WrestleMagic Team Discusses Under-Pushed Stars

The Wrestlemagic Team discuss a handful of stars that were underpushed, and that we never got to see their full potential.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
All right, everybody, tonight's episode of Wrestle Magic, we are
talking about under push stars. We're gonna have a little
bit of fun tonight. Of course, we being the gardener
and Dariel and myself. So without further ado, guys, how
are we doing tonight?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Dariel, how are you doing?

Speaker 3 (00:30):
All right?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Doing?

Speaker 3 (00:31):
All right?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
That's what I like to hear. By the way, do
you have a monitor? What do you? What do you?
What do you go by?

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Like?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm the gardener because I love the garden. What about you, Dariel?

Speaker 3 (00:41):
I never really thought of one.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Well, then I guess maybe we should let the listeners
name you. That's kind of like how I got my name,
because everybody knows I'd love to grow hot peppers, and
I made some really awesome Carolina reapers this year. So
I just want to keep going with that flow. How
about you, Mav? How you doing? Brother? Maintenance? Mav?

Speaker 4 (01:01):
Just another day and maintenance?

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Man, things have been interesting lately, I'll say that much.
I can't give too much away. You guys know how
that is.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Well, I understand that, But what are you going to return?

Speaker 4 (01:15):
Well, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
I mean I feel like I'm kind of back, right
now for whatever it is that we're doing, and honestly,
I'm glad that we can be a part of this
for the moment.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
But anyways, yeah, let's get right into it.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
So, yes, tonight we're talking about under Pushed Stars Gardner,
do you want to start off man.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, absolutely, So there's a person that I was really
a big fan of, but they killed the character off
because of the way that they had portrayed him during
the timeline of what was happening in real history. And
I'm talking about none other than and this is going
to be controversial, Mohammed Hassan. First of all, the man
who portrayed Mohammed Assan was actually Italian, and while his

(01:58):
life in ww was his, his wife's span in WWE
was very short. He exuded a weird charisma. He could
get under everybody's skin. He could do He was great
in the ring. He wasn't I mean, he wasn't Rob
Van damn flippy, He wasn't Randy Orton captivating, he wasn't

(02:22):
seeing punk charisma. But he had a little bit of each.
He had about thirty percent of each, well ninety percent,
and he had something. The way he portrayed his character
of the anti you know, the person that had what
he felt was reverse racism. It was an interesting character,

(02:44):
and I honestly think that the money in the character
would have been eventually a face turn. However, it never
got to be that long because WWE wasted him by
using him in a terrorist angle against the Undertaker and
then using what seemed to be terrorists as henchmen right

(03:05):
after bombings in London.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
Oh God, that just seems way too far man.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
And the thing is, they had this filmed, it was
in the can. They could have cut it out, they
could have put somethingthing else, and there's other ways to
do this. Now, wwe' has always claimed, well, we didn't
know about the bombings until the day of things like that.
There's always he she it. So they sent him back
down to OVW down here in Louisville, and then you know,

(03:30):
they released the guy, but it wasn't his fault. And
basically I think I don't know which network it was.
I want to say it might have been still up
and at the time they said, if this guy's still
on your show, we're canceling your show. Now. They weren't
big on massd wrestlers at the time, but throw the
guy a mask and let him wrestle somebody else. There's
no reason a fire man who clearly he could do

(03:52):
some stuff in the ring, and he had something on
the mic. There's ways of repack somebody. They just didn't
give that benefit. They were just so afraid of being
canceled by the network. Where okay, switch them over to
raw in USA under a mask. Wait six months. I

(04:13):
feel that the man had way more potential than they
ever untapped. And I feel that, like, like I said,
you could have made him. I know, mass wrestling is,
I guess some say pass. I still kind of miss
some of my mass wrestlers. You go down to Mexico,
they don't want you to have a bare face, so

(04:33):
we're talking different dynamics here. So he bounced around. And
then the man became a school teacher. God bless him.
He educated people. He does wrestling conventions and things like
that to this day. But I mean, he educates people.
He even felt bad about the whole angle. He didn't,
you know, when he knew what was happening on TV
versus what he had filmed. He knew that his career

(04:56):
was over. That was not fair to somebody as buddingly
talented as he was. So I really feel that Mohammed
Asan was given a bad hand of cards, and I
think that wwe could have done better, especially knowing that
they had it in the can, and they could have
done something to fill those twenty minutes. There's always a way.
They love their talking sentiments, There's always a way. So

(05:18):
that's my number one. Any guys, any thoughts on Mohammed Asan.

Speaker 5 (05:23):
I mean, he was definitely a heat generator for sure. Now,
I do think that the fact that they chose to
make that character was in poor taste, just given everything
that's been going on with the political climate at that time.

(05:47):
That was just a terrible idea and to scapegoat to
a dude's career or I don't know, some really bs patriotism,
It was just kind of it was not a savory
thing to experience. And I mean I was, you know,
a teenager when he was on TV, and even then

(06:11):
I was just like, I don't know about this.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Man.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
That the whole patriotic angles and everything. It always kind of,
especially nowadays, it falls a little more flat than it
used to. But we're not in the days of you know,
Cold War and we need American number one all the
time sort of thing. So it does just seem like
just a bad idea. That's one of those things that
you know that's a yeah, you're going to generate heat,

(06:38):
for sure, but it's not good heat. You want to
have somebody go out there dress as a klansman, that's
not going to get you any kind of good heat.
They're gonna get ran out of town, which you know
might be good for that night for TV, but after
that it's like you might have just ruined that person's life.

Speaker 4 (06:52):
It's not going to go well for them anyways.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
But uh yeah, on from that, uh Dariel, who would
you like to add him?

Speaker 5 (07:00):
So normally I would just I didn't save the big
one for less, but this one's pretty pretty important to me.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Knyan the Innovator of Offense.

Speaker 5 (07:17):
Kanon did not get treated well in the w w E,
mostly due to the fact that he was gay and
they really did a terrible job, did a terrible thing.
I'm a terrible job, just terrible thing, and like burying
him so hard and just kind of making an absolute

(07:41):
mockery of him, and then the nickname the Innovator of
Offense was as not as true as you could get
for this guy, because if you look at all the
indie wrestlers, he basically walked so they could run everything

(08:02):
that you see indie wrestlers do nowadays. So it's something
that Kenyon did in w CW. Like as far as
turbule neck breakers, as far as modified spinebusters like sit
out spinebusters, the flatliner. Everyone has a flat liner finisher,
everyone everyone has one, and he was the dude that

(08:25):
really like pioneered that. And as far as like his character,
you know, he was a goofball. He was silly as
all get out, but he made up for the silliness
when he stepped in the ring. You saw it every
night that he was in the ring, Like he had

(08:46):
great mite skills and despite the overbite that he had
that kind of created a bit of a list for him.
It it was more or less masked by the fact that,
you know, he's from the East Coast, so he just
kind of had like a typical East Coaster accent and
just you know, had a little effect to it. But

(09:06):
I mean, the dude had a great look. I mean
he was like six ' four six y five or something.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
He was a big dude. He had a great physique.

Speaker 5 (09:16):
I mean when he showed up as Mortis, you know,
this dude's like a Mortal Kombat sque character and demonstrated
all of his skill with that character. And then when
the mask came off, you know, he's done like a
hat and the denim cut off, and you know, he
had so much personality and it's hard to find someone

(09:43):
like that nowadays. That just came off as that, you know,
unique and organic. He just he always has something to
show people. And like the Jersey Triad, you know, he
had DDP in his corner.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
He had great little tru that that could have went
far in the Attitude era in w if they would
have put those three together right.

Speaker 5 (10:02):
But unfortunately, because the company WCW got bought out. Yes,
just about every wrestler got buried, other than the ones
that really got over, just because they were too big
of an attraction to just throw to the wayside. And
they didn't see that in Canyon, even though, come on,

(10:25):
he had the catchphrase, and anybody who's a wrestling fan,
you say, who's better?

Speaker 3 (10:31):
Everyone else should go than Canyon.

Speaker 5 (10:34):
And let's be real, I don't think there were too
many people that were better than him at that time.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
He had a unique skill set. And I remember the
first city he got over it and do you know
what it is? I do not Lexington, Kentucky. He came
out and he said, so, I want to ask all
you Wildcat fans who's better than Canyon? And they all
screamed nobody. He grabbed the mic. He said, they loved me,
really loved me, right, like he.

Speaker 5 (11:02):
Was a character, just just as a person. You could
tell that the dude just was a character. But he
was unfortunately troubled by being a closeted man and a
very hyper masculine and honestly in some a lot of
ways tossically masculine industry. But it didn't detract from his

(11:24):
skill in every aspect of the business.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
I do have one question about him.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Now, Kenyan's a little bit before my time, but I
know a little bit about him. Wasn't he part of
a tag team called like Men at Work or something
like that?

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Oh with Joey Maggs. Oh it was bad.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
But the point that I wanted to make here was
wasn't it nineteen ninety five when WWE was coming out
with all these stupid occupation gimmicks that just nobody cared about.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
You know, Kinge's a dentist.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
There was plumbers and stuff like that, and nobody could
really relate to them. But thing is with men at work,
It's like, even if that might have worked, why are
we doing that in what was it like ninety eight
or some thing? It just didn't make any sense. I
never really idea.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
The ironic thing about that is when he came out
as Mortis. So first of all, do you guys know
why he was Mortis?

Speaker 4 (12:12):
Blood Runs Cold?

Speaker 1 (12:12):
That video game that was supposed to come out, it
was going to be Glacier Mortis, And wasn't there a
third guy that was also involved.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
With Glacier Wrath who turned out it was? It was
Brian Clark who ended up being one part of Chronic
who was also yeah, right, so Adams. It was Brian Clark.
Brian Adams was Crush who ended up being his tag partner.
So the idea that Eric Bishoff came up with was

(12:39):
that Mortal Kombat was so big that they would create
these characters and they were going to be main inventors.
But people were buying it because Glacier was DS's in
the ring and that means the drizzling s words and
I mean he was god awful garbage, one of the
worst performers I've ever seen in my life. But we're
not going to go there. And you know, they've even

(13:01):
interviewed Canyon. He's like, okay, look, you look terrible in
the ring. You strike a pose and walk around with it.
He's like, it's gotten old. You look terrible, and everybody
booed them, and then they tried to push them one
time where they had the nWo in the ring and
some of the WCW guys came to the ring, and
then the Blood Runs Cold guys came to the ring,
and they kept zooming on the Blood Runs Cold guys,

(13:23):
and the fans kept booing because they mostly would focus
on Glacier. So, and if you know my story about
the time I met Glacier, it's kind of funny. But
the point is, do you know, well, obviously we all
know like how talented Canyon was. And The Innovator of

(13:45):
Offense was a knockoff on Tommy Dreamer's nickname of the
Innovator of Violence because they had him tagging up with
Perry Saturn at the time. However, he did innovate a
lot of things. He did come up with a lot
of moves. There were two different versions of the flat liner.
One was like a fay asser over the second rope
or from the second turnbuckle, and then the second one
was the face first and he was the one who

(14:08):
did it the best. Jeff Jarrett couldn't do it. The
misssures Hell can't do it. He can't do a damn thing.
But do you know the three famous people I can
name that Canyon trained as wrestlers.

Speaker 4 (14:26):
I can name the young bucks.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
I believe we're trained by him, but I wouldn't say
they're like probably the most famous.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well, they would be the most famous. That's two of them.
So there's one more.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
I don't know the last woman.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Dariel.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
I couldn't tell you.

Speaker 5 (14:44):
Brian Cage interesting, Oh okay, yeah, I just saw an
interview about that.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah. And so in the in the nineties to early
two thousands, there was a wrestling game was like on
a disc. It was all tech based that you can
get for a PC like a Microsoft PC, and it
was called WLS and you would put together your card

(15:11):
and then it would generate your car to give you
how everything happened. It was really cool. We used to
do e feds all the time back then, using this
as a system, and in between it would give you
different facts about real wrestlers. It'd be like, mister j
L's actually Jerry Lynn. Mister uh well, one of the
fun facts. And this is not meant to be controversial.

(15:35):
It is like it said, it is known that Raven
is actually homosexual. Well, if you ever watched the Dark
Side of the Ring with Canyon and some interviews with Raven,
you'll find out that when Canyon moved across the United
States between wrestling gigs, he had a lot of his
adult material in his moving basket above his car. What

(15:59):
he got to his play it's spilled over and his
brothers found it and they're like, what's all this, And
so he blames it on Raven. He said, Raven must
have ribbed me. This was a joke, and so he called.
He called Raven right away and he said Raven, look,
I'm I'm gay. And Raven's like okay, and he's like,
so you don't carry He's like, no, I don't carry,

(16:20):
you're my friend. So Raven took that heat, not necessarily heat.
I would call luke warm, but that followed his career
for a while. He became like an underground rumbling there's
your canyon moment of the day, and so he was like, yeah,
He's like, if it's gonna protect you from your family,
I'll take care.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
Of it fair enough, even being a stand up dude.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Hell you, Yeah, I should asked him about that, but
I didn't really realize at the time. But anyways, so
back on the subject of our UH stars who weren't
really pushed as much, so person that I want to
throw into there, who they still the chance I'll say that,
But the first one I'm gonna say is Ricochet.

Speaker 4 (17:04):
I'm gonna be honest with you, guys.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
I feel like he was one of the best that
I had seen between Lucia Underground, between his work in Japan.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
Even some of his WWE stuff was still good, but
it felt like a neutered version of Ricochet.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
And that kind of did bother me to see it
that way, because I mean, seeing Prince Puma back when
Lucia Underground was still a thing, man, that was incredible,
and then you see these talents kind of going to
waste and not doing anything. Really, I think the last
thing that he did in WWE is he was like
a speed champion or something. I barely think he got

(17:36):
what tag titles and maybe then you're continental if that.
I don't even know if he got that, honestly, but
it kind of bothered me just to see like this
guy had so much potential. It was so incredible, and
WWE snatched him up just so they could sit him
on a shelf and say, Okay, nobody else can have you.
Now we're going to make sure that nobody else is
going to be able to push you for this entire time.

(17:59):
They can't use him against us because we have you.
That's all they really did with him. It bugged me
so much inside. I still get really annoyed just thinking
about it, because he was such a star with so
much promise, and I wish they would have just let
him be him and really be the star that he
could have been.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
Any thoughts goes.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Uh, you want to take it for cereal.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
I've seen a lot of Ricochet.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
Definitely an insanely talented dude, and I feel like someone
of his caliber, I think it's gonna be a little
hard for him to thrive in an environment like the
WWE because you know, it's still kind of the big
man's game there. You don't really have a whole lot
of divisions for him to wrestle in outside of like Conn.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
Nettle and you know us and all that.

Speaker 5 (18:54):
And I think his move to ae W was a
really smart one in the sense of, like, Okay, you
are now in an environment where you can get you
get to thrive in the way that you should.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
Now I don't know.

Speaker 5 (19:06):
How he's being used there right now, so it's a
little it's still a hazy area for me. But everything
I've seen in Ricochet has been impressive. I mean, the
dude does things that as I've heard the Undertaken say it,
and if you see them do it, it looks like
stuff straight out of the video game. And he does
it flawlessly, and he has a great look.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
You know. It's just I feel the WWE definitely tends to.

Speaker 5 (19:37):
Mistreat a lot of talent by not giving them any
type of platform to like showcase their skills or limiting
what they can do.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
I would agree with you on that. I feel like
that's the basis of this this obvious conversation that we're
having for this podcast. I would like to say that Ricochet.
I saw him back in like twenty fifteen. I started
studying independent wrestlers who I thought were going to break
through the bubble, and minus one wrestler, everybody I predicted

(20:14):
went to WWE, and that one wrestler's Ar Fox, and
ar Fox is just as amazing as Ricochet. He's just
a little bit older, and his build is and is
exactly flattering, but he can do some amazing things. So
with that being said, his matches with will Osprey, some
of the ones from the past in Japan and things

(20:37):
like that, we're a little too cartoony, they were a
little too they're indiish, that's fair, honest. Yes, yes, they
did way too many high spots, but you know, the
guy is like talented out the frame. They thought that
they had the next Ray Mysterio on him and they
tried to definitely WWE him. When he was first introduced

(20:58):
to WWUE audiences in NXT, they introduced him as Trevor Man,
his real name, like, oh here's Trevor Mann. You might
know him as Ricochet, and I was like, Trevor Man
means nothing to people. Ricochet means something to people. If
you have one hundred thousand followers who know you as
Ricochet and zero followers is Trevor Man, you're starting from

(21:21):
nothing or you're starting from something. And so they went
with the Ricochet, which I liked. And you can't I
don't think you can actually trademark that because it's a word.
It's like trademarking tree, you know. So the matches he
had were great. Some of the people he put over
were not so great. I think that he was definitely

(21:45):
a wasted talent. But at least he got miss Irvin
and she's really hot and good for you, Ricochet, God
bless you. She's so beautiful. Seriously, you know the way
I like him have Also, I will say that with

(22:05):
he being in AEW, they need to concentrate on his strengths.
He does definitely need to work on his promo skills
because his promos are mediocre best, they're not great. I
think that he could have a strong promo if he
actually concentrates on it a little bit more. He does
that he could be pushed up into the upper echelon
like will Osprey is. It wouldn't hurt for him to

(22:28):
put on about fifteen more pounds. I know it might
limit his aerial ability, but not every move needs to
be a high spot. And if he did what WW
did with him and not make every move his high spot,
he's going to be okay. So that's what I want
to see for him. I just think that, like the
sky's the limit.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
All right, fair enough, I do agree.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
However, I do have one thing to say about that,
and that is they could give him just another mouthpiece,
really and have him go back to the Puma gimmick
and it would actually work.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
I feel like, you know, Prince Puma in Luca Underground,
he was pretty well received at the time. I thought
he was fine at the time. You know, not everybody
really needs to be a mouthpiece, but to have a
good mouthpiece, you know, if they were to stick somebody
like Hayman or MVP with him, it could work pretty well,
I will say. But not to take away from what
you're saying, his promo work definitely needed some help for sure.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Well, here's a good, good trivia question for you guys then,
or not trivia question, But who do you make his mouthpiece?
Because MVP, if you're gonna image Bobby Lashley and Shelton Benjamin,
you don't have room in your stable for Ricochet. Now,
if Armando Alejandro Alessandro is still floating around somewhere in

(23:44):
the ethos of the world and he's not signed to WWE,
that could be your mouthpiece right there. I mean, I
don't know very much, or he swears strictly goes over,
which will turn it turn into an internal battle between

(24:05):
Bobby Lashley and Strickland over who's the real leader. In
the meantime, Prince Nana takes over Ricochet. What do you
think of that?

Speaker 4 (24:13):
Guys can actually work a little bit.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
With Ricochet.

Speaker 5 (24:20):
I think it would probably be best if they just gave
him a valet that core too, you know, like.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Because you don't.

Speaker 5 (24:31):
Necessarily need to have like the promoter there, but you
give him. I don't know, and I hate saying this,
but some eye candy to go with the gimmick.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
It's like, cool, you have two people that can get
over you know.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
The perfect person for that, ever, since they split up,
would be Britt Baker. She has a poison tongue that would.

Speaker 4 (24:54):
Be really interesting.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Honestly, now that I think about it, Britt Baker would
be perfect.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
For that, especially the way she like, yeah, she can
get other people's skin. I think that Britt Baker would
be the perfect person, and then that sets up a
feud with Adam Cole. Those could be good matches. If
Adam Cole could ever get healthy, that could be really awesome.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
Actually, yeah, I could see that.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
But yeah, moving on, we don't need to stick on
Ricochet for much longer.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
Gardner, who you got next?

Speaker 3 (25:21):
Man?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
All right, so he's back on TV, but he was
on heatus for almost ten years. And I think that
this guy was supposed to be pushed to the heavens,
except they dropped him in a dumpster and said, and
I'm gonna go with Carlito, and I'm gonna tell you why.
First of all, signing Carlito was not only just a
move because of his talent, but it was also a
move because of the political agreement with Puerto Rico. Now

(25:48):
the agreement with Puerto Rico, the WWC, Carlos Cologne owns it.
That's the father of Carlito. He basically would hide talent
down there. If Vince in the nineties needed to rehab
somebody or get them ready for TV, if he wasn't
using Memphis and didn't want to put him on ECWTV,
he would ship them down to Puerto Rico and let

(26:09):
them work in front of these large stadium on audiences. Okay,
so his liaison in the nineties was Savio Vega and
a lot of the people that they brought up just
they fizzled out, but then they struck gold with Carlito. Now,
let's look at something. Carlito's debut on both Raw and SmackDown,

(26:31):
even though it's the same company, it's just different shows
on each show. Didn't he beat John Cena for a
title on each? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
I feel like he has.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, I believe it was US title of one inter
Continental on the other, and.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Then yeah, I remember him being to US champion for
a while.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
Does anybody know why his title is called or why
his finishers called the backstabber?

Speaker 5 (26:56):
I mean, apart from the fact that he drops you
on your back on his knees.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
No math and he bruiser. Brody was killed in WWC,
his father's organization, stabbed in the kidneys by Jose Gonzales.
They say that his father was always in on it.

(27:23):
You can listen to dutch Man Tel, you can listen
to all these famous podcasters and they will tell you
I mean Tony Outlets will tell you the story that
Tony Alis had to sleep on the beach that night
because he was afraid that he was going to get
killed too. It's called the backstabber because that was the
move that was used to kill Bruiser Brody and his
father's organization. Let that one sink in for a second.

(27:48):
The guy had all the talent in the world. He
was supposed to be basically the third in the line
of the John Cena Randy Orton, Who's the next guy
kind of thing. You had Batista in there. Carlito had
everything but his attitude and knowing that he could go
back down to Puerto Rico and rain in hell as
opposed to serve in heaven in WWE is what made

(28:11):
him so dispensable to them. And that's when they turned
him into a comedic character. He was supposed to be
a heal. He went all across the country, dressing as
a goof and everything else, but he got overdoing it.
And my favorite was when he came to Memphis and
he came out as Elvis and instead of everybody booing him,
they were just chanting his name over and over, and

(28:32):
he got mad and stomped off the stomped off the stage.
Carlito is incredibly talented. If you could see what he
could do in the ring, it's amazing. And the fact
that we let ten years of his life go by
without touching him the right way and letting him have
the proper push that he needed. He could have been
a main inventor. He really could have been a main inventor,

(28:53):
especially in the stale twenty tens. I mean, when he
and Punk could have worked a program, or when Punk
was gone, Carlita could have been something that infused something
instead of just John Cena, John Cena, Randy York, John Cena.
He could have done a lot of things. There's a

(29:14):
lot of programs that he could have worked that there's
a lot of misprograms that he could have been part of.
And I really feel that his talent level, I mean, honestly,
don't base him on what he is today. He's almost
my agent. Look, I'm almost fifty. If he can still
go it, he looks that great at his age. I
don't think he's quite as old as me. But to
be in that great to shape and still go the

(29:35):
way he does, that's pretty damn amazing. And so to
think what could have happened for ten to twelve year
absence and the way they wanted him originally if you
just didn't have a bad attitude and the sky was
a limited limit was the sky? What do you guys think, Dan?

Speaker 5 (29:57):
From when I saw Carl No, I very much enjoyed
the character of being like the cool guy. He definitely
was over even as a heel. It's kind of hard
to dislike the dude. I mean, from the hair to
the way he carried himself, he just kind of had
like he owned the cool guy angle. And he's one

(30:20):
of those guys you could love to hate or just
hate that you love him so much. He had great
talent in the ring. Seeing him now, I mean, he
looks fantastic, Like as you stated before, he looks incredible,
like better than he did when he first showed up. Honestly,
I don't know why he's like a fix to a
stable right now, though, I feel like it should definitely

(30:42):
just let him be his own wrestler instead of kind
of aligning himself with the faction that's eventually just going
to fizzle out anyway.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
You know, you've got a really good point there. He's
not actually part of Judgment Day. And what people don't realize,
and I've said this, like on Wade Keller's podcast, is
let's take some stock here. Damian Priest is fighting the
Judgment Day. Damien Priest is Puerto Rican. What is Carlito,
who's technically not part of Judgment Day Porto Rican? Exactly?

(31:17):
So I think that there's some kind of internal thing.
I hope that they would use that for some kind
of like turn for something to you know, use that with.
I'd like to see some gold around his pace. I'd
love to actually see him whin. I hate money in
the bank because I think that is the worst thing.
I think that killed the undertitles. And that's a whole
other conversation for another day. But I'd like to see
him win money the bank and win the one of

(31:39):
the straps one time, even if it's for a day,
I'd love to see it. So, all right, who's up next?

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, I guess I could go real quick and pass
off to Dariel next afterwards. So all right, this next
guy that I'm going to talk about, you know, came
from Japan. He was a huge deal over there, came
to WWE, and then once again was New Yart, and
I'm talking about nobody other than Shinsky Nakamura.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Oh God.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
I honestly really loved seeing his work in NXT. I
loved seeing some of his past stuff from Japan. My god,
that guy can work. Being the king of strong style
they meant it. He was in w JP or NJPW's.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
Or god, I don't even remember what they call it.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Title.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
It's like IWGP Junior Heavyweight Champion at like twenty three
years old. They put the strap on him kind of young,
and he held it for a while, but they really
put trust in it, because you could see why coming
to America and doing WWE thing, it's the WWE version
of Shinsk and the American audience doesn't get to see

(32:49):
it the same way. I remember so many people in
comment sections on Facebook and stuff saying he doesn't even wrestle,
He's not, you know, doing this right, And I'm sitting
here like he's doing it the way that he can
hand because WWE is not letting him have matches the
way that he was able to before. He used to
be a very hard hitting person that I would have
compared a little bit to Dynamite Kid in the way

(33:10):
that he was just stiff, but not stiff hurting people,
but he made it look like, Wow, that actually seems
like it really hurt to deal.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
With, and he's just too hard type wrestling.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, you see what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
And it just sucks that they have to new to
these guys to be WWE, a fied or whatever you
want to call it. And I'm not somebody who necessarily
just hates ww and everything they do, but I really
get annoyed when somebody has a style and it is
so over with the crowd and everything, and then they
get to the big league and the big league basically
looks at them and says, no, you have to do
it our way because this is what works, and it
doesn't work for them. It really still doesn't work for Shinske.

(33:48):
He's not quite the same at best. He's kind of
a mid carter now. I haven't seen him get a
real title push ever. I think he had a match
with Sena and got himself a title match, and then
after that because he almost really hurt seen it in
that match, he basically got pushed back down again.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Well, he had he headlined WrestleMania against aj Styles and
he lost after he won the Royal Rumble and he
eliminated Roman reigns and everybody was behind him.

Speaker 6 (34:14):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Legend says that New Japan when he wrestled brock Lessener,
he actually knocked one of brock Lessener's teeth out.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
I could see that party gay But yeah, so I
believe Shinsky Nakamura he deserves more of a push and
I hate that we're probably never going to see it
until he leaves for maybe in JPW maybe AW again.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Who knows, but you'll probably go to Noah.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Maybe I could see him going to Noah. And he
did have that match with I believe it was Mooda
he retired him there.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
I thought, yes he did, and that was a fantastic match.
And it's like, if you actually want to see what
shins K Nakamura can do, you want to watch that,
but we can't scrape the scum off of our tongues
after watching the fact that he had to job cleanly
to gender mahaal mm hm, that's what killed his career

(35:06):
and that's why no And then they put him with
Rick Boogs and I remember, like listeners to this channel
and I'm sorry, I'm gonna tell you you're stupid, You're
an idiot. All the people who would go to the
mail bag and say, oh, I think Rick Boogs can
be a world champion, Well, I think you're in bread. Okay, Dariel,

(35:27):
you want to disagree with me? Anybody want to say
anything about that, Like any idiot who thought that he
the guy was muscular and he had a mustache. He
looked like a poor man's Rick Steiner and had a
third of the skill.

Speaker 5 (35:43):
I'm not super familiar with Rick Boogs, and good for you.
I've only seen a little bit of Shitzkate, but what
I've seen of him was very impressive.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
I loved his look. I love like just.

Speaker 5 (35:57):
How he conducted himself in the ring. I mean clearly
he as you say he was. He was wwe fied
or however you want to like call it, because I
feel like if you got something called strong style, oh
I want to see somebody get knocked like not you know, hurt,
but I want to see that hard hitting style.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
More. Do you want to see some Stan Hanson Bruce
of Brodie.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
Don't you? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (36:21):
You know, I want to see that Stu hard esque
type of Oh yeah, we're gonna we're gonna make it
look solidly convincing. You might even feel it a little bit,
you know, because if that's gonna be your angle, I
want to see that that angle sold very well. Like it,
you know when people call it like task a human

(36:42):
suplex machine, and he lived up to it because he
chucked people around the ring, and it's like, yep, that dude
is definitely machine about chucking people around the ring. I
like seeing that, you know, so I definitely would like
to do some more research on him and just see
like what he had going for on before he came
to the West.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Fair enough, if I could recommend anything n XT watch
his match with Sammy Zain. The crowd was going nuts
for it that night. That was the first time I've
ever heard of WWE crowd chanting fight forever.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
And then I will say the Noah match.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
I still haven't seen it, but I've heard incredible things
about it, so I still need to see it myself.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
On Yeah, that was that was insane. It's it's just
crazy like what they did in the ring, and it's
or look at Wressell Kingdom. I think eleven and I
think it was him versus AJ Styles, and AJ Styles
was the king of the Bull Club, our leader of
the Bull Club at one point, and he like gets

(37:42):
bouncing the ropes and does the finger and points like
the gun like aj Styles does. And Nakamura catches the
bullet in the air which is not real, and puts
it in his mouth and eats it. It's amazing, amazing.
He he is, like you said, if any guy who

(38:03):
could knock out one of brock Lessner's teeth reportedly is
you know, pretty hardcore. And then you have him do
a solid job to General Hall, a guy that wasn't
worth he was he wasn't worth a rental car.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
There.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to get into that
right now, but we'll go into like champions who never
should have been champions at another show. I don't know
if you guys want to be on that show, but
I would love to have you both on that show.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
All right, sounds good?

Speaker 1 (38:41):
But yeah, moving on from Shinski Dariel, who's your next man?

Speaker 3 (38:44):
My next one is Kick Cash? Nice pick Kick Cash.

Speaker 5 (38:51):
Is legendary, I mean, you know, getting it his start
and like the Smoky Mountain, you know, being a tap
team partner with Ricky Morton and such like, dude had
a history behind him and then moving on to ECW
and really getting established there, and yeah, you know, he

(39:12):
was definitely like on the the lookalike train, which you know,
you get a number of those wrestlers and they just
kind of go.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Ahead and run with it. But I mean he owned it.

Speaker 5 (39:21):
He killed it, like I think seeing and I have
been watching a lot of his matches leading up to this,
just you know, see what else he had going for
him and the guy despite being of a shorter stature
because he was like what five eight five nine and
he wasn't like a heavyweight. But the thing is, he

(39:43):
went aware that he cleared about two hundred. Okay, he
cleared two hundred pretty close, like evenly. He had to
wrestle big because he knew kind of industry he was in.
You know, if he's going to go do you know,
big promotions, they're not going to look at him suit

(40:07):
for very long because he's not a big guy. But
he had because ECW really just gave people chances regardless
of like their size and stature or whatever, he was
able to really showcase his abilities in the ring, one
as a high flyer, which was something I wasn't really
prepared to see going back to watching like old tapes

(40:27):
of ECW and such, this dude really put his body
on the line for a lot of a lot of
his matches like the moon salts, the the twisting sentons
in the air. You know, he had a lot of
crazy athleticism. But the other thing is that as he
moved between promotions, like he still carried a lot of

(40:50):
his ECW style with them, but he also started mixing that,
you know with the Mitst martial arts and you know,
putting submissions and such.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
So as he got older, he solidified his style more
to be ground based.

Speaker 5 (41:05):
And in addition to that, I mean the guy had
you know, good look overall and yeah, pretty alright my skills.
The guy was a heat generator. He knew how to
just talk it and really get under people's skin. Like
when he showed up in WWE, I mean he won
the cruiseweight title. Dude walked around like he was the

(41:25):
baddest of the bad and that right there shows like
this guy has something that could be more than just
a cruiserweight because once again he had to learn to
wrestle big.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
When you watch him.

Speaker 5 (41:39):
Against like Vic Grimes and you see him against like C. W. Anderson,
and you see him against Dustin Rose and TNA like
he had he had to wrestle those guys like he
was their size, or at the very least rustle in
the way that he could take them down convincingly. And
he definitely had his fair share of matches where he

(42:00):
you know, he gave it us all. But eventually, you know,
he had to like fall to the big dude. And
even in his interviews, his philosophy is that, like, it's
not something, it's not very believable to see like a
little dude beat a big guy, and so he had
to make his style work to that.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
And I very much think that if they had.

Speaker 5 (42:24):
Honed in on that, I mean that dude could have
been walking around with the US title, the incontinental title
like he had tag championships with Jamie Noble, like, it
wouldn't have been hard to see him in a heavyweight class.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
I mean, look at Crispin, Juan Eddie Guerrero. They were
not very tall dudes at all.

Speaker 5 (42:43):
I mean they were jacked, which helped, and he definitely
bulked up over the years. I see a lot of
it is that they kind of newted his style when
he got there, like he didn't seem to like have
the same level of high risk or intensity that he
had from like the past promotions he worked for. And

(43:05):
I think that they kind of squandered him on that one.
And if I recall correctly, he got fired for like
smoking weed in Canada or something.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Which it's primarily more legal there than it is here
in the United States, which is kind of funny, but.

Speaker 5 (43:21):
Right, And I'm pretty sure he said something about that.
He was like, wait, what, like this is the thing.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Well, it's legality of the company, which is where they
want to sting you. But didn't he also have a
cup of coffee in WCW before they shut down, like
real quick, I think that we're basing it off my
I'm fifty years old memory that basically I believe. I

(43:48):
think he had like one or two appearances on WW
and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Speaker 5 (43:52):
And yeah, he Jason Jet watched that match like.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Right before we did this on WSW.

Speaker 5 (44:00):
Yeah, he debuted as Cash just cash spelled correctly see
a s H His best match.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
His best match was against Rhino for the TV title
in ECW. The way they searched the ring that was amazing.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
That was the mass started on the outside of the ring.
Really yes, but that I watched that right before this
as well. I did a lot of research before I
got here.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
But you know, just going to WWE, you're too small kid.
You don't have anything kid, you know, that's that's sad.
And the word kid he should have you know, just
went to cash or something else there. There should have
been a dynamic change in his name that would have
helped him. I believe a lot more because like the

(44:51):
one two three kid six x POC whatever, like he
became x POC. But if he came back from w
CW from six to one two three kid, the word kid,
it's like, you're a fully grown man. You can't you
can't do that. It's like boys to men, should they
just be men? Now? That's your man?

Speaker 4 (45:15):
Geriatrics.

Speaker 5 (45:16):
At this point, I think the thing is is like
even if I mean Sean Michaels is still the Heartbreak Kid,
He's still HBK.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
Man is in his fifties, he's still HBK.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
You know, HBM At this point, HBG.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Is it's the it's his persona and true.

Speaker 5 (45:38):
The thing is like when you have a last name
like Cash, because that's actually his last name. His name
is David Cash. You have a last name like Cash,
it's kind of hard to pass up the opportunity to
just run with whatever goes with that. And I mean
clearly he was, you know, based off a Kid Rock
dude who is a grown man still, you know, going

(46:00):
by kid Rock, but it's like whatever, like that's his thing.
And the promo he cut after he won the cruiseweight
Championship in the WWE, he's been interviewed by Funaki. He
refers to himself as the Notorious k I D. Which
I'm like, Okay, that's sick.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
You know, it's funny because I remember him in TNA
during the pay per view days of the like nine
dollars every week pay per view, and when I was
like emailing Jeremy Borash and Bob Ryer ideas every week.
And I just remember like some of the stuff I've
seen like going on, and I remember Kid Cash like

(46:42):
cut a promo that I just hated and it was
on Goldilocks and I can't repeat it on here, but
you can look it up, like the Kid Cash promo
on Goldielocks and then how she gets him back on it.
So because it was pay per view, they could swear,
so they could say dirty things and I can't say
like on our paper or on our podcast.

Speaker 4 (47:06):
All right, fair enough?

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yeah with that, Gardner, you want to start off with
your final person.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
My final person is the most underpushed person that is
personally like in the company right now, that has more
talent and more charisma than anybody else. And I just
feel that they've really fumbled the ball. The first universal
champlain that's Ben Valor as Prince Devitt. He's the guy
who started Bullet Club. If you didn't have Bullet Club,

(47:33):
you wouldn't have all elite wrestling. The man exudes talent.
He can come out as the Demon, he can come
out as Sweeney Todd, he can come out as so
many different versions of who he is. And to borrow
from you, Dariel, he's been neutered. That man's in fantastic shape. Okay,
he's two hundred pounds soaking wet. He could do anything

(47:55):
in the ring. I put him in the same class
as Benoa and see him punk as people who are
small but could do it all, and people who won
world titles, and probably in Vince's regime, should not have
won world titles, and yet he has clean victories over

(48:19):
both Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns in the same area
to be the first universal champion, just to be stripped
of it because Seth hurt him and his career has
never been the same. The guy has. He drips talent,
he drips charisma, he drips everything that you need in

(48:42):
a ring. He's smart, he can do it. And then
he's stuck in a faction just to put over Damian Priest,
who I think also is talented and I'm not taking
away from him and Carlito, who we've also spoken about,
but are we evating the talent or is the talent
de evaluating you? And as Jim Cornett, who I'm a

(49:08):
fan of who lives here in Louisville also says, is
the finn baler or is the pin baler? He always
has to take the bite. This guy's done more in
the ring than half these people have done in their
whole career. He owned New Japan. He formed Bullet Club
when he was a junior heavyweight. No one ever lets

(49:31):
anybody lead Japan as a junior heavyweight, and he never
declared himself as a heavyweight and if he leaves and
he goes back to Japan, he will be declared a heavyweight.
It's really weird how they do that stuff. But the
fact is brass tacks and baseball basket When we get
down to it, this guy could do everything in the
worrying and if he goes to all elite that's gonna

(49:54):
be insane. But if people also look at it, how
many people who are part of the Bullet Club are
in WWE now? And will he mastermind a redirection of
the Bullet Club and then ballor club comes together at
stuttering guys again? So thoughts, well, you are right because

(50:20):
he did form the Bullet Club, and wasn't it Gallows
and Anderson who were also a part of it at the time? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Where they Yeah, exactly whatever happened to them at this point?
I feel like they fell off again, which is sad
honestly because Gallow has always been relatively talented. He just
doesn't really get the push because wasn't he like Festus
at one point?

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Yes, and Anderson is actually super fast, Yes, yeah, yeah,
and Anderson is like super talentedged but.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Yeah, it's it's sad to see when God Vince's regime
used to really like to take people that were really
famous from other company and kind of just burn them
a little bit. It seemed like if you were made
somewhere else and they brought you in where it's WCW
or wherever, if they couldn't rebrand you to be something
special that oh yeah, the crowd's never seen this before

(51:13):
quote unquote. Then it was okay, which is gonna kind
of make him look stupid and then send him on
his way because WWE is the only way sort of
thing they wanted to push their own homegrowns and half
the time it didn't really help out that much. That's
something I really despised about Vince for a while, or
things like did you ever notice that certain female wrestlers
use TNA's Top Stars finishers?

Speaker 2 (51:33):
I mean I pointed out for a while.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah, And I believe you may have started the conversation
for me when all of a sudden seeing the styles
class used by certain female wrestlers and it's like, wow,
I wonder.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
Why that is.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Vince the misogynty continues sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
You know, he wanted diminish people's finishers from other territory,
or not territories, but other other companies and make it
a woman's Finisher and it Vince burn in Hell.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Yeah, I can kind of agree with that, but yeah,
that was just kind of a crappy time for what
it was. But yeah, I do agree. Baler is very underrated,
under pushed. He is somebody who's deserved so much more.
He's able to play a theatrical character. He's able to
go out there and just be a little closer to
human being himself, but he can also pull out that
whole demon thing. And you know what, I'm going to

(52:23):
buy into as much as I bought into The Undertaker,
you know what. No, he's not an actual dead man,
but I'm going to watch it and be very entertained
by it. It's because it's him and he knows how
to pull it off very very well. Dariel, you have
any thoughts on Baler?

Speaker 5 (52:38):
Honestly, Baler showed up around time where I mean I
was still out of the loop, so I'm gonna have
to do some catching up on him. From what I've
seen of him, Like, he has a great look and
I'm still a little like iffy about the double stomp
super like the Finisher or whatever. It's just I don't know,
like you got Swerve running it. He's doing it. I

(53:01):
don't know how many more people are going to do it.
I think if I.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Watched Star.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
Yeah, and it does work better for like lighter wrestlers.

Speaker 5 (53:14):
I think it's a little bit less harsh on the
body from what I can tell. But I have to
do some catching up on him because I don't really
have a super strong opinion. All I know is he's
like he was one third of like Judgment Day, which,
to be honest, he did seem a bit overshadowed by
them because you got Priest who looks fantastic, has just

(53:40):
just owns the whole look and everything, and then he
got Ray Ripley who was also kind of a machine.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
So he kind of just fell to the wayside with
those two.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Agreed, agreed definitely, and that's that's that's the out of
his part. Because then the like JD McDonough I think
is a huge talent, and I feel that like, because
he's part of Judgment Day, he's he's fell to the
wayside because he could do so much more, and that's

(54:14):
like a just a throw in the fact that like
he's jobbed out to our truth. I know our truth
is like special and you know, teaches people, and he's
older than me. He's like fifty five, in great shape.
But the fact is he doesn't need to keep taking
w's over current talent. You're bearing current talent. Dadie McDonough

(54:37):
has talent if you watch his matches with Ilia dragonoff
Holy Biscuits, trust me. So all right, who's this and Dariel?

Speaker 4 (54:52):
You want to finish off your list, Bud.

Speaker 5 (54:54):
Yeah, I'll finish off here with Mark Jindrak. So, Mark Jendrek,
I saw a little bit of his work in the ring,
and at first he really just seemed like, you know,
your your typical kind of not super tall guy, but

(55:18):
obviously one of the VINS hopefuls. You know, Oh he's tall,
he's got you know, great look, good physique. But he
didn't stand out a whole lot until I started looking
into him, because I was like, whatever happened to that dude?
And so I remember that he was wrestling in Mexico.
So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna look out all

(55:39):
this stuff from Mexico, and what I saw blew my mind.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
I'm like, what.

Speaker 5 (55:44):
First of all, the main thing that stood out to
me is his vertical. The dude is a human grasshopper
to see guys in an electric chair setup, and he
jumped up and drop kicks them, not in the gut,
in the chest, like we're talking after very very clearly,

(56:11):
like you know, five nine, five ten, still not exactly
like when you stack two dudes are roughly about the
same height on top of each other. That's pretty tall.
And then I would see him come from the ramp
and jump across the ropes and sail all the way

(56:34):
across the ring with a cross body block from like
the end of the ramp, not even when the mat starts.
I'm like, wait, what do you mean? I'm like, this
dude is doing this? Why is he Why wasn't getting pushed?
And apparently he just wasn't allowed to be him, He
wasn't allowed to do the things that he was good at.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
And I'm like, this dude is insane.

Speaker 7 (56:57):
How did you just let this slip through the cracks?
I'm like that that right there is like I don't
know what his his my skills were like, but whatever,
throw them with the manager.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
That's what they always had player for that time.

Speaker 6 (57:11):
So right, So the thing is that he was in
a vignette for Evolution because there was like some issue
at the time where like I guess Batista wasn't like
quite ready to be like he was out or something
or other, so they filmed a vignette with Mark Jindrack,

(57:32):
but apparently even Triple As didn't want him in the thing.

Speaker 5 (57:35):
He's like, you know, he's not going to be in
an Evolution and I'm like, what why not? Like I
mean clearly, yeah, you know, he's got Randy Yorton and
he probably would have overshadowed Randy, so you never know,
it probably was like the Orton last name has weight
jin drag.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Maybe not, but seeing that dude, I'm like.

Speaker 5 (57:56):
Huh, they really just let that dude go, and you know,
he went to Mexico and did his thing, and honestly,
I would I mean, granted, you know, he's an older
guy now, so he's probably not jumping nearly like seven
feet up in the air and drop kicking people, but whatever,
he's still I'm sure he still has it.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
If he's still wrestling. It would be great to.

Speaker 5 (58:18):
See that dude come back, because that's a level of
athleticism you don't normally see from people, especially someone in
his stature.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Now, what I'll say is like I remember he tagged
him with Shat O'Hare, and I thought that guy was
going to be the big one and I thought he
would be part of evolution. But they know picking Jendrek was.
I mean, he had everything they said that he just

(58:50):
felt like in his mind he was not ready for it.
That's kind of sad, Like I hate for eddy for
any talent to like go into a situation where they
feel they're just not ready for it and basically be like, yeah,
assing their pants before they go out because they're just

(59:12):
not ready for it. So I don't know what it is.
I don't know the true story. I don't know the background,
but you have a really good pick there, because didn't
you go on to do the MTB like Wrestling X
or something like that.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
I'm not sure about that part. I can't.

Speaker 5 (59:31):
I can't really corroborate that one because I didn't follow
up on anything past like the stuff he did in
the early two thousands in like WW and then like
the stuff he did in Mexico. But I mean, I remember,
you know the Reflection of Perfection, which I'm like, yo, bro,

(59:53):
that that Moniker with this look. Why weren't you pushing.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
This because wwe you weren't Triple h. You weren't John Cena,
you weren't you know whatever. At the time, you know,
they only just had.

Speaker 5 (01:00:08):
A monopoly on it, you know, like they had a
monopoly on the industry. Because if that dude had any
other place to go, I mean, I guess he could
have went to TNA, But like that dude had any
other place to go.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
That is a world champion right there.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Well, I think that he has won like many championships
down in Mexico. It's it's just a different situation, like
moving to Mexico. I've been to Mexico many times. Have
you ever been to Mexico, either of you? Nope, Okay,
it's I've been to Tijuana, which is a very scary city.
And basically they always say, like, you know, you bring

(01:00:48):
two IDs with you. You have one in your wallet and
one in your your sock so they can't get it
away from you and you cross the border. And the
first if you walk across the border from Tijuana to
actually where you're going to go party on Revolution Street
is a to militarized zone where there's high rises that

(01:01:10):
are vacant graffiti. Everything's crazy. I don't know why anybody
would be there. So if Mark Jindrak went down there
and he made money, that means he went to Mexico
City and he went to the epicenter of where you
can make money, and so you can live down there

(01:01:32):
for fifty cents on the dollar for American money, especially
back then. So he made a lot of money, and
he's probably living like a king, I get it. But
he could have still been part of evolution.

Speaker 5 (01:01:47):
So and I think a lot of it may have
added something to do with the fact that, like, there's
a there's a guy whose last name carries weight. He's
what like a fourth generation or third generation wrestler, and
Randy Orton, and so I think that's kind of what
probably killed his momentum, is just the fact that they're like, well,
we can't really throw this other guy under the bus,

(01:02:11):
you know, because the Ortons would have probably had something
to say about it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
But yeah, I mean it was.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
But they replaced with Batista, so we can argue that
all day.

Speaker 5 (01:02:23):
Yeah, but Batista had this look to him that is marketable,
you know, the animal he looks primal, He wrestled Primal
and he very much looked like the bodyguard of the group.
It's like you got the three A listers and then
he got the muscle.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
But Reverend Darryl testify what was his original gimmick Batista exactly.
So he wasn't supposed to be there. He was not
supposed to be there. It was when Jindrak bailed out
that they put him in.

Speaker 5 (01:03:02):
Which I mean, I guess is the best thing that
ever happened to him, really, at least Batista anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
No shyser, So who's next?

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
All right?

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
So mine will be the last one, as I believe,
that's three for all of us, correct, that's correct, all right,
So my final one, and I'll be honest, I'm kind
of calling audible here, guys, but I've been ad living
this whole thing anyways. But last person for me, I'm
gonna say, mister j L.

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
Jerry Lynn. I think was under pushed.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
And that's an understatement.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
Yeah, he's thinking about it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
It's like it just kind of hit me while I
was sitting here that he has been in many, many promotions,
and I remember seeing certain Dark Side of the Ring episodes,
certain interviews.

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
Apparently he's been a pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
Good mentor to a lot of the guys while they've
been up and coming. There was people from XBW even
that talked about you know what.

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
He was backstage with me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
I remember Rob Black was yelling at me for taking
a chair shot and putting my hand up because he
wanted me to just take it straight to the face.
And JL was the guy that came up behind him
afterwards after he walked away, talked to me. He's like, hey, man,
you did it right. You protected yourself. You took the
shot and it looked great. Don't worry about it. He
doesn't know what he's talking about. He was the voice

(01:04:17):
of reason in certain areas, and he was very talented
in WCW. I mean I remember seeing him as mister
JL masked up in certain matches from I believe. I'd
been watching Nitro from nineteen ninety five for a little
bit and he was putting on matches that felt like
a clinic. Honestly, he was doing incredible things and realistically

(01:04:37):
he didn't need to speak because he had the mask on.
He was just, you know, another mysterious figure. You know,
the mask adds that mystique to you. But something that
I remembered thinking about was just I didn't know really
who he was at that point.

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
I know he's now been an ECW champion.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
I believe his highest accolade in WWE was being a
light heavyweight champion or something like that, but that was
and I think he definitely deserved more. I'm not really
sure how good his mike skills really were, but I
know that in ring he was something to be reckoned,
and I really enjoyed watching even a few of his matches.

Speaker 4 (01:05:13):
I'd like to see more as I go.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
On, and realistically just want to go digging through the
past see what I can find.

Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
What do you guys think of Jerry Lynn.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
I loved Jerry Lynn growing up.

Speaker 5 (01:05:25):
I saw him in at the time WWF, and I
remember I loved his theme, So that's part of the
reason why I loved watching him, because I wanted to
hear his theme more that I love that. But as
I've been catching up on wrestling and like going back

(01:05:47):
into the past and seen the humble beginnings of all
my favorite wrestlers, watching him in ECW was pretty awesome.
One of my favorite matches with him is actually Jerry
Lynn versus Taka Michinoku.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
M HM. Those two killed it like it was.

Speaker 5 (01:06:08):
It was a very competitive back and forth match, and
they spared no expense. They left it all in the ring,
and it was great to see something like that and
see what he could do.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
In that environment.

Speaker 5 (01:06:24):
And I mean he had great tattoom matches, you know,
with like Rod Van Damn, Kick Cash, you know, Tommy Dreamer,
Mikey Whipbrack, you know all these, you know names that
came up out of ECW. That dude was very, very talented.
Love seeing him wrestle, and I kind of wish that

(01:06:45):
he was a little younger so he could still be
in the ring doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
So my thoughts about Jerry Lynn, I'll tell you, I
don't know if I saw him first in us w
A or Global. I think I first, excuse me seeing
him in Global Wrestling Federation, which was a short lived
Dallas based promotion Joe Pedsino, But I could be wrong.

(01:07:13):
He was so talented, he was so amazing. He was
I didn't see anything. He was Rob van Dam before
Rob van dam. He could do things that most human
beings couldn't do. But the thing that he did most
importantly is that he sold. He sold. He didn't take

(01:07:36):
a high spot and pop up and be like, Okay,
there's only a couple people that in history that you
could believe that. I didn't believe it in Hogan because
Hogan sucked. He sucked in Ring Hawk from the Road Warriors.
You believe that Nikita kole Off wouldn't take a pile driver,

(01:08:00):
or actually Hawk wouldn't take a pile driver, and Nikita
would take a pile driver. Get up and shake it off.
They're andre like, there are people you didn't sell. Jerry
Lynn was a special, great wrestling human being that taught

(01:08:23):
in the ring and actually made the business better than
people could ever imagine. You know, his first well just
Incredible's first match in ECW was against Jerry Lynn. I
know this is because Justin Incredible and my are friends,

(01:08:48):
and without using names, he tells me like with how
do I say this? People in aw do not want
to listen to agents or listen to anybody who wants

(01:09:10):
to actually help them.

Speaker 5 (01:09:15):
It's kind of sad, Yeah, that they know best type
of mentality exactly, Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:09:26):
The rebellious.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
So yeah, we already we've already gone through this. We
already know what we're doing where we made a company
on our own sort of thing or we're our own
thing type of people. But yeah, we don't need to
dive too much into that. But yeah, jail very special
type of wrestler. Yeah, I think that's it for the
regular episode, guys, so get onto some recommendations. Is October?
What do we got, guys? To start with the gardener?

(01:09:48):
What do you got for us?

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
All right, so we're gonna do a scary movie this month.
I want to do the Monster Squad. We have to
do the Monster Squad because the man who plays the cop,
the African American cop, stan Shaw, and I am so
I love him and both Ben has Nards. That's our thing.

(01:10:16):
Aside from that, you can reach me at one four
four Captain on X.

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
That sounds good. Dariel, what about you, man? What's your
recommendation for the audience?

Speaker 5 (01:10:28):
So I'm not much of a movie guy, but I
will recommend Queen of the Dan, mostly just for the soundtrack.
I think the soundtrack is fantastic and also just rested
past to a Leah. She was taken from this world
way too soon. But I will recommend a video game.
Some people might call it a little controversial in terms

(01:10:49):
of like is a truly a horror game or not.
But Devil May Cry it's an act. It's not like
a horror fed action game. It's fantastic. If you have
a PlayStation two or if you can get a hold
of the collection on the next gen console, definitely play
through the series.

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
You will not regret it, all.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
Right, fair enough?

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
You mind telling the audience how they can reach you
or anything like that.

Speaker 5 (01:11:14):
If you want to reach me, I'm on Instagram. That's
under accel at on City ex c e l A
d N underscore City. I don't really have a whole
lot of social media, but this is the one thing
I checked pretty regularly. So if you ever want to
get a hold of me, so you can reach.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
Me, all right, fair enough?

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
All right, So my recommendations this week, and I'm gonna
have a movie and game.

Speaker 4 (01:11:42):
So the movie that I'm going to say.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
It's kind of a horror movie, but it's not the greatest,
I'm not gonna lie to you. But the thing I
love about it more than anything is the concept realistically,
so movie for me is going to be Stir of
Echo starring Kevin Bacon. That was probably made like late nineties,
maybe early two thousands, but it's not necessarily bad, but
it's not great.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
I just stake it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
Yeah, but I just remembered the concept alone is what
really kind of got me interested in it, just the
idea of, well, I don't really want to give it away.
So anyways, the game that I wanted to recommend so recently,
one of my favorite video games of all time, has
been remastered, Silent Hill two. I will say the original

(01:12:26):
incredible story and it's very well written from beginning to end.
I do highly recommend if you can get a copy
of the original, go through it. It's worth it. But
the remake just came out, I believe as of October eighth,
So if you guys want to give that a playthrough,
let me know how it is, because I honestly don't
want to get it until somebody reviews it for me

(01:12:47):
and lets me know. Hey, it's still good, just as
good as the last because it's full remake, not a remaster.
But yeah, highly recommend both horror titles. And with that,
you guys know how to reach me at Maintens on
Twitter x whatever you want to call it. As usual,
do something nice for somebody you never know who needs it.
And with that we're out.

Speaker 8 (01:13:10):
Thanks for listening to the WWE Podcast. Don't forget to
subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you don't miss
a show, or head to wwepodcast dot com and for
all of these shows ad free, head over to Patreon
dot com slash WWE podcast. Until then, we'll see you

(01:13:31):
next time.