October 18, 2023 • 33 mins
It feels like there has been a sudden increase in the number of people getting diagnosed with ADHD. But is that really the case? Matilda Boseley has written a book about her experience of getting diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. She joins Sam Wood to discuss her new book The Year I Met My Brain.   Â
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Good everyone, Sam Wood here, Welcome to another episode of
the wood Life. This is going to sound crazy because
I keep saying, oh my god, this is my wife Luck.
And I was joking about this to Snage literally as
we're driving to the studio, because she said, who have
you got on the podcast today? And I said, I've
got this expert at ADHD and Snage and you both
have ADHD and diagnosed not. Sam says, I feel like
(00:28):
I'm going to get a deeper understanding and I think
you will too. Going to get into that with the
incredible material to Boseley, who's an award winning journalist, social
media reporter and just brilliant with almost any topic that
she covers, from current affairs to of course this topic,
and she actually has ADHD herself. It really came to
(00:49):
the surface during COVID and she's written an incredible book.
We're going to get into that, and then we're going
to talk a little bit of AMS. So we are
really going into some into some areas that are not
myrio of expert, but that's what we're here for to
tackle the hard challenges and learn together. That's all coming
up next on the Woodlfe. Matilda Bosley. Welcome to the
(01:33):
WOODLFE and thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
So I'm just going to give people bit of a
background because you are an award winning journalist, social media
reporter for The Guardian. You're a TikTok instagram sensation and
I don't mean that lightly, you genuinely are. And you're
sitting in front of me with this book with the
most Wonderful name, which is The Year I Met My Brain,
which is a book that shines the light. And I'm
(01:57):
sure you're going to dive into with us the very
misunder often misunderstood topic of adult ADHD. Let's start at
the very beginning. What is ADHD and how did the
book come about?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, the question of what is ADHD is one of
those ones where it's like, well, the short answer is.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
A I don't have to give me the short to say.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
The long answer is kind of the entirety of the
book and then sort of the one hundred pages that
then got cut out. It's a neurodevelopmental condition, so it's
a different, something different happening in the brain that means
people have a more difficult time generally with attention and
(02:38):
where they focus their intention as well as quite often
hyperactivity and impulsivity.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So it's something that a lot of people are born with.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Basically, some people grow out of it as they age.
A lot of people carry it, Yeah, a lot of
people carry it all the way into adulthood because you
just usually think of it as childhood can because I
think a lot of the time, yeah, we talk about
it in terms of classrooms and kids sitting still and
stuff like that. But what we're finding out more and
(03:08):
more and more is the sheer number of people that
carry it with them their entire lives.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I can't help but think back to I mean, I'm
forty three, so I was a school twenty five years ago.
It was quite rare for someone to be diagnosed with
ADHD then, and now I have little kids. It feels
like a third of the class has been labeled or
diagnosed or parents say we suspect or whatever it might be.
And they're very little, so it's probably early on in
(03:36):
the awareness phase. Has ADHD? Why has that happened?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
So what we know about ADHD is it's been actually
quite steady. The actual prevalence of people. So you know,
if you take a thousand people off the street, you
screen them all for ADHD. For the past four decades,
which is the last one we kind of started really caring.
We've seen that it's remarkable. It's around five point eight
percent of people, and it's around seven point two percent
(04:06):
of children and two point eight ish of adults. So
what has changed is the level of awareness that we
have around it. So previously we would only really think
of ADHD as the hyperactive can't sit still, can't you know,
get the work done, but also like bouncing around constantly
(04:28):
interrupting talking and stuff like that, and that's a decent
whack of people who have the condition. What we also
are much better at understanding now and are much better
at recognizing, is that there's also the inattentive presentation of ADHD,
which doesn't necessarily have hyperactivity and impulsivity involved that much
at all. So that isn't the class clown. It's the
(04:48):
kids sort of sitting in the corner quietly staring out
the window, getting distracted by the birds. And so we've
got a bigger recognition of those kids as well, which
is potentially by the time you reach s lot of
teenage and adult years, the majority of the people with
those cases have that presentation. We're also getting better at
(05:08):
recognizing the symptoms in girls because they also tend to
internalize their symptoms more as well as Yeah, as people grow,
But just in general, you know, I think it's not
so much that there didn't used to be as many
ADHD kids. It was that the ADHD kids were just
the bad kids that you didn't really bother with, or
just the ones that were a bit hopeless at school.
(05:29):
And you know, and I think there's was a lot
of people who you know, probably were really really smart
who just dropped out of academics or were pushed out
in a way because yeah, those needs weren't being catered to. Yeah,
it can be definitely a bit almost well, you know,
you look around, you're like, oh, it's everywhere nowadays. But
what it actually is a much more of a coarse
(05:51):
correction than some sort of you know, epidemic of little
inattentive children.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
You mentioned too, this underdiagnosis girls and whether it's even
carrot to Back when I was at school, it was
always like, ah, yeah, it's the crazy naughty boys. Yeah,
just they can't sit still boys so have to go
under the timeout corner or whatever. It might be, it
was very rarely the girls you spoke about. The two
(06:17):
different types, are boys more likely to be one and
girls the other? Or not necessarily?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, a little bit should I should actually clim there's
three different types. The third one is just the two
of them combined.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Right, so there's a hybrid.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, it's called yeah combined ADDYHUD, very original name. So
hyperactive impulsive, purely hyperactive impulsive tends to only be quite
young kids. So there are presentations rather than sort of subtypes,
because you can change throughout your life. It's not set
in stone, and once you see as people grow up,
they tend to lean towards more either combined or just
(06:52):
purely and attentive. Sometimes the hyperactive impulsive symptoms fall away
all together. We do know there is like a slight
there is slightly more chance of a girl having inattentive
type ADHD than combined or hyperactive. Not massive like sometimes
you hear people talk about inattentive ADHD almost as like.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
The girl version of the condition.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
It's not really that, but what we so, you know
they're slightly more inclined towards that type, which means they're
less likely to be diagnosed because that type just generally
is because it's harder to spot. And then we also
know that girls do tend to regardless of what presentation
they have, they tend to internalize their symptoms a bit more.
And this is one of those things it's really hard
(07:33):
to research, but from experts that I've spoken to, I
think the general sort of one of the general kind
of theories about it is like we actually, just as
a society, don't treat you know, loud, boisterous, constantly interrupting
girls as well as we might you know, or the confident,
(07:54):
you know, go get a boy. We view those very differently.
There's often quite high pressure on girls to be you know,
polite and caring and sweet, and it's not necessarily encouraging
the assertiveness or the absolutely say everything in class all
the time and subconsciously the way parents and teachers and
everyone raised them. So there's a potential that by the time,
(08:16):
you know, even you're six years old and you get
into a classroom for the first time, girls might already
have a keener sense of the consequences and also face
steeper consequences for that behavior.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
As parents, what are the best or most important things
to look out for if we're suspecting that our children
might have symptoms, and as adults, what are the things
that we should be looking for in ourselves.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
With parents, I think it is about paying attention to
the you know, the little clues and you know, maybe
they aren't something's going wrong with school. And to be clear,
it actually shares so many symptoms with so many other conditions,
like and just childhood.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Oh yeah, and this is I guess I think we're
some of this kept assuming comings from It's like do
they have that or are they just five? Yeah, you know,
and it's okay, like they're a five year old, Like
what are we we were expecting too much? Yeah, kids
are kids are going to play, kids are going to
be cookie, kids going to be curious. You know, they're
going to say the damned just things, you know, yeah, exactly.
Sometimes I think we want to back a label on
(09:18):
it straight away, and it's just like that's just a
kid being a kid.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
No, definitely, I mean, like even a kid not getting
enough sleep. Yeah, you know, sleep apnea could be you know, tiredness.
It mimics some of the symptoms in some way, so
you know, it's if the kids struggling to take note
not just of the sort of external factors, but also
(09:41):
their ability to focus and their ability for sort of
sitting down and doing stuff. And I think oftentimes parents
will be like, well, my kid can't be out of
actual because yeah, they're struggling at school or they're struggling this,
but they can play video games for hours and hours
and hours, or they can read a book so often,
you know, the little go oh they read a book
for you know, six hours on the weekend.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Like that's that's focused.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Understanding that well, ADHD attention deficit hyperactivity disorder just like
an awful name all round, because you don't have to
be hyperactive. No, yeah, just you don't have to be hyperactive.
And it's not so much a deficit in attention. Yeah,
we're taking out the two last two letters as well.
There's no letter is safe. It's not so much about
(10:21):
a deficit in attention. It's a deficit in the ability
to control where that attention is focused.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I love that. That's really important.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yeah, So a lot of people that HD will experience
something that's sort of colloquially termed hyper focus, where you
get so sucked in and like time and space, you know,
disappears and you put off peeing for four hours to
you know, keep playing, which you know, not speaking out
of personal experience, but and so not to let that
(10:49):
sort of get in the way. But also, yeah, just
to look at the overall patterns of attention with adults,
it can be really tricky because you've never known anything different.
So I used to be actually like very embarrassed about
how I found out. But now it's like the most
common story, which is COVID lockdown's happened. I just moved
out of home. Things were getting a bit harder. My
(11:12):
TikTok screen time just abomination levels awful, the worst you've
ever seen six hours plus, you know, watching so much TikTok,
And then the videos just kept papping up of like oh,
symptoms of adult ADHD or EHD and adults or ADHD
and women. I was like, oh my god, adults can
have ADHD or and so.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
That's really interesting. There is a perception out there that
it is just a kids thing, is there?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, you know what, maybe until I met Snage, I
might have thought that too. Well.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Sometimes I am like, how did I used to think
about ADHD? And I'm like I'm not sure I did.
I'm not sure I paid it any mind. I remember
actually in university I had googled it once because I
was like, maybe it is something's happening, And what came
up was just all the symptoms of, you know, has
trouble staying seated, has trouble playing quietly, And none of
(12:05):
that really related to me because it was all sort
of talking about kids. It's like, no, I'm not having
trouble staying seated, Like I want to pass my classes,
so I'm going to stay seated. And so it hadn't
really resonated with me, and I sort of let it go.
And then when people put that in terms of the
adult version of the symptoms. So and also to be clear,
everything is normal human experiences. It's kind of the degree,
(12:28):
the frequency, the intensity you feel them is what makes
it ADHD. But with the hyperactivity, what it can go
from is from you know, like physically being hyperactive to
you know, maybe in adults it's just you're constantly tapping
your feet and constantly like you know, tapping your fingers
against things and fiddling with things, and really the hyperactivity
is more a sense of kind of perpetual internal restlessness,
(12:52):
which I felt very much like. It was always so
hard for me to sort of sit down at the
end of the day and relax, like heaven forbid, you know,
you have to just trying to think about the things
to do and then unable to actually action getting those
things done. And so that was a big moment for
me realizing that that's what hyperactivity could look like, because
I resonated with that so much, as well as in
girls and adults as well. It can also express itself
(13:14):
more as hyper talkativeness or being hyper emotional, you know,
feeling things sort of on a kind of more of
a sea sory scale than the average person.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So at what age were you materiital when this is
all happening.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
If you don't so, I was twenty three, twenty three
or yeah, twenty two, got diagnosed just before my twenty
third birthday.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Was yeah, so saw it, and it was genuinely like these.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
People were just reaching into my deepest soul and pulling
out all the things that I was kind of ashamed
of and didn't even really want to admit and was
hoping that, you know, oh, maybe I'm just kind of
worse than everyone else at all of this like everyone
else can keep their life on track a bit, and
I'm just bad at doing it. And it was they
(13:58):
were listing off these things, and I kind of felt
seen in a way that my sort of cynical exterior
is hard to admit, but like made me realize I
was like lonely in a way I didn't ever even
realize before, like being that understood and clearly watched the
videos a bit too deeply. Somewhere in the algorithm, you know,
in some computer, they're like, oh my god, we're onto
(14:19):
a mind goldmine here. This woman's going to watch whatever
we put in front of her about this sends me
millions And so eventually my whole full year page was
just sort of consumed by them, and it was like,
it's getting too spooky.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I've got to talk to a doctor.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
So you went off to the doctor, got diagnosed nearly
twenty three. How did it all pan out?
Speaker 3 (14:37):
I think my psychologist who i'd spoken to, I'd been
speaking to previously.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I'd been diagnosed with anxiety before that.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Is there a connection? Oh yeah, h yeah, I did say.
I think it was four times the likelihooder having mental
health issues if you've got aut HD then not that's
the correlation of something.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, that sounds about right the citists. So yeah, depression, anxiety,
whole host of other mentis you were already.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Saying a psychologist for the anxiety.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, and was already medicative for the anxiety. It was
on anti anxiety meds. And I had spoke to her
about it. I think if she had even vaguely raised like, oh,
maybe thinking about bipolar almost because sometimes I'd just be
very flat and sometimes I'd be like ready, you know,
to go, and that never I had sort of looked
(15:26):
into it, and I just didn't really it didn't resonate
with me.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
It didn't.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
We went through some things, it didn't really resonate. But
then when I came to her and said, like, have
we thought about ADHD, Yeah, we went through the criteria
and sort of she was like, oh, yeah, got a
bit of a point, like in terms of you know,
the theory. Once once she sort of started asking me
about that. And then when I eventually went to the psychiatrist,
(15:49):
I was very lucky. Nowadays, it can be up to
a twelve thirteen, fourteen month wait. It's awful for adults especially,
but I got in maybe three or four, four or
five months, Yeah, answer questions, had this whole, big, long
diagnostic process, and by the end he sort of said, yeah,
it seems like you have ADHD and you've had it
(16:11):
since you were a child.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I think your story is fascinating, and your stories obviously
become a story with the book take us through the
journey in a nutshell.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, so it's it's I've tried to pitch it as
a travel companion, so it's sort of my findings as
I've gone along.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
So they feel like they're in real time with you
almost as they Yeah, and to.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
A certain degree very much.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Well so, so for the first year after I was diagnosed,
I kind of I got the diagnosis, I got some medication.
I was like, good done, Okay, going to be you
know normal. I'm gonna like, I'm going to fix myself.
I'm going to cure my ADHD. Basically it's kind of
what I assumed, you know, and that was you know,
not the case and also not how anything works. And
then eventually sort of have to sort of stumbling through
(16:55):
just being you know, just sort of thinking of myself
as like clinically forgetful and not really understanding the condition
much more. I was yet wanting to realize that it's like,
I need to buckle down, and like, you know, the
medications helped me at work a lot, It's helped, you know,
a lot with anxiety, but like kind of everything in
my life is still the kind of messy situation it is.
(17:15):
So I wanted to, yeah, properly buckle down and actually
learn what it's about. And then remembered that I'm a writer,
so sheould probably also bring people with me on the journey.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
And on a scale of one to ten, with that
buckling down, how far along the spectrum do you feel
that you've moved from a remembering organization perspective or anything
else that you want to throw in there.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
I think where the change has really come has been
in my self esteem and my perception of self. So
in terms of where I'm at, it was interesting. So
I have a couple of chapters about how to live
with and it's going through the terrible news you get
when you get ADHD, which is at the four ways
that you can help your ADHD symptoms are to go
(18:04):
to therapy, exercise, eat well, and sleep well. Devastating horrible news.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So going through what else.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Yeah, I was like, oh, there has there has to
be there has to be a better way.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I does see here do you come up? Is that?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Which?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You know we've all heard those. I remember I've promoted those.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It's the worst and it's true.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Unfortunately, so the days that i'm you know, the times
where things are going really well and I'm sleeping well
and eating well and exercising and all of that, a
lot of the stuff comes more easily, and sort of
a talk through the chapters and then I have, you know,
one a lot of life hacks and thinking about how
I basically I set out for one chapter to be
like I'm going to become for science, you know, the ADHD,
(18:52):
you know, super superperson, Like I'm going to go to
all the stuff and I'm going to fix my own
life and.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And millions of other a little benefit.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah, And I was like, well, I can't motivate it
to do it for myself, but I can maybe motivate
it to do it for the book. And turns out no,
I couldn't, And that I think ended up being a
lot more useful to talk about, like you can try
really hard, and you know, with ADHD you're going to
try so many new things but it's hard to keep
things in a routine. That's literally like the whole thing.
The best way to not have ADHD is to not
(19:23):
have adh you know. The best way to cure your
ADHD is to do all the things that you could
only really do if you could cure your ADHD. It's
a bit of a you know, it's a bit of
a it can be definitely, But what I kind of
realized to was the end is like it's not even
really about like, Okay, I need to you know, have
this and get to the train on time every single
time and never be late or never do this or
(19:44):
you know, make sure I'm eating healthy and keep the
house clean.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
It's about one.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Forgiving myself when I don't and too like realizing what
battles like I actually need to fight. You know, there's
there's things that are there's things that with real world consequence,
like getting to work late, so that's okay, that has
to be a priority. There's things that make me a
better person, you know in terms of you know, making
sure that I'm pulling my weight around the house for
my partner and things like that. But there's things like
(20:10):
it would be great to have a great skincare routine.
If I'm in a busy period, if things aren't going
as well, there's no one's at like the pearly gates
being like, mate, you didn't tone, you know, you didn't moisturize.
You know, you left the washing in the in the
washing machine and it got a bit milled you and
you had to wash it again.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Like that's actually fine. It's you know, we moralize so much.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
And I think that's one of the really hard things
about ADHD, which is the things that makes you bad
at is the things that we as a society like
to assume makes you a bad person. You know, it's
difficult to reply to people, It's difficult to get places
on time. It's sometimes it's difficult to remember to text
people happy birthdays and things like that, and realizing that, okay,
well I can get better and I can work towards
(20:51):
getting better at those things because I want to help
out the people around me. I want to live this life.
I don't have to do it just because like I'm
a terrible person if I don't.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I think one thing.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
That's weird to think about with ADHD is for a
lot of people people with ad actually don't perceive time
quite in the same way. So you know, it's it's here,
I need to work hard, because if I work hard,
then I'm going to get this pay rise in a
month's time, you know. And most people, if it's a
pay rise in a month's time, will be more motivated
to work hard than it's like, oh well in two
(21:22):
years time, so the reward diminishes the further away in
time it is for ADHD people that is a much
more drastic curve. Is one way that it's sort of
one theory. In one way it's described so you know,
the immediate gratification or immediate consequences, you know, time things
sort of exist in the now or later. So I'll
(21:43):
be you know, just pottering along and pottering a long
and pottering and then panic and then oh my god,
it's right now and we need to get everything done,
whereas you know, my partner will be much more like, okay,
there's an hour and then there's maybe half aney, you know,
and going.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Through moving in that direction, and it is the.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Same, you know, even things like the bin. You know,
like he'll look at a bin and when it's like
eighty percent full, he'll be like cool, time to take
out the bin, and I will look at the bin
and it will be like one hundred and ten percent full,
like it needs to.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Get to count.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Yeah, well, because it's like, well it's cold outside. First
of all, I don't want to do it. It's gonna
be boring. And also I've already forgotten about it because
I've moved on to the next thing. So until like
the bin, I'm like shoving things in, like cramming it.
Like that's when my brain goes like, oh, it's probably
time to take it the bin. But what ends up
happening is Okay, well, if he sees it at eighty percent,
he's going to take it out every single time. And
then yeah, it's an interesting one when it comes to relationships,
(22:34):
and it's just like with my partner and I and
I talk about it in there is just like being
able to talk about it and mention it through because
like for me, because I had so much guilt growing
up about just like well, I can't keep this siding
and I can't and I'm not helping other people around
the house. And you know that my parents didn't know.
They're like the most loving, generous people, but even they,
(22:54):
you know, didn't know that it wasn't me just choosing
not to do the stuff. It's that I've forgotten, So
be like, you know, come on like a your wait,
like do this. And so if Anthony gets to the
point where he's like, oh, could you tidy this? I
get so defensive like, oh my god, I've already failed.
It's already bad. I've become the bad person. And then
I'll get super defensive as well. So it was interesting
of us like talking about it and finding ways of yeah,
(23:18):
to kind of work around that, because so much of
ADHD is just the kind of self esteem and trauma
that I.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Mean, the relationship thing is interesting from my own selfish
point of view, but the relationship obviously that it's how
to help you with your relationship with yourself. What's one
just to leave our listeners with and then the rest
is up to them to go and buy the book.
What's one revelation or epiphany that you had that without
doing the process of writing the book, you don't think
(23:45):
you would have had about ADHD?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yeah, completely, So I think I know, like straight off
about what it is, which has been Yeah, the most
life changing bit of it, which is that when I
went into it I kind of without even thinking, like
I assume that the biggest problem ADHD was causing in
my life was that I couldn't keep track of things,
or I couldn't keep things tidy, or I couldn't keep
(24:07):
a diary, and that was, yeah, going to be the
main things to fix. But what I actually found was
the process of getting diagnosed was yeah, re looking at
my life, revisiting all those moments that I was hard
on myself and I blamed myself and I thought I
was worse, and I thought I was just a bad
person who was pretending to be good because I couldn't
(24:28):
remember to do these things and going back and forgiving
myself for a lot of that and going through and
just rebuilding my self esteem from the ground up and
being like, no, this was that I was just a
kid who was coping, or I was a teenager who
was doing their best. And you know, that's that's one
(24:48):
of the just like weird and wild things about ADHD,
which is like like the two most effective medications for
it are you know, highly regulated stimulant potential and fed
means and self forgiveness and like it's just a lover,
which you know, kind of just goes into the constantly
bizarre world of ADHD that it comes with living with it.
(25:10):
But he genuinely was so and that's been the most
important thing for me in terms of like living with ADHD.
I no longer even really think about curing it, but
you know, or wanting to not have it, but just
living to learning to forgive myself and you know, everything
else is kind of a bonus.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
That is so beautiful, by the way, and that was
a really fascinating chat on again a topic that I
don't I really should know more about because it absolutely
impacts two people that I love dearly, and I'm a
better person for hearing it. So thanks so much for
coming in.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Thank you so much. Also, if you have ADHD and
you can't read a book, it's an audiobook.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I can't bloody read a book.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
There you go. I love that and I'm going to
get the book for Abie and the audiobook message.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Thank you so much, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Okay, Matilda, what a what a beautiful human being. And
it was actually just really interesting to hear Matilda talk
about it from an empathy perspective, a self awareness perspective,
a self love perspective, not being so hard on a
self because I think sometimes as parents we're so focused
on making our children more resilient. I want to have
(26:26):
conversations with Edie like I know I could have done
things better, for example, dot dot dot, and I think
I do feel like I would just be a much
better support telling her to not be so hard on it.
You know, I actually think telling her that the reality
is life's not really going to give you a hug
about it, and you just need to deal with these
(26:47):
things because that's what prepares you better for being an adult.
After hearing Matilda and reflecting on it, you know, just
for the last few minutes, probably just makes a tough
situation worse. Doesn't help. I might feel better, but it's
not about me, and I think as a father still
with three daughters to raise, it's a really important recognition
(27:09):
for me as I want to make sure I learn
from my mistakes and continue to become a better father.
But we're going to go from talking about one topic
that I know not very much about to another one
that I don't know very much about, which is Sam,
why are you even doing this show? You're asking yourself.
But I have done a little bit of research. I
am going to be the expert reporting on this expert
in inverted commerce with a few asterisks next to it.
(27:31):
I do get a lot of questions around eating healthily
with PMS cravings, and we're going to give you some
really practical tips to help, because that's something that so
many of you do experience. I obviously don't, but you do,
and we're going to talk about that next. All right,
(27:52):
this question has come through, and I did say I'm
not an expert, so bear with me.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
From Brie, I want to know how do I manage
PMS cravings? Every time my period comes the week before,
I just start going into eating badly, even though I've
been eating really well through the months, Like, am I
missing something? Why do I crave really bad food at
(28:19):
this point in my cycle? And how do I keep
at least some nutrition in the food I eat?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Thank you, so three, great question. And the first thing
I'll say to you, and I'll say this to everyone
else that's listening too, is we actually had a couple
of months ago now an incredible expert on this exact topic.
She was all about working with your cycle, and you know,
when you're in the zone, you're in a good party. Cycle,
(28:45):
then push yourself harder and get the most out of
your progress, but there are also times to back off.
Then from an eating perspective, almost understanding what's going to
happen at different stages of the cycle, and so there's
no sort of nasty surprises, because I do think it's
almost like we know it's coming, but we are still
surprised by it, you know, you know it's in a
(29:05):
weird way. And I'm not trying to be a smart
ale like it's kind of like, I know this is
going to happen, and then when it does, like, oh
where did this come from? You know, And by the
time we rally, the damage is almost done. You know,
we've kind of gone stuff at the food cravings have
really kicked in. So the first bit of advice is
absolutely go back, find that episode with genially and listen
(29:29):
to it. The second thing, and this sort of came
from the research that I was doing, is progress not perfection.
We're not trying to be perfect. Here here's how we
can be better, or here's how we can break even.
And that's a massive wind. So the advice that I
was reading out and said, when you give into your
cravings and you eat that fried food, you cook up
(29:49):
some frozen veggies. And so then if you're having your
you know your KFC or your even your charcoal chicken
and you fried chips, you add them in, or if
you're having your you add your strawberry. So all it
is is it's just make a dent in the unhealthy
stuff with a healthy option added in. And when we
think about it, it's like, oh, what a simple win.
(30:12):
No one thinks, erh when it's roast chicken, chips and
gravy and some broccoli. It was a whole plate of
broccoli that might be a bit different, or no one thinks,
ooh about the strawberries if they're with the chocolate. I
mean it's I mean, they're two very simple examples. But
I think you get my point, and I love it.
I think it's a really good one. So the next one,
plan ahead. If you know that this is going to
(30:35):
be your week every month, or before you get your
period or whatever it might be, be sure to keep
more nourishing versions of the food that you crave in
the freezer. Next one, make healthier versions of the food
that you crave. So this is like a little slight
variation number one. So it's not ordering the ultra unhealthy version.
(30:57):
It's making the healthy burger or the home chips. This
one absolute no brainer. Still try to move so you
might not feel like doing your hardest workout. In fact,
generally stated, you're not going to you're not going to
be out peak performance. You're going to feel a bit blur.
But it doesn't mean you can't move. It doesn't mean
you go completely into hibernation. It might be a fun
(31:19):
dance workout, it might be just a walk instead of
a run that it might be getting at in some sunshine.
It might be doing some yoga, whatever, just whatever brings
you some joy without you feeling like, oh my god,
I can't do this. I'm really having to force myself
to get it on my comfort zone is always a
good move. So the next one, I think was a
really good one because it's sort of taking these previous
(31:40):
ones that I've mentioned into account and it's saying, if
you do give into your PMS gravings, you have that
indulgent moment, it's okay. It's not the end of the world.
If you are trying to get these quality nutrients in
with these simple swaps and simple strategies. And you are
still moving your body, then have a bag of Lolleys
(32:01):
or a type of ice cream or at whatever your
think is. It's okay because the other things that you've
done have balanced it out. If you have one or
two real moments where you just go for it, it's okay.
Don't bet yourself up about it. And the last one,
if your PMS is really getting you down and derailing
you in a big way, of course, go to a
healthcare professional, check out your hormones and make sure you
(32:25):
get a personal sort of tick that everything is okay,
because they can be a very individualized thing. And I'm
not the one to give you advice to say this
is just how it should be. So I absolutely think
if you are thinking, you know what Sam keeps happening
to me, I know it's coming. I do all these things,
but I really go down in these periods, then I
(32:49):
definitely think you should get some professional help. As always
would love to hear from you if there's any topics
that you know and like you I would have noticed
in the last few weeks, we go everywhere you know.
We go into OCD, we go into ADHD, we go
into PMS, and any other acronym, So anything you'd like
(33:11):
to hear about, don't hesitate to send it in if
I'm not an expert in that subject matter. We have
a brilliant team here that I work with, and we
do lots of research and reach out to heaps of
wonderful experts, not just in Australia but all over the world.
It's my job to bring them to you on a
weekly basis. Until then, I'll see you next time.
Good everyone, Sam Wood here, Welcome to another episode of
the wood Life. This is going to sound crazy because
I keep saying, oh my god, this is my wife Luck.
And I was joking about this to Snage literally as
we're driving to the studio, because she said, who have
you got on the podcast today? And I said, I've
got this expert at ADHD and Snage and you both
have ADHD and diagnosed not. Sam says, I feel like
(00:28):
I'm going to get a deeper understanding and I think
you will too. Going to get into that with the
incredible material to Boseley, who's an award winning journalist, social
media reporter and just brilliant with almost any topic that
she covers, from current affairs to of course this topic,
and she actually has ADHD herself. It really came to
(00:49):
the surface during COVID and she's written an incredible book.
We're going to get into that, and then we're going
to talk a little bit of AMS. So we are
really going into some into some areas that are not
myrio of expert, but that's what we're here for to
tackle the hard challenges and learn together. That's all coming
up next on the Woodlfe. Matilda Bosley. Welcome to the
(01:33):
WOODLFE and thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
So I'm just going to give people bit of a
background because you are an award winning journalist, social media
reporter for The Guardian. You're a TikTok instagram sensation and
I don't mean that lightly, you genuinely are. And you're
sitting in front of me with this book with the
most Wonderful name, which is The Year I Met My Brain,
which is a book that shines the light. And I'm
(01:57):
sure you're going to dive into with us the very
misunder often misunderstood topic of adult ADHD. Let's start at
the very beginning. What is ADHD and how did the
book come about?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, the question of what is ADHD is one of
those ones where it's like, well, the short answer is.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
A I don't have to give me the short to say.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
The long answer is kind of the entirety of the
book and then sort of the one hundred pages that
then got cut out. It's a neurodevelopmental condition, so it's
a different, something different happening in the brain that means
people have a more difficult time generally with attention and
(02:38):
where they focus their intention as well as quite often
hyperactivity and impulsivity.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So it's something that a lot of people are born with.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Basically, some people grow out of it as they age.
A lot of people carry it, Yeah, a lot of
people carry it all the way into adulthood because you
just usually think of it as childhood can because I
think a lot of the time, yeah, we talk about
it in terms of classrooms and kids sitting still and
stuff like that. But what we're finding out more and
(03:08):
more and more is the sheer number of people that
carry it with them their entire lives.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I can't help but think back to I mean, I'm
forty three, so I was a school twenty five years ago.
It was quite rare for someone to be diagnosed with
ADHD then, and now I have little kids. It feels
like a third of the class has been labeled or
diagnosed or parents say we suspect or whatever it might be.
And they're very little, so it's probably early on in
(03:36):
the awareness phase. Has ADHD? Why has that happened?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
So what we know about ADHD is it's been actually
quite steady. The actual prevalence of people. So you know,
if you take a thousand people off the street, you
screen them all for ADHD. For the past four decades,
which is the last one we kind of started really caring.
We've seen that it's remarkable. It's around five point eight
percent of people, and it's around seven point two percent
(04:06):
of children and two point eight ish of adults. So
what has changed is the level of awareness that we
have around it. So previously we would only really think
of ADHD as the hyperactive can't sit still, can't you know,
get the work done, but also like bouncing around constantly
(04:28):
interrupting talking and stuff like that, and that's a decent
whack of people who have the condition. What we also
are much better at understanding now and are much better
at recognizing, is that there's also the inattentive presentation of ADHD,
which doesn't necessarily have hyperactivity and impulsivity involved that much
at all. So that isn't the class clown. It's the
(04:48):
kids sort of sitting in the corner quietly staring out
the window, getting distracted by the birds. And so we've
got a bigger recognition of those kids as well, which
is potentially by the time you reach s lot of
teenage and adult years, the majority of the people with
those cases have that presentation. We're also getting better at
(05:08):
recognizing the symptoms in girls because they also tend to
internalize their symptoms more as well as Yeah, as people grow,
But just in general, you know, I think it's not
so much that there didn't used to be as many
ADHD kids. It was that the ADHD kids were just
the bad kids that you didn't really bother with, or
just the ones that were a bit hopeless at school.
(05:29):
And you know, and I think there's was a lot
of people who you know, probably were really really smart
who just dropped out of academics or were pushed out
in a way because yeah, those needs weren't being catered to. Yeah,
it can be definitely a bit almost well, you know,
you look around, you're like, oh, it's everywhere nowadays. But
what it actually is a much more of a coarse
(05:51):
correction than some sort of you know, epidemic of little
inattentive children.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
You mentioned too, this underdiagnosis girls and whether it's even
carrot to Back when I was at school, it was
always like, ah, yeah, it's the crazy naughty boys. Yeah,
just they can't sit still boys so have to go
under the timeout corner or whatever. It might be, it
was very rarely the girls you spoke about. The two
(06:17):
different types, are boys more likely to be one and
girls the other? Or not necessarily?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, a little bit should I should actually clim there's
three different types. The third one is just the two
of them combined.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Right, so there's a hybrid.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, it's called yeah combined ADDYHUD, very original name. So
hyperactive impulsive, purely hyperactive impulsive tends to only be quite
young kids. So there are presentations rather than sort of subtypes,
because you can change throughout your life. It's not set
in stone, and once you see as people grow up,
they tend to lean towards more either combined or just
(06:52):
purely and attentive. Sometimes the hyperactive impulsive symptoms fall away
all together. We do know there is like a slight
there is slightly more chance of a girl having inattentive
type ADHD than combined or hyperactive. Not massive like sometimes
you hear people talk about inattentive ADHD almost as like.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
The girl version of the condition.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
It's not really that, but what we so, you know
they're slightly more inclined towards that type, which means they're
less likely to be diagnosed because that type just generally
is because it's harder to spot. And then we also
know that girls do tend to regardless of what presentation
they have, they tend to internalize their symptoms a bit more.
And this is one of those things it's really hard
(07:33):
to research, but from experts that I've spoken to, I
think the general sort of one of the general kind
of theories about it is like we actually, just as
a society, don't treat you know, loud, boisterous, constantly interrupting
girls as well as we might you know, or the confident,
(07:54):
you know, go get a boy. We view those very differently.
There's often quite high pressure on girls to be you know,
polite and caring and sweet, and it's not necessarily encouraging
the assertiveness or the absolutely say everything in class all
the time and subconsciously the way parents and teachers and
everyone raised them. So there's a potential that by the time,
(08:16):
you know, even you're six years old and you get
into a classroom for the first time, girls might already
have a keener sense of the consequences and also face
steeper consequences for that behavior.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
As parents, what are the best or most important things
to look out for if we're suspecting that our children
might have symptoms, and as adults, what are the things
that we should be looking for in ourselves.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
With parents, I think it is about paying attention to
the you know, the little clues and you know, maybe
they aren't something's going wrong with school. And to be clear,
it actually shares so many symptoms with so many other conditions,
like and just childhood.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Oh yeah, and this is I guess I think we're
some of this kept assuming comings from It's like do
they have that or are they just five? Yeah, you know,
and it's okay, like they're a five year old, Like
what are we we were expecting too much? Yeah, kids
are kids are going to play, kids are going to
be cookie, kids going to be curious. You know, they're
going to say the damned just things, you know, yeah, exactly.
Sometimes I think we want to back a label on
(09:18):
it straight away, and it's just like that's just a
kid being a kid.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
No, definitely, I mean, like even a kid not getting
enough sleep. Yeah, you know, sleep apnea could be you know, tiredness.
It mimics some of the symptoms in some way, so
you know, it's if the kids struggling to take note
not just of the sort of external factors, but also
(09:41):
their ability to focus and their ability for sort of
sitting down and doing stuff. And I think oftentimes parents
will be like, well, my kid can't be out of
actual because yeah, they're struggling at school or they're struggling this,
but they can play video games for hours and hours
and hours, or they can read a book so often,
you know, the little go oh they read a book
for you know, six hours on the weekend.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Like that's that's focused.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Understanding that well, ADHD attention deficit hyperactivity disorder just like
an awful name all round, because you don't have to
be hyperactive. No, yeah, just you don't have to be hyperactive.
And it's not so much a deficit in attention. Yeah,
we're taking out the two last two letters as well.
There's no letter is safe. It's not so much about
(10:21):
a deficit in attention. It's a deficit in the ability
to control where that attention is focused.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I love that. That's really important.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yeah, So a lot of people that HD will experience
something that's sort of colloquially termed hyper focus, where you
get so sucked in and like time and space, you know,
disappears and you put off peeing for four hours to
you know, keep playing, which you know, not speaking out
of personal experience, but and so not to let that
(10:49):
sort of get in the way. But also, yeah, just
to look at the overall patterns of attention with adults,
it can be really tricky because you've never known anything different.
So I used to be actually like very embarrassed about
how I found out. But now it's like the most
common story, which is COVID lockdown's happened. I just moved
out of home. Things were getting a bit harder. My
(11:12):
TikTok screen time just abomination levels awful, the worst you've
ever seen six hours plus, you know, watching so much TikTok,
And then the videos just kept papping up of like oh,
symptoms of adult ADHD or EHD and adults or ADHD
and women. I was like, oh my god, adults can
have ADHD or and so.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
That's really interesting. There is a perception out there that
it is just a kids thing, is there?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, you know what, maybe until I met Snage, I
might have thought that too. Well.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Sometimes I am like, how did I used to think
about ADHD? And I'm like I'm not sure I did.
I'm not sure I paid it any mind. I remember
actually in university I had googled it once because I
was like, maybe it is something's happening, And what came
up was just all the symptoms of, you know, has
trouble staying seated, has trouble playing quietly, And none of
(12:05):
that really related to me because it was all sort
of talking about kids. It's like, no, I'm not having
trouble staying seated, Like I want to pass my classes,
so I'm going to stay seated. And so it hadn't
really resonated with me, and I sort of let it go.
And then when people put that in terms of the
adult version of the symptoms. So and also to be clear,
everything is normal human experiences. It's kind of the degree,
(12:28):
the frequency, the intensity you feel them is what makes
it ADHD. But with the hyperactivity, what it can go
from is from you know, like physically being hyperactive to
you know, maybe in adults it's just you're constantly tapping
your feet and constantly like you know, tapping your fingers
against things and fiddling with things, and really the hyperactivity
is more a sense of kind of perpetual internal restlessness,
(12:52):
which I felt very much like. It was always so
hard for me to sort of sit down at the
end of the day and relax, like heaven forbid, you know,
you have to just trying to think about the things
to do and then unable to actually action getting those
things done. And so that was a big moment for
me realizing that that's what hyperactivity could look like, because
I resonated with that so much, as well as in
girls and adults as well. It can also express itself
(13:14):
more as hyper talkativeness or being hyper emotional, you know,
feeling things sort of on a kind of more of
a sea sory scale than the average person.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So at what age were you materiital when this is
all happening.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
If you don't so, I was twenty three, twenty three
or yeah, twenty two, got diagnosed just before my twenty
third birthday.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Was yeah, so saw it, and it was genuinely like these.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
People were just reaching into my deepest soul and pulling
out all the things that I was kind of ashamed
of and didn't even really want to admit and was
hoping that, you know, oh, maybe I'm just kind of
worse than everyone else at all of this like everyone
else can keep their life on track a bit, and
I'm just bad at doing it. And it was they
(13:58):
were listing off these things, and I kind of felt
seen in a way that my sort of cynical exterior
is hard to admit, but like made me realize I
was like lonely in a way I didn't ever even
realize before, like being that understood and clearly watched the
videos a bit too deeply. Somewhere in the algorithm, you know,
in some computer, they're like, oh my god, we're onto
(14:19):
a mind goldmine here. This woman's going to watch whatever
we put in front of her about this sends me
millions And so eventually my whole full year page was
just sort of consumed by them, and it was like,
it's getting too spooky.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I've got to talk to a doctor.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
So you went off to the doctor, got diagnosed nearly
twenty three. How did it all pan out?
Speaker 3 (14:37):
I think my psychologist who i'd spoken to, I'd been
speaking to previously.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I'd been diagnosed with anxiety before that.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Is there a connection? Oh yeah, h yeah, I did say.
I think it was four times the likelihooder having mental
health issues if you've got aut HD then not that's
the correlation of something.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, that sounds about right the citists. So yeah, depression, anxiety,
whole host of other mentis you were already.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Saying a psychologist for the anxiety.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, and was already medicative for the anxiety. It was
on anti anxiety meds. And I had spoke to her
about it. I think if she had even vaguely raised like, oh,
maybe thinking about bipolar almost because sometimes I'd just be
very flat and sometimes I'd be like ready, you know,
to go, and that never I had sort of looked
(15:26):
into it, and I just didn't really it didn't resonate
with me.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
It didn't.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
We went through some things, it didn't really resonate. But
then when I came to her and said, like, have
we thought about ADHD, Yeah, we went through the criteria
and sort of she was like, oh, yeah, got a
bit of a point, like in terms of you know,
the theory. Once once she sort of started asking me
about that. And then when I eventually went to the psychiatrist,
(15:49):
I was very lucky. Nowadays, it can be up to
a twelve thirteen, fourteen month wait. It's awful for adults especially,
but I got in maybe three or four, four or
five months, Yeah, answer questions, had this whole, big, long
diagnostic process, and by the end he sort of said, yeah,
it seems like you have ADHD and you've had it
(16:11):
since you were a child.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I think your story is fascinating, and your stories obviously
become a story with the book take us through the
journey in a nutshell.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, so it's it's I've tried to pitch it as
a travel companion, so it's sort of my findings as
I've gone along.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
So they feel like they're in real time with you
almost as they Yeah, and to.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
A certain degree very much.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Well so, so for the first year after I was diagnosed,
I kind of I got the diagnosis, I got some medication.
I was like, good done, Okay, going to be you
know normal. I'm gonna like, I'm going to fix myself.
I'm going to cure my ADHD. Basically it's kind of
what I assumed, you know, and that was you know,
not the case and also not how anything works. And
then eventually sort of have to sort of stumbling through
(16:55):
just being you know, just sort of thinking of myself
as like clinically forgetful and not really understanding the condition
much more. I was yet wanting to realize that it's like,
I need to buckle down, and like, you know, the
medications helped me at work a lot, It's helped, you know,
a lot with anxiety, but like kind of everything in
my life is still the kind of messy situation it is.
(17:15):
So I wanted to, yeah, properly buckle down and actually
learn what it's about. And then remembered that I'm a writer,
so sheould probably also bring people with me on the journey.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
And on a scale of one to ten, with that
buckling down, how far along the spectrum do you feel
that you've moved from a remembering organization perspective or anything
else that you want to throw in there.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
I think where the change has really come has been
in my self esteem and my perception of self. So
in terms of where I'm at, it was interesting. So
I have a couple of chapters about how to live
with and it's going through the terrible news you get
when you get ADHD, which is at the four ways
that you can help your ADHD symptoms are to go
(18:04):
to therapy, exercise, eat well, and sleep well. Devastating horrible news.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So going through what else.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Yeah, I was like, oh, there has there has to
be there has to be a better way.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I does see here do you come up? Is that?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Which?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You know we've all heard those. I remember I've promoted those.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It's the worst and it's true.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Unfortunately, so the days that i'm you know, the times
where things are going really well and I'm sleeping well
and eating well and exercising and all of that, a
lot of the stuff comes more easily, and sort of
a talk through the chapters and then I have, you know,
one a lot of life hacks and thinking about how
I basically I set out for one chapter to be
like I'm going to become for science, you know, the ADHD,
(18:52):
you know, super superperson, Like I'm going to go to
all the stuff and I'm going to fix my own
life and.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And millions of other a little benefit.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah, And I was like, well, I can't motivate it
to do it for myself, but I can maybe motivate
it to do it for the book. And turns out no,
I couldn't, And that I think ended up being a
lot more useful to talk about, like you can try
really hard, and you know, with ADHD you're going to
try so many new things but it's hard to keep
things in a routine. That's literally like the whole thing.
The best way to not have ADHD is to not
(19:23):
have adh you know. The best way to cure your
ADHD is to do all the things that you could
only really do if you could cure your ADHD. It's
a bit of a you know, it's a bit of
a it can be definitely, But what I kind of
realized to was the end is like it's not even
really about like, Okay, I need to you know, have
this and get to the train on time every single
time and never be late or never do this or
(19:44):
you know, make sure I'm eating healthy and keep the
house clean.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
It's about one.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Forgiving myself when I don't and too like realizing what
battles like I actually need to fight. You know, there's
there's things that are there's things that with real world consequence,
like getting to work late, so that's okay, that has
to be a priority. There's things that make me a
better person, you know in terms of you know, making
sure that I'm pulling my weight around the house for
my partner and things like that. But there's things like
(20:10):
it would be great to have a great skincare routine.
If I'm in a busy period, if things aren't going
as well, there's no one's at like the pearly gates
being like, mate, you didn't tone, you know, you didn't moisturize.
You know, you left the washing in the in the
washing machine and it got a bit milled you and
you had to wash it again.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Like that's actually fine. It's you know, we moralize so much.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
And I think that's one of the really hard things
about ADHD, which is the things that makes you bad
at is the things that we as a society like
to assume makes you a bad person. You know, it's
difficult to reply to people, It's difficult to get places
on time. It's sometimes it's difficult to remember to text
people happy birthdays and things like that, and realizing that, okay,
well I can get better and I can work towards
(20:51):
getting better at those things because I want to help
out the people around me. I want to live this life.
I don't have to do it just because like I'm
a terrible person if I don't.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I think one thing.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
That's weird to think about with ADHD is for a
lot of people people with ad actually don't perceive time
quite in the same way. So you know, it's it's here,
I need to work hard, because if I work hard,
then I'm going to get this pay rise in a
month's time, you know. And most people, if it's a
pay rise in a month's time, will be more motivated
to work hard than it's like, oh well in two
(21:22):
years time, so the reward diminishes the further away in
time it is for ADHD people that is a much
more drastic curve. Is one way that it's sort of
one theory. In one way it's described so you know,
the immediate gratification or immediate consequences, you know, time things
sort of exist in the now or later. So I'll
(21:43):
be you know, just pottering along and pottering a long
and pottering and then panic and then oh my god,
it's right now and we need to get everything done,
whereas you know, my partner will be much more like, okay,
there's an hour and then there's maybe half aney, you know,
and going.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Through moving in that direction, and it is the.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Same, you know, even things like the bin. You know,
like he'll look at a bin and when it's like
eighty percent full, he'll be like cool, time to take
out the bin, and I will look at the bin
and it will be like one hundred and ten percent full,
like it needs to.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Get to count.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Yeah, well, because it's like, well it's cold outside. First
of all, I don't want to do it. It's gonna
be boring. And also I've already forgotten about it because
I've moved on to the next thing. So until like
the bin, I'm like shoving things in, like cramming it.
Like that's when my brain goes like, oh, it's probably
time to take it the bin. But what ends up
happening is Okay, well, if he sees it at eighty percent,
he's going to take it out every single time. And
then yeah, it's an interesting one when it comes to relationships,
(22:34):
and it's just like with my partner and I and
I talk about it in there is just like being
able to talk about it and mention it through because
like for me, because I had so much guilt growing
up about just like well, I can't keep this siding
and I can't and I'm not helping other people around
the house. And you know that my parents didn't know.
They're like the most loving, generous people, but even they,
(22:54):
you know, didn't know that it wasn't me just choosing
not to do the stuff. It's that I've forgotten, So
be like, you know, come on like a your wait,
like do this. And so if Anthony gets to the
point where he's like, oh, could you tidy this? I
get so defensive like, oh my god, I've already failed.
It's already bad. I've become the bad person. And then
I'll get super defensive as well. So it was interesting
of us like talking about it and finding ways of yeah,
(23:18):
to kind of work around that, because so much of
ADHD is just the kind of self esteem and trauma
that I.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Mean, the relationship thing is interesting from my own selfish
point of view, but the relationship obviously that it's how
to help you with your relationship with yourself. What's one
just to leave our listeners with and then the rest
is up to them to go and buy the book.
What's one revelation or epiphany that you had that without
doing the process of writing the book, you don't think
(23:45):
you would have had about ADHD?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yeah, completely, So I think I know, like straight off
about what it is, which has been Yeah, the most
life changing bit of it, which is that when I
went into it I kind of without even thinking, like
I assume that the biggest problem ADHD was causing in
my life was that I couldn't keep track of things,
or I couldn't keep things tidy, or I couldn't keep
(24:07):
a diary, and that was, yeah, going to be the
main things to fix. But what I actually found was
the process of getting diagnosed was yeah, re looking at
my life, revisiting all those moments that I was hard
on myself and I blamed myself and I thought I
was worse, and I thought I was just a bad
person who was pretending to be good because I couldn't
(24:28):
remember to do these things and going back and forgiving
myself for a lot of that and going through and
just rebuilding my self esteem from the ground up and
being like, no, this was that I was just a
kid who was coping, or I was a teenager who
was doing their best. And you know, that's that's one
(24:48):
of the just like weird and wild things about ADHD,
which is like like the two most effective medications for
it are you know, highly regulated stimulant potential and fed
means and self forgiveness and like it's just a lover,
which you know, kind of just goes into the constantly
bizarre world of ADHD that it comes with living with it.
(25:10):
But he genuinely was so and that's been the most
important thing for me in terms of like living with ADHD.
I no longer even really think about curing it, but
you know, or wanting to not have it, but just
living to learning to forgive myself and you know, everything
else is kind of a bonus.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
That is so beautiful, by the way, and that was
a really fascinating chat on again a topic that I
don't I really should know more about because it absolutely
impacts two people that I love dearly, and I'm a
better person for hearing it. So thanks so much for
coming in.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Thank you so much. Also, if you have ADHD and
you can't read a book, it's an audiobook.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I can't bloody read a book.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
There you go. I love that and I'm going to
get the book for Abie and the audiobook message.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Thank you so much, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Okay, Matilda, what a what a beautiful human being. And
it was actually just really interesting to hear Matilda talk
about it from an empathy perspective, a self awareness perspective,
a self love perspective, not being so hard on a
self because I think sometimes as parents we're so focused
on making our children more resilient. I want to have
(26:26):
conversations with Edie like I know I could have done
things better, for example, dot dot dot, and I think
I do feel like I would just be a much
better support telling her to not be so hard on it.
You know, I actually think telling her that the reality
is life's not really going to give you a hug
about it, and you just need to deal with these
(26:47):
things because that's what prepares you better for being an adult.
After hearing Matilda and reflecting on it, you know, just
for the last few minutes, probably just makes a tough
situation worse. Doesn't help. I might feel better, but it's
not about me, and I think as a father still
with three daughters to raise, it's a really important recognition
(27:09):
for me as I want to make sure I learn
from my mistakes and continue to become a better father.
But we're going to go from talking about one topic
that I know not very much about to another one
that I don't know very much about, which is Sam,
why are you even doing this show? You're asking yourself.
But I have done a little bit of research. I
am going to be the expert reporting on this expert
in inverted commerce with a few asterisks next to it.
(27:31):
I do get a lot of questions around eating healthily
with PMS cravings, and we're going to give you some
really practical tips to help, because that's something that so
many of you do experience. I obviously don't, but you do,
and we're going to talk about that next. All right,
(27:52):
this question has come through, and I did say I'm
not an expert, so bear with me.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
From Brie, I want to know how do I manage
PMS cravings? Every time my period comes the week before,
I just start going into eating badly, even though I've
been eating really well through the months, Like, am I
missing something? Why do I crave really bad food at
(28:19):
this point in my cycle? And how do I keep
at least some nutrition in the food I eat?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Thank you, so three, great question. And the first thing
I'll say to you, and I'll say this to everyone
else that's listening too, is we actually had a couple
of months ago now an incredible expert on this exact topic.
She was all about working with your cycle, and you know,
when you're in the zone, you're in a good party. Cycle,
(28:45):
then push yourself harder and get the most out of
your progress, but there are also times to back off.
Then from an eating perspective, almost understanding what's going to
happen at different stages of the cycle, and so there's
no sort of nasty surprises, because I do think it's
almost like we know it's coming, but we are still
surprised by it, you know, you know it's in a
(29:05):
weird way. And I'm not trying to be a smart
ale like it's kind of like, I know this is
going to happen, and then when it does, like, oh
where did this come from? You know, And by the
time we rally, the damage is almost done. You know,
we've kind of gone stuff at the food cravings have
really kicked in. So the first bit of advice is
absolutely go back, find that episode with genially and listen
(29:29):
to it. The second thing, and this sort of came
from the research that I was doing, is progress not perfection.
We're not trying to be perfect. Here here's how we
can be better, or here's how we can break even.
And that's a massive wind. So the advice that I
was reading out and said, when you give into your
cravings and you eat that fried food, you cook up
(29:49):
some frozen veggies. And so then if you're having your
you know your KFC or your even your charcoal chicken
and you fried chips, you add them in, or if
you're having your you add your strawberry. So all it
is is it's just make a dent in the unhealthy
stuff with a healthy option added in. And when we
think about it, it's like, oh, what a simple win.
(30:12):
No one thinks, erh when it's roast chicken, chips and
gravy and some broccoli. It was a whole plate of
broccoli that might be a bit different, or no one thinks,
ooh about the strawberries if they're with the chocolate. I
mean it's I mean, they're two very simple examples. But
I think you get my point, and I love it.
I think it's a really good one. So the next one,
plan ahead. If you know that this is going to
(30:35):
be your week every month, or before you get your
period or whatever it might be, be sure to keep
more nourishing versions of the food that you crave in
the freezer. Next one, make healthier versions of the food
that you crave. So this is like a little slight
variation number one. So it's not ordering the ultra unhealthy version.
(30:57):
It's making the healthy burger or the home chips. This
one absolute no brainer. Still try to move so you
might not feel like doing your hardest workout. In fact,
generally stated, you're not going to you're not going to
be out peak performance. You're going to feel a bit blur.
But it doesn't mean you can't move. It doesn't mean
you go completely into hibernation. It might be a fun
(31:19):
dance workout, it might be just a walk instead of
a run that it might be getting at in some sunshine.
It might be doing some yoga, whatever, just whatever brings
you some joy without you feeling like, oh my god,
I can't do this. I'm really having to force myself
to get it on my comfort zone is always a
good move. So the next one, I think was a
really good one because it's sort of taking these previous
(31:40):
ones that I've mentioned into account and it's saying, if
you do give into your PMS gravings, you have that
indulgent moment, it's okay. It's not the end of the world.
If you are trying to get these quality nutrients in
with these simple swaps and simple strategies. And you are
still moving your body, then have a bag of Lolleys
(32:01):
or a type of ice cream or at whatever your
think is. It's okay because the other things that you've
done have balanced it out. If you have one or
two real moments where you just go for it, it's okay.
Don't bet yourself up about it. And the last one,
if your PMS is really getting you down and derailing
you in a big way, of course, go to a
healthcare professional, check out your hormones and make sure you
(32:25):
get a personal sort of tick that everything is okay,
because they can be a very individualized thing. And I'm
not the one to give you advice to say this
is just how it should be. So I absolutely think
if you are thinking, you know what Sam keeps happening
to me, I know it's coming. I do all these things,
but I really go down in these periods, then I
(32:49):
definitely think you should get some professional help. As always
would love to hear from you if there's any topics
that you know and like you I would have noticed
in the last few weeks, we go everywhere you know.
We go into OCD, we go into ADHD, we go
into PMS, and any other acronym, So anything you'd like
(33:11):
to hear about, don't hesitate to send it in if
I'm not an expert in that subject matter. We have
a brilliant team here that I work with, and we
do lots of research and reach out to heaps of
wonderful experts, not just in Australia but all over the world.
It's my job to bring them to you on a
weekly basis. Until then, I'll see you next time.
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