Thomas Dekker Delves Deep Into Screenwriting

Our guest is Thomas Dekker, an actor, musician, director, and screenwriter. Known for portraying John Connor in "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles," Thomas can next be seen in the upcoming camp horror comedy "HALLOWEEN STORE." Thomas wrote and directed "JACK GOES HOME," featuring Rory Culkin, available to watch on Prime. In this episode, Thomas shares invaluable insights about his screenwriting journey that will benefit writers and all creatives who wake up each day to pursue their dreams.

Executive Producer Kristin Overn

Executive Producer Sandy Adomaitis

Producer Terry Sampson

Music by Ethan Stoller

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Hello, my name is SandyAdamidis, the social media
director for the PageInternational Screenwriting
Awards and your host for theWriters Hangout, a podcast that
celebrates the many Frominspiration to the first draft,
revising, getting the projectmade, and everything in between.

(00:32):
We'll talk to the best and thebrightest in the entertainment
industry, and create a spacewhere you can hang out, learn
from the pros, and have fun.
Hey, writers, it's Sandy.
How are you all?
Thanks for being here.
I'm recording this intro late atnight in Studio City, the jewel

(00:54):
of the San Fernando Valley.
Everything is quiet and the moonis waning.
Boy do we have a terrificepisode for you.
Our guest is actor, musician,director, and screenwriter
Thomas Decker.
Thomas is known for his role asJohn Connor in Terminator, the

(01:14):
Sarah Connor Chronicles, andwe'll see him next in the
upcoming camp Horror ComedyHalloween store, Thomas wrote
and directed Jack Goes Homestarring Rory Culkin, which is
available on prime writers.
You'll want to bookmark, saverelationship this episode

(01:35):
because Thomas leaves it all outon the field for you.
Ready?
Let's start the show.
Thomas Decker, thank you so muchfor joining us on The Writer's
Hangout.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thomas.
The last time I saw you, youwere a lanky young man.
You were the lead on a networktelevision show, Terminator, the

(01:59):
Sarah Conna Chronicles.
I never asked you this questionwhen we were working together.
How do you handle that pressure?
Well, that, that job inparticular, you know, listen of
the many things I've been luckyenough to be a part of, I'm
really proud of that show and Ireally respect that show and I
knew it was good at the time.
And, even though I was youngand, and all over the place and

(02:22):
I, I was always aware that I wason a really great show with a
really great part.
And so I just always focused onthe work aspect of it and, sort
of put my head in the sand interms of the sudden
recognizability and shift thatcame to my personal life as a
result of it.
But, honestly nothing but, butgratitude and fond memories when

(02:45):
I reflect on that job.
I was always just stunned by thework you did on that series.
I mean, really, really, reallygood acting.
That series was ahead of itstime, don't you think?
Very much so, yes.
Yeah.
And then we had the strike andthen the seasons got all messed
up and then the show was on alot that it wasn't airing on and

(03:10):
oh, it just got the money.
Everything just got messed upand still breaks my heart to
this day.
Yes, And listen, I still dailyget messages and letters and dms
and things from people who lovethe show and miss the show.
And it's insane to me that it's,I think it's the second season
we were doing 16 years ago atthis point, which really blows

(03:31):
my mind.
and there's new people whodiscover it regularly, and I do
think that.
Part of the reason that we dealtwith a lot of struggle and a lot
of, issues and difficulty andall that was because Josh and
the writers and everyone, whichis always felt like they were
fighting to really makesomething superior and
intelligent and challenging andspecial and respectful to its

(03:54):
audience.
And I think, for me at, 18 to 21or whatever I was for the run of
it that was a yet again, aformative, example.
Oh my goodness.
You know, Thomas, you were soyoung.
Oh my goodness, when I thinkabout that.
Now, we're here to talk aboutyour writing today.
And I was just so excited toconnect with you and, I had

(04:16):
known that you had written themovie Horror, but your second
movie got made, Jack Goes Home.
Congratulations.
You've gotten two movies made.
whore, which has a veryinteresting premise.
Would you tell the listenerswhat the premise is?
Yes.
So whore was actually beingmade, when we knew, when we were
working together, and it wasfrom the outset, it was very

(04:39):
much a, an experiment.
it was always an experimentalthing and that definitely
carried through into theconception and writing of it.
But the premise is, it's a sortof abstract look at, young.
Prostitutes in Los Angeles, mostof whom sort of hopefuls wanting
to be actors, be famous, breakinto whatever this whole thing

(04:59):
kind of means, in culture.
And, it was the end of the twothousands and the mania and
madness surrounding celebrityand celebrity culture.
Not that it's, you know, uh,improved necessarily, but it
felt like it was at an all timefever pitch at that time.
And I think looking back on it.
I'd really been inspired by,things like harmony, Corinne's,

(05:21):
Gummo that were veryexperimental and very tonally
all over the place.
And I think I kind of wanted tobring that from, instead of
doing a kind of abstract middleAmerican thing to, bring it here
to Hollywood and rapid in allthe obsessions and dreams that
are found here.
And so, There were generalcharacter arcs, but none of the

(05:44):
actors really would receive thepages until the night before or
the day of shooting.
and we shot this thing for ayear and a half, I think, on and
off.
And so much was written and shotthat didn't end up being used.
And I kind of knew that as Iwent.
And the idea with the actors wasjust to, in a way kind of not
give them the time, to reallyprep or to really delve into who

(06:06):
they were playing or what wastheir backstory or how did they
get here and instead just keepthem really present.
And every character that waswritten was sort of a version of
themselves or an extension ofthemselves then being put into
these scripted scenarios.
So it was all very much aboutplaying and figuring out as we

(06:26):
went, which I knew having noreal powers that be, or bosses
or people to please, we couldkind of do that.
Mm-hmm.
and that was a really thrillingprocess.
And, you know, learned so much.
It was very DIY it was very justget all my friends together.
And fortunately at that time, Ihad access to so many brilliant,

(06:49):
young, creative people in allareas of movie making.
so yeah, that was a, a youthfulexperimental affair, I would
say.
Now, back in the two thousands,you didn't, did you, you didn't
have an iPhone.
You can't just pick up aniPhone.
I mean, you really started, eventhough you're so young, you
still started back when, socialmedia and iPhones and access to,

(07:16):
uh, equipment and I mean, at onetime you had to go to film
school to get your hands on acamera.
Yeah.
So you kind of are straddlingboth those worlds, which I think
is a good thing.
Yeah, I think, you know, listen,I look back on that time and it,
it does feel like an entirelydifferent universe and so much
of the things that were sodifficult or arduous or complex

(07:38):
to mount and do at that time.
Now, you know, there's an app onyour phone that can do half of,
what we were having to do withbig programs and computers and,
but Horror in particular was.
Part of the experiment was totry and shoot on as many formats
as possible.
So we were shooting VHS Digital,eight millimeter, 16 millimeter,
and at that time, digitizingeverything and bringing it into,

(08:00):
and I cut it myself, into finalcut.
And so it was a, again, a lotlearned and a lot of
experimentation.
But it was a period where you'reabsolutely right, it was a very
different thing.
There weren't creators every,in, every corner, everywhere you
looked.
And there weren't sort of, therewasn't content being made in
that way.
So when I look back on thatmovie, it was the most beautiful

(08:21):
thing about it that I couldnever recreate, which is maybe
part of just getting older andmaybe part of the world
changing, is that it was really,was made for no purpose other
than the love of making it.
And to see what we coulddiscover.
And, of course, everything nowhas become so monetized and so
what's the result?
What's it gonna do for me?
I look back on that as veryfondly.

(08:43):
It was a different time.
Oh, that is so wonderful.
Which leads us to, Jack GoesHome, by the way.
Amazing cast Jack goes home.
Thank you.
Rory Kin.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, so did Natasha Leone,Nikki Reed, Britt Robertson.
And, most of the cast, werepeople that I'd worked with and

(09:04):
had either formed friendshipswith or good respectful working
relationships with.
And so, Britt Robertson, I kindof wrote the part for, but with
Rory, for instance, I'd nevermet Rory.
I'd never worked with Rory.
I just really liked his work andreally respected him.
And he was my first choice, andhe was the first person we went
to, and he said yes immediately.
I mean, it really was kind of adream.

(09:25):
I.
Scenario, Can you give us the,elevator pitch Yes.
Jack Goes Home is a semiautobiographical, um, rather
dark psychological thriller, Iwould expect nothing less from
you.
You know me.
Um, but yes, Rory Culkin is ayoung man whose, parents have
been in a terrible car crash.
His father has died in thecrash.

(09:46):
His mother has survived, and hegoes back to his hometown to
take care of his mother.
And in the process of beingthere, discovers many cracks in
his understanding of hischildhood and his identity and
the identity of his parents.
And he's expecting his own firstchild with his fiance, who's
across the world and, at thetime, and it's about his
unraveling and, his spiral.

(10:09):
I started writing the film.
We'll, I'm sure we'll get to theprocess of writing and how my
sort of strange order of eventswith writing, but it definitely
had begun.
The idea of it had begun, whenmy father died, I was 22.
And my father and I were reallyclose and he was, remains a
great motivator and, and kind ofidol of mine.

(10:31):
Thomas, I'm so sorry.
I got to meet your mom and dad.
I'm very sorry.
You did.
That's right.
Yeah.
And you know, a lot of peoplefrom Terminator came to his
funeral, which meant a lot tome.
But I, I.
the evolution of Jack Goes homethough as a project was, I'm
sure you've had this as well, oryou've experienced this where
you, I'd been fully immersed intrying to get this other movie

(10:51):
made for about a year and ahalf.
And it, that was a totallydifferent thing.
It was a kind of very soberminded, romantic drama and that
had been going along and doingits thing, but it was just stuck
in, development land.
And I just sort of, out ofdesperation was like, I gotta
write something else.
Like, I gotta write somethingthat just gives me a break from
this.
And, with Jack Goes home, I'dwanted to make something that

(11:14):
was about someone my age,dealing with the loss of, a
parent kind of early.
And, in my case I had.
Also discovered the extent andseverity of, sexual abuse I'd
experienced as a child and sortof found this out, not from
anyone in my family.
It was from a neighbor.
But I sort of got the, realmeaty details on it as my father

(11:36):
was dying.
And so this kind of one twopunch was really what I wanted
to explore, but I didn't wannado it.
I didn't wanna explore it in akind of dreary, sad, victimized,
drama because A, I couldn'tthink of who that would touch.
And b, it just seemed a bitnaval gazy.
But when I sort of hit on, oh, Ican turn the intensity of what I

(11:58):
felt through this experienceinto a kind of horror and into a
kind of hitchcockian, strange,upsetting thing that kind of got
me going.
And so after years ofdevelopment, I finally just
pivoted and wrote.
the draft of the script and thenit moved very quickly.
I would love to hang a lanternon what you just said for the

(12:19):
writers out there, we all haveinteresting stories, but they
don't necessarily translate tofilm.
You can take your story and turnit into a horror film, a love
story, an action adventure, andbe true to yourself.
Yes.
we're going out here in, indifferent areas, but it's kind

(12:42):
of what's exciting to talk aboutwriting is that you do have
this.
Freedom, like you said, to Ithink for me personally, you
know that question of do youmake things for an audience?
It's such a strange questionbecause of course, I think we
all do the distinction isn't, doyou make it for an audience or
not?
I think it's more so how sincereand authentic are you going to

(13:06):
stay to what you want to share.
and how much are you going tokind of crumble under the fears
and pressures of, oh, well thismight alienate a few people.
Or this choice might, you know,befuddle someone, it's the
willingness and the courage to,to say, no, no, I'm gonna
continue on this path becausethis gives the strongest thing

(13:27):
to the audience.
To me, that's sort of how I'vealways looked at it.
And to ask yourself very much sogoing in as I did with that of
like.
Even if you're making somethingobscure and personal, you should
still, in my opinion, always askwho is this for?
And how is it going to reachthem?
What is it gonna do?
Because I do really think that,and I use the term art, but I

(13:48):
use it loosely for, it can alsoinvolve popcorn entertainment.
I think it is there to reachothers.
Its purpose is to open eyes and,pivot maybe points of view.
And I think it really does havethat power and it's the
necessity inherent to it.
So I always try and ask thateven if I'm launching into the

(14:10):
most seemingly obscure thing, Idefinitely try to think of how
to translate it best.
were you happy with the moviewith Jack's Home?
Yes.
With Jack's home, yes and no.
I hadn't watched it in years andI just re-watched it.
Afr, a writer friend of minewanted to see it and listen,

(14:30):
there's so much of it I'm reallyproud of, and I was 26 when I
made it.
I've obviously grownexponentially since.
And a lot of the growth I've,encountered as a writer and as a
filmmaker is because of lessonsI learned in that movie.
let's explain, you directed themovie I did.
Yes.
I'd love to talk to you furtherabout, I always tend to write

(14:52):
from a directing perspective,let's get into it right now.
I think that's fascinating.
in recent years, I've actuallybeen, hired as a writer to, sort
of figure out someone else'svision and they're not projects
that I'm to direct, and that'sbeen a whole reeducation because
I've always come from, in myforming of scripts, very much

(15:13):
from the filmmaker'sperspective.
So the camera language is wovenin, the basic production design
is woven in.
Everything, is there, everychoice, every decision.
And obviously when you are justthe hired writer.
you actually have to reallyfocus on not including all that
because you don't wanna step on,the toes of the creatives that
you're writing this for.

(15:33):
So I had to, it was reallyfascinating.
It was like, I sent in my,second or third draft or
whatever it was as here's thedraft and everyone really liked
these scripts, but every time itwas, can we do another pass
where you remove this and thenit was pass where you remove
this and it was educational?
in my teens, I educated myselfas an editor and I very much

(15:54):
feel that editing, it's myeditor brain is where I write
from, where I shoot from, whereI direct from.
And obviously it's the lastphase, but it informs.
In many ways, everything beforeit, the rhythm of a scene and
how I know I'm gonna get outtaone and into the other, it's a
wild thing to like, have noteven started writing a script,

(16:15):
but I know how I want the soundmix to shift from this beat to
this beat, you know?
and for the writers out there,you can learn this.
You can, like Thomas just said,maybe he overwrote, direction.
You can learn those things evenif you didn't instinctually,

(16:35):
know them at first.
now, what inspires yourstorytelling?
I tend to get really excitedabout, it's less a narrative
hook or a storyline that reallygets me going.
it's more, a sense of a placeand a feeling.
You know, it's a, oh, what isthe world of this story?

(16:55):
Or What is the world of thismovie?
And it tends to just kind ofcome about in.
In regular daily life.
I don't know if that's unique orif that's kind of general, but
I, it's oftentimes just aminuscule moment or a
conversation or a driving atnight with a certain song on the

(17:16):
radio or, you know, these, allthese little things.
I wonder if, people realize thatthose moments exist and they're
just missing them and, acreative person like you can
just, can tune into that.
I love that.
That's where you start from.
Oh, well, thank you.
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely, Ican't, say it's a, like a big,

(17:36):
uh, choice.
It just has always been.
I think as you said, I thinkanybody can tap into that
inspiration.
It's just about being presentand having a willingness to
follow the daydream and followthe, you know,'cause at first an
inspiration's pretty murky.
It's pretty vague.
You kind of don't really know,at least for me, sometimes I'll

(17:57):
have written a whole script andit's not until afterwards that I
start realizing, you know, yes,I knew what it was and what it
was about and what it was sayingon the surface when I wrote it.
But it may be sometimes it'safter the fact where I start
peeling the onion of, oh, butthis is really about this and
this is really about this.
And it's not that I didn't knowgoing in.

(18:18):
It's just more of asubconscious, inspiration.
And, you know, when that'shappened, that's really
beautiful too, because you startto.
You start to realize theconnectivity of everything, you
know, and that is a moment ofjoy when writing.
Yes, what makes a screenplaysuccessful?
Oh, that's such a difficultquestion.

(18:39):
I, I think it does depend on theproject and it does depend on
what you're, what you're tryingto do.
You know, I've read scripts thatare really bare bones and for
what they are, that bare bonesapproach, that succinct nature,
I think is so powerful andactually leaving a lot of, a lot
to question and, and envision onyour own as the reader is really

(19:00):
beneficial.
But then you have other projectsthat might even, be looked at as
overwritten or the stagedirection is too much of the
writer present, but maybe that'swhat works for the tone of that
thing.
and so in terms of pitching,again, I try to always come back
to really what is this thing'spurpose?

(19:21):
And like I said, I think youcan, you can really ask that
even in something very unique orvery personal or very.
On the sidelines of interest andyou, it, as long as you can
really tangibly tap into like,wow, this is how this could
reach this potential viewer orreader.
And it has validity.
I always just try and approachit from that.

(19:43):
Like, this is kind of the, thepurpose of the thing.
and then it's the sense of placeand how it's done and what it's
evoking.
And you know, when I've pitchedTV shows, obviously the
longevity of the plot and I hada show a few years ago that kind
of made it all the way to thetop at Showtime and a couple
other places.
And that was an interesting,that was really my first foray

(20:04):
into long form storytelling.
What was that about?
So that was really interesting.
It was a, it's, you know, andhey, it might still happen
someday, it's called Barracudamurder mystery noir set in a
Vegas drag club.
I'm in, I'm in, yeah.
So it's kind of a, strangemishmash of like, visually, it's

(20:24):
almost kinda like, showgirls,the nineties movie.
but in tone, it's quite, quiteserious and quite dark.
And, and it was fun because Ireally wanted to make that show
a 30 minute, drama, which, israre.
but I liked this format of kindof.
Rather than bloating story orextending things for the sake of
it, finding a way to approachit, how I would still approach a

(20:45):
movie in terms of like trim thefat, cut the nonsense, just get
to, which is very much at theforefront of my mind in
everything I write regardless ofgenre or whatever it is.
have you watched the studio?
So my husband actually iscasting associate on the studio,
so Yes, yes.
I know the show very well.

(21:06):
they cut the fat in that show?
You just go from heart stoppingmoment to heart stopping moment.
I know they do such a good jobof what you just said is your
type of writing.
The condensed.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, when Iwas probably around the time I
met you, one of my biggest, sortof teachers, you know, there's
a, there's a handful offilmmakers that I consider my

(21:27):
each one being like my ownlittle film school.
And one of them was the Austrianfilmmaker Michael Anneke.
And when he would speak aboutwriting scripts, one of the
quotes I always remember fromhim is he said, people ask me
where the density of my filmcomes from.
And it's that I come into thescene at the last possible
moment and get out of the sceneat the first possible moment.
And there's never a hello or ahow are you?

(21:48):
Or and if you look at his stuff,it's true.
I remember Don Johnson on NashBridges.
I worked, the last two seasonsof Nash Bridges.
Wow.
You know, Don Johnson, you know,has a bad rap, probably
deservedly so.
He's done some crazy things Butman, you have a career in this
business for 50, 60 years andgive me a call later.

(22:09):
Yes.
he prohibited establishing shotsHe was like, we're in the
building.
Do not show the outside of thebuilding.
Cut it.
Cut it, cut it.
that's so wild you say thatbecause, a friend of mine who,
I'm very fortunate and Irecommend if you are a brighter,
you know, I have sort of my, I.

(22:30):
Maybe three people who I takesomething to, to, to take their
temperature on it.
And they're all very different.
But, one of my friends who'sbeen kind enough to read, almost
everything I've written, he'sactually pointed that out
before.
He said, you, you don't everwrite establishing shots and you
don't ever kind of set up.
And that's interesting because Ihadn't realized I was doing
that, but now you mention it.
yeah, you rarely hear that, but,good for you, DJ Don Johnson.

(22:54):
That's right.
And by the way, I just wannatack onto that too, I think it's
really important as a writer andas a filmmaker, at least just my
opinion is, don't harass thosearound you and don't, ask too
much of people.
But I thoroughly alwaysrecommend share your project
with.
There with a myriad of peoplethat are all very different, and

(23:16):
even some that you think maybethis isn't for them, they won't
like it, or they won't get it,or they won't, whatever.
It's really useful to, take atemperature from everyone
because the way at least that Idifferentiate between useful
notes and notes to ignorebecause I think that's a really
difficult thing as a writermm-hmm.
Discern is if you get the sensethat someone's giving you a note

(23:39):
because that's just how theywould like it to be.
Like, that's maybe not a note totake if it rubs up against you,
you know, if it rubs you thewrong way.
But if it's a note where it isfor the general improvement of
what you're trying to do, if itgets what you're trying to say
across clearer, even if maybe itgoes against what you thought it

(24:00):
should be, you should considerit because.
I know, and I do the same withreading film reviews.
I and I, every negative reviewof what I've made has been
infinitely more useful than anypositive review of what I've
made.
Because even if I vehementlydisagree, even if I take the
stance of, well, this persondidn't understand what I was
trying to do, okay, but thatdoesn't, that's not a dismissal

(24:22):
of what they had to say, becauseyou should investigate, well,
how did this get somisconstrued?
How did this get misunderstood?
How did this get interpretedthis way or that way?
And what can I do in the futureto mitigate that?
And it's not about placating thereader or the critic or the
audience.
It's about getting to theabsolute clearest you can on

(24:42):
what you're trying to do and saythat is, oh, sorry, a plane is
going.
Could you hear that plane?
That's my ride.
It's here.
Thomas.
That is such great advice.
Don't get depressed.
Roll up your sleeves.
Look at it.
And oh, also, I liked what yousaid at the top about yes, you

(25:04):
have to give yourself out toread, but don't, ruin a
relationship by asking oneperson to read 10 drafts of your
screenplay.
No, never not try to avoidmultiple drafts.
Always.
They're just gonna hate you.
Do you have a favorite genre youlike to write in?

(25:24):
You know, I was just thinkingabout this a while ago.
the best way I can put it is Ijust love to write tension.
I think that probably out ofeverything I've written, the one
through line, since they're sovastly all over the place and
different from one another, theone through line is that there's
a, a sense of a ticking clockand a sense of what, where is

(25:45):
this going?
What's going to happen?
And I personally, which is adistinction that isn't really
talked about that much, To me,there's two ways of deriving
that tension or that magnetism,or that hold on the audience.
And one is from the narrative.
It's narrative revelations,narrative plot, twists,
narrative grip.

(26:06):
But the other is, comes from therelationship between the viewer
and what they're watching.
And a lot of my tension that Itry to build comes from building
a distrust between what I'mdoing and what you are
receiving.
And I think that for me, is whatexcites me most.
Where, it's hard to do without avisual analogy here on a

(26:27):
podcast, but.
to me, there's three ways inwhich a creator moves and one is
the come hither come to me, I'mbeckoning you.
I'll give you every piece ofentertainment you want.
Like whatever you want.
Here it is, you know, come andgrab it.
And then the other is the verypretentious, I make this for me
back off, go away.
I don't really care about whatyou think, you know, this is,

(26:50):
this is what it is.
And then the third one, which isthe one I like.
It's this sort of wink, wink,sneaky, no, no, no.
Come here.
I'm gonna show you somethinghopefully you've not seen
before.
I'm gonna give you a series offeelings you hopefully haven't
been through before, but I'mwith you and it's out of respect
for you that I'm gonna take youon this ride.
So let me take you on this kindof this wild ride that you've

(27:11):
hopefully not been on before.
And so it is both bold andsingular visioned, but it is
again, with the audience in mindand.
I love when I watch somethingand I don't know where the
director's taking me, or I don'tknow where the writer is going
with this, but I'm fully engagedand pulled in.
And to answer your question inthis very long-winded way, I've

(27:32):
never really been fully marriedto a genre, but I tend to write,
thriller, noir, horror, dramawith suspenseful aspects.
I'm not really a big comedywriter.
I like black comedy and I likesatire.
I write a lot of satire intowhat I do.
the script I just finished is areally interesting kind of

(27:52):
two-hander between this sort ofmiddle aged, middle American
nondescript woman and this 22year olds massive actress,
influencer star.
And there's a lot of satire anda lot of black comedy in it, but
it arises in the sort ofobservations of society and

(28:12):
culture and, the kind ofoxymoronic nature of so much of
what we consume and how webehave today.
So, you know, I like to findthe, the humor in that rather
than in situational or dialogueDo you have, writers who have
influenced you?
what interests me most is thekind of auteurist thing, right?
So a lot of the screenwritersthat have spoken to me were also

(28:34):
filmmakers, who write and directtheir own thing.
that to me has always beenextremely inspirational and
educational.
I love all the greats that I'vespoken about in terms of how
they write.
Just as much as how they makemovies.
'cause I also think that, thewriting is so, like, good
filmmaking and good writing.
They need each other.
They're, yeah, they'recodependent.

(28:57):
I really love readingphilosophy.
right now I'm reading theUncanny by Freud which I read
years ago and it's just sofascinating to wait.
You're reading Freud for thesecond time?
Yes.
could you get your husband onthe podcast?
I think I need to talk.
I know, I know.

(29:17):
It's terrible.
little light reading before bed.
A little light reading beforebed.
Yeah.
I can't help it.
actually, when we first kneweach other.
I had such kind of embarrassmentabout my deep love for, I don't
know quite how, what the properadjectives are, but highly
intellectual or challenging or,works because when you're young
and you're surrounded by, otheryoung people, they kind of look

(29:38):
at you as a hipster or a poseror a lunatic, or, I'm not sure
what, but over the years ofgetting older, it's been nice to
kind of land in like, no, thisis, these are the kind of
writings that interest me.
These are the kind ofconversations I wanna have.
And yeah, some of them are heavyand heavy and difficult, but
that, has its place.
Most definitely.

(29:59):
Oh, Thomas Decker, I'm so proudof you.
Thank you.
I really am.
very much appreciated.
It is very kind of you.
do you have a writing routine?
What do you do?
Yes, so I, I'll two answers tothat.
I'll try and keep it brief, butI do think it's a, for writers

(30:20):
is an important thing to figureout.
I tend to have the same approachin every script I've written.
At least that is mine.
Like I said, when I've beenoutsourced, it's been a
different, I just have toapproach this more as a
professional and do the job athand.
But when it's my own script, Ihave an insanely long
development stage.
Very long years.

(30:43):
this script that I just wrote isa good example.
I spent seven years developingit and wrote the first draft in
seven days.
so I spend a really long time oneach thing, getting to know the
world, figuring out all therules, figuring out everything
that's going on, and theneventually it reaches a point
where the outline can bewritten.
And the outline for me is veryextensive.
it's a roadmap to the wholemovie.

(31:04):
Preach, preach, preach.
I think it's really important,at least for me, I've never been
able to just sit down in frontof a writing program, be like,
okay, I'm starting a script, andwe'll see where it goes.
It just isn't possible for me.
I've tried it and it justdoesn't, it I need the whole
thing.
written before me in a way thatI can then translate the script
from.
And so by the time I write thescript, I'm really, all I'm

(31:26):
doing is finding the dialogue,finding the flow of
conversation, and obviously thebest way to translate what's
going on through stagedirection.
But the movie that, or the showor whatever it is written in the
outline.
How were you at stage directionwhen you first started?
Because you can literally sitthere and go, how does a person

(31:46):
open a door?
You know, you don't know how todescribe it.
you read it growing up'cause youwere acting since you were a
child.
But I'm just curious, how wereyou with stage direction?
I love that you asked that.
because it's actually, I thinkthe kind of the most challenging
and my favorite thing to writeis stage direction.
And I think there are so manyways in which you can.

(32:08):
Approach that, like I have afriend who really inserts
himself in many ways.
You know, the narrator, voice ofthe writer in the stage
directions, and there'ssomething more conversational
and approachable about it.
For me personally, I like tocarry over the brevity and
succinct focus, that I try tobring to the narrative and the

(32:29):
dialogue and the characters.
I also like to apply that to thestage direction.
And what I've learned over theyears, and this is in general,
was that, you know, when I wasyounger I would overwrite it
would be too much.
And it's actually, I think,easily, it's easy to do.
You can write a lot, a lot, alot, a lot of things that are
sort of describing something,but it's harder.

(32:53):
And better, in my opinion, tosort of go, no, what's the
cleanest, sharpest, tightest wayI can say exactly what's
happening versus many, many,many, many, many, many, many
flowery ways to say sort ofwhat's happening.
And it's harder because you arehaving to tap into the meat of
what it is rather than any ofthe bells and whistles.
you asked me earlier what to me,makes a great screenplay and

(33:15):
it's, I'm a stickler for, is itwell written?
I'm sure you know better thananybody, so many major studio
scripts I read will come my wayand I'll look at it and just be
like, regardless of what'shappening.
In the script, just thetechnical ability and prowess
of, of the quality of how it iswritten, spelled, you know,

(33:37):
punctuate, grammar, all of it.
If that's lazy, which is sooften the case or I, I sort of,
the script loses me.
So, you know, why should I applymyself to your writing if you
haven't applied yourself in thedelivery of it?
So I know that that's maybe justmy opinion and it's maybe
because my mother was an Englishteacher who was really tough on

(33:59):
me and everything I ever wrotegrowing up about all that.
But I do think it shows a levelof respect to your reader and it
shows a level of consciousnessbehind your choices.
writers out there, please gohighlight that, print it out,
put it above your desk.
Thomas speaks the truth.

(34:19):
I don't mean to over answer orgo on and on, but I do think
that much like acting, I'vealways said, yes, of course you
can go to school, you can go toclass, you can train, and all
those things can, they caneducate you and give you the
tools and everything else, butultimately whether you are able
to tap into that part ofyourself or not is kind of an
instinctive thing and kind of athing you're born with.

(34:39):
And it's kind of just a part ofwho you are.
And I think that tracks forwriting as well.
I don't think you necessarilyhave to.
Have a massive degree fromsomewhere in writing to find
your voice, to find your stamp,to figure out what matters to
you and how, and why you wannasay it.
I think maybe where theeducational elements do come in

(35:01):
is just in the, strength of youractual manuscript.
And again, I was very fortunatehaving been an actor for 32
years and reading scripts sinceI could read, it's been an
active education that I didn'tgo to university for.
But it was, you know, you, youread hundreds of scripts, you
start to deduce what works, whatdoesn't, what the best way to,

(35:22):
to articulate something isversus another.
but I would say to any writer, Ithink that's important to, to
focus on.
I just, I was just thinking asyou were talking, was it, is it
hard for you as an actor to,maybe see a problem in a script,
but it's not your job.
You're hired as an actor and yougo on set and you're hanging out

(35:43):
with a writer.
Is it hard for you not to go,hey, you know, the second
speech, do you think you coulddo, do you ever like, talk to a
writer on set?
And I have such respect forwriters, and even if it's a
script or a piece or a project Iand I, I always think that

(36:04):
filmmaking and TV making all ofit is, is should be completely
collaborative.
The writers and the actorsshould be speaking, the actors
and the directors should bespeaking.
Everybody should be doing theirbest.
Bringing their skills andtalents to the table to improve
the thing.
I tend, and maybe it's the childactor in me growing up, I
definitely see.
Part of my job is to take whatis placed in front of me and

(36:26):
within reason, make it true.
My job isn't to come in and say,well, I don't see how I can make
this believable.
So you need to change it.
and I see that a lot, and myGod, everyone from Hitchcock to
Wells has talked about that, theidea of actors coming and
saying, well, let's changeeverything.
Let's figure it out.
For me is kind of taking more ofa writer's perspective than an
actor's perspective.
And maybe because I am both, andbecause when I spend,

(36:48):
painstakingly long time figuringout exactly, the words of this
sentence, what it needs to be,to then have an actor come in
and go, well, that doesn't siton my tongue naturally, so I
need to change it to et cetera.
I felt that frustration.
So I, as an actor, really tryto, you know, even if I read a
line, I'm like, man, that's ahard one to make work.
Well, that's my job.
I'm always well aware that I amone piece and even as a, even as

(37:11):
director, even if I'm in fullblown, maniacal, okay.
It's my vision.
It has to be what it is.
You still have to come from theunderstanding that like you, You
are equal to every person thatis putting this thing together.
And without one, it doesn'twork.
And that includes all the waydown to craft service and set
medic, right?
So it's, think in all areas, ifyou can, including writing, it's

(37:33):
best to remove the ego.
It's best to, I will say briefdiversion.
I wrote this film in 2020 thatI've spent the last five years,
literally every day, workingtoward getting made.
It was two years of figuring outthe script and then I.
Sort of got a whole teamtogether and then replaced them
with another.
it's this long, arduous road.
And the reason that even thoughI've written so many things

(37:55):
since and have so many otherirons in the fire, it's the one,
it is the one, it is the like, Iwill die, you know, if I have
to.
Making this thing was because itwas the first thing I'd ever
written and was a real gamechanger.
That in terms of, it felt likeit was something that was like
beamed into me.
Like I was an open radio signaland this thing came in rather

(38:18):
than it being, oh, this is mycreation, this is my invention,
this is a part of me, in this.
And because what that as I knowas hippie dippy and far out as
that may sound, it's allowed meto defend it without involving
my ego because it doesn't feellike it's me and my thing.
It feels like it's this thing.
I've been tasked withtranslating and it's my job to

(38:39):
make sure that everything I'veseen, heard, felt a.
Million plus times internally isgetting onto the screen.
And so I've had options to makethe movie and I've said no,
because they weren't the rightones and it wasn't, it
ultimately, it wouldn't havebeen what the movie is.
And so in general, if you canfind ways to either organically
have your ego stripped of yourproject and it becomes this

(39:01):
thing that you're kind ofprotecting, or to consciously
say, I'm gonna ask for notes.
I'm gonna ask for criticalremarks.
I'm gonna put this in vulnerableplaces for me.
But that's okay because it's forthe betterment of the thing and
the betterment for me as awriter.
And my self-worth isn't wrappedup in my rapidity, in my
turnaround, in my praise.
I get, if you can reallyestablish yourself on a sturdy

(39:24):
ground like that, I think itreally opens up the doors of
what you can do and where youcan go as a writer.
And so I think that's reallyimportant for, especially for
young people, because I thinkthe self and the peace are kind
of inextricable unless you'reconsciously, actively removing
the you from what you're making.
Thomas, thank you so much forsharing that with our listeners.

(39:48):
How have you changed as awriter?
what didn't, you know when yousat down as that 14-year-old and
started to write, first of all,the evolution as a human being I
think is you grow as a person.
You grow as, an artist.
You in whatever your field is.
You of course, the more youunderstand about yourself and

(40:09):
life, the stronger and matureand more direct your work
becomes.
So obviously there's been the,just the natural evolution of
living.
Um, but at least for me, itreally has been about finding
discipline.
And I don't mean discipline interms of the act of writing.
That's another thing we can talkabout.

(40:29):
But discipline in terms of.
I think probably, I'll say this,the biggest game changer I've
had over time is the increasingrealization of how little time I
have and how I'm probably onlyreally going to have a handful
of things, in my lifetime.
You know, certainly, at leastfrom a filmmaking perspective,

(40:50):
that I will be able to leave asa legacy.
And so you start pivoting awayfrom all of it and start honing
in on, on the it, the it of whatyou wanna do and say.
And so I think when I startedwriting scripts at 14, there
were parts of life I wanted toexplore, characters.
I wanted to explore, I think inlarge part to learn and figure

(41:12):
out and understand the realworld and my life around me.
And now it's sort of gone in theother direction where I
understand my life and the worldaround me.
And now I'm informing andfilling my scripts with that
knowledge as opposed to usingwriting as a tool to discover.
Kind of what's going oninternally.
I'm a very personal writer.

(41:33):
It's different than if you'reaspiring to be a television
writer or something else.
Everything I'm talking about israther, deep rooted and
psychological.
Thomas, I think it fitsperfectly though for this
podcast and who our listenersare, Everything you are saying,
I have like chills on my arms.
I cannot wait to put thisepisode out.
you are really focusing in onwhat's gonna help our writers

(41:55):
out there, the listeners to thispodcast.
And I'm really, reallyappreciate this.
are you watching anythinginteresting on tv?
Oh, let's wait.
The studio opening scene.
Yes.
he's in that golf cart.
He goes by my favorite privatebathroom, you know, on a lot.
We all have our favoritegetaway.
Yes.

(42:16):
He drives right by it and thenit's the building right next to
what they call, uh, what wastheir headquarters or the
studio.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The account.
These, the Sarah Connor offices.
I know.
Believe me, when I first saw thefirst episode with my husband, I
went, oh, I know that building.
Well, by the way, on that show,I think it was a good example.

(42:37):
In a way, it encapsulates whatwe've been talking about, where
that was a TV situation and thatwas a traditional writer's room.
But I, at least from where Isat, I always felt there was a
personal stamp from every writerif you'd given me one of the
scripts and not told me whowrote it, by the end of the
show, I had a sense of what Danwas gonna write about and what
Tony was gonna write about andwhat Josh was gonna write about
it was a really good educationand like, wow, you can do

(43:00):
something this massive and partof a franchise and still find a
way to put your personal, I.
Stamp on air.
I loved those writers.
it was such a special moment intime.
Sarah Connor.
It was, wait, it was Terminator,the Sarah Chronicles.
Okay.
A short, easy title out.
Josh wanted the Sarah ConnerChronicles, but the studio, even

(43:24):
though we were on WarnerBrothers, the studio was on the,
was Fox and Fox.
Well, I guess'cause they ownedthe franchise, right?
Yeah.
They kept saying to Josh, youare insane.
If you don't put Terminator inthe title, that's the calling
card.
So the compromise was thelongest title in history,

(43:46):
Terminator.
The Sarah Connor Chronicle.
Which is so funny because if, ifanyone who knew Terminator would
know who Sarah Connor was, so,you know, they're synonymous.
But, but I have to say, I'm veryproud.
We did wipe all the terminatorsoff the back lot that were
possibly there and we madeWarner Brothers safe for the

(44:09):
studio.
We did.
We did.
It was, we did a fun job ofthat.
years after we finished the showfor some audition or some
meeting or something and myparking space was still there.
Still had my name, written onthe concrete.
Oh, get outta town.
Where was your parking?
It was right behind the, likeright by the sound stage, our

(44:29):
main sound stage, where thetrailers and everything were.
Uh, was that 24?
Is that the, that sounds thatsounds correct.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember, there was one stagethat, to get to it, Charlie
Sheen's, big old trailer.
Yep, yep.
Lost the shortcut to get to thestage.

(44:49):
So one day I was like, F it, Idon't care.
I'm going the shortcut and I'mgoing past Charlie's trailer,
which you weren't supposed todo.
And, I was lucky enough to seeCharlie smoking outside his
trailer.
So.
I remember they were shooting,Indiana Jones at the sound stage
next to ours and, Shyla B andhis dad used to come and hang

(45:12):
out in my trailer and smoke andplay guitar.
So I had a guitar there, getOutta Town.
I didn't know any of that.
Yeah, quite a lot during the,during filming.
'cause I would just sort of siton the steps of my trailer and
play my guitar, you know, like ayoung teen actor.
And, I think I met his dad firstand we just sort of started
talking and then he came overand, yeah.

(45:34):
Yeah.
whichever Indiana what that was,the Crystal Temple of Skulls of
Dew, I'm not quite sure exactly.
yeah, nothing more fun thanshooting on a set.
I agree.
I will say this though, whichties into everything else.
I really love a random, locationshoot somewhere.
I would never go, you know,because I'm always inspired.

(45:56):
It's a strange thing you put mein, New York or London, I have a
great time.
I'm overstimulated, I'm verypresent, but I'm not coming up
with stuff and I'm not writingthings down.
But you put me, like last year Iwas in, for all of November and
half of December I was at theborder of Kansas and Missouri,
kind of really rural And I had alot of days off and sure enough,
by the end of this kind of beingin the middle of nowhere in

(46:18):
really cold Missouri, I had awhole new script.
And I wrote that in Januarybefore I wrote this new one in
this other one in March.
And so I tend to be really.
Inspired by places.
You know, I, I love where it'slike, what's that one house at
the end of that road?
What's going on there?
Who lives there?
What's their story?
You know, that's what kind ofgets me going.
And then particularly when I amon location, I usually have

(46:40):
uninterrupted private time whereI'm not needed and I'm not being
bothered and I can just sit andwrite because to, to finish the
structure question, I really,which might be good for, writers
to hear, I don't know.
I've done the, trying to forcemyself into boxes of you get up
and you start writing at thistime and you do this many pages
a day.
And because I admire people whocan do that, I admire people who

(47:04):
are like, yeah, I just writefive pages a day or whatever.
I am not one of those people.
I write in big bursts and then Ihave periods where I'm just
sitting and thinking, and I, andI'm not writing at all.
And I've had some scripts thatI've written, like I said, the
new one in seven days.
And I've had other ones thatI've written over the course of
a year and a half.
But you know.

(47:25):
I stopped forcing a structureupon myself and instead actually
asked myself, okay, what is thepace that works for you?
And just do that the best youcan.
And the pace for me is sort ofto, once I commit to, okay, I'm
writing a script, it's that whenthe burst comes and 35 pages fly
out, just do it.
Go with it, don't question it,roll with it.

(47:46):
And then if the next day youdon't wanna write anything,
that's fine too.
And that's just been what'sworked for me.
I'm sure for many aspiringwriters, the placing the strong
structure would be more helpful.
But I think whatever yournatural rhythm is, just try and
make that the best thing you canas opposed to, comparing and
despairing and, and trying tofollow someone else's roadmap

(48:09):
of, of how to write.
Because I do think the most, Ithere is nothing in
entertainment or art thatrequires as much self-discipline
as writing to me.
it's still the thing of like,come on, you just have to sit
down and get this out.
But it's very different thanwhen you're shooting something,
when you're editing something,when you're scoring something,
it's, it requires a total focus.
And so I think you have to becompassionate with your own

(48:30):
inner rhythms to achieve thatfocus and sustain it.
More importantly.
and believe me, I'm very awarethat I'm speaking from a place
of privilege right.
my work is very freelance.
It's very all over the place.
So I'm not trapped in a workrhythm, you know.
But I have been, my side hustlewhen I'm not acting or writing
or directing, is I edit, I cutthings for work.
And when I'm doing that, it'skind of a nine to seven

(48:52):
schedule.
And so it is difficult, usuallyin those periods I'm not writing
anything and I, my heart goesout to.
The passionate writer who forlife reasons, most of their time
or their energy or their focusis being taken up by other
things.
I think that can cause a lot offrustration and a lot of
difficulty and I, I have nothingbut sympathy for that and I

(49:12):
don't really know what the, whatif there's any advice for a
situation like that I think youdid give, advice, don't punish
yourself if you don't have theperfect routine.
write the 10 pages and if youdon't write the next weekend,
don't beat yourself up.
Exactly.
Thomas, would you like to play around of brain drops before we

(49:34):
wrap up?
Oh my god.
I don't know what that is, butyes, sure.
Brain drops is a q and a withanswers only a writer can
provide God.
Okay, we're gonna see how manyyou can answer in five minutes.
I'm very scared.

(49:55):
are you ready?
I, I as ready as I'll ever be.
Okay.
I'm gonna start the clock.
When writing music on or off, itdepends, but usually off.
If you're reading a hard copy ofa script, one Brad or two.
Two.

(50:16):
Whiteboard or legal pad.
Legal pad.
Final draft or Celtics Finaldraft from the past or present,
what TV show do you wish yourode on?
Twin Peaks, widows and orphans.
Get rid of'em all.
I don't really care.
For the listeners, that's whenyou have one word that hangs off

(50:38):
a section of text or dialogue.
Kill'em all.
Favorite snack when writing?
Oh, it's embarrassing.
I love tater tots.
Do you cook them, Thomas, or doyou eat them frozen from me?
I, I do.
I oven them.
I, I throw a tray in and thenthey're just there to pick at

(51:00):
over time.
Favorite snack at Crafty, whichis Craft services.
Oh, I love those, uh, Welch'sfruit snacks that every craft
service has.
Those are great.
Do you come up with the titlefor your scripts at the
beginning or at the end?
At the beginning occasionallywritten, with an untitled

(51:22):
situation and then found it, butthat's really only happened once
or twice.
And actually, in fact, the titleis one of the things that kind
of gives me the rest of it.
Writing at home, PJ's, sweats,or clothes.
Sweats, shaded parking spotright next to the production
office.
Or 20 5K extra in the budget.
Oh, 20 5K extra in the budget.

(51:43):
your parking space is alreadythere at Warner Brothers.
That's right.
I, yeah.
Favorite time to write Day ornight?
Night.
Who would you hire?
A staff writer who never failsto write the perfect joke or
line of dialogue, or a staffwriter whose first draft needs a
minimal rewrite?

(52:03):
Oh God.
Probably this, probably thesecond one.
The, first draft that needs aminimal rewrite.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
You did this so fast.
I didn't even have to play the,alarm.
Where's the alarm?
You won.

(52:24):
That was fun.
That was, I can't believe Iunveiled my embarrassing tater
tot habit.
do you have socials out therewhere maybe writers could reach
out and ask you a question Yes,I really, my main one is
Instagram and that's just Thomasdot decker.
And, obviously Instagram's a animage based thing, but I try to
always include some extensivewriting and, uh, yeah, please

(52:45):
hit me up, DM me, ask meanything.
Thomas Decker, thank you somuch.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been such a joy to talk toyou, Sandy.
And that's a wrap for theWriter's Hangout.
Thanks so much for listening.
If you enjoyed the show, pleasetake a moment to leave us a
review on Apple Podcasts.
Your positive feedback will helpus keep the show going so we can

(53:06):
continue bringing you morefuture episodes.
Remember, keep writing.
The world needs your stories.
The Writers Hangout is sponsoredby the Page International
Screenwriting Awards, withexecutive producer Kristen
Overn, producer Sandy Adamides,and myself, Terry Sampson.
And our music is composed byEthan Stoller.