April 3, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode, Cheri Dotterer shares a replay of a live webinar teaching three powerful math interventions proven to help students—from kindergarten to high school—retain and engage with math concepts more effectively. These strategies bridge the gap between cognitive science and classroom practice. Cheri breaks down the interventions into practical, hands-on activities, including the Locker Problem, the 120-Chart, and Paper Folding (Making Rectangles). She also highlights real-world case studies and the neuroscience behind these interventions, showing how as little as six minutes per week can change math outcomes.
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Products Mentioned
https://disabilitylabs.com/courses/cwsbp
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TIME STAMPS
0:48 – 2:15 How writing struggles connect to math struggles.
2:15 – 3:01 Introduction to Jonily Zupancic and Cheri's learning journey.
3:01 – 4:06 Cheri’s background, books, podcasts, and how writing is more than literacy.
4:06 – 6:56 Early number sense: how toddlers naturally engage with shapes and numbers.
6:56 – 7:57 Breaking the cycle of frustration and introducing today’s three interventions.
7:57 – 10:07 Research data showing how these interventions improved math scores.
10:07 – 11:18 First intervention: Division is Sharing — Introduction.
11:18 – 17:25 The Locker Problem — A math patterning activity to teach division and counting.
17:25 – 20:06 Second intervention: Subtraction is Distance — Using the 120-Chart to build number sense.
20:06 – 25:10 Third intervention: Multiplication is Rectangles — Teaching multiplication and fractions using paper folding.
25:10 – 26:57 AHA moments and reflection from webinar participants.
26:57 – 27:46 Why these interventions work and why you should try them.
27:46 – 30:12 Course bundle details and how to apply these interventions K-12.
30:12 – 33:21 Practicum, bonus offers, and course bundle available for listeners.
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BOOKS
Handwriting Brain Body DISconnect Digital Version: https://disabilitylabs.com/courses/hwbbd
On Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Handwriting-Br...
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SUBSCRIBE and LISTEN to the Audio version of the podcast here on YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
APPLE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-writing-glitch/id1641728130?uo=4
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Hey everybody. Cheri Dotterer, here, your host here
at the writing glitch, the lastcouple months, I've been running
a webinar, and I thought I wouldshare it with you. So this
episode was pre recorded atanother time, and I wanted to
share the the webinar with you.The at the end, there's going to
(00:21):
be an offer for a course bundlethat I am I have created through
my work with John Eliza panzic,so at the end, you'll see what
I'm talking about, but if youwant to go right down now into
the show notes and click on thatoffer, I will have it ready for
(00:42):
you whenever you want to starttalk to you soon. Thanks. Bye.
Hey everybody. How's it goingtoday? So today, we are going to
talk a little bit about threeinterventions to help folks with
math. Now, how this got startedwas
I had, I was doing an evaluationon a third grader. I am an
(01:05):
Occupational Therapist, and
this third grader was havingtrouble with spelling. My gifted
daughter, who doesn't who wasgetting, like, hundreds on
everything comes in, I can'tspell. I can't spell. I'm like,
What are you talking about? Youcan't spell
here, it was like one word thatwas throwing her 100% off
(01:27):
kilter, and she just couldn'tget over the perfectionism that
she had. But it got me tothinking, because the more I
delved into gifted students, themore I found out that they often
have trouble with writing.
But then I realized that, aftergetting a request from a parent,
that kids also have trouble withmathematics a lot of times, and
(01:53):
there's Splinter skills, likesometimes they're good at it,
sometimes they're not, but thisone kiddo that I had that was
with a learning disability. Hewas trying to do fractions, and
mom had this pie chart, and hehad to figure out what a quarter
of the pie chart was, and justcouldn't do it. Fast forward to
(02:13):
around 2018
I met Jonily zupanzec, whohappens to be on the call at the
moment, and she is a mathteacher, and has a very unique
way of teaching math, and so Ihave been learning from her and
practicing how and learning howto integrate the subject matter
into writing skills, becausewriting is more than just
(02:36):
literacy, It is allcommunication. So being able to
write complex numbers andproblems on piece of paper is
just as much writing as it is tocraft a very detailed letter.
I mentioned I am an OccupationalTherapist. The people that are
(02:58):
on the call at the moment knowwho I am.
I wrote handwriting, brain,body, disconnect. I participated
in an anthology with 15 otherauthors, and I have a chapter in
a textbook on handwriting. Joniand I are writing a book which
we don't have a title for ityet. I just wrote the first
(03:20):
draft of a historical fiction. Iknow it sounds like it's out
there in never, Neverland, but Ineeded to practice my
my own disability of writing andbeing able to write creatively,
versus the handwriting, brain,body tech. Handwriting brain,
body disconnect, which is moreof a technical book I needed to
(03:41):
practice that. I also have twopodcasts, the writing glitch,
and I share one with Jonily tierone interventions. The one on
the left is more about writingskills. The one on the right is
more about math skills, but it'sthey're both about the cognitive
science of learning.
(04:02):
And my courses are on disabilitylabs,
so I have a question for you.Have you ever watched a toddler
play?
They stack, they sort colors,they create. They're very
creative and imaginative, butthe whole time they're doing
that, they see numbers asshapes. They see triangles as
(04:27):
although they getting to knowthem as triangles, they might be
counting them. They might beseeing how they integrate with
other shapes. You've heard thesaying a square peg in a round
hole, and vice versa. It justdoesn't work well. When they're
toddlers, they're trying tofigure that out.
They aren't creating for they'renot solving formulas, they're
(04:50):
not memorizing, they're they'remaybe mimicking, but they're
also being very creative, andthey'll approach things in ways
that we've never imagined.
Uh, numbers as shapes,
recognizing patterns andsticking with it is really the
area that I've been workingwith, and that is, how do we get
(05:14):
kids to see numbers as shapes?How do we get them to recognize
patterns and see that longstanding impact
so that they recall theinformation in weeks to come.
How do the interventions that wecreate align with brain
(05:37):
processes and don't negate
learning? How do we enhance it?
How do we recognize andsynthesize numbers into our
everyday activities? How do wesequence them with our
relationships to patterns andsorting and categorizing.
(06:02):
Do we see them?
Some kids just know them. Somekid makes a lot of mistakes.
Make a lot of mistakes along theway. And how do we take those
mistakes and turn them positive,so that they can see that their
mistakes were a way of thinkingand not
(06:24):
incorrect thought, because theirmistakes are the way their brain
sees their environment.
And last but not least, how dowe get them to solve what we
need them to solve? We usemanipulatives.
We will need to break the cycleof fear and frustration. That's
(06:45):
the first thing we need to do.We need to break that
frustration before we can everbe successful at math or writing
implementation.
We need to shift their mind sothat they can tackle that
challenge, and that sounds like,oh, yeah, that sounds easy, but
yeah, it also sounds like anightmare all at the same time.
(07:12):
How can we get them tocritically think through the
patterns efficiently so thatthey can solve the problem
today? What I'd like to do isI'd like to share three of the
tasks that Jonily has puttogether
to solve problems from K through12th grade.
(07:36):
Now how do I get involved? WhatI have done with her problems is
I've created adaptations. SoI'll explain some of those as we
go through these problems.Today. There is John Lee and I.
So you have a face that goeswith the name.
(07:57):
One of the things is, we don'tmemorize the Pythagorean
theorem. This,
we don't necessarily sit downand memorize pi. We're not
looking at those kind of things,although they are very helpful
to some students. When we addthat sing song to it, that is
not the focus of what we'redoing, but we have discovered
(08:21):
that as little as six minutes aweek we can change kids
outcomes.
Joni participated in a two mathresearch studies. The first one
was with the sixth grade cohort
at the end of their fifth grade,year before they ever had any
(08:42):
intervention,
their proficiency level on theend of state testing was 27%
what
the powers that be in the nationis that we have
The basic the proficient and theadvanced levels. Basically, we
(09:03):
all of the national reports aredivided into those 320. 7% of
these kids landed in theproficient category with that
six minutes a week
of intervention. 60%
the scores at the end of thisyear were 60% proficient,
(09:24):
instead of the 27 and 92% of thekids had growth
in study number two, this had afew more students in it, had 130
students in it
at the end of the year, scoresbefore they had any
(09:45):
intervention, the proficiencylevels were 50 to 65
this was partial implementation,so it wasn't quite six minutes a
week, but over two years. But.
Here again, kids improve theirproficiency levels. So
(10:07):
before I get into the some ofthe math ideas, does that sound
like something that you'd beinterested in learning more
about? Angelica,
yeah,
I know Emily is
our first thing is, division issharing.
(10:33):
Sorry, I thought you were onsilent
and I I didn't turn it on. Donot disturb, because my daughter
just went to the ER. She shouldbe okay,
but I didn't want to turn ittotally off. So forgive me if I
keep looking down at my phone,but I'm just making sure it's
not her division is sharing.
(10:57):
So let's think about this.Suppose we have
two kids, and you need needed toshare an uneven number with each
one of them. How are you goingto do that? How are they going
to divide it? How are the kidsgoing to plan out how that gets
divided?
(11:18):
How about this scenario? We have100 students with 100 lockers.
Tell me about that. Emily, whatdo you think? Tell me what, what
first comes to your mind whenyou think of 100 students and
100 lockers,
she may not be able to Angelica,how about you? What do you think
(11:39):
of when you think of 100students and 100 lockers, one
locker per student,
Okay, anything else that's a lotof lockers. It's a lot of
lockers. I think mayhem.
I just see the mayhem coming.But
for a kiddo who is inkindergarten, who may not have
(12:00):
an older sister or brother. Theconcept of a locker may be they
have no idea where, if you justask kids about lockers, they're
going to come up with all kindsof stories, even before you
start the math. But lockersdon't have to be the object of
this scenario. You could usecards. You could use Roblox, you
(12:23):
could use almost any object tocreate this scenario. It's just
lockers are something thatmiddle school kids know about.
Some ways to help with thelockers is sorting the lockers
behind the sign there are colorcoded so they're grouped in
(12:45):
groups of two.
We could do some sorting if theyweren't attached to the wall,
but kids could sort them byknowing how much
of something that they werelooking for within the lockers.
(13:05):
We also may talk and havediscussions about equal versus
unequal with the lockers,
and we could be looking forpatterns. So what is this
problem?
Oh,
what? I'm just going to hang outthere for a moment. So what is
(13:26):
this problem? The luck ofproblem has to do with
building math and interactionswith math and interactions with
counting.
I know what, where I was going,I wanted to go to this page over
here.
So this only has 24 what's therelationship between 124
(13:52):
it's a question, and who knowshow the kids are going to answer
that I'm
what is
so one of the things we wediscovered is by having 100 on
(14:14):
one page, it's a lot smaller. Wewere have another scenario where
we have 100 on one page, butthis particular worksheet, when
we're working with the kids withthis one, and we're talking
about the locker problem, we'reessentially working on counting
skills. What happens when we'recounting by ones? What about by
twos, fours, eights. Whathappens if we count by 50? What
(14:38):
happens if we count by 77 whatare the different thing the
scenarios, and how can we havekids create their own questions
based on the scenario that we'retalking about? So
what happens with this one isall the lockers begin, closed.
(14:59):
Still.
Number one opens all thelockers. So on the worksheet,
they're flipping like Othellopieces that so the black and
white, the two color math piecesare red and yellow, so think
Othello, so we go in black andwhite. So if they start out
black, all the color, all thepieces on the paper are getting
(15:21):
flipped over to white. Studentnumber two
touches every other locker, andhe either opens or closes them,
since they are already all open,student number two is going to
close them all,
but he's only touching everyother locker, so he's touching
(15:43):
246, etc.
And some of the questions thatwe may facilitate are, what
happens with locker number 77does not student number two
touch that? And so we create adiscussion with the kids as well
as an experience with them.
(16:05):
Student number three is going totouch every third locker, and
what I have here on the nextslide is a picture of what it
might look like using the redyellow pieces that they have in
math class. If we start with redbeing closed. Locker number one
is open, two, three and four areclosed. So lock. If student
(16:27):
number three is touching everythird locker, this is what it
might look like on the paper. Sothen we start building in that
pattern recognition. We startbuilding an awareness of
counting.
What's it we made to talk aboutevens and odds along the way.
(16:47):
How I have done an adaption tothe worksheet is I've created
one that said that has thickerlines and thicker numbers. And
for some kids, they open andclosed, they need to see it.
They can't grasp that by justthe color. I've added some open
and close. So how I worked withJoni is looked at the
(17:10):
adaptations. So as we look alittle bit later at some of the
things that I have to offerlater, there all these
adaptations are included.
Subtraction is distance.
(17:31):
We utilize a 120 chart insteadof a 100 chart. The reason we do
that is because so many kidswere getting stuck at 100 they
didn't know what happens after100
so by adding and including 101through 120 and it filtered out,
and they got the pattern so theycould figure out from there what
121 etc, were. This is
(17:55):
whoop
This is great for skip counting.Skip counting. They can start
with ones and count every otherto learn the odds. They can work
on factors. They can work on allkinds of different ways to
manipulate this, but they cansee the numbers in front of
(18:16):
them, so it helps them to seethat, and I have one that I
decapitated,
is that the Where did it go?There? I was working with a
student earlier today, and wecut one of them, one of the
lines apart, and created
(18:37):
a number line. Anotheradaptation that I have done with
the 120 chart is make it on adouble sheet
so that and we have one that'son four sheets for kids that are
having trouble with theirvision.
Here I give an example ofcovering up the eights tables.
(19:01):
Do you see the pattern?
Do you see the diagonal? Havingkids become aware of these
patterns is their eyes justlight up because they're not
being asked to solve anyproblems at this point, they're
just experiencing numbers.They're
experiencing numbers. They'reexperiencing shapes and
(19:23):
patterns,
things like the eights tablesbecome visual to them. It's less
about 816, 24, and more aboutwhere is it located on the 120
chart, and what does the patternlook like?
We can turn distance into a game
(19:46):
like shoots and ladders,
and that
we like how many, how many 10sis it going to take to get from
55 to 77
and starting in odd locations?
This helps kids relate tonumbers better.
The third concept ismultiplication is rectangle. And
(20:09):
this one, we use a we start outwith paper.
So while we're working on paper,you see this guy is making an
origami he's folding paper andtouching it against the table.
One of the things that we'vediscovered is kids need
sometimes to move the folding ofpaper up into the air and fold
(20:31):
the paper this way, instead ofagainst the table. And that was
one of the adaptations that Ihave incorporated into the math.
So we start out with strips ofpaper rather than origami
squares. And the first thing wehave them do is fold the paper
in half.
(20:52):
We ask them to make aprediction. How many parts do
you think there will be?
So Angelica, you're the only onethat I can really talk to at the
moment. How many parts are theregoing to be?
And a half? You said, Yeah, Ifolded it once. How many parts
do you think it'll be two? So weopen it up and prove it. One,
(21:13):
part, two, part.
We might do it again. We bringit to the top. We fold it.
I've also used this as notes. Sosorry, there's numbers all over
it, because I used it as notes,one, part two, part three, part
four, part
and let's try it again.
(21:34):
Prediction, how many parts arethere going to be?
Eight?
I love the way the eyes closed,because it you closed off one of
your sensory pathways. Youthought so that was that whole
metacognition. You thought aboutwhat you were doing. Then we
(21:58):
have to prove it that there areindeed eight parts one, part
two, part three, part four, PartFive, Part Six, Part Seven, Part
Eight,
part and as John and Whitley wasteaching me this technique, I'm
going, Okay, I got all thesekids that have trouble with
folding, all these kids thathave trouble with cutting, all
(22:18):
these kids that have troublethings. In general, I said, What
about card stock? So we startedplaying around with card stock.
Yes, you can fold card stockinto eight parts as well, and it
when you open it up, there's alittle bit more texture. So when
you open it up, they have alittle bit more stability, a
(22:39):
little thicker, so that they canhold it better. So these kids
that are struggling with finemotor skills have a resource as
well.
So when we're folding things thefirst time, Jonily might put
something up on the board thatlooks like this, and she might
put half instead of
(23:00):
point five, or one over two, orall of those variations of half,
especially for thosekindergarten and first graders
who've never heard the term.
And then 1/4 243, fourths and1/8
and then another thing that wedo. And I put it all in one
(23:21):
slide so that you could see it.If we did one end at zero and
one end at 60, we could talkabout minutes on the clock. You
could do zero to 12 and talkabout
the numbers on the clock thehour. You could also go zero to
100 and talk about dollars. Youcould go zero to one and then
(23:43):
talk maybe about half a mile, orthree quarters of a mile.
And then if you get them tomark, you could put the 30 in
the middle, the 45 and the 15 onhere. And if you do, this is
the, this is like the mostbrilliant thing she's ever
created, the analog clock afteryou've counted it, we went from
(24:05):
a rectangle,
created the circle. And if Iwould have known this when I had
that third grader, I think hewould have understood, because
he got rectangles, he was notgetting the circle. So by
changing the most difficult partof mathematics into a the
easiest part of mathematics, itchanges their understanding of
(24:29):
the complex amounts of parts ofmathematics.
And you can create number lineson the pieces of paper, and you
don't necessarily have to fillin all the numbers. You can
create whatever you need toalong the way.
One of the little tricks theydidn't say was put your numbers
(24:50):
on the crease rather than in thespace, because it confuses
people when I'm doing them paperfolding with words and stuff,
that's when I put it between.
So we can work on fractions andskip County, we work on time,
distance and money.
(25:10):
Angela, I'm going to pausethere.
What was the AHA that you had sofar with this process and this
thought and these
so what's your takeaway? So far,I thought I like the new way of
thinking of these differentterms of division, of sharing,
(25:33):
subtraction is distance from onenumber to another, and then a
fractions as skip counting wassomething that I'd never thought
about, but that's true.
So just like rewording that likeif they have a good concept of
one thing and being able to or agood grasp of one thing and
(25:55):
being able to relate it tosomething else to help them
understand it. Emily, I don'tknow if you're able to put
anything in the chat, but you'rewelcome to share as well. Oh,
would you think that you wouldhave time in your day to
implement little pieces of theseideas? If not, you weren't hit
(26:16):
listening to me because it wassix minutes a week. That's not
much, even as an OT who isseeing kids for 30 minutes, I
can grab six minutes to showthem a little something about
mathematics.
But if my school won't supportthis, this is can be applied to
any math curriculum. It doesn'thave to be a standalone system.
(26:42):
It is part of cognitive science,and incorporating cognitive
science into mathematics willhelp boost their retention.
Why should I try this approach?I just mentioned it because it's
part of cognitive silentscience.
(27:03):
What if I tried other mathinterventions before? What can
you do? You try it and it does.Doesn't work. Well, what we have
proven time and time again iskids have better memory,
retention and focus andengagement with it. So even if
you've tried other probleminterventions. This one is one
(27:23):
that would just blow you away.What if my students are in
middle school and high school?That's where this began. Joni
was an eighth grade teacher whenshe started working on this.
I've applied it mostly to thekindergarten
through second grade level, butshe has applied it K through 12.
(27:46):
What if I don't have any strongmath skills myself? I don't I
fumble through it every day.
All right, you and I, Angelica,you and I have talked Emily, you
and I have talked aboutdifferent things, but the locker
problem was the first thing thatwe talked about. What we have
put together is a two and a halfhour workshop on each one of the
(28:09):
problems, teaching you how touse it from K through 12th
grade. There's transcripts andaudio files of the workshop as
well. So in case you want tolisten to it in the car, you
don't have to have the video on.You can just use the audio file.
Jonily has had the opportunityto record herself teaching in
the locker problem. There's fivehours worth of audio files of
(28:32):
her teaching 30 minute sessionsto K through eighth grade.
There's classroom worksheets,
there's task packets and there'sot adapted work. The task
packets, I didn't really mentionyet. The task packets are
packets that the kids havecreated their own questions, and
they we just keep building on tothese packets with the student
(28:55):
questions, and then duringindependent time, they have
these task packets to answer thequestions for themselves.
For as far as the locker problemgoes, from a fine motor
standpoint or from an OTstandpoint, we work on fine
motor skills in handmanipulation, counting left,
(29:17):
right, discrimination,orientation and turn taking
with the 120 chart. The biggestthing is eight hours of audio
files that's just gold initself, and plus she has
everything else that I'vementioned before. And as far as
the 120 chart goes, we look atpattern recognition, dexterity,
counting, taking things from aconcrete to an abstract level.
(29:41):
And it really does impact theirsocial, emotional connections
with numbers,
paper folding. There's 11 hours.There isn't task as many task
worksheets, because it beingsuch a concrete object, but it
does help with time to.
Distance, money, and this isalso something that really
(30:04):
affects that social, emotionaland social sensory processing
part of connecting withmathematics,
those three programs, if youbought them all individually,
would be 891,
I have created a six week planfor how to implement that to
(30:24):
kids who are struggling
to help it foster thinking,facilitate collaboration, engage
pattern recognition, activatehands on fun and empowering
positive executive function Forparents, I do a the sick week
course alongside them, so I'mworking with Homeschool parents
(30:46):
to apply this. So I have somecase studies that that I've been
working on with the homeschoolpopulation and how it has
changed their kids applicationof mathematics
with we add that on, and another297, that comes to 11, 488,
I'm also consider also includingin this package today my book at
(31:11):
handwriting, brain, bodydisconnect, along with the
dysgraphia dotter dysgraphiamethod, which Angelica, you and
I have talked about. It's an 11week, course. It helps build the
relationship between reading andwriting and mathematics. It
helps create that. It gives youthat neurobiology of what's
(31:32):
going on in the brain to applythe cognitive science. So not
only do you get the actualmathematics, but you also with
this, you get the application ofwhat, how to implement cognitive
based interventions. I have over100
stimulus that you can use thatare just images that you can use
(31:55):
to create conversation with thekids that don't apply to
mathematics.
You I know that's one thingsthat you're interested in, and
that is converting to gettingyour describe your specialist
and working with your districtcenter.
What I'm this is new, and isthis is the first time I'm
(32:17):
offering this. I have trieddoing the practicum
over every week meeting and havethe practicum done by the end.
It was overwhelming. Everybodywho took it. I've tried doing
monthly meetings. It seems todrag it out, and people don't
get distracted. This is thefirst time I'm going to try it.
(32:39):
I'm going to try bi weekly, sothat we meet every other week,
gives you a little extra time,but it doesn't drag out for an
entire year.
Adding that onto that, it comesto nearly $2,000
there's also a bonus course thatI am including for 297
with all of that,
(33:01):
I am offering this whole packageto you for 497, so for the price
of the practicum, I'm offeringall of it to you.
Do you have any thoughts orquestions?
No, and I know you you're readyto purchase. Yeah,
(33:21):
I know you're ready to purchase,but I also wanted you to see
some of the the mathematics. Letme stop sharing. I.
Hey everybody. Cheri Dotterer, here, your host here
at the writing glitch, the lastcouple months, I've been running
a webinar, and I thought I wouldshare it with you. So this
episode was pre recorded atanother time, and I wanted to
share the the webinar with you.The at the end, there's going to
(00:21):
be an offer for a course bundlethat I am I have created through
my work with John Eliza panzic,so at the end, you'll see what
I'm talking about, but if youwant to go right down now into
the show notes and click on thatoffer, I will have it ready for
(00:42):
you whenever you want to starttalk to you soon. Thanks. Bye.
Hey everybody. How's it goingtoday? So today, we are going to
talk a little bit about threeinterventions to help folks with
math. Now, how this got startedwas
I had, I was doing an evaluationon a third grader. I am an
(01:05):
Occupational Therapist, and
this third grader was havingtrouble with spelling. My gifted
daughter, who doesn't who wasgetting, like, hundreds on
everything comes in, I can'tspell. I can't spell. I'm like,
What are you talking about? Youcan't spell
here, it was like one word thatwas throwing her 100% off
(01:27):
kilter, and she just couldn'tget over the perfectionism that
she had. But it got me tothinking, because the more I
delved into gifted students, themore I found out that they often
have trouble with writing.
But then I realized that, aftergetting a request from a parent,
that kids also have trouble withmathematics a lot of times, and
(01:53):
there's Splinter skills, likesometimes they're good at it,
sometimes they're not, but thisone kiddo that I had that was
with a learning disability. Hewas trying to do fractions, and
mom had this pie chart, and hehad to figure out what a quarter
of the pie chart was, and justcouldn't do it. Fast forward to
(02:13):
around 2018
I met Jonily zupanzec, whohappens to be on the call at the
moment, and she is a mathteacher, and has a very unique
way of teaching math, and so Ihave been learning from her and
practicing how and learning howto integrate the subject matter
into writing skills, becausewriting is more than just
(02:36):
literacy, It is allcommunication. So being able to
write complex numbers andproblems on piece of paper is
just as much writing as it is tocraft a very detailed letter.
I mentioned I am an OccupationalTherapist. The people that are
(02:58):
on the call at the moment knowwho I am.
I wrote handwriting, brain,body, disconnect. I participated
in an anthology with 15 otherauthors, and I have a chapter in
a textbook on handwriting. Joniand I are writing a book which
we don't have a title for ityet. I just wrote the first
(03:20):
draft of a historical fiction. Iknow it sounds like it's out
there in never, Neverland, but Ineeded to practice my
my own disability of writing andbeing able to write creatively,
versus the handwriting, brain,body tech. Handwriting brain,
body disconnect, which is moreof a technical book I needed to
(03:41):
practice that. I also have twopodcasts, the writing glitch,
and I share one with Jonily tierone interventions. The one on
the left is more about writingskills. The one on the right is
more about math skills, but it'sthey're both about the cognitive
science of learning.
(04:02):
And my courses are on disabilitylabs,
so I have a question for you.Have you ever watched a toddler
play?
They stack, they sort colors,they create. They're very
creative and imaginative, butthe whole time they're doing
that, they see numbers asshapes. They see triangles as
(04:27):
although they getting to knowthem as triangles, they might be
counting them. They might beseeing how they integrate with
other shapes. You've heard thesaying a square peg in a round
hole, and vice versa. It justdoesn't work well. When they're
toddlers, they're trying tofigure that out.
They aren't creating for they'renot solving formulas, they're
(04:50):
not memorizing, they're they'remaybe mimicking, but they're
also being very creative, andthey'll approach things in ways
that we've never imagined.
Uh, numbers as shapes,
recognizing patterns andsticking with it is really the
area that I've been workingwith, and that is, how do we get
(05:14):
kids to see numbers as shapes?How do we get them to recognize
patterns and see that longstanding impact
so that they recall theinformation in weeks to come.
How do the interventions that wecreate align with brain
(05:37):
processes and don't negate
learning? How do we enhance it?
How do we recognize andsynthesize numbers into our
everyday activities? How do wesequence them with our
relationships to patterns andsorting and categorizing.
(06:02):
Do we see them?
Some kids just know them. Somekid makes a lot of mistakes.
Make a lot of mistakes along theway. And how do we take those
mistakes and turn them positive,so that they can see that their
mistakes were a way of thinkingand not
(06:24):
incorrect thought, because theirmistakes are the way their brain
sees their environment.
And last but not least, how dowe get them to solve what we
need them to solve? We usemanipulatives.
We will need to break the cycleof fear and frustration. That's
(06:45):
the first thing we need to do.We need to break that
frustration before we can everbe successful at math or writing
implementation.
We need to shift their mind sothat they can tackle that
challenge, and that sounds like,oh, yeah, that sounds easy, but
yeah, it also sounds like anightmare all at the same time.
(07:12):
How can we get them tocritically think through the
patterns efficiently so thatthey can solve the problem
today? What I'd like to do isI'd like to share three of the
tasks that Jonily has puttogether
to solve problems from K through12th grade.
(07:36):
Now how do I get involved? WhatI have done with her problems is
I've created adaptations. SoI'll explain some of those as we
go through these problems.Today. There is John Lee and I.
So you have a face that goeswith the name.
(07:57):
One of the things is, we don'tmemorize the Pythagorean
theorem. This,
we don't necessarily sit downand memorize pi. We're not
looking at those kind of things,although they are very helpful
to some students. When we addthat sing song to it, that is
not the focus of what we'redoing, but we have discovered
(08:21):
that as little as six minutes aweek we can change kids
outcomes.
Joni participated in a two mathresearch studies. The first one
was with the sixth grade cohort
at the end of their fifth grade,year before they ever had any
(08:42):
intervention,
their proficiency level on theend of state testing was 27%
what
the powers that be in the nationis that we have
The basic the proficient and theadvanced levels. Basically, we
(09:03):
all of the national reports aredivided into those 320. 7% of
these kids landed in theproficient category with that
six minutes a week
of intervention. 60%
the scores at the end of thisyear were 60% proficient,
(09:24):
instead of the 27 and 92% of thekids had growth
in study number two, this had afew more students in it, had 130
students in it
at the end of the year, scoresbefore they had any
(09:45):
intervention, the proficiencylevels were 50 to 65
this was partial implementation,so it wasn't quite six minutes a
week, but over two years. But.
Here again, kids improve theirproficiency levels. So
(10:07):
before I get into the some ofthe math ideas, does that sound
like something that you'd beinterested in learning more
about? Angelica,
yeah,
I know Emily is
our first thing is, division issharing.
(10:33):
Sorry, I thought you were onsilent
and I I didn't turn it on. Donot disturb, because my daughter
just went to the ER. She shouldbe okay,
but I didn't want to turn ittotally off. So forgive me if I
keep looking down at my phone,but I'm just making sure it's
not her division is sharing.
(10:57):
So let's think about this.Suppose we have
two kids, and you need needed toshare an uneven number with each
one of them. How are you goingto do that? How are they going
to divide it? How are the kidsgoing to plan out how that gets
divided?
(11:18):
How about this scenario? We have100 students with 100 lockers.
Tell me about that. Emily, whatdo you think? Tell me what, what
first comes to your mind whenyou think of 100 students and
100 lockers,
she may not be able to Angelica,how about you? What do you think
(11:39):
of when you think of 100students and 100 lockers, one
locker per student,
Okay, anything else that's a lotof lockers. It's a lot of
lockers. I think mayhem.
I just see the mayhem coming.But
for a kiddo who is inkindergarten, who may not have
(12:00):
an older sister or brother. Theconcept of a locker may be they
have no idea where, if you justask kids about lockers, they're
going to come up with all kindsof stories, even before you
start the math. But lockersdon't have to be the object of
this scenario. You could usecards. You could use Roblox, you
(12:23):
could use almost any object tocreate this scenario. It's just
lockers are something thatmiddle school kids know about.
Some ways to help with thelockers is sorting the lockers
behind the sign there are colorcoded so they're grouped in
(12:45):
groups of two.
We could do some sorting if theyweren't attached to the wall,
but kids could sort them byknowing how much
of something that they werelooking for within the lockers.
(13:05):
We also may talk and havediscussions about equal versus
unequal with the lockers,
and we could be looking forpatterns. So what is this
problem?
Oh,
what? I'm just going to hang outthere for a moment. So what is
(13:26):
this problem? The luck ofproblem has to do with
building math and interactionswith math and interactions with
counting.
I know what, where I was going,I wanted to go to this page over
here.
So this only has 24 what's therelationship between 124
(13:52):
it's a question, and who knowshow the kids are going to answer
that I'm
what is
so one of the things we wediscovered is by having 100 on
(14:14):
one page, it's a lot smaller. Wewere have another scenario where
we have 100 on one page, butthis particular worksheet, when
we're working with the kids withthis one, and we're talking
about the locker problem, we'reessentially working on counting
skills. What happens when we'recounting by ones? What about by
twos, fours, eights. Whathappens if we count by 50? What
(14:38):
happens if we count by 77 whatare the different thing the
scenarios, and how can we havekids create their own questions
based on the scenario that we'retalking about? So
what happens with this one isall the lockers begin, closed.
(14:59):
Still.
Number one opens all thelockers. So on the worksheet,
they're flipping like Othellopieces that so the black and
white, the two color math piecesare red and yellow, so think
Othello, so we go in black andwhite. So if they start out
black, all the color, all thepieces on the paper are getting
(15:21):
flipped over to white. Studentnumber two
touches every other locker, andhe either opens or closes them,
since they are already all open,student number two is going to
close them all,
but he's only touching everyother locker, so he's touching
(15:43):
246, etc.
And some of the questions thatwe may facilitate are, what
happens with locker number 77does not student number two
touch that? And so we create adiscussion with the kids as well
as an experience with them.
(16:05):
Student number three is going totouch every third locker, and
what I have here on the nextslide is a picture of what it
might look like using the redyellow pieces that they have in
math class. If we start with redbeing closed. Locker number one
is open, two, three and four areclosed. So lock. If student
(16:27):
number three is touching everythird locker, this is what it
might look like on the paper. Sothen we start building in that
pattern recognition. We startbuilding an awareness of
counting.
What's it we made to talk aboutevens and odds along the way.
(16:47):
How I have done an adaption tothe worksheet is I've created
one that said that has thickerlines and thicker numbers. And
for some kids, they open andclosed, they need to see it.
They can't grasp that by justthe color. I've added some open
and close. So how I worked withJoni is looked at the
(17:10):
adaptations. So as we look alittle bit later at some of the
things that I have to offerlater, there all these
adaptations are included.
Subtraction is distance.
(17:31):
We utilize a 120 chart insteadof a 100 chart. The reason we do
that is because so many kidswere getting stuck at 100 they
didn't know what happens after100
so by adding and including 101through 120 and it filtered out,
and they got the pattern so theycould figure out from there what
121 etc, were. This is
(17:55):
whoop
This is great for skip counting.Skip counting. They can start
with ones and count every otherto learn the odds. They can work
on factors. They can work on allkinds of different ways to
manipulate this, but they cansee the numbers in front of
(18:16):
them, so it helps them to seethat, and I have one that I
decapitated,
is that the Where did it go?There? I was working with a
student earlier today, and wecut one of them, one of the
lines apart, and created
(18:37):
a number line. Anotheradaptation that I have done with
the 120 chart is make it on adouble sheet
so that and we have one that'son four sheets for kids that are
having trouble with theirvision.
Here I give an example ofcovering up the eights tables.
(19:01):
Do you see the pattern?
Do you see the diagonal? Havingkids become aware of these
patterns is their eyes justlight up because they're not
being asked to solve anyproblems at this point, they're
just experiencing numbers.They're
experiencing numbers. They'reexperiencing shapes and
(19:23):
patterns,
things like the eights tablesbecome visual to them. It's less
about 816, 24, and more aboutwhere is it located on the 120
chart, and what does the patternlook like?
We can turn distance into a game
(19:46):
like shoots and ladders,
and that
we like how many, how many 10sis it going to take to get from
55 to 77
and starting in odd locations?
This helps kids relate tonumbers better.
The third concept ismultiplication is rectangle. And
(20:09):
this one, we use a we start outwith paper.
So while we're working on paper,you see this guy is making an
origami he's folding paper andtouching it against the table.
One of the things that we'vediscovered is kids need
sometimes to move the folding ofpaper up into the air and fold
(20:31):
the paper this way, instead ofagainst the table. And that was
one of the adaptations that Ihave incorporated into the math.
So we start out with strips ofpaper rather than origami
squares. And the first thing wehave them do is fold the paper
in half.
(20:52):
We ask them to make aprediction. How many parts do
you think there will be?
So Angelica, you're the only onethat I can really talk to at the
moment. How many parts are theregoing to be?
And a half? You said, Yeah, Ifolded it once. How many parts
do you think it'll be two? So weopen it up and prove it. One,
(21:13):
part, two, part.
We might do it again. We bringit to the top. We fold it.
I've also used this as notes. Sosorry, there's numbers all over
it, because I used it as notes,one, part two, part three, part
four, part
and let's try it again.
(21:34):
Prediction, how many parts arethere going to be?
Eight?
I love the way the eyes closed,because it you closed off one of
your sensory pathways. Youthought so that was that whole
metacognition. You thought aboutwhat you were doing. Then we
(21:58):
have to prove it that there areindeed eight parts one, part
two, part three, part four, PartFive, Part Six, Part Seven, Part
Eight,
part and as John and Whitley wasteaching me this technique, I'm
going, Okay, I got all thesekids that have trouble with
folding, all these kids thathave trouble with cutting, all
(22:18):
these kids that have troublethings. In general, I said, What
about card stock? So we startedplaying around with card stock.
Yes, you can fold card stockinto eight parts as well, and it
when you open it up, there's alittle bit more texture. So when
you open it up, they have alittle bit more stability, a
(22:39):
little thicker, so that they canhold it better. So these kids
that are struggling with finemotor skills have a resource as
well.
So when we're folding things thefirst time, Jonily might put
something up on the board thatlooks like this, and she might
put half instead of
(23:00):
point five, or one over two, orall of those variations of half,
especially for thosekindergarten and first graders
who've never heard the term.
And then 1/4 243, fourths and1/8
and then another thing that wedo. And I put it all in one
(23:21):
slide so that you could see it.If we did one end at zero and
one end at 60, we could talkabout minutes on the clock. You
could do zero to 12 and talkabout
the numbers on the clock thehour. You could also go zero to
100 and talk about dollars. Youcould go zero to one and then
(23:43):
talk maybe about half a mile, orthree quarters of a mile.
And then if you get them tomark, you could put the 30 in
the middle, the 45 and the 15 onhere. And if you do, this is
the, this is like the mostbrilliant thing she's ever
created, the analog clock afteryou've counted it, we went from
(24:05):
a rectangle,
created the circle. And if Iwould have known this when I had
that third grader, I think hewould have understood, because
he got rectangles, he was notgetting the circle. So by
changing the most difficult partof mathematics into a the
easiest part of mathematics, itchanges their understanding of
(24:29):
the complex amounts of parts ofmathematics.
And you can create number lineson the pieces of paper, and you
don't necessarily have to fillin all the numbers. You can
create whatever you need toalong the way.
One of the little tricks theydidn't say was put your numbers
(24:50):
on the crease rather than in thespace, because it confuses
people when I'm doing them paperfolding with words and stuff,
that's when I put it between.
So we can work on fractions andskip County, we work on time,
distance and money.
(25:10):
Angela, I'm going to pausethere.
What was the AHA that you had sofar with this process and this
thought and these
so what's your takeaway? So far,I thought I like the new way of
thinking of these differentterms of division, of sharing,
(25:33):
subtraction is distance from onenumber to another, and then a
fractions as skip counting wassomething that I'd never thought
about, but that's true.
So just like rewording that likeif they have a good concept of
one thing and being able to or agood grasp of one thing and
(25:55):
being able to relate it tosomething else to help them
understand it. Emily, I don'tknow if you're able to put
anything in the chat, but you'rewelcome to share as well. Oh,
would you think that you wouldhave time in your day to
implement little pieces of theseideas? If not, you weren't hit
(26:16):
listening to me because it wassix minutes a week. That's not
much, even as an OT who isseeing kids for 30 minutes, I
can grab six minutes to showthem a little something about
mathematics.
But if my school won't supportthis, this is can be applied to
any math curriculum. It doesn'thave to be a standalone system.
(26:42):
It is part of cognitive science,and incorporating cognitive
science into mathematics willhelp boost their retention.
Why should I try this approach?I just mentioned it because it's
part of cognitive silentscience.
(27:03):
What if I tried other mathinterventions before? What can
you do? You try it and it does.Doesn't work. Well, what we have
proven time and time again iskids have better memory,
retention and focus andengagement with it. So even if
you've tried other probleminterventions. This one is one
(27:23):
that would just blow you away.What if my students are in
middle school and high school?That's where this began. Joni
was an eighth grade teacher whenshe started working on this.
I've applied it mostly to thekindergarten
through second grade level, butshe has applied it K through 12.
(27:46):
What if I don't have any strongmath skills myself? I don't I
fumble through it every day.
All right, you and I, Angelica,you and I have talked Emily, you
and I have talked aboutdifferent things, but the locker
problem was the first thing thatwe talked about. What we have
put together is a two and a halfhour workshop on each one of the
(28:09):
problems, teaching you how touse it from K through 12th
grade. There's transcripts andaudio files of the workshop as
well. So in case you want tolisten to it in the car, you
don't have to have the video on.You can just use the audio file.
Jonily has had the opportunityto record herself teaching in
the locker problem. There's fivehours worth of audio files of
(28:32):
her teaching 30 minute sessionsto K through eighth grade.
There's classroom worksheets,
there's task packets and there'sot adapted work. The task
packets, I didn't really mentionyet. The task packets are
packets that the kids havecreated their own questions, and
they we just keep building on tothese packets with the student
(28:55):
questions, and then duringindependent time, they have
these task packets to answer thequestions for themselves.
For as far as the locker problemgoes, from a fine motor
standpoint or from an OTstandpoint, we work on fine
motor skills in handmanipulation, counting left,
(29:17):
right, discrimination,orientation and turn taking
with the 120 chart. The biggestthing is eight hours of audio
files that's just gold initself, and plus she has
everything else that I'vementioned before. And as far as
the 120 chart goes, we look atpattern recognition, dexterity,
counting, taking things from aconcrete to an abstract level.
(29:41):
And it really does impact theirsocial, emotional connections
with numbers,
paper folding. There's 11 hours.There isn't task as many task
worksheets, because it beingsuch a concrete object, but it
does help with time to.
Distance, money, and this isalso something that really
(30:04):
affects that social, emotionaland social sensory processing
part of connecting withmathematics,
those three programs, if youbought them all individually,
would be 891,
I have created a six week planfor how to implement that to
(30:24):
kids who are struggling
to help it foster thinking,facilitate collaboration, engage
pattern recognition, activatehands on fun and empowering
positive executive function Forparents, I do a the sick week
course alongside them, so I'mworking with Homeschool parents
(30:46):
to apply this. So I have somecase studies that that I've been
working on with the homeschoolpopulation and how it has
changed their kids applicationof mathematics
with we add that on, and another297, that comes to 11, 488,
I'm also consider also includingin this package today my book at
(31:11):
handwriting, brain, bodydisconnect, along with the
dysgraphia dotter dysgraphiamethod, which Angelica, you and
I have talked about. It's an 11week, course. It helps build the
relationship between reading andwriting and mathematics. It
helps create that. It gives youthat neurobiology of what's
(31:32):
going on in the brain to applythe cognitive science. So not
only do you get the actualmathematics, but you also with
this, you get the application ofwhat, how to implement cognitive
based interventions. I have over100
stimulus that you can use thatare just images that you can use
(31:55):
to create conversation with thekids that don't apply to
mathematics.
You I know that's one thingsthat you're interested in, and
that is converting to gettingyour describe your specialist
and working with your districtcenter.
What I'm this is new, and isthis is the first time I'm
(32:17):
offering this. I have trieddoing the practicum
over every week meeting and havethe practicum done by the end.
It was overwhelming. Everybodywho took it. I've tried doing
monthly meetings. It seems todrag it out, and people don't
get distracted. This is thefirst time I'm going to try it.
(32:39):
I'm going to try bi weekly, sothat we meet every other week,
gives you a little extra time,but it doesn't drag out for an
entire year.
Adding that onto that, it comesto nearly $2,000
there's also a bonus course thatI am including for 297
with all of that,
(33:01):
I am offering this whole packageto you for 497, so for the price
of the practicum, I'm offeringall of it to you.
Do you have any thoughts orquestions?
No, and I know you you're readyto purchase. Yeah,
(33:21):
I know you're ready to purchase,but I also wanted you to see
some of the the mathematics. Letme stop sharing. I.
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