WWE Podcast Retro 2020: Updated Royal Rumble Thoughts, Sheamus a Top Heel? Major Return in the Women's Rumble?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, So we've got a great show coming up
for you today. It's only a week until the Royal Rumble.
I've got a co host with me, Anthony DeMarco, to
cover everything that's been going on in the lead up
to the Royal Rumble next Sunday night. And boy do
we have a lot to cover, including SmackDown, what happened
on Raw, what could happen at the Royal Rumble is

(00:20):
things begin to come into focus, and of course what
that can mean for WrestleMania. So a ton of content
that we cover. All as always a great conversation, so
you're gonna want to stay tuned for that, and we're
gonna get that all started right after a word from
our sponsor and then right into the show. Guys, stay
right here. You're not gonna want to miss this one.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome to the WWE Podcast, your place for the most
passionate wrestling analysis on the web.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Just turn Roman Heel. What is WWE waiting for? Another
wrestling podcast?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Put you to sleep? You can count on the WWE
Podcast to get you engaged and asking.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
For I've been watching wrestling for over twenty years and
that was one of the best matches I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
This is unlike any other wrestling analysis. So without any
further delay, let's get this show started right now.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Hey guys, welcome to the WWE Podcast. It is Sunday,
January nineteenth, twenty twenty. Thank you so much for joining me,
and we got a great show for you. As I
alluded to in the very open here, a great conversation
with Anthony as we talked about everything in this week,
everything this week in WWE, including in depth rumble thoughts,
and gave our picks. I know it's not our prediction show,

(01:37):
but sometimes you just got to go with the flow.
And I don't think our picks are going to surprise anybody,
but we gave those and looked forward to WrestleMania and beyond,
including questions like what are they going to do with
Baron Corbin, what are they going to do with Bray Wyatt,
with Roman Rains, who could face brock Lesser at WrestleMania.

(02:00):
Covered so many different questions and really dove in deep
to a lot of topics, including Seamus and where he
could be positioned on SmackDown post WrestleMania and at WrestleMania.
So a lot of great content, a lot of potential.
The storylines and ideas and theories and conspiracy theories and
all that kind of stuff. All that great stuff that

(02:21):
we love doing as wrestling fans we covered here, and
we even touch on the women's vision of course, and
what that could mean for the Rumble and impossible major,
major return at the Rumble that's been rumored that him
and I both agree on. So really, we covered everything
that we deemed relevant. And yes, we didn't get to

(02:42):
every little nuance that's happening in WWE. If you guys
want a five hour, six hour podcast, we could, but
it's a great conversation and I hope you enjoy it,
and we're going to get to it, of course, in
just a moment here. But first, if you guys haven't
joined us before, thank you so much giving us a try.
As we know, there are many, many, many other shows

(03:04):
out there. It seems as if you don't have a podcast,
you're not relevant, right. Podcasts seem to be the new
dot com era. Podcasts are easy to get into but
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(03:25):
to improve over the next year or so. I know
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check out Patreon, my Patreon feed at patreon dot com
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(03:47):
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thank you so much for joining the show, and I

(04:08):
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(04:31):
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(04:54):
and I'd really encourage you to do that. But if not,
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And if you guys just want to bitch about the show, hey,
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(05:14):
still reviewing the show. So I'd prefer you give positive feedback.
But you know what, if you like something, I encourage
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(05:35):
go as you please listening to this show and any
other show for that matter. So I am open to
all of those things. And email me at realwwe Podcasts
at gmail dot com or hit me up on Twitter
at the real WWEP or the WWE podcast on Twitter. Okay, well, guys,
with all of that being said, I have a great

(05:55):
conversation with Anthony. It ran well over an hour hour
and a half, right. We just continue to and talk
and talk, and that's because we love wrestling, great chemistry
and a good guy. So I hope you enjoy the
conversation and a big, big, big next week coming up
this week will be your typical review shows on the

(06:16):
schedule of Tuesday Raw Wednesday Wrestling Nostalgia, which I'm doing
a three part series on the Rock Versus Stone Cold
Steve Austin from Musselmania fifteen seventeen and nineteen, So it's
gonna span over three weeks and I'll do fifteen seventeen
and nineteen in that order. And Thursday and Friday will
be an xtaew. Saturday will be my Prediction show with

(06:38):
none other, of course than Ashley, so she will be
returning to the show on Saturday as we get ready
for the Rumble and give our official final predictions for
the Royal Rumble event. And then of course Sunday will
be the Royal Rumble itself and I'll be tweeting throughout
the show. I'll be actually watching that show live and
then huge, huge show coming Monday and or Tuesday where

(07:03):
I'm gonna bring the entire panel of co hosts together.
So Ashley, Anthony and Mary are going to join me
early next week for a massive review show for The
Rumble where you'll get all of our views on what
the Rumble provided, are good, are bad? Our rants, everything
will be there and what's proven and probably will be

(07:25):
what's proving to be a long duration show, probably hour
and a half two hours. I mean this thing, I
have a feeling with all of our opinions and everything else,
it's gonna be a blast. So I'm really excited to
bring on the entire cast of our co hosts. I
know we have our hosts of the show and we'll
be doing something special with them down the line, but
our co hosts I'm gonna want to bring on and

(07:47):
we're gonna discuss all of the Royal Rumble fallout. So
that's gonna be just crazy. So I can't wait for that.
So that'll be happening in early next week, all right, guys,
So I'm gonna take a quick break, and then on
the other side, it's all Royal Rumble talk and current
wwe talk, So stay right here and we'll be right back.

(08:09):
Following this, we'll be right into the conversation with Anthony.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Hello, friends, I'm Hunter Kuto, host of Weekly Spooky, the
podcast that brings you just a little bit of fear
every single week with narrated scary stories and creepy ambience
to boot that helps you keep the Halloween spirit alive
fifty two weeks out of the year. So tune into
Weekly Spooky at Weeklyspooky dot com or anywhere you listen
to podcasts, and please don't forget listen in the dark.

(08:40):
It's more fun that way.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Alrighty, Welcome to the Royal Rumble week, well, the week
before the Rumble, if you will. One week from tonight,
we will all be enjoying the countdown from ten and
counting in unison to see who comes out next. I'm
excited for this because it's my favorite pay per view
of the year, it seems to be all of my
co hosts favorite pay per review of the year, and
I'm thinking the majority of my listeners have been chiming

(09:08):
in as well and saying that they love this pay
per view even more than WrestleMania do to its marathon
type of format. So this is exciting. I'm looking forward
to it. Anthony DeMarco, Welcome back to the show. Are
you excited for the Rumble week?

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (09:23):
Yeah, so excited.

Speaker 5 (09:24):
I actually watched a Row Rumble two thousand and one today,
which was Steve Austin's third Row Rumble victory.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
So I'm getting hiped for riping.

Speaker 5 (09:33):
Yeah, exactly, watching some nostalgic matches and yeah, I'm really
hyped for the Rumble.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Oh man, that's so funny you bring that up. I
was thinking about how awesome that rumble is because I
remember that it was. It came down to Cane and
Stone Cold Steve Auston and he ended up having to
give him like three chair shots before he could knock
him over the rope. So yeah, man, that was a
badass pay per view, a badass ending that led to

(10:00):
this Stone Cold versus the Rocket seventeen so boh yeah, boy,
that gives me chills as well. So this is what
the Rumble's about. It's about you don't know who's coming
out next. It's an ingenious, brilliant format that was developed
and it is. It's great for returns, it's great for debuts.
It's great to set up rivalries that follow all the

(10:21):
way to WrestleMania in mini matches and stories within stories,
as we mentioned last week. So I'm pumped for this match.
And since we last talked, do you have any I'll
just ask you straight out, have you adjusted your thinking
to who could win this match? Or is it pretty
much in line with what you've been thinking all along?

Speaker 5 (10:42):
Well, to be frank the short answers, it hasn't changed
my thinking. I think that it's going to be Roman Reigns.
I think he's on a collision course with The Fiend.
For all the reasons I mentioned last week, they're not
being a big challenger other than him for the Fiend
beyond daniel'brien, how he's been booked so strongly as of late,
and just Vince mcmann's obsession to push him to the

(11:04):
top at all costs. But in saying that, I do
think that they are dropping more clues to maybe possibly
sway us in another direction. And I think one guy
that I've been in favor of as the favorite if
it were up to me, would be Drew mcinttire. I've
said it numerous times before that my like if I

(11:24):
could have a wish, it would be for him to
win the Rumble baby face turn and head against Brock
at Russell Mamnia, And I think they've just loosened up
his character a bit. You can see he's kind of
having more baby face antics, or at least more of
a funny helish character as opposed to just the stern
monster type. But given the fact that Brouck is in

(11:46):
the Rumble, I think that maybe they will have an
interaction in the match that leads to the main event
at Mania. But as far as who's going to win
the Row Rumble, I think it's still going to be
Roman reigns.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, I'm so short answer of mine is yes. The
short answer is that I think it's all roads lead
to Roman reigns, as they have for the last five years.
All roads lead to Roman reigns, and I just don't
see another way around it. And so again my consistently,
my consistent thinking is just that consistent that Roman reigns again.

(12:22):
If he wins the Rumble, that's not going to be
a surprise. He's an extremely heavy favorite among among betting
sites and fans like and so if Roman rains wins, okay,
he wins and we get the Fiend and Roman reigns.
If he doesn't, I still think it's the Fiend versus
Roman rains. We discussed that that there's two pass to
the main event of WrestleMania on each respective brand, but

(12:43):
that's an interesting concept, right. You have Drew McIntyre, a
guy that has been hot and cold, has been heal
since his return to WWE, and now is kind of
back to this tweener and sort of hinting towards baby face.
I would love to see a Drew McIntyre baby face turn.

(13:03):
My concern with him actually winning the rumble is that
they haven't shown any consistency they WWE in actually booking
this guy long term in terms of looking at it
from this could be a top guy. They've been very
hot and cold start stop. So I just I don't

(13:24):
have any faith that they would pull this off because
there hasn't been a whole lot of groundwork set for
it other than this past week showing a little bit
of a baby face and he gets the big win
in the triple threat against AJ and Randy. If this
was a you know, a month's build or a two
month or three month build and have more confidence that
they had this idea. But this kind of feels like

(13:46):
maybe a little bit too little, too late, And I
would love to see it, I just don't based on
the booking over the last five six months, I just
don't have the faith.

Speaker 5 (13:55):
Yeah, I'm with you, and it's you know, look at
the history of the Rumble, Like last year, everyone felt
it was coming for a good two to three months.
The year before that, Shinsky Nakamore was an under the
radar pick, but they have been quietly building him for
quite a while. Typically the Row Rumble winner is like
a big time payoff for a lot of moment to

(14:16):
gain in the months leading up to it. But to
your point, Drew McIntyre, it's not far off that you
saw him just beating on guys like Ryder and Hawkins,
like he's only been kind of pushed back into relevancy
since the calendar flipped to twenty twenty. That being said,
I still think he could end up against Brock. Like

(14:37):
you mentioned, there's two pass to the main event of
WrestleMania because of the brand split, and then you look
at Roman reigns and it's just like it's been almost
a calendar year now, of strong booking, put in a
position to succeed, put him against guys who are bona
fide heels and won't get the cheers over him. And
again like he was in what four consecutive main events

(14:58):
at WrestleMania but didn't wasn't there last year for his
health reasons, Like you know, Vince McMahon wants.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
To get him back there. The theme doesn't have.

Speaker 5 (15:06):
An opponent beyond Roman Rains after he's done with Daniel
Bryan and.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
Even other guys who I thought.

Speaker 5 (15:13):
Maybe could have been candidates for how they're being booked
to have cooled down a lot, like Kevin Owens was
a guy who I thought had a legitimate shot. And
while I do, for the most part, really love what's
going on on raw right now, and I think it's
the best the product has been and I could honestly
say probably close to ten years in this short sample size,

(15:33):
but I think Kevin Owens has really cooled off lately,
and that even more so backs up in my thought
that it will be Roman Reigns.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, I think we can talk till we're blue in
the face about other guys that deserve it more or
could be a better potential fit for the main event,
and it just makes no sense ultimately when you just
come back full circle and go, well, it kind of
has to be Roman. As you said, they have done
a lot of building over the last several months, all
the way back to summer of him being the guy

(16:03):
that has is in line for the main event of
WrestleMania against the fiend. I just don't see another way
around it. And we're there's just nobody else on SmackDown.
You said it, it's Daniel Bryan, who's kind of second
in command, and it's Roman Reigns who is the top guy,
and it's the top guy that should face the champion
at WrestleMania, And it just I don't see another way

(16:24):
around it. As much as we may come up with
these theories and ideas, I'm not saying it's impossible, but man,
there's a lot of work to get there. And I
don't think that WWE would say to themselves, well, man,
we've done a lot with Roman over the last you know,
seven months, what are we gonna do if we don't
put him in the main event?

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Right?

Speaker 1 (16:41):
So I just unfortunately I don't see a road out
of this. And as as far as Kevin Owens goes,
You're right, you know, he was hot for a while.
Shane McMahon did him a disservice. That whole program really
really hurt him, especially when it went, you know, two
months too long, and it just continued and continued, and
we're like, God, O, my enough, you know, stop the pain.

(17:02):
Get him to a real opponent. He truly turns face.
But I think that Kevin Owens on Raw is instead
of being that solo top guy, he's sharing the space
with guys like Samoa Joe now, and you know, it's
just not a focal point. There's not one guy at
the top of the food chain in line to face
brock Lessner, which is why he kind of feels like

(17:24):
he's cooled off because he's no longer the focus of
the show. He's sharing the spotlight.

Speaker 5 (17:29):
Yeah, and I'll reiterate that the product right now, for
the most part is top notch, especially Raw. There is
hard to find something right now about Monday Night Raw
that I dislike.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
SmackDown has been adequate.

Speaker 5 (17:42):
I don't think it's been bad, but you can see
it's not quite on the level of Raw.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
Still kind of find its way, but.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
Not to be negative, but you can really see the
trickle down effect the whole Fiend seth Rawlins angle has
had in a negative fashion because in my mind, it
was too early to put the belt on the Fiend.
And I was watching Raw this week.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
And I've always you know, I always kind.

Speaker 5 (18:08):
Of find it weird that like guys like Brack Pleasure
and seth Rawlins have like these eight month long programs
and then you know, they they cap it off at
SummerSlam and they're still in the same show, but they
never cross paths anymore. And I know that you kind
of have to suspend your disbelief with stuff like that,
But I think that if you would have had Brock
on SmackDown as WWE champion like it was originally planned,

(18:32):
and you kept seth Rawlins on Raw as the Universal
Champion and then started this faction, it would have been
such a better payoff because now you have the Fiend
take the Universal Belt to smack Down, which I still
think was they called an audible on because after Helen
is Celly kind of booked themselves into the corner where
he had to beat seth Rawlins. But now you have,

(18:54):
like you said, no one is a clear cut guy
for brock lesnar to fase and as a result, he's
entered the Royal Rumble, and there's no clear cut guy
because Seth, for all intentsive purposes, is the.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
Top heel on Raw and all the top babyfaces are
concerned with him.

Speaker 5 (19:09):
And then now on SmackDown you're having to kind of
rush to find a main event competitor for the Fiend
at WrestleMania, and as a result, Roman Reigns is the
only guy. So that's the one thing that I kind
of looked at this week and said, Man, if they
wouldn't have done all that whole nonsense with Rawlins in
the Fiend, things may have been even better than what
they already are.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Man, you said it. I mean, the temptation to go
negative on this is very high. And we have buried
I have buried Helena Sell. The entire WW fan base
has completely buried Helen a Seal and rightfully so, I'd
never wanted to see the Fiend and Bray White well
before the actual main event of Helena Cell happened and

(19:52):
the disaster happened, and the ripple effect of that is
still going on now. Nobody wanted. I just didn't feel
it it felt way too soon, said it. I didn't
want to see the Fiend with the belt for a while.
That made total sense too. And now, yeah, they're kind
of a in a situation that is Roman Reigns versus

(20:12):
the Fiend. Where else you going? You know, there's no
one else on SmackDown that makes any sense for WrestleMania
other than the n NXT guy coming in. I'm not
gonna say call up because it's not a call up anymore.
They're a legitimate third brand, but transferring or moving to
the SmackDown brand and facing Brockless or facing the Fiend,

(20:32):
So I yeah, this is kind of a foregone conclusion
for all intents and purposes. So, but actually transitioning a
little bit to this past week on SmackDown, Caine comes
out at the beginning of the show and they as
I predicted. And I don't think I'm a genius. It
didn't take a genius to figure this out that you know,
it was gonna be some kind of interaction with the

(20:52):
Fiend and Daniel Bryant to temporarily have a nice feel
good moment of reuniting team hell No, And that was fine.
I had no issue with that, Caine is I think
going to be in the Royal Rumble match. And what
did you think of that segment with Daniel Brian ripping
out part of the locks of the Fiend and then
backstage saying that, you know, the Fiend does what he

(21:15):
does best when he's in trouble, and that's run, and
then put the stipulation in that he's going to challenge
him to a what is it a strap match? And
even in you know, you think in Texas they're gonna
be in Houston, they'd be going a Texas bull rope match,
but no, it's just a strap match. So what did
you think about that whole segment on SmackDown?

Speaker 4 (21:33):
I like the segment.

Speaker 5 (21:34):
I like that what they've been doing with the Fiend
that he's you know, revisiting a rivalry with Daniel Brian
and they've tied in what happened on the show six
years ago when bray Wyatt was there with the family
and then this week with Kane. You know, he's he's
had several run ins with Kane. He attacked him as
the Fiend and then in bray White's debut year, his

(21:55):
first match was against Kane. I believe at SummerSlam in
an inferno. So I like how they're tying in the
history and they're not just thinking we all have the
memory of the Goldfish like Vince McMann WW often does.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
I liked it.

Speaker 5 (22:08):
It set up a good you know segment with Daniel
Bryant going over on him getting a good and feel
good story or like you thought, I'm intrigued with this match,
the Strap match. I think that they're going down the
road with a lot of gimmick matches for the Row Rumble,
which is fine. I'm a sucker for gimmick matches. And
they have the false count anywhere match now they obviously

(22:29):
that the two Rumble matches now the bull rope match,
not the bullrope the strap match, and so yeah, I
think it's gonna be a good match again. It's and
this has been a trend on SmackDown going back to
WrestleMania when Kovie was champion. That it's bothering me that
the quote unquote world Champion of the show is taking

(22:51):
second class.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
To Roman Reigns and whatever story angle he is in.
That's bothered me.

Speaker 5 (22:57):
I don't think we've seen the Universal title onuns on SmackDown,
like physically, Like, I know, we see it on the
fire Fight Funhouse, but we haven't seen the belt ones
since you know, Bray was champion or has been champion.
So besides the fact that I don't like it taking
a seat to Roman's angle, I thought, all in all,

(23:17):
the segment itself was really good.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Definitely, it was a very solid segment. Again, SmackDown is
just kind of it's just a good average to good show.
In most cases, where Raw is excelling, it has been
excelling for quite some time. Raw hasn't just been you know,
the past couple weeks a month, It's been several months
that RAW has been a very good show. So obviously
I think we can credit Paul Hayman assumingly to that

(23:42):
consistent change, and maybe the XFL is taking away Vince's
focus from being a complete hands on, hands on approach. Yeah,
but credit to where credits do on SmackDown. It was
a solid segment. Daniel Brian gets a little bit of
retribution on the Fiend and pulls out some of his
locks and a pair of glasses came out of the

(24:03):
bottom of the which is weird. Else no one else
mentioned that or notice I'm like what the hell are
a pair of why are glasses on them? Obviously that
was a mistake. But yeah, so that was good as well.
And I don't think that anyone really believes that Daniel
Brian's going to win it. To rumble, it's not a spoiler,
it's just this one somewhat is a is a foregone

(24:24):
conclusion as well, because what are you gonna have Roman
Rains versus Brian. We've already discussed that, I think last
week too. It just is not going to do Roman
Reigns any favors if you want to get that baby
face reaction for Rains, which is he's already going to
struggle anyway at Russell Mania, which I can't wait to see.
But yeah, this is a this is a match I'm
looking forward to because I think while Daniel Brian may

(24:46):
not win and probably won't, and I also am a
little bit resentful again for WWE's just incessant need to
make Roman Reigns the focus and put the belt second path,
you know, put it underneath Roman Reins. That's just what
they've done and they did it through the entire summer.
So but what I was going to say is that

(25:08):
if you have the Fiend out there with Daniel Brian.
Daniel Brian loses, and I think he will. There should
be something I might have mentioned this already, but there
should be some kind of hint to what the weakness
of the Fiend is. They haven't revisited that yet and
Rambling Rabbit apparently is alive, so I think that you
will see some kind of clue even in Daniel Brian's loss,

(25:32):
to what that weakness could be that Roman Reigns could expose.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
Yeah, I think that it will be exposed a bit,
or like you said, at least like a hint, because
I'm not sure. How is there one or two pay
per views between Rumble and Mania two? Okay, so they
could still carry on this feud between Bray and Dani
O'Brien theoretically, so I'm not really sure, like if they're

(26:00):
going to transition right into Roman Rings. So maybe this
is a slow burn with Daniel Bryan, so that maybe
they could you know, like have down Brian, you know,
maybe expose it a bit at the Royal Rumble and
then it transitioned to the next pay per view. But
I hope it is something that they carry out because
to your point, the last time we talked, it is
a very intriguing wrinkle in this whole storyline right now.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
It is, And as we're talking about Roman Reigns, he
faces Baron Corbin at the Royal Rumble, and Roman Reigns
stipulation is the most boring stipulation you could possibly come
up with, and that probably would have been implemented even
if it wasn't left up to him of a falls
count any we're match, which does not benefit him, considering
that Baron Corbin, who's done a brilliant job, by the way,

(26:44):
who has these cronies that outnumber the ussos and Roman Reigns.
So I didn't understand that if more logic would have
told you, well, keep people out, let's do a cage match, right,
I mean, we know we'll get people get in there.
But from the wrestling perspective, logic you would have think
Roman Reigns is like, hey, I'm tired of people and interfering.
I'm tired of you know all that. Let's put you

(27:04):
in a cage where you can't escape me. I mean
to me, that would have made more sense than a
false kind of anywhere match that actually promotes guys that
aren't in the match to be involved in the match. Nonetheless,
you have Baron Corbyn, who and again I feel like
a I don't want to be a Debbie Downer because
I'm looking forward to the match. Actually, and I think again,
Baron Corbin is the top heel on SmackDown. I love

(27:25):
his work that he's done over the last several months
and transforming into the King. He's really embracing it. And
but my concern is, I think we all believe that
Barreon Corbin's gonna lose. And there are two pay per
views in between now and between Rumble and Mania, so
this as Dan O'Brien and the Fiend could string out
a little bit longer before they get to the true
program that they're getting to at thet WrestleMania. But where

(27:48):
does Baron Corbin go after he loses to Roman Reigns.
I mean, all this progress they've made with Corbin, I
love his heel persona. There's still work to do, but
it's progress. What happens to Baron Corbin after Roman Reigns
just just takes him down and moves on to the Fiend.

Speaker 5 (28:06):
I think the only logical scenario would be him matching
up with Bronz Stroman heading towards the Mania, because I
think it's at least for me, I'm fully expecting for
Bronze Stroman to win the Underconnel Championship sooner rather than later.
From Shinski Nakamura. I love Nakamura. I love the group
for the most part with Sammy Zand and Czarro, but

(28:27):
it's really run his course now as the mid tier
champion on SmackDown. He was the US champion for an
extended stretch last year when that belt was on SmackDown.
Then as soon as the IC title came to the
Blue Ground he's held it for a good while now.
I don't even remember who he took the belt from.
I think it's been at least since the summer so
and we've talked about at length that we like Nackmore,

(28:48):
but he's run his course as champ. I think Stroman's
gonna take it, and they'll pair him with Baron Corbin.
They had a really good program last year around this
time when they were both on Raw, they had good
chemist and I think that's the only logical immediate solution
for Korb and beyond Roman reigns.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
I like that, Yeah, I think that that is a
great position for both guys and Bronze Strowman actually gets
a true opponent at a WrestleMania rather than dealing with
some foolish Saturday Night Live guys or having a six
year old be his tag partner or whatever kind of
nonsense they want to throw him in with Tyson Fury.

(29:27):
I'm tired of Bronz Stroman being in these just just nonsensical, comedic,
cartoonish segments. I need Bronz Stroman in a real program
at WrestleMania. And I know Tyson Fury was in a WrestleMania,
but my point is I need Bronz Stroman and that
that is a good position for him to actually win
a championship. And I think it actually would benefit benefit

(29:50):
bron Stroman and ultimately benefit Baron KORbin, who I think
needs a belt to go on a long run with
and have his cronies to back him up and hold
it for months and build heat. So could Corbin win
that at WrestleMania. I know we're like three steps ahead
of ourselves, but I think Baron Corbins Intercontinental champion would
be er. I would love it. I would love it.
I would I would Honestly, I'd love him as the

(30:12):
Universal Champion, but I don't think that's in the future,
at least in the next six months.

Speaker 4 (30:16):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
I'm with you on that and this whole group. Yeah,
I love sammy' z ain. How could you not love
to hate him? He comes out and just loses his
mind over Shenske's music and is obnoxious. He's a great talker,
he can take a bump sam as Ziggler. This is
an really underrated group of talent and have they been

(30:39):
position in the right way, they could be a top
heel faction and kind of run parallel to Seth and
the AOP and now Buddy Murphy and maybe we'll get
into that next. But there's just so much that they
could do with this group. I don't think they understand
what they have on their hands.

Speaker 5 (30:55):
Yeah, I pretty much consider Zane and Knockmore and Cesara
right now the what's the name of it, the OC
of SmackDown, And you know, I do find and this
is just me, and I know I'm just overly tough
on him, but Cizarro is really goofy to me, and
that I kind of always laugh when he comes out

(31:15):
and mostly just because he's changing his outfit and his
gear from week to week and wearing a shirt that's
four sizes too small, and just the fact that he
doesn't have a personality. But all that aside, I like
all of them, I think that they would just need
to go in a different direction war as a group,
as opposed to just knack Amore being the Inner Connel
Champion and not holding it hostage, but kind of to

(31:37):
an extent in terms of valuing the championship, I just
think that that belt would do broun Strowman some good,
as he hasn't held a singles championship in any capacity
since joining WWE, and even eventually Baron Corbin post WrestleMania,
because I'm pretty sure the only title that Corbyn's ever
held was the US Championship for a two or three months,

(32:00):
so that was over two years ago now, So I
just think that the ICY Championship would be best served
for some more high level single opponents.

Speaker 4 (32:08):
Right now, we're single wrestlers, and.

Speaker 5 (32:10):
That's not any slight on Knakamura and Sammy's a and Cesarro.
I just don't think that there's any point and nobody's
really benefiting from the Intercontinental Championship being a part of
that mix.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
They're not, and they're they're doing a disservice as talent
as Nakamura is. They have and I have, and I
think some of the viewers have kind of forgotten that
he's champion outside of Bronz Stroman saying he deserves a shot,
and he does based on the fact that he has
beaten Nakamura before, he holds several wins against him, so rightfully,
so he should be next in line to win the

(32:43):
Intercontinental Championship. I'm all for that. I just I just
hope that after Knakamura drops the belt, this group doesn't disband.
And I will say only if their next plan as
well break them up, and you know, Samuel do his
separate thing and Knackamura do his separate thing, and Cesarro'll
do his separate thing, because we've seen them do their

(33:03):
separate things, you know, and it just hasn't been it
hasn't been solid, it hasn't been it hasn't been really
executed well. And like you said, Cizarrow is a goofball
great in the ring, stupid, strong, but goofy, right, that
is a good way to describe him. He's just a
goofball that you just don't know how to feel about

(33:24):
him because he's great, but you don't understand any gimmick
he's ever done ever. So that yeah, and Nakamura, obviously
ultra talented. Samy's ain't to me is the star of
that entire group. He's the mouthpiece. He's like the mouth
of the South Jimmy Hart, but except he's an actual
performer that can go. I love what he's doing. So

(33:44):
transitioning a little bit into what potentially can be coming
down the line here, and we got a little bit
more hint on SmackDown as well, with the Revival continuing
to lose and they could they lost again and what
could this possibly mean? The Revival seem to be hinting
at a potential change in character gimmick. We're not sure,

(34:08):
but the announcers hinted at it. The Revival themselves kind
of alluded to some kind of change coming. What could
this be?

Speaker 5 (34:17):
I'm not sure what it could be, but I know
they've been, you know, kind of teasing the whole them
leaving WWE for quite some time now, and even the
Revival meant kind of teased it in their promo after
their loss on the SmackDown, but I think that's more
just them playing to the storyline, especially the fact that
they just re signed with w WE. I've always been
someone who's more bullish on the Revival than most. You know,

(34:40):
a lot of my friends who follow NXT and are
hard hardcore wrestling fans in terms of the Indies and
the other promotions really were high on them because of
the old school wrestling tag team and they do the
old style and they're real, like like nostalgic tag team.

Speaker 4 (34:56):
But for me, I've never really connected with them.

Speaker 5 (34:58):
They kind of just feel stay like, Okay, we get
it that they're tough guys, but and they're old school wrestlers,
but beyond that, I don't find there's a lot of
depth to their characters.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
And you can see it now that they're rapidly.

Speaker 5 (35:10):
Falling down the tag team depth chart on SmackDown like
New Day and is going head to head with John
Morrison in the mis right now, which figures to end
up in a tag team title.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
Match at Roll Rumble.

Speaker 5 (35:22):
Then you get the USOS who just returned Heavy Machinery.
Then you kind of got to consider Ziggler and Robert
Rude as a tag team at the same time. So
I think the revival should change. I think they don't
really have a choice right now to change it up
a bit in any capacity that they can, because they
are kind of just becoming a forgotten face on SmackDown.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
They are, and when you see them come out and again,
we all know how talented they are in the ring.
That's not the that's not the issue. And their whole persona,
their whole gimmick, if you will, is not having a gimmick.
It's just being the old school guys that come out
in their trunks and boots and are good chain wrestlers

(36:06):
and old school hard hitting and don't do the flips
and flops and all the you know, the four fifty
splashes and thousand suicide dives that they actually just wrestle
and that's been their their their thing. And while that
sounds ingenius of kind of in a way of your
gimmick is not having a gimmick. It's just not translating

(36:26):
while on TV, and even when they explicitly talk about
how silly it is that we're in a New Year's
Eve street fight or whatever it was, and they had
to use legos and stupid crap, and they were angry
about that, and I was too. I'm kind of going, yeah, like,
this is childish, stupid crap, and for them to call
that out on air was I loved it. But there's

(36:48):
just something not connecting, and I don't want them to
go and do it. Shorty g is done and be
able to connect with the audience in your match, and
that's actually building fan support. And then WWE goes, oh,
this is this is this is this is working. Let's
fix that, and they go and give them a stupid
gimmick which is now retrograding his progress. I don't want

(37:09):
them to just put all this colorful stuff on them
and give him a silly entrance. I don't know what
the fix is. I'm not smart enough to figure out
what they should do. But we all agree, and they
agree online and the announcers all agree that something needs
to give.

Speaker 5 (37:25):
Yeah, well, I'm glad you brought up SHORTYG because there
are instances where it's the creative and not the wrestler.
The writing is stupid and SHORTYG is stupid, and that's
why people don't connect with them right now as they
were when he was Chad Gable with the revival. It
seems like one of those instances where they've been booked strongly.
They've held the tag team titles, whether it be on

(37:45):
Raw and SmackDown. I think on at least three separate
occasions now they've constantly been amongst the best for the
last calendar year.

Speaker 4 (37:53):
They're saying all the right.

Speaker 5 (37:54):
Things as you just mentioned, calling out the stupidity and
often the buffoonery type things they have to do with
this cheesy you know era or the New Year's.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
Eve street fights or what have you.

Speaker 5 (38:06):
But it's just they're missing something and maybe this is
just an instance where it's on the actual wrestlers themselves.
It's on the guys themselves to develop the characters, because
to be honest, I don't know how much stronger these
guys can be booked by w W RE than they
already have. They Maybe they've been on a losing streak
as of late, but they've had two or three separate

(38:28):
occasions where they are the legitimate top tag team on
whichever respective brand they are at that time. So I
think that they can't do anything too drastic with the
revival because at the end of the day, it's not
always the case, but in this particular instance, it is
just on Dash and Dawson and maybe just their execution
has to be better.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
There's no question. There's no question that it may be
up to the wrestlers. As you said, though I don't
know what their contract status is. They've kind of been
hinting it leaving for a while. Don't know if there's
any truth to that or if that that that's just
storyline within storyline, but there's something that needs to change.
I'm not maybe if I was gonna nitpick on their
actual presentation. I'm not a fan of their entrance music.

(39:12):
It's not exciting. It's it's got kind of a country
flair to it, and even if you like country music,
it's not an exciting jam. It's not it doesn't do
anything for me. It's not it's not wrestling music. It's
not wrestling entrance music. So maybe a simple as that
and changing up the attire a little bit. And I
don't know, but I don't want them to do a
shortyg uh, Well, they're they're getting over by wrestling. Let's

(39:34):
fix that. It's almost as this WWE sees that and goes, no,
that's not how they should get over. They should get
over with this, you know this, uh this, and then
change them into this this uh not this awful uh
just stomach churning type of I embrace who I am?
We all? I mean I could rants on that for
an hour, so I'm not but uh, that's what I
don't want. So I don't know what it means by

(39:56):
finding themselves whatever they have to do. But they are
a good hand. They're great and they're super talented. They
have great chemistry. I like their motto. But there's just
they're not connecting, kind of like Cizarrow has never connected,
but he's hung around because he's so damn good in
the ring and he has still not found a gimmick.

(40:16):
If you ask Cizarrow point blank, what is your mission?
What's your mission statement?

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Who?

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Who is Cizarrow? We have no idea? Is he a
Swiss superman?

Speaker 4 (40:28):
Right?

Speaker 1 (40:28):
I don't know who he is.

Speaker 5 (40:30):
Yeah, well it's Czarrow. It's just going back to what
he started. You had him being the translator, then he
became James Bond, then he went to the bar, and
then if that's not enough, since he disbanded from the.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
Bar, he's had so many gemmicks just.

Speaker 5 (40:46):
Over the last nine months or so, like he started
coming out in a jumpsuit, then he changed to kind
of like skinny sweatpants with short ankles with like that
black coat over it. Now he's coming out in regular
regular or like wrestling trunks.

Speaker 4 (41:03):
And it's just a lot of these guys that they
want to keep.

Speaker 5 (41:07):
Them on the show because they're so good in the ring,
but they just really don't know what to do with them,
and it just it sucks for Cesarro because just take
look at a guy like Shamus, and I've always been
a Shamus fan, but ever since his promos started, and
now he's clearly going for a rivalry with Chad Gable
or Shorty g Just Seamus's couple of promos since he's

(41:30):
come back over these last couple of weeks have interested
me more than nine or ten months of trying to
build up Cesarro post the Bar, And that just shows
you that at times it's not always the writing and
the creative which they have their faults, and I'm not,
you know, exolving them of any blame here, but sometimes
it is just the execution of the wrestlers themselves.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Absolutely it is. And it's hard on the outside to
determine whether or not it's created, or it's the wrestlers
coming up assisting with their creative, or it's a combination
of both, or if they're if they are handed a
script or if I again, depending, I think it's a
case by case on who has more control over their
creative I would assume that tenure has a lot to

(42:15):
do with it. Again, it's hard to point the finger.
I'm gonna go the safe road and say it's a
combination of both and that Cizarrow needs to find out
who he is because I know that there's there is
a main event in there. I can remember when Cizarrow
went one on one with Johnson and the main event
of RAW, I don't know, maybe like six years or five,

(42:36):
five years ago, something like six years ago, I don't know,
and it just like you were just like holy crap,
like that was a damn good match. That's what I
want from Czarrow. He does his talking in the ring,
but that can only get you so far, and he
needs to follow up with this and to put your
point on Seamus. I I'm I'm really loving what Seamus

(42:57):
is doing right now. I love that he is and
I don't know if anyone's pointing this out too. But
like his body man, he has toned down. He's cut
the fat and up the muscle, or maybe just cut
the fat and revealed the muscle a little bit more.
But he looks great. He looks to me the best
he's ever looked in his career. And yeah, he's back
to his twenty eleven look. But that works. It works

(43:19):
for Seamus, and Seamus's whole thing. Anytime he's been a heel,
most times it has been that he's picking on the
shorter guys. He's picking on the little guys, our heroes,
as he likes to put it. I like that. I
would have liked if wwe didn't beat to death that
it's been shortyg that oh my god, he's so small

(43:40):
and like they how many times have this this joke
has been running like all all fall and now into
the wintertime, it's dead. I mean, like enough, right, I'm
not into that part of it because it's been killed
by everyone. But I do like that Seamus is Pinwick
with Chad Gable because I think that this is the

(44:02):
potential to be a really good match. I'm looking forward
to this program. I see Shamus coming out on top
of it. I don't see shortyg or excuse me, Chad
Gable actually coming out victorious, but he'll put up a
good fight as he did with the King of the
Ring finals. I'm ultimately looking for Seamus here, who could
be a top heel on SmackDown if he continues to roll,
and I think he will. I think he's gonna make

(44:23):
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Speaker 5 (45:43):
Yeah, I think Seamus is one of the most underrated
wrestlers of the last decade because he came in I guess.
I think it was in two thousand and nine when
he showed up. His first media match was against Triple H.
And rumor has it that he was Triple H's PEP project,
and not sure if that's true, but he was really
always he's won the top guys there. Like there was
a stretch where he had a lengthy World Heavyweight Championship

(46:05):
run after wrestling at twenty eight. I believe when he
beat Daniel Bryant in seventeen seconds or whatever, he had
a really under the radar but really good program with
the Big Show that year, and he had a few
good runs as US Champion. He was always like, not
to sound cliche, but a good soldier, like no matter
what program he was in, it was interesting. I always
liked his style in the ring, and when they paired

(46:28):
him with Cizarro in the summer of twenty sixteen, I
liked it. It culminated that Best of seven a series
that they had on Raw when mcfoley was the GM,
and I liked him as a pairing. As a tag team,
they were my favorite tag team for most of the
last two or three years before they ultimately disbanded. But

(46:49):
in saying that, I always felt like there was a
bit left in there for Shame has to have one
really solid singles run left in him, because like you said,
he's been around for a long time, and the same
with Cesarrow. But Seamus already had a somewhat.

Speaker 4 (47:05):
Main event run.

Speaker 5 (47:06):
He was the WWE champion a few times, like I said,
the World Heavyweight Champion, but even when he was with
the Bar and I like the pairing and I find
it really elevates Czarro. I've always felt that he still
has one more main event run left in him.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
And maybe this could be the kickstart to something.

Speaker 5 (47:22):
Because also touching on the Interconnel Championship again, if it's
not Corbin, I would love to see a program of
Seamus and braun Strowman.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
That would be awesome. I would sign up for that.
And yes, I think Seamus is going to slide very
nicely into that IC Championship run. And we've already booked
the championship off of Shinske. I mean, it's just kind
of inevitable. As you said, it's run its course, and
Shamis is an awesome contender for that, and I think

(47:52):
could have a long run. I don't believe whatever Stroman
gets this, it's going to be holding on to it
for very long, unless it's at WrestleMania, in which case
those championship wins should stick. I'm of the big belief
of that because it's kind of like hitting your reset
button and really sending a message to fans of like
what in who you believe could take an and have

(48:13):
a long run with this and who they've been building
towards most of the last few months. Like that, that's
what I want. I want a long run. But yeah, Seamus,
there's a really the limitless places he could go right now,
And I don't know if this is technically or well.
I guess in the eyes of fans that this may
be his last shot. But I think he's got a

(48:33):
lot of years left in him. I don't think he's
too beat up. He took some time off, got his
body in shape, healed himself up, looks awesome, and he
has I think good five years left in him to
potentially main event and be a top heel. I'm looking
forward to it. I love his style and physicality in
the ring too. You kind of touched on that a
little that his in ring style is one that you

(48:56):
can't see through. You can't see through what he does,
meaning he works stiff right he he is just physical.
He makes you go ouch. He makes you almost feel
the chops that he does. When he took Shorties G's
Shorty G's head off, nearly took it off with the
bro kick a couple of weeks ago, and SmackDown. He's
always just very physical in the ring. That's what I love.

(49:18):
He doesn't feel like he's wrestling. He feels like he's fighting,
and that's something that I can appreciate.

Speaker 5 (49:23):
Yeah, and that's why I've always liked him too because
he also has a kind of complex style for a
big man, and I always found that when he fought
guys who otherwise kind of looked clunky in the ring,
like the later years of The Big Show, Seamus brought
the best out of him because.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
Of that fighting esque style that he had.

Speaker 5 (49:44):
And now that you talked about it, like how many
more years he had left in him, I think that
beyond WrestleMania, I think that he could be a challenger
for Roman Reigns if Roman Reigns were to win the
Universal Championship. Maybe not win the belt from Roman Reigns,
but maybe he have like a two to three long
pay per view program with each other.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
You know, they.

Speaker 5 (50:03):
Briefly had a few I guess it was who like
four years ago now when he cashed in money in
the bank on Roman Reigns after Rowan Rains won it
at Survivor Series, but when he formed the League of
Nations there, but like that kind of died in the cradle.
They didn't have an extended rivalry and that was always
more about Roman versus the authority.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
But you know, even that that would be a really
cool program between Rowan Rains and Seamus. Seamus is just
one of those.

Speaker 5 (50:29):
Guys that I don't think he's quite to a legacy
star type level yet like a Randy Orton, but he's
not that far off, and he carries quite a pedigree.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yeah, yeah, he really does. He is very underappreciated. I mean,
I can't believe we've talked this long about Seamus. I
don't think I ever have. But that's not a bad thing.
This is good because I've never really broken down what
he's done and thought about it as a whole. It
with his entire body of work that, yeah, there's a
lot there, There's still a lot that could be there,

(51:02):
and I don't know he's I don't think he's at
the level of Randy Orton, and I think he could be.
He you could label him as a legacy star at
this point because he did. He debuted freaking ten to
eleven years ago. He's been here a long time, He's
had some good to great matches. We all love his
body of work. He just he feels like he touches
the top and then just kind of sinks down to

(51:24):
touch the top and sink down, And that's kind of
been what his career has been, and not everyone can
be at the top for you know, forever, and no
one can reach the top all the time, and that's fine,
but I just I don't think that we've given Seamus
a fair crack at being a heel champion or really
being at the top contender wise for a long period

(51:44):
of time. And you mentioned it, and I think that's
a good idea to put Seamus right into Roman Reigns
in terms of his challengers that you know that happened
right after WrestleMania. Again, we're all just going under the
assumption Rains is winning the Universal Championship but also making
it back to win the Rumble to face the Fiend
and then two pay per views in between it. But
I think that that is ultimately what's going to happen.

(52:06):
But Seamus would be a great first opponent for Roman Reigns.
As you mentioned, they faced each other three and a
half four years ago now, and they could pull on
that a little bit. And Seamus certainly I think matched
up very nicely back then. So you add four years experience,
these two could potentially go on to my god, well
it's not backlash anymore, but you go for the next

(52:28):
couple of pay per views, and yeah, Seamus isn't gonna win,
but it certainly could be. I think a really good
program and Seamus too. I don't think we've talked about
that on the mic. He's not bad, right, Seamus has
believability on the mic, he has conviction. Has he ever
wowed me with a promo? No, but I think given
the right program, given the right situation, and the right

(52:51):
flexibility allowing him to just kind of speak as himself,
there's something there. But his promo ability I think is
a bit untapped.

Speaker 5 (53:00):
Yeah, and you know, it just feels like he kind
of got the shaft even when he was quote unquote
getting pushed because the year he won the Royal Rumble,
he opened up WrestleMania. You know, he was the first
match of WrestleMania. I know he was going for the
World Heavyweight Championship, but by twenty twelve, the World Heavyweight
Championship didn't mean all that much. And that does a

(53:22):
whole can of worms that I could rant on for forever.
But you know, once they you know, abolished that original
version of the brand split, the World Heavyweight Championship took
a backseat to the WWE Championship, and I understand that
that year it was kind of messed up because you
had the Rock versus John Cena a year in advance

(53:42):
to main event resume at twenty eight, and I'm actually
not quite sure what the w W Championship scene was.
I'm pretty I know Cmpunk was the champion, and I
believe he defended it against Chris A. Jericho in the
Chicago Street Fight. I'm not quite sure, but I'm pretty
sure that's what happened at resume twenty eight.

Speaker 4 (53:59):
But nevertheless, Seamus won the Royal Rumble.

Speaker 5 (54:04):
And chose to fight Daniel Runn for the World Heavyweight Championship,
which wasn't the main belt, no matter how bad they try,
wasn't the million Belt because there was no brand split.
And they opened the match and the match went on
for what ten seconds, not even twenty one, and I
just found that, Yeah, you made him win the Rumble
and all that, and he had his rest on in
a moment, but you know, it really devalued the winn

(54:26):
of the Rumble and it was kind of like a
half assed push for the guys. So I feel like
there's untapped potential for Seamus of actually going right to
the top.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
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(55:18):
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mean the thing is too, it doesn't have to earn
his stripes in front of fans, because he's done that.
He's been here long enough. He's certainly even if you're
a heel and people hate you, that's doesn't mean that
they don't respect you. And the fans, I think respect Seamus,

(55:38):
even if they think that, oh my god, Seamus, we've
seen it before. But Seamus is I think he has
a chance at new life here and Shortyg's simply a
stepping stone. Could he face Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania again?
And they start, they pull back to WrestleMania twenty eight
of what happened, and that was damn tragedy. Although I
remember it. That was one of the prominent things I

(55:59):
rem remember from that pay per view of Daniel Bryan
kissing aj Lee and then immediately getting broke kicked and
losing the championship. That was shocking and certainly noteworthy, and
you could love it or hate it. It's kind of
akin to Kobe Kingston having that long run and then
ultimately losing in nine or eight seconds to brock Lesner.
You know, it's shocking, you don't see it coming, and

(56:22):
it's it's divides people a lot on whether you love
it or hate it, because you could say, oh, that's
so disrespectful, or you could say that didn't see that coming.
That is a big statement to make to fans of Hey,
you know, you thought this is gonna be a long match.
This this is something that we you know, we knew
that you thought was going to be a long match.

(56:42):
It's something of a bit of a swerve to fans,
and that it adds the the very much needed, much
needed feeling to the WWE product of anything could happen
at any time that has been missing from the WWE
product for I don't know how long because and again
this is probably a discussion for a much larger issue,

(57:04):
but in general, when I used to watch back in
you know, even in the Ruthless Aggression, through the PG
era to some mixt or I'm sorry, the cmpunk era
to some extent, which ultimately ended up being this PG era,
and of course the Attitude Era, all of those times
from about nineteen ninety seven through about two thousand, even

(57:26):
twenty and twelve, to some degree, you had that feeling
of anything can happen at any time, and you just
never knew what was going to happen. In this case,
today's product, I love Raw SmackDown is improved, but that
feeling of you don't know what could happen, who's coming out,
what's going to be happening, what the outcome of this
match could be. That feeling for the most part is gone,

(57:49):
and we've just kind of accepted that as fans, which
I think is ultimately hurting our emotional investment in the product.

Speaker 5 (57:57):
Yeah, I think some of it is attested to social
media media, but it's also just the product itself, because
look at us, like it's not normal that pretty much
since the Saudi Arabia show of Crown Jewel, you and
I have been on here saying, well, we're looking forward
to the Royal Rumble, but it's gonna be Roman raigns
like that shouldn't happen.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
It should be a what could happen? Mentality?

Speaker 5 (58:20):
Or like even the Fiend with as universal champion, like
I found, it's kind of been a lackluss to run,
but it's just been more out of predictability because Okay,
well the miss isn't gonna beat him, and we know
that Daniel Bryan is in a position to beat him,
and it's just kind of it's lacked, you know.

Speaker 4 (58:37):
And even on Raw right.

Speaker 5 (58:39):
Now, where I love Raw, I think Raw is in
the best position it's been in quite some time, and
they are upping the annie of you know, unpredictability, but
good unpredictability. But like there's even just more of that,
well who is brought gonna fight? And but like we
kind of know who it's gonna be, Like we don't,

(59:00):
Like you said, like I missed the days where it
could be a group of any six guys who can
win it. Like man, I was watching that Royal Rumble
from earlier today, like I said, two thousand and one,
and Steve Austin ended up winning it. But you know,
the Rock was in that match, Undertaker was in that match,
Kane was in that match. You know, Caine set the
record or until Roland Rains broke it of most eliminations

(59:21):
in a single Royal Rumble match.

Speaker 4 (59:23):
And like there's no instances like that anymore.

Speaker 5 (59:27):
Where you could take, you know, a group of five
or six guys and legitimately try and pick which one
we would win.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
No, you don't have that, you have Like you're right.
I think it was all the way back to the
Saudi Arabia event and we were talking about it. We're like, yeah,
well Roman has been out of the picture for a while.
Looks like Roman's winning this rumble. I mean we've talked
about it and talked about it, and it's been months
and months and months and that shouldn't be right. You're right,
that should not be the case. But unfortunately we've kind

(59:55):
of just accepted that as fans, we've lowered our standards
to well, that's just looks like what they're doing. So
we'll just kind of just get it over with, just
do it right. Like that's how I feel right now.
I feel as if it's going to be exciting. I'm
looking forward to the match. I'm actually I'm not looking
forward to the end of the match. I'm looking forward
to the other ninety five percent because that's the part

(01:00:16):
I don't know, right That's the part that I don't know,
is what are the interactions going to be with Brocken
n XT guys or Brocken Drew McIntyre just teasing different matchups.
That's the story I'm looking forward to because I think
we all know the end result, right, oh boy, Roman wins.
It's just get it over with. But I'm going to
enjoy the journey more than the destination in this case, Oh.

Speaker 5 (01:00:38):
Yeah, one hundred percent, because like we've both said, like
the product has been very good for the most part.
It's just like I wish we thought we were more
on the edge of our seats in terms of what
the main event to wrestle me it was going to be.
And you know, there there are some instances where the
bill justifies the predictability to an extent, like I remember

(01:01:01):
in two thousand and five, like the bill to Bautista
for Triple Age. But that was a build between Triple
H and Bautista that went all the way back to
pretty much since Randy Orton was kicked out of Evolution
the summer of four. So although I kind of knew
that it was going to culminate in Batista verse Triple H,
all going all the way back to New Year's Resolution

(01:01:22):
that year when they were both in the chamber together,
the payoff was so good that I was just like,
I don't care that I knew it was coming. I'm
here for Batista versus Triple Age. But in this instance
where we're just expecting the fiend versus Roman reigns, it's like, man,
these guys haven't even crossed paths and how many years.
I think the last time that they had a feud
was in two thousand and fifteen, so for over four years,

(01:01:46):
these guys have not cross passed in any capacity.

Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
But we're still able to call it four.

Speaker 5 (01:01:52):
Months in advantage that these guys are in a collision
course that should not be Like, it's not normal that
we are seeing those stars aligned for two guys that
literally haven't seen each other for in four years.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Yeah, it has been that long, and I think that
and again this is this I really you know, Look,
you don't like being negative on the product that people
think I do. I really don't. I love the product
and I want to see it improve. But some people
think it's just me bitching. But look, I think the
problem that we're seeing, the reason that we can call
this stuff so damn far in advance, is because there's

(01:02:25):
a lack of star power. And I don't think that
is that's I don't think subjective. I think that's a
very objective observation that there's just simply a lack of
big stars on the roster, on either roster. Yes, you
have Rock Lesson, you have rand ne Yorton, you have
Roman Reigns, you have aj styles. But when you have

(01:02:46):
a lack of big stars that you look at and go, man,
I don't know, like this is this is our top guy,
But this guy's up and coming. The fans are really
getting behind him, and this guy's been here for a
long time. It's just Roman Reigns is at the top
of the mountain of SmackDown, period, and there's nobody else
that the company seems to be looking at that they

(01:03:09):
could put the shoulders of SmackDown on and as forces it.
Maybe that's the reality of it. And you talk about, well,
back in two thousand and one, you had guys like Undertaker,
Triple H, you had Stone Cold Caine, all these guys
in the Rumble that could feasibly win the damn thing. Yeah,
but that's also because the star power was off the charts.

(01:03:32):
And that's to some degree almost an unfair comparison because
of how awesome and big and it was an all
star roster every single Monday night and every single pay
per view. So to make that comparison, I love the look.
I love that time back then, and I'm probably gonna
go watch that Rumble because I forgot how awesome it is.
But the thing is that when you have a lack

(01:03:55):
of star power like this, it immediately points to Maho's
top guy.

Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
It goes, well, yeah, it's Roman on this show, and
so and so on this show, and maybe there's one
other dark horse in there that maybe it could be,
but ultimately this is nothing more than a reflection of
their failure to make a big stars out of their roster.
End of story.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
Yeah, well, like just think back to two thousand and
one and like the more like we talked about it, it
seems like this was almost like the peak of wrestling
in so many ways in terms of this pure star
power on the roster. And I remember at the culmination
of the Invasion Angle, they had that tournament, that one
night tournament to deem the undisputed champion, and it was
Vengeance two thousand and one, and you had the Rock

(01:04:39):
in Jericho and then you had Angle in Austin, and
we all know what happened. Chris Jericho ended up winning
the undisputed Championship the least likely of all four. You know,
the Rock was the reigning WCW champion Austin, the reigning
WWF champion. Kurd Angle was already I think a two
or three time WWF champion by last point, and apparently

(01:05:01):
he was the original choice, and Vincement Mann called an
audiball and switched it to Jericho, and you know what
that was an excellent run, and Jericho stood on that
leg for so long as the first ever undispeared champion.
And look at some of the guys in WWE who
could have been that champion at the time. We just
riled off Austin Angle and the Rock who were in
that match, the Undertaker, the Big showing Kine to an extent.

(01:05:24):
You know, Triple H was returning the next month after
a knee hiatus, and he ended up winning the row
rumble to face Jericho at that year's Mania in the
main event. So like in an instance where you had
guys that you could easily easily say four or five
guys bona fide ahead of Chris Jericho, you pull like
you pull the trigger on making Jericho win and everyone

(01:05:46):
is okay with it because he is that damn good
and the rosters that damn good, and the writing is
that damn good where you can swerve everyone in a
good way and people are actually buying in not just
because you swerve them, but because it's believable.

Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
You know, you just don't see that anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
You don't. And those are calculated risks, And that is
one that I remember watching, going are you having kidding me?
Chris Jericho. I remember being so mad, but at the
same time, I'm like, that's freaking brilliant because now there
was so much heat on Jericho. And I remember a
promo after he beat Austin and Rock in the same night,

(01:06:25):
which he has as you said, he stood on that
for years and rightfully so, because nobody else can say
that that he beat Austin in the Rock in the
same night. His promo. It might have been the Monday
night Raw after he was sitting by a pool with
the two championship belts next to him and bragging about
what he did, and I'm like, somebody needs to whip
this guy's ass. And that's the feeling I want. That's

(01:06:48):
the calculation or the risk that he that Vince took
on that call, and it was a brilliant ended up
being a brilliant call. Loved it, but hated it. I
hated to love it. It's kind of a weird feeling.
But when you have that feeling of wanting to see
the guy get his ass kick, that's what you want.
That's selling tickets, that's people buying the network. And I

(01:07:09):
loved it. Yeah, I'd forgotten about that, but man, that
was freaking nineteen years ago. It's insane, but yes, loved
it something like that, though when it happened in twenty twenty, don't.
I don't think so. I just WWE feels so controlled
and it's a much different world now. It's just such

(01:07:30):
a micro managed backstage area. And again this has been
verified by several guys who leave the company and John
Moxley's exhibit a of what the culture is backstage, and
it's extremely micro managed. And to have them do something
that risky, to put somebody that nobody expects in that position,
I just we could talk about it and I would

(01:07:52):
love it, but I don't think WWE has the balls
to do it.

Speaker 5 (01:07:56):
And look, that's not to say that everything we did
back then were you know, paid off in space, like
like we just said, like I loved when Jericho first
won the title, but like it wasn't the best WrestleMania.

Speaker 4 (01:08:08):
Of all time.

Speaker 5 (01:08:08):
Like I think that that main event of Jericho Verse
Triple h was one of the most underwhelming main events,
especially given the fact that it followed the raw ends
Hulk Hogan, which for all intents and purposes, is what
people remember Wrestlingia eighteen about. And like you know, for me, like,
I think that they kind of missed an opportunity there
by having Austin versus Triple H at a Mania one

(01:08:31):
on one. I think that's what it should have been,
especially given the fact that Stone Cold Steve Austin was
you know, just kind of thrown to the weight side
and forgotten in a throwaway match with Scott Hall at
that year's Wrestlingia. I really think that for a WrestleMania
type moment, they would have been best served having it
Austin versus Stone Cold Steve Austin, just because I didn't

(01:08:52):
think Austin triple H for Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Speaker 4 (01:08:56):
Or at least includes Steve Austin the match make it
triple threat.

Speaker 5 (01:08:59):
So I think WWE is just so afraid to maybe
look back on a moment like that where they made
a risky move and put on Jericho, and while the
payoff was great, that you know, some of the immediate
effects of looking back in hindsight an underwhelming WrestleMania match
main event match maybe scares them off from doing it again.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
It probably does. Yeah, boy, you're bringing back some memories
now at eighteen. It's that is what we all remember
media for or Hogan Rock Hogan Austin, don't even get
me started. Hogan Rock happened, and you know what, it worked.
It worked. And it's amazing that you can have a
match that people remember for the ages that was nothing

(01:09:43):
more than a slow motion, a slow motion move for
move type of methodically paced match. And again, it's amazing
that that is the type of match that people look
back and go, oh my god, the match was awesome.
But when you look at the athleticism the lack of
in that match, I mean, obviously due to Hogan's limitations.

(01:10:05):
It's just so funny that today's standards have been have
changed so dramatically to what people deem quota five star match.
But when you have two massive stars that make every
move count, I actually oftentimes prefer that because it's not
so damn fast paced and I can understand what's happening
versus today's four to fifty splash insanity, spot spot spot

(01:10:29):
spot match. But again to your point about also the
rest of the card that Austin. For the fact that
Austin and Triple H never had a WrestleMania match is
actually surprising considering how awesome some of their feuds were
and how long some of them run. It just never
happened across in Amania. We will I remember the Jericho
Triple H match for really one thing of Triple H

(01:10:50):
finally getting his hands on Stephanie at the time when
they were in a program against one another, and him
finally pedigreeing Stephanie McMahon if I recall correctly that, I'll
remember that. And yes, that throwaway match with Hall, I
remember that whole deal, like, what what are they doing
with Austin? This is their top guy? And it was
Scott Hall, like why not Hogan? I kept saying that,

(01:11:12):
why not Hogan? And yes, he ended up stunning Scott Hall,
like you know, forty times, and he stunned Kevin Nash
and drank some beer. And it felt nothing more than
kind of like a you know, not a WrestleMania moment,
but even a Monday that Raw or like a Backlash
or maybe a Summer Slam type of moment. But it
just did not feel right. And obviously we know what

(01:11:32):
the rest of the history is that Austin was burned out.
He actually left the night after that and skipped Raw
and then obviously the walkout with brock Lesnar that followed
in the coming months, but man, yeah, you're you're bringing
me back.

Speaker 5 (01:11:45):
Yeah, I just remember that Mania the card because like
even like Kurt Angle, you know, he had a match
with Kane, you know, the Undertaker had a heel Undertaker
when he had just turned heel, and he had that
street fight with Ric Flair, and it just like you
had a lot of good wrestlers still in their primes.
Obviously Austin on the back end of that, but like

(01:12:07):
you couldn't have done Austin verus Taker, Austin versus Angle,
and that Austin Engle had a really big rivalry in
two thousand and one leading up to two thousand and two,
and like it just felt like it was all centered
around Rock and Hogan and everything else would just follow
suit and how the chips fell as how it would be,
And it seemed like Wrestling eighteen was booked a lot

(01:12:30):
like how WRESTLINGA thirty four was, Wrestling a thirty two was,
where everything was centered around Triple H and Roman reigns
and gaging Roman reigns over in the mean event and
everything else just took back seat to it. And it
was even more so odd that they main evented with
Triple H and Chris Jericho, and it was a fine match,

(01:12:50):
and it was weird seeing Triple H as the baby face,
you know, going over and winning the Undersperiod Championship after
years of being arguably the top heel. But you know it,
it was just like, you couldn't have done Austin Triple H,
or you couldn't have done Austin Undertaker, and you couldn't
have done Austin Angle because you know, Austin didn't have
for all that he was amazing and he was, in

(01:13:11):
my mind, the best of all time outside of The Rock,
he didn't really have a high profile wrestling match besides
The Rock.

Speaker 4 (01:13:20):
And show Sewn Michaels.

Speaker 5 (01:13:22):
You know, he had the submission match in the Iconic
match with Brett Hart, but that was a mid card match.
So it's just like you had the Trifactor with the Rock,
you had the initial title victory over Sean Michaels, but
given like how over he was and he missed WrestleMania sixteen,
like Wrestling eighteen, just seemed like a missed opportunity with

(01:13:42):
guys like Taker Angle or like, in my mind, the
most the most ideal choice triple h in the main.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
Event, no doubt about it. It was just an unfortunate
waste of a moment for Austin. Nobody ever talks about it.
Nobody talks about all. Remember the Austin match with Scott Hall,
and no disrespect to Scott Hall, but you know Austin
doesn't need Scott Hall in that match. You know that
it didn't make a whole lot of sense. And you know, man,

(01:14:12):
people clamor for Austin Hogan and I just say to them,
you know, and even Austin says, and he had Hogan
on his podcast and asked him why we never did
business together, and Austin said he wasn't in the right headspace,
and you know he wasn't. You know, he kind of
regrets it, but he doesn't know if that would have
been the case, if it would have come out to

(01:14:32):
be a good match because of their styles and that
again of whatever. When he says headspace, I'm assuming that
he was all left up from I don't know whatever
divorce he was on or that. You know, he was
frustrated with creative and things like that. So you know what,
maybe it's better left to our imaginations. In video games,
rather than actually having it come out, because Hogan and
Rock certainly tore the house down with just their their

(01:14:54):
pacing and telling a story inside the ring. But all right,
well back to the current product. A couple more things
to ask you about before we close things out is, uh, well,
I don't know how we didn't talk about this yet
and I haven't got your opinion. What do you think
about Buddy Murphy joining this group, this yet unnamed group
with Monnayett Messiah in the aop Well.

Speaker 5 (01:15:13):
I think everything about the money name Messiah is amazing.
I think this is the best seth Rawlins has been ever,
and that's saying something given how big of a rock
star he was for pretty much all of twenty eighteen
and twenty nineteen. He feels the most natural in this role.
Everything feels organic, and I love the fact that Buddy

(01:15:34):
Murphy is now going to get the rub from seth
Rawlins obviously, like we've seen them together for what seven
minutes in total of on screen, But the first thing
I saw when I looked at these two standing beside
each other and.

Speaker 4 (01:15:46):
The way that Buddy Murphy was like kind.

Speaker 5 (01:15:48):
Of almost looking up an ideal, like you know, like
mesmerizing over Seth Rawlins. I was just like, man, this
could be a Triple H Randy Orton thing two point zero.

Speaker 4 (01:16:00):
Obviously I'm jumping.

Speaker 5 (01:16:01):
Way ahead of way ahead of a game here, but
I mean it feels like an evolution type thing where
you know, you have the vet in Triple H grooming
the young lion, you know his predecessor, and like, I
just think that this is the type of fashion that's
been missing from w for a long long time. You
have the established bona fide star, you have the hired henchman,

(01:16:25):
the heavies, and then you have an up and comer
who's getting groomed by the legit star. And obviously that's
the tall pass to expect of Rawlins and Murphy to
fall in the sets of Triple H and Randy Orton.
But I think given how good Rawlins has been over
the last two years, how good his current character is
as the money a messiah, and how much untapped potential

(01:16:46):
Buddy Murphy has, I could see something in the future
along those lines.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
This could be one of the best moves that this
money n Roll makes is bringing Buddy Murphy in. Obviously,
seth rollinds the transition to back to heel and aligning
with the AOP Monday Night Messiah. He's he's really just
all gears are clicking right now, he is. We're cooking
with gas and I loving it. We do, I think

(01:17:14):
the fans do, and they the thing the key is
here too that And what I love is that the
fans don't love it so much that they're cheering because
he's not a cool heel. He's a guy that are
legitimately just kind of disgusted that he you know, he
never quite fit as a baby face. He was forcing
it with the wee stuff and and just too much
of the kumbaya. You know. Oh the fans are you guys?

(01:17:38):
You guys supported me all all this nonsensical crap that
never fits Seth Rolands character. You bring Buddy Murphy in,
a guy that can work his ass off, had three
stellar matches with Alistair Black, and Alistair Black's going places
as well. But for Seth Rollins to pick up a
guy like Buddy Murphy, I think you could say that
he sees himself in Buddy Murray because Buddy Murphy is

(01:18:01):
a guy that you he could work with anyone, he
could tell a story with anyone. How good he is
in the ring, people haven't even seen yet. And I
am a huge fan of this. This his faction continues
to grow. There's rumors about a fifth member joining. I
would stop at five personally, because it starts to get
watered down. I alluded to that in the first Nexus invasion.

(01:18:24):
While it was cool and everything else and new and
fresh and oh my god, who are these guys, it
got a little watered down because you start to lose
the individual identities of each guy and everyone just kind
of becomes a collective one. And I don't like that.
I liked every guy to have their own identity and
their own personality and be unique. And so if they're
gonna add a fifth, fine, but I would stop there.

(01:18:46):
I I'm interested to see what they named the group.
There has to be some kind of name. I haven't
heard any rumors on that yet of what it could be.
But Buddy Murphy the addition here, I think it's perfect.
This is this is also Seth's time to shine as
a true leader and not kind of co leaders that
he was in the Shield or with the authority being

(01:19:07):
with Jay and j which were nothing more than kind
of just you know, to middle schoolers at your back.
This is this is truly Seth at his best, leading
a group, holding hopefully a championship, and holding it for
a long time ultimately to just create new stars, which
is the focus and goal of most groups or even

(01:19:30):
tag teams, is to create new single stars. And I
hope that this is beneficial not just for Seth to
take him to the moon, but also for Buddy Murphy, who,
in his loss now had the biggest night of his
career joining Seth's group.

Speaker 4 (01:19:45):
Yeah, and I'm with you.

Speaker 5 (01:19:46):
And that's just a further reason as to why I
think Seth still should have been the Universal Champion, because
I think that Seth still holding that belt, tearying that,
you know, the world title of raw and now playing
second to Brock as the top heel on the brand
would have just even added more legitimacy to this group.

(01:20:06):
Like I always think back to the days where TRIPLEH
had the world heavyweight title, Flare and Batista the tag
team titles, and Orton had the ERCNELL championship. And I
could have seen that, you know, if Buddy Murphy won
the US Championship, But I don't know. I just really
when I looked at that group, them all staying there today.
It was just on Monday night, raw I just said

(01:20:28):
to myself, like, man, you know, Seth wasn't ready to
drop that Universal Championship yet he still had more time
in him, especially if he was.

Speaker 4 (01:20:35):
Going to turn heel.

Speaker 5 (01:20:37):
And now that you kind of know that he's not
going to be getting the WWE Championship for obvious reasons.
You know, he had his lengthy program with Brock and
the next person to take it off Brock will probably
be a babyface and then they'll have a lengthy run.
So knowing that Seth won't be a world champion for
at least probably another ten to twelve months does kind

(01:20:59):
of damper it a bit. And I'm kind of like,
you know, that sucks given all the momentum they've had.
But aside from that, I just think it's awesome that
Seth has, you know, an up and comer and these
heavies and AOP and like you said, it's a chance
for Seth to lead by himself, not sharing the spotlight
with either Triple H or Roman Rams or Dean Ambrose.

(01:21:20):
And as for the fifth member, I think that the
only kind of person you.

Speaker 4 (01:21:24):
Could add is another heavy.

Speaker 5 (01:21:26):
Like when I heard about that, the first guy that
came to my mind was Eric Rowan, just because you
see how effective Rowan could be in a Henchman type role,
and then they put him on his own and I
just think he's irrelevant and on a side note, I
just think his music absolutely sucks. But besides Eric Rowan,
a guy like that who does have a lot of
depth to his character and could just be another heavy

(01:21:48):
for the group, I don't really see a point in
having another guy.

Speaker 1 (01:21:53):
I agree, and I want this to breathe a little
bit with Buddy Murphy. I want him to get the
spotlight of and also have maybe Charlie Caruso come in
and ask him, well, why did you join Seth. I
want to know why. I want to know what his
motivation was. I want to know what drew him and
attracted him to Seth Rollins, because then you get an
inner working of the brainwashing that Seth is doing and

(01:22:15):
makes you disdain him even more. So I would give
this time to breathe and let let Buddy Murphy get
time to tell fans why he did what he did,
even for a couple of weeks before adding another member.
I don't want it to just be the nWo at
the end of its run, where you know, half the
roster was on the nWo and it just became watered

(01:22:35):
down nonsense. I want this to make sense, have a purpose,
and I want mission statements of why you're doing what
you're doing. I don't think that's too much to ask.
So I'm really looking forward to this. This has given
Buddy Murphy a shot in the arm as we as
we talked about in over the summer with him having
an amazing match with Roman Reigns and saying this could

(01:22:55):
be a launching point, and then having Alister Black and
Buddy Murphy tear the he Else down to TLC and
then they're following subsequent two matches and we said how
And even after he lost, I said, oh, where the
hell is Buddy Murphy going? And he just hung out
at ringside and hung out and stared and just sat
there and I said, this is interesting, right, well, what
the hell is going on? And come to find out,
he low blows the Big Show and joined Seth and

(01:23:18):
we're off to the races. Man, there's so much potential
and the best thing happening raw is Seth and the
AOP and now Alice or Buddy Murphy. So this is
this is something I look forward to. This is just
a great writing, great execution by all parties involved. So far,
I have nothing negative to say about Seth and this
group and then the progression of this story. So and

(01:23:40):
as far as Seth holding a belt, yeah, if you
look at the traditional structure of how this could play out,
because as you said, with Brock dropping into a babyface,
which is I mean, who knows at this point at
WrestleMania's say it's some uh, say it's Kevin Owens, right,
then you have to have that championship stick for a
good three to four month's minimum with the WrestleMania win,

(01:24:00):
which means Seth is looking at six months minimum to
get the belt. But WWA has funky writing. WWWA has
funky ways of getting the championship to who they want,
whether it's via their overused triple threat rules or some
other kind of nonsensical shenanigans. There are ways to get
the belt to who they want, and I don't think
they'll wait too long post WrestleMania, maybe a month or

(01:24:22):
two months to get the belt on Seth, because I
think he could have an amazing run as the champion
with all this backup. I mean, that's just a's a's
that storyline rights itself.

Speaker 5 (01:24:35):
Yeah, well, I'm sorry now that you brought up triple threat,
Like maybe that's where they're angling towards for media, because
you know, I really have no idea where brock Lesner's going.
You know, I thought that it could be Kevin Owens,
but now I'm starting to think, like, man, he kind
of lost a bit of steam and he's still kind
of entrenched with seth Rawlins, and at this juncture, I

(01:24:56):
would kind of expect him to fight seth Rawlins in
a long drawn out one on one match at wrestling,
but maybe it's them two against brock Lesner in a
triple threat match for the ww Championship. I just think
that I like Brock as champion, and that's the problem
here where I would have liked Brock on one show

(01:25:16):
as World Champion and Seth on the other. But and
that's why I'm kind of torn here because I'm one
of the few that really enjoys Brock is champion because
he brings legitimacy to the product, like an actual ass kicker,
and I do find him entertaining even you know, sometimes
his his his you know, his stick of coming with
Paul Hayman and bouncing around and Paul Hayman talks. But

(01:25:38):
even this week the Our Truth segment with was awesome.
I found that hilarious. So I'm a sucker for Brock.
Maybe it's a nostalgia thing, so I'm like, I'm not
clamoring for Seth to be the World Champion for that,
But at the same time, I much rather have had
Brock on SmackDown and The Fiend not having the Universal.

Speaker 4 (01:25:58):
Championship, which sucks because I was such a big fan
of The Fiend.

Speaker 5 (01:26:02):
But I don't know, I feel like they pulled the
rug out too quick from Seth Rawlins, and it felt
like that was going to happen as soon as he
got put on into that program with The Fiend. But
like you said, they have wacky ways to get back
the world title on Seth, which probably will be sooner
rather than later. For all the points you just brought up,
it just sucks that it will have to come at

(01:26:23):
the expense of Brock Lesner.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
It will, but Brock tends to go away after WrestleMania anyway.
I mean that that kind of seems to be Brock's scheduled.
He's got the dream schedule of being paid millions and
working part time. But he's earned it. And I love
Broxys champion too. I don't know why. I do know why.
I understand why people don't like Bronckis champion because it's
the same old, tired argument. No, he's a champion, but
he's never here, he's the absentee champion. Oh, I'm tired

(01:26:47):
of sing him with the belt. Who else would you
want to be in a main event in terms of
star value, legitimate credentials, presence than brock Lesner. You can't
make an argument for anyone else. No one even comes close.
And especially if you're trying to establish that next person
as a legitimate guy and could hold and carry the

(01:27:09):
belt and carry the ball, so to speak, down the
field for the next six months. What better person to
have them beat than brock Lessner that stamps them as
a legitimate champion rather than just kind of a fluke
or whatever. That's the best guy to have the belt
to make the next guy is brock Lesner. So I
have no problem with him being champion. I have no

(01:27:31):
problem with him not being there every week. That's the
way wrestling used to be when you didn't have the
champion there every week. That's fine with me. I don't
need them there every week. And I'm glad that they
haven't totally overdone the Fiend that I knew that they
were tempted to do, because when WWE finds something that works,
they go ooh, do it more and more and more,
and the fans love it, So let's give it to him,

(01:27:51):
give it to him, and then the fans go, well,
we've seen this, we've seen this, and he was on
SmackDown last week. Okay, you know, like it starts to
lose its value. So I'm fine with Brock not being
there every week. But one last thing I wanted to touch
you on, a touch on with you is the whole
women's division. We haven't even talked about that, are you?
What's your take? And I know that we talked a

(01:28:11):
little bit about this last week, but we had this
week Lacy Evans face Bailey in what I thought was
a very solid match. Lacy Evans, from where she was
to where she is now, is extremely well. She seems
to be extremely focused on her in ring improvements. And
I think we're seeing that she has I think come

(01:28:34):
a long way from where she was not to where
she needs to be yet, but it's certainly improved vastly,
and I enjoyed their match with her match with Bailey.
She goes on to beat Bailey and now gets a
women's championship match at the Royal Rumble. And boy, I
have mixed feelings about this because I'm still not completely

(01:28:54):
sold on Lacy Evans being a baby face. I'm not
a big fan of what they've done with Bailey Poe
her turn which is honestly nothing, which is the problem,
and she feels kind of like a an illegitimate champion
as she seems to lose every single time she's in
the ring. Well, I'm excited for the quality of the match,
I'm a bit concerned about the character building of both women.

(01:29:18):
What do you what's your take on this plus Sasha
into this whole thing.

Speaker 5 (01:29:21):
Well, I've said that I didn't really like how Sasha
has just become, you know, Bailey's sidekick. After when she returned,
she said, I'm the face of the women's division, I'm
the best here in this and that. But now she's
subsequently playing second fiddle to Bailey. I like Lacy Evans.
I liked her as soon as she debuted and started
coming out last year. You know, the baby Phace turn

(01:29:43):
has been you know, it's been a work in progress,
but I'm starting to come around to it. You know,
they're playing on real life accolades of her being a marine,
which always gets over with the crowd, and you know,
being a mother, and they play on that. I think
that it hasn't gotten enough hype this program for me
to really care about it and treat it like a
true championship match, like compared it to the counterpart show

(01:30:06):
Raw And how great that they've built up Becky versus Osca.
And to be honest, I was so sick of Becky
throughout the summer.

Speaker 4 (01:30:15):
I hate her.

Speaker 5 (01:30:16):
But now they've really pulled her back in, They've reined
her in. She's not as cocky, She's just just more
real And it's kind of she's back to the way
she was that got her over in the first place.

Speaker 4 (01:30:27):
At least in my estimation.

Speaker 5 (01:30:29):
She isn't fighting every week, which I don't need to
see from the champion, and you know, and he's drawn
me in and I'm really looking forward to Oscar versus
Becky for both in ring match quality and for the
story itself.

Speaker 4 (01:30:43):
Well.

Speaker 5 (01:30:43):
On SmackDown, you have Baileyan and Lacey, and while I
think the max quality is gonna quality is gonna be good,
I just am not really sold on. I don't think
that Lacey has jitimate chance to win. I really think
that Big the hype around it is really down, and

(01:31:04):
I think it's just kind of like a placeholder program
until they get to the eventual WrestleMania program with Bailey.
I don't know what they're gonna do with it. You know,
an early prediction for Mania, maybe a point for Bailey
could be a Lexa Bloas, but I don't know. The
SmackDown women's division has been kind of taking a hit
as of late.

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
It has it's taken second fiddle to Raw, and it's
because it's just a weird dynamic. You have this this
heel that is easily dislikable in Lacy Evans, who we
talked about this last week. I think too, is that
she hasn't changed anything she since she became a heel,
other than going over the top with talking about being
a mom and trying to be relatable. There and then

(01:31:45):
bringing up her military background everywhere she can and doing salutes,
and you know, Michael Cole going through her, you know
her resume of being in the military and what she did.
She was in the military police, and she was involved
in special forces, all this stuff, which is of course aparable,
and that's great, and I know why they hid that
as a heel and you bring it up as a
baby face. It just feels very heavy handed that they're

(01:32:06):
now just just like mentioning it every chance they get,
and I know they're trying to get her over. I'm
still not completely on board with Lacey Evans as a babyface.
I don't hate it. It's just taking time and I'm
willing to give it a chance. But I'm more concerned
not for Lacy Evans, because she has a long career
ahead of her. I'm more concerned about what they've done

(01:32:27):
with Bailey and Sasha post turns. I've said this and
I continue to say it, because what they've done is nothing.
They've done nothing with their turns other than just turn
them and hope the turn itself continues to just self
perpetuate and self propel. And it's not because they're not
doing anything. They've just mildly or not mildly. But they've

(01:32:51):
made Bailey this just kind of lukewarm champion of Yeah,
she's turned heels. She cut her hair, a couple of
people made fun of it, she's holding the belt. But
they just they don't they don't make an actual effort,
a transparent effort to put heat on her, make people
really dislike her. They haven't had that. I don't know why,
because as a heel, you want to be disliked, not

(01:33:13):
just for changing your haircut and your music. Give us
something on a weekly basis to dislike you by, and
they haven't done that other than oh they you know,
maybe she occasionally mentioned Lacy Evans' daughter. Okay, well that's
a little bit of a tired formula. Give us something
in ring that we don't like, cut a nasty promo,
get ferocious. But they just they don't do anything. That's

(01:33:35):
my whole problem is the follow up to this Lacy
Evans and Sasha Banks He'll Turn is honestly Layman's ternsment
piss poor, and that that's my problem.

Speaker 5 (01:33:45):
Well, and I think it's mostly because they haven't given
her a legitimate opponent. That the fans care about, like
since they did this brand split. Her main opponent for
the for the most part, have been Lacy Evans, who
was a heel that was kind of thrust it into
a babyface role.

Speaker 4 (01:34:03):
And Dana Brook.

Speaker 5 (01:34:05):
No one gives a shit about Dana Brook in any
you know, big capacity. Sorry I didn't mean to swear there,
but like, nobody really cares about Dana Brook. No one,
you know, cared about Lacey Evans in a babyface role.
Now they're slowly starting to come around, but all the
top light most liked babyface.

Speaker 4 (01:34:23):
Women are on Raw.

Speaker 5 (01:34:25):
You know, you have Becky Lynch there, you have Charlotte there,
even Natalia who you know, she's maybe a bit stale,
but at least she carries a pedigree and is the
veteran and is always a formidable opponent. I think it's
more to do with the lack of legit competitors on
SmackDown for Bailey and Sauce to go against than it
is them, because I liked their heel turns separately, but

(01:34:48):
I thought it was a mistake pairing them together or sorry,
putting them on the same show for this very reason,
because now if you look at the you know, maybe
the grand scheme of things hanging towards wrestlemin what do
you do with these two? You know, the most logical
option would be to have them face each other at
Vessel May, because they haven't ever done that.

Speaker 4 (01:35:08):
But what you're gonna turn one of.

Speaker 5 (01:35:09):
Them babyface again after turning heel less than six months before.
They've kind of booked themselves into the corner here, I mean,
after Lacy Evans, I don't even.

Speaker 4 (01:35:19):
Know who they're gonna pit Bailey up against.

Speaker 5 (01:35:21):
I can't see Lacey Evans actually winning the title at
Royal Rumble. And that's why, like maybe you know, maybe
Alexa Bliss, But like even beyond those two, who is
a babyface woman on SmackDown that could go up against Bailey?
And that's why I think the crowd just hasn't really
got felt heat towards Bailey because they haven't put her

(01:35:43):
up against a fan favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
They haven't And maybe it's a returning Naomi who could
come out and face Bailey. But this whole thing, Yeah,
Alexa Bliss to me would be the candidate at this point.
She should be the next in line, But I honestly,
I don't know. I don't know who Bailey who could
compete against, And I don't want it to be Sasha
Is you just alluded to It shouldn't be. We don't
need another Sasha Bailey program, please for the love of God.

(01:36:10):
But when we have this level of uncertainty in the past,
what happens is and you look at booking in WWE
in the last year, two years, honestly in the last
five years, When you have this much uncertainty and there's
no clear cut next opponent, what does WWE do. They
lean on the booking crutch of multiperson matches. That's what
I think is going to happen at WrestleMania for the

(01:36:33):
Women's Championship. And last year you could say, oh, they
did the triple threat for the women in the main event,
Well that's because they forced Charlotte in so that they
could say that she was in the first main event
ever for the women. I mean, just because they felt
that Charlotte was that level of a talent. They just
stuck her in there, even though it was really Rhonda
and Becky's program. And this year, I mean, you could
do the same thing for the SmackDown, but for a
different reason, because there's no clear cut front runner for

(01:36:56):
the championship. So I could see a multi women match,
triple threat, four way, fatal four elimination, whatever. But to me,
and I'll just close on that is I think that
that could be what's happening is when there's no clear
cut you go to a triple threat because that's just
what WWE does.

Speaker 5 (01:37:15):
Well and what and like to be fair though, even
though it's their mistake, but to be fair, what else
can they do? You know, if Ronda Rosie returns, she's
going to Raw and then she's gonna fight Baile Becky
in a rematch or quote unquote rematch because like you said,
Charlotte was in that match, but you know, Charlotte's on Raw,
Oscar's on Raw. You know, there's no real, like big

(01:37:37):
level name female wrestler for Bailey to go up against,
like Alexiblis is the only one. But even her, like,
I don't know why they pulled the plug on her
as a main event female wrestler. Maybe her injuries have
you know, limited her ability to fight in singles competition,
but like I'm looking up and down the SmackDown women's
roster and like maybe Mandy Rose, you know, but you know,

(01:37:59):
she's entrench in that Otis angle and I don't think
they could skyrocket her up the ranks that fast.

Speaker 4 (01:38:05):
And I think it will be what you just said, maybe.

Speaker 5 (01:38:08):
A triple threat with Becky Bailey, Sasha and Alexa blizz
I really don't know what they're going with here, and
as a result, you're you're maybe gonna see Charlotte and
Oscar be put in throwaway matches. I just feel like
they loaded up the women's division way too hard on
the raw side. You've alluded to it a bunch of

(01:38:28):
times that Charlotte has been in a holding pattern. Maybe
they have something bigger planned for her, like a Shane
a Basler or something for WrestleMania in a cross branded
match that would make sense to me. And then you
have Becky and Charlotte and a returning Ronda. But again,
then that still leaves the SmackDown Women's Champion on the
back burner. And it's too bad because you're gonna see

(01:38:51):
Bailey suffer from it when what was originally a really
good heel turn.

Speaker 1 (01:38:57):
Yeah, you're gonna see Bailey three is gonna be the
victim here, and it's not fair to Bailey and you said,
you know, well what else could they do? And well,
I mean what you do is either a you could
propose a trade, you could bring somebody from NXT to
the roster, or you could just take a chance and
try to build around somebody that you feel could be

(01:39:19):
the next big babyface. I mean, you just take a chance.
And that's what it always is, is taking a chance
at who that next person could be. And you know,
I know that there's limited time between now Mania, but
take a chance that I mean, you're always taking chances.
Let's see what they can do instead of having this
the crutch of multi person matches, which to me, look,

(01:39:41):
I'm not of the of the mindset that the main
events of WrestleMania, the title matches should be triple threats.
I love one on ones. To me, that's what it
should be and which should always it always should be
at WrestleMania, not always as a whole, but to me,
at WrestleMania, because that's your end all be all, that
is the end game that you've been building towards all year,

(01:40:02):
and it should be wrestlering against wrestler B and oftentimes
it's A, B, C and D and A and B
and c and they just do that so much to
get everybody on the show to make sure that it's
as long of a show as possible. I'm just I'm
not the fan or the mindset of belief of that.
But anyway, anything else that we didn't touch on or

(01:40:23):
that you wanted to follow up on, well.

Speaker 5 (01:40:26):
Just because I won't talk to you before then, I
know I pretty much know who you think for the
men's because we've talked about inn auseum for two months.
But who are your two favorites or picks or early
predictions to win each Royal Rumble?

Speaker 1 (01:40:42):
So this is extreme. This is not an exciting pick
for the men's obviously. I have again Kevin Owens and
Roman Reigns top two in the men's and in the women's.
I have somebody that's not even currently on the roster
of a run Rowsey. This is my number one, which
I think she has a strong chance of returning at

(01:41:04):
the Rumble and then challenging Becky Lynch at WrestleMania to
get her revenge on Becky Lynch. Again, I could be
way off and she has no interest in coming back,
but to me that makes the most sense. And I
mean on the SmackDown side, I don't know of anybody,
but on the NXT side, you could have somebody coming in.

(01:41:26):
I mean you could have Shanda Basler. I mean there
are women on the NXT roster that could transfer themselves
up to SmackDown to face Bailey. And I think that
an NXT Shannon Basler is probably my number two. I
really think that that could be the case. And so
those are my top two.

Speaker 4 (01:41:45):
Yeah, I'm with you.

Speaker 5 (01:41:46):
For me, I think it's a foregone conclusion that it's
gonna be Roman. But if I have to pick another favorite, I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:41:52):
Gonna go with Drew. I don't know it.

Speaker 5 (01:41:54):
He's probably me more of a fanboy, but I think
that just how they've been booked recently, I could see
that Drew maybe being a dark horse or I think
he's at minimum gonna be a big impact in the rumble.

Speaker 4 (01:42:06):
And on the women's side, like a part of me
wants to.

Speaker 5 (01:42:09):
Say Charlotte because she hasn't won it yet and we
know what the w W higher ups think of her,
But I don't think that she could really challenge Becky again,
hope to god not. So for that reason, I don't
have her. I think the favorite is Ronda Rousey like
you and Shana Basler would be my second.

Speaker 4 (01:42:26):
Pick as well. But one dark horse that I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:42:30):
Actually see them pulling the trigger on, but who maybe
could entice them to at least make some noise and
shine in the rumble is Mandy Rose.

Speaker 1 (01:42:41):
Yes, I could see that absolutely being the case. I
think that Vince has had his eye literally and figuratively
on Mandy Rose for quite some time. And yeah, I
think she do. I think she's going in the rumble. No,
but she can make an impact. She could maybebe one
of the final four. Mandy Rose is somebody that you
need to keep your eye on, and I'm sure to
the most straight males listening to me is not gonna

(01:43:03):
be a problem. But literally we should keep an eye
on her because she has been somebody that's slowly rising
on the SmackDown prominence and somebody that I think will
sneak her way into the title picture. Maybe even it's
like kind of the fourth wheel in a multi women match.
If the SmackDown Women's Championship is defended at the next

(01:43:24):
few pay per views before Mania, I don't expect her
to win the SmackDown Women's Championship. But I think I
think she'd be a great heel champion. There's certainly some positive,
there's some possibility, there's some potential there, but I don't
think she's ready yet. I don't need to see it.
I don't need to rushed, but I think in twenty twenty,
sometime in twenty twenty, we will see a Mandy Rose
championship run, and I'm all for it. I think that

(01:43:46):
that could be a cool deal. So listen, Edy, great
talking with you, and I know that we are scheduled
tentatively to do a massive all hands on deck co
hosted show for the Post warl Rumble Show, which is
either going to be taking place a Monday or Tuesday following,
So man, I'm really looking forward to that. But before

(01:44:07):
let everyone know how they can get in touch with
you if they want to.

Speaker 5 (01:44:10):
You can get in touch with me at A to
mark or twenty five on Twitter. And I just hope
you like hockey if you plan on following.

Speaker 1 (01:44:17):
Me absolutely and looking forward to a month or a month,
a week from tomorrow or a week from Tuesday, being
able to get all troops on board and be able
to discuss what is going to be I have that
feeling and extremely noteworthy, probably slightly ran filled, but also
praiseworthy show of the Royal Rumble that just is the
WWE product in twenty twenty. So I'm looking forward to it,

(01:44:40):
and we will be talking very very soon, I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (01:44:44):
Yeap Matt, talk then and enjoy the Rumble.

Speaker 1 (01:44:46):
All right, yeah you too. Take care,

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