October 22, 2025 • 37 mins
As Australia celebrates the 40th anniversary of the Uluru Handback, host Belle Jackson shares how you can take a bite of the red dust on a drive holiday around the Red Centre Way.
From Alice Springs/Alice Springs to Watarrka/Kings Canyon and Uluru, here's your list of where to stay, what to eat and some of the best experiences.
Also, the best hotels in the world recognised in the new Michelin Key hotels guide, including the three-key Lizard Island, as well Longtitude 131 near Uluru, Southern Ocean Lodge on Kangaroo Island and Drift House in Port Fairy, Victoria.
And dogs on planes - are you on board? Virgin Australia has launched its new trial, as well as more generous carry-on limits.
Belle's recommendations on the Red Centre Way:
Ooraminna Station, 40 mins from Alice Springs, https://www.ooraminna.com.au/
Ormiston Gorge, West Macdonnell Ranges https://nt.gov.au/parks/find-a-park/tjoritja-west-macdonnell-national-park/ormiston-gorge
Kings Creek Station https://kingscreekstation.com.au/
Ayres Rock Resort, https://www.ayersrockresort.com.au/
Standley Chasm, West Macdonnell Ranges, https://standleychasm.com.au/
Other places mentioned:
Northern Territory Tourism https://northernterritory.com/
Melbourne Winery https://www.melbournewinery.com.au/
Virgin Australia https://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en/
#northernterritory
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
Welcome to the World Awaits.
Travel tales to inspire yourwonderlust.
Welcome back to the WorldAwaits.
How are you all?
How's your week been, Kirsty?
SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
I have been settling back into the grind after going
to Tahiti and was fortunate togo to an industry event in this
last week organized by you,Belle.
Yay! At Melbourne Winery onFlinders Lane.
Oh my god, it was such a coolvenue.
So I had no idea this place wasthere.
So it's actually only opened inApril, and it's Melbourne's
(00:34):
first urban winery, and it's ina building that was built in the
late 1800s, which was recentlyan office building, and it took
them a year to um rebuild it,make it into this winery.
And um funnily enough, they weresaying that there was once an AA
upstairs.
Like it used to be a place wherethat people met Alcoholics
Anonymous upstairs, um, which iskind of funny, but kind of I did
(00:56):
not.
He did say he was going to do anevent with non-alcoholic wine
for people um, you know, to kindof as a homage to that.
But um, yeah, so basically theyhave their own wine label, which
is wine made mostly from theballerine from Scotchman's Hill,
which anyone that knows theirwines would know is pretty
special.
And you can go along and do,they have happy hour for all the
(01:16):
locals, local office workers,and you can also go along and do
this amazing wine tasting.
And it's such a pretty venue.
They just what they've done, theway they've designed it, and
it's massive.
So you walk in and there's like72 wine barrels kind of just
placed randomly around theplace, and there's a beautiful
cocktail bar, and then there'sall the seating, and there's all
these separate kinds of seatingareas.
(01:37):
So, and you can and you canorder food there.
They have really good food.
They had really good pizzas andbeautiful canopies.
Um, so yeah, it was a prettyspecial place.
So if you're in the city andyou're near Flinders, because
it's right near the trainstation, so you know, you can
just call in there, have a fewdrinks, and then jump on the
train on your way home.
How's your how's your week been,Belle?
SPEAKER_04 (01:56):
Oh, well, I'm a bit uh bummed out about missing that
one, to be honest with you.
So I've had a I've had a veryquiet week following my
escapades in the CentralHighlands and Tassie last week.
But I did go to EmiratesRoadshow as they launched their
Euro Summer campaign.
Um, and their hot picks forEurope, I'm pleased to see we
are totally on trend, Kirsty.
(02:17):
Their hot picks are Malta,Norway, and Portugal, just keeps
uh keeps on keeping on with thatone.
Um, staying on airlines, I notewith interest this week was
always also the launch of VirginAustralia's new pet seats, which
we'll tell you more about afterour interview.
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
Yes.
So before we get into all ofthat, we're going to chat about
the newest rating for the hotelfor hotels around the world,
which is called Michelin Keys.
So everyone's heard of Michelin,the Michelin guide, and you
know, knows about the Michelinrestaurant, um, scarred
restaurants.
Um, but they've now extended itto keys.
So it's basically an accoladefrom properties get one to three
(02:58):
keys, and three's the highestyou can get.
Um, and it identifies the besthotels in the world.
So they they use a criteria, andthe five criteria to um for the
mission to get a Michelin key isexcellence in architecture and
interior design, quality andconsistency of service, overall
personality and character, valuefor the price, and a significant
contribution to theneighborhood.
SPEAKER_04 (03:20):
Yeah, so there's um nearly two and a half thousand
properties received a key aroundthe world, but only 133, uh
sorry, 143 of those got thethree keys, which is like the
it's like the gold star forhotels.
Um so expected, as expected,there were such icons as the
Savoy in London, La Malmonia inMarrakesh, which I had the great
(03:43):
joy to stay at years ago, um,the Maldives iconic Cheval
Blanc, and Monaco's Hotel deParis, Monte Carlo, which was of
course a favourite hang ofPrincess Grace, aka Grace Kelly
of Monaco, and in New York, uhCasa Cipriani, which sounds like
a mob hangout, but it actuallyset in a 1906 ferry terminal in
(04:03):
Lower Manhattan.
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
Yeah, and back at home here, we had so Australia
had 35 properties that made thelist, but only one property
actually got the covetedthree-key ranking, and that was
adults only Lizard Island onGreat Barrier Reef in
Queensland.
SPEAKER_04 (04:19):
Have you stayed there?
Because I mean, I was scheduledto stay, I was doing a cover
story for the Sydney MorningHerald on New Island
developments in Queensland, butit was adults only, and I was
traveling with my little babywho was just nine months old at
the time.
She was jumping.
Well, she wasn't jumping, shewas being lifted in and out of
helicopters, but but that ruledme out.
So I haven't stayed, have you?
SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
A nine-month-old, you should have been able to
stay at adults only with anine-month-old.
Um, I also haven't stayed, but Ihave stayed at a few of the
others on the list.
So there were nine in Australiathat got the two keys, and one
of those was longitude one threeone.
Oh my god, this place is beyondremarkable.
So I was actually there whenthey shut that were shutting the
borders for the pandemic.
(05:00):
I was literally there that weekthat we came home from there,
they shut all the borders.
Um, and it's a luxury wildernesscamp with 16 tented pavilions,
and the pavilions are all namedafter Outback explorers, and
they're all sort of dotted.
They call them pavilions, butthey're just like these gorgeous
luxury suites.
They're all dotted among the redrust sort of dunes of the desert
(05:20):
with views across to Uluru.
So in our one, we could just liein bed and look out to Uluru.
It was just amazing.
And the resort's all-inclusiveand the dining, like the food
there, was honestly some of thebest I've ever had, and with a
daily changing menu.
And others on that two key listwere Southern Ocean Lodge on
Kangaroo Island, which wasrecently rebuilt after fire, and
(05:44):
also Sapphire Fashioner and Tazand Jack-Ope Hotel on the
Mornington Peninsula.
And another one I stayed at,which was one key, was the One
Hotel in Melbourne, which is areally new hotel.
And they, it's a sustainable-ledbrand, uh um One Hotels.
And they, oh my God, they reallydo walk the talk.
(06:05):
So they incorporated a 1942industrial Malcolm Moore Crane
into the hotel design, restoredit and repositioned it so it was
sort of like a sculpturaltribute to the shipping, the
area's shipping.
And inside that hotel are 7,000plants and four and a half,
4,500 square metres of reclaimedtimber.
(06:26):
And you see it everywhere whenyou stay in the hotel, you you
see it.
So the reception desk alone ismade up with repurposed elm
trees from Melbourne's MetroTunnel works.
And there's an artwork above thedesk that's crafted from 60
kilograms of textiles that wereotherwise destined for landfall.
I love that so much.
(06:46):
And in the lounge, thedecommissioned railway bridges
were used for the staircase.
And even the floor is is umoffcuts of timber that were hand
cut into little tiles.
Like so that looks like littletiles, a beautiful flooring, but
it's actually off-cuts of oldtimber.
SPEAKER_04 (07:01):
And that's what I guess they're looking for.
They're looking for that thatunique, that sense of place.
I mean, I I loved seeing DriftHouse in Port Ferry on the
Victorian South Coast on thatlist.
Um, and that's a rare thing,another rare thing in Australia,
which is a family-owned and runboutique hotel right at the top
of its game, and it reallyexemplifies that Michelin Key.
Um, I've actually stayed there afew times, and it's each time
(07:23):
it's been spectacular.
But if you're in Sydney, the QT,the Ace, and the new Eve Hotel,
which opened last year inRedfern, made the list, um,
along with the gorgeous capellain the old Department of
Education Building in the city.
And the Langham.
I I've got to say, Kirsty, I wasactually surprised to see Qualia
on Hamilton Island at only onekey.
I thought it would have been atwo key, who knows?
(07:44):
Um, because it is it is just anastonishing piece of um hotel
property.
And a special mention to OsborneHouse in Bandanoon in the New
South Wales Southern Highlands.
Um, I'm it is on the list, andI'm mentioning it because it's
been on my must-visit list for athousand years.
It is just the most.
If you want interior design, oh,it makes my heart sink.
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
I reckon we just need to tickle these 35 off, um,
you know, the ones that wehaven't done.
Um, and we will put a full listof all the hotels in the show
notes, um, where you can alsosearch this for affordable
Michelin Key properties, becauseas they say, it's not just about
the price per night, but aboutoffering a stay with hospitality
and experience that encapsulatea sense of place.
(08:39):
This week I'm Chattana Bell.
She takes us on a drivingholiday through the Red Centre,
so buckle up, friends.
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Oh, absolutely.
It is the iconic Australiandestination.
SPEAKER_04 (08:50):
And um, this is a really timely discussion because
this year marks the 40thanniversary since the Uluru
Handback, which was when thefederal government handed the
title deeds for Uluru back tothe Indigenous people of
Australia.
So they actually own the land.
If you can remember back thattime, it's a really significant,
it was a really significantmoment for Indigenous Australia.
Um, and it's such a symbol ofCentral Australia.
(09:13):
And, you know, of course, it'sone of our most recognizable
landmarks.
SPEAKER_00 (09:16):
Yeah, and when you're there, you certainly feel
it feels pretty special.
Um, so it was good timing to goalong.
So tell us about uh how you howyou got there, Belle.
SPEAKER_04 (09:27):
Well, of course, the easiest way to visit the Red
Centre is to fly into Airs RockAirport, stay at the resort,
jump on some of the activitiesand see Ularu.
It is that easy.
You can tick that box in a longweekend.
But I think that there's um moreto it than just than just Ularu
Katajuda.
So we spent eight days drivingthe Red Center Way.
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
Amazing.
Um, yeah, no, it definitelydeserves more time.
Um so tell for anyone thatdoesn't know what the Red Center
Way is, how long is it and howdo you do it?
SPEAKER_04 (09:59):
Um well, it's a loop drive.
The Red Center Way is a loopdrive between Alice Springs, the
West McDonnell Ranges, KingsCanyon, Uluru, and then you go
back up to Alice Springs.
In total, it's about 1,100kilometres.
Um, there is one section fromthe West Max to Kings Canyon
that is currently unsealed andit's advised as four-wheel drive
only.
So you could start in and inlocation, but usually it's Alice
(10:20):
Springs because that's wheremost of the facilities are,
including car hire andsupermarkets.
You can hire some cars at Uluru,but um in my experience, it's
been really tricky and often youwon't find those four-wheel
drives or a choice.
So we flew in and out of AliceSprings for this journey, and
each day and a bite-sized drive,sometimes just an hour or two.
(10:41):
The longest was the drive backfrom Uluru to Alice Springs,
which took about five hours forthis um, you know, for this
great loop through the RedCenter.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
So tell us uh what did you do it and and where did
you stay?
SPEAKER_04 (10:56):
Well, uh there were five of us.
So we actually, it sounds a bitodd, we actually had two cars.
So we had a brand new four-wheeldrive Ford Warrior, which had
two rooftop tents on top of it,and a Toyota Lancruiser Prado,
which is a standard car out herefor much of the Northern
Territory's government fleet,just because it is really such a
sturdy car.
In the past, I've done sectionsof this drive in a regular
(11:17):
two-wheel drive car.
And as a bloke said to me in theWestmax, most of the residents
out here, and by that he meansum people living in the villages
and communities around thisarea, are banging along in old
Commodores.
So you don't have to be kittedout of the big macho$10,000
four-wheel drive kit.
But of course, you know, afour-wheel drive doesn't
actually hurt.
So we had we had the um twotents on top and um and another
(11:42):
tent below.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
So what was it like?
So were you staying in there?
SPEAKER_04 (11:48):
Yeah, yeah, we were camping.
We had those rooftop tents,which are amazingly easy.
After the first time to pop itup, here's a hot tip.
Don't try to put them up thefirst time in the dark.
Um, very boring.
And and we had another singletent on the side just to
accommodate all of us.
There was um me, my friend Jude,her, two teenage boys, and I had
my teenage daughter as well.
(12:09):
So the first night was actuallyreally interesting.
We stayed at a property calledOrimina Station, which is about
40 minutes southeast of AliceSprings.
Um, and then we stayed in theOrmiston Gorge in the Westmax.
We stayed at King's CreekStation, which is about 30
minutes from King's Canyon.
And then down in Uluru, um,Ezrock Resort is the main place
you can stay.
(12:30):
And it has accommodation therefrom the highest longitude,
which we were talking aboutearlier as Michelin Key
property, down to thecampground, the slightly more
humble campground where westayed.
Although it did have a lot ofgreat facilities, you know,
laundries and hot showers and umpicnic areas and um and a
swimming pool as well.
So, you know, we weren't totallyroughing it, I've got to say.
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
That was gonna be my next question.
What were the campgrounds like?
Um, and obviously because a lotof people road trip there,
right?
So you're gonna have goodcampgrounds.
That's um so what do you do ifwhat about if you don't have
sort of where where would youstay if you didn't have uh
somewhere to with camping gear?
SPEAKER_04 (13:10):
Well, yeah, if you don't have all the gear, I mean,
firstly, we didn't have to lugall of our gear up from
Melbourne.
It came with a van hire.
So the sleeping bags, thecooking equipment, the tents,
everything was already in there.
Um, we did pack very lightlythough, too, because those, a
lot of those, um, like you can'tjust fill up with giant bags um
of your own gear.
So you've you've got to keep itlight because you've got your
(13:31):
food in there and you've gotwater and things like that.
But look, even if you weren't acamper, that is totally not
going to stop you.
As I said at the top, you know,you can fly in and stay at one
of the best hotels in thecountry if you're going to.
Um, Alice obviously has a lot ofaccommodation.
And then Uramina Station, whichI mentioned, um, which is this
old cadle station, it's so likeit's such a an amazing place.
(13:53):
You know, the the landscape isincredible because you've got
this red desert, you've gotthese escarpments everywhere.
Um, that the woman who boughtUramina actually um has been
using it as um for movie forfilming movies on site.
So it was really strange.
We drove in and and youliterally drive into like an old
town main street on thisstation, which has been built.
(14:16):
So they're just facades builtfor a movie site, so for a movie
setting.
So you've got the old palm.
SPEAKER_05 (14:22):
Yeah, it's got the palm with the piano in it, which
is absolutely kills what areloved there, a bit the teens out
there.
SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
Yeah, I was like, get on the lockup, guys, which
is the police station.
It was the road.
Um so you could camp aroundthose sort of areas, which was
which was great.
SPEAKER_04 (14:37):
And then um, but it also has these four beautiful
little stone cottages that arebuilt around the property.
And um, and actually I I met afew people uh who live and work
in the uh around the Red Center,and they were saying, Oh yeah,
we're gonna go stay there nextweek.
Really super romantic, just umcompletely solitary and
isolated.
So they're very rustic andthey're very gorgeous, hidden in
(14:59):
that landscape.
But then you go up to the mainhomestead, um, which is where
you go for your meals, where youcan hit the Wi-Fi, you can have
a swim in this gorgeous pool,which I did, you know, I was
trying to do a swim every daywhile I was there.
Um, but then so that wasOrimina.
I mean, there is a range ofaccommodation at Discovery
Resorts at King's Canyon.
That's also it's kind of like aum similar to uh Ezrock Resort.
(15:23):
You've got everything fromcamping to motel rooms um and up
to the higher-end accommodation.
And also at Kings Creek Station,where we were staying, um, which
has got the same thing (15:33):
camping, motel stays, luxury gamp lamping
with private pools and sparklingwine that you, you know, and
panapes and all of that sort ofthing.
So I think that's I think it'sabsolutely not necessary that
you have to do the full camp.
I mean, we saw so many families,you know, with their with the
vans, obviously doing either a along a driving tour, because we
(15:55):
were there in the first week ofVictoria's School holidays.
So there were people takingtheir kids around into the road
center, or you can see doing thelarger lap around.
And they were totally kitted outin these four-wheel drive
campers and um not so muchmotorhomes around here, but uh
but yeah, so you don't have todo the cool camp.
You you really can um do it instyle or do it on a budget as
(16:19):
well.
SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
So, how did the kids hop cope with the heat in the
flies?
And because typically, like whenwe went up, we went up with
kids, we were just uh on our ownand we were doing a bit of
hiking, but my God, those flies,I mean, you know, you don't want
to be, you can't even, you can'teven, you can't whip out some
food and just expect that a flywon't join you when you um the
piece of food when you go todevour it.
(16:42):
So um how did they go?
SPEAKER_05 (16:45):
Yeah, you know, that's what they'd say, you
know, the Aussie wave.
SPEAKER_04 (16:48):
It's like just and I'm and you can't see it because
this is a podcast, but I amwaving my hand across my face
for the flies.
Um I saw a I saw a guy with afly net, you know, thrown over
his hat, and then I saw anotherone, and then I saw another one,
and then I thought, oh my gosh,whoever's making these fly nets
that you just pop out of the topof your head is making an
absolute fortune becauseeverybody has them on.
(17:09):
I I didn't because um I'm vainand also also I was like, oh
seriously, just spritz on, youknow, the odo, oh do, oh guard,
and you'll be fine.
SPEAKER_00 (17:19):
Um and and I did we had a until the flies, until the
flies literally get up your noselike they did for me.
And so I was I wore one of thosefly nets because I was like,
there ain't no flies going upinto my cruises.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
Oh flies on Kirstie.
SPEAKER_04 (17:34):
Um so we so look, we were there uh only a couple of
weeks ago.
So in late September, what wasreally interesting was the week
before it had been really hot,so it was hitting up to 35.
Our week, we were freezing onenight.
So it was it was sitting aroundthe 25s, and then the week after
it was going back up to the 36s.
So I think the fly thing, youknow, generally when there's
(17:56):
water out, then you're gonna seean influx of flies.
And and yeah, there were acouple of flies there, but
that's all part of theexperience, right?
You know, they're all creaturesof this earth.
So the yeah, they I mean thekids all dealt with it, they had
to deal with it.
Um, and they're little toughiesas well.
So we um, you know, like I thinkeverybody really focuses on
Uluru and to a lesser extentKatajuda, but there's so many
(18:18):
more adventures along the way,and we just hauled them into all
of them.
You know, there's walks, there'sart experiences, there's
cultural chats.
Um, in the Chortham WestMacDonald Rangers.
This is a long, I I just foundthem, I hadn't spent a lot of
time there before, and I foundthem absolutely fascinating and
incredibly beautiful.
If you had ever seen AlbertNamajura's paintings, um who was
(18:40):
the one of those um greatartists, you know, one of the
best known indigenous artistswho was painting in a Western
style, he absolutely capturedthe colours, uh the just those
dreamy, soft uh pinks and bluesof the of the West Max.
And it's a long low mountainrange that's broken into
segments.
So if you think of like acaterpillar that's got sort of
(19:01):
um you know as a land formation.
And and and and the caterpillaractually features in the
creation stories amongst thepeople here.
So you'll find the mountainranges broken into these
water-filled gorges.
Um, probably the most famous oneis Simpson Gorge, just outside
Alice, um, which is absolutelyspectacular and it set the tone
for those to come.
So, in in those, you can swim inmost of the waters.
(19:23):
Some of them are designated umcultural sites that you can't
swim in.
But I was on a swim mission, soI jumped in at Ellery Big Creek
Big Hole.
I jumped in at Ormiston Gorge,where we can't.
You can swim at Glen Helen andRed Bank Gorge.
So you can do a swim drive, swimdrive back around um around the
uh, particularly through theWest Mox.
And the water is, you know, it'sclear, it's it's clean, it's you
(19:47):
know, some of it's coming upfrom aquifers, and when you come
out of it, you just feelcompletely invigorated.
There was a there was a momentwhere we ran into an LGPTI tour
company and they did have um uhgrown men in budgie smugglers
jumping on um pink uniforms.
SPEAKER_05 (20:04):
Which is like, okay.
And some guy who is doing aPriscilla version, a Priscilla
version of the Red Center Way.
SPEAKER_04 (20:10):
Um, because Gisella Queen of the Desert was filmed
uh actually on King's parts ofit were filmed on King's Canyon,
on a lot of it through othersprings as well.
So it was a bit of a shock to godown for a swim in almost in
expecting this spiritualexperience.
And there was a guy in full dragstanding there with a pink
unicorn with his arms out.
SPEAKER_05 (20:28):
I was like, okay, everybody has a completely
different take on this one.
That's yours.
SPEAKER_00 (20:35):
I'd love to see the socials on that one.
Um, so yeah, so moving on.
What so where did you go next?
SPEAKER_04 (20:42):
Um, from the Westmax.
Um, this is a really interestingpart because the road is only
sealed, partly sealed, on thedrive to King's Canyon.
So the unsealed part is called aMarini Loop.
It's 160 kilometres.
It's a full three-hour drivewith stops to photograph wild
donkeys and brumbies on theroad.
This is um, this is Aboriginalland, and you do need a permit
(21:03):
to drive it.
I mean, the permit is fivebucks.
You get it from the touristcenter in Alice Springs.
So it's not like as soon as youstart saying road permits,
people go, oh my god, that's toodifficult.
And it's got admin.
And you know, I hate admin, youhate admin, the world hates
admin.
It was very easy, admin.
And that money goes back to thecommunities.
Basically, you know, you'rehaving permission to cross to
(21:24):
cross their lands.
Um, but it was a great drive,you know.
I'm in there in my four-wheeldrive warrior, and um, it had
rained the week before.
The council had graded it, rungraders over it, and and locals
um were telling me at Orvestonthey just made it 10 times
worse.
So it was like if you had anyloose teeth, it would have been
(21:44):
gone by the end of the threehours.
It was good.
Rugged.
SPEAKER_05 (21:48):
Can I say for the ladies out there, sports bro
territory, it was just so rough.
SPEAKER_00 (21:53):
But they call it road road message.
SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Oh my gosh, maybe that's all I've got to sell back
at the moment because I was justdumping my way over these.
Yeah, that could be the one.
SPEAKER_04 (22:02):
Um, there's some fabulous lookouts along the way
on particularly, I mean, on youcan't stop on the Marini drive,
on the Marini loop.
Um, just you know, you can stopfor a quick refreshment and
stuff, but you can't camp alongthere.
But on the sealed roads of theWestmax, there are plenty of
camping spots and panoramaswhere you can also camp the
night.
Um and you just drive up and youjust have that quiet time and
(22:23):
you you might just see a floodof uh of budrigars swooping
past, breaching, or zebrafinches, or you might find um,
you know, you might findlizards, and we had our eyes out
for um for little wallabies, umuh rock wallabies and you know,
when you when you I think thisis the thing when you're when
(22:44):
you're in uh country, you haveto uh take that time to just be
quiet and to listen to thecountry.
And that's when you starthearing and seeing the things
that otherwise you're justdriving past at a rate of knots.
So um, you know, there's plentyof spots to stop.
If you are not self-sufficient,um, I mean you've always got to
have your own drinking water andplenty of petrol.
(23:04):
But there's bathrooms, there'stoilets and picnic tables with
those fabulous views until youget to King's Canyon.
And the hero activity here,which I think you've done, is
the rim walk.
Um, and also an uh on the top ofKing's Canyon and also the much
shorter two-kilometer riverwalk, which was really lovely,
especially for birdwatchers.
So I've done the rim walk acouple of times.
(23:27):
It is definitely best as earlyas you can go in the morning
before the temperatures start torise.
And um, the week after we werethere, so the first week of
October, was when thetemperatures are starting to hit
36, and they actually closeaccess to the walk.
The rangers close access to thewalk by 11 a.m.
So you can't start the walkafter that.
And they say it's three to fourhours, but I mean, if you're a
(23:49):
if you're a fast walker and evenallowing time for stops and
photos and stuff, it yeah, Ifour hours is going to be a
stretch.
The first time I did it, uh butbut the thing is it, you know,
it's um on those hot days withthese fabulous rock formations
such as the Lost City and theCliff Walls, they just become
these massive heat radiators andit's very exposed.
And I have to say, the firsttime I did it, um, and I was
(24:11):
staying at the King's CanyonResort, the Discovery Parks
Resort, a bloke on on the walkactually did have a heart attack
because he'd overestimated hisscore.
I know, he'd overestimated hisabilities.
People were saying, Oh, it'seasy, you can do it, and stuff
like that.
He wasn't prepared, um, and hewasn't well enough to do it.
And yeah, and but this time umthere were I saw rangers, and I
(24:34):
had a chat to a ranger as wellwhile I was there, and there
were ranger stations all the waythrough with defibrillators and
um and emergency water in thosespots because and I and I think
this is important because theRed Center is becoming more
accessible um and people arechoosing to do it, but also
underestimating the land.
(24:55):
And I think that is a reallyimportant lesson about it, is
that you just Yeah, of course.
You don't you don'tunderestimate the environment.
SPEAKER_00 (25:03):
Yeah, that's right.
So um what would your advice beto people about where to eat and
what to do?
I mean, obviously you'reself-catering a lot, but what
what um what it what's youradvice about some cool places to
stop in to eat along the way?
SPEAKER_04 (25:17):
Well, I've got to say we did self-cater a lot
because we had um two teenageboys that were hoovering for
Australia.
Holy cracky! I mean, I have a Ihave a little girl, you know,
and she just kind of picksaround the edges, but the boys
were just like I I was actuallyin a state of shock.
So Kirsty, hats off to you.
No wonder you have got um goldor silver status through
(25:37):
shopping at Kohl's because oh mygod.
SPEAKER_05 (25:43):
So yeah, we always had food in the back.
Um food set is almost a parodyhere.
Um, you know, we I mean we atecamel burgers at the Discovery
Resort at King's Canyon.
Well, it's like giant bigthings.
SPEAKER_04 (25:56):
And I was, I thought, yeah, like enormous big
because there's wild camelseverywhere.
You know, camels, as everybodyknows, the GAN is named after
the allegedly Afghan umcameliers who, you know, when
they were building the the trainthrough central Australia, um, I
think most of them were forBelichestan anyway, but um,
yeah, so giant camel burgers andthen there's bushtucker
(26:18):
experiences.
So you kind of go in and eat thewitchety grubs at Carraq, which
is a um which is a bush tuckerexperience run by um local
people in near Kings Creekstation.
We did a bushtucker high tea atEzrack Resort.
Had to scrub up a little bit forthat one, um, because yeah,
we're looking pretty skanky atthat point.
So I just wanted to dust off abit and then go into Ezrack
(26:41):
Resort in the into the one ofthe fanciest of the um hotels
there.
And that's where you triedscones with Rosella Jam and all
sorts of bush ingredients andthe little pet eat bores.
And interestingly, they had avegan version for my travel
companion and photographer J,which was actually really
impressive.
And I thought, um I actuallythought that vegetarians,
(27:02):
celiacs, vegans, pretty mucheverybody was catered for at the
the bigger stations, um, at atthe at most of the food stocks,
you could get something thatthat um that would suit most
people.
I um I did notice actually,there wasn't there was a point
driving back up to Alice Springswhere the roadhouses there had
(27:24):
big signs and clearly had quitea few um southerners there with
barista coffee available.
SPEAKER_05 (27:30):
And I was like, Yes, I am in there.
I am driving in and I am havinga big fat flat white thank you
for coming.
SPEAKER_00 (27:39):
So um I'm sure I don't I don't know how my um and
shy latte would go, but um butanyway.
Actually, you would besurprised.
Um powder may powder, maybe notthe tea leaf.
SPEAKER_04 (27:53):
Yeah, possibly.
I don't know, because I'm not achai c uh childate connoisseur
like you, but I think you'd bepleasantly surprised at the
accessibility of of the foodaround there.
But you've always got to havethat bag in the back because you
never know what's gonna happen,right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:06):
So true.
And funny when you said aboutcleaning up and cleaning
yourselves up from the red dirt,it made me think about I
remember when I was in Broom andthey were saying, you know, that
it all it always stays with you,quite literally, because it's in
your clothing and your likesometimes uh like my shoes, I
think were never the same afterum, yeah, after that we did.
(28:27):
So what do you think this umtype of holiday, who's it sort
of best suited to?
And do you do you think it was agood place to have to take
teens?
SPEAKER_04 (28:37):
Um, I think that the Red Centre has something for
everyone.
I mean, you can camp and hikelike we did.
You can also do it in luxurywith those helicopter rides over
Uluru and Kings Canyon and um,you know, stays at the longitude
or those luxury lamping tents atKing's Creek station.
Um so and I think that mmobility-wise, it actually
caters for a lot of people aswell.
(29:00):
You know, if you are um notentirely mobile, the first time
I went to King's Creeks, uh toKings Canyon, I was with my mum,
who was really ill at the time.
And we drove there from Uluru,and um and she was so looked
after, you know, um they hadwheelchairs around if she was
feeling unwell.
I did the ream hike, she did thehelicopter.
(29:20):
So I think for all ages andstages, uh, you know, it's
especially if you're active.
I mean, you know, riding aroundUluru on bikes and stuff like
that was brilliant for the kids.
You can segue around them.
But then um, yeah, I I thinkwhatever you do, I think what
everybody needs to do, no matteryour time frame or your price
point, you do, as I saidearlier, you need you need to
(29:42):
slow down and experience this,the culture there, because it's
something that nowhere else inthe world can replicate.
And and you can do that easilywith a visit to the gallery of
central Australia at EzrockResort, or you can visit an
artist community near AliceSprings.
Um, we took a guided walk.
At Stanley Chasm in the Westmax.
(30:03):
Or, you know, you can do thosewalks around Uluru, stopping to
read the information and just tolisten and admire.
I mean, we took an amazingpre-dawn sunrise journey, which
is a two-hour storytellingexperience and art and light
installation just outside AirsRock Resort.
And while you're there, you haveyour breakfast and you are
watching as the sun is rising,like as as first light appears
(30:26):
over Uluru, um, this thesevoices of these artists are
telling the story uh about theland and about why they uh
welcome people to the country.
And you're hearing them speakingas you watch the sun rise over
Uluru.
And it's just magical because uhcoming back to the start, it
(30:48):
puts that that handback, thatUlaru handback into context
because I mean our country istied to one of the world's
oldest living cultures, andIndigenous Australians really
should not have to beg uh forrespect or appreciation for
their existence.
And if you can take that respectand appreciation away with you
from Central Australia, then youhave more than just a holiday,
but a holiday with with genuinemeaning.
SPEAKER_00 (31:10):
Yeah, amazing.
And we'll put a link in the shownotes too of the places that
Belle's talking about so youknow how to book them and how to
do them.
And if you want to see moreabout Belle's um experiences in
Central Australia, you can alsojump onto her socials, Globa
underscore salsa on Instagram orher website, globalselsa.com.
SPEAKER_03 (31:31):
You're listening to the World Awaits.
Subscribe through our website attheworldawaits.au.
SPEAKER_04 (31:39):
Our tip this week is about new rules about flying
with Virgin Australia.
SPEAKER_00 (31:44):
Yeah, so this is interesting because from
February you can now take eightkilograms on board.
And um, I have to say, when Iheard this, I did wonder if
they're going to police thisbecause Jet Star are um brutal
as far as um, you know, makingyou weigh usually.
You could I haven't flown jetstar for a while because I go I
go Virgin now because I want thepoints.
(32:04):
But um Jet Star were always andalso Jet Star let me down too
many times, but they they werebrutal with weighing your your
luggage.
So I just wonder um how they'regonna manage this because even
flying recently when I went to Iflew to Tahiti, oh my god, the
but the luggage that people aretaking, um, you know, giant
suitcases and trying to shovethem in overhead lockers, but
(32:25):
anyway.
SPEAKER_04 (32:26):
Yeah, I know.
I mean, I think that's the primesource of um flight rage in the
US is is is um the competitionfor locker space.
Um, but so eight kilos on board,and it's even more if you're
traveling in Economy X orbusiness, because they, along
with other loyalty programmembers, can carry two bags up
to 14 kilos plus one small item.
And I always debate how small isthat small item.
SPEAKER_00 (32:49):
Yes, exactly.
Um and also I do love this one.
So eligible economy flyers canalso now, this will be me, can
also now submit a bid on Virginon the Virgin Australia app to
reserve an empty seat besideyou.
So my god, I love this.
So it's on select flights, andum the bids start from only 30
bucks.
I'm doing this one.
(33:09):
It's called Neighborhood,Neighbor Free Seating Service,
and it's available now on, yeah,just like I said, some Select
Virgin Umestic and Short HallInternational, and they're gonna
have a wider rollout after thetrial period.
SPEAKER_04 (33:23):
Do you reckon that they'll ever have any spare
seats on Sydney Melbourne?
I mean, it is one of the world'stop three busiest flat boots in
the world.
It's just insane.
SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
It'll cost you.
It'll cost a certain youcertainly won't get it for 30
bucks.
SPEAKER_04 (33:36):
That's I know when you were saying I was like 30
bucks.
I mean, the last time I gotoffered an upgrade for a
domestic, they said, begin yourbid at$330 and you'll have a
good chance of getting thatupgrade.
I was like, there you go.
I've been so lucky, I've been solucky.
SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
I've had so many upgrades around the 100.
But yeah, I I hear you.
I mean, I yeah, I doubt verymuch you'll be getting it for 30
bucks.
SPEAKER_04 (33:58):
Oh, you're a mongrel, you have been so lucky.
So um, look, I'm I'm actuallymore excited.
I am more excited about theother recent development with um
Virgin Australia, which is theynow let you fly with a small dog
or a cat.
Bookings are now open forflights between Melbourne and
the Sunshine Coast and Melbourneand the Gold Coast.
Obviously, Melbourne love theirdogs.
(34:20):
Um, so you can travel with thosepets on this trail now until the
30th of January in 2026.
Um and Tiny Little Dog isincremental because um my friend
Julietta Jameson, uh, who lightsalso for the Sydney Morning
Herald, actually did the flightsum there.
And she's in the same boat as mebecause um the flights are
(34:43):
great, but your your pay has tobe under eight kilos.
But that also includes thecarrier, which might be a kilo
or two.
So really, you're looking at asix and a half to seven kilo
dog.
I mean, I don't want to bedoggus or anything like that,
but thick skilled dog.
I mean, my mine are 26 and 33 ona good day because he's he ate
(35:06):
all the pies.
SPEAKER_00 (35:07):
So my dogs are absolutely Well, I mean, you
think your dog ate all the pies,but um Kyla is actually 42
kilos, so she trumps your umfluff fluffy things that um your
dogs are a fur.
So that's probably where half oftheir weight goes.
Kyla's got no excuse, she's justpure fat.
Um, so I do I look, I do hopeit's extended one day to bigger
(35:29):
dogs, but um, do I want to be onthat flight with a heap of
howling dogs and whining cats?
No.
I mean, you know, screamingbabies is is bad enough, but uh
to have uh an entire flight fullof whining animals, I I really,
I really don't know.
But um, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (35:42):
Anyway, we will put a shark did have a screaming
baby behind me on my flight downto Tassie the other the other
day, and there was no coaxingthat kid into happiness.
But I do think that a um uh whatdo you smack okay?
Count them down.
You just like force feed themsmackos for the entire flight.
(36:03):
Hilarious.
I wonder they should be includedin the fair, right?
Imagine that if they includedfree smackos for every dog.
My dogs would be on thereregardless.
SPEAKER_00 (36:12):
Yeah, true.
But my with Kylo, you'dliterally be having to feed her
the entire packet of smackos,and she'd be vomiting in the
plane before you landed.
And that would be moreunpleasant than the whining and
the howling.
And we will put a link to allthe details about taking your
pets on board in the show notes.
SPEAKER_04 (36:39):
I am so excited to tell you about next week's
interview.
My guest is iconic Australianmusician David Bridey, who's a
founding member of world musicband Not Drowning Waving.
David has an unbreakable linkwith Papua New Guinea, and we
are going to talk abouttraveling in PG, which this year
celebrates its 50th anniversaryof independence from Australia.
SPEAKER_00 (37:00):
And we'd love it if you could follow us on socials.
You'll find us at the WorldAwaits Podcast on Instagram,
Facebook, and LinkedIn, and feelfree to drop us a line at hello
at the worldawaits.au.
Or if you're enjoying thisepisode, please give us a rating
and review.
SPEAKER_03 (37:14):
That's a wrap for the World Awaits this week.
Click to subscribe anywhere youlisten to your favourite pods.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
Welcome to the World Awaits.
Travel tales to inspire yourwonderlust.
Welcome back to the WorldAwaits.
How are you all?
How's your week been, Kirsty?
SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
I have been settling back into the grind after going
to Tahiti and was fortunate togo to an industry event in this
last week organized by you,Belle.
Yay! At Melbourne Winery onFlinders Lane.
Oh my god, it was such a coolvenue.
So I had no idea this place wasthere.
So it's actually only opened inApril, and it's Melbourne's
(00:34):
first urban winery, and it's ina building that was built in the
late 1800s, which was recentlyan office building, and it took
them a year to um rebuild it,make it into this winery.
And um funnily enough, they weresaying that there was once an AA
upstairs.
Like it used to be a place wherethat people met Alcoholics
Anonymous upstairs, um, which iskind of funny, but kind of I did
(00:56):
not.
He did say he was going to do anevent with non-alcoholic wine
for people um, you know, to kindof as a homage to that.
But um, yeah, so basically theyhave their own wine label, which
is wine made mostly from theballerine from Scotchman's Hill,
which anyone that knows theirwines would know is pretty
special.
And you can go along and do,they have happy hour for all the
(01:16):
locals, local office workers,and you can also go along and do
this amazing wine tasting.
And it's such a pretty venue.
They just what they've done, theway they've designed it, and
it's massive.
So you walk in and there's like72 wine barrels kind of just
placed randomly around theplace, and there's a beautiful
cocktail bar, and then there'sall the seating, and there's all
these separate kinds of seatingareas.
(01:37):
So, and you can and you canorder food there.
They have really good food.
They had really good pizzas andbeautiful canopies.
Um, so yeah, it was a prettyspecial place.
So if you're in the city andyou're near Flinders, because
it's right near the trainstation, so you know, you can
just call in there, have a fewdrinks, and then jump on the
train on your way home.
How's your how's your week been,Belle?
SPEAKER_04 (01:56):
Oh, well, I'm a bit uh bummed out about missing that
one, to be honest with you.
So I've had a I've had a veryquiet week following my
escapades in the CentralHighlands and Tassie last week.
But I did go to EmiratesRoadshow as they launched their
Euro Summer campaign.
Um, and their hot picks forEurope, I'm pleased to see we
are totally on trend, Kirsty.
(02:17):
Their hot picks are Malta,Norway, and Portugal, just keeps
uh keeps on keeping on with thatone.
Um, staying on airlines, I notewith interest this week was
always also the launch of VirginAustralia's new pet seats, which
we'll tell you more about afterour interview.
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
Yes.
So before we get into all ofthat, we're going to chat about
the newest rating for the hotelfor hotels around the world,
which is called Michelin Keys.
So everyone's heard of Michelin,the Michelin guide, and you
know, knows about the Michelinrestaurant, um, scarred
restaurants.
Um, but they've now extended itto keys.
So it's basically an accoladefrom properties get one to three
(02:58):
keys, and three's the highestyou can get.
Um, and it identifies the besthotels in the world.
So they they use a criteria, andthe five criteria to um for the
mission to get a Michelin key isexcellence in architecture and
interior design, quality andconsistency of service, overall
personality and character, valuefor the price, and a significant
contribution to theneighborhood.
SPEAKER_04 (03:20):
Yeah, so there's um nearly two and a half thousand
properties received a key aroundthe world, but only 133, uh
sorry, 143 of those got thethree keys, which is like the
it's like the gold star forhotels.
Um so expected, as expected,there were such icons as the
Savoy in London, La Malmonia inMarrakesh, which I had the great
(03:43):
joy to stay at years ago, um,the Maldives iconic Cheval
Blanc, and Monaco's Hotel deParis, Monte Carlo, which was of
course a favourite hang ofPrincess Grace, aka Grace Kelly
of Monaco, and in New York, uhCasa Cipriani, which sounds like
a mob hangout, but it actuallyset in a 1906 ferry terminal in
(04:03):
Lower Manhattan.
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
Yeah, and back at home here, we had so Australia
had 35 properties that made thelist, but only one property
actually got the covetedthree-key ranking, and that was
adults only Lizard Island onGreat Barrier Reef in
Queensland.
SPEAKER_04 (04:19):
Have you stayed there?
Because I mean, I was scheduledto stay, I was doing a cover
story for the Sydney MorningHerald on New Island
developments in Queensland, butit was adults only, and I was
traveling with my little babywho was just nine months old at
the time.
She was jumping.
Well, she wasn't jumping, shewas being lifted in and out of
helicopters, but but that ruledme out.
So I haven't stayed, have you?
SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
A nine-month-old, you should have been able to
stay at adults only with anine-month-old.
Um, I also haven't stayed, but Ihave stayed at a few of the
others on the list.
So there were nine in Australiathat got the two keys, and one
of those was longitude one threeone.
Oh my god, this place is beyondremarkable.
So I was actually there whenthey shut that were shutting the
borders for the pandemic.
(05:00):
I was literally there that weekthat we came home from there,
they shut all the borders.
Um, and it's a luxury wildernesscamp with 16 tented pavilions,
and the pavilions are all namedafter Outback explorers, and
they're all sort of dotted.
They call them pavilions, butthey're just like these gorgeous
luxury suites.
They're all dotted among the redrust sort of dunes of the desert
(05:20):
with views across to Uluru.
So in our one, we could just liein bed and look out to Uluru.
It was just amazing.
And the resort's all-inclusiveand the dining, like the food
there, was honestly some of thebest I've ever had, and with a
daily changing menu.
And others on that two key listwere Southern Ocean Lodge on
Kangaroo Island, which wasrecently rebuilt after fire, and
(05:44):
also Sapphire Fashioner and Tazand Jack-Ope Hotel on the
Mornington Peninsula.
And another one I stayed at,which was one key, was the One
Hotel in Melbourne, which is areally new hotel.
And they, it's a sustainable-ledbrand, uh um One Hotels.
And they, oh my God, they reallydo walk the talk.
(06:05):
So they incorporated a 1942industrial Malcolm Moore Crane
into the hotel design, restoredit and repositioned it so it was
sort of like a sculpturaltribute to the shipping, the
area's shipping.
And inside that hotel are 7,000plants and four and a half,
4,500 square metres of reclaimedtimber.
(06:26):
And you see it everywhere whenyou stay in the hotel, you you
see it.
So the reception desk alone ismade up with repurposed elm
trees from Melbourne's MetroTunnel works.
And there's an artwork above thedesk that's crafted from 60
kilograms of textiles that wereotherwise destined for landfall.
I love that so much.
(06:46):
And in the lounge, thedecommissioned railway bridges
were used for the staircase.
And even the floor is is umoffcuts of timber that were hand
cut into little tiles.
Like so that looks like littletiles, a beautiful flooring, but
it's actually off-cuts of oldtimber.
SPEAKER_04 (07:01):
And that's what I guess they're looking for.
They're looking for that thatunique, that sense of place.
I mean, I I loved seeing DriftHouse in Port Ferry on the
Victorian South Coast on thatlist.
Um, and that's a rare thing,another rare thing in Australia,
which is a family-owned and runboutique hotel right at the top
of its game, and it reallyexemplifies that Michelin Key.
Um, I've actually stayed there afew times, and it's each time
(07:23):
it's been spectacular.
But if you're in Sydney, the QT,the Ace, and the new Eve Hotel,
which opened last year inRedfern, made the list, um,
along with the gorgeous capellain the old Department of
Education Building in the city.
And the Langham.
I I've got to say, Kirsty, I wasactually surprised to see Qualia
on Hamilton Island at only onekey.
I thought it would have been atwo key, who knows?
(07:44):
Um, because it is it is just anastonishing piece of um hotel
property.
And a special mention to OsborneHouse in Bandanoon in the New
South Wales Southern Highlands.
Um, I'm it is on the list, andI'm mentioning it because it's
been on my must-visit list for athousand years.
It is just the most.
If you want interior design, oh,it makes my heart sink.
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
I reckon we just need to tickle these 35 off, um,
you know, the ones that wehaven't done.
Um, and we will put a full listof all the hotels in the show
notes, um, where you can alsosearch this for affordable
Michelin Key properties, becauseas they say, it's not just about
the price per night, but aboutoffering a stay with hospitality
and experience that encapsulatea sense of place.
(08:39):
This week I'm Chattana Bell.
She takes us on a drivingholiday through the Red Centre,
so buckle up, friends.
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Oh, absolutely.
It is the iconic Australiandestination.
SPEAKER_04 (08:50):
And um, this is a really timely discussion because
this year marks the 40thanniversary since the Uluru
Handback, which was when thefederal government handed the
title deeds for Uluru back tothe Indigenous people of
Australia.
So they actually own the land.
If you can remember back thattime, it's a really significant,
it was a really significantmoment for Indigenous Australia.
Um, and it's such a symbol ofCentral Australia.
(09:13):
And, you know, of course, it'sone of our most recognizable
landmarks.
SPEAKER_00 (09:16):
Yeah, and when you're there, you certainly feel
it feels pretty special.
Um, so it was good timing to goalong.
So tell us about uh how you howyou got there, Belle.
SPEAKER_04 (09:27):
Well, of course, the easiest way to visit the Red
Centre is to fly into Airs RockAirport, stay at the resort,
jump on some of the activitiesand see Ularu.
It is that easy.
You can tick that box in a longweekend.
But I think that there's um moreto it than just than just Ularu
Katajuda.
So we spent eight days drivingthe Red Center Way.
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
Amazing.
Um, yeah, no, it definitelydeserves more time.
Um so tell for anyone thatdoesn't know what the Red Center
Way is, how long is it and howdo you do it?
SPEAKER_04 (09:59):
Um well, it's a loop drive.
The Red Center Way is a loopdrive between Alice Springs, the
West McDonnell Ranges, KingsCanyon, Uluru, and then you go
back up to Alice Springs.
In total, it's about 1,100kilometres.
Um, there is one section fromthe West Max to Kings Canyon
that is currently unsealed andit's advised as four-wheel drive
only.
So you could start in and inlocation, but usually it's Alice
(10:20):
Springs because that's wheremost of the facilities are,
including car hire andsupermarkets.
You can hire some cars at Uluru,but um in my experience, it's
been really tricky and often youwon't find those four-wheel
drives or a choice.
So we flew in and out of AliceSprings for this journey, and
each day and a bite-sized drive,sometimes just an hour or two.
(10:41):
The longest was the drive backfrom Uluru to Alice Springs,
which took about five hours forthis um, you know, for this
great loop through the RedCenter.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
So tell us uh what did you do it and and where did
you stay?
SPEAKER_04 (10:56):
Well, uh there were five of us.
So we actually, it sounds a bitodd, we actually had two cars.
So we had a brand new four-wheeldrive Ford Warrior, which had
two rooftop tents on top of it,and a Toyota Lancruiser Prado,
which is a standard car out herefor much of the Northern
Territory's government fleet,just because it is really such a
sturdy car.
In the past, I've done sectionsof this drive in a regular
(11:17):
two-wheel drive car.
And as a bloke said to me in theWestmax, most of the residents
out here, and by that he meansum people living in the villages
and communities around thisarea, are banging along in old
Commodores.
So you don't have to be kittedout of the big macho$10,000
four-wheel drive kit.
But of course, you know, afour-wheel drive doesn't
actually hurt.
So we had we had the um twotents on top and um and another
(11:42):
tent below.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
So what was it like?
So were you staying in there?
SPEAKER_04 (11:48):
Yeah, yeah, we were camping.
We had those rooftop tents,which are amazingly easy.
After the first time to pop itup, here's a hot tip.
Don't try to put them up thefirst time in the dark.
Um, very boring.
And and we had another singletent on the side just to
accommodate all of us.
There was um me, my friend Jude,her, two teenage boys, and I had
my teenage daughter as well.
(12:09):
So the first night was actuallyreally interesting.
We stayed at a property calledOrimina Station, which is about
40 minutes southeast of AliceSprings.
Um, and then we stayed in theOrmiston Gorge in the Westmax.
We stayed at King's CreekStation, which is about 30
minutes from King's Canyon.
And then down in Uluru, um,Ezrock Resort is the main place
you can stay.
(12:30):
And it has accommodation therefrom the highest longitude,
which we were talking aboutearlier as Michelin Key
property, down to thecampground, the slightly more
humble campground where westayed.
Although it did have a lot ofgreat facilities, you know,
laundries and hot showers and umpicnic areas and um and a
swimming pool as well.
So, you know, we weren't totallyroughing it, I've got to say.
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
That was gonna be my next question.
What were the campgrounds like?
Um, and obviously because a lotof people road trip there,
right?
So you're gonna have goodcampgrounds.
That's um so what do you do ifwhat about if you don't have
sort of where where would youstay if you didn't have uh
somewhere to with camping gear?
SPEAKER_04 (13:10):
Well, yeah, if you don't have all the gear, I mean,
firstly, we didn't have to lugall of our gear up from
Melbourne.
It came with a van hire.
So the sleeping bags, thecooking equipment, the tents,
everything was already in there.
Um, we did pack very lightlythough, too, because those, a
lot of those, um, like you can'tjust fill up with giant bags um
of your own gear.
So you've you've got to keep itlight because you've got your
(13:31):
food in there and you've gotwater and things like that.
But look, even if you weren't acamper, that is totally not
going to stop you.
As I said at the top, you know,you can fly in and stay at one
of the best hotels in thecountry if you're going to.
Um, Alice obviously has a lot ofaccommodation.
And then Uramina Station, whichI mentioned, um, which is this
old cadle station, it's so likeit's such a an amazing place.
(13:53):
You know, the the landscape isincredible because you've got
this red desert, you've gotthese escarpments everywhere.
Um, that the woman who boughtUramina actually um has been
using it as um for movie forfilming movies on site.
So it was really strange.
We drove in and and youliterally drive into like an old
town main street on thisstation, which has been built.
(14:16):
So they're just facades builtfor a movie site, so for a movie
setting.
So you've got the old palm.
SPEAKER_05 (14:22):
Yeah, it's got the palm with the piano in it, which
is absolutely kills what areloved there, a bit the teens out
there.
SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
Yeah, I was like, get on the lockup, guys, which
is the police station.
It was the road.
Um so you could camp aroundthose sort of areas, which was
which was great.
SPEAKER_04 (14:37):
And then um, but it also has these four beautiful
little stone cottages that arebuilt around the property.
And um, and actually I I met afew people uh who live and work
in the uh around the Red Center,and they were saying, Oh yeah,
we're gonna go stay there nextweek.
Really super romantic, just umcompletely solitary and
isolated.
So they're very rustic andthey're very gorgeous, hidden in
(14:59):
that landscape.
But then you go up to the mainhomestead, um, which is where
you go for your meals, where youcan hit the Wi-Fi, you can have
a swim in this gorgeous pool,which I did, you know, I was
trying to do a swim every daywhile I was there.
Um, but then so that wasOrimina.
I mean, there is a range ofaccommodation at Discovery
Resorts at King's Canyon.
That's also it's kind of like aum similar to uh Ezrock Resort.
(15:23):
You've got everything fromcamping to motel rooms um and up
to the higher-end accommodation.
And also at Kings Creek Station,where we were staying, um, which
has got the same thing (15:33):
camping, motel stays, luxury gamp lamping
with private pools and sparklingwine that you, you know, and
panapes and all of that sort ofthing.
So I think that's I think it'sabsolutely not necessary that
you have to do the full camp.
I mean, we saw so many families,you know, with their with the
vans, obviously doing either a along a driving tour, because we
(15:55):
were there in the first week ofVictoria's School holidays.
So there were people takingtheir kids around into the road
center, or you can see doing thelarger lap around.
And they were totally kitted outin these four-wheel drive
campers and um not so muchmotorhomes around here, but uh
but yeah, so you don't have todo the cool camp.
You you really can um do it instyle or do it on a budget as
(16:19):
well.
SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
So, how did the kids hop cope with the heat in the
flies?
And because typically, like whenwe went up, we went up with
kids, we were just uh on our ownand we were doing a bit of
hiking, but my God, those flies,I mean, you know, you don't want
to be, you can't even, you can'teven, you can't whip out some
food and just expect that a flywon't join you when you um the
piece of food when you go todevour it.
(16:42):
So um how did they go?
SPEAKER_05 (16:45):
Yeah, you know, that's what they'd say, you
know, the Aussie wave.
SPEAKER_04 (16:48):
It's like just and I'm and you can't see it because
this is a podcast, but I amwaving my hand across my face
for the flies.
Um I saw a I saw a guy with afly net, you know, thrown over
his hat, and then I saw anotherone, and then I saw another one,
and then I thought, oh my gosh,whoever's making these fly nets
that you just pop out of the topof your head is making an
absolute fortune becauseeverybody has them on.
(17:09):
I I didn't because um I'm vainand also also I was like, oh
seriously, just spritz on, youknow, the odo, oh do, oh guard,
and you'll be fine.
SPEAKER_00 (17:19):
Um and and I did we had a until the flies, until the
flies literally get up your noselike they did for me.
And so I was I wore one of thosefly nets because I was like,
there ain't no flies going upinto my cruises.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
Oh flies on Kirstie.
SPEAKER_04 (17:34):
Um so we so look, we were there uh only a couple of
weeks ago.
So in late September, what wasreally interesting was the week
before it had been really hot,so it was hitting up to 35.
Our week, we were freezing onenight.
So it was it was sitting aroundthe 25s, and then the week after
it was going back up to the 36s.
So I think the fly thing, youknow, generally when there's
(17:56):
water out, then you're gonna seean influx of flies.
And and yeah, there were acouple of flies there, but
that's all part of theexperience, right?
You know, they're all creaturesof this earth.
So the yeah, they I mean thekids all dealt with it, they had
to deal with it.
Um, and they're little toughiesas well.
So we um, you know, like I thinkeverybody really focuses on
Uluru and to a lesser extentKatajuda, but there's so many
(18:18):
more adventures along the way,and we just hauled them into all
of them.
You know, there's walks, there'sart experiences, there's
cultural chats.
Um, in the Chortham WestMacDonald Rangers.
This is a long, I I just foundthem, I hadn't spent a lot of
time there before, and I foundthem absolutely fascinating and
incredibly beautiful.
If you had ever seen AlbertNamajura's paintings, um who was
(18:40):
the one of those um greatartists, you know, one of the
best known indigenous artistswho was painting in a Western
style, he absolutely capturedthe colours, uh the just those
dreamy, soft uh pinks and bluesof the of the West Max.
And it's a long low mountainrange that's broken into
segments.
So if you think of like acaterpillar that's got sort of
(19:01):
um you know as a land formation.
And and and and the caterpillaractually features in the
creation stories amongst thepeople here.
So you'll find the mountainranges broken into these
water-filled gorges.
Um, probably the most famous oneis Simpson Gorge, just outside
Alice, um, which is absolutelyspectacular and it set the tone
for those to come.
So, in in those, you can swim inmost of the waters.
(19:23):
Some of them are designated umcultural sites that you can't
swim in.
But I was on a swim mission, soI jumped in at Ellery Big Creek
Big Hole.
I jumped in at Ormiston Gorge,where we can't.
You can swim at Glen Helen andRed Bank Gorge.
So you can do a swim drive, swimdrive back around um around the
uh, particularly through theWest Mox.
And the water is, you know, it'sclear, it's it's clean, it's you
(19:47):
know, some of it's coming upfrom aquifers, and when you come
out of it, you just feelcompletely invigorated.
There was a there was a momentwhere we ran into an LGPTI tour
company and they did have um uhgrown men in budgie smugglers
jumping on um pink uniforms.
SPEAKER_05 (20:04):
Which is like, okay.
And some guy who is doing aPriscilla version, a Priscilla
version of the Red Center Way.
SPEAKER_04 (20:10):
Um, because Gisella Queen of the Desert was filmed
uh actually on King's parts ofit were filmed on King's Canyon,
on a lot of it through othersprings as well.
So it was a bit of a shock to godown for a swim in almost in
expecting this spiritualexperience.
And there was a guy in full dragstanding there with a pink
unicorn with his arms out.
SPEAKER_05 (20:28):
I was like, okay, everybody has a completely
different take on this one.
That's yours.
SPEAKER_00 (20:35):
I'd love to see the socials on that one.
Um, so yeah, so moving on.
What so where did you go next?
SPEAKER_04 (20:42):
Um, from the Westmax.
Um, this is a really interestingpart because the road is only
sealed, partly sealed, on thedrive to King's Canyon.
So the unsealed part is called aMarini Loop.
It's 160 kilometres.
It's a full three-hour drivewith stops to photograph wild
donkeys and brumbies on theroad.
This is um, this is Aboriginalland, and you do need a permit
(21:03):
to drive it.
I mean, the permit is fivebucks.
You get it from the touristcenter in Alice Springs.
So it's not like as soon as youstart saying road permits,
people go, oh my god, that's toodifficult.
And it's got admin.
And you know, I hate admin, youhate admin, the world hates
admin.
It was very easy, admin.
And that money goes back to thecommunities.
Basically, you know, you'rehaving permission to cross to
(21:24):
cross their lands.
Um, but it was a great drive,you know.
I'm in there in my four-wheeldrive warrior, and um, it had
rained the week before.
The council had graded it, rungraders over it, and and locals
um were telling me at Orvestonthey just made it 10 times
worse.
So it was like if you had anyloose teeth, it would have been
(21:44):
gone by the end of the threehours.
It was good.
Rugged.
SPEAKER_05 (21:48):
Can I say for the ladies out there, sports bro
territory, it was just so rough.
SPEAKER_00 (21:53):
But they call it road road message.
SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Oh my gosh, maybe that's all I've got to sell back
at the moment because I was justdumping my way over these.
Yeah, that could be the one.
SPEAKER_04 (22:02):
Um, there's some fabulous lookouts along the way
on particularly, I mean, on youcan't stop on the Marini drive,
on the Marini loop.
Um, just you know, you can stopfor a quick refreshment and
stuff, but you can't camp alongthere.
But on the sealed roads of theWestmax, there are plenty of
camping spots and panoramaswhere you can also camp the
night.
Um and you just drive up and youjust have that quiet time and
(22:23):
you you might just see a floodof uh of budrigars swooping
past, breaching, or zebrafinches, or you might find um,
you know, you might findlizards, and we had our eyes out
for um for little wallabies, umuh rock wallabies and you know,
when you when you I think thisis the thing when you're when
(22:44):
you're in uh country, you haveto uh take that time to just be
quiet and to listen to thecountry.
And that's when you starthearing and seeing the things
that otherwise you're justdriving past at a rate of knots.
So um, you know, there's plentyof spots to stop.
If you are not self-sufficient,um, I mean you've always got to
have your own drinking water andplenty of petrol.
(23:04):
But there's bathrooms, there'stoilets and picnic tables with
those fabulous views until youget to King's Canyon.
And the hero activity here,which I think you've done, is
the rim walk.
Um, and also an uh on the top ofKing's Canyon and also the much
shorter two-kilometer riverwalk, which was really lovely,
especially for birdwatchers.
So I've done the rim walk acouple of times.
(23:27):
It is definitely best as earlyas you can go in the morning
before the temperatures start torise.
And um, the week after we werethere, so the first week of
October, was when thetemperatures are starting to hit
36, and they actually closeaccess to the walk.
The rangers close access to thewalk by 11 a.m.
So you can't start the walkafter that.
And they say it's three to fourhours, but I mean, if you're a
(23:49):
if you're a fast walker and evenallowing time for stops and
photos and stuff, it yeah, Ifour hours is going to be a
stretch.
The first time I did it, uh butbut the thing is it, you know,
it's um on those hot days withthese fabulous rock formations
such as the Lost City and theCliff Walls, they just become
these massive heat radiators andit's very exposed.
And I have to say, the firsttime I did it, um, and I was
(24:11):
staying at the King's CanyonResort, the Discovery Parks
Resort, a bloke on on the walkactually did have a heart attack
because he'd overestimated hisscore.
I know, he'd overestimated hisabilities.
People were saying, Oh, it'seasy, you can do it, and stuff
like that.
He wasn't prepared, um, and hewasn't well enough to do it.
And yeah, and but this time umthere were I saw rangers, and I
(24:34):
had a chat to a ranger as wellwhile I was there, and there
were ranger stations all the waythrough with defibrillators and
um and emergency water in thosespots because and I and I think
this is important because theRed Center is becoming more
accessible um and people arechoosing to do it, but also
underestimating the land.
(24:55):
And I think that is a reallyimportant lesson about it, is
that you just Yeah, of course.
You don't you don'tunderestimate the environment.
SPEAKER_00 (25:03):
Yeah, that's right.
So um what would your advice beto people about where to eat and
what to do?
I mean, obviously you'reself-catering a lot, but what
what um what it what's youradvice about some cool places to
stop in to eat along the way?
SPEAKER_04 (25:17):
Well, I've got to say we did self-cater a lot
because we had um two teenageboys that were hoovering for
Australia.
Holy cracky! I mean, I have a Ihave a little girl, you know,
and she just kind of picksaround the edges, but the boys
were just like I I was actuallyin a state of shock.
So Kirsty, hats off to you.
No wonder you have got um goldor silver status through
(25:37):
shopping at Kohl's because oh mygod.
SPEAKER_05 (25:43):
So yeah, we always had food in the back.
Um food set is almost a parodyhere.
Um, you know, we I mean we atecamel burgers at the Discovery
Resort at King's Canyon.
Well, it's like giant bigthings.
SPEAKER_04 (25:56):
And I was, I thought, yeah, like enormous big
because there's wild camelseverywhere.
You know, camels, as everybodyknows, the GAN is named after
the allegedly Afghan umcameliers who, you know, when
they were building the the trainthrough central Australia, um, I
think most of them were forBelichestan anyway, but um,
yeah, so giant camel burgers andthen there's bushtucker
(26:18):
experiences.
So you kind of go in and eat thewitchety grubs at Carraq, which
is a um which is a bush tuckerexperience run by um local
people in near Kings Creekstation.
We did a bushtucker high tea atEzrack Resort.
Had to scrub up a little bit forthat one, um, because yeah,
we're looking pretty skanky atthat point.
So I just wanted to dust off abit and then go into Ezrack
(26:41):
Resort in the into the one ofthe fanciest of the um hotels
there.
And that's where you triedscones with Rosella Jam and all
sorts of bush ingredients andthe little pet eat bores.
And interestingly, they had avegan version for my travel
companion and photographer J,which was actually really
impressive.
And I thought, um I actuallythought that vegetarians,
(27:02):
celiacs, vegans, pretty mucheverybody was catered for at the
the bigger stations, um, at atthe at most of the food stocks,
you could get something thatthat um that would suit most
people.
I um I did notice actually,there wasn't there was a point
driving back up to Alice Springswhere the roadhouses there had
(27:24):
big signs and clearly had quitea few um southerners there with
barista coffee available.
SPEAKER_05 (27:30):
And I was like, Yes, I am in there.
I am driving in and I am havinga big fat flat white thank you
for coming.
SPEAKER_00 (27:39):
So um I'm sure I don't I don't know how my um and
shy latte would go, but um butanyway.
Actually, you would besurprised.
Um powder may powder, maybe notthe tea leaf.
SPEAKER_04 (27:53):
Yeah, possibly.
I don't know, because I'm not achai c uh childate connoisseur
like you, but I think you'd bepleasantly surprised at the
accessibility of of the foodaround there.
But you've always got to havethat bag in the back because you
never know what's gonna happen,right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:06):
So true.
And funny when you said aboutcleaning up and cleaning
yourselves up from the red dirt,it made me think about I
remember when I was in Broom andthey were saying, you know, that
it all it always stays with you,quite literally, because it's in
your clothing and your likesometimes uh like my shoes, I
think were never the same afterum, yeah, after that we did.
(28:27):
So what do you think this umtype of holiday, who's it sort
of best suited to?
And do you do you think it was agood place to have to take
teens?
SPEAKER_04 (28:37):
Um, I think that the Red Centre has something for
everyone.
I mean, you can camp and hikelike we did.
You can also do it in luxurywith those helicopter rides over
Uluru and Kings Canyon and um,you know, stays at the longitude
or those luxury lamping tents atKing's Creek station.
Um so and I think that mmobility-wise, it actually
caters for a lot of people aswell.
(29:00):
You know, if you are um notentirely mobile, the first time
I went to King's Creeks, uh toKings Canyon, I was with my mum,
who was really ill at the time.
And we drove there from Uluru,and um and she was so looked
after, you know, um they hadwheelchairs around if she was
feeling unwell.
I did the ream hike, she did thehelicopter.
(29:20):
So I think for all ages andstages, uh, you know, it's
especially if you're active.
I mean, you know, riding aroundUluru on bikes and stuff like
that was brilliant for the kids.
You can segue around them.
But then um, yeah, I I thinkwhatever you do, I think what
everybody needs to do, no matteryour time frame or your price
point, you do, as I saidearlier, you need you need to
(29:42):
slow down and experience this,the culture there, because it's
something that nowhere else inthe world can replicate.
And and you can do that easilywith a visit to the gallery of
central Australia at EzrockResort, or you can visit an
artist community near AliceSprings.
Um, we took a guided walk.
At Stanley Chasm in the Westmax.
(30:03):
Or, you know, you can do thosewalks around Uluru, stopping to
read the information and just tolisten and admire.
I mean, we took an amazingpre-dawn sunrise journey, which
is a two-hour storytellingexperience and art and light
installation just outside AirsRock Resort.
And while you're there, you haveyour breakfast and you are
watching as the sun is rising,like as as first light appears
(30:26):
over Uluru, um, this thesevoices of these artists are
telling the story uh about theland and about why they uh
welcome people to the country.
And you're hearing them speakingas you watch the sun rise over
Uluru.
And it's just magical because uhcoming back to the start, it
(30:48):
puts that that handback, thatUlaru handback into context
because I mean our country istied to one of the world's
oldest living cultures, andIndigenous Australians really
should not have to beg uh forrespect or appreciation for
their existence.
And if you can take that respectand appreciation away with you
from Central Australia, then youhave more than just a holiday,
but a holiday with with genuinemeaning.
SPEAKER_00 (31:10):
Yeah, amazing.
And we'll put a link in the shownotes too of the places that
Belle's talking about so youknow how to book them and how to
do them.
And if you want to see moreabout Belle's um experiences in
Central Australia, you can alsojump onto her socials, Globa
underscore salsa on Instagram orher website, globalselsa.com.
SPEAKER_03 (31:31):
You're listening to the World Awaits.
Subscribe through our website attheworldawaits.au.
SPEAKER_04 (31:39):
Our tip this week is about new rules about flying
with Virgin Australia.
SPEAKER_00 (31:44):
Yeah, so this is interesting because from
February you can now take eightkilograms on board.
And um, I have to say, when Iheard this, I did wonder if
they're going to police thisbecause Jet Star are um brutal
as far as um, you know, makingyou weigh usually.
You could I haven't flown jetstar for a while because I go I
go Virgin now because I want thepoints.
(32:04):
But um Jet Star were always andalso Jet Star let me down too
many times, but they they werebrutal with weighing your your
luggage.
So I just wonder um how they'regonna manage this because even
flying recently when I went to Iflew to Tahiti, oh my god, the
but the luggage that people aretaking, um, you know, giant
suitcases and trying to shovethem in overhead lockers, but
(32:25):
anyway.
SPEAKER_04 (32:26):
Yeah, I know.
I mean, I think that's the primesource of um flight rage in the
US is is is um the competitionfor locker space.
Um, but so eight kilos on board,and it's even more if you're
traveling in Economy X orbusiness, because they, along
with other loyalty programmembers, can carry two bags up
to 14 kilos plus one small item.
And I always debate how small isthat small item.
SPEAKER_00 (32:49):
Yes, exactly.
Um and also I do love this one.
So eligible economy flyers canalso now, this will be me, can
also now submit a bid on Virginon the Virgin Australia app to
reserve an empty seat besideyou.
So my god, I love this.
So it's on select flights, andum the bids start from only 30
bucks.
I'm doing this one.
(33:09):
It's called Neighborhood,Neighbor Free Seating Service,
and it's available now on, yeah,just like I said, some Select
Virgin Umestic and Short HallInternational, and they're gonna
have a wider rollout after thetrial period.
SPEAKER_04 (33:23):
Do you reckon that they'll ever have any spare
seats on Sydney Melbourne?
I mean, it is one of the world'stop three busiest flat boots in
the world.
It's just insane.
SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
It'll cost you.
It'll cost a certain youcertainly won't get it for 30
bucks.
SPEAKER_04 (33:36):
That's I know when you were saying I was like 30
bucks.
I mean, the last time I gotoffered an upgrade for a
domestic, they said, begin yourbid at$330 and you'll have a
good chance of getting thatupgrade.
I was like, there you go.
I've been so lucky, I've been solucky.
SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
I've had so many upgrades around the 100.
But yeah, I I hear you.
I mean, I yeah, I doubt verymuch you'll be getting it for 30
bucks.
SPEAKER_04 (33:58):
Oh, you're a mongrel, you have been so lucky.
So um, look, I'm I'm actuallymore excited.
I am more excited about theother recent development with um
Virgin Australia, which is theynow let you fly with a small dog
or a cat.
Bookings are now open forflights between Melbourne and
the Sunshine Coast and Melbourneand the Gold Coast.
Obviously, Melbourne love theirdogs.
(34:20):
Um, so you can travel with thosepets on this trail now until the
30th of January in 2026.
Um and Tiny Little Dog isincremental because um my friend
Julietta Jameson, uh, who lightsalso for the Sydney Morning
Herald, actually did the flightsum there.
And she's in the same boat as mebecause um the flights are
(34:43):
great, but your your pay has tobe under eight kilos.
But that also includes thecarrier, which might be a kilo
or two.
So really, you're looking at asix and a half to seven kilo
dog.
I mean, I don't want to bedoggus or anything like that,
but thick skilled dog.
I mean, my mine are 26 and 33 ona good day because he's he ate
(35:06):
all the pies.
SPEAKER_00 (35:07):
So my dogs are absolutely Well, I mean, you
think your dog ate all the pies,but um Kyla is actually 42
kilos, so she trumps your umfluff fluffy things that um your
dogs are a fur.
So that's probably where half oftheir weight goes.
Kyla's got no excuse, she's justpure fat.
Um, so I do I look, I do hopeit's extended one day to bigger
(35:29):
dogs, but um, do I want to be onthat flight with a heap of
howling dogs and whining cats?
No.
I mean, you know, screamingbabies is is bad enough, but uh
to have uh an entire flight fullof whining animals, I I really,
I really don't know.
But um, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (35:42):
Anyway, we will put a shark did have a screaming
baby behind me on my flight downto Tassie the other the other
day, and there was no coaxingthat kid into happiness.
But I do think that a um uh whatdo you smack okay?
Count them down.
You just like force feed themsmackos for the entire flight.
(36:03):
Hilarious.
I wonder they should be includedin the fair, right?
Imagine that if they includedfree smackos for every dog.
My dogs would be on thereregardless.
SPEAKER_00 (36:12):
Yeah, true.
But my with Kylo, you'dliterally be having to feed her
the entire packet of smackos,and she'd be vomiting in the
plane before you landed.
And that would be moreunpleasant than the whining and
the howling.
And we will put a link to allthe details about taking your
pets on board in the show notes.
SPEAKER_04 (36:39):
I am so excited to tell you about next week's
interview.
My guest is iconic Australianmusician David Bridey, who's a
founding member of world musicband Not Drowning Waving.
David has an unbreakable linkwith Papua New Guinea, and we
are going to talk abouttraveling in PG, which this year
celebrates its 50th anniversaryof independence from Australia.
SPEAKER_00 (37:00):
And we'd love it if you could follow us on socials.
You'll find us at the WorldAwaits Podcast on Instagram,
Facebook, and LinkedIn, and feelfree to drop us a line at hello
at the worldawaits.au.
Or if you're enjoying thisepisode, please give us a rating
and review.
SPEAKER_03 (37:14):
That's a wrap for the World Awaits this week.
Click to subscribe anywhere youlisten to your favourite pods.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
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