September 30, 2024 • 35 mins
Can you imagine running without the pressure of hitting a specific pace or mileage? Today, Jen Steele, a certified running coach from California, shares her actionable tips to maintain running fitness, the importance of strength training, and why having a base building season is so important when you're not training for anything. This strategy has helped her and her athletes achieve their race goals more effectively.
Resources from the Episode:
Coach Jen Steele's Off Season Boot Camp- do check this out, it is a unique concept in running groups
Chari Hawkins- Chari is an Olympic runner (who was on the Paris '24 US Team) whose instagram is a gold mine for runners looking to have drills broken down into easy to follow steps
Misadventures of a Marathoner- Coach Jen's website
If you are looking for a coach to help you reach your running goals, even if it's just to start to run, take a look at my Coaching Services page on the website. I do virtual, in-person (Buffalo, NY area) and also offer single zoom sessions for those would just like to chat with a coach one time.
Find my additional outlets over at the YouTube channel and at wrinkledrunner.com. Sign up over on the blog for the once-a-month newsletter! If you would like information on utilizing a running coach, check out what I can do for you here.
If you have any running-related questions, please send an email to sherry@wrinkledrunner.com…I answer every one.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So today on the episode for the Wrinkled Runner,
we have Jen Steele, who is acertified running coach from
California, and she has masteredthe art of what to do when you
are running in your off seasonor if you're not training for a
race.
And what I understand is thatyou've kind of got to this point
(00:25):
through your own story, whichI'd love for you to share for my
listeners, on how you kind oflearned that what to do in your
off season just from your ownpersonal experience.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, of course.
Thank you so much for having me.
So I did not run when I wasgrowing up.
I didn't do any organizedsports soccer a lot.
I think a lot of people getinto running in that way and I
didn't.
I didn't start running until Iwas an adult.
And I started running because afriend invited me to sign up
for a 10k with her and I thought, yeah, I can do a 10.
Like, let's figure this out.
Could not run a mile but I wasgood like down for the six miles
(01:07):
and so I did that and I fell inlove with the race community.
I did a really welcoming,inclusive race, which I think
was really helpful for somebodywho started like as a more back
of the pack runner, and it wasjust a very positive of the pack
runner and it was just a verypositive experience and I loved
(01:27):
it.
So then I jumped up to the halfmarathon, as I think a lot of
people do.
Um, you know, they start withthe 5k or the 10k and then, you
know, half marathon becomes thenorm and I did that for a while
and I would, you know, do a 10week ish training plan, find one
online, download it for free,kind of sort of stick to it,
(01:49):
finish the race and then be like, oh, I am so glad that I am
done, and not really run.
Maybe run once a week with therun club, like my local you know
she runs this town group or afriend would invite me for a
three mile run and I'd go dothat.
But like once, maybe twice aweek, I would do a one mile
(02:10):
neighborhood loop, like nothingstructured or planned.
And then my next training cycle, you know, six months later I
sign up for another halfmarathon and I would want to run
it faster because I had justdone a half marathon.
And then I would get reallyfrustrated when I couldn't run
it faster.
Or you know, you set the sub 215 time goal or the sub two hour
(02:32):
time goal for a half marathonand I kept coming close right,
sitting in those same zones andnot ever being able to like
actually get faster, and that'skind of how I stumbled into this
idea of base building.
And now this was pre becoming arun coach.
Now that I've become a runcoach, you know I can look at
(02:54):
all the science and the researchon why it works and I can
explain it to the athletes thatI coach, like this is why we do
it and this is why it works.
But also my personal story saysthat it like personal
experience it also is true.
So instead of not training forfour months between races, if
(03:16):
you keep consistently doingsomething, then you can actually
build upon your prior racecycle, instead of the kind of
two steps forward, one step backthat often happens, where you
might get a little bit closer tothat goal, but not quite.
And it's because you're notdoing anything in those you know
(03:37):
, couple of months before.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So Right, right, yeah .
And I think it's so interestingwhen you become a run coach you
know, I ran for like 10 yearsbefore really knowing anything
about running either and thenwhen you learn stuff, it's like,
oh, this is so much more funbecause you have some structure
to it.
Are the things that they canincorporate kind of in their off
(04:07):
season or when they're nottraining, to have like to make
it look a little more structuredeven if you're not actually
training for something.
So I love this topic to kind ofintroduce the idea that there
is science behind some of thisand what can a runner do even if
they don't have a coachalthough I think you and I both
think you should have one, butnot everybody is ready to have a
(04:30):
coach.
And so what are some of thethings then that you recommend?
If you're not training for arace, or if you just get done
with a race and you're notreally looking at something in
your future, to kind of staystructured and kind of stay
within that training zone.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I always think it's a really good idea to pick what
kind of mileage feels good andstay with that.
So a lot of people coming outof a marathon or a big half
marathon training cycle, you'renot going to keep up a 40 mile a
week training Like that's justtoo much, but maybe 20 felt
really good and doable.
(05:11):
Or if you were a half marathon,you know, maybe like 12 miles a
week feels really good and youthink that that's something you
can sustain, like commit todoing that instead of letting it
drop to.
You know, a three mile run onthe weekend, like keep some sort
of structure, I think is alwaysa good place to start, after
taking some time off.
(05:32):
Definitely take the week or twoor even a month off but then
ease back into like the mileageper week that felt good in
whatever kind of format.
I think works in your scheduleeasy, whether it's two or three
or four days a week of running.
And then I think this is thetime where you start doing all
of the little things that westop doing when we're building
(05:54):
mileage and intensity andgetting ready for a goal race.
So you're not going to do a lotof speed work anymore, you're
not going to be having thereally long weekend runs anymore
.
So that's the time when you canmake sure you're doing some
consistent strength training.
You know, twice a week you canwork on the drills, you can pay
attention to your running form,you can make sure you're
(06:16):
actually warming up before yourrun, because so often that falls
apart and then we like get allthese niggles and we wonder why.
And it's because your body'sjust tired and you have to
remind it what to do.
So you can start kind ofbuilding those good habits back
in, I think, during the basebuilding phase, which is what.
I like to call the in between.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Okay, okay, yeah, and I think some of what you said
is like so important because youknow, a lot of times if we're
not training for something, weare not paying attention to our
nutrition and our feeling asmuch, and we're not paying
attention to our form or allthose things kind of go by the
wayside, and if we don't havethat stuff written down or we
(06:57):
don't have the right resourcesfor that, then we really don't
know what to do.
So do you have any resourcesthat you like to look to or
advise people to look towardswhen they're in this kind of
in-between stage?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
So there's not a lot of like pre-written plans for
this base building phase thatjust kind of generally apply to
everybody, which is why I liketo say, like, pick the mileage
that feels good in your body andgo with that.
I do like to have, like therunners that I'll coach, I do
like to have them include, likeI said, drills.
(07:36):
Sherry Hawkins, who is anOlympic hip athlete who just
competed, her Instagram forrunning drills is incredible,
like her ability to break down adrill and explain to you the
pieces and the why behind them.
Like you just mentioned, right,you become a seasoned runner or
you become a run coach and youstart learning all this stuff
(07:57):
why behind it.
She is very good at breaking itdown piece by piece.
Um, so her Instagram is amazingand just picking like two things
each week that you are going toadd in.
So are you going to add in adrill this week?
Are you going to add in?
Strides are one of my favoritethings, which is just running
(08:18):
fast, not a sprint, but runningquick with intention for like 20
seconds with a good recovery.
Um, pick two things and then dothat and I will actually
include them in a run instead ofmaking it another thing to do.
Okay, so for drills every mileor every five minutes, like, do
(08:41):
that every five minutes, do astride over the course of your
run, or every five minutes do aa skips drill, something like
that, so it's not adding to thelength of your run, it's not the
one more thing of a warmup thatso often we'll just skip, it's
just part of what you're goingout to do anyways.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I love that.
I love that I I'm going tosteal that for some of my
athletes, because they hateweight warming up.
They hate drills, you know, andif I have it, you know, as part
of the workout, then maybe it'llbe more.
Yeah, I love Sherry Hawkins Irefer people because I cannot do
an, a skip to save my life andher little, the hop that you
(09:22):
know, that the hop thing thatshe reiterates with people is so
good, and so I will send peopleto her and say, okay, watch
this video, because if you watchme, do it, it's, it's.
I just don't have thecoordination for it, but yeah,
there's a reason she's anOlympic athlete.
Exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah, Ilove that, I love that One of
(09:44):
the things that we had kind ofcorresponded about was the low
pressure aspect of education,kind of the in-between thing.
So could you like touch on thata little bit, cause I love that
concept.
For us, you know, as runners,we can be very um a type people
and we got to get it done, andif it, if it says six, we got to
(10:07):
do six, and if it says thispace, we got to do pace.
So can you kind of um talk backsome of the, some of that for,
uh, for some people who mightalways want to run those hard
things hard or the easy thingshard, even too, everything's
hard.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yes.
So I think that that is one ofthe things that draws people to
running right.
There is a plan and you gettold exactly what to do, and
especially when people startworking with a coach, then you
not only get told what to do butyou get told how fast to do it
Right.
So for somebody who likes tolike do which is very much me
somebody who likes to have a boxto check off and say I did the
(10:46):
thing like, it is rewarding andstudies show that it like will
give you a dopamine hit when youget to check the box, and so
making sure that you are givingyourself a time where the focus
is on something different.
So the win is not that you didthis six mile run or that you
did a six mile run at a certainpace, but the win has a
(11:09):
different focus and reallyallowing that to be the goal for
the season.
So all of my runners, when theyare in off season, our runs
stop being by mileage and theystart being by time.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Okay, I was going to ask you about that.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
You are not going for a six mile run because it
doesn't matter how many milesyou're going.
You're going to go run.
Let's assume, because it's easy, that you run a 10 minute mile.
And so if you run about foryour easy effort pace a 10
minute mile, then we're going toput a 40 minute run or a 30
minute run.
And if you only end up getting2.6 miles because it was hills
(11:47):
or you were tired or lifestresses or travel, like cool If
you went for a walk instead,like that's great because you
still moved for 40 minutes andthat was the goal.
And so I think that shift canbe really helpful for people.
When your watch is going to stopbuzzing at you to hit a certain
(12:08):
pace for 40 minutes, like it'sjust going to be what it is.
I also think that, um, for thateasy effort, like not letting
your watch connect to whateveryour coaching platform is, or
it's not going to buzz at you,right?
So if you don't work with acoach or have a coaching
(12:29):
platform, for those of us thatdo when your watch is connected
to it and you're running andyou're supposed to hit a certain
pace, it will yell at you andtell you that you're not doing
it.
And so this connecting thatfeature for the base training
phase, I think can be reallypowerful, because you're not
going to be told that you'redoing something wrong, and I do
(12:50):
think there's something verypowerful to be said for being
able to listen to your body,which so often when we're in
training, especially when wehave a big goal, we stop, we
push through because we want tocheck the box and taking the
time to reconnect with what doeseasy effort on a run actually
(13:10):
feel like?
Or is this actually like have Ibeen running too fast or have I
been running too slow?
Like?
What does this feel like in mybody?
Um, especially now as seasonsare changing and humidity is
dropping in places, right, likethose things change and it'll
change again in the spring whentemperatures heat up again.
Like really remembering whatcertain things are supposed to
(13:33):
feel like and making sure theyfeel good, because if it doesn't
feel good, we shouldn't bedoing this, right?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
so yeah, yeah, yeah.
So so do you work with rpe alot, then, and teaching like
what like a three should feellike, or a five, or is it just
you're feeling good, you'refeeling, you know, less fatigued
than like during training, orhow do you, how do you structure
that or how do you teach that,I guess?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So beyond easy effort running, it's pretty much I'm a
lot of pace work or the stridesthat I mentioned, which are
going to be, you know, a setlittle bit of RPE, but otherwise
it's more like a conversation.
pace is what I use for athletes,which is more helpful than easy
effort, cause sometimes nothingfeels easy, um, I'm training
(14:24):
for a half marathon right nowand I had a speed workout
yesterday and an easy run thismorning and like nothing was
going to feel easy, my legs feellike bricks, um.
But so we talked about likeconversation pace, like can you
run with a friend and talk?
Um, and if they're not somebodywho runs in a social setting,
we talked about like can you humor sing your favorite um TV
(14:46):
theme song?
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
You sing the full house theme song, can you sing
the friends theme song or Bradybench or whatever your show that
you don't have to think toomuch about, but like, can you
hum that or sing that toyourself?
And if you can, great, and ifnot, you probably need to slow
down, even if that means a walkbreak, because a lot of times
we're like, yeah, our PE is five, six, and it's actually not.
(15:12):
They're actually running harderthan that.
So I think you know that havingan actual thing to do is
helpful, whereas watches are sooften wrong about heart rate.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So yeah, yeah, and I I totally agree with you there
and I like how you're, how, Ilike how you teach that as far
as humming or singing or talkingor whatever, because I think
our PE the point of it is kindof the objectiveness of it.
But also we are sometimes notvery good at being objective as
(15:45):
far as what's easy or not, and Ithink sometimes in our heads
we're like, well, this shouldn'tfeel easy.
So I'm going to say it's athree or a four, but I'm really
feeling like it's a seven.
But you know, so I like havingsomething active to do to
actually tell you if it's easyor not, rather than a number in
(16:07):
your head.
You know, I've been running forlike 20 years and so I'm more
used to like the pacing thing.
So I'm always trying to findthat kind of middle ground
between jumping on a bandwagonand putting all the science and
(16:31):
all the things together insteadof just you have to run by VO2
max, you have to run by this,you have to run by this, and
sometimes I think we forget it.
There's so much science outthere and so much stuff that I
think we forget sometimes justto go out and just run, just put
one foot in front of the otherand run, and I think the off
(16:52):
season is such a great time todo that, even if we leave our
watches at home and just go out.
And if we see a pond, you knowwe stop.
We smell the roses, we look atthe ducks, we, you know all the
things and, uh, so I I thinkthat this is such a good topic
for all runners from beginnerwho I think they're in this
(17:13):
great, advantageous place ofbuilding all this stuff now
before they're really entrenchedin.
Well, I've been running for somany years and this is how I do
it, and it's so hard for somepeople to pull back and really
have an off season, which Ithink is important for everybody
to have.
And do you have a kind of arule of thumb as far as time off
(17:36):
have?
And do you have like kind of arule of thumb as far as time off
?
Do you base it on the racesomebody just raced, or how long
they've been running, how muchtraining they've gone through,
or is it a very personal thingof how much time off before you
start the kind of base buildingagain?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
it's a little bit personal and a little bit of all
of the things that youmentioned, and so the biggest
question is like what, what dothey want to do after, right?
So, after a big training cycle,um, depending on the race,
anybody is going to get for a 5ka couple of days off, right, if
they raced it hard, maybe aweek off a marathon, two or
(18:14):
three weeks off hard.
Maybe a week off a marathon,two or three weeks off, um.
And then I will just put inthings that are like optional,
if you want today, um, or justcertain things, um.
And then it comes down to likeknowing the athlete too.
Like, are they somebody whoneeds to have me tell them what
to do?
Are they're going to go backout and do too much, too soon?
(18:36):
Because there are those peopleright who are like great, I just
ran 26 miles.
It's been eight days now.
I'm going to do an orangetheory class and then I'm going
to go for a five mile run.
Like no, you just ran amarathon.
Like slow down, um.
Or people who need to lovinglybe reminded that.
Like, no, their goal, theirfive-year goal, their big, scary
(18:58):
goal over time is to go fromhalf marathon to a marathon,
right.
And so maybe after a goal, half, you know, three weeks or a
month in, it's me checking inlike, hey, you ready to set up a
couple three mile runsconsistently, like let's, you
know, kind of get back to thispoint where you have, you know,
a 10 to 15 mile base.
So I think that really comesdown to kind of knowing the
(19:21):
athlete if they need the pushforward or if they need somebody
to hold them back and tell themlike you're doing too much, too
soon.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, so yeah, and I like that.
That can be reversed.
You know, it's not alwayspeople trying to do too much.
Sometimes it's people doing abig race and then kind of taking
off and needing that nudge ofokay, you know, let's get back
to it.
And I also like the fact that,yeah, if you are wanting to
(19:52):
train for a marathon or halfmarathon or whatever wanting to
train for a marathon or halfmarathon or whatever if you are
doing all these other crosstraining kinds of things, that
factors into your fatigue andfactors into what your body is,
what you're putting your bodythrough, uh, in addition to the
training.
So I think that's somethingthat people also need to be
aware of.
Um, with the cross trainingthing, which kind of brings us
(20:16):
to the extras I call it that wekind of do in between trainings
and I know you talk about that alittle bit of you know the
cross training and the strengthtraining and all that stuff.
So if you could touch on that alittle bit, that'd be great.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, so this is like one of my favorite things to do
is to help people figure outwhat that would actually look
like.
Right, like how do you combinerunning with strength training
so that your runs don't alwaysfeel bad?
Because that is one of thethings that I hear all the time
from people is that they do itand then they're just tired all
(20:56):
the time, or they can't run morethan three miles, or that they
don't want to, but they lovetheir peloton class or their
orange theory or f-45 orwhatever the CrossFit, whatever
the case may be, and I thinkthat there is a way to marry
those things, and it might comedown to like sacrificing a
little bit, like maybe it's oneless orange theory class a week,
(21:23):
or maybe you're doing the bikeinstead of a run, or you have to
make yourself walk instead of arun heaven forbid.
Um, depending on the phase youare in, like there is a way to
make it work, and so, um, one ofthe things that I like to teach
people is like how to structurethat around your runs or how to
structure your run.
So, for the things that I liketo teach people is like how to
structure that around your runsor how to structure your run.
So for the athletes that I havethat like to do orange theory,
we will like double those days.
(21:44):
So they're just adding on likea run warm-up to their orange
theory.
So they're still going to getin a couple miles for the day,
but then the next day is a fullrest day, not adding another run
.
You know you're getting thefull rest day, um, or looking at
how, like a CrossFit class isstructured, like how can we make
sure that you're still gettingsome actual full rest days in um
(22:04):
while still containing that, um, the mileage that you want to
build and the strength that youwant to have, if you want to
have strength training, likewe're going to have hard days
where you're going to do, youknow, your longer runs in a leg
day together and then you'regoing to do upper body the day
before.
So just the way that thingscomplement each other so you're
(22:26):
not constantly feeling fatiguedand like you can't do it anymore
.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Okay, okay, yeah, that that sounds good.
And a lot of times runnersdon't like the extra stuff.
Like you have those who loveall the extra stuff and they're
doing everything you know, sixdays a week they're working out.
And then you have the otherones where strength training is
so hard and doing drills is sohard and focusing on form is so
hard and so kind of getting yourmindset into that.
(22:54):
I think off season you can kindof get some almost motivation
although I don't like that worda lot, because sometimes we're
not motivated to do stuff but westill got to do it anyway.
But I guess the discipline andthe habit to do it is something
that we can really establishduring that off season.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, and that's why I like to build it into the
workouts, right, like buildingthose drills or the form checks.
I have a lot of runners do whatI call a form check run, where
it's the same idea Every fiveminutes.
You can set it so your watchwill have an alarm and you're
just going to check your formfor like 30 seconds not for a
long time, but 30 seconds whereyou're thinking about your form
(23:38):
because otherwise it'sexhausting and your run never
feels fun and it never gets tothat easy effort because you're
constantly thinking about everypart of your body and how it's
supposed to move and it'sterrible.
But if you can just build it into it, then it's easy.
Easy.
Quote, unquote right, itbecomes easy for it to be more
disciplined and more of a habit.
The same with strength training.
Like nothing crazy.
A lot of my runners who don'tstrength train hate the gym.
(24:00):
I start them with a cool downroutine that is 30 seconds of
plank One time they do one 30second plank and one 20 second
side plank on each side andthat's it.
That's their strength trainingfor the day.
And then the other day is 20lunges or 10 lunges on each side
and 20 squats and that's it.
(24:21):
Body weight only.
Like we are starting with thebasics.
It's less than five minutesbecause they're less likely to
skip it and it's really not adeal to add that much in,
whereas if you start tellingsomebody that they have to do a
30 minute strength workout andthey don't have weights, they
don't belong to a gym and theyhate it.
They're just going to skip itevery time.
(24:43):
So, like, lower the barrier toentry and make it so that it's
something that doesn't takeextra time is not something
that's so terrible, like we canall do anything for like three
minutes, and those are thethings that are going to help
along the way for a run, right.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
I love that Kind of switchinggears just a little bit with the
off-season thing.
You also mentioned injuryprevention, so can you talk a
little bit about how this is sobeneficial for us as far as the
injury prevention, in havingthis kind of structured off
(25:22):
season but backing off and goingeasy?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
so there's kind of two shoots, right.
We've been talking about liketwo very distinct groups of
runners.
There's the runners who do toomuch too soon and then there's
the runners who don't doanything between training cycles
, right.
And so for the people who domuch too too too much, too soon,
you're going to prevent a lotof those overuse injuries.
(25:47):
So the tendonitis, the Achillespain, the IT band syndrome, the
runner's knee, all of thatstuff that just adds up over
time.
If you run a marathon and thenyou're back to doing 50 mile
weeks a couple of weeks later,like you're very much risking
(26:07):
those kinds of injuries frombuilding up.
So giving yourself a time torest and focus on the form, the
mobility, the strength trainingwill help prevent those.
And then, on the other side,when we are tackling these big
run goals, for somebody whodoesn't like to do anything in
between and I say big meaning,regardless of what, that is
(26:30):
right, whether you're going torun a 10K or a 5K or a half
marathon, a marathon, if youhave a goal that you are trying
to run towards, whatever it is,if you'd go from doing nothing
and then you're going to buildmileage and intensity at the
same time, you're talking aboutthe same overuse injuries that
this same person that's running50 miles a week, a couple miles
(26:50):
after a marathon, is doing,right, um, so it's very
different reasons why andstories, but it's the same sort
of injuries that are going toplague and happen in those same
runners.
And so if we can lower thepeople who want to do too much
too soon and slowly bring up thepeople who want to chase these
gold and continuing trainingcycle, it helps to just make
(27:13):
sure that everything is kind ofmore even across the board,
because we want overall ourtraining to end like slight
uphill right, not a huge steepmountain and not going from
nothing, to straight up.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
So right, yeah, good, good, I think that's a great
reminder for wherever you are onthe spectrum.
As far as too much or toolittle.
I think that that's a goodreminder because nobody wants
injuries and to take you out andsideline you for a length of
time.
Can you talk just a little bitabout the transition between an
(27:52):
offseason into where you're kindof training for something or
you're trying to ramp up therunning a little bit?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
So I think for a lot of that it's going to start with
increasing your mileage,because the rest of it doesn't.
Most training plans will buildmileage and intensity at the
same time, because most peoplewill do a 12 week training cycle
and they get the 12 week plan.
They download it free online oreven pay for it, and it's 12 to
(28:23):
18 weeks right, depending onwhat plan you have, and that's
what you're going to do.
And the plan starts with a, youknow, five mile long run.
So that's what you do when youjust kind of go for it, and so
the base building allows you toactually not have to increase
mileage at the beginning of aplan.
You're like wait, I'm alreadyrunning more than this plan says
to run, which is a great thing,because now it or you would
(28:46):
base it off of, you know thelast race you ran, which isn't
really your current fitnessanymore, because it's been three
months, um which you shouldtake time between races.
(29:09):
You should not do back-to-backtraining cycles and races, um,
you want to have that in betweentime.
You just don't want to losefitness during that time, which
is why I'm a huge fan of thebase building cycle, so just
slowly ramping up the mileage sothat, when it is time, you can
add speed work without having toincrease mileage and just jump
(29:31):
right in okay, I like that a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
I like that, that concept of guiding people to
kind of hit that in basetraining so that they are where
they kind of need to be at thestart of training, because so
many people they back way offand then they jump right up and
then they back way off and thenthey jump right up and don't
understand why they're not PRingand don't understand why things
(29:57):
are feeling so hard.
When I ran this last year atthis, you know time and pace and
and everything kind of buildson each other and it's it's
really important, I think, forpeople to grasp that, which is
why I think coaching is so good.
And I think now, nowadays, thefact that anybody can have a
(30:19):
coach something that I nevereven dreamed of 20 years ago, it
didn't even cross my mind thatI could have had a coach and now
it's just so accessible foreverybody people to even be
listening to what our coachesare saying, even if they don't
sign up or pay for it, to beable to pay attention to some of
(30:42):
this stuff, so that they haveit in their own mind I think is
super important.
And one thing that you do whichI find really fascinating is
this off-season bootcamp thingthat you have.
So can you tell us a little bitabout that, how people can get
involved in that, what it lookslike?
That's really intriguing to me.
(31:02):
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
So I have a.
It's kind of in between the bigrace seasons, so it'll start in
mid-October when people startkind of finishing their big fall
races and we'll run throughDecember, because then in
January most people know setsome new year's goals with some
big races, um, and so it is ait's just a four weeks at a time
(31:25):
bootcamp where you get the waythat I was talking about how I
structure those training plansthe runs that have the form
checks, the runs with the drillsthrown in.
You get a schedule thatprovides all of that for you and
if you have a strength trainingprogram that you enjoy, I will
help you customize it so that isprogrammed in for you.
(31:47):
If you have classes you like, Iwill help you put that into the
schedule the right way anddon't, I will help give you
those very simple short strengthkind of mobility workouts that
I was talking about, and then wekind of all do it together so
that you are getting help withthe motivation right.
It's all virtual, so I'm notactually there to hold your hand
(32:10):
and make sure you show up, butthere is a group and a chat and
we are making sure that you.
You know we're.
I'm going to check in with you.
There are other people doing itwith you.
We're talking about kind of whyyou might be doing this, things
that you're having a hard timewith, or why those things are
coming up, and then I share kindof a little bit of the science
(32:30):
and the why behind it.
So why we're doing these drills, why this works for easy
running some more easy runningtips, why you want to build your
base, what aerobic changes youmight be seeing, how you can use
that kind of an expandedversion of everything we've
talked about here today.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Okay, yeah, I think that is so helpful and it's
unique.
I've never heard anybody dothat and take that approach
before and really, from a runcoach perspective, look at it as
an in-between kind of seasonsand in-between training thing.
So I think that's unique and Ithink it's really, really great.
(33:09):
I think it would be awesome foranybody who's listening to
really take advantage of that.
Now where can they go to findthis online to really take
advantage of that?
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Now, where can they go to find this online?
So I am, misadventures of amarathoner is my website, and
there is a whole page there withall of the stuff, and you can
also find me at that handle onInstagram too, and I have all of
the details there for you.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Okay, great, and I will put that in the show notes
as well so people can go and andcheck that out.
So I want to thank you so muchfor joining me today.
I think this has been sohelpful, as, from one coach to
another, I think you've actuallygiven me some ideas.
So I really appreciate chattingwith you and I would encourage
(33:55):
anyone to go to the website,especially take a look at that
boot camp.
And do you also do virtualcoaching as well, for like
training?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, most of my coaching is virtual.
I have a training club thatwill launch again in the winter
and then one-on-one coaching aswell.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Okay, all right.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me today.
I am thrilled to have been ableto talk to you, and I know it's
going to be beneficial for mylisteners.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
I really appreciate it Okay, thank you.
So today on the episode for the Wrinkled Runner,
we have Jen Steele, who is acertified running coach from
California, and she has masteredthe art of what to do when you
are running in your off seasonor if you're not training for a
race.
And what I understand is thatyou've kind of got to this point
(00:25):
through your own story, whichI'd love for you to share for my
listeners, on how you kind oflearned that what to do in your
off season just from your ownpersonal experience.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, of course.
Thank you so much for having me.
So I did not run when I wasgrowing up.
I didn't do any organizedsports soccer a lot.
I think a lot of people getinto running in that way and I
didn't.
I didn't start running until Iwas an adult.
And I started running because afriend invited me to sign up
for a 10k with her and I thought, yeah, I can do a 10.
Like, let's figure this out.
Could not run a mile but I wasgood like down for the six miles
(01:07):
and so I did that and I fell inlove with the race community.
I did a really welcoming,inclusive race, which I think
was really helpful for somebodywho started like as a more back
of the pack runner, and it wasjust a very positive of the pack
runner and it was just a verypositive experience and I loved
(01:27):
it.
So then I jumped up to the halfmarathon, as I think a lot of
people do.
Um, you know, they start withthe 5k or the 10k and then, you
know, half marathon becomes thenorm and I did that for a while
and I would, you know, do a 10week ish training plan, find one
online, download it for free,kind of sort of stick to it,
(01:49):
finish the race and then be like, oh, I am so glad that I am
done, and not really run.
Maybe run once a week with therun club, like my local you know
she runs this town group or afriend would invite me for a
three mile run and I'd go dothat.
But like once, maybe twice aweek, I would do a one mile
(02:10):
neighborhood loop, like nothingstructured or planned.
And then my next training cycle, you know, six months later I
sign up for another halfmarathon and I would want to run
it faster because I had justdone a half marathon.
And then I would get reallyfrustrated when I couldn't run
it faster.
Or you know, you set the sub 215 time goal or the sub two hour
(02:32):
time goal for a half marathonand I kept coming close right,
sitting in those same zones andnot ever being able to like
actually get faster, and that'skind of how I stumbled into this
idea of base building.
And now this was pre becoming arun coach.
Now that I've become a runcoach, you know I can look at
(02:54):
all the science and the researchon why it works and I can
explain it to the athletes thatI coach, like this is why we do
it and this is why it works.
But also my personal story saysthat it like personal
experience it also is true.
So instead of not training forfour months between races, if
(03:16):
you keep consistently doingsomething, then you can actually
build upon your prior racecycle, instead of the kind of
two steps forward, one step backthat often happens, where you
might get a little bit closer tothat goal, but not quite.
And it's because you're notdoing anything in those you know
(03:37):
, couple of months before.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So Right, right, yeah .
And I think it's so interestingwhen you become a run coach you
know, I ran for like 10 yearsbefore really knowing anything
about running either and thenwhen you learn stuff, it's like,
oh, this is so much more funbecause you have some structure
to it.
Are the things that they canincorporate kind of in their off
(04:07):
season or when they're nottraining, to have like to make
it look a little more structuredeven if you're not actually
training for something.
So I love this topic to kind ofintroduce the idea that there
is science behind some of thisand what can a runner do even if
they don't have a coachalthough I think you and I both
think you should have one, butnot everybody is ready to have a
(04:30):
coach.
And so what are some of thethings then that you recommend?
If you're not training for arace, or if you just get done
with a race and you're notreally looking at something in
your future, to kind of staystructured and kind of stay
within that training zone.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I always think it's a really good idea to pick what
kind of mileage feels good andstay with that.
So a lot of people coming outof a marathon or a big half
marathon training cycle, you'renot going to keep up a 40 mile a
week training Like that's justtoo much, but maybe 20 felt
really good and doable.
(05:11):
Or if you were a half marathon,you know, maybe like 12 miles a
week feels really good and youthink that that's something you
can sustain, like commit todoing that instead of letting it
drop to.
You know, a three mile run onthe weekend, like keep some sort
of structure, I think is alwaysa good place to start, after
taking some time off.
(05:32):
Definitely take the week or twoor even a month off but then
ease back into like the mileageper week that felt good in
whatever kind of format.
I think works in your scheduleeasy, whether it's two or three
or four days a week of running.
And then I think this is thetime where you start doing all
of the little things that westop doing when we're building
(05:54):
mileage and intensity andgetting ready for a goal race.
So you're not going to do a lotof speed work anymore, you're
not going to be having thereally long weekend runs anymore
.
So that's the time when you canmake sure you're doing some
consistent strength training.
You know, twice a week you canwork on the drills, you can pay
attention to your running form,you can make sure you're
(06:16):
actually warming up before yourrun, because so often that falls
apart and then we like get allthese niggles and we wonder why.
And it's because your body'sjust tired and you have to
remind it what to do.
So you can start kind ofbuilding those good habits back
in, I think, during the basebuilding phase, which is what.
I like to call the in between.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Okay, okay, yeah, and I think some of what you said
is like so important because youknow, a lot of times if we're
not training for something, weare not paying attention to our
nutrition and our feeling asmuch, and we're not paying
attention to our form or allthose things kind of go by the
wayside, and if we don't havethat stuff written down or we
(06:57):
don't have the right resourcesfor that, then we really don't
know what to do.
So do you have any resourcesthat you like to look to or
advise people to look towardswhen they're in this kind of
in-between stage?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
So there's not a lot of like pre-written plans for
this base building phase thatjust kind of generally apply to
everybody, which is why I liketo say, like, pick the mileage
that feels good in your body andgo with that.
I do like to have, like therunners that I'll coach, I do
like to have them include, likeI said, drills.
(07:36):
Sherry Hawkins, who is anOlympic hip athlete who just
competed, her Instagram forrunning drills is incredible,
like her ability to break down adrill and explain to you the
pieces and the why behind them.
Like you just mentioned, right,you become a seasoned runner or
you become a run coach and youstart learning all this stuff
(07:57):
why behind it.
She is very good at breaking itdown piece by piece.
Um, so her Instagram is amazingand just picking like two things
each week that you are going toadd in.
So are you going to add in adrill this week?
Are you going to add in?
Strides are one of my favoritethings, which is just running
(08:18):
fast, not a sprint, but runningquick with intention for like 20
seconds with a good recovery.
Um, pick two things and then dothat and I will actually
include them in a run instead ofmaking it another thing to do.
Okay, so for drills every mileor every five minutes, like, do
(08:41):
that every five minutes, do astride over the course of your
run, or every five minutes do aa skips drill, something like
that, so it's not adding to thelength of your run, it's not the
one more thing of a warmup thatso often we'll just skip, it's
just part of what you're goingout to do anyways.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I love that.
I love that I I'm going tosteal that for some of my
athletes, because they hateweight warming up.
They hate drills, you know, andif I have it, you know, as part
of the workout, then maybe it'llbe more.
Yeah, I love Sherry Hawkins Irefer people because I cannot do
an, a skip to save my life andher little, the hop that you
(09:22):
know, that the hop thing thatshe reiterates with people is so
good, and so I will send peopleto her and say, okay, watch
this video, because if you watchme, do it, it's, it's.
I just don't have thecoordination for it, but yeah,
there's a reason she's anOlympic athlete.
Exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah, Ilove that, I love that One of
(09:44):
the things that we had kind ofcorresponded about was the low
pressure aspect of education,kind of the in-between thing.
So could you like touch on thata little bit, cause I love that
concept.
For us, you know, as runners,we can be very um a type people
and we got to get it done, andif it, if it says six, we got to
(10:07):
do six, and if it says thispace, we got to do pace.
So can you kind of um talk backsome of the, some of that for,
uh, for some people who mightalways want to run those hard
things hard or the easy thingshard, even too, everything's
hard.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yes.
So I think that that is one ofthe things that draws people to
running right.
There is a plan and you gettold exactly what to do, and
especially when people startworking with a coach, then you
not only get told what to do butyou get told how fast to do it
Right.
So for somebody who likes tolike do which is very much me
somebody who likes to have a boxto check off and say I did the
(10:46):
thing like, it is rewarding andstudies show that it like will
give you a dopamine hit when youget to check the box, and so
making sure that you are givingyourself a time where the focus
is on something different.
So the win is not that you didthis six mile run or that you
did a six mile run at a certainpace, but the win has a
(11:09):
different focus and reallyallowing that to be the goal for
the season.
So all of my runners, when theyare in off season, our runs
stop being by mileage and theystart being by time.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Okay, I was going to ask you about that.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
You are not going for a six mile run because it
doesn't matter how many milesyou're going.
You're going to go run.
Let's assume, because it's easy, that you run a 10 minute mile.
And so if you run about foryour easy effort pace a 10
minute mile, then we're going toput a 40 minute run or a 30
minute run.
And if you only end up getting2.6 miles because it was hills
(11:47):
or you were tired or lifestresses or travel, like cool If
you went for a walk instead,like that's great because you
still moved for 40 minutes andthat was the goal.
And so I think that shift canbe really helpful for people.
When your watch is going to stopbuzzing at you to hit a certain
(12:08):
pace for 40 minutes, like it'sjust going to be what it is.
I also think that, um, for thateasy effort, like not letting
your watch connect to whateveryour coaching platform is, or
it's not going to buzz at you,right?
So if you don't work with acoach or have a coaching
(12:29):
platform, for those of us thatdo when your watch is connected
to it and you're running andyou're supposed to hit a certain
pace, it will yell at you andtell you that you're not doing
it.
And so this connecting thatfeature for the base training
phase, I think can be reallypowerful, because you're not
going to be told that you'redoing something wrong, and I do
(12:50):
think there's something verypowerful to be said for being
able to listen to your body,which so often when we're in
training, especially when wehave a big goal, we stop, we
push through because we want tocheck the box and taking the
time to reconnect with what doeseasy effort on a run actually
(13:10):
feel like?
Or is this actually like have Ibeen running too fast or have I
been running too slow?
Like?
What does this feel like in mybody?
Um, especially now as seasonsare changing and humidity is
dropping in places, right, likethose things change and it'll
change again in the spring whentemperatures heat up again.
Like really remembering whatcertain things are supposed to
(13:33):
feel like and making sure theyfeel good, because if it doesn't
feel good, we shouldn't bedoing this, right?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
so yeah, yeah, yeah.
So so do you work with rpe alot, then, and teaching like
what like a three should feellike, or a five, or is it just
you're feeling good, you'refeeling, you know, less fatigued
than like during training, orhow do you, how do you structure
that or how do you teach that,I guess?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So beyond easy effort running, it's pretty much I'm a
lot of pace work or the stridesthat I mentioned, which are
going to be, you know, a setlittle bit of RPE, but otherwise
it's more like a conversation.
pace is what I use for athletes,which is more helpful than easy
effort, cause sometimes nothingfeels easy, um, I'm training
(14:24):
for a half marathon right nowand I had a speed workout
yesterday and an easy run thismorning and like nothing was
going to feel easy, my legs feellike bricks, um.
But so we talked about likeconversation pace, like can you
run with a friend and talk?
Um, and if they're not somebodywho runs in a social setting,
we talked about like can you humor sing your favorite um TV
(14:46):
theme song?
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
You sing the full house theme song, can you sing
the friends theme song or Bradybench or whatever your show that
you don't have to think toomuch about, but like, can you
hum that or sing that toyourself?
And if you can, great, and ifnot, you probably need to slow
down, even if that means a walkbreak, because a lot of times
we're like, yeah, our PE is five, six, and it's actually not.
(15:12):
They're actually running harderthan that.
So I think you know that havingan actual thing to do is
helpful, whereas watches are sooften wrong about heart rate.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So yeah, yeah, and I I totally agree with you there
and I like how you're, how, Ilike how you teach that as far
as humming or singing or talkingor whatever, because I think
our PE the point of it is kindof the objectiveness of it.
But also we are sometimes notvery good at being objective as
(15:45):
far as what's easy or not, and Ithink sometimes in our heads
we're like, well, this shouldn'tfeel easy.
So I'm going to say it's athree or a four, but I'm really
feeling like it's a seven.
But you know, so I like havingsomething active to do to
actually tell you if it's easyor not, rather than a number in
(16:07):
your head.
You know, I've been running forlike 20 years and so I'm more
used to like the pacing thing.
So I'm always trying to findthat kind of middle ground
between jumping on a bandwagonand putting all the science and
(16:31):
all the things together insteadof just you have to run by VO2
max, you have to run by this,you have to run by this, and
sometimes I think we forget it.
There's so much science outthere and so much stuff that I
think we forget sometimes justto go out and just run, just put
one foot in front of the otherand run, and I think the off
(16:52):
season is such a great time todo that, even if we leave our
watches at home and just go out.
And if we see a pond, you knowwe stop.
We smell the roses, we look atthe ducks, we, you know all the
things and, uh, so I I thinkthat this is such a good topic
for all runners from beginnerwho I think they're in this
(17:13):
great, advantageous place ofbuilding all this stuff now
before they're really entrenchedin.
Well, I've been running for somany years and this is how I do
it, and it's so hard for somepeople to pull back and really
have an off season, which Ithink is important for everybody
to have.
And do you have a kind of arule of thumb as far as time off
(17:36):
have?
And do you have like kind of arule of thumb as far as time off
?
Do you base it on the racesomebody just raced, or how long
they've been running, how muchtraining they've gone through,
or is it a very personal thingof how much time off before you
start the kind of base buildingagain?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
it's a little bit personal and a little bit of all
of the things that youmentioned, and so the biggest
question is like what, what dothey want to do after, right?
So, after a big training cycle,um, depending on the race,
anybody is going to get for a 5ka couple of days off, right, if
they raced it hard, maybe aweek off a marathon, two or
(18:14):
three weeks off hard.
Maybe a week off a marathon,two or three weeks off, um.
And then I will just put inthings that are like optional,
if you want today, um, or justcertain things, um.
And then it comes down to likeknowing the athlete too.
Like, are they somebody whoneeds to have me tell them what
to do?
Are they're going to go backout and do too much, too soon?
(18:36):
Because there are those peopleright who are like great, I just
ran 26 miles.
It's been eight days now.
I'm going to do an orangetheory class and then I'm going
to go for a five mile run.
Like no, you just ran amarathon.
Like slow down, um.
Or people who need to lovinglybe reminded that.
Like, no, their goal, theirfive-year goal, their big, scary
(18:58):
goal over time is to go fromhalf marathon to a marathon,
right.
And so maybe after a goal, half, you know, three weeks or a
month in, it's me checking inlike, hey, you ready to set up a
couple three mile runsconsistently, like let's, you
know, kind of get back to thispoint where you have, you know,
a 10 to 15 mile base.
So I think that really comesdown to kind of knowing the
(19:21):
athlete if they need the pushforward or if they need somebody
to hold them back and tell themlike you're doing too much, too
soon.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, so yeah, and I like that.
That can be reversed.
You know, it's not alwayspeople trying to do too much.
Sometimes it's people doing abig race and then kind of taking
off and needing that nudge ofokay, you know, let's get back
to it.
And I also like the fact that,yeah, if you are wanting to
(19:52):
train for a marathon or halfmarathon or whatever wanting to
train for a marathon or halfmarathon or whatever if you are
doing all these other crosstraining kinds of things, that
factors into your fatigue andfactors into what your body is,
what you're putting your bodythrough, uh, in addition to the
training.
So I think that's somethingthat people also need to be
aware of.
Um, with the cross trainingthing, which kind of brings us
(20:16):
to the extras I call it that wekind of do in between trainings
and I know you talk about that alittle bit of you know the
cross training and the strengthtraining and all that stuff.
So if you could touch on that alittle bit, that'd be great.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, so this is like one of my favorite things to do
is to help people figure outwhat that would actually look
like.
Right, like how do you combinerunning with strength training
so that your runs don't alwaysfeel bad?
Because that is one of thethings that I hear all the time
from people is that they do itand then they're just tired all
(20:56):
the time, or they can't run morethan three miles, or that they
don't want to, but they lovetheir peloton class or their
orange theory or f-45 orwhatever the CrossFit, whatever
the case may be, and I thinkthat there is a way to marry
those things, and it might comedown to like sacrificing a
little bit, like maybe it's oneless orange theory class a week,
(21:23):
or maybe you're doing the bikeinstead of a run, or you have to
make yourself walk instead of arun heaven forbid.
Um, depending on the phase youare in, like there is a way to
make it work, and so, um, one ofthe things that I like to teach
people is like how to structurethat around your runs or how to
structure your run.
So, for the things that I liketo teach people is like how to
structure that around your runsor how to structure your run.
So for the athletes that I havethat like to do orange theory,
we will like double those days.
(21:44):
So they're just adding on likea run warm-up to their orange
theory.
So they're still going to getin a couple miles for the day,
but then the next day is a fullrest day, not adding another run
.
You know you're getting thefull rest day, um, or looking at
how, like a CrossFit class isstructured, like how can we make
sure that you're still gettingsome actual full rest days in um
(22:04):
while still containing that, um, the mileage that you want to
build and the strength that youwant to have, if you want to
have strength training, likewe're going to have hard days
where you're going to do, youknow, your longer runs in a leg
day together and then you'regoing to do upper body the day
before.
So just the way that thingscomplement each other so you're
(22:26):
not constantly feeling fatiguedand like you can't do it anymore
.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Okay, okay, yeah, that that sounds good.
And a lot of times runnersdon't like the extra stuff.
Like you have those who loveall the extra stuff and they're
doing everything you know, sixdays a week they're working out.
And then you have the otherones where strength training is
so hard and doing drills is sohard and focusing on form is so
hard and so kind of getting yourmindset into that.
(22:54):
I think off season you can kindof get some almost motivation
although I don't like that worda lot, because sometimes we're
not motivated to do stuff but westill got to do it anyway.
But I guess the discipline andthe habit to do it is something
that we can really establishduring that off season.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, and that's why I like to build it into the
workouts, right, like buildingthose drills or the form checks.
I have a lot of runners do whatI call a form check run, where
it's the same idea Every fiveminutes.
You can set it so your watchwill have an alarm and you're
just going to check your formfor like 30 seconds not for a
long time, but 30 seconds whereyou're thinking about your form
(23:38):
because otherwise it'sexhausting and your run never
feels fun and it never gets tothat easy effort because you're
constantly thinking about everypart of your body and how it's
supposed to move and it'sterrible.
But if you can just build it into it, then it's easy.
Easy.
Quote, unquote right, itbecomes easy for it to be more
disciplined and more of a habit.
The same with strength training.
Like nothing crazy.
A lot of my runners who don'tstrength train hate the gym.
(24:00):
I start them with a cool downroutine that is 30 seconds of
plank One time they do one 30second plank and one 20 second
side plank on each side andthat's it.
That's their strength trainingfor the day.
And then the other day is 20lunges or 10 lunges on each side
and 20 squats and that's it.
(24:21):
Body weight only.
Like we are starting with thebasics.
It's less than five minutesbecause they're less likely to
skip it and it's really not adeal to add that much in,
whereas if you start tellingsomebody that they have to do a
30 minute strength workout andthey don't have weights, they
don't belong to a gym and theyhate it.
They're just going to skip itevery time.
(24:43):
So, like, lower the barrier toentry and make it so that it's
something that doesn't takeextra time is not something
that's so terrible, like we canall do anything for like three
minutes, and those are thethings that are going to help
along the way for a run, right.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
I love that Kind of switchinggears just a little bit with the
off-season thing.
You also mentioned injuryprevention, so can you talk a
little bit about how this is sobeneficial for us as far as the
injury prevention, in havingthis kind of structured off
(25:22):
season but backing off and goingeasy?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
so there's kind of two shoots, right.
We've been talking about liketwo very distinct groups of
runners.
There's the runners who do toomuch too soon and then there's
the runners who don't doanything between training cycles
, right.
And so for the people who domuch too too too much, too soon,
you're going to prevent a lotof those overuse injuries.
(25:47):
So the tendonitis, the Achillespain, the IT band syndrome, the
runner's knee, all of thatstuff that just adds up over
time.
If you run a marathon and thenyou're back to doing 50 mile
weeks a couple of weeks later,like you're very much risking
(26:07):
those kinds of injuries frombuilding up.
So giving yourself a time torest and focus on the form, the
mobility, the strength trainingwill help prevent those.
And then, on the other side,when we are tackling these big
run goals, for somebody whodoesn't like to do anything in
between and I say big meaning,regardless of what, that is
(26:30):
right, whether you're going torun a 10K or a 5K or a half
marathon, a marathon, if youhave a goal that you are trying
to run towards, whatever it is,if you'd go from doing nothing
and then you're going to buildmileage and intensity at the
same time, you're talking aboutthe same overuse injuries that
this same person that's running50 miles a week, a couple miles
(26:50):
after a marathon, is doing,right, um, so it's very
different reasons why andstories, but it's the same sort
of injuries that are going toplague and happen in those same
runners.
And so if we can lower thepeople who want to do too much
too soon and slowly bring up thepeople who want to chase these
gold and continuing trainingcycle, it helps to just make
(27:13):
sure that everything is kind ofmore even across the board,
because we want overall ourtraining to end like slight
uphill right, not a huge steepmountain and not going from
nothing, to straight up.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
So right, yeah, good, good, I think that's a great
reminder for wherever you are onthe spectrum.
As far as too much or toolittle.
I think that that's a goodreminder because nobody wants
injuries and to take you out andsideline you for a length of
time.
Can you talk just a little bitabout the transition between an
(27:52):
offseason into where you're kindof training for something or
you're trying to ramp up therunning a little bit?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
So I think for a lot of that it's going to start with
increasing your mileage,because the rest of it doesn't.
Most training plans will buildmileage and intensity at the
same time, because most peoplewill do a 12 week training cycle
and they get the 12 week plan.
They download it free online oreven pay for it, and it's 12 to
(28:23):
18 weeks right, depending onwhat plan you have, and that's
what you're going to do.
And the plan starts with a, youknow, five mile long run.
So that's what you do when youjust kind of go for it, and so
the base building allows you toactually not have to increase
mileage at the beginning of aplan.
You're like wait, I'm alreadyrunning more than this plan says
to run, which is a great thing,because now it or you would
(28:46):
base it off of, you know thelast race you ran, which isn't
really your current fitnessanymore, because it's been three
months, um which you shouldtake time between races.
(29:09):
You should not do back-to-backtraining cycles and races, um,
you want to have that in betweentime.
You just don't want to losefitness during that time, which
is why I'm a huge fan of thebase building cycle, so just
slowly ramping up the mileage sothat, when it is time, you can
add speed work without having toincrease mileage and just jump
(29:31):
right in okay, I like that a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
I like that, that concept of guiding people to
kind of hit that in basetraining so that they are where
they kind of need to be at thestart of training, because so
many people they back way offand then they jump right up and
then they back way off and thenthey jump right up and don't
understand why they're not PRingand don't understand why things
(29:57):
are feeling so hard.
When I ran this last year atthis, you know time and pace and
and everything kind of buildson each other and it's it's
really important, I think, forpeople to grasp that, which is
why I think coaching is so good.
And I think now, nowadays, thefact that anybody can have a
(30:19):
coach something that I nevereven dreamed of 20 years ago, it
didn't even cross my mind thatI could have had a coach and now
it's just so accessible foreverybody people to even be
listening to what our coachesare saying, even if they don't
sign up or pay for it, to beable to pay attention to some of
(30:42):
this stuff, so that they haveit in their own mind I think is
super important.
And one thing that you do whichI find really fascinating is
this off-season bootcamp thingthat you have.
So can you tell us a little bitabout that, how people can get
involved in that, what it lookslike?
That's really intriguing to me.
(31:02):
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
So I have a.
It's kind of in between the bigrace seasons, so it'll start in
mid-October when people startkind of finishing their big fall
races and we'll run throughDecember, because then in
January most people know setsome new year's goals with some
big races, um, and so it is ait's just a four weeks at a time
(31:25):
bootcamp where you get the waythat I was talking about how I
structure those training plansthe runs that have the form
checks, the runs with the drillsthrown in.
You get a schedule thatprovides all of that for you and
if you have a strength trainingprogram that you enjoy, I will
help you customize it so that isprogrammed in for you.
(31:47):
If you have classes you like, Iwill help you put that into the
schedule the right way anddon't, I will help give you
those very simple short strengthkind of mobility workouts that
I was talking about, and then wekind of all do it together so
that you are getting help withthe motivation right.
It's all virtual, so I'm notactually there to hold your hand
(32:10):
and make sure you show up, butthere is a group and a chat and
we are making sure that you.
You know we're.
I'm going to check in with you.
There are other people doing itwith you.
We're talking about kind of whyyou might be doing this, things
that you're having a hard timewith, or why those things are
coming up, and then I share kindof a little bit of the science
(32:30):
and the why behind it.
So why we're doing these drills, why this works for easy
running some more easy runningtips, why you want to build your
base, what aerobic changes youmight be seeing, how you can use
that kind of an expandedversion of everything we've
talked about here today.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Okay, yeah, I think that is so helpful and it's
unique.
I've never heard anybody dothat and take that approach
before and really, from a runcoach perspective, look at it as
an in-between kind of seasonsand in-between training thing.
So I think that's unique and Ithink it's really, really great.
(33:09):
I think it would be awesome foranybody who's listening to
really take advantage of that.
Now where can they go to findthis online to really take
advantage of that?
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Now, where can they go to find this online?
So I am, misadventures of amarathoner is my website, and
there is a whole page there withall of the stuff, and you can
also find me at that handle onInstagram too, and I have all of
the details there for you.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Okay, great, and I will put that in the show notes
as well so people can go and andcheck that out.
So I want to thank you so muchfor joining me today.
I think this has been sohelpful, as, from one coach to
another, I think you've actuallygiven me some ideas.
So I really appreciate chattingwith you and I would encourage
(33:55):
anyone to go to the website,especially take a look at that
boot camp.
And do you also do virtualcoaching as well, for like
training?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, most of my coaching is virtual.
I have a training club thatwill launch again in the winter
and then one-on-one coaching aswell.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Okay, all right.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me today.
I am thrilled to have been ableto talk to you, and I know it's
going to be beneficial for mylisteners.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
I really appreciate it Okay, thank you.
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