From The Vault: The Top 5 Moments that Changed the Wrestling Industry Forever w/Co-Host Ashley Mann

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's time for your weekly fix of wrestling Nostilgia.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
When we look at wrestling's past eras from the Attitude
era through the Reality era, I'd like to think, then
maybe this company will be better after Vince McMahon's dead.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
But the fact is it's it's.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Gonna get taken over by his idiotic daughter and his
dupest son in law and the rest of his stupid family.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Juesday Day.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Here on the WWE podcast. Hey guys, welcome to the
WWE Podcast. It is Wednesday, March eleventh, twenty twenty. Thank
you very much for taking a moment out of your
day evening. Were really more than a moment, right. This

(00:50):
is a long show that I've got for you guys today,
and it's from the vault, as I like to say.
And what I've done is pulled one from the from
our library that I feel was well received. Number one
and number two a great topic, and today is the
top five moments that myself and Ashley Man believe were

(01:14):
the biggest moments that change the wrestling industry forever. So
this is about an hour and a half long conversation
and it was originally published on the Feed on May
thirteenth of last year, but I felt it was worth
bringing back up because it was a fun show and
it's great to always give top fives, especially when you're
looking at a topic of this magnitude. So definitely take

(01:37):
a listen to this, maybe break it up in your day,
your work day, if you know I'm making your work
day go by faster. Hey, I hope, I am, I hope,
I am. I'm not allowed to listen to podcasts or
I work because as a supervisor, I can't wear headphones
at all. So yeah, that's what they pay me the
big bucks for, I guess. But so hopefully this is

(01:57):
something that adds to your day because if you wrestling audio,
you're gonna love today's episode. Yes it's a repeat, but
I do have a lot of new listeners, and I
know that many of you may not have gone back
this far. This is what's eight months ago that I
published this, so well, actually what ten months ago that
I published this, So it's been quite a long time.

(02:17):
So new listeners who haven't who haven't mentioned in this
far back in the library, I think you're gonna like
this one. And those of you that have listened to it,
it's worth a listen again, because we give some audio
and we we live out these moments with you guys
as they made us feel in the in real time.
So we're going to get to that conversation with Ashley

(02:39):
in just a moment. But first, thank you guys for
listening to the show. There will be two more show,
three more shows coming this week as we do AE
w NXT and then of course your Week in Review
with with Anthony, who's going to join me on Sunday
as we really start to ramp up to WrestleMania thirty
six now, and so I'm really looking forwarded to this.

(03:02):
Whereas this year's WrestleMania, I know many people are concerned
about the coronavirus possibly canceling WrestleMania thirty six, I would
say with pretty high confidence that WWE will likely not
cancel unless they are completely their hand is forced, and
at this point their hand is being pressured, but I
don't think it's being broken to cancel WrestleMania. I mean

(03:26):
they are literally going to have to pry this pay
per view out of Vince McMahon's dead cold hands to
cancel this, and it could happen if the city of
Tampa decides that, hey, you know, we're not we're not
going to be hosting this event at this time, and
maybe they delay it. I would assume that it's going

(03:46):
to go on as normal. I have fairly high confidence,
and when you put a number on it, maybe sixty
percent seventy percent chance that it still goes on as planned.
But there is that small chance that WrestleMania does get postponed.
I don't know how the hell that would work. I
would assume that maybe they if it was going to happen,

(04:08):
that they would push it back a month and have
I mean, you could build it for a month, but
this would throw a complete monkey wrench into everything. So
I believe, I truly believe in my harder hearts that
WWE Vince McMahon is going to do absolutely everything in
his power to prevent the cancelation of WrestleMania thirty six

(04:30):
because it just creates so many issues down the line.
And to be honest, this virus is to me, it's
a lot of media hype. I mean, what, twenty two
people have died in the United States. Ninety four percent
of the people that are infected are in China. It's
only the mortality rate is five percent if you're affected,

(04:52):
and of those five percent, it is elderly and older
adults that already are prone and have underlying res inpiratory
issues that are the ones that are dying. I mean,
I don't remember this mass hysteria with the swine flu,
and the swine flu killed twelve thousand people. So I
think a lot of this is politically motivated. If you
look at CNN and MSNBC and all those far left

(05:15):
leaning news outlets that I will just I'm not gonna
get political, but they're not my favorite. I'll leave it
at that, not my favorite news outlets. But this is
if you don't think it's politically motivated, you're not paying attention.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Right.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
They're trying to pin this whole thing on Donald Trump.
They're trying to pin the whole thing on Donald Trump
of how a terrible response he's doing and it's spreading
because of him. Look, if you're a Democrat that wants
Trump out of office, you are rooting for the economy
to crash. Why Because that is a strong suit of
Donald Trump right now. That is what he is riding
his campaign on, at least on one of the big
major issues of the economy being so damn good. So

(05:50):
if you can pin this on Donald Trump and then
point to Donald Trump in a crumbling economy because of
the coronavirus of panic and fear, that's your objective. So
if you're a Democrat, some are likely wishing for and
trying to spread the message of panic on news outlets.
So there's my political I guess tidbit for the day.

(06:10):
I mean, I don't think it's an opinion. I think
it's really just kind of fact of what's happening right now.
When you look at the statistics of previous previous viruses
with swine flu H one N one remember that right
West Nile virus, and more people have died, as I've
talked about this podcast during with car accidents or cancer

(06:31):
or obesity that kills three hundred thousand people a year.
But don't worry. We're worried about the next flavor of
you know, Dorito's right, So all of this is just
media hype. And could it get really bad? Yeah, it could.
It could get really bad, and in which case wwe
would probably have to cancel the show, and they probably
rightly should cancel the show if it gets to a
level I don't know the exact numbers or level that

(06:52):
that would be, but they if it reaches that level,
whatever that is, in which it would just be stupid
for them to continue the event, then yeah, this would
be this would be silly not to cancel. Now, with
that being said and all of my political political leanings

(07:13):
out of the way, Donald Trump did just suspend all
travel from Europe to the United States for thirty days.
Do the math. Thirty days from now April eleventh. WrestleMania
thirty six is April fifth, So anybody from Europe, you're

(07:37):
stuck and they won't be able to travel to the
United States for thirty days. That is a big problem
for WWA. Why because they have a huge international audience
that comes to the WrestleMania events. And rightfully so, those
are likely the ones that are infected. If you look

(07:58):
at percentages again it's still low, but the ones that
are infected. It all started in China and then spread
and got to the United States. But it's coming from overseas,
so I understand the travel band, but this is really,
I think negatively going to impact WrestleMania, even if it's
not canceled. But it's crazy. We're even think talking like that.

(08:18):
But I still think it's going to go on as planned.
I really do believe that. But international fans may have
a huge issue right now, and I'd be pissed, but
there's nothing you can do. I mean, so, all right,
Well with that little bit of news and politics, Oh boy,
I'm getting myself in trouble out of the way. We're
going to take a quick break for the sponsor, and

(08:38):
then we're going to go right into the conversation with
Ashley that took place in May of this past year.
So strap in. I think it's gonna be a good
one and I will talk to you guys in a
couple of days. Take care.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
You're listening to the WWE podcast. We'll be right back
after this short break.

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Speaker 1 (09:53):
Welcome back to the WWE podcast. Let's get back to
more great wrestling audio.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
All right, everybody, welcome back, and I have a returning
guest who is back on the show, and we are
here to discuss our top five moments that change the
wrestling industry forever. So it is not an easy list
to compile. I have a feeling we'll probably have one
or two in common. But with so many moments throughout

(10:35):
the wrestling lore history, I don't think that this is
going to be a very similar list that we have.
But that's the fun of it. So without further Ado, Ashley,
I want to welcome you back to the show.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
Hey, thank you so much for having me. It's always
fun to talk wrestling with you.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Definitely, and I think today this is something I haven't
done in a while, and it came from a suggestion
from somebody on Twitter, like, hey, you know, why don't
you do it top five? And I said, you know
that that's.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
A really good idea.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
And you know, top five lists are extremely subjective and
everybody has their own opinion on it. Everybody has their
own two cents, and you know, I probably have things
on here that people go, why do you have that
on your list? And but that's the fun of this.
And I'm sure that you know, people will maybe they'll
probably agree with a couple of these, but as far

(11:24):
as the order goes, this is gonna be a lot
of fun.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
Definitely is. I'm stoked to see what your top five is.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
So just so everybody knows, at least from from my list,
I didn't just keep it to WWE. There is a
one out there that is kind of an outlier and
outside the WWE scope. I kind of ironic, Hiven, this
is the WWE podcast, but we are ranging this all
the way through the spectrum of wrestling, and so I

(11:54):
only have one that's outside the list, and it's this
is very difficult to do. I'm really excited to get started,
So let's just jump in. Ashley. What is your number
five pick for the moments that changed wrestling forever?

Speaker 4 (12:12):
Oh? Making me go first. Okay, So now full disclosure,
I went full spectrum. I did not just zoom in
on WWE. And I went back in history too, So
I kind of went all over the place. And I
hate to start off on a negative, but if we're
just looking at the wrestling business in its entirety, I

(12:34):
went with the bin Wall tragedy not for the basic
and what everyone would think reasons. I went with it
because of the changes that happened after it, with the
inflemation of the wellness policy and wrestler's health in general,
and just how it changed everything from where you don't
see chair shots to the head anymore or anything like that,

(12:56):
just the safety measure that came out of that, and
just putting wrestlers and their human beings in itself forward
in first before anything else. So I went with that.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
That's a hell of a pick. I will tell you
that that is on my list somewhere. It's not my
number five. But that moment was a moment that as
a wrestling fan, I thought I didn't think was real.
If I'm correct in recalling this situation. The week before,
Vince McMahon had a storyline that he basically killed himself.
I mean, yeah, he got in his limo, shut the

(13:29):
door and the thing blew up. And the next week
he had to come back on the show and tell
us about the tragedy of Chris Benwa. Now that was
obviously before they knew the details of the whole scenario
that you know, he did what he did and killed
his family and then killed himself. So you know, after that,
they pretty much erased him from the memory of WWE.

(13:52):
It's like he didn't exist. They took him off all
of the pages on their website, none of his matches
are contained in the network. He just doesn't exist, and
rightfully so in some respects after what he did. But
you're absolutely right they brought in the wellness policy, just
the view how media vilified wrestling after that, they latched

(14:15):
onto that like it was they were a starving wolf
in the middle of a forest in winter. They jumped
on that because it fit with the narrative that they
like to portray that all wrestlers are on steroids. And
this was because Crisp and Why had been ongoing use
of steroids and it deteriorated his brain, which you know,
this whole thing, so it really was a very dark

(14:39):
moment for the wrestling industry as a whole, and no
question about that.

Speaker 4 (14:43):
Yeah, and I think doting gets a bad rap when
it comes to wrestler's health, or I guess it's up
until that point because a lot of the wrestlers, the
majority I would say, didn't start in ww mind you,
before the wellness policy really took effect. Who knows how
many of them did steroids, but wrestling, for whatever reason,
they were just vilified. For all sports I think in

(15:05):
the well more so in the past, have had their
issues with steroids and stuff like that. But I just
feel like WWE was just crucified in the media because
of it, and maybe, in my personal opinion, unfairly. So. Yes,
they could have done things prior to this, but no
one could have ever predicted that scenario to happen. And
for whatever you know, I don't. I know they've done

(15:27):
research and Chris Nowinski has done extensive brain research and
concussions on it and things like that. So the horrible,
horrible negative that it was, I think we have to
look for the silver lining and all negative things that happened.
And I hate to say it, but if anything good
was going to come out, of that horrible tragedy, I
think this was one of the blessings that came from it,

(15:48):
and I think it's it was kind of a blessing
in disguise because now they are focused on making sure
wrestlers are safe and healthy so they can have a long,
fulfilled life afterwards. So out of that, I tried to
look for the positive and I think that changed wrestling
as we know it, no.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Question, and that is a one and really the only
bright thing to come out of this whole situation was
that it brought the wrestler's health and mental health to
the forefront of WWE. They were forced to now deal
with it. It wasn't just you know, this this guy
who was retired for years and decades and you know
he ended up, you know, committing suicide. I mean, this

(16:27):
was an active competitor, one of their top guys in
the business, one of the best of all time. Regardless
of what he did outside of the ring, he was
one of the best in the in the ring, bar
none to have it while he was active on the
roster as a top guy to do this and then
have WWE not really knowingly recognize when it first happened,

(16:49):
doing a whole tribute show to him, and then backtracking
and backpedaling, and it was. It was a crazy moment,
especially given two years before that when Eddie Guerrero passed away.
You know, it seemed like it was one right after
the other. Obviously Eddie was Eddie's was a much different circumstance.
He had just a week in heart from so many
years of using pills and things like that. But this

(17:09):
was this was a hell of a moment for all
wrestling fans across the world. And I hope you don't
see something like that again. But let me get to
my number five. This is just to bring the audience
back up here, because I think this is one that
will forever be in the minds of fans. If you're
an Attitude era fan, and I would think most majority

(17:30):
of you are, this was one of the biggest moments
in that era, and that was Mick Foley winning the
WWF title for the first time. And so my number
five pick is that particular moment. And that's because number one,
it was the turn in the tide of the ratings
war with WCW and Monday Night Raw. This was the
first time in at what eighty two eighty forty six

(17:51):
weeks somewhere in there. I don't know the exact number,
that the WWF had beaten WCW Nitro in the ratings
that exact night. And it was ironic because Tony Shavanni,
who was on WCW commentary at the time, told everybody
on their watching and listening to Nitro to oh, well,

(18:13):
mcfoley's we've been told the mc foley is gonna win
the WWF championship tonight. That'll put butts in seats. And
what did they do. They had half a million, or
it might even mean more like two million people switch
from raw or Nitro to Raw to see that. So
they inadvertently advertised the show for Raw because people wanted
to see that. So it was a hell of a moment.

(18:34):
On top of the fact that McK foley, who does
not fit into the corporate mold whatsoever. I know they
put that on air, but it's also behind the scenes.
I mean, you look at mc foley, he doesn't exactly
represent the poster boy for ww at the time. Vince
McMahon's obsession with the bodybuilding types did not fit in
McK foley's profile, and so I mean figuratively. Literally, you

(18:56):
had a guy that would if you looked at him,
he doesn't look like the paper champion that w W
would have won it at the time. And to top it off,
Stone Cold returned to help him do it and hit
the rock in the head of the chair one of
the biggest pops of all time. So that's my number five, Ashley,
what do you think about this moment?

Speaker 4 (19:15):
Oh, one hundred percent. That's actually one of my honorable
mentions and was kind of built into my number two pick,
which we'll get to later. But yeah, as you were
saying that, I was just reliving in my head just
the feeling that I remember getting watching it and just
seeing mankind mcfully actually just being the champion. Just how
surreal it was, because if you just think of all
the champions prior to that night, like you said, he

(19:37):
definitely didn't fit the mold. And I think that was
just groundbreaking and maybe it doesn't get as much credit
as it should in the sense that it changed who
Dody viewed as their champion going forward. I think that
kind of paved the way for wrestlers that we see now,
like a Daniel O'Brien or Kevin Owens maybe in a
similar as type of fashion for Kevin, just like not

(19:59):
the stereotypical huge guy, bodybuilder, all that stuff. Just a
pure good wrestler, someone who loves the business and you know,
like you take away what you want with Mick, but
his characters. He was one of the best wrestling minds
out there. And to see him finally get his opportunity
and his moment was just amazing and it definitely changed

(20:21):
wrestling going.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Forward right And McK foley is a perfect example of
a guy that is showing you and shows the audience
of today that you don't have to have a million
dollar body to be one of the top guys in
the business. And mc foley understood the psychology better than
anybody on that roster and could pull you into his
character and you didn't care that he didn't look like

(20:45):
a million bucks and he was right out of the
you know, a GQ magazine. It didn't matter because his
character was so compelling and it was It was just
one of the most amazing moments of Stone Cold returning.
The tide turns WWF does not look back, and they
go on to obviously defeat WCW in the ratings so

(21:09):
let's get to number four, Ashley, what is your number
four pick?

Speaker 4 (21:15):
Okay, so my number four maybe wasn't a moment in
the TV sense that we all got to witness, but
I think it changed the way ww specifically did their
business going forward, and that was when they went public
as a stockholder and a actual public company that stockholders

(21:36):
could buy and invest in. Because I feel like maybe
that may not get as much attention and maybe it
doesn't get looked at as much as it should, because
especially nowadays, I think WWE going public they Vince finally
had someone to answer to, and especially after he purchased WCW,
it was kind of his world. The whole wrestling industry

(21:56):
in and of itself was his world, and he didn't
have to answer it anyone. He could do whatever he
wanted and no one would ever say anything to him.
Going public, he had to be mindful of the product
that he was putting on and he had people to
actually answer to now because the stockholders and the people
who were buying into the do to B as a
brand and as a company had a little bit of

(22:17):
input because if the stock drops, then Vince has to
take a look at that, and that negatively impacts him financially.
So I think all the storylines and the characters and
the direction of the company going forward, Vince had to
actually pay attention to maybe a little bit differently and
more so than he had to before they actually made
the company a public company.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Very interesting, pick, I did think about that. I would
say that's also on my imaginary honorable Mentions paper that
I have here. And you know, that is a huge moment.
I think it's one that's overlooked by a lot of
fans that when you take a company public, like you
just said, you're no longer answering to the internal management,
internal voices. You have to listen to the Wall Street investors,

(23:02):
you have to listen to the stakeholders, the stockholders. You
have to listen to a much larger audience than you
did when you initially went when you stayed private. Obviously,
the benefits of that are you have a hell of
a lot more revenue coming in. That's how you that's
how you can increase your capital in the company. I mean,
I understand why they did it, and it's interesting that

(23:24):
they waited nine years to actually change it to a
PG product. When it happened in two thousand and eight.
I was believe it was July of two thousand and
eight when they went to the soft PG product. But
you know, I think that doing that was smart. I
think they were in an extremely good financial position to
do that. In the I believe it was October of
ninety nine they went public, and so it was it

(23:47):
was a time that I didn't invest in it, and
I didn't think that it was at the time a
smart investment just because how many wrestling companies have gone public.
I mean, it was just such an unknown. But when
you look at it now, the corporate structure of WWE
is just revolving around the pleasing the stockholders. It's revolving

(24:09):
around the financials that they release every quarter. And the
negative of that is, well, now you are really trying
to serve multiple masters at the same time, not just
your live audience, but also making sure that the financials
and the data that comes out to the shareholders and
stockholders pleases them from a monetary perspective to show there's growth.

(24:33):
The problem with that is that sometimes you sacrifice a
better product for just simple increase in numbers to show
that you are quote financially healthy. An example of that
would be running a extremely long WrestleMania that is just
absolutely exhausting for most fans, whether you're in the arena
or you're sitting at home. I mean, you can barely

(24:53):
keep your eyes open. I actually fell asleep during the
main event that we've been building for six months. Actuallyly
fell asleep because I could not handle it getting that
far into the show. But my point is that you
want WWE is trying to please the stockholders by giving
a super long WrestleMania, which increases the quote number of

(25:16):
hours that people are engaged in the network, to simply
please the the you know, please Wall Street. So the
downside is that obviously the upside is, you know, got
a hell of a lot more revenue coming in than you
do if you stay.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
Private, exactly exactly. And I think whether them going public
is a negative or a positive, of course, I don't.
I'm not one hundred percent sure, because no one truly
knows all of their financials, But I think because at
the time or WF didn't need to go public, so
their their choice to do so was very eye opening,

(25:51):
especially now with me personally being older and being able
to look back on it and just seeing the change
and their decision from doing that. It's just amazing because
they didn't have to. But since they did, now, like
I said, they do have to answer, and they do.
Whether whatever it is. There's storylines just thinking back, like
for instance, the whole truth I don't know if you remember,
but the true status and Vince thing where he had her,

(26:14):
you know, bark as a dog in the ring. Yes, yes,
just simple things like that in mind you. Of course,
that was a different error completely in the world itself
was in a different place than to compare to where
it is now. They could never get away with doing
something like that, and I think maybe mainly so because
of them being public and because they are a nationally

(26:35):
traded company. I think if they weren't public today, they
can maybe get away with doing something nowhere of course,
nothing like that, but maybe just being edgier because they
wouldn't have anyone to answer to. So between that aspect
and just advertising and going forward, I just think that
that kind of changed the business for better or worse.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
It absolutely did, and obviously there are pros and cons
to both. I don't ever see them going back to
being a privately owned company. I think that this is
forever now going to be a publicly traded company. I
can say that was extremely high confidence. I don't think
Vince McMahon would ever backpedal at this point, and why
should he. I mean, the company is experiencing I wouldn't
say record profits because actually this quarter the profits or

(27:17):
losses net losses increased and they didn't bring in as
much revenue as they did this time last year. But
when you look back over the whole span of since
they went public, this has been a very financially smart
decision by Vince McMahon, despite the downsides of creative possibly
suffering long shows just to appease the data numbers that

(27:38):
people are engaged in the network longer because we're forced
to because you guys have longer shows. But things like
that that you do have a downside that people need
to look at that hey, you know, like while we
are the audience in the paying customer, they also want
to look good on Wall Street, which can obviously degrade
the product at times. So I'm gonna move on to

(28:00):
number four. And this isn't that interesting because we just
discussed it. My number four was Ben was obviously double
murder and suicide. I don't have a whole lot to
add to this other than just again, it was just shocking.
I remember being and I was in a hotel room
on vacation at the time, and I'm like, wait, what's happening?
And it was just very, very jarring to see. You know,

(28:22):
you never assumed that ben Wah was the perpetrator. You
always just assumed that, oh, my god, somebody broke in
and killed his family, you know, And when you look
at the descriptions of how he did it, it's just
it's brutal. It's absolutely horrifying to think about what he
did and how he did it. But like you just said,
positive and shining light in this whole thing. Christopher Nowinski

(28:45):
has done and dedicated his life to the effects of
blunt trauma, blunt force trauma on the skull and reoccurring
concussions which can degrade your brain cells obviously into a
state that is no longer really quote you. So, I
really don't have too much more to add to this,
do you, No?

Speaker 4 (29:04):
I think you and we've already pretty much covered all
a big tragedy that came from it. But again, like
you said earlier, just thinking about going back this last
night I was watching an old wrestle Mania I believe
it was also Mania sixteen and just seeing him in
the ring with Kurt Angle and Christ Jericho. But on
the description, it doesn't like Krispin Wat's name is nowhere.

(29:25):
You just see Chris Jericho and Curd Angle, and it's
just it's so sad and so unfortunate with what he
did in the situation that surrounded that tragedy in itself.
But again, like you said, the only silver lining in
all this was the wonness policy, and I think, of
course we would never win anything like that to ever
even be a thought, let alone the actual happening. But

(29:47):
you know, the the wonness policy in and of itself
has saved so many wrestlers, and know Jake the Snake
has benefited from it, and just so many countless wrestlers.
So I think I applaud to be for actually implementing
a policy like this because not a lot of other
sports companies or leagues do that. So kudos the WU
in that aspect.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, I agree too. I mean, obviously the NFL has
come under a huge fire over the last five years
for their lack of I don't want to say caring
but lack of at least showing that they're trying to
progress to make sure that these guys are taken care of,
not just during the game, but long term. I mean,
look at Brett farre who has been his quality of

(30:30):
life has gone straight down the tubes. I mean he
has admitted that, hey, like I can't remember what I
did yesterday. I mean, he knows who he is. But
you know, the repeated hits in the head are just unnecessary.
But the only thing I would say, though, as great
as ww has been, I don't know why it took
this massive and this magnitude of a tragedy to have

(30:51):
them implement something like this. You know, you wish that
they would have just been proactive rather than reactive on
this whole situation. But again, obviously it's in place now
and they have some of the top medical team medical
staff in the employed by WWE, and that's awesome. And
how many countless lives have been transformed and saved because

(31:13):
of this new wellness policy. So one question on this,
taking it in a slightly different direction, do you think
chrispin Wall will ever be inducted into the ww.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Hall of Fame?

Speaker 4 (31:23):
I don't I don't, and it kind of hurts me
to say that because me personally, being a wrestling fan,
I have always loved, yes, like the extreme rules and
you know, those type of matches have always been intriguing
to watch and just to see what the human body
can withstand in and of itself. I've always been more

(31:43):
intrigued by the technical aspect, like your Brett hartch your
Chrispin Walls, your curting was just the technical aspect and
the technical wrestler in and of itself, like the body
of it. I've always been more interested and more emotionally
involved in that, just to see how what moves they
can perform, everything is just that's always been more fascinating
to me. But so that part of me totally believes

(32:06):
that Chrismin Walsh should be inducted into the Hall of
Fame had the horrible tragedy not happened, I don't think,
especially with them being who they are as a company,
I don't think they ever would just because I think
the backlash they would receive would be more detrimental than
the reward that they would receive of actually inducting him
into it. It's so heartbreaking to stay because he contributed

(32:29):
so much to this business, but I don't think they
ever would. What about you.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah, look, I mean it's impossible at this point. And
the argument be, well, you know, you're just focusing on
his professional career, and if you just look at his
professional career one hundred and twenty percent, he should be
in the Hall of Fame. Unfortunately, when you do something
like this that is impossible to ignore or forget, you can't.

(32:54):
You just can't as a publicly traded company. I know
it's been twelve years. I don't think there's anyut of
time that could pass that you'd put Crispin will in
the Hall of Fame because it would be forever stained
by that memory of what he did. And it's unfortunate that,
I mean, he he has been scrubbed from WWE anywhere
and everywhere you look. And and I totally understand that.

(33:15):
I don't I don't blame them for doing that. They
should regardless of even if they're not publicly traded. It
just what he did was so horrifying you you just
can't untangle his professional career from his uh from from
what he did in his personal life. So I told
I'm with you. I don't think they ever put him
into the Hall of Fame. So number three and I'm

(33:35):
gonna go first this time. My number three is my
wc W pick, and that is Hulk Hogan turning heel
for the first time ever in his career with the nWo.
He revealed himself as the third member of the nWo.
And it was.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
It was.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
And look, I was admittedly a WWF hard hard fan
for WWF, I never really got into WCW's storylines.

Speaker 4 (34:02):
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
I wasn't really a channel changing guy. I wasn't at first.
And something about WWF just was a much higher caliber.
The storylines were better crafted. At the time, things made
more sense, the characters were more believable and intriguing than
WCWWCW just had to kind of be all over the place. However, obviously,
even as a WWF fan at the time, I recognized

(34:25):
the significance of this moment. I tuned in for this moment.
I watched this moment. And it doesn't matter what wrestling
fan you are. Everybody knows who Hull Hogan is. I
don't care who you are, what wrestling alliance that you follow.
Everybody knows that name. And we all know, he defected
to WCW and came in originally as the Yellow and

(34:46):
Red and he was the white meat babyface and people
still loved him. And when he made this turn, it
was one of the best turns that you could ever make.
Going from the top guy to the top heel. That's
not easy to do. Even Stone Cold Steve Austin tried
it at WrestleMania seventeen and his heel run was a flop.
I mean he would even admit that himself. It was shocking,

(35:08):
It was awesome. I think it saved WCW from the
tanking faster. I think it was one of the most
successful without questioning, not even in an argument. The nWo
storyline was one of the most successful in the company's
history and was attributable to its success, defeating WWF in
the ratings for eighty some weeks. So this was shocking

(35:29):
and he just was able to make this work and
it was just awesome to see. What about you.

Speaker 4 (35:37):
Yes, that kind of feeds into my number two pick,
but I agree with you one hundred percent. But for
my number three pick, it was kind of a twofold.
It was the ECW Company and Paul Hayman maybe a
little twofold there. So I don't think without ECW or
Paul Hayman that wrestling would even got into an attitude

(36:01):
error because I don't think they would have neither company,
WCW or WF at the time would have had the
gumption to do certain things that ECW was already doing.
In ECW as a company and as a brand in
and of itself, I think just generated this change in
wrestling in and of itself and the idea of wrestling.

(36:24):
It was the platform for so many superstars. We got
introduced to Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, RVD, and countless other wrestlers.
But I think too with ECW, we saw when Shane
Douglas won the NBA title, his promo after that, which
he just completely like obliterated the NWA and rechristened at

(36:44):
the ECW title. From that moment on, I think that
kind of changed wrestling as everyone thought of it. It
was just so many different things built into it. I
think without ECW's attitude, I think in a way that
was part of the attitude error change. Because ECW was
the exact opposite of WWFNWCW. I think that maybe catapulted

(37:08):
everything else and kind of give it a base where, hey,
we can be edgier, we can do things that a
traditional wrestling company and wrestling match you wouldn't even think of.
So I think ECW and Paul Hayman speaking of him specifically,
I don't think he gets enough credit that he deserves
for changing the industry and the idea of wrestling as
we know it. So that was my number three and

(37:30):
really quick. Stone Cold, when he got fired from WCW
went to ECW. In stone Cold, I feel, in my opinion,
really found his voice there and really created his Stone
Cold Steve Wallston character there, and I think without him
being confident of to give the promise that he did
and to voice his frustrations and his feelings, I think
that kind of sparked something in him to be able

(37:52):
to kind of hone in on his character going forward.
And of course, once he got into WWF, they gave
him the ring Master character, which was the complete opposite
of Stone Cold. But I think that kind of maybe
lit the fears a little bit, and then by the
time he got to do a DF and was able
to truly be who he was, he already had that
confidence and that wherewithal to give that that just heated

(38:13):
promo and just to take his character to the next level.
So that was my number three.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
H I'll be honest, I didn't even think about that.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
So that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
The ECW was without question, I mean, yeah, obviously it
went out of business. We all know that. And wwwe's
version of ECW was embarrassing when they had that back
in two thousand and eight. It was absolutely embarrassing, terrible. So,
I mean, I don't even count that that was. That
was a not even a respectable representation of what it was. However,
when it was back in the nineties, late nineties, early

(38:45):
two thousands, when ECW was absolutely kicking ass, they they
were clearly the third brand. They were the number three
out of the top three, and there's no question about that. However,
when you look at what they did, they had to
differentiate themselves from WWCW and WWF. They had to they

(39:07):
had to find something that was different. They couldn't be
WWF or WCW light. They had to do something that
was just so off of the rail and trail that
both of these companies were on. And they found that
and it was Yeah, it was hardcore. At times, it
was gruesome. You know, tables lit on fire, it was.
It was brutal, but super awesome to watch. The storylines

(39:30):
may now have been crafted as well as WWF and WCW,
but I don't think that mattered to a lot of
fans because it was just it was so hardcore. I mean,
you look at what it was, and yeah, you could
say it was mindless violence. But the guys that were
in there, some of those names that were in there
were not just meatheads. Obviously, as you just said, stone

(39:51):
Cold Steve Austin was born in ECW when he came
in and you mentioned all this, but he was able
to just speak his mind and vent about what Eric
Bischoff did getting him getting fired from WCW over the
phone from Eric Bischoff. It was it was where so
many stars were born. RVD a staple, the Sandman, I mean,

(40:11):
the list Saboo, the list goes on. And these guys,
while some were successful when the ECW was bought out
and kind of merged into WWE, some were, some weren't.
I mean RVD I think was one of the most
underutilized talent in WWF. Obviously he had a problem with
recreational drug use and all that. I get that, but
you know that ECW was a was such an influential

(40:37):
company at the time, during a time when violence on
TV to that level was acceptable, And that was only
twenty years ago, and you fast forward to today. People
would be on the streets tomorrow with pickets and posters
and at you know, they're calling their local senators and
assembly people saying, oh my god, do you see what

(40:58):
they're doing on TV. I mean, today's society is so
much different. Whether you want to say it's progressing or
regressing in some areas, it is what it is. But
it's just it was such an influential company at the time.
And while did I watch it faithfully, No, I didn't. Again,
I was WWF through and through, but I wasn't ignorant
and blind in tunnel vision. Only the WWF. I knew

(41:19):
it was going on, and some of the biggest names
ever came through that those doors. So I really like
your pick there, Thank you.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
Yeah, And just one more thing about it. I think
I'm not sure if it was in the Paul Hayman
documentary DVD itself or if it was in another WD DVD,
but the phrase that always stuck out to me the
most was when Paul Hayman said, you accentuate the positives
and hide the negatives. And I think that ECW True

(41:49):
and True did that because a lot of the guys
like bubbare W or a Devon WI, or the W
in general as that faction in ECW, A lot of
those names wouldn't have been on a radar for WCW
or for WWF at the time without an ECW, because yes,
like we'll just take Bubba ray Delli for instance, looking

(42:10):
at him in the ECW days, he would not have
even been a thought to a Ben twit Man or
an Eric Bischoff at that time because he wasn't their mold.
But you accentuate their positives, and see bubble Rat was
a great promo. They were solid in the ring, their fundamentals,
and I think Paul Hayman as a whole, he just
really was the best at finding the positives and all

(42:33):
the great things that wrestlers could do, whether or not
they physically on the outside looked like your stereotypical wrestler
at that time, and going forward, I think he just
really found a way to implement the positives in each
person and each wrestler and take them off to the
moon from that point on. Whereas if you just looked at,
for instance, Barbari Delly's negatives, he wouldn't have been I

(42:56):
just don't think that people like Bubbaret or even RBD,
where RBD was in the best promo, but he was
solid in the ring and that fan interaction that he had,
and just the emotion that those characters that evoked out
of you. I think that that really just hit home
with WWE and WWF depending on the error and WTW
and just really open their eyes to hey, yes they

(43:18):
may not look on the outside like your average wrestler
what you would maybe draw up to be the perfect wrestler,
but they they taught you how to find the positives
in every wrestler and go forward with that.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
I think that's what made ECW so attractive is that,
you know, you didn't have these guys that looked like
everybody else on the other two major programs. You had
guys that some of them looked like the common man.
And what do you think is that most people can
relate to the common man or common woman, and it
just it just made it so relatable and easy to watch,
and you could tell that the promos that these guys

(43:51):
were coming on the screen and giving nine times out
of ten were not scripted. You may have gotten bullet
points from Paul Hammon saying, hey, here's the direction we
want to go with your care, but the majority of
the language coming out was the person inside speaking, not
a script speaking for them. And I think a lot
of guys appreciated that on the roster, that they did

(44:11):
have that creative freedom to just fill in ninety five
percent of the blanks and be able to just be themselves,
because I think that's I mean, that's one of the
most I think common arguments and complaints about wh it's
who scripted its promos. Well, do you look at ECW.
That's the It was just a complete opposite. Did it
always work? No, Sometimes the promos went off the rails,

(44:31):
As you just mentioned. RVD was not the best promo
for sure, but that didn't really matter because he had
a connection with the fans that he could tell inside
the ring. He didn't look like these jacked up guys
that just you know, you can't relate to. He looked
like a common man. And I loved it, and and
so I think that's what attracted a lot of people
beyond the Oh I love the violence and the blood

(44:54):
and the fire and the tables on fire and the
barbed wire and all of that. Of course, that adds
to it, especially you are and you know, if you
were a teenage boy at the time like I was,
I mean, you look at that and you're like, oh,
this is great, you know, And yeah, there was that,
But ultimately, what's going to keep you to a product
is something that you can relate to and be engaged emotionally,

(45:14):
and ECW found that.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
For sure, for sure. Saying just one more thing about
that really quickly, Like you said, I think ECW really
gave the confidence in just being like your average person
because for me personally, I've never been the type to
be attracted more towards like this built up guy or
this built up girl, whatever you want to call it,

(45:40):
and having them be the champion, Like yes, it makes sense, yes,
Like this guy is six foot whatever, two hundred plus
pounds all muscle. Yeah, you would expect someone like that
to be a champion. But I think ECW and Paul
Hammond gave your average Joe and average Jane the option
in the the the opportunity to be a superstar and

(46:02):
to be a groundbreaking performer, because it's not all about
how you look on the outside. It's what you can
contribute to the business into the match and how you
can engage with the audience. So for me, ECW and
I well, disclosure didn't really watch ECW much at the time,
but just going back and doing my research and history
and just seeing what ECW as a company and Paul

(46:23):
Hammond contributed to the business, it really did just implement
the fact that you can be an average person, but
if your heart and determination and your work ethic is there,
you can be whatever you want to be. So I
think that kind of built into why I chose that
as my number three.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
No, totally reasonable and good logic there for number three.
Number two, I'm going to go first for number two,
and I'm going to say that Vince McMahon buying WCW
from Ted Turner in March of two thousand and one
is my number two. And the reason for that is, well,
I think the type speaks for itself. Vince McMahon bought

(47:01):
his competition and then did an on air storyline that
mimicked that exact transaction. Obviously, you know, Shane come out.
It came out in Panama City Beach, Florida, and under
sold Vince mcmahonor or basically signed the contract to buy
WCW and storyline saying that Shane bought it, not Vince.

(47:23):
Obviously Vince did. But it was just a surreal moment
to see Nitro on Raw and Raw on Nitro, to
see the video streams at the same time was surreal.
And even you know, beyond that, when Eric Bischoff was
eventually hired by Vince McMahon as the general manager and

(47:45):
they hugged on stage, that was surreal. There was just
so much about that that it's like, is this really happening?
Like what I mean, Vincement, did he really purchase WCW.
It was? It was awesome. Now could they have done
better with the talent they acquired from WCW. Of course,
And I think Vince McMahon or Jim Ross I should say,

(48:07):
who was the vice president of talent relations at the time,
has said multiple times that, you know, the invasion storyline,
they wish they could have redone, and because I think
they think they could have done a better job with it.
Now they couldn't bring in the big stars at the time.
They were still under contract with guaranteed money that they
had to let expire, which is why they didn't bring
in nWo with Hall, Nash and Hogan at this At

(48:29):
one time they had to wait until Goldberg's contract expired
with WCW to bring him in, So there was a
lag in the time that they bought the company until
the time that you saw them on WWF television, which
I think was a bit of a letdown because you
wanted to see those big stars come in. You wanted
to see Goldberg versus Austin, which never happened. You wanted

(48:50):
to see Hogan versus you know, a top guy as well,
and obviously we got Hogan and Rock, so it was
it was a time that I think was it was
surreal because the money and it wars officially ended the
two streams at once. Was just mind blowing to see.
And obviously the talent acquisitions that WWF got at the
time were just it was cool to see WCW on WWF.

(49:15):
I just think and in retrospect they know that they
could have probably done a better job navigating the CE
with those talent and exactly what to do with that.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
Storyline for sure, for sure, and again that kind of
plays into my number two as well. But I agree
with you one hundred percent the whole idea of WWE
buying WCW. I at that time I knew of WCW,
but like you, I was all WWF. I knew there
was another wrestling company on air, but I'm not gonna

(49:47):
say I didn't care, but I was all WWF for
whatever reason. But I was just solely invested into them,
and I wasn't one of the channel changers. I would
just I would be mindful like of course occasionally, but
I was just WWF all all through and through. So
for them to buy their competition was just mind blowing
to me. And then once I heard that, I kind

(50:07):
of tried to do a little bit of research. Back
in the day, there wasn't the Internet that we have now,
but I knew of the name of Eric Bischoff, so
seeing him come on board the years later was just
mind blowing. But doing research and knowing what I know now,
the whole I guess before I even go there the
whole Invasion angle. I full disclosure, I still go back

(50:28):
and watched The Invasion pay per view from time to
time today. So I was just intrigued in just like
the whole possibility of man, like, the WCW guys are
actually coming to WWF and they're on the same channel
and the same program, and they're under the umbrella. Like
to me, I was just so young at the time.
I was just like, man, this is crazy, what's going on?

(50:48):
So for me, just being the age I was and
not really knowing much behind the scenes or the whole
business as itself, I was just like, man, this is
so fascinating. And the Survivors series they had, I think
it was two thousand and one where it was the
Winner Takes All, Like, I was so emotionally involved into
that storyline and that angle. I was just in seeing
Austin switch brands well quote unquote switch brands and be

(51:10):
a WCW or Alliance guy. I was like, man, like,
what if WWF loses, what's gonna happen going forward? So
for me, being the age I was and just in
that in that from my mind at that time, I
was just like, man, what if WF folds or what
if what if they beat the WWF And obviously everyone
knows that didn't happen. But I just remember me would

(51:32):
be you wanna call it being naive, just thinking, man,
what if what if w WF does fold? So that
whole acquisition and then of itself was definitely game changing,
and and knowing now what we know with the contracts,
because to me, like I was never really a whole
Cogan person. He was, he was fine, I guess, but
I was more like a Roddy Ronny Piper person. I
loved like the bad guys for whatever reason. So not

(51:56):
having Hogan or Goldberg or Staying didn't really matter to
me as much. But the whole idea and the story
behind it, like it's WCW versus the WWF like that
that is what engaged me. And yes, had they had
the contracts not being there with Goldberg and Staying and
all of them, it could have it definitely would have
been more implemental in that aspect. But I just I

(52:18):
just remember that time in thinking, man if dode folds,
they and they lose, like what's gonna happen? So I
definitely just remembered the feeling of like.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
What if right, and totally yeah, I mean I think
that we just I mean, we just said it a
couple of times, but the fact that they didn't have
the big stars come in off the bat that I
think everybody wanted to see hurt the angle a little bit.
But when it first happened, like you said, with the
Invasion pay per view, and Austin, who Vince McMahon actually was,

(52:47):
was just hounding week after week he wants the Old
Stone Cold because at the time he had turned heel
or attempted to with the Rock at seventeen, and he
was giving Vince McMahon hugs and singing them songs and
having Debra bring him cookies all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
It was.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
It was just it was hilarious to watch. And you
obviously had Vince who tried to bring back the Old
Stone Cold, calling him out on SmackDown one week, you know,
begging him to give him a stunner, and eventually, you know,
he comes out the raw before the pay per view,
ends up clearing the ring with I don't know, like
eighteen stunners or something, and ends up clearing WCW and

(53:23):
ECW from the ring. Jim Ross is going crazy. Austin
ends up turning heel again at the Invasion pay per view,
leading ECWWCW as their leader, and yeah, so you got
that out of it, you got the what thing out
of that in that angle which still lives on seventeen
years later, to Vince McMahon's just I'm sure total despisement

(53:48):
of that. And one of the negatives, I mean, the storyline, Yeah,
could it have been better? Sure, I didn't dislike it
in the moment. I really liked it. But when you
think about now, as you just said, looking back, with
the knowledge you have now of what that whole thing meant, man,
you think of what it could have been and what

(54:09):
could have happened. If everything, all the pieces were in
place and the contracts were a null and void and
they were able to buy them out or bring them
in earlier, they could have had some amazing moments with
the top guys on RAW and the top guys from WCW.
They could have really really made it something incredibly special.
But I don't think I still don't think it was terrible.

(54:31):
I mean, the one negative I think you could say
about the whole thing, you know, at a macro level,
is well, without WCW, now where do these guys go
That WWF is not going to absorb and they don't
want to bring onto their roster. I mean that creates
one less major area that these guys can go for work.

(54:52):
And yeah, you could go on the independence scene, you
could go to New Japan, you could go to Ring
of Honor, But at that time, man, you take WCW
away and they only got at the time two hours
of programming with raw every week and smack down two hours.
They've only got X amount of time for these wrestlers,

(55:13):
and a lot of guys were out of work. And
so that was the tough part, on top of the
fact that when you don't have competition in any industry,
the product suffers because you get complacent. So there's that too.

Speaker 4 (55:25):
Yeah, And I think one more point to this topic
before we move on that people maybe either overlook or
just don't really think too much into They always say, oh, well,
the invasion storyline sucks, and of course everyone knew De
Daf was gonna win and all that stuff. Yeah, but
I guess what I would want people to think of

(55:47):
is don't you think if WWF had the opportunity to
bring in a Goldberg and a Staying and a Rick
Flair in Hokovi and then all those monumental characters at
the time, don't you think they would have? And if
they had not done the invasion angle when they did,
people would be crapping on WWF and Vince McMahon for
not doing it. So I think in some frame of mind,

(56:10):
in some aspect, they were kind of dealt like a
bad hand because they worked with what they had, getting
the wrestlers and the contracts that they could over. There
was really no other option for them to get a
Goldberg in. And yes, it would have been completely different
if Eric Bischoff, Goldberg's saying and all those came over
and were factors into the invasion angle in and of itself,
But they didn't have the option too because of the

(56:32):
contracts that WCW and Ted Turner had signed with those guys.
So I think with the cards that they were dealt
at that time, they did the best that they could. Yes,
in hindsight. Hindsight is twenty twenty, they could have maybe
tweeked a few things and done things better, or used
different wrestlers in certain spots, But at that time what
they did was probably, in my opinion, the best option

(56:55):
in the best storyline that they could have done. Because
had they not done it, everyone up until this day
would have been like, oh, well, they bought WCW, wanted
to do some type of invasion angle or one in
WCW the name and of itself and the brand and
ECW because they were part of the alliance, Why weren't
they a factor? Why didn't they do something with it?
And I think people just don't hone in on the
fact that they didn't have the option to, because of

(57:18):
course Vince McMahon would have done whatever he could to
make that storyline bigger than life in and of itself,
but with the cars that he had, I personally think
he did he did the best that he could.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Yeah, I think that's a fair statement. And like you said,
if they could have brought those those individuals in, why
the hell wouldn't they have. They're the biggest names in
wrestling ever and so why wouldn't they have. So it
just I think the timing of it was just unfortunate.
And if they couldn't get them out of the contracts,
or if WWF didn't buy them out of the contracts,

(57:51):
whatever the situation may be, it's just unfortunate that there
was a big delay in the invasion to the bigger
stars coming through with the whole nWo and Goldberg coming
on later and Sting much much, much much later in
twenty fifteen or sixteen, So you know, we all eventually
did get those guys. It just wasn't at the time

(58:12):
that it could have been at the hottest and at
its peak and really make things explode again. But I
didn't hate it. Some people totally crap all over this too,
and I don't understand why I liked it could have
been better. Sure, everything can be better, but I think
that when you when you listen to some of the
wrestlers and former management announcers talk about it, they said that,

(58:33):
you know, well things got really watered down. They wouldn't
have done that where they, for example, bringing in WCW
referees for WCW matches and WCW announcers for the WCW
matches with God, I mean, it got very convoluted, and
having to bring in their own teams for the UH
for their particular matches. It just got a little convoluted,

(58:55):
and it's like, well, why do you have to do
that when WWF is the programming year on why can't
I mean, it just got very confusing. And you have
Nick Patrick, who actually loved Nick Patrick, who is a
WCW referee, he ends up being a crooked referee, and
it got a little bit convoluted from that perspective for sure.
So all right, let's move on to your number two.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
What is it?

Speaker 4 (59:18):
So my number two was the creation of WCW Nitro
in and of itself. I think without the creation of Nitro,
none of this would have happened. Everything that we've discussed
going as at this point would have even happened. I
think Eric Bischoff was a monumental figure in person and

(59:40):
character into the Attitude era and wrestling going forward as
it is today. I think Nitro really sparked everything because
without Nitro, we wouldn't have had a whole coding heel turn.
We wouldn't have had Haul and Nash jumping ship from
wwe have to go to WCW. And I think without
Nitro being what it was and putting down that foundation,

(01:00:04):
we wouldn't have had we Maybe some people say we
wouldn't even have wrestling as it is today. So I
think WTW just being created and going head to head
and taking that gumption and just taking that that leap
of faith and even presenting the slightest form of competition
in the beginning to WWF. We wouldn't have had the

(01:00:24):
attitude to error. We wouldn't. I would be kind of
curious to see what wrestling would be as it is today,
because I don't think without Nitro that we would have
uh maybe we wouldn't even have a WWE, or at
least as it is that we know it. So I
think Nitro just gave the platform for everyone. Hogan turning,
heel haul and Nash jumping Ship, the Attitude era, the

(01:00:46):
Montreal Screwjob, everything. I think without Nitro, none of those
other factors would have even existed. So that was my
number two.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
That's a yeah that there's no argument there that Nitro,
as you know, you know, successful as it was, was
the best thing that ever happened to WWF. Nitro forced
Vince McMahon to push the creative envelope to make things better,
put the pressure on themselves because they had true competition,

(01:01:17):
not pretend competition, but true competition with an owner that
had deep pockets and a will to win. And Ted
Turner kicked Vince McMahon's ass for eighty six weeks and
proved that he did. And obviously they made some big
mistakes in their seven year tenure and they, you know,

(01:01:37):
had some massive, massive managerial problems in WCW up and
down the line. Obviously with Eric Bischoff taking over, he
had admitted and I've listened to his show as well,
that Thunder was the death nail for the WCW brand

(01:01:58):
because it ended up watering down everything that they had
done through the week. It's two more hours hours of
television that they have to run. They were stretching their
crew super thin. So it was just to Eric Bischoff's point,
Thunder WCW Thunder was the death nail in WCW's life,
and I totally understand that. But to your point, Nitro

(01:02:21):
was beyond successful and it had deep pockets and it
was the best thing that had happened to WWF at
the time. And I did not watch the first episode
of Nitro. I know that Lex Luber made his debut
at the time, who had jumped ship from Vince McMahon's company.
It was a significant moment in history and it provided

(01:02:42):
a true platform for guys to go work and they
were successful for seven years. So you know, obviously they
ended up being bought out, but yeah, totally agree with
you with your selection here.

Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
Yeah, And I think without WCW and Nitro specifically Nitro,
I think that anything would have forced Vince McMann or
the WWF to change the landscape of their company. I
think maybe over time eventually they would have changed some
things up because there's only so much you could do
with like gimmick characters. But I don't think they would

(01:03:15):
have had the sense of urgency to take a look
at their product, their characters, who their champion is, the
storylines and everything in a hole and really just revamp everything.
I don't think they would have had that spark, the
sense of urgency anything. I just think that Nitro really
shook the wrestling genre in and of itself to occore.

(01:03:37):
And I think Eric Bischoff kind of in my opinion
like Paul him and maybe doesn't get enough credit that
he deserves because without n WWF at the time WWE
now they may have just stayed the course and just
maybe played it safe and Okay, we're making profit here.
We really you know, everyone likes what we're doing for

(01:03:57):
the most part. You know, it is what it is.
But I think that I really pushed WWF and Vince
McMahon to look at their product and just take it
to the next level and just go to the full
extreme that they could have and made it this global
brand that we know of now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
No, absolutely, you know whether or not you like WCW,
didn't or did not like their product, it doesn't matter.
The fact is that whenever you have a true competition,
it always forces you to raise your game. I don't
care whether you're in the wrestling business, whether you're in
an Olympics sport, even at your work, when you see

(01:04:33):
somebody doing a better job than you, most of the time,
it makes you feel like you have to raise your game.
I mean that's true on a micro or macro scale.
And my analogy of that means that could AW I mean,
could they be the next WCW two WWE. Maybe they

(01:04:55):
haven't had a single show yet, and I know this
is not about AEW, but I'm thinking about that analogy,
and I'm thinking, could this very well be the next
WCW competition to WWE. I mean, you have very similar
workings here. You have an owner that has very deep pockets,
and that's super important when you're bringing in any wrestling

(01:05:16):
company to make it feel like it's true competition, you
have to have deep pockets. That's a massive barrier to entry.
So check there. You have a hell of a talent roster,
and it's not just filled with XWWE handoffs or rejection.
It is their true talent. They're bringing in talent that
is not just the people at WW Let go, it's

(01:05:38):
not TNA they are. I think A going to be
a formidable opponent for WWE. I don't think they'll ever
overtake WWE. I think that's right now, kind of a
foolish thing to say, but it could very well be
a very similar path than AW takes to WWE.

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):
For sure, for sure, And I hear a lot of
people commenting on ad AEW is going to run w
out of business and all that stuff, and I, of
course we don't know for sure, but I don't my
personal opinion, I don't think that's even the mindset behind
like an AW company or an RH or any other
company since WCW up until today. I think any type

(01:06:20):
of competition for any company in the grand scheme of
all sports is what you need, and I think that
WCW is what first sparked and proved it could be
successful WCWB WWE for eighty three weeks or however many
weeks it was, and that proved that it can be done.
So I think competition in and of itself is just

(01:06:40):
going to be best and what we all should hope
for being wrestling fans going forward in the future.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
Exactly. And people always like to, you know, like, oh,
wouldn't you want to see this company out of business?
Why I was as many wrestling companies as possible. I
don't want to just be WWE's presentation of what professional
wrestling is. I mean, I've seen it. I've watched their
presentation and ideology of these rise of organizations that are

(01:07:08):
particularly AEW that are going to be I don't even
want to say competing with ww because I don't think
that should be their goal or focus at all, But
I'll just say it because I don't have a better phrase.
These companies that are going to be competing with WWE,
particularly AW. I don't think there's a better time in
the world to have these companies emerge because they recognize
the fault and the weaknesses of the large WWE landscape

(01:07:33):
and what the fans are complaining about. They have an
opportunity to start fresh, they have deep pockets, they have
a talent roster that again is extremely formidable, and they
are going to apparently being allowing these talents to just
speak their minds within reason and just have the creative

(01:07:55):
freedom to do so. And again, I don't think, as
you just said, this is not a bad thing that
you have wrestling companies wanting to get into the game.

Speaker 4 (01:08:06):
Here.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
I want as many as possible in the game, because
not only does that provide more competition, but it provides
more opportunities for work for these guys as human beings
to support their families. I mean, I you know that's
a that's an element too. I don't want to see
any company that's wrestling related go out of business because
if you're a true love, if you're a true fan

(01:08:30):
of professional wrestling and you love the product, you should
never root for any organization wrestling related to go out
of business because that's never good for the market as
a whole. And so there, I think I've made my point.
So any any other final thoughts on this actually before
we get to our number.

Speaker 4 (01:08:49):
One No, No, I think we've covered it all. So
what's your number one? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
Okay, my number one, and I feel like you're gonna
go ah, that's mine too. The Montreal Screwjob. Montreal Screwjob
is number one for me. That changed the wrestling industry forever.
And the reason is, I think trifold if you will,
We got the mister McMahon character out of the Montreal Screwjob.

(01:09:19):
One of the hottest, if not the biggest heel in
WWF history was mister McMahon. To this day even he
can still be that guy. So we got mister McMahon,
which obviously was the foil for Stone Cold Steve Boston
in the biggest money drawing rivalry of in the history
of the company. To this day still is the biggest

(01:09:42):
money drawing rivalry in history. So we got mister McMahon.
It also exposed the business, which this is where we're
talking about the change of the industry here. It exposed
the business in a way that it hadn't previously had
been done. Yes, we had the curtain Call the year before.
We know that. We know what happened with the curtain call,
with with with Kevin Nash, Shawn Michael's Triple h and

(01:10:06):
Scott Hall in the middle of the ring in Madison
Square Guarden hugging each other even though they were not
all supposed to be friends, which a lot of older
guys on the roster management didn't like it, but apparently
was approved by Vince McMahon. But anyway, we got that
before in a non televised event, and now we get
the Montreal screwjob that is infamous in wrestling lore. Whether

(01:10:29):
you're doesn't matter what brand you were watching, you know
what the Montreal screwjob was about. Brett Hart did not
want to relinquish that w F championship to Shawn Michaels
before he was leaving, and they obviously did not agree
when they went out to the to the ring and
you had Shawn Michaels in on it applies to sharpshooter.

(01:10:51):
Vince McMahon comes out, calls for the bell after Michael's
put Brett in the sharpshooter, and then we get a
very very pissed off Brett Hart who spits in the
face of Vince McMahon, spells out WCW with his hands
and appears on WCW television shortly thereafter. And the not

(01:11:13):
only that, we had that whole event. Brett Hart actually
punched Vince McMahon in the face after that whole event,
and he had a bruise just below his eye for
weeks after that. Because I mean, that's well documented and
it's all been to discussed. But Vince McMahon comes on
and has an interview with Jim Ross in the weeks
after that saying that Brett screwed Brett. I mean, that's

(01:11:35):
another extremely you know, recognizable phrase that came out of
all of this, and it just exposed the business and
pulled back the curtain in a way that had not
been done to this level before. And since that time,
you can really point to that moment and say, yeah,
like when did k fabe start to die and you

(01:11:57):
could say the Montreal nineteen ninety seven than was that moment.
You could make an argument for that. So that's my
number one. And also before I toss it to you,
it heated up the WWFW WCW rivalry at the time.
I mean, we just covered it in length there, but

(01:12:17):
it added to that rivalry because you had Brett Hart
going to WCW after this was over and you had
to have Vince McMahon explain what happened. Brett Hart shows
up on Nitro, which brings some viewers in to see
what he's gonna do. Is he gonna address this situation?
Who's he gonna feud with? What's gonna happen? So it

(01:12:38):
heated up that rivalry, which just sparked both fan bases
and so it was just a moment that is still
surreal to this day. I mean, we don't have anything
to this day, twenty two years later that you could
say has rivaled that moment and exposed the business to
that level where Vince McMahon comes out in a sh

(01:13:00):
shoot and calls for the bell because he wants to
make sure that the belt stays in WWF and Brett
is not, you know, going to be bringing it to WCW.
It just exposed the business. We got Vince McMahon, It
heated the rivalry between the company and fan bases, and uh,

(01:13:20):
it was just it was a crazy moment for any
wrestling fan.

Speaker 4 (01:13:25):
One hundred percent, one hundred percent, And I totally agree
with you. I think without the Montreal Screwjob, a lot
of of what wrestling we know of as today wouldn't
be what it is without that moment. And it's so
crazy to think of that one moment changing wrestling in
and of itself, but it really was monumental because I
remember Brett Hard doing, like you said, the WCW in

(01:13:47):
the air, and I just remember thinking, like, man, like
Brett's what is he? Why is he doing that? Like
why would he do that on a WWF show like that?
Because to me, I was I think like maybe five
or six at the time, so of course I didn't
really know what was going on, so I was like
w c W and I remember writing it down and thinking, wow,
like why is he doing that? Like you shouldn't be
doing that? Like it was just mind blowing to me.

(01:14:09):
And like you said, that did spark the mister mcmon character.
And who knows if Stuncle Cee Boston would have been
what we know of him as being today. Who knows
if he would have been that that groundbreaking figure and
character without the mister McMahon character, because mister McMahon, any
any two people need a good a pointed to brace

(01:14:30):
off of and to play off of. And I don't
I don't think that without the mister m mister McMahon
character in and of itself, I don't think he stone
cold would have been what he was without that character
to play off of. So I think that definitely did
spark the change in just the ground swell that WWF
experienced at that time without the whole Montreal screwjob taking place.

(01:14:53):
So I totally agree with you there, but that was
not my my number one pick.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
Well, then let's not keep listeners awaiting any longer. What
is your number one pick for the wrestling moment that
changed the industry forever?

Speaker 4 (01:15:09):
So I'm sorry, this is probably gonna be a letdown
for a lot of people, but there's a lot of
different avenues that branched off of this, so mine I am. Well.
I like to think that I'm a wrestling historian. I
love the business behind the TV show more so than
what we see on TV. I'm just infatuated with what

(01:15:30):
the business is and everything that goes on behind the scenes.
So I took it way way way back and took
it to the point where Vince McMahon bought the company,
the WWWF, from his father and took it national, because
I feel if he didn't buy the company from his father,
we wouldn't have had a WrestleMania one. And I think

(01:15:51):
the first WrestleMania really did lay a foundation and just
give a groundswell to wrestling as an industry and take
it to unbelievable amounts that it is now. Because WrestleMania
is like the super Bowl, and a lot of people,
a lot of for instance, my coworkers, they don't a

(01:16:13):
lot of them don't really care about wrestling and like, oh,
that's fake or whatever, and like they're not really hitting
each other whatever. But they know of WrestleMania, they know
what WrestleMania is. They know a whole cogain. So I
don't think if Vince took Range from the company, I
don't think we would have wrestling as it is today.
I think him actually buying that company from his father

(01:16:34):
gave the opportunity for everything that we know today. I
think without him buying that, we wouln't have Wressellmania. We
wouldn't have wrestling on TV, we wouldn't have a whole Coke,
and we wouldn't have a Monday Night Raw, we wouldn't
have SmackDown, we wouldn't have the company that we all love.
Of course, there's a lot of faults and we can
nitpick and everything like that, but Vince McMahon really gave

(01:16:54):
us the opportunity to do that, to have us speak
on a podcast today and just have us love the
company for what it is in and of itself. So
I think Vince McMahon for all his faults. Everyone has
faults out there, but a lot of he gets a
lot of he and a lot of negative remarks and

(01:17:15):
things like that. But I think him buying the company,
taking it national, buying out all the other territories, which
back in the day was unheard of, and he was
vilified for it, and he was I think that may
have been like the start of the heel vincement Man character,
not on TV, but behind the scenes. That that gave
him the spark and the motivation and the confidence to
put on a WrestleMania one, to get to wrestle Mania three,

(01:17:36):
to bring in a whole Cochin and have Hull cogin
versus Andrea the Giant for the championship, and to have
that monumental moment that we still see replays of today,
where Hull Cochin body slams Andre the Giant. I don't
think any of that would have been possible without Vince
McMahon taking full reign of the wrestling industry in and
of itself, saying hey, thinking probably to himself, Hey, I'm

(01:17:57):
gonna be a bad guy to a lot of these people. Poh,
I'm going to do things that a lot of people
aren't going to be happy with, and just embracing all
of that, and building wrestling to what it is today
and just giving us this platform and this outlet to
just fully disregard everything else that's going on in our
everyday life and just saying, hey, yeah, Monday Night Raw,

(01:18:20):
it's three hours now, shouldn't be three hours whatever. But
it gives you that escape from reality, and it gives
you that opportunity to just disengage from your everyday life
and just be invulge into something else. And I think
without him taking that leap of faith way way way
back in the day and being confident in himself in

(01:18:42):
taking ownership of the company and building and risking everything
that he had for that first wrestle Mania and it
being as successful as it was to move on to
WrestleMania thirty five and for whoever knows how long that
we're gonna be able to enjoy WrestleMania and wrestling in
and of itself for the years to come. So I

(01:19:02):
think Vince buying the company from his father really changed
wrestling as we know because if he had it, who
knows what if we would even have wrestling today as
we know it. And I think him doing that really
proponed everything else. To have a Monday Night War, to
have a stone cold See Boston, a Hulk, Cogan, the Rock,
and all of the characters that we love to this day.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
I did not expect that one, but no, I think that,
and I don't think anybody probably had that on the list.
You know, there's so many other moments out there. I
was thinking, Oh, she's gonna pick Andre the Giants being
slammed by hel Cogan or something, and that is something
I didn't think of. And that's why we have these lists,
because it's those moments that you don't think of necessarily

(01:19:47):
and that are hidden behind the scenes, and especially for
something that happened so long ago, that is a ripple
effect into twenty nineteen. I don't think. I think the
answer to your question is is no, we would not
have the same professional rests sling that we have today
had it not been for Vince McMahon. Regardless of whether
you hate or love the product right now, and it's
definitely got its faults. We wouldn't have been blessed with

(01:20:09):
all of those moments that were iconic throughout the seventies, eighties,
and nineties without Vince McMahon having the vision to take
it from a regional to a global phenomenon. I mean,
that's just the facts. I mean, you have somebody who
had the vision to take this global that nobody else
had the balls to do, and that's Vince McMahon. And

(01:20:30):
you know, you have a lot of people who hate,
as you just said, villify Vince McMahon because he did that,
and the territories, a lot of them dried up because
of the fact they couldn't compete with Vince McMahon, who
had put himself on cable television, which was not cheap
to do, and put a product out there that's different
and he was able to. Vince McMahon was able to
adapt and change to the times and take advantage of

(01:20:52):
the technology and the mediums and platforms that he could,
while the other territories were still kind of stuck in
the past and not willing to change, which I think
the argument could be that Vince McMahon didn't kill the territories.
The territories killed the territories. And if they were able
to do and take the same steps that Vince McMahon
had taken, they may have survived a little bit longer,

(01:21:14):
or maybe even thrived. Who knows. But Vince is the
only one with the pockets, the guts and the vision
to do it and take it global, and he was
extremely successful in doing it. Regardless, as you said, of
the faults that he has in his personality, which are many,
he was a genius, an evil genius, as he's been described.

(01:21:36):
He took it from regional to global and was beyond successful,
more than anybody has ever been in this industry. Vince
McMahon is inarguably the single most successful person in the
rastlin business. And there's absolutely nothing that anybody could argue
against that. It's not even an arguable point. So that's

(01:22:00):
a really good pick because it's it's almost a pick
that is unfair because it's it's it's one that's I
think the ultimate, right, I mean, it's the ultimate one
that changed the industry forever. And you obviously have, as
you said, all these television moments, but behind the scenes
had Vince mcbannatt done this, we wouldn't be talking right now.

(01:22:22):
We wouldn't even know what Monday Night Raw is, we
wouldn't know what SmackDown is, We wouldn't know what Stone Cold, Hulk,
Hogan or The Rock even meant. I really do believe that,
So that is that's a really good number one pick.

Speaker 4 (01:22:35):
Yeah, yeah, well, well think I know it's probably not
one of the most interesting or the most intriguing to
wrestling fans today in today's age. But to me, when
I was sitting down and going through my list and
just thinking, like for whatever reason, and for me, I
just the first thing I thought of was, Okay, well
where was wrestling back in the day, and how did
you even get to this point where I can talk

(01:22:57):
to you, I can meet fellow wrestling fans and established
very good friendships off of this this product where it's
it's quote unquote scripted, because for everyone knows that wrestling
I don't even I don't like using the word fake.
It's scripted. Everyone knows that, especially nowadays with the Internet
and everything like that. But for me, when I sat

(01:23:17):
down to make my list, I was like, well, man, like,
how did we even get to this point. So I
did some research and went back to the very beginning
and just thinking had Vince McMahon not taking taken the
the option and maybe even just the I don't even
know how to say it, but just the risk I

(01:23:37):
guess in making that first WrestleMania, what would have happened?
Because if we didn't have WrestleMania, we wouldn't have had
all the superstars and the characters and the personalities that
we have today. And had he not taken that chance,
who knows where wrestling would be. We may not even
have a wrestling on TV or be able to talk
about wrestling. And I know that wrestling for me personally

(01:23:59):
has grown me so many different friendships and just helped
me through a lot of times in my personal life.
So I think that's where I just when I sat
down to think, Man, what is my top five? I
did some research, watched some DVDs, of course, because I
just love the documentary aspect behind all all of wrestling,
and I just really zoned into what Vince McMahon did

(01:24:20):
in the eighties and the early nineties, and he revamped
the whole industry that they knew of at the time,
and created what we know of to this day. So
that that's why I chose that as my number one.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
I can't argue with it, and and I love that
as fellow wrestling fans, everybody knows that you you know,
you have friends or family that rip on you for
being wrestling fans. All I mean, it's just it goes,
it's comes to the territory. It's synonymous with being a
wrestling fan. Oh, you like that stuff. And I just say,
you know what, like you know, oh, it's scripted, as
you just said, it's fake.

Speaker 4 (01:24:51):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
I don't say the word fake either, because it's I
feel like it's insulting to the women. It just feels
wrong to say. And so it is scripted. But you
know what else is scripted? Game of Thrones, And that's
exactly And I'm going to be indulged and engaged in
that in about thirty five minutes, and I'm going to
be just just lost in the world of wester Ros

(01:25:13):
and I'm going to not care about my life for
an hour and a half while I watch it. And
I think that the fifteen million people are going to
join me doing that. And you don't hear people say, oh,
you like that Game of Throne stuff. Like, for whatever reason,
wrestling has this bad rap that doesn't come along with
any other scripted form of entertainment movies, TV shows. Wrestling

(01:25:35):
is its own animal because it has these these notions
that are just attached to it, that ad it's fake.
Oh these guys are just you know, jumping around and
their underwear. You know that's all fake, right, Well yeah,
well first, yeah, no kidding, it's entertainment. Like we know
that what we're watching is simulated combat, you know, So
this argument with wrestling gets a bad rap when you

(01:25:57):
could make the same argument against any other TV show
in the history of TV and movies. So it just
comes with the territory. But that is a hell of
a pick. I'm really I'm surprised, but I like it
because it's like it's the origins of what professional wrestling
is now, regardless of yeah, it's a much different product now.

(01:26:19):
But had it not been for those seeds being planted
in Vince McMahon's vision, we would not be here today.
So any closing comments that you have.

Speaker 4 (01:26:32):
I don't think so. I guess the only thing I
could say, you know, maybe going a little bit off topic, here,
but with like the ratings and everything like that, and
I'll listen to your previous podcast about the ratings. It
just it kind of bums me out, especially with and
I guess it's a combination of everything, with social media
and the internet being what it is, I think wrestling

(01:26:54):
really gets a bad rap and of course is the
product what I would maybe prefer on percent of the time. No,
but for whatever reason, wrestling fans and other podcasts, not you,
other podcasts, they just zone in all, well, the show
was horrible because the ratings are whatever it is now,
but we still tune in, we still are emotionally invested,

(01:27:15):
and I think sometimes we just forget to enjoy wrestling
for what it is. It's our escape from reality. It's
the longest episode of whatever their their tagline is show
on TV and maybe not always zone in on the
negative aspects of it, but just remember why you love
wrestling for what it is, Because wrestling is the escape

(01:27:36):
from reality for me personally, for my everyday life. Like
I know, yes, the three hour raw is sometimes you know,
like oh man, I have to watch from me to
eleven sometimes, you know, even sometimes after the first segment,
I'm like I still have another two and a half hours,
but we just need to remember to appreciate wrestling and
appreciate why you got into wrestling in the beginning and

(01:27:58):
from all the characters, and just maybe not be so
negative on it and just look at the positives too,
Like a lot of people would crap on the Brae
why angle in his firefly funhouse and all that stuff.
And I'm gonna admit at first, when I saw that
first vignette, I was like, gosh, what is this? Like
why is why are they doing this with breat But
I've really grown and after I watched it two or

(01:28:19):
three times after, I was like, man, like they're revitalizing
his character. So wrestling is a story. And yes we
may not like it one week or two weeks, so
the ratings may be down, but don't don't hate on it.
Like for me, for instance, like some of my favorite
sports teams aren't really the best going forward through the
whole season and everything, but just remember why you love

(01:28:40):
that sports team. And for me, that's what I do
with wrestling, Like, yeah, this week's episode suck, you know whatever,
It's not what I would have done or I would
have done this, this and this and it's easy for
us to comment on it, but just remember why you
fell in love with the wrestling industry in and of itself,
So just my personality.

Speaker 2 (01:28:56):
I think that's something that needs to be reiterated across
the b for all fans, me included. There are times,
I mean, you sometimes just gravitate to the things you
don't like. I don't know if that's human nature or
the society we're in or whatever that we always just
kind of gravitate towards the critiques and things like oh
that sucks, this is this is awful? What are they doing?
And you know you have to just be mindful of
that and say, hey, like, well, why are you watching

(01:29:18):
this if you hate it so much? Yet we keep
coming back. We keep coming back week after week. And
there are shows out there that just rip WWE for
everything up and down all the time. And I try
to be mindful of the things and bring in things
that I like about the show every week and not
just slam them for stuff that's just blatantly awful. But

(01:29:38):
the flip side of that is a lot of times
ww is deserving of the critiques they get. I mean,
they're a professionally run organization that has these you know,
high paid writers that are just coming up with just garbage.
And there are times and they are deserving of the
critiques and criticism at times, but like you said, we
all were drawn to wrestling for a Generally, if you're

(01:30:01):
a wrestling fan, you stay a wrestling fan. That's why
wrestling fans are some of the most loyal fans of
any form of entertainment ever. And that's why we have
to remind ourselves when we have terrible writing, and you
have terrible presentations of what professional wrestling is in Vince
McMahon's eyes on a weekly basis, or you have segments

(01:30:23):
that are eye rolling or disengaging or childish or whatever,
you have to just remind yourself like this, this is
my escape from reality, as you said, and you as
disengaging as and it may be at times where you
were just you know, completely disconnected because of the garbage
they put out. You have to just force your brain

(01:30:44):
to look at the things that are are what continues
to draw you there every week. And it shouldn't be
a negative, negative reason to just say I'm gonna watch
it so I can just you know, create my own
podcasts and just kill every week. It should be, and
I think most fans are They watch it because they

(01:31:06):
like the wrestling inside of the ring. They like the stories.
Any good form of entertainment is a story. They tell
them their stories inside of a ring. Some stories are
told outside of the ring, and via promo, whatever the
vehicle you're using to tell that story, you want to
get lost, How do you get lost? You get engaged.
And I think that that is some of the critiques

(01:31:28):
ww has right now is they're not engaging, They're not believable.
And yeah, no question, that happens, and it happens a lot.
And I'll admit that that WWE has a just an
achilles heel when it comes to being something in a
form of entertainment that consistently engages me. It kind of
takes me in and out, in and out, in and out,

(01:31:48):
in and out, and I have to remind myself that, like, hey,
I may not like this, but I'm here because I
love this product and I don't care what WWE does.
I will always be a fan for life. I mean,
that's just the way it is.

Speaker 4 (01:32:02):
Has said it better myself.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
All right, Well, on that note, on the high note,
because I'll end on a high note, Ashley, before you
head out here, let everyone know how to get a
hold of you on Twitter.

Speaker 4 (01:32:14):
All right, So my Twitter handle is as h M
A N N S so you can follow me there.
I normally just reach twheet a lot of things, not
really anything that groundbreaking, but yeah, I'd love to talk
wrestling with anyone, especially you. This is always very entertaining
for me and just very kind of therapeutic sometimes when
we talk about wrestling, whatever's going on in the wrestling world.

(01:32:37):
But yeah, feel free to follow me there. I'll talk
wrestling with you, talk whatever. So yeah, feel free to
hit me up now.

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
And that is the truth. It's not just a plug.
She will talk wrestling with you, so careful I will
and no, but totally understand. It is a therapeutic session
for me too, because there are not a lot of
people I can intelligently discuss wrestling with. It's you know,
at least in my day to day it's hard. My
wife is not a wrestling fan. She knows like who

(01:33:04):
The Rock is. She likes The Rock because he's sexy.
I guess, I don't know, you know, she likes the
big name people. She'll come around when WrestleMania rolls around,
so I don't have a lot of day to day
interaction with people that I can discuss wrestling intelligently with,
so totally understand that this is the therapeutic session for me.
I feel like I'm on you know, I'm laying on

(01:33:25):
a couch and I have you know, my psychologists sitting
there with a pad of paper, and I'm able to
just vent about wrestling. So Ashley, as always, it's been
an awesome time and we will definitely be doing this again.

Speaker 4 (01:33:37):
Sounds great. Thank you so much for having me. I
appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:39):
Yeah, no problem, take care you too.

Speaker 3 (01:33:43):
Five hour Energy helps you get through your crazy on
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hour Energy helps you get through your crazy on the
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transport you to a tropical paradise. Try them both, then
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Speaker 1 (01:34:44):
Thanks for listening to the WWE podcast. Don't forget to
subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you don't miss
a show, or head to WWE podcast dot com and
for all of these shows add free head over to
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(01:35:05):
you next time.

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