Ever wondered how to make your series characters captivating, engaging, and real? The key is layering their personalities, their stories, their motivations, and their unresolved issues in just the right way. Today, we're honored to have Linda Mather, author of a murder mystery series starring an astrologer-private investigator, on the show. As a seasoned writer, she takes us behind the scenes, sharing how she crafts her characters and their world with depth and intrigue.
The galaxy of characters in a book series are the lifeblood of your narrative. Linda uses her unique blend of experiences, along with a strong sense of place, to breathe life into her characters. We discuss her sixth book, which is based on Virgo themes, and how she makes her characters relatable and dynamic to a diverse audience. We also delve into the importance of maintaining a clear arc for the characters, balancing their traits, and drawing upon real-life experiences to breathe authenticity into their personas.
Lastly, Linda offers an in-depth look into how to develop characters and storylines, bringing a fresh perspective to the storytelling techniques. We discuss methods of slowly revealing backstories, using conflict to enhance character depth, and how to create a diverse and interesting world that keeps readers hooked. Listen in as we uncover the power of meaningful challenges, engaging editing, and the importance of continuity in a series. With inspiration from series like the BBC Four’s Swedish detective Beck or Louise Penny's Inspector Gamache series, we hope to give you the tools to weave captivating narratives and compelling characters that your audience won't be able to forget.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi and welcome to the Writing and Marketing Show
brought to you by author Wendy HJones.
This show does exactly what itsays on the tin.
It's jam-packed with interviews, advice, hints, tips and news
to help you with the business ofwriting.
It's all wrapped up in onelively podcast.
So it's time to get on with theshow.
(00:23):
And welcome to episode 108 toeight of the Writing and
Marketing Show with authorentrepreneur Wendy H Jones, and
it's an absolute pleasure tohave you with me here again
today.
It's I can't believe whatepisode 108 to eight of this
show is just staggering.
Far, far, so fast.
I cannot believe it.
(00:44):
Before I know where I am, itwill be four years of the show,
but I'm loving doing it.
Today I'm going to be talkingto Linda Mather about writing
and compelling series charactersthat will last throughout your
series, obviously, and I'm verymuch looking forward to that
because it's going to be acracking interview, I can tell
(01:06):
you.
And so what have I been up to?
Well, as I say, I'm gettingready to go to the States, so
I'm recording lots of podcastsso I can front load them before
I go to the States and I canjust settle down before I start
recording again, and I'm sure Iwill meet many fabulous authors
who we can actually speak to andI can write an interview for
(01:33):
the podcast, and I'm lookingforward to that.
I'm almost ready to go to theStates.
I'm busy packing now becauseit's only five days to go and I
will be on my way, in fact, aweek.
Today I will be waking up inVirginia, although I'll still be
asleep at the moment becausethere are five hours behind us
(01:53):
and I will still be asleep.
Well, I hope I'll still beasleep, because it will be 5am
and I would like to think Iwould be.
So what else has been happening?
Well, the new magazine WritersNarrative is absolutely storming
ahead.
Everybody's loving it and I'mso glad that people are enjoying
it.
Now, that's what it was for.
(02:15):
It's a free magazine and I willput the sign up link in the
show notes so that you can findthem.
So what of Linda?
Well, linda is the author ofthe Joe and Macy Murder Mystery
series featuring Joe Hughes, aprivate investigator who is also
an astrologer.
Joe is a determined andindependent sleuth who uses her
(02:38):
knowledge of astrology to giveher insights into the people she
investigates.
Her boss, david Macy, issceptical about this, but even
he can't deny they work welltogether.
The books are Forecast Murder,assign for Murder, murder as
Predicted, the Handman and aFuture Murder.
Book 6 in the series is due outin August.
(02:58):
Linda lives in Woostershire andbases the books nearby in the
Midlands and Cotswolds.
She once worked as a PI herselfand although she was nothing
like as successful as Joe, itgave her the idea for the series
.
In fact, having done many jobs,from working for the Coast
Guard to organise and graduateschemes in Scandinavia, she
often draws on her experiencesat work and a strong sense of
(03:18):
place to inspire her stories.
She has written and directedmurder mystery events, writes
short stories and is currentlywriting a new police thriller.
Linda is a qualified couch,enjoys yoga and walking and, of
course, astrology.
So what a varied career and I'mvery much looking forward to
chatting to her.
So, without further ado, let'sget on with the show and hear
(03:40):
from Linda, and we have Lindawith us.
Welcome Linda, how are youtoday?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Thank you, Wendy.
It's great to be here.
Thanks for the opportunity ofdoing this podcast and talking
to your listeners.
I'm good today, yes, and you.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I'm very well the sun's shining, which is always a
bonus in Dundee, I have to say.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, here in Worcestershire as well.
It's where I am, worcestershire, england, and here too, which
it hasn't been for a while, sothat's quite nice.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, that's what we like.
I mean here we could all thesepoor countries that are losing
the will because they've gotbushfires, forest fires and
we're wondering if we'll everget any sun.
But it seems to be in its ownlittle system here.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It does, doesn't it?
Yeah, I'm quite glad not to bepart of that.
There's some terrible storiesemerging from what's happening
in roads and other Greek islands, but yes quite glad to be here
in Wett, worcestershire,actually.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Well that's great.
Next week I'll be in sunny andwarm Virginia in the USA, so in
the heatway they've got over 100degree temperature.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Oh my goodness.
So that'll be fantastic, thoughI know you're looking forward
to it.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So, anyway, we'd better get on with the questions
, because I'm very excited tohear about everything that
you've got to bring us today,because I know you're going to
bring us a lot of value.
So I want to start by unpickingyour personal character, your
main character, because Ibelieve you have a secret
ingredient.
Please appease our curiosityand tell us what this is.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Okay, well, this is a bit unusual, I think.
So my character.
I have a series of five booksand the sixth one coming out
next month.
My character is a privateinvestigator, female sleuth, but
her sort of the secret, if youlike, it's not very secret.
It's on the covers but she's anastrologer, so that's not a
(05:42):
secret because obviously it'spart of what makes her
interesting.
She sometimes uses a bit ofastrology to solve the cases,
but it's a bit of a secret forme and even the readers don't
really know that I actually useastrology myself a little bit to
kind of give me a bit of atheme for the books.
(06:04):
So I'm working through thezodiac and the one coming out
next month is about Virgo, andVirgo has themes of like order
and service.
So when I'm writing it I thinkabout that.
And if the reader gets to knowthe series, well, there are
little clues in there, if you,about the astrology which can
(06:26):
give you an extra little bit ofa hint to find out who the
murderer is.
So it's just a little bit of aninsight into the characters and
as we're talking aboutcharacters, I thought that was a
good thing to start with.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Absolutely.
I think that's a cracking idea.
Now, when you run out of starsigns at book number 12, you
could start on the Chinese yearof the tiger, the ox.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I heard that's a brilliant idea.
I'm researching Chinesehoroscopes at the moment because
, if I'm really honest, I'm notan expert on Western astrology,
but I certainly need to do someresearch on Chinese if I'm going
to use that.
What a fantastic idea, wendy,I'll use that.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Well, I lived in Hong Kong for two years, so you
couldn't move without hearingabout these year of the whatever
.
I'm the year of the ox and I'ma Tarian, so I'm the most
stubborn person on the planet.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
But very creative.
You see you, Tarians, grab thatcreative stream.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Absolutely.
I can kill people in manydifferent ways.
I can talk beautifully.
Oh sorry, I meant in a literarymanner.
In a literary manner.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Of course it works.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Whistly onwards before I have the police knock
in my door.
I'd like to ask what are thekey attributes of a compelling
series character that will keepreaders engaged across multiple
books?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, so obviously my character, jo.
Jo, she's lasted five books andwe certainly have plans for the
12, as you say.
So I've thought about this andI think, obviously your
character.
If she or he is going to last afew books, they need to have a
degree of complexity, don't they?
They need to have some layersto them, like an onion, which
(08:05):
maybe in book one you might peeloff the top skin of the onion
but then, layer by layer, you'regetting deep down into the
onion.
So maybe this could be, youknow, some dark secret that you
know is gradually revealed.
They also have to have a strongmotivation.
(08:27):
So when my book Start, jobecomes a private investigator
with a blatant reason that sheneeds to make some money,
because astrology doesn't pay,let me tell you.
So she needs to make some moneyand that's why she starts the
job.
This does change as it goesthrough the series.
Their motivation does change,but it's one very clear thing
(08:48):
for me is to be really clearabout your character's
motivation and check.
It does change as you gothrough the series, but their
motivation should always be veryclear, in my view, and it's
quite handy if there's anunresolved issue that you can
come back to in the book.
So this could be somethingabout their past.
We might say a bit more aboutthat later.
(09:11):
Or I have a thing which in mybooks, where Jo has kind of an
off on relationship with herboss, her private investigator
boss who runs a PI agency, macy.
So they have, you know,sometimes they love each other,
sometimes they hate each other,sometimes they hate each other
and sometimes they fall out, andbut there's always a kind of a
(09:32):
bond between them and that givesyou something you can go back
to with each book, becausereaders, they kind of want to
know what's going to happen tothis issue.
It doesn't have to be arelationship, but something
that's kind of unresolved inbook one and does not get
resolved fully.
You know, in each book it kindof is an ongoing thing.
(09:54):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Makes lots of sense.
Thank you, that's a really goodanswer, thank you.
And again, I'm curious becauseone of the things about and
you've touched on this how canwriter strike a balance between
developing a series character'sstrengths and vulnerabilities to
create a well-rounded andrelatable persona?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, that's a good one, I think each.
I mean, obviously, even ifyou're writing a standalone book
, your characters have to bewell-rounded, so they have to
have flaws.
They can't be perfect None ofus are perfect but they can't be
all bad either.
They have to be, like you say,wendy, relatable, don't they?
With a series, actually, it'seven more important, really,
(10:39):
because you're living with thatcharacter.
You know you, as an author, areliving with that character for
years, possibly.
Think of Agatha Christie andGuaro.
She got fed up with him, didn'tshe?
Not that I'm putting myself onthe same level as Agatha Not by
any means.
But you know you have to livewith your characters, so you
have to.
Really.
They have to be well-rounded,if only for the author's point
(11:01):
of view, but also from thereader's point of view.
They really have to live inyour head.
So I thought about this and Ithink the way that I see it is
you have to know your charactersas well as you know your best
friend.
If you think of a couple offriends or maybe family members
that you know really well, youknow they've got strengths.
(11:23):
That's why you love them, butthey also have things that will
drive you around the bend.
Maybe they're always latewhenever you meet them or
they're a bit challenging to you.
On the other hand, you realiseyou welcome that challenge.
So think about your charactersas your best friends and also
(11:45):
the way they go about life willbe different from how you would
go about life.
Your characters need to bedistinct from one another.
So, to use an example, as I sayfrom my series Jo, if she's
suspicious about something, shewill tackle that suspect with
(12:07):
direct questions.
She's good at questions andsort of rational logic.
So that's just the way she.
That's the way she rolls.
So she will ask lots ofquestions and then she will
apply logic and reason to it.
She'll be very analytical inher approach, whereas Macy,
who's a boss, is also a privateinvestigator and often has his
(12:27):
own cases, sometimes the same asJo, sometimes different.
He's much less direct.
He would never go straight infor direct questioning.
He more likely would have amore kind of do his background
work.
He'd research.
He may even get someone else todo the job for him.
Quite a different approach.
So it's thinking about that,thinking about your characters
(12:49):
how might they tackle thingsdifferently and also thinking
about them as your friends.
That's my suggestion.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
That's a good one, thinking of them as your friends
.
I like that, and you have to beable to live with them for that
amount of time, you know ifthey start to annoy you and
you've got problems.
Yeah, and serious charactershave to evolve and grow
throughout the books or, likemost of us, learn things as we
go through life.
What are some effectivetechniques for ensuring
(13:19):
consistent character developmentwhile staying true to their
core traits?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, I think it takes a while.
The first thing to say is youdon't have to know your
character fully when you startwriting about them.
It's good to have a series arcWe'll all be familiar with that
as writers and a sort of overallplan for the development of
your character.
But let's not pretend that allseries writers start out.
(13:48):
We have a series that we watchand, you know, are familiar with
ourselves.
I bet those writers didn't setout with that arc clearly
defined from day one.
Yes, it's good to have it andto know where your characters
are going.
But it's okay to uncover it.
(14:09):
Like I was saying about theonion earlier, your character
does need to have enough depththat there is an onion there and
it's not just a radish, youknow.
So she does have to have enoughdepth to start with, but it's
okay, you don't need to know itall.
It's quite nice if you can peeloff a layer for yourself just
(14:32):
slightly ahead of where thereader is, so you kind of know
where they're going.
You don't have to have thewhole thing carefully planned.
I think it takes time torecognize their portrays.
I do think it's important thatthey do have portrays, but you
know.
So, for example with Joe.
She's not a superwoman.
That is one of the things thatis clear right from book one.
(14:55):
When she's desperate for money,she's living in a flat, she's
not making astrology work, butshe doesn't want to give it up.
She's desperate for money.
That's why she starts being aPI.
This makes her very grounded.
She always has that on her mindwhenever she's doing anything,
and that is, in a way, it's aportray to motivate her, isn't
it Like we were talking earlier?
(15:16):
And she knows she's notsuperwoman, so she doesn't try
and take on things that shereally can't do.
She knows she's not the police,for example, so she knows where
her kind of limitations are.
So you need to sort ofrecognize those kind of traits.
And I go back to the best friendmetaphor.
You might find out things abouteven your bestest bestest
(15:39):
friends the more you know them.
Well, hopefully you will.
You know they will grow.
You will grow and they may tellyou things that they didn't
originally tell.
You See, your characters in thesame way Doesn't mean that you
have to know everything aboutthem right from day one.
You have to believe in them.
They have to have layers Thinkof the onion but you don't have
(16:00):
to know everything.
But I do agree with you whenthe inferred in the question is
implied in the question.
They have to have some coretraits which are instantly
recognizable to you, to thereader, and you have to kind of
stick with those.
So you can change some things,you can add layers, but the core
of the onion kind of stays thesame.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, I love that answer because it really lays
out, and I love the analogy ofthe onion and the fact that you
want to have an onion in aradish.
I'm going to remember that forthe rest of time.
Now, that's a brilliant way ofremembering it.
So thank you for that.
I want to move on slightly, butI want to talk about diversity
and representation, because inmodern storytelling, that is
(16:46):
crucial in our characters.
So how can writers createinclusive and authentic series
characters?
But they need to resonate withdiverse audience.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I think this is such an important question, wendy.
I think it's essential.
We tend to think that this is amodern question.
You know, diversity, inclusion,engagement we hear a lot about
it, but actually it was alwaysthe case because books would
have been so dull for years ifthey've not had a diverse range
(17:17):
of characters.
You can't always be writingabout people like you, or people
, people who look like you orsound like you.
It does sometimes mean I'll behonest here I made a mistake
with this in one of the books Igave my.
You know, I have, like a lot ofpeople have a beta reader, don't
(17:38):
?
I'm sure you do.
I have someone who reads thebooks there's actually a friend
of mine, but she gives me verygood feedback and in one of the
books, the Hangman, it's set inthe Cotswolds and I had a real
cast of diverse characters.
I had a Russian, who's still inthe book, I had a Scottish lady
(17:59):
, I had an Asian lady, I had aPolish man.
I had a real, real huge range,much, much bigger than I'm
giving examples of that.
And when Glennis, my friend andbeta reader, read it, she said
Linda, this is Stroud, it is theCotswolds.
You know, you've got like theworld's population and I had to
(18:22):
scale back a little bit becauseI oh yeah, that is a bit
unrealistic.
So that's a mistake that I made, but it came from a good place.
It came from the fact that Idon't just want to be writing
about people who look like meand talk like me.
I think that would make thebook very dull.
So your question really was ahow to question.
(18:43):
It's all very well, that's myaim and you know I told about
time when I kind of got it wrong, went over the top.
Really, it's how do you do it?
Obviously, you have to draw onyou've only got yourself,
haven't you?
So your experience of life.
The more you draw on your ownexperiences, I think that's
helpful for a writer, but alsoto sort of enhance those
(19:06):
experiences by starting to lookout for things that look
different to you, Things likeeccentricity is different styles
, different ways of speaking,different accents, different
backgrounds so you can just usethe experiences you have Put
yourself out there.
You know I'm a great believerin.
(19:27):
Obviously, writing is a fairlysolitary and there's no getting
away from.
There's a lot of time spent atthe laptop indoors doing stuff
on your own, but it's importantthat you engage with the world,
and a wide world as well, andbring that experience into your
books.
Is that the sort of thing thatyou think will help Wendy?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Absolutely yeah, it does help and I like it at the
beginning saying not to bring intoo many different diverse
characters because you're justdoing it for the sake of it.
I mean my books, my detectiveinspector, Shona Mackenzie books
have always had Indian sergeantin the police, a female and the
(20:09):
Chinese one and that'srepresentative of Dundee.
I was brought up because we hadthe Duke Mills, we had
obviously Scottish, we hadIndian Scottish and we had
Chinese Scottish, so that wasrepresentative of Dundee.
Now we're now getting a biggerAfrican population as well, so
(20:32):
I've included a character thatis from African background, but
that's representative of where Iam.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Exactly.
I think that's absolutely key.
Yeah, I did.
I think I did go slightly overthe top in that, but it is the
idea is to try and represent theworld that you're living in as
much as you can and keep itinteresting for people, and
(21:00):
diversity is interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Absolutely.
I mean, if we all thought thesame way, it would be a very
boring book.
Be very boring world and a veryboring book, so you can bring
things in.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
It worked for Jane Austen.
She was famously wrote on apostage stamp, didn't she?
Very small cast of characters,very small world, but let's face
it, she was an absolutelybrilliant writer and she was
writing in the 1840s, when itwas the smaller world.
We live in a vast world now andwe need to show those
(21:34):
connections in our books.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Absolutely.
I mean to be honest with JaneAusten's books.
It would take them days to getfrom another bit of Britain.
So it was a really small castof people just in that one
little area, you know you shoulduse that you should use that.
Yeah, yeah, we can.
I mean, we can fly to Australiain a day now.
So we always look at back story, our characters back story, and
(22:02):
I'm wondering what role doesthat play in shaping their
actions and decisions throughouta series?
I mean, you've got to revealthe back story slowly, I think
as well.
That's my thoughts.
So how do you do that in each?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
book.
Yeah, I've been asked thisbefore and it really is, I think
, one that writers do strugglewith, because quite often a
character has had some likeharrowing event in their past.
You know, maybe they've lost aloved one and something that
really truly defines them.
This is a little bit like wewere talking about with portrays
(22:36):
.
Obviously, with portrays youmight be born with, but they
might also be things that you'velearned because of experiences,
and if that is a key experiencefor the character, then you do
kind of have to get that inthere somewhere.
And you can look at lots ofwriters who do this well, like
piece James, for example, whoseRoy Gray's character has lost
(22:58):
his wife and it's absolutely keyto the plot that this is, you
know, comes out early.
So I think that is just a case.
If it's a single fact like thatthat you have to get in, it's
about being creative about it,and as writers we're good at
that.
But I think my best bit ofadvice on this I've thought
(23:19):
about it and I think it's a bitlike again.
Imagine you met your characterat a party, right, and of course
you know the best place to beat parties in the kitchen.
So you're chatting to them.
They're not going to tell youtheir life story there and then,
but they'll just tell you alittle bit about enough to get
(23:42):
you interested, enough to makeyou think, oh, I like this
person.
You know she's an astrologer,that's weird, what's that,
what's that about?
And then you might, she mightreveal, oh, actually she's a
private investigator.
And so, okay, later on in yourlife you might be thinking, you
know, you might have a problemwith I don't know someone who's
(24:02):
texting you and you can't getrid of them and you think it's
some person and you might thinkabout that private investigator
you met at the party and go backto them.
Here you've got the beginningsof a story you can tell because
you've remembered.
Oh, they told me they were aprivate investigator, and then
you might hear more about thisperson.
That, to me, is the way to kindof work the backstory into
(24:27):
imagining you're meeting yourcharacters.
What are they going to tell youin the first chapter?
What are they going to tell youin the second?
They're not going to revealeverything straight away, so
it's sort of bit by bit andalways moving forward, so you
get the news about the character, the background on the
character, as the story develops.
It's not always possible to doit that way.
(24:49):
You do have to be a bit of ablunt instrument with it and
kind of say, oh, you know, andthere was this significant
incident in the person's past.
But that I think revealinglayer by layer again.
Maybe going back to the onion abit, that helps me in thinking
(25:11):
about it.
I quite like the party metaphor.
You don't find everything outabout everybody straight away.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Excellent, that's a great answer.
You're right, you need to dripfeed it and nobody tells you
their entire life story thefirst time you meet them.
So using it like that is areally good way of doing it.
You're touched on, you knowthey might have harrowing
backstories, but conflict andpersonal struggles they can
deepen a character's journey.
So how can authors introducemeaningful challenges for their
(25:40):
series characters that enhancethe overall storytelling?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, well, again, these kind of challenges, these
kind of do have to be built intoyour kind of overall plan.
So, while I said it, it's notessential to have a series of
with this kind of thing.
It definitely helps a lot.
So, what is?
Where do you want yourcharacter to be going?
(26:06):
What do you want her or him tobe learning along the way?
And then you create thechallenges that is going to
create that development.
So, for example, one of Joe'skind of struggles, if you like,
is to be independent.
She definitely wants to be anindependent woman.
She wants to live her own life.
She doesn't want to live thelife of her parents who set out
(26:27):
for her, and she wants to be, asI say, an astrologer, which is
not the easiest career, and shewants to be self-employed.
So all this requires money andindependence, and a lot of the
story is around the sort ofunderlying development, is
around her building and creatingthat independence, including
her off on struggles with her,with her boss, you know.
(26:49):
Does she love him, does she not?
Does she love him?
Does she hate him?
Some of that is about her beingreally quite an independent
woman and disagreeing quite alot and being quite challenging.
So that's a clear development.
I'm not saying I had all thatplanned right from the start,
(27:09):
but I sowed the seeds of that inthe first book and then just
gradually kind of nurture thatas it goes through.
I know, kat, I know authors arefond of saying that you kind of
characters surprise you andit's a nice thing.
When that does happen, you getan element of that.
(27:29):
And I don't want to take awaythe mystique of that, because
when it does happen, most of uswriters will have experienced it
.
It is really nice when acharacter surprises you, but I
don't think they should surpriseyou too much.
For example, joe sometimessurprises me with their actions.
So I'll be a part of the bookand I'll be thinking we've
(27:52):
probably all got this in somebooks.
You think not much, as you know,where am I going with this?
What's going to happen next?
And Joe will suddenly get upand go out and kind of attack
the world.
Is it where?
Right, I'm not going to sithere and let the world come to
me.
I'm going to go out and asksome questions, I'm going to
interview a suspect, I'm goingto go to the house where it
(28:14):
happened or wherever it might be, and that moves the action on.
I can't you know.
That is a nice kind of asurprise.
You do not want your charactersto be surprising you at deep,
fundamental levels.
These things, I think, have tocome from you.
You have to be driving thecharacter.
That's just my view.
(28:34):
I know that it's.
Some people get reallypleasantly surprised when their
character does like a 360 turnon them, but I like to be a bit
more in control of mine.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Excellent.
Well, my character doesn't do360 turns.
She does surprise me.
However, I have to say.
This character has just stolento the book without a buyer
leaving there, and I'm like howdid that happen?
I never invited you in andthey're there and they won't
leave.
You know, like, just get out ofmy book.
You know, and one of my maincharacters did that.
(29:04):
In fact it was.
There's two main characters inthe Cascaley More Investigates
series and just this ex convictdwarf just strolled in and said
I'm your main character.
No, you're not.
And when I am, everyone lovesthem.
Everyone loves them.
Everybody loves a bad boy.
You know, all the women in reallife love them.
(29:25):
All the women in the books lovethem.
I haven't seen them in there hewas.
Why did you come from?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I know it is nice when something like that happens
.
I completely agree, and you geta real delight from that as a
writer and also that slightsense of you're kind of growing
into something that I didn'treally expect.
How did that happen?
Yeah, it's a nice feeling.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
To be honest, if I'd realized that was going to
happen, I would have called itthe Cascan Quill Mysteries
instead, because his name isQuill Cascan Quill Mysteries
instead of the Cascaley MoreInvestigates Mysteries, you know
, but hey, what can you do?
He just came there, he was.
So I'm wondering are there anynotable examples of series,
(30:10):
characters from literature orother media that writers can
study to better understand theart of crafting compelling
ongoing personas?
That's a long sentence.
Where did that come from?
Really, I never practiced thatone before I sent it to you.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Well, I'm really glad you sent it to me because these
are very thoughtful questions.
So they really did, you know,really get me to think and
that's I really enjoyed it.
But this answer is verypersonal.
It's almost like desert islanddiscs really.
So I've chosen three that Ilook at and I really admire,
(30:47):
from different sort of mediaWell, two different media.
So I really like Beck.
Is anyone the Swedish detective?
There are books and plays.
Indeed he's very famous and inSweden, but the best portrayal
of him, I think, is in the BBCFour, channel Four, bbc Four
(31:09):
series on him, which isabsolutely brilliant.
And the reason why I like thatis because it's a set of series
characters, it's a whole team.
This is a great example, by theway, of where you don't have to
reveal the backstory ofeverybody in every episode.
You don't.
(31:29):
You know, in every book They'veall got backstories and there's
a, you know there's a big thinggoing on between his chief
investigator and her juniorwhich is clearly against all the
rules, and you know, that'sobvious to everybody right from
the start.
But even then you don't knowall their history, you don't.
You just, you just sense it.
(31:50):
You can just just like youwould like, I say if you met
these people at a party youthink, oh, there's something
going on there.
You wouldn't know it all.
You don't need to know it allas a reader, in my view, or, in
this case, as a viewer.
So I love Beck.
I think they're well written asbooks and plays and it's great
on that series.
So that's one.
I think those characters havedepth and they carry on from
(32:13):
episode to episode, sometimeshighlighting one of them,
sometimes another, and it's atemplate I will admit that I use
.
I'm currently writing a policeprocedural and that's the team
and I freely admit I have triedto emulate that standard and
whether it'll be as good as thatI doubt, but I'm doing my best.
(32:37):
Second one is also very personal.
So I'm a big fan of LouisePenny, canadian writer,
inspector Gamash.
She does write the books aswell, but the Inspector Gamash
series I really love.
They have a kind of a messageto them where they're a little
bit even go sometimes into a bitkind of magic realism or a bit
(32:59):
surreal.
May not be to everyone's taste,but I think they're absolutely
brilliant.
Again, she has a cast ofcharacters who have difficult,
layered backgrounds.
Again, you don't necessarilyknow all this, you could.
Just she's written.
I mean, there's about I don'tknow 15 in the series.
You can pick up any of them,just like I hope you can with
(33:20):
mine you can.
It's a standalone book, youdon't have to read the others
around it, and I try to aim forthat with mine as well.
They're all standalone but theyall have serious characters
that develop all the way through.
That's kind of she's my sort ofrole model for that.
So really like Louise Penny, Ithink she does that brilliantly.
And then outside of crime, Isaw well, this is done elsewhere
(33:44):
, very well too.
So I would think of some ofyour favorite songas and I
picked out one.
I mean there are many, you knowthey're all foresighted saga.
Or you know there are manybooks were particularly around
families, family sagas, whereyou know characters go on from
generation to generation.
(34:05):
You get that real sense ofcontinuity.
You know these people.
So the best example I've gothere is if you haven't read the
Casalette Chronicles byElizabeth Jane Howard, amazing
series of family growing up.
I think it starts just beforethe Second World War and then
goes right up to the sixties.
Really really good in depthbooks, again, very layered
(34:29):
characters, and although it is avery well-renowned series, I
don't think she planned it allout in a series arc either,
because they do surprisingthings, but they all stay true
to themselves.
So those are my three examplesof series characters and in
finding them I realized how muchI like series and that's
(34:50):
probably why I write a series.
I do enjoy that continuationfrom book to book.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Excellent, excellent examples, I have to say.
So how can authors maintaincontinuity and avoid
inconsistencies in their series,characters and their
personalities, and motivationand arcs as the story progresses
?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Now this comes back to the other bit of writing
which we know really well whenwe haven't talked about.
So it's a good one, and that isto me.
This is about the editing.
So I know I've got a friend whois a writer and she says it's
20% writing, 80% editing.
I absolutely agree, the writingis important, but I do a lot of
(35:34):
editing and this is where thiscomes in.
So we talked about the portraitsearlier, didn't we?
And I'd like to think thatthose are sort of so innate,
like I know Jo, like I know mybest friend, so I can write
about her just as I could writeabout my best friend.
So I'm not gonna probably getthings wrong If she's always
(35:55):
punctual, she's always punctual.
If she asks great questions,she asks great questions.
I'm not gonna get things likethat wrong.
But you might want to stilledit, of course.
You know how much of this doyou want, how little?
When is very important?
When do these things come outabout them?
This is important, like aboutthe backstory and so on.
(36:16):
So a lot of things we've beentalking about you would shine
and polish during the editing.
But sometimes the details arewhere the editing is absolutely
crucial and where I might gowrong.
I'll give you an example here.
While I'm not gonna go wrongabout my character's
personalities and how they feeland kind of how they respond and
(36:41):
they're dynamic with each other, but I do sometimes go wrong on
details.
And so I cannot get in my headthe color of Jo's cat.
She has two cats as we gothrough the series because she
moves house at least once, soone cat stays behind and then
she gets another cat when shemoves to the cotswolds.
I have to remind myself eachtime I write about or think
(37:04):
about these damn cats what colorthey are and because for some
reason that's a detail that doesnot stick in my head or the
details so that and yet that'squite key to this series
character Things like color ofeyes Well, if you're a very
visual person you're not gonnaget that wrong, but they're
(37:25):
things.
Colors of the kind of cars theydrive this is important as well.
And the tight mate model ofcars they drive this sort of
thing is important.
And these are the details thatreally good editing.
So I don't think you're gonnafind mistakes in your core trays
or the way your charactersbehave, but you might find here
(37:47):
that inconsistencies in thedetail around them and obviously
, as readers and we're allreaders we know how important
that is.
So if it's a ginger cat at thestart of the book, it needs to
be a ginger cat throughout thebook.
Note yourself, linda.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Well, there was one example, one very famous writer.
I went to see when they weretalking and they said that I
mean there were on book about 12or 13.
And somebody wrote to them.
A reader wrote to them and saiddo you realize?
Your character had blue eyesfor the first four books and has
now had brown eyes for the restof them.
Yeah, and I didn't care, to behonest, they just left it.
(38:30):
Yeah, yeah, I could see myselfdoing that.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
I could see myself doing that because I'm not
terribly visual.
So things like colors, I dohave to check myself.
I think I might be slightlycolor blind, but it's just not,
it's not seen around the bookbecause your character's eye
color changes.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
To be honest, you could just say thank you for
picking up.
I did it deliberately in thehope that anybody would see it.
I love that.
I'll remember that.
I don't know what that authordid, but that would be my
response.
Well done, yeah, See you nexttime, because you're the first
person to have mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Absolutely.
I'll remember that when someonechallenges the color of the cat
, but I mean the sort of oneword answer which I could have
said really, is editing herereally really good?
Editing, is it the heart of anygood book?
I believe you have to be your,you have to get used to being
your own worst critic andaccepting also feedback from
(39:23):
others with an open heart.
Feedback is just a gift, anabsolute gift.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah, so we're getting towards the end of it
all, so what would be your topthree tips for my listeners to
take away from this episode?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Okay.
So this thing about knowingyour characters as well as you
do your friends, I think isimportant.
So I'm really understandingthat your characters have flaws,
that they are well rounded,that they're 3D characters.
I have done an exercise once,which was quite good, where you
actually visualized yourcharacters so you can kind of
(40:02):
see them and walk around them,notice how they move their heads
, you know how they maybe makegestures.
So that's quite an interestingthing to do.
If you've got a kind of amoment, of kind of meditative
moment, you can actually kind ofvisualize your character
walking towards you.
So it isn't just a case ofknowing them deep down like you
(40:24):
do your best friend, but if theywalk towards you, you would
recognize them as you do yourbest friend with or family
member if that works for youwith all their flaws, all their
history, all their habits.
You just know that.
So that's that's my first one.
Know your characters like youdo your best friends or your
(40:46):
closest family members and tryto love them in the same way
with all their faults.
My second tip about creatinggood series characters is create
a dynamic.
So set up characters who do notalways get on and this is kind
(41:09):
of a bit obvious really, Isuppose but it helps to take the
book.
So, you know, takes takespeople's interest from one book
to another.
So I have a team in the in thecurrent series and in the series
police procedural that I'mwriting.
I quite like a team ofinvestigators and one of Macy's
(41:32):
team that Joe works with.
She really doesn't get on with.
She sees him as a kind ofmiddle aged bigot and they've
got completely different viewson everything.
But he is quite funny and so hedoes make a laugh.
He does get her out of a holeoccasionally as well.
So create an interestingdynamic.
Don't just make them hate eachother although that is also
(41:53):
interesting, you know, and lotsof good authors have done that,
and you know that's.
That's quite good too.
You can have people who's youknow like in a romance classic
romance people start off hatingeach other but then they end up
being very fond of each other orwhatever.
You can have that.
That works, but I like it alittle bit more nuanced.
So you know, Joe and Alan,they're very different and
(42:14):
there's some part of her thatdoes respect him, even though he
irritates her.
He drives her mad and he'sreally different and he has
irritating habits as well whichdrive around the bend.
But she kind of knows that he'sdug her out a few holes, so she
also kind of rates him and theystill get impatient with each
(42:35):
other and that's a creativedynamic.
That's just a very simpledynamic.
Alan isn't even in all thebooks, but just create dynamics
between your characters so theyspark off each other and that's
worth thinking about beforeputting pen to paper.
And then that links into mythird tip, which goes back to
(42:57):
your great question aboutdiversity of characters, and
this is allow your characters tobe very different from you.
Make sure they are verydifferent from you.
This is not as easy as itsounds because fundamentally all
our material has to come fromus.
It's not like a playwrightwhereby you can give your
(43:22):
material to someone else andthey can breathe new life into
those characters.
It must be wonderful to do that.
I have written plays sometimesand seen people do it, and it is
wonderful because they bringsomething different which you
could not bring.
You can only provide the words.
But if it's a book and we'retalking about books here it's
(43:42):
got to come from you, and yetyou must be as many different
versions of yourself as you canget on the page.
So they are all diverse,they're different from each
other.
They have this dynamic.
They may not like each otherand they are also from a diverse
range of backgrounds.
So make your characters asdifferent from you as you
(44:06):
possibly can and give them lotsof creative challenges with each
other.
Those are my three things Knowthem well, create a dynamic and
make them really different.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Excellent, great tips .
Now I know we've been talkingabout your books all the way
through, which has beenbrilliant because it's given us
examples, but can you, verybriefly, is there anything else
you want to tell us about yourbooks?
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Thank you very much.
Okay, so yeah, the series ispublished by Joffy Books and
they're on Amazon.
My name is Linda Mather, soit's M-A-T-H-E-R.
Up in Scotland you probably sayMay there, but my family say
Mather for some reason.
But it really doesn't matter,because you can find me there on
Kindle as Linda Mather.
(44:56):
And there are five books.
So the first one is ForecastMurder, and so if you want, if
you're like a series and youwant to start at the start, you
can start with Jo, where shewakes up and thinks one day I
need some more money.
So that's the first one.
So go right through to bookfive, which was published last
year.
They're all set locally to mein Worcestershire, so Midlands,
(45:19):
birmingham, coventry and theCotswolds, but they do bring in
lots of other locations as well.
I don't know, like you, wendy,I've moved around a third bit.
In fact, we both lived inSouthampton for a while, didn't
we?
We got that in Covent, yeah.
And the latest book which waspublished last year Future
Murder that uses Bournemouth asa location.
So it starts in the Cotswolds,but her mission PI job is in
(45:42):
Bournemouth, so I was able tobring in some of my
recollectioners living downthere.
And then the new book.
If you want to look out forthat, that would be marvelous.
It's called A Perfect House forMurder.
It's set very locally in theCotswolds and it is a real now
that one is written, if you like, on a postage site.
So it's got a small cast ofcharacters and a mysterious
(46:05):
killing amongst a small localcommunity and the question is
that Joe finds herself caughtinto it to help out her friend.
And it's her first actual PIjob on her own without Macy.
So she's kind of set up on herown.
By the time we get to this bookand she's realized she does
actually like she's not justdoing it for the money, that she
(46:28):
actually enjoys applying heranalytical skills to
investigative work.
So it's a new venture for herto and that's Perfect House for
Murder and is out in August.
So hopefully we'll be able toget that quite soon.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Excellent.
Well, I'm hoping it will be outby the time this airs, because
it won't air for a few weeks yet.
So the book will be out.
And my very final questionwhere can my listeners find out
more about you and your books?
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, so I'm Linda Mather on Facebook and on
Twitter.
You can just search for me.
I think it's I, linda Mather onTwitter, instagram it's Linda
Mather, writer, and, of course,on Amazon I have an author's
page and I don't have a websiteactually, although probably
ought to get around to doingthat, but busy, busy writing the
(47:17):
new series, which is a policeprocedural.
So maybe by the time you getthis there might be a website,
but I suspect we might have towait till the end of the year
before I get.
I take my hat off to you, wendy.
Wendy's involved in so manyventures.
The magazine that's just comeout is absolutely brilliant, I
think, a great resource forwriters, so I really ought to,
(47:41):
you know, get a bit.
I take a leaf out of your book,wendy, and try a few more
platforms to get myself outthere.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Hey, thank you, and it's been an absolute pleasure
having you here today.
Thank you so much, linda.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Thank you, it's been absolutely fun.
They were great questions,really thoughtful, thought
provoking questions, and Ireally hope that your listeners
will kind of see that I've justbeen sharing my experience from
the heart really, and keepwriting is my best tip.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
So enjoy the rest of your day.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Thank you, bye.
Bye, enjoy America, thank you,see you soon.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
That brings us to the end of another show.
It was really good to have youon the show with me today.
I'm Wendy H Jones and you canfind me at wendahechjonescom.
You can also find me on Patreon, where you can support me for
as little as $3 a month, whichis less than the price of a tea
or coffee.
You go to wwwpatreoncom.
(48:46):
Forward, slash wendahechjones.
I'm also Wendy H Jones onFacebook, Twitter, Instagram and
Pinterest.
Thank you for joining me todayand I hope you found it both
useful and interesting.
Join me next week when I willhave another cracking guest for
you.
Until then, have a good weekand keep writing, keep reading
(49:09):
and keep learning.
Hi and welcome to the Writing and Marketing Show
brought to you by author Wendy HJones.
This show does exactly what itsays on the tin.
It's jam-packed with interviews, advice, hints, tips and news
to help you with the business ofwriting.
It's all wrapped up in onelively podcast.
So it's time to get on with theshow.
(00:23):
And welcome to episode 108 toeight of the Writing and
Marketing Show with authorentrepreneur Wendy H Jones, and
it's an absolute pleasure tohave you with me here again
today.
It's I can't believe whatepisode 108 to eight of this
show is just staggering.
Far, far, so fast.
I cannot believe it.
(00:44):
Before I know where I am, itwill be four years of the show,
but I'm loving doing it.
Today I'm going to be talkingto Linda Mather about writing
and compelling series charactersthat will last throughout your
series, obviously, and I'm verymuch looking forward to that
because it's going to be acracking interview, I can tell
(01:06):
you.
And so what have I been up to?
Well, as I say, I'm gettingready to go to the States, so
I'm recording lots of podcastsso I can front load them before
I go to the States and I canjust settle down before I start
recording again, and I'm sure Iwill meet many fabulous authors
who we can actually speak to andI can write an interview for
(01:33):
the podcast, and I'm lookingforward to that.
I'm almost ready to go to theStates.
I'm busy packing now becauseit's only five days to go and I
will be on my way, in fact, aweek.
Today I will be waking up inVirginia, although I'll still be
asleep at the moment becausethere are five hours behind us
(01:53):
and I will still be asleep.
Well, I hope I'll still beasleep, because it will be 5am
and I would like to think Iwould be.
So what else has been happening?
Well, the new magazine WritersNarrative is absolutely storming
ahead.
Everybody's loving it and I'mso glad that people are enjoying
it.
Now, that's what it was for.
(02:15):
It's a free magazine and I willput the sign up link in the
show notes so that you can findthem.
So what of Linda?
Well, linda is the author ofthe Joe and Macy Murder Mystery
series featuring Joe Hughes, aprivate investigator who is also
an astrologer.
Joe is a determined andindependent sleuth who uses her
(02:38):
knowledge of astrology to giveher insights into the people she
investigates.
Her boss, david Macy, issceptical about this, but even
he can't deny they work welltogether.
The books are Forecast Murder,assign for Murder, murder as
Predicted, the Handman and aFuture Murder.
Book 6 in the series is due outin August.
(02:58):
Linda lives in Woostershire andbases the books nearby in the
Midlands and Cotswolds.
She once worked as a PI herselfand although she was nothing
like as successful as Joe, itgave her the idea for the series
.
In fact, having done many jobs,from working for the Coast
Guard to organise and graduateschemes in Scandinavia, she
often draws on her experiencesat work and a strong sense of
(03:18):
place to inspire her stories.
She has written and directedmurder mystery events, writes
short stories and is currentlywriting a new police thriller.
Linda is a qualified couch,enjoys yoga and walking and, of
course, astrology.
So what a varied career and I'mvery much looking forward to
chatting to her.
So, without further ado, let'sget on with the show and hear
(03:40):
from Linda, and we have Lindawith us.
Welcome Linda, how are youtoday?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Thank you, Wendy.
It's great to be here.
Thanks for the opportunity ofdoing this podcast and talking
to your listeners.
I'm good today, yes, and you.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I'm very well the sun's shining, which is always a
bonus in Dundee, I have to say.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, here in Worcestershire as well.
It's where I am, worcestershire, england, and here too, which
it hasn't been for a while, sothat's quite nice.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, that's what we like.
I mean here we could all thesepoor countries that are losing
the will because they've gotbushfires, forest fires and
we're wondering if we'll everget any sun.
But it seems to be in its ownlittle system here.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It does, doesn't it?
Yeah, I'm quite glad not to bepart of that.
There's some terrible storiesemerging from what's happening
in roads and other Greek islands, but yes quite glad to be here
in Wett, worcestershire,actually.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Well that's great.
Next week I'll be in sunny andwarm Virginia in the USA, so in
the heatway they've got over 100degree temperature.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Oh my goodness.
So that'll be fantastic, thoughI know you're looking forward
to it.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So, anyway, we'd better get on with the questions
, because I'm very excited tohear about everything that
you've got to bring us today,because I know you're going to
bring us a lot of value.
So I want to start by unpickingyour personal character, your
main character, because Ibelieve you have a secret
ingredient.
Please appease our curiosityand tell us what this is.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Okay, well, this is a bit unusual, I think.
So my character.
I have a series of five booksand the sixth one coming out
next month.
My character is a privateinvestigator, female sleuth, but
her sort of the secret, if youlike, it's not very secret.
It's on the covers but she's anastrologer, so that's not a
(05:42):
secret because obviously it'spart of what makes her
interesting.
She sometimes uses a bit ofastrology to solve the cases,
but it's a bit of a secret forme and even the readers don't
really know that I actually useastrology myself a little bit to
kind of give me a bit of atheme for the books.
(06:04):
So I'm working through thezodiac and the one coming out
next month is about Virgo, andVirgo has themes of like order
and service.
So when I'm writing it I thinkabout that.
And if the reader gets to knowthe series, well, there are
little clues in there, if you,about the astrology which can
(06:26):
give you an extra little bit ofa hint to find out who the
murderer is.
So it's just a little bit of aninsight into the characters and
as we're talking aboutcharacters, I thought that was a
good thing to start with.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Absolutely.
I think that's a cracking idea.
Now, when you run out of starsigns at book number 12, you
could start on the Chinese yearof the tiger, the ox.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I heard that's a brilliant idea.
I'm researching Chinesehoroscopes at the moment because
, if I'm really honest, I'm notan expert on Western astrology,
but I certainly need to do someresearch on Chinese if I'm going
to use that.
What a fantastic idea, wendy,I'll use that.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Well, I lived in Hong Kong for two years, so you
couldn't move without hearingabout these year of the whatever
.
I'm the year of the ox and I'ma Tarian, so I'm the most
stubborn person on the planet.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
But very creative.
You see you, Tarians, grab thatcreative stream.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Absolutely.
I can kill people in manydifferent ways.
I can talk beautifully.
Oh sorry, I meant in a literarymanner.
In a literary manner.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Of course it works.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Whistly onwards before I have the police knock
in my door.
I'd like to ask what are thekey attributes of a compelling
series character that will keepreaders engaged across multiple
books?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, so obviously my character, jo.
Jo, she's lasted five books andwe certainly have plans for the
12, as you say.
So I've thought about this andI think, obviously your
character.
If she or he is going to last afew books, they need to have a
degree of complexity, don't they?
They need to have some layersto them, like an onion, which
(08:05):
maybe in book one you might peeloff the top skin of the onion
but then, layer by layer, you'regetting deep down into the
onion.
So maybe this could be, youknow, some dark secret that you
know is gradually revealed.
They also have to have a strongmotivation.
(08:27):
So when my book Start, jobecomes a private investigator
with a blatant reason that sheneeds to make some money,
because astrology doesn't pay,let me tell you.
So she needs to make some moneyand that's why she starts the
job.
This does change as it goesthrough the series.
Their motivation does change,but it's one very clear thing
(08:48):
for me is to be really clearabout your character's
motivation and check.
It does change as you gothrough the series, but their
motivation should always be veryclear, in my view, and it's
quite handy if there's anunresolved issue that you can
come back to in the book.
So this could be somethingabout their past.
We might say a bit more aboutthat later.
(09:11):
Or I have a thing which in mybooks, where Jo has kind of an
off on relationship with herboss, her private investigator
boss who runs a PI agency, macy.
So they have, you know,sometimes they love each other,
sometimes they hate each other,sometimes they hate each other
and sometimes they fall out, andbut there's always a kind of a
(09:32):
bond between them and that givesyou something you can go back
to with each book, becausereaders, they kind of want to
know what's going to happen tothis issue.
It doesn't have to be arelationship, but something
that's kind of unresolved inbook one and does not get
resolved fully.
You know, in each book it kindof is an ongoing thing.
(09:54):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Makes lots of sense.
Thank you, that's a really goodanswer, thank you.
And again, I'm curious becauseone of the things about and
you've touched on this how canwriter strike a balance between
developing a series character'sstrengths and vulnerabilities to
create a well-rounded andrelatable persona?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, that's a good one, I think each.
I mean, obviously, even ifyou're writing a standalone book
, your characters have to bewell-rounded, so they have to
have flaws.
They can't be perfect None ofus are perfect but they can't be
all bad either.
They have to be, like you say,wendy, relatable, don't they?
With a series, actually, it'seven more important, really,
(10:39):
because you're living with thatcharacter.
You know you, as an author, areliving with that character for
years, possibly.
Think of Agatha Christie andGuaro.
She got fed up with him, didn'tshe?
Not that I'm putting myself onthe same level as Agatha Not by
any means.
But you know you have to livewith your characters, so you
have to.
Really.
They have to be well-rounded,if only for the author's point
(11:01):
of view, but also from thereader's point of view.
They really have to live inyour head.
So I thought about this and Ithink the way that I see it is
you have to know your charactersas well as you know your best
friend.
If you think of a couple offriends or maybe family members
that you know really well, youknow they've got strengths.
(11:23):
That's why you love them, butthey also have things that will
drive you around the bend.
Maybe they're always latewhenever you meet them or
they're a bit challenging to you.
On the other hand, you realiseyou welcome that challenge.
So think about your charactersas your best friends and also
(11:45):
the way they go about life willbe different from how you would
go about life.
Your characters need to bedistinct from one another.
So, to use an example, as I sayfrom my series Jo, if she's
suspicious about something, shewill tackle that suspect with
(12:07):
direct questions.
She's good at questions andsort of rational logic.
So that's just the way she.
That's the way she rolls.
So she will ask lots ofquestions and then she will
apply logic and reason to it.
She'll be very analytical inher approach, whereas Macy,
who's a boss, is also a privateinvestigator and often has his
(12:27):
own cases, sometimes the same asJo, sometimes different.
He's much less direct.
He would never go straight infor direct questioning.
He more likely would have amore kind of do his background
work.
He'd research.
He may even get someone else todo the job for him.
Quite a different approach.
So it's thinking about that,thinking about your characters
(12:49):
how might they tackle thingsdifferently and also thinking
about them as your friends.
That's my suggestion.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
That's a good one, thinking of them as your friends
.
I like that, and you have to beable to live with them for that
amount of time, you know ifthey start to annoy you and
you've got problems.
Yeah, and serious charactershave to evolve and grow
throughout the books or, likemost of us, learn things as we
go through life.
What are some effectivetechniques for ensuring
(13:19):
consistent character developmentwhile staying true to their
core traits?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, I think it takes a while.
The first thing to say is youdon't have to know your
character fully when you startwriting about them.
It's good to have a series arcWe'll all be familiar with that
as writers and a sort of overallplan for the development of
your character.
But let's not pretend that allseries writers start out.
(13:48):
We have a series that we watchand, you know, are familiar with
ourselves.
I bet those writers didn't setout with that arc clearly
defined from day one.
Yes, it's good to have it andto know where your characters
are going.
But it's okay to uncover it.
(14:09):
Like I was saying about theonion earlier, your character
does need to have enough depththat there is an onion there and
it's not just a radish, youknow.
So she does have to have enoughdepth to start with, but it's
okay, you don't need to know itall.
It's quite nice if you can peeloff a layer for yourself just
(14:32):
slightly ahead of where thereader is, so you kind of know
where they're going.
You don't have to have thewhole thing carefully planned.
I think it takes time torecognize their portrays.
I do think it's important thatthey do have portrays, but you
know.
So, for example with Joe.
She's not a superwoman.
That is one of the things thatis clear right from book one.
(14:55):
When she's desperate for money,she's living in a flat, she's
not making astrology work, butshe doesn't want to give it up.
She's desperate for money.
That's why she starts being aPI.
This makes her very grounded.
She always has that on her mindwhenever she's doing anything,
and that is, in a way, it's aportray to motivate her, isn't
it Like we were talking earlier?
(15:16):
And she knows she's notsuperwoman, so she doesn't try
and take on things that shereally can't do.
She knows she's not the police,for example, so she knows where
her kind of limitations are.
So you need to sort ofrecognize those kind of traits.
And I go back to the best friendmetaphor.
You might find out things abouteven your bestest bestest
(15:39):
friends the more you know them.
Well, hopefully you will.
You know they will grow.
You will grow and they may tellyou things that they didn't
originally tell.
You See, your characters in thesame way Doesn't mean that you
have to know everything aboutthem right from day one.
You have to believe in them.
They have to have layers Thinkof the onion but you don't have
(16:00):
to know everything.
But I do agree with you whenthe inferred in the question is
implied in the question.
They have to have some coretraits which are instantly
recognizable to you, to thereader, and you have to kind of
stick with those.
So you can change some things,you can add layers, but the core
of the onion kind of stays thesame.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, I love that answer because it really lays
out, and I love the analogy ofthe onion and the fact that you
want to have an onion in aradish.
I'm going to remember that forthe rest of time.
Now, that's a brilliant way ofremembering it.
So thank you for that.
I want to move on slightly, butI want to talk about diversity
and representation, because inmodern storytelling, that is
(16:46):
crucial in our characters.
So how can writers createinclusive and authentic series
characters?
But they need to resonate withdiverse audience.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I think this is such an important question, wendy.
I think it's essential.
We tend to think that this is amodern question.
You know, diversity, inclusion,engagement we hear a lot about
it, but actually it was alwaysthe case because books would
have been so dull for years ifthey've not had a diverse range
(17:17):
of characters.
You can't always be writingabout people like you, or people
, people who look like you orsound like you.
It does sometimes mean I'll behonest here I made a mistake
with this in one of the books Igave my.
You know, I have, like a lot ofpeople have a beta reader, don't
(17:38):
?
I'm sure you do.
I have someone who reads thebooks there's actually a friend
of mine, but she gives me verygood feedback and in one of the
books, the Hangman, it's set inthe Cotswolds and I had a real
cast of diverse characters.
I had a Russian, who's still inthe book, I had a Scottish lady
(17:59):
, I had an Asian lady, I had aPolish man.
I had a real, real huge range,much, much bigger than I'm
giving examples of that.
And when Glennis, my friend andbeta reader, read it, she said
Linda, this is Stroud, it is theCotswolds.
You know, you've got like theworld's population and I had to
(18:22):
scale back a little bit becauseI oh yeah, that is a bit
unrealistic.
So that's a mistake that I made, but it came from a good place.
It came from the fact that Idon't just want to be writing
about people who look like meand talk like me.
I think that would make thebook very dull.
So your question really was ahow to question.
(18:43):
It's all very well, that's myaim and you know I told about
time when I kind of got it wrong, went over the top.
Really, it's how do you do it?
Obviously, you have to draw onyou've only got yourself,
haven't you?
So your experience of life.
The more you draw on your ownexperiences, I think that's
helpful for a writer, but alsoto sort of enhance those
(19:06):
experiences by starting to lookout for things that look
different to you, Things likeeccentricity is different styles
, different ways of speaking,different accents, different
backgrounds so you can just usethe experiences you have Put
yourself out there.
You know I'm a great believerin.
(19:27):
Obviously, writing is a fairlysolitary and there's no getting
away from.
There's a lot of time spent atthe laptop indoors doing stuff
on your own, but it's importantthat you engage with the world,
and a wide world as well, andbring that experience into your
books.
Is that the sort of thing thatyou think will help Wendy?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Absolutely yeah, it does help and I like it at the
beginning saying not to bring intoo many different diverse
characters because you're justdoing it for the sake of it.
I mean my books, my detectiveinspector, Shona Mackenzie books
have always had Indian sergeantin the police, a female and the
(20:09):
Chinese one and that'srepresentative of Dundee.
I was brought up because we hadthe Duke Mills, we had
obviously Scottish, we hadIndian Scottish and we had
Chinese Scottish, so that wasrepresentative of Dundee.
Now we're now getting a biggerAfrican population as well, so
(20:32):
I've included a character thatis from African background, but
that's representative of where Iam.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Exactly.
I think that's absolutely key.
Yeah, I did.
I think I did go slightly overthe top in that, but it is the
idea is to try and represent theworld that you're living in as
much as you can and keep itinteresting for people, and
(21:00):
diversity is interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Absolutely.
I mean, if we all thought thesame way, it would be a very
boring book.
Be very boring world and a veryboring book, so you can bring
things in.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
It worked for Jane Austen.
She was famously wrote on apostage stamp, didn't she?
Very small cast of characters,very small world, but let's face
it, she was an absolutelybrilliant writer and she was
writing in the 1840s, when itwas the smaller world.
We live in a vast world now andwe need to show those
(21:34):
connections in our books.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Absolutely.
I mean to be honest with JaneAusten's books.
It would take them days to getfrom another bit of Britain.
So it was a really small castof people just in that one
little area, you know you shoulduse that you should use that.
Yeah, yeah, we can.
I mean, we can fly to Australiain a day now.
So we always look at back story, our characters back story, and
(22:02):
I'm wondering what role doesthat play in shaping their
actions and decisions throughouta series?
I mean, you've got to revealthe back story slowly, I think
as well.
That's my thoughts.
So how do you do that in each?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
book.
Yeah, I've been asked thisbefore and it really is, I think
, one that writers do strugglewith, because quite often a
character has had some likeharrowing event in their past.
You know, maybe they've lost aloved one and something that
really truly defines them.
This is a little bit like wewere talking about with portrays
(22:36):
.
Obviously, with portrays youmight be born with, but they
might also be things that you'velearned because of experiences,
and if that is a key experiencefor the character, then you do
kind of have to get that inthere somewhere.
And you can look at lots ofwriters who do this well, like
piece James, for example, whoseRoy Gray's character has lost
(22:58):
his wife and it's absolutely keyto the plot that this is, you
know, comes out early.
So I think that is just a case.
If it's a single fact like thatthat you have to get in, it's
about being creative about it,and as writers we're good at
that.
But I think my best bit ofadvice on this I've thought
(23:19):
about it and I think it's a bitlike again.
Imagine you met your characterat a party, right, and of course
you know the best place to beat parties in the kitchen.
So you're chatting to them.
They're not going to tell youtheir life story there and then,
but they'll just tell you alittle bit about enough to get
(23:42):
you interested, enough to makeyou think, oh, I like this
person.
You know she's an astrologer,that's weird, what's that,
what's that about?
And then you might, she mightreveal, oh, actually she's a
private investigator.
And so, okay, later on in yourlife you might be thinking, you
know, you might have a problemwith I don't know someone who's
(24:02):
texting you and you can't getrid of them and you think it's
some person and you might thinkabout that private investigator
you met at the party and go backto them.
Here you've got the beginningsof a story you can tell because
you've remembered.
Oh, they told me they were aprivate investigator, and then
you might hear more about thisperson.
That, to me, is the way to kindof work the backstory into
(24:27):
imagining you're meeting yourcharacters.
What are they going to tell youin the first chapter?
What are they going to tell youin the second?
They're not going to revealeverything straight away, so
it's sort of bit by bit andalways moving forward, so you
get the news about the character, the background on the
character, as the story develops.
It's not always possible to doit that way.
(24:49):
You do have to be a bit of ablunt instrument with it and
kind of say, oh, you know, andthere was this significant
incident in the person's past.
But that I think revealinglayer by layer again.
Maybe going back to the onion abit, that helps me in thinking
(25:11):
about it.
I quite like the party metaphor.
You don't find everything outabout everybody straight away.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Excellent, that's a great answer.
You're right, you need to dripfeed it and nobody tells you
their entire life story thefirst time you meet them.
So using it like that is areally good way of doing it.
You're touched on, you knowthey might have harrowing
backstories, but conflict andpersonal struggles they can
deepen a character's journey.
So how can authors introducemeaningful challenges for their
(25:40):
series characters that enhancethe overall storytelling?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, well, again, these kind of challenges, these
kind of do have to be built intoyour kind of overall plan.
So, while I said it, it's notessential to have a series of
with this kind of thing.
It definitely helps a lot.
So, what is?
Where do you want yourcharacter to be going?
(26:06):
What do you want her or him tobe learning along the way?
And then you create thechallenges that is going to
create that development.
So, for example, one of Joe'skind of struggles, if you like,
is to be independent.
She definitely wants to be anindependent woman.
She wants to live her own life.
She doesn't want to live thelife of her parents who set out
(26:27):
for her, and she wants to be, asI say, an astrologer, which is
not the easiest career, and shewants to be self-employed.
So all this requires money andindependence, and a lot of the
story is around the sort ofunderlying development, is
around her building and creatingthat independence, including
her off on struggles with her,with her boss, you know.
(26:49):
Does she love him, does she not?
Does she love him?
Does she hate him?
Some of that is about her beingreally quite an independent
woman and disagreeing quite alot and being quite challenging.
So that's a clear development.
I'm not saying I had all thatplanned right from the start,
(27:09):
but I sowed the seeds of that inthe first book and then just
gradually kind of nurture thatas it goes through.
I know, kat, I know authors arefond of saying that you kind of
characters surprise you andit's a nice thing.
When that does happen, you getan element of that.
(27:29):
And I don't want to take awaythe mystique of that, because
when it does happen, most of uswriters will have experienced it
.
It is really nice when acharacter surprises you, but I
don't think they should surpriseyou too much.
For example, joe sometimessurprises me with their actions.
So I'll be a part of the bookand I'll be thinking we've
(27:52):
probably all got this in somebooks.
You think not much, as you know,where am I going with this?
What's going to happen next?
And Joe will suddenly get upand go out and kind of attack
the world.
Is it where?
Right, I'm not going to sithere and let the world come to
me.
I'm going to go out and asksome questions, I'm going to
interview a suspect, I'm goingto go to the house where it
(28:14):
happened or wherever it might be, and that moves the action on.
I can't you know.
That is a nice kind of asurprise.
You do not want your charactersto be surprising you at deep,
fundamental levels.
These things, I think, have tocome from you.
You have to be driving thecharacter.
That's just my view.
(28:34):
I know that it's.
Some people get reallypleasantly surprised when their
character does like a 360 turnon them, but I like to be a bit
more in control of mine.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Excellent.
Well, my character doesn't do360 turns.
She does surprise me.
However, I have to say.
This character has just stolento the book without a buyer
leaving there, and I'm like howdid that happen?
I never invited you in andthey're there and they won't
leave.
You know, like, just get out ofmy book.
You know, and one of my maincharacters did that.
(29:04):
In fact it was.
There's two main characters inthe Cascaley More Investigates
series and just this ex convictdwarf just strolled in and said
I'm your main character.
No, you're not.
And when I am, everyone lovesthem.
Everyone loves them.
Everybody loves a bad boy.
You know, all the women in reallife love them.
(29:25):
All the women in the books lovethem.
I haven't seen them in there hewas.
Why did you come from?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I know it is nice when something like that happens
.
I completely agree, and you geta real delight from that as a
writer and also that slightsense of you're kind of growing
into something that I didn'treally expect.
How did that happen?
Yeah, it's a nice feeling.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
To be honest, if I'd realized that was going to
happen, I would have called itthe Cascan Quill Mysteries
instead, because his name isQuill Cascan Quill Mysteries
instead of the Cascaley MoreInvestigates Mysteries, you know
, but hey, what can you do?
He just came there, he was.
So I'm wondering are there anynotable examples of series,
(30:10):
characters from literature orother media that writers can
study to better understand theart of crafting compelling
ongoing personas?
That's a long sentence.
Where did that come from?
Really, I never practiced thatone before I sent it to you.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Well, I'm really glad you sent it to me because these
are very thoughtful questions.
So they really did, you know,really get me to think and
that's I really enjoyed it.
But this answer is verypersonal.
It's almost like desert islanddiscs really.
So I've chosen three that Ilook at and I really admire,
(30:47):
from different sort of mediaWell, two different media.
So I really like Beck.
Is anyone the Swedish detective?
There are books and plays.
Indeed he's very famous and inSweden, but the best portrayal
of him, I think, is in the BBCFour, channel Four, bbc Four
(31:09):
series on him, which isabsolutely brilliant.
And the reason why I like thatis because it's a set of series
characters, it's a whole team.
This is a great example, by theway, of where you don't have to
reveal the backstory ofeverybody in every episode.
You don't.
(31:29):
You know, in every book They'veall got backstories and there's
a, you know there's a big thinggoing on between his chief
investigator and her juniorwhich is clearly against all the
rules, and you know, that'sobvious to everybody right from
the start.
But even then you don't knowall their history, you don't.
You just, you just sense it.
(31:50):
You can just just like youwould like, I say if you met
these people at a party youthink, oh, there's something
going on there.
You wouldn't know it all.
You don't need to know it allas a reader, in my view, or, in
this case, as a viewer.
So I love Beck.
I think they're well written asbooks and plays and it's great
on that series.
So that's one.
I think those characters havedepth and they carry on from
(32:13):
episode to episode, sometimeshighlighting one of them,
sometimes another, and it's atemplate I will admit that I use
.
I'm currently writing a policeprocedural and that's the team
and I freely admit I have triedto emulate that standard and
whether it'll be as good as thatI doubt, but I'm doing my best.
(32:37):
Second one is also very personal.
So I'm a big fan of LouisePenny, canadian writer,
inspector Gamash.
She does write the books aswell, but the Inspector Gamash
series I really love.
They have a kind of a messageto them where they're a little
bit even go sometimes into a bitkind of magic realism or a bit
(32:59):
surreal.
May not be to everyone's taste,but I think they're absolutely
brilliant.
Again, she has a cast ofcharacters who have difficult,
layered backgrounds.
Again, you don't necessarilyknow all this, you could.
Just she's written.
I mean, there's about I don'tknow 15 in the series.
You can pick up any of them,just like I hope you can with
(33:20):
mine you can.
It's a standalone book, youdon't have to read the others
around it, and I try to aim forthat with mine as well.
They're all standalone but theyall have serious characters
that develop all the way through.
That's kind of she's my sort ofrole model for that.
So really like Louise Penny, Ithink she does that brilliantly.
And then outside of crime, Isaw well, this is done elsewhere
(33:44):
, very well too.
So I would think of some ofyour favorite songas and I
picked out one.
I mean there are many, you knowthey're all foresighted saga.
Or you know there are manybooks were particularly around
families, family sagas, whereyou know characters go on from
generation to generation.
(34:05):
You get that real sense ofcontinuity.
You know these people.
So the best example I've gothere is if you haven't read the
Casalette Chronicles byElizabeth Jane Howard, amazing
series of family growing up.
I think it starts just beforethe Second World War and then
goes right up to the sixties.
Really really good in depthbooks, again, very layered
(34:29):
characters, and although it is avery well-renowned series, I
don't think she planned it allout in a series arc either,
because they do surprisingthings, but they all stay true
to themselves.
So those are my three examplesof series characters and in
finding them I realized how muchI like series and that's
(34:50):
probably why I write a series.
I do enjoy that continuationfrom book to book.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Excellent, excellent examples, I have to say.
So how can authors maintaincontinuity and avoid
inconsistencies in their series,characters and their
personalities, and motivationand arcs as the story progresses
?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Now this comes back to the other bit of writing
which we know really well whenwe haven't talked about.
So it's a good one, and that isto me.
This is about the editing.
So I know I've got a friend whois a writer and she says it's
20% writing, 80% editing.
I absolutely agree, the writingis important, but I do a lot of
(35:34):
editing and this is where thiscomes in.
So we talked about the portraitsearlier, didn't we?
And I'd like to think thatthose are sort of so innate,
like I know Jo, like I know mybest friend, so I can write
about her just as I could writeabout my best friend.
So I'm not gonna probably getthings wrong If she's always
(35:55):
punctual, she's always punctual.
If she asks great questions,she asks great questions.
I'm not gonna get things likethat wrong.
But you might want to stilledit, of course.
You know how much of this doyou want, how little?
When is very important?
When do these things come outabout them?
This is important, like aboutthe backstory and so on.
(36:16):
So a lot of things we've beentalking about you would shine
and polish during the editing.
But sometimes the details arewhere the editing is absolutely
crucial and where I might gowrong.
I'll give you an example here.
While I'm not gonna go wrongabout my character's
personalities and how they feeland kind of how they respond and
(36:41):
they're dynamic with each other, but I do sometimes go wrong on
details.
And so I cannot get in my headthe color of Jo's cat.
She has two cats as we gothrough the series because she
moves house at least once, soone cat stays behind and then
she gets another cat when shemoves to the cotswolds.
I have to remind myself eachtime I write about or think
(37:04):
about these damn cats what colorthey are and because for some
reason that's a detail that doesnot stick in my head or the
details so that and yet that'squite key to this series
character Things like color ofeyes Well, if you're a very
visual person you're not gonnaget that wrong, but they're
(37:25):
things.
Colors of the kind of cars theydrive this is important as well.
And the tight mate model ofcars they drive this sort of
thing is important.
And these are the details thatreally good editing.
So I don't think you're gonnafind mistakes in your core trays
or the way your charactersbehave, but you might find here
(37:47):
that inconsistencies in thedetail around them and obviously
, as readers and we're allreaders we know how important
that is.
So if it's a ginger cat at thestart of the book, it needs to
be a ginger cat throughout thebook.
Note yourself, linda.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Well, there was one example, one very famous writer.
I went to see when they weretalking and they said that I
mean there were on book about 12or 13.
And somebody wrote to them.
A reader wrote to them and saiddo you realize?
Your character had blue eyesfor the first four books and has
now had brown eyes for the restof them.
Yeah, and I didn't care, to behonest, they just left it.
(38:30):
Yeah, yeah, I could see myselfdoing that.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
I could see myself doing that because I'm not
terribly visual.
So things like colors, I dohave to check myself.
I think I might be slightlycolor blind, but it's just not,
it's not seen around the bookbecause your character's eye
color changes.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
To be honest, you could just say thank you for
picking up.
I did it deliberately in thehope that anybody would see it.
I love that.
I'll remember that.
I don't know what that authordid, but that would be my
response.
Well done, yeah, See you nexttime, because you're the first
person to have mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Absolutely.
I'll remember that when someonechallenges the color of the cat
, but I mean the sort of oneword answer which I could have
said really, is editing herereally really good?
Editing, is it the heart of anygood book?
I believe you have to be your,you have to get used to being
your own worst critic andaccepting also feedback from
(39:23):
others with an open heart.
Feedback is just a gift, anabsolute gift.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah, so we're getting towards the end of it
all, so what would be your topthree tips for my listeners to
take away from this episode?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Okay.
So this thing about knowingyour characters as well as you
do your friends, I think isimportant.
So I'm really understandingthat your characters have flaws,
that they are well rounded,that they're 3D characters.
I have done an exercise once,which was quite good, where you
actually visualized yourcharacters so you can kind of
(40:02):
see them and walk around them,notice how they move their heads
, you know how they maybe makegestures.
So that's quite an interestingthing to do.
If you've got a kind of amoment, of kind of meditative
moment, you can actually kind ofvisualize your character
walking towards you.
So it isn't just a case ofknowing them deep down like you
(40:24):
do your best friend, but if theywalk towards you, you would
recognize them as you do yourbest friend with or family
member if that works for youwith all their flaws, all their
history, all their habits.
You just know that.
So that's that's my first one.
Know your characters like youdo your best friends or your
(40:46):
closest family members and tryto love them in the same way
with all their faults.
My second tip about creatinggood series characters is create
a dynamic.
So set up characters who do notalways get on and this is kind
(41:09):
of a bit obvious really, Isuppose but it helps to take the
book.
So, you know, takes takespeople's interest from one book
to another.
So I have a team in the in thecurrent series and in the series
police procedural that I'mwriting.
I quite like a team ofinvestigators and one of Macy's
(41:32):
team that Joe works with.
She really doesn't get on with.
She sees him as a kind ofmiddle aged bigot and they've
got completely different viewson everything.
But he is quite funny and so hedoes make a laugh.
He does get her out of a holeoccasionally as well.
So create an interestingdynamic.
Don't just make them hate eachother although that is also
(41:53):
interesting, you know, and lotsof good authors have done that,
and you know that's.
That's quite good too.
You can have people who's youknow like in a romance classic
romance people start off hatingeach other but then they end up
being very fond of each other orwhatever.
You can have that.
That works, but I like it alittle bit more nuanced.
So you know, Joe and Alan,they're very different and
(42:14):
there's some part of her thatdoes respect him, even though he
irritates her.
He drives her mad and he'sreally different and he has
irritating habits as well whichdrive around the bend.
But she kind of knows that he'sdug her out a few holes, so she
also kind of rates him and theystill get impatient with each
(42:35):
other and that's a creativedynamic.
That's just a very simpledynamic.
Alan isn't even in all thebooks, but just create dynamics
between your characters so theyspark off each other and that's
worth thinking about beforeputting pen to paper.
And then that links into mythird tip, which goes back to
(42:57):
your great question aboutdiversity of characters, and
this is allow your characters tobe very different from you.
Make sure they are verydifferent from you.
This is not as easy as itsounds because fundamentally all
our material has to come fromus.
It's not like a playwrightwhereby you can give your
(43:22):
material to someone else andthey can breathe new life into
those characters.
It must be wonderful to do that.
I have written plays sometimesand seen people do it, and it is
wonderful because they bringsomething different which you
could not bring.
You can only provide the words.
But if it's a book and we'retalking about books here it's
(43:42):
got to come from you, and yetyou must be as many different
versions of yourself as you canget on the page.
So they are all diverse,they're different from each
other.
They have this dynamic.
They may not like each otherand they are also from a diverse
range of backgrounds.
So make your characters asdifferent from you as you
(44:06):
possibly can and give them lotsof creative challenges with each
other.
Those are my three things Knowthem well, create a dynamic and
make them really different.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Excellent, great tips .
Now I know we've been talkingabout your books all the way
through, which has beenbrilliant because it's given us
examples, but can you, verybriefly, is there anything else
you want to tell us about yourbooks?
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Thank you very much.
Okay, so yeah, the series ispublished by Joffy Books and
they're on Amazon.
My name is Linda Mather, soit's M-A-T-H-E-R.
Up in Scotland you probably sayMay there, but my family say
Mather for some reason.
But it really doesn't matter,because you can find me there on
Kindle as Linda Mather.
(44:56):
And there are five books.
So the first one is ForecastMurder, and so if you want, if
you're like a series and youwant to start at the start, you
can start with Jo, where shewakes up and thinks one day I
need some more money.
So that's the first one.
So go right through to bookfive, which was published last
year.
They're all set locally to mein Worcestershire, so Midlands,
(45:19):
birmingham, coventry and theCotswolds, but they do bring in
lots of other locations as well.
I don't know, like you, wendy,I've moved around a third bit.
In fact, we both lived inSouthampton for a while, didn't
we?
We got that in Covent, yeah.
And the latest book which waspublished last year Future
Murder that uses Bournemouth asa location.
So it starts in the Cotswolds,but her mission PI job is in
(45:42):
Bournemouth, so I was able tobring in some of my
recollectioners living downthere.
And then the new book.
If you want to look out forthat, that would be marvelous.
It's called A Perfect House forMurder.
It's set very locally in theCotswolds and it is a real now
that one is written, if you like, on a postage site.
So it's got a small cast ofcharacters and a mysterious
(46:05):
killing amongst a small localcommunity and the question is
that Joe finds herself caughtinto it to help out her friend.
And it's her first actual PIjob on her own without Macy.
So she's kind of set up on herown.
By the time we get to this bookand she's realized she does
actually like she's not justdoing it for the money, that she
(46:28):
actually enjoys applying heranalytical skills to
investigative work.
So it's a new venture for herto and that's Perfect House for
Murder and is out in August.
So hopefully we'll be able toget that quite soon.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Excellent.
Well, I'm hoping it will be outby the time this airs, because
it won't air for a few weeks yet.
So the book will be out.
And my very final questionwhere can my listeners find out
more about you and your books?
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, so I'm Linda Mather on Facebook and on
Twitter.
You can just search for me.
I think it's I, linda Mather onTwitter, instagram it's Linda
Mather, writer, and, of course,on Amazon I have an author's
page and I don't have a websiteactually, although probably
ought to get around to doingthat, but busy, busy writing the
(47:17):
new series, which is a policeprocedural.
So maybe by the time you getthis there might be a website,
but I suspect we might have towait till the end of the year
before I get.
I take my hat off to you, wendy.
Wendy's involved in so manyventures.
The magazine that's just comeout is absolutely brilliant, I
think, a great resource forwriters, so I really ought to,
(47:41):
you know, get a bit.
I take a leaf out of your book,wendy, and try a few more
platforms to get myself outthere.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Hey, thank you, and it's been an absolute pleasure
having you here today.
Thank you so much, linda.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Thank you, it's been absolutely fun.
They were great questions,really thoughtful, thought
provoking questions, and Ireally hope that your listeners
will kind of see that I've justbeen sharing my experience from
the heart really, and keepwriting is my best tip.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
So enjoy the rest of your day.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Thank you, bye.
Bye, enjoy America, thank you,see you soon.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
That brings us to the end of another show.
It was really good to have youon the show with me today.
I'm Wendy H Jones and you canfind me at wendahechjonescom.
You can also find me on Patreon, where you can support me for
as little as $3 a month, whichis less than the price of a tea
or coffee.
You go to wwwpatreoncom.
(48:46):
Forward, slash wendahechjones.
I'm also Wendy H Jones onFacebook, Twitter, Instagram and
Pinterest.
Thank you for joining me todayand I hope you found it both
useful and interesting.
Join me next week when I willhave another cracking guest for
you.
Until then, have a good weekand keep writing, keep reading
(49:09):
and keep learning.
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