Have you ever thought about packing everything up, renting or selling the house and moving to Italy? Well, that’s just what our guest this week did.
Award-winning freelance food, travel and lifestyle journalist Natascha Mirosch has swapped the sunny shores of Brisbane to move temporarily to a tiny village south of Rome. We chat about why she did it, what there is to see and do in the region where she’s now living and how you could do it too.
We also have a last-minute Mother’s Day guide for the travel-loving mum in your family (or yourself) and do people really care about giving back when they travel? We give you the feedback from some of the experts including Booking.com's 2025 Sustainable Travel report.
Visit us at https://theworldawaits.au
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to The World Awaits.
Travel tales to inspire yourwanderlust.
Welcome back to The WorldAwaits.
How are you all?
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
Hi everyone.
How are you, Belle?
SPEAKER_01 (00:14):
It's been an interesting week.
I have been slogging away over astory about the best new
architecture openings in 2025for the Sydney Morning Herald.
And I also saw a preview of themovie The Salt Pass this week.
This is a film adaptation ofRain or Wind's best-selling
memoir, which is coming out inAustralian cinemas from May 15.
It was sponsored by U-Traxbecause they offer a number of
(00:37):
self-guided walking tours alongthe long-distance southwest
coast path, which at more than1,000 kilometres is England's
longest national trail.
So if you like lacing up thehiking boots, which we both do,
get in to see the movie, readthe book, maybe make a plan to
hike this part of the southernEnglish coastline.
So that's what I've got up tothis week.
(00:57):
What about you?
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
that's exciting.
I feel like I'm still catchingup from these two Fridays that
we lost.
Oh, man.
But I did also have a birthday,so I was a bit spoiled with some
vouchers and a really nicefamily dinner out.
And I even got a cake, althoughI had to ask for it.
And some...
I never get cakes.
I love getting a cake.
I just find everyone else cakesin the family and I never get
(01:22):
one.
So I put the word out there andI did get a lovely cake.
And I also got some beautifulflowers from a friend of mine.
And yeah, so I hate getting ayear older, but the gifts are
always nice.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
Happy birthday.
And I've got to say, I didn'tget you anything.
Those flowers were not from me.
I actually had a birthday a fewweeks before you.
I'm Aries, Kirsty's Gemini.
Oh, no, you're not.
You're Taurus, aren't you?
You have to do something.
Taurus, just in case anybody'sasking.
I actually spent my birthdaygetting the on two flights with
Qatar Airways to Tunisia.
And can I say, no, I did not geta business class upgrade for my
(01:53):
special day.
Indeed, Qatar, if you'relistening, I can fly next 13th
of April.
When we got back, I got a fewlittle prezzies from the family.
One of them we've been having abig discussion about was
actually a Vacuum cleaner?
Not just any vacuum cleaner.
It was one of those automatedones.
But here's the clincher, right?
Because I was like, oh my gosh,I'm getting cleaning products
for my birthday.
(02:13):
Kirsty was like, what?
My husband wouldn't be game todo that.
But it is one of those automatedones.
And it mops as well as vacuum.
So I've actually mopped,vacuumed and mopped the floors.
And I've got two big dogs.
So there's a lot of vacuumingand a lot of mopping going on in
my life.
I'm liking it.
I'm coming around to it.
At first I was like, are youperverse?
(02:34):
You bought me a vacuum cleanerfor my porch?
Far out, mate.
But I did just set it and gowhile I was writing this
morning.
Okay, all right.
I'm coming around.
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Look, I like the idea of being bought a vacuum
cleaner and a mop, but not formy birthday.
I know.
But look, anyway, you're right.
Having something justautomated...
And doing the job for you isvery nice.
Although, yeah, I make myhusband do vacuuming and
mopping, so there you go.
Anyway, moving on to otherthings.
(03:06):
So interestingly, a heap ofstudies have been coming out
lately showing that travelersare increasingly concerned about
making an impact when theytravel.
Bella and I actually often talkabout this, don't we?
Because we talk about it betweenourselves and about whether
people are actually consciouslytraveling.
booking travel based on this.
So we often talk about, dopeople actually really go into a
(03:28):
travel advisor or when they'relooking to book, are they
actively looking, oh, hey, wherecan I make a difference in the
world?
And you would think that giventhe number of companies who are
investing in travel that givesback to communities, that
actually it must be the casebecause there are a lot of
organizations that are doingamazing things like G Adventures
and Adventure Intrepid andAdventure World.
SPEAKER_01 (03:52):
That is true.
I reckon, though, I reckon thatwe unconsciously undertake a lot
of those travel for goodinitiatives because if we're
searching for authentic travelexperiences, then it just
becomes part of the parcel, likestaying in small family-run
hotels as opposed to the bigchains or eating at local
restaurants instead of amultinational fast food outlet.
(04:15):
As you mentioned, Intrepid,which I've worked a lot with
over many years on their guidedtours, they incorporate at least
one meal in a family home on itstour.
In the past, like I was inTurkey about 18 months ago with
them, we had lunch with a womanand her daughter in Istanbul and
then again in Cappadocia down insouthern Turkey.
(04:36):
It's a massive tourist hubbecause everybody goes there for
that perfect ballooningexperience over the cave cities
and stuff.
But when we went in to havelunch or dinner with this
family, The mother who'd cookedeverything, prepared for about
10 of us, said she'd actuallyput her two girls through
university.
And they were things likeengineers and doctors.
And she paid for that out of themoney that she earned from
(04:57):
cooking for Intrepid.
And this is in a country thatonly 30% of women have any
participation in the paidworkforce.
Traditionally, traditionalvalues, you stay at home and
stuff like that.
But not everybody has.
a husband there to earn forthem.
And so it's quite interesting.
Sometimes you think, you don'teven think that you're doing
travel for good, but when you'rechoosing those sorts of
experiences, you are getting amore local feel to the tour
(05:20):
rather than just being hoardingtourist traps and big gold shiny
stars for you.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:25):
And if you scoot on back to episode 86, actually, we
spoke to Abercrombie& KentPhilanthropy, which Keith
Rowell, who actually runs thewhole philanthropy arm there.
And he was talking about someincredible initiatives they're
doing.
There's women who they set upbike shops for and they have
sold more than 8,000 bikes intheir local communities.
(05:46):
And then as a tourist, you cango along to these bike shops and
see what these incredibleentrepreneurial women are doing,
which is sustaining theirlivelihood and being able to
send their kids to school.
And it's all across Africa andthe Middle East.
And also they, by going alongand actually visiting them and
you can go out and with ANK onactually they've got 55
(06:07):
philanthropy projects across 24countries but you can go out and
actually by going and doing thateven just because you happen to
be staying in one of theirproperties or the properties
associated with them that theyoffer you are giving back to the
community and This is the thingthat makes such a big
difference.
We also spoke to Bruce Prentipabout this because he's the
(06:28):
founder of G Adventures and amassive advocate, obviously, for
giving back to community aswell.
And if you've gone back to theSun Series 4, way back in our
early days, yeah, he has someincredible projects he talks
about too.
But it's also about this wholetopic.
It's such a broad topic.
And it's also about going toplaces where they're investing
back into the environment.
(06:48):
So There's an amazing example ofthis, and I'm going here in July
to Cambodia.
There's a property calledSongsa, which is founded by a
woman called Melita Kulmandis.
Now, she was in Cambodia withher boyfriend at the time, and
she went to this island andsubsequently was offered the
island and bought it for 15,000US, which she took back in a
(07:10):
brown paper bag across from themainland back to the island to
pay for this island.
And at the time the island wasdecimated, there were like 50
fishing boats parking out, justcompletely decimating the marine
population.
And her efforts in collaborationwith local chiefs actually
formed Cambodia's firstprotected marine park.
That just blows my mind.
And as a traveler, you mightjust go there because it's such
(07:33):
an exceptional property andoutstanding property.
And like you said, Belle,without even really, not
actively even probably realisingit, it's just the authenticity
of the destination.
But by participating andactually going there and going
snorkelling and paying to gosnorkelling, your funds are
going back to preserving thatenvironment that she's now
created, which is now a marinepark, which was, like I said,
(07:56):
just decimated.
So it's really remarkable howthe extent of what we can do as
travellers.
SPEAKER_01 (08:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's a phenomenal point.
I think it's absolutelyphenomenal.
And that's one person doingthat.
Some of the research around thishas been undertaken by
Booking.com, which released itssustainable travel research
recently, finding that there's agrowing awareness of both the
social and cultural impacts oftravel.
So this is actually the 10thedition where they've explored
consumer attitudes andintentions about the social and
(08:26):
ecological impacts of travel.
travel and they surveyed 32,000travellers in 34 countries,
which included 1,000 people fromAustralia.
SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
Yeah, and when they did one back in 2016, this is
quite interesting, 40% ofAussies said believes that they
did travel sustainably, but by2025, that was up to 91%.
And who said that they wanted tomake more sustainable choices?
We obviously are more consciousabout it and wanting to do it.
And I certainly know I am.
It's absolutely something I dothink about before I travel or
(09:00):
when I make my travelarrangements.
But yeah, whether or not themajority do, that was always
debatable.
But all of these stats areshowing that there is a massive
shift and awareness andpreferences and priorities when
it comes to actually wanting tomake a more positive impact when
you travel.
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
Yeah, and the research also found that for the
first time, more than half theAustralians surveyed are
conscious of travel's impact oncommunities as well as the
environment.
So think about the conversationswe've had about whether or not
to cruise into Venice and 67%now said they want to leave
places better than when theyarrived.
talk about things likeprotecting Antarctica or not
(09:38):
influencing a community with allof your negatives, bringing
sugary treats into remotecommunities, that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (09:46):
And there was actually more research as well.
So another recent study byVirtuoso, which is a leading
global network of 20,000 traveladvisors, that found that 68% of
travellers say recent globalevents have inspired them to
want to travel more responsibly.
And it also found 62% of luxurytravellers surveyed said that
(10:06):
sustainable travel does enhancetheir travel experience.
And that's back to what we weresaying about that being hand in
hand with an authenticexperience and feeling like
you're really immersing yourselfin the community and giving back
and all of that.
So that was a rise on 44% fromlast year and 59% remain willing
to spend more on responsibletravel.
So they're looking at actuallyhappy to fork out a bit more.
SPEAKER_01 (10:29):
If they know where those funds, if they know those
funds are being used forresponsible travel.
So when asked what actions theywould potentially take to curb
over tourism, 32% they'rewilling to travel to
alternative, less exploreddestinations.
So we're thinking instead ofSantorini, going to Paros or
somewhere like that, or one ofthe less known Greek isles.
And 26% would visit a populardestination off-peak, such as
(10:54):
giving Europe a miss in highsummer.
Destination for expert guidanceon sustainable travel is also
growing.
So 25% of travellers say they'remore likely to travel
responsibly with support from atrusted advisor up from 16% last
year.
SPEAKER_00 (11:08):
Yeah.
And again, that just all provesthe power of talking to a travel
advisor you trust because theyknow how to guide you best to
make sure that you can have anexperience that You know, that
certainly gives back to thecommunities and also to the
environment.
And clearly, from what we'vesaid, that seems to be what
everyone wants.
So we'll put a link in the shownotes for some great tips, too,
(11:30):
of ways that you can travel forgood.
This week, I'm chatting toaward-winning freelance food
travel and lifestyle journalistNatasha Mirosh, who has swapped
the sunny shores of Brisbane tomove temporarily to a tiny
(11:52):
village south of Rome.
We chat about why she did it,what there is to see and do in
the region where she's livingnow, and how you can do it too.
Welcome to the show, Natasha.
Thank you for having me.
It's so great to have you on TheWorld Awakes.
Tell us, we'll just start bytelling us a little bit about
how you got into the travelindustry and what you're doing
now.
(12:13):
Look, I was in my 20s and I'dbeen living in London for about
four years at that stage.
I'd been back to Australia for acouple of months after the sort
of the typical two years, but Ijust couldn't settle.
So I'd come back.
I'd always really loved writing.
And so I started doing a nightcourse in journalism at a local
college in London with the ideaof going on eventually to uni to
(12:34):
study journalism.
And I received a letter from afriend who'd returned home.
It was kind of a long essayreally about the joy of coming
back to Australia after livingin Europe for a couple of years.
And it was really good.
I really enjoyed reading it.
I suggested he turned it into atravel article and that I'd
submit it to a travelpublication in London that was
(12:56):
aimed specifically at Australiantravellers.
So he did.
He wrote it.
And I wrote a sort ofcontrasting version about how
difficult I'd found it to settlein.
You know, I wasn't ready to goback to Australia at that stage.
And there were things that Ifound really strange.
And I sent them both off, faxedthem actually at that stage,
that shows you how old I am, tothe publication.
(13:19):
And a couple of weeks later, tomy great surprise, I picked up,
it was a free publication thatyou would get from the train
stations.
And I picked it up and there wasmy article published in it.
Not his, just mine.
And a couple of days later, Igot a check in the post for 45
pounds.
And so I was just like, my God,you can make money doing this.
(13:43):
So I started doing temporaryadmin jobs.
And between those temping jobs,I would travel and then I'd
write about it and submit it todifferent publications.
And I picked up a couple ofregular columns in newspapers
and magazines.
And that was it really.
It was, that was it really.
It was 10 years before Irestarted and actually finished
(14:06):
that degree.
and got a staff job on anewspaper.
So I kind of did it allbackwards to the way most people
do it.
I started freelancing and thengot a staff job rather than the
way people do it usually, whichis the other way around.
So that was it.
Absolutely.
It is normally the other wayaround.
And here you are still doing itand highly successfully.
And because it's such a remoterole, you're able to do it from
(14:31):
anywhere.
And so you tell us, you have totell us what made you want to
pack up And moved to Italy.
Well, the long version is I'vealways been drawn to Italy ever
since I was a child.
It was kind of the first foreignculture that I'd been exposed to
because my mother's twin sisterhad married a Florentine.
(14:52):
And every couple of years, sheand my uncle and my cousins
would come to Australia to visitus.
And I just thought they were themost glamorous beings ever.
You know, they were just so,they just came in with this
European feel about them and Iloved the sound of the language.
So when I was 21, I went toFlorence to stay with my aunt
(15:14):
and my cousins and I did a monthof language school there.
And I stayed for a few monthsdoing nannying and I really,
really loved it.
Later though, when I moved toLondon, I met an Italian who, he
didn't speak much English atthat time.
And we got together and we movedin together and we frequently
visited Italy, either seeing hisfamily or mine.
(15:37):
After we broke up, after fiveyears or so, I came back to
Australia, but I still lovedItaly and I continued visiting
regularly, including in timewith my husband, who also fell
in love with Italy.
Then late last year, one of mybrother's old girlfriends from,
you know, 30 years agoreconnected with me and we
(15:57):
started to hang out a bit.
And it turns out that she hadmarried and divorced an Italian
and had an apartment in avillage in Italy.
She doesn't rent it out topeople.
She only lets people, friendsand family stay in it.
They're all kind of regulationsabout if you rent it out to a
(16:17):
local person, basically you cannever get rid of them.
They're there for life.
So she doesn't do that.
She comes and stays for a coupleof months every year and the
rest of the time she just letspeople she knows stay here.
And she offered it to us.
And of course, I accepted.
My husband was fortunately hadquite a lot of long service
leave.
So he took a couple of monthslong service leave.
(16:40):
And coincidentally, happily, I'mcurrently doing my master's
dissertation on an Italian foodsubject.
So it seemed like everythingjust came together and it was
the perfect time to immersemyself in Italian culture.
Amazing.
So you didn't have any otherresponsibilities at home that
you had to deal with?
animals and no no sadly our dogwas very elderly had lived a
(17:03):
lovely life had passed on and myson has now moved out of home so
we actually got got a friend'sdaughter to come and house sit
for us so she's enjoying thatshe's at uni and so yeah we had
we had no reason to not do it Ohmy gosh, I just cannot wait to
get to that stage where mychildren have moved out of home
and I can do it too.
(17:23):
So tell us a bit first of allabout the region of exactly
where you are and a bit aboutwhat you've been doing and what
there is to do there.
Yeah, I'm in Lazio, which isRome, of course, is the capital
of that region.
We're living in a very small,very old village that was, it's
very historic.
It was once enclosed by wallsand there's the remains of a
(17:45):
castle at the top.
The apartment we're in, it's atthe highest point.
It's a pedestrian only area.
So you have to leave your carsort of halfway down.
Not that we have a car, butyeah, you can't drive here.
It's very typical withcobblestone lanes and it's very
pretty, but it's, you know, it'sa typical village.
(18:05):
People live here.
It's not a tourist village.
It's very close to the coast.
So I'm sitting out on theterrace at the moment and I can
look out over the plain andthere's a lake.
in front of us.
And beyond that, there is thesea.
It's just about an hour by trainto both Rome and Naples.
So we're between both.
So we do day trips there.
(18:27):
Rome is a bit crazy at themoment, as you can imagine.
So we've been avoiding that, butwe had a great day trip to
Naples where we did a food tourrecently, which was just
fabulous.
There's not so much to do in thevillage itself.
It's very quiet.
But there are lots ofinteresting little towns that
are just a bus or a train rideaway.
We went to one the other day,full of ancient ruins and, you
(18:50):
know, this incredible templethat we just wandered around
completely on our own.
It's just incredible.
But that's what you want, right?
If you were staying, like if youwere going to, if I was going to
go and stay, I want to find aremote little village where I
can sort of integrate with thelocal culture and just, yeah,
live like a local.
I mean, that's such a remarkableexperience.
(19:11):
That's exactly what it is.
And it's, you know, there arenegatives to that as well.
But, you know, generally, if youwant that authentic experience,
and I hate the word authentic,but you know what I mean, that's
what you need to do rather thanstaying in those tourist areas.
We just spent a long weekend onthe most beautiful island called
Ponza, which we can actually seefrom here.
It's just off the coast.
(19:32):
And it's a place where reallyonly Neapolitan and Roman
families go.
I mean, we didn't hear...
any English at all.
In fact, we have not heard anyEnglish since we've been here
apart from when we visited Rome,you know.
And around the village itself,there are plenty of walks.
We've got mountains behind usand there's one of Europe's last
(19:55):
remaining cork forests, which isnot very far away.
Yeah.
And apart from Rome, this regionreally doesn't get a lot of
attention from tourists.
So as I said, we haven't met anyEnglish speakers at all, really.
Remarkable.
So what have you been doingabout, you know, how have you
been integrating into the localcommunity and tell us a bit
(20:16):
about some of the local peopleand, you know, have you met the
local characters?
We have, and I was very luckythat my friend who owns the
apartment has given us a writtenload of some of the villagers.
though we were prepared.
She pointed out the hierarchy.
For example, there's a group ofmatriarchs here and we need to
(20:37):
be particularly diplomatic withwho we speak to and what we tell
them and, you know, what kind ofrespect we give to which people.
You do see the same faces a lotand we don't know everybody's
names, but now they greet us.
They've seen us around and theyknow that we're the Australiani.
(20:58):
There's a group of old men whodo a walk around the perimeter
of the village every afternoonwho we usually chat to because
we try to do the same.
There's the church bells justgone.
Then there's Daniele who ownsthe only bar in the old town.
It's just almost just below us,which is very dangerous because
they do excellent cornetti,which are like a croissant
(21:19):
filled with cream or pistachiocream, which they do for
breakfast.
I've joined the local libraryand I'm on a WhatsApp group of
the local fruiter, fruiter afarmer, who sends daily messages
and photos of what he's got infresh, which is very cool.
And a couple of days ago on thelittle community bus, an old guy
tried to sell me a bag ofchigoria, which is like a bitter
(21:42):
herb that he'd foraged in thehills.
It was like he was doing a drugdeal with me, but I actually
can't stand this stuff, so Ididn't buy it.
That's hilarious.
So tell us a bit about what havebeen some of the biggest
challenges of making, you know,making this move.
Honestly, it's been pretty easy.
The biggest challenge is thestairs.
(22:04):
There are just so many stairshere.
And pretty much anywhere aroundthis area.
We don't have a car, so we haveto walk down to the plane, to
the flat, to the supermarket, orif we want to go to the train
station to get anywhere.
There is a little community busthat comes up and down, but it's
very erratic and seems to have avery long lunch break, like many
(22:27):
things in Italy.
So you can't always rely on it.
The other challenge is that foran introvert like me, we have to
make the first move really increating relationships.
So everyone's like superfriendly, but when they realize,
especially when they realizethat we can speak Italian, but
they don't tend to approach usfirst or ask us questions.
(22:50):
So we have to make the firstmove.
And then there's been a coupleof lingual difficulties, not too
many, but there was a very longand very complex conversation
that I had about the rubbishcollection which with the senora
who lives downstairs because therubbish collection here is very
complicated it's six days a weekand on each day is a different
(23:13):
different type of rubbish andthere is one particular rubbish
bin that we didn't realize wasonly for one specific reason and
it has a barcode and this is allthe rubbish that you that
doesn't go in the recycling soyou've got plastics you've got
glasses on glass on one dayyou've got metal on another day
paper on another day and thenyou've got this one which is
(23:33):
called indiferenza which iseverything else that can't be
recycled and it has a barcode onthe side and apparently the
rubbish man scans that barcodebecause you only get a certain
number of those collectionsincluded and then you have to
pay for them after then soeverybody's very protective over
their indiferenza bin and wewere just pity of the bin so
(23:54):
that took quite a bit for me tounderstand So unlike at home
here where we just all run outand load up the neighbour's bins
whenever we, whenever on rubbishday we're running down the
street trying to fill up theneighbour's bins, you wouldn't
be doing that then.
And what about, what have beensome of the nicest surprises
since you've been there?
Look, I think the biggestsurprise has been how easy it's
(24:16):
been to adapt.
It already feels like home.
It's, you know, it's sodifferent to the short visits
that we've done in the past.
And I think part of that is notjust the length of time that
we're here, but where we are.
You know, we're really off thebeaten track here.
Like most people that I've metoutside of the village, if I
(24:38):
tell them where we're living,have no idea where it is.
Italians I'm talking about.
So, you know, it's not awell-known place.
So we're really having to reallyimmerse ourselves in the
day-to-day life of, you know,Italians without all the helpful
information.
that you normally get as atourist.
(24:59):
So it's much more complex tonavigate, but a lot more fun.
And if someone was going tovisit there, like as a
traveller, rather thancompletely moving there, would
you, I mean, and they wanted tostay in somewhere like where you
are, which would give them areally true, like we hate, I
also hate the word authentic,but a really genuine sort of
(25:21):
immersion into the localculture.
Are there places that you canstay or would you be hiring a
house or doing an Airbnb orsomething?
I think you'd probably be doingan Airbnb, you know, unless
you're, I'm so fortunate to havesomebody.
But, you know, there are lots oflittle Airbnbs and places in
(25:41):
these towns that aren'tnecessarily on the tourist track
that are not horrendouslyexpensive.
So there is plenty ofopportunity.
But what I would say is that ifyou're going to do this, that
you should hit the Duolingomaybe.
I already spoke some Italian,but my husband did Duolingo
lessons online for months beforewe came here.
(26:02):
And he says that it's given himsuch a different experience from
our other trips because peoplejust open up to you so much when
you speak their language.
You know, when we go up tosomebody and introduce
ourselves, for example, youknow, they immediately smile and
they just start talking to us,you know, like we're Italians
(26:23):
and, you know, they're very,very friendly.
I think it would be quitedifficult to navigate without
any Italian, though, of course,it's much easier these days with
Google Translate and other appslike that.
And what are some of the othertips for people who actually did
want to do exactly what you'redoing, like me?
And, you know, and what would besome tips for what, you know,
(26:47):
how do you do it?
I mean, if you don't have, likeyou say, if you don't have
unfortunate enough to knowsomeone to get a house or, and
just generally, what were someof the things that you wish
you'd known before you did it?
Well, I would say that One thingthat you can do is to do a house
swap with somebody.
(27:08):
And often those house swaps tendto be in regions like this.
I have a friend who manages theAustralian kind of branch of a
house swapping association, andshe spends months every year in
different places swappinghouses.
And I said to her once, youknow, really, do people want to
come and stay in suburbanBrisbane?
(27:28):
I love my city, but, you know,it's not exactly a touristy kind
of place.
And she said, yeah, absolutely.
So there is always that optionto join a reputable house
swapping.
But there are also lots ofgroups that you can join,
Facebook groups, you know, for,I absolutely love the word
expats, but, you know, that canhelp you find somewhere to stay.
(27:51):
Doing a course like I did when Ifirst came to Italy all those
years ago is always a goodoption.
There are lots of languagecourses and it just gives you
that introduction to not justthe language, but to meet other
people and to make thoseconnections locally, I guess.
And so on a day-to-day basis, Imean, are you going to be doing
(28:14):
a lot more sort of trips out oris it mostly day trips and what
are you both doing on aday-to-day basis?
I'm still working so I'm writingtravel stories.
I have some trips planned sowe're going to Austria and we're
going to Slovakia.
My husband and I worked out thatwe've been to every region in
(28:38):
Italy apart from Calabria so weare meeting some English friends
and going to Calabria.
in June for a couple of days,which will be fun.
We're actually going to hire acar that time and drive down the
coast and back up the coastagain.
On a day-to-day basis, we try todo a couple of day trips every
day.
So I'm here to work.
(28:59):
I'm working on my dissertationand I'm working on my travel
stories.
So I put aside a bit of timeevery day to do that.
Sometimes I'll go to thelibrary.
Sometimes I'll just sit out onthe terrace in the sun and do my
work.
My husband's been making littleexcursions by himself, so
jumping on the train.
Like yesterday, he went toFormia, which is a coastal town
(29:19):
not far from here.
And the rest of the time, we'rejust kind of living like we
would at home, you know, doingour washing and hanging out the
laundry and, you know, doinghome chores and going to the
supermarket and cooking ourmeals.
UNKNOWN (29:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
Are you pleased that you made the move?
Like, is it something that youthink, you know, are you pleased
that you did it?
I'm so happy I did it.
I mean, it's like sort of goingback in time for me to my 20s
when I did it the first time.
And strangely enough, it was thesame period of time that I did
(29:58):
it back then in my 20s, the samemonths.
We arrived at a great timebecause it was just before
Easter.
And so, and they have a verytraditional Easter procession
here, which was fantastic.
We turned up at the church andall of the villages were dressed
up either in ancient Romangladiator type costumes, soldier
(30:21):
costumes, or they were dressedup as, you know, in headscarves
and robes, et cetera, andsmoking outside the church.
while waiting for the processionto come up from the road below
along the alleyways and into thechurch where they did this big
sort of, I guess it's thepassion play.
I'm not Catholic or even vaguelyreligious, so I'm not really
(30:44):
sure.
But it was a lot of fun and allof the villagers seemed to get
involved.
They were all dressed up.
And then we've had, yesterdaywas a May Day holiday here.
We've had, what else have we hadhere?
Oh, the...
The village sausage festival wason a week or so after we got
here, which was lots of fun.
(31:06):
It's a very traditional sausagethat they make here with, I
think with fennel seeds.
And then they serve it with thisherb that they call broccoli,
but it's actually like a wildbroccoli leaves and they stuck
it into a crunchy baguette type.
bum.
And so they're all kind ofstalls set up and fireworks.
And yeah, it was really fun.
(31:27):
So we've arrived at such a greattime.
And of course, it's spring andthere are just all around us are
just verges with flowers growingwild everywhere.
The weather is just perfect.
It's been about 18 to 20everyday blue skies, sunshine,
I'm already ridiculously brownjust from sitting out on the
(31:48):
terrace doing my work because wedon't burn like we do in
Australia.
So, yeah, I'm really very happythat I did it.
And in fact, I get a bit of asinking feeling in my stomach
when I think about going home.
Oh, that's so nice.
And yes, I can imagine I wouldfeel the same.
What an incredible experience.
(32:09):
And to be so somewhere that is,you know, not too far from the
main cities, but still so quietand a little, you know, village
where you could really immerseyourself amongst that culture
must just be such an incredibleexperience.
UNKNOWN (32:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:26):
Yeah, look, it really is.
And it's interesting that, youknow, a lot of these villages
are dying out in Italy.
You know, young people aremoving away.
But this village seems to beparticularly dynamic.
And I think it's because of thisgroup of matriarchs that, you
know, keep it so like this.
It's decorated all the time.
So they have at the moment, it'sall decorated in spring, spring
(32:47):
colors.
And there's paper flowershanging from things all over the
alleyways.
And People have got buckets offlowers out and paintings on
their walls.
And then come summer, that willchange.
And then during the Christmasperiod, again, it's all
decorated, lights andeverything.
So they're very dynamic.
(33:07):
And it's great to see that thereare a few young children in the
village as well.
There are a lot of old people, alot of old people.
And I watch them, some of themwith walking sticks and think,
wow, how do you cope with this?
village with all these stairs,slippery surfaces, etc.
But, you know, they love it andthey don't want to move anywhere
else.
And it's a really great vibeliving here.
(33:30):
And it's a lot of the reasonwhy, you know, everyone talks
about the blue zones.
And when we were in Sardinialast year, they were saying a
lot of the reason a lot of thesepeople are living so long and
such healthy lives is becauseYeah, they are doing, they're
out, they're out, they are outand about.
They have no option but to be.
So that certainly helped withlongevity.
(33:51):
Oh, look, it just sounds like aremarkable experience.
And yeah, I'm sure that therewould be lots of people wanting
to follow in your footsteps andwho will be listening, just
wishing that it was them thatwere doing it.
So if someone was going to justcome and visit, what's one thing
to that very area?
What's one thing that you thinkthey should definitely make sure
they do?
(34:12):
Look, I would say to visit thePonteen Islands.
They are very, very undervisitedby tourists.
I've been twice and they're justabsolutely idyllic, unspoiled.
Imagine Capri, but without anyof the pretension or prices.
And, you know, there are very,very few tourists there.
(34:33):
It's just the color of thewater, the geology of these
volcanic islands, the peace andquiet where we were staying, you
know, the We would be woken upin the morning either by the
church bells or, oh, there's onegoing right now in our village,
or roosters.
You know, it was just so, it'sjust so peaceful.
And, you know, going out on aboat and being able to jump into
(34:57):
this water that's just so clearor swim through caves, it's
incredible.
So don't miss the FontaineIslands.
Amazing what great advice ohlook it's been so great chatting
with you and I could talk aboutit for hours but we are running
out of time so I'm going to askyou the question that we ask all
of our interviewees our lastquestion which is what's the
(35:17):
most bizarre thing that's everhappened to you on your travels?
Well it's not a bizarreexperience but it's certainly a
life-changing one.
I was on an assignment on aGreek island and after I
finished doing that particularassignment, I decided to extend
my stay.
And I went and I found somewhereon the beach, it was like this
(35:37):
Taverna Apartments to stay at.
The owner's son and I were doinga little bit of heavy flirting
while I was there, but nothinghappened.
And we said goodbye on the daythat I was due to leave.
And his dad dropped me at theairport, which is a very small
military airport that has aflight to Athens once a week.
(36:00):
So I sat there waiting for myflight and then this
announcement came saying thatbecause of the weather, the
flight was cancelled andbasically come back next week.
So I had to go back to thevillage and back to the taverna.
I caught a lift with somebody atthe airport and turned up again
and said, here I am.
Do you mind if I stay anotherweek?
(36:21):
So I stayed there for anotherweek.
And during that week, Theo and Ihad a romantic liaison.
And despite that, proportions, Igot pregnant and my son is now
25 years old.
So that was probably the bestsouvenir I ever brought back
with me on a trip.
(36:43):
I love that.
It's been so great chatting withyou and thank you so much for
your time.
And we will put a link to your,you know, your Instagram and
people can follow you and watchthe amazing things that you were
doing.
SPEAKER_01 (36:57):
Thanks for having me.
Oh, how insanely jealous we are.
And there's some great tipsthere too from Natasha about how
you can follow in her footsteps.
And you can follow her onInstagram at Natasha Mirosh.
And we'll put a link in the shownotes as well.
And we'll spell her nameN-A-T-A-S-C-H-A Mirosh,
M-I-R-O-S-C-H.
(37:30):
Mother's Day is just days awayand our tip this week is about
what to do for yourtravel-loving mum.
That's me, so I'm hoping myfamily listens.
Or if you just want to spoilyourself this Mother's Day,
starting with a new concept, Ilove it so much, created by IHG
Hotels and Resorts called, waitfor the acronym, NOMO, which
stands for Night On My Own.
(37:50):
And you know how I do love agood acronym, Kirsty.
SPEAKER_00 (37:54):
Yes, you do.
I love it.
Awesome.
I love it.
Yeah, so basically IHG hasrevealed some new research
showing that 61% of us, Ithought it might even be higher
than that, crave alone time.
So that means we don't want anykids, partner pets, and no
housemates.
SPEAKER_01 (38:11):
Ah, could do without all the rat.
And to celebrate the no-moexperience, IHG Hotels and
Resorts is launching newpackages at more than 30
properties across Australia andNew Zealand until the end of
June, so June 30th.
So
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
in addition to things like breakfast in bed or
the glass of bubbles, It's alsooffering spa credit, unlimited
spa treatments, luxurious PJsand bubble bath kits.
And yeah, we will actually put alink in the show notes so you
can look at some of the ideasfor your mum.
But for something else, we havegot some other ideas too.
For something else that's maybea little less expensive and that
(38:46):
still shows a lot of love, Ilove that sort of personalised
gift.
So why not go and buy a photoframe and then frame your
favourite photo with mum,especially if it's a trip that
you did together somewherespecial or...
you know, that if you've got aphoto of yourself, but when you
travelled somewhere, maybe mummight like that too.
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
What a photo of you travelling without your mum.
Hey, mum, here's you, Barry.
Which you never got to becauseyou could...
I don't know.
What I do is electronic photoframes.
I think they're just gorgeous.
But to be honest, on those IHGpackages, I think the 4pm
checkout is the bit that had mejumping for joy, as well as a
breakfast in bed, because thereis nothing truly more luxurious
(39:25):
than having a really good cup oftea in bed that you didn't have
to make yourself and walk backup to bed in.
Or you could buy something thatreflects your mum's favourite
place in the world, or cook hera meal from a place she loves,
maybe a bit of Italian, or breakout the sushi, possibly even a
bottle of wine from a place thatshe has been and adores.
SPEAKER_00 (39:43):
Yes, I love that.
And I challenged my family totry and find a bottle of the
Sardinian wine that I snuck backin the luggage when we came back
last year.
In fact, I had spread them out,one in the son's luggage, one in
mine.
And you cannot buy it here.
But no, to be honest, I wouldjust be happy with a nice
Italian feast with ensuring thatthe teens actually stayed home
(40:07):
and had a nice dinner with us.
SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
Yeah, that's very cute.
But if you were going on a wineadventure, you could get an
immersive exploration at VoyagerEstate in the Margaret River.
So before you even arrive at theestate, you get a dedicated wine
guide who gets your mum in touchto cover wine interests,
passions and preferences.
And so you've got a completelytailored visit.
So it could, to do things likehaving a hands-on Chardonnay
(40:30):
masterclass or a verticalcabaret tasting, a cabaret, I
don't want to say cabaret.
I was like, yeah, I'm out forthe cabaret.
Cabaret! Cabernet tasting,right?
Cabaret, more Cabernet.
SPEAKER_00 (40:42):
Yeah, and imagine getting a phone call by a wine
guide before you travel there sothey can help you bespoke your
experience.
How cool would that be?
And another idea would be somereally nice travel size shampoo
and conditioner or lip balm ormoisturizer.
You can never get too much ofthat.
Actually, you always tell me toget, to take lip balm and I
always forget.
And then when I, the few timesyou've told me in a warmer, very
(41:03):
warm climate, like especiallyhiking and even hiking because
of wind and stuff.
Yeah, it definitely makes a bigdifference.
Also, what about a monogrammedwater bottle?
I was given one, actually, at anevent I went to, and I love it.
Like, how nice is that, havingyour name monogrammed on a water
bottle?
Or you could get her monogrammedluggage tag.
Or how about just buy your mum,and you can use it for yourself
(41:27):
or buy one for yourself, ahammock so you can recreate
holidays at home.
SPEAKER_01 (41:32):
But I only spilled my tea in the hammock, so it's
never going to work for me.
I like the idea of hammocks.
I never have the right place tostick them.
But I do travel-sized shampoo.
And yes, lip balm with SPF in itis always a given in my bag when
I'm traveling.
And because we're both booklovers, how about Lonely
Planet's newest guide, WomenTravel Solo, which is full of
(41:54):
travel tips for those who wantto travel solo.
Another massive trend at themoment.
And that brings us back to thenomo, right?
The night on my own.
So you knew I'd have to put thatin there some way, Kirsty.
UNKNOWN (42:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:05):
I knew you'd bring her back.
I knew you'd bring her back.
Yes, I did.
If you'd like to help supportour production costs, you can
buy us a coffee at coffee.comslash theworldawaits.
That's ko-fi.com slashtheworldawaits so we can
continue to bring youinspirational travel interviews
(42:26):
with the world's best.
If you enjoyed this episode,please give us a rating and
review on Apple Podcasts.
Click on our profile, scroll tothe bottom to ratings and
reviews.
And if you're on Spotify, go toour main page and click the
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(42:46):
That's a
SPEAKER_01 (42:46):
wrap for The World Awaits this week.
Click to subscribe anywhere youlisten to your favourite pods.
SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
Welcome to The World Awaits.
Travel tales to inspire yourwanderlust.
Welcome back to The WorldAwaits.
How are you all?
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
Hi everyone.
How are you, Belle?
SPEAKER_01 (00:14):
It's been an interesting week.
I have been slogging away over astory about the best new
architecture openings in 2025for the Sydney Morning Herald.
And I also saw a preview of themovie The Salt Pass this week.
This is a film adaptation ofRain or Wind's best-selling
memoir, which is coming out inAustralian cinemas from May 15.
It was sponsored by U-Traxbecause they offer a number of
(00:37):
self-guided walking tours alongthe long-distance southwest
coast path, which at more than1,000 kilometres is England's
longest national trail.
So if you like lacing up thehiking boots, which we both do,
get in to see the movie, readthe book, maybe make a plan to
hike this part of the southernEnglish coastline.
So that's what I've got up tothis week.
(00:57):
What about you?
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
that's exciting.
I feel like I'm still catchingup from these two Fridays that
we lost.
Oh, man.
But I did also have a birthday,so I was a bit spoiled with some
vouchers and a really nicefamily dinner out.
And I even got a cake, althoughI had to ask for it.
And some...
I never get cakes.
I love getting a cake.
I just find everyone else cakesin the family and I never get
(01:22):
one.
So I put the word out there andI did get a lovely cake.
And I also got some beautifulflowers from a friend of mine.
And yeah, so I hate getting ayear older, but the gifts are
always nice.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
Happy birthday.
And I've got to say, I didn'tget you anything.
Those flowers were not from me.
I actually had a birthday a fewweeks before you.
I'm Aries, Kirsty's Gemini.
Oh, no, you're not.
You're Taurus, aren't you?
You have to do something.
Taurus, just in case anybody'sasking.
I actually spent my birthdaygetting the on two flights with
Qatar Airways to Tunisia.
And can I say, no, I did not geta business class upgrade for my
(01:53):
special day.
Indeed, Qatar, if you'relistening, I can fly next 13th
of April.
When we got back, I got a fewlittle prezzies from the family.
One of them we've been having abig discussion about was
actually a Vacuum cleaner?
Not just any vacuum cleaner.
It was one of those automatedones.
But here's the clincher, right?
Because I was like, oh my gosh,I'm getting cleaning products
for my birthday.
(02:13):
Kirsty was like, what?
My husband wouldn't be game todo that.
But it is one of those automatedones.
And it mops as well as vacuum.
So I've actually mopped,vacuumed and mopped the floors.
And I've got two big dogs.
So there's a lot of vacuumingand a lot of mopping going on in
my life.
I'm liking it.
I'm coming around to it.
At first I was like, are youperverse?
(02:34):
You bought me a vacuum cleanerfor my porch?
Far out, mate.
But I did just set it and gowhile I was writing this
morning.
Okay, all right.
I'm coming around.
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Look, I like the idea of being bought a vacuum
cleaner and a mop, but not formy birthday.
I know.
But look, anyway, you're right.
Having something justautomated...
And doing the job for you isvery nice.
Although, yeah, I make myhusband do vacuuming and
mopping, so there you go.
Anyway, moving on to otherthings.
(03:06):
So interestingly, a heap ofstudies have been coming out
lately showing that travelersare increasingly concerned about
making an impact when theytravel.
Bella and I actually often talkabout this, don't we?
Because we talk about it betweenourselves and about whether
people are actually consciouslytraveling.
booking travel based on this.
So we often talk about, dopeople actually really go into a
(03:28):
travel advisor or when they'relooking to book, are they
actively looking, oh, hey, wherecan I make a difference in the
world?
And you would think that giventhe number of companies who are
investing in travel that givesback to communities, that
actually it must be the casebecause there are a lot of
organizations that are doingamazing things like G Adventures
and Adventure Intrepid andAdventure World.
SPEAKER_01 (03:52):
That is true.
I reckon, though, I reckon thatwe unconsciously undertake a lot
of those travel for goodinitiatives because if we're
searching for authentic travelexperiences, then it just
becomes part of the parcel, likestaying in small family-run
hotels as opposed to the bigchains or eating at local
restaurants instead of amultinational fast food outlet.
(04:15):
As you mentioned, Intrepid,which I've worked a lot with
over many years on their guidedtours, they incorporate at least
one meal in a family home on itstour.
In the past, like I was inTurkey about 18 months ago with
them, we had lunch with a womanand her daughter in Istanbul and
then again in Cappadocia down insouthern Turkey.
(04:36):
It's a massive tourist hubbecause everybody goes there for
that perfect ballooningexperience over the cave cities
and stuff.
But when we went in to havelunch or dinner with this
family, The mother who'd cookedeverything, prepared for about
10 of us, said she'd actuallyput her two girls through
university.
And they were things likeengineers and doctors.
And she paid for that out of themoney that she earned from
(04:57):
cooking for Intrepid.
And this is in a country thatonly 30% of women have any
participation in the paidworkforce.
Traditionally, traditionalvalues, you stay at home and
stuff like that.
But not everybody has.
a husband there to earn forthem.
And so it's quite interesting.
Sometimes you think, you don'teven think that you're doing
travel for good, but when you'rechoosing those sorts of
experiences, you are getting amore local feel to the tour
(05:20):
rather than just being hoardingtourist traps and big gold shiny
stars for you.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:25):
And if you scoot on back to episode 86, actually, we
spoke to Abercrombie& KentPhilanthropy, which Keith
Rowell, who actually runs thewhole philanthropy arm there.
And he was talking about someincredible initiatives they're
doing.
There's women who they set upbike shops for and they have
sold more than 8,000 bikes intheir local communities.
(05:46):
And then as a tourist, you cango along to these bike shops and
see what these incredibleentrepreneurial women are doing,
which is sustaining theirlivelihood and being able to
send their kids to school.
And it's all across Africa andthe Middle East.
And also they, by going alongand actually visiting them and
you can go out and with ANK onactually they've got 55
(06:07):
philanthropy projects across 24countries but you can go out and
actually by going and doing thateven just because you happen to
be staying in one of theirproperties or the properties
associated with them that theyoffer you are giving back to the
community and This is the thingthat makes such a big
difference.
We also spoke to Bruce Prentipabout this because he's the
(06:28):
founder of G Adventures and amassive advocate, obviously, for
giving back to community aswell.
And if you've gone back to theSun Series 4, way back in our
early days, yeah, he has someincredible projects he talks
about too.
But it's also about this wholetopic.
It's such a broad topic.
And it's also about going toplaces where they're investing
back into the environment.
(06:48):
So There's an amazing example ofthis, and I'm going here in July
to Cambodia.
There's a property calledSongsa, which is founded by a
woman called Melita Kulmandis.
Now, she was in Cambodia withher boyfriend at the time, and
she went to this island andsubsequently was offered the
island and bought it for 15,000US, which she took back in a
(07:10):
brown paper bag across from themainland back to the island to
pay for this island.
And at the time the island wasdecimated, there were like 50
fishing boats parking out, justcompletely decimating the marine
population.
And her efforts in collaborationwith local chiefs actually
formed Cambodia's firstprotected marine park.
That just blows my mind.
And as a traveler, you mightjust go there because it's such
(07:33):
an exceptional property andoutstanding property.
And like you said, Belle,without even really, not
actively even probably realisingit, it's just the authenticity
of the destination.
But by participating andactually going there and going
snorkelling and paying to gosnorkelling, your funds are
going back to preserving thatenvironment that she's now
created, which is now a marinepark, which was, like I said,
(07:56):
just decimated.
So it's really remarkable howthe extent of what we can do as
travellers.
SPEAKER_01 (08:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's a phenomenal point.
I think it's absolutelyphenomenal.
And that's one person doingthat.
Some of the research around thishas been undertaken by
Booking.com, which released itssustainable travel research
recently, finding that there's agrowing awareness of both the
social and cultural impacts oftravel.
So this is actually the 10thedition where they've explored
consumer attitudes andintentions about the social and
(08:26):
ecological impacts of travel.
travel and they surveyed 32,000travellers in 34 countries,
which included 1,000 people fromAustralia.
SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
Yeah, and when they did one back in 2016, this is
quite interesting, 40% ofAussies said believes that they
did travel sustainably, but by2025, that was up to 91%.
And who said that they wanted tomake more sustainable choices?
We obviously are more consciousabout it and wanting to do it.
And I certainly know I am.
It's absolutely something I dothink about before I travel or
(09:00):
when I make my travelarrangements.
But yeah, whether or not themajority do, that was always
debatable.
But all of these stats areshowing that there is a massive
shift and awareness andpreferences and priorities when
it comes to actually wanting tomake a more positive impact when
you travel.
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
Yeah, and the research also found that for the
first time, more than half theAustralians surveyed are
conscious of travel's impact oncommunities as well as the
environment.
So think about the conversationswe've had about whether or not
to cruise into Venice and 67%now said they want to leave
places better than when theyarrived.
talk about things likeprotecting Antarctica or not
(09:38):
influencing a community with allof your negatives, bringing
sugary treats into remotecommunities, that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (09:46):
And there was actually more research as well.
So another recent study byVirtuoso, which is a leading
global network of 20,000 traveladvisors, that found that 68% of
travellers say recent globalevents have inspired them to
want to travel more responsibly.
And it also found 62% of luxurytravellers surveyed said that
(10:06):
sustainable travel does enhancetheir travel experience.
And that's back to what we weresaying about that being hand in
hand with an authenticexperience and feeling like
you're really immersing yourselfin the community and giving back
and all of that.
So that was a rise on 44% fromlast year and 59% remain willing
to spend more on responsibletravel.
So they're looking at actuallyhappy to fork out a bit more.
SPEAKER_01 (10:29):
If they know where those funds, if they know those
funds are being used forresponsible travel.
So when asked what actions theywould potentially take to curb
over tourism, 32% they'rewilling to travel to
alternative, less exploreddestinations.
So we're thinking instead ofSantorini, going to Paros or
somewhere like that, or one ofthe less known Greek isles.
And 26% would visit a populardestination off-peak, such as
(10:54):
giving Europe a miss in highsummer.
Destination for expert guidanceon sustainable travel is also
growing.
So 25% of travellers say they'remore likely to travel
responsibly with support from atrusted advisor up from 16% last
year.
SPEAKER_00 (11:08):
Yeah.
And again, that just all provesthe power of talking to a travel
advisor you trust because theyknow how to guide you best to
make sure that you can have anexperience that You know, that
certainly gives back to thecommunities and also to the
environment.
And clearly, from what we'vesaid, that seems to be what
everyone wants.
So we'll put a link in the shownotes for some great tips, too,
(11:30):
of ways that you can travel forgood.
This week, I'm chatting toaward-winning freelance food
travel and lifestyle journalistNatasha Mirosh, who has swapped
the sunny shores of Brisbane tomove temporarily to a tiny
(11:52):
village south of Rome.
We chat about why she did it,what there is to see and do in
the region where she's livingnow, and how you can do it too.
Welcome to the show, Natasha.
Thank you for having me.
It's so great to have you on TheWorld Awakes.
Tell us, we'll just start bytelling us a little bit about
how you got into the travelindustry and what you're doing
now.
(12:13):
Look, I was in my 20s and I'dbeen living in London for about
four years at that stage.
I'd been back to Australia for acouple of months after the sort
of the typical two years, but Ijust couldn't settle.
So I'd come back.
I'd always really loved writing.
And so I started doing a nightcourse in journalism at a local
college in London with the ideaof going on eventually to uni to
(12:34):
study journalism.
And I received a letter from afriend who'd returned home.
It was kind of a long essayreally about the joy of coming
back to Australia after livingin Europe for a couple of years.
And it was really good.
I really enjoyed reading it.
I suggested he turned it into atravel article and that I'd
submit it to a travelpublication in London that was
(12:56):
aimed specifically at Australiantravellers.
So he did.
He wrote it.
And I wrote a sort ofcontrasting version about how
difficult I'd found it to settlein.
You know, I wasn't ready to goback to Australia at that stage.
And there were things that Ifound really strange.
And I sent them both off, faxedthem actually at that stage,
that shows you how old I am, tothe publication.
(13:19):
And a couple of weeks later, tomy great surprise, I picked up,
it was a free publication thatyou would get from the train
stations.
And I picked it up and there wasmy article published in it.
Not his, just mine.
And a couple of days later, Igot a check in the post for 45
pounds.
And so I was just like, my God,you can make money doing this.
(13:43):
So I started doing temporaryadmin jobs.
And between those temping jobs,I would travel and then I'd
write about it and submit it todifferent publications.
And I picked up a couple ofregular columns in newspapers
and magazines.
And that was it really.
It was, that was it really.
It was 10 years before Irestarted and actually finished
(14:06):
that degree.
and got a staff job on anewspaper.
So I kind of did it allbackwards to the way most people
do it.
I started freelancing and thengot a staff job rather than the
way people do it usually, whichis the other way around.
So that was it.
Absolutely.
It is normally the other wayaround.
And here you are still doing itand highly successfully.
And because it's such a remoterole, you're able to do it from
(14:31):
anywhere.
And so you tell us, you have totell us what made you want to
pack up And moved to Italy.
Well, the long version is I'vealways been drawn to Italy ever
since I was a child.
It was kind of the first foreignculture that I'd been exposed to
because my mother's twin sisterhad married a Florentine.
(14:52):
And every couple of years, sheand my uncle and my cousins
would come to Australia to visitus.
And I just thought they were themost glamorous beings ever.
You know, they were just so,they just came in with this
European feel about them and Iloved the sound of the language.
So when I was 21, I went toFlorence to stay with my aunt
(15:14):
and my cousins and I did a monthof language school there.
And I stayed for a few monthsdoing nannying and I really,
really loved it.
Later though, when I moved toLondon, I met an Italian who, he
didn't speak much English atthat time.
And we got together and we movedin together and we frequently
visited Italy, either seeing hisfamily or mine.
(15:37):
After we broke up, after fiveyears or so, I came back to
Australia, but I still lovedItaly and I continued visiting
regularly, including in timewith my husband, who also fell
in love with Italy.
Then late last year, one of mybrother's old girlfriends from,
you know, 30 years agoreconnected with me and we
(15:57):
started to hang out a bit.
And it turns out that she hadmarried and divorced an Italian
and had an apartment in avillage in Italy.
She doesn't rent it out topeople.
She only lets people, friendsand family stay in it.
They're all kind of regulationsabout if you rent it out to a
(16:17):
local person, basically you cannever get rid of them.
They're there for life.
So she doesn't do that.
She comes and stays for a coupleof months every year and the
rest of the time she just letspeople she knows stay here.
And she offered it to us.
And of course, I accepted.
My husband was fortunately hadquite a lot of long service
leave.
So he took a couple of monthslong service leave.
(16:40):
And coincidentally, happily, I'mcurrently doing my master's
dissertation on an Italian foodsubject.
So it seemed like everythingjust came together and it was
the perfect time to immersemyself in Italian culture.
Amazing.
So you didn't have any otherresponsibilities at home that
you had to deal with?
animals and no no sadly our dogwas very elderly had lived a
(17:03):
lovely life had passed on and myson has now moved out of home so
we actually got got a friend'sdaughter to come and house sit
for us so she's enjoying thatshe's at uni and so yeah we had
we had no reason to not do it Ohmy gosh, I just cannot wait to
get to that stage where mychildren have moved out of home
and I can do it too.
(17:23):
So tell us a bit first of allabout the region of exactly
where you are and a bit aboutwhat you've been doing and what
there is to do there.
Yeah, I'm in Lazio, which isRome, of course, is the capital
of that region.
We're living in a very small,very old village that was, it's
very historic.
It was once enclosed by wallsand there's the remains of a
(17:45):
castle at the top.
The apartment we're in, it's atthe highest point.
It's a pedestrian only area.
So you have to leave your carsort of halfway down.
Not that we have a car, butyeah, you can't drive here.
It's very typical withcobblestone lanes and it's very
pretty, but it's, you know, it'sa typical village.
(18:05):
People live here.
It's not a tourist village.
It's very close to the coast.
So I'm sitting out on theterrace at the moment and I can
look out over the plain andthere's a lake.
in front of us.
And beyond that, there is thesea.
It's just about an hour by trainto both Rome and Naples.
So we're between both.
So we do day trips there.
(18:27):
Rome is a bit crazy at themoment, as you can imagine.
So we've been avoiding that, butwe had a great day trip to
Naples where we did a food tourrecently, which was just
fabulous.
There's not so much to do in thevillage itself.
It's very quiet.
But there are lots ofinteresting little towns that
are just a bus or a train rideaway.
We went to one the other day,full of ancient ruins and, you
(18:50):
know, this incredible templethat we just wandered around
completely on our own.
It's just incredible.
But that's what you want, right?
If you were staying, like if youwere going to, if I was going to
go and stay, I want to find aremote little village where I
can sort of integrate with thelocal culture and just, yeah,
live like a local.
I mean, that's such a remarkableexperience.
(19:11):
That's exactly what it is.
And it's, you know, there arenegatives to that as well.
But, you know, generally, if youwant that authentic experience,
and I hate the word authentic,but you know what I mean, that's
what you need to do rather thanstaying in those tourist areas.
We just spent a long weekend onthe most beautiful island called
Ponza, which we can actually seefrom here.
It's just off the coast.
(19:32):
And it's a place where reallyonly Neapolitan and Roman
families go.
I mean, we didn't hear...
any English at all.
In fact, we have not heard anyEnglish since we've been here
apart from when we visited Rome,you know.
And around the village itself,there are plenty of walks.
We've got mountains behind usand there's one of Europe's last
(19:55):
remaining cork forests, which isnot very far away.
Yeah.
And apart from Rome, this regionreally doesn't get a lot of
attention from tourists.
So as I said, we haven't met anyEnglish speakers at all, really.
Remarkable.
So what have you been doingabout, you know, how have you
been integrating into the localcommunity and tell us a bit
(20:16):
about some of the local peopleand, you know, have you met the
local characters?
We have, and I was very luckythat my friend who owns the
apartment has given us a writtenload of some of the villagers.
though we were prepared.
She pointed out the hierarchy.
For example, there's a group ofmatriarchs here and we need to
(20:37):
be particularly diplomatic withwho we speak to and what we tell
them and, you know, what kind ofrespect we give to which people.
You do see the same faces a lotand we don't know everybody's
names, but now they greet us.
They've seen us around and theyknow that we're the Australiani.
(20:58):
There's a group of old men whodo a walk around the perimeter
of the village every afternoonwho we usually chat to because
we try to do the same.
There's the church bells justgone.
Then there's Daniele who ownsthe only bar in the old town.
It's just almost just below us,which is very dangerous because
they do excellent cornetti,which are like a croissant
(21:19):
filled with cream or pistachiocream, which they do for
breakfast.
I've joined the local libraryand I'm on a WhatsApp group of
the local fruiter, fruiter afarmer, who sends daily messages
and photos of what he's got infresh, which is very cool.
And a couple of days ago on thelittle community bus, an old guy
tried to sell me a bag ofchigoria, which is like a bitter
(21:42):
herb that he'd foraged in thehills.
It was like he was doing a drugdeal with me, but I actually
can't stand this stuff, so Ididn't buy it.
That's hilarious.
So tell us a bit about what havebeen some of the biggest
challenges of making, you know,making this move.
Honestly, it's been pretty easy.
The biggest challenge is thestairs.
(22:04):
There are just so many stairshere.
And pretty much anywhere aroundthis area.
We don't have a car, so we haveto walk down to the plane, to
the flat, to the supermarket, orif we want to go to the train
station to get anywhere.
There is a little community busthat comes up and down, but it's
very erratic and seems to have avery long lunch break, like many
(22:27):
things in Italy.
So you can't always rely on it.
The other challenge is that foran introvert like me, we have to
make the first move really increating relationships.
So everyone's like superfriendly, but when they realize,
especially when they realizethat we can speak Italian, but
they don't tend to approach usfirst or ask us questions.
(22:50):
So we have to make the firstmove.
And then there's been a coupleof lingual difficulties, not too
many, but there was a very longand very complex conversation
that I had about the rubbishcollection which with the senora
who lives downstairs because therubbish collection here is very
complicated it's six days a weekand on each day is a different
(23:13):
different type of rubbish andthere is one particular rubbish
bin that we didn't realize wasonly for one specific reason and
it has a barcode and this is allthe rubbish that you that
doesn't go in the recycling soyou've got plastics you've got
glasses on glass on one dayyou've got metal on another day
paper on another day and thenyou've got this one which is
(23:33):
called indiferenza which iseverything else that can't be
recycled and it has a barcode onthe side and apparently the
rubbish man scans that barcodebecause you only get a certain
number of those collectionsincluded and then you have to
pay for them after then soeverybody's very protective over
their indiferenza bin and wewere just pity of the bin so
(23:54):
that took quite a bit for me tounderstand So unlike at home
here where we just all run outand load up the neighbour's bins
whenever we, whenever on rubbishday we're running down the
street trying to fill up theneighbour's bins, you wouldn't
be doing that then.
And what about, what have beensome of the nicest surprises
since you've been there?
Look, I think the biggestsurprise has been how easy it's
(24:16):
been to adapt.
It already feels like home.
It's, you know, it's sodifferent to the short visits
that we've done in the past.
And I think part of that is notjust the length of time that
we're here, but where we are.
You know, we're really off thebeaten track here.
Like most people that I've metoutside of the village, if I
(24:38):
tell them where we're living,have no idea where it is.
Italians I'm talking about.
So, you know, it's not awell-known place.
So we're really having to reallyimmerse ourselves in the
day-to-day life of, you know,Italians without all the helpful
information.
that you normally get as atourist.
(24:59):
So it's much more complex tonavigate, but a lot more fun.
And if someone was going tovisit there, like as a
traveller, rather thancompletely moving there, would
you, I mean, and they wanted tostay in somewhere like where you
are, which would give them areally true, like we hate, I
also hate the word authentic,but a really genuine sort of
(25:21):
immersion into the localculture.
Are there places that you canstay or would you be hiring a
house or doing an Airbnb orsomething?
I think you'd probably be doingan Airbnb, you know, unless
you're, I'm so fortunate to havesomebody.
But, you know, there are lots oflittle Airbnbs and places in
(25:41):
these towns that aren'tnecessarily on the tourist track
that are not horrendouslyexpensive.
So there is plenty ofopportunity.
But what I would say is that ifyou're going to do this, that
you should hit the Duolingomaybe.
I already spoke some Italian,but my husband did Duolingo
lessons online for months beforewe came here.
(26:02):
And he says that it's given himsuch a different experience from
our other trips because peoplejust open up to you so much when
you speak their language.
You know, when we go up tosomebody and introduce
ourselves, for example, youknow, they immediately smile and
they just start talking to us,you know, like we're Italians
(26:23):
and, you know, they're very,very friendly.
I think it would be quitedifficult to navigate without
any Italian, though, of course,it's much easier these days with
Google Translate and other appslike that.
And what are some of the othertips for people who actually did
want to do exactly what you'redoing, like me?
And, you know, and what would besome tips for what, you know,
(26:47):
how do you do it?
I mean, if you don't have, likeyou say, if you don't have
unfortunate enough to knowsomeone to get a house or, and
just generally, what were someof the things that you wish
you'd known before you did it?
Well, I would say that One thingthat you can do is to do a house
swap with somebody.
(27:08):
And often those house swaps tendto be in regions like this.
I have a friend who manages theAustralian kind of branch of a
house swapping association, andshe spends months every year in
different places swappinghouses.
And I said to her once, youknow, really, do people want to
come and stay in suburbanBrisbane?
(27:28):
I love my city, but, you know,it's not exactly a touristy kind
of place.
And she said, yeah, absolutely.
So there is always that optionto join a reputable house
swapping.
But there are also lots ofgroups that you can join,
Facebook groups, you know, for,I absolutely love the word
expats, but, you know, that canhelp you find somewhere to stay.
(27:51):
Doing a course like I did when Ifirst came to Italy all those
years ago is always a goodoption.
There are lots of languagecourses and it just gives you
that introduction to not justthe language, but to meet other
people and to make thoseconnections locally, I guess.
And so on a day-to-day basis, Imean, are you going to be doing
(28:14):
a lot more sort of trips out oris it mostly day trips and what
are you both doing on aday-to-day basis?
I'm still working so I'm writingtravel stories.
I have some trips planned sowe're going to Austria and we're
going to Slovakia.
My husband and I worked out thatwe've been to every region in
(28:38):
Italy apart from Calabria so weare meeting some English friends
and going to Calabria.
in June for a couple of days,which will be fun.
We're actually going to hire acar that time and drive down the
coast and back up the coastagain.
On a day-to-day basis, we try todo a couple of day trips every
day.
So I'm here to work.
(28:59):
I'm working on my dissertationand I'm working on my travel
stories.
So I put aside a bit of timeevery day to do that.
Sometimes I'll go to thelibrary.
Sometimes I'll just sit out onthe terrace in the sun and do my
work.
My husband's been making littleexcursions by himself, so
jumping on the train.
Like yesterday, he went toFormia, which is a coastal town
(29:19):
not far from here.
And the rest of the time, we'rejust kind of living like we
would at home, you know, doingour washing and hanging out the
laundry and, you know, doinghome chores and going to the
supermarket and cooking ourmeals.
UNKNOWN (29:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
Are you pleased that you made the move?
Like, is it something that youthink, you know, are you pleased
that you did it?
I'm so happy I did it.
I mean, it's like sort of goingback in time for me to my 20s
when I did it the first time.
And strangely enough, it was thesame period of time that I did
(29:58):
it back then in my 20s, the samemonths.
We arrived at a great timebecause it was just before
Easter.
And so, and they have a verytraditional Easter procession
here, which was fantastic.
We turned up at the church andall of the villages were dressed
up either in ancient Romangladiator type costumes, soldier
(30:21):
costumes, or they were dressedup as, you know, in headscarves
and robes, et cetera, andsmoking outside the church.
while waiting for the processionto come up from the road below
along the alleyways and into thechurch where they did this big
sort of, I guess it's thepassion play.
I'm not Catholic or even vaguelyreligious, so I'm not really
(30:44):
sure.
But it was a lot of fun and allof the villagers seemed to get
involved.
They were all dressed up.
And then we've had, yesterdaywas a May Day holiday here.
We've had, what else have we hadhere?
Oh, the...
The village sausage festival wason a week or so after we got
here, which was lots of fun.
(31:06):
It's a very traditional sausagethat they make here with, I
think with fennel seeds.
And then they serve it with thisherb that they call broccoli,
but it's actually like a wildbroccoli leaves and they stuck
it into a crunchy baguette type.
bum.
And so they're all kind ofstalls set up and fireworks.
And yeah, it was really fun.
(31:27):
So we've arrived at such a greattime.
And of course, it's spring andthere are just all around us are
just verges with flowers growingwild everywhere.
The weather is just perfect.
It's been about 18 to 20everyday blue skies, sunshine,
I'm already ridiculously brownjust from sitting out on the
(31:48):
terrace doing my work because wedon't burn like we do in
Australia.
So, yeah, I'm really very happythat I did it.
And in fact, I get a bit of asinking feeling in my stomach
when I think about going home.
Oh, that's so nice.
And yes, I can imagine I wouldfeel the same.
What an incredible experience.
(32:09):
And to be so somewhere that is,you know, not too far from the
main cities, but still so quietand a little, you know, village
where you could really immerseyourself amongst that culture
must just be such an incredibleexperience.
UNKNOWN (32:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:26):
Yeah, look, it really is.
And it's interesting that, youknow, a lot of these villages
are dying out in Italy.
You know, young people aremoving away.
But this village seems to beparticularly dynamic.
And I think it's because of thisgroup of matriarchs that, you
know, keep it so like this.
It's decorated all the time.
So they have at the moment, it'sall decorated in spring, spring
(32:47):
colors.
And there's paper flowershanging from things all over the
alleyways.
And People have got buckets offlowers out and paintings on
their walls.
And then come summer, that willchange.
And then during the Christmasperiod, again, it's all
decorated, lights andeverything.
So they're very dynamic.
(33:07):
And it's great to see that thereare a few young children in the
village as well.
There are a lot of old people, alot of old people.
And I watch them, some of themwith walking sticks and think,
wow, how do you cope with this?
village with all these stairs,slippery surfaces, etc.
But, you know, they love it andthey don't want to move anywhere
else.
And it's a really great vibeliving here.
(33:30):
And it's a lot of the reasonwhy, you know, everyone talks
about the blue zones.
And when we were in Sardinialast year, they were saying a
lot of the reason a lot of thesepeople are living so long and
such healthy lives is becauseYeah, they are doing, they're
out, they're out, they are outand about.
They have no option but to be.
So that certainly helped withlongevity.
(33:51):
Oh, look, it just sounds like aremarkable experience.
And yeah, I'm sure that therewould be lots of people wanting
to follow in your footsteps andwho will be listening, just
wishing that it was them thatwere doing it.
So if someone was going to justcome and visit, what's one thing
to that very area?
What's one thing that you thinkthey should definitely make sure
they do?
(34:12):
Look, I would say to visit thePonteen Islands.
They are very, very undervisitedby tourists.
I've been twice and they're justabsolutely idyllic, unspoiled.
Imagine Capri, but without anyof the pretension or prices.
And, you know, there are very,very few tourists there.
(34:33):
It's just the color of thewater, the geology of these
volcanic islands, the peace andquiet where we were staying, you
know, the We would be woken upin the morning either by the
church bells or, oh, there's onegoing right now in our village,
or roosters.
You know, it was just so, it'sjust so peaceful.
And, you know, going out on aboat and being able to jump into
(34:57):
this water that's just so clearor swim through caves, it's
incredible.
So don't miss the FontaineIslands.
Amazing what great advice ohlook it's been so great chatting
with you and I could talk aboutit for hours but we are running
out of time so I'm going to askyou the question that we ask all
of our interviewees our lastquestion which is what's the
(35:17):
most bizarre thing that's everhappened to you on your travels?
Well it's not a bizarreexperience but it's certainly a
life-changing one.
I was on an assignment on aGreek island and after I
finished doing that particularassignment, I decided to extend
my stay.
And I went and I found somewhereon the beach, it was like this
(35:37):
Taverna Apartments to stay at.
The owner's son and I were doinga little bit of heavy flirting
while I was there, but nothinghappened.
And we said goodbye on the daythat I was due to leave.
And his dad dropped me at theairport, which is a very small
military airport that has aflight to Athens once a week.
(36:00):
So I sat there waiting for myflight and then this
announcement came saying thatbecause of the weather, the
flight was cancelled andbasically come back next week.
So I had to go back to thevillage and back to the taverna.
I caught a lift with somebody atthe airport and turned up again
and said, here I am.
Do you mind if I stay anotherweek?
(36:21):
So I stayed there for anotherweek.
And during that week, Theo and Ihad a romantic liaison.
And despite that, proportions, Igot pregnant and my son is now
25 years old.
So that was probably the bestsouvenir I ever brought back
with me on a trip.
(36:43):
I love that.
It's been so great chatting withyou and thank you so much for
your time.
And we will put a link to your,you know, your Instagram and
people can follow you and watchthe amazing things that you were
doing.
SPEAKER_01 (36:57):
Thanks for having me.
Oh, how insanely jealous we are.
And there's some great tipsthere too from Natasha about how
you can follow in her footsteps.
And you can follow her onInstagram at Natasha Mirosh.
And we'll put a link in the shownotes as well.
And we'll spell her nameN-A-T-A-S-C-H-A Mirosh,
M-I-R-O-S-C-H.
(37:30):
Mother's Day is just days awayand our tip this week is about
what to do for yourtravel-loving mum.
That's me, so I'm hoping myfamily listens.
Or if you just want to spoilyourself this Mother's Day,
starting with a new concept, Ilove it so much, created by IHG
Hotels and Resorts called, waitfor the acronym, NOMO, which
stands for Night On My Own.
(37:50):
And you know how I do love agood acronym, Kirsty.
SPEAKER_00 (37:54):
Yes, you do.
I love it.
Awesome.
I love it.
Yeah, so basically IHG hasrevealed some new research
showing that 61% of us, Ithought it might even be higher
than that, crave alone time.
So that means we don't want anykids, partner pets, and no
housemates.
SPEAKER_01 (38:11):
Ah, could do without all the rat.
And to celebrate the no-moexperience, IHG Hotels and
Resorts is launching newpackages at more than 30
properties across Australia andNew Zealand until the end of
June, so June 30th.
So
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
in addition to things like breakfast in bed or
the glass of bubbles, It's alsooffering spa credit, unlimited
spa treatments, luxurious PJsand bubble bath kits.
And yeah, we will actually put alink in the show notes so you
can look at some of the ideasfor your mum.
But for something else, we havegot some other ideas too.
For something else that's maybea little less expensive and that
(38:46):
still shows a lot of love, Ilove that sort of personalised
gift.
So why not go and buy a photoframe and then frame your
favourite photo with mum,especially if it's a trip that
you did together somewherespecial or...
you know, that if you've got aphoto of yourself, but when you
travelled somewhere, maybe mummight like that too.
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
What a photo of you travelling without your mum.
Hey, mum, here's you, Barry.
Which you never got to becauseyou could...
I don't know.
What I do is electronic photoframes.
I think they're just gorgeous.
But to be honest, on those IHGpackages, I think the 4pm
checkout is the bit that had mejumping for joy, as well as a
breakfast in bed, because thereis nothing truly more luxurious
(39:25):
than having a really good cup oftea in bed that you didn't have
to make yourself and walk backup to bed in.
Or you could buy something thatreflects your mum's favourite
place in the world, or cook hera meal from a place she loves,
maybe a bit of Italian, or breakout the sushi, possibly even a
bottle of wine from a place thatshe has been and adores.
SPEAKER_00 (39:43):
Yes, I love that.
And I challenged my family totry and find a bottle of the
Sardinian wine that I snuck backin the luggage when we came back
last year.
In fact, I had spread them out,one in the son's luggage, one in
mine.
And you cannot buy it here.
But no, to be honest, I wouldjust be happy with a nice
Italian feast with ensuring thatthe teens actually stayed home
(40:07):
and had a nice dinner with us.
SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
Yeah, that's very cute.
But if you were going on a wineadventure, you could get an
immersive exploration at VoyagerEstate in the Margaret River.
So before you even arrive at theestate, you get a dedicated wine
guide who gets your mum in touchto cover wine interests,
passions and preferences.
And so you've got a completelytailored visit.
So it could, to do things likehaving a hands-on Chardonnay
(40:30):
masterclass or a verticalcabaret tasting, a cabaret, I
don't want to say cabaret.
I was like, yeah, I'm out forthe cabaret.
Cabaret! Cabernet tasting,right?
Cabaret, more Cabernet.
SPEAKER_00 (40:42):
Yeah, and imagine getting a phone call by a wine
guide before you travel there sothey can help you bespoke your
experience.
How cool would that be?
And another idea would be somereally nice travel size shampoo
and conditioner or lip balm ormoisturizer.
You can never get too much ofthat.
Actually, you always tell me toget, to take lip balm and I
always forget.
And then when I, the few timesyou've told me in a warmer, very
(41:03):
warm climate, like especiallyhiking and even hiking because
of wind and stuff.
Yeah, it definitely makes a bigdifference.
Also, what about a monogrammedwater bottle?
I was given one, actually, at anevent I went to, and I love it.
Like, how nice is that, havingyour name monogrammed on a water
bottle?
Or you could get her monogrammedluggage tag.
Or how about just buy your mum,and you can use it for yourself
(41:27):
or buy one for yourself, ahammock so you can recreate
holidays at home.
SPEAKER_01 (41:32):
But I only spilled my tea in the hammock, so it's
never going to work for me.
I like the idea of hammocks.
I never have the right place tostick them.
But I do travel-sized shampoo.
And yes, lip balm with SPF in itis always a given in my bag when
I'm traveling.
And because we're both booklovers, how about Lonely
Planet's newest guide, WomenTravel Solo, which is full of
(41:54):
travel tips for those who wantto travel solo.
Another massive trend at themoment.
And that brings us back to thenomo, right?
The night on my own.
So you knew I'd have to put thatin there some way, Kirsty.
UNKNOWN (42:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:05):
I knew you'd bring her back.
I knew you'd bring her back.
Yes, I did.
If you'd like to help supportour production costs, you can
buy us a coffee at coffee.comslash theworldawaits.
That's ko-fi.com slashtheworldawaits so we can
continue to bring youinspirational travel interviews
(42:26):
with the world's best.
If you enjoyed this episode,please give us a rating and
review on Apple Podcasts.
Click on our profile, scroll tothe bottom to ratings and
reviews.
And if you're on Spotify, go toour main page and click the
three dots underneath our photoor simply drop a a line at hello
at theworldawaits.au.
We love nothing more thanhearing from our listeners.
(42:46):
That's a
SPEAKER_01 (42:46):
wrap for The World Awaits this week.
Click to subscribe anywhere youlisten to your favourite pods.
SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
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