how maybe I didn't.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
Even have to go in anything about I think at
one point that goes, oh how does the egg and
the sperm get into you? And I like all the
doctor puts it into me like oh okay, which is true. Yeah,
then we don't have you know, you don't have do
anything inappropriate or you know, like talk them through things
are not ready to talk through yet.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
The doctor does it.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah endiful?

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah, yeah, no, I love.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
I love what you've done there, and I think there's
a great lesson for explaining so many things that go
on in life, just honesty and transparency and this is
out Obey. Can you explain to me what it was
like the day that you had baby joints?

Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yeah? It was, yeah, one of the best days of
my life. Actually, I have to say we had a
bit of drama beforehand. Christmas morning, I was only thirty
two plus three for two weeks and three days, and
my waters broke and started leaking. First, I wasn't like
a dramatic and I was like, something's not quite right,

(34:04):
and so open Stanta presents and everything and kind of
was like not right. Rang the hospital and explained and
they're like, you're gonna have to come up. I was like, yeah,
no problem. They said, look sometimes these happened like no stress.
I had no contractions or anything like that. So I
was like, yeah, no, fine, And this about eight thirty
in the morning. So rang Will and Nigel and I
was like, Hi, Happy Christmas, and they're like, what's wrong.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
You're too close at this point.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
Yeah, yeah, there's literally like seven houses down. They were
staying at one of their mom's houses. And I was like, no,
no panic or anything like that. And you know, I'm
trying to be all came and see the things, but
this is happening, and we've happed the hospital to get
checked out, blah blah blah, and they're like, yeah, no problem.
I think Nigel was literally about to leave for a run.
He was in full sports gear and and they're like, yeah,

(34:50):
we'll be there in two minutes. Jump the car and
I was like, yeah, take your time, like get dressed,
don't rush, no, no panic. And then literally about two
minutes later, proper water's gone, and I sent the message
going okay, sooner rather than later, we need to go now,
and they're like, okay, perfect, pick me up and luckily
we're so close to the hospital. Was like three months later,
went in and checked in and the lovely midwife that

(35:15):
was there she was like and I was like, oh,
I brought up my pet or whatever you know, to test,
you know, to make sure that niatic fluid. And by
the time I'd walked in, I was soaked through like
the parts I was wearing. So I walked in she
was like sure, yeah, we don't need to test anything
like getting Yeah, like okay, let's see what's actually happening here.
And we didn't actually realize this that there's no nick

(35:35):
you in warn of the hospital. They won't they can't
care for babies born onder thirty four weeks of gestation,
which I didn't realize. So then immediately talk went to
where will be transferred to? So I got my steroid shots,
first steroid shot to mature the baby's lungs, and they
started bringing the hospital to see where I could be
going to, and we got a bed in July. She

(35:57):
was lucky. And then we were like, okay, you know,
how does that work with the ambulance and they're like no, no,
you're being air lifted out. I was like sorry, like
this is very dramatic, and they're like, well and it
could all be fine or things. You know, we need
to make sure you're in a place. And I think
the three of us just let myself in time. Mat
was at home and we'll just look at each other,

(36:19):
going okay, and probably we had a beautiful, beautiful doctor
up there. What's the word O B y G. And
he was really reassuring, and I kind of asked the
question because again, I just want to be factual. I
was like not, I don't want to be dramatic. Everyone's can,

(36:39):
but are we looking at a last scenario? Are we
looking at you know what you know? Or he goes
look one hundred percent. And the baby was measuring massive,
Like we joked about like this is the big it's
definitely their genetics because I had small babies and I
was like, okay, I'm not pushing this one out. So

(37:00):
and because baby was measuring big though, funnily enough, it
was a worry. And then it turned into a positive.
They're like, all the scans are looking good. You know,
baby might need help, that's fine, but you know, as
long as everything goes to track, we're fine. So that
was fine. And then so the dad went off to
pack a bag and grab some stuff from my house
and my poor family is at home Matts starting to
cook the Christmas dinner and I'm off there. But and

(37:22):
then literally it moved really quickly. Half an hour later
they go, now we've got the bed, We've got to
go now. So I'm ringing Will and Nigel being like, okay,
you don't have time to do this. You need because
they had to drive up behind us. I was like,
nothing's actually happening with my body, but they are airlifting
me now, So that was all a bit of excitement,
but yeah, pains started a little bit, and because the

(37:43):
waters are broken, they didn't want to give me any
medication to stop it. So then I got Geelong ended
up staying there for eight nights, which I think the
body is just amazing. I didn't know any of this.
I thought, if your water's broke, baby's coming out, like.
I didn't think you can just sit there and leak
so as long as like so, I was just on
antiotics on a trip twice a day and then made

(38:05):
it thirty four weeks, so they said, okay, you can
go home. So we're like yes, because and of course
COVID was exploding and Geelong Hospital wouldn't guarantee that both
dads could attend the birth, so they're like, not COVID's rampant,
blah blah blah, And that was probably the biggest stress
of it all. We were quite comfortable that, you know,
baby was healthy, I was healthy, everything's fine, but we

(38:27):
didn't want one of the dads to have to miss it.
And then at one point they're like, all will compromise
and what they can do is one dad can be
in at a time, and I was like, so what's
the other one doing sitting in the care like, Oh,
it's your turn. She's crowning like yeah, no, high fiving
each other going past in the hallway like that's ridiculous.
So it was kind of and the midwives are bargeous.

(38:49):
And then we got a doctor, female doctor, and she
was like, nah, this is ridiculous, and she went to
bat for us and got the exemption. So that made
us feel so much better because just to know that
they could both be there and I labor super quick,
so I was like, it's not going to be a
twenty hour process, like it's going to be. If it
goes the same as mine two, one of you's going
to miss it. There's not even time to change if

(39:11):
we did do it that way. So that was really reassuring,
and mentally that was amazing because that was the biggest stress.
We were like, well, who's going to be here, who
can't be here? Blah blah. So that was really canned us.
I really really appreciated the care we got there in
July and it was amazing. But yeah, come thirty four
weeks was a Sunday morning and all the midwives were
like ready for us. I was the first to be

(39:32):
monitored and they had my medication ready to go home,
my file and the dads can pick me up and
only once a lot in so Nigel ran in and
grabbed my bags. It was like we were doing a
runner from the hospital. It was like just drive straight
home so if anything happens, you're close to the hospital.
So did that, got home and lasted about three days.
I'm bad rest at home and then yeah, then labor

(39:55):
started off into the hospital and again we hadn't the
full exemption because the hospital wouldn't commit because of COVID.
We got home to Warnable and it was rife. It
was the first time Warnable had been hit, so everyone
was really super cautious so they wouldn't put in writing
that we could have both the debts. So that was
that was our biggest stress before Yeah, then we not
getting in. But then was the middle of the night.

(40:17):
So that's the hospital around four point thirty in the morning,
and the poor security guard before man, he was like, well,
there's only one support personal outing and I just went
I'm a surrogate. They're both the dads, and I think
he just went okay. I was that man is going
to argue with the woman at labor.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Like, none that want to live until the next day
are going.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
To Afterwards, I was like, the poor man, at least
he made an effort, but he was not going to
step up, Like no, no, one of these outside. So
and that was the only time anyone said anything after
that that. Midwives were just amazing. They didn't even mention
one of the guys leaving and the obstration we had.
Matt was really supportive of our team, and we was

(41:05):
just pure luck he was on that night, so he
came in and we're like, oh, yes, like we have you.
So that made all the difference then, Yeah, and yeah,
I got to hospital four thirteen. Baby Jones was born
at six am, so it was pretty speedy. Yeah, but
it was good. He was asking, I was asking the
dads afterwards. I was like, how do you think it went?

(41:26):
Like theres no reference, there was people screaming down the hall.
Weren't that bad? So I was like, no, it's fine.
It was. I don't know if it was third labor
or what. It wasn't slight labored really quickly, so quite
intense and I don't have any time for pain relief,
and and I'd warned the boys about that, and I
was like, what really bothers me sometimes is some of

(41:48):
the medical staff don't take you seriously in the sense
that they're like, no, you've got time, and I'm like,
I don't, I promise, I don't like it's coming, and
they're like yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah. Kind of went down,
and then the abstraction was in and the the midwives
are going to get something. I can't remember what they're doing,
but it was kind of like, Okay, I'm gonna check

(42:09):
you out and he was like okay, And I missed
all this. I was in my own world. But one
of the dads had to pressed the emergency button to
get support because the baby's head was kind of coming out.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
It's happening, I told you.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
But but that was fine. It was that was a
really beautiful experience. And baby went on my chest and
the boys came over to have their hands on Jones
and yeah, it was just amazing. It was just so
and it felt like their baby. Instantly, I just goes,
oh my god, you're dad's or something like that, and
I was like, there's your baby, and I can't remember

(42:44):
which one thean was. I was like, oh, do you
want to know his name. I was like, oh my god, yes,
and he was like Jones and I was like, oh,
I love it and yeah, and we had him midwife
with us then and she was just absolutely amazing, Like
we swapped numbers because he really bonds. Don't show with
those people that are there.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
They are gifts, aren't they.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Yeah, And they just get you through those hard things
in life. And and they kept us all together in
the birth suite for I think six or seven hours.
It didn't feel like that, but like all day so
that because the counseling and everything were like, okay, well
really make sure that you stay near the baby, just
for your hormones to settle, just because you mentally could

(43:27):
be fine, but your body will be like whereas, yeah,
that's right. It's like it's a kind of an adrenaline thing. Really,
the baby's missing, do you know, so you have to
keep her here kind of close stuff and.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
With those instincts there.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
I mean, I was going to ask about, you know,
once babies delive it, you know, is it going straight
into their arms? But you've said that straight onto your chest.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
But well, we talked, we talked about that. I was like,
I'd like it to go straight to your arms, but
I kind of made the joke. I was like, but
it's tethered to me, and this.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Is really for a little bit longer.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
Two dads were like, what do you mean, and I
was like, you know, they have bilitical cord and they
were sent and they were like what this is now
before real early day. Yeah, and their faces they were like, okay,
a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
To me, just a little bit longer.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Yeah, And even then the wait, they were like okay.
I was like, no, it's okay, it's just a bit sore,
it's fine. And then one of the dads cut the cord.
And they were very very good at really constantly checking
on me, so like they wanted them to be holding
the baby doing skin to skin. They're like, oh, do
you want to hold again? And I'm like no, no, wait,

(44:46):
my turn. So it's kind of just basically the three
of us like passing the baby around. It was just
so beautiful to see them become dads and FaceTime their
family and friends was probably one of the best things.
I just remember lying in the bed and they were
there sitting on the chairs and they're facetiming everyone and
it was just such joy to hear and to see
them be so happy, and to see all their family
and friends, and oh, genuinely one of the most uplifting experiences

(45:08):
I've ever had.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
I said at the very very beginning, you know, any
baby that is born, it's such a beautiful, beautiful thing.
Some babies are born and then there is this burst
of love. Now, by chance, i'd only just started to
get to know the boys, and I think I just
started to get to know you at the gym. But
I remember being, yeah, oh, I have to talk to

(45:31):
this woman, you know, I had, And then I was like,
keep it cool, Kate, keep it cool. There will be
a time for everything here. But when Jones was born,
Warnabull is a regional city, so it's not all overly large,
but it's big enough, and there was a burst of love.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
I can't I can't describe it any other way.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
So to hear that you had, you know, maybe six
to seven hours, just the three of you, and for
you to be there, I mean, I I get emotional
thinking about this gift that you have given.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Like you have You've not.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Just changed two men's lives that love each other so much,
You've given this gift to an extended family and to friends,
and you know.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
Yeah, that's a big part to being a surrogate that
they say, is like you're not just making a family,
You're making an extended family. Like I know the grandparents,
I know the cousins, and little Jones's cousins are best
friends with white kids, and I just love all the connections.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So, I mean, your body definitely starts
to go, all right, well, we need to make milk now,
and we need.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
To do both.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
And again I'm guessing that that was part of the
conversation too, like.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Yes, you tell me, well feed and some dawns and whatever.
And again another thing, I feel the surrogacy changed a
lot of some negatives and positives in the sense that
I was always rubbish at breastfeeding my own too, like
just didn't I don't know, I didn't seem to produce
that much, or midwife thought I did, but it wasn't
coming out or whatever the reasons. And I remember and
was one of the reasons for my post Nate. I

(47:14):
think I just remember such a thing, such a feeling,
a failure.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
It's awful.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
Yeah, it is so important, but if it doesn't work.
It doesn't work, do you know what I mean? Move on?
But I really sewed on that. But in surrogacy it
was a bonus because my milk didn't come in. Yes,
I just literally wore a sports bra for two days.
Didn't you have to take the tablet and just spiced them? Yeah?
And yeah, it didn't happen. So I didn't have to
deal with that, didn't have to deal with drying up

(47:38):
the milk like that so easy.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Throughout the whole process. What is the one thing that
you had wish that you had known that you didn't know?
So if you look back on it now and you're saying, oh,
I really wish i'd known.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
I don't think there's actually anything in the sense that
I reckon. We've talked about this. If there was a
textbook case for how sergacy should go, it was this.
We just everything and there was bumps in the road.
But like as in like things you know went wrong
or you know medically, or dealing with some of the
medical staff is a bit difficult and stuff like that.

(48:16):
But when you dealt with probably people are on one
to one like they couldn't have been nicer, couldn't have
done more for us. So the thing is the thing
I wish i'd known that I would change. I think
it was pretty perfect the way we did it. I
found them to be so supportive. I found nothing but benefitsergy.
I feel like I fell in love with my husband
more because he was just so amazing to be doing

(48:37):
this with me. And it was such a good experience
for my kids to see kindness and action. How families are,
you know, so different, they come out in different ways,
and you know, if you can help, you should help.
And people's responses, people I don't even know were like
Matt even after birth, got a phone call from of
the guys at the footy club being like, may well
done whatever. I'm just like, it's so beautiful. You think

(48:59):
there is people out there was that are negative or whatever,
but overall people are nice and people were blown away
by it and it was just so lovely to be.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Part of that kindness in action. It still feels like
much more than that, but kindness in action is something
beautiful now, joines. So he was born December January years Yeah,
you made it. You know, he's starting to very alert,

(49:29):
he's starting to move around a bit, you know, he's
starting to explore.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
The world was just getting big.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Yeah, yeah, what what's the relationship look like now? What?

Speaker 2 (49:38):
And what do you hope for the future? I guess yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
And again this can be a sticking point. I think
if people don't discuss it. I think a lot of times,
if you hear of stories going bad, it's because you know,
the journey didn't and the way some people wanted to
end or whatnot. But for us, we always said we're
friends first and foremost and that relationship. I love my
friends kids, and I love Jones. And but I would

(50:04):
say it definitely isn't over attachment. I'd feel most it's
like he's a nephew maybe, do you know it's in
like you know, though my brother sends me pictures of
his daughter, I'm like, oh, you know, how's the sleep
last night? How is whatever?

Speaker 2 (50:20):
But definitely call you for advice or anything like yeah,
so there's.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
I don't know, yes, like mine never slept. Yeah, I'm like, no,
ring someone else. I mean, I'm more than happy as
we talk about parenting, do you know what I mean? Yeah,
very much. No. And and even it's funny like even
in the intro you were doing there, it's kind of
sometimes correcting people. It's like, you know, being a mother.

(50:52):
It's like, oh, you're the mother or whatever. I'm like, no, no, no,
I'm very much not I'm not anything. I'm their friends.
I'm so you're it. But even I think we discussed
being a bit uncomfortable, like says so sometimes they say,
srogate mothers.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
I want to have a look.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
I want to look what I said, because wordage now
is so important and it's so important about everything we do.
So yeah, so Neva is a wife, a business woman
and a mother of three children.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
She has gifted a child to a world, to the world,
a child to Will and Nigel in the form of surrogacy.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
So it's the mother, the mother of three.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Three children, and you're a mother too, you know what.
That's more.

Speaker 6 (51:33):
I actually thought you had three kids.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Just a really good research and I don't know what
you're talking about. Yeah, but that's good to know. That's
good for us.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
All know you're the mother of two children and you're
a surrogacy to Jones and that that is enough.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
That is enough for us all.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
I think it's just really important.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
It is.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
Yeah, I think nowadays kind of or like I think
it just you don't want to it more so, I
don't particularly mind either way, but you don't want to
invalidate anyone in the sense that like, no, the baby
has two dads, or if it was a heterosexual couple,
that the mother wouldn't feel lessened, like yes, kind of
like yeah, are the kundry people like even, But it
depends on every CERG and every team, like some people

(52:20):
call them the Tommy mummies and b like.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Like you know, after a KFC, you could probably call
me a Tammy mummy too.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
So like I think it just depends what you're comfortable with. Yeah,
And because it's even interesting legally, currently Jones is my
child still because we're still waiting to do the parent
ad order. So on the birth sert the current birth
search before we change it, Matt's actually the father, I'm
the mother, and the siblings that Finn and maybe are

(52:52):
Jones's siblings, and then you go to the legal process
and they reissue his proper birth sert and Will and
Nigela followers and John's is just the only child on
that I have.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
So many issues with I have.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
And if that's not to add danger you know zone
in itself, you know, so for whatever reason. You know,
what if the dad's or the couple or whatever goes Actually,
you know what, you know, this puppy hasn't suited us.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
We're just going to thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
And so legally they could do that, because legally at
the moment are out.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
I mean, they're not ever going to do that. I
was talking about this in terms of.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
What even even for them, like what's the rest that
I turn around and I.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Want my baby? I want my baby?

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Comment, Well, why that makes no sense to me and
gets me a bit you know, you know, rallowed up
a little bit is because I think of all the
hoops legally that you've had to go through before you
were even embryo was implanted in you.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
More thing that should be there should be a process
in place for that to be covered. Like yeah, that
that that actually was probably one of my biggest things
and what bothered me as well, even though obviously Matt
was a huge sport part of this journey, he has
no business being on that birth shart whatever about okay, physically.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
I mean, did he rub your toes and faded times?
Did he get you.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Something? Give me peace of quiyers at least even if
maybe one of the dads could go on or I
don't know, there has to be a better process. There's
no like, even from a feminist point of view, I'm like,
very Matt should not be on that bort sart like,
it's not his baby, it's actually Matt.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
He would have enjoyed that beer down at the pub.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
With it was yeah, job, yeah, you get all the kudos.
And if you ask him, his favorite favorite part of
the surrogacy was telling people I was pregnant and it
wasn't his, Like he just thought it was the funniest
thing and it was so cringey. I'm like, I have
to leave for this part, like tell them when to
go to the toilet or something because you're like, oh,

(55:07):
he's pregnant again. They go, oh, wow, I thought you
weren't having any morning. He goes, yeah, or not, it's
not mine. And then I'd like stop doing that to people,
and he's like, ah, she's a.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
You know, I've enjoyed this and apologies to those that
think we've should have had a very high brow conversation
about surgery, but this is just the only way to
move through the world.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Yeah, I think we I mean, you take it very seriously,
you've no choice. But at the end of the day,
it's a positive experience. It's a beautiful thing to be doing.
And if everyone is on board and on the same
opinions and feelings, then it's just nothing but goodness.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
To sit back at night.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
Sometimes.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Ago, Yeah, I did a really good thing.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
I have to say. I think it's been a huge
confidence booster as well. I feel like, oh my god,
I've done something really sure, and so I feel empowered
by it. I feel like, Wow, if I do nothing
else except survive, I've done a good thing I have.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Do you know what the moment that you said my
kids were able to see kindness in action, I had goosebumps.
I just thought, is this not we hope for for
any of our children, that a life well lived is
how you've treated others throughout your own journey.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Yeah, everyone's so different nowadays and that's accepted and it
should be. And yeah, yeah, it's not a big deal
if you don't make it a big deal. I think
sometimes do your kids just accept you know, it's a
nice thing.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
And if we used to do something when we first
started this podcast and then we kind of dropped it
off and then I just thought I might bring it
back because we're launching on iHeartRadio and all.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
These you know, I mean Sydney and all these things.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
But you know, I used to say, you know, when
we talk about these women of influence, I'd say, she
is dot dot dot.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
So you know, we had Lana Wilkinson, who was our
very first.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Woman. You know, I think she was I am. You know,
she is strong. When you think about yourself, neive, like
what would your.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Dot dot dot is? So if I say to you,
she is.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
I think kind. I think no one's perfect. I don't
I mess up a lot, But I think at the
end of the day, if you approach everything and everyone
with a bit of kindness, bit of understanding, things will
be a lot smoother in life. Just get on with it.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
And I'm all right that down. I will just add
she is a gift. I just think you are a
gift and a gift that you've done and we don't know.
And this is the crazy.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Thing, like I think I get to do these podcasts,
these these podcast.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
I get to in these women.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Now we don't know each other that well, and we've
spent these beautiful hours together. The personal question I mean,
I didn't ask about sex, by the way, I didn't.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
Ask that, but shove a quick sex question at the end.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
No, I think we'll leave it. We'll leave, We'll leave.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
I get Hey, you're still I had sex throughout my pregnancy,
so I'm certain you did.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure that we covered everything.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
And you know what we're going to do, Neve is
we're releasing your episode of the Women of Influence podcast
and we've never done this before, but your story is
too special not to We're going to do a follow
up episode that's going to drop tomorrow, and it is
the boys because I would love to hear from Will

(58:46):
and from Nigel about their experience, because I'm imagining, after
hearing your story today, what I really want to know
from them is, so they're at this marathon and they've
got this they have new running shoes on, because they
would have new flash runners, like let's.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
They were running that year. They supporting the crew.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Yeah, and you know this woman who's a friend, you know,
and you know kind of casually comes up and says
so spoken spoken my hobby and I googled it, found
it on TikTok, and.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Look, I think I'm in the girl Baby for it.

Speaker 4 (59:21):
You know, like.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
That's obviously not how it came.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Out or how it but I imagine the emotion.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
I love it still TikTok.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
I'm still at the researching on TikTok, Like you know
what I'm going to be doing this afternoon, Like.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
How do I spell that again?

Speaker 3 (59:41):
You know, they're they're all American ones, so that's a
different process. They're all getting paid and stuff. I mean still, like, hey,
you know what you just hit process wise, I mean,
like Australia, you.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Could be an influencer on TikTok right now you don't
even know it. You could be the Australian surrogacy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
This is the extent of my celebrity status living.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Heyneve, thank you again for joining us on the podcast.
So I've just just loved this and I can't thank
you enough.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
So thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
It's really wonderful. Thanks for asking me.