June 30, 2025 • 44 mins
What happens when we prioritize obedience over transformation in our families? This raw, honest exploration of Christian parenting challenges our core assumptions about discipline, faith formation, and raising disciples.
With refreshing vulnerability, the message begins with an admission rarely heard from pulpits: "I am not the greatest parent who's ever lived. I mess up more often than I care to admit." This transparency sets the stage for a profound conversation about the difference between raising rule-followers and nurturing transformed hearts.
Drawing from Paul's powerful testimony in Philippians 3, we discover how religious performance without relationship misses the point entirely. Paul had achieved perfect religious obedience yet considered it "garbage" compared to the transformative power of knowing Christ. Similarly, our children can attend every church service and follow every rule without ever experiencing genuine transformation.
The heart of this message challenges us to see discipline differently – not as forcing compliance but as guiding young disciples toward Jesus. When we punish without explanation, demand obedience without understanding, or prioritize appearances over authenticity, we risk creating either rebellion or empty religiosity in our children's hearts.
Most powerfully, the way we parent directly shapes how our children view God. A harsh, rule-focused home creates children who see God as an angry taskmaster rather than a loving Father who offers grace even when we stumble. Your children are watching not just what you say about God, but how you reflect His character in your everyday interactions.
Ready to shift from behavior management to heart transformation in your family? This message provides practical wisdom for the challenging, holy work of raising disciples who don't just follow rules but follow Jesus with their whole hearts.
For any parent, grandparent, or influential adult in a child's life – what legacy of faith are you creating? Join us as we explore how transformation, not mere obedience, creates disciples who continue walking with Jesus long after they leave our homes.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
So we're in week two of a series called Family Values
, and this morning so last weekwe talked about the importance
of a solid foundation.
That's why I played Jenga, ifyou ever played Jenga.
It's all about a goodfoundation.
It's about you know and that'swhat Scripture teaches us, right
?
Jesus talks about this in theSermon on the Mount that those
(00:24):
who build their foundation on mecan withstand any storm.
And so we talked about one ofthe most important things is to
have a strong foundation as afamily.
In order for you to have astrong, your kids have a strong
foundation, you have to have astrong foundation.
So I want to preface themessage this morning by telling
you that I am not the greatestparent who's ever lived.
(00:47):
Surprise, right?
I mess up more often than Icare to admit.
I've had a lot of growingmoments in my life.
My kids will be happy to tellyou of those moments in my life.
You know my story.
(01:07):
I grew up with my mom, raisedus and my two brothers, and we
lived next door to my grandmaand my grandpa like almost my
entire life, from what I canremember, except when we were in
Virginia, but I didn't reallyhave my dad around when I was
younger.
Now, later in life, my dad andI amended that relationship and
(01:30):
God's been working on that right, and so he has been around a
lot more.
But when I was younger, Ididn't really have my dad around
and listen.
People make mistakes right,it's life circumstances.
Things happen.
But one of the things that Iworried the most about growing
up is what kind of dad was Igoing to be when I grew up?
Because my mom modeled for meas perfect as I think she could
(01:54):
have.
I love my mom, but she wasn't adad, right.
There's some things my momdidn't teach me how to shave I
figured that out, right.
I didn't realize until my firstyear in college that I was
doing it wrong.
And a guy that I was roomingwith was like a practice of
being a barber and he gave me ahaircut.
I'm like, well, that looksamazing, I should do that more,
(02:14):
right?
But my mom didn't give me someof those things and it's not her
fault.
There's a reason why dads areimportant.
There's a certain part of thatthat dads have to fill, and I
struggled with that Because whenI became a dad, I was worried
that I was going to be too harsh.
I think back to when I wasyounger, and some of my favorite
(02:38):
sayings from when I was youngerwas I brought you into this
world, I can take you out andlisten.
When you're little, you're likeas you get older, you're like
are you going to kill me?
That's a lot, that's intense.
We probably shouldn't say thatto our children because that
really sets the wrong tone.
(02:59):
Or here's one do what I saybecause I said so.
Okay, but why?
I learned that with my kids.
I said that to Griffin one timeearly on and he was like yeah,
but why?
And I'm like stop askingquestions, you're a kid, you're
not supposed to do that.
(03:20):
Or here's something that Ilearned, and it's something that
I'm not against spanking mykids, but it's very rare.
Because one time I spanked oneof my kids I hit one of my kids
for hitting one of my kids, andI was like that's probably not
sending the right message.
Don't hit what.
(03:41):
And we think about that asparents.
Right, what do we model for ourkids?
What do we show them?
And I think in the church we dothe same thing.
I think we convince ourselvesthat if we can just make our
kids be obedient you know we sitin church and they have to sit
(04:06):
there and be proper.
They can't move.
Don't move, yeah, but they'rekids.
Most kids can't sit still right, or you know, don't talk, shh
Church.
We say that.
And then we turn to ourneighbor and we talk about what
(04:26):
we're about to have for lunch.
Again, what are we modelingright?
We have this expectation that,well, you're just going to do
what I say and you're going tobe okay.
And we focus on that a lot oftimes because we are convinced
that if we just teach them to dothe right things all the time,
(04:47):
that they're going to turn outand be good, solid people.
But if we're being honest, thatusually doesn't happen like we
think it will.
We teach them to behave and beobedient, but we do nothing to
teach them about transformation.
We don't give them the why,right?
We just say do what I say,because this is what I told you
(05:10):
to do, and don't ask questions.
And then I can tell you, assomeone who's worked student
ministry for more than 10 yearsthe older they get, the more
questions they ask, and when youstop answering those questions,
they will find answerselsewhere, and it's usually not
in the church they belong to.
And so this morning we're goingto talk about that, the
(05:32):
importance of transformationover obedience, because I think
it's important.
I think when you're dealingwith kids, you have to help them
understand that they are a workin progress.
You have to help themunderstand that they are a work
in progress, by the way, so areyou.
God is constantly bringing usto the understanding that
(05:54):
there's things in our life thatneed to change.
So, transformation overobedience.
So Paul talks about this alittle bit in Philippians,
chapter 3, verses 1 through 14,and this is what Paul writes.
He says further my brothers andsisters, rejoice in the Lord.
It is no trouble for me towrite the same things to you
(06:16):
again, and it's a safeguard foryou.
Watch out for those dogs, thoseevildoers, those mutilators of
the flesh, for it is we who arethe circumcision, who serve God
by his spirit, who boast inChrist Jesus and who put no
confidence in our flesh, thoughI myself have reasons for such
(06:37):
confidence.
If someone else thinks theyhave reasons to put confidence
in the flesh, I have more.
I was circumcised on the eighthday by the people of Israel, the
tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew ofHebrews.
In regard to the law, I was aPharisee.
As for zeal, persecuting thechurch.
As for righteousness based onthe law, I was faultless.
(06:58):
But whatever were gains to me,I now consider loss for the sake
of Christ.
What is more, I considereverything a loss because of the
surpassing worth of knowingChrist Jesus, my Lord, for whose
sake I have lost all things itsays.
I consider them garbage.
That I may gain Christ and befound in him, not having a
(07:20):
righteousness of my own thatcomes from the law, but that
which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes
from God.
On the basis of faith.
I want to know Christ, yes, toknow the power of his
resurrection and participationin his suffering, becoming like
him in his death, and so somehowattain to the resurrection from
(07:41):
the dead.
Not that I have alreadyobtained all of this or have
already arrived at my goal, butI press on and take hold of that
which Christ Jesus took hold ofme.
Brothers and sisters, I do notconsider myself yet to have
taken hold of it, but one thingI do forgetting what is behind
and straining toward what isahead, I press on toward the
goal, to win the prize which Godhas called me heavenward, in
(08:05):
Christ Jesus.
So Paul starts out in thebeginning of this passage and
says listen, if there's anyonewho followed the law, it was me.
I did it.
I did everything the right way.
I was incredibly religious.
I went to church when I wassupposed to.
I prayed the prayers that I wassupposed to.
(08:27):
I stood for the things, evenpersecuting those who I thought
were false believers.
I did everything I could tomaintain my outside appearance
of having my life put together.
I did all of it.
None of you could even touch me.
I did all of it.
(08:48):
None of you could even touch me.
And then he continues and saysbut none of that makes sense.
All of that is garbage.
Now that I've met Jesus andunderstand, I don't think he's
saying that that discipline wasunnecessary, but I think he's
looking at that discipline inlight of a relationship with
Jesus, because he did all thereligious things and still
(09:11):
missed God.
You can go to church everysingle day of your life, from
now until the end of the world,and still have no idea who God
is.
You can drag your kids kickingand screaming, to Sunday school,
the Bible studies, to everyevent we do, and your kids can
(09:34):
still grow up not knowing whoGod is, because just being in
church is not enough.
Just being in a Bible study isnot enough.
These things are important.
Do not get me wrong.
Listen, I stand up here tellingyou I believe going to church
on Sunday morning is important.
I believe it's necessary.
But don't confuse that, becausethat hour and a half on Sunday
(09:59):
morning that we're here maybetwo hours depending on how long
I talk for that two hours onSunday morning does not have the
same impact as what your kidssee when they get home on Sunday
afternoon.
It doesn't have the same impactBecause just following
religious practices, just beingobedient, is not enough.
(10:20):
Good, yes, sufficient, no,there has to be more.
Paul wrestles with this.
He says, listen, I did allthose things, but I look back on
it and I realize now that mylife didn't change until I met
Jesus.
(10:40):
He even says I have to continueto press on because of what God
has done for me.
I'm not quite there yet.
I'm a work in progress.
So, parents, let's start there.
(11:02):
You're a work in progress.
You're not perfect.
I'm not a perfect dad.
I mess up more often than Ilike to admit, but the God who
created me shows me grace, showsme mercy, walks with me.
(11:23):
If God punished me for everybad thing that I did, I wouldn't
be here, but I'm a work inprogress.
Paul argues this.
He's like I'm still learning it.
Parenting isn't about perfection, but it's about pointing our
(11:44):
kids to the same grace that youand I need every day.
We correct our kids, not from apedestal, not you know.
If I brought you in this world,I can take you out of it.
You'll do what I say becauseI'm in charge.
We don't come to our kids withthat approach.
We come to them from a place ofbrokenness and say just as you
(12:08):
have messed up today, so have Imessed up before.
That there's grace for me andthere has to be grace for you.
And I know, listen, I know thatalmost sounds counterproductive,
because, well, we need to teachkids how to behave.
I don't disagree with that.
(12:28):
But if you're never helpingthem understand why it is you're
establishing these behaviors,it's never going to stay.
We're rebellious at our core,like sin has destroyed us.
You and I are rebellious people, so are our kids Right?
You know, the differencebetween you and your kid is your
(12:51):
kid doesn't understand culturestuff yet and social
expectations.
So there are rebellions on fulldisplay.
You and I, we hide it.
Sometimes we hide behind it.
But the point is, when we lookat our kids, do you see someone
who just needs to listen andobey or do you see a child
(13:15):
uniquely created by God thatneeds guidance?
Those are differentconversations.
My wife is a whole lot betterat this than I am, so much so
that it drives me nuts Sometimes.
The other day and I think Dannytalked about this before the
(13:36):
other day I said something youguys just act like a bunch of
children.
And she looked at me and she'slike, yeah, they are.
And I'm like I know, I knowright, but I'm that parent and I
have that frustration when mykids are acting up in public or
they're not doing what they'resupposed to.
By the way, let me just say thisreal quick as a preacher, my
(13:56):
kids are also not perfect, soplease don't hold them to that
standard, because I know theexpectations for preacher kids.
They do all the right things,they lead all the Bible studies.
Nope, they're human beings.
They're still processing life.
My kids will act up in churchsometimes.
We try really hard so thatdoesn't happen, but it does.
(14:20):
My kids are going to makedecisions when they get older
that it's probably going to getback to me because someone saw
something and they called me.
And I'm telling you right now,if your hope is to tell my kids
so I'll discipline them.
It's not going to happen,because when I meet them, when I
talk to them, my first questionis going to be like hey, are
you okay?
What's going on?
(14:40):
What happened?
One of the things that we'vebeen doing lately and it's not
my idea, I took it from someoneelse but anytime we go out in
public, I ask my kids twoquestions and they're getting
annoyed by it, but I don't carebecause I think it's good.
I ask them who they are.
Well, we're clients.
I'm like you're right, that'swho we are.
(15:02):
I'm like who do we represent?
We represent God.
I'm like that's right, that'swho we represent.
And it's not to try to guiltthem or shame them, but it's to
help them understand that theway that they live their life is
a reflection of that.
My kids need to understand whycertain behaviors are expected.
(15:24):
And when it comes todisciplining our kids, I think
if we could see them as again,not simply this person who needs
to obey us, but this personwho's being transformed with our
help, the approach is different.
Proverbs 22.6 says this Startyour children off on the way
(15:47):
they should go, and even whenthey are old they will not turn
from it.
Should go, and even when theyare old they will not turn from
it.
Romans 12 2 says do not conformto the patterns of this world,
but be transformed by therenewing of your mind.
Then you'll be able to test andimprove what God's will is, his
good, pleasing and perfect will.
(16:08):
Paul is writing to this churchand he's saying listen, I did
all of the things and it stillwasn't enough.
And I would almost guaranteeyou know somebody.
And listen, this is not.
I'm not saying this.
So you think about this personbecause you judge them, because
(16:30):
you shouldn't be.
But I know that you knowsomeone who's grown up in the
church and they look nothinglike Jesus, because somewhere
along the line they've missed it.
They weren't transformed, theyjust followed a bunch of rules
and habits.
They were obedient forobedience sake.
This was Paul.
(16:52):
He said I did all the things, Ilistened, I followed the rules.
I was a Hebrew among Hebrews.
No one could match me.
But when I met Christ, Irealized that all of that was
for nothing.
It taught me how to bereligious, but I forgot the fact
(17:14):
that it's not about religion,it's about a relationship.
Paul's life is transformed.
He goes and becomes one of thegreatest missionaries, writes
more books in the New Testamentand the Bible than anyone.
He dies, he gives his life tothe very end.
He dies on behalf of the cross,because this was a man who
(17:39):
understood and he got it.
And I think about all thechurches that he was like a
father figure to.
He oversaw them, he helped them, he guided them.
All of these letters, thepurpose of them, was to
encourage and correct and helpthem refocus Because, again,
(18:00):
when we follow Jesus,transformation is more important
than obedience.
So let me give you an example.
If you have kids, you know for afact that one of them has
broken the other one's toy,whether on purpose or by
accident and my house tends tobe on purpose.
(18:22):
So imagine two kids fighting.
One broke a toy, smashed it,right, you got one kid crying,
losing their mind, the other onewho doesn't really care.
So what's the approach?
I remember when I was youngermy first thought was well, I'm
going to break that kid's toy,give me one of your favorite
(18:45):
toys, I'm going to break it.
That doesn't make sense.
Again doing the same thing tothem that I'm trying to tell
them not to do doesn't makesense.
Again, doing the same thing tothem that I'm trying to tell
them not to do doesn't work.
It actually reinforces the ideathat that's how punishment is
right.
So I could get mad, I couldscream, I could paddle them, I
(19:10):
could yell at them, I couldground them.
And I'll be honest, this isprobably my go to not perfect.
But what if, instead, you had aconversation and said hey,
listen, what happened?
Why did you feel the need tobreak that toy?
(19:32):
Do you understand why yoursibling is upset Like you hurt
them?
Would you like that done to you?
These conversations, I'mtelling you, these conversations
, are hard to have because theyhave to be intentional.
Screaming, paddling, groundingall of those things, in my
(19:56):
opinion, are easy to do.
Well, here's a consequence youdid something wrong.
Now go suffer.
You guys?
Ever seen Malcolm in the Middle?
I used to watch that show whenI was younger and the mom, lois,
was like the best one in theworld for discipline.
We started watching it againrecently.
And the two Lois was like thebest one in the world for
discipline.
We started watching againrecently.
And the two older boys dosomething wrong and she makes
(20:17):
them get down on their kneeswith their hands behind their
head and they have to put theirnose on the wall and they have
to sit there for an hour.
And we were watching this and Iwas like, can we do that?
Like, is that child abuse?
And Danny's like probably.
And again it's funny.
But a lot of times thediscipline we offer, the idea
(20:39):
behind the discipline, isobedience.
It's not about transformation.
It's not about helping them tonecessarily understand that, hey
, listen, this behavior is wrongand here's why.
But all throughout Scripture wesee God.
That's exactly what he doeswith his people.
Yes, he disciplines them, buthe always comes back to trying
(21:03):
to listen.
It's a heart problem.
They're rebellious.
Sin has made them rebellious.
Our kids are rebellious becausesin has corrupted it.
So are we seeking for childrento be obedient or are we seeking
for kids to be like Jesus?
That's a question that you andI have to wrestle with and
(21:29):
that's hard.
And it's hard because in themoment when you're a parent and
you're tired, and it's hardbecause in the moment when
you're a parent and you're tiredand you're frustrated, yelling
at them just makes sense whenyou're overwhelmed.
And for the 70th time that daythey've asked you to do
something you've already saidyou're not doing until next week
(21:50):
.
You're like doing until nextweek.
You're like just stop talking.
But then, when you pay attentionas a parent, you realize that
they actually model yourbehavior more than you think
they do.
And the irony is is they tendto do the actual behavior that
(22:12):
you do more than what you tellthem not to do.
I've seen this in my own kidshey, don't do that, and then
they see me do it, and then theydo it themselves because I
modeled it for them, right?
So discipline is necessary.
I'm not saying you let yourkids go crazy, but discipline
(22:32):
has to be rooted in love and ithas to be rooted in this idea of
transformation.
If you don't think as a parent,unless I'm going to say as
grandparents, grandparents,you're not off the hook here.
I love you guys.
I know some of you spoil yourgrandkids and then you think, oh
, great, great, go home now,you're fine.
(22:54):
But you're not off the hook Ifyou have kids, grandkids listen,
if you're an aunt, you're anuncle.
Same thing applies, man.
It's all across the board.
The kids that are in your life,those are your little disciples
.
You're called to disciple them,to teach them.
(23:15):
I'm called to model for my kidsthe importance of going to
church, the importance ofpraying, the importance of
showing grace and mercy and love, the importance of apologizing
when they make mistakes, and soare you.
Hebrews 12, 6 says because theLord disciplines the one that he
(23:36):
loves and he chastens everyonehe accepts as his son, again,
discipline's necessary.
I'm not saying it's not you.
Discipline your kids if youlove them.
I know that for a fact.
Now they don't always agreewith you.
But then Colossians 3.21 saysFathers, don't embitter your
(23:58):
children or they'll becomediscouraged.
And the passage is sayinglisten, don't overwhelm them,
don't force them just to beobedient, because I don't know
about you, but the more youforce kids to be obedient, the
(24:18):
more rebellious they become.
The more we try to follow afterGod and do what he calls us to
do, the more rebellious webecome.
Because there's somethinginside of us, it's a heart issue
.
It says boundaries and rules areessential tools for parenting.
They provide structure, promotesafety and help children learn
(24:41):
how to navigate the world.
But as children grow, thoseboundaries must also grow with
them.
What's non-negotiable for atoddler, like touching a hot
stove, can become a life skillfor a preteen learning to cook.
So the shift doesn't mean rulesdisappear.
It means that they adapt aschildren mature.
So understanding basic humandevelopment can help parents
(25:04):
know when to enforce limits andwhen to loosen the reins.
It's natural to want to protectour children from harm at every
stage of life, butoverprotection can hinder growth
.
Our role is not only to keepthem safe, but also to help them
become capable, resilientadults.
So this perspective isespecially important during the
(25:24):
adolescent years, whendevelopment can feel
unpredictable or evenfrustrating.
Just because we stop trackingphysical milestones doesn't mean
growth has stopped.
Emotional, social and spiritualdevelopment continues well into
adulthood, and wise parentingadjusts accordingly.
This is something that researchhas shown us, and we talked
(25:47):
about this a little bit lastweek.
The number one factor thatinfluences kids in their
relationship with God and theirrelationship with the church
that they get plugged into asthey get older is mom and dad.
It's not your pastor, it's notthe youth pastor, it's not their
football coach or theirbaseball coach.
It's not even their friendsbelieve it or not, but their
(26:10):
influence as far as their lifegoes and whether or not they
choose to follow Jesus is momand dad.
That's one of the number oneindicators.
If mom and dad are serious andthey follow Jesus the way
they're supposed to, you seethat reflecting their kids.
Now listen, that doesn't alwayshappen.
(26:30):
I'm well aware of that.
I know plenty of really, reallygood parents that have raised
their kids right and their kidswalked away.
It happens Again.
That's the hardest part, Ithink, about being a parent is
eventually your kids have tomake their own decision, but
that still doesn't mean that youshouldn't try to set a
(26:52):
foundation for them.
There's so many, there's so muchresearch that shows that even
kids who wander away from theirfaith find their way back more
often than not because mom anddad set a tone early on.
That was important.
My faith was important to megrowing up, except to Jesus when
(27:13):
I was 15, for like the first 10years of my life.
But my faith really becameimportant when I had kids,
because I realized that I neededto show them what it was to
follow Jesus.
Paul, 1 Corinthians 11, 1 saysfollow my example as I follow
Christ.
Matthew 5, 16 says says in thesame way, let your light shine
(27:36):
before others that they may seeyour good deeds and glorify your
Father in heaven.
It's all about modeling foryour kids what it is to follow
Jesus.
Obedience and discipline is tofollow Jesus.
Obedience and discipline ispart of that.
(28:00):
There's been such a shift inthe world lately about that.
Again, it's funny now growingup, but the way that I was
raised was different than how myparents were raised.
I know that I've hadconversations.
You know, as a guy you were dothis, be tough, be strong,
(28:22):
you'll be fine.
Just deal with it.
I watched the I call him mygrandfather Like biologically he
wasn't, but he might as wellhave been because he had such a
big part of my life when I was ateenager.
I watched this man almost cuthis finger off one time and his
solution was he went to the shed, he got some duct tape and he
(28:44):
wrapped it and he went back towork and I was like I don't
think that's safe.
He's like ah, my dad was atough man and so am I.
I'm like listen, I understandyou're tough, but amputation of
a thumb is going to be rough ifyou lose it.
But there's this idea, and Ithink in parenting just do what
I say, do what you're told to do, don't ask questions, and if
(29:09):
you do that, you'll turn outfine, and then we look ahead and
realize that that's notactually what happened.
And so now we get to theconversations today and people
say, oh, these kids are too soft.
I'm like, listen, don't eversay that about my kids.
First off, you don't know mykids.
Each one of them individuallyis incredibly unique.
(29:30):
My kids aren't soft becausethey're in touch with their
emotions.
My kids aren't soft becausethey can express the fact that
they're angry.
My kids aren't soft becausethey ask us questions sometimes
when we discipline them.
If anything, we've encouragedthem because I want them to be
someone who is transformed intostrong godly men, not just
(29:55):
obedient, because it makeseveryone else feel comfortable.
I discipline my kids that's whatyou're supposed to do but I
care more about their heart thanwhether or not you think my
discipline of my children isacceptable, because here's the
thing I love all of you dearly.
I don't really care if youthink I discipline my kids the
(30:19):
way you think they should bedisciplined.
Guess what?
They're not your kids, not yourresponsibility.
They're mine.
They're my little disciples andI want them to follow Jesus.
I want them to be strong men offaith who lead families, their
wives and their children tofollow Jesus and I think the
best way to do that is to helpthem understand at this age now
(30:42):
why that matters.
So when I ask my kids who are we, I'm not doing it because I
want them to behave.
I want them to understand whothey are.
When I ask my kids, who do wefollow, and they say God, it's
not because I want them to beafraid of God and fear
discipline.
I want them to understand thatthey are living for the one who
(31:05):
created them and that their lifedecisions matter.
My hope and my prayer is, as mykids go into the world, that
every situation they step intothey stop and they say I'm a
Klein and I represent God.
I want them to think that.
I want it to become soingrained in them that that's
(31:26):
exactly who they are, becausethey're human.
They're not perfect.
They're not always going to beobedient.
Again, growing up in this rolewas fun because man people
(31:47):
really like to watch what wecall PK kids.
People really like to go afterministers and say well, you
didn't raise your kids right.
Listen, they are their ownpeople.
I can set the stage, but theycan still rebel.
By the way, god sets theprecedence and you and I still
(32:07):
rebel.
So if you say I'm a bad parent,then you must think God's not
that great either, and I don'tknow if you want to venture down
that road.
God's perfect in everything thathe does.
I'm not, but it doesn't meanthat we can't teach our kids to
follow after the one who is.
(32:28):
It doesn't mean that they won'tmess up.
It doesn't mean that they won'tmess up.
It doesn't mean that they'll beperfect.
But transformation has to bemore important than obedience.
Obedience sake, for obediencesake only produces rebellion.
I can prove it.
We teach kids to follow rules.
(32:52):
As long as they do this, this,this and this, they're going to
be okay, and then, 10 yearslater, they're not okay.
Instead, we have to teach themto look at their life and say
who am I?
And I think so much of thismatters because I think how you
(33:20):
discipline your kids, whetheryou intend to or not, affects
how they see God.
I believe that, and I thinkpart of that has to do with how
do you see God.
I know there's a lot of peoplein churches today who do all the
things.
They say the right thing, theysing the right way, they do
(33:45):
everything they're supposed to,and I think some of that is out
of fear, because if I don't dothis, god's going to discipline
me.
If I don't do this, in mysalvation I'd be at stake.
I've got to keep doing all theright things because I've got to
(34:05):
earn what you can't earn any ofit.
Jesus dying on the cross wasn'tbecause you did the right thing
.
It's because you did all thewrong things and he did the
right thing.
So our view of God, we have toget away from this idea of this
(34:26):
overbearing father figure in thesky.
What do they say when you messup?
Oh, god's going to hit me withlightning.
I've never seen him hit anybodywith lightning on purpose.
Now, I know people have beenhit with lightning.
That's between him and them.
But I hear people say I can'twalk in that church, it'll burn
down.
I'm like, listen, it might, butit's not because of you.
No offense, but don't think sohighly of yourself.
(34:47):
But instead, what if our viewof God is God?
I know that I messed up today.
I'm sorry, god, I'm trying.
I'm trying to do the rightthing.
I'm trying to say the rightthing.
I'm trying to be a betterperson.
(35:08):
I'm going to do better tomorrow.
And what if that's how our kidsfelt when they came home hey
mom, hey dad, I'm sorry that Imessed up.
I know I shouldn't have donethat.
I'm going to do better, I'mgoing to try harder.
(35:33):
It can't just be obedience forobedience sake, because if all
we're trying to do is accomplishobedience, not only do I think
it fosters rebellion, but itfosters deceitfulness.
When a kid feels like they haveto behave all the time because
that's the expectation andthere's no way around it, when
they do mess up, they won't cometalk to you about it, they'll
(35:54):
hide from it, and the momentthat starts happening, satan
starts to creep in and starts toconvince them that they're not
worth it, that they're bad, thatthey're a failure.
I worked in student ministryfor a long time and I had one
girl say to me one time she was15 years old and she had done
something and it wasn't great.
She had done something and itwasn't great, and I said to her
(36:16):
why?
Why?
She said well, that's what theyexpected of me.
I'm like, who expects it of you?
She said well, my family, youpay attention, right, I'm always
the one messing things up.
She's like I stopped trying andI just accepted it, and so I
decided that I was going to liveup to their expectation of me,
because what does it matteranyways?
And that broke me.
(36:40):
And as I become a parent, that'sthe question that I have to
wrestle with is what are myexpectations of my kids?
Do I expect them to be perfect?
No, but do they think that theyneed to be man?
I hope not, because not only isit unattainable but it's
(37:00):
burdensome.
God doesn't expect you to beperfect, he expects you to be
holy.
Now listen, I know that there'sa difference there.
I promise Perfection is you doeverything right all the time,
you never screw up.
Holy is you're constantlyseeking to be like Jesus.
And along the way, you willstumble, you will fall, you will
(37:23):
make mistakes, but, as Paulsays, we press on to the goal,
realizing that we have notachieved it yet.
That's what we have to do withour kids.
It's not about it yet.
That's what we have to do withour kids.
It's not about being obedient.
It's about helping them realizethat their goal was to be like
Jesus.
And we see that modeled inScripture because of the grace
(37:46):
and the love and the mercy thatGod shows us when we fail.
I love this statement.
It says Parenting is hard butit's also holy.
It said you won't always get itright, you'll have days filled
(38:07):
with doubt, frustration andfailure, but just know that
you're not alone.
It said the same Spirit whoraised Jesus from the dead is
alive in you, strengthening.
Just know that you're not alone, that the same spirit who
raised Jesus from the dead isalive in you, strengthening you,
guiding you, reminding you thatGod loves your children even
more than you do.
So keep showing up, keep loving, keep leading with grace,
(38:27):
because every moment offaithfulness, no matter how
small, is planting a seed foreternity.
You're not just raising kids,you're raising disciples, and
the best part is God does itwith you.
Being a parent is hard.
It's the toughest thing I'veever done in my life.
(38:54):
I know my kids, when they getolder, will appreciate Danny and
I more, and I know that becauseit wasn't until I was in my
early 30s that I realized howincredible my mom and my
grandparents were, and I know Italk about my mom a lot.
They said if you don't know mymom, you should get to know her.
She's a pretty awesome person.
But I never really appreciatedmy mom when I was younger
(39:16):
Because I'm a kid man, you don'tappreciate your parents.
When you're a teenager, youthink they're the worst thing in
the world.
Listen, I'm not wrong LikeEverett's at that stage now
where he doesn't like hug us inpublic and I'm like, come on,
man, we're not there yet.
He's like my friends, I'm likeI don't care and I get it right.
He's a human being, he'sgetting there, he's learning and
(39:37):
all those things.
But at the end of the day, myhope for them, beyond being rich
, beyond having a good job,beyond them accomplishing every
dream and thing that they wantto accomplish in their life, my
hope for my kids is they followJesus first and that they raise,
(40:00):
they marry, they leave theirwife like godly men are supposed
to, and that they raise theirkids to follow God too, because
that can be a generational thing.
And here's the thing If you'venever had that in your past, it
doesn't mean you can't have itin your future.
I didn't grow up in the church.
I didn't 15 years old except toJesus, and in the last 10, I've
(40:28):
had the privilege of baptizingpretty much my entire family
into Jesus, right, because,again, just because I didn't
have it in my past doesn't meanI can't have it in my future.
I want my kids to follow God.
It's not about obedience, it'sabout transformation.
Your kids are disciples.
(40:48):
You're leading them.
They're human beings withfeelings and emotions and
challenges, and they're alldifferent.
That's the one thing I'll neverunderstand.
You can raise three kids in thesame house and they're all
different.
It doesn't matter.
They're all different, they'reall unique, they're all created
by God and they all have apurpose.
(41:10):
And for the little bit of timethat you have them in this world
, your one job mom and dad,grandma and grandpa, aunts and
uncles your one job is to showthem Jesus.
That's what matters, becausenothing else you will ever teach
(41:32):
them, will ever have an eternalimpact like that.
Stop trying to force your kidsto behave.
Try to transform them.
Try to focus on helping them bethe little men and women that
(41:52):
God wants them to be.
Help them understand that Godloves them, that he sees them,
that he wants the best for them,not out of obedience, not
because they need to earn hisfavor, because even in their
rebellion, he died for them too.
It's all about transformation.
(42:13):
A strong foundation leads totransformation.
They have to go together.
I don't know what your homelooks like.
I don't.
I don't know how frustrating itis.
I don't know the challenges youhave with your kids.
I'm not even going to give yougood parenting advice because I
(42:35):
don't even think I it is.
I don't know the challenges youhave with your kids.
I'm not even going to give yougood parenting advice because I
don't even think I'm a goodparent sometimes.
But I will tell you that ifyou're not really sure you're
doing the right thing, go to God, trust Him, pray.
Surround yourself with otherpeople that want to raise their
kids to follow Jesus, becausehe's the only one who knows what
(42:59):
they're going to become anyways.
Obedience is easy.
Transformation is the hard part.
All right, let's pray.
So we're in week two of a series called Family Values
, and this morning so last weekwe talked about the importance
of a solid foundation.
That's why I played Jenga, ifyou ever played Jenga.
It's all about a goodfoundation.
It's about you know and that'swhat Scripture teaches us, right
?
Jesus talks about this in theSermon on the Mount that those
(00:24):
who build their foundation on mecan withstand any storm.
And so we talked about one ofthe most important things is to
have a strong foundation as afamily.
In order for you to have astrong, your kids have a strong
foundation, you have to have astrong foundation.
So I want to preface themessage this morning by telling
you that I am not the greatestparent who's ever lived.
(00:47):
Surprise, right?
I mess up more often than Icare to admit.
I've had a lot of growingmoments in my life.
My kids will be happy to tellyou of those moments in my life.
You know my story.
(01:07):
I grew up with my mom, raisedus and my two brothers, and we
lived next door to my grandmaand my grandpa like almost my
entire life, from what I canremember, except when we were in
Virginia, but I didn't reallyhave my dad around when I was
younger.
Now, later in life, my dad andI amended that relationship and
(01:30):
God's been working on that right, and so he has been around a
lot more.
But when I was younger, Ididn't really have my dad around
and listen.
People make mistakes right,it's life circumstances.
Things happen.
But one of the things that Iworried the most about growing
up is what kind of dad was Igoing to be when I grew up?
Because my mom modeled for meas perfect as I think she could
(01:54):
have.
I love my mom, but she wasn't adad, right.
There's some things my momdidn't teach me how to shave I
figured that out, right.
I didn't realize until my firstyear in college that I was
doing it wrong.
And a guy that I was roomingwith was like a practice of
being a barber and he gave me ahaircut.
I'm like, well, that looksamazing, I should do that more,
(02:14):
right?
But my mom didn't give me someof those things and it's not her
fault.
There's a reason why dads areimportant.
There's a certain part of thatthat dads have to fill, and I
struggled with that Because whenI became a dad, I was worried
that I was going to be too harsh.
I think back to when I wasyounger, and some of my favorite
(02:38):
sayings from when I was youngerwas I brought you into this
world, I can take you out andlisten.
When you're little, you're likeas you get older, you're like
are you going to kill me?
That's a lot, that's intense.
We probably shouldn't say thatto our children because that
really sets the wrong tone.
(02:59):
Or here's one do what I saybecause I said so.
Okay, but why?
I learned that with my kids.
I said that to Griffin one timeearly on and he was like yeah,
but why?
And I'm like stop askingquestions, you're a kid, you're
not supposed to do that.
(03:20):
Or here's something that Ilearned, and it's something that
I'm not against spanking mykids, but it's very rare.
Because one time I spanked oneof my kids I hit one of my kids
for hitting one of my kids, andI was like that's probably not
sending the right message.
Don't hit what.
(03:41):
And we think about that asparents.
Right, what do we model for ourkids?
What do we show them?
And I think in the church we dothe same thing.
I think we convince ourselvesthat if we can just make our
kids be obedient you know we sitin church and they have to sit
(04:06):
there and be proper.
They can't move.
Don't move, yeah, but they'rekids.
Most kids can't sit still right, or you know, don't talk, shh
Church.
We say that.
And then we turn to ourneighbor and we talk about what
(04:26):
we're about to have for lunch.
Again, what are we modelingright?
We have this expectation that,well, you're just going to do
what I say and you're going tobe okay.
And we focus on that a lot oftimes because we are convinced
that if we just teach them to dothe right things all the time,
(04:47):
that they're going to turn outand be good, solid people.
But if we're being honest, thatusually doesn't happen like we
think it will.
We teach them to behave and beobedient, but we do nothing to
teach them about transformation.
We don't give them the why,right?
We just say do what I say,because this is what I told you
(05:10):
to do, and don't ask questions.
And then I can tell you, assomeone who's worked student
ministry for more than 10 yearsthe older they get, the more
questions they ask, and when youstop answering those questions,
they will find answerselsewhere, and it's usually not
in the church they belong to.
And so this morning we're goingto talk about that, the
(05:32):
importance of transformationover obedience, because I think
it's important.
I think when you're dealingwith kids, you have to help them
understand that they are a workin progress.
You have to help themunderstand that they are a work
in progress, by the way, so areyou.
God is constantly bringing usto the understanding that
(05:54):
there's things in our life thatneed to change.
So, transformation overobedience.
So Paul talks about this alittle bit in Philippians,
chapter 3, verses 1 through 14,and this is what Paul writes.
He says further my brothers andsisters, rejoice in the Lord.
It is no trouble for me towrite the same things to you
(06:16):
again, and it's a safeguard foryou.
Watch out for those dogs, thoseevildoers, those mutilators of
the flesh, for it is we who arethe circumcision, who serve God
by his spirit, who boast inChrist Jesus and who put no
confidence in our flesh, thoughI myself have reasons for such
(06:37):
confidence.
If someone else thinks theyhave reasons to put confidence
in the flesh, I have more.
I was circumcised on the eighthday by the people of Israel, the
tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew ofHebrews.
In regard to the law, I was aPharisee.
As for zeal, persecuting thechurch.
As for righteousness based onthe law, I was faultless.
(06:58):
But whatever were gains to me,I now consider loss for the sake
of Christ.
What is more, I considereverything a loss because of the
surpassing worth of knowingChrist Jesus, my Lord, for whose
sake I have lost all things itsays.
I consider them garbage.
That I may gain Christ and befound in him, not having a
(07:20):
righteousness of my own thatcomes from the law, but that
which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes
from God.
On the basis of faith.
I want to know Christ, yes, toknow the power of his
resurrection and participationin his suffering, becoming like
him in his death, and so somehowattain to the resurrection from
(07:41):
the dead.
Not that I have alreadyobtained all of this or have
already arrived at my goal, butI press on and take hold of that
which Christ Jesus took hold ofme.
Brothers and sisters, I do notconsider myself yet to have
taken hold of it, but one thingI do forgetting what is behind
and straining toward what isahead, I press on toward the
goal, to win the prize which Godhas called me heavenward, in
(08:05):
Christ Jesus.
So Paul starts out in thebeginning of this passage and
says listen, if there's anyonewho followed the law, it was me.
I did it.
I did everything the right way.
I was incredibly religious.
I went to church when I wassupposed to.
I prayed the prayers that I wassupposed to.
(08:27):
I stood for the things, evenpersecuting those who I thought
were false believers.
I did everything I could tomaintain my outside appearance
of having my life put together.
I did all of it.
None of you could even touch me.
I did all of it.
(08:48):
None of you could even touch me.
And then he continues and saysbut none of that makes sense.
All of that is garbage.
Now that I've met Jesus andunderstand, I don't think he's
saying that that discipline wasunnecessary, but I think he's
looking at that discipline inlight of a relationship with
Jesus, because he did all thereligious things and still
(09:11):
missed God.
You can go to church everysingle day of your life, from
now until the end of the world,and still have no idea who God
is.
You can drag your kids kickingand screaming, to Sunday school,
the Bible studies, to everyevent we do, and your kids can
(09:34):
still grow up not knowing whoGod is, because just being in
church is not enough.
Just being in a Bible study isnot enough.
These things are important.
Do not get me wrong.
Listen, I stand up here tellingyou I believe going to church
on Sunday morning is important.
I believe it's necessary.
But don't confuse that, becausethat hour and a half on Sunday
(09:59):
morning that we're here maybetwo hours depending on how long
I talk for that two hours onSunday morning does not have the
same impact as what your kidssee when they get home on Sunday
afternoon.
It doesn't have the same impactBecause just following
religious practices, just beingobedient, is not enough.
(10:20):
Good, yes, sufficient, no,there has to be more.
Paul wrestles with this.
He says, listen, I did allthose things, but I look back on
it and I realize now that mylife didn't change until I met
Jesus.
(10:40):
He even says I have to continueto press on because of what God
has done for me.
I'm not quite there yet.
I'm a work in progress.
So, parents, let's start there.
(11:02):
You're a work in progress.
You're not perfect.
I'm not a perfect dad.
I mess up more often than Ilike to admit, but the God who
created me shows me grace, showsme mercy, walks with me.
(11:23):
If God punished me for everybad thing that I did, I wouldn't
be here, but I'm a work inprogress.
Paul argues this.
He's like I'm still learning it.
Parenting isn't about perfection, but it's about pointing our
(11:44):
kids to the same grace that youand I need every day.
We correct our kids, not from apedestal, not you know.
If I brought you in this world,I can take you out of it.
You'll do what I say becauseI'm in charge.
We don't come to our kids withthat approach.
We come to them from a place ofbrokenness and say just as you
(12:08):
have messed up today, so have Imessed up before.
That there's grace for me andthere has to be grace for you.
And I know, listen, I know thatalmost sounds counterproductive,
because, well, we need to teachkids how to behave.
I don't disagree with that.
(12:28):
But if you're never helpingthem understand why it is you're
establishing these behaviors,it's never going to stay.
We're rebellious at our core,like sin has destroyed us.
You and I are rebellious people, so are our kids Right?
You know, the differencebetween you and your kid is your
(12:51):
kid doesn't understand culturestuff yet and social
expectations.
So there are rebellions on fulldisplay.
You and I, we hide it.
Sometimes we hide behind it.
But the point is, when we lookat our kids, do you see someone
who just needs to listen andobey or do you see a child
(13:15):
uniquely created by God thatneeds guidance?
Those are differentconversations.
My wife is a whole lot betterat this than I am, so much so
that it drives me nuts Sometimes.
The other day and I think Dannytalked about this before the
(13:36):
other day I said something youguys just act like a bunch of
children.
And she looked at me and she'slike, yeah, they are.
And I'm like I know, I knowright, but I'm that parent and I
have that frustration when mykids are acting up in public or
they're not doing what they'resupposed to.
By the way, let me just say thisreal quick as a preacher, my
(13:56):
kids are also not perfect, soplease don't hold them to that
standard, because I know theexpectations for preacher kids.
They do all the right things,they lead all the Bible studies.
Nope, they're human beings.
They're still processing life.
My kids will act up in churchsometimes.
We try really hard so thatdoesn't happen, but it does.
(14:20):
My kids are going to makedecisions when they get older
that it's probably going to getback to me because someone saw
something and they called me.
And I'm telling you right now,if your hope is to tell my kids
so I'll discipline them.
It's not going to happen,because when I meet them, when I
talk to them, my first questionis going to be like hey, are
you okay?
What's going on?
(14:40):
What happened?
One of the things that we'vebeen doing lately and it's not
my idea, I took it from someoneelse but anytime we go out in
public, I ask my kids twoquestions and they're getting
annoyed by it, but I don't carebecause I think it's good.
I ask them who they are.
Well, we're clients.
I'm like you're right, that'swho we are.
(15:02):
I'm like who do we represent?
We represent God.
I'm like that's right, that'swho we represent.
And it's not to try to guiltthem or shame them, but it's to
help them understand that theway that they live their life is
a reflection of that.
My kids need to understand whycertain behaviors are expected.
(15:24):
And when it comes todisciplining our kids, I think
if we could see them as again,not simply this person who needs
to obey us, but this personwho's being transformed with our
help, the approach is different.
Proverbs 22.6 says this Startyour children off on the way
(15:47):
they should go, and even whenthey are old they will not turn
from it.
Should go, and even when theyare old they will not turn from
it.
Romans 12 2 says do not conformto the patterns of this world,
but be transformed by therenewing of your mind.
Then you'll be able to test andimprove what God's will is, his
good, pleasing and perfect will.
(16:08):
Paul is writing to this churchand he's saying listen, I did
all of the things and it stillwasn't enough.
And I would almost guaranteeyou know somebody.
And listen, this is not.
I'm not saying this.
So you think about this personbecause you judge them, because
(16:30):
you shouldn't be.
But I know that you knowsomeone who's grown up in the
church and they look nothinglike Jesus, because somewhere
along the line they've missed it.
They weren't transformed, theyjust followed a bunch of rules
and habits.
They were obedient forobedience sake.
This was Paul.
(16:52):
He said I did all the things, Ilistened, I followed the rules.
I was a Hebrew among Hebrews.
No one could match me.
But when I met Christ, Irealized that all of that was
for nothing.
It taught me how to bereligious, but I forgot the fact
(17:14):
that it's not about religion,it's about a relationship.
Paul's life is transformed.
He goes and becomes one of thegreatest missionaries, writes
more books in the New Testamentand the Bible than anyone.
He dies, he gives his life tothe very end.
He dies on behalf of the cross,because this was a man who
(17:39):
understood and he got it.
And I think about all thechurches that he was like a
father figure to.
He oversaw them, he helped them, he guided them.
All of these letters, thepurpose of them, was to
encourage and correct and helpthem refocus Because, again,
(18:00):
when we follow Jesus,transformation is more important
than obedience.
So let me give you an example.
If you have kids, you know for afact that one of them has
broken the other one's toy,whether on purpose or by
accident and my house tends tobe on purpose.
(18:22):
So imagine two kids fighting.
One broke a toy, smashed it,right, you got one kid crying,
losing their mind, the other onewho doesn't really care.
So what's the approach?
I remember when I was youngermy first thought was well, I'm
going to break that kid's toy,give me one of your favorite
(18:45):
toys, I'm going to break it.
That doesn't make sense.
Again doing the same thing tothem that I'm trying to tell
them not to do doesn't makesense.
Again, doing the same thing tothem that I'm trying to tell
them not to do doesn't work.
It actually reinforces the ideathat that's how punishment is
right.
So I could get mad, I couldscream, I could paddle them, I
(19:10):
could yell at them, I couldground them.
And I'll be honest, this isprobably my go to not perfect.
But what if, instead, you had aconversation and said hey,
listen, what happened?
Why did you feel the need tobreak that toy?
(19:32):
Do you understand why yoursibling is upset Like you hurt
them?
Would you like that done to you?
These conversations, I'mtelling you, these conversations
, are hard to have because theyhave to be intentional.
Screaming, paddling, groundingall of those things, in my
(19:56):
opinion, are easy to do.
Well, here's a consequence youdid something wrong.
Now go suffer.
You guys?
Ever seen Malcolm in the Middle?
I used to watch that show whenI was younger and the mom, lois,
was like the best one in theworld for discipline.
We started watching it againrecently.
And the two Lois was like thebest one in the world for
discipline.
We started watching againrecently.
And the two older boys dosomething wrong and she makes
(20:17):
them get down on their kneeswith their hands behind their
head and they have to put theirnose on the wall and they have
to sit there for an hour.
And we were watching this and Iwas like, can we do that?
Like, is that child abuse?
And Danny's like probably.
And again it's funny.
But a lot of times thediscipline we offer, the idea
(20:39):
behind the discipline, isobedience.
It's not about transformation.
It's not about helping them tonecessarily understand that, hey
, listen, this behavior is wrongand here's why.
But all throughout Scripture wesee God.
That's exactly what he doeswith his people.
Yes, he disciplines them, buthe always comes back to trying
(21:03):
to listen.
It's a heart problem.
They're rebellious.
Sin has made them rebellious.
Our kids are rebellious becausesin has corrupted it.
So are we seeking for childrento be obedient or are we seeking
for kids to be like Jesus?
That's a question that you andI have to wrestle with and
(21:29):
that's hard.
And it's hard because in themoment when you're a parent and
you're tired, and it's hardbecause in the moment when
you're a parent and you're tiredand you're frustrated, yelling
at them just makes sense whenyou're overwhelmed.
And for the 70th time that daythey've asked you to do
something you've already saidyou're not doing until next week
(21:50):
.
You're like doing until nextweek.
You're like just stop talking.
But then, when you pay attentionas a parent, you realize that
they actually model yourbehavior more than you think
they do.
And the irony is is they tendto do the actual behavior that
(22:12):
you do more than what you tellthem not to do.
I've seen this in my own kidshey, don't do that, and then
they see me do it, and then theydo it themselves because I
modeled it for them, right?
So discipline is necessary.
I'm not saying you let yourkids go crazy, but discipline
(22:32):
has to be rooted in love and ithas to be rooted in this idea of
transformation.
If you don't think as a parent,unless I'm going to say as
grandparents, grandparents,you're not off the hook here.
I love you guys.
I know some of you spoil yourgrandkids and then you think, oh
, great, great, go home now,you're fine.
(22:54):
But you're not off the hook Ifyou have kids, grandkids listen,
if you're an aunt, you're anuncle.
Same thing applies, man.
It's all across the board.
The kids that are in your life,those are your little disciples
.
You're called to disciple them,to teach them.
(23:15):
I'm called to model for my kidsthe importance of going to
church, the importance ofpraying, the importance of
showing grace and mercy and love, the importance of apologizing
when they make mistakes, and soare you.
Hebrews 12, 6 says because theLord disciplines the one that he
(23:36):
loves and he chastens everyonehe accepts as his son, again,
discipline's necessary.
I'm not saying it's not you.
Discipline your kids if youlove them.
I know that for a fact.
Now they don't always agreewith you.
But then Colossians 3.21 saysFathers, don't embitter your
(23:58):
children or they'll becomediscouraged.
And the passage is sayinglisten, don't overwhelm them,
don't force them just to beobedient, because I don't know
about you, but the more youforce kids to be obedient, the
(24:18):
more rebellious they become.
The more we try to follow afterGod and do what he calls us to
do, the more rebellious webecome.
Because there's somethinginside of us, it's a heart issue
.
It says boundaries and rules areessential tools for parenting.
They provide structure, promotesafety and help children learn
(24:41):
how to navigate the world.
But as children grow, thoseboundaries must also grow with
them.
What's non-negotiable for atoddler, like touching a hot
stove, can become a life skillfor a preteen learning to cook.
So the shift doesn't mean rulesdisappear.
It means that they adapt aschildren mature.
So understanding basic humandevelopment can help parents
(25:04):
know when to enforce limits andwhen to loosen the reins.
It's natural to want to protectour children from harm at every
stage of life, butoverprotection can hinder growth
.
Our role is not only to keepthem safe, but also to help them
become capable, resilientadults.
So this perspective isespecially important during the
(25:24):
adolescent years, whendevelopment can feel
unpredictable or evenfrustrating.
Just because we stop trackingphysical milestones doesn't mean
growth has stopped.
Emotional, social and spiritualdevelopment continues well into
adulthood, and wise parentingadjusts accordingly.
This is something that researchhas shown us, and we talked
(25:47):
about this a little bit lastweek.
The number one factor thatinfluences kids in their
relationship with God and theirrelationship with the church
that they get plugged into asthey get older is mom and dad.
It's not your pastor, it's notthe youth pastor, it's not their
football coach or theirbaseball coach.
It's not even their friendsbelieve it or not, but their
(26:10):
influence as far as their lifegoes and whether or not they
choose to follow Jesus is momand dad.
That's one of the number oneindicators.
If mom and dad are serious andthey follow Jesus the way
they're supposed to, you seethat reflecting their kids.
Now listen, that doesn't alwayshappen.
(26:30):
I'm well aware of that.
I know plenty of really, reallygood parents that have raised
their kids right and their kidswalked away.
It happens Again.
That's the hardest part, Ithink, about being a parent is
eventually your kids have tomake their own decision, but
that still doesn't mean that youshouldn't try to set a
(26:52):
foundation for them.
There's so many, there's so muchresearch that shows that even
kids who wander away from theirfaith find their way back more
often than not because mom anddad set a tone early on.
That was important.
My faith was important to megrowing up, except to Jesus when
(27:13):
I was 15, for like the first 10years of my life.
But my faith really becameimportant when I had kids,
because I realized that I neededto show them what it was to
follow Jesus.
Paul, 1 Corinthians 11, 1 saysfollow my example as I follow
Christ.
Matthew 5, 16 says says in thesame way, let your light shine
(27:36):
before others that they may seeyour good deeds and glorify your
Father in heaven.
It's all about modeling foryour kids what it is to follow
Jesus.
Obedience and discipline is tofollow Jesus.
Obedience and discipline ispart of that.
(28:00):
There's been such a shift inthe world lately about that.
Again, it's funny now growingup, but the way that I was
raised was different than how myparents were raised.
I know that I've hadconversations.
You know, as a guy you were dothis, be tough, be strong,
(28:22):
you'll be fine.
Just deal with it.
I watched the I call him mygrandfather Like biologically he
wasn't, but he might as wellhave been because he had such a
big part of my life when I was ateenager.
I watched this man almost cuthis finger off one time and his
solution was he went to the shed, he got some duct tape and he
(28:44):
wrapped it and he went back towork and I was like I don't
think that's safe.
He's like ah, my dad was atough man and so am I.
I'm like listen, I understandyou're tough, but amputation of
a thumb is going to be rough ifyou lose it.
But there's this idea, and Ithink in parenting just do what
I say, do what you're told to do, don't ask questions, and if
(29:09):
you do that, you'll turn outfine, and then we look ahead and
realize that that's notactually what happened.
And so now we get to theconversations today and people
say, oh, these kids are too soft.
I'm like, listen, don't eversay that about my kids.
First off, you don't know mykids.
Each one of them individuallyis incredibly unique.
(29:30):
My kids aren't soft becausethey're in touch with their
emotions.
My kids aren't soft becausethey can express the fact that
they're angry.
My kids aren't soft becausethey ask us questions sometimes
when we discipline them.
If anything, we've encouragedthem because I want them to be
someone who is transformed intostrong godly men, not just
(29:55):
obedient, because it makeseveryone else feel comfortable.
I discipline my kids that's whatyou're supposed to do but I
care more about their heart thanwhether or not you think my
discipline of my children isacceptable, because here's the
thing I love all of you dearly.
I don't really care if youthink I discipline my kids the
(30:19):
way you think they should bedisciplined.
Guess what?
They're not your kids, not yourresponsibility.
They're mine.
They're my little disciples andI want them to follow Jesus.
I want them to be strong men offaith who lead families, their
wives and their children tofollow Jesus and I think the
best way to do that is to helpthem understand at this age now
(30:42):
why that matters.
So when I ask my kids who are we, I'm not doing it because I
want them to behave.
I want them to understand whothey are.
When I ask my kids, who do wefollow, and they say God, it's
not because I want them to beafraid of God and fear
discipline.
I want them to understand thatthey are living for the one who
(31:05):
created them and that their lifedecisions matter.
My hope and my prayer is, as mykids go into the world, that
every situation they step intothey stop and they say I'm a
Klein and I represent God.
I want them to think that.
I want it to become soingrained in them that that's
(31:26):
exactly who they are, becausethey're human.
They're not perfect.
They're not always going to beobedient.
Again, growing up in this rolewas fun because man people
(31:47):
really like to watch what wecall PK kids.
People really like to go afterministers and say well, you
didn't raise your kids right.
Listen, they are their ownpeople.
I can set the stage, but theycan still rebel.
By the way, god sets theprecedence and you and I still
(32:07):
rebel.
So if you say I'm a bad parent,then you must think God's not
that great either, and I don'tknow if you want to venture down
that road.
God's perfect in everything thathe does.
I'm not, but it doesn't meanthat we can't teach our kids to
follow after the one who is.
(32:28):
It doesn't mean that they won'tmess up.
It doesn't mean that they won'tmess up.
It doesn't mean that they'll beperfect.
But transformation has to bemore important than obedience.
Obedience sake, for obediencesake only produces rebellion.
I can prove it.
We teach kids to follow rules.
(32:52):
As long as they do this, this,this and this, they're going to
be okay, and then, 10 yearslater, they're not okay.
Instead, we have to teach themto look at their life and say
who am I?
And I think so much of thismatters because I think how you
(33:20):
discipline your kids, whetheryou intend to or not, affects
how they see God.
I believe that, and I thinkpart of that has to do with how
do you see God.
I know there's a lot of peoplein churches today who do all the
things.
They say the right thing, theysing the right way, they do
(33:45):
everything they're supposed to,and I think some of that is out
of fear, because if I don't dothis, god's going to discipline
me.
If I don't do this, in mysalvation I'd be at stake.
I've got to keep doing all theright things because I've got to
(34:05):
earn what you can't earn any ofit.
Jesus dying on the cross wasn'tbecause you did the right thing
.
It's because you did all thewrong things and he did the
right thing.
So our view of God, we have toget away from this idea of this
(34:26):
overbearing father figure in thesky.
What do they say when you messup?
Oh, god's going to hit me withlightning.
I've never seen him hit anybodywith lightning on purpose.
Now, I know people have beenhit with lightning.
That's between him and them.
But I hear people say I can'twalk in that church, it'll burn
down.
I'm like, listen, it might, butit's not because of you.
No offense, but don't think sohighly of yourself.
(34:47):
But instead, what if our viewof God is God?
I know that I messed up today.
I'm sorry, god, I'm trying.
I'm trying to do the rightthing.
I'm trying to say the rightthing.
I'm trying to be a betterperson.
(35:08):
I'm going to do better tomorrow.
And what if that's how our kidsfelt when they came home hey
mom, hey dad, I'm sorry that Imessed up.
I know I shouldn't have donethat.
I'm going to do better, I'mgoing to try harder.
(35:33):
It can't just be obedience forobedience sake, because if all
we're trying to do is accomplishobedience, not only do I think
it fosters rebellion, but itfosters deceitfulness.
When a kid feels like they haveto behave all the time because
that's the expectation andthere's no way around it, when
they do mess up, they won't cometalk to you about it, they'll
(35:54):
hide from it, and the momentthat starts happening, satan
starts to creep in and starts toconvince them that they're not
worth it, that they're bad, thatthey're a failure.
I worked in student ministryfor a long time and I had one
girl say to me one time she was15 years old and she had done
something and it wasn't great.
She had done something and itwasn't great, and I said to her
(36:16):
why?
Why?
She said well, that's what theyexpected of me.
I'm like, who expects it of you?
She said well, my family, youpay attention, right, I'm always
the one messing things up.
She's like I stopped trying andI just accepted it, and so I
decided that I was going to liveup to their expectation of me,
because what does it matteranyways?
And that broke me.
(36:40):
And as I become a parent, that'sthe question that I have to
wrestle with is what are myexpectations of my kids?
Do I expect them to be perfect?
No, but do they think that theyneed to be man?
I hope not, because not only isit unattainable but it's
(37:00):
burdensome.
God doesn't expect you to beperfect, he expects you to be
holy.
Now listen, I know that there'sa difference there.
I promise Perfection is you doeverything right all the time,
you never screw up.
Holy is you're constantlyseeking to be like Jesus.
And along the way, you willstumble, you will fall, you will
(37:23):
make mistakes, but, as Paulsays, we press on to the goal,
realizing that we have notachieved it yet.
That's what we have to do withour kids.
It's not about it yet.
That's what we have to do withour kids.
It's not about being obedient.
It's about helping them realizethat their goal was to be like
Jesus.
And we see that modeled inScripture because of the grace
(37:46):
and the love and the mercy thatGod shows us when we fail.
I love this statement.
It says Parenting is hard butit's also holy.
It said you won't always get itright, you'll have days filled
(38:07):
with doubt, frustration andfailure, but just know that
you're not alone.
It said the same Spirit whoraised Jesus from the dead is
alive in you, strengthening.
Just know that you're not alone, that the same spirit who
raised Jesus from the dead isalive in you, strengthening you,
guiding you, reminding you thatGod loves your children even
more than you do.
So keep showing up, keep loving, keep leading with grace,
(38:27):
because every moment offaithfulness, no matter how
small, is planting a seed foreternity.
You're not just raising kids,you're raising disciples, and
the best part is God does itwith you.
Being a parent is hard.
It's the toughest thing I'veever done in my life.
(38:54):
I know my kids, when they getolder, will appreciate Danny and
I more, and I know that becauseit wasn't until I was in my
early 30s that I realized howincredible my mom and my
grandparents were, and I know Italk about my mom a lot.
They said if you don't know mymom, you should get to know her.
She's a pretty awesome person.
But I never really appreciatedmy mom when I was younger
(39:16):
Because I'm a kid man, you don'tappreciate your parents.
When you're a teenager, youthink they're the worst thing in
the world.
Listen, I'm not wrong LikeEverett's at that stage now
where he doesn't like hug us inpublic and I'm like, come on,
man, we're not there yet.
He's like my friends, I'm likeI don't care and I get it right.
He's a human being, he'sgetting there, he's learning and
(39:37):
all those things.
But at the end of the day, myhope for them, beyond being rich
, beyond having a good job,beyond them accomplishing every
dream and thing that they wantto accomplish in their life, my
hope for my kids is they followJesus first and that they raise,
(40:00):
they marry, they leave theirwife like godly men are supposed
to, and that they raise theirkids to follow God too, because
that can be a generational thing.
And here's the thing If you'venever had that in your past, it
doesn't mean you can't have itin your future.
I didn't grow up in the church.
I didn't 15 years old except toJesus, and in the last 10, I've
(40:28):
had the privilege of baptizingpretty much my entire family
into Jesus, right, because,again, just because I didn't
have it in my past doesn't meanI can't have it in my future.
I want my kids to follow God.
It's not about obedience, it'sabout transformation.
Your kids are disciples.
(40:48):
You're leading them.
They're human beings withfeelings and emotions and
challenges, and they're alldifferent.
That's the one thing I'll neverunderstand.
You can raise three kids in thesame house and they're all
different.
It doesn't matter.
They're all different, they'reall unique, they're all created
by God and they all have apurpose.
(41:10):
And for the little bit of timethat you have them in this world
, your one job mom and dad,grandma and grandpa, aunts and
uncles your one job is to showthem Jesus.
That's what matters, becausenothing else you will ever teach
(41:32):
them, will ever have an eternalimpact like that.
Stop trying to force your kidsto behave.
Try to transform them.
Try to focus on helping them bethe little men and women that
(41:52):
God wants them to be.
Help them understand that Godloves them, that he sees them,
that he wants the best for them,not out of obedience, not
because they need to earn hisfavor, because even in their
rebellion, he died for them too.
It's all about transformation.
(42:13):
A strong foundation leads totransformation.
They have to go together.
I don't know what your homelooks like.
I don't.
I don't know how frustrating itis.
I don't know the challenges youhave with your kids.
I'm not even going to give yougood parenting advice because I
(42:35):
don't even think I it is.
I don't know the challenges youhave with your kids.
I'm not even going to give yougood parenting advice because I
don't even think I'm a goodparent sometimes.
But I will tell you that ifyou're not really sure you're
doing the right thing, go to God, trust Him, pray.
Surround yourself with otherpeople that want to raise their
kids to follow Jesus, becausehe's the only one who knows what
(42:59):
they're going to become anyways.
Obedience is easy.
Transformation is the hard part.
All right, let's pray.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.