November 2, 2025 • 31 mins
Sometimes, dreams really do come true! We're thrilled to have with us the amazing Jerry Zucker, who, alongside his brother David and their friend Jim Abrahams, played a huge part in transforming comedy in the 1980s. Together, they brought a fresh and hilarious twist to the spoof movie genre with the legendary 1980 hit “Airplane,” which the American Film Institute recognized as one of the ten funniest films ever made.
Before that, the Zuckers and Abrahams wrote the cult classic, "Kentucky Fried Movie" (1977), a comedy consisting of unrelated sketches. After "Airplane," the Zuckers and Abrahams created "Police Squad!" (ABC, 1982) and turned it into the successful film franchise of today. Next, Zucker, Abrahams, Zucker returned to the big screen with "Top Secret!" (1984). Jerry also directed "Ruthless People" (1986) and "Ghost" (1990), starring Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore. "The Naked Gun - From the Files of Police Squad!" (1988). He produced "First Knight" (1995), "Rat Race," "A Walk in the Clouds" (1995), and "My Best Friend's Wedding" (1997). Additionally, he worked on "Fair Game" (2010).
Special thanks to Katie Zucker and Darlene Chan.
The PAGE International Screenwriting Awards sponsors the WRITERS' HANGOUT.
Executive Producer Kristin Overn
Creator/Executive Producer Sandy Adomaitis
Producer Terry Sampson
Music by Ethan Stoller
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello, my name is Sandy Adamis,the social media director for
the page, internationalScreenwriting Awards, and your
host for the Writer's Hangout.
A podcast that celebrates themany stages of writing, from
inspiration to the first draft,revising, getting a project made
and everything in between.
(00:21):
We'll talk to the best and thebrightest in the entertainment
industry and create a spacewhere you can hang out, learn
from the pros, and have fun.
Hey writers, it's Sandy.
I'm coming to you from StudioCity, the Paris of the San
Fernando Valley.
I couldn't be more excited toshare this special episode with
(00:44):
you.
My.
Guest is Jerry Zucker, who alongwith his brother David and their
friend Jim Abrams, created the1980 instant Classic hit
airplane named by the AmericanFilm Institute.
Among the 10 funniest films ofall time writers.
(01:09):
Jerry Zucker revolutionizedcomedy and we're gonna get to
talk to him today.
Jerry also directed ruthlesspeople, Ghost Aw Ghost starring
Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore.
He and his partners turnedPolice Squad into the successful
(01:32):
film franchise that it is today.
He also produced First Night RatRace, A Walk In the Clouds, and
my Best Friend's Wedding, Jerryis one of the most influential
figures in the history ofcomedy.
You know, writers life is tough.
(01:54):
a lot of us are struggling outthere, and I've been going
through it myself lately.
I hope you guys are okay outthere.
I really do.
But moments like this, when Iget to interview a man, I have
such immense respect for.
Our moments I never want to takefor granted.
(02:16):
I'm so happy to share thisinterview with Jerry Zucker.
I want to thank Darlene Chan andKatie Zucker for helping put
together this dream interview.
Let's start the show.
Jerry, Thank you so much forhanging out with us.
Pleasure to hang.
Now, Jerry, of all of my guests,I think you are the most
(02:40):
hyphenated.
You are a producer, a director,a screenwriter, and the last
time I checked on IMBD afterscreenwriter, they hyphenated.
Really great guy.
I don't think they, that wouldbe nice.
But that's that's the title Ireally want, now, before we get
(03:01):
started, would you like to playa quick round of, would you
rather.
Oh God.
Go ahead.
I've never graded these games,but but go ahead.
Okay.
Would you rather be an extra inan Oscar winning movie or the
lead in a box office bomb.
An extra Definitely.
(03:22):
I have a deathly fear of bombsbeing associated in any way, and
I have been, yeah.
Would you rather get a tattoo ofthe last book you read or the
last movie you saw?
Last book I read.
And what would your tattoo be?
It would be the Kinsey Report.
No.
I can't the probably JonathanHeights book The Anxious
(03:46):
Generation.
Wow that's gonna be a littlepainful there.
Yeah.
Would you rather get a paper cutevery time you turn a page or
bite your tongue every time youeat?
I do bite my tongue every time Ieat, so I guess that would be
it.
And I generally don't bleed whenI bite my tongue, so I think I
go with that.
Okay.
Would you rather hop everywhereor skip everywhere?
(04:10):
Skip.
you can't not be happy whileskipping?
I, the other thing is at my agethe idea of actually skipping
everywhere is just delightful.
Would you rather be forced tosing along or dance to every
song you hear?
I think I would look a lot moreridiculous dancing to every
(04:30):
song.
However singing every song wouldbe painful I would probably lose
more friends that way would yourather be stranded on a desert
island with somebody who won'tstop talking about the
television series, the FlyingNun, or be alone?
that's a great one.
I think I probably would ratherbe on an island with someone who
(04:53):
wouldn't stop talking because itdepends upon how long, if you
could tell me how long we'll bethere, but no, maybe alone
actually.
That, that could be prettypainful.
I was gonna say with, just'causeI, you wanna be with someone,
But if that's all they talkabout maybe alone would be
better.
would you rather be able toconverse with animals or speak
(05:16):
every language?
Speak every language.
Would you rather be followed bya band wherever you go, or
someone narrating your life?
Someone narrating my life, Ithink a band would get
everywhere I go would get.
A pretty annoying and I assumesomeone narrating my life would
(05:38):
just be, I only I would hear it.
On the other hand, if it wasblasting over loudspeakers may
maybe a band would be better.
Yeah.
It would be hard to getreservations with a band, don't
you think?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
That was so much fun.
Thank you.
I would like, so that's it, huh?
That's all you need to know,really.
(05:58):
That's all we need to know.
Thank you so much.
No.
Now I'm gonna start way back inthe beginning.
You grew up in Milwaukee,Wisconsin with your future
creative partner and talentedbrother Dayed.
What were your aspirations as akid?
I know you guys were veryinvolved with.
Comedy even at a young age, youloved Mad Magazine, but did you
(06:21):
always wanted to be in the filmindustry?
No I never had fantasies aboutbeing in the film industry
because it just, it wasn't realto me.
I, growing up in Milwaukee.
You don't even know anyone whoknows someone in the movie
business, right?
It's just not it's just notaround.
Whereas if you live in LA everygarage mechanic has a script
(06:44):
there.
They wanna sell or whatever.
But I, but we did make jokes allthe time and our family valued
that, they, that was a goodthing.
We didn't get disciplined forit.
they laugh.
We learned that there was valuein a good joke.
But I never, and even when westarted, kentucky Fried Theater
(07:06):
in Madison.
At the beginning it was just alark and I it wasn't till much,
much later when we were outhere.
That the idea of actuallydirecting a movie occurred to
us.
When we're younger, we don'teven know writers write the
films.
We were actually writers andstill think of ourselves as
writers.
(07:27):
that's really what I am.
like I think Mel Brooks oncesaid he, he directs out of
self-defense.
and I think particularly withairplane we had a very specific
vision of the style of actingand uh, playing at that
straight.
And we insisted on directing itand we were actually pretty
(07:49):
lucky that, they let us, Theworld is just better off with
airplane existing Now you wentto the university of Wisconsin,
right?
Your brother David had gottenthere first'cause he was older
What did you study in school?
I was an education major.
I actually taught high schoolfor a semester.
(08:10):
Oh, I could not love youanymore.
That is amazing.
A teacher.
yeah.
And I, and at that point I justhad no idea.
What I would do for a living.
'cause I didn't really I didn'tthink I could really teach, year
after year.
And and there was nothing elsethat I was competent at really.
(08:33):
Okay.
And so I was really lucky thatthe whole a comedy thing worked
out.
did you ever get to teach?
Yeah.
I taught for a semester.
At at Madison East High Schoolit was part of my student
teacher program, oh, okay.
They let you do that.
Yeah.
I would imagine you'd be just anamazing teacher because you
(08:54):
could bring humor to Ed.
Yeah I, that's interesting yousay that, and I, that.
Performance is really importantfor teaching because in order to
teach anybody anything, you haveto have their attention.
And that's hard, there's so manydistractions, especially with
(09:15):
cell phones now, I was surprisedeven then.
Probably the key to teaching.
Yeah.
Yes.
Now at the University ofWisconsin that's where Kentucky
Fried Theater arose.
Just for the writers out therewho might not know, you should
know it was a legendary comedytroupe that you co-founded with
(09:35):
your brother David, and JimAbrams Abrams.
And others.
It integrated Live theater,videotaped segments and film
scenes.
How the heck did you getvideotaped?
Did you have a camera?
that was a very lucky thing.
A friend of our family had, aowned sick room service company
(09:59):
where they would rent hospitaltype equipment to people,
wheelchairs, and walkers andwhatever.
And he had a videotape machinethat he would use to demonstrate
things.
But he wasn't using it at thispoint and mentioned it to my
dad.
And my dad actually told mybrother David that, maybe he
(10:22):
could do industrial videos.
David had no interest.
But then he saw this show grooveTube he saw it in Chicago and
drove straight to Madison whereI was in school.
He had graduated.
And he was frothing at the mouthtelling me we could do this.
we could use this video machineand play videos and I think it
(10:45):
was Easter break.
We found ourselves, my brotherand I and Jim Abrams and another
of Fred Dick Chu now, and we hadthis machine in the basement of
our house.
We were just making videotapesand it was amazing to us that we
could actually record.
Do a little bit and then see itright back and then and then try
(11:09):
it again and just fool with it.
David and I had made.
Eight millimeter films, but yougotta wait and get it developed.
it's more expensive.
And so this was just like a, a.
Comedian's dream.
And and then we, after a whilewe compiled, 20 minutes of funny
(11:29):
stuff and we'd show it to peopleand they, they laugh and then.
We just said let's do a show.
It was really a very much a amic Rudy Judy Garland kind of
film.
What an exciting fun time.
Yes, exactly.
It was great.
Yeah.
I had heard you didn't reallyrehearse the whole show The
(11:52):
first night we actuallyperformed in the union there
wasn't even a stage or anythingand people were just hanging
around and I think we did 45minutes of bits and then.
We ran out.
We never rehearsed it.
We didn't really realize that itwas, that it would go so fast.
(12:12):
so we said there'll be a 15minute intermission and then I
talked about how much of moneywe should refund.
I think we probably charged adollar or something.
I don't know.
It wasn't or maybe it was freeactually, I don't remember, but.
So it was a disaster.
But after that we found an olduh, bookstore that had a big
(12:34):
room in the back that we rented.
And we spent a summer building.
A theater in there.
Crude Abby rents, chairs andstuff.
and then we rehearsed the showand it, went well.
Now where, does the name comefrom?
actually, we were sitting in arestaurant.
Thinking of names for our show.
(12:56):
and we were throwing out stupidnames that, that of course we
would never use.
and, there was a, big window andright by our booth and we were
throwing out joke names thatjust made us laugh but not
serious names for the show.
And I think it was Dick Chubbnow looked across the street and
saw the Kentucky Fried chicken.
(13:16):
restaurant and said how abouthow about Kentucky Fried
Theater?
and we all just thought, wait aminute.
That's funny that works.
Let's use that.
So that was the origin of it,Now do I get this right?
Kentucky Fried Theater.
It's like fast comedy, fastfood.
Is that what you were I don'tthink we ever thought that far.
(13:39):
It was just a funny soundingname and also we were doing
satire, it seemed to make senseto do something like that.
I love the name and it reallydoes stick in your head.
Yeah.
Now, in 1972, you literallypacked up Kentucky Fried
Theater, rented a U-Haul, andmoved to Hollywood.
(14:02):
Now after performing for fiveyears on Pico, you decided to
create Kentucky Fried Movie.
Now, I'm just gonna assume thatwas an easy step.
You know you're in la, yourtheater's near 20th Century Fox
Studios.
Yeah.
Did 20th stop by with a big fatcheck for you guys?
Yeah.
(14:23):
Unfortunately not.
I think there was like oneperson I remember we were very
excited, some VP that wasstopped by the show and he was
very kind, but it never amountedto to anything.
in the end, the show wasfinanced by United Artist
Theater Circuit, which iscompletely different than the
(14:46):
United Artist Studio.
it took a while to get thatgoing.
where was it on Pico, thetheater?
Is it still there?
The building?
No.
There's it's right across fromRancho Park.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
Groucho Marks old golf course,if I remember.
Oh, was it?
Yeah.
Oh no.
That's I'm talking about thecountry club.
(15:07):
Yes.
That's Hillcrest, I think washis.
Maybe.
No hillcrest was that, butthat's where Barack Obama played
basketball.
I remember that.
Oh really?
When he was in town?
Yes.
Not when we were there, butanyway.
Now, where did you first live inla?
we found this building actuallya cousin of ours who was a
(15:27):
doctor, owned it with a bunch ofother doctors And amazingly it
had a huge space that we couldput a theater in and a lobby and
parking and all that.
But it also had an apartment.
Upstairs.
I don't know what this wasoriginally built for the first
thing we did when we got therewas a complete mess.
(15:48):
This place, it was just likegraffiti and smashed up and
whatever, but we, we remodeledthe when I say remodeled, we we
painted and fixed up and stuffthe the apartment upstairs and
moved in.
So we had a place to live.
So it was, that was pretty Wow.
That's great.
Pretty great.
(16:09):
Yeah.
Really cool.
when I got down, I ended up wayin North Hollywood somewhere.
Ah.
Yeah, we were very lucky.
We worked hard we were talentedguys, but yes, I can't help but
thinking that there must havebeen some fate involved or I
don't know.
Did you have a favorite hangoutwhere, you know, like after the
(16:31):
show, did you guys go outafterwards?
Yeah.
We did go out after the showfrequently because we were
wired.
We had to unwind.
And we went into Westwood andwhat was the name is of this
place.
There was a restaurant inWestwood that's not there
anymore.
But that was a place we would goto a lot.
(16:52):
Is it Hamburger Hamlet?
No.
Although Hamburger Hamlet was aplace that we would go to, but
that wasn't in Westwood.
I they didn't have one inWestwood.
Did it take you a while to feelat home here or as soon as you
crossed the border, you werejust home?
I don't know if I'll exactly sayhome, but we loved it here, but
(17:13):
mostly because, we loved what wewere doing.
Our lives were this with thisshow Especially at the beginning
when we were once again, had toremodel, build a theater, and
that was a blast.
And also we had each other, weweren't here alone.
we liked la.
The weather was great and someof the goofy things about la we
(17:36):
just saw more as entertainmentthan just horrible, pretentious
or anything.
we loved.
And a lot of people look down inla I love it here.
It's, yeah, it's a specialplace.
It really is.
Now you and your partners,optioned the 1957 movie, zero
(17:56):
hour.
and it's about an airliner thatloses its pilot and passengers
to food poisoning, and you adaptthe that into a modern parody
called airplane.
What does it feel like to write?
one of the top 10 a FI funniestmovies in history.
it's great to be appreciated.
(18:17):
At the time we weren't thinkingabout that kind of thing.
we had a particular humor thatthe three of us shared a, a kind
of satire.
And we were trying to figure outwhat to write and we came up
with various ideas.
And this was when we were stilldoing the theater and we used to
set the videotape machine torecord.
(18:39):
Late night TV shows because thethe commercials were actually
very funny.
They had really cheap stupidcommercials on at three o'clock
in the morning or whatever.
And so one day we, we were.
Looking through and, we'd fastforward to get to the
commercials.
(18:59):
Then we realized that there wasthis interesting movie in
between.
And we started watching that andit was zero hour.
And we thought, wait a minute,this is a great idea for a for a
satirical film.
And it was a film where, it wasthat style of drama where
everybody was really heavyhitting.
(19:20):
And everyone was tough, and itit, I don't know.
so many of the jokes in all ourfilms came from watching old
movies and saying, wait aminute.
Stop the tape.
What if this happens?
I can't remember what film itwas, but someone said, surely
you can't be serious.
(19:41):
And and someone said, stop thetape and said, and don't call me
Shirley.
So that, that's how a lot ofthose jokes, came.
What was the writing processlike?
Did you all sit together?
yep, we all sat together.
We did everything in a roomtogether.
Obviously someone, sometimessomeone would come in with a
(20:02):
joke'cause we were, thinkingabout this 24 hours a day.
Really.
Men asleep.
But, we would generally sit in aroom drink coffee and then as
soon as we were all like,sufficiently stimulated we
started writing and a lot ofthat time was just spent
(20:24):
laughing.
As a audience member, it justmakes me happy to know that you
were all in the room because Ithink that's how the world
envisions that you guys would'vewritten.
Yeah.
'cause you like to do parodymovies.
It just kept flashing in mymind.
You know how they do those rockand roll movies where in the
good old days, they're allrecording together?
And then later they're all intheir separate buses.
(20:48):
I would like to see the thethree of you in separate buses
riding as you go across country.
we were a team.
Not that we didn't have ourarguments, but we were always we
just did everything together.
I was just thinking about whenyou said that John I think
Michael Palin said this aboutJohn Cleese, or John Cleese said
(21:10):
it about himself.
The reason why John's ideas gotinto our skits, the most s.
Was because he would argue thelongest Did you guys fight?
That's funny.
I don't know what things werelike with Monty Python clearly
whatever their way of operatingwas it, it worked.
(21:33):
But for us, because there werethree of us, there was always an
instant decision and also we hadtremendous faith in each other.
So if I.
I came up with a joke and Davidand Jim didn't laugh which I
just move on.
I wouldn't argue that, they werewrong unless I thought they
(21:54):
didn't understand what I wassaying.
But and conversely, if theylaugh, that was the best to have
both of them laugh.
And then I knew Yes, I, that'sa, that's gonna work.
not to be too mean toexecutives, but they don't
always understand what's on thepage.
(22:15):
Airplane must have beendifficult to verbally translate
to them.
Did you get along with yourexecutives?
We were we were lucky and andunfortunately you don't hear too
many of these stories thesedays, but they were terrific and
really really helpful andactually right at the beginning
when we went in.
(22:36):
our idea was to do this film ona propeller plane, and in black
and white, like zero hour.
we were really wanted to do thatmovie.
And Eisner said, no, if you'regonna do it at this studio, it's
gotta be on a jet plane and incolor, because I Want people to
have a an experience that theycan relate to of flying, not
(23:02):
just.
The satirical part of it.
And he was absolutely right.
Yeah.
Good on him.
And, yeah.
No.
So that was a thing where, youknow the head of the studio
issued an edict and bless himfor it.
And there was also a guy anexecutive that they put on, his
name was Tom Perry.
(23:23):
And he really taught us a lotabout, restructuring the film a
bit and making all those theflashbacks of their love story
were something that heencouraged us to do.
And that they were great.
that is really nice to hear.
(23:43):
did it take long to write thescript?
Yes, but we wrote the originaldraft before Kentucky Fried
Movie, and thank God it didn'tget made because it wasn't.
Great.
And then after Kentucky FriedMovie, we rented a little
bungalow in Santa Monica and wewe went about rewriting it.
(24:05):
We took the, the story and.
And there were 20 great jokes.
Maybe some more, and then wentabout rewriting it.
But then, as we showed it topeople and got turned down
everywhere, we just keptrewriting and adding, we, we
used to joke that it's like acloset that's.
(24:26):
Totally full, but you couldalways open it a little bit and
stuff in one more thing andclose it.
So that was us with I, I loveairplane.
I love that so much and I reallywanna hang a lantern on that for
our writers out there.
You guys believed in yourscript.
You knew it was funny, so youjust kept working on it.
(24:47):
Yeah.
And didn't put it in a bottomdrawer because you didn't get an
immediate Yes.
And that's very admirable.
And I really want our writersout there to take that away if
they take anything away fromthis.
If you believe in something,just really keep going.
That's hard because you canbelieve in something and be
(25:10):
right about it, and you canbelieve in something and be
wrong about it.
True.
But I think that if you reallyfeel like you have a.
a premise or a story that, orsomething you wanna say.
It, yeah.
Keep at it.
But the other thing that I wouldadvise to writers is.
(25:33):
It tell people the story and youjust tell it like, okay, once
upon a time there was this, andyou don't have to tell every
incident, but you just the storyand watch their eyes If they're
engaged or they're their eyesare looking darting away or
they, if they ask questions,then what ha how did this
(25:54):
happen?
Or whatever.
You can tell whether you have astory that's interesting to
people.
And I did that actually with.
Ghost before I had signed on,there was another movie that I
liked too, and another script.
I was at a party and told somefriends who were also writers.
(26:15):
and I could just see when Italked about ghosts, they were
just really intrigued.
So I knew I had, there wassomething there.
That is so cool.
What great advice.
Not only did you write airplane,but all three of you directed
it.
Yeah.
Now for the writers out there,the DGA, the Director's Guild of
(26:36):
America they usually want asingle director How the heck did
all three of you managed to pullthat off?
two things that we pulled off.
One is three people directing,but that really wasn't that
difficult because we haddeveloped this, a kind of humor
(26:58):
and written the script and beentogether for years.
And so when we would talk aboutwhat was wrong, it wasn't, we
all had the exact same vision ofwhat we wanted.
We are just trying to figure outhow to get there and okay, why
isn't this working?
And so it was great to havethree of us.
(27:20):
And once again, if we disagreed,we'd have an instant decision.
And the other thing was gettingcredit, which was more difficult
in a way.
the first time they turned usdown and the, then we went in
again saying we had some newthings to show them, which we
hadn't, and before whatever.
(27:40):
And it was actually a tie.
And then Gil Kates was theacting.
Was the vice president, but thepresident was out of town, so he
was the acting president and hevoted for us and we got credit.
So we were we lucked out.
(28:02):
Thank you, Gil.
We really appreciate that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You don't look at airplane andyou, there is one vision there.
You don't, you I don't think youcould ever.
Pick out, I think so and sodirected this.
It's, yeah, just pure now.
You return to TV after themassive success of airplane.
(28:23):
Yeah.
With police squad.
And by the way, I love anexclamation point and I, and it
really, I said, yeah, you guysdo too.
We have that in common on A, B,C.
It was in 1982 Lieutenant FrankDrummond was created, played by
the late Great Leslie Nielsen.
Yeah.
The show was ahead of its timein short lived.
(28:45):
Became a massive film,franchise.
How did you manage things?
was it a traditional writer'sroom?
I've heard that you had aninteresting way of dealing with
the writers on staff.
We wrote the pilot and then webrought on writers and there was
(29:06):
a writer's room, actually, itwas good.
We had great people.
But what was your questionabout?
An interesting way of what?
an interesting way of dealingwith the writers on staff.
you paired three writers up.
You broke up the writer's roomand paired everybody up with
three.
It's funny.
I have no recollection thatcould be true.
(29:27):
Oh, I have no recollection ofit.
These are, yeah, these are juststories that are out there in
the world about, yeah, aboutyou.
now?
Top secret.
First of all, just thank you.
Just thank you for top secret.
Thank you.
From the bottom of my heart.
Can you share any secrets youhaven't shared before about the
making of top secret?
(29:47):
Oh, gee Despite the name, thereare no secrets.
that was a really fun movie.
in airplay we were confined to,an interior of an airplay with
people in seats and then just ata control tower and few other
things.
But then in top secret, we.
We like, oh my God, we can goanywhere.
(30:08):
And so it was that was reallyfun.
You were invited back to theUniversity of Wisconsin to
deliver the commencementaddress.
Yeah.
And you advised the graduatesnot to be afraid of failure.
I think failure is or fear offailure is probably motivated by
ego to some extent.
And but on the other hand it'sprobably helpful because.
(30:32):
You have a fear of failure.
You put more pressure onyourself to make it right.
On the other hand if it's toomuch, then you prevent yourself
from doing things.
So I think I was just saying topeople If you do fail, just move
(30:52):
on.
It's not a big deal.
It's only a big deal to you.
And I told this story aboutAfter Top Secret, which did not
do well at the box office, andit was the first weekend.
And, we were in New York andeating at Rumpel Myers which I
don't think is there anymore.
But and Travolta walked in andand we knew him from the lot, a
(31:17):
bit, and he saw us moping and,gee, a movie didn't do.
And he just said, guys, forgetabout it.
No, nobody thinks nobody elsecares about it.
Only you, for everybody else,it's just a blip.
It's just a huge crushing thingfor you.
that really made a lot of senseto us.
(31:38):
such a great story.
Thank you.
It's a wonderful note to end on.
Jerry, you have spent so muchtime with us.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And I hope you come back again.
Alright, we'll see you tomorrow.
Okay.
Sandy, been a pleasure.
Thank you.
That's a wrap for the Writer'sHangout.
Thanks so much for listening.
(32:00):
If you enjoyed the show, pleasesubscribe and thrive till we get
to hang out again.
Keep writing.
The world needs your Stories.
Hello, my name is Sandy Adamis,the social media director for
the page, internationalScreenwriting Awards, and your
host for the Writer's Hangout.
A podcast that celebrates themany stages of writing, from
inspiration to the first draft,revising, getting a project made
and everything in between.
(00:21):
We'll talk to the best and thebrightest in the entertainment
industry and create a spacewhere you can hang out, learn
from the pros, and have fun.
Hey writers, it's Sandy.
I'm coming to you from StudioCity, the Paris of the San
Fernando Valley.
I couldn't be more excited toshare this special episode with
(00:44):
you.
My.
Guest is Jerry Zucker, who alongwith his brother David and their
friend Jim Abrams, created the1980 instant Classic hit
airplane named by the AmericanFilm Institute.
Among the 10 funniest films ofall time writers.
(01:09):
Jerry Zucker revolutionizedcomedy and we're gonna get to
talk to him today.
Jerry also directed ruthlesspeople, Ghost Aw Ghost starring
Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore.
He and his partners turnedPolice Squad into the successful
(01:32):
film franchise that it is today.
He also produced First Night RatRace, A Walk In the Clouds, and
my Best Friend's Wedding, Jerryis one of the most influential
figures in the history ofcomedy.
You know, writers life is tough.
(01:54):
a lot of us are struggling outthere, and I've been going
through it myself lately.
I hope you guys are okay outthere.
I really do.
But moments like this, when Iget to interview a man, I have
such immense respect for.
Our moments I never want to takefor granted.
(02:16):
I'm so happy to share thisinterview with Jerry Zucker.
I want to thank Darlene Chan andKatie Zucker for helping put
together this dream interview.
Let's start the show.
Jerry, Thank you so much forhanging out with us.
Pleasure to hang.
Now, Jerry, of all of my guests,I think you are the most
(02:40):
hyphenated.
You are a producer, a director,a screenwriter, and the last
time I checked on IMBD afterscreenwriter, they hyphenated.
Really great guy.
I don't think they, that wouldbe nice.
But that's that's the title Ireally want, now, before we get
(03:01):
started, would you like to playa quick round of, would you
rather.
Oh God.
Go ahead.
I've never graded these games,but but go ahead.
Okay.
Would you rather be an extra inan Oscar winning movie or the
lead in a box office bomb.
An extra Definitely.
(03:22):
I have a deathly fear of bombsbeing associated in any way, and
I have been, yeah.
Would you rather get a tattoo ofthe last book you read or the
last movie you saw?
Last book I read.
And what would your tattoo be?
It would be the Kinsey Report.
No.
I can't the probably JonathanHeights book The Anxious
(03:46):
Generation.
Wow that's gonna be a littlepainful there.
Yeah.
Would you rather get a paper cutevery time you turn a page or
bite your tongue every time youeat?
I do bite my tongue every time Ieat, so I guess that would be
it.
And I generally don't bleed whenI bite my tongue, so I think I
go with that.
Okay.
Would you rather hop everywhereor skip everywhere?
(04:10):
Skip.
you can't not be happy whileskipping?
I, the other thing is at my agethe idea of actually skipping
everywhere is just delightful.
Would you rather be forced tosing along or dance to every
song you hear?
I think I would look a lot moreridiculous dancing to every
(04:30):
song.
However singing every song wouldbe painful I would probably lose
more friends that way would yourather be stranded on a desert
island with somebody who won'tstop talking about the
television series, the FlyingNun, or be alone?
that's a great one.
I think I probably would ratherbe on an island with someone who
(04:53):
wouldn't stop talking because itdepends upon how long, if you
could tell me how long we'll bethere, but no, maybe alone
actually.
That, that could be prettypainful.
I was gonna say with, just'causeI, you wanna be with someone,
But if that's all they talkabout maybe alone would be
better.
would you rather be able toconverse with animals or speak
(05:16):
every language?
Speak every language.
Would you rather be followed bya band wherever you go, or
someone narrating your life?
Someone narrating my life, Ithink a band would get
everywhere I go would get.
A pretty annoying and I assumesomeone narrating my life would
(05:38):
just be, I only I would hear it.
On the other hand, if it wasblasting over loudspeakers may
maybe a band would be better.
Yeah.
It would be hard to getreservations with a band, don't
you think?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
That was so much fun.
Thank you.
I would like, so that's it, huh?
That's all you need to know,really.
(05:58):
That's all we need to know.
Thank you so much.
No.
Now I'm gonna start way back inthe beginning.
You grew up in Milwaukee,Wisconsin with your future
creative partner and talentedbrother Dayed.
What were your aspirations as akid?
I know you guys were veryinvolved with.
Comedy even at a young age, youloved Mad Magazine, but did you
(06:21):
always wanted to be in the filmindustry?
No I never had fantasies aboutbeing in the film industry
because it just, it wasn't realto me.
I, growing up in Milwaukee.
You don't even know anyone whoknows someone in the movie
business, right?
It's just not it's just notaround.
Whereas if you live in LA everygarage mechanic has a script
(06:44):
there.
They wanna sell or whatever.
But I, but we did make jokes allthe time and our family valued
that, they, that was a goodthing.
We didn't get disciplined forit.
they laugh.
We learned that there was valuein a good joke.
But I never, and even when westarted, kentucky Fried Theater
(07:06):
in Madison.
At the beginning it was just alark and I it wasn't till much,
much later when we were outhere.
That the idea of actuallydirecting a movie occurred to
us.
When we're younger, we don'teven know writers write the
films.
We were actually writers andstill think of ourselves as
writers.
(07:27):
that's really what I am.
like I think Mel Brooks oncesaid he, he directs out of
self-defense.
and I think particularly withairplane we had a very specific
vision of the style of actingand uh, playing at that
straight.
And we insisted on directing itand we were actually pretty
(07:49):
lucky that, they let us, Theworld is just better off with
airplane existing Now you wentto the university of Wisconsin,
right?
Your brother David had gottenthere first'cause he was older
What did you study in school?
I was an education major.
I actually taught high schoolfor a semester.
(08:10):
Oh, I could not love youanymore.
That is amazing.
A teacher.
yeah.
And I, and at that point I justhad no idea.
What I would do for a living.
'cause I didn't really I didn'tthink I could really teach, year
after year.
And and there was nothing elsethat I was competent at really.
(08:33):
Okay.
And so I was really lucky thatthe whole a comedy thing worked
out.
did you ever get to teach?
Yeah.
I taught for a semester.
At at Madison East High Schoolit was part of my student
teacher program, oh, okay.
They let you do that.
Yeah.
I would imagine you'd be just anamazing teacher because you
(08:54):
could bring humor to Ed.
Yeah I, that's interesting yousay that, and I, that.
Performance is really importantfor teaching because in order to
teach anybody anything, you haveto have their attention.
And that's hard, there's so manydistractions, especially with
(09:15):
cell phones now, I was surprisedeven then.
Probably the key to teaching.
Yeah.
Yes.
Now at the University ofWisconsin that's where Kentucky
Fried Theater arose.
Just for the writers out therewho might not know, you should
know it was a legendary comedytroupe that you co-founded with
(09:35):
your brother David, and JimAbrams Abrams.
And others.
It integrated Live theater,videotaped segments and film
scenes.
How the heck did you getvideotaped?
Did you have a camera?
that was a very lucky thing.
A friend of our family had, aowned sick room service company
(09:59):
where they would rent hospitaltype equipment to people,
wheelchairs, and walkers andwhatever.
And he had a videotape machinethat he would use to demonstrate
things.
But he wasn't using it at thispoint and mentioned it to my
dad.
And my dad actually told mybrother David that, maybe he
(10:22):
could do industrial videos.
David had no interest.
But then he saw this show grooveTube he saw it in Chicago and
drove straight to Madison whereI was in school.
He had graduated.
And he was frothing at the mouthtelling me we could do this.
we could use this video machineand play videos and I think it
(10:45):
was Easter break.
We found ourselves, my brotherand I and Jim Abrams and another
of Fred Dick Chu now, and we hadthis machine in the basement of
our house.
We were just making videotapesand it was amazing to us that we
could actually record.
Do a little bit and then see itright back and then and then try
(11:09):
it again and just fool with it.
David and I had made.
Eight millimeter films, but yougotta wait and get it developed.
it's more expensive.
And so this was just like a, a.
Comedian's dream.
And and then we, after a whilewe compiled, 20 minutes of funny
(11:29):
stuff and we'd show it to peopleand they, they laugh and then.
We just said let's do a show.
It was really a very much a amic Rudy Judy Garland kind of
film.
What an exciting fun time.
Yes, exactly.
It was great.
Yeah.
I had heard you didn't reallyrehearse the whole show The
(11:52):
first night we actuallyperformed in the union there
wasn't even a stage or anythingand people were just hanging
around and I think we did 45minutes of bits and then.
We ran out.
We never rehearsed it.
We didn't really realize that itwas, that it would go so fast.
(12:12):
so we said there'll be a 15minute intermission and then I
talked about how much of moneywe should refund.
I think we probably charged adollar or something.
I don't know.
It wasn't or maybe it was freeactually, I don't remember, but.
So it was a disaster.
But after that we found an olduh, bookstore that had a big
(12:34):
room in the back that we rented.
And we spent a summer building.
A theater in there.
Crude Abby rents, chairs andstuff.
and then we rehearsed the showand it, went well.
Now where, does the name comefrom?
actually, we were sitting in arestaurant.
Thinking of names for our show.
(12:56):
and we were throwing out stupidnames that, that of course we
would never use.
and, there was a, big window andright by our booth and we were
throwing out joke names thatjust made us laugh but not
serious names for the show.
And I think it was Dick Chubbnow looked across the street and
saw the Kentucky Fried chicken.
(13:16):
restaurant and said how abouthow about Kentucky Fried
Theater?
and we all just thought, wait aminute.
That's funny that works.
Let's use that.
So that was the origin of it,Now do I get this right?
Kentucky Fried Theater.
It's like fast comedy, fastfood.
Is that what you were I don'tthink we ever thought that far.
(13:39):
It was just a funny soundingname and also we were doing
satire, it seemed to make senseto do something like that.
I love the name and it reallydoes stick in your head.
Yeah.
Now, in 1972, you literallypacked up Kentucky Fried
Theater, rented a U-Haul, andmoved to Hollywood.
(14:02):
Now after performing for fiveyears on Pico, you decided to
create Kentucky Fried Movie.
Now, I'm just gonna assume thatwas an easy step.
You know you're in la, yourtheater's near 20th Century Fox
Studios.
Yeah.
Did 20th stop by with a big fatcheck for you guys?
Yeah.
(14:23):
Unfortunately not.
I think there was like oneperson I remember we were very
excited, some VP that wasstopped by the show and he was
very kind, but it never amountedto to anything.
in the end, the show wasfinanced by United Artist
Theater Circuit, which iscompletely different than the
(14:46):
United Artist Studio.
it took a while to get thatgoing.
where was it on Pico, thetheater?
Is it still there?
The building?
No.
There's it's right across fromRancho Park.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
Groucho Marks old golf course,if I remember.
Oh, was it?
Yeah.
Oh no.
That's I'm talking about thecountry club.
(15:07):
Yes.
That's Hillcrest, I think washis.
Maybe.
No hillcrest was that, butthat's where Barack Obama played
basketball.
I remember that.
Oh really?
When he was in town?
Yes.
Not when we were there, butanyway.
Now, where did you first live inla?
we found this building actuallya cousin of ours who was a
(15:27):
doctor, owned it with a bunch ofother doctors And amazingly it
had a huge space that we couldput a theater in and a lobby and
parking and all that.
But it also had an apartment.
Upstairs.
I don't know what this wasoriginally built for the first
thing we did when we got therewas a complete mess.
(15:48):
This place, it was just likegraffiti and smashed up and
whatever, but we, we remodeledthe when I say remodeled, we we
painted and fixed up and stuffthe the apartment upstairs and
moved in.
So we had a place to live.
So it was, that was pretty Wow.
That's great.
Pretty great.
(16:09):
Yeah.
Really cool.
when I got down, I ended up wayin North Hollywood somewhere.
Ah.
Yeah, we were very lucky.
We worked hard we were talentedguys, but yes, I can't help but
thinking that there must havebeen some fate involved or I
don't know.
Did you have a favorite hangoutwhere, you know, like after the
(16:31):
show, did you guys go outafterwards?
Yeah.
We did go out after the showfrequently because we were
wired.
We had to unwind.
And we went into Westwood andwhat was the name is of this
place.
There was a restaurant inWestwood that's not there
anymore.
But that was a place we would goto a lot.
(16:52):
Is it Hamburger Hamlet?
No.
Although Hamburger Hamlet was aplace that we would go to, but
that wasn't in Westwood.
I they didn't have one inWestwood.
Did it take you a while to feelat home here or as soon as you
crossed the border, you werejust home?
I don't know if I'll exactly sayhome, but we loved it here, but
(17:13):
mostly because, we loved what wewere doing.
Our lives were this with thisshow Especially at the beginning
when we were once again, had toremodel, build a theater, and
that was a blast.
And also we had each other, weweren't here alone.
we liked la.
The weather was great and someof the goofy things about la we
(17:36):
just saw more as entertainmentthan just horrible, pretentious
or anything.
we loved.
And a lot of people look down inla I love it here.
It's, yeah, it's a specialplace.
It really is.
Now you and your partners,optioned the 1957 movie, zero
(17:56):
hour.
and it's about an airliner thatloses its pilot and passengers
to food poisoning, and you adaptthe that into a modern parody
called airplane.
What does it feel like to write?
one of the top 10 a FI funniestmovies in history.
it's great to be appreciated.
(18:17):
At the time we weren't thinkingabout that kind of thing.
we had a particular humor thatthe three of us shared a, a kind
of satire.
And we were trying to figure outwhat to write and we came up
with various ideas.
And this was when we were stilldoing the theater and we used to
set the videotape machine torecord.
(18:39):
Late night TV shows because thethe commercials were actually
very funny.
They had really cheap stupidcommercials on at three o'clock
in the morning or whatever.
And so one day we, we were.
Looking through and, we'd fastforward to get to the
commercials.
(18:59):
Then we realized that there wasthis interesting movie in
between.
And we started watching that andit was zero hour.
And we thought, wait a minute,this is a great idea for a for a
satirical film.
And it was a film where, it wasthat style of drama where
everybody was really heavyhitting.
(19:20):
And everyone was tough, and itit, I don't know.
so many of the jokes in all ourfilms came from watching old
movies and saying, wait aminute.
Stop the tape.
What if this happens?
I can't remember what film itwas, but someone said, surely
you can't be serious.
(19:41):
And and someone said, stop thetape and said, and don't call me
Shirley.
So that, that's how a lot ofthose jokes, came.
What was the writing processlike?
Did you all sit together?
yep, we all sat together.
We did everything in a roomtogether.
Obviously someone, sometimessomeone would come in with a
(20:02):
joke'cause we were, thinkingabout this 24 hours a day.
Really.
Men asleep.
But, we would generally sit in aroom drink coffee and then as
soon as we were all like,sufficiently stimulated we
started writing and a lot ofthat time was just spent
(20:24):
laughing.
As a audience member, it justmakes me happy to know that you
were all in the room because Ithink that's how the world
envisions that you guys would'vewritten.
Yeah.
'cause you like to do parodymovies.
It just kept flashing in mymind.
You know how they do those rockand roll movies where in the
good old days, they're allrecording together?
And then later they're all intheir separate buses.
(20:48):
I would like to see the thethree of you in separate buses
riding as you go across country.
we were a team.
Not that we didn't have ourarguments, but we were always we
just did everything together.
I was just thinking about whenyou said that John I think
Michael Palin said this aboutJohn Cleese, or John Cleese said
(21:10):
it about himself.
The reason why John's ideas gotinto our skits, the most s.
Was because he would argue thelongest Did you guys fight?
That's funny.
I don't know what things werelike with Monty Python clearly
whatever their way of operatingwas it, it worked.
(21:33):
But for us, because there werethree of us, there was always an
instant decision and also we hadtremendous faith in each other.
So if I.
I came up with a joke and Davidand Jim didn't laugh which I
just move on.
I wouldn't argue that, they werewrong unless I thought they
(21:54):
didn't understand what I wassaying.
But and conversely, if theylaugh, that was the best to have
both of them laugh.
And then I knew Yes, I, that'sa, that's gonna work.
not to be too mean toexecutives, but they don't
always understand what's on thepage.
(22:15):
Airplane must have beendifficult to verbally translate
to them.
Did you get along with yourexecutives?
We were we were lucky and andunfortunately you don't hear too
many of these stories thesedays, but they were terrific and
really really helpful andactually right at the beginning
when we went in.
(22:36):
our idea was to do this film ona propeller plane, and in black
and white, like zero hour.
we were really wanted to do thatmovie.
And Eisner said, no, if you'regonna do it at this studio, it's
gotta be on a jet plane and incolor, because I Want people to
have a an experience that theycan relate to of flying, not
(23:02):
just.
The satirical part of it.
And he was absolutely right.
Yeah.
Good on him.
And, yeah.
No.
So that was a thing where, youknow the head of the studio
issued an edict and bless himfor it.
And there was also a guy anexecutive that they put on, his
name was Tom Perry.
(23:23):
And he really taught us a lotabout, restructuring the film a
bit and making all those theflashbacks of their love story
were something that heencouraged us to do.
And that they were great.
that is really nice to hear.
(23:43):
did it take long to write thescript?
Yes, but we wrote the originaldraft before Kentucky Fried
Movie, and thank God it didn'tget made because it wasn't.
Great.
And then after Kentucky FriedMovie, we rented a little
bungalow in Santa Monica and wewe went about rewriting it.
(24:05):
We took the, the story and.
And there were 20 great jokes.
Maybe some more, and then wentabout rewriting it.
But then, as we showed it topeople and got turned down
everywhere, we just keptrewriting and adding, we, we
used to joke that it's like acloset that's.
(24:26):
Totally full, but you couldalways open it a little bit and
stuff in one more thing andclose it.
So that was us with I, I loveairplane.
I love that so much and I reallywanna hang a lantern on that for
our writers out there.
You guys believed in yourscript.
You knew it was funny, so youjust kept working on it.
(24:47):
Yeah.
And didn't put it in a bottomdrawer because you didn't get an
immediate Yes.
And that's very admirable.
And I really want our writersout there to take that away if
they take anything away fromthis.
If you believe in something,just really keep going.
That's hard because you canbelieve in something and be
(25:10):
right about it, and you canbelieve in something and be
wrong about it.
True.
But I think that if you reallyfeel like you have a.
a premise or a story that, orsomething you wanna say.
It, yeah.
Keep at it.
But the other thing that I wouldadvise to writers is.
(25:33):
It tell people the story and youjust tell it like, okay, once
upon a time there was this, andyou don't have to tell every
incident, but you just the storyand watch their eyes If they're
engaged or they're their eyesare looking darting away or
they, if they ask questions,then what ha how did this
(25:54):
happen?
Or whatever.
You can tell whether you have astory that's interesting to
people.
And I did that actually with.
Ghost before I had signed on,there was another movie that I
liked too, and another script.
I was at a party and told somefriends who were also writers.
(26:15):
and I could just see when Italked about ghosts, they were
just really intrigued.
So I knew I had, there wassomething there.
That is so cool.
What great advice.
Not only did you write airplane,but all three of you directed
it.
Yeah.
Now for the writers out there,the DGA, the Director's Guild of
(26:36):
America they usually want asingle director How the heck did
all three of you managed to pullthat off?
two things that we pulled off.
One is three people directing,but that really wasn't that
difficult because we haddeveloped this, a kind of humor
(26:58):
and written the script and beentogether for years.
And so when we would talk aboutwhat was wrong, it wasn't, we
all had the exact same vision ofwhat we wanted.
We are just trying to figure outhow to get there and okay, why
isn't this working?
And so it was great to havethree of us.
(27:20):
And once again, if we disagreed,we'd have an instant decision.
And the other thing was gettingcredit, which was more difficult
in a way.
the first time they turned usdown and the, then we went in
again saying we had some newthings to show them, which we
hadn't, and before whatever.
(27:40):
And it was actually a tie.
And then Gil Kates was theacting.
Was the vice president, but thepresident was out of town, so he
was the acting president and hevoted for us and we got credit.
So we were we lucked out.
(28:02):
Thank you, Gil.
We really appreciate that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You don't look at airplane andyou, there is one vision there.
You don't, you I don't think youcould ever.
Pick out, I think so and sodirected this.
It's, yeah, just pure now.
You return to TV after themassive success of airplane.
(28:23):
Yeah.
With police squad.
And by the way, I love anexclamation point and I, and it
really, I said, yeah, you guysdo too.
We have that in common on A, B,C.
It was in 1982 Lieutenant FrankDrummond was created, played by
the late Great Leslie Nielsen.
Yeah.
The show was ahead of its timein short lived.
(28:45):
Became a massive film,franchise.
How did you manage things?
was it a traditional writer'sroom?
I've heard that you had aninteresting way of dealing with
the writers on staff.
We wrote the pilot and then webrought on writers and there was
(29:06):
a writer's room, actually, itwas good.
We had great people.
But what was your questionabout?
An interesting way of what?
an interesting way of dealingwith the writers on staff.
you paired three writers up.
You broke up the writer's roomand paired everybody up with
three.
It's funny.
I have no recollection thatcould be true.
(29:27):
Oh, I have no recollection ofit.
These are, yeah, these are juststories that are out there in
the world about, yeah, aboutyou.
now?
Top secret.
First of all, just thank you.
Just thank you for top secret.
Thank you.
From the bottom of my heart.
Can you share any secrets youhaven't shared before about the
making of top secret?
(29:47):
Oh, gee Despite the name, thereare no secrets.
that was a really fun movie.
in airplay we were confined to,an interior of an airplay with
people in seats and then just ata control tower and few other
things.
But then in top secret, we.
We like, oh my God, we can goanywhere.
(30:08):
And so it was that was reallyfun.
You were invited back to theUniversity of Wisconsin to
deliver the commencementaddress.
Yeah.
And you advised the graduatesnot to be afraid of failure.
I think failure is or fear offailure is probably motivated by
ego to some extent.
And but on the other hand it'sprobably helpful because.
(30:32):
You have a fear of failure.
You put more pressure onyourself to make it right.
On the other hand if it's toomuch, then you prevent yourself
from doing things.
So I think I was just saying topeople If you do fail, just move
(30:52):
on.
It's not a big deal.
It's only a big deal to you.
And I told this story aboutAfter Top Secret, which did not
do well at the box office, andit was the first weekend.
And, we were in New York andeating at Rumpel Myers which I
don't think is there anymore.
But and Travolta walked in andand we knew him from the lot, a
(31:17):
bit, and he saw us moping and,gee, a movie didn't do.
And he just said, guys, forgetabout it.
No, nobody thinks nobody elsecares about it.
Only you, for everybody else,it's just a blip.
It's just a huge crushing thingfor you.
that really made a lot of senseto us.
(31:38):
such a great story.
Thank you.
It's a wonderful note to end on.
Jerry, you have spent so muchtime with us.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And I hope you come back again.
Alright, we'll see you tomorrow.
Okay.
Sandy, been a pleasure.
Thank you.
That's a wrap for the Writer'sHangout.
Thanks so much for listening.
(32:00):
If you enjoyed the show, pleasesubscribe and thrive till we get
to hang out again.
Keep writing.
The world needs your Stories.
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