In Person Auditions. Actual and IRL!

After the self tape comes the callback - IN PERSON!

• - Rituals about getting in the room
• - A chance to act, ONE NIGHT ONLY!
• - Mindset & chemistry
• - vs Self Tapes
• - How to start
• - The Reader
• - Great audition fails
• - Listening and taking adjustments
• - How much material is too much?

Name checked: Al Pacino, Susan Blackwell, Tom Hanks, Alaska Thunderfxck, Sally Wilfert, Mel Brooks, Susan Stroman, Tina Landau, Merri Sugarman, Tara Rubin

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The Working Actor NYC. He's Patrick Richwood. He's Benjamin Howes.

(00:14):
So this episode of The Working Actor NYC we're discussing in-person auditions.
Do you have any rituals around in-person auditions?
I mean, the really big ritual that's different is I have to put on pants.
You know what I mean? When you're doing a self-tape, I've done many a self-tape with no pants on.
And I'll say in the slate I'm not wearing any pants.

(00:37):
I just let them wonder if I'm kidding or not.
And then it goes to the full body shot.
And then you're just like, ah!
No, I don't know. Even I don't have that kind of nerve.
I don't think I have any rituals about before I go on or before I audition.
The more grounded in it I am, the better I feel.

(00:59):
You know what I go to an audition for is to really feel like I embodied the part.
I don't go to an audition to get a job because you don't know.
Oh my God, there are so many factors that go into whether or not you get a part.
You can't really go to an audition like it's a job interview wanting the job.
You have to go to the audition like my teacher used to say, a chance to act on a Tuesday.

(01:21):
Look, Al Pacino used to say that. He was like, I had a great day. I got to act today.
And that's what the audition is.
I think I don't have a... Do you have a ritual?
I guess I kind of in a way do. Susan Blackwell taught me this.
Susan Blackwell? I know Susan Blackwell.
Yeah, fantastic, fantastic actor.
But she taught me, and I can't remember who she learned this from,

(01:43):
but first thing you do when you walk in the room, say "Hello friends."
Oh, that's nice.
It just, there's something. So I literally do that every time I walk into the room now.
Hello friends.
I just saw a video Tom Hanks said, "Be on time, know the text, and have an idea."
Yeah.
So that you're giving yourself a chance to be that character, whatever they're looking for.

(02:09):
It's not a... You don't know exactly what they're looking for,
but as long as you have an idea about the material.
And I would add one more thing to that, maybe way before you ever get there,
which is remind yourself of why you do this, all this in the first place,
because that really helps me.
I mean, I don't even think I did that consciously.
I'll forget a lot of times to do that, but when I remember to think,

(02:31):
oh, this is why I do this, this is why I love this,
I go there with it in a different context, a broader context.
And I think that may not be conscious when I'm in the building.
Do you think it varies with the material?
Like if you feel good about the material or whether you're like, this kind of stinks?
Only at first, by the time you get to the audition,
you better think it's the best writing that ever existed,

(02:53):
because if you don't, you're not doing your job.
I mean, you know, we have to do that on stage.
Right.
We have to work, do new plays.
Maybe they haven't worked something out or maybe it stinks.
Right, right.
I've been at a few things that stink.
Oh.
I mean, I, you know, I burn those clothes.
As far as in-person versus self-tapes, you know, they both have,
I was thinking about this, they both have their pros and cons.

(03:16):
Yeah.
I think I would always opt for an in-person audition,
because I really believe in the spark that can't be virtually recreated.
I think there's an excitement.
I definitely get an excitement from doing it, from meeting the people.
Yeah.
And there's something about, oh, I get to show them what I can do.

(03:40):
For some, somehow in a self-tape, that's not as present for me.
That idea of like, oh, I get this opportunity to show them my idea about this character, about this.
There's also, yeah, there's, there is, there's an element of here I am in the sandbox.
Yeah.
And, and, and side note, I mean, when they're, when they're not a very good audience,
my attitude is always that's because they're doing it in a very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

(04:04):
very, very, very, very good, very good job.
Yeah.
I mean, sometimes they are.
Yeah.
But sometimes they're going, that's funny, that's funny.
Oh, right.
He knows the pacing of this.
Oh, right.
He gets that character.
Yeah.
They're doing their job.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So I feel like that's a pro for in-person auditions every time.
Yeah.

(04:25):
A con, you know, like I said, I have to put on pants, you know,
you got to get on the, I gotta get on the bus and go somewhere.
And there's the waiting room, which is never that much,
or the waiting hall, or the waiting bench,
or whatever it is, which is never that much fun.
I mean, because I love it when I look around,
I see people practicing their words,

(04:47):
and I think, honey, if you don't know them by now.
Oh my God, but that's me every single time.
Really?
Oh my God, yes.
Why, is it not gonna, do you think it's gonna get better?
No, but there is like familiarity.
It is, it is definitely nerves.
Like tomorrow I have an audition with four sides

(05:08):
and two songs, and so I can guarantee you
I'm gonna be sitting there with those.
I'm not gonna have all of it memorized, I don't think,
but I am gonna be sitting there with those words
in front of me.
But the other thing is like when you go to Pearl Studios
or Ripley Greer or something, you're just guaranteed
to see someone that you know.
Oh yeah.
And so that can take you out of whatever you're preparing.

(05:32):
So you've gotta make sure that you've done your homework
so that you know what your grounding point is
so that you know your way back into the material.
Yeah, yeah, you have to, a great teacher told me
really deepen for yourself the moment before.
The moment before you're speaking
in this particular instance,
because it'll take you right back to that place viscerally.

(05:52):
Yeah.
If you make that real for yourself,
well that moment before you go in, just drop right back
into it, and there you are, you're back in the exact
right place, I think.
And then it doesn't matter who you run into,
or you know, for me it doesn't matter because
if you've made something real for yourself,
you can't unreal it.
Right.
Pull it back, it's still there.

(06:13):
Yeah, yeah.
But what the hell do I know?
Honestly really, what the hell?
The other thing I like about in-person auditions is,
and I'm trying to be better about this,
but it's a mutual assessment process.
Like I, yes of course I am there to try to get the job
from the people behind the table,
but it's also an opportunity for me to go,

(06:34):
oh do I want to work with these people?
Really?
Oh yeah.
Oh, you're a better man than I.
I mean.
I can't tell anything, I can't tell anything.
I can't even remember who I met.
No, I really, I can't, I cannot remember who I met.
Just this summer when I was at Bucks County
doing Noises Off, one of our cast, my cast mates
was a reader for like three of my auditions

(06:56):
over the last year or whatever.
And you didn't remember?
I remembered by the time Noises Off happened
because she made a point to say to me
at the last audition, which was probably Noises Off,
hey, do you remember me?
I'm like, I do remember you.
What's your name?
It's just please tell me your name.
So that we could, because she was distinct and good.
You know, there's good readers and bad readers.

(07:17):
Yeah.
Oh my God, have you ever done it?
Been a reader?
You know, I have, but not for anything particularly high,
you know, high end, like the stakes.
I used to do it fairly regularly.
You'd be great at it.
I was, I really enjoyed it.
I really enjoyed it.
And it's fascinating being on that side of the table.
Yeah, you learn a ton.
Oh my God, I learned so much.

(07:39):
But there was an audition for a musical of Giant.
You know, the movie with James Dean and.
Yeah, Rock Hudson.
Rock Hudson and Liz Taylor.
So two cowboys and a woman,
and they only had me as the reader.
So all of these cowboys were coming in to read a scene,

(07:59):
a passionate love scene with a woman.
And I had to play the Liz Taylor role
and it got very broke back mountain.
That's amazing.
So for the afternoon session,
they found a woman to come in.
I mean, that's the thing.
Then you go, what are they thinking?
Oh my God, it got very broke back.
It was so weird.

(08:22):
Queered, more than weird.
That's funny.
Well, you know what though?
The actor that can rise above that
and see in your eyes, the eyes of the woman he's created.
That's the actor.
Whether he gets the job or not again, not the point.
I've had many people say, how'd you do?
And I'm like, I don't know if I got the job.
The part was mine for 15 minutes.

(08:42):
I know it was.
Oh yeah, that's a good way of looking at it.
You know, I really feel like I got in there.
Yeah.
I probably can count on one hand the auditions that I,
no, that's probably not true.
I'd probably say in my career,
I've had maybe nine or 10 auditions
that were I really triumphantly crashed and burned.
Like I spectacularly went down.
Oh, now I need to know.

(09:05):
Well, just recently I was auditioning for
that drag musical, Drag the Musical.
Drag the Musical, yeah.
I had done a self tape.
Which was fabulous.
For the initial thing that you read with me.
You're an amazing reader for that.
That's right.
You're a good reader.
You're such a good reader.
Self tape felt great.

(09:25):
I felt like it was solid.
When I watched it, it made me,
it transported me, which is unusual.
So I went, okay, good.
Sent it off.
Got a call back.
And just a perfect storm.
I couldn't sleep the night before at all.
Not because of the audition.
I think it was because of something I ate.
And I'm a great sleeper.
I mean, I'm blessed with, like, my head hits the pillow.

(09:48):
Eight hours later, I wake up.
I had a boyfriend who used to say,
there can't be a pillow on the bed when we have sex.
Because if your head touches it,
It touches it, it's over.
You'll be out for eight hours.
And so my brain cells weren't rubbing together.
So when I went in, I had to sing the same song

(10:10):
that I sang in the self tape.
But the lyrics were a little tricky.
Just a little tricky.
For some reason, I can't remember now why,
but it was easy to mix them up or something.
And the song had a piano intro
that I completely forgot it had.
So I just started cold.
I got the note and then started cold.
Of course, the piano player was like, oh, okay.
Let me catch up.

(10:30):
All right, yeah, here we go.
So he was a good egg.
And then I forgot the lyric.
Oh no. Right away.
And I had to say, I'm so sorry, you guys.
Let me start over.
This is, let, reset, redo, do over.
No problem, no problem.
And when I'd walked in, I'd greeted them all
very much like hello friends,
because they were all a bunch of cool people

(10:52):
that it was fun to be in the room with.
That's Alaska.
Yeah.
I would have lost my mind.
Yeah. Anyway.
And so I started again,
and I started without an intro again.
And then I went up again.
It was like that.
And I think I finally made it.
And PS, I had the lyrics in front of me.
You didn't really use them?

(11:12):
I had them in front of me.
Here's the thing.
The conventional wisdom is hold your script.
Yeah, totally.
I never, ever am not memorized in an audition
because I can't read and act at the same time.
I can't find my place
once I've been looking in the person's eyes.
Ah, right, right, right.
I just can't.
I can't go from visceral to back to one dimensional.

(11:33):
Yeah.
And back and forth.
Just, my brain just won't do it.
Right.
So even if I'm holding the damn words,
I'm only doing it for their benefit
because it puts them at ease.
And I'm memorized.
But I went up.
My brain was just not willing to work.
And I learned a really good lesson.
Make sure you sleep before an audition

(11:53):
because even if you have to take a pill.
That story reminded me though of a friend of mine,
an incredible performer, Sally Wilford.
She was telling me about her worst audition story.
She was auditioning for a musical
that she had been the artist that the writer used
during the development of the project.

(12:14):
Oh, yeah.
So she was the template for this character.
Oh no.
Of course, it was played off-Broadway
by somebody with a higher profile than she had.
But she knew that material.
So when it started going regional,
she was getting called in for it all the time.
And so she was singing the song

(12:35):
and went up on one of the lyrics.
She was like, oh, sorry.
Let's just go back a few parts.
Yep, start at the same.
Start there, okay.
Got to the same point, went up on the lyrics again.
She's like, oh my God, this is so embarrassing.
I know this material.
I know this song.
Oh my God.
I helped write it.
So, led back into it, got to the same point in the song,

(12:55):
went up in the lyric again.
And she was so embarrassed.
And somebody from behind the table
got up to go make a phone call.
She's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Nobody leaves the room until I finish the damn song.
Ha ha ha ha.
Gee, I wonder if she got that job.
I don't think she did.
No, I don't think she did.

(13:16):
I wonder if she's gonna be mad at you for telling that story.
Everybody's got their crush and burns.
Yeah.
And for me, the worst is when I picture it
like you're getting up speed to pierce through a membrane.
And if you don't and you just bounce off of it,
that's what it feels like.
I kind of redeemed myself a little bit in the scene,
but not enough.

(13:37):
And by then you can tell you've lost the room.
I learned a lesson last week.
It was three sides, one song,
one of the sides I'd been given that day.
And it turns out they didn't give me both pages
of that side.
I only got the second page.
So I got to the audition half an hour early

(13:59):
and there were sides waiting for me
because there was a whole-
That were different than-
Whole page of new material, which was fine.
That's unusual.
It was a mistake.
It was fine.
Of course, that was the side that the director wanted
to give me an adjustment on.
And looking back on it,
I questioned whether or not I should have said,
hey, this is the side that I know I'm the least familiar

(14:21):
with, can we work on something else?
Or does that then label me as, I don't know, whatever.
But I-
I don't think we're that subject to labels
in the audition.
I couldn't give the adjustment.
I didn't do what he asked me to do.
What would you have done in rehearsal?
So I questioned whether or not I should make that part

(14:43):
of my audition preparation.
Like, yes, show up on time, know the text, have an idea,
but then also have the second idea and the third idea
and the fourth idea.
Oh, oh, we've talked about this.
Yeah, and you know what my feeling is, right?
Tell me.
I think that's that way madness lies.
Because then you're trying to predict.
Oh yeah.

(15:03):
And you can't, you cannot predict.
Adjustments aren't hard for me if I'm listening.
I think the hard part is in auditions,
we're really struggling to listen
because we're on the spot.
Yeah.
And the best auditioners are ones that really listen.
Yeah.
I think.
They just, they go, uh-huh.
And they take a moment if they need to.
I've done that.
I've been like, okay, hold on a second.

(15:24):
Let me just see if I, let me make sure that that got in.
I was up for the writer in the producers, you know,
the Nazi writer.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it was, it was the full last supper behind the table.
Mel Brooks was there, Susan Stroman, and she was so.
The full last supper.
Oh, the full last supper behind the table,

(15:45):
like producers, you know, all the rest of it.
You know, and that was the audition when they said,
and Mel Brooks wants you to prepare a joke.
Like, it's part of the audition.
You have to prepare a joke for Mel Brooks.
But Susan Stroman got up, I did the material.
Susan Stroman got up from behind the table
and she came over to me and she came very close to me.
And you know, she was just speaking very quietly.
So it's just the two of us to hear.

(16:06):
And she gave me an adjustment and I'm standing there
thinking Susan Stroman is inches from my face right now.
I really need to listen to what she's saying to me.
And instead you're listening to her back.
And I'm just going, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
And she went back down and she sat down
and I did the material again.
And it wasn't until I was walking out of the room

(16:26):
that I was like, oh, that's what she wanted me to do.
I didn't take it.
Mind you, as I'm walking out the door,
Mel Brooks is yelling out, I think you're terrific, kid.
Yeah, I'll take that.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, yeah, I have said many times
that the subway platform after an audition
is a country girl without the tree.

(16:47):
Oh, that's what I was trying.
I couldn't get, but, duh.
Because it's just strangled.
Your creative thing, your third eye or whatever,
it's just like in a stranglehold because of whatever.
In-person auditions have the opportunity
for you to do what you actually do do,
which is send something out into the room

(17:10):
that only you can do.
And that's what I was trying to do.
Something out into the room that only you can send out.
Yeah, yeah.
I had a wonderful experience like that recently.
I did not book the job.
I had an audition for Tina Landau and for Floyd Collins.
Oh, I thought you meant to play Tina Landau.

(17:31):
No, no, no.
I was like, you'd be great.
She was the writer and the director.
And so Tina's very open-minded as a creator.
And so for the audition, they asked
us to prepare an up-tempo song or vaudeville song
with some sharp movement or choreography.

(17:51):
And it was so liberating because with that kind of instruction
going into the audition, you know
that you can't get it wrong.
Yeah.
That is so wide open to interpretation
that you can't get it wrong.
And so even it informed the performance
of my other material as well.
I was like, oh, I can do something unusual or weird

(18:13):
or what I would not normally do in an audition.
I can do it at this audition.
And it was electric because I was nervous about it.
And I was nervous about it, but it was also
like a one-time only opportunity.
And I knew that.

(18:34):
And they felt it too.
That's what's exciting about it.
And it was that feeling, that chemistry
between the table and me, it was so exciting.
That's a good thing to remember actually for auditions
is that it's really great to evoke for yourself
that feeling of like, this is a one-time deal.
The world's only going to see this once.
For the next 10 minutes, I'm it.

(18:57):
I've got the part.
You know what I mean?
It's mine to have and to express.
And also it's funny because your brain got permission
in that way or that's how you interpreted it.
You were in exactly the right space
that you'd want to be in an audition to take an adjustment.
Right.
I guess we have to give ourselves our brains.
We have to trick our brains into giving them permission

(19:18):
to let go of the way they prepared something
and be free to experience it anew.
And again, it comes back to listening.
It's like, I'm going to listen to this.
Now the director might just be giving you anything just
to see if you can take it.
That is also true.
You know?
So I do want to, I do have something else to say.

(19:38):
Then say it, Sister Margretta.
Maria makes me laugh.
Thank you for picking up that cue.
I love you for knowing that.
I think that, how can I not know that?
Then say it, Sister Margretta.
That particular audition that I'm thinking of was so epic
and so beyond the normal amount of material

(19:59):
to learn in a week.
And we both know there are certain casting directors
who are infamous for this.
And I often wonder if it's because either consciously
or unconsciously they're thinning the herd.
So they make it a real, because it will be like,
you've got three days to prepare five scenes
and two songs, you know?

(20:20):
I have a famous story about that.
There was a new production of The Phantom of the Opera
going out on tour.
Completely new production, new concept, new design.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And I was being auditioned for one of the managers.
And for the initial audition for the team from Britain,
the initial audition was the entire manager's scene.

(20:43):
That's a 10 minute, seven part harmony.
And it was 48 pages of music.
That's my memory, 48 pages of music.
And so I was already pretty familiar with the musical.
So I learned it in inverted commas.
And I went into the room and they said,

(21:05):
they said, oh, lovely to meet you.
Let's start with something from your book.
Oh.
Which I was not prepared for,
having prepared 48 pages of music.
And so I sang something from my book and they said,
thank you, lovely to meet you.
Thank you so much.
Oh my God.
And I picked up my material and I walked out the door

(21:26):
and I sat down on the bench and Mary Sugarman
from Tara Rubin casting came out of the door.
And before she even closed the door,
she was mouthing the words, I'm sorry.
I'm so sorry to meet you.
She knew.
I love her.
And I just looked at her and I said, 48 pages of music.
She's like, I know, I know, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.
So I gathered my stuff and I left.
And later that day got an email.

(21:50):
She had emailed my agent saying,
we're so sorry about Benjamin's experience.
And we tried to get him to come back in the room,
but he'd already left.
I'm looking at myself, you've already said no, thank you.
I'm not gonna walk back in the room just because.
We tried to get you to come back in the room.
I don't know if that's true, but that's what she said.
Maybe that's how they thought of it, but wow.
Anyway, I will tell you, I think I behaved well.

(22:12):
I don't think I behaved improperly
at any point during that session,
but that was the second last audition
that I had for Tara Rubin's office.
The last time they auditioned me,
it was for the same production.
And it was learned these three pages of music.
It was a cut, which is what it should have been
in the first place.
But I'm wondering if I need to go back into a pay for play,

(22:37):
meet a casting director thing with that office
because they just don't call me in.
Oh, that's a whole different conversation.
It is a whole different conversation.
I have a whole ethical thing about that.
But this has been a good one about in-person audition.
This has been a good audition.
I think I learned a lot.
If you have enjoyed this episode of The Working Actor NYC,
like and subscribe.

(22:58):
Oh yeah, like and subscribe.
That means click the thing and push the thing, right?
Yeah, see, that's what I would say.
And hit the two thumbs up.