October 8, 2025 • 49 mins
Ivona Siniarska has been to Africa 40 times and the founder and managing director of travel booker Take Off Go says it's more than a destination, "it's a deep-seated emotion".
From Kenya to South Africa, Ivona talks to us about the best places to go, where to start for first-timers, and how to ensure you're travelling in a way that's right by the wildlife, and ensures you are able to make the most of the experience, https://www.takeoffgo.com/
Also, loud talkers, crowding the luggage carousel and throwing your plane seat back… these are just some of the things that give us the ick when we travel, according to Vodafone.
And the Great Aussie Pie Competition results are in - listen in for where to get the best pie in Australia. Road trips just got a whole lot more delicious, https://greataussiepiecomp.com.au/
Read Kirstie's shortlisted adventure story for the Australian Society of Travel Writers' Excellence Awards about Sardinia and Belle's shortlisted culinary story about eating in Oman.
Belle has also been shortlisted for the 2025 Travel Writer of the Year award; her stories include AlUla in Saudi Arabia and Moor, Please! A fabulous self-guided journey on Spain's public trains from Seville to Jerez and Cadiz, with Inntravel.
And if you'd like to hear Belle chatting with 2GB about her cover story about travelling through Tunisia with Intrepid Travel, and the goat that tried to derail it all, listen here, https://omny.fm/shows/2gb-afternoons/travel-tunisia
Visit us at https://theworldawaits.au
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
Welcome to The World Awaits.
Travel Tales to Inspire YourWonderlust.
Welcome back to The WorldAwaits.
How are you all?
How's your week been, Kirsty?
SPEAKER_01 (00:14):
I have had such a good week.
Um, I'm so excited because mystory in Australian Geographic
about cycling around Sardinia,which for our longtime listeners
will be sick of hearing about,one of the finalists in the
Australian Travel Rider Awards,and you're a finalist too.
SPEAKER_02 (00:32):
Snap, I am too.
I've been shortlisted in theBest Culinary Story Award for a
feature I wrote about absolutelystuffing my chops in Oman.
Yum, yum, bring it on.
And if you'd like to read aboutwhat you should be eating in
Oman, I'll put a link to thatstory in the show notes.
But, friends, you are hangingwith the stars.
You already knew that.
But um also I have just beenshortlisted for the top award,
(00:56):
which is the travel writer ofthe year, whose acronym is
actually Twati, um, which doesnot detract from the award at
all.
I did win it the year beforelast, and it was such a joy.
After so many years of writingin a void, I did feel loved.
Um, so to enter the award, youhad to submit three stories.
So I put in one about uh Alulain Saudi Arabia being the
(01:18):
hottest place on the planet, ina travel fashion sense, not
because like it's a desert.
And my second story was anotherstory about Oman, published in
Luxury Escape's Dream magazine.
And the third was a cover storyfor the Sydney Morning Herald,
and it was about the mostfantastic self-guided tour by
train, which I took throughsouthern Andalusia in Spain with
(01:40):
a fantastic company called InTravel.
So I'm gonna put links to thoseplaces and stories in the show
notes as well, which you can seeon our website, which is
thewordawaits.au.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
And as this goes to air, I am also going to be
winging my way back from Tahiti.
So um I was, we're timetraveling a bit, sorry, people.
Um, but I was um the onlyAustralian or New Zealand
journalist attending Tahiti'sfirst international yoga
festival.
So um I'm also, I know this isI'm so fortunate, but I'm also
(02:15):
one of the first to experienceAir Tahiti Nui's new Moana
Premium Plus.
So I will be able to talk moreabout that with you next week
and also share the links to uhmy stories.
And um, yeah, and you can lookback at my Insta, Coosty Rights,
and have a look and see uh umall the incredible things that I
I saw and did while I was overthere.
(02:36):
How about you, Belle?
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
Well, I'm about to head down to lovely, lovely
Tasmania to check out the newrefuges at Pump House Point,
which is a former electricitystation set on the banks of Lake
St.
Clair in the Central Highlands.
It has been my dream to visitthis property for many, many
years.
The last time I was at Lake St.
Clair, and it was actually, itwas such a long time ago, I
(02:58):
don't think Pump House was evenbuilt then.
I just finished the OverlandTrack, which I still reckon is
Australia's premierlong-distance hike.
And the lake may have been thefirst time I'd had a shower in
quite a few days.
So I just leapt straight intothis pristine, absolutely
frigid, mountain-fed um lake.
And I have to say, the I scaredthe birds out of the trees.
(03:20):
When I hit the water, it wasjust like it was absolutely
freezing.
Um, another funny thing thathappened to me, um, I was when I
was in Central Australia, I'vegot to tell you this quickly,
Kirsty, I was talking to 2GBradio station in Sydney, and we
were talking about Tunisia.
The whole time I was doing theinterview, I had I was staying
(03:41):
on a cattle station outsideAlice Springs called Uramina
Station.
And when I borrowed the office,the station's office to do the
interview where it was quiet.
As soon as I sat down, rang 2GBrang me.
We started doing the interviewabout Tunisia.
There was a goat standingoutside the window.
And as soon as it sees people inthere, it starts screaming for
(04:03):
food.
So the whole way through thisradio interview, I have got a
goat screaming, absolutelyscreaming.
And um this and I thought, Iwonder if they can hear it.
And the bloke, um, MichaelMcLaren, I was talking to, he
said, it sounds like you're inan abattoir.
And um, speaking of which, whatdo they eat in Tunisia?
I'm like, there's a lot of goatbeing eaten.
This goat was just screaming fora moment.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Oh my god, that's so funny.
Do you know what I think aboutwhen you say when you talk about
goats?
Did you see that?
Um, have you seen that video ofthat little Kiwi girl?
And she says, I can't swearbecause we're a clean podcast,
but she says, um, um, look, it'san effing goat.
And then she keeps saying itover and over again, and it is
the funniest thing you'll eversee in your life.
And um, and her mothers keptsaying in the background, no,
(04:49):
it's just a goat.
And she keeps going, I haven'tseen this an effing goat.
And it's so it's hilarious.
She's a little Kiwi kid.
It's so funny.
And every time anyone mentionsgoats, that's all I think about.
SPEAKER_02 (05:02):
I I might have been saying that under my breath, but
I was on live radio, um, liveSydney radio, so I didn't
actually say it either.
Because we like to keepourselves nice here, don't we,
Kirsty?
SPEAKER_01 (05:13):
Well, that's so funny.
But um, yeah, I wonder if didyou hear bat, did you hear, did
you listen back?
Was the could you hear the goat?
SPEAKER_02 (05:20):
Well, I've only just got back, so I've got the link
now.
I had almost no Wi-Fi um in thewhole time in Central Australia,
so I haven't listened to it backnow.
But I had it, I had it just itwas just echoing in my head, and
I was dying of embarrassment.
And the bloody thing onlystopped when we went outside and
gave it something to eat.
I swear to God, it was nearlykebab.
(05:43):
Which is what they eat inTunisia.
SPEAKER_01 (05:46):
Oh, that is so funny.
That's so funny.
Well, you can actually scroll onback and and find um Val's um
podcast episode where she talkedabout Tunisia because and that
was one that was really welllistened to as well, because it
was fascinating.
Um, so scoot on back and andfind that if you want to,
because we've got pretty goodback catalogue now.
We're up to episode 115.
SPEAKER_02 (06:07):
Um, yeah, this I mean the interview came around
because I just had the coverstory in the Sydney Morning
Herald about Tunisia.
So I'm gonna drop a link to thatin the show notes as well.
It's it's been going off.
You gotta go.
SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
Great.
Well, this week we are talkingabout the issues that give
travelers the ick when they aretraveling.
And I have to say, I have aquite a few that get on my goat
too, Val.
So Vodafone has said that loudtalkers in quiet places was top
(06:41):
of the list.
I have to say, this really doesirk me.
Uh that you know, when you'reespecially when you're in a and
when you're in a train, it'sreally annoying as well.
Um, but in a plane, it's yeah,that's a bit frustrating.
You know, when you're just on a,especially when you're on an
overnight flight and someone'stalking really, really
ridiculously loud.
Anyway, so that's one of thethat what that was what topped
the list.
SPEAKER_02 (07:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, nearly half of Australianssay that that is their biggest
travel ick.
And also, too, you know, whenpeople don't put their earphones
in and stuff.
So you're just listening tosomebody banging on, you know,
so they so you've got to hearboth sides of the conversation,
which is possibly even worse.
Um, the next one on the list wasthe human snail.
Uh, can't believe that I'm theone that's gonna read this one
(07:23):
out, and that is the always latetravel companion.
Look, I definitely skim thetime.
Kirsty initially wrote in ascript that this is me, I you I
am always traveling late.
I want to defend myself on thisone.
I skim, I skim the time herebecause, in my defense, I am a
very busy woman.
But also, I cannot, cannot spendthree hours hanging around at an
(07:46):
airport before a flight becauseusually I'm not in the lounge,
baby.
I'm stuck out the front.
Um, and it's a waste of life.
They only tell you to go thereso early so that you can spend
all your money in the bloodycafes.
So, uh please don't start mebecause I know you are very
early and you're very good andvery organized.
Um so also moving right alongfrom the ick that is late
(08:11):
travelers, um, high on the icklist also are drunken behavior
and shameless photo bombers,which are so annoying.
This also goes about, like, youknow, when you try to get a nice
photo of your kids on holidaysand one of them's always got
their mouth wide open, theirtongue hanging out, or they turn
their face away, or they pullthose hideous faces.
(08:31):
So, does that class as ashameless photo bomber or travel
egg?
Dunno.
SPEAKER_01 (08:37):
I don't know.
Either way, so annoying.
Yeah.
Yes, either way, so annoying.
So the phone addict um whospends more time scrolling on
their phone and snapping photosfor Instagram was high in the
ratings, along with a fussyfoodie.
So that's someone who refuses totry the local cuisine and owns
two Aussie style cafes.
(08:57):
Um, I mean, what's the point inthat?
And anyway, how can you evenfind Aussie style cafes
anywhere?
You can't.
Um, and a third of Aussies getthe travel act with companions
who become the budget police onholidays and question every
dollar spent.
And I have to say, my husbanddoesn't do that on the holiday,
but he does do that before theholiday and even creates
(09:18):
spreadsheets.
And do you know how heannoyingly puts things on?
Like if you go and buy a new,like I bought a July suitcase
and he went and put the luggageon his spreadsheet and then
claimed it as part of the costof our holiday.
And I'm like, you cannot do thatbecause I can use that luggage,
you know, forever.
So um, yes, that's veryannoying.
(09:39):
So he is definitely, in fact,you know, I've got friends who
call him the finance police.
That's what they call them.
SPEAKER_02 (09:44):
Oh, fine.
Our household is spend, don'tlook.
Um, so yeah, we run on thatmotto.
There's I really don't have thatproblem in mind.
My husband's like, yeah, he'suh, yeah, he just wants to go
and live it up and and uh thinkabout it later on.
Um other things that really irkus are littering.
Gotta say, this wrecks my head,absolutely wrecks my head,
(10:06):
littering.
Putting your feet up on publictransport doesn't wreck me as
much as littering, but crowdingthe baggage carousel.
Oh my goodness.
I you know what I just did on mylast trip.
I just pulled my bag out and andthat and I said to somebody,
excuse me, excuse me.
They wouldn't move.
What are you gonna do?
You just run over their toes,really.
Unless, unless they're like, youknow, super, you know, unless
(10:29):
they're like a tiny child or aor an old person, you know, with
sticks and stuff like that.
It's like, how many times do Ihave to ask you to get out of
the road before I haul mysuitcase over you?
And that was a heavy suitcase.
It's like I've do you know what?
I've asked you enough.
I have just been sitting on aflatulent filled tin can for the
(10:49):
past 14 hours.
My patience is at an all-timelow, people.
I've asked you nicely and askingyou again.
And you were probably the onecreating a little flatulence as
well.
So you doubly knead your toes.
SPEAKER_01 (11:02):
I f well last time we flew, we had someone, I was
standing there, Dave and I werestanding there together.
Actually, this was just when wewent up to Noosa, and we were
just standing there together,and this guy and I came along
and literally stood.
So we were sort of on the yellowline, you know, so as close as
you're allowed to get in ourlittle spot.
Um, and this person came andstood right bang in front of me,
(11:25):
like like literally, so therewas no way I had nowhere to go.
He was like right in front ofme, and then he just and and
then he was like so close that Icould smell him.
And I was like, what is sowrong?
Why do you guys stand, need tostand in front of someone that
close?
Like just go find another spotor wait.
I just find the whole thing justridiculously rude.
(11:45):
Anyway, another funny one nearlyone in four Aussies get the
travel ick if a stranger orpeople generally clap when the
plane lands.
Oh my god, how many times hasthis happened?
I cannot tell you how many timesI've been it's happened to me so
many times.
I've been in a plane, the planecomes in for a landing and
everyone starts clapping.
Oh no, why don't we all startbooing when it's a really bad
(12:07):
landing?
SPEAKER_02 (12:07):
Haven't been on a clapping flight for quite a long
time.
I I used to fly a lot, the umflying in and out of Italy.
I I do think that uh flights inand out of Italy get a lot of
clapping.
Um, and the last time I had aflight where people clapped was
it was a really awful, trickylanding, and we were being
buffeted and the the the planeand everybody was deathly quiet.
(12:28):
You know, one of those oneswhere everybody just like gets
in behind the the pilot, youknow, and they're really quiet
because you're just beingknocked around in the air.
And so when we landed, everybodyapplauded because the pilot was
just working with some reallyawful crosswinds.
So I don't know.
I'm not sure that one is my wasa massive, a massive ick.
But um, you know, when it comesto arguments with our trouble
(12:50):
partner, um mostly over notbeing able to contact each other
after you separate.
You know, if you're like goingabout different things in a day,
not being able to contact eachother, that is a pain in the
backside.
Getting lost, having no accessto maps.
I I've got to say, I do usepaper maps for that reason.
Um, not having mobile data orreceiving an unexpectedly high
(13:13):
phone bill after the trip, thatis an absolute killer.
That is that is brutal.
What about you?
What's your worst travel eat,Kirsty?
SPEAKER_01 (13:24):
To me, it honestly just comes down to respect.
So, you know, that person whojust throws back their seat with
little consideration,particularly on a domestic
flight.
And so you've got your laptop upand they just throw it back, and
you're like, your laptop justabout gets snapped in half.
Um, or you know, they throw itback before the meal.
Um, and also airplane toilets.
I mean, we're all in this thingfor hours.
(13:48):
Can you please just aim?
Like, just if you don't knowlike, and you can wash your
hands.
So just touch it, aim correctly,wash your hands so that we can
all don't have sticky feet um onthe flight.
Because that is just the mostrevolting thing in the world.
Um, how about you, Belle?
(14:08):
What's yours?
SPEAKER_02 (14:09):
Well, I've got to say having somebody else's urine
on my shoes does rate as a veryhigh travel egg.
Oh, it is disgusting.
Honestly, I'm I'm gonna put inwith the toilets there somebody
who's been in the toilet for aconsiderable period of time.
And sometimes that just happens,right?
But then when they come out,they just leave the door open.
(14:30):
And if you're unlucky to besitting in those couple of rows
near the toilet, and you'relike, bro, you have just about
brutalized that very smallspace, and you've left and you
just sort run out like youhaven't got a care in the world,
and you leave the door openbehind you, and it's meal
service, and it's just like, getout of my life, you animal.
(14:52):
You animal, you're disgusting.
Yeah, it's all about thetoilets.
SPEAKER_01 (15:10):
This week I'm chatting to founder and managing
director of Take Off Go, IvonaShineska, who is an expert in
African safaris and has visitedAfrica 40 times.
Oh, she's just got the dreamlife right.
How did you guys meet?
We actually met at an industryevent that I attended for
Carry-on, and um, we were at adinner, and we really hit it
(15:32):
off, and we've been chattingwith each other ever since.
And she is just has such a deeppassion for Africa and wildlife.
And when I was chatting to herand she was telling me all her
insights into Africa, I thought,oh my God, everyone else needs
to hear this.
So um, that's what we did.
We decided to have a littlechat.
So take a listen.
Welcome to the show, Ivana.
(15:52):
Hi, how are you?
It's so great to have you on TheWorld of Waits.
Um, let's start by telling us alittle bit about how you came to
get into the travel industry.
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Um, of course.
Yes, thank you.
I'm excited to be here.
I came, I think travel is alittle bit always in who I am
and who how I grew up.
We were we immigrated to Canadaand when we could spent a lot of
time traveling back to Europe,to Poland, where I was born.
And a lot of that involved costsavings and finding the cheapest
(16:23):
point of entry so we would flyinto Amsterdam, Paris, and then
make our way over to Poland.
So travel was always kind of whoI was growing up, and I was in a
different industry.
I was in the music industry, andthen that that um was put on
pause because the company Iworked for got bought up by a
big record label.
And I went back to bartending,which is great money in North
(16:45):
America and spent a lot of mytime working, and then from um
anything that I effectively madefrom tips I would spend to go
travel.
I applied once upon a time for atravel job and they told me I
didn't have enough salesexperience.
And then so I just keptbartending and then traveling
once every three, four weeksaround Caribbean, Central
America, South America, becauseI was living in Toronto and that
(17:07):
was very close.
Um, then from there, I think itwas January or February, it was
minus 30 degrees outside, and Iwas serving a table of suits.
Um, I was quite tanned, beachy,you know, summer clearly came
back from the tropics and theyasked me about my 10.
(17:28):
And I basically said to themthat, oh, you know, I just came
back from I think it was Cuba orJamaica or somewhere and spoke a
little bit about that.
And it, and they asked, youknow, made a comment about how
I'm excited and passionate abouttravel and yada, yada, yada.
Um, long story short, they endedup being a group of executives
from Flight Center and was kindof prompted then to apply again
(17:53):
and and more or less come in foran interview.
Um, and I couldn't because I wasleaving to China, which then I
think cemented the fact that Itravel quite a bit.
Um, but I ended up interviewingas soon as I got back and
starting three days later.
And then the rest is history.
I've worked kind of in Canadaand in briefly for some
(18:13):
contracts in the UK, and then inthe last 12 years in Australia.
SPEAKER_01 (18:19):
Amazing.
Gosh, yes.
And like, you know, we weresaying earlier, it's all about
the love of travel, right?
That's why we're in it.
So um, was it what is it aboutthe uh saferis that has made you
a specialist in that area?
And um, and what makes you keepwanting to go back on safari?
SPEAKER_00 (18:35):
Well, um, well, I love the world, and then safaris
was kind of always on the list,but not necessarily just
saferis.
In 2010, there was meant to be aGlobal Achievers Award in South
Africa, which I had qualifiedfor, but a few months out they
changed it because of conflictwith the World Cup.
And I decided I was going tocontinue to travel anyways, um,
(18:58):
and came and spent what wasmeant to be three months in
Africa, ended up being aboutnine, fell in love with it, um,
traveling through all of EastAfrica, Southern Africa, and it
really just brought me at thetime, I suppose, and and every
single time thereafter, itbrought me peace.
There's there's something aboutbeing here in Africa and all of
(19:19):
it, which is really hard togeneralize a continent because
you wouldn't do it anywhereelse.
Um, but there's a level ofhumanity here.
Um, and that that's just fromkind of the people that I
absolutely love, which brings meback.
But also in the safari space,there's something about driving
out that it's you become thetruest form of yourself.
(19:41):
So I always say to people, um, Ikeep coming back for the people,
the place, which is just thenatural mother nature and her
beauty, um, the peace that itbrings, because it just settles
all of your thoughts.
You you very much are left witha point of reflection when
you're, you know, staring outfrom a vehicle into a pride of
(20:02):
lions or or elephants or animpala in a tree.
Um, and then the perspective.
And I think every single time Icome here, that that reflection
just keeps me coming back overand over and over again because
you really do when you'resurrounded by wildlife, there's
nothing else that you can thinkof other than how small and
(20:24):
insignificant some of ourproblems can be.
And so it really kind of justrecenters you and helps you, I
suppose, find yourself again andfind that peace.
Not to say that I need it, butit it really kind of just
reaffirms um who I am each andevery single time I'm here.
(20:45):
Um, plus, it's it's justincredible.
Like being out in the bush, thesmell in the morning, the dust
settling over the sunrise.
Um it's incredible.
Just driving out, the noises youhear at night.
I slept in Johannesburg lastnight and it was the first
silent sleep I've had in twoweeks because I've been out in
the bush.
So in the middle of the night inthe bush, you might hear hippos
(21:06):
grazing outside of your tent.
You might hear um alarm callsoff in the distance, or
elephants, and there's justsomething about it that's that's
it gets under your skin.
And most people who have been toAfrica will tell you the same
thing.
There's just something aboutAfrica that the moment you set
foot here, you feel like youbelong.
And as soon as you leave, thatyou're just left with this
(21:28):
overwhelming desire to return.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Amazing.
And what do you think are sortof the things that most people
um, you know, want to see?
I mean, obviously the big five,but do most people that come to
you, you know, because you'rebased in Melbourne, obviously,
and uh well, and all andobviously that you you are are
assisting um travel luxurytravelers and travelers from all
over Australia, but are theymostly coming to you saying, I
(21:53):
want to go to Africa because Iwant to see the big five?
Or are there other reasons?
Uh I mean, that would be theprimary reason, right?
SPEAKER_00 (22:01):
It's it's a mixture.
Some, some, yes, um, they theycome to us because, or to me
specifically, because they wantto see the big five.
Um, I kind of never really stoptalking about Africa, and
everyone who knows me knows thatI'm here as often as I possibly
can be.
And so usually what happens isif anybody remotely mentions
(22:21):
Africa in conversation, somebodywill be like, you have to speak
to Ivana.
Some people come to me and andthey, you know, they know
exactly what they want to see.
They have seen documentariesabout Nagorongoro Crater and
want to do East Africa, see themigration, the big five safaris.
Some people come with a very,very, I suppose, clean slate and
(22:43):
just say Africa's on theirbucket list, they don't really
know where or how um or or whichpart to see.
And I think that's where themagic happens.
Um, we spend a lot of timegetting to know the guests that
we send to Africa.
Um, you know, if somebody emailsme and they just want this,
this, and this, and this, I'mvery, very reluctant to ever
just confirm that booking.
(23:04):
I believe every experience inAfrica can be personalized.
So spend a lot of time gettingto know the individual, their
likes, their dislikes.
Ideally, it's a face-to-facecoffee or lunch ketchup, even
better if it's a glass of wine.
At the very least, a long phonecall and Zoom because it can be
catered so specifically to eachindividual, even down to the
(23:26):
camps that we used to sendpeople.
Um it really just depends.
I think there's a lot of Africato cover.
Um, East Africa is verydifferent to Southern Africa.
And in the last few years, we'vehad these amazing nature
documentaries on Netflix, youknow, BBC, The Planet Earth,
(23:48):
where it highlights variousparts of it.
So I think some guests don'tnecessarily know how much of it
can be combined or how much ofit can be focused on one
destination.
I've just had 10 10 nights inZambia.
Um, you can do Zambia alone for10, 15 nights, or you can
(24:08):
combine Zambia on a 15-nightSouthern Africa itinerary.
So a lot of it is getting toknow the guests what they want,
but then also personalizingevery single trip.
Because no two trips are thesame to Africa, no two days are
the same in Africa, no twodrives are the same.
And the more you can cater thatexperience to what that person
wants, will you see the bigfive, with the exception of a
(24:31):
few places where rhino might bea scarcity?
That's a polite word, whererhino may no longer exist
because of poaching.
Um, the other four arerelatively, I mean, they're in
existence.
So whether or not you see them,leopards are elusive.
You know, those ones tend to bethe hardest, but but there are
(24:52):
reserves where the concentrationof game are are higher, you're
more likely to see them.
You would never guaranteeanything.
Um, but you can kind of resteasy, knowing that that if
somebody specifically theirfavorite animal is a leopard, I
would probably send them to, youknow, South Luangua in in Zambia
has the highest concentration ofleopard in the world or sabby
(25:15):
sand.
So there's places that anAfrican specialist will be able
to cater to the specific guest,depending if they're focused on
specifically seeing an animal,if they want human aspect of it.
Some people want to interactwith villages, see the Maasai,
see the Bushmen of the Kalahari,there's the Himba tribes of
Namibia.
There's, I mean, it's endlessexperiences you can offer in
(25:39):
Africa.
So it's really getting to knowthe guests and what what they
are off after to ensure thatwhat we are putting together
tailors to them and is theironce-in-a-lifetime trip.
And I use air quotes, which youwon't be able to see on a
podcast, um, because it'sthere's no such thing as a
(26:00):
once-in-a-lifetime trip.
Everybody comes back and and andsays they want to go back,
they'll get back there.
I had a couple who returned, Ithink I mentioned this to you
last time.
Their once-in-a-lifetime tripwas in 2013, and they've come
back from their ninth trip.
So people do return over andover and over again because all
of the reasons I've mentioned.
Um, so yes, you can have yourfirst trip to see the safaris
(26:23):
and the animals and perhaps thebig five, or they want to see
the winelands or you know, TableMelton, or Kilomanjoro.
Um, but there's something aboutthe the region as a whole that
brings people back.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
Amazing.
My gosh, yes.
You you you're selling it verywell.
So um and I guess this then uhsort of leads uh into that whole
issue, right?
Of so many people and a lot ofpeople wanting to go.
And there have been a lot ofunfortunately images out there
of like wildlife surrounded bytrucks.
(26:59):
So, like, you know, 10, 10 or 15trucks and like dozens and
dozens of people surrounding,you know, just a few, just a few
animals.
SPEAKER_00 (27:15):
That neighbor or private concessions within where
it does limit the vehicle, butin Serengeti, Masaymara's the
majority of the park is public.
So everybody traverses the samemain road, which often means and
it exists in southern Africa aswell.
But to speak of the footage, Ithink it was Nick Lear, who's a
guide, who posted the first one,which is the one that went
(27:37):
viral.
If somebody sees something, theystop, which then means another
vehicle stops and then anothervehicle stops.
So yes, you can have theseincredibly immersive, intimate
experiences where it's justyourself, your one vehicle, or
maybe one other vehicle fromyour camp next to a pride of
lions.
A lot of the footage we've beenseeing is dozens and dozens of
(28:01):
vehicles.
The which sometimes is is justthe way it is, and that's fine.
I think the biggest thing iswe're working with properties
and with gods who still respectthe natural and understand and
animals' behavior, can read ifthe animal is becoming stressed.
They won't surround it from youknow all angles.
The animal should always have anexit point, should they not wish
(28:24):
to be closer to the vehicles.
The if you're in a game vehicle,the wild animal, whether it be a
leopard, a cheetah, a lion, um,a buffalo, an elephant, it does
see you as one main object.
So if there's a lot of bigobjects, you're very safe in
your vehicle.
If there's a lot of these bigobjects that they see that are
obstructing their roads, usuallywhat they'll do is they'll just
(28:46):
find a way to traverse somewhereelse or walk around it.
Um, you know, I've often haveleopards walking by the vehicle,
and we're not disturbing thembecause the guides and the
properties in the camps that wework with know how to read their
behavior.
So rather than stopping the cardirectly in front of them,
they'll see the leopard 200meters away, can figure out the
path it's going to take, andwe'll just stop the vehicle and
(29:07):
you get to witness thisbeautiful, majestic, regal
creature walking at you from 200meters away past you and
onwards.
And that's where you realize we,you know, we're we're guests in
their kingdom.
Where it gets tricky is a lot ofplaces have guides where, you
know, they just their guestsmight just offer them money,
(29:30):
tips, etc.
To nope, they want the shot,they want the shot, go closer,
go closer, and that becomes anan area of contention.
And unfortunately, you know,this part of the world is
beautiful and the people areamazing, is also known for a
little bit of corruption.
So the, you know, that footagethat we saw of people, it wasn't
(29:51):
just the vehicles.
The shocking part about it wasthat there was people outside of
the vehicles standing on thebanks of the river.
Well, the migration of thewildebeest.
Is trying to cross effectivelyin search of greener pastures.
They're trying to get out of thewater and they can't even make
it up to the embankment becauseit's not just vehicles that are
blocking their migration routes,which are millennial old.
(30:15):
It's people out of the vehicles,which is stupid.
Like it's absolutely stupid.
It's not just endangering theanimal, which might then force
it to go back into thesecrocodile-infested waters.
It's endangering themselves.
If there's that much welderbees, there is predators around.
If you're standing outside ofthe vehicles, like it's I it was
shocking footage in ourindustry.
(30:35):
Like I'm so beyond words.
Because how on earth you wouldA, let your guests out of a
vehicle, B, have that manyvehicles on their route, but C
also just endanger your ownlives as a guest to get to get a
photo.
It's it's an absolute blessingand relief that nothing happened
(30:56):
to a single human in all of it.
The impact on the wildlife isatrocious, but it's just silly.
And then to have seen it threeweeks or four weeks later, on
the same thing happening on theKenyan side.
It's yeah, I'm ugh.
Angry words.
Um, but the issue is it's everyso a lot of people on their
bucket list have the greatmigration because they see these
(31:18):
amazing, amazing um, you know,Attenborough, BBC, wildlife
documentaries where it'shundreds of thousands of wilder
beasts crossing the river all atonce.
And so many guests tend tocongregate to these areas in
July and August, where becausethe river serpents, it's the
highest likeliness that you willsee the river crossings.
(31:40):
What people don't understand issometimes you will sit on that
same spot by the river for aweek and not a single animal
will cross.
Wildebees have been doing thiscircular clockwise migrations
for centuries, and which is whythey always have similar
crossing paths.
And while they have evolved toknow which way to go and search
in greener pastures and have thesame paths and routes that they
(32:02):
take, they're also not thesmartest animal.
So they'll go up to the waterwater, sniff it, come back out.
So waiting for a migration tocross could take thick hours.
You know, sometimes they'll goin, then they'll come back.
Sometimes they'll go in, bechased by a crocodile, go back
out, and then eventually stilltry to cross.
It's it is the greatest show onearth.
(32:23):
It's extraordinary if you get tosee it, but it attracts so many
people who then crowd and waitand see it and s and wait for
this glimpse of something thatmay or may not happen, which
attracts so many vehicles.
So along the banks of the river,every single year in July and
August, you just havepermanently placed vehicles.
Many are professionalphotographers, many are guests.
(32:43):
Majority of these guests,photographers, guides, do the
right thing.
They stay further back.
They're in these areas, though.
You can have day trippers,self-drivers from some of the
local cities, or you can have uhfreelance guides who, you know,
will take a group of guests andcome in.
So while the professionalguides, everyone's a
(33:05):
professional guide, but whilethe main lodges who respect the
animals may be back from theembankment, giving these animals
space, what happens is more andmore vehicles congregate and
then it just becomesoverwhelming, full of vehicles,
the footage that you see withwith hundreds of vehicles,
people get out for I the stillthe people getting out is beyond
(33:26):
me, but people want a bettershot.
They get out.
Many guests spend a lot of moneyto come to these regions for
this shot.
I would never risk my life for aphoto, but we are we're living
in the day and age of socialmedia where, you know, whatever
photo makes you more viral.
It's it's strange.
Combat that, you know, it's inKenya, for instance, the Masay
(33:48):
Mara has put up their park fees.
It's 200 US per day.
Um, yet everybody wants to come.
And so you're still getting thisamount of vehicles.
The pro, I think working with anAfrican specialist, what you can
tell people is that you canstill go see animals sealed.
While you may not necessarilyever guarantee a river crossing,
you can still go to theseregions.
You can see the savannas, theopen plains, you can see, see
(34:12):
the beauty of that region, butstay in private conservations,
in in the concessions where theylimit the amount of vehicles,
where the land is leased fromthe Maasai, for instance, and
they build their lodges to workwith the Maasai so that they
understand the value of tourismand giving back to the
community.
And there it limits thevehicles.
So you guides respect eachother.
(34:34):
You know, if it's leopard cubsor line cubs, sometimes you may
only have one vehicle there toensure that that cub is slowly
being introduced to vehiclesrather than 20 vehicles all at
once.
And then most of those privatereserves will then limit any
vehicle siding to three vehiclesto kind of treat Mother Nature
(34:56):
as as we are there, as a guestrather than congregate.
But with mass tourism in theseareas, there will, it's shocking
this year, um, but there willalways be a congregation and a
large volume of vehicles.
It exists in Southern Africa aswell.
Everybody thinks of the Kruger,Kruger National Park is very
similar.
You're stuck to the main road.
(35:18):
Anyone can come in and there'slodges within Kruger, there's
campsites, self-camping,self-drive.
So you get a lot of vehicles.
There's the greater Krugerregion has.
(35:50):
We had a great guide the otherday with time and tide in South
Luango.
There was a leopard up in atree, which is for most people
an iconic, you know, tick, takea photo of a leopard in a tree,
um, I guess, checklist, bucketlist item.
And South Luango is a nationalpark, so they're they don't
limit the vehicles.
Our guide was fantastic.
George decided to stay backbecause he didn't feel right
(36:12):
about it.
There was already six vehiclesthere.
The leopard needs to be able tosee what it's hunting, needs to
be able to jump down easily andstep away.
And it was one of every singleone in our vehicle was so
relieved because we don't wantto overwhelm that that cat.
And we went 300 meters later,um, further, and that's where we
waited.
And Lucy the leopard walked byour vehicle.
(36:34):
So a lot of it is working withcamps, with lodges, with guides
who respect animals, respecttheir natural habitat, and won't
do anything for their guests'photo, um, which sometimes is
disappointing to the guests.
But I think the onus is on us toalso give people very realistic
expectations as to what you mayor may not see, but also
(36:56):
emphasize the value of theirlives, of the lives of these
animals.
If animals become too habituatedand they start coming into camp
or jumping into vehicles,eventually they will have to be
put down.
And nobody wants that.
So education is a very key partof the consulting process for
anyone who sells Africa.
And that's part another reasonwhy it's, you know, it's no two
(37:18):
itineraries are the same.
Some guests might feel very,very, you know, very
apprehensive about being closeto an animal on, on, on a feed,
on a keel.
Um, other guests want to see itall.
So it's just kind of settingthose realistic expectations.
And and the guides are I'venever had a bad guide because I
(37:38):
work with the right properties,but the guides are absolutely
incredible at um reading ourbehavior as guests, not just at
the animals, but our behavior asguests to ensure that we are
comfortable.
The last thing you want to do ishave a guest scream or act out.
Um, if if a line does get tooclose, so it's guides are
(38:01):
really, really good at gauging,and it's safety first for
everyone (38:04):
animal safety, human safety, guest safety, their own
safety.
Um, you know, we can see a lonebull elephant, and while it
looks amazing and people want tosee it closer, the guides will
know that no, he's in must.
We need to get away as quicklyas possible.
So working with the right camps,the right guides is key.
I would be very, very reluctant.
(38:26):
I've been 40 times and I wouldstill never self-drive.
So I think, yes, there's a lotof over tourism, and people do
think it's accessible and thebeauty of you know, AI, you can
plan these things online, but itwhere are you compromising your
safety if you're trying to do ityourself or cut corners or be
closer to the animals?
SPEAKER_01 (38:45):
Yeah, wow, that's so insightful and interesting.
And and really, like you said,it comes down to making sure
that you you you understand andyou and you're doing your
research and you and you'regoing through experts, so you're
actually um working with themost responsible um operators in
regards to ensuring becauseotherwise we, you know, like you
(39:06):
said, I mean, even if theyincrease the costs, it's not
having an impact on theovertourism.
So the reality is at the end ofthe day, uh, you know, we we
don't want to all risk actuallylosing the opportunity
altogether.
What um what what are some ofyour would your tips be then for
what are just a couple of toptips for people who who have
never been before, who who wouldwho would say come to you and
(39:28):
say, I really want to experienceum the local people, um, you
know, some wildlife and uh andand a really nice sort of
safari, comfortable sort ofmaybe slightly luxe um safari
experience.
What would your what would yourtops be for top top tips be for
someone who was consideringthat?
SPEAKER_00 (39:49):
I think from a guest's perspective, um, you
know, in in in I suppose thecomfortable luxury space, the
it's endless.
The service levels in Africa areunparalleled anywhere else.
The lodges are unbelievable.
Some of them have five rooms,some have maximum 12.
So there's the exclusivity andcomfort levels do exist.
From a guest perspective, it'smaking sure you're speaking to
(40:09):
somebody, an agent, aspecialist, and being as honest
and asking all the questions youwant.
Um, you know, there's no suchthing as a silly question.
We we've been here, most of ushave been here endless times,
which is why it's become such apassion.
So asking so that you areunderstanding on what you're
experiencing or expecting whenyou arrive is great.
(40:30):
And asking the guides thequestion.
Guides are full of information.
I learn something new everysingle day when I'm here.
So I think, you know, if youwant to see the gorillas, be
honest.
Say you might have mobilityissues.
And then we can say, okay, well,you know, gorilla trekking is
amazing.
In Rwanda, shorter hikes, buthigher altitude.
In Uganda, longer heights, loweraltitude.
And so, really, kind of the moreopen a guest or an agent is
(40:54):
about the traveler, the morethat the itinerary can really be
curated to not just their wantsand what they want to see, but
their needs and their comfortlevel.
And then from a safari point ofview, I mean it's mix it up.
Like Zambia is is eaten.
It's it's amazing.
Don't necessarily think thatbecause you see Kenya, Tanzania
on nature docks, that that's themost amount of animals.
(41:17):
Um, Lower Zambezi National Park,where I was just was
unbelievable.
I stopped counting elephantsbecause every single photo we
took was surrounded byelephants, babies, all the
animals.
So I think it's be open to newdestinations, especially if if
there's um, you know, time ofyear constraints or or you want
(41:39):
more value out of your money,but also take the guidance.
If if the more forthcomingpeople are with information, the
better the guidance can be fromus and you know, East Africa,
can your comfort levels may notbe the same for one guest as
they might be for another?
And we can really kind of tailorif Madagascar, if Namibia, if
Botswana, if Kenya, Zambia arethe right fit for that guest.
SPEAKER_01 (42:04):
Yeah, great advice.
Um, and um, we're running out oftime, but I'm gonna quickly ask
you what's your favorite safaridestination and why?
SPEAKER_00 (42:13):
I don't know that I have one, and everybody asks me
this.
I mean, this these these lastnine nights that I had in Zambia
completely blew my mind, and Iwant to return.
Already I'm like, when can Icome back?
Um, Botswana is very special aswell because because it's it's
Botswana and that's what's allon all the nature docs, but
Zambia has the water activitiesas well.
(42:33):
There's something about thelower, um, the greater Kruga
area.
I love Sabi Sand.
Love Sabi Sand.
Um, I've stayed.
Dulini is actually the only campI've ever returned to in all of
these years of traveling to,because it's I just loved it so
much.
But then you have fantasticproperties in the southern part
of Sabi Sand where the serviceis just you leave feeling like
(42:56):
family.
So that's where I send all of myguests.
Um, you know, Lion Sands is thatwhole concession is private.
It's amazing.
I don't know, but then Tanzaniaspecial, I really don't know.
I don't have a favoritedestination.
So long as I'm out in the bush,I am happy out in the bush, you
know, surrounded by wildlife,the the the sun-torched earth,
(43:16):
the smell in the air, thethere's turtle, cake turtle
doves make this noise that Idon't know how to mimic, but you
hear it when you're drivingthrough.
And that for me is peace, andit's my happy place.
So I don't, I don't really knowthat I have a favorite.
So long as I'm in the bush, it'smy favorite.
SPEAKER_01 (43:31):
Amazing.
Well, look, I have to ask youthe last question we ask all of
our guests, which is what's themost bizarre thing that's ever
happened to you on your travels?
SPEAKER_00 (43:39):
Years ago, now maybe in 2013, I was in Madagascar,
um, which is amazing.
It's it's it's it's a wholeother continent, really.
I mean, it's part of Africa, butit could be its whole other
continent just because of thespecies that you find there.
They have 103 species of lemurs,which is amazing.
But I was there photographing alemur um outside of on the sea
bay and and just had my SLR outtaking photographing a lemur in
(44:02):
a tree, and another lemur,different species, jumped up on
my shoulders and actually triedto try to look through the
viewfinder.
And I have this photo of metrying to take a photo, lemur
trying to stick a skin in crapon my shoulder for like a good
three, four minutes, trying to,I guess, see what I was seeing.
(44:22):
Um, and then got a bit bored andjumped off by amazing.
Um, and I'd I'd I'm I'm not forhuman wildlife kind of
connection anywhere.
But if an animal lemurs arethey're not predators, but if
they jump on you, um I'm notgoing to, you know, you kind of
just go with it.
And and I suppose that that'swhere the embracing the bizarre,
definitely one of the mostbizarre things that's happened
(44:45):
to me.
Um but yeah, a special moment inhindsight.
SPEAKER_01 (44:49):
Yes, I bet.
Oh my gosh, it's been so amazingtalking to you.
And we're gonna put a link inthe show notes um about where
people can reach out to you.
But thank you so much for takingthe time to talk to us.
SPEAKER_02 (45:00):
Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
I absolutely loved Ivona's tipsabout how to make sure you're
doing the right thing by thewildlife and ensuring that our
future generations can have thesame experiences that we're
having.
So if you'd like to learn moreabout Africa or plan a trip, go
to her website, takeoffgo.com,and we'll put a link in the show
(45:21):
notes.
SPEAKER_01 (45:32):
Our tip this week is as Aussie as they come.
We are revealing for roadtrippers, the road trippers
among us, where to get the bestpie.
SPEAKER_02 (45:40):
Oh, the most important thing, right, when
you're on a road trip.
So the great Aussie piecompetition judges the best pies
and sausage rolls aroundAustralia.
I've got to say, I do love agood pie.
If you ever ask the question whoate all the pies, hands up.
Um, and I will happily detoo itto find the dream pie.
So the competition's beenrunning for about 36 years.
(46:01):
They've got some chops when itcomes to eating all the pies.
The judges spent four daysmunching on pies of all
flavours, and the winner is thebest pie is Paradise Bakehouse
in Bunderburg in Queensland.
SPEAKER_01 (46:14):
And if you're not in regional Queensland anytime
soon, the runner up is the PieFather in the South Sydney
suburb of Roseberry.
Bonus points for the Pie Fatherbecause they're so close to the
airport that um, yeah, justsaying it could be the transit
snap that you didn't know youneeded.
SPEAKER_02 (46:31):
And the winner for the best plain sausage roll is
uh from uh banana boogie in BelAir in the Adelaide Hills.
So that is the basic best plainsausage roll.
If you're looking for somethinga bit more fancy, you will be
driving to Western Australia asthe best gourmet pie was the
beef bouguignon made by theMount Barker Country Bakery in
(46:52):
Mount Barker, which is nearAlbany.
And this bakery also had thebest vegan/slash vegetarian pie,
which is a delicious-soundingroasted cauliflower with black
truffle, black truffle provocheese sauce.
In the middle of nowhere, what awinner.
SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
And if you're a chicken pie lover and you live
in the Blue Mountains, maketracks to Mountain High Pies and
went with Falls for their goldmedal winner, Gourmet Bite of
Chicken Pie, yum yum.
Okay, I'm just gonna add onemore, which isn't on this list,
but it is rated on theAustralian Good Food Guide,
which is a called Island PiesBakery in New Haven, which is on
Phillip Island, and they havethe most incredible pies.
(47:30):
And do you know what they'refamed for?
They are famed for their scalloppies.
SPEAKER_02 (47:35):
Well, I heard they were remarkable too.
So last time I was down inPhillip Island, um, which was
about nine months ago, I think Iwas doing some stuff for Good
Weekend, heard about the pies,did the detour, ate the pies.
They were very good.
Because traditionally, scalloppies are a the preserve of
Tasmania.
Like Tasmania's famous for itsscallop pies.
(47:55):
I think they're a bit hit andmiss sometimes, too much of the
old Keene's curry powder.
So I was I was a bit skeptical,but it fueled me back for the
drive home to um West Melbourne.
SPEAKER_01 (48:06):
So eager.
So there you go.
You verified my uh pierecommendation.
SPEAKER_02 (48:13):
So winner winner chicken dinner to plan your pie
eating adventures.
Jump on greatAussiePiecomp.com.au for the
full list, and we will put theaddress in the show notes so you
can plan your next pie eatingroad trip.
Next week it's Kirsty in the hotseat as she takes us to one of
the world's great archaeologicalsites, Ancore What in CMREAP,
(48:34):
and tells you why this Cambodianlandmark is one of the best
places to travel with yourteens.
SPEAKER_01 (48:41):
And we'd love it if you follow us on socials.
You'll find us at the WorldAwaits Podcast on Instagram,
Facebook, and LinkedIn.
And feel free to drop us a lineat hello at the worldawaits.au
or if you're enjoying thisepisode, we would be so grateful
if you could give us a rating orreview.
SPEAKER_02 (48:56):
That's a wrap for the World Awaits this week.
Click to subscribe anywhere youlisten to your favorite pods.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
Welcome to The World Awaits.
Travel Tales to Inspire YourWonderlust.
Welcome back to The WorldAwaits.
How are you all?
How's your week been, Kirsty?
SPEAKER_01 (00:14):
I have had such a good week.
Um, I'm so excited because mystory in Australian Geographic
about cycling around Sardinia,which for our longtime listeners
will be sick of hearing about,one of the finalists in the
Australian Travel Rider Awards,and you're a finalist too.
SPEAKER_02 (00:32):
Snap, I am too.
I've been shortlisted in theBest Culinary Story Award for a
feature I wrote about absolutelystuffing my chops in Oman.
Yum, yum, bring it on.
And if you'd like to read aboutwhat you should be eating in
Oman, I'll put a link to thatstory in the show notes.
But, friends, you are hangingwith the stars.
You already knew that.
But um also I have just beenshortlisted for the top award,
(00:56):
which is the travel writer ofthe year, whose acronym is
actually Twati, um, which doesnot detract from the award at
all.
I did win it the year beforelast, and it was such a joy.
After so many years of writingin a void, I did feel loved.
Um, so to enter the award, youhad to submit three stories.
So I put in one about uh Alulain Saudi Arabia being the
(01:18):
hottest place on the planet, ina travel fashion sense, not
because like it's a desert.
And my second story was anotherstory about Oman, published in
Luxury Escape's Dream magazine.
And the third was a cover storyfor the Sydney Morning Herald,
and it was about the mostfantastic self-guided tour by
train, which I took throughsouthern Andalusia in Spain with
(01:40):
a fantastic company called InTravel.
So I'm gonna put links to thoseplaces and stories in the show
notes as well, which you can seeon our website, which is
thewordawaits.au.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
And as this goes to air, I am also going to be
winging my way back from Tahiti.
So um I was, we're timetraveling a bit, sorry, people.
Um, but I was um the onlyAustralian or New Zealand
journalist attending Tahiti'sfirst international yoga
festival.
So um I'm also, I know this isI'm so fortunate, but I'm also
(02:15):
one of the first to experienceAir Tahiti Nui's new Moana
Premium Plus.
So I will be able to talk moreabout that with you next week
and also share the links to uhmy stories.
And um, yeah, and you can lookback at my Insta, Coosty Rights,
and have a look and see uh umall the incredible things that I
I saw and did while I was overthere.
(02:36):
How about you, Belle?
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
Well, I'm about to head down to lovely, lovely
Tasmania to check out the newrefuges at Pump House Point,
which is a former electricitystation set on the banks of Lake
St.
Clair in the Central Highlands.
It has been my dream to visitthis property for many, many
years.
The last time I was at Lake St.
Clair, and it was actually, itwas such a long time ago, I
(02:58):
don't think Pump House was evenbuilt then.
I just finished the OverlandTrack, which I still reckon is
Australia's premierlong-distance hike.
And the lake may have been thefirst time I'd had a shower in
quite a few days.
So I just leapt straight intothis pristine, absolutely
frigid, mountain-fed um lake.
And I have to say, the I scaredthe birds out of the trees.
(03:20):
When I hit the water, it wasjust like it was absolutely
freezing.
Um, another funny thing thathappened to me, um, I was when I
was in Central Australia, I'vegot to tell you this quickly,
Kirsty, I was talking to 2GBradio station in Sydney, and we
were talking about Tunisia.
The whole time I was doing theinterview, I had I was staying
(03:41):
on a cattle station outsideAlice Springs called Uramina
Station.
And when I borrowed the office,the station's office to do the
interview where it was quiet.
As soon as I sat down, rang 2GBrang me.
We started doing the interviewabout Tunisia.
There was a goat standingoutside the window.
And as soon as it sees people inthere, it starts screaming for
(04:03):
food.
So the whole way through thisradio interview, I have got a
goat screaming, absolutelyscreaming.
And um this and I thought, Iwonder if they can hear it.
And the bloke, um, MichaelMcLaren, I was talking to, he
said, it sounds like you're inan abattoir.
And um, speaking of which, whatdo they eat in Tunisia?
I'm like, there's a lot of goatbeing eaten.
This goat was just screaming fora moment.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Oh my god, that's so funny.
Do you know what I think aboutwhen you say when you talk about
goats?
Did you see that?
Um, have you seen that video ofthat little Kiwi girl?
And she says, I can't swearbecause we're a clean podcast,
but she says, um, um, look, it'san effing goat.
And then she keeps saying itover and over again, and it is
the funniest thing you'll eversee in your life.
And um, and her mothers keptsaying in the background, no,
(04:49):
it's just a goat.
And she keeps going, I haven'tseen this an effing goat.
And it's so it's hilarious.
She's a little Kiwi kid.
It's so funny.
And every time anyone mentionsgoats, that's all I think about.
SPEAKER_02 (05:02):
I I might have been saying that under my breath, but
I was on live radio, um, liveSydney radio, so I didn't
actually say it either.
Because we like to keepourselves nice here, don't we,
Kirsty?
SPEAKER_01 (05:13):
Well, that's so funny.
But um, yeah, I wonder if didyou hear bat, did you hear, did
you listen back?
Was the could you hear the goat?
SPEAKER_02 (05:20):
Well, I've only just got back, so I've got the link
now.
I had almost no Wi-Fi um in thewhole time in Central Australia,
so I haven't listened to it backnow.
But I had it, I had it just itwas just echoing in my head, and
I was dying of embarrassment.
And the bloody thing onlystopped when we went outside and
gave it something to eat.
I swear to God, it was nearlykebab.
(05:43):
Which is what they eat inTunisia.
SPEAKER_01 (05:46):
Oh, that is so funny.
That's so funny.
Well, you can actually scroll onback and and find um Val's um
podcast episode where she talkedabout Tunisia because and that
was one that was really welllistened to as well, because it
was fascinating.
Um, so scoot on back and andfind that if you want to,
because we've got pretty goodback catalogue now.
We're up to episode 115.
SPEAKER_02 (06:07):
Um, yeah, this I mean the interview came around
because I just had the coverstory in the Sydney Morning
Herald about Tunisia.
So I'm gonna drop a link to thatin the show notes as well.
It's it's been going off.
You gotta go.
SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
Great.
Well, this week we are talkingabout the issues that give
travelers the ick when they aretraveling.
And I have to say, I have aquite a few that get on my goat
too, Val.
So Vodafone has said that loudtalkers in quiet places was top
(06:41):
of the list.
I have to say, this really doesirk me.
Uh that you know, when you'reespecially when you're in a and
when you're in a train, it'sreally annoying as well.
Um, but in a plane, it's yeah,that's a bit frustrating.
You know, when you're just on a,especially when you're on an
overnight flight and someone'stalking really, really
ridiculously loud.
Anyway, so that's one of thethat what that was what topped
the list.
SPEAKER_02 (07:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, nearly half of Australianssay that that is their biggest
travel ick.
And also, too, you know, whenpeople don't put their earphones
in and stuff.
So you're just listening tosomebody banging on, you know,
so they so you've got to hearboth sides of the conversation,
which is possibly even worse.
Um, the next one on the list wasthe human snail.
Uh, can't believe that I'm theone that's gonna read this one
(07:23):
out, and that is the always latetravel companion.
Look, I definitely skim thetime.
Kirsty initially wrote in ascript that this is me, I you I
am always traveling late.
I want to defend myself on thisone.
I skim, I skim the time herebecause, in my defense, I am a
very busy woman.
But also, I cannot, cannot spendthree hours hanging around at an
(07:46):
airport before a flight becauseusually I'm not in the lounge,
baby.
I'm stuck out the front.
Um, and it's a waste of life.
They only tell you to go thereso early so that you can spend
all your money in the bloodycafes.
So, uh please don't start mebecause I know you are very
early and you're very good andvery organized.
Um so also moving right alongfrom the ick that is late
(08:11):
travelers, um, high on the icklist also are drunken behavior
and shameless photo bombers,which are so annoying.
This also goes about, like, youknow, when you try to get a nice
photo of your kids on holidaysand one of them's always got
their mouth wide open, theirtongue hanging out, or they turn
their face away, or they pullthose hideous faces.
(08:31):
So, does that class as ashameless photo bomber or travel
egg?
Dunno.
SPEAKER_01 (08:37):
I don't know.
Either way, so annoying.
Yeah.
Yes, either way, so annoying.
So the phone addict um whospends more time scrolling on
their phone and snapping photosfor Instagram was high in the
ratings, along with a fussyfoodie.
So that's someone who refuses totry the local cuisine and owns
two Aussie style cafes.
(08:57):
Um, I mean, what's the point inthat?
And anyway, how can you evenfind Aussie style cafes
anywhere?
You can't.
Um, and a third of Aussies getthe travel act with companions
who become the budget police onholidays and question every
dollar spent.
And I have to say, my husbanddoesn't do that on the holiday,
but he does do that before theholiday and even creates
(09:18):
spreadsheets.
And do you know how heannoyingly puts things on?
Like if you go and buy a new,like I bought a July suitcase
and he went and put the luggageon his spreadsheet and then
claimed it as part of the costof our holiday.
And I'm like, you cannot do thatbecause I can use that luggage,
you know, forever.
So um, yes, that's veryannoying.
(09:39):
So he is definitely, in fact,you know, I've got friends who
call him the finance police.
That's what they call them.
SPEAKER_02 (09:44):
Oh, fine.
Our household is spend, don'tlook.
Um, so yeah, we run on thatmotto.
There's I really don't have thatproblem in mind.
My husband's like, yeah, he'suh, yeah, he just wants to go
and live it up and and uh thinkabout it later on.
Um other things that really irkus are littering.
Gotta say, this wrecks my head,absolutely wrecks my head,
(10:06):
littering.
Putting your feet up on publictransport doesn't wreck me as
much as littering, but crowdingthe baggage carousel.
Oh my goodness.
I you know what I just did on mylast trip.
I just pulled my bag out and andthat and I said to somebody,
excuse me, excuse me.
They wouldn't move.
What are you gonna do?
You just run over their toes,really.
Unless, unless they're like, youknow, super, you know, unless
(10:29):
they're like a tiny child or aor an old person, you know, with
sticks and stuff like that.
It's like, how many times do Ihave to ask you to get out of
the road before I haul mysuitcase over you?
And that was a heavy suitcase.
It's like I've do you know what?
I've asked you enough.
I have just been sitting on aflatulent filled tin can for the
(10:49):
past 14 hours.
My patience is at an all-timelow, people.
I've asked you nicely and askingyou again.
And you were probably the onecreating a little flatulence as
well.
So you doubly knead your toes.
SPEAKER_01 (11:02):
I f well last time we flew, we had someone, I was
standing there, Dave and I werestanding there together.
Actually, this was just when wewent up to Noosa, and we were
just standing there together,and this guy and I came along
and literally stood.
So we were sort of on the yellowline, you know, so as close as
you're allowed to get in ourlittle spot.
Um, and this person came andstood right bang in front of me,
(11:25):
like like literally, so therewas no way I had nowhere to go.
He was like right in front ofme, and then he just and and
then he was like so close that Icould smell him.
And I was like, what is sowrong?
Why do you guys stand, need tostand in front of someone that
close?
Like just go find another spotor wait.
I just find the whole thing justridiculously rude.
(11:45):
Anyway, another funny one nearlyone in four Aussies get the
travel ick if a stranger orpeople generally clap when the
plane lands.
Oh my god, how many times hasthis happened?
I cannot tell you how many timesI've been it's happened to me so
many times.
I've been in a plane, the planecomes in for a landing and
everyone starts clapping.
Oh no, why don't we all startbooing when it's a really bad
(12:07):
landing?
SPEAKER_02 (12:07):
Haven't been on a clapping flight for quite a long
time.
I I used to fly a lot, the umflying in and out of Italy.
I I do think that uh flights inand out of Italy get a lot of
clapping.
Um, and the last time I had aflight where people clapped was
it was a really awful, trickylanding, and we were being
buffeted and the the the planeand everybody was deathly quiet.
(12:28):
You know, one of those oneswhere everybody just like gets
in behind the the pilot, youknow, and they're really quiet
because you're just beingknocked around in the air.
And so when we landed, everybodyapplauded because the pilot was
just working with some reallyawful crosswinds.
So I don't know.
I'm not sure that one is my wasa massive, a massive ick.
But um, you know, when it comesto arguments with our trouble
(12:50):
partner, um mostly over notbeing able to contact each other
after you separate.
You know, if you're like goingabout different things in a day,
not being able to contact eachother, that is a pain in the
backside.
Getting lost, having no accessto maps.
I I've got to say, I do usepaper maps for that reason.
Um, not having mobile data orreceiving an unexpectedly high
(13:13):
phone bill after the trip, thatis an absolute killer.
That is that is brutal.
What about you?
What's your worst travel eat,Kirsty?
SPEAKER_01 (13:24):
To me, it honestly just comes down to respect.
So, you know, that person whojust throws back their seat with
little consideration,particularly on a domestic
flight.
And so you've got your laptop upand they just throw it back, and
you're like, your laptop justabout gets snapped in half.
Um, or you know, they throw itback before the meal.
Um, and also airplane toilets.
I mean, we're all in this thingfor hours.
(13:48):
Can you please just aim?
Like, just if you don't knowlike, and you can wash your
hands.
So just touch it, aim correctly,wash your hands so that we can
all don't have sticky feet um onthe flight.
Because that is just the mostrevolting thing in the world.
Um, how about you, Belle?
(14:08):
What's yours?
SPEAKER_02 (14:09):
Well, I've got to say having somebody else's urine
on my shoes does rate as a veryhigh travel egg.
Oh, it is disgusting.
Honestly, I'm I'm gonna put inwith the toilets there somebody
who's been in the toilet for aconsiderable period of time.
And sometimes that just happens,right?
But then when they come out,they just leave the door open.
(14:30):
And if you're unlucky to besitting in those couple of rows
near the toilet, and you'relike, bro, you have just about
brutalized that very smallspace, and you've left and you
just sort run out like youhaven't got a care in the world,
and you leave the door openbehind you, and it's meal
service, and it's just like, getout of my life, you animal.
(14:52):
You animal, you're disgusting.
Yeah, it's all about thetoilets.
SPEAKER_01 (15:10):
This week I'm chatting to founder and managing
director of Take Off Go, IvonaShineska, who is an expert in
African safaris and has visitedAfrica 40 times.
Oh, she's just got the dreamlife right.
How did you guys meet?
We actually met at an industryevent that I attended for
Carry-on, and um, we were at adinner, and we really hit it
(15:32):
off, and we've been chattingwith each other ever since.
And she is just has such a deeppassion for Africa and wildlife.
And when I was chatting to herand she was telling me all her
insights into Africa, I thought,oh my God, everyone else needs
to hear this.
So um, that's what we did.
We decided to have a littlechat.
So take a listen.
Welcome to the show, Ivana.
(15:52):
Hi, how are you?
It's so great to have you on TheWorld of Waits.
Um, let's start by telling us alittle bit about how you came to
get into the travel industry.
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Um, of course.
Yes, thank you.
I'm excited to be here.
I came, I think travel is alittle bit always in who I am
and who how I grew up.
We were we immigrated to Canadaand when we could spent a lot of
time traveling back to Europe,to Poland, where I was born.
And a lot of that involved costsavings and finding the cheapest
(16:23):
point of entry so we would flyinto Amsterdam, Paris, and then
make our way over to Poland.
So travel was always kind of whoI was growing up, and I was in a
different industry.
I was in the music industry, andthen that that um was put on
pause because the company Iworked for got bought up by a
big record label.
And I went back to bartending,which is great money in North
(16:45):
America and spent a lot of mytime working, and then from um
anything that I effectively madefrom tips I would spend to go
travel.
I applied once upon a time for atravel job and they told me I
didn't have enough salesexperience.
And then so I just keptbartending and then traveling
once every three, four weeksaround Caribbean, Central
America, South America, becauseI was living in Toronto and that
(17:07):
was very close.
Um, then from there, I think itwas January or February, it was
minus 30 degrees outside, and Iwas serving a table of suits.
Um, I was quite tanned, beachy,you know, summer clearly came
back from the tropics and theyasked me about my 10.
(17:28):
And I basically said to themthat, oh, you know, I just came
back from I think it was Cuba orJamaica or somewhere and spoke a
little bit about that.
And it, and they asked, youknow, made a comment about how
I'm excited and passionate abouttravel and yada, yada, yada.
Um, long story short, they endedup being a group of executives
from Flight Center and was kindof prompted then to apply again
(17:53):
and and more or less come in foran interview.
Um, and I couldn't because I wasleaving to China, which then I
think cemented the fact that Itravel quite a bit.
Um, but I ended up interviewingas soon as I got back and
starting three days later.
And then the rest is history.
I've worked kind of in Canadaand in briefly for some
(18:13):
contracts in the UK, and then inthe last 12 years in Australia.
SPEAKER_01 (18:19):
Amazing.
Gosh, yes.
And like, you know, we weresaying earlier, it's all about
the love of travel, right?
That's why we're in it.
So um, was it what is it aboutthe uh saferis that has made you
a specialist in that area?
And um, and what makes you keepwanting to go back on safari?
SPEAKER_00 (18:35):
Well, um, well, I love the world, and then safaris
was kind of always on the list,but not necessarily just
saferis.
In 2010, there was meant to be aGlobal Achievers Award in South
Africa, which I had qualifiedfor, but a few months out they
changed it because of conflictwith the World Cup.
And I decided I was going tocontinue to travel anyways, um,
(18:58):
and came and spent what wasmeant to be three months in
Africa, ended up being aboutnine, fell in love with it, um,
traveling through all of EastAfrica, Southern Africa, and it
really just brought me at thetime, I suppose, and and every
single time thereafter, itbrought me peace.
There's there's something aboutbeing here in Africa and all of
(19:19):
it, which is really hard togeneralize a continent because
you wouldn't do it anywhereelse.
Um, but there's a level ofhumanity here.
Um, and that that's just fromkind of the people that I
absolutely love, which brings meback.
But also in the safari space,there's something about driving
out that it's you become thetruest form of yourself.
(19:41):
So I always say to people, um, Ikeep coming back for the people,
the place, which is just thenatural mother nature and her
beauty, um, the peace that itbrings, because it just settles
all of your thoughts.
You you very much are left witha point of reflection when
you're, you know, staring outfrom a vehicle into a pride of
(20:02):
lions or or elephants or animpala in a tree.
Um, and then the perspective.
And I think every single time Icome here, that that reflection
just keeps me coming back overand over and over again because
you really do when you'resurrounded by wildlife, there's
nothing else that you can thinkof other than how small and
(20:24):
insignificant some of ourproblems can be.
And so it really kind of justrecenters you and helps you, I
suppose, find yourself again andfind that peace.
Not to say that I need it, butit it really kind of just
reaffirms um who I am each andevery single time I'm here.
(20:45):
Um, plus, it's it's justincredible.
Like being out in the bush, thesmell in the morning, the dust
settling over the sunrise.
Um it's incredible.
Just driving out, the noises youhear at night.
I slept in Johannesburg lastnight and it was the first
silent sleep I've had in twoweeks because I've been out in
the bush.
So in the middle of the night inthe bush, you might hear hippos
(21:06):
grazing outside of your tent.
You might hear um alarm callsoff in the distance, or
elephants, and there's justsomething about it that's that's
it gets under your skin.
And most people who have been toAfrica will tell you the same
thing.
There's just something aboutAfrica that the moment you set
foot here, you feel like youbelong.
And as soon as you leave, thatyou're just left with this
(21:28):
overwhelming desire to return.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Amazing.
And what do you think are sortof the things that most people
um, you know, want to see?
I mean, obviously the big five,but do most people that come to
you, you know, because you'rebased in Melbourne, obviously,
and uh well, and all andobviously that you you are are
assisting um travel luxurytravelers and travelers from all
over Australia, but are theymostly coming to you saying, I
(21:53):
want to go to Africa because Iwant to see the big five?
Or are there other reasons?
Uh I mean, that would be theprimary reason, right?
SPEAKER_00 (22:01):
It's it's a mixture.
Some, some, yes, um, they theycome to us because, or to me
specifically, because they wantto see the big five.
Um, I kind of never really stoptalking about Africa, and
everyone who knows me knows thatI'm here as often as I possibly
can be.
And so usually what happens isif anybody remotely mentions
(22:21):
Africa in conversation, somebodywill be like, you have to speak
to Ivana.
Some people come to me and andthey, you know, they know
exactly what they want to see.
They have seen documentariesabout Nagorongoro Crater and
want to do East Africa, see themigration, the big five safaris.
Some people come with a very,very, I suppose, clean slate and
(22:43):
just say Africa's on theirbucket list, they don't really
know where or how um or or whichpart to see.
And I think that's where themagic happens.
Um, we spend a lot of timegetting to know the guests that
we send to Africa.
Um, you know, if somebody emailsme and they just want this,
this, and this, and this, I'mvery, very reluctant to ever
just confirm that booking.
(23:04):
I believe every experience inAfrica can be personalized.
So spend a lot of time gettingto know the individual, their
likes, their dislikes.
Ideally, it's a face-to-facecoffee or lunch ketchup, even
better if it's a glass of wine.
At the very least, a long phonecall and Zoom because it can be
catered so specifically to eachindividual, even down to the
(23:26):
camps that we used to sendpeople.
Um it really just depends.
I think there's a lot of Africato cover.
Um, East Africa is verydifferent to Southern Africa.
And in the last few years, we'vehad these amazing nature
documentaries on Netflix, youknow, BBC, The Planet Earth,
(23:48):
where it highlights variousparts of it.
So I think some guests don'tnecessarily know how much of it
can be combined or how much ofit can be focused on one
destination.
I've just had 10 10 nights inZambia.
Um, you can do Zambia alone for10, 15 nights, or you can
(24:08):
combine Zambia on a 15-nightSouthern Africa itinerary.
So a lot of it is getting toknow the guests what they want,
but then also personalizingevery single trip.
Because no two trips are thesame to Africa, no two days are
the same in Africa, no twodrives are the same.
And the more you can cater thatexperience to what that person
wants, will you see the bigfive, with the exception of a
(24:31):
few places where rhino might bea scarcity?
That's a polite word, whererhino may no longer exist
because of poaching.
Um, the other four arerelatively, I mean, they're in
existence.
So whether or not you see them,leopards are elusive.
You know, those ones tend to bethe hardest, but but there are
(24:52):
reserves where the concentrationof game are are higher, you're
more likely to see them.
You would never guaranteeanything.
Um, but you can kind of resteasy, knowing that that if
somebody specifically theirfavorite animal is a leopard, I
would probably send them to, youknow, South Luangua in in Zambia
has the highest concentration ofleopard in the world or sabby
(25:15):
sand.
So there's places that anAfrican specialist will be able
to cater to the specific guest,depending if they're focused on
specifically seeing an animal,if they want human aspect of it.
Some people want to interactwith villages, see the Maasai,
see the Bushmen of the Kalahari,there's the Himba tribes of
Namibia.
There's, I mean, it's endlessexperiences you can offer in
(25:39):
Africa.
So it's really getting to knowthe guests and what what they
are off after to ensure thatwhat we are putting together
tailors to them and is theironce-in-a-lifetime trip.
And I use air quotes, which youwon't be able to see on a
podcast, um, because it'sthere's no such thing as a
(26:00):
once-in-a-lifetime trip.
Everybody comes back and and andsays they want to go back,
they'll get back there.
I had a couple who returned, Ithink I mentioned this to you
last time.
Their once-in-a-lifetime tripwas in 2013, and they've come
back from their ninth trip.
So people do return over andover and over again because all
of the reasons I've mentioned.
Um, so yes, you can have yourfirst trip to see the safaris
(26:23):
and the animals and perhaps thebig five, or they want to see
the winelands or you know, TableMelton, or Kilomanjoro.
Um, but there's something aboutthe the region as a whole that
brings people back.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
Amazing.
My gosh, yes.
You you you're selling it verywell.
So um and I guess this then uhsort of leads uh into that whole
issue, right?
Of so many people and a lot ofpeople wanting to go.
And there have been a lot ofunfortunately images out there
of like wildlife surrounded bytrucks.
(26:59):
So, like, you know, 10, 10 or 15trucks and like dozens and
dozens of people surrounding,you know, just a few, just a few
animals.
SPEAKER_00 (27:15):
That neighbor or private concessions within where
it does limit the vehicle, butin Serengeti, Masaymara's the
majority of the park is public.
So everybody traverses the samemain road, which often means and
it exists in southern Africa aswell.
But to speak of the footage, Ithink it was Nick Lear, who's a
guide, who posted the first one,which is the one that went
(27:37):
viral.
If somebody sees something, theystop, which then means another
vehicle stops and then anothervehicle stops.
So yes, you can have theseincredibly immersive, intimate
experiences where it's justyourself, your one vehicle, or
maybe one other vehicle fromyour camp next to a pride of
lions.
A lot of the footage we've beenseeing is dozens and dozens of
(28:01):
vehicles.
The which sometimes is is justthe way it is, and that's fine.
I think the biggest thing iswe're working with properties
and with gods who still respectthe natural and understand and
animals' behavior, can read ifthe animal is becoming stressed.
They won't surround it from youknow all angles.
The animal should always have anexit point, should they not wish
(28:24):
to be closer to the vehicles.
The if you're in a game vehicle,the wild animal, whether it be a
leopard, a cheetah, a lion, um,a buffalo, an elephant, it does
see you as one main object.
So if there's a lot of bigobjects, you're very safe in
your vehicle.
If there's a lot of these bigobjects that they see that are
obstructing their roads, usuallywhat they'll do is they'll just
(28:46):
find a way to traverse somewhereelse or walk around it.
Um, you know, I've often haveleopards walking by the vehicle,
and we're not disturbing thembecause the guides and the
properties in the camps that wework with know how to read their
behavior.
So rather than stopping the cardirectly in front of them,
they'll see the leopard 200meters away, can figure out the
path it's going to take, andwe'll just stop the vehicle and
(29:07):
you get to witness thisbeautiful, majestic, regal
creature walking at you from 200meters away past you and
onwards.
And that's where you realize we,you know, we're we're guests in
their kingdom.
Where it gets tricky is a lot ofplaces have guides where, you
know, they just their guestsmight just offer them money,
(29:30):
tips, etc.
To nope, they want the shot,they want the shot, go closer,
go closer, and that becomes anan area of contention.
And unfortunately, you know,this part of the world is
beautiful and the people areamazing, is also known for a
little bit of corruption.
So the, you know, that footagethat we saw of people, it wasn't
(29:51):
just the vehicles.
The shocking part about it wasthat there was people outside of
the vehicles standing on thebanks of the river.
Well, the migration of thewildebeest.
Is trying to cross effectivelyin search of greener pastures.
They're trying to get out of thewater and they can't even make
it up to the embankment becauseit's not just vehicles that are
blocking their migration routes,which are millennial old.
(30:15):
It's people out of the vehicles,which is stupid.
Like it's absolutely stupid.
It's not just endangering theanimal, which might then force
it to go back into thesecrocodile-infested waters.
It's endangering themselves.
If there's that much welderbees, there is predators around.
If you're standing outside ofthe vehicles, like it's I it was
shocking footage in ourindustry.
(30:35):
Like I'm so beyond words.
Because how on earth you wouldA, let your guests out of a
vehicle, B, have that manyvehicles on their route, but C
also just endanger your ownlives as a guest to get to get a
photo.
It's it's an absolute blessingand relief that nothing happened
(30:56):
to a single human in all of it.
The impact on the wildlife isatrocious, but it's just silly.
And then to have seen it threeweeks or four weeks later, on
the same thing happening on theKenyan side.
It's yeah, I'm ugh.
Angry words.
Um, but the issue is it's everyso a lot of people on their
bucket list have the greatmigration because they see these
(31:18):
amazing, amazing um, you know,Attenborough, BBC, wildlife
documentaries where it'shundreds of thousands of wilder
beasts crossing the river all atonce.
And so many guests tend tocongregate to these areas in
July and August, where becausethe river serpents, it's the
highest likeliness that you willsee the river crossings.
(31:40):
What people don't understand issometimes you will sit on that
same spot by the river for aweek and not a single animal
will cross.
Wildebees have been doing thiscircular clockwise migrations
for centuries, and which is whythey always have similar
crossing paths.
And while they have evolved toknow which way to go and search
in greener pastures and have thesame paths and routes that they
(32:02):
take, they're also not thesmartest animal.
So they'll go up to the waterwater, sniff it, come back out.
So waiting for a migration tocross could take thick hours.
You know, sometimes they'll goin, then they'll come back.
Sometimes they'll go in, bechased by a crocodile, go back
out, and then eventually stilltry to cross.
It's it is the greatest show onearth.
(32:23):
It's extraordinary if you get tosee it, but it attracts so many
people who then crowd and waitand see it and s and wait for
this glimpse of something thatmay or may not happen, which
attracts so many vehicles.
So along the banks of the river,every single year in July and
August, you just havepermanently placed vehicles.
Many are professionalphotographers, many are guests.
(32:43):
Majority of these guests,photographers, guides, do the
right thing.
They stay further back.
They're in these areas, though.
You can have day trippers,self-drivers from some of the
local cities, or you can have uhfreelance guides who, you know,
will take a group of guests andcome in.
So while the professionalguides, everyone's a
(33:05):
professional guide, but whilethe main lodges who respect the
animals may be back from theembankment, giving these animals
space, what happens is more andmore vehicles congregate and
then it just becomesoverwhelming, full of vehicles,
the footage that you see withwith hundreds of vehicles,
people get out for I the stillthe people getting out is beyond
(33:26):
me, but people want a bettershot.
They get out.
Many guests spend a lot of moneyto come to these regions for
this shot.
I would never risk my life for aphoto, but we are we're living
in the day and age of socialmedia where, you know, whatever
photo makes you more viral.
It's it's strange.
Combat that, you know, it's inKenya, for instance, the Masay
(33:48):
Mara has put up their park fees.
It's 200 US per day.
Um, yet everybody wants to come.
And so you're still getting thisamount of vehicles.
The pro, I think working with anAfrican specialist, what you can
tell people is that you canstill go see animals sealed.
While you may not necessarilyever guarantee a river crossing,
you can still go to theseregions.
You can see the savannas, theopen plains, you can see, see
(34:12):
the beauty of that region, butstay in private conservations,
in in the concessions where theylimit the amount of vehicles,
where the land is leased fromthe Maasai, for instance, and
they build their lodges to workwith the Maasai so that they
understand the value of tourismand giving back to the
community.
And there it limits thevehicles.
So you guides respect eachother.
(34:34):
You know, if it's leopard cubsor line cubs, sometimes you may
only have one vehicle there toensure that that cub is slowly
being introduced to vehiclesrather than 20 vehicles all at
once.
And then most of those privatereserves will then limit any
vehicle siding to three vehiclesto kind of treat Mother Nature
(34:56):
as as we are there, as a guestrather than congregate.
But with mass tourism in theseareas, there will, it's shocking
this year, um, but there willalways be a congregation and a
large volume of vehicles.
It exists in Southern Africa aswell.
Everybody thinks of the Kruger,Kruger National Park is very
similar.
You're stuck to the main road.
(35:18):
Anyone can come in and there'slodges within Kruger, there's
campsites, self-camping,self-drive.
So you get a lot of vehicles.
There's the greater Krugerregion has.
(35:50):
We had a great guide the otherday with time and tide in South
Luango.
There was a leopard up in atree, which is for most people
an iconic, you know, tick, takea photo of a leopard in a tree,
um, I guess, checklist, bucketlist item.
And South Luango is a nationalpark, so they're they don't
limit the vehicles.
Our guide was fantastic.
George decided to stay backbecause he didn't feel right
(36:12):
about it.
There was already six vehiclesthere.
The leopard needs to be able tosee what it's hunting, needs to
be able to jump down easily andstep away.
And it was one of every singleone in our vehicle was so
relieved because we don't wantto overwhelm that that cat.
And we went 300 meters later,um, further, and that's where we
waited.
And Lucy the leopard walked byour vehicle.
(36:34):
So a lot of it is working withcamps, with lodges, with guides
who respect animals, respecttheir natural habitat, and won't
do anything for their guests'photo, um, which sometimes is
disappointing to the guests.
But I think the onus is on us toalso give people very realistic
expectations as to what you mayor may not see, but also
(36:56):
emphasize the value of theirlives, of the lives of these
animals.
If animals become too habituatedand they start coming into camp
or jumping into vehicles,eventually they will have to be
put down.
And nobody wants that.
So education is a very key partof the consulting process for
anyone who sells Africa.
And that's part another reasonwhy it's, you know, it's no two
(37:18):
itineraries are the same.
Some guests might feel very,very, you know, very
apprehensive about being closeto an animal on, on, on a feed,
on a keel.
Um, other guests want to see itall.
So it's just kind of settingthose realistic expectations.
And and the guides are I'venever had a bad guide because I
(37:38):
work with the right properties,but the guides are absolutely
incredible at um reading ourbehavior as guests, not just at
the animals, but our behavior asguests to ensure that we are
comfortable.
The last thing you want to do ishave a guest scream or act out.
Um, if if a line does get tooclose, so it's guides are
(38:01):
really, really good at gauging,and it's safety first for
everyone (38:04):
animal safety, human safety, guest safety, their own
safety.
Um, you know, we can see a lonebull elephant, and while it
looks amazing and people want tosee it closer, the guides will
know that no, he's in must.
We need to get away as quicklyas possible.
So working with the right camps,the right guides is key.
I would be very, very reluctant.
(38:26):
I've been 40 times and I wouldstill never self-drive.
So I think, yes, there's a lotof over tourism, and people do
think it's accessible and thebeauty of you know, AI, you can
plan these things online, but itwhere are you compromising your
safety if you're trying to do ityourself or cut corners or be
closer to the animals?
SPEAKER_01 (38:45):
Yeah, wow, that's so insightful and interesting.
And and really, like you said,it comes down to making sure
that you you you understand andyou and you're doing your
research and you and you'regoing through experts, so you're
actually um working with themost responsible um operators in
regards to ensuring becauseotherwise we, you know, like you
(39:06):
said, I mean, even if theyincrease the costs, it's not
having an impact on theovertourism.
So the reality is at the end ofthe day, uh, you know, we we
don't want to all risk actuallylosing the opportunity
altogether.
What um what what are some ofyour would your tips be then for
what are just a couple of toptips for people who who have
never been before, who who wouldwho would say come to you and
(39:28):
say, I really want to experienceum the local people, um, you
know, some wildlife and uh andand a really nice sort of
safari, comfortable sort ofmaybe slightly luxe um safari
experience.
What would your what would yourtops be for top top tips be for
someone who was consideringthat?
SPEAKER_00 (39:49):
I think from a guest's perspective, um, you
know, in in in I suppose thecomfortable luxury space, the
it's endless.
The service levels in Africa areunparalleled anywhere else.
The lodges are unbelievable.
Some of them have five rooms,some have maximum 12.
So there's the exclusivity andcomfort levels do exist.
From a guest perspective, it'smaking sure you're speaking to
(40:09):
somebody, an agent, aspecialist, and being as honest
and asking all the questions youwant.
Um, you know, there's no suchthing as a silly question.
We we've been here, most of ushave been here endless times,
which is why it's become such apassion.
So asking so that you areunderstanding on what you're
experiencing or expecting whenyou arrive is great.
(40:30):
And asking the guides thequestion.
Guides are full of information.
I learn something new everysingle day when I'm here.
So I think, you know, if youwant to see the gorillas, be
honest.
Say you might have mobilityissues.
And then we can say, okay, well,you know, gorilla trekking is
amazing.
In Rwanda, shorter hikes, buthigher altitude.
In Uganda, longer heights, loweraltitude.
And so, really, kind of the moreopen a guest or an agent is
(40:54):
about the traveler, the morethat the itinerary can really be
curated to not just their wantsand what they want to see, but
their needs and their comfortlevel.
And then from a safari point ofview, I mean it's mix it up.
Like Zambia is is eaten.
It's it's amazing.
Don't necessarily think thatbecause you see Kenya, Tanzania
on nature docks, that that's themost amount of animals.
(41:17):
Um, Lower Zambezi National Park,where I was just was
unbelievable.
I stopped counting elephantsbecause every single photo we
took was surrounded byelephants, babies, all the
animals.
So I think it's be open to newdestinations, especially if if
there's um, you know, time ofyear constraints or or you want
(41:39):
more value out of your money,but also take the guidance.
If if the more forthcomingpeople are with information, the
better the guidance can be fromus and you know, East Africa,
can your comfort levels may notbe the same for one guest as
they might be for another?
And we can really kind of tailorif Madagascar, if Namibia, if
Botswana, if Kenya, Zambia arethe right fit for that guest.
SPEAKER_01 (42:04):
Yeah, great advice.
Um, and um, we're running out oftime, but I'm gonna quickly ask
you what's your favorite safaridestination and why?
SPEAKER_00 (42:13):
I don't know that I have one, and everybody asks me
this.
I mean, this these these lastnine nights that I had in Zambia
completely blew my mind, and Iwant to return.
Already I'm like, when can Icome back?
Um, Botswana is very special aswell because because it's it's
Botswana and that's what's allon all the nature docs, but
Zambia has the water activitiesas well.
(42:33):
There's something about thelower, um, the greater Kruga
area.
I love Sabi Sand.
Love Sabi Sand.
Um, I've stayed.
Dulini is actually the only campI've ever returned to in all of
these years of traveling to,because it's I just loved it so
much.
But then you have fantasticproperties in the southern part
of Sabi Sand where the serviceis just you leave feeling like
(42:56):
family.
So that's where I send all of myguests.
Um, you know, Lion Sands is thatwhole concession is private.
It's amazing.
I don't know, but then Tanzaniaspecial, I really don't know.
I don't have a favoritedestination.
So long as I'm out in the bush,I am happy out in the bush, you
know, surrounded by wildlife,the the the sun-torched earth,
(43:16):
the smell in the air, thethere's turtle, cake turtle
doves make this noise that Idon't know how to mimic, but you
hear it when you're drivingthrough.
And that for me is peace, andit's my happy place.
So I don't, I don't really knowthat I have a favorite.
So long as I'm in the bush, it'smy favorite.
SPEAKER_01 (43:31):
Amazing.
Well, look, I have to ask youthe last question we ask all of
our guests, which is what's themost bizarre thing that's ever
happened to you on your travels?
SPEAKER_00 (43:39):
Years ago, now maybe in 2013, I was in Madagascar,
um, which is amazing.
It's it's it's it's a wholeother continent, really.
I mean, it's part of Africa, butit could be its whole other
continent just because of thespecies that you find there.
They have 103 species of lemurs,which is amazing.
But I was there photographing alemur um outside of on the sea
bay and and just had my SLR outtaking photographing a lemur in
(44:02):
a tree, and another lemur,different species, jumped up on
my shoulders and actually triedto try to look through the
viewfinder.
And I have this photo of metrying to take a photo, lemur
trying to stick a skin in crapon my shoulder for like a good
three, four minutes, trying to,I guess, see what I was seeing.
(44:22):
Um, and then got a bit bored andjumped off by amazing.
Um, and I'd I'd I'm I'm not forhuman wildlife kind of
connection anywhere.
But if an animal lemurs arethey're not predators, but if
they jump on you, um I'm notgoing to, you know, you kind of
just go with it.
And and I suppose that that'swhere the embracing the bizarre,
definitely one of the mostbizarre things that's happened
(44:45):
to me.
Um but yeah, a special moment inhindsight.
SPEAKER_01 (44:49):
Yes, I bet.
Oh my gosh, it's been so amazingtalking to you.
And we're gonna put a link inthe show notes um about where
people can reach out to you.
But thank you so much for takingthe time to talk to us.
SPEAKER_02 (45:00):
Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
I absolutely loved Ivona's tipsabout how to make sure you're
doing the right thing by thewildlife and ensuring that our
future generations can have thesame experiences that we're
having.
So if you'd like to learn moreabout Africa or plan a trip, go
to her website, takeoffgo.com,and we'll put a link in the show
(45:21):
notes.
SPEAKER_01 (45:32):
Our tip this week is as Aussie as they come.
We are revealing for roadtrippers, the road trippers
among us, where to get the bestpie.
SPEAKER_02 (45:40):
Oh, the most important thing, right, when
you're on a road trip.
So the great Aussie piecompetition judges the best pies
and sausage rolls aroundAustralia.
I've got to say, I do love agood pie.
If you ever ask the question whoate all the pies, hands up.
Um, and I will happily detoo itto find the dream pie.
So the competition's beenrunning for about 36 years.
(46:01):
They've got some chops when itcomes to eating all the pies.
The judges spent four daysmunching on pies of all
flavours, and the winner is thebest pie is Paradise Bakehouse
in Bunderburg in Queensland.
SPEAKER_01 (46:14):
And if you're not in regional Queensland anytime
soon, the runner up is the PieFather in the South Sydney
suburb of Roseberry.
Bonus points for the Pie Fatherbecause they're so close to the
airport that um, yeah, justsaying it could be the transit
snap that you didn't know youneeded.
SPEAKER_02 (46:31):
And the winner for the best plain sausage roll is
uh from uh banana boogie in BelAir in the Adelaide Hills.
So that is the basic best plainsausage roll.
If you're looking for somethinga bit more fancy, you will be
driving to Western Australia asthe best gourmet pie was the
beef bouguignon made by theMount Barker Country Bakery in
(46:52):
Mount Barker, which is nearAlbany.
And this bakery also had thebest vegan/slash vegetarian pie,
which is a delicious-soundingroasted cauliflower with black
truffle, black truffle provocheese sauce.
In the middle of nowhere, what awinner.
SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
And if you're a chicken pie lover and you live
in the Blue Mountains, maketracks to Mountain High Pies and
went with Falls for their goldmedal winner, Gourmet Bite of
Chicken Pie, yum yum.
Okay, I'm just gonna add onemore, which isn't on this list,
but it is rated on theAustralian Good Food Guide,
which is a called Island PiesBakery in New Haven, which is on
Phillip Island, and they havethe most incredible pies.
(47:30):
And do you know what they'refamed for?
They are famed for their scalloppies.
SPEAKER_02 (47:35):
Well, I heard they were remarkable too.
So last time I was down inPhillip Island, um, which was
about nine months ago, I think Iwas doing some stuff for Good
Weekend, heard about the pies,did the detour, ate the pies.
They were very good.
Because traditionally, scalloppies are a the preserve of
Tasmania.
Like Tasmania's famous for itsscallop pies.
(47:55):
I think they're a bit hit andmiss sometimes, too much of the
old Keene's curry powder.
So I was I was a bit skeptical,but it fueled me back for the
drive home to um West Melbourne.
SPEAKER_01 (48:06):
So eager.
So there you go.
You verified my uh pierecommendation.
SPEAKER_02 (48:13):
So winner winner chicken dinner to plan your pie
eating adventures.
Jump on greatAussiePiecomp.com.au for the
full list, and we will put theaddress in the show notes so you
can plan your next pie eatingroad trip.
Next week it's Kirsty in the hotseat as she takes us to one of
the world's great archaeologicalsites, Ancore What in CMREAP,
(48:34):
and tells you why this Cambodianlandmark is one of the best
places to travel with yourteens.
SPEAKER_01 (48:41):
And we'd love it if you follow us on socials.
You'll find us at the WorldAwaits Podcast on Instagram,
Facebook, and LinkedIn.
And feel free to drop us a lineat hello at the worldawaits.au
or if you're enjoying thisepisode, we would be so grateful
if you could give us a rating orreview.
SPEAKER_02 (48:56):
That's a wrap for the World Awaits this week.
Click to subscribe anywhere youlisten to your favorite pods.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
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