February 17, 2025 • 22 mins
You still have to make money between acting jobs, so what do you do?
- - ACTUAL hustlers!
- - High school jobs
- - Can you do a show AND have a job?
- - Restaurant escapades
- - Mimes arent' scary!
- - Working for a world famous director
- - Teaching & coaching
- - Property princes & organizers
Name checked: Mike Nichols
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This episode of the Working Actor NYC may contain profanity and some adult concepts, so please use your discretion.
(00:05):
This is the Working Actor NYC. He's Benjamin Howes.
He's Patrick Richwood!
That's right, I am. Last time I looked.
I'm so happy you're Patrick Richwood.
What are we gonna talk about? What do you wanna talk about?
Today we are gonna talk about side hustles.
(00:25):
Oh, side hustles.
Because New York is expensive.
How dark do we wanna go? How blue can this get?
I had some side hustles back in the day.
Oh, you filthy whore. I am a filthy whore.
I've done it all.
Listen, if anybody would have paid me for it, I would have taken it.
(00:48):
But ain't nobody paying for what I was putting out.
Let me tell you something, honey. It's not the work, it's the stairs.
Oh my God, what is that from?
Some old hooker. Sometimes you just gotta straighten your seams and get out there and dance, honey.
Oh my God.
Okay, I do have a story for you. When I first moved to New York, I was on a student visa.
(01:13):
And so I was not allowed to work. So the money that I had brought from Australia was the money I had.
And before I left Australia, I had toured with Les Mis for two years. And we spent six months in Melbourne.
And on Friday and Saturday nights, while we were in Melbourne, I was a podium dancer at a gay bar in Melbourne.
You stood on a podium, like on the speaker with a tambourine and underwear?
(01:37):
We were allowed to wear whatever we wanted to.
We were paid for the shift. We had to do three 20-minute sets in a night. We got paid 180 bucks.
Do you know what I'm saying? It was just easy cash.
And there you are in Doc Martens and a dance belt.
No, I wore shorts and I wasn't...
You could wear whatever you wanted.
(01:58):
You weren't obligated to try and do anything nefarious.
And so I thought in my head, when I arrived in New York, I was like, I'm gonna do whatever.
And I thought in my head, when I arrived in New York, I was like, oh, maybe I can find a podium dancing job in New York when I get there.
Just to get cash.
Off the books.
You know? And within 10 days, my friend had taken me to a bar on 8th Avenue in Chelsea, Rawhide.
(02:23):
Rawhide. I remember that place.
And the night that we were there, there was a podium dancer.
Now, bear in mind, the podium was about six inches off the ground.
It wasn't a podium where you were separated from the masses.
The whole point was that you were very, very much available to the masses.
And there was this oiled up, muscly, Puerto Rican dude in white shorts and like just getting 20s slipped into his little white shorts so that everybody could feel him up.
(02:55):
I'm like, oh, I can't do that. Oh, I can't do that. No, no, no, no, no. Abort, abort. We're not doing that.
Backing away. Back out slowly. Just smile and nod. Back out slowly. Very...
Oh, no. I stayed and watched.
Yeah. I never did anything like that in real life. I did, once or twice, when I was young and cute, get mistaken for a hustler.
(03:17):
But I certainly never, you know, sought that out or anything like that.
I'm going to go back. What was the job that you had in high school?
I did not have a job in high school until...
Oh, trust fund baby, were you?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Hardly, darling.
So then what was your first job?
Well, I did have a paper route, but I hated it so much and my mother used to have to drag me out of bed on Sundays and help me to put the things in.
(03:44):
So I gave up on that. Then my first job out after high school was "Pizza Prince on Alameda,
May I help you?"
And I was the busboy and I was the dishwasher and I was the stand in waiter, which they never wanted me to do because I would like drop whole pizzas.
Horrifying.
Yeah. And it was run by this scuzzy guy named Tony or something with like, you know, one of those gold squiggly horn things around his neck and a wife-beater.
(04:14):
Like he was right out of a Scorsese movie.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, like a dated Scorsese movie.
But wait, your first Pirates of Penzance was you were 18.
Yes, but this was before that. This was when I was 17. You haven't lived until you've smelled weak old pizza dough at the bottom of a sink.
Oh my God.
Like that somebody forgot to clear it.
(04:35):
Just yeasty.
My God, it makes your skin curdle.
But you know, I learned how to wash dishes really efficiently and I was never afraid to wash dishes again.
Was that a skill that came in handy later on?
Did you wait tables in New York?
No, no, no, no. I just mean at home.
Okay.
Because washing dishes wasn't one of my jobs at home. I was in charge of taking out the trash, feeding the dog, cleaning the pool, mowing the lawn. Those were my jobs.
(05:03):
So when you were in New York, what was your side hustle? When you were like in the 80s?
What wasn't my side hustle? I was, I delivered airline tickets. I was a bike messenger.
Oh, that's right. The bike messenger.
I cleaned apartments. My very first job was cleaning apartments for a company called Lend A Hand.
And you cleaned some fancy apartments.
I cleaned some really great apartments.
(05:24):
I cleaned a loft in Soho that was so beautiful and the people asked me to just keep coming back.
Everywhere I went, the people were like, we want you. Can we just, we're not even, what's your number? We're just going to hire you. We'll pay you the whole thing.
And I wasn't supposed to do that. And I made such good friends. I made friends for life. I mean, until they're no longer with us.
Let me ask you something. When you're in a show like on Broadway, do you also do a side hustle to make extra money?
(05:50):
Depends what it is. Well, if I were a teacher, I would still be teaching. Oh, but I'm not a teacher. No.
But I mean, I have friends who, but you could do that. Yeah. Side hustle is teaching or whatever. And they just keep at it. They keep doing it. Yeah.
For sure. It's that interesting. When I'm in a show, you ain't doing shit. All I can do is the show. I always think I'm going to do this.
All you can do is the show. Really? The whole thing is geared towards the show. I'm told you I can only do one thing at a time.
(06:17):
Wow. Anyway, but in New York, what was your first side hustle? Oh no, your first job in high school. You, cause that's what you asked me.
Oh my God. My first job in high school. I worked at a men's clothing store. Oh, you did? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Of course. Cause I was very fashionable. Oh yeah. Maybe a little too fashionable for the gentleman who would visit. A little conspicuous.
(06:41):
I can't remember the name of the store, but you know, we sold, we were selling... North Shore gentlemen were coming in for their polo shirts and business shirts.
And I was trying to say, "This is really trendy. Look at the arrow collar on this!" You know, you finding everything you need. Okay.
I think in fact, I think one dude did actually say to me, "I would never wear that. Not only would I never wear that, I would never hire somebody who wore that."
(07:05):
Okay. Guess it won't be working for you then. Right. So that was, let me get you my colleague.
Then I started like working, like doing a show and then I was in a contemporary dance company. We both started working pretty early. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
(07:26):
I mean, you know, I did have, oh, I was an usher on Phantom of the Opera. You were? I have seen Phantom of the Opera more times than I have eaten spaghetti. That's fun.
I was an usher. What theater in Australia? In Australia. Theater. It's like that joke. How do you get an elephant out of the theater? You can't. It's in his blood.
(07:48):
That's my favorite joke. Never tell that joke to non-actors. They go like this. I don't get it.
It's hilarious. It really never fails. But the other job that I had, this wasn't a side hustle. This was the hustle, I guess, in a way, but I used to be the host or the emcee for Warner Brothers character shows in shopping malls over the summer holidays in Sydney.
(08:14):
There were these 20 minute shows that featured Bugs Bunny and you had the thing and I was the singing dancing emcee with the microphone who had to and there were stories. They weren't, you know, they weren't.
Did you have to do cheesy puns? Oh my God. Incessantly. Incessantly. Like what? Do you remember any of them?
(08:35):
But there were also like songs that were teachable audience interaction things. Like I was Robin the Boy Wonder in the Batman and Robin show. And the song that I had to sing was,
"You'd better stop, look and listen cause there's danger in the air. Stop, look and listen cause you don't know what's out there. Get ready to jump from side to side and sneak around with a snake like glide."
(08:58):
How can I remember that? That was - practically Cole Porter - 30 years ago. Oh my God. It's amazing the things that stick - stay in. Isn't it? I'm so glad that one stayed with me.
In fact, I was working at the pizza place when I booked the Pirates of Penzance and I remember the guy, that guy that I described Tony or whatever his name is. I think his name is Ed. I said I'm going to leave and you know, and in another month I got a job and he's going to take me on and he's like, what? You're going to what? You're going to go on tour with what?
(09:32):
It's like, you'll be back. Did you ever go back? I laughed right in his face. I was like, that's hilarious. No, I'm going to Broadway. Well, even if I wasn't didn't think I was going to Broadway, I'm certainly not going to. Gee, I can't wait to, you know, my allegiance.
"I hope they keep my position open!". Exactly. Pizza Prince. Yeah. Pizza Prince on Alameda. Well, so then when I moved to America, I just started waiting tables. I had waited tables in Sydney, but it's a different beast. Yeah. In Sydney, there are no tips. Oh, that's right. There are no tips. So you just get paid, which get paid. But it's a better salary.
(10:14):
It's yes, it's a better salary, but you make less money. Right. It's a better hourly wage, but you make less money because in New York, you're getting tipped. Right. And I was getting tipped a lot in New York. I was a good waiter. I bet I was.
And then I transitioned into restaurant management, but it was one of those situations where I could go into a show and they would always need me when I came back, you know. Yeah. So it was a very good situation for me. I was never a waiter. I couldn't get a job as a waiter. Did you try?
(10:46):
I used to go up and down in those days in the early eighties, Columbus Avenue was the new thing. And it was where all the restaurants were on the Upper West Side and all the hip new restaurants. And I used to go up and down Columbus Avenue, one after the other with my little outfit
restaurant. Nice. And I go to apply and they'd say, Oh, we just hired yesterday. Come back, you know, in a month or we're not hiring until tomorrow. Come back tomorrow. And then I'd come back the next day and they'd say, we just hired yesterday. And it happened so many times and I saw who they were hiring. It's like that song from a chorus line. You know, I saw what they were hiring. I looked at my dance card.
(11:20):
I realized that they were hiring at that time in New York. It was trendy to be hiring waspy kind of, you know, good looking, tall, surfery kinds of people, you know, men and women. That's just they were going for - a look. It's funny because they were going for a look, not quality. And not that I would have brought any quality and didn't have a drop of experience as a waiter, except the time I dropped the everything pizza on the guy and his family of eight or whatever.
(11:49):
It ruined an entire family's experience at Pizza Prince on Alameda. So did you try lying to them and tell them you were really experienced? Oh yeah, I always told them I was really experienced, but I never got far enough to show to prove, you know, for them to say, "No, you're not, get out!" because they never hired me. And I realized years later, it's because something in me unbeknownst to me was screaming, "Don't hire me. I'm going to be terrible at this. Don't hire me!" Well, no, not because I'm going to be a waiter.
(12:17):
Don't hire me. Well, no, not because I'm going to be terrible at this because this is not what I want to do. My mom always said, don't don't find something to fall back on because then you'll fall back.
I used to feel the same way. Like, yeah, my mom was convinced I was going to be a great lawyer because I argued about everything.
But I couldn't go to law school. I knew that.
(12:40):
I could just picture your mom saying, you're so contrary and you're saying, I am not. Exactly right. You always have to have the last word, don't you? No, I don't. No.
So funny. All right. So there you are. So I knew, but I knew that I was never going to like, if I went to law school, that would be it.
(13:01):
I would have been sucked in. The creative door would lock, close and lock behind you. That's how I always felt, too. That's why I never I never I never really took a job thinking this is it.
Now I'm sad, sad while I suppose while I, you know, supplement because I thought this is I don't want to get sucked in by anything. But I think right.
Right. Ever. Yeah. No, in New York, I waited tables and until I couldn't do it anymore. Yeah. And thankfully, my husband and I had been together for a long time at that point. And so he had a job where I didn't have to work between gigs.
(13:33):
And I may have let my skills slide. Thank you, daddy. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. I never had. I always thought. And then I will say sorry, just to wrap that up.
Years later, I tried to go back into it. So waiting to restaurant management. Oh, yeah. Couldn't do it. No, couldn't do it.
It was an and a level of energy commitment. I just wasn't willing to give. Yeah, I understand. It was the not having the patience to deal with people's bullshit. Yeah, I just I just lost interest in caring about
(14:05):
whether your eggs were overcooked or undercooked. I'm like, it's just fucking eggs, bitch. I don't care. I always had interesting jobs. I was a street mime one time handing out flyers.
Now I'm picturing like the Chicago girls in Times Square with the red stockings. Yeah, no, I was really like a classical mime. But this was again in the early 80s and and mimes.
(14:27):
Marcel Marceau was still alive. Marcel Marceau was still very much alive and he was a huge inspiration for me as a little kid. Oh, that's another side hustle I had. I worked for Mike Nichols. What did you do for Mike? I worked cleaning up after the construction crew at his house.
So he owned two brownstones next to each other on the east side. One was his offices with his staff and the other was his home where his kids lived and his wife Annabel at the time was who he was married to.
(14:53):
And there was a giant backyard that was part of the house and there was a pass through. Right. And there was always construction going on with like the Winchester fucking mansion over there. Never was anything they would do an entire like giant round made to order window in the, you know, master bedroom.
And Mike would come in and say, hmm, it needs to be two inches to the right. They'd have to start all over again. Oh, good Lord. He was so eccentric and interesting. Did I ever tell you I worked for him? No, you don't tell me shit.
(15:18):
One time we had to move, he had to move a great big plant that he had bought a tropical like one of a kind plant that was like $5,000 plant. Okay. That he was taking to a house warming for some fancy person, you know, some really fancy person. Okay. I don't know who.
And he said, Patrick, can you please help me move this thing down? I've got to get it into the car, like the taxi or whatever. And I was like, oh, of course. So we're moving and we're literally it's a it's a comedy routine. It's like from out of your Show Of Shows.
(15:45):
We're going down step by step of his brownstone. He's going, "Another inch to your right. No, you're right. Not my right. Now it's take a step down to the left foot. Your left foot, my right foot. Okay. Step back up. I'm not ready yet. Okay.
I'm coming back this way. This way. Yeah, this way." But all the way down. And when we finally got the plant, he said, "Thank you." I said, "Do you think I could put directed by Mike Nichols on my resume?"
(16:06):
Please tell me he laughed. He did. He laughed. And years later, he remembered me. Well, that was nice. We had a laugh together. All you need to do is have a laugh with someone and they'll remember you.
So have you ever taught? You teach now or you do coaching now. I coach now, but I've taught in lecture or conservatory style. Like I've gone to schools and done workshops. Right. I'm not, I don't have a teaching degree, so I can't be a teacher. Right. Right. Right.
(16:40):
So the teaching that you do now is all online. No, no, I still well, it has been recently, but no, I still go off and do workshops like, whenever I work at a theater, I always try and hook up with the educational department. Yeah.
And I always let them know this is what I do. You can go online, you can see what I can do with workshops and all these kinds of things. And they're fun and they're engaging and there is it's something to put into your, your brochure. Yeah.
(17:07):
And here's what I charge and here's what we can do and you know, put me up and find me there and I do it. So I've done it that way. So like a theater Aspen or the Riverside or wherever theaters that I've done.
And then my coaching is separate. My coaching is like my coaching programs where I - that's either life coaching or it's specifically coaching people who have speaker anxiety, like they're they've got stage fright. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Oh, that is specific.
(17:32):
Yeah, but that is, that's how I started my coaching business. It's called Fear Schmear because, my whole company is called Fear Schmear because I discovered - I was at a convention. I was at a conference of entrepreneurs.
Uh huh. And I was there to see if I could devise a business. Yeah. And it was a conference about building your business and stuff. And I knew the people leading it. So they invited me. And in the course of that conference, I saw that about half of the people in there
(17:58):
that were entrepreneurs that needed to develop a keynote speech and needed to be able to speak in front of on public to take their business to the next level and pitch and pitch and everything. Yeah. And they were terrified. Right. Right. And I went. That's an opportunity right there.
That's a need. I can fill it. I use the fundamentals of acting, not the parts where we pretend to be someone else, but the parts where we've learned to displace our attention because I've been on busy, high end, super high pressure sets, film and TV sets over the years and had to deliver on a dime over and over again.
(18:33):
Yeah. And still make people laugh. And you've got hand-wringing executives and it's on commercials. I must have done 100 commercials. Right. At least a third of them are terribly, terribly, terribly, were terribly high pressure. Right. So you develop techniques that take your attention off of that and put it somewhere else. Oh yeah. In basically the story. And so I use those techniques to coach people. That's a great side hustle though because it's a great side hustle. You're using all of your experience. Yeah.
(19:02):
As an actor. Yeah. That's right. But it's helping other people and they pay you for it. Yeah. They pay me a lot. That's the best side hustle ever. It really is. I don't think of that as a side hustle. Isn't that funny? I do not think of that as a side hustle. I think of that as its whole vocation. And that's the only time other than directing I've ever veered away from acting. Ever. Ever. Ever. Because I'll make money making paintings and drawing and stuff.
(19:29):
And I do all the murals, whatever. But those are side hustles. Or just fun projects. I never think of the coaching as side hustling. You can learn more at PatrickRichwood.com. Oh we're going to cut all of that. No we're not. No we're just a giant commercial. No we're not. Let's go back to side hustle because it's really fun.
(19:51):
Well from here I go into it. Yeah my side hustle now is being a landlord. You know. But yeah but that's a great side. Well listen. It's a very privileged side hustle. I don't know if I would classify that as privileged because I have seen how hard you've worked. Oh well it's definitely a job. And I've seen how you've poured every shekel into it. You know I really have. And I haven't known you that long. But I've seen basically because you're constantly
(20:21):
bitching about it. And I'm always like shut up about your stupid apartment for crying out. No no I've seen how tirelessly you have worked worked worked hard. So I wouldn't categorize it as privileged. You know it's great that you own something and that you're able to own something but you've worked super super hard for it.
(20:43):
But I do think also that we learn along the way we learn from each of our side hustles a little bit more about ourselves even if it's just surviving. Yeah. Even if it's just like oh I can I can survive this you know or I can master it. There was a part of me that was sort of a little bit devastated when I discovered that I'm good at managing restaurants. You know because I was like oh well fuck. Now I do have something to fall back on. But can I be good at something else besides managing restaurants? But it was nice to use that part of
(21:13):
my brain. Yeah those business businessy parts of my brain that I don't necessarily engage with in my in my acting. You know what I discovered that about - another side hustle I have which is organizing people's space. Oh yeah. So it turns out that I have a really spatial way of remember, of learning. Yeah. I can take a look at someone's closet. Yeah. That's a mess. Yeah. And say here's how much space I can get you back. Here's how much we can get jettison. Here's how we would do it.
(21:43):
Organize it all without taking any measurements because my brain works that way. Right. It's fun for me to engage that part of my brain. Right. Right. You know and really utilize it and let it. The exercise is fun. You know air it out. Yeah. Yeah.
I totally get that. Yeah. That's another side gig between the two of us. Right. Did we figure out that we have about 70 years of experience in show business because you've got maybe 30 and I've got 40 right. I'm up at 40 now. Are you. So we have 80 years of experience.
(22:18):
Oh my God. In show business. Somebody get me a new hip. Well it's really only 40 but it's double. Somebody get me a new hip.
This episode of the Working Actor NYC may contain profanity and some adult concepts, so please use your discretion.
(00:05):
This is the Working Actor NYC. He's Benjamin Howes.
He's Patrick Richwood!
That's right, I am. Last time I looked.
I'm so happy you're Patrick Richwood.
What are we gonna talk about? What do you wanna talk about?
Today we are gonna talk about side hustles.
(00:25):
Oh, side hustles.
Because New York is expensive.
How dark do we wanna go? How blue can this get?
I had some side hustles back in the day.
Oh, you filthy whore. I am a filthy whore.
I've done it all.
Listen, if anybody would have paid me for it, I would have taken it.
(00:48):
But ain't nobody paying for what I was putting out.
Let me tell you something, honey. It's not the work, it's the stairs.
Oh my God, what is that from?
Some old hooker. Sometimes you just gotta straighten your seams and get out there and dance, honey.
Oh my God.
Okay, I do have a story for you. When I first moved to New York, I was on a student visa.
(01:13):
And so I was not allowed to work. So the money that I had brought from Australia was the money I had.
And before I left Australia, I had toured with Les Mis for two years. And we spent six months in Melbourne.
And on Friday and Saturday nights, while we were in Melbourne, I was a podium dancer at a gay bar in Melbourne.
You stood on a podium, like on the speaker with a tambourine and underwear?
(01:37):
We were allowed to wear whatever we wanted to.
We were paid for the shift. We had to do three 20-minute sets in a night. We got paid 180 bucks.
Do you know what I'm saying? It was just easy cash.
And there you are in Doc Martens and a dance belt.
No, I wore shorts and I wasn't...
You could wear whatever you wanted.
(01:58):
You weren't obligated to try and do anything nefarious.
And so I thought in my head, when I arrived in New York, I was like, I'm gonna do whatever.
And I thought in my head, when I arrived in New York, I was like, oh, maybe I can find a podium dancing job in New York when I get there.
Just to get cash.
Off the books.
You know? And within 10 days, my friend had taken me to a bar on 8th Avenue in Chelsea, Rawhide.
(02:23):
Rawhide. I remember that place.
And the night that we were there, there was a podium dancer.
Now, bear in mind, the podium was about six inches off the ground.
It wasn't a podium where you were separated from the masses.
The whole point was that you were very, very much available to the masses.
And there was this oiled up, muscly, Puerto Rican dude in white shorts and like just getting 20s slipped into his little white shorts so that everybody could feel him up.
(02:55):
I'm like, oh, I can't do that. Oh, I can't do that. No, no, no, no, no. Abort, abort. We're not doing that.
Backing away. Back out slowly. Just smile and nod. Back out slowly. Very...
Oh, no. I stayed and watched.
Yeah. I never did anything like that in real life. I did, once or twice, when I was young and cute, get mistaken for a hustler.
(03:17):
But I certainly never, you know, sought that out or anything like that.
I'm going to go back. What was the job that you had in high school?
I did not have a job in high school until...
Oh, trust fund baby, were you?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Hardly, darling.
So then what was your first job?
Well, I did have a paper route, but I hated it so much and my mother used to have to drag me out of bed on Sundays and help me to put the things in.
(03:44):
So I gave up on that. Then my first job out after high school was "Pizza Prince on Alameda,
May I help you?"
And I was the busboy and I was the dishwasher and I was the stand in waiter, which they never wanted me to do because I would like drop whole pizzas.
Horrifying.
Yeah. And it was run by this scuzzy guy named Tony or something with like, you know, one of those gold squiggly horn things around his neck and a wife-beater.
(04:14):
Like he was right out of a Scorsese movie.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, like a dated Scorsese movie.
But wait, your first Pirates of Penzance was you were 18.
Yes, but this was before that. This was when I was 17. You haven't lived until you've smelled weak old pizza dough at the bottom of a sink.
Oh my God.
Like that somebody forgot to clear it.
(04:35):
Just yeasty.
My God, it makes your skin curdle.
But you know, I learned how to wash dishes really efficiently and I was never afraid to wash dishes again.
Was that a skill that came in handy later on?
Did you wait tables in New York?
No, no, no, no. I just mean at home.
Okay.
Because washing dishes wasn't one of my jobs at home. I was in charge of taking out the trash, feeding the dog, cleaning the pool, mowing the lawn. Those were my jobs.
(05:03):
So when you were in New York, what was your side hustle? When you were like in the 80s?
What wasn't my side hustle? I was, I delivered airline tickets. I was a bike messenger.
Oh, that's right. The bike messenger.
I cleaned apartments. My very first job was cleaning apartments for a company called Lend A Hand.
And you cleaned some fancy apartments.
I cleaned some really great apartments.
(05:24):
I cleaned a loft in Soho that was so beautiful and the people asked me to just keep coming back.
Everywhere I went, the people were like, we want you. Can we just, we're not even, what's your number? We're just going to hire you. We'll pay you the whole thing.
And I wasn't supposed to do that. And I made such good friends. I made friends for life. I mean, until they're no longer with us.
Let me ask you something. When you're in a show like on Broadway, do you also do a side hustle to make extra money?
(05:50):
Depends what it is. Well, if I were a teacher, I would still be teaching. Oh, but I'm not a teacher. No.
But I mean, I have friends who, but you could do that. Yeah. Side hustle is teaching or whatever. And they just keep at it. They keep doing it. Yeah.
For sure. It's that interesting. When I'm in a show, you ain't doing shit. All I can do is the show. I always think I'm going to do this.
All you can do is the show. Really? The whole thing is geared towards the show. I'm told you I can only do one thing at a time.
(06:17):
Wow. Anyway, but in New York, what was your first side hustle? Oh no, your first job in high school. You, cause that's what you asked me.
Oh my God. My first job in high school. I worked at a men's clothing store. Oh, you did? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Of course. Cause I was very fashionable. Oh yeah. Maybe a little too fashionable for the gentleman who would visit. A little conspicuous.
(06:41):
I can't remember the name of the store, but you know, we sold, we were selling... North Shore gentlemen were coming in for their polo shirts and business shirts.
And I was trying to say, "This is really trendy. Look at the arrow collar on this!" You know, you finding everything you need. Okay.
I think in fact, I think one dude did actually say to me, "I would never wear that. Not only would I never wear that, I would never hire somebody who wore that."
(07:05):
Okay. Guess it won't be working for you then. Right. So that was, let me get you my colleague.
Then I started like working, like doing a show and then I was in a contemporary dance company. We both started working pretty early. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
(07:26):
I mean, you know, I did have, oh, I was an usher on Phantom of the Opera. You were? I have seen Phantom of the Opera more times than I have eaten spaghetti. That's fun.
I was an usher. What theater in Australia? In Australia. Theater. It's like that joke. How do you get an elephant out of the theater? You can't. It's in his blood.
(07:48):
That's my favorite joke. Never tell that joke to non-actors. They go like this. I don't get it.
It's hilarious. It really never fails. But the other job that I had, this wasn't a side hustle. This was the hustle, I guess, in a way, but I used to be the host or the emcee for Warner Brothers character shows in shopping malls over the summer holidays in Sydney.
(08:14):
There were these 20 minute shows that featured Bugs Bunny and you had the thing and I was the singing dancing emcee with the microphone who had to and there were stories. They weren't, you know, they weren't.
Did you have to do cheesy puns? Oh my God. Incessantly. Incessantly. Like what? Do you remember any of them?
(08:35):
But there were also like songs that were teachable audience interaction things. Like I was Robin the Boy Wonder in the Batman and Robin show. And the song that I had to sing was,
"You'd better stop, look and listen cause there's danger in the air. Stop, look and listen cause you don't know what's out there. Get ready to jump from side to side and sneak around with a snake like glide."
(08:58):
How can I remember that? That was - practically Cole Porter - 30 years ago. Oh my God. It's amazing the things that stick - stay in. Isn't it? I'm so glad that one stayed with me.
In fact, I was working at the pizza place when I booked the Pirates of Penzance and I remember the guy, that guy that I described Tony or whatever his name is. I think his name is Ed. I said I'm going to leave and you know, and in another month I got a job and he's going to take me on and he's like, what? You're going to what? You're going to go on tour with what?
(09:32):
It's like, you'll be back. Did you ever go back? I laughed right in his face. I was like, that's hilarious. No, I'm going to Broadway. Well, even if I wasn't didn't think I was going to Broadway, I'm certainly not going to. Gee, I can't wait to, you know, my allegiance.
"I hope they keep my position open!". Exactly. Pizza Prince. Yeah. Pizza Prince on Alameda. Well, so then when I moved to America, I just started waiting tables. I had waited tables in Sydney, but it's a different beast. Yeah. In Sydney, there are no tips. Oh, that's right. There are no tips. So you just get paid, which get paid. But it's a better salary.
(10:14):
It's yes, it's a better salary, but you make less money. Right. It's a better hourly wage, but you make less money because in New York, you're getting tipped. Right. And I was getting tipped a lot in New York. I was a good waiter. I bet I was.
And then I transitioned into restaurant management, but it was one of those situations where I could go into a show and they would always need me when I came back, you know. Yeah. So it was a very good situation for me. I was never a waiter. I couldn't get a job as a waiter. Did you try?
(10:46):
I used to go up and down in those days in the early eighties, Columbus Avenue was the new thing. And it was where all the restaurants were on the Upper West Side and all the hip new restaurants. And I used to go up and down Columbus Avenue, one after the other with my little outfit
restaurant. Nice. And I go to apply and they'd say, Oh, we just hired yesterday. Come back, you know, in a month or we're not hiring until tomorrow. Come back tomorrow. And then I'd come back the next day and they'd say, we just hired yesterday. And it happened so many times and I saw who they were hiring. It's like that song from a chorus line. You know, I saw what they were hiring. I looked at my dance card.
(11:20):
I realized that they were hiring at that time in New York. It was trendy to be hiring waspy kind of, you know, good looking, tall, surfery kinds of people, you know, men and women. That's just they were going for - a look. It's funny because they were going for a look, not quality. And not that I would have brought any quality and didn't have a drop of experience as a waiter, except the time I dropped the everything pizza on the guy and his family of eight or whatever.
(11:49):
It ruined an entire family's experience at Pizza Prince on Alameda. So did you try lying to them and tell them you were really experienced? Oh yeah, I always told them I was really experienced, but I never got far enough to show to prove, you know, for them to say, "No, you're not, get out!" because they never hired me. And I realized years later, it's because something in me unbeknownst to me was screaming, "Don't hire me. I'm going to be terrible at this. Don't hire me!" Well, no, not because I'm going to be a waiter.
(12:17):
Don't hire me. Well, no, not because I'm going to be terrible at this because this is not what I want to do. My mom always said, don't don't find something to fall back on because then you'll fall back.
I used to feel the same way. Like, yeah, my mom was convinced I was going to be a great lawyer because I argued about everything.
But I couldn't go to law school. I knew that.
(12:40):
I could just picture your mom saying, you're so contrary and you're saying, I am not. Exactly right. You always have to have the last word, don't you? No, I don't. No.
So funny. All right. So there you are. So I knew, but I knew that I was never going to like, if I went to law school, that would be it.
(13:01):
I would have been sucked in. The creative door would lock, close and lock behind you. That's how I always felt, too. That's why I never I never I never really took a job thinking this is it.
Now I'm sad, sad while I suppose while I, you know, supplement because I thought this is I don't want to get sucked in by anything. But I think right.
Right. Ever. Yeah. No, in New York, I waited tables and until I couldn't do it anymore. Yeah. And thankfully, my husband and I had been together for a long time at that point. And so he had a job where I didn't have to work between gigs.
(13:33):
And I may have let my skills slide. Thank you, daddy. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. I never had. I always thought. And then I will say sorry, just to wrap that up.
Years later, I tried to go back into it. So waiting to restaurant management. Oh, yeah. Couldn't do it. No, couldn't do it.
It was an and a level of energy commitment. I just wasn't willing to give. Yeah, I understand. It was the not having the patience to deal with people's bullshit. Yeah, I just I just lost interest in caring about
(14:05):
whether your eggs were overcooked or undercooked. I'm like, it's just fucking eggs, bitch. I don't care. I always had interesting jobs. I was a street mime one time handing out flyers.
Now I'm picturing like the Chicago girls in Times Square with the red stockings. Yeah, no, I was really like a classical mime. But this was again in the early 80s and and mimes.
(14:27):
Marcel Marceau was still alive. Marcel Marceau was still very much alive and he was a huge inspiration for me as a little kid. Oh, that's another side hustle I had. I worked for Mike Nichols. What did you do for Mike? I worked cleaning up after the construction crew at his house.
So he owned two brownstones next to each other on the east side. One was his offices with his staff and the other was his home where his kids lived and his wife Annabel at the time was who he was married to.
(14:53):
And there was a giant backyard that was part of the house and there was a pass through. Right. And there was always construction going on with like the Winchester fucking mansion over there. Never was anything they would do an entire like giant round made to order window in the, you know, master bedroom.
And Mike would come in and say, hmm, it needs to be two inches to the right. They'd have to start all over again. Oh, good Lord. He was so eccentric and interesting. Did I ever tell you I worked for him? No, you don't tell me shit.
(15:18):
One time we had to move, he had to move a great big plant that he had bought a tropical like one of a kind plant that was like $5,000 plant. Okay. That he was taking to a house warming for some fancy person, you know, some really fancy person. Okay. I don't know who.
And he said, Patrick, can you please help me move this thing down? I've got to get it into the car, like the taxi or whatever. And I was like, oh, of course. So we're moving and we're literally it's a it's a comedy routine. It's like from out of your Show Of Shows.
(15:45):
We're going down step by step of his brownstone. He's going, "Another inch to your right. No, you're right. Not my right. Now it's take a step down to the left foot. Your left foot, my right foot. Okay. Step back up. I'm not ready yet. Okay.
I'm coming back this way. This way. Yeah, this way." But all the way down. And when we finally got the plant, he said, "Thank you." I said, "Do you think I could put directed by Mike Nichols on my resume?"
(16:06):
Please tell me he laughed. He did. He laughed. And years later, he remembered me. Well, that was nice. We had a laugh together. All you need to do is have a laugh with someone and they'll remember you.
So have you ever taught? You teach now or you do coaching now. I coach now, but I've taught in lecture or conservatory style. Like I've gone to schools and done workshops. Right. I'm not, I don't have a teaching degree, so I can't be a teacher. Right. Right. Right.
(16:40):
So the teaching that you do now is all online. No, no, I still well, it has been recently, but no, I still go off and do workshops like, whenever I work at a theater, I always try and hook up with the educational department. Yeah.
And I always let them know this is what I do. You can go online, you can see what I can do with workshops and all these kinds of things. And they're fun and they're engaging and there is it's something to put into your, your brochure. Yeah.
(17:07):
And here's what I charge and here's what we can do and you know, put me up and find me there and I do it. So I've done it that way. So like a theater Aspen or the Riverside or wherever theaters that I've done.
And then my coaching is separate. My coaching is like my coaching programs where I - that's either life coaching or it's specifically coaching people who have speaker anxiety, like they're they've got stage fright. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Oh, that is specific.
(17:32):
Yeah, but that is, that's how I started my coaching business. It's called Fear Schmear because, my whole company is called Fear Schmear because I discovered - I was at a convention. I was at a conference of entrepreneurs.
Uh huh. And I was there to see if I could devise a business. Yeah. And it was a conference about building your business and stuff. And I knew the people leading it. So they invited me. And in the course of that conference, I saw that about half of the people in there
(17:58):
that were entrepreneurs that needed to develop a keynote speech and needed to be able to speak in front of on public to take their business to the next level and pitch and pitch and everything. Yeah. And they were terrified. Right. Right. And I went. That's an opportunity right there.
That's a need. I can fill it. I use the fundamentals of acting, not the parts where we pretend to be someone else, but the parts where we've learned to displace our attention because I've been on busy, high end, super high pressure sets, film and TV sets over the years and had to deliver on a dime over and over again.
(18:33):
Yeah. And still make people laugh. And you've got hand-wringing executives and it's on commercials. I must have done 100 commercials. Right. At least a third of them are terribly, terribly, terribly, were terribly high pressure. Right. So you develop techniques that take your attention off of that and put it somewhere else. Oh yeah. In basically the story. And so I use those techniques to coach people. That's a great side hustle though because it's a great side hustle. You're using all of your experience. Yeah.
(19:02):
As an actor. Yeah. That's right. But it's helping other people and they pay you for it. Yeah. They pay me a lot. That's the best side hustle ever. It really is. I don't think of that as a side hustle. Isn't that funny? I do not think of that as a side hustle. I think of that as its whole vocation. And that's the only time other than directing I've ever veered away from acting. Ever. Ever. Ever. Because I'll make money making paintings and drawing and stuff.
(19:29):
And I do all the murals, whatever. But those are side hustles. Or just fun projects. I never think of the coaching as side hustling. You can learn more at PatrickRichwood.com. Oh we're going to cut all of that. No we're not. No we're just a giant commercial. No we're not. Let's go back to side hustle because it's really fun.
(19:51):
Well from here I go into it. Yeah my side hustle now is being a landlord. You know. But yeah but that's a great side. Well listen. It's a very privileged side hustle. I don't know if I would classify that as privileged because I have seen how hard you've worked. Oh well it's definitely a job. And I've seen how you've poured every shekel into it. You know I really have. And I haven't known you that long. But I've seen basically because you're constantly
(20:21):
bitching about it. And I'm always like shut up about your stupid apartment for crying out. No no I've seen how tirelessly you have worked worked worked hard. So I wouldn't categorize it as privileged. You know it's great that you own something and that you're able to own something but you've worked super super hard for it.
(20:43):
But I do think also that we learn along the way we learn from each of our side hustles a little bit more about ourselves even if it's just surviving. Yeah. Even if it's just like oh I can I can survive this you know or I can master it. There was a part of me that was sort of a little bit devastated when I discovered that I'm good at managing restaurants. You know because I was like oh well fuck. Now I do have something to fall back on. But can I be good at something else besides managing restaurants? But it was nice to use that part of
(21:13):
my brain. Yeah those business businessy parts of my brain that I don't necessarily engage with in my in my acting. You know what I discovered that about - another side hustle I have which is organizing people's space. Oh yeah. So it turns out that I have a really spatial way of remember, of learning. Yeah. I can take a look at someone's closet. Yeah. That's a mess. Yeah. And say here's how much space I can get you back. Here's how much we can get jettison. Here's how we would do it.
(21:43):
Organize it all without taking any measurements because my brain works that way. Right. It's fun for me to engage that part of my brain. Right. Right. You know and really utilize it and let it. The exercise is fun. You know air it out. Yeah. Yeah.
I totally get that. Yeah. That's another side gig between the two of us. Right. Did we figure out that we have about 70 years of experience in show business because you've got maybe 30 and I've got 40 right. I'm up at 40 now. Are you. So we have 80 years of experience.
(22:18):
Oh my God. In show business. Somebody get me a new hip. Well it's really only 40 but it's double. Somebody get me a new hip.
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