"Southern Africa is very hard to describe; for many people, you get bitten by something, or you breathe something in, and you become hooked," says Australian author Tony Park.
Speaking to us from his home just north of Kruger National Park in South Africa, Tony shares his vast experience about going on safari in southern and east Africa. From the Kruger to the Kalahari, we're taking self-drive safaris on a budget, which regions are better for different wildlife and wildlife poaching.
"The best way to tackle poaching is to uplift the communities and the people, who feel that their only option is to turn to wildlife crime," he says. "So the best thing for wildlife is to visit Africa."
Tony has published 22 novels set in southern Africa; his 23rd, Die by the Sword, is out at the end of July, and like all his novels, it has a strong environmental and wildlife conservation angle. See tonypark.net
Also, what's new on the slopes for the Australian ski season? From lifts to going cashless. Visit perisher.com, thredbo.com.au, charlottepass.com.au and perisher.com.au
And find out which of the Avani Tribes you belong to, and then match your destination to your personality type at https://tribes.avanihotels.com.
This mini-series is brought to you by Avani Hotels & Resorts. With more than 40 properties across five continents, Avani offers city hotels, tropical resorts and retreats in nature. For more, visit avanihotels.com
Tony’s picks:
For a great, all-inclusive luxury safari experience in South Africa, check out the Sabi Sabi collection of lodges in South Africa's Sabi Sand Game Reserve: sabisabi.com
A bit cheaper, but in a great game viewing area inside the Kruger National Park is Imbali Game Reserve (and also check out its neighbouring, affiliate properties, Hamiltons and Hoyo Hoyo), imbali.com
If you’re game for a self-drive trip (which will save you loads), fly from Johannesburg’s OR Tambo Airport to Skukuza in the Kruger National Park and hire an Avis or Europcar rental car and stay in self-catering accommodation (there are also restaurants in most of Kruger’s rest camps), sanparks.org
For a get-away-from-it-all safari in an untouristy-park, check out Hwange National Park, close to Victoria Falls. These are good places: hideawaysafrica.com, robinscamp.com
In East Africa, Tony prefers the Serengeti in Tanzania to Kenya’s Masai Mara. Maasai Wanderings, owned by an Aussie woman does excellent mobile safaris, maasaiwanderings.com
Visit us at https://theworldawaits.au
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome to The World Awaits.
Travel tales to inspire yourwanderlust.
Welcome back to The WorldAwaits.
This mini-series is brought toyou by Avani Hotels and Resorts.
With more than 40 propertiesfrom five continents, Avani
offers city hotels, tropicalresorts and retreats in nature.
(00:21):
For more, visit avanihotels.com.
SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
Hi, everyone.
Gosh, the cold is well and trulykicked in Melbourne here at the
moment now that we're actuallyin June.
For those who are listening backon playback, hello.
But yes, it's great.
Whether it be head down writingand editing, given that's about
all I've done this week.
How about you, Belle?
I did do a
SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
pottery class in Finesford, which is a beautiful
little historic area justoutside Geelong with Elizabeth
Bell Ceramics.
If you don't know this area,it's home to Providence, one of
Australia's best value wineries,according to Halliday.
as well as a couple of cutelittle cafes and craft
workshops.
It's just magical in winter.
I was channeling my inner DemiMoore and made a nice vase, not
(01:00):
even an ashtray.
And if you're up for a turn ofthe wheel, she, Elizabeth, runs
pottery taster classes and evena unique taste on kids' birthday
parties.
So that's a great one to havedown in Geelong.
And I've been writing like ademon, very chuffed to have a
couple of pieces in theFinancial Review recently, one
about the Austrian composerStrauss, because as I've
mentioned on the show before,This is a great year if you're
(01:22):
planning to visit Vienna for allof the new museums and the
concerts underway.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
So good.
And speaking of destinationsthat are music to your soul, we
have a cute little quiz from oursponsors, Avani Hotels, which
was created so travellers canfind their tribe.
So how it works is you basicallylog on and you answer a few
questions and it comes up withthe ideal holiday just for you.
This is actually a fun one to
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
try.
So we took the quiz separately,no cheating, at the website
tribes.avanihotels.com.
And it asks you to choose yourdream travel experience from six
options, such as intrepidexploration, sunsets and
soulmates, mindful moments orculinary adventures.
And then you choose the trailsor the waves or the sky and an
(02:08):
emotive word.
And voila, it gives you your topspot to holiday.
SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
So I started by choosing Intrepid Explorer.
Me too.
And then it asks you if yourintrepid explorer is conquering
the trails, soaring the sky orriding the waves.
And of course, I chose thehiking option.
Me too.
And then it asks you how youwant to feel from your holiday.
And it gives you six options.
(02:33):
Do you want to feel relaxed,nourished?
And I chose inspired.
Me too.
So my choice was adventure.
And the destination it chose forme was Zambia.
SPEAKER_02 (02:45):
So actually, we're both going to Zambia, according
to this one, because you justcan't get rid of me, Kirsty.
I've got to say, Zambia is alsovery apt, given our interview
coming up shortly, which is allthings Southern Africa.
The quiz goes on to suggest adestination and an Avani
property, which means, in ourcase, Kirsty, we should be going
to the Avani Victoria FallsResort in Zambia.
The resort has stays from$300 anight and things like Zambian
(03:09):
village dining experiences andsundowner cruises on the
Victorian Falls, which would bejust amazing.
And lots
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
of hiking and trekking, which was my point.
Yes, I'm desperate to go thereand do that.
To test the quiz a little bitfurther, because we
unfortunately or fortunatelycame up with the same result.
I also chose mindful momentsholiday.
And then instead of yoga orlounging the spa, went for a
massage-oriented holiday, whichmakes you feel relaxed.
(03:38):
And the tribe was WellnessWanderer.
And it sent me to the coastaltown of Hua Hin, south of
Bangkok in Thailand.
And there, the Avani Plus HuaHin has packages from just$147 a
night.
And that includes an hour-longmassage.
with, get this, with pizza.
Who would have thought?
Pizza and massage,
SPEAKER_02 (03:57):
pretty nice, right?
So I gave the quiz another crackas well.
I chose Sidious Gates and askedfor a style adventure that makes
me feel passionate.
They were my three steps I wentthrough.
And that tribe is creatives.
And it sent me to Milan, wherethe Avani Palazzo Moscovo Milan
has so many fabulousexperiences, some of which we
(04:17):
talked about last week,including this one I really
loved, a guided vintage shoppingtrip.
And also choose on a Fiat 500.
So jump back to last week's appand take a listen.
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
And the point of it is really just to get you
thinking a bit more about thetype of traveler you are and
what experience might be bestfor you, this whole Avani
tribes.
And you never know, it mightjust throw you out of your
comfort zone a bit.
And that's where the magic oftravel really starts anyway.
So we'll put a link in the shownotes to help you find your
travel tribe.
SPEAKER_02 (04:47):
If you're enjoying this episode of The World
Awaits, why not find out whichof the Avani tribes you belong
to and then match yourdestination to your personality
type at tribes.avanihotel.com.
And for more about Avani Hotels,head to avanihotels.com.
(05:13):
This week, my guest isAustralian thriller author Tony
Park, who lives just north ofKruger National Park in South
Africa.
We're talking about safariexperiences in the southern
African countries, how to go onsafari without breaking the
bank, and also his 23rd novel,which is just about to hit the
streets.
Take a listen.
Welcome to The World Awaits.
(05:33):
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited to have you onthe podcast because I have been
reading your work for years.
So welcome onto the pod.
SPEAKER_00 (05:42):
Thanks so much, Bill.
It's really great to be here andthanks for the opportunity.
SPEAKER_02 (05:45):
Oh, absolutely.
Look, the pleasure is all minebecause I want to know
everything about what you do.
Firstly, how you became such aprolific author and living in
South Africa when you areclearly an Australian.
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
Yeah, and I'm an Aussie.
I'm living in South Africapretty much full time these
days.
So yeah, to make a long storyshort, my wife Nicola and I came
to South Africa, SouthernAfrica, South Africa, Zimbabwe
and Botswana in 1995 on what wassupposed to be a once in a
lifetime trip and turned out tobe anything but.
Because what happens here inAfrica, it's a sort of place
(06:22):
where it's very hard todescribe.
You come thinking, I'm justgoing to tick this off my bucket
list.
But for many people, somethinghappens.
You either get bitten bysomething or you breathe
something in or you drinksomething, I don't know.
But it's very easy to becomehooked on this continent.
Part of it's the wildlife, whichis a big attraction for many
people coming.
But it's also the way of lifeand the people and just the
(06:45):
whole vibe here.
And I think, no, I know for surethat by the end of that first
three-week holiday.
Possibly by the end of the firstweek, we'd already planned a
return visit and we came backevery year.
Since then, for the last 30years, with the exception of a
year I went to Afghanistan withthe Ami, which is another story,
but otherwise we've come toAfrica every year.
(07:05):
And of course we spent more timehere.
That first trip coincided withme doing what I had always
wanted to do since I was alittle kid.
And that was to write a book.
All I wanted to do in life wasto write a novel.
And I actually had left workaround that time with the grace
of my wife, Nicola.
She gave me six months to writea book.
(07:25):
And I wrote a book and I failed.
It never got published.
But on our third trip back toAfrica, I had another go.
And I wrote a book set on afictitious tour around Southern
Africa, which we were doing oncemore.
And I sent it to a publisher,Pam McMillan Australia.
And luckily enough, I gotpublished and they said, you can
write the Africa books.
And here I am, 22 novels laterand 10 biographies, still
(07:48):
writing the Africa books.
And I get to make a living outof it now, combining my two
loves, which are Africa andwriting.
SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
What a dream.
What an absolute dream.
And I'm sure that anybody who'sever wanted to write a novel is
going to be like, that's goingto be me.
Of course, let's gloss over theones that didn't make it.
So let's just leave those.
So you've got 22 novels in pre.
You've got a new one coming outsoon.
pretty much as we speak, haven'tyou?
So what's the name?
Because you were doing, that ispart of the big reveal on it.
(08:15):
And tell us a bit about thebook.
SPEAKER_00 (08:17):
Yeah, so the 23rd novel is called Die by the
Sword.
And that's dropping on July 29.
So it's a dual timelinethriller.
I've done one of those in thepast where part of the story is
set in contemporary SouthernAfrica, starts off on the beach
in Azulu, Natal, near where Icurrently spend some of my time,
and then moves to the historicbattlefields area of
(08:39):
KwaZulu-Natal South Africa.
And so the second part of thestory takes place in 1880 in the
aftermath of the Anglo-Zulu War.
So if anyone remembers that oldmovie Zulu, it's that period.
And also the contemporary, acontemporary look at what's
happening in South Africa todayin terms of conservation and
land issues in the country,which is a very big issue at the
moment as well.
SPEAKER_02 (08:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
I've read a number of yourbooks, including The Delta,
which I think I read going intolockdown and it just let me
escape.
for a little while the confinesof a Melbourne lockdown.
And that is an eco-thrillerthat's set in Botswana.
And most recently, the one thatI've just finished reading was
The Protector, which is allabout the illegal trade in
pangolins, those odd, scalylittle mammals, the world's most
(09:21):
trafficked animal for their usein traditional medicine.
What I love about the books isyour absolute detail, those tiny
roads, the local villages insouthern Africa.
So you've clearly been on a lotof safaris, haven't you?
SPEAKER_00 (09:34):
Yeah, if there's one thing that links all the books,
there is that environmentalangle.
And the trade in endangeredwildlife species is one of the
top five organized crimes in theworld.
So it's actually up there withdrugs and arms dealing and
people smuggling and things likethat.
So it's a huge problem.
One thing I like to point out inthe books is the good work
that's being done.
And you mentioned the protector.
(09:54):
And the lead character in TheProtector is a university
professor who's an expert onpangolins.
And in her spare time, she goesundercover with her gun and she
busts poaching rings.
Now, that might sound toofar-fetched to be possibly true,
but she's actually based on areal-life person.
So there's no shortage of goodwork being done here in
conservation.
As to the detail, yeah, I foundthat what worked for me,
(10:16):
particularly as an Australianwriting about someone else's
part of the world, was to do myresearch by not actually
researching, by just trackingtraveling and living.
So traveling is a really bigpart of my writing.
And I write my books onlocation.
So if the plot seems to weave alittle bit of characters go or
find themselves traveling allover Southern Africa, as happens
(10:36):
in The Protector, and I buy thesword in the new one, it's
because I happen to be on thatjourney literally at that time.
So as I travel, I look around, Ilisten, I try and pick up the
sights, sounds, smells ofwherever I am, what the wildlife
is doing and what the people aredoing and how they talk and
what's motivating them andwhat's important in their lives.
So that kind of traveling andwriting, just absorbing things
(10:59):
as you move around really workswell for me.
SPEAKER_02 (11:02):
And that is the skill of a great reporter.
And I'm going to use that wordadvisedly because you are
reporting on things that you'veseen.
You're a conduit for that.
And the detail is justastonishing.
Can I go into that conservationside?
Because it does have a, asyou're saying, it is a strong
thread through it.
When we as travellers aretravelling on safari, and I'm
(11:25):
going to pick your brains aboutbest places to go, times to the
Caesars and stuff like that, butjust about wildlife trafficking.
When we are travelling onsafari, how can we as travellers
help Because if you're going tosomething like the Protector, on
your website, you've actuallytalked about how you saw a
(11:47):
trafficking bust in that.
So you've really got hands-onexperience about it.
I feel quite distant from it.
Is there anything I can do tohelp pitch in on that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
You know, just by being there, by taking a
decision to travel to Africa,it's a huge continent and you've
got to pick where you want togo.
We'll talk about that, I guess,soon.
Tourism is a crucial part ofmost African countries'
economies.
And it's probably the best thingfor wildlife.
It's really simple, but reallycomplex.
Somewhere like the Kruger Parknear where I live is surrounded
(12:19):
by lots and lots of people,hundreds of thousands of people
who live a very basic existence,who live in poverty in some
cases.
Their main shot at a job is inAnd the tourism facilities that
they visit when they're runproperly will invest back into
local communities.
And the best way to tackle theproblem of poaching is to uplift
the communities and the peoplethat feel that their only option
(12:42):
is to turn to crime and to turnto wildlife crime.
Because right here is thismassive national park.
in their backyard, full ofanimals that people overseas
will pay illegally to get holdof, things like rhino horn and
elephant ivory and pangolinscales, which, as you say, are
used in medicine.
So just being here is good.
And if you're on holiday in anyAfrican country, a good
(13:04):
operator, a good tourismoperator, or even if you do your
own research, will point youtowards hopefully some project
in the community that's designedto do that.
And sometimes that can be assimple as making sure that local
kids get a chance to get intothe national park and actually
see wildlife and gain anappreciation for it.
And sure, some of thosecommunities need a helping hand
(13:24):
in terms of other things, suchas school books for schools,
such as clean water for thevillage, job opportunities.
Come along, be part of it.
And if you're minded to do that,you'll have no problem.
finding ways in which to helpand the best way to help i think
is to help give people a hand upand become more self-sufficient
self-sustainable i support avery good program called nourish
(13:46):
which is a little eco village onthe edge of the kruger park And
they do all of those things.
They educate kids.
They provide childminding so mumand dad can go to work.
Vegetable gardens.
They give support to grandmaswho are often left at home
looking after little kidsbecause both parents have to
work.
They do after-school Englishlanguage tuition to help kids
get a leg up at home.
Those sort of things arebuilding sustainability in
(14:08):
communities.
And as I said, giving people analternative to becoming
poachers.
SPEAKER_02 (14:14):
That is really interesting because I think
often people overlook the valueof tourism.
Like it's just seen as a asuperfluous thing that people
with money do.
You know, I'm going to go onsafari.
And I've got to say, every timeI've met somebody that goes on
safari, they're always bookinganother one.
So as you say, you get bittenonce and you never leave it go.
(14:35):
So that's really fascinating.
Are there any other largerprojects or conservation
projects that you work withyourself, aside from these like
nourish?
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
Yeah, I'm involved in a, I'm the patron of a
Perth-based charity calledPainted Dog Conservation, and
that's all about focusing onconserving the endangered
African wild dog, also known asthe painted dog.
And again, a lot of the workthey do is supporting, they
support in situ projects.
They don't come to Africa andsay, we're going to save the
world.
So they work with researchersand conservation people in
(15:06):
countries like Zimbabwe andZambia and South Africa.
And they're on one hand helpingthe researcher who's trying to
keep an eye on these endangeredanimals and look after the
painted dogs.
But many of those programs alsohave their own community
outreach modules as well too.
So if you look at a goodwildlife charity like Painted
Dog Conservation, that's anAussie-based charity for the
(15:27):
Australians that are listening,and they do fantastic work.
And it's real kind ofgrassroots, no overheads.
The money people donate goesstraight into projects like
that.
So again, it's an example ofwildlife.
and conservation and localcommunities working hand in
hand.
And yeah, just to get back toyour earlier point, in the area
where I live in South Africa,the number one employment
(15:49):
employer and the number oneopportunity for people to get
jobs is tourism.
So yeah, don't underestimatethat the good you're doing while
you're here.
I would sound the note ofcaution, be a little bit careful
of places that offer things likeyou can come here and you can
pet lion cubs and you can feedlittle baby lions and things
like that.
That's a bit of a red flag to meto stay away because some
(16:11):
places, I won't name names, butthey can be little more than
private zoos and they masqueradeas kind of conservation type
operations.
SPEAKER_02 (16:19):
That is a tricky one because how do you know, apart
from that red flag, how do youknow that you're choosing a good
safari, like an ethical safari,a safari that isn't going to
have trafficking and...
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
Yeah, so if you're going to a national park or a
private game reserve, the largerprivate game reserves that are
purely focused on taking you outto see wildlife in the wild,
that's the best thing to belooking for.
There are a number of smallerreserves.
that offer these kind ofinteractive experiences.
(16:51):
And sure, some of them do a goodjob.
A couple that I know of that doa good job are Emiri, I-M-I-R-E
in Zimbabwe, and they doexcellent work in breeding
endangered black rhinos.
And I know a number of Aussieswho've had fantastic trips to
Emiri and had a reallyfulfilling experience where they
can get some hands-on experiencein conservation.
(17:12):
There's a respected wildliferehabilitation centre here in
South Africa called MaholaHollow.
which is near Hood Sprite.
They also do good work becausewhat they do is they'll take
animals that are injured in carcrashes or birds that have flown
into power lines and they getthem better and then they
release them.
Just to sound the note on lions,a lot of places advertise you
can come here and you can petlittle baby lion cubs and we
(17:34):
re-release them into the wild.
The reality of that is thatthose lions are most likely
destined to be taken somewhereto be hunted because it is are
impossible to release a lionback into the wild.
So I just do sound that as anote of caution.
SPEAKER_02 (17:50):
That is interesting.
And that whole caged huntingthing.
Okay.
Let us, let me pick your brainwith all of that fantastic
experience and that overlay ofethical tourism.
Go all into those top questions.
Okay.
Best place for wildlife.
If you're just like just firsttime out, where do you go to see
everything?
Cause it's such a small goodsport, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (18:12):
It's such a big question.
And like, I'll put it this way.
Like most things in life,Belinda, it comes down to time
and money.
How much time have you got andhow much money do you have?
Okay.
Generally, from my point ofview, I'm a big fan of South
Africa for the followingreasons.
Whatever type of safari you goon, From self-drive, where you
(18:32):
come to a country like SouthAfrica and you rent a car or you
rent a 4x4 or you rent a campervan and drive around, through to
ultimate luxury that you canbarely imagine, where you'd be
paying several thousands ofdollars per person per night,
you're going to get better valuefor money in South Africa.
One of the reasons of that ispurely logistical.
South Africa is the breadbasketor the engine room of much of
(18:54):
the rest of the continent.
So your food and your wines andeverything else that goes with
an experience come from here.
So this is South Africa.
This is their home.
So you'll get better value formoney here at whatever level
that you pick.
For wildlife viewing, the KrugerNational Park is the prime
safari destination, by no meansthe only one.
It's probably my favoritebecause I think it's the best
(19:16):
run national park.
I think South African nationalparks are the the best on the
continent in terms ofconservation and management.
What that brings with it ispopularity.
So the Cougar Park can be verybusy to travel in if you're
self-driving.
But for every traffic jam whereyou see 10 vehicles crowded
along, not around the linebecause they're not allowed to
drive off-road, you'll comeacross an amazing sighting of
(19:38):
your own.
Next to the Kruger Park are anumber of luxury, a number of
private game reserves, moreexpensive.
There you've got the fullycatered safari experience where
you get two game drives per day,all your meals, all your drinks
included.
They're not cheap, but when youlook at the price of a hotel
room in my wife and I were justin the US recently, travel has
become expensive.
When you look at that as asafari holiday in which your
(20:00):
every need and all of your foodand drink are catered for, if
you shop around, I think you'reworth it.
If you don't have much time,that's a good option because a
private game reserve, they're inthe business of driving you
around in an open vehicle andfinding the big five, lion,
leopard, buffalo, elephant,rhino for you.
So if you're time poor and cashrich, a private game reserve is
(20:22):
good for you.
For the amount of money you'dspend on four days in a private
game reserve, you could probablyspend a week or two hiring an
Avis or a Europe car from SkuzaAirport in the Kruger National
Park, staying in self-cateringnational parks accommodation and
driving yourself around.
Going further afield, Namibia isfantastic.
If I'm describing it toAustralian authors, I'm saying
(20:42):
Namibia is like the spectacularoutback, but with lions and
elephants.
So it's a really great,interesting, cool place to go.
Botswana tends to be moreexpensive on every level.
It trades off its well-deservedreputation for having lots of
animals.
So that's a no.
The thing about South Africa,just coming back to it, for
(21:04):
Australians or Americans or UKpeople, South Africa has the
most first world infrastructure.
You can hire a car and drivearound.
The roads are good.
The food is very affordable byWestern standards.
The people are friendly.
The further you get out intoAfrica, the rougher things, the
rest of the continent, the kindof rougher things get.
(21:25):
Roads maybe not so good.
Things are a little bit moreexpensive.
It often comes down for manypeople as to where do I go if I
don't know?
Do I go to East Africa orSouthern Africa?
So Southern Africa, SouthAfrica, Zimbabwe, Botswana,
Namibia.
As I said, probably the mostrecognizable for foreign
travelers in terms ofinfrastructure.
You go to the ATM, you can getyour cash out.
(21:46):
You can pay by credit cardeverywhere, that kind of thing
too.
You can drive a car around.
East Africa, Kenya and Tanzaniaare what many people's concept
of a safari is.
And that's largely being fueledby the BBC World Documentaries
and David Attenborough, whereyou see the wide open plains of
the Maasai Mar and the Serengetiand those hundreds and thousands
(22:08):
of wildebeest and zebra and lotsof lions and cheetahs and
animals doing the greatmigration across the river.
I've been there.
I've done it.
It's a spectacle.
It really is.
When you look at the time andmoney thing, it's expensive.
It's far more expensive thanSouthern Africa.
It is a spectacle, but it's avery different experience.
(22:29):
In some ways, that part of theworld, the Maasai Mara and
Serengeti, are a bit of a victimof their own popularity.
Because it's open grass plains,particularly the Maasai Mara,
you get vehicles drivingeverywhere, off-road, all over
the place.
Less so in the Serengeti.
Some people have this idea thatplaces like the Kruger Park,
(22:49):
because they're busy, as I'vementioned, there's going to be
too many people.
I think the worst traffic jamsthat I've seen have been in the
Maasai Mara in particular, whereI've seen 60 or 70 vehicles
literally crowded around ananimal or blocking the Mara
River and stopping thewildebeest from getting out of
the water on their migrationcrossing.
(23:10):
So there's pluses and minuses toeverything.
The plus side is I don't thinkI've ever seen so many cheetah
and so many lions in a three orfour day period as I did in the
Serengeti.
So of the Masai Mara and theSerengeti, I might as well just
tell you my favorites.
I would prefer the Serengetiover the Masai Mara.
I have no commercial impetus insaying that.
Overall, if you're a firsttimer, getting back to your
(23:30):
original question, somewherelike South Africa is going to
provide your, you're probably,no, will provide your best value
for money.
You might get more bang for yourbuck down there.
If you want to get away from itall and get away from the
crowds, and have this experiencewhere you can feel like you're
the only person there out in theveldt, then have a look at
Zimbabwe.
(23:51):
Have a look at Wangi NationalPark, which is very close to
Victoria Falls.
Of course, the iconic VictoriaFalls should be a part of any
Southern African safaridestination.
What a lot of people do is theygo to Victoria Falls and then
they get on a bus and they crossthe border into Botswana and
they go to Chobe National Park.
Also a very busy national parkin Botswana.
(24:12):
It was me.
I'd go the other way, stay inZimbabwe, toddle down the road
to Wangina National Park andhave a real kind of out of
Africa, middle of nowhereexperience.
Yeah.
So I'm also a big fan ofZimbabwe.
It's a beautiful country.
SPEAKER_02 (24:28):
I did see, I've read a little about your experiences
in Zimbabwe.
I've been to the Maasai and thento Southern Africa.
That's really interesting aboutthe two of them.
I've got to say the Maasai areDid the whole treated like a
queen, incredible experiences asa journalist.
Yeah, amazing.
But that it's really great.
That's great to have suchexperience on all of these
(24:49):
safaris because it can be quiteoverwhelming when you're looking
for it.
If I say all I want to do is seea mass of zebra, so I should be
going to Serengeti and Masamara.
If I want to hunt for cheetah,then where would you suggest?
Hunt is such a bad word.
You probably want to go andadmire them.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
So cheetah is very good in those short grass plains
and the Masai Mara and theSerengeti.
Interestingly enough, in WangiNational Park, we also see more
cheetah than ever before.
Part of that's due to theprevalence of elephant.
If you want to see elephant, goto Wangi National Park.
One of the kind of side effectsof having so many elephant in
that area is they've changed theenvironment to a certain extent.
(25:28):
There's somewhere between 30,000and 50,000 elephant in that one
national park.
And they have created more openplains by virtue of their
browsing and grazing.
In my last few trips toZimbabwe, I've probably seen
more cheetah than ever before.
The north of the Kruger Park isvery good for cheetah.
And that's actually the quietestpart of the Kruger Park.
And again, there's not so manyprivate lodges up there.
(25:49):
There's a couple, but that's thesort of place you could reach
with a rental car.
And have a think about that.
Self-drive safaris are verypopular with people from
European countries like Hollandand Germany and France.
Not so much Aussies to think Ihave to go and stay in a lodge
because that's the only way forme to do it and be safe and
everybody needs to look after myneeds and I'm too scared to
(26:10):
drive around by myself.
The fact is that there is anairport inside the Kruger Park
called Skukuza that I mentionedbefore and you can actually fly
from Joburg to there, pick up arental car and just do your own
thing.
Yeah, if you want thespectacle...
Of the millions of animals,that's East Africa.
In South Africa, yeah, hunting,it's a good analogy actually
(26:31):
because you've got to go lookingfor the animals.
And that can be part of the fun.
And that's where skilled guidescome into their own.
The standard of safari guidingis far better across the board
in Southern Africa than it is inEast Africa.
The guides in East Africa don'thave to try too hard because
you're basically driving aroundon what is an enormous golf
(26:53):
course and everything's there infront of you.
Whereas in South Africa, in aprivate lodge, you'll often have
not only your guide, but you'llhave a tracker sitting up on the
front of the Land Rover or theLand Cruiser who gets off
occasionally and actuallyfollows the tracks of the
animals.
It's cool.
It's an exciting experience.
There's this kind of thrill ofthe chase that's part of the
safari experience in SouthernAfrica.
(27:14):
We haven't mentioned NgorongoroCrater.
Again, a spectacle.
I've been there.
Amazing place in Tanzania, theNgorongoro Crater.
Just like a big bowl full ofanimals.
But you'll be one of 300vehicles literally queued up in
the morning to get into that bigbowl.
SPEAKER_02 (27:33):
Incredible.
Can I ask, Ben, if you areself-driving, because I want to
tease this out a little bitmore, if you are self-driving,
And I agree with you when I'vebeen on safari and in a lot of
parts of the world, you'll findEuropeans are much more
self-drive oriented.
Do you have to, can you take aguide with you while you're
driving or are you generally onyour own?
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
Look, that sort of happens in really remote parts
of some countries where I have afriend who did a self-drive in
the Maasai Mara, which is veryout there, you know, because
it's not really geared for that.
And he actually asked a rangerto go out with him just to give
him some tips on where to gobecause the roads weren't well
marked.
Sometimes there were no roads.
But no, in South Africa, you doit yourself.
But what you can do, and this isa pretty good thing to do, is if
(28:14):
you go to somewhere like theKruger National Park or Etosha
National Park, which is lovelyup in Namibia.
And I've only talked about Thereare wonderful parks in
KwaZulu-Natal.
I don't know if people know howto write these down.
The Kalahari Transfrontier Parkin the Kalahari Desert.
So these South African nationalparks, they are geared to local
self-drive travel.
(28:35):
But what you can do, Bill, isthey also offer escorted
activities.
So if you're self-driving andself-catering and you think,
maybe I need a little bit ofhelp or someone to go out and
show me a few more things, youcan pay to go on the drives with
national parks guides.
And the other cool thing you cando is you can go on night
drives.
So you're not allowed to driveyour own car after the dark, but
(28:55):
you can pay to go on a nationalparks vehicle.
It's not expensive.
And then you get out at night,you go looking for things like
leopards and civets and genets,these nighttime type creatures.
And you can also go on a walk,which is also fantastic.
Either a three hour morning walkOr there's even trails where you
go out to a remote camp and youwalk in the morning and the
afternoon every day for threedays.
(29:17):
So you can do those escortedactivities as well as
self-driving.
And why not combine both?
Why not say, I'm going to have aweek driving around in a rental
car on the Kruger Park.
You actually rent a littlehatchback because the roads are
good.
You drive around for a week.
You see all the zebras and thegiraffes and the wildebeests and
that's all fantastic and you'reprobably going to see a lion but
(29:37):
then maybe check into amid-range private game reserve
there's a few that are actuallyinside the Kruger Park as well
and have your last two nights inthe lap of luxury like you've
experienced where everything'sdone for you and maybe you can
say yeah to the guy look Ididn't see a leopard when I was
driving around myself maybe wecan go looking for a leopard
SPEAKER_02 (29:56):
I do like that idea of picking up or you do see
sometimes people talking abouttag-along tours and stuff and
being able to drive at night.
Because I do worry about twothings.
One thing is that I might driveover something and the other is
that I might inadvertently beeaten by something or I've had a
brush with elephant and I swearto goodness, terrifying,
life-affirming, adrenalinegiving and all of that sort of
(30:16):
thing, but also a littledisconcerting.
We are running out of time andit's breaking my heart to tell
you this.
So I'm going to ask you for yourlast question, which is the one
that we ask everybody.
I can't wait to see what youbring to this one, given all
that we've just talked about.
What is your most bizarre travelexperience?
SPEAKER_00 (30:34):
Yeah, I've had lots.
I was driving in Wangu NationalPark one day and I looked out
the window.
I saw some tracks on the groundof a rhino.
I thought, you don't see a lotof rhinos up there,
unfortunately, anymore.
And I looked up from the trackand there was the rhino.
And it put its head down and itcharged at me.
It's a black rhino.
They've got a reputation forbeing very aggressive.
And it chased my wife, a littleland rover, no joke, for five
(30:55):
kilometres.
at up to 40 kilometers an houron these terrible roads.
And I thought this thing wastrying to kill me.
And I finally shook it off andgot to a camp and I recorded it.
And this National Parks guysays, that's Chiwori.
I said, I didn't know it had aname.
And he says to me, she washungry.
And I said, what do you mean shewas hungry?
He said, they don't eat people.
They don't eat people.
(31:16):
And he said, no, she was anorphan whose mum had been killed
by poachers.
And she'd been hand-reared byNational Parks rangers and
relocated to that park.
And whenever she saw a littlegreen Land Rover like ours, she
thought it was the food truck.
So she was not trying to killus.
She was trying to get food.
And we heard that when the localluxury lodges stopped to set out
their sundowners, which they doin the bush, it's a tradition
(31:37):
where they put out drinks andsnacks for their guests
somewhere in the middle of thebush.
Chihuahua would sometimes emergefrom the bush and crash the
party and go and eat all thechips.
That was quite a funny, scary,funny, scary experience.
SPEAKER_02 (31:52):
Oh my goodness, that is phenomenal.
Absolutely phenomenal.
Okay, thank you.
Now you just made me rethink myself-driving reading streak
through Southern Africa.
But if I do, I'm calling youbecause I'm going to ask you for
all of the tips and advice.
It has been so great to talk toyou.
I'm sorry that we've got to cutit off now.
Good luck with the next book andI can't wait to read it and to
(32:15):
see what the one after that isbecause I'm sure that you've
still got a million books in toyou.
Thank you for joining us on thepodcast, Tony.
SPEAKER_00 (32:22):
Thanks, Bill.
It's been great chatting.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (32:24):
What an exhilarating or incredibly frightening
experience being chased by arhino.
Well, that was author Tony Park.
And as he mentioned in theinterview, his latest novel is
out in just a couple of weeks.
To see all Tony's novels set inSouthern Africa and to learn
more about the wildlifeconservation charities that he
supports, visit his website,which is TonyPark.net.
(32:46):
And we'll also include some ofTony's recommendations, such as
the luxury Sabi Sabi Bush Lodgeand some budget self-drive
suggestions in the show notes.
Our tip this week is abouttapping into new experiences on
(33:08):
the Australian ski scene.
So if you're like us and you'rein southern Australia, you've
probably been trying to keepwarm as winter sets in.
But why not just embrace it?
And this weekend, which isKing's birthday long weekend,
the Australian ski season kicksoff.
SPEAKER_02 (33:21):
Yes, my marker actually for the start of the
snow season is always the Eldiesski gear sale.
All of that lovely merino wool.
Did you see the hitchingonesies, Kirsty?
Apparently onesies are back,although I think people forget
how terrible they are whenthey're going to loo when you're
on the floats.
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
Yeah, gosh.
Onesies were such a thing backin those tops you used to wear
when you were clubbing in your20s and they were like, did you
wear those really tight tops?
Had the dome button underneaththose were challenging to get it
to.
SPEAKER_02 (33:49):
I really didn't.
Maybe that was a Kiwi thing.
I don't know what you're talkingabout, but I need a photo.
I mean, I want a photo of you ina club with a button on your
onesie.
I don't know what you're doing.
Buttoned up
SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
underneath the crotch.
And yeah, so you're wearing thislike really, those really tight
tops and then they buttoned upunderneath.
So it was just when you talkedabout how hard it was to go to
the loo in a onesie, I wassaying it just instantly brought
back memories of, yeah, back inthe days of.
SPEAKER_02 (34:18):
Oh my God.
I know what you're talkingabout.
I was so confused then.
Yeah, all right.
Yes, nice.
Anyway, take
SPEAKER_01 (34:25):
our skiing.
That'd be warm though.
That'd still be warm.
That's all I think.
We would work.
First up is news from PerisherKosciuszko National Park, which
is the largest alpine resort inSouthern Hemisphere.
And this season, you can see thelaunch of the very new
high-speed six-seater chairlift.
That means, of course, shorterlines and more skiing.
(34:46):
It was a$26 million chairlift,and it also halves the time.
So instead of it taking 10minutes to get up to the summit
of Mount Perisher, it now takesfive and a half.
And the$26 million that theyspent on creating this also
means that they removed 17 lifttowers.
So that gives you more skiterrain.
SPEAKER_02 (35:05):
Yeah, that's great.
And then Threadbow, which is atthe foothills of Australia's
highest mountain, MountKosciuszko, I love that in 2025,
it is having its three-dayRainbow Mountain event again,
which is an LGBTI pluscelebration from the 7th to the
9th of August with the Poof DoofSki Club, free entertainment
across the mountain and thePride Ride down Sucre Trail,
(35:27):
which sounds like just so muchfun.
And also a tip, a lot of theresorts have actually gone or
are now becoming cashless.
SPEAKER_01 (35:37):
Yeah, oh my God, I love that Poof Doof Ski Club.
Happy birthday.
What a cool name.
And yeah, it's a really goodpoint about being cashless.
The latest move to cashless isLake Mountain, which is going
cashless for the 2025 season.
That's actually the closest skifield to Melbourne, just under
two hours east of the city.
And it's best suited to justsnow play, really, and
(35:58):
beginners.
But it does also havecross-country ski trails.
SPEAKER_02 (36:02):
And staying in Victoria, Hotham Resort has
launched some new learn to skipackages.
And I think this is reallysmart.
They are priced from just$99 foradults and a little more for
kids.
So that gives you a group lessonand access to the dedicated
beginner area, Friday flat.
And they've also shared sometips on getting the best value
for your time in the snow.
Hotham says book early, ofcourse, to save.
(36:25):
You can save up to 70% on yourtickets.
And midweek ski is, of course,much cheaper than skiing on the
weekend, but as much as halfprice.
And Hotham also suggests buyingyour lift passes, lessons and
rentals online.
online, which is going to save10% on the same day prices at
the resort if you're buying atthe window.
SPEAKER_01 (36:44):
And if you want to know what the snow's like before
you head out, jump onto theresort's websites, which have
live cameras for all the snowaction.
And we will put a link to all ofthose in the show notes.
So we can continue to bring youinspirational travel interviews
(37:08):
with the world's best.
Next week, I'm chatting to freediving champion, ocean
conservationist and founder anddirector of I Am Water, Hanley
Prince-Lew, about her remarkablejourney from living on a horse
farm in South Africa, where theclosest ocean is more than 10
hours away, to becoming a freediving world champion and
holding free diving retreats.
SPEAKER_02 (37:30):
That sounds amazing.
What a journey.
And if you enjoyed this episode,please give us a rating and a
review on Apple Podcasts.
Click onto our profile.
Scroll down to the bottom toratings and reviews.
And if you're on Spotify, go toour main page and click the
three dots under our photo.
Or simply drop us a line athello at theworldawaits.au.
We love nothing more thanhearing from our listeners.
(37:54):
That's a wrap for The WorldAwaits this week.
Click to subscribe anywhere youlisten to your favourite pods.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
Welcome to The World Awaits.
Travel tales to inspire yourwanderlust.
Welcome back to The WorldAwaits.
This mini-series is brought toyou by Avani Hotels and Resorts.
With more than 40 propertiesfrom five continents, Avani
offers city hotels, tropicalresorts and retreats in nature.
(00:21):
For more, visit avanihotels.com.
SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
Hi, everyone.
Gosh, the cold is well and trulykicked in Melbourne here at the
moment now that we're actuallyin June.
For those who are listening backon playback, hello.
But yes, it's great.
Whether it be head down writingand editing, given that's about
all I've done this week.
How about you, Belle?
I did do a
SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
pottery class in Finesford, which is a beautiful
little historic area justoutside Geelong with Elizabeth
Bell Ceramics.
If you don't know this area,it's home to Providence, one of
Australia's best value wineries,according to Halliday.
as well as a couple of cutelittle cafes and craft
workshops.
It's just magical in winter.
I was channeling my inner DemiMoore and made a nice vase, not
(01:00):
even an ashtray.
And if you're up for a turn ofthe wheel, she, Elizabeth, runs
pottery taster classes and evena unique taste on kids' birthday
parties.
So that's a great one to havedown in Geelong.
And I've been writing like ademon, very chuffed to have a
couple of pieces in theFinancial Review recently, one
about the Austrian composerStrauss, because as I've
mentioned on the show before,This is a great year if you're
(01:22):
planning to visit Vienna for allof the new museums and the
concerts underway.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
So good.
And speaking of destinationsthat are music to your soul, we
have a cute little quiz from oursponsors, Avani Hotels, which
was created so travellers canfind their tribe.
So how it works is you basicallylog on and you answer a few
questions and it comes up withthe ideal holiday just for you.
This is actually a fun one to
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
try.
So we took the quiz separately,no cheating, at the website
tribes.avanihotels.com.
And it asks you to choose yourdream travel experience from six
options, such as intrepidexploration, sunsets and
soulmates, mindful moments orculinary adventures.
And then you choose the trailsor the waves or the sky and an
(02:08):
emotive word.
And voila, it gives you your topspot to holiday.
SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
So I started by choosing Intrepid Explorer.
Me too.
And then it asks you if yourintrepid explorer is conquering
the trails, soaring the sky orriding the waves.
And of course, I chose thehiking option.
Me too.
And then it asks you how youwant to feel from your holiday.
And it gives you six options.
(02:33):
Do you want to feel relaxed,nourished?
And I chose inspired.
Me too.
So my choice was adventure.
And the destination it chose forme was Zambia.
SPEAKER_02 (02:45):
So actually, we're both going to Zambia, according
to this one, because you justcan't get rid of me, Kirsty.
I've got to say, Zambia is alsovery apt, given our interview
coming up shortly, which is allthings Southern Africa.
The quiz goes on to suggest adestination and an Avani
property, which means, in ourcase, Kirsty, we should be going
to the Avani Victoria FallsResort in Zambia.
The resort has stays from$300 anight and things like Zambian
(03:09):
village dining experiences andsundowner cruises on the
Victorian Falls, which would bejust amazing.
And lots
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
of hiking and trekking, which was my point.
Yes, I'm desperate to go thereand do that.
To test the quiz a little bitfurther, because we
unfortunately or fortunatelycame up with the same result.
I also chose mindful momentsholiday.
And then instead of yoga orlounging the spa, went for a
massage-oriented holiday, whichmakes you feel relaxed.
(03:38):
And the tribe was WellnessWanderer.
And it sent me to the coastaltown of Hua Hin, south of
Bangkok in Thailand.
And there, the Avani Plus HuaHin has packages from just$147 a
night.
And that includes an hour-longmassage.
with, get this, with pizza.
Who would have thought?
Pizza and massage,
SPEAKER_02 (03:57):
pretty nice, right?
So I gave the quiz another crackas well.
I chose Sidious Gates and askedfor a style adventure that makes
me feel passionate.
They were my three steps I wentthrough.
And that tribe is creatives.
And it sent me to Milan, wherethe Avani Palazzo Moscovo Milan
has so many fabulousexperiences, some of which we
(04:17):
talked about last week,including this one I really
loved, a guided vintage shoppingtrip.
And also choose on a Fiat 500.
So jump back to last week's appand take a listen.
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
And the point of it is really just to get you
thinking a bit more about thetype of traveler you are and
what experience might be bestfor you, this whole Avani
tribes.
And you never know, it mightjust throw you out of your
comfort zone a bit.
And that's where the magic oftravel really starts anyway.
So we'll put a link in the shownotes to help you find your
travel tribe.
SPEAKER_02 (04:47):
If you're enjoying this episode of The World
Awaits, why not find out whichof the Avani tribes you belong
to and then match yourdestination to your personality
type at tribes.avanihotel.com.
And for more about Avani Hotels,head to avanihotels.com.
(05:13):
This week, my guest isAustralian thriller author Tony
Park, who lives just north ofKruger National Park in South
Africa.
We're talking about safariexperiences in the southern
African countries, how to go onsafari without breaking the
bank, and also his 23rd novel,which is just about to hit the
streets.
Take a listen.
Welcome to The World Awaits.
(05:33):
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited to have you onthe podcast because I have been
reading your work for years.
So welcome onto the pod.
SPEAKER_00 (05:42):
Thanks so much, Bill.
It's really great to be here andthanks for the opportunity.
SPEAKER_02 (05:45):
Oh, absolutely.
Look, the pleasure is all minebecause I want to know
everything about what you do.
Firstly, how you became such aprolific author and living in
South Africa when you areclearly an Australian.
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
Yeah, and I'm an Aussie.
I'm living in South Africapretty much full time these
days.
So yeah, to make a long storyshort, my wife Nicola and I came
to South Africa, SouthernAfrica, South Africa, Zimbabwe
and Botswana in 1995 on what wassupposed to be a once in a
lifetime trip and turned out tobe anything but.
Because what happens here inAfrica, it's a sort of place
(06:22):
where it's very hard todescribe.
You come thinking, I'm justgoing to tick this off my bucket
list.
But for many people, somethinghappens.
You either get bitten bysomething or you breathe
something in or you drinksomething, I don't know.
But it's very easy to becomehooked on this continent.
Part of it's the wildlife, whichis a big attraction for many
people coming.
But it's also the way of lifeand the people and just the
(06:45):
whole vibe here.
And I think, no, I know for surethat by the end of that first
three-week holiday.
Possibly by the end of the firstweek, we'd already planned a
return visit and we came backevery year.
Since then, for the last 30years, with the exception of a
year I went to Afghanistan withthe Ami, which is another story,
but otherwise we've come toAfrica every year.
(07:05):
And of course we spent more timehere.
That first trip coincided withme doing what I had always
wanted to do since I was alittle kid.
And that was to write a book.
All I wanted to do in life wasto write a novel.
And I actually had left workaround that time with the grace
of my wife, Nicola.
She gave me six months to writea book.
(07:25):
And I wrote a book and I failed.
It never got published.
But on our third trip back toAfrica, I had another go.
And I wrote a book set on afictitious tour around Southern
Africa, which we were doing oncemore.
And I sent it to a publisher,Pam McMillan Australia.
And luckily enough, I gotpublished and they said, you can
write the Africa books.
And here I am, 22 novels laterand 10 biographies, still
(07:48):
writing the Africa books.
And I get to make a living outof it now, combining my two
loves, which are Africa andwriting.
SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
What a dream.
What an absolute dream.
And I'm sure that anybody who'sever wanted to write a novel is
going to be like, that's goingto be me.
Of course, let's gloss over theones that didn't make it.
So let's just leave those.
So you've got 22 novels in pre.
You've got a new one coming outsoon.
pretty much as we speak, haven'tyou?
So what's the name?
Because you were doing, that ispart of the big reveal on it.
(08:15):
And tell us a bit about thebook.
SPEAKER_00 (08:17):
Yeah, so the 23rd novel is called Die by the
Sword.
And that's dropping on July 29.
So it's a dual timelinethriller.
I've done one of those in thepast where part of the story is
set in contemporary SouthernAfrica, starts off on the beach
in Azulu, Natal, near where Icurrently spend some of my time,
and then moves to the historicbattlefields area of
(08:39):
KwaZulu-Natal South Africa.
And so the second part of thestory takes place in 1880 in the
aftermath of the Anglo-Zulu War.
So if anyone remembers that oldmovie Zulu, it's that period.
And also the contemporary, acontemporary look at what's
happening in South Africa todayin terms of conservation and
land issues in the country,which is a very big issue at the
moment as well.
SPEAKER_02 (08:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
I've read a number of yourbooks, including The Delta,
which I think I read going intolockdown and it just let me
escape.
for a little while the confinesof a Melbourne lockdown.
And that is an eco-thrillerthat's set in Botswana.
And most recently, the one thatI've just finished reading was
The Protector, which is allabout the illegal trade in
pangolins, those odd, scalylittle mammals, the world's most
(09:21):
trafficked animal for their usein traditional medicine.
What I love about the books isyour absolute detail, those tiny
roads, the local villages insouthern Africa.
So you've clearly been on a lotof safaris, haven't you?
SPEAKER_00 (09:34):
Yeah, if there's one thing that links all the books,
there is that environmentalangle.
And the trade in endangeredwildlife species is one of the
top five organized crimes in theworld.
So it's actually up there withdrugs and arms dealing and
people smuggling and things likethat.
So it's a huge problem.
One thing I like to point out inthe books is the good work
that's being done.
And you mentioned the protector.
(09:54):
And the lead character in TheProtector is a university
professor who's an expert onpangolins.
And in her spare time, she goesundercover with her gun and she
busts poaching rings.
Now, that might sound toofar-fetched to be possibly true,
but she's actually based on areal-life person.
So there's no shortage of goodwork being done here in
conservation.
As to the detail, yeah, I foundthat what worked for me,
(10:16):
particularly as an Australianwriting about someone else's
part of the world, was to do myresearch by not actually
researching, by just trackingtraveling and living.
So traveling is a really bigpart of my writing.
And I write my books onlocation.
So if the plot seems to weave alittle bit of characters go or
find themselves traveling allover Southern Africa, as happens
(10:36):
in The Protector, and I buy thesword in the new one, it's
because I happen to be on thatjourney literally at that time.
So as I travel, I look around, Ilisten, I try and pick up the
sights, sounds, smells ofwherever I am, what the wildlife
is doing and what the people aredoing and how they talk and
what's motivating them andwhat's important in their lives.
So that kind of traveling andwriting, just absorbing things
(10:59):
as you move around really workswell for me.
SPEAKER_02 (11:02):
And that is the skill of a great reporter.
And I'm going to use that wordadvisedly because you are
reporting on things that you'veseen.
You're a conduit for that.
And the detail is justastonishing.
Can I go into that conservationside?
Because it does have a, asyou're saying, it is a strong
thread through it.
When we as travellers aretravelling on safari, and I'm
(11:25):
going to pick your brains aboutbest places to go, times to the
Caesars and stuff like that, butjust about wildlife trafficking.
When we are travelling onsafari, how can we as travellers
help Because if you're going tosomething like the Protector, on
your website, you've actuallytalked about how you saw a
(11:47):
trafficking bust in that.
So you've really got hands-onexperience about it.
I feel quite distant from it.
Is there anything I can do tohelp pitch in on that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
You know, just by being there, by taking a
decision to travel to Africa,it's a huge continent and you've
got to pick where you want togo.
We'll talk about that, I guess,soon.
Tourism is a crucial part ofmost African countries'
economies.
And it's probably the best thingfor wildlife.
It's really simple, but reallycomplex.
Somewhere like the Kruger Parknear where I live is surrounded
(12:19):
by lots and lots of people,hundreds of thousands of people
who live a very basic existence,who live in poverty in some
cases.
Their main shot at a job is inAnd the tourism facilities that
they visit when they're runproperly will invest back into
local communities.
And the best way to tackle theproblem of poaching is to uplift
the communities and the peoplethat feel that their only option
(12:42):
is to turn to crime and to turnto wildlife crime.
Because right here is thismassive national park.
in their backyard, full ofanimals that people overseas
will pay illegally to get holdof, things like rhino horn and
elephant ivory and pangolinscales, which, as you say, are
used in medicine.
So just being here is good.
And if you're on holiday in anyAfrican country, a good
(13:04):
operator, a good tourismoperator, or even if you do your
own research, will point youtowards hopefully some project
in the community that's designedto do that.
And sometimes that can be assimple as making sure that local
kids get a chance to get intothe national park and actually
see wildlife and gain anappreciation for it.
And sure, some of thosecommunities need a helping hand
(13:24):
in terms of other things, suchas school books for schools,
such as clean water for thevillage, job opportunities.
Come along, be part of it.
And if you're minded to do that,you'll have no problem.
finding ways in which to helpand the best way to help i think
is to help give people a hand upand become more self-sufficient
self-sustainable i support avery good program called nourish
(13:46):
which is a little eco village onthe edge of the kruger park And
they do all of those things.
They educate kids.
They provide childminding so mumand dad can go to work.
Vegetable gardens.
They give support to grandmaswho are often left at home
looking after little kidsbecause both parents have to
work.
They do after-school Englishlanguage tuition to help kids
get a leg up at home.
Those sort of things arebuilding sustainability in
(14:08):
communities.
And as I said, giving people analternative to becoming
poachers.
SPEAKER_02 (14:14):
That is really interesting because I think
often people overlook the valueof tourism.
Like it's just seen as a asuperfluous thing that people
with money do.
You know, I'm going to go onsafari.
And I've got to say, every timeI've met somebody that goes on
safari, they're always bookinganother one.
So as you say, you get bittenonce and you never leave it go.
(14:35):
So that's really fascinating.
Are there any other largerprojects or conservation
projects that you work withyourself, aside from these like
nourish?
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
Yeah, I'm involved in a, I'm the patron of a
Perth-based charity calledPainted Dog Conservation, and
that's all about focusing onconserving the endangered
African wild dog, also known asthe painted dog.
And again, a lot of the workthey do is supporting, they
support in situ projects.
They don't come to Africa andsay, we're going to save the
world.
So they work with researchersand conservation people in
(15:06):
countries like Zimbabwe andZambia and South Africa.
And they're on one hand helpingthe researcher who's trying to
keep an eye on these endangeredanimals and look after the
painted dogs.
But many of those programs alsohave their own community
outreach modules as well too.
So if you look at a goodwildlife charity like Painted
Dog Conservation, that's anAussie-based charity for the
(15:27):
Australians that are listening,and they do fantastic work.
And it's real kind ofgrassroots, no overheads.
The money people donate goesstraight into projects like
that.
So again, it's an example ofwildlife.
and conservation and localcommunities working hand in
hand.
And yeah, just to get back toyour earlier point, in the area
where I live in South Africa,the number one employment
(15:49):
employer and the number oneopportunity for people to get
jobs is tourism.
So yeah, don't underestimatethat the good you're doing while
you're here.
I would sound the note ofcaution, be a little bit careful
of places that offer things likeyou can come here and you can
pet lion cubs and you can feedlittle baby lions and things
like that.
That's a bit of a red flag to meto stay away because some
(16:11):
places, I won't name names, butthey can be little more than
private zoos and they masqueradeas kind of conservation type
operations.
SPEAKER_02 (16:19):
That is a tricky one because how do you know, apart
from that red flag, how do youknow that you're choosing a good
safari, like an ethical safari,a safari that isn't going to
have trafficking and...
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
Yeah, so if you're going to a national park or a
private game reserve, the largerprivate game reserves that are
purely focused on taking you outto see wildlife in the wild,
that's the best thing to belooking for.
There are a number of smallerreserves.
that offer these kind ofinteractive experiences.
(16:51):
And sure, some of them do a goodjob.
A couple that I know of that doa good job are Emiri, I-M-I-R-E
in Zimbabwe, and they doexcellent work in breeding
endangered black rhinos.
And I know a number of Aussieswho've had fantastic trips to
Emiri and had a reallyfulfilling experience where they
can get some hands-on experiencein conservation.
(17:12):
There's a respected wildliferehabilitation centre here in
South Africa called MaholaHollow.
which is near Hood Sprite.
They also do good work becausewhat they do is they'll take
animals that are injured in carcrashes or birds that have flown
into power lines and they getthem better and then they
release them.
Just to sound the note on lions,a lot of places advertise you
can come here and you can petlittle baby lion cubs and we
(17:34):
re-release them into the wild.
The reality of that is thatthose lions are most likely
destined to be taken somewhereto be hunted because it is are
impossible to release a lionback into the wild.
So I just do sound that as anote of caution.
SPEAKER_02 (17:50):
That is interesting.
And that whole caged huntingthing.
Okay.
Let us, let me pick your brainwith all of that fantastic
experience and that overlay ofethical tourism.
Go all into those top questions.
Okay.
Best place for wildlife.
If you're just like just firsttime out, where do you go to see
everything?
Cause it's such a small goodsport, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (18:12):
It's such a big question.
And like, I'll put it this way.
Like most things in life,Belinda, it comes down to time
and money.
How much time have you got andhow much money do you have?
Okay.
Generally, from my point ofview, I'm a big fan of South
Africa for the followingreasons.
Whatever type of safari you goon, From self-drive, where you
(18:32):
come to a country like SouthAfrica and you rent a car or you
rent a 4x4 or you rent a campervan and drive around, through to
ultimate luxury that you canbarely imagine, where you'd be
paying several thousands ofdollars per person per night,
you're going to get better valuefor money in South Africa.
One of the reasons of that ispurely logistical.
South Africa is the breadbasketor the engine room of much of
(18:54):
the rest of the continent.
So your food and your wines andeverything else that goes with
an experience come from here.
So this is South Africa.
This is their home.
So you'll get better value formoney here at whatever level
that you pick.
For wildlife viewing, the KrugerNational Park is the prime
safari destination, by no meansthe only one.
It's probably my favoritebecause I think it's the best
(19:16):
run national park.
I think South African nationalparks are the the best on the
continent in terms ofconservation and management.
What that brings with it ispopularity.
So the Cougar Park can be verybusy to travel in if you're
self-driving.
But for every traffic jam whereyou see 10 vehicles crowded
along, not around the linebecause they're not allowed to
drive off-road, you'll comeacross an amazing sighting of
(19:38):
your own.
Next to the Kruger Park are anumber of luxury, a number of
private game reserves, moreexpensive.
There you've got the fullycatered safari experience where
you get two game drives per day,all your meals, all your drinks
included.
They're not cheap, but when youlook at the price of a hotel
room in my wife and I were justin the US recently, travel has
become expensive.
When you look at that as asafari holiday in which your
(20:00):
every need and all of your foodand drink are catered for, if
you shop around, I think you'reworth it.
If you don't have much time,that's a good option because a
private game reserve, they're inthe business of driving you
around in an open vehicle andfinding the big five, lion,
leopard, buffalo, elephant,rhino for you.
So if you're time poor and cashrich, a private game reserve is
(20:22):
good for you.
For the amount of money you'dspend on four days in a private
game reserve, you could probablyspend a week or two hiring an
Avis or a Europe car from SkuzaAirport in the Kruger National
Park, staying in self-cateringnational parks accommodation and
driving yourself around.
Going further afield, Namibia isfantastic.
If I'm describing it toAustralian authors, I'm saying
(20:42):
Namibia is like the spectacularoutback, but with lions and
elephants.
So it's a really great,interesting, cool place to go.
Botswana tends to be moreexpensive on every level.
It trades off its well-deservedreputation for having lots of
animals.
So that's a no.
The thing about South Africa,just coming back to it, for
(21:04):
Australians or Americans or UKpeople, South Africa has the
most first world infrastructure.
You can hire a car and drivearound.
The roads are good.
The food is very affordable byWestern standards.
The people are friendly.
The further you get out intoAfrica, the rougher things, the
rest of the continent, the kindof rougher things get.
(21:25):
Roads maybe not so good.
Things are a little bit moreexpensive.
It often comes down for manypeople as to where do I go if I
don't know?
Do I go to East Africa orSouthern Africa?
So Southern Africa, SouthAfrica, Zimbabwe, Botswana,
Namibia.
As I said, probably the mostrecognizable for foreign
travelers in terms ofinfrastructure.
You go to the ATM, you can getyour cash out.
(21:46):
You can pay by credit cardeverywhere, that kind of thing
too.
You can drive a car around.
East Africa, Kenya and Tanzaniaare what many people's concept
of a safari is.
And that's largely being fueledby the BBC World Documentaries
and David Attenborough, whereyou see the wide open plains of
the Maasai Mar and the Serengetiand those hundreds and thousands
(22:08):
of wildebeest and zebra and lotsof lions and cheetahs and
animals doing the greatmigration across the river.
I've been there.
I've done it.
It's a spectacle.
It really is.
When you look at the time andmoney thing, it's expensive.
It's far more expensive thanSouthern Africa.
It is a spectacle, but it's avery different experience.
(22:29):
In some ways, that part of theworld, the Maasai Mara and
Serengeti, are a bit of a victimof their own popularity.
Because it's open grass plains,particularly the Maasai Mara,
you get vehicles drivingeverywhere, off-road, all over
the place.
Less so in the Serengeti.
Some people have this idea thatplaces like the Kruger Park,
(22:49):
because they're busy, as I'vementioned, there's going to be
too many people.
I think the worst traffic jamsthat I've seen have been in the
Maasai Mara in particular, whereI've seen 60 or 70 vehicles
literally crowded around ananimal or blocking the Mara
River and stopping thewildebeest from getting out of
the water on their migrationcrossing.
(23:10):
So there's pluses and minuses toeverything.
The plus side is I don't thinkI've ever seen so many cheetah
and so many lions in a three orfour day period as I did in the
Serengeti.
So of the Masai Mara and theSerengeti, I might as well just
tell you my favorites.
I would prefer the Serengetiover the Masai Mara.
I have no commercial impetus insaying that.
Overall, if you're a firsttimer, getting back to your
(23:30):
original question, somewherelike South Africa is going to
provide your, you're probably,no, will provide your best value
for money.
You might get more bang for yourbuck down there.
If you want to get away from itall and get away from the
crowds, and have this experiencewhere you can feel like you're
the only person there out in theveldt, then have a look at
Zimbabwe.
(23:51):
Have a look at Wangi NationalPark, which is very close to
Victoria Falls.
Of course, the iconic VictoriaFalls should be a part of any
Southern African safaridestination.
What a lot of people do is theygo to Victoria Falls and then
they get on a bus and they crossthe border into Botswana and
they go to Chobe National Park.
Also a very busy national parkin Botswana.
(24:12):
It was me.
I'd go the other way, stay inZimbabwe, toddle down the road
to Wangina National Park andhave a real kind of out of
Africa, middle of nowhereexperience.
Yeah.
So I'm also a big fan ofZimbabwe.
It's a beautiful country.
SPEAKER_02 (24:28):
I did see, I've read a little about your experiences
in Zimbabwe.
I've been to the Maasai and thento Southern Africa.
That's really interesting aboutthe two of them.
I've got to say the Maasai areDid the whole treated like a
queen, incredible experiences asa journalist.
Yeah, amazing.
But that it's really great.
That's great to have suchexperience on all of these
(24:49):
safaris because it can be quiteoverwhelming when you're looking
for it.
If I say all I want to do is seea mass of zebra, so I should be
going to Serengeti and Masamara.
If I want to hunt for cheetah,then where would you suggest?
Hunt is such a bad word.
You probably want to go andadmire them.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
So cheetah is very good in those short grass plains
and the Masai Mara and theSerengeti.
Interestingly enough, in WangiNational Park, we also see more
cheetah than ever before.
Part of that's due to theprevalence of elephant.
If you want to see elephant, goto Wangi National Park.
One of the kind of side effectsof having so many elephant in
that area is they've changed theenvironment to a certain extent.
(25:28):
There's somewhere between 30,000and 50,000 elephant in that one
national park.
And they have created more openplains by virtue of their
browsing and grazing.
In my last few trips toZimbabwe, I've probably seen
more cheetah than ever before.
The north of the Kruger Park isvery good for cheetah.
And that's actually the quietestpart of the Kruger Park.
And again, there's not so manyprivate lodges up there.
(25:49):
There's a couple, but that's thesort of place you could reach
with a rental car.
And have a think about that.
Self-drive safaris are verypopular with people from
European countries like Hollandand Germany and France.
Not so much Aussies to think Ihave to go and stay in a lodge
because that's the only way forme to do it and be safe and
everybody needs to look after myneeds and I'm too scared to
(26:10):
drive around by myself.
The fact is that there is anairport inside the Kruger Park
called Skukuza that I mentionedbefore and you can actually fly
from Joburg to there, pick up arental car and just do your own
thing.
Yeah, if you want thespectacle...
Of the millions of animals,that's East Africa.
In South Africa, yeah, hunting,it's a good analogy actually
(26:31):
because you've got to go lookingfor the animals.
And that can be part of the fun.
And that's where skilled guidescome into their own.
The standard of safari guidingis far better across the board
in Southern Africa than it is inEast Africa.
The guides in East Africa don'thave to try too hard because
you're basically driving aroundon what is an enormous golf
(26:53):
course and everything's there infront of you.
Whereas in South Africa, in aprivate lodge, you'll often have
not only your guide, but you'llhave a tracker sitting up on the
front of the Land Rover or theLand Cruiser who gets off
occasionally and actuallyfollows the tracks of the
animals.
It's cool.
It's an exciting experience.
There's this kind of thrill ofthe chase that's part of the
safari experience in SouthernAfrica.
(27:14):
We haven't mentioned NgorongoroCrater.
Again, a spectacle.
I've been there.
Amazing place in Tanzania, theNgorongoro Crater.
Just like a big bowl full ofanimals.
But you'll be one of 300vehicles literally queued up in
the morning to get into that bigbowl.
SPEAKER_02 (27:33):
Incredible.
Can I ask, Ben, if you areself-driving, because I want to
tease this out a little bitmore, if you are self-driving,
And I agree with you when I'vebeen on safari and in a lot of
parts of the world, you'll findEuropeans are much more
self-drive oriented.
Do you have to, can you take aguide with you while you're
driving or are you generally onyour own?
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
Look, that sort of happens in really remote parts
of some countries where I have afriend who did a self-drive in
the Maasai Mara, which is veryout there, you know, because
it's not really geared for that.
And he actually asked a rangerto go out with him just to give
him some tips on where to gobecause the roads weren't well
marked.
Sometimes there were no roads.
But no, in South Africa, you doit yourself.
But what you can do, and this isa pretty good thing to do, is if
(28:14):
you go to somewhere like theKruger National Park or Etosha
National Park, which is lovelyup in Namibia.
And I've only talked about Thereare wonderful parks in
KwaZulu-Natal.
I don't know if people know howto write these down.
The Kalahari Transfrontier Parkin the Kalahari Desert.
So these South African nationalparks, they are geared to local
self-drive travel.
(28:35):
But what you can do, Bill, isthey also offer escorted
activities.
So if you're self-driving andself-catering and you think,
maybe I need a little bit ofhelp or someone to go out and
show me a few more things, youcan pay to go on the drives with
national parks guides.
And the other cool thing you cando is you can go on night
drives.
So you're not allowed to driveyour own car after the dark, but
(28:55):
you can pay to go on a nationalparks vehicle.
It's not expensive.
And then you get out at night,you go looking for things like
leopards and civets and genets,these nighttime type creatures.
And you can also go on a walk,which is also fantastic.
Either a three hour morning walkOr there's even trails where you
go out to a remote camp and youwalk in the morning and the
afternoon every day for threedays.
(29:17):
So you can do those escortedactivities as well as
self-driving.
And why not combine both?
Why not say, I'm going to have aweek driving around in a rental
car on the Kruger Park.
You actually rent a littlehatchback because the roads are
good.
You drive around for a week.
You see all the zebras and thegiraffes and the wildebeests and
that's all fantastic and you'reprobably going to see a lion but
(29:37):
then maybe check into amid-range private game reserve
there's a few that are actuallyinside the Kruger Park as well
and have your last two nights inthe lap of luxury like you've
experienced where everything'sdone for you and maybe you can
say yeah to the guy look Ididn't see a leopard when I was
driving around myself maybe wecan go looking for a leopard
SPEAKER_02 (29:56):
I do like that idea of picking up or you do see
sometimes people talking abouttag-along tours and stuff and
being able to drive at night.
Because I do worry about twothings.
One thing is that I might driveover something and the other is
that I might inadvertently beeaten by something or I've had a
brush with elephant and I swearto goodness, terrifying,
life-affirming, adrenalinegiving and all of that sort of
(30:16):
thing, but also a littledisconcerting.
We are running out of time andit's breaking my heart to tell
you this.
So I'm going to ask you for yourlast question, which is the one
that we ask everybody.
I can't wait to see what youbring to this one, given all
that we've just talked about.
What is your most bizarre travelexperience?
SPEAKER_00 (30:34):
Yeah, I've had lots.
I was driving in Wangu NationalPark one day and I looked out
the window.
I saw some tracks on the groundof a rhino.
I thought, you don't see a lotof rhinos up there,
unfortunately, anymore.
And I looked up from the trackand there was the rhino.
And it put its head down and itcharged at me.
It's a black rhino.
They've got a reputation forbeing very aggressive.
And it chased my wife, a littleland rover, no joke, for five
(30:55):
kilometres.
at up to 40 kilometers an houron these terrible roads.
And I thought this thing wastrying to kill me.
And I finally shook it off andgot to a camp and I recorded it.
And this National Parks guysays, that's Chiwori.
I said, I didn't know it had aname.
And he says to me, she washungry.
And I said, what do you mean shewas hungry?
He said, they don't eat people.
They don't eat people.
(31:16):
And he said, no, she was anorphan whose mum had been killed
by poachers.
And she'd been hand-reared byNational Parks rangers and
relocated to that park.
And whenever she saw a littlegreen Land Rover like ours, she
thought it was the food truck.
So she was not trying to killus.
She was trying to get food.
And we heard that when the localluxury lodges stopped to set out
their sundowners, which they doin the bush, it's a tradition
(31:37):
where they put out drinks andsnacks for their guests
somewhere in the middle of thebush.
Chihuahua would sometimes emergefrom the bush and crash the
party and go and eat all thechips.
That was quite a funny, scary,funny, scary experience.
SPEAKER_02 (31:52):
Oh my goodness, that is phenomenal.
Absolutely phenomenal.
Okay, thank you.
Now you just made me rethink myself-driving reading streak
through Southern Africa.
But if I do, I'm calling youbecause I'm going to ask you for
all of the tips and advice.
It has been so great to talk toyou.
I'm sorry that we've got to cutit off now.
Good luck with the next book andI can't wait to read it and to
(32:15):
see what the one after that isbecause I'm sure that you've
still got a million books in toyou.
Thank you for joining us on thepodcast, Tony.
SPEAKER_00 (32:22):
Thanks, Bill.
It's been great chatting.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (32:24):
What an exhilarating or incredibly frightening
experience being chased by arhino.
Well, that was author Tony Park.
And as he mentioned in theinterview, his latest novel is
out in just a couple of weeks.
To see all Tony's novels set inSouthern Africa and to learn
more about the wildlifeconservation charities that he
supports, visit his website,which is TonyPark.net.
(32:46):
And we'll also include some ofTony's recommendations, such as
the luxury Sabi Sabi Bush Lodgeand some budget self-drive
suggestions in the show notes.
Our tip this week is abouttapping into new experiences on
(33:08):
the Australian ski scene.
So if you're like us and you'rein southern Australia, you've
probably been trying to keepwarm as winter sets in.
But why not just embrace it?
And this weekend, which isKing's birthday long weekend,
the Australian ski season kicksoff.
SPEAKER_02 (33:21):
Yes, my marker actually for the start of the
snow season is always the Eldiesski gear sale.
All of that lovely merino wool.
Did you see the hitchingonesies, Kirsty?
Apparently onesies are back,although I think people forget
how terrible they are whenthey're going to loo when you're
on the floats.
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
Yeah, gosh.
Onesies were such a thing backin those tops you used to wear
when you were clubbing in your20s and they were like, did you
wear those really tight tops?
Had the dome button underneaththose were challenging to get it
to.
SPEAKER_02 (33:49):
I really didn't.
Maybe that was a Kiwi thing.
I don't know what you're talkingabout, but I need a photo.
I mean, I want a photo of you ina club with a button on your
onesie.
I don't know what you're doing.
Buttoned up
SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
underneath the crotch.
And yeah, so you're wearing thislike really, those really tight
tops and then they buttoned upunderneath.
So it was just when you talkedabout how hard it was to go to
the loo in a onesie, I wassaying it just instantly brought
back memories of, yeah, back inthe days of.
SPEAKER_02 (34:18):
Oh my God.
I know what you're talkingabout.
I was so confused then.
Yeah, all right.
Yes, nice.
Anyway, take
SPEAKER_01 (34:25):
our skiing.
That'd be warm though.
That'd still be warm.
That's all I think.
We would work.
First up is news from PerisherKosciuszko National Park, which
is the largest alpine resort inSouthern Hemisphere.
And this season, you can see thelaunch of the very new
high-speed six-seater chairlift.
That means, of course, shorterlines and more skiing.
(34:46):
It was a$26 million chairlift,and it also halves the time.
So instead of it taking 10minutes to get up to the summit
of Mount Perisher, it now takesfive and a half.
And the$26 million that theyspent on creating this also
means that they removed 17 lifttowers.
So that gives you more skiterrain.
SPEAKER_02 (35:05):
Yeah, that's great.
And then Threadbow, which is atthe foothills of Australia's
highest mountain, MountKosciuszko, I love that in 2025,
it is having its three-dayRainbow Mountain event again,
which is an LGBTI pluscelebration from the 7th to the
9th of August with the Poof DoofSki Club, free entertainment
across the mountain and thePride Ride down Sucre Trail,
(35:27):
which sounds like just so muchfun.
And also a tip, a lot of theresorts have actually gone or
are now becoming cashless.
SPEAKER_01 (35:37):
Yeah, oh my God, I love that Poof Doof Ski Club.
Happy birthday.
What a cool name.
And yeah, it's a really goodpoint about being cashless.
The latest move to cashless isLake Mountain, which is going
cashless for the 2025 season.
That's actually the closest skifield to Melbourne, just under
two hours east of the city.
And it's best suited to justsnow play, really, and
(35:58):
beginners.
But it does also havecross-country ski trails.
SPEAKER_02 (36:02):
And staying in Victoria, Hotham Resort has
launched some new learn to skipackages.
And I think this is reallysmart.
They are priced from just$99 foradults and a little more for
kids.
So that gives you a group lessonand access to the dedicated
beginner area, Friday flat.
And they've also shared sometips on getting the best value
for your time in the snow.
Hotham says book early, ofcourse, to save.
(36:25):
You can save up to 70% on yourtickets.
And midweek ski is, of course,much cheaper than skiing on the
weekend, but as much as halfprice.
And Hotham also suggests buyingyour lift passes, lessons and
rentals online.
online, which is going to save10% on the same day prices at
the resort if you're buying atthe window.
SPEAKER_01 (36:44):
And if you want to know what the snow's like before
you head out, jump onto theresort's websites, which have
live cameras for all the snowaction.
And we will put a link to all ofthose in the show notes.
So we can continue to bring youinspirational travel interviews
(37:08):
with the world's best.
Next week, I'm chatting to freediving champion, ocean
conservationist and founder anddirector of I Am Water, Hanley
Prince-Lew, about her remarkablejourney from living on a horse
farm in South Africa, where theclosest ocean is more than 10
hours away, to becoming a freediving world champion and
holding free diving retreats.
SPEAKER_02 (37:30):
That sounds amazing.
What a journey.
And if you enjoyed this episode,please give us a rating and a
review on Apple Podcasts.
Click onto our profile.
Scroll down to the bottom toratings and reviews.
And if you're on Spotify, go toour main page and click the
three dots under our photo.
Or simply drop us a line athello at theworldawaits.au.
We love nothing more thanhearing from our listeners.
(37:54):
That's a wrap for The WorldAwaits this week.
Click to subscribe anywhere youlisten to your favourite pods.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
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