August 9, 2023 • 32 mins
Ready to venture into the world of pocket novels? Let's uncover the secrets together with Sue Cook, the acclaimed pocket novelist. Our chat goes beyond the size, length, and style as we understand what it takes to craft a captivating narrative within the constraints of a pocket novel. We reveal why staying slightly under the word count is crucial and how the word count requirement varies between People's Friend and My Weekly. Dive in with us as we discuss the significance of detailed research and meticulous plotting in bringing your story to life.
In the next leg of our conversation, we tackle the essentials of a clear structure and the art of creating impactful dialogue. Master how to inject action within dialogues that keep the readers gripped. Sue shares her journey, the genres she's experimented with, and tips to keep your story focused and irresistible. As we wrap up, we touch upon the avenues of self-publishing and where to find more about Sue and her fascinating books. Don't miss this insightful episode packed with tips, techniques, and a peek into Sue's world of pocket novels.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi and welcome to the Writing and Marketing Show
brought to you by author Wendy HJones.
This show does exactly what itsays on the tin.
It's jam-packed with interviews, advice, hints, tips and news
to help you with the business ofwriting.
It's all wrapped up in onelively podcast.
So it's time to get on with theshow.
(00:23):
Welcome to episode 185 of theWriting and Marketing Show with
author entrepreneur Wendy HJones.
As always, it's a pleasure tohave you join me and I love
doing the show, so welcome.
This week we're going to betalking about writing pocket
novels with author Sue Cook, whois very successful at writing
(00:45):
pocket novels and getting thempublished.
And if you don't know what theyare, stay tuned because you
will find out.
As this is actually the fourthpodcast I have recorded today, I
don't have a lot of news foryou at all, but I have managed
to get some writing done and bythe time you hear this, I will
be in the United States and Iwill be knee-deep in book
(01:08):
signings.
I'm meeting all my Americanfans and I can't wait.
I'm looking forward to it andI'm sure I'll be having a great
time in the sun.
So we will just get on with theinterview today.
But before that, it's apleasure to bring you the show
every week.
I do so willingly and if youwould like to support the time
that I do that takes out of mywriting, then you can do so by
(01:29):
going to patreoncom forward,slash wendeehjones and
supporting me by just for threedollars a month, which is the
price of tea or coffee a month,and I would be very grateful and
it would make me know that youlike the show and you want me to
continue with it.
So patreoncom forward, slashwendeehjones.
(01:49):
So what have my guests today?
Sue Cook.
Sue Cook writes short and longstories for the women's fiction
market.
Her novels include contemporaryhistorical romance sprinkled
with crime, intrigue or suspense.
You'll find her short storiesin the People's Friend in the my
Weekly.
She lives in a damp and windycorner of northwest England with
(02:09):
her husband and five ducks.
She finds writing a marvellousantidote to their urge to do
housework, and I think that's anabsolute brilliant antidote and
a brilliant introduction.
So without further ado, let'sget on with the show and hear
from Sue, and we have Sue withus.
Welcome, sue.
Hi, wendy, nice to be here.
(02:30):
Oh, it's an absolute pleasureto have you here.
I've wanted to have you on forages.
Because you know pocket novelsand quick reads are really
popular at the moment, becauseyou know people's attention
spans are going down, so youknow, I thought it was something
that we needed to cover on thisshow.
Where are you coming to us from?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I'm in the northwest of England in a very rainy bit
of the Pennings.
Oh right Is there somethingthere at the moment again.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
We have Sun and Bonnie Dundee, which is a
miracle Other than I'm seeingmuch of it, because, as you
can't see much of it out of myoffice, anyway, it's a pleasure
to have you, an English woman,and a Scottish woman.
You know, it sounds like a cuefor a joke.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I'm a Welsh woman actually.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
An English woman, a Welsh woman and a Scottish woman
walk into a bar.
I know that's a different one.
We won't go down that route.
Okay let's move swiftly on andtalk about pocket novels.
Thank you, I'm reallyinterested in this, so I think
we'd better start really byexplaining what exactly pocket
novels are and how they differfrom traditional novels in terms
(03:34):
of length and style.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Okay, right.
Well, pocket novels are broughtout by the DC Thompson
publishing house.
They bring them out under thename, the brands of the People's
Friend and my Weekly, and theybring out one every two weeks.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So the developers?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
they're quite small paperback type books that they
actually sell on the magazinestands.
They are technically magazinesbut they're neat enough to fit
in your handbag or your pocketso you can carry them around
with you.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Excellent.
How many pages roughly are theyusually?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I couldn't tell.
Well, let's have a look.
They're a set size, which isone of the issues you've got to
think about when you're writingthem.
181, it says on here that's notthat slim.
Really it's not.
What's more important is theword count because the two
brands have got very differentrequirements.
The People's Friend arecurrently around 37,000.
(04:37):
The guidelines on the websiteare out to date.
They're about to bring some newones out, but they ask for
about 37,000.
But they print them in bigprint so they read.
And the People's sorry, myWeekly want about 50,000.
The problem they've got is it'slike magazines the stories must
fit into a template.
(04:57):
So you haven't really got muchscope to play with that word
count, because if it's over thesize of the template they will
cut bits out.
So you're better really to comein just under and have a blank
page or so at the end ratherthan have somebody you don't
know taking bits out of yournovel.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
If you take bits out of your novel, they might ruin
the story art completely.
That's happened actually.
Oh, it doesn't bear thinkingabout when you've done a story
art perfect and then suddenlypart of your art disappeared.
Oh gosh, oh yeah.
So, as a writer, what are somekey considerations when crafting
(05:37):
a compelling narrative withinthe constraints of a pocket
novel?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Right?
Well, the first thing I mustsay is it's essentially the same
as writing any other novel, inthat you've got to do your
research.
You've got to read some pocketnovels to get a feel of what
they're like and then deliverthat.
So you need to be very carefulabout how you plot it and you
(06:05):
need to be careful about howmuch you put into it, because
you can't have all the subplotsthat you have in an 80-90k novel
, but you still need to have allthose important story elements.
Yeah, but yeah, the style.
Really, as long as you've gotwhat they want in terms of the
(06:28):
characters and you've got anemotional read, for whatever
reason, and it's suitable forthat market and it's a good
story, you're standing a goodchance.
But you have got to be verystrict on your word count and
you have got to think this isthe women's magazine market, so
I can't be too graphic.
I can't have any sick kids, Ican't have cruelty to animals.
(06:50):
I've got to think.
You know, this is a slightlyfluffy pink world that we're
living in.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
We kind of cruelty to animals in any books or you get
letters.
Never kill a cat or a dog, ohno no, no, no, absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
But you know, you have to be very careful.
I was coaching one writer whowas on the new writer scheme,
who was looking to write apocket novel, and her main
character was out for revengeagainst men.
Basically, she'd been jolted byher boyfriend and she was after
(07:27):
a well-known actor who wasabout to do the same, somebody
else and she was going to goafter him and expose him and
revenge.
I said no, no, that's just notgoing to happen.
I'm sorry, that is not a woman,stubborn, rewinds, I forget,
that is too nasty.
And then somebody else who shedidn't like I think it was the
bride who had stolen this guy.
She was going to expose herbecause she was nasty to her dog
(07:48):
and I go no, no, no, no, no,it's like a slasher novel to me
quite frankly, it was a lovelystyle.
it was lovely and bubbly andfrothy.
It was just the tone of theunderlying story and the thing
that was happening which justwould not fit.
So reread reread?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Absolutely, yeah, definitely.
We've already touched on thefact that pocket novels have a
portable and accessible nature,so how can writers use that
format to their advantage whengaining readers?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Well, I find it very useful, actually because I'm one
of these writers that alwayshas to make things longer.
When I finish, because I'mquite sparse with the writing, I
get the story down and I think,oh, it's only about half a book
here, so it's quite good inthat sense, because you don't
(08:42):
have to keep expanding stuff tofill the page.
You can write quite shortchapters which are very engaging
.
You don't have to describeeverything in full detail.
You do actually need to thinkabout, when you're finishing a
chapter, what's the hook to keepthem reading on, because they
(09:04):
might be reading that on the bus.
And they get to the end of thechapter and think, oh, I have to
put it away now, but you wantthem to open it again.
So, it has to be quite snappy,not a complicated read.
It needs to be an easy read.
You need to have engagingcharacters.
You don't need to waffle andcompletely overwrite and just
(09:25):
keep that narrative turning overand turning over and giving
them another page to come backand read the next chapter when
they get home and they're havinga brew.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, that's a good point actually.
Yeah, I mean, we've all got todo that, but it's even more
appropriate in one.
That's going to be becausewe've got it in your pocket and
you're only reading it insnatches.
Then you need to be able to getto the end of a chapter and
then want more.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, absolutely I like it.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, I mean, I would have thought that genres some
genres would work better thanothers.
Are there any genres populargenres that work particularly
well for pocket novels and anyspecific elements that resonate
with readers?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Absolutely.
Again, the guidelines.
I can't say more.
Just read the guidelinesbecause they will tell you
exactly what they want.
Although, as I say, thepeople's friend aren't on the
website at the moment becausethey're redoing them.
It's an emotional read.
It's the characters and theirrelationships are at the heart
of the story and 99 times out of100, that means a romance.
(10:32):
Certainly for my weekly theywill want a romance of some form
in them.
The people's friend, I believeyou can get away with more like
a saga type story.
So it's family based things.
So I've never read one thathasn't got a romance in, but I
think it can be done.
Most of the ones I've read, tobe honest, are contemporary, but
(10:56):
they do do historicals.
I've been back as far as two totimes.
That's certainly for my weekly.
I don't think the people'sfriend likely to go that far
back.
I've been back to Georgiantimes and I know somebody else
who regularly sends themGeorgian romances, their
regencies.
But I think if you're going togo back much further than that,
(11:17):
you're struggling.
There's often an element ofcrime, thrillers or suspense.
I've seen them set in theMidwest sort of cowboy stories.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So the scope is quite broad as long as you've got
that central romance and itreads like an easy women's
magazine read.
But there's certain things theydon't really like.
So they're not going to wantscary ghost stories, they're not
going to want anything graphic,they don't want sci-fi, they
don't want paranormal.
(11:53):
Anything that you wouldn't seein a women's magazine, don't put
in your pocket novel.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Right, okay, good advice Again characters.
You've alluded to thecharacters that you know can be
quite character driven.
So how can writers effectivelydevelop characters within the
women's, the limited work countof a pocket novel?
They've still got to ensuredepth and they've got to be
relatable.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Relatable is the big thing, so you don't need it.
Needs to be somebody that thereader could meet.
So you're not going to wantshakes, you're not going to want
multi billionaire people whorun the world.
There need to be relatablecharacters, but they also need
to be people that they wouldwant to meet and you know,
having their social circlethere's going to be.
(12:42):
They're going to have goodqualities lots of them.
Obviously a flaw Everybody needsto have flaw in your book.
But again, don't make itsomething horrible.
No, don't make that.
They really do kick the dogwhen you're not looking like a
cat.
And because, again, because it'sa short read and it's an easy
(13:05):
read to a certain extent you'relimited in the number of
characters you can get in there.
You've got more scope than amills and boom.
You just want those twocharacters and you know other
people drifting around theperiphery.
The page down again.
But at the same time you don'twant to chop it full of
characters that you're going toneed to flesh out.
You need to concentrate on thetwo main ones and have as much
(13:27):
interaction between them aspossible.
Lots of dialogue.
You want to see how theyinteract and show as much as you
, rather than tell if you can,because that will help deepen
that relationship and it's justa more engaging read.
You want every page to engageyour reader.
(13:49):
You don't want to sit theregiving them the whole life
stories.
You just want these two now,with the occasional snippet from
the past that's relevant towhat's happening now and why
they are or why they aren'tgetting on.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
That makes sense actually.
Yeah, and you haven't got time,with this constrained work
count to go off half cock andgive complicated backstories,
you know, because there's justnot enough words for it, you're
ruining the story.
No, and time constraints can bechallenging in pocket novels.
What tips do you have forwriters to maintain a well-paced
(14:26):
and engaging plot within ashorter format?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Well, probably a lot of the things I've touched on
already is just keep it focused,don't get distracted by the
things that are going on.
So, for example, I've read,I've just finished a crime novel
which is actually fabulousbecause it was set in the local
town by a writer.
It used to be a journalistlocally, so he knows these
places and I know these places.
But there was a murder.
(14:55):
Somebody disappeared, somebodyfamous locally disappeared.
A little girl had been attackedand been taken into care.
They were attacked on Asianpeople and then race riots
erupted.
All in one shot, boo, all inone book.
Now, this wasn't the pocketnovel and they were all linked,
(15:17):
they all came together.
It was.
It was a neo-Nazi groupunderlying it, bringing them all
together.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
All right, you've got a little bit of a pocket novel.
You've got one crime.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
If you're going to do it, yeah, now focus on that.
You've got two people you needto bring together, so have one
problem keeping them apart.
Don't have them jetting allover the world.
Just keep very, very focusedand don't spend lots of time
doing great big descriptionsabout where they are.
Be very sparse about the littlebits that you feed in.
(15:51):
Give us enough to give usflavor of where they are and
what they're doing, what they'rewearing, maybe, but you know we
don't want a Thomas Hardy stylechapter of the beautiful place
that they're living.
So, yeah, be very strict withyourself and I would say you
need to probably need to have avery clear idea in your head of
(16:16):
what structure of your book isgoing to be, because obviously
you don't need to be as rigid assome of these sort of plotting
software out there is.
But you know you need to havesomething major happen around
the 25% mark.
You need to have somethingmajor happen around the 50% mark
and then somewhere about the75% mark, and then you will
(16:38):
resolve it.
So as long as you keep thingssimple, things like those
markers, in your head and havean idea of what needs to happen
in those 25%, you can make ithappen.
Just don't get carried away.
Focus on your characters,developing the relationship and
anything that will move the plotforward within that little
framework, and everything elsehas to go in the right.
(17:00):
You can't do that.
Cut your darlings, cut yourdarlings, precisely Cut your
darlings, cut your darlings, cutyour darlings, that's the one.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, so I'd like to move on to dialogue, if I may,
because, honestly, dialogue is acrucial part of everything we
write, isn't it?
Let's?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
face it Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And what techniques can writers employ to make
dialogue impactful and memorable?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
in the short form, oh , dialogue, yeah Well, you
certainly need lots of dialoguein these books.
They're dialogue heavy becauseyour characters are interacting
all the time.
So that's the first thing ismake sure you've got plenty of
dialogue and avoid longstretches of nobody saying
(17:46):
anything.
So again, another friend ofmine sent a pocket novel in, and
I think the character drawingsomewhere on her own in the car
and I think the first 1500 words, nothing was said.
What?
And the editor said no, no, no,no, no.
She must be able to speak tosomebody.
We can't have 1500 words.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
No, do you speak to, even if it was on a mobile phone
?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Well exactly, I think she has a dog in the car or
something she can talk to thedog.
So you've got to have that inthe forefront, if you mind.
All the time is thesecharacters need to be
interacting, because it's allabout what's happening in their
lives and how they're dealingwith it.
Ah, and then after that youneed to cut everything that's
(18:30):
not necessary, anything that'sjust general chit chat, the sort
of things you'd say during theaverage conversation with
someone about the weather andhow you're feeling and how we
have any joints or planes andstuff.
That's all going to go.
So you need to think.
You need to start by thinkingright.
What is this dialogue meant toachieve?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
What other information will the reader have
at the end of this conversation?
And focus on that and be reallyrigid with yourself Again.
Then each character is notgoing to have whole paragraphs
full of dialogue.
They're going to have a coupleof lines, they're going to be
rapid fire back and forth.
That you need to focus on,right, he said, she said, he
(19:13):
said, she said, and pair it downto absolutely what they need.
I would then actually, ifyou're not, if you're new to
this, I would probably get yourcomputer to read it back to you
to see if it sounds likedialogue.
That works, and because it'seasy to read stuff that doesn't
(19:33):
sound natural, and if it doesn'tsound natural, it's not going
to read natural.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
And the reader is going to be put off with that.
You also need to think abouthow each character will speak,
because we don't really noticeit when we're talking to people
around us, but we've all saythings the same thing and it's
not a different way.
We choose our words differently.
Somebody may take, you know,five minutes describing the
(20:01):
weather.
Somebody else may just give youtwo words and you'll know if
you look at your WhatsApps, yourtext, your emails from people
that you know.
You can almost tell by lookingat it, without looking at the
name, who's written it.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So you need to be very careful about how each
character speaks and make sureyou haven't got three, four
characters with different nameswho all speak the same.
So I like to tell people to gooff and watch something like the
Vicar of Dibley their committeemeetings.
You don't need the name downthe side of the script to know
(20:35):
who's speaking and it's a bit ofa caricature, but you need to
be able to tell really, andpeople react differently to
different situations.
So I always keep that in thatmind.
Is this character saying whatyou think they're going to be
saying, based on what you knowabout them, and are they using
the words that you know a 90year old would you use or a
teenager would use?
So those are the main things.
(20:56):
Keep your dialogue tags to aminimum.
You don't need he said, shesaid, anything like as often as
you think.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
And if you are having a fair bit of dialogue, make
sure you put a little bit ofaction in there, just to make
sure it keeps the readergrounded in the scene so that
they're not forgetting they'reon a train or in a restaurant,
eating or whatever, and it justhelps keep the reality at the
(21:26):
forefront of the reader's mind.
Those would be my main tips.
There are some very good adviceonline.
I was just looking at the Ilove the Jericho Writers website
and they've got a really goodsheet for, yeah, Everything I've
said and more is on there.
So just follow that and thenread it.
(21:47):
Get it read aloud to you.
It's like no, I'm self rubbish.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Mm.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It was good.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah, now, they're really really good tips, and the
Jericho Writers one as well isan excellent tip.
Yeah, you'll find that pocketnovels are serialized.
I mean, if you found that, andif so, what are the benefits and
challenges of serializing astory?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Well, I wouldn't.
To be honest, I'll disagreewith you there.
You do get pocket novels thatsometimes come out as two-parts.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
And if in fact, the pocket sorry, the people's
friend described their pocketnovels as their serials all in
one book, mm-hmm.
So most of the books theypublish, they actually want a
one standalone book with nocharacters that you've used
before Though they will,particularly with established
(22:38):
writers they will accept a storythat goes over two books.
Just don't forget, these arelittle magazines that sit in the
magazine section and at the endof those two weeks they're gone
, yeah, and the next episodecomes in.
So if you missed the firstepisode, you're stuck.
You haven't to get on the phoneto DC Thompson to say can you
(23:00):
send me a copy in the post?
Yeah, not something you'regonna be able to get on Amazon.
So it does happen, but not veryoften.
The other thing is, as I said,they don't like the same
situation with the samecharacters in.
So I've had a cozy crimepublished with them which was
set in a detective agency wheremy female character had worked
(23:25):
away in and got a job and thiswas the first job in a dream job
as a private detective.
She'd always wanted to be aprivate detective.
I couldn't write another one inthat detective agency.
It's just not on Right.
And now obviously I could writethose as an independent author
and publish them myself.
Yeah, but I can't do it for myweekly, which is who published
(23:47):
that one?
What you can sometimes do is ifyou've got a general situation
where other characters mightthen go on and have an
interesting story, you can dothat.
So, for example, one of thewriters I know had a romance set
on board a ship bound forAustralia with convicts on it
(24:11):
Right.
So they ended up in Australiawhere the romance managed to
flourish and it all endedhappily and they settled there.
And then she's written anotherbook which was then set in
Australia with other people whowere in that social setting that
they've met since.
(24:32):
So the characters did kind ofappear but, very, very
peripherally they weren'tgermane really to the main story
.
That's really the only way youcould get rendered.
They're not wanting charactersto keep coming up in successive
books.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Well, that's interesting.
I didn't realise that.
So direct advice, that one.
So, in an era of digitalpublishing and e-books, what
role do pocket novels play in aliterary landscape, and how can
writers make the most of theseformats to reach a broader
audience?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
This is a very good question and, to be honest, it's
a question a lot of pocketnovelists are asking themselves
at the moment.
Yeah, because they're part ofthe magazine market, and the
magazine market is shrinking,right.
Yeah, I think there are stillquite a lot of people who like
them as kind of longer magazinestories or short-read novels.
(25:27):
But the question is then isthat the same group of people
who read books on theire-readers?
And the answer is, to be honest, we're not sure, particularly
if they're older readers.
What you can do, however, isthat, because they're only on
the shelves for two weeks andthen they're gone, you can then
(25:48):
sell that book again veryquickly afterwards, and what
most people do is they'llcontact Albus Croft, who is a
not-for-profit organisation thatprovides stories for
sight-impaired readers.
Oh yeah, they have a linecalled.
I've got to get this right.
I keep trying to call it theLinford Christy line and it's
(26:09):
not.
It's the Linford Romance line.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Send it into them as a romance, and very often they
will take it.
So you'll get a paid anothersmall fee from them and they'll
get it into libraries as a largeprint book, right, but that's
the only rights they take, sothat you can then do with that
book that you've still got therights to whatever you want.
(26:35):
So a lot of authors will thenself-publish as well.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So you can bring them out as Amazon short-reads.
Absolutely as well.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
It's good.
I like it when you knowmulti-purpose things.
Great idea, yeah.
Can you tell us about your ownpocket novels?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So far I've had five published, two with the People's
Friend and three with my Weekly, and they're a complete
hotch-potch.
I'm afraid I get an idea and Iwrite it.
I'm not someone who says Ialways write code of crime set
wherever.
So I've had.
My first one in fact was anadventure set on safari in
(27:18):
Botswana and I even managed toget an armed hijack into that
one.
Wow, my Weekly do like a littlebit of danger and adventure so
you can get away with thingslike that, and there's lots of
them.
Actually get shot.
They get rescued very quickly.
I've had a vet story set inLancashire.
(27:41):
That was a contemporary romance.
There was my private detectivestory but again, that was my
Weekly.
It can be a little bit morebroad with them.
The People's Friend are reallyquite strict in what they'll
take.
But my private detective storywas set in West Yorkshire, very
close to my heart, just over thehill.
And then I've got a murder atthe Abbey.
(28:05):
That was the Tudor one set inat the time of the dissolution
Right and then the Abbey wasclosing down and a cook.
It was a second chance romanceand the cook was a lady who'd
been hiding in around the AbbeyEver since she found out what
(28:25):
happened to the love of her life, who was a, who was way above
her station, and dad separatedthem and sent him into the
clergy.
So, of course, as soon as theabbey is closed down, she said
here I am.
Fortunately, a couple of peoplegot murdered and it all got bit
complicated.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, I really enjoyed writing that when all of
the chrono occurs in that one.
And then, finally, there was aGeorgian romance, actually set
in 1834, which is the time ofWilliam IV.
I didn't know there had been aWilliam IV, to be honest, and
still I started researching thisone and that was a Sort of
(29:03):
inheritance one for the, thepeople's friend.
Yeah, so that's that, my five.
I've got another one in withthe people's friend at the
moment which is an apothecary, afemale apothecary in West York
during the 1790s who wasstruggling to keep going because
her husband's Seld the shop anddisappeared after London with
(29:24):
all the money and there's a newdoctor.
In terms taken, all thebusiness.
It's, yeah, when I enjoyedwriting so.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I don't know, as woman, why are you doing that
for a woman?
Sorry, then, what are you doingto that poor woman?
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Oh, this is it.
You need strong.
You need strong women who willbecome adversity.
Yeah, yeah, then for them tofall.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Enough with yes, Absolutely Well.
They all sound great.
My final question where can mylisteners find out more about
you and your books?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Okay, and I have a blog on Sue cook.
Sue cook writes dotwordpresscom and it's mostly
about writing women's magazinestories.
I don't sell my books on thereor particularly advertise them
on there, but that's where youcan connect with me and
hopefully very soon I should begetting another website and
(30:17):
getting a newsletter going,which I'm sure doesn't use it go
, but it doesn't happen.
So hopefully that will becoming soon and, failing that,
it would be on Amazon.
And no, there's a slightproblem with Amazon on my books
because Sue cook, unfortunately,is not only a very common name.
There is another sue cook who'sslightly more famous, right.
(30:41):
So if you look up sue cookauthor on Amazon, you'll get
pages and pages of books by suecook.
That isn't you yeah, so, andyou're probably best looking for
one of my books, specificallywith sue cook and I'd say either
murder at the Abbey or murderat the bakery, because they're
fairly easy to remember.
(31:02):
Okay, I should pop up.
Yeah, I should have chosen adifferent name Wendy.
It's a bit late now.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I should have done tens of reasons.
I've got a nature in the middleof my name because Wendy Jones
is a very common name.
You know it's a bit like suecook.
So, I slapped H in the middle,which happens to be my middle
initial anyway, so it worked out.
Yeah well, thank you very muchfor joining me.
It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Absolutely.
I've really enjoyed it andthanks for asking you are
welcome anytime.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
And you.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
That brings us to the end of another show.
It was really good to have youon the show with me today.
I'm Wendy H Jones and you canfind me at WendyHjonescom.
You can also find me on Patreon, where you can support me for
as little as three dollars amonth, which is less than the
price of a tear coffee.
(32:00):
You go to wwwWendyHjonescom.
Forward slash, wendyhjones.
I'm also WendyHjones onFacebook, twitter, instagram and
Pinterest.
Thank you for joining me todayand I hope you found it both
useful and interesting.
Join me next week when I willhave another cracking guest for
you.
Until then, have a good weekand Keep writing, keep reading
(32:25):
and keep learning.
Hi and welcome to the Writing and Marketing Show
brought to you by author Wendy HJones.
This show does exactly what itsays on the tin.
It's jam-packed with interviews, advice, hints, tips and news
to help you with the business ofwriting.
It's all wrapped up in onelively podcast.
So it's time to get on with theshow.
(00:23):
Welcome to episode 185 of theWriting and Marketing Show with
author entrepreneur Wendy HJones.
As always, it's a pleasure tohave you join me and I love
doing the show, so welcome.
This week we're going to betalking about writing pocket
novels with author Sue Cook, whois very successful at writing
(00:45):
pocket novels and getting thempublished.
And if you don't know what theyare, stay tuned because you
will find out.
As this is actually the fourthpodcast I have recorded today, I
don't have a lot of news foryou at all, but I have managed
to get some writing done and bythe time you hear this, I will
be in the United States and Iwill be knee-deep in book
(01:08):
signings.
I'm meeting all my Americanfans and I can't wait.
I'm looking forward to it andI'm sure I'll be having a great
time in the sun.
So we will just get on with theinterview today.
But before that, it's apleasure to bring you the show
every week.
I do so willingly and if youwould like to support the time
that I do that takes out of mywriting, then you can do so by
(01:29):
going to patreoncom forward,slash wendeehjones and
supporting me by just for threedollars a month, which is the
price of tea or coffee a month,and I would be very grateful and
it would make me know that youlike the show and you want me to
continue with it.
So patreoncom forward, slashwendeehjones.
(01:49):
So what have my guests today?
Sue Cook.
Sue Cook writes short and longstories for the women's fiction
market.
Her novels include contemporaryhistorical romance sprinkled
with crime, intrigue or suspense.
You'll find her short storiesin the People's Friend in the my
Weekly.
She lives in a damp and windycorner of northwest England with
(02:09):
her husband and five ducks.
She finds writing a marvellousantidote to their urge to do
housework, and I think that's anabsolute brilliant antidote and
a brilliant introduction.
So without further ado, let'sget on with the show and hear
from Sue, and we have Sue withus.
Welcome, sue.
Hi, wendy, nice to be here.
(02:30):
Oh, it's an absolute pleasureto have you here.
I've wanted to have you on forages.
Because you know pocket novelsand quick reads are really
popular at the moment, becauseyou know people's attention
spans are going down, so youknow, I thought it was something
that we needed to cover on thisshow.
Where are you coming to us from?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I'm in the northwest of England in a very rainy bit
of the Pennings.
Oh right Is there somethingthere at the moment again.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
We have Sun and Bonnie Dundee, which is a
miracle Other than I'm seeingmuch of it, because, as you
can't see much of it out of myoffice, anyway, it's a pleasure
to have you, an English woman,and a Scottish woman.
You know, it sounds like a cuefor a joke.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I'm a Welsh woman actually.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
An English woman, a Welsh woman and a Scottish woman
walk into a bar.
I know that's a different one.
We won't go down that route.
Okay let's move swiftly on andtalk about pocket novels.
Thank you, I'm reallyinterested in this, so I think
we'd better start really byexplaining what exactly pocket
novels are and how they differfrom traditional novels in terms
(03:34):
of length and style.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Okay, right.
Well, pocket novels are broughtout by the DC Thompson
publishing house.
They bring them out under thename, the brands of the People's
Friend and my Weekly, and theybring out one every two weeks.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So the developers?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
they're quite small paperback type books that they
actually sell on the magazinestands.
They are technically magazinesbut they're neat enough to fit
in your handbag or your pocketso you can carry them around
with you.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Excellent.
How many pages roughly are theyusually?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I couldn't tell.
Well, let's have a look.
They're a set size, which isone of the issues you've got to
think about when you're writingthem.
181, it says on here that's notthat slim.
Really it's not.
What's more important is theword count because the two
brands have got very differentrequirements.
The People's Friend arecurrently around 37,000.
(04:37):
The guidelines on the websiteare out to date.
They're about to bring some newones out, but they ask for
about 37,000.
But they print them in bigprint so they read.
And the People's sorry, myWeekly want about 50,000.
The problem they've got is it'slike magazines the stories must
fit into a template.
(04:57):
So you haven't really got muchscope to play with that word
count, because if it's over thesize of the template they will
cut bits out.
So you're better really to comein just under and have a blank
page or so at the end ratherthan have somebody you don't
know taking bits out of yournovel.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
If you take bits out of your novel, they might ruin
the story art completely.
That's happened actually.
Oh, it doesn't bear thinkingabout when you've done a story
art perfect and then suddenlypart of your art disappeared.
Oh gosh, oh yeah.
So, as a writer, what are somekey considerations when crafting
(05:37):
a compelling narrative withinthe constraints of a pocket
novel?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Right?
Well, the first thing I mustsay is it's essentially the same
as writing any other novel, inthat you've got to do your
research.
You've got to read some pocketnovels to get a feel of what
they're like and then deliverthat.
So you need to be very carefulabout how you plot it and you
(06:05):
need to be careful about howmuch you put into it, because
you can't have all the subplotsthat you have in an 80-90k novel
, but you still need to have allthose important story elements.
Yeah, but yeah, the style.
Really, as long as you've gotwhat they want in terms of the
(06:28):
characters and you've got anemotional read, for whatever
reason, and it's suitable forthat market and it's a good
story, you're standing a goodchance.
But you have got to be verystrict on your word count and
you have got to think this isthe women's magazine market, so
I can't be too graphic.
I can't have any sick kids, Ican't have cruelty to animals.
(06:50):
I've got to think.
You know, this is a slightlyfluffy pink world that we're
living in.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
We kind of cruelty to animals in any books or you get
letters.
Never kill a cat or a dog, ohno no, no, no, absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
But you know, you have to be very careful.
I was coaching one writer whowas on the new writer scheme,
who was looking to write apocket novel, and her main
character was out for revengeagainst men.
Basically, she'd been jolted byher boyfriend and she was after
(07:27):
a well-known actor who wasabout to do the same, somebody
else and she was going to goafter him and expose him and
revenge.
I said no, no, that's just notgoing to happen.
I'm sorry, that is not a woman,stubborn, rewinds, I forget,
that is too nasty.
And then somebody else who shedidn't like I think it was the
bride who had stolen this guy.
She was going to expose herbecause she was nasty to her dog
(07:48):
and I go no, no, no, no, no,it's like a slasher novel to me
quite frankly, it was a lovelystyle.
it was lovely and bubbly andfrothy.
It was just the tone of theunderlying story and the thing
that was happening which justwould not fit.
So reread reread?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Absolutely, yeah, definitely.
We've already touched on thefact that pocket novels have a
portable and accessible nature,so how can writers use that
format to their advantage whengaining readers?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Well, I find it very useful, actually because I'm one
of these writers that alwayshas to make things longer.
When I finish, because I'mquite sparse with the writing, I
get the story down and I think,oh, it's only about half a book
here, so it's quite good inthat sense, because you don't
(08:42):
have to keep expanding stuff tofill the page.
You can write quite shortchapters which are very engaging
.
You don't have to describeeverything in full detail.
You do actually need to thinkabout, when you're finishing a
chapter, what's the hook to keepthem reading on, because they
(09:04):
might be reading that on the bus.
And they get to the end of thechapter and think, oh, I have to
put it away now, but you wantthem to open it again.
So, it has to be quite snappy,not a complicated read.
It needs to be an easy read.
You need to have engagingcharacters.
You don't need to waffle andcompletely overwrite and just
(09:25):
keep that narrative turning overand turning over and giving
them another page to come backand read the next chapter when
they get home and they're havinga brew.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, that's a good point actually.
Yeah, I mean, we've all got todo that, but it's even more
appropriate in one.
That's going to be becausewe've got it in your pocket and
you're only reading it insnatches.
Then you need to be able to getto the end of a chapter and
then want more.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, absolutely I like it.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, I mean, I would have thought that genres some
genres would work better thanothers.
Are there any genres populargenres that work particularly
well for pocket novels and anyspecific elements that resonate
with readers?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Absolutely.
Again, the guidelines.
I can't say more.
Just read the guidelinesbecause they will tell you
exactly what they want.
Although, as I say, thepeople's friend aren't on the
website at the moment becausethey're redoing them.
It's an emotional read.
It's the characters and theirrelationships are at the heart
of the story and 99 times out of100, that means a romance.
(10:32):
Certainly for my weekly theywill want a romance of some form
in them.
The people's friend, I believeyou can get away with more like
a saga type story.
So it's family based things.
So I've never read one thathasn't got a romance in, but I
think it can be done.
Most of the ones I've read, tobe honest, are contemporary, but
(10:56):
they do do historicals.
I've been back as far as two totimes.
That's certainly for my weekly.
I don't think the people'sfriend likely to go that far
back.
I've been back to Georgiantimes and I know somebody else
who regularly sends themGeorgian romances, their
regencies.
But I think if you're going togo back much further than that,
(11:17):
you're struggling.
There's often an element ofcrime, thrillers or suspense.
I've seen them set in theMidwest sort of cowboy stories.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So the scope is quite broad as long as you've got
that central romance and itreads like an easy women's
magazine read.
But there's certain things theydon't really like.
So they're not going to wantscary ghost stories, they're not
going to want anything graphic,they don't want sci-fi, they
don't want paranormal.
(11:53):
Anything that you wouldn't seein a women's magazine, don't put
in your pocket novel.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Right, okay, good advice Again characters.
You've alluded to thecharacters that you know can be
quite character driven.
So how can writers effectivelydevelop characters within the
women's, the limited work countof a pocket novel?
They've still got to ensuredepth and they've got to be
relatable.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Relatable is the big thing, so you don't need it.
Needs to be somebody that thereader could meet.
So you're not going to wantshakes, you're not going to want
multi billionaire people whorun the world.
There need to be relatablecharacters, but they also need
to be people that they wouldwant to meet and you know,
having their social circlethere's going to be.
(12:42):
They're going to have goodqualities lots of them.
Obviously a flaw Everybody needsto have flaw in your book.
But again, don't make itsomething horrible.
No, don't make that.
They really do kick the dogwhen you're not looking like a
cat.
And because, again, because it'sa short read and it's an easy
(13:05):
read to a certain extent you'relimited in the number of
characters you can get in there.
You've got more scope than amills and boom.
You just want those twocharacters and you know other
people drifting around theperiphery.
The page down again.
But at the same time you don'twant to chop it full of
characters that you're going toneed to flesh out.
You need to concentrate on thetwo main ones and have as much
(13:27):
interaction between them aspossible.
Lots of dialogue.
You want to see how theyinteract and show as much as you
, rather than tell if you can,because that will help deepen
that relationship and it's justa more engaging read.
You want every page to engageyour reader.
(13:49):
You don't want to sit theregiving them the whole life
stories.
You just want these two now,with the occasional snippet from
the past that's relevant towhat's happening now and why
they are or why they aren'tgetting on.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
That makes sense actually.
Yeah, and you haven't got time,with this constrained work
count to go off half cock andgive complicated backstories,
you know, because there's justnot enough words for it, you're
ruining the story.
No, and time constraints can bechallenging in pocket novels.
What tips do you have forwriters to maintain a well-paced
(14:26):
and engaging plot within ashorter format?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Well, probably a lot of the things I've touched on
already is just keep it focused,don't get distracted by the
things that are going on.
So, for example, I've read,I've just finished a crime novel
which is actually fabulousbecause it was set in the local
town by a writer.
It used to be a journalistlocally, so he knows these
places and I know these places.
But there was a murder.
(14:55):
Somebody disappeared, somebodyfamous locally disappeared.
A little girl had been attackedand been taken into care.
They were attacked on Asianpeople and then race riots
erupted.
All in one shot, boo, all inone book.
Now, this wasn't the pocketnovel and they were all linked,
(15:17):
they all came together.
It was.
It was a neo-Nazi groupunderlying it, bringing them all
together.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
All right, you've got a little bit of a pocket novel.
You've got one crime.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
If you're going to do it, yeah, now focus on that.
You've got two people you needto bring together, so have one
problem keeping them apart.
Don't have them jetting allover the world.
Just keep very, very focusedand don't spend lots of time
doing great big descriptionsabout where they are.
Be very sparse about the littlebits that you feed in.
(15:51):
Give us enough to give usflavor of where they are and
what they're doing, what they'rewearing, maybe, but you know we
don't want a Thomas Hardy stylechapter of the beautiful place
that they're living.
So, yeah, be very strict withyourself and I would say you
need to probably need to have avery clear idea in your head of
(16:16):
what structure of your book isgoing to be, because obviously
you don't need to be as rigid assome of these sort of plotting
software out there is.
But you know you need to havesomething major happen around
the 25% mark.
You need to have somethingmajor happen around the 50% mark
and then somewhere about the75% mark, and then you will
(16:38):
resolve it.
So as long as you keep thingssimple, things like those
markers, in your head and havean idea of what needs to happen
in those 25%, you can make ithappen.
Just don't get carried away.
Focus on your characters,developing the relationship and
anything that will move the plotforward within that little
framework, and everything elsehas to go in the right.
(17:00):
You can't do that.
Cut your darlings, cut yourdarlings, precisely Cut your
darlings, cut your darlings, cutyour darlings, that's the one.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, so I'd like to move on to dialogue, if I may,
because, honestly, dialogue is acrucial part of everything we
write, isn't it?
Let's?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
face it Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And what techniques can writers employ to make
dialogue impactful and memorable?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
in the short form, oh , dialogue, yeah Well, you
certainly need lots of dialoguein these books.
They're dialogue heavy becauseyour characters are interacting
all the time.
So that's the first thing ismake sure you've got plenty of
dialogue and avoid longstretches of nobody saying
(17:46):
anything.
So again, another friend ofmine sent a pocket novel in, and
I think the character drawingsomewhere on her own in the car
and I think the first 1500 words, nothing was said.
What?
And the editor said no, no, no,no, no.
She must be able to speak tosomebody.
We can't have 1500 words.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
No, do you speak to, even if it was on a mobile phone
?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Well exactly, I think she has a dog in the car or
something she can talk to thedog.
So you've got to have that inthe forefront, if you mind.
All the time is thesecharacters need to be
interacting, because it's allabout what's happening in their
lives and how they're dealingwith it.
Ah, and then after that youneed to cut everything that's
(18:30):
not necessary, anything that'sjust general chit chat, the sort
of things you'd say during theaverage conversation with
someone about the weather andhow you're feeling and how we
have any joints or planes andstuff.
That's all going to go.
So you need to think.
You need to start by thinkingright.
What is this dialogue meant toachieve?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
What other information will the reader have
at the end of this conversation?
And focus on that and be reallyrigid with yourself Again.
Then each character is notgoing to have whole paragraphs
full of dialogue.
They're going to have a coupleof lines, they're going to be
rapid fire back and forth.
That you need to focus on,right, he said, she said, he
(19:13):
said, she said, and pair it downto absolutely what they need.
I would then actually, ifyou're not, if you're new to
this, I would probably get yourcomputer to read it back to you
to see if it sounds likedialogue.
That works, and because it'seasy to read stuff that doesn't
(19:33):
sound natural, and if it doesn'tsound natural, it's not going
to read natural.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
And the reader is going to be put off with that.
You also need to think abouthow each character will speak,
because we don't really noticeit when we're talking to people
around us, but we've all saythings the same thing and it's
not a different way.
We choose our words differently.
Somebody may take, you know,five minutes describing the
(20:01):
weather.
Somebody else may just give youtwo words and you'll know if
you look at your WhatsApps, yourtext, your emails from people
that you know.
You can almost tell by lookingat it, without looking at the
name, who's written it.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So you need to be very careful about how each
character speaks and make sureyou haven't got three, four
characters with different nameswho all speak the same.
So I like to tell people to gooff and watch something like the
Vicar of Dibley their committeemeetings.
You don't need the name downthe side of the script to know
(20:35):
who's speaking and it's a bit ofa caricature, but you need to
be able to tell really, andpeople react differently to
different situations.
So I always keep that in thatmind.
Is this character saying whatyou think they're going to be
saying, based on what you knowabout them, and are they using
the words that you know a 90year old would you use or a
teenager would use?
So those are the main things.
(20:56):
Keep your dialogue tags to aminimum.
You don't need he said, shesaid, anything like as often as
you think.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
And if you are having a fair bit of dialogue, make
sure you put a little bit ofaction in there, just to make
sure it keeps the readergrounded in the scene so that
they're not forgetting they'reon a train or in a restaurant,
eating or whatever, and it justhelps keep the reality at the
(21:26):
forefront of the reader's mind.
Those would be my main tips.
There are some very good adviceonline.
I was just looking at the Ilove the Jericho Writers website
and they've got a really goodsheet for, yeah, Everything I've
said and more is on there.
So just follow that and thenread it.
(21:47):
Get it read aloud to you.
It's like no, I'm self rubbish.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Mm.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It was good.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah, now, they're really really good tips, and the
Jericho Writers one as well isan excellent tip.
Yeah, you'll find that pocketnovels are serialized.
I mean, if you found that, andif so, what are the benefits and
challenges of serializing astory?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Well, I wouldn't.
To be honest, I'll disagreewith you there.
You do get pocket novels thatsometimes come out as two-parts.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
And if in fact, the pocket sorry, the people's
friend described their pocketnovels as their serials all in
one book, mm-hmm.
So most of the books theypublish, they actually want a
one standalone book with nocharacters that you've used
before Though they will,particularly with established
(22:38):
writers they will accept a storythat goes over two books.
Just don't forget, these arelittle magazines that sit in the
magazine section and at the endof those two weeks they're gone
, yeah, and the next episodecomes in.
So if you missed the firstepisode, you're stuck.
You haven't to get on the phoneto DC Thompson to say can you
(23:00):
send me a copy in the post?
Yeah, not something you'regonna be able to get on Amazon.
So it does happen, but not veryoften.
The other thing is, as I said,they don't like the same
situation with the samecharacters in.
So I've had a cozy crimepublished with them which was
set in a detective agency wheremy female character had worked
(23:25):
away in and got a job and thiswas the first job in a dream job
as a private detective.
She'd always wanted to be aprivate detective.
I couldn't write another one inthat detective agency.
It's just not on Right.
And now obviously I could writethose as an independent author
and publish them myself.
Yeah, but I can't do it for myweekly, which is who published
(23:47):
that one?
What you can sometimes do is ifyou've got a general situation
where other characters mightthen go on and have an
interesting story, you can dothat.
So, for example, one of thewriters I know had a romance set
on board a ship bound forAustralia with convicts on it
(24:11):
Right.
So they ended up in Australiawhere the romance managed to
flourish and it all endedhappily and they settled there.
And then she's written anotherbook which was then set in
Australia with other people whowere in that social setting that
they've met since.
(24:32):
So the characters did kind ofappear but, very, very
peripherally they weren'tgermane really to the main story
.
That's really the only way youcould get rendered.
They're not wanting charactersto keep coming up in successive
books.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Well, that's interesting.
I didn't realise that.
So direct advice, that one.
So, in an era of digitalpublishing and e-books, what
role do pocket novels play in aliterary landscape, and how can
writers make the most of theseformats to reach a broader
audience?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
This is a very good question and, to be honest, it's
a question a lot of pocketnovelists are asking themselves
at the moment.
Yeah, because they're part ofthe magazine market, and the
magazine market is shrinking,right.
Yeah, I think there are stillquite a lot of people who like
them as kind of longer magazinestories or short-read novels.
(25:27):
But the question is then isthat the same group of people
who read books on theire-readers?
And the answer is, to be honest, we're not sure, particularly
if they're older readers.
What you can do, however, isthat, because they're only on
the shelves for two weeks andthen they're gone, you can then
(25:48):
sell that book again veryquickly afterwards, and what
most people do is they'llcontact Albus Croft, who is a
not-for-profit organisation thatprovides stories for
sight-impaired readers.
Oh yeah, they have a linecalled.
I've got to get this right.
I keep trying to call it theLinford Christy line and it's
(26:09):
not.
It's the Linford Romance line.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Send it into them as a romance, and very often they
will take it.
So you'll get a paid anothersmall fee from them and they'll
get it into libraries as a largeprint book, right, but that's
the only rights they take, sothat you can then do with that
book that you've still got therights to whatever you want.
(26:35):
So a lot of authors will thenself-publish as well.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So you can bring them out as Amazon short-reads.
Absolutely as well.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
It's good.
I like it when you knowmulti-purpose things.
Great idea, yeah.
Can you tell us about your ownpocket novels?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So far I've had five published, two with the People's
Friend and three with my Weekly, and they're a complete
hotch-potch.
I'm afraid I get an idea and Iwrite it.
I'm not someone who says Ialways write code of crime set
wherever.
So I've had.
My first one in fact was anadventure set on safari in
(27:18):
Botswana and I even managed toget an armed hijack into that
one.
Wow, my Weekly do like a littlebit of danger and adventure so
you can get away with thingslike that, and there's lots of
them.
Actually get shot.
They get rescued very quickly.
I've had a vet story set inLancashire.
(27:41):
That was a contemporary romance.
There was my private detectivestory but again, that was my
Weekly.
It can be a little bit morebroad with them.
The People's Friend are reallyquite strict in what they'll
take.
But my private detective storywas set in West Yorkshire, very
close to my heart, just over thehill.
And then I've got a murder atthe Abbey.
(28:05):
That was the Tudor one set inat the time of the dissolution
Right and then the Abbey wasclosing down and a cook.
It was a second chance romanceand the cook was a lady who'd
been hiding in around the AbbeyEver since she found out what
(28:25):
happened to the love of her life, who was a, who was way above
her station, and dad separatedthem and sent him into the
clergy.
So, of course, as soon as theabbey is closed down, she said
here I am.
Fortunately, a couple of peoplegot murdered and it all got bit
complicated.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, I really enjoyed writing that when all of
the chrono occurs in that one.
And then, finally, there was aGeorgian romance, actually set
in 1834, which is the time ofWilliam IV.
I didn't know there had been aWilliam IV, to be honest, and
still I started researching thisone and that was a Sort of
(29:03):
inheritance one for the, thepeople's friend.
Yeah, so that's that, my five.
I've got another one in withthe people's friend at the
moment which is an apothecary, afemale apothecary in West York
during the 1790s who wasstruggling to keep going because
her husband's Seld the shop anddisappeared after London with
(29:24):
all the money and there's a newdoctor.
In terms taken, all thebusiness.
It's, yeah, when I enjoyedwriting so.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I don't know, as woman, why are you doing that
for a woman?
Sorry, then, what are you doingto that poor woman?
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Oh, this is it.
You need strong.
You need strong women who willbecome adversity.
Yeah, yeah, then for them tofall.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Enough with yes, Absolutely Well.
They all sound great.
My final question where can mylisteners find out more about
you and your books?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Okay, and I have a blog on Sue cook.
Sue cook writes dotwordpresscom and it's mostly
about writing women's magazinestories.
I don't sell my books on thereor particularly advertise them
on there, but that's where youcan connect with me and
hopefully very soon I should begetting another website and
(30:17):
getting a newsletter going,which I'm sure doesn't use it go
, but it doesn't happen.
So hopefully that will becoming soon and, failing that,
it would be on Amazon.
And no, there's a slightproblem with Amazon on my books
because Sue cook, unfortunately,is not only a very common name.
There is another sue cook who'sslightly more famous, right.
(30:41):
So if you look up sue cookauthor on Amazon, you'll get
pages and pages of books by suecook.
That isn't you yeah, so, andyou're probably best looking for
one of my books, specificallywith sue cook and I'd say either
murder at the Abbey or murderat the bakery, because they're
fairly easy to remember.
(31:02):
Okay, I should pop up.
Yeah, I should have chosen adifferent name Wendy.
It's a bit late now.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I should have done tens of reasons.
I've got a nature in the middleof my name because Wendy Jones
is a very common name.
You know it's a bit like suecook.
So, I slapped H in the middle,which happens to be my middle
initial anyway, so it worked out.
Yeah well, thank you very muchfor joining me.
It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Absolutely.
I've really enjoyed it andthanks for asking you are
welcome anytime.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
And you.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
That brings us to the end of another show.
It was really good to have youon the show with me today.
I'm Wendy H Jones and you canfind me at WendyHjonescom.
You can also find me on Patreon, where you can support me for
as little as three dollars amonth, which is less than the
price of a tear coffee.
(32:00):
You go to wwwWendyHjonescom.
Forward slash, wendyhjones.
I'm also WendyHjones onFacebook, twitter, instagram and
Pinterest.
Thank you for joining me todayand I hope you found it both
useful and interesting.
Join me next week when I willhave another cracking guest for
you.
Until then, have a good weekand Keep writing, keep reading
(32:25):
and keep learning.
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