6 YEARS AGO: WWE Week in Review - Ziggler vs Goldberg? The Value of Mid-Card Belts & Kofi Not Feeling Like a True WWE Champion? - The WWE Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Today, I'm joined by my co host, Anthony DeMarco, where
we cover absolutely everything from this week in WWE, including
a very controversial brand about Koche kinksons ww champion.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
It all starts right now.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Welcome to the WWE Podcast, your place for the most
passionate wrestling analysis on the web.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Just turn Roman Heel. What is WWE waiting for another
wrestling podcast? Put you to sleep?

Speaker 3 (00:28):
You can count on the WWE Podcast to keep you
engaged and asking for more.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
I've been watching wrestling for over twenty years and that
was one of the best matches I've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
This is unlike any other wrestling analysis. So without any
further delay, let's get the show started right now.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Welcome to your Thursday edition of the WWE Podcast. That
means I am joined by a co host, and today
it is Anthony DeMarco. And what a great conversation. And
I know they say that every week, but this was
a very good conversation. And the reason for that is
we know we got super in depth about a couple
of things, and one of them being Kobe Kingston is

(01:11):
w W Champion and why we actually don't believe he belongs.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
As w W champion. So oh boy.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, I know that some of you out there going,
what what are you guys talking about? I need to
hear this. Well, don't worry, you get to hear it.
And we're not just creating controversy to create controversy. This
is our These are our true feelings and how we
actually feel. We're not scripted, right, so we're not WWE's
creative process. We are just shooting from the hipp as
Paul Hayman would say, and we certainly get into depth.

(01:40):
I think it was about twenty minutes plus just on
that specific topic of Kobe Kingson's w W Champion, so
you're not gonna want to miss that. We cover everything
from Ricochet as a number one contender for the United
States Championship, du Tritian, Charlotte Ziegler versus the mizz and
the possibility of Goldberg getting involved, Maria can n Ellis's
twenty four seven Champion, Roman's Mystery Attacker, Brocks beat down

(02:04):
of Seth. I mean, we cover a to Z from
this week, and that's what I love about the show.
It's my favorite show of the week, and I think
you guys will enjoy it too. So again, guys, though,
just a couple of things before the show gets underway,
and that is to check out the website wwepodcast dot
com because on there you guys can see every podcast

(02:24):
or hear every podcast, and new articles that go up
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(02:47):
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(03:11):
I am on there for your listening pleasure. Again, none
of the feeds are changing. I'll still be on everywhere
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(03:34):
really excited to be beginning my relationship with them. So
check out Red Circle and subscribe to my feed there.
I really appreciate that. So, guys, with all that underway
and all that out of the way, I should say,
here is my conversation with Anthony DeMarco. As we just
cover everything, and I hope you enjoy it. And if

(03:55):
you'd like to throw me some feedback, you can email
the show at Real WWE Podcast at GMA or on
Twitter at the WWE Podcast if you so choose. So,
without any further delay, let's get right into the conversation.
All right, guys, it is that time of the week.
It is Thursday, and that means I have a co
host with me, and this week Anthony DeMarco joins me.

(04:16):
Always a great time, always a good conversation. Again, I
have chemistry with all of my co hosts. That's why
I love them all. And this week Anthony DeMarco joins me,
and we have no shortage of things to talk about.
Between Kevin Owens beating Drew McIntyre, Trish and Charlotte Harley
Race who passed away at seventy six years old, Brock
beating down South. I mean, we're gonna get into it all.

(04:38):
But at this time, Anthony, i'd like to welcome you
back to the show. It's great to have you.

Speaker 4 (04:42):
Great to be here, Matt.

Speaker 5 (04:43):
I'm really looking forward to this week. I'm excited to
get into it. A lot of positivity I feel coming
our way, coming the show's way tonight. So yeah, I
can't wait to get into this and dissect everything.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, and you said it, that's kind of a good
way to put it, is. Yeah, A lot of times
I really tried my hardest to not just kill the product.
It's easy to poke holes and things, it's easy to criticize.
And this was a week that I thought was much
more positive than usual, and in a week that felt
like it progressed a lot of storylines as were amazingly

(05:18):
only a week away from SummerSlam. As we talked about
off the air, SummerSlam feels like it's coming. Two weeks
earlier this year, and they did a lot of good
things this week, of course, not without its flaws and
weird things and quirks and pregnant champions and things that
are just bizarre, but of course it was a week

(05:38):
that really I think as a whole, had a lot
of good and really built a lot of momentum towards
Summer Slam.

Speaker 5 (05:47):
Yeah, I really liked it. You could see that they
were trying to go in a different direction. You mentioned,
you know, one of your earlier shows in this week
that it was well noted that Paul Aimon really had.

Speaker 4 (05:58):
A grasp on this money a girl, and it showed.

Speaker 5 (06:01):
It was you know, they starting a starting off Monday
Night Raw with the match of just the twenty four
seven belt, and no matter how you feel about that,
it just showed promise that not only did they start
the match with something other than.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
Roman Reigns or Shane McMahon, it.

Speaker 5 (06:17):
Was something different, but it was also a wrestling match.
I remember there was a time where the first thing
you would hear when the show started was either Triple
H's King of Kings music or Stephanie McMahon's whatever her
weird theme song is. But that was like a year
long thing and it was just so nice to get
right into wrestling. And am I the biggest fan of

(06:39):
the twenty four seven Championship. No, it's kind of corky
and whatnot and hokey and whatever you want to call it,
but at least it was something different. And I like
seeing Drake Maverick and Artruth have an actual wrestling match,
you know, not just you know, having roll ups in
miscellaneous places throughout the the building and just you know,

(07:01):
the brawl at the end of Raw, even though I
have a bit of negativity to get to that, but
we'll get to that down the road. But like the
braw at the end of Raw, the big beat down
a brack, it just seemed like it was kind of
like we went through time work and it was just
a show that was constructed almost like to ten fifteen
years ago.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
It did it.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
It just felt different because we don't always need that
twenty minute promo to open Raw that's gonna end up
in somebody interrupting, which ends up in a match that's
the main event. It doesn't always have to be that formula.
It's a formula that has worked, but the problem is
that it's so predictable that on a show called raw,
and I've mentioned this before, when you have a show

(07:41):
called raw, raw has felt anything but uncut and raw.
It has felt very polished, very controlled, very contrived, very
too perfect, too constructed, too much of a structure. I mean,
you have something like this as as minute as it
may be, it sends the message that hey, we hear you,
let's change things up. It may not be something drastic.

(08:03):
It could be something as simple as what they did
this week, starting off with a wrestling match on a
wrestling show.

Speaker 4 (08:11):
Yeah, and that's exactly it.

Speaker 5 (08:13):
And it just and it felt like the ball just
got rolling from there, which I really liked, and it
just translate into match after match, and it just felt
like it flowed perfectly, like you had little backstage segments
here and there, but one match the other like flowed
like even the gauntlet.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
Match and the one.

Speaker 5 (08:31):
Let's say, a bit of criticism I will have is
that although I liked all the matches, and for the
most part, I liked all the segments, they still like
the story behind it doesn't really make too much sense,
Like I didn't really get how, you know, like how
each of these competitors qualified for the gauntlet match, but
I still liked it.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
It was different.

Speaker 5 (08:51):
I liked all the wrestlers competing besides Sammu Zaine, who's
just becoming a jobber very quickly, but we'll let that
one go for now. But everything just felt to roll.
It felt natural. It felt, like you said, like an
actual wrestling show, and the matches were entertaining. The spot
that the segment with brock Lesner was just almost like

(09:12):
a time war because we never see stuff like that anymore,
and even the brawl at the end of Raw, which
I wouldn't have closed the show with that, but we
do know that Roman Rains has to end the show
as he did on Smack Him.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
But again, in a nutshell, I liked that brawl too.

Speaker 5 (09:28):
But yeah, it just seemed so natural and just it
didn't Nothing of the show felt forced, and that's what
I liked about it.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
I mean, there's something to be said for a wrestling
show having wrestling on it, and it's crazy to say
something like that, but we have been so accustomed and
educated by years and years and years of WWE using
the same formula on their shows. Of it seems sixty
or seventy percent promos and backstage skits and terrible attempts

(09:59):
at comedy and less focus on the wrestling because I
feel at times that WWE has tried to run from
their own identity of being a wrestling company. But they
are a wrestling company, whether they want to be or
not or try to dress it up that they're not.
They are a wrestling company that provides entertainment through wrestling,

(10:19):
and they will run from that and they will go
to the grave Vince McMahon will go to the grave
saying we're not a wrestling company. But they are, whether
they want to say it or not, and that they are.
And when they just embrace the fact that fans are
here to watch wrestling, and the show's reaction and feedback
from fans then reflects that positivity. You did something right. Yes,

(10:41):
ratings dropped twenty five percent from the previous week when
they had the Raw reunion, But can that really be
an accurate view or an accurate representation of wrestling being
a focal point of the show to the right ratings
dropping twenty five percent, No, you can't, because clearly the
our power from the Raw reunion is it's an unfair

(11:04):
way to assess a drop by saying, oh wow, it's
because of the it's because of the wrestling. Maybe there's
not enough entertainment. There's not enough of the entertainment and
the sports entertainment, which is nonsense, of course. So I
love the show. Like you said, it flowed very nicely.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
It flowed in a way that felt.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Like, hey, you know, I want to be told a
story with your actions in the ring, listening to commentary
rather than backstage and twenty minute promos and things like that.
So what I want to start off with, because I
think it's probably the biggest talking point coming out of Raw,
is of course, the brock Lesnar beatdown of Seth Rollins
and my quick overview of it, and then I'll toss

(11:43):
the mic to you is I thought it was again
a throwback, that's a good way to put it. It
felt uncomfortable, which was what it was supposed to be,
and being uncomfortable watching something makes it memorable. It made
me go, oh my god, like Seth feels like he
could actually be injured. I can't remember the last time

(12:04):
somebody used the chair in that way of setting it up,
seating it and then having somebody be thrown on the
brim of the seat. I mean that is its high risk,
and I mean, from all everything I'm reading, Seth isn't
actually injured. Of course, I'll come out with taped ribs
and all that kind of thing. But I loved it.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
It was brutal.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
I didn't see Brock coming out for the second beating
after he invaded the ambulance. It felt like it added
so much to this rivalry that needed it desperately. It
added fire and intrigue. It felt like it was something
that should have been a Summer Slam main event, and
it gave the attention that it deserved. And I can't
wait to see SummerSlam to see how this match goes.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
What did you think about this segment?

Speaker 5 (12:48):
I thought it was excellent. It was perfectly placed from
the fact that he interrupted an A plus match, again
like Seth and Golf always, due to the other point
that he was unadvertised. I loved how Haydn was like
pleading with him to stop.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
It made it feel real.

Speaker 5 (13:06):
I liked how like the assault was almost never ending.
You touched on one of your shows earlier this week,
a reviewing Raw, where you said how like the ambulance
didn't just drive off. Brock was waiting for him, and
that F five on the stretcher man that looked like
it really hurt.

Speaker 4 (13:21):
And I think this rivalry.

Speaker 5 (13:23):
Needed it because Okay, yeah we had got the cash
and and everything, but the last time we had saw
these guys, they had just stared at each other from
up and down the ramp after Seth had won the
Number one Contenders match. So it also begs the question of, like,
bro this was like an unprovoked attack by Brock. It
wasn't like Seth that got the better of them the
last time that they saw each other. And that's what

(13:45):
I liked about because it was so unexpected after Seth,
you know, beat him at the Mania and low blowed
him and hit him with the curbs on like we
knew Brock was gonna be seeking revenge. But Brock was
the last one to get the one up on step
set here.

Speaker 4 (14:01):
Sorry, Steph is my girlfriend exactly, So yeah, Brock.

Speaker 5 (14:08):
Was the last one to get the one up on
set So Brock didn't have a score to settle here,
and that's why it came out with such left field
like he no, he just hates Seth Browns and he
wants to show how dominant he is, and he just
beat the no beat the EXPLICITI out of him. And
the only concern I have, actually, I don't have a

(14:31):
concern for it, but maybe w might is that I
feel like Brock when he pulls these attacks, it gets
them so over with the crowd, it gets them over
with me.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
It seems like it gets over with you. And I
just wonder, like, I'm not.

Speaker 5 (14:46):
Sure how it's gonna how the crowd is gonna react
in Toronto at Sumberslam, because the crowd maybe because it's
like a time warp and we don't see this kind
of stuff a lot. I'm just worried maybe the crowd
may flock to Brock because of these kind of attacks Popoles.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
I mean, it's a that's a very good point. I
mean it's interesting too, because how how you know, how
long were we all saying, oh my god, we're all
just tired of Brock, Oh my god, Brock's back again,
and we were getting tired of the same old act.
And for weeks and weeks and weeks and months even
we were saying Brock needs to change up his act,
he needs to do something different. It's the same thing
that Brock does. He comes out, he stands there, he

(15:23):
makes his little smirks, he does his bounce, he does
his Brock party, and Paul Haymond cuts a promo. I mean,
that's essentially the formula of Brock Lesner for months now,
and I've been saying he needs to do something different,
he needs to get physical, maybe have a match on
Raw for the first time since he did he came
back in twenty twelve, and while it wasn't a match,

(15:44):
I'm flying with it because it made Brock's appearance impactful.
You will remember this. It made it. It progressed the
storyline with Seth and Brock about six steps ahead from
when you when Raw began. When Raw began, you were thinking, oh, yeah, okay,
well it's Brock versus Seth. You know, we'll see, we'll

(16:05):
see if Seth Rollins can overcome Brock without any low blows.
And now you're thinking, oh my god, is this WWE's
way of either a trying to find an excuse if
Seth loses as a babyface to the big, stronger heel
of brock Lesner, that could be Seth's out or is
it be now Seth has a huge mountain to climb

(16:26):
on top of trying to defeat brock Lesner at the
same time and cementing Seth rollins in that position of
trying to regain the United States or the Universal Championship.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Is this that I mean?

Speaker 1 (16:39):
So there's two roads that they can take with this
quote injury that he will. I mean, you have to
sell this injury. That's the whole point of this too,
is you have to have his ribs taped. You have
to have brock Lesner targeting those ribs at SummerSlam, and
you're thinking, oh my god, there's just no way that
Seth can win this.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
So there's really two ways.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
And do I see Seth ree gaining the belt at SummerSlam? Probably,
but is it totally on the realm possibility brock retains
and Vince falls back in love with Brock and we
have a long Raining Championship run again with Rock till WrestleMania.
I would not put it past Vince McMahon. But this
is Vince McMahon utilizing brock Lezer in a way that
is called maximizing your dollars, and that is how you

(17:20):
use brock LESSU plus. As a side note, I really
loved the just right amount of blood. It wasn't overdone,
it was real and it was effective.

Speaker 5 (17:31):
Yeah, And I like what you said that they've opened
up a lot of avenues here because there are two
prior matches in this feud, because I know a few
years ago when Seth was the heel, they had a match,
but in this particular feud, as WrestleMania, it was a match,
but it wasn't really a match. Most of it happened
before the bell rang, and then when broadcashed in, well

(17:53):
that wasn't really a match either. And I feel like
this match at Summerslunt they're building for is probably the
best built story, even more so than the one that
they had at WrestleMania, because now there's all this history
and this beatdown, and how is Seth gonna overcome his
injuries and will he try and go back to the
low blow, which I doubt they'll do that again, but

(18:13):
it just opens up a lot of avenues that they
can take this. I'm anxious to see if they actually
have a legit style match because at least in this feud,
like I mentioned, they have yet to do that. I
just love the way that they that they've executed this.
It's rare that you see Brocks show up when he's
unadvertised excuse me. And I just think that Brocks, like,

(18:36):
when he's utilized the right way, people fall in love
with him. And even when people or they gravitate to
him because of that kind of that polarizing character. And
I know people act like they're fed up with him,
but when you use him the right way, it's hard
not to be attracted to that style of character. And
Seth is a guy who's completely over with the crowd.

(18:56):
And this actually feels like a legit main event that
I'm want to be invested in.

Speaker 4 (19:01):
And I think, kudos w W. They've done a really
good job billing this match.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
They have, And like you just said too, I mean,
this does feel like a legiti main event. With one
Runday Night raw Up to this point, it was just
kind of on paper a main event, but I didn't
feel like it was a main event. This made me
feel like it was a main event. I was glued
to the TV. I was cringing along with Seth. There

(19:27):
was points where I go, oh my god, like is
he really gonna five them again? Like, Okay, how many
times can you do the F five on the chair
or on the stretcher or the gurney and not risk
actual injury. I mean it was uncomfortable as hell to watch,
but that also made it what was great at the
same time. And for Brock to show up unadvertised in
Little Rock Arkansas, of all places, this isn't you know, Chicago,

(19:49):
this isn't La New York, Miami. This is Little Rock
at freaking Arkansas. And Brock shows up unadvertised. That's how
you stick to and are true to the name Monday
Night Raw. When you feel like anything can happen. I
don't always want legends and big returns and big names advertised.
I don't need that. I like when it's not advertised

(20:11):
because what it does is make fans feel, oh, I
gotta tune in. I need to see what happens. Like
I mean, if they were gonna, if they were gonna
put somebody big on RAW, they would have surely told
us ahead of time that so and so is gonna
be on Raw to try to people draw people in.
But the way you really draw people and is not
by telling them to make them feel like they have
to watch every single show to see what could possibly happen,

(20:31):
and that feeling of anything could happen at any time
has all but died over the last few years, and
so Brock to show up on advertise.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
I love the way Brock was used. I love the
uncomfortability of the beatdown that we haven't seen and I
don't even know how long. I love the use of
the blood just the right amount. It's certainly teetered on
TVPG slash TVPG thirteen. They certainly are starting to stretch
what TVPG is defined as. And I'm totally cool with that.

(21:02):
I don't need these soft matches that are just you know,
the flip flops and all that kind of stuff like
and and I know ricochet is the embodiment of that,
but I enjoy straight out violence every once in a while.
And the last point I'll make about that is Brock Lesner,
as you just said, is a legitimate badass and a

(21:23):
guy that the crowd could turn to support at any
given moment, particularly in Toronto, because he is a guy
that doesn't need to cheat to win. He is got
all the actual real credentials of being a true badass
that people love to see. And he's the biggest star
WWE has so does WW needs to be careful a

(21:45):
little bit?

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Maybe?

Speaker 1 (21:47):
I think they do. I don't think it's a foregone
conclusion brock Lesner gets cheered, but it's a possibility. They
just WW needs to be careful here how he's portrayed
moving forward?

Speaker 5 (21:57):
Yeah, And we just spent what was it five to
ten minutes talking about how great this segment was. Why
did it not end the show? That's what I don't understand.
And it's the following segment, which I said that I
liked in a nutshell. I found it a good segment,
but how are you supposed to follow that up? And
you're building Brock and Seth as your main event, but

(22:21):
then you end it with a Samoan summit, which I
don't even know what it is.

Speaker 4 (22:26):
And it just.

Speaker 5 (22:27):
Felt that was maybe the only aspect of the show
that I felt was forced, not even the segment, but
like the placement of the segment, like trying to force
us to care about Samoa, Joe and Roman going head
ahead for the hundredth time.

Speaker 4 (22:43):
And I didn't really understand why. It was almost like
shooting themselves in the foot.

Speaker 5 (22:48):
And I get it that maybe the segment with Broun
concepts was so good that it didn't have to mean
event in the show and it wouldn't be hurt by it.
But this segment, the Simoonan Summit slash brawl of miscellaneous wrestlers,
I felt it hurt that because the crowd was almost deflated,
like all the energy had been sucked out, and at

(23:09):
least from my standpoint, the fact that it was just
kind of a whole mishmash type of characters thrown together
like THEOC for some reason wing the Samoa Chumman drew.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
But that's not really a big deal.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
But that was the one thing I didn't understand as
to why they didn't end Money Night Raw with the
Brock concept.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Second, I'll give you two reasons, and I think this
is what it is. I don't agree with it, but
I think this is the reason. One WWE and Vince
McMahon are obsessed with making sure that they put smiles
on people's faces, and they want to make sure that
the go home segment put a smile on somebody's face
of the Babyface's standing tall. And number two Roman Rains,

(23:50):
I mean, do I need to say any more than
that Roman Rains is whether they want to admit it
or not, still the focus of WWE. Look at how
the shows are laid out. Look at SmackDown Live the
next night, and we'll talk about that. I'm sure too
soon about with the whole thing with Roman Reigns and
the weird I don't know, like the scaffolding and all
the things stuff falling on them.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Roman Reigns is.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Still whether they actually book him as such in the
defined main event in air quotes, he is still the
focal point and main event of ww E. Like, even
though he may not have the belt. And I said
this on my shows all week, all roads still lead
to Roman Reigns. It's still the case. And that's simply it.

(24:35):
They want to put smiles on people's faces and that
Seth Rollins is not Roman Reigns. And it's unfortunate because
I think this show was deserving in the main event
and whether it was actually defined in that spot or not,
Let's be honest. This brock Lesner Seth Rowlands segment was
the true main event, even if it wasn't actually in
the in the writing of the show as such.

Speaker 5 (25:00):
Well, I like what you said about whether or not
he has the belt. All roads lead to him, because
I've gotten to the point with Roman Reigns that I
almost prefer when he has either the Universal Championship or
w W Championship, because as you mentioned, he's always going
to be the main focus.

Speaker 4 (25:18):
So if he is, at least put the belt on him.
Don't try and fool us and have this smoke and
mirrors thing.

Speaker 5 (25:25):
Because when you insist on Roman Reigns main eventing every
show every week, it almost discounts the major championships, which
I hate. I really like the championships to mean something,
and let's say on SmackDown more so, right now, I
feel like the Roman Reigns, whoever he's gonna fight at

(25:45):
Summerslime is being booked higher than Kofi and Randy Orton.
And that's the point where I'm not a Roman Reigns guy.
I respect the wrestler, but I'm just not a fan
of the character. But if you are gonna insist with
them every week on Raw and SmackDown, then just put

(26:05):
the belt on him.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
At least make the belt feel worthy of something.

Speaker 5 (26:09):
Don't make the major championships take back seats to Roman
Rains's miscellaneous feuds with either Seay McMahon or Drew McIntyre
or Smoe Joe. I don't want to feel that a
random feud that's just based on you know, just ego
is more important than the major world titles. And when
they don't have the belt on Roman Reigns, it seems

(26:31):
like that's what it is. We saw it in Orlando
at Wrestling in thirty three. He main evented the show
with the Undertaker, and I understand that that was I
would assume was supposed to be the change of the
Guard passing the torch, but Rock and Hogan didn't even
main event wrestling at eighteen, so when they did that
with Rains and Taker main eventing, it was another thing like, Okay,

(26:53):
well this match feels more important than Bray and Randy
Jordan for the WWE title, or I think it was
Brock and Goldberg.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
So that's the one greg I have.

Speaker 5 (27:04):
If they're good to push Roman Reigns is the top
baby faced star, which seems like it's never going to end,
then just make them hold the belt for more times
than not, at least make the belt feel moor something
and it.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, the thing is all I agree with what you said.
I just feel as if at all times whatever is
going on that doesn't involve Roman and anybody that doesn't
hold the belt that's not named Roman Reigns. It's just
kind of a side show, afterthought. In some ways, like that,
Vince McMahon is sitting back and saying, yeah, Seth, you

(27:40):
can hold the belt for a little while, distract the
fans from their perception of us trying to shove Roman
down our throats. You hold the belt for a while
and make them think we're not focusing on Roman right now.
But don't worry, My real focus is still in Roman Reigns.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Wink wink.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
I mean, it just feels that way, and they consistently
show you that by having him main event even if
he's not holding the belts, and it takes away from
the championship value, as you just said, and that's not
what I want. And it's just Vince McMahon's absolute obsessionsess,
it's beyond an obsession of this point of trying to

(28:17):
get Roman Reigns to that Rock and Austin level, which
is never ever going to happen. I can guarantee you
it will not happen because of his number one, his
refusal to turn him heel and number two his I
don't think Roman Reigns has the demeanor or that it
factor that Stone Cold and Austin did. I just I
just have that gut feeling that it's no matter what's

(28:40):
going on, Roman Reigns is still the focal point of
Vince McMahon, and it's it's just maybe it's just me
being paranoid after years and years of frustration of how
they've booked Roman Reigns. But that's just how I feel.
And all right, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna move on
a little bit here and talk about all something really
good too and Ricochet winning the Gauntlet match to face

(29:02):
aj Styles for the United States Championship. I will say
I think that this is the right choice. I think
that they could have an outstanding match at SummerSlam, which
I'm really looking forward to. And I don't even know
if I really believe that Ricochet could recapture the belt here,
but I'm focus really on how good this match could be.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
Yeah, well, these two clearly have great chemistry.

Speaker 5 (29:26):
I agree that Rickkoschet was the right choice to go
up against Styles for the US title. I feel like
this rivalry still has something to be desired. The book
isn't fully closed on it. I expect ag Sells to win.
I hope he does. I think Styles is a good
guy to elevate the relevancy of the US title like
he did two years ago on SmackDown in his view
with Kevin Owens.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
But yeah, I think.

Speaker 5 (29:48):
Ricochet and him really feed off each other, like emotionally
and in the ring work.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
So I like the Gauntlets match as well. I found
it was really well done.

Speaker 5 (30:00):
I've found all the superstars like played a vital role
in it, and I'm really looking forward to this match
because more so than anything else, which is something I
can't say for the Intercontinental Championship, is that the United
States Championship feels relevant right now because it main evented RAW.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
A few times. AJ Styles has been holding it.

Speaker 5 (30:18):
They had a five man gauntlet match that had some
pretty significant names in it to see who would be
the number one contender. They're really pushing the United States
Championship to mean something, and I think that a lot
has to do with Ricochet being, as you've mentioned, the
embodiment of kind of like that new style of wrestling,
and AJ Styles, who everyone just seems to love and

(30:39):
their styles no puns tended in the ring mesh really well,
I'm looking forward to it and most of all, and
I know I've said it before with the Universal Championship,
I like when the titles are valued and they mean something,
and I really feel like the US title is highly
coveted right now.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
It is, and it's a title that has a fraction
of the lineage of the Intercontinental title of Shinsky Nakamura
being the holder of that, yet he feels, you know,
light years away from how aj Styles feels as United
States Champion, and it's such a shame. I know that
we've talked about it before of just how far Shinsky

(31:21):
Nakamar has fallen.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
And I appreciate the reach the.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Attempted revival of Shinskan Nakamura by putting the belt on him,
I appreciate that. You know, it's certainly has put him
in more of a relevant conversation in terms of the
w W storyline and narrative than he has been in
a very long time.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
And I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
And now he's in this program with Ali, and Ali
got this w the ww special of the role up
win that was supposed to be I guess labeled as
a Fluke. I mean that's how I guess we're supposed
to look at roll up victories, and I'd like Ali's style.
This is another match for their the mid tier belt

(32:06):
on the SmackDown end that could, if motivated enough and
given enough time, could also be a hell of a
match if if really, I think Shinsky is the one
that needs to be motivated here. I think Ali is
young and hungry and has more than his ability to
do it. But Ali, right now, he's kind of the
ricochet of SmackDown Live, and I really am looking forward

(32:28):
to this. At least I'm trying to be realistic because
I understand that Shinzky is nowhere near the focal point
of w But if they get ten, twelve to fifteen minutes,
this could be a hell of a match and could
elevate both guys no matter who wins or loses.

Speaker 5 (32:44):
I'm hoping it's on on the pre show for what
you just said, because I think there is a lot
of potential. The one thing that I struggle with is
going to invest into this story because they just kind
of had a non title match and I find they
kind of me knackmore, kind of look like a fool
like he he missed the Kinshaw so what three times
and then was rolled up to win. So that kind

(33:05):
of hurt the credibility at me looking forward in terms
of hype for the match, because like they kind of
made the champion living a pool and then Ali looked
shocked that he won, which I hate. I hate when
guys win and they look shocked that they won. It's like, what,
you don't give yourself any credit? But I won't go
off on attentionent there, but uh, in terms of the

(33:27):
two wrestlers in the ring, I really like both of them.
I think Ali would have gotten a major push if
he hadn't gotten hurt right right before elimination Chamber. Obviously
Nacimore is second to none in the ring, but I
just I struggle a bit with getting invested into the
story because there just hasn't really been that much. So
we touched on the US title. Not only does Ricochet

(33:49):
have a backstory with aj styles that we could like
feed off of, but he had that five man gauntlet
match and on SmackDown. I don't know why they don't
do more of that.

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Be honest.

Speaker 5 (34:00):
Ever since this wild card rule came in, I kind
of struggled to keep track of who is on SmackDown.
But let's just say there were concrete guys that are there.
They could have used maybe like a fatal four way
elimination or a five van gauntlet match. It just to show, like,
you know, the path that the challenger got to, not
that he avoided three kinshasses and had.

Speaker 4 (34:22):
To roll up when that he shocked himself into doing.

Speaker 5 (34:24):
But although I'm struggling to look forward to the match
because the story is lacking, I think that once these
two are in the match, they'll they'll tell a great story.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Inside the rim, That's where the story's going to lie.
That's where the success of this match lies is in
the ability, not of the backstory, because there really isn't
isn't one. I when you think about how this this
program we even started, it was shins K saying he's
like a storm and the bottle broke and he's gonna
rain down chaos or something weird. And then he you know,

(34:54):
when they when they asked who his next opponent could be,
it just happened to be Eli was standing there staring
at him. I think it was something as lame as that.
So there's zero backstory for this, and as you said,
oh my god, he's he's Ali is shocked that he
got a victory, and that's just the reaction of every
single roll up when as you said, and I'm really
really struggling to not go on a tangent on that too,

(35:15):
but it is. It is going to be reliant completely
on Shinsk and Ali to bring the fans in on
this match to make the fans care with not really
really with the lack of a foundation of a story
in terms of promos and actual any kind of narrative
to explaining why these two are even fighting and bringing

(35:37):
people into the match by having a hell of a
match that is. I mean, I've seen it done before.
It can certainly be done with these two, and I
just hope it is. And because both guys need it,
Ali is again hungry, he's on the rise, he wants
to succeed, and I'm sure in real life he is
super frustrated with the timing of the injury that he
has sustained from Randy Orton, which then led to a

(36:00):
crazy set of circumstances with Kofe being replacement and the
rest is history. And so Ali is genuinely I'm sure
frustrated at the timing, thinking that really could have been me,
and so Ali feels like he has something to prove
he's super talented in the ring. Do I see this
as a long term program?

Speaker 2 (36:18):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
I still think that Shinsky is probably going to retain,
But it's at least a little glimmer of hope for Shinsky,
who has been in just the abyss of irrelevancy since
really he aligned himself with Russ who's also kind of
mia as well. So it's at least something for shinsk
a guy that came in with so much potential, so

(36:41):
much anticipation, and fell off a cliff, and at least
he's starting to climb back up that cliff right now.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
Yeah, And I think it's a great opportunity for shin's
kay because he has this belt of the Inner Hell Championship.
And I know I harp a lot on the value
of titles, but I think it's a chance for him
to make something of not just himself but the belt.
Because it pays me to say, but that belt just
completely fell off a cliff once they put it on Balor,

(37:09):
and maybe now Shinskia can breathe new life into it.
I hope he has a long extended run with it.
I like that he's been on television more because it
seemed that when Balor had it, he was never on TV.
But yeah, you know, Shinski, there's just so much untapped
potential there in terms of character development. You know, you know,
he was in that ww title picture for like the

(37:31):
first calendar year he was on the roster. He started
with Ginger Mahal, which I hated that run, but I
won't go on there. But he had that feud with
Ginger Mahaal as the babyface. Then he had the match
with ag Styles where he turns heel and that followed
with the sequence of matches, and then as soon as
he aligned himself with the roofs, like you said, he
fell off the cliff of the fell off a cliff.

(37:54):
But this is a good opportunity for Shinski to reinvent
himself with a very you know, pre prestigious title around
his waist. So I think it's just a great opportunity.
But again, the WWE management can't, like they can't bury
him on a pre show or just with miscellaneous feuds.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Make them feuds mean something.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
I understand that the story will be told in the
ring with these two, but maybe extend it on to
Native Champions or Clash of Champions, whatever it's called now,
or make people actually want to hunt him down, make
people want that Intercondell Championship and make him defend it.
You have a great superstar, you have prestigious championship.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
Make it work. It's all in the palm of their
hands out it is.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
And I think the.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Point that you made of making this belt reminding people
really is probably a better way to put it. Reminding
people of the value of this belt may help Shinsk.
I'm of the belief of not the belts making the wrestler,
but the wrestler making the belts. In this case, you
gotta do what you gotta do. And if you want
to elevate both the wrestlers and the belt itself, maybe

(39:04):
you do a quick video package of the history and
lineage of the Intercontinental Championship, what it's meant to former stars,
they've ran this kind of thing before. Remind the audience,
re educate the audience as to what this belt means,
like Stone Cold has held it, the Rock has held it.
I mean, you go up and down the list, name

(39:25):
a star that has not held that Intercontinental Championship, and
it just I mean, it's a it's probably you could
argue the most prestigious belt in WWE. I mean, yes,
there's the ww title, but there is a lot of
lineage and when you think about the guys that have
held it and what it meant back in the day,
when it felt like it was a belt that was

(39:47):
worth fighting for and it felt almost as equivalent to the.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Top belt man.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
I mean, you could do a lot right now with
re educating the audience of what this belt means. And
if Shinske is is able to capture some of that
lineage and feed off of it and use it, and
having the commentary team also remind the audience at home
as to what this means and who's held it, I

(40:14):
think he could do wonders for Shinske, for his opponents,
whether it is Ali for the next couple of months,
or it's you know, wrestler X, whoever it may be.
They just I think we need to lean on the
lineage of the belt and remind people of where it
came from.

Speaker 5 (40:29):
Well, look, no farther than the mids and he was
holding that belt off and on for what was it
two or three years and all he ever did was
blab about the lineage of it and how prestigious and
how he's making it relevant again. And you know what
he did, he really really did, and it made it
feel important and like a few times that had swapped

(40:50):
back and forth from rawdest SmackDown, but he really made
an effort to keep it relevant or Dean Andrews carried
it for a bit and it felt really important. And
you know, it's not out of the realm to just
go back to the well in that respect because the
MYS didn't at work. Maybe it takes the Miz getting
back into the title scene. I'm not sure, quite sure

(41:11):
what the exact recipe is, but you have a great
superstar and shitskay, the belt's history is at your fingertips
that you can get whenever you want it to maybe
remind people like you mentioned, but you just can't just
I feel what they do with the Intercontinental Championship a
lot of times is they just throw it on a

(41:31):
guy to make people happy. And we brought up a
few shows ago about Finn Balor, like okay, well he's
the Intercontinental Champion now, so like, you know, be quiet
and be happy that we're making something of them.

Speaker 4 (41:42):
Well, if you're ever on TV, then what is the
belt worth?

Speaker 5 (41:46):
You know, it was just a year ago that seth
Rawlins was holding it and he had that on and
off feud with Dolf Zigler, and I remember last summer
at this time, that was one of the feuds I
was most excited for because seth Rawlins was holding this
belt and people were chasing it, like Delf Zigler. Then
him and Dean Andrews had that short feud over it,

(42:06):
even though it was underwhelming, but it was still big
name wrestlers coveting this title, and it just it just
feels like every so once in a while they throw
it on the back burner and then they use it
to try and make someone else relevant again.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Like you said, they try and make the.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
Belt elevate the superstar, and that's what they're doing with
Shincy Napkamor, which I don't mind, but make the superstar.
Make the title feel worthy of something, you know, don't
put it on the pre show. Maybe put it up
in the cart a bit. Just do something to remind
the fans that hey, this is actually worth something.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
It's more than just a pre show belt.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
And I think you hit on something very important there,
and that is having top stars still want to hold
that belt doesn't always have to be the quote define
mid card guys that only go for that belt is
in our continental belt defined as kind of a mid
to mid upper tier belt, Yes it is, But you
know what would elevate that belt. Having top guys that

(43:08):
are typically in the Universal Championship scene or the WW
championship scene go after that belt instead of just the
pre selected candidate of wrestlers that you know are probably
within that intercontinental championship world and make it top guys
go after it. Make a top guy hold it. Maybe
Randy Yorton would be a perfect candidate for that belt.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
He's a legacy star.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
He would add a hell of a lot of value
to it. And that's what it's about. It's really about, yes,
getting the wrestlers over, but getting the belts over to
mean something, because that's why everybody's here in WWE at least,
That's what I want to believe is to be champion,
a champion of some sort, be the top guy doesn't

(43:50):
mean you have to fight for the Universal or WW championship.
It could also mean you fight for one of the
most prestigious belts in the history of professional wrestling none
and go after the Interconinal Championship. So maybe that's what
they should do. It's something that people aren't even thinking
about because once people move on to that or the
w Championship or Universal Championship picture, you just go, oh, okay,

(44:13):
well they're done with the Interconnitld Championship. That was just
a stepping stone.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
You need to.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Bring back the top stars to maybe hold that belt
for six eight months.

Speaker 4 (44:22):
And that's just it.

Speaker 5 (44:23):
Like I remember when John's Cena be Russ up for
the US title at Resume thirty one and then he
had that open challenge, And I feel with the US
title they do that a lot more than the Intercontidental
because they feel like the Intercontinental's legacy will just carry
itself and the US title.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
You know, now.

Speaker 5 (44:41):
AJ Styles has it, which I loved, but like two
years ago one SmackDown AJ and Kevin Owens had that
what was it four month long feud over it that
really elevated it. And at that time, Ginger Mahal was
the WWV champion and I remember saying to myself, like, man,
I care more about the US title right now than.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
The WWE Championship.

Speaker 5 (45:01):
And I think a guy like Randy Jorton, like whose
legacy started on that inner crodinal championship. I remember he
had a nine month reign from when he beat RVD
at armagain in two thousand and three and then eventually
lost it.

Speaker 4 (45:14):
To a babyface edge.

Speaker 5 (45:16):
I think, have vengeance in the summer or something, and
then he obviously eventually moved on to bigger and better things.
But why not make rand Jorgen go back for that
belt in the twilight of his.

Speaker 4 (45:27):
Career, make him hold it for a few months.

Speaker 5 (45:30):
Make him like valuate and tell him like how he's
never gonna let this title go.

Speaker 4 (45:35):
That's really good there, Matt.

Speaker 5 (45:36):
I didn't even think about Randiorg going back to where
it all began for him. But you'd be a perfect
guy to put that strap on right now?

Speaker 2 (45:43):
He would.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
I think he is exactly where he needs to be
at that point. We don't need Randy Orton as holding
a world championship anymore. I'm not opposed to it, It's
just I don't know, like I'd still rather have him
elevate the belts that aren't really focused on so much
because there has to be more than one championship that
people are after, and with the lineage of the Intercontinental Championship,

(46:04):
I think Randy Orton is a perfect candidate. As you
said it would also, Yeah, there's a lot of parallels there.
He'd come full circle of where he started. And I
remember Randy Orton the earliest memories I have of him
is actually not in evolution, not as the in legacy.
I believe as a group he had. It was him
who was rehabbing his shoulder, giving us like news updates

(46:25):
on the percentage of the rehab of his shoulder, saying
he's at like sixty three percent and next week it
was like seventy percent. Like it's just obnoxious news updates
of where he was at with his shoulder recovery or
whatever it was. And he morphed obviously one of the
biggest stars of all time, although I don't think he
ever reached his true potential or his full potential.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
I should say so Randy Orton as.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Intercontinental Champion, Hell, yes, bring him or let him grab
the belt. He could very well be the next opponent
for Shinske. I understand Randy Orton.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Is booked as a heat right now, and she says
a heel.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
But Randy Orton with the RKO could turn baby face
at any given moment. I mean, Randy Orton could be
the most vicious heel. But when you hear the RK
O and see the RKO, people pop. I don't care
what he's doing or what he's trying to be. So
that to me, that's just where it should be. And
I would love Randy Orton as Intercontinental Champion because, as
you said too, what could John seen to give with
the United States Championship. He brought it from obscurity to

(47:25):
making it feel like the most important belt in WWE.
It was a hell of a way with the open
challenge to elevate it. I loved that with every single week.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
And some people would say.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Oh, well that that you know, the United States Championship
is above John standard. The Intercontinental Championship is above in
Randy Orton. And what you say to that is you
need to elevate championships. It's not about the guy bringing
himself down, it's about bringing the belt up. So that's
my take on the mid tier belt.

Speaker 5 (47:56):
Well, I've always just loved the mid tier belts because
I guess I was growing up, and I'm sure you
were the same. They were always like that's what the
stars went to as well, and like like you had mentioned,
it wasn't always just the mid tier guys. I remember
when Triple H in two thousand and one, so he
had still had a few world titles under his belt

(48:17):
by this point, had the Intercontinental Championship, and he had
it when he aligned with Austin as the two men
Power Trip, but they were both carrying each of those
two belts, and Triple H valued that Intercontinental Championship. And
then like I said, Randy Orton had it, Edge had it.
All these guys had it, and like it doesn't always
have to be like the up and comers that win.

(48:39):
Let's say, like Ricochet, it can go to an aj
styles And if you haven't noticed, I'm kind of mashing
the US title in Intercontinental Championship.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
In together right now, but because they are kind of parallel,
if you will. But you can't always just.

Speaker 5 (48:53):
Give it to the up and coming guy like new
wrestler X to try and make him feel like something
like you said, the wrestler make the belt field something
like I don't know because I look at a guy,
let's say like Alistair Black, who would be like a
prime example to be like the new number one contender
to the Interconnel Championship eventually, which I agree, I think

(49:14):
that would be great eventually. But if you had it
around the waist of Randy Orton for let's say five
or six months, beating wrestler after wrestler and challenger after
challenger and high profile matches that weren't just thrown in
on the pre show of SummerSlam a week before the
show was booked, maybe it would make a difference when

(49:35):
he finally when Alistair Black won, like a back to
Randy Orton when he beat Rob Van Dam for the
intercon Metal Championship at Armagin two thousand and three. Like
RVD was an established star all from ECW and even
in WWE at that time, so when Randy Orton beat him,
it felt like he had actually accomplished something. It wasn't

(49:56):
just from I don't know, Bobby Rude losing it to
for Ginder Mahal at WrestleMania a few years ago, like okay,
like it means something, but does it really or you know,
RUSSEV beating Cizarro for it, like it like, make it
feel important, make me invested into it, make me say like, wow,
if this guy, if aj Styles is really covening this

(50:19):
US title of like, you know, I should care about
it too.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
And that's the way I see it.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah, I don't want it to feel like a prop.
It feels like a prop. It feels like just.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Kind of a guys using the belt to say, hey, yeah,
I'm an up and coming star that WWE has pre
selected and my next step is the United States or
the w W Championship. What about making Again, it needs
to be a destination and not just a stepping stone.
And that's the problem with these belts. You already in
your mind know who you think could be the next

(50:52):
United States or an accountable champion, like you have those
certain guys that ww is probably looking at to use
as the next next intercontinental United States Champion, so that
it's a stepping stone to the ultimate destination of being
the top guy's Universal Champion or whatever. It needs to
be defined as a destination, and that's the problem.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
It's used as a prop, as you said, sometimes for
creative or management to use as an out of saying here, now, yeah,
we gave your guy, the guy that you wanted the championship,
So be quiet, you you know, you kind of got
what you wanted.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Here's a bone, and you know.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
And look what they did with Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania
thirty one when he won the Intercontinental Championship and the
fans wanted him in the World Championship picture and he
ended up having a relinquish STA belt obviously due to
injury as well. But it's just the fact that it's
used as a consolation prized by WWE and as a
stepping stone instead of a ultimate destination of a wrestler

(51:52):
coming in and saying, I want to be Intercontinental Champion.
I remember watching ww growing up in wwws and remembering
the guys that I idolized going after you need to
kind of little champion and what it meant to them.
That's what it means to me, and that's what we're
not getting.

Speaker 5 (52:10):
Well, it is such a consolation prize, and we can
just use the US title before it went onto AJ styles.
Like like as you were talking there, I like Samoa
Joe popped into my head and I'm struggling to remember
who he beat for the US title before he dropped
it to Raymond Stereo And I really am drawing a
blank because that belt has changed so many times over

(52:35):
the last two years that I've lost count Like rand
Yorton held it for I think three weeks before he
dropped in the failed four way match at Wrestlingia. You know,
Bobby Rude has held it, but like it doesn't make
it feel like anything.

Speaker 4 (52:47):
Like Samoa Show's.

Speaker 5 (52:48):
That perfect guy where they're just like, okay, like we
know everyone wants him in the main event, but now
he's just a glorified jobb or.

Speaker 4 (52:55):
But we'll just throw you a boat and stick the
US title on him.

Speaker 5 (52:58):
But like was his reign didn't meet anything Like I
just said, I can't even remember who he beat. I
feel like it was in a fatal four way match back.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Ray Masterio get injured and then he said I'm giving
the belt to you, which made zero sense after he
harassed his family, ray Masteria had to give up the belt.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
It was preposterous.

Speaker 5 (53:18):
Yeah, and then in his first title defense he dropped
it to Rip Pichet. Leading up to it the at
Stopping Grounds, I believe, and there or extreme Rules or
whatever it was. And then but then I remember when
Joe was on SmackDown because he had that match with
Mysterio at WrestleMania for the US title, and he had

(53:40):
beat someone a few weeks earlier on SmackDown in a
fatl four way match. But the bat belt had become
so irrelevant because of it just being a prop to
make people like seem relevant here and there that I
kind of remember who Smojoe beat, And I felt that
the Inner can Nel Championship was exactly that on Finn Balor,
and it really because I thought he was a guy

(54:01):
that would make that belt feel special, but it didn't,
and it just felt like it was rotting around the
waist of Finn Balor. So yeah, I just I really
struggle with some sometimes how they booked these belts well.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Both both belts need certainly need help. The Intercontinental Championship
more so as as the United States Championship lies around
the waste of aj Styles, who I think is going
to be a great United States Champion and I hope
holds the belt for like, I wouldn't care if its
a six month run or more. I think that Co
could do wonders for him and his OC. The original
Click or the original Klan or the original club I

(54:37):
don't even know anymore, but I think that they could
do wonders for both. The Intercontinental Championship needs to be
resurrected from the dead. I mean, yes, it's around Shinske,
and that makes Shinskey a little more relevant than he
was with Russev. But right now, I think it needs
to be around the waste of a Star, and Randy Orton,
to me, is a perfect candidate. I understand he's with

(54:58):
Kobe Kingster right now and that feud, and I'm gonna
get into that in a minute, but I think it
needs to be around the wat of Randy Orton at
this point in his career. So, but moving on to
Randy Orton in KOFE, what are your thoughts on this
before I get into it.

Speaker 5 (55:12):
Well, I really do like it, because I've gone on
record in saying that I feel like Kofe's run he's
been kind of having pretend challengers, and I remember the
last one was on this show. It felt like his
feuds with Kevin Owens and Dolf Sigler and Simojo were kind.

Speaker 4 (55:28):
Of rinse and repeat.

Speaker 5 (55:30):
They attack him from behind, they have a one and
done match with him, which they lose. In Dolf's case,
he had two, but they lose in quick fashion and
Kofe moves on to the next thing. Randy, it's a
bit different because Kevin Okay, Kevin and Dolf held world titles.
Kevin held the Universal and Dolph It held the World Heavyweight,

(55:51):
but neither of them have ever held the w WE Championship.
As we just mentioned Samojo, he's only held the United
States Championship. Now you get Ran, who's a first ballot
Hall of Famer, thirteen time world champion, Grand Slam champion,
has been part of two major factions.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
He is a legacy star. Everyone knows Randy Orton.

Speaker 5 (56:14):
So this is a chance for the for WW to
really cement Kofe as a legitimate champion and not just
a placeholder champion.

Speaker 4 (56:23):
I think it was the right guy.

Speaker 5 (56:25):
It's the right person to give Kofe's reign legitimacy, that
he's not just going at that He's not always just
going toe to toe with pretenders like good wrestlers, but
none of them that have a sure like legacy of
world titles. This guy, Randy Orton. You can't get a

(56:45):
wrestler with much more championship history than him, unless we
are going maybe John c Know, who's not even a
full time wrestler anymore. So I think this was the
perfect guy for Kofi Kingston. I think that it's gonna
be a great match. I think I've heard on one
of your shows that they are good friends in real life,
so I think we'll get all out of Randy Orton

(57:05):
in this. I think it's the perfect stage for them SummerSlam,
which I'm happy that they're treating it as one of
the best, the top four pay per views of the year,
which oftentimes I feel like they don't really truly treat
it like that. So I think the stage is perfect.
I think the challenge in Randy Orton is perfect. I
think it's a chance for Kofe to finally feel like

(57:27):
a true, non placeholder champion.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
This is the point that Kofi Kingston, as you said,
stamps his his name in the annals of a true
ww champion. I mean, you're right, it is Kofe's time
to say, yeah, I've defended my belt a few times,
but this is where I really put my stake in

(57:54):
the ground and my flag in the ground and say
I'm really here. I will be shocked if Randy Orton wins.
What scares me is that Vince McMahon likes to take
the bookings that all the fans go, oh, that's a
lock and screw with them. And so does it scare
me that Randy Orton could win.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Yeah, a little bit.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
A little bit just because of the fact that Vince
McMahon likes to swerve the fans sometimes that think they're
all smart marks and know the business.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
That scares me.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
But the right thing to do is to not be
childish and to actually let Kofe keep the belt. I
know that it's not really a prediction show, but this
one seems to be a no brainer. It seems to
be Kofee Kingston retaining here in a very hard fought match,
hopefully going over clean and having this program be over.

(58:44):
And maybe my prediction of Randy going to the Intercontinental
Championship picture comes to fruition. I don't know, but Randy
Orton or yeah, Randy Orton and Kofee Kingston could have
a very good match if both guys are motivated and
given enough time. They certainly have what I don't know,
nearly thirty years of experience between the two. They bring generals.

(59:07):
They could put on a classic if all the circumstances
and all the elements come together at the right time.
I would say just kind of a preconceived notion that
out of five stars they can easily do three and
a half to four. Five is very, very difficult to do,
even if Randy Orton is super motivated. But I see

(59:29):
KOFE coming out as champion. I just don't see another
way right now for ww and in their path to
take but the looming dark horses, Vince McMahon and his
ego of trying to make sure the fans are swerved
and everything is not so quote predictable, but it's not
always wrong to be predictable if it's the right thing
to do.

Speaker 4 (59:49):
Well.

Speaker 5 (59:49):
You know, there's a part of me that, maybe just
that evil dab along on my shoulders, that I really
do want Randy Orton when I've always been a huge
Rand Jorton fan, maybe because he was almost like the
face that I remember when I when the ruthless aggressioner
really kind of rode off into the sunset him and see,
you know, we're kind of like the lasting faces of

(01:00:10):
that before I switched the PG era, so He's kind
of like a nostalgia act for me. But at the
end of the day, when you think about you are right,
there's no rational way to justify Randy Orton winning here
because it would just kill Kofi Kingston's reign. And I'm
very I am very adamant when I say that to

(01:00:31):
this today, I don't feel like he's had a true
reign as champion because, like I mentioned, although I love
all his challengers individually, none of them have that you
know that Randy Orton carries like that star power he carries,
like the legacy again, no cuntended that he carries, like

(01:00:52):
Randy Orton is the biggest, one of the biggest stars
of the last ten to fifteen years in wrestling, and
if co he wins and beats him, his legacy will
finally get cemented. But if he loses, he'll just be
a forgotten champion like Jinger Mahal was. And you know,
like so many champions who have coming gone that we

(01:01:14):
kind of forget that they were w W champions. But
I just, like I said, there's a part of me,
I would say, the kid in me almost wants Randy
Orton to win. But yes, there's no, there's just no
rational way that Randy Oron come out on top here with.

Speaker 4 (01:01:31):
The best interest of advancing the storyline.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
I'm with you, like I like, I love Randy Orton.
I think he is ultra talented. He's just incredibly smooth
in the ring. He understands ring psychology. His obviously his
finishing maneuver is one of the most over in the
entire industry. You look at his resume, it reads like

(01:01:55):
a who's who I mean it is. It's just an
unmatt resume of longevity and championship runs and being a
part of two stables that are that are are super impactful.
I just don't see, as you said, like, I don't
know how they get passed and what the logic could
possibly be to have Randy winn here.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
I wouldn't be opposed to it. I would certainly pop
and it would get people talking.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
But I think people would be legitimately angry. I think
it would be an angry response not to Randy, but
an angry response to the company and their direction of
taking the belt off of KOFE, because it would be
oh so KOFE doesn't get a victory over a real star.
You guys gave us a couple of foe wins to

(01:02:41):
get us excited, but when it came down to it
and the chips were down. Yeah, he doesn't quite stack
up to Randy Orton level, and the message would be
sent loud and clear, and I think people would lose
their minds and Twitter would blow up and the company
would receive backlash. I actually think people would be legitimately angry.

Speaker 5 (01:02:59):
Yeah, And that's the thing, because people are so behind
kof right now that you don't want to give them
any reason to rebel against it, and this would just
be pouring cold water on it. I personally think that
Kofe's you know, it's kind of dying down a bit now.
But this isn't the time or the superstar to do it.
You know, Randyoron doesn't need this win. I don't even

(01:03:22):
think on a personal level he even wants this win.
I think he's probably just doing it as a good
deed for a buddy to give him the rub and
cement him as a bona fide, you know, legit WW champion.
I think that Kofe's time is up soon. I'm kind
of on a personal level a bit over it. But
it's it's not.

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
I just I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:03:45):
I just don't think that Randyorton is the guy, because
where would you take the storyline.

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
You know, Randyoron has been there, he's done that.

Speaker 5 (01:03:52):
What would be the logic for almost not a has
been but a legacy started to take it off of
a guy who just won it for the first time
and was burning white hot.

Speaker 4 (01:04:03):
Just a few months ago. So while I.

Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
Think that Kofee's time is slowly but surely dwindling down,
rand Jorn's not the guy to do it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:11):
It's not the time to do it.

Speaker 5 (01:04:13):
And I think rand Jorn's that final step into just finally,
you know, putting Kofe's name down. As you know what,
he was a legit champion, he had a solid run,
he'd be a bona fide superstar of this generation. And
then after that then they could find a more suitable
guy to take the belt off of them.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Yeah, I think you're exactly right. I actually am in
your boat too. Unlike a lot of people out there
that I'm a little bit tired of the Kofee act.
I'll say it is hard, very hard to take an
eleven year career and erase the all of the preconceived

(01:04:53):
notions that we have about what Kofe Kingston is and
where he is on the car and where he belongs
and where he's been defined to to just instantly switch
to thinking that, yeah, this guy's the main eventor I
still am not there. I'll be totally honest, like, I
think he's.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Great in the ring.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
He's with a super over group. But I still maybe
it's just after eleven years of being told of where
Kofi Kingston is defined as in where his little niches
that him as a WW champion, I'm being told that
he can hang with any of them and beat the
best of them, and beat Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania. It's

(01:05:30):
still a little hard for me to take in. Not
that I don't think he's a good champion, not that
I don't support him as champion, it's just hard to
erase eleven years in four months and I'm having trouble. So,
as you said, am I getting a little tired of
the Kofee acts?

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Yeah, a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Would I see mind seeing him lose right now? No,
I think I'm in the minority of most fans. You
and I are in the minority of most fans of
saying that Kobe Kingston's wearing little thin and the fact
that he's out there. And one thing, one little critique
I haven't really provided much today in the show is
that the whole Randy Orton video package that was shown

(01:06:06):
on SmackDown Live, I loved it. I love the sound
bites that Randy Yorton was showing him running down Kofi
Kingston and saying that he didn't even get a thank
you for what Randy Orton provided to him, which was
the opportunity to be a part of Elimination Chamber to
have him win the belt. And then Kofe Kingston immediately
is shown after backstage and Biggie just smiling and laughing

(01:06:29):
and throwing pancakes. I mean, I just feel like he's
not taking anything seriously.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
At times.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
We've seen small sides of him being serious when Samoa
Joe attacked him and I but it's just I don't
need a guy throwing pancakes out there that's w B
champion and being part of a group that is not
supposed to be taken seriously.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
I'm having a little bit of trouble just feeling that
Kofe Kinkson is a true w W champion, not just
a transitional champion.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
My mind.

Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
Well, you know what, since we've opened this can of words,
I'm just getting dumped them all out. I've never been
behind this coffee case since storyline.

Speaker 5 (01:07:10):
And I remember when you know, the build up to
the Dan O'Brien match where Vince McMahon said, you're a
first ballot Hall of Famer Kofe, but not by yourself
but as a member of the New Day and everyone
was outrage.

Speaker 4 (01:07:24):
I was just like, that's one hundred percent accurate. Why
are people upset?

Speaker 5 (01:07:28):
And that's not a bad thing, but it just felt
I don't really get how this whole Kofe mania thing started.
It kind of felt like Daniel Brian two point zero.
Maybe that's why I was just like, okay, like I'm
not really into this, especially the fact that daniel'brian was
the champion. It just I don't know. I, like you said,

(01:07:51):
how am I supposed to put everything? Even the fact
that he was Jamaican when he started, even that I remember,
and I'm but there's always been something about Kofe that
just outside of what he does in the ring, because
what he does inside the squared circle. You cannot critique him.
He is amazing ring general, second to none. But even

(01:08:14):
as a member of the New Day, I've always said
that the New Day could survive without Kofe, but they
need the other two or quintessential, And there's just something
about Kofe that I don't gravitate to and I can't
live vicariously through. Maybe because you said he takes nothing seriously,
and he's holding a belt that Steve Austin had, that

(01:08:36):
The Rock had, that John Cena, the Undertaker, Triple h
all these guys, and he's danced around flinging pancakes, and
maybe I understand that it gave everyone a feel good moment,
but I personal again, I personally did not like it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):
From the beginning.

Speaker 5 (01:08:54):
I've been hoping every challenger would take the belt off
of him, even though I know that they would give
him a song run. But I just I can't. I
don't know, I find And it was the same thing
when Ginger Mahal won the title. That was one that
I was so upset about. But it's I don't understand
how we are supposed to just forget. And I know

(01:09:16):
Vince mcmaan is notorious for thinking that the fans have
short term memory loss or whatever it is.

Speaker 4 (01:09:22):
But I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:09:24):
I just I can't get behind someone who's been at
best a high mid card guy for the entirety of
his career, which has been a decade long. So I've
been ready for Kofe to lose it ever since he
got it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Well, since we're going down this rabbit hole, let's go
a little further. I mean because so like so, there's
there's a lot of there's some layers here, like and
you mentioned it. What I feel like when I see Kofe,
I think we're in agreement. His in ring performance, his
in ring proless, his entering, athleticism, his just timing, all
of that. You can't take that away from Kofe. He

(01:10:02):
is extremely good in the ring. He could work with anybody.
He can make anybody look good. That's not the issue.
The issue is that I every time I see Kofe,
Kinkson is w champion, I am struggling with myself to
try to be in total support of this and going, yeah,
this feels right. I still and people may say, oh

(01:10:25):
because because he's black.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
No, no, it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
And the thing is There is a race element to
this though that cannot be overlooked and it's uncomfortable for
people to talk about. But the race element here is
as as follows. WWE has not had a great history
of promoting black champions or even having a black stable
together and not either highlighting black stereotypes or you know,

(01:10:51):
look at crime time. For God's sakes, I mean, like
some of the things WWE has done with their black
athletes has.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Not been good. I mean, let's just be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
So to have them be in a position where fans
are in support of a black athlete that has been
with him for a long time and give him the belt,
it's good for PR to do that. Now did they
do it just because he's black? No, I'm not saying that,
But I am saying is that that is a certainly

(01:11:22):
a big benefit side effect to him being WW champion
and having WWE go Look, look how diverse we are
are top guys of an African American. We haven't had
this and how like almost forever or almost never, Like
it's good for their public relations. They're a publicly traded company.
There is a race element to this that hey, look

(01:11:43):
at us, Look.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
What we're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
Am I saying that again, this is not the only
reason he's champion, but it certainly helps so, but I'm
just struggling and not I'm not looking at that though.
I don't care what color his skin is personally, I'm
telling you the corporately corporate view that whether they admitted
or or not is a part of the equation. My
personal view on him, though, when I see him, I

(01:12:05):
struggle to look at him and go, yeah, like this
is awesome that he's champion.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
It's I just I can't. It's it's hard.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
I said, I support him as champion, and I stick
by that, but it's not like I would boo him.
I just feel after eleven years of all of a sudden,
you know, Popeye found his spinach and he can beat
anybody because he's dead w B champion, and that he
is a babyface that people are behind. So if it's
one on one against any heel, he can win. I
just I have a very hard time every week seeing

(01:12:37):
him out there throwing pancakes and me taking the belt
seriously while he's not so there.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
I mean, let's see if we can keep going down
the rabbit hole.

Speaker 5 (01:12:45):
Oh my god, we do do this all night because
for me, it was even how it was built the
story because he was only booked an elimination.

Speaker 4 (01:12:56):
Chamber because of the injury to miss off.

Speaker 5 (01:12:58):
Sorry Ali, and then he put on a great performance
like he always does in the ring, and for me,
I'm sorry, it just felt forced. The whole thing just
felt forced. It's like WW was just like, oh, they're
really behind Kofe, who's an underdog.

Speaker 4 (01:13:15):
It worked with Daniel Brian five years ago, so let's
just do it.

Speaker 5 (01:13:18):
And Vince McMahon stuck himself in there and put all
these obstacles in his way, and there wasn't even a
build to a feud with Daniel Brian like I felt.
There wasn't even a beef between the two like there was,
but it would just felt more like just the Kofe
overcoming ridiculous obstacles and the obstacles that he was overcoming,

(01:13:40):
like beating the bar in handicap match, like I'm sorry,
Like even if like back in the day, Stone Cold
Steve Austin couldn't blow through the dudleys with such ease
that Kofe did it, just it just felt they were
burying guys along the way and like it just became predictable, like, Okay,
we know he's gonna end up getting the time match,

(01:14:00):
and we know he's gonna win, and I don't know.
I just for me that was something that hurt, like
the titles legacy. And again to kind of touch on
the racial thing, when Jinner Mahal won the belt two
years ago, I actually quit watching SmackDown for that whole summer,

(01:14:21):
the summer twenty seventeen, and a lot of my buddies
were just like, Oh, you're just mad that he's Punjabi
you or that he's Indian and that they're doing you know,
the whatever his name was. I even remember, I forget
what his nickname was, but I said, it has nothing
to do with that. But for me, it was the

(01:14:41):
equivalent if heat Slater would have come up and won
the belt. But again, it was a pr move because
they were breaking into that market of the world, and
Jenner Mahaal winning that belt made absolutely no sense, and
it made me not care about the title. It didn't
even make sense that we got into that match. And
for me, it's kind of the same thing with Kofe.

(01:15:02):
I never really understood what propelled him into this match, like,
oh yeah, well, he's been a hard worker for the
last ten years. Okay, so has Dolph Ziggler, which was
funny because they went down that angle. But there's been
so many wrestlers like this who have been hard workers
and been with the company, but they were rightfully so

(01:15:24):
never in that main event picture.

Speaker 4 (01:15:26):
Like Shelton Benjamin was one of them.

Speaker 5 (01:15:28):
He just never had it and that's okay, but Kofi,
it just kind of felt like a cheap way to
get over with the.

Speaker 4 (01:15:33):
Fans in my view, And you know what.

Speaker 5 (01:15:37):
I guess they did a good job because, like we said,
we're in the minority with this. But when I see
him coming out there flaming pancakes, to honestly, I like,
there's a part of me that just wants to see
a legitimate badass heel like TRIPLEH with Evolution coming out
and just beating him down and taking that belt away
from him. And that's not a way that I should

(01:15:59):
feel with the baby, but that's how I feel like.
I want rand Oron to just be beat him down
and show him what an actual, true, you know, legitimate
champion is. And again, I respect Hope in the ring,
and I like him as a wrestler, and I like
him in that mid card, and I like him with
the New Day but it's just it's I don't know,

(01:16:21):
I feel like it's hurt the New Days rep being
affiliated with the w W Championship, and I feel like
the ww Championship has really taken a backseat to fuse
like Roman Reigns and Shane McMahon and what have you.

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
Yeah, this is like I said, this is this is
a topic that is it's dangerous because I'm sure that
the people listening going, oh, you guys don't like him
because he's black, because everybody likes to play the race
card of pointing to you're a racist. I mean, that's
just the go to for everything, and that's not.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
The case here, folks.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
The case here is that we have a champion. Take
the skin color completely off of it. This is a
guy that has been defined as a mid card performer forever, forever,
Since two thousand and eight, he has been defined as
a mid card guy. And then he gets one opportunity.
He certainly maximized the hell out of it. That was

(01:17:13):
one of the most memorable performances I've ever seen ever.
I mean, that was an amazing performance. I was sitting
there going, oh my god, oh my god, he could
do it in the elimination chamber.

Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
It was amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
And then they have this contrived kind of faux rivalry
and friction between him and Daniel Bryan and it was
really just Vince McMahon. But Vince McMahon's not gonna have
a match with Kofee Kingston. And they never explained why
Vince McMahon was against Kofee. It was just I don't know,
I mean, like, and he just a couple of months
came ago, came on and said we're gonna give all

(01:17:46):
the fans what you want.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
We're listening, and then he does.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
The complete opposite and comes out a couple of months later.
It was just just made zero sense. I just don't
want to have a champion that. I feel like I'm
trying to convince myself every time he's out there that
he he's legitimate and he belongs in that level of stardom.
He just feels a little just feels out of place.

(01:18:09):
He feels like he doesn't belong as WWE champion. I
just have no other way to put it. It's not
about skin color. It's about the way they've defined him
over eleven years. You can't erase that in just one
single performance and then have him go on a complete
tear and be undefeated since WrestleMania, which is essentially what

(01:18:29):
they've done is have him beat everybody clean. Nobody can
defeat Kofee. I want, as you just said, I would
love for somebody who's just come out. I don't care
who it is, if they even have to turn the meal,
maybe it's Drew McIntyre and just comes out and is
just a monster and wrecks him and takes his belt.
I mean, I'm ready for a change with KOFE. This

(01:18:51):
feel good story, I'm totally over. I'm supportive him as champion.
I don't hate him as champion. I just feel like
he doesn't belong as wwech and that's it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:02):
He doesn't belong.

Speaker 5 (01:19:03):
And when's the last time he ever held a singles belt? Like,
I know he had a few runs as I see
in US Champion, but my god, like he's been defined
as a tag team wrestler for the.

Speaker 4 (01:19:16):
Last how long has New Day been in it now
five years?

Speaker 5 (01:19:20):
And before that, at best, best best, he was a
mid card guy. So then why all of the sudden,
after years of being tag team, is now he we're
supposed to make. We're being led to believe that he
can hang with the likes of Randy Orton. And like
you said, and like I've agreed, I think that he's
gonna rightfully beat Randy Orton just in terms of storyline.

(01:19:42):
But at the same time, am I It's not believable
to me because Randy Orton.

Speaker 4 (01:19:48):
Is still a guy that should be able to whoop him.
And that was for me.

Speaker 5 (01:19:52):
I was praying that Brock was going to cash in
on Kofe to describe what we just did, just you know,
just beat him down and take his belt and show
them what a true champion is.

Speaker 4 (01:20:03):
And I don't know, for me like these belts, and
it's been kind of a.

Speaker 5 (01:20:06):
Reoccurring theme on this show that I really value this
prestige of them. And when I see a guy like
Kofe win it, or when I saw a guy like
Junior mahaal win it or even Alberto del Rio, I
just I don't know it really it taints the legacy
of it, and it just thoroughly bothers me that they

(01:20:27):
can just throw these randoms into the title picture and
make us like believe, try and make us believe that
they can hang with John Cena and Randy Jorton and
AJ Styles and all these guys.

Speaker 6 (01:20:39):
And it's also like, you know, you Kofe's had this
unstoppable run, but then when Bray Wyatt finally won it,
what was it three years ago or four years ago,
whatever it was, they pulled the plug on it after
a year to Randy Orton.

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
So it's it seems very hypocritical.

Speaker 5 (01:20:58):
And that's the reason that I believe, to touch on
your point that a lot of his run is political.

Speaker 4 (01:21:03):
Based, it is.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
But at the same time, when you you listen to
the crowd reactions, it's it's pretty positive. I mean, that's
why I feel like we're in the minority here, and
that's fine. I'm sure we'll get some feedback on this show,
but I don't think anything we're saying is unfair or unjustified.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
The crowd cheers f hm.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
And you know what, if I went to an event like,
I would not boo him. I really wouldn't. Like I
don't feel negatively towards Kofe that there's nothing that I
feel like I'm looking at Kofee Kingston going oh my god,
I can't stand his character.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
I would boo him. He's terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
It's very it's it's very conflicting though, because I love
Kofee Kinson as a performer. I like him in the
New Day. I just he doesn't belong as w W champion,
at least in the flip of a switchway that they
did it. If there was a long story arc in
which they took the Kofee Kingson character and said, you know, said,

(01:21:56):
you know, Kofe, we're gonna try something here and in
six to twelve months you're gonna be WW champion, maybe
I could go along.

Speaker 2 (01:22:02):
For the ride.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
But you can't flip the switch from out of nowhere.
When before that, I don't remember any kind of ground
swell going oh my god, Kofe deserves the W Championship.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
This is crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
Nobody gave a crap until he was in the elimination
chamber and people thought, oh my god, we could see
something special here. And it was a great finish between
Dangl Brian and Koche Kingston, a very very good finish,
And if that didn't happen, Kofe would just still be
in the New Day eating pancakes, throwing things into the
audience and being a goofball. I mean it was I
just don't like the light switch turn, and I think

(01:22:35):
that's the problem. I think you and I would probably
have a different opinion if this was a long term
story that they were trying to tell and it was
slowly built safe from SummerSlam even a Mania or WrestleMania
to WrestleMania, and instead it was just bo one day.
Oh yeah, by the way, forget all the eleven years,
he can suddenly beat everybody at the clean anytime that
he can.

Speaker 5 (01:22:54):
Well, and when they were building him, because it was
such a flip of the light switch, they had to
maximize all the shows leading up to WrestleMania, so all
the shows were just okay, well, what's KOFE gonna overcome
this week?

Speaker 4 (01:23:07):
And it was like a four or five week stretch.

Speaker 5 (01:23:10):
Meanwhile, the WWE champion, Daniel Brian was almost nonexistent.

Speaker 4 (01:23:16):
I remember one of them.

Speaker 5 (01:23:17):
He ended up being like the last guy in the Gauntlet,
but the title holder was just taking a backseat because
you were rushing to build up Kovie Kingston's credibility. And
I touched on it when Danie O'Brien eventually won the
undisputed championship at Wrestlingia thirty. That was a build from
the August. I think they started that when Randy Weuring

(01:23:39):
cashed in on him and Triple H turned heel as
the special guest referee, Like that was a slow burn,
and I'll be honest, before that, I just thought, as
Daniel Brian is someone from Team hell No.

Speaker 4 (01:23:51):
And I was just like, well, why is this guy
being involved?

Speaker 5 (01:23:54):
But then he beat John Cena, and then he kept
getting screwed over and screwed over and screwed over and
screwed over, and then he had that feud with break
Wide and then eventually the crowd overpowered and I got
behind it, but Kofe was just like, well, you're not
actually in the elimination chamber, but you're getting him based
on an injury. And then he had a good performance
and then the entire SmackDown show b became him becoming

(01:24:16):
Superman overnight, and I just did not understand it. It
wasn't believable, and a lot of me being invested into
storylines is believability. And now maybe because of how hard
they strapped the rocket back to him, Although you know,
it's fathomable that he is going to be Brandy Orton
to retain the belt at SummerSlam, and I think it

(01:24:37):
is good, like we mentioned before to you know, cement
him as a legit star. But again, like this build
should have been done pre championship because it even kind
of take taint the legacy of Daniel Bryan because you know,
he lost the belt to Kofe's first kick at the
can for the WAB Championship fully clean.

Speaker 4 (01:25:00):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:25:00):
There was just something about this from the beginning that
they sit right with me. Like you said, the crowd
has been so overwhelmingly behind it that I'm not gonna
fault WWE for it, but personally, and now I figured
out that you feel the same way. I just I've
never been able to get behind this because I just
find the believability like just so low.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
And I can't connect with this character.

Speaker 1 (01:25:26):
There's nothing for me to go, oh yeah, I can
relate to this. It's just kind of this goofy guy
and a goofy group that has a lot of good
natural chemistry. And the New day On commentary a couple
of weeks ago completely destroyed some segments that would have
otherwise been portrayed as something serious. When they were on
commentary with Shawn Michaels and Dolph Ziggler, they were doing

(01:25:47):
jokes and making like cracks and it's like, this is
not the time to do it.

Speaker 4 (01:25:51):
What are you? I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
So like New Day is just kind of this group
again that is their tag team champions. They're all great
in the ring, that's not the problem. You just can't
have a champion involved in kind of this high act
comedy group that is defined as this this group that
is super good together but never really quite the top
of the food chain. And and Kofe just boom got there.

(01:26:15):
And I don't know, I mean, when you cannot nobody
could argue to me that Samoa Joe would not be
a better champion than than Kofe Kingston would. Samoa Joe
has gotten a completely shafted since he debuted in WWE,
and it's a damn shame that Samoa Joe has not

(01:26:36):
got a run with the belt. When he started his
program with Kofe, I.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
Said, yeah, I'm like.

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
Mildly excited, but I know it's just nothing more than
Kofi Kingston. To add Samojo to another notch in his belt,
like that's I knew unfortunately what it was because it
was too soon since WrestleMania.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
That he won.

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
And uh, Samoa Joe was not really, in ww's eyes,
a true champion, which is a bunch of when he
won the championship from Raymisterio at WrestleMania in record time.
I said, finally they're gonna do something, and they didn't,
and Sumojo continued to get roll up losses and be
shocked that he lost, and how Simojo's record since WrestleMania

(01:27:14):
is god awful and it's it's just a damn shame
and and I but let's let's we need to move
on because there's there's other things.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
There's other things that I want to get to.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
So I'm gonna do that, and we can we can
table this for our next show or something, because this
is starting to go down a rabbit.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
Hole of of just frustration.

Speaker 1 (01:27:33):
So it's yeah, it's starting to uh, it's starting to
get crazy. So okay, one thing I want to talk
about with you is the Ziggler and the miz Slash
HBK and uh it's kind of this quasi weird thing
going on with Ziggler super kicking Michaels and then the

(01:27:54):
Miz coming to his defense, but also Seth Rollins coming
to his defense on raw. I don't know why Seth
Collins feels like he is the needs to get involved,
but whatever. And one also, one thing I did see
online today from some quote credible sources, as they say,
is that this very well may not be a match
between Ziggler and Miz or even Ziggler and HBK that

(01:28:17):
it could be Goldberg who ends up standing in the
face of Ziggler at SummerSlam because of the constant comments
that Ziggler has had of how terrible Goldberg is in
the ring.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
Did you see his last match?

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
We all saw how terrible it was, and I thought
I didn't really think anything of it because it was
just to me WWE's way of using Ziggler as a
conduit to acknowledge just how awful that was and pointing
the finger at Goldberg of how awful that match was.
But could I see Goldberg returning to squash Ziggler in
at SummerSlam.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
I could.

Speaker 1 (01:28:49):
I don't think Michaels is coming out of retirement to
fay Ziggler at least not at SummerSlam, although I do
see a sweet Chin music in his future. So what's
your take on this, this whole kind of Ziggler Miz
Michael's and possibly Goldberg getting involved.

Speaker 5 (01:29:03):
Well, Ziggler, I think this is the best he's looked
in quite a while. I feel like it's real, Like
it's a real ripe he has with them. He almost
like this heat, this full blown heel person that he
has right now, Like it's almost like he's speaking the
truth about like, you know, just like guy like legends

(01:29:23):
coming back to like you know, get like cheap pops
and what they used to be. So Ziggler as like
in a nutshell. I really like his character, and he's
as good as he's been in quite some time, I
would say, pre the most recent brand split.

Speaker 4 (01:29:40):
Uh HBK.

Speaker 5 (01:29:41):
I find it kind of cool that they cross they've
crossed roads because there are eroly like similarities to both
of them.

Speaker 4 (01:29:49):
The Miz I don't really get it.

Speaker 5 (01:29:50):
I feel like they just threw the Mizzen here because
him and Ziggler have a solid history together. I remember
what was it two years ago they the roles were
reversed that MS was the heel and Ziggler was the
face and if you over the Intercontinal Championship, so and
even how they started about this this beef between the

(01:30:11):
two of them, the most recent one how Ziggler just
showed up on Miss TV and then insulted his family
or something. But I think that's why Miss has been
thrust into it. I still can't get behind missus a
baby face, you know, like on one knee checking on
Sean Michaels.

Speaker 4 (01:30:26):
It just feels so forced to me.

Speaker 5 (01:30:28):
But again, I'm really, you know, into Ziggler right now.
I'm his characters over with me. I think if he
and Miss were to have a match, I'd be okay
with it because of their good history together. But my god,
if Ziggler is a sacrificial am to Goldberg, they will completely, completely, completely,

(01:30:52):
completely completely kill his character's credibility forever. I saw that
rumor today and I'm sure as hell hope it's not true.
Goldberg should never step foot in a ring again, and
forget the fact that he's gonna come back to squash Ziggler,
who I feel, at least in my mind, is hot,
red hot right now. And as I just said, as

(01:31:13):
good as he's been in quite some time. I don't
think the crowd's gonna receive him well. And if you
come back, if Goldberg comes back to squash Ziggler and
make an example out of him, I think they're just
gonna get people even more behind Ziggler as a heel
and they are just gonna boo a guy like Goldberg,

(01:31:34):
and you know what.

Speaker 4 (01:31:35):
Just leave it as it is. They should have left
it alone.

Speaker 5 (01:31:38):
With his match at resume of thirty three with Brov,
they insisted to bring back one more time. It was
the worst match I've ever seen, But just let it go.
But if you try and make up for which I've
heard that Goldberg wants to to, you know, like have
a better send off match, just oh my god, Like
if he has to do that, make them come out
and squash I don't know, like the B Team, I

(01:32:01):
don't know, make him do something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:32:03):
But not Zigler.

Speaker 5 (01:32:04):
Like he's built himself up now, like away from Drew McIntyre.
Because even last year when he came back, he was
kind of even though mcadore was writing Shotgum with him,
it kind of felt that he was riding shotgun with McIntyre.
He's completely broken away solo right now. He's been great
since he came back a few months ago on SmackDown.
Please don't make him a sacrificial land to Goldberg. Come on, like,

(01:32:28):
if not for Ziggler's character, just for the sake of
what the reception will be for Goldberg himself.

Speaker 1 (01:32:35):
Which yeah, I didn't even think of that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:37):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:32:37):
The fact is, if Goldberg does return, and there have
been now that I think about it, it's some pretty
big hints. I mean, it's not like Zigger mentioned it
kind of like in passing in a whisper, like he
has made it pretty clear in several promos now of
mentioning just how terrible Goldberg was in his last match,
or however he phrases it every time, which tells me

(01:33:00):
they're planning the seats for something. So when I saw
that room where I go, oh oh boy, I mean,
and the fact that Goldberg was completely exposed during that
match with the Undertaker, and most people do blame Goldberg
for how terrible it was and not Undertaker. I think
you could be right, like the roles could reverse because

(01:33:21):
as much as Zigler has done a great job, and
I'm with you on that of Ziggler doing some of
the best work he's done since his return. I could
I deal without the screaming promos all the time?

Speaker 2 (01:33:32):
Yeah, I could.

Speaker 1 (01:33:33):
But he's solid on the mic, He's believable on the mic.
I don't feel like he's given a script. And I
don't know if he's memorizing his lines better or they're
just saying, you know what, Ziggler like, you know what,
you go out there, will give you kind of bullet
points and you fill in the blanks. We trust you.
And maybe that's what they're doing with him. But I
love the what they've done, the progression of his character,

(01:33:55):
how good of he's been as a heel, the heat
he has on him, he won I want to see
him get his ass kicked. I you know what, and
if Goldberg doesn't come back, and I would really advise
that he does not, because, as you said, it would
completely stop Ziggler in his tracks and undo all of
the goodwill that has happened over the last couple of
months since his return. I wouldn't mind. However, Sean Michael's

(01:34:17):
giving him a superkick in return. I don't think that
would necessarily bury Ziggler because Ziggler has something coming back
to him. I mean, you just know.

Speaker 2 (01:34:27):
That's the law of WWE. It is the law of
the land.

Speaker 1 (01:34:31):
And I don't know about you, but if Shawn Michaels
gives him a superkick in return, I think that's fair play.

Speaker 4 (01:34:36):
Oh yeah, that one hundred percent. But that it's Shawn
Michaels and even in.

Speaker 5 (01:34:42):
His latest match it wasn't his best, but it wasn't
Goldberg bad. And like you said that, like you know,
like he Seawn Michaels got the superkick, so it's just
you know, it's lawline, He's gonna get his, and that
I wouldn't mind. You know, the Maze comes out to
fight Ziggler and the ref gets knocked down and something
happens to the ring and he gets eats the sweet

(01:35:03):
Him music, which he should.

Speaker 4 (01:35:05):
He's a heel. He has to get his eventually.

Speaker 5 (01:35:08):
But if it's just to get squashed by Goldberg, just
so Goldberg feels better about himself that people don't remember
him as that catastrophe attempting the Jackhammer Undertaker, like that
for me, Like come on, like Sean Michaels all day,
you know, big name heels get rocked by guys all
the time. Sometimes legends, and that is fine, and that

(01:35:30):
is completely fair game to me because Sean Michaels is
already invested into this storyline.

Speaker 4 (01:35:35):
They've already built it.

Speaker 5 (01:35:36):
Ziggler has already hit him with a sweet him music
to begin with Goldberg like, yeah, sure he's chirped him
a few times.

Speaker 4 (01:35:43):
But he has nothing to do with this. He shouldn't
be involved with this.

Speaker 5 (01:35:47):
I just I hope they leave it as is Mis
versus Ziggler, who will put on a good match and
Sean Michaels will get his revenge somewhere in there and
Ziggler will get his, but nothing to the point that
he will, you know, be halted by this because if
he eats a sweet chym music and then loses, at
least he can come back the next thing and say like, oh,

(01:36:07):
you know it took that old fart like getting me
from what I wasn't looking to help the miswin something
that won't completely derail him. But you got to know
that if Goldberg is coming back, it's gonna be about
three four spears in a row a jackhammer, and they're
just gonna mail it in and it's just going to
completely very dull and take away all the credibility from

(01:36:28):
what he's saying, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:31):
You can't bring Goldberg back, And I'm hoping it's nothing
more than WWE using Ziggler as a conduit to acknowledge
to fans like, yeah, hey, you know, we're sorry, it
was a terrible match. We apologize on behalf of Goldberg
and the ww just burying him through Ziggler. I'm hoping
it's nothing more than that, and it's not really truly
seeds being planted for a Goldberg return because I don't

(01:36:53):
need to see it. I will be fine if I
never see Goldberg in a wrestling ring again. And I
think he was just the right guy the right place
at the right time that didn't need to have a
whole lot of wrestling ability and just needed to have
a look and intensity and during the Monday Night War
era again, he was just the right guy in the
right place at the right time. And I think that
there's nothing more to add to that. I mean, I

(01:37:14):
don't think he would be He would deny to you
that he is not a wrestling technician by any means.
I think you and I have more wrestling ability in
terms of knowing holds and counters and you know, basic
fundamentals than Goldberg does beyond his jackhammer and spears. So,
all right, one, a couple a couple other things that
I wanted to touch on, and then we'll can wrap

(01:37:34):
this thing up. Is maybe you don't have a whole
lot of thoughts on this, but what do you think
about Maria Canells as the first ever pregnant as she
said at fifteen hundred times, the first ever pregnant champion
WW champion as the twenty four to seven champion, So
what are your thoughts on this? And how do they
get out of this because Maria is essentially immune being

(01:37:57):
pregnant from anybody touching her.

Speaker 5 (01:37:59):
Well, there's a few things about this which I actually
like the fact that I don't know how.

Speaker 4 (01:38:06):
They're gonna get out of this.

Speaker 5 (01:38:07):
I really don't have one inkling of an idea how
this is going to go. I think it will eventually
have something to do with Mike getting out of this,
maybe paying her while she's asleep. But the fact that
I have no solution for this is a good thing
in my mind that I don't know how And the
twenty four to seven has been pretty predictable for the

(01:38:27):
most part, you know, our truth running away from the
same seven or eight guys is running after him in
single file and hiding in miscellaneous places, which for the
most part I've enjoyed. But I like this because it's different.
It's outside the box.

Speaker 4 (01:38:42):
You know that it's gonna be that she's probably going
to carry it through.

Speaker 5 (01:38:46):
At least SummerSlam, as opposed to the three or four
title changes per week.

Speaker 4 (01:38:51):
I like that.

Speaker 5 (01:38:52):
It's a different element to the twenty four to seven
championship that is usually just a roll up in the
corridor or pinning someone while he's asleep, and just like
crazy changes of the title all the time, this will
add some stability to the title. You'll have one person
hold it that for more than a week at a time.
I really like it. I hope they don't drag it

(01:39:12):
out for too long because it will get still fast.
In my mind, I'm hoping it will wrap up around SummerSlam,
But for the time being, I like it. It's different,
it's outside the box, it's not predictable, and in this case,
that's a good thing in my mind. So yeah, I
think it's really well thought out by and it's a
good opportunity to get two characters and Mike and Maria

(01:39:36):
kanal Is on television. I'm happy to see I guess
Paul Hayman using them more.

Speaker 1 (01:39:42):
And Maria is just so unappreciated for how good she
can be on the mic, and she can be nasty
and she's so believable as that, like just crazy witch
of a wife, and I love it. I you know,
do I think that they're gonna find a way out.
Of course, they're going to find a way out. And

(01:40:02):
that's what I said on my show was Mike Canalis
is probably gonna be the only way, the only one
to be able to touch her number one, and they
need to be very careful as a publicly traded company.
Maria is actually pregnant, so they can't do anything physical
with her. Mike has to pin her while she's sleeping.
I just see no other way out of it. Nobody
else is gonna do it. Mike Canalis spends his every
day with her. It has to be Mike who pins

(01:40:24):
her and gets the belt back. And then you can
go back to the typical rules of anybody attacking anybody. Uh,
let me ask a followup a question to this, because
I am just struggling to find in my mind, what
the payoff is for this of Mike and Maria Kannalis
with their kind of very awkward relationship, of Maria telling
Mike you can't be the father of my children. This
isn't your baby. What's the payoff? Where are they going

(01:40:48):
with this?

Speaker 5 (01:40:50):
Well, they drop kind of that hint of the name
escagement of this tag team, but the tag Team Champions
from the next ta it seems that one of those
guys may have an inkling of it. But you know what,
there's just some part of me that I hope it's
not true, But it just feels like Bronze Stroman's gonna
be involved in this. I feel like in some way

(01:41:10):
or another, I don't know specifically what it is that
Braunz Strowman could end up being like her henchmen of sorts.
I'm not sure. I know that they had that quick
encounter on RAW, but I hope it's not true because
we've seen braun Stroman go down this irrelevant path before
and he's kind of on there now.

Speaker 4 (01:41:30):
I'm just something goofy like this like he did with
his eight year old tag team partner.

Speaker 5 (01:41:35):
But I don't know what it is because and that's
one thing I've liked about the storyline, But the one
hint I've kind of.

Speaker 4 (01:41:43):
Had is something to do with Brounz Stroman.

Speaker 1 (01:41:47):
Oh well, I hope not, please please, I just I
don't need Bronz Strowman in goofy weird roles. I mean,
Broun Strowman has had two terrible WrestleManias in a row
with the Saturday eight Line Live Crew and then the
eight year old Tag you know, his tag team partner.
He just Bronze Stroman. While he seems to be a

(01:42:08):
one trick pony and just tipping big things over and
doing wacky things. They need something for Bronze Stroman to do.
And this is not how I would utilize Bronze Stroman,
at least especially if you're gonna try to keep him babyface.
You just can't keep him babyface if that's the case
associating with Maria knelis, if he's revealed to be the
father in some kind of Mariy Povich type of way,

(01:42:29):
you can't have Braunz Stroman stay as a babyface. You
just simply can't. So I hope it's not bron Stroman.
I hope that's nothing more than just people trying to
stir up rumors. But I honestly, if that's not the case,
I have no idea what the endgame is here. I
have zero idea. Maria is legitimately pregnant. She can't compete
in any kind of physicality whatsoever. So I don't know

(01:42:51):
where this ends.

Speaker 2 (01:42:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:42:52):
Maybe we again, it could be somebody else we.

Speaker 2 (01:42:54):
Find out as the father of her child, or I
don't know. I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:42:58):
And it's as a kind of booking themselves into a corner.

Speaker 2 (01:43:01):
And maybe they have no idea.

Speaker 5 (01:43:03):
Yeah, well maybe they are just playing a week to week,
which isn't a bad thing. Maybe it's more like you said, raw,
it's more authentic. And again, for the most part, I'm
liking this, and I don't mind that I have no
idea where it's going. I think it's adding to the storyline.
I think it's changed in the direction of what was
becoming a pre predictable scene surrounding the twenty four seven Championship.

(01:43:27):
I like Maria Knelis, I like Mike Canel's. They are
intriguing characters to me, and it leaves something to be
desired every week, and that's what I'm looking forward to.
I'm looking forward to the next show and seeing where
they go with this. So yeah, I have really no
idea what the payoff is here, what the conclusion is,

(01:43:47):
but I don't mind it.

Speaker 4 (01:43:48):
I'm just looking forward to seeing what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:43:51):
Yeah, that's kind of the weird thing too, is like
I'm intrigued when I see Mike and Maria Canelis.

Speaker 2 (01:43:56):
I pay attention.

Speaker 1 (01:43:57):
Maria is very good. You just gravitated to her. And
it's not because she's a really attractive woman, and she is,
let's be honest, but that's not why I'm gravitated towards her.

Speaker 2 (01:44:07):
I'm gravitated towards her.

Speaker 1 (01:44:08):
Because she's just intriguing when she speaks.

Speaker 2 (01:44:10):
She's believable when she speaks.

Speaker 1 (01:44:12):
And this is a very different storyline that we have
no idea where it's going, and I pay attention, so
they have my attention. They're umhooked, and I mean, we're
just gonna have to go for the ride and see
where it goes.

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
And I can see this also just.

Speaker 1 (01:44:25):
Being you know what, guys, the writing team goes, we're
at the end of the storylines, anybody have any ideas
and goes, I don't know, and they just suddenly forget
that it ever exists in the next Monday night and
they just move on.

Speaker 2 (01:44:35):
I mean, this could be.

Speaker 1 (01:44:36):
Also a story that they're really not leading to anything,
and then it's just all of a sudden doesn't exist
next week on raw. I mean I could see that too,
So so one more thing, well and not one more
actually have a couple more things quickly is what do
you think is up with the Roman reigns? I guess
mystery attacker or whatever the heck happened scaffolding and boxes

(01:44:57):
fell on him, but then he was miraculously okay and
then acts the jerk towards the amts.

Speaker 2 (01:45:03):
What was this?

Speaker 5 (01:45:04):
Well, lady just said it's his content, too cool for
school type of attitude.

Speaker 4 (01:45:09):
But I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:45:12):
Obviously it's gonna be something big of sorts. I thought
that they were just gonna lead to another Samoa Joe
match at SummerSlam.

Speaker 4 (01:45:21):
I really don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:45:23):
I'm curious to see how they're gonna build this with
just a week and a half till SummerSlam.

Speaker 4 (01:45:29):
I am kind of intrigued on it. I want to
see who it is.

Speaker 5 (01:45:33):
I have an inkling that's gonna be something rather underwhelming,
but I'm hoping it's not, and I think that they've
left the door open enough for us to perhaps be
intrigued to that point.

Speaker 4 (01:45:45):
I think that maybe I don't even know.

Speaker 5 (01:45:48):
I thought maybe for a second it could be Dang O'Brien,
something to do with his career altering announcement. I think
that would be a cool, fresh matchup. But at the
same time, I'm not sure if they want those two
to cross as fast as they're kind of going in
two different directions at now. I don't think it's a
Drew McIntyre or Sea mcman or someone with Joe that's
kind of been there, done that, But I don't know.

(01:46:10):
I'm intrigued to find out who it is, but I'm
being cautiously optimistic because typically with Roman reigns type angles,
it just is usually underwhelming.

Speaker 4 (01:46:20):
So we'll see.

Speaker 5 (01:46:22):
I hope it's not just some NXT call up to
be a sacrificial lamb for them, But like I said,
we'll see.

Speaker 4 (01:46:29):
It's got my intrigue and my interest is piqued at
the very least it is.

Speaker 2 (01:46:36):
I'm in the same boat. I don't know what this was.

Speaker 1 (01:46:38):
I mean, I know some people are saying, Oh, it's
just they're just billing it as an accident. I'm like, well,
that'd be a super boring way to end SmackDown for
have this go in a no direction of just having
things fall on Roman for no reason. It has to
be somebody who blatantly did this, and as you just said,
my only inkling too, and from other shows I've listened
to and stuff i'm reading reading, it's it could be

(01:47:00):
Daniel Brian. I mean maybe that very well could be.
And if that's the case, I mean, I'm fine with it.
These two have crosspaths before in much different roles, of course,
But I mean, if it's not Dan O'Brien, I have
no idea who it is, and I'm fine with that.
I don't need to know, I don't want to know,
and that that's fine too. I just when Roman comes

(01:47:20):
out and just acts like total, you know, total asks
towards the EMTs. We're trying to help him, and you know,
it's just that kind of stuff is a little bit
tone deaf when it comes to WW scripting him as
a babyface. You know, mister too cool for School needs
to realize that, hey, you know, fans see this stuff
and if you want to gain the support of fans

(01:47:41):
and not act like you're holier than now, I mean,
like little stuff like that that's overlooked and he's too tough.
He's resisting medical attention. This isn't Mick Foley falling off
the cell and he resists medical attention and comes off
the stretcher and goes back up the cell. This is
just you know, stuff falling on him and then all
the all the mts want to do is check on him,
make sure he's okay, and he just brushes them off

(01:48:01):
like you know, they're yesterday's garbage. And that kind of
stuff is not great for him trying to be a
long term successful babyface.

Speaker 2 (01:48:08):
But yeah again.

Speaker 1 (01:48:09):
And speaking of sacrificial lambs, though, Sammy Zain who seems
to be next in line for the sacrifice of Alistair Black,
and that can be the only conclusion to this. Sammy's
Zaane's win loss record is like one win and I
think probably twenty losses since he returned.

Speaker 2 (01:48:28):
I'm not even kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:48:29):
The only victory he's had is in the tag team
match with Kevin Owens at the pay per view.

Speaker 2 (01:48:33):
That's it. I don't believe he's.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
Won a singles match since he returned, so it looks
like it appears as if he's going to be next
up to have an L in the lost column for
facing Alistair Black.

Speaker 5 (01:48:45):
What do you think, Well, look, I'm kind of just
becoming accustomed to him being kind of just a job
or at this point, he's obviously

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}6 YEARS AGO: WWE Week in Review - Ziggler vs Goldberg? The Value of Mid-Card Belts & Kofi Not Feeling Like a True WWE Champion?