5 YEARS AGO: Special Interview with Chris Van Vliet

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, welcome to the WWE Podcast and extremely special
episode today as Chris Van Vliet joins the show to
talk about his career, how he got started in broadcasting,
growing up as a wrestling fan, who he'd like to interview,
Who he'd like to interview if you got another chance,
And of course we spend a lot of time on
the current product, including his thoughts on Retribution, Raw Underground,

(00:24):
Randy Orton's work. This one is truly an episode you
can't miss, so let's get everything started right now.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to the WWE Podcast, the most passionate and authentic
wrestling analysis on the web. We've got you covered with
every Raw, SmackDown and NXT show, giving you a no
bullk and opinion. We know you love wrestling. We do too,
so let's get this show underway.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
And that's the bottom line. What stone don't steps out?

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Hey guys, Welcome to the WWE Podcast, and boy, I
am I excited for today's episode. Normally this is your
wrestling nostalgia night. Normally we would take that trip down
memory lane.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
We'd put ourselves on.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
The Dolore and make sure that flux capacitor is working
and just go right into a memory lane and we
go down that path of yesteryear. Tonight it's a little
bit different.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
Tonight.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
We've got a very special interview, one that I really
really enjoyed. And I'm not just saying that just because
everyone says that on their shows.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
I did.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
I mean I could have this guy on every week
to talk wrestling, to talk his career, to talk about
interviews he's done. I mean an hour and twenty minutes.
Whatever we talked about talk to four was not enough.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
So this was.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Definitely one we don't have to do again. And if
you haven't checked out Chris van Vliet, by the way,
many of you probably know who he is, but if
you don't go to YouTube and subscribe, man, I mean
you're missing out if you don't. And he has interviews
with everyone, I mean almost anyone you can think of,
John Cena, The Rock, Hulk, Hogan, Peyton Royce, Eric Rowan

(02:09):
as a Lady. He's doing Billy Kay, He's doing Matt
Hardy next week. I mean the list goes on and
on and on. I mean just go to Chris van
Vliet and check out his list. I mean every one
of them is well done. Everyone as professional and it
just he has a way of talking with his guests
that is just it's just conversational. It's not interview like

(02:30):
you're at a job. It's just like you're talking with
somebody that you've known for years. And that's what makes
it very listenable, makes it very fun to watch and
to listen to. He also has a podcast, by the way,
at the Chris Van Vliet Show, which is available anywhere
you can get podcasts, so check that out. But definitely
one for the record books. Definitely one that I'd like

(02:51):
to get back is Chris. So we're gonna get that
started in just a minute. But first, if you guys
haven't joined the show before, well here you are welcome.
This is the WWE podcast, the unofficial. We're not affiliate
with WWE. You have to say that for legal reasons,
but we are here seven sometimes eight days a week,
depending on if there's a pay per view. And I

(03:12):
say that, but at the same time, this coming week
I'll be on vacation, so you'll be getting your normal
shows from my other co hosts with awnxt and the
ww Rivalries on Friday with my co host Anthony DeMarco.
And so you're beginning the regular shows, but I will
be on a limited capacity. I will pop on if
need be in like very short segments, but for all

(03:33):
intents and purposes, I will probably be absent next week
and then be returning for the week in review show
the following Saturday or Sunday, I haven't probably Sunday I'll
be returning, So you're gonna want to stay tuned again.
All next week will be in normal content minus stuff
that I do, so definitely stay tuned. And I got

(03:54):
to have a vacation, right Like, I haven't taken a
vacation in a very long time, and I actually haven't
taken taken a day off work since the whole pandemic started,
although I work from home, so.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Does that really count. It's like I've been on vacation
for five six months anyway.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
But one last thing, if you guys haven't checked it out,
go on and go over to YouTube, by the way,
and also check on the Botch Guy. We did a
collaborative raw review. It's about fifteen minutes on YouTube. Check
it out. The Botch Guy and I have a little
bit of a review there, and I also did an
hour long review about SummerSlam with him on this feed,
so go back a couple of episodes.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
And check that out.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
And one last thing, if you want to get in
touch with the show, you can email us at real
WWE podcast at gmail dot com. You can also send
the show a voicemail and that if you didn't know.
The number is at five one eight nine to five
to two zero two four seven. So if you want
to comment on this show or any other, or just
have some thoughts on the product, please shoot me a voicemail.

(04:51):
It's at five one eight nine five to two zero
two four seven. So it's not manned. People think I'm
gonna pick up like it's weird. No, I promise it's
just a voice so you can do that, or if
you prefer, you can also email me your audio file.
Just create a voicemail or a voice file on your
phone and send it to me via email realww podcast
at gmail dot com. All right, let's get to it, guys,

(05:13):
Chris van Vliet and myself for the first time ever,
hopefully one of many, discussing himself as a broadcaster, his moments,
his favorite moments. He reveals his favorite wrestler at the
end of the show, and again we discussed the current
product as the bulk of the conversation, I really think
you're going to enjoy this one. So for now I

(05:34):
have to say I will talk to you in a
little while instead of soon, because I'll be returning on
September sixth for my Week in Review, a big return
show planned for that time. But maybe you'll hear from
me in between for some quick snippets if big things happen.
So alrighty guys, enjoy and take care. All right, everybody,
welcome to the ww podcast. And as promised, I have

(05:56):
with me tonight Chris van Vliet, who is one of
the most well known interviewers of not just pro wrestlers,
but movie stars, and he is with us tonight, and
we're going to talk about wrestling. Of course, we're going
to talk about some of the interviews he's done over
the years. We're going to talk about some of the
things that I'm interested on a personal level of maybe, hey,

(06:18):
who would he love to maybe have an interview with
that he's never done, or somebody that he would love
to have a second one with.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
And so at this time, Chris, how are you doing tonight?

Speaker 4 (06:28):
I'm doing great, Matt, Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
On No, no, no, no, it's absolutely our honor here
at the ww podcast because we are here to talk
wrestling with someone that is as successful as probably you
can be in your field with as far as pro
wrestling interviewing goes, and we are absolutely honored to have
you here. And so, Chris, you know, I know that

(06:52):
most of our listeners probably know who you are or
have seen an interview you've done here and there.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
But the fact that the man is that you are.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
Not just on YouTube. I know that most of our
viewers and listeners know that you have a YouTube channel
and very successful one, but you also do other things.
I mean, you have a podcast and you were a
TV host, like so tell the viewers or listeners what exactly,
what exactly do you do for those that may not know.

Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, so wherever you're listening to this, you can also
find my podcast. I have the very original name, the
Crispan Vleech Shows, so it's not hard.

Speaker 5 (07:29):
To remember that one.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
But my main background is I'm a broadcaster. I'm a
TV host and that's been my job since I graduated
from college. In fact, that's been my job since I
was in college, working in radio, working in television, and
you know, it's funny when people will come up to
me and say, oh man, this is so great that
you interview wrestlers. But I saw one time that you
interviewed a celebrity, and it's like, my main job up until,

(07:53):
up until maybe a few years ago, was just interviewing celebrities,
and I kind of just I took the opening of
being able to meet with actors and celebrities and musicians,
and I kind of like one day asked my boss,
like I think we could interview a wrestler. And that's
honestly how it started, like as me as a fan
trying to have the ability to chat with a wrestler,

(08:15):
and that's kind of how this whole crazy thing began.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
Who was the first one you interviewed? Who was the
first to first person?

Speaker 4 (08:21):
The very first wrestler I interviewed was Bobby Lashley. Now
let's take it way back. I was hosting a show
in Vancouver, Canada on what ended up becoming MTV two
MTV two Canada, and I was like, do you think
we could interview a restaurant? And my boss was like, yeah, sure,
we've done that before. I'm like, oh my gosh, this
is crazy, you're gonna pay me to hang out with

(08:42):
a wrestler, And Bobby Lashley came to the TV station.
He was the ECW champion at the time, so we're
going way back here.

Speaker 5 (08:48):
It was two thousand and seven, and he was just
a monster of a man, and what a.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
Great person to have my first interview with. I actually
last year I put up the video of this is
kind of like a throwback going. I'm aware of this
interview wasn't great, but we all have to start somewhere.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
No that I'm gonna have to dig this one up.
I mean, I'm assuming it's.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Or well, maybe we can have YouTube scrubbed them somehow,
But no, that iss awesome. I do remember him as
ECW champion at the time, and I believe that was
either right before or right after he had the big
WrestleMania with Mbaga and the Hair versus Hair, So that
was probably the first iteration of Bobby Lashley. That's probably
the biggest moment that I remember until he came back
a few years ago to WWE. So I know that

(09:36):
you've interviewed pretty much who's who in terms of wrestling,
and you've interviewed any everywhere from the Rock, which I
know you were super excited about, and that was like,
from what I understand, I watched one of your videos
where you said, hey, yeah, this was like the top
of the top of the top, the guy that if
I could have chose anybody to interview, it would have
been the Rock, and you got that opportunity. I interviewed

(09:59):
John Cena, occurred, I mean most recently, Eric Rowan, Peyton Royce.
To name a few that you've done just recently, And
I guess I can't really ask you if there's a
favorite one. I know that's that's hard. It's probably a
hard answer, but I guess what are the more memorable ones?
Maybe not if they're your favorite, because that's again probably
the difficult one to answer. What are some of the

(10:20):
more memorable ones that you've had over the years.

Speaker 5 (10:23):
I can tell you my.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
Favorite one only because he meant so much to me
as a kid growing up in the attitude era, Like
I was walking down my halls of my high school
in the late nineties, raising the people eyebrow and shouting
that doesn't matter at literally everybody. So to be able
to fast forward from that twelve thirteen years and to
be able to have a conversation with The Rock. It

(10:46):
was really special, not just because I was a giant
wrestling fan, but because of what the Rocks become like.
The Rock is arguably the most famous person in the world,
with the biggest star in the world. And iewed I've
interviewed him time.

Speaker 5 (11:00):
It's not that I'm counting or anything.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
No, no, no, just the guest estimate. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:04):
They always say you shouldn't meet your heroes, but if
your hero happens to be Dwayne Johnson, you should one
hundred percent meet your hero because he's kind and he's funny,
and he's charismatic, and he has this star quality about
him where he makes you feel important even though you know,
like I said, he's the biggest star in the world,

(11:24):
he's self aware enough to.

Speaker 5 (11:25):
Know that this moment's important for you.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
So yeah, the Rock, to borrow a phrase from him,
brings it every single time you talk to him.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
I can absolutely attest to that from what I've seen
in the interviews that have happened, and I would I
would say the same thing I was. I was in
that same boat back in the Attitude era. I'm only
a year or two younger than you, so I was
in high school probably the same time you were with
the Attitude era. No better time to be a teenager
than in the Attitude era that encouraged you know, middle fingers,
beer swilling, just people's eyebrows. I mean, you name it,

(11:57):
and as you know, you probably got it at least
I did. You know, you had your circle of friends
that didn't like wrestling, and then you had your circle
of friends that did like wrestling, got it, and those
that didn't like wrestling that you'd always get crap them
from them, and oh you like that fake stuff all that,
you know. I mean that just kind of goes with
the territory. But there was no better time, no bigger
time than at that point, from about ninety eight to

(12:19):
two thousand and one, two thousand and two, to be
a wrestling fan.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
From a ratings.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Perspective, from a star power perspective, I mean, it was
an all star roster at that point, and we took
it for granted. Every single Monday night, I mean Monday,
the main events were like you know The Rock versus
Austin in a tag team match, or you know, Hulk Hogan.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Versus The Rock.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
I mean there were main events that you would like,
this is a WrestleMania main event, and we took those
for granted back in the late nineties early two thousands.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
It's crazy.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
Yeah, it was exciting. And I think the cool thing
about being in high school at that time is if
you were walking down the halls and my high school
I had like two thousand people. But if you walk
down the halls and some guy was wearing a DX
shirt or a Stone Cold shirt, you instantly became best
friends with him.

Speaker 5 (12:59):
Like it's that moment.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
From step brothers, like did we just become best friends? Yes, yep,
And that that was like that was the cool thing
that like wrestling unites us, and for me that ended
up turning into me me becoming a backyard wrestler in
high school and then turning anytime we went to a
friend's backyard party that had a trampoline into a some
sort of makeshift wrestling match. Oh I was like I

(13:25):
was not just a fan, Like I was borderline obsessed
with this.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
It's really funny you bring that up. My friends and
I had a group called e CW. It was East
or e s W east Side Wrestling and oh no,
we didn't have a ring. It was just like you know,
somebody's old mattress, and we put like wood under it,
and we built this like makeshift arc way with like
a curtain behind it, and we had a fog machine
and things like that, and like we thought we were

(13:50):
We thought we were, you know, legit like I mean,
and we took it seriously. We actually planned out the storylines.
We had like production meetings, like it was insane. I mean,
some one of our friends ended up getting hurt, so
we had to stef It was one of my friend's
houses and their parents weren't too happy, I mean, but
we took it exactly that same way, and it was
just part of your life.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
We would have pay per view parties.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
And you know, back obviously when the pay per view
model still existed, it's hard to imagine that time now,
and we'd all chip in on all twenty bucks whatever
it may be, and we'd all order the pay per
view and watch it at that person's house.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
It was a different time, but one of the best
times ever to be a wrestling fan. Not that to
say that today's product's bad. It certainly got it's you know,
plus and minuses, But back then, man, it was just
a different world. It was mainstream and even if you
didn't like wrestling, you knew who Hogan was, you knew
who Austin was, you knew who the Rock was. And
I can remember I actually went to I was an

(14:42):
amusement park up here called the Great Escape up in
Lake George here in New York, and there was tickets
that were being offered to those that could win this
contest in front of like two hundred people where you
had to perform whatever you wanted to perform wrestling wise,
and it was based on crowd reaction, and so my
brother and I ended up I ended up giving my
brother in front of like two three hundred people the

(15:03):
stink Face and a stunner on stage, and it ended
up winning. It was to WWF No Mercy two thousand
when it was Stone Cold versus Rakishi here in Albody
in New York. So uh, that is my claim to
fame really, I mean not a very high one, but
there it is.

Speaker 4 (15:17):
Wow. So you performed the stink Face, you didn't receive
Oh no.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
No, I was not on the receiving end though, So
it's not as yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:25):
Okay, we're good, We're good.

Speaker 5 (15:27):
So it's funny.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
Like, so, you're right, wrestling was mainstream back then, wrestling
was exciting a little I think a little bit of
that as nostalgia, like in the same way that kids
who grew up in uh, you know, the ruthless Aggression
era are really nostalgic about that.

Speaker 5 (15:41):
I just think that, like, we're in.

Speaker 4 (15:43):
A really exciting time right now for wrestling, and I
always argue that this is the best time to be
a wrestling fan, and I, yeah, I get a lot
of people that roll their eyes on me, or you know,
come on, man, seriously, the attitude there was clearly the
best money net wars.

Speaker 5 (15:55):
And I'm like, yes, that was a great time.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
But at eleven o'clock on a Monday, when Raw and
Nitro ended, actually it ran over, so like eleven o
seven on a Monday night.

Speaker 5 (16:05):
You had to wait to watch wrestling.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
And this is why I will argue that wrestling is
better now because you can consume anything and everything that
you want now because of this awesome thing called the Internet,
and you can connect with fans all over the world
because of this awesome thing called the Internet. And with
that said, I can only imagine how awesome and exciting
the attitude era would have been the money net wars

(16:30):
would have been if the Internet was like mainstream back then.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
And at the same time, you know, I will agree
with you that today wrestling is more accessible than ever,
which I think again it's a great thing to especially
want to bring in new fans. You want to make
it accessible, you want to make it inexpensive.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
And yeah, there's YouTube. I mean, we all know YouTube
is there. You can punch up anything and more than
likely you'll get what you need. But the fact is that.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Even the ww network is absolutely revolutionary. You're being charged
ten bucks a month for all the content that they have.
And this is not me getting paid to say Thiswe
like that there is zero affiliation there, but the fact
of the matter is that network is absolutely like that
ten dollars is a joke compared to what you can get.
And I think that one of the things though about
the Internet is that I'm glad it really while it

(17:15):
existed kind of in its infancy stages in the late
nineties early two thousands, would dial up and all that.
I think that it not existing was a good thing
because it protected k fabe. It protected a lot of
the guys then gals that you see now where you know,
they could have a killer match in the ring and
then they're out and they're you know, hugging having a
drink at the bar after the show, and it's kind
of like, yeah, like we all know it's stage, but

(17:37):
it's kind of like believing in Santa Claus, like I
want to believe. And when I see these things like
it's cool, like oh cool, like that's stuff you normally
wouldn't see. At the same time, I'm like, ah, man,
like I wanted to believe. You know, it's kind of weird,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
It's definitely a different era, that's for sure.

Speaker 4 (17:51):
It's definitely a different era where you look, we all
know it's fake now, and I think that in the
nineties people were still hanging on to the idea of
like not, I mean not everything's fake, right, So I
think that it's definitely different error with that now. But yeah,
in k fabe itself is.

Speaker 5 (18:08):
Yeah, I'll say it. K Fabe is dead and that's okay.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
It's just a different era now, and I think that
we take it for what it is.

Speaker 5 (18:14):
We're also way more.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
Educated than we were twenty and thirty and forty years ago,
and I think that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
I think it is, and I think it's also a
testament to the product that even though people have like
the curtain has been completely pulled back and there's no
more secrets, that the fans still stick around, and that
ratings as of late, continue to rise, and that there
is that core audience.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
That yeah, we know it's it's not real, but it's.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
About getting caught up in moments, creating great storylines, compelling characters. Stars.
Stars will always sell. Stars sell in any major sport
in the world, movies, right, TV shows, it's about stars
and it always will be, none more than in professional
wrestling or as Vince would like to label it, sports entertainment.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
And I mean that's I don't want to.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Get into that, but this is something that even though
we know it's not real, you can make the same
argument though for TV and movies, we know those aren't
real ninety nine percent of them. And that's the argument
that I always say to people that say, oh, you
like that fake stuff, I'm like, what's the last TV
show or movie you watched that was actually real. I mean,
it's it's always like a lame argument. It's it's kind
of a lazy argument when people say that, but it

(19:25):
is certainly a different era and one that, like you said,
it's an exciting era with all the new stars. NXT
being absolutely revolutionary in creating these stars, being a feeding
ground for WWE, and on its own merit standing as
a legitimate third brand. I mean that is something nobody
would have expected six seven years ago.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
Oh not at all. Yeah. No, if you're real like
wrestling fan for what's going on in the ring, like
the actual pure wrestling, NXT loves the wrestling of SmackDown
and raw out of the water. I mean so much
so that when you see someone get the main roster,
you're like, oh, I.

Speaker 5 (20:03):
Wish they go back. Yeah, there was so much more
entertaining down there.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
You always get a little nervous when they come up
to the quote main roster, even though it's a legitimate
third brand. Like with Keith Lee's lead latest debut, I know,
and I heard a lot of negative feedback from people
about how, Hey, they changed his music, they changed his look.
He's not the same guy. What have they done to him?
And I understand the concerns. I mean, at the same time,
there have been some guys and gals that have come

(20:30):
up from NXT that have been ultra successful. I mean,
look at Becky Lynch, Charlotte, Sasha Banks, Bailey, they all
came from NXT and they are all obviously main events.
They ran invented WrestleMania, for God's sakes. So I think
that people need to realize that when they come to
the quote main roster, Vince McMahon is the ultimate.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
End all be all.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
I think Triple H has a lot more say than
most people really realize in NXT, and when they come
to the main roster, that's Vince's child. That's like his
two children are Brown SmackDown and Vince I think, likes
to put his fingerprints on the NXC stars coming up,
thinking that even if it's not broke, I'm gonna try
to fix it.

Speaker 4 (21:08):
At times, yeah, and I feel like even though you
might have been a super huge success in n XT,
you come to the main roster, you come to Robert SmackDown,
and I think, Vince, it's like starting.

Speaker 5 (21:19):
Over, like, all right, now, now prove yourself to me.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
It's like, well, didn't didn't I prove myself earlier? Like
my check is still signed by you? Like, why is
this any different?

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Exactly? No, that's exactly what it is.

Speaker 4 (21:33):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
And I mean again, people just right now are losing
their minds over Keith Lee. And again I have mixed
feelings on Keith Lee. The thing is, if people are
that concerned about the music and or the attire of somebody,
those are things easily fixed. I mean, those are things
that can be changed at the drop of the hat,
Whereas promobility, presence, and in ring ability are things that

(21:57):
can't be changed so quickly. So if it's something superficial
that fans are concerned about, I would maybe tamper your
your anger and realize, hey, this is something that can
be fixed. He's got all the foundational assets to be
still a big star, so.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
I want to them out a little bit here.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
And I know that again, you have a YouTube channel
that is massive and it has so many, so many
great interviews that you've done. And again, the most recent
was Eric Rohan, which I thoroughly enjoyed hearing from him
after his WW departure. But I know that you have
a really exciting one coming up next Tuesday, Is that right?

Speaker 4 (22:32):
Yeah? So I have the opportunity to talk to Matt Hardy,
which I'm really excited to talk to Matt Hardy and
just kind of dive into everything that he's done because
it's been an incredible, incredible career. I mean, most recently
with Broken Matt Hardy stuff, but I was also a
huge fan of Version One. Obviously, the Hardy Boys one

(22:52):
of the greatest tag teams of all time.

Speaker 5 (22:54):
So I'm really interested to dive deep.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
That's what I like to do with my interview, like
kind of dive deep, figure out like what makes someone tick.
And people always use the term reinvention with Chris Jericho,
and if you think about it, I mean, Chris Jericho's
the master of reinvention, but I think you could also
put that moniker on Matt Hardy. He's done so many
different things, and I love that he's now embracing this

(23:17):
and kind of showing it off to the world. You know,
the whole idea of the Lake of Reincarnation. We saw
a little bit of that during the Stadium Stampede match.
It's kind of like, yeah, I did this really cool
thing in the late nineties, that I did this other
cool thing a few years later. A couple of years
after that, I turned my character into this other thing
that really worked well. And crazy to think that, like

(23:39):
in the later years of his career he's had the
most success and who would have thought. Who would have
thought at the you know, the outset of the broken
Matt Hardy character, that this would be his most popular
gimmick that got him over and more than anyone at
that time in wrestling.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
I don't think any one would have saw that.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
I mean again, the evolution or the like you said, reinvention, reimagination,
whatever you want to call it is to me and
I think to a lot of stars that I've heard
talk about this. If you're in wrestling for a long time,
is the ability to adapt and change to an ever
evolving audience need want or if you feel your characters
getting kind of stale, then most likely the fans have

(24:23):
been feeling that way for a lot longer than you have.
So an Undertaker alluded to this, I believe in his
documentary about and the stars that they were they interviewed
for his documentary that hey, like, this is how you survive,
This is how you thrive in wrestling. Is being able
to know, you know you can ahead of time that look,
you know, I feel like things are getting a little

(24:44):
bit stale. Let's tweak this, let's add this, maybe grow
my hair out. Maybe maybe it is a heel turn,
a babyface turn, whatever it is. And that is exactly
like you said, Undertaker could do that, Chris Jericho. And yes,
of course Matt Hardy is absolutely on that list. And
the I mean that that chair shot that Sammy Gevara
gave him, man, oh, like that was that was brutal,

(25:06):
and that that actually made me a little bit concerned
for his health. If anybody, I mean, if anybody here
follows aw, I'm sure you do. The fact is like
that was not a that was not intentional from what
I can see, and that was damn.

Speaker 5 (25:20):
Let's call that what it was.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
It was a mistake, I mean, or an accident, whatever
you want to call it. But yeah, obviously was not
supposed to happen that way.

Speaker 5 (25:29):
I think it was.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
I don't even know if the chair was planned, who knows.
Kind of just looked like Sammy picked it up and
just kind of threw it in his direction. It landed
so perfectly on Matt Hardy's face, you know, which I
think that partially maybe he was lucky that maybe it
could have been worse.

Speaker 5 (25:47):
But yeah, that's that was a lot of blood. That
was a lot of blood.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
That was more When you see that, you go, yeah,
that wasn't a blade. That was the hard way, you know,
like and even the way you can even hear it,
and I believe it was Taz and Jr's voice like
commentating and you could hear it in their voice like
genuine concern, and so yeah, that was absolutely an accident.
And look, Matt Hardy is. I think he's surviving more

(26:12):
than most people would have expected him to given all
the iterations that he's had and the legal trouble he's
had with the broken character trying to bring that to
w WE, and I think he brought it there a
little bit too late because most when he came in
at the when he returned at WrestleMania thirty three in
the triple Threat Ladder match, and I was there for

(26:33):
it live, so it was awesome to see, Oh were
you I was, And when people are complaining and chanting
about the lights in your face, I remember that, But
I was.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
I don't know, I was. I guess middle of the stadium.
I was lower level middle.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
But nonetheless, it was probably the pop of the night
that night, and people after that were chanting delete, delete, delete, delete, Yeah,
and they, for legal reasons, they could not bring that character.
And I think probably Vince was hesitant at the same
time too, not really understanding that character. And you know,
Vince likes to go back to the comfort zone of what,

(27:09):
you know, what worked before you left, Well, let's stick
you back here. I think at times we've seen that
with John Morrison in them Is. I mean, there's another example,
but I think that the delete character, had it been
brought in at the right time and been brought in
when the fans were demanding it, I think could have
really taken off.

Speaker 5 (27:25):
What about you, I agree with you.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
But the thing that's tough about that gimmick is it's.

Speaker 5 (27:31):
Hard to like put into a box.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
And I feel like WWE likes to put people into
a box. They like to be able to describe you
in like one hundred and forty characters or less. And
the thing about the broken Matt Hardy character is you
can't really explain it. Even if we try to explain
it now, it would take us a while to like
really explain what his character was all about. So I

(27:54):
think that that's what it had going against it in WWE.
If he literally just said delete and spoke his funny
words in WWE, I think that that really could have
gotten over. But I think you're right, they kind of were.

Speaker 5 (28:09):
It did this a little bit too late, And I
actually want to talk to Matt about that.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
I want to ask him if he thinks that it
could have got as over as it did, Like he
was a big reason as over as it did an Impact.
Here's a big reason why Impact was able to stay
afloat for as long as it did.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
I mean, Matt Hardy made.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
Impact wrestling interesting during a time when there weren't a
lot of eyeballs on Impact.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
No, I remember that I was not following Impact, I
mean other than kind of casually and seeing some highlights
or maybe some big things that came out of the show,
and Matt Hardy was consistently one of them. He was
a foundational piece of that show. And seeing some of
the things that he did on his YouTube channel and
just the wacky stuff he would do, and it was
definitely entertaining. And again, maybe that would be a great question,

(28:55):
I think, and just a suggestion to ask him.

Speaker 5 (28:57):
You know, well, thank you, I'm going to write that
down right now.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah, no, no, no problem. Uh, And so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
So I guess my point about Matt Hardy though, is
that he is an embodiment of what is what performers
should be able to do, or if they can do,
to evolve and change and have that ability to know
and have the finger of your of the pulse on
the fans, you know, hey, like it's time to change
something up. And again that's probably easier said than done,
given that it's not really up to them. It's a

(29:25):
lot of up to vincent creative. So uh, I guess
a little bit more topical though, just some some big
things going on here. I'm very interested to hear what
your thoughts are on this because as we've gone through
the Thunderdome in this virtual environment which no longer has
the NXT trainees playing real WWE fans, and it actually

(29:46):
I mean, and look, I'm not disrespecting them. They are
they are truly fans, otherwise they wouldn't want to be
in the business. But the fact is they're kind of
like state run radio, right Like, they're not gonna boo
who they're supposed to cheer, and they're not gonna cheer and.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
They're supposed to boo. I get it.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
But at the same time, the positive is when they
were there in the performance center, is like, hey, I
love seeing fans there again, even if it's in a
very limited capacity. It's like taking the soul out of
wrestling when you take the fans out and having.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
The virtual fans there.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
I think from a visual perspective, looks good seeing all
the different faces of true WWE fans that have that
have no filter and are not there because WW told
them to be there. But they, I think again, have
done a nice job with the Thunderdome, but they've taken
the voice out of the fans. Still they're visually there,
but the voices aren't there. And with good reason. You

(30:35):
can't have three hundred audio streams going. And that's a
heck of a liability too. I mean, you don't know
what people are gonna say or do, and I totally
understand that, and there's really no way to logistically do it.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
But what are your thoughts? I guess first thing is
the Thunderdome. How do you like that?

Speaker 4 (30:49):
I think it looks great. I unfortunately think that maybe
it's like four or five months too late. Like to
have this idea, and I get that, like, we take
a tremendous amount of planning.

Speaker 5 (31:02):
To put this thing together, but it looks great.

Speaker 4 (31:05):
Imagine though, if this thing had been around for WrestleMania,
I think that that could have been really really cool
to see that visual. But look, this has been such
a strange time for all of us. It's completely unprecedented
what's going on right now, so it's hard to kind
of have like an expectation for what things should be

(31:25):
like when we're comparing it to the pre COVID world,
when you know fans could be in attendance. I think
that WWE, AW and Impact Wrestling are all doing like
a really really good job of just figuring out how
to continue to put on shows and how to continue
to make it entertaining. I'm really curious to see how
the thunder Dome evolves. I mean, thunderdomes like a week old.

(31:48):
I'm really curious to see how this thing evolves, how
it continues to get better. It sounds. I think it
sounds better, even though it's fake crowd noise. It sounds
better than the empty performance and are basically counting the
steps as someone would run the Ropes, so I think
it's it's a step in the right direction. I just
think that it hasn't quite been perfected yet. And with

(32:11):
that said, AW is starting to welcome back a limited
amount of fans. I think it's this weekend, so I'm
really curious to see if WWE will follow suit.

Speaker 5 (32:21):
And go, oh, they can bring in some fans. Well,
maybe we can.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Bring in some fans. And I know the Daily's place
is going to run it. I think it's ten percent capacity,
So I think the capacity there's five thousand, So ten
percent of that's five is hundred, five hundred people after
not hearing fans for five months, is going to sound
like fifty thousand people. I'm really interested to see others Goes.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
I can't wait to see fans back, even if it
isn't a ten percent capacity. That you have to remember though,
if it's five hundred versus five thousand, that means that
those five hundred people have an exponentially louder voice. So
you know, you have to also remember that somebody screen,
maybe something you don't want to hear, is going to

(33:03):
be much easily reachable on the camera's mic than it
normally would be had you know, five thousand people drowning
out the noise, but that at.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
The same time, at the same time, if you're going
to these, you know, limited capacity shows, you are a.

Speaker 5 (33:16):
Super fan for sure.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
So I think that we're also gonna see like some
real hardcore fans in the audience.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
That's true, Yeah, because you are there and you're just like,
you know, f the pandemic. I'm here, you know, basically
like yeah, I mean you are, and like, look, eventually
we're gonna get back to hopefully, you know, the masks
requirement will be lifted, the social distancing will be lifted.
I hope, my god. You know, at some point this
has to go away. I don't know if the vaccine
will do that or who knows, but eventually we're gonna

(33:46):
have to get back to it.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
And even going back to the ww network.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
I mean and seeing fans, it's like you you can exhale.
You're like, oh, this is so much better. And it's
not the WWE has not put effort forth. They have
done I think, a really really good job with the
hand they were dealt to go through WrestleMania. The way
that they did it was honestly really painful. As a
Stone Cold Fan probably well, he's my favorite of all time.

(34:12):
I know that's not the most interesting selection, it's very generic,
but he is. And having him come out on Austin
or a three sixteen day in an empty arena with
nobody that was painful. It was like, no, it really
really hurt, and that was really like culture shock at
that or just like a I know, just a slap

(34:32):
of the face of reality when you hear Austin's music
and an empty URNI and he comes out.

Speaker 4 (34:36):
I think the thing that's been so tough about the situation,
not just for ww WE but for everybody as a whole,
is we didn't know how long we had to plan for.

Speaker 5 (34:45):
I mean we still don't.

Speaker 4 (34:46):
We still don't know, like when the light at the
end of the tunnel is going to start shining through.
So I think if someone said on March, you know
it was at thirteenth when things really started getting shut down.
If on March thirteenth someone was able to have the
foresight to go, all right, this thing is gonna last
until Christmas, I mean nobody would have known that. But

(35:06):
if we did wwe would have been able to and
everyone would have been able to go Okay, all right,
this thing's gonna last that long.

Speaker 5 (35:12):
We better start making stuff happen now.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
I mean, you watch some of those first episodes of Raw,
and they clearly had the mindset of like, all right, well, well,
we're just pushing this back a week. Like remember they
were there were certain episodes of Raw where they would
just re air the royal rumbles yep, yep, and then like,
you know, okay, so our show next week and I'm
just gonna make up a you know city here. Our
show next week in Syracuse is postponed, but don't worry.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
The tickets so will be good for that show in May.

Speaker 4 (35:40):
It's like, and now we're like now here at the
end of August. We laugh at that idea.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
No, it's it's absolutely true. And at first, like seeing
the empty seat seeing Triple H I remember, I'll never
forget I don't think any of us will forget it.
That first night when nobody was in the arena, it
was eerily quiet, and you again, it was just uncertainty, fear,
you know what's gonna happen. You know, millions of people
truly gonna die. You know, you know it's bad when
when Vince has to concede that, yeah, we can't have

(36:07):
fans like. That's how you know, that's the measuring stick
of the severity of things. Is Vince Bmicmahn. I mean
he did it right. He was the first, the first
large conglomeration of any kind after nine to eleven. I
remember the SmackDown after nine to eleven. I mean, nothing
stops Vince Bcmann. Even the snowed in.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Raw after Royal rumble in twenty fifteen with Roman reigns,
they still went on and did that show. So you
know it's serious.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
When Vince goes damn it, you know, and he has
to concede. And so given that again, as you said,
the first few weeks, it was weird, and hearing promos
with no crowd weird, and with the performers trained to
talk and act and perform like there's an audience there
and then there's none.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
It was weird.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
You hear things you normally don't hear. It became uncomfortable,
but we slowly got used to it. We got past WrestleMania.
They brought quote fans back with the NXT trainees, and
they've done a lot of cinematic matches with the money
in the Bank with the Boneyard Match, the Swamp Fight
with Spraun, Strowman and Bray Wyatt. So I guess in general,

(37:13):
I gotta ask, what do you think so far about
the cinematic matches. I don't know if you want to
call them matches. I guess the movies that they've been
producing between the last three four months that they've been
able to do it. Are you a fan of it?
Are you kind of like groaning at it? What do
you think about the way they they've done those particular matches.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
Well, I think it's interesting, Matt that when they first
announced that they were going to do these matches that
were filmed like movies, wrestling fans all across the world
kind of collectively rolled their eyes and went, oh my god, like,
are you serious? And then when we saw the Boneyard
match and went, huh, that was actually the best part
about Russell Vividia, Like.

Speaker 5 (37:51):
That was really good.

Speaker 4 (37:53):
And I think that WWE has made lemonade out of
the lemons that they have, and I think that under
no other circumstances would these types of matches work. I
would be really really surprised when things get back to
normal if we ever saw another cinematic match again. And
I say that because can you imagine sitting in Raymond

(38:14):
James Stadium eighty thousand people and the boneyard match comes on,
and eighty thousand people have to like cock their head
up and look at a jumbo tron for twenty minutes
or thirty minutes.

Speaker 5 (38:24):
It just doesn't work.

Speaker 4 (38:26):
And so much of what the WWE does, so much
of what pro wrestling is all about, is that live
interaction with the audience. And I just think that it's
a cool thing that's happening right now and a great
way to pivot when they had to pivot. I just
think it's going to be one of those things that
we look at as a product of this time and

(38:46):
a cool way to figure things out, a cool way
to do things. But I can't see this being something
that happens moving forward. I was actually really surprised that
there weren't any of these types of matches at SummerSlam,
which I felt to me was kind of an indication of,
like of something, maybe that they weren't working, maybe that
they were overused, maybe that they cost too much to make.

(39:07):
I don't know, but the fact that we didn't see
what at SummerSlam was interesting.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
It was as you kind of get used to, at
least one of the matches being produced cinematically. And I
don't agree about the Boneyard match. Well personally, I didn't
think it was the best part of WrestleMania. It it
it kind of settled my fears that, Okay, this is
this isn't going to be as bad as I probably
thought they could. You know, because at times you feel
like they try to run from their own identity or

(39:32):
being a pro wrestling company. They'll say they're not pro wrestling.
They'll say they're sports entertainment. But that's how you entertain
people is through pro wrestling, Like I mean, so they
can try to put lipstick on it all they want,
I mean, and try to run from their identity. I mean,
it's just a fact that they are. They're a pro
wrestling company. And you know, again, Vince, I remember even
saying on Stone Cold's podcast, well we're to stone Cold, Hey,

(39:53):
you know, we're not a pro wrestling company, although that's
what my father did. We're sports entertainment. And I'm like, no, Vince,
like pro sports entertainments, not a thing thing like pro wrestling,
is how you entertain the people. So that's what is
entertaining people through a simulated sport. But anyway, it's almost
like it's a bad word to physics.

Speaker 4 (40:11):
Yes, wrestling has this like stigma that he wants to
get away from. Like in the same way that in
the same way that a porn star would not call
themselves a porn star, a porn star is an adult entertainer.
It's like, well, you can call it whatever you want,
but it's the same thing.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Yeah, it's exactly what it is. It's exactly what it is.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
It's a perfect analogy for what Vince does. And every
time I hear sports entertainment, I'm just like, no, no,
it's still pro wrestling. And you can see anytime you
hear the word wrestling on a WWE show, you're like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait,
like it actually catches your attention. I remember, like even
when Rick Flair cut his promo a number of weeks ago,
I think it was Rick Flair, it might have been

(40:51):
Randy Orton who said actually the word wrestling and you
could see them almost like flinch, like, oh no, it
was HBK who said the word wrestling before he got
punk kicked by Randy a couple of weeks ago, and
you could see them almost hesitate before saying the word wrestling,
like oh oh, whoops. I shouldn't have said that, because
it's one of those banned words that for whatever reason,
they try to avoid, like, no, we're not we're not wrestling.

(41:11):
I'm like, well, no you are, Like we are still
here for pro wrestling, and actually pro wrestling to me
sounds more legitimate than sports and entertainment, which is very soft.
But anyway, well, the last point I wanted to make
on the whole coronavirus era, however, we'll look back at
this this time is and maybe maybe I'm the minority

(41:31):
in this, but I've kind of looked at this as
I actually expect WWE to kind of lower the bar
in terms of their storylines, and actually, in a way,
I hope they do.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
And let me let me tell you why.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
If you're in, if you have a big angle going on,
or you have a big return that you wanted to do,
wouldn't you rather have it in front of fans that
can react and make that moment even bigger. So they
kind of have to go to Plan B and C
that may not be as exciting, So I kind of
mean it in that way, like I love what they've done,
they've maximized Plan B and C, but I actually don't
want to see big returns that could be better in

(42:08):
front of a live audience. Again, we don't know when
that's going to be happening again. But to me, those
moments and big storylines in big payoffs mean more when
you have a crowd there to give it a soul.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
Does that make sense, Yeah, And I definitely think that
we've all taken that crowd reaction for granted, Like I
think that that's something will never.

Speaker 5 (42:28):
Take for granted ever again.

Speaker 4 (42:30):
But I agree with you if there's a big return
that's going to happen. I mean the Stone Cold thing
on three sixteen is a perfect example. It just fell
flat and it was nobody's fault. It's just Stone Cold
is such a huge star and always garners such a
massive response that when you don't have that, it just
feels weird. In the same look, there's been so many

(42:52):
moments across all the companies over the last five months
that we've gone, oh man, that would have been so
much better if Eric Young returned to Impact with a crowd,
if Brodie Lee debuted on aw with a crowd, if
Drew McIntyre won the championship with a crowd.

Speaker 5 (43:10):
But I don't know.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
I don't know what the solution is in the short term,
because it's not like we have a date circled on.

Speaker 5 (43:16):
The calendar of like, all right, everything will be.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
Back to normal. We'll just flick that switch on November first,
and everything'll be fine. You know.

Speaker 5 (43:23):
It's unfortunate that we don't know that.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
And if we did, I think that that's when companies
could start to do some planning.

Speaker 5 (43:29):
That's when they could figure things.

Speaker 4 (43:31):
Out and go, oh man, we were going to have
so and so return in September, but now we'll just
hold it until we have that crowd in November.

Speaker 5 (43:39):
Unfortunately, though, we don't know when that's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
I think that's the absolute worst part of the whole
pandemic is we don't have the date. It's just indefinitely
like that.

Speaker 4 (43:51):
That it kind of feels like you got sent to
your room. Remember when you were a kid and you
did something wrong and you got sent to your room,
like go to your room for an hour, and then
at like the fifty five minute mark, your mom goes,
I meant two hours.

Speaker 5 (44:06):
You're like, what what do you mean? Like you said
an hour?

Speaker 4 (44:08):
Like in the same way that when this thing started,
remember when it was quarantine till March thirty first, Yes,
then it was all right, okay, and we're gonna push
this back to Memorial Day.

Speaker 5 (44:19):
Then it'll be the fourth of July.

Speaker 4 (44:20):
It's like, okay, Well, just like when is it and exactly?

Speaker 1 (44:25):
And I guess another analogy would be like, hey, we're
gonna want this diet and you can't eat sugars or
carbs and it's only vegetables and rice or whatever, you know,
pick your healthy dish.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Well for how long?

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Well, I don't know, just just until I say so,
you know, Like it's like, so I have to cut
out sugars and carbs and fats until you just say so,
versus saying you have to do this for three weeks
and then to be good. Which do you think is
gonna be more successful?

Speaker 4 (44:50):
Right?

Speaker 2 (44:51):
That is?

Speaker 3 (44:51):
That's yeah.

Speaker 4 (44:53):
All of this is to say, like, I certainly hope
that everybody's being safe, and I certainly hope that this thing,
you know, gets down within the best possible way.

Speaker 5 (45:01):
And I'm not trying to make light of this situation.

Speaker 4 (45:04):
It's just been so hard for anybody to figure out
anything when we don't know when it's gonna end.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
No, and you see signs of like okay, they flattened
the curve. They you know, things are down, the death
rates down, the infection rates down, and you're like okay,
so like can we get back to normal?

Speaker 3 (45:20):
And they're like, well no, no, no, because then you know
the virusal spike again. So like what's the answer. The vaccine?

Speaker 1 (45:26):
But then what it has states do do they mandate
that you take they have the vaccine? Like, even when
the vaccine comes out, people think that's going to be
a cure.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
All.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Well, I mean, how do you regulate who gets it?
How do you know where they've been if they haven't
gotten it? Are they denied access going here and there?
If they didn't get the vaccine? Like it gets very
very tricky. Now I don't know how this is dealt with.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
I mean, so.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (45:49):
I'm very curious to see how this ends.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
Yeah, I hope it does.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
We need to finish and we've had we've had too
many false finishes to make a reference wrestling. I mean
really like like they need to stop kicking out and
just take to finish, and maybe we should just do
the roll up, Just do the roll up. But which
is WW seems to be very fond of right now.
It's the most devastating finisher and wrestling right now is
the roll up.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
So maybe we should try that on coronavirus.

Speaker 5 (46:11):
I mean, it's the only thing we haven't tried.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
That's really it. Just do the Art Truth twenty four
to seven title special, the roll up from behind. So
that's it.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
So so, some big current storylines going on, some big
things that have started over the last couple of weeks.
Number one, we just talked about the Thunderdome. Two big
things that have happened, and I guess you can take
them one at a time or talk about it both.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
If you'd like Raw Underground and Retribution.

Speaker 4 (46:39):
What do you think Raw Underground? I feel like people
were too quick to go, oh, yeah, this thing sucks.
I don't like it, And that's kind of that's unfortunately,
kind of the thing with wrestling in general, where we
see something and we decide instantly like, yeah, this isn't
for me. I'm not sure where this idea came from, though,
I don't I'm not a huge fan of it. I

(47:00):
think that if you're going to do these worked shoot fights,
I don't know, isn't that what wrestling is to begin with? Anyways?

Speaker 5 (47:07):
Aren't we supposed to be thinking it's work shoots?

Speaker 4 (47:10):
So I'm not a huge fan of that retribution. I'm
curious to see what the payoff is here. It feels
like a storyline we've seen before, which has worked very
successfully before with Nexus, which turned into an incredible faction.
I'm curious to see what ends up happening with this
once they get unmasked. Do we still care about them?

(47:32):
How do they continue to push this storyline because right
now I feel like it doesn't have a lot of legs.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Yeah, and so kind of piggybacking on what you talked
about with Rounderground, people were very quick to dismiss. I
think that's a very knee jerk reaction. In today's as
a pro wrestling fan especially, it's very easy, especially go
on Twitter, Instagram, wherever and just staw, this is terrible.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Like what is this?

Speaker 1 (47:54):
And to some degree I get the criticisms because, like
you said, isn't that what wrestling already is? And if
this is such a successful style. Why aren't they doing
this in the ring anyway? And furthermore, it feels kind
of like a pro wrestling version of UFC, like that
to me, there are oil and water. It doesn't to me.

(48:15):
It just I don't understand the endgame. I don't know
what this is supposed to do to build new stars.
But if you build a new star, then what do
you do put them in the ring and put them
on raw above ground? And then I mean, like, really,
I don't know what the endgame is and how is
this going to translate to into a live audience format?
You think people are gonna want to sit there and
watch the Titan tron for fifteen twenty minutes.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Like you said, I don't know. I know what they're doing.
It's new, it's fresh.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
We don't really know where we're going, but people will
tune in because it's you know, get people talking and well,
I feel like they don't have a plan. I feel
like there's no long term vision for this. It's just
kind of like a break from the normal version of Raw,
which is why it's underground.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
I don't know what to Honestly, I don't know what
to make of Underground, So.

Speaker 4 (48:55):
I don't know what to make of it either, because
unless a huge star is going to come out of this,
or a huge storyline is gonna come out of this,
I feel like they should have just replaced this with
like a cruiserweight now or like WCW used to do,
like give us just some great wrestling, because this doesn't
feel like there's any sort of a off to it.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
No, I don't see the payoff, and with retribution, I'm
look I'll say this, they felt a little bit Nexus
like when they first debuted. Although Nexus didn't attack fans,
they didn't attack or chainsaw the ropes or anything like that.
So they certainly went extreme with what they've done and
attacking the production crew and everything like that.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
And I will say this, it's.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Pretty ballsy of WWE to pull from current events and
put them into a pro wrestling show, which is why
you're watching wrestling in the first place, is to get
away from your normal life, so then you can't escape
it in this fantasy environment because they're even bringing that in,
So it's pretty ballsy on their part. They got to
be very careful of how they portray this, and god
forbid they bring up like BLM or something like that.

(49:56):
I don't think they would do that, but they're certainly
pulling on things that are going on in the the
current regime of things. So that's again very gutsy on
Vince's part to do. I'm glad at least this week
that they have defined the groups of the members of
this group, they've condensed them down. It seems like from
an amorphous blob of about twenty people to the select

(50:17):
what six or so people that were standing on the
ring apron, they've at least taken that step. I will
also say that WWE has the single worst security in
the history of security teams. If they are so concerned
about their stars and their announced teams their production to
not have security where it should be. And lastly, and

(50:39):
I just can't get over this. If their entrance is
truly going to be a flickering light and they're going
to attack somebody, that is the single worst way to
let somebody know that, hey, this is a surprise attack
coming right, Like, and what if somebody do if someone
standing there at like the light switch going okay, guys,
you're ready, and they flip a switch. But if somebody
have a remote control, like, why is it a flickering light.

(51:00):
That is, that's like giving a heads up to people
in the ring, like, hey, we're coming.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
I don't know. So there's just some some thoughts.

Speaker 5 (51:07):
These are all really valid points.

Speaker 4 (51:10):
Wow, you're so right. The flickering light. Yeah, it doesn't
make it doesn't make a lot of sense. I just
don't know, you know how we're gonna still be talking
about retribution in six eight weeks from now, Like, how
is this storyline going to be able to continue? Because
it's just right now a whole lot of the same every.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
Week it is.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
And I would at least like a mission statement from them,
like and then the other thing.

Speaker 5 (51:31):
But here's what's gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (51:33):
We are gonna get that whoever their lead person's gonna be.

Speaker 5 (51:35):
They're gonna cut some promo.

Speaker 4 (51:37):
We're gonna go huh, that's it.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Hm.

Speaker 4 (51:41):
I guess I don't feel like there could be any
sort of promo that would make us go, oh yeah,
that makes sense.

Speaker 5 (51:48):
I'm on board with this.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
Now.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
Well, they're clearly a heel group.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
I mean they they've they've kind of established themselves as
this heel group. Uh, and that the only sign that
they've given us is they took spray paint and put
the W symbol and then put a strike through it. Okay,
so you're against the company. You want retribution against the company,
you want revenge against the company, and many people are speculated,
Oh well, cempunk's the leader. I don't think so I

(52:12):
really don't think that cmpunk would do that. And furthermore,
as I made my point earlier about not doing big
angles with nobody there, do not if cmpunk's coming back. Please,
I'm begging WWE, do not make this an angle with
cmpunk if it is cmpunk in front of virtual fans
or you know, simulated fans whatever.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
So I will say this though, if cmpunk were to
come back, and this is complete fantasy booking here, because
who knows if he's coming back, But what if we
had a date when fans were allowed back in arenas?
What let's make up some dates here. I said November
first earlier, So what's wrong with that. What if on
November first, WWE said it's like first live show back

(52:53):
to first raw, back with fans and cm Punk's going
to return, how big would those ratings be?

Speaker 1 (53:00):
You talk about a needle mover, and if they promoted
the hell out of it, and I think social.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Media would blow up.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
You'd have the most anticipated wrestling show in years, with
not only fans back, but See Him Punk returning. I mean,
you're getting me excited for something that's not even real,
and so like, I really do I think that's gonna happen. No,
But to your point, if something like that did happen, yeah,
I mean that would be not only just a quick

(53:28):
shot of a rating. I think that would be sustainable
viewers that you bring back on a weekly basis, not
just like oh, hot shotting, let's pop the ratings this
week and their tank next week. That I mean, well, actually,
while you're on it, I got to ask that was
one of my things. Do you think Sampunk's ever going
to come back in a wrestling capacity?

Speaker 5 (53:45):
I just can't see it happening. I just can't see him.

Speaker 4 (53:50):
I mean, he doesn't need to come back, like he's
done everything he needs to do.

Speaker 5 (53:54):
I can't see him coming back.

Speaker 4 (53:56):
But I had a really interesting conversation with will Osprey
and will Ospray and See Him Punk were like dming
each other about the possibility of having a match of
the Tokyo Dome in January. So I think that While
I would love to see that happen, I just can't
see it happening. Like he seems really content with how

(54:16):
his life's going now, he seems really happy being able
to put wrestling in the rearview mirror. So if I
had to bet right now, you know, as we sit
here at the end of August in twenty twenty, in
this wild world of coronavirus, right now, I would say no.
But what do you think.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
I will say that? I think and I'm not.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
You know, again, I wouldn't bet my house on it,
but I would say that he probably will in an
extremely limited capacity, maybe even more limited than Edge. And
I think not because he feels like he owes anybody anything,
not because I feel like he feels like he has
something to prove. I think those answers are very clear
that neither one is true. I think that if he
came back, and I think he will not extremely confidently,

(55:00):
but again I think he will. It would be on
a huge stage that would you know, It would be
a long running storyline, say from like a Summer Slam
to a Mania or maybe like a late fall into Mania.
It should be a WrestleMania main event or at least
one of the main events, and if he was going
to come back, I mean, there's a plethora of people
he could work with, and I think that he has.

(55:23):
He is the master of manipulation on social media, like
he knows exactly what he's doing when he says something.
And I remember him even putting out there on Twitter
which said something like along the lines of like I
know a thing or two about retribution, something like that,
and people lost their minds.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Oh, he's the leader.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
He's the leader of retribution, so he knows exactly what
he's going to do. And to me, there's no better
time to return than when everyone thinks you're not returning.
So I think that, again, not very confidently. I think
he will come back for at least one more match.
Don't ask me who his opponent is, because I mean,
I maybe I don't know. I'm gonna get into that,

(56:02):
but I think he will come back. But you know,
time's kind of ticking, like he's not the spring Chicken,
and I think maybe in the next couple of years.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
I think he will.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
But yes, so I'm saying no, you're saying yes, yeah,
Well we'll find out soon enough.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
I guess that's one you got to do. Have you
done seampunk? Have you interviewed se him punk ish?

Speaker 4 (56:20):
So I did a you know, I was the one
who did that first interview with him on that red
carpet when he was hosting the AP Music Awards, the
Alternati Press Music Awards. He famously said to me that
he was gonna never, ever, never, ever.

Speaker 5 (56:33):
Ever come back to wrestling.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
So this was like twenty fourteen, six months after he
had left WWE, and it was actually, you know, ironic
that he left. He walked out of WWE in Cleveland,
and I was working in Cleveland at the time. This
awards show was in Cleveland, so it was kind of ironic.
The place that he walked out on WWE was the
place where we did this kind of impromptu quick interview

(56:58):
about whether he'd ever go back. But that's my only
interaction with him. That's my only interview with him.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
So this was prior to the Cult Cabana podcast that
was just absolutely exploded.

Speaker 4 (57:08):
Yes, wow, that was it was. This was like a
two minute interview.

Speaker 5 (57:11):
I want a red carpet.

Speaker 4 (57:14):
I remember they said, yeah, you can interview him, just
don't ask about wrestling, and I'm like, come on, it's.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Like interviewing like I know, and I know you've interviewed
Tom Cruise. That's like interviewing him and not asking him
about movies like right, yeah, which yeah, I mean seriously,
so uh yeah, I get it. I mean c mpunk
is he's a guy that is extremely introverted and is
hard to I think he's very cautious about what he
says and who he talks to, and I respect that.

(57:41):
And if aj Lee were to ever to come back,
which people have been speculating that to me, do I
think a j Lee would come back? People ask me
that all the time, and I I don't know. I
think aj Lee and Sampunk are very happy where they're
at in life. Sampunk did his best in what he
did with UFC and was not so successful. But when
you look at if you've seen any of the documentaries

(58:03):
and what he did with his training, the training, my
god is it's something I don't think most people would
ever be able to survive. And so I give him
extreme respect for even attempting that. And I have so
many people all, yeah, knew he shouldn't have stepped in there.
He's a pro wrestler. He's gonna get his you know,
backside kicked then come on, man, I mean so, I mean,
look what brock Lesler did.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
But I don't know.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
So I'm glad that you disagree with me on that
because I'm very interested to see if it comes true.
So a couple of other things about the current product.
What are your thoughts on the Fiend right now? We
have and Roman Reigns returning because they're now kind of interlocked.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
How do you how do you feel about that?

Speaker 4 (58:46):
Well, to you know, to take the tagline of SummerSlam,
I don't know if we saw it coming right. I'm
not sure what I think about what the Fiend is
doing right now. I kind of feel like he's been
underutilized the last little while here. I just think there's
more and maybe it's because the crowd's not there that
maybe they're not giving him one hundred percent of what

(59:07):
the possibilities are for him.

Speaker 5 (59:09):
But I just I don't know.

Speaker 4 (59:11):
I just think there's more for him. Rab Morain's coming
back was great to see and it looks like he's
in some sort of a heel role. He looked like
a beast, so that was awesome. Also, lots of comments
about his new teeth, which but that was like a
real stark contrast.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
There wasn't a big time yeah, big time. I thought.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
It was like and I look, if you have that
much time off and you're spending it with your family
and all you're doing is training like an animal, and
you're like, hey, no, better time to kind of get
these things done.

Speaker 4 (59:40):
But it does.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
They don't look bad. They just it's just very, very different.
It's like, whoa, like they're they're too perfect, right, But like.

Speaker 4 (59:47):
But there's there's lots of there's lots of famous people
that have veneers. Like I bet you people don't realize,
like Tom Brady has venears just because they look so natural.
They look so good, they fit his mouth, they're not
overly white. But Romans was like blinding.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Yes, it's not subtle, that's the thing. Yeah, no, no,
it's in your face. That was one of the first
things I noticed. I mean, it was like I noticed,
like his teeth and then whoa, he's a big he's
gotten bigger, and he cut his hair and he got
a new shirt. So like I mean, in that exactly,
in that exact order, and so hey, like I'm sure
people will get on him about it, Like I mean, Hey,

(01:00:25):
I'm not going to kick him for it. It's just
kind of like it is very distracting. It's because it's
just it's so different. I didn't even notice his teeth
were that bad to begin with. I didn't know he
had a big problem with it. I thought it was
fine the way he was. But if he felt that
you need to change me, hey, do what you want.
But I'm I'm glad Roman rangs his back. I will
say that it looks like bron Stroman is officially turned

(01:00:47):
heel and is staying heel, and that Roman is now
taking that baby face spot that is.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Left by Bronze Stroman.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
And it becomes it remains to me seeing if at
payback this Sunday, that if he is indeed going to
become Universal Champion, do you think they'll put the belt
on Roman right away? You think he'll have to chase
the Fiend for a little while.

Speaker 5 (01:01:05):
Yeah, I think he's gonna chase him.

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
I can't see him getting the title this quickly, because
then what do we you know, do we want to
watch the Fiend chase? But with that said, how does
the Fiend lose like this? This is this has been
the crazy thing about that character is it's really hard
to make him lose.

Speaker 5 (01:01:25):
I mean, we've seen all these.

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
Matches where it's almost impossible to beat him. So if
Roman does beat him, how you know what makes the
most sense?

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Well, I think that I don't know, because well, I
will say this anytime in the in the last five
six years since Roman Rains has been in and out
of Universal champions and WW Championships, that anytime you're in
doubt and you're not sure where WW is going, I
just look up and I see all roads lead to
Roman Reigns. Like that is I mean really like, as

(01:01:55):
I'm driving and I'm like, where am I going, I'll
just look up at Vincent, I'll say, and I'll know
immediately that's where they're going Roman reigns, because it always
just feels like that's their destination, that everything else is
a placeholder to get to Roman Reigns.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
It just has felt like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Whether that's true or not, it has just had that
feeling to me all the time, which is why leading
up to WrestleMania, when everyone suspected it was going to
be Roman versus the Fiend, people were like, well, Roman's
just gonna beat him, and they changed it because they
had they knew that everyone knew that was gonna happen,
and they didn't want Roman in that position, so that it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
Was going to be Roman versus Goldberg, which we would
have to assume that Roman was gonna win that match,
you know, become the champion in the same way that
Drew did.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
No, no, no, he was scheduled to he was scheduled
to beat him, and then braun Strowman inexplicably just but
by the way, they never explained, which was weird. Bron
Stroman just goes, oh me me next, and that was it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
There was never I mean really, that's they didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Even give an explanation. There was nothing. How can you
not give an explanation when it's the main event of
your biggest show of the year and someone else just
slides in. I mean, that'd be like a replacement in
the super Bowl. Well how did that happen? I don't know,
you know, it was first come, first surf, Like, I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
There was not even an explanation.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
So maybe that's why he attacks Stroman and we'll get
some kind of some kind of reasoning.

Speaker 5 (01:03:13):
Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah, that would totally make sense.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
Yeah, I hope so.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
But again I'm fearful because the Fiend, the character, like
you said, is the way they've booked him is kind
of unbeatable. I mean, look what the whole seth Rollins
and Fiend debacle at Helen a Cell last year that
was just absolutely destroyed by fans for the way it
was booked, in the red lighting and the match stoppage,
the whole thing. I mean, it really did a lot

(01:03:40):
of damage I think to the Fiend and seth Rawlins
at the time, who was playing still babyface.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
But I don't know how they beat the Fiend.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
They got to find a weakness for him, and we'll see.
So one of the thing that's going on in WW,
not one other thing is I mean, I could talk
to you about a bunch of stuff, but some of
the big ticket items. This, to me is is probably
the biggest thing going on right now is Randy Orton,
who has completely completely, I don't want to say, reinvented himself,

(01:04:05):
maybe reinvigorated himself and actually feels motivated and is on
another level that we all knew he could be at
had he actually again I hate to say it, but
actually felt like he was motivated over the last ten
years or so. How are you liking Randy Orton as
a heel right now? Just punk kicking everyone.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
I was such a huge fan of the Legend Killer gimmick,
and we're going way back with that, Like this is
back sixteen seventeen years ago. I loved the Legend Killer gimmick.
I just thought it was so brilliant how he was
able to work that in basically any segment every single week.
So that's what we're seeing now, Like you're right, it's

(01:04:44):
like reinvigorated. It's that same gimmick which works so well
back then to get.

Speaker 5 (01:04:49):
Him over for the first time.

Speaker 4 (01:04:51):
And it's kind of like he's doing that but like
two point zero and it's like he I don't know,
it's kind of like it's it's like he has this
new fire in him, which is so exciting to see.
Almost a shame that he's doing some of his best
work of his career, you know, in front of an
empty arena, because it's exciting to see this Randy Orton.

(01:05:12):
I'm a huge, huge Orton fan, so to be able
to see shades of the Orton that I first started loving,
you know, back in the ruthless Aggression era. It's great
to see this back and I'm excited to see what
happens from here.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
I am too.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
This to me is Randy Orton to me, for the
first time that I can remember in maybe five years
or more, is really making me.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Hate him as a character.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
And I mean that in a very complimentary way. I
don't mean that it is a channel changing or oh,
he's a cool heel.

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
I'm going to cheer him because he's cool.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
No, Like, I'm a thirty five year old guy that
has been watching wrestling since nineteen ninety seven. My very
first match I ever watched was Michael's and a Taker
in the very first Helen to sell. So to be
able to feel that heat, to be able to feel
like like he is a true heel right now that
you want to see somebody kick him in the head.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
And send him like send him to the hospital. Yeah,
that for the first time. Like again, I'm thirty five
years old, and I'm like, I want to see him get destroyed.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
To be able to believe even though we know it's
to work, this is what brings us to wrestling, is
this kind of heel heat, and Randy Orton has been
building heat and building heat for months and months and
months and months, and I am loving it. And he
kick Rick Flair, Sewn Michaels, Big Show, Christian Drew McIntyre
three times this past Monday. So like, right now, Randy

(01:06:36):
Orton is on another level and another stratosphere that I
can't wait to see when he finally gets what's coming
to him, how bad it's going to be. I don't
know how they pay this off without Randy Orton being
a bloody mess and being sent to the hospital. Like really,
that's how much heat he has on him right now.

Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
And I think we can all agree that Randy Orton
is so much of a better heel than he is
a baby.

Speaker 5 (01:07:00):
And that's not to say he's a bad baby face
at all. I just think Randy Orton the heel, there's
something magical there.

Speaker 4 (01:07:07):
There's something special there, and you talked about it's like
it's just it's on another level. When he gets to
do this work, it's almost like, I don't know, he
embraces being just a total dick and he's just so
good at it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
That's he, like you said, he is born to be heel.
It's like when Charlotte tries to play a babyface. So
when Seth Rollins tried to play a baby face, it's like, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
Not buying it, and I don't buy it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
They are just they they screen heel, and yet you're
trying to get me to believe that they're, you know,
somebody that I should get behind. And Randy Orton has
taken it and run with it. And like you said,
the fact that he's doing his best work now you
could look back and go, oh man, we could have
got this the whole time. I guess you know, like this,
and we all knew while he was kind of sleepwalking

(01:07:51):
through ten years of his career that he could be this.
We all knew it was there, that he just seemed
like he didn't care. He's kind of like the guy
in the doing a fifty five in the fifty five zone.
It's kind of like, yeah, I'm cruise of along. You know,
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna exert myself.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
But he's so good he can do that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
And so we're finally getting and seeing the potential of
Randy Orton and it's better late than never. I'm absolutely
loving this and I can't wait for Edges return.

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):
Whenever. That may be assumingly in the next month or two.

Speaker 4 (01:08:16):
Yeah, let's hope that soon.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Yeah, No, definitely. So as we kind of wrap things
up here, I gotta ask one thing about ae W two.
What do you think about MJF.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
Because I saw a little interaction with you and him
on YouTube.

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
Personally, you know, I can't stand him. Professionally, I think
that he's excellent at what he does, one of the
greatest heels that's working right now, mostly because there's really
no difference between MJF the person and MGF the wrestler.
And I think that at some point in time over

(01:08:53):
the next year, he will hold a championship, whether that's
the TNT championship.

Speaker 5 (01:08:57):
Maybe you know, at all out he becomes the world champion.

Speaker 4 (01:09:00):
But he's so so good, so bankable, and when you
put a mic in his hand, it's so hard to
not love to hate the guy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
This guy, to me, is going to be the reason
if it happens that AEW becomes an absolute like a
machine over the next couple of years, like he's going
to put them on his back and run. I mean,
he is, he is that talented, he's young, he's on
a mic, he doesn't stutter, he doesn't feel like he's

(01:09:33):
playing somebody else. He actually protects k Fabe. I have
not seen him do an interview where it's not MJF
that I see anaew. I mean, he's toned down a
little bit, but he's the same guy. I saw the
I think it was on Instagram or somewhere, him flipping
off a kid at a signing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
I mean, like, where do you see that?

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
And I mean it is it's magical to see him
go all in with this character that is probably a
lot of who he really is as a person when
the ca And that's awesome because this is something again,
you don't see this anywhere, at least to my knowledge,
that any other promotion about a performer wrestler caring about
what they see or what they do off social media

(01:10:12):
and heat Did they just go.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
And fans and no, it's not real. Who cares? This
guy is.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
All effing in And it's brilliant to see his whole
state of the I don't know if it was a
State of the Union and Jesse he did a couple
of weeks ago that got millions of views on YouTube, rightfully,
so I think was a career defining moment for him.
The way that he delivered it was brilliant. And so
this guy, to me scream star.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Regardless of what.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
You may think of him on a personal level, this
guy is going to be and holding a champion. Like
I said, I think he'll probably hold the belt at
all out and beat John Moxley. But this guy is
I think he rivals Randy Orton in some areas well.

Speaker 4 (01:10:52):
And I think that, you know, to kind of touch
on what we talked about with Randy Orton, these people
are great heels because it's fun to be a heel.
I think that MJF just leans into those parts of
his personality that you know, he realizes just fun and
he also realizes that if I do this, it makes
me slightly obnoxious, which will make people hate me even more.

Speaker 5 (01:11:14):
But you know, people always.

Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
Talk about I'MJF on the mic, which he's supremely talented
on the mic. He's also so good in the ring,
and one of the things I don't know if everybody
picks up on, but he's so good at making other
people look good. His selling is next level selling, like
triple H level selling, Like he makes people look so

(01:11:36):
so good, And I think that that's the true testament
to whether you're a star not. You know, anybody can
make themselves look good, but to be able to go
in there and make other people look good, that's when
you get to that next level.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
That is something that is so underspoken about and underrated.
I think in pro wrestling today that people just worry
about what got you gotta look good? No, you need
to make your opponent look good so that not only
will match be better because the selling's better, but also
you'll have more people want to work with you because
they want to make sure they look good too. I mean,
there is just no downside to doing that and the selling.

(01:12:09):
The selling is something that I think as an entire
industry could be improved. To me, the athletic presentation has
overtaken what emotional investment used to take the place of
like it's all about to me right now, it's not
all the time, but it's athleticism. It's spots, it's four
fifty splashes, it's ten suicide dives every match, And it

(01:12:29):
shouldn't be like it should be about the psychology the story,
slow down, make less mean more. So that would be
my one gripe about today's pro wrestling, even though I'll
be a fan for life, it's just one of those things.
So but again, I know we're kind of winding down here,
but some quick questions for you, I guess rapid fire here.

(01:12:50):
If you could interview somebody that you haven't yet, if
there is such a thing, who would you want to
Maybe somebody that's passed passed on, like Eddie Guerrero or
so forth. If there's one person that you could that's
alive or not that you could you'd love to be
able to speak with who to be.

Speaker 4 (01:13:06):
So there are lots of people that I haven't interviewed,
but number one on the top of that list is
vincig Man. And look, we wouldn't be having this conversation
right now, Matt.

Speaker 5 (01:13:15):
If it wasn't for what Vince created.

Speaker 4 (01:13:17):
So I'd love to have a conversation with him, not
necessarily about wrestling, but just as a businessman like Vince McMahon,
the entrepreneur is brilliant, and I would love to find
out what makes him tick in the same way that
I would love to find out what makes Steve Jobs
or Elon Musk or Oprah Winfrey tick, because I think that.

Speaker 5 (01:13:40):
Just you know, I think a lot of people kind of.

Speaker 4 (01:13:41):
Discount Oh yeah, but you know, he created this wrestling thing. Yeah, Hey,
he created this billion dollar company that really billion about
business that really didn't exist like it does now before him.
So I'd love to sit down with him and have
that conversation. It seems highly unlikely, but that's what i'd
love to do.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
All right, how about somebody that you've already spoken to
that you can't wait to talk to again.

Speaker 4 (01:14:06):
I love talking to Dolph Ziggler, and I've had so
many great conversations with him.

Speaker 5 (01:14:11):
We've talked to him about like twelve or fifteen times.

Speaker 4 (01:14:15):
So every time I talk to Ziggler, it's just a
great conversation. And he spends a little bit of time
in La His brother lives here. I now live here,
So it sounds like this thing could happen sooner rather
than later.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
All right, where do you or where is your channel going?
Where are your podcast going? Do you have an idea
of maybe where you want to be in a few years?
This sounds like a job interview question, but it's more.
I mean, it's not like, hey, where do you see
yourself in five years? But really, I mean I guess
as a whole your brand, where would you like it
to go?

Speaker 4 (01:14:44):
Well, I always say vague goals get vague results. So
for me to just say something like I want it
to grow, you know, that would be extremely vague. I
want to get a million of describers, and I'm not
that close right now, so it's a pretty lofty goal
to say that. But I'd like to have a million
subscribers for my YouTube channel. I'd like my podcast to

(01:15:04):
be in the top ten of the wrestling podcast and
it's up there sometimes, but I would like to be
up there with you know, Jericho and yeah, First Pitcher,
all of Conrad's shows. Really, I mean he's got.

Speaker 3 (01:15:19):
I know, he's killing He's killing me.

Speaker 5 (01:15:21):
I know, maybe that should be a specific goal.

Speaker 4 (01:15:23):
Get Conrad to be my co host, and then my
show just shoots up ten number one.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
They have to talk to Jim Ross about that. I mean,
I love their show. I mean, they've got a great show.
I'm not knocking them.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
They are great.

Speaker 4 (01:15:33):
Oh everything that Conrad does in the wrestling world is gold,
So nothing but respect for him. So I think that
I also just want I want the wrestling and my
YouTube channel, my podcast to be one of the things
that I do. I moved to Los Angeles because I'm
a TV host and this is the place where entertainment happens.
So I want to be doing more hosting. I want

(01:15:55):
to host a national show. I'd like to be in
more movies. I've had really small roles in movies. So
hopefully in five years we could be talking about my
million subscribers, my Apple Top two hundred podcast, my movie
role that's coming out, and my national TV show that
I'm hosting. That's the plan.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
All right, it's a good application. We'll take it under invisement.
We'll call you back, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:16:19):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
So last two questions very quickly, who's your favorite wrestler?
Got to ask currently or of all time, all time.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
Any to any era, all the time, all times.

Speaker 4 (01:16:31):
The rock, just because of the rock could make anything
look cool and sound cool. And while there was a
time there in two thousand, two thousand and one when
we knew how every rock promo would start and end,
I mean, let's be honest, we knew that every promo
was going to start with finally the rock, and then

(01:16:52):
it would end with if you smelled the rocks cooking
Everything in between that was always so original and so
entertaining that we look back twenty years later now and go.

Speaker 5 (01:17:02):
Oh, man, we'll never see that again. It was so so,
so good.

Speaker 3 (01:17:07):
We took so much for granted. I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
Last question, do you have a favorite moment, a favorite match?

Speaker 4 (01:17:13):
Yes, yes I do, And I was there wrestlemana eighteen
Rock Hogan. I was in the sixteenth row, and I
mean I got goosebumps when I talk about it because
it was just so special being part of that crowd,
that crowd reaction there. And it's funny many years later,

(01:17:34):
first time I interviewed The Rock, I was in twenty twelve.
I said, you know, I was there. I was there
Rock versus Hogan. He's like, oh, yeah, who were you
cheering for?

Speaker 5 (01:17:44):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:17:44):
No, oh no.

Speaker 3 (01:17:46):
I was, Uh, that's a return the meal for Hogan.

Speaker 4 (01:17:49):
He goes, yeah, so is I.

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
Oh that's such a rock thing to say.

Speaker 4 (01:17:55):
I love it so And you know, quickly I told
the same thing to Hogan. I interviewed Hogan for the
first time and I said, I gotta ask you.

Speaker 5 (01:18:03):
I gotta ask you.

Speaker 4 (01:18:04):
At the end of that match, did you know that
the nWo was going to come out? And beat you up,
and he goes, I had no idea, brother, and he goes.
The ref just told me to stay in the ring,
which I thought was weird because it was Rock's moment.
Rocket won the match, and I just thought that was
so crazy that they called a complete audible on that
that Hogan wasn't supposed to turn face.

Speaker 5 (01:18:24):
That was just supposed to be a match and that
was what it was.

Speaker 4 (01:18:27):
But they saw the reaction that Hogan got that they
called that last minute audible. The ref told him, Mike
Kyota told him stay in the ring, and the nWo
came out the last second beat him up, and all
of that was completely unplanned, which blew my mind.

Speaker 5 (01:18:41):
To hear Hogan tell me that story like in person.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
That is awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
I actually did not know that, so that is I
did not know that that was an audible. So that's
pretty damn cool to know. And hopefully you get a
chance to talk with him again.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
I mean I should.

Speaker 4 (01:18:56):
I should probably like turn the camera on when he
tells me that story next time.

Speaker 5 (01:19:00):
Yeah, just like it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:03):
Was an interview I was about to do with him
and Flair, and we were waiting for Flair to come
in the room. We had maybe a minute waiting for
Flair to come in, and he told me that story
really quick, and I'm like, oh, I wish we had
this on video.

Speaker 3 (01:19:16):
Oh man, Yeah, well yeah, I'm sure you get it.
Just you got contact, I'm sure you can get it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, your people will call his people.

Speaker 4 (01:19:25):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
So all right, Well, Chris, it's been an absolute honor.
You got the Personality of the Year honor from the
Broadcaster Hall of Fame back in twenty twelve.

Speaker 3 (01:19:35):
I saw that. That's pretty damn cool.

Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
And so you have definitely interviewed household names multiple times,
and it's been an absolute honor to have you on
the show, to hear your perspectives, to hear different interviews
that you've done over the years and moments and your
favorite wrestler and everything else, and especially the current products
as many of my fans are really passionate about.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
So Chris, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:19:59):
And again and before you go, I mean, let everyone
know like where they can find you, and you know
the upcoming shows that you have going on.

Speaker 4 (01:20:07):
Well, thank you, Matt, thank you for having me on.
Like big congrats to you on everything you've done. Like
number one to be able to have a show called
the WWE podcast is brilliant. It is brilliant. So and
just congrats to the success you've had. And I think
that you treat your show seriously. Your podcast sounds like
a radio show, and I think that that's the best

(01:20:29):
compliments you can get in this world of podcastings. So
congrats to you. Thank you for spending this last hour
with me.

Speaker 5 (01:20:36):
I've had such a great time.

Speaker 4 (01:20:37):
And anybody listening to this can find my show, the
Chris faan Leak Show wherever you're listening to this, and
I'm at Chris fan vleeked anywhere.

Speaker 5 (01:20:45):
On social media and also on YouTube as well.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
Awesome, and don't forget to check out. As you said,
you're interviewing Matt Hardy next Tuesday, so that'll be yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:20:53):
So my upcoming interviews, I have Matt Hardy, I have
Billy k coming up. A fascinating conversation with Daniel Peter.
We get into that whole current Angle situation which was
actually supposed to lead to a UFC fight, which I
don't know if anybody knows this, So that's a really
interesting conversation. And speaking of UFC, I just had a
conversation this morning with the current UFC heavyweight Champion Steve Amochic.

Speaker 5 (01:21:17):
Which is just a great chat.

Speaker 4 (01:21:19):
So lots of stuff coming up, and again, Matt, thank
you so much for inviting me on the show.

Speaker 3 (01:21:25):
Absolutely anytime, and it's been an absolute pleasure. Hope we
get to do this again.

Speaker 4 (01:21:30):
Let's do it again. I'd love to.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Hey, you tell me so. I have my people again,
my people call yours and will be good.

Speaker 4 (01:21:37):
Yeah I get this job.

Speaker 3 (01:21:38):
Yeah yeah, no, I said you're in the running up.
We'll take an under advisement. Thanks so much, Chris, I
appreciate you.

Speaker 5 (01:21:46):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
Have a good night you too, all right,

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