October 25, 2023 • 25 mins
With summer coming in hot, don't forget to slip, slop, slap! Dr Adriene Lee, the President of the Australasian College of Dermatologists is here to remind us of the Dos and Don’ts for protecting our skin. Sam Wood will also ask Dr Lee how to get our skin checked and how often we should be checking our skin for melanomas. Â
Then, Sam's going to (gently) tackle the TikTok trend that might be the answer to our exercise prayers: cozy cardio...
Have a question for Sam? Guest suggestion? Or some positive news to share? Submit it to The Wood Life Inbox HERE.Â
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Get everyone Sam here. Who would have thought we're going
to get in a guest today to talk about something
that is important for absolutely every single one of us
and it's only going to become more important as we
head into summer. And that is doctor Adrianne Lee, who
(00:25):
is going to blow our minds in a good way
on the importance of taking care of ourselves in the
hot Australian sun. We had a little bit of a
chat before I knew she was coming on today and
just some of the stats that she was sharing with
me forgetting just the intensity of the UV rays in
this country that we live in, and how many of
(00:47):
us do the right thing, but still how many of
us don't do the right thing and make ourselves susceptible
to something that is so avoidable. And we're going to
go through the whole a disease of how you take
care of your skin and in turn take care of
your health.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So that's coming up next in the wood Life, and then.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
We're going to talk about cozy cardio. Sam, what is
cozy cardio? Well, you better stick around to find out. Okay,
(01:31):
we are joined in the studio today and we've just
been having the very quickest chat before before coming on
air with the President of the Australasian College of Dermatologists,
thrilled to be joined by doctor Adrian Lee. Welcome to
the WOODLFE.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Oh thank you, Sam.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
It's actually a pleasure to be here and I'm grateful
to be invited to speak about this topic because it's
really important to us.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
It is really important.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
And the thing that we were just saying before we
went on air is I almost feel like the fact
that we haven't spoken to you or anyone in this
area of skin cancer is almost a metaphor of the
fact that we all just forget about it. And when
I was doing some research about you coming in today
and I read that eighty percent of new cancers in
(02:15):
this country are actually diagnosed are actually skin cancer, I
really fell off my chair.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I really did. That was much much higher than I
would have thought.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yeah, and it is.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
It's probably downplayed a lot, and we hear a lot
about particular types of skin cancers or melanoma, but we
forget there are much more common skin cancers out there.
And if you add up every other cancer skin cancers
in terms of numbers, at weighs all of those put together.
So it's a really high proportion of cancers diagnosed, or
all skin cancers. In my everyday practice, I would see
(02:47):
you know, five ten a day.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
And that's just one of me.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So then my head went to guilt because and I
don't know if my listens like Sam, that's horrific.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Oh my god, I'm the same. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Actually, I think probably a bit of both. But I
think I've been checked once in my adult life and
I'm not totally blase wear my hat, I wear sunscreen,
you know. But we do have this bronzed Aussie like
having a tan is a sign of good health, and
(03:23):
like even if I go away on holiday and get
a bit of a tech like the amount of compliments
you get when you're oh, you look fantastic, mate, the
holiday was just the thing you needed, and I reckon
the only thing different is a tan.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
It's a dangerous image, isn't it, you know, for us
to strive for it is.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I mean, there's a real perception that if you look bronzed,
you must be healthy, and I guess it associates without
directivities and therefore being sporty, and so there's all that
knock on effect of perception, but there's actually is a cliche,
but there's no such thing as a healthy tan, and
even some that causes and without sunburn can cause damage
to the skin and the skin cells that come out
(04:03):
later in life as skin cancer. And I think if
you put it this way, if we have some of
the highest levels of skin cancer in the world, and
we have some of the UV in the world, yet
a majority of our skin cancers are preventable with appropriate
sun protection and also very treatable with early detection, then
a lot can change.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I don't want you to come in here and be
go over the top, no, but I'd.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Love you to scare me a bit.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I know, I know that sounds a bit weird, but
I think I need a bit of a scare because
I get a bit lax with it. So how bad
is our UV compared to other countries and how can
you spook us with?
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yeah, well, if we put it this way, so there's
three types of UV. There's UVC, UVB, and UVA, and
so UVC is the stuff that is really bad and
most of it is filtered out, but it's filtered by
the ozone layer. So starting with that, there's a hole
in the ozone layer, which sort of centers around Victoria
and Tasmania. And then UVB, which is this uv that's
(05:08):
out that causes sunburns and skin cancers. That's a very
high index in Australia and in Australia for northern Australia
and the middle of Australia, it's out all year round.
It does disappear in the winter in the southern States,
which is where we can be a bit more relaxed
with our sudden protection. But when it's out, it has
(05:28):
the potential to sunburn if you're out in the sun
for say more than ten minutes, and it has the
potential to cause damage and that can lead on to
skin cancers if you're out for that short period of time.
And then the other UV's UVA, and it's the one
we always forget about because UVB is blocked out by
window glass, so we think we're safe if we're sitting
in a car or sitting behind a window, but UVA
can still penetrate throo and that can also cause us
(05:52):
skin cancer. Also aging, I mean, we don't want to
look older than we need to. And the thing about
the whole bronze Dozzie is that actually they will look seventeen,
they're actually fifty because of all that sun exposure.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And that's another aspect to it.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
All right, spook me tell me, yeah, I'm I'm ready to.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Not like you very m no, and I'll take that proudly.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, listening, lady, Alright, this podcasting scared the life out
of me. I think that's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Well, let's put it this way.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
So if we look at it skin cancers, two in
three Australians by the age of seventy will have been
diagnosed with a skin cancer.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Of every Australian we'll.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Get a skin cancer. So last year one point six
billion dollars of the health budget was spent on skin
cancer diagnosis, treatment and detection. And that's just a rough
estimate on based on sort of Medicare figures because they
don't collect datron most skin cancers. They only collected on melanoma,
and so it's the most expensive cancer expenditure for our government.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And if you add up all those.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
That can all the other cancers, and they're cost to
treat skin cancer by far out weighs that. So that's
how common it is, and that's how expensit it is.
But the sad thing is most of them preventable, so
we could actually reduce that reduce the numbers with good
sun protection practices.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
So let's go to what we should be doing both.
Let's let's start at the very source. So you know what,
from a prevent I know, we all know slip stop slap.
I don't think it hurts to refresh, No, it doesn't.
That's one is that that'll be with us, you know,
for a hundred years.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Absolutely, But so yeah, tell us what we do.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Tell us that maybe the one thing that you frustrates
you that you don't see estrangers this absolute no brainer,
and it drives you mare that not enough of us
are doing it.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
And also I think there's some misconceptions and myths that
I think you bust them. Yeah, yeah, Look, and slip
stop slap is still the sort of gold standard. So
we still slip on a shirt and I think the
thing about that is just clothing that covers up your skin,
because that's better than sunscreen. And the thing is that
it should be tightly woven, so if you hold it
(08:07):
up to the sun, you shouldn't be able to see
through it. And then you know, it's tightly woven and
that way that you'll get your best sun protection. So
slip on a shirt, slop on sunscreen. So with sunscreens, basically,
I think the two factors are is that A we
don't put enough on and B we need to be
able to choose the right sunscreen.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
The we don't we don't put it on frequently enough,
or when we do put it on, we put it
on too thinly.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Probably both.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Yeah, So strictly speaking, if you're putting enough sunscreen on,
you should be putting the equivalent of a tea spin
or every single body part. So a tea spoon on
your arm, a tea spoon on your other arm, a
tea spoon on your face and neck, one on your
front of your body, one on the back, one on
each leg. That's thirty five meals of sunscreen. So it's
actually quite a lot up. Yeah, it does. And so
(08:52):
the sprays you can never get enough on the aerosol
sunscreens because I know they use a friendly, but it's
hard to get good coverage with that. The other thing
about sunscreen I want to mention is that we always
talk about that sun protection factor, and we do recommend
sun protection SB fifty and above. But the other trick
is that only measures UVB protection and u v A
also causes skin cancers. So it's important you get a
(09:15):
broad spectrum one because the broad spectrum one will also.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Protection from you v You never know what broad spectrum that's.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
What it means.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I see it on the sure sounds good.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
But I mean I look for the highest number.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So broad spectrum fifty plus and they said on every four.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Hours, really every trio.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
More as soon as you come out of the water,
if you're swimming and going to be outdoors, that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
What are these ones that are water resistant? You did
buy that or is it there is evidence to suggest
that they're better, that.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
They will stick a bit better while you're in sort of,
And that includes water resistance important is not only important
for water sports, but also if you get sweaty, and
that's where water resistance also plays a role in your sunscreen.
But they do play a role, So you're better off
using a water resistant one than a non water resistant
one if you're going to be getting wet in any manner.
(10:08):
But once you've actually gotten out of water, they're probably
no longer effective. So that's why you want to reapply
as soon as you come out of the water anyway,
independent of how long you've been in there too. And
one more trick is you do need to put your
sun's screen on, say about twenty minutes before you head.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Out, so it works.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I'm really bad. Yeah, I put it on. Then the
kids go go, let's go swimming. It's probably all washed
off in that eight seconds of putting it on. Yeah,
but that okay, that's really good. So we've got our sunscreen,
We've got our shirt.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yep. So we've slip slopped, and we're going to slap
on a hat.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
And I think the key is, especially because of our ears,
because of the back of our neck, has to be
nice and broad brimmed.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
I've got my nice Happy Year.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
As well, two which I love, and that gives you
good protection. Now, the other two things that have been
added to the slip stop slap campaign are so slide
on some sunglasses. Yeah, And the reason is that not
only does sun cause skin cancers, but it actually can
cause some gross on your eyes and cataracts and things
like that. And so traditional sunglasses also will just be
(11:10):
square and the UV can get in through here. So
you can still get some skin damage but also some
damage to the eyes. So sliding on sunglasses that are
preferably tight and wrap around would be better. And then
seek shade, So slip, stop, slap, slide, seek And so
it's seeking shade. So if you're out ideally you stand
in the shade. Although that's not a subsidity. You still
(11:32):
need your sunscreen, you still need your hat, but you're
standing in the shade rather than in the direct sun.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
All right, So slip, slop, slap, slide shade. And so
then what about proactively going to the doctor?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
How often should be going?
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Is there a particular age that you say from this
age onwards, this is when you should starts absolutely.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
I think the first thing to say is that everyone
should be checking themselves, and that's the place to start.
So a really every change of season. It sounds like
a lot, but you know, you change your toothbrush, you
just do a quick check of your skin and so
you get to know your skin. You get to know
your spots really well. And a skin check on yourself
is really quick and it doesn't take much because you
(12:13):
just use a mirror and use a handheld mirror. You
check your front you put your back to the well
mirror and then you look over your handheld and you
can do a check of most of your body parts
and you don't forget to check the things we don't
think to check, so even the soles of your feet,
sometimes between your toes, the ears, and then the bits
you can't see. Hopefully you've got a partner who can
(12:35):
help you. Hairdressers are invaluable for your scalp on top
of the head as well, and they will often comment
on a spot that they see and say, get that
checked so and then if you notice anything. So what
you're looking for is as firstly a new spot.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
That looks different, because a lot.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Of people think that most melanomas come from pre existing
moles that change, but in fact three quarter of melanomas
come from your normal skin. And we often talk about
the ABC, D, E R all so A being asymmetry,
B being a border that's irregular or funny shaped or smudgy.
C being colors, so lots of colors, so dark brown,
light brown, black, red, gray, blue, D being diameter meaning
(13:19):
it's growing, and E being evolution. So other changes, you know,
getting lumpy, getting scabby, getting crusty, so they're the things
you would be looking for in your own own moles,
and as is it anything that looks different And we
always say ugly duckling. So when you look at your
skin and your eyes go straight to a spot and
you just can't ignore it, that's an ugly duckley and
then you know, I better get that checked. So if
(13:40):
you see something like that, straight to your GP.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
And what is once you get that diagnosis from your GP,
what's then the process? What typically do people have to
have done and what percentage? I mean, are there some
stats on how many of them are serious, how many
of them are fatal? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yeah, So basically, if they're worried about a spot, they'll
send you on to a dermatologist, and if we get
the message that there's a concerning spot, we'll try and
fast track seeing them because some of us do have
waiting lists, so we're aware that are certain things that
we need to see quickly. Then when we see the
patient and we feel if it is a concern, it
(14:21):
will depend on what we see and what we think
it might be. Sometimes we'll just take a sample of
it and do a biop see other times we'll cut
the whole thing out and then based on the result,
will recommend the appropriate treatment in terms of what we
might find. So the commoner skin cancers that's sort of
two in three people data, is more commonly what we
call keratinocyte skin cancers as opposed to melanomas. They used
(14:44):
to be called non melanoma skin cancers. So there's something
called a basal cell skin cancer that comes from the
bottom layer of the skin cells, and they're sort of
slow growing. They eat away the local skin, but they're
very treatable and they really rarely spread through the body
of metastas eyes, and they're the ones that I would
see five or ten times a day. And some of
(15:04):
those are just in the surface of the skin, like
red shiny spots or pearly lumps, and those we just
cut out all. Some are amenable to a cream or freezing,
and so they don't always lead to surgery. The next
level of cancer is something called a squam of sell
skin cancer, and they start from the top layers of skin.
They grow a bit more quickly. They can be painful,
(15:27):
and those ones, if we neglect them, have a small
risk of starting to spread through the body, But again
by and large are just amenable to cutting them out.
So we just cut them out and that's the end
of it and they won't cause any trouble. It's the
melanomas that are the serious ones. And while they're less common.
So I think the stats are one in fourteen men
(15:48):
and one in twenty one women. So that's important to
remember because unfortunately, I think men are maybe a bit
less diligent about sun protection and their health checks as well,
but the rates of melanoma are higher. So one in
fourteen men twenty one women will get a melanoma in
their lifetime in Australia.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
That still scares me a lot. To me, that still
feels very high. I don't go only one in fourtee.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
It's the third commonest cancer that is in Australia because
we have to take out the correct skin cancers because
we don't click data on those, but of the big
cancers they click data on, it's the third commonest.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
And what about what about from what age?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I mean, what age should I start doing my quarterly
self checks and what age should I be insisting my
GP doing it once over once a year.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
I often think about school age is the time to
do just your first check to work out where you're
at it, we'll starting to know yours and then with
your annual checks. Often we're a bit older when we
start to get annual checks from our GP, so that
might be in your.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I've only started doing it.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I think I was forty, that's it, So I don't
know it's.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
My fortieth birthday, is alarmer?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
What else?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
But Yeah, the skin's one thing. So would you advise
from forty or earlier?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Or it depends a bit on respectors.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Sure, So for someone who's never had a skin cancer,
who has not got many risk factors, so they are
actually not like yourself. So you're probably intermediate in terms
of your skin type, but you might have had some
UV exposure over the years and then probably about twenty
five thirty as well. Yeah, if you've got a really
(17:23):
strong family history of skin cancer, are you're covered in moles,
that's probably an earlier age that you should be getting
those skin checks.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Look, I'm not saying I guess. My thought is you
can't really do this to it again. Your I agree
for what you have to lose to the correct the inconvenience,
let's get the balance right here.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Absolutely, I agree, and I think that it's also part
of just that general looking after your general health. It
gets even good ractices and it makes you think about
what you're doing every day and.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Are there any other symptoms that you would experience beyond
a look like would you if you had a melanoma?
Would you be fear in any way? Or it's purely
a visual identity and identification.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
The spot itself might get itchy, it might scabble crust,
or it might be a bit sore or tender, so
it might draw your attention not just by how it looks,
but how it feels.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Okay, that's good to know. I've learned.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Literally, I've just been a sponge to soaking all of
this up.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
It's been absolutely fantasy.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Last question I've got, because we've sort of spoken about
how far we've come.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Are there still?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Are there any trends or anything still here in twenty
twenty three that really worries you that if you've got
this as a mouthpiece to the younger people or whatever,
Australians everywhere, is there anything you.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Just go You've got to listen to this.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
You're mad to not hear this information.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
I think there's a few things, but in particular I
think it's just still the whole tanning trend, wanting to
get tanned, wanting to get sort of that healthy glow,
and that health the glow naturally, is there real concern too?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Now?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Look, I've just thought of another trend that's really right
bad and it's on TikTok, and it's called the TikTok
tanning trend.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And there's a thought, there's a concept that if you
pour a cat of beer all over your skin, you
will get a better tan. I mean, I only have
to say it to.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Know that it's not a good idea, but there's people
out there who are doing it, probably in their millions.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Yes, Yes, because TikTok is such a reliable source of information.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Isn't that.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I mean, how many conversations I have on this podcast
where TikTok or social media in general just.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Is detrimental to our health.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Adrian, that was just such an informative, lovely chat I've learned.
I kind of haven't written it down, obviously, but I
must have been twenty fascinating things that if I knew them,
i'd forgotten them, or I definitely wasn't practicing as much
as I should, or I didn't know them altogether. And
I'm sure as we head into these hotter months in Australia,
(19:58):
there'll be thousand of people listening to this just going
thank you so much for such an important, powerful reminder
how we can all take better care of ourselves in
the hot Australians. Son, thanks so much for joining us
in the woodlife.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Oh appreciate it, Sam, And thank you for giving us
the opportunity to speak as well at this opportune time.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
The pleasures on mine. Thanks you all right.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
So there's a new trend on social media called cozy cardio?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
What is it? Is it good for us?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
I gotta admit this hasn't come from me. This has
come from my eighteen year old daughter. So there's this
TikTok creator, very well known, very successful. Her name says
it all, Hope zucker Brow. She gets up early in
the morning, she puts on a favorite movie. She's in
her comfy pajamas, she's got galaxy lamp, she's got her
(21:00):
cat's there. She makes herself a scrumptious ice coffee drink
with all her favorite You know, she's really setting herself
up to enjoy exercise as much as is humanly possible.
And then she walks on her little treadmill while drinking
her ice coffee, which that bit I don't like because
(21:20):
she's kind of then going I burn one hundred and
thirty calories with my thirty minute power walk, and she
probably consumed one hundred and thirty calories with her ice coffee.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
So that is a little bit counterproductive.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
And if I'm being you know, from my own personal perspective,
and there's a lot of research to suggest too, that
getting out and getting some vitamin D and some fresh
air is absolutely my preference too, rather than in a dark,
cozy room with the candles on it and your cats everywhere.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But this is the thing.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
There'd be a lot of fitness people who would just
slam hope and go yeah, hope.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
What she's setting the bed ex there.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
She's doing more good than harm. The reality is our
job as fitness professionals is to help people move their
body more by making the medicine taste better. So she's
found this environment, all of these cues that she does,
she's built a community doing the same thing. She's got
(22:20):
this wonderful TikTok community, sending a cozy club, cups and
merch and like it's a really interesting, you know way,
but it just shows find something that you like doing,
find an environment that you like doing it in, avoid
things that are you know, it's kind of find the
things that give you green lights and avoid the things
that give you red lights. Gyms intimidate the crap out
(22:41):
of a lot of people. So going to a gym
with people gawking at you and standing there and mirrors everywhere,
and people that you know all glammed up and in
their skin tight lycra that's pretty horrendous for a lot
of people. So don't feel bad if you're like, Okay,
my association with exercises that I'm never going to exercise again.
(23:01):
You just have to go, Okay, that type of exercise
isn't appealing to me. What else can I do? Going
for a walk, getting out and about talking to no one,
having your headphones in, listening to your favorite podcast, listening
to your favorite music, finding a friend that you like,
exercising with, doing it at home in your comfy aus pj's,
doing yoga with your dog on the floor.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
But we need to move so that the two messages
I think are you've got to find what makes the
medicine taste better for you, and something is always better
than nothing.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So if the.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Alternative is just sitting on the couch and watching the
movie or walking on your little Amazon treadmill and watching
the movie, well then of course the latter is better.
So we can't be too hard on ourselves. We can't
strive for perfection. We don't all have to be crazy
athletes or crossfitters. And Cozy Cardio is one example of
how one inspirational person in a lot of ways has
(23:58):
found something that works for her and is working.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
For millions of her followers.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
So I embrace it, I endorse it. Where I get
worried is they start giving professional advice. It's way out
of their pay grade, you know, like they're giving physio
advice and medical advice and just incorrect information. So I
do think you've got to be aware who am I
listening to, What are their qualifications? Do they actually know
(24:23):
what they're talking about or are they just funny and
inspirational and entertaining. And if it's the latter, great, If
you're going to them for medical advice, maybe check yourself.
But outside of that, I think doing way more good
than harm. The more we can move our bodies and
do that with people that we enjoy spending time with
and build a community and feel like we're part of something.
The longer we're going to stick to it, the more
we're going to enjoy each individual workout, each milestone that
(24:46):
we achieve, and the better that we're going to be
for it. And what a lovely way to finish the show,
because I'm really proud of the fact that that's my
attitude when it probably wasn't my adity as a twenty
five or even thirty year old, and I know it's
definitely not the attitude to most fitness professionals out there.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Get on your TikTok channels.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
If you've got a TikTok channel, check out Cozy Cardio
with Hope Zacher Brown. You will then have a much
better idea of what I'm talking about, and I'm sure
you'll go you won't think Sam has lost his mind.
You'll see the good bits that I'm talking about. And
if there's any other trendsetters out there, let me know
about them. I'd love to what's viral? What's going viral?
What's trending on your social media channels? From a fitzbo
(25:28):
perspective that I do not know about, that I should
know about. That's your homework. Send it in until next week.
I'll see you then
Get everyone Sam here. Who would have thought we're going
to get in a guest today to talk about something
that is important for absolutely every single one of us
and it's only going to become more important as we
head into summer. And that is doctor Adrianne Lee, who
(00:25):
is going to blow our minds in a good way
on the importance of taking care of ourselves in the
hot Australian sun. We had a little bit of a
chat before I knew she was coming on today and
just some of the stats that she was sharing with
me forgetting just the intensity of the UV rays in
this country that we live in, and how many of
(00:47):
us do the right thing, but still how many of
us don't do the right thing and make ourselves susceptible
to something that is so avoidable. And we're going to
go through the whole a disease of how you take
care of your skin and in turn take care of
your health.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So that's coming up next in the wood Life, and then.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
We're going to talk about cozy cardio. Sam, what is
cozy cardio? Well, you better stick around to find out. Okay,
(01:31):
we are joined in the studio today and we've just
been having the very quickest chat before before coming on
air with the President of the Australasian College of Dermatologists,
thrilled to be joined by doctor Adrian Lee. Welcome to
the WOODLFE.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Oh thank you, Sam.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
It's actually a pleasure to be here and I'm grateful
to be invited to speak about this topic because it's
really important to us.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
It is really important.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
And the thing that we were just saying before we
went on air is I almost feel like the fact
that we haven't spoken to you or anyone in this
area of skin cancer is almost a metaphor of the
fact that we all just forget about it. And when
I was doing some research about you coming in today
and I read that eighty percent of new cancers in
(02:15):
this country are actually diagnosed are actually skin cancer, I
really fell off my chair.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I really did. That was much much higher than I
would have thought.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yeah, and it is.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
It's probably downplayed a lot, and we hear a lot
about particular types of skin cancers or melanoma, but we
forget there are much more common skin cancers out there.
And if you add up every other cancer skin cancers
in terms of numbers, at weighs all of those put together.
So it's a really high proportion of cancers diagnosed, or
all skin cancers. In my everyday practice, I would see
(02:47):
you know, five ten a day.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
And that's just one of me.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So then my head went to guilt because and I
don't know if my listens like Sam, that's horrific.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Oh my god, I'm the same. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Actually, I think probably a bit of both. But I
think I've been checked once in my adult life and
I'm not totally blase wear my hat, I wear sunscreen,
you know. But we do have this bronzed Aussie like
having a tan is a sign of good health, and
(03:23):
like even if I go away on holiday and get
a bit of a tech like the amount of compliments
you get when you're oh, you look fantastic, mate, the
holiday was just the thing you needed, and I reckon
the only thing different is a tan.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
It's a dangerous image, isn't it, you know, for us
to strive for it is.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I mean, there's a real perception that if you look bronzed,
you must be healthy, and I guess it associates without
directivities and therefore being sporty, and so there's all that
knock on effect of perception, but there's actually is a cliche,
but there's no such thing as a healthy tan, and
even some that causes and without sunburn can cause damage
to the skin and the skin cells that come out
(04:03):
later in life as skin cancer. And I think if
you put it this way, if we have some of
the highest levels of skin cancer in the world, and
we have some of the UV in the world, yet
a majority of our skin cancers are preventable with appropriate
sun protection and also very treatable with early detection, then
a lot can change.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I don't want you to come in here and be
go over the top, no, but I'd.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Love you to scare me a bit.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I know, I know that sounds a bit weird, but
I think I need a bit of a scare because
I get a bit lax with it. So how bad
is our UV compared to other countries and how can
you spook us with?
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yeah, well, if we put it this way, so there's
three types of UV. There's UVC, UVB, and UVA, and
so UVC is the stuff that is really bad and
most of it is filtered out, but it's filtered by
the ozone layer. So starting with that, there's a hole
in the ozone layer, which sort of centers around Victoria
and Tasmania. And then UVB, which is this uv that's
(05:08):
out that causes sunburns and skin cancers. That's a very
high index in Australia and in Australia for northern Australia
and the middle of Australia, it's out all year round.
It does disappear in the winter in the southern States,
which is where we can be a bit more relaxed
with our sudden protection. But when it's out, it has
(05:28):
the potential to sunburn if you're out in the sun
for say more than ten minutes, and it has the
potential to cause damage and that can lead on to
skin cancers if you're out for that short period of time.
And then the other UV's UVA, and it's the one
we always forget about because UVB is blocked out by
window glass, so we think we're safe if we're sitting
in a car or sitting behind a window, but UVA
can still penetrate throo and that can also cause us
(05:52):
skin cancer. Also aging, I mean, we don't want to
look older than we need to. And the thing about
the whole bronze Dozzie is that actually they will look seventeen,
they're actually fifty because of all that sun exposure.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And that's another aspect to it.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
All right, spook me tell me, yeah, I'm I'm ready to.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Not like you very m no, and I'll take that proudly.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, listening, lady, Alright, this podcasting scared the life out
of me. I think that's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Well, let's put it this way.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
So if we look at it skin cancers, two in
three Australians by the age of seventy will have been
diagnosed with a skin cancer.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Of every Australian we'll.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Get a skin cancer. So last year one point six
billion dollars of the health budget was spent on skin
cancer diagnosis, treatment and detection. And that's just a rough
estimate on based on sort of Medicare figures because they
don't collect datron most skin cancers. They only collected on melanoma,
and so it's the most expensive cancer expenditure for our government.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And if you add up all those.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
That can all the other cancers, and they're cost to
treat skin cancer by far out weighs that. So that's
how common it is, and that's how expensit it is.
But the sad thing is most of them preventable, so
we could actually reduce that reduce the numbers with good
sun protection practices.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
So let's go to what we should be doing both.
Let's let's start at the very source. So you know what,
from a prevent I know, we all know slip stop slap.
I don't think it hurts to refresh, No, it doesn't.
That's one is that that'll be with us, you know,
for a hundred years.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Absolutely, But so yeah, tell us what we do.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Tell us that maybe the one thing that you frustrates
you that you don't see estrangers this absolute no brainer,
and it drives you mare that not enough of us
are doing it.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
And also I think there's some misconceptions and myths that
I think you bust them. Yeah, yeah, Look, and slip
stop slap is still the sort of gold standard. So
we still slip on a shirt and I think the
thing about that is just clothing that covers up your skin,
because that's better than sunscreen. And the thing is that
it should be tightly woven, so if you hold it
(08:07):
up to the sun, you shouldn't be able to see
through it. And then you know, it's tightly woven and
that way that you'll get your best sun protection. So
slip on a shirt, slop on sunscreen. So with sunscreens, basically,
I think the two factors are is that A we
don't put enough on and B we need to be
able to choose the right sunscreen.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
The we don't we don't put it on frequently enough,
or when we do put it on, we put it
on too thinly.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Probably both.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Yeah, So strictly speaking, if you're putting enough sunscreen on,
you should be putting the equivalent of a tea spin
or every single body part. So a tea spoon on
your arm, a tea spoon on your other arm, a
tea spoon on your face and neck, one on your
front of your body, one on the back, one on
each leg. That's thirty five meals of sunscreen. So it's
actually quite a lot up. Yeah, it does. And so
(08:52):
the sprays you can never get enough on the aerosol
sunscreens because I know they use a friendly, but it's
hard to get good coverage with that. The other thing
about sunscreen I want to mention is that we always
talk about that sun protection factor, and we do recommend
sun protection SB fifty and above. But the other trick
is that only measures UVB protection and u v A
also causes skin cancers. So it's important you get a
(09:15):
broad spectrum one because the broad spectrum one will also.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Protection from you v You never know what broad spectrum that's.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
What it means.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I see it on the sure sounds good.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
But I mean I look for the highest number.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So broad spectrum fifty plus and they said on every four.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Hours, really every trio.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
More as soon as you come out of the water,
if you're swimming and going to be outdoors, that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
What are these ones that are water resistant? You did
buy that or is it there is evidence to suggest
that they're better, that.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
They will stick a bit better while you're in sort of,
And that includes water resistance important is not only important
for water sports, but also if you get sweaty, and
that's where water resistance also plays a role in your sunscreen.
But they do play a role, So you're better off
using a water resistant one than a non water resistant
one if you're going to be getting wet in any manner.
(10:08):
But once you've actually gotten out of water, they're probably
no longer effective. So that's why you want to reapply
as soon as you come out of the water anyway,
independent of how long you've been in there too. And
one more trick is you do need to put your
sun's screen on, say about twenty minutes before you head.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Out, so it works.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I'm really bad. Yeah, I put it on. Then the
kids go go, let's go swimming. It's probably all washed
off in that eight seconds of putting it on. Yeah,
but that okay, that's really good. So we've got our sunscreen,
We've got our shirt.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yep. So we've slip slopped, and we're going to slap
on a hat.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
And I think the key is, especially because of our ears,
because of the back of our neck, has to be
nice and broad brimmed.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
I've got my nice Happy Year.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
As well, two which I love, and that gives you
good protection. Now, the other two things that have been
added to the slip stop slap campaign are so slide
on some sunglasses. Yeah, And the reason is that not
only does sun cause skin cancers, but it actually can
cause some gross on your eyes and cataracts and things
like that. And so traditional sunglasses also will just be
(11:10):
square and the UV can get in through here. So
you can still get some skin damage but also some
damage to the eyes. So sliding on sunglasses that are
preferably tight and wrap around would be better. And then
seek shade, So slip, stop, slap, slide, seek And so
it's seeking shade. So if you're out ideally you stand
in the shade. Although that's not a subsidity. You still
(11:32):
need your sunscreen, you still need your hat, but you're
standing in the shade rather than in the direct sun.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
All right, So slip, slop, slap, slide shade. And so
then what about proactively going to the doctor?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
How often should be going?
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Is there a particular age that you say from this
age onwards, this is when you should starts absolutely.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
I think the first thing to say is that everyone
should be checking themselves, and that's the place to start.
So a really every change of season. It sounds like
a lot, but you know, you change your toothbrush, you
just do a quick check of your skin and so
you get to know your skin. You get to know
your spots really well. And a skin check on yourself
is really quick and it doesn't take much because you
(12:13):
just use a mirror and use a handheld mirror. You
check your front you put your back to the well
mirror and then you look over your handheld and you
can do a check of most of your body parts
and you don't forget to check the things we don't
think to check, so even the soles of your feet,
sometimes between your toes, the ears, and then the bits
you can't see. Hopefully you've got a partner who can
(12:35):
help you. Hairdressers are invaluable for your scalp on top
of the head as well, and they will often comment
on a spot that they see and say, get that
checked so and then if you notice anything. So what
you're looking for is as firstly a new spot.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
That looks different, because a lot.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Of people think that most melanomas come from pre existing
moles that change, but in fact three quarter of melanomas
come from your normal skin. And we often talk about
the ABC, D, E R all so A being asymmetry,
B being a border that's irregular or funny shaped or smudgy.
C being colors, so lots of colors, so dark brown,
light brown, black, red, gray, blue, D being diameter meaning
(13:19):
it's growing, and E being evolution. So other changes, you know,
getting lumpy, getting scabby, getting crusty, so they're the things
you would be looking for in your own own moles,
and as is it anything that looks different And we
always say ugly duckling. So when you look at your
skin and your eyes go straight to a spot and
you just can't ignore it, that's an ugly duckley and
then you know, I better get that checked. So if
(13:40):
you see something like that, straight to your GP.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
And what is once you get that diagnosis from your GP,
what's then the process? What typically do people have to
have done and what percentage? I mean, are there some
stats on how many of them are serious, how many
of them are fatal? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yeah, So basically, if they're worried about a spot, they'll
send you on to a dermatologist, and if we get
the message that there's a concerning spot, we'll try and
fast track seeing them because some of us do have
waiting lists, so we're aware that are certain things that
we need to see quickly. Then when we see the
patient and we feel if it is a concern, it
(14:21):
will depend on what we see and what we think
it might be. Sometimes we'll just take a sample of
it and do a biop see other times we'll cut
the whole thing out and then based on the result,
will recommend the appropriate treatment in terms of what we
might find. So the commoner skin cancers that's sort of
two in three people data, is more commonly what we
call keratinocyte skin cancers as opposed to melanomas. They used
(14:44):
to be called non melanoma skin cancers. So there's something
called a basal cell skin cancer that comes from the
bottom layer of the skin cells, and they're sort of
slow growing. They eat away the local skin, but they're
very treatable and they really rarely spread through the body
of metastas eyes, and they're the ones that I would
see five or ten times a day. And some of
(15:04):
those are just in the surface of the skin, like
red shiny spots or pearly lumps, and those we just
cut out all. Some are amenable to a cream or freezing,
and so they don't always lead to surgery. The next
level of cancer is something called a squam of sell
skin cancer, and they start from the top layers of skin.
They grow a bit more quickly. They can be painful,
(15:27):
and those ones, if we neglect them, have a small
risk of starting to spread through the body, But again
by and large are just amenable to cutting them out.
So we just cut them out and that's the end
of it and they won't cause any trouble. It's the
melanomas that are the serious ones. And while they're less common.
So I think the stats are one in fourteen men
(15:48):
and one in twenty one women. So that's important to
remember because unfortunately, I think men are maybe a bit
less diligent about sun protection and their health checks as well,
but the rates of melanoma are higher. So one in
fourteen men twenty one women will get a melanoma in
their lifetime in Australia.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
That still scares me a lot. To me, that still
feels very high. I don't go only one in fourtee.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
It's the third commonest cancer that is in Australia because
we have to take out the correct skin cancers because
we don't click data on those, but of the big
cancers they click data on, it's the third commonest.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
And what about what about from what age?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I mean, what age should I start doing my quarterly
self checks and what age should I be insisting my
GP doing it once over once a year.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
I often think about school age is the time to
do just your first check to work out where you're
at it, we'll starting to know yours and then with
your annual checks. Often we're a bit older when we
start to get annual checks from our GP, so that
might be in your.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I've only started doing it.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I think I was forty, that's it, So I don't
know it's.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
My fortieth birthday, is alarmer?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
What else?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
But Yeah, the skin's one thing. So would you advise
from forty or earlier?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Or it depends a bit on respectors.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Sure, So for someone who's never had a skin cancer,
who has not got many risk factors, so they are
actually not like yourself. So you're probably intermediate in terms
of your skin type, but you might have had some
UV exposure over the years and then probably about twenty
five thirty as well. Yeah, if you've got a really
(17:23):
strong family history of skin cancer, are you're covered in moles,
that's probably an earlier age that you should be getting
those skin checks.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Look, I'm not saying I guess. My thought is you
can't really do this to it again. Your I agree
for what you have to lose to the correct the inconvenience,
let's get the balance right here.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Absolutely, I agree, and I think that it's also part
of just that general looking after your general health. It
gets even good ractices and it makes you think about
what you're doing every day and.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Are there any other symptoms that you would experience beyond
a look like would you if you had a melanoma?
Would you be fear in any way? Or it's purely
a visual identity and identification.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
The spot itself might get itchy, it might scabble crust,
or it might be a bit sore or tender, so
it might draw your attention not just by how it looks,
but how it feels.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Okay, that's good to know. I've learned.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Literally, I've just been a sponge to soaking all of
this up.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
It's been absolutely fantasy.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Last question I've got, because we've sort of spoken about
how far we've come.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Are there still?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Are there any trends or anything still here in twenty
twenty three that really worries you that if you've got
this as a mouthpiece to the younger people or whatever,
Australians everywhere, is there anything you.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Just go You've got to listen to this.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
You're mad to not hear this information.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
I think there's a few things, but in particular I
think it's just still the whole tanning trend, wanting to
get tanned, wanting to get sort of that healthy glow,
and that health the glow naturally, is there real concern too?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Now?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Look, I've just thought of another trend that's really right
bad and it's on TikTok, and it's called the TikTok
tanning trend.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And there's a thought, there's a concept that if you
pour a cat of beer all over your skin, you
will get a better tan. I mean, I only have
to say it to.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Know that it's not a good idea, but there's people
out there who are doing it, probably in their millions.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Yes, Yes, because TikTok is such a reliable source of information.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Isn't that.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I mean, how many conversations I have on this podcast
where TikTok or social media in general just.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Is detrimental to our health.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Adrian, that was just such an informative, lovely chat I've learned.
I kind of haven't written it down, obviously, but I
must have been twenty fascinating things that if I knew them,
i'd forgotten them, or I definitely wasn't practicing as much
as I should, or I didn't know them altogether. And
I'm sure as we head into these hotter months in Australia,
(19:58):
there'll be thousand of people listening to this just going
thank you so much for such an important, powerful reminder
how we can all take better care of ourselves in
the hot Australians. Son, thanks so much for joining us
in the woodlife.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Oh appreciate it, Sam, And thank you for giving us
the opportunity to speak as well at this opportune time.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
The pleasures on mine. Thanks you all right.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
So there's a new trend on social media called cozy cardio?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
What is it? Is it good for us?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
I gotta admit this hasn't come from me. This has
come from my eighteen year old daughter. So there's this
TikTok creator, very well known, very successful. Her name says
it all, Hope zucker Brow. She gets up early in
the morning, she puts on a favorite movie. She's in
her comfy pajamas, she's got galaxy lamp, she's got her
(21:00):
cat's there. She makes herself a scrumptious ice coffee drink
with all her favorite You know, she's really setting herself
up to enjoy exercise as much as is humanly possible.
And then she walks on her little treadmill while drinking
her ice coffee, which that bit I don't like because
(21:20):
she's kind of then going I burn one hundred and
thirty calories with my thirty minute power walk, and she
probably consumed one hundred and thirty calories with her ice coffee.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
So that is a little bit counterproductive.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
And if I'm being you know, from my own personal perspective,
and there's a lot of research to suggest too, that
getting out and getting some vitamin D and some fresh
air is absolutely my preference too, rather than in a dark,
cozy room with the candles on it and your cats everywhere.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But this is the thing.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
There'd be a lot of fitness people who would just
slam hope and go yeah, hope.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
What she's setting the bed ex there.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
She's doing more good than harm. The reality is our
job as fitness professionals is to help people move their
body more by making the medicine taste better. So she's
found this environment, all of these cues that she does,
she's built a community doing the same thing. She's got
(22:20):
this wonderful TikTok community, sending a cozy club, cups and
merch and like it's a really interesting, you know way,
but it just shows find something that you like doing,
find an environment that you like doing it in, avoid
things that are you know, it's kind of find the
things that give you green lights and avoid the things
that give you red lights. Gyms intimidate the crap out
(22:41):
of a lot of people. So going to a gym
with people gawking at you and standing there and mirrors everywhere,
and people that you know all glammed up and in
their skin tight lycra that's pretty horrendous for a lot
of people. So don't feel bad if you're like, Okay,
my association with exercises that I'm never going to exercise again.
(23:01):
You just have to go, Okay, that type of exercise
isn't appealing to me. What else can I do? Going
for a walk, getting out and about talking to no one,
having your headphones in, listening to your favorite podcast, listening
to your favorite music, finding a friend that you like,
exercising with, doing it at home in your comfy aus pj's,
doing yoga with your dog on the floor.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
But we need to move so that the two messages
I think are you've got to find what makes the
medicine taste better for you, and something is always better
than nothing.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So if the.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Alternative is just sitting on the couch and watching the
movie or walking on your little Amazon treadmill and watching
the movie, well then of course the latter is better.
So we can't be too hard on ourselves. We can't
strive for perfection. We don't all have to be crazy
athletes or crossfitters. And Cozy Cardio is one example of
how one inspirational person in a lot of ways has
(23:58):
found something that works for her and is working.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
For millions of her followers.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
So I embrace it, I endorse it. Where I get
worried is they start giving professional advice. It's way out
of their pay grade, you know, like they're giving physio
advice and medical advice and just incorrect information. So I
do think you've got to be aware who am I
listening to, What are their qualifications? Do they actually know
(24:23):
what they're talking about or are they just funny and
inspirational and entertaining. And if it's the latter, great, If
you're going to them for medical advice, maybe check yourself.
But outside of that, I think doing way more good
than harm. The more we can move our bodies and
do that with people that we enjoy spending time with
and build a community and feel like we're part of something.
The longer we're going to stick to it, the more
we're going to enjoy each individual workout, each milestone that
(24:46):
we achieve, and the better that we're going to be
for it. And what a lovely way to finish the show,
because I'm really proud of the fact that that's my
attitude when it probably wasn't my adity as a twenty
five or even thirty year old, and I know it's
definitely not the attitude to most fitness professionals out there.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Get on your TikTok channels.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
If you've got a TikTok channel, check out Cozy Cardio
with Hope Zacher Brown. You will then have a much
better idea of what I'm talking about, and I'm sure
you'll go you won't think Sam has lost his mind.
You'll see the good bits that I'm talking about. And
if there's any other trendsetters out there, let me know
about them. I'd love to what's viral? What's going viral?
What's trending on your social media channels? From a fitzbo
(25:28):
perspective that I do not know about, that I should
know about. That's your homework. Send it in until next week.
I'll see you then
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