Harnessing the Power of the Five Elements in Your Practice and in Your Life

Register for my Yin Masterclass: Creating Yin Sequencing Poetry.
Join me live on September 11, 2023 at 2 pm CT (USA) or request the recording after 9/11 at https://yoga.mandyryle.com/creating-yin-sequencing-poetry/

Join us as we unravel the intriguing five element theory with Dr. Melissa West, a pioneer of Yoga on YouTube since 2009. Learn how to apply this theory to your everyday life and to your Yin Yoga practice. This podcast will provide some great insights for you on how we might live more in harmony with the seasons and throughout each stage of life.

As our enlightening dialogue progresses, we navigate through the fascinating complexities of the fire element season and its unique divergence from Ayurveda. Armed with Dr. West's insightful knowledge, we'll shed light on how these elemental associations can enhance not just our Yoga practice, but our overall well-being. But it doesn't stop there! We also dive into the practicalities of the five element theory, discussing how it can inform our personality traits and elemental constitutions.

And for all you budding Yoga teachers out there, we cap things off with some invaluable tips on teaching yin authentically. So, ready for a transformative journey guided by the wisdom of Dr. Melissa West? Tune in and let's explore the power of the five element theory together!

Register for my Yin Masterclass: Creating Yin Sequencing Poetry. Live on September 11, 2023 at 2 pm CT(USA) or request the recording after 9/11 https://yoga.mandyryle.com/creating-yin-sequencing-poetry/

Find and Follow Melissa West:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drmelissawest/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@drmelissawest

Recommended Resources:
Holding Space: A Guide to Supporting Others While Remembering to Take Care of Yourself First
Melissa's Book: https://melissawest.com/book/ 
Get your own chart of the 5 Elements

Let's connect! Follow me on:
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Free Resources:
Master the Yin Yoga Pose Repertoire: 7 Day Email Course
Introduction to Pain Care Yoga
Practice Gallery Workbook - 6 go to sequences with pictorial instructions

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Yin Yoga Podcast.
I'm your host, mandy Ryle, forthis week.
I am very excited to share aconversation that I had with Dr
Melissa West.
As you will discover in theinterview, melissa has such a
wealth of knowledge about YinYoga, teaching Yoga and even the
business of Yoga.
We sat down to discuss fiveelement theory, how to apply it

(00:22):
to your Yin practice and how itcan be extended into your life
for living in harmony with theseasons and the stages of life.
Melissa is an incredibleresource, also for those of us
who make our living teachingYoga, as she was really at the
vanguard of offering highquality Yoga and meditation on

(00:45):
YouTube, having started herchannel way back in the dark
ages of YouTube in 2009,.
She now reaches almost 75,000subscribers with her weekly Yoga
and meditation instruction.
I have to admit that I am not aYin teacher who has ever really
connected with energetic theory.
As you know, I lean a littlebit more toward the science and

(01:09):
evidence based practice side ofthings, so I was really excited
to see how I might be able toapply these concepts from
Chinese traditional medicineinto my practice and teaching in
a way that feels authentic, andI was really inspired in this
conversation with Melissa abouthow each of us, as teachers, has

(01:30):
something so incredibly specialto share and that we don't have
to be everything all the time.
We can go with what we are mostpassionate about and leave all
of the rest in the very capablehands of other amazing yoga
teachers.
So I'm really excited for youto hear all of this great

(01:50):
information that Melissa has tooffer.
Speaking of offers, at the endof the interview, melissa tells
us about an awesome opportunityto really get the experience of
practicing with five elementtheory on her YouTube channel.
It's totally free and sheactually has a series that is
starting just as we speak.
As this episode is beingpublished, I also have a great

(02:15):
opportunity this fall for thoseof you who are looking for a
little bit more guidance onbuilding sequences.
This is one of the more opaqueaspects of Yin yoga, whether
you're teaching it or you'repracticing it.
So I am offering a webinarcreating Yin sequencing poetry

(02:39):
on Monday, september 11th, inthe afternoon, and I'm really
excited to give you some of thenuts and bolts, information and
strategy on how you build thatsequence, so that you can really
tap into that magic of a reallyamazing embodied sequence.
So please scroll into thoseshow notes.

(03:01):
Go ahead and click the link toregister.
It just takes a second, andthat way you will be registered
for my free webinar on September11th.
If, however, you're listeningto this episode after September
11th, no worries.
Hit that same link and thenyou'll be able to register for
me to email you the webinarrecording.

(03:23):
Okay, without further delay,here is this great interview
with Melissa West.
Welcome to this interview withDr Melissa West.
Melissa is a yoga therapisttrained by Phoenix Rising, where
she learned an integrativeapproach to bridge the gap

(03:43):
between yoga and talk therapy.
She has a PhD in communicationsand cultural studies and taught
in a university setting forover 10 years.
Melissa is one of the OG yogateachers on YouTube, having
started her channel way back in2009.
She now reaches over 74,000subscribers with weekly yoga

(04:06):
meditation and yoga educationvideos.
She is also the author of a newbook Five Yin Yoga Practicing
and Teaching in Harmony with theSeasons, and that is what we're
going to learn all about today.
So welcome, melissa.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Thank you.
Thanks so much for having me,Mandy.
It's a real honor to be a guesthere on your show.
I feel like it's just such agreat synergy for our topics to
be together.
I just love your podcast.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Thank you, melissa.
So the first question I have toask you is not quite related to
five element theory, which weare going to dive into in depth,
but I have sort of been awareof you for a little while
because we were both in anonline membership together, and

(04:56):
so I was already familiar withyou before we connected, which
is like how this crazy onlineworld is anymore.
It's kind of nuts, but you know.
So I already had kind of animpression of you based on your
avatar, I guess who you were inthat membership.
You're so generous, so givingjust tons of energy for everyone

(05:21):
.
And then notice, I had a lookat your YouTube channel and I
see that, first of all, you'vebeen around for like ever.
Second of all, you put up avideo right Like once a week you
know I mean you started yourpresence on YouTube before even

(05:43):
yoga was a thing on YouTube, Ithink.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, it really was.
We were early adopters, forsure.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, I mean it's really, it's kind of.
I mean that alone is a reallyinteresting thing to me, like
you're an interesting person totalk to for that, because you've
seen all of these stages.
But my question is how do youstay so motivated and committed

(06:10):
and devoted to your community onYouTube like that?
Like how do you keep showing uplike that week after week?

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, that's a good question.
Oh my gosh, I feel myselfgetting teary when you, as soon
as you ask that question.
I feel myself getting reallyemotional when you ask that
question because it's a reallysimple answer, because it has
been like we're coming up on 14years now and to put out a video

(06:47):
every week.
It could be a grind, right, andsometimes it is a grind, yeah,
but I just think about there area few people that I think about
that really rely on that videobeing there.
I mean, like that it is a lifechannel for them, for their

(07:12):
mental health and probably theirphysical health too.
And I know that you know I don'thave the biggest audience on
YouTube, but I know that thepeople that practice my videos
have been guided to me for areason and we have a special

(07:34):
connection and it's become likea responsibility that goes
beyond myself now as well, likemy husband and I work together
on this and he films it all.
So it's like our marriagedepends on it now and I have an
assistant as well in Serbia andshe's like my work wife and her

(08:01):
family depends on me as well nowtoo.
Wow, so I think that you knowit just gets bigger than
yourself and it's not about youanymore.
So does that make sense?
I think it does.
I think that's how it's.
Just because the yoga withMelissa and the YouTube thing

(08:25):
and stuff it.
You know there are a lot ofother ways to sustain a family
or to earn a living.
That would be easier, I guess.
Or you know, yeah, yeah, butthis is something that it's like

(08:46):
we can't.
It's bigger than us now we can'twe can't stop now, in a way, is
something and thankfully it'ssomething that we can do and
continue to do, for I mean, Ihave no intentions of retiring
because we will grow as ouraudience grows in ages.
Yeah to, we will.
We can grown, adapt with themas well, and I'm so grateful for

(09:09):
that.
Yeah, so it's a bigger purposething, which is really cool.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
That's awesome, thank you.
Thank you for that, because Ifeel the grind you know, even
just of a podcast, right, inaddition to my clients and
everything.
And I have to say that I agreewith this sense that you, and
maybe on YouTube at least,people comment and like on a

(09:38):
podcast, you don't know who'slistening, you don't, you don't
get that data, you don't get alittle shot of them, you know a
little picture.
But in my mind, I see thisaudience, right, I see these
people who resonate with this,right, and so it is.

(09:58):
It's for, though, that kind offormless again, that avatar
that's, it's just a part of me.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
You know, yeah, I think it's really helpful to put
it into form and I think maybeeven just for your listeners to
do that with a story, maybe astory or two.
But the one that really sticksout in my mind and the one that
really keeps me going is that Ihave a student and his mother

(10:28):
died when he was very young andhe that's when he started
practicing yoga with me and Ijust feel that from the other
side, his, his mom, connected usand I know that he still
struggles, you know, in manyways in this lifetime and I just

(10:52):
have to think about him when I,you know, when it feels hard,
but I have, you know, I have somany students.
It was the same even when Ithought about when I knew I had
to stop teaching in personclasses because I was being
called to take yoga with Melissaonline, full, full time.

(11:12):
It was this, it was I justcouldn't because I just loved.
It was so hard for me to do that, because I just loved my
students so much.
You know we had babies together, we lost family members
together.
Like you know, the whole cycleof life, right.
Birth, death, illness, right.
You go through that with yourstudents and it's no different

(11:34):
in the online world, and youhave those students, and it's
really important for me or thisis a way that makes it really
human is to bring those studentsto mind.
When I'm looking into thecamera, like even right now, I'm
thinking about somebody whomight be listening to it, right,

(11:55):
because that's the way to keepit human.
Otherwise, it's just, it is agrind, you know.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yes, that's cool, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Okay, so here's what everybodycame from.
I just had to ask that questionbecause I am amazed and
inspired by what you do and howyou've done it for so long.
So, I want to ask you about yourbook.
So you just recently publishedyour book Five Yen Yoga

(12:24):
Practicing and Teaching inHarmony with the Seasons.
And I have to say, having beenin the Yen world for quite some
time, I am familiar with thefive elements, especially in
yoga, and we still have thosesame things in Ayurveda.
But I'm wondering if you couldjust give us a primer on what
five element theory is.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, so it's big and there's a lot to it, and so I
would encourage people to notfeel like they have to take this
all in at once, but to maybejust let it wash over them and
to know that they can come backto it, and to know that five
element theory is a theory ofthe seasons and it's a theory of

(13:11):
movement, and so to know thatthey have all the time in the
world and that they can comeback to it each year and each
season comes to them.
So I always like to start withwater element season and winter,
because that's the season whenyou're gathering the energy and

(13:32):
it's the most Yen season.
So it's a beautiful season tostart with within yoga, and so
that's the season of winter.
It's the season of the kidneysand the bladder meridian, it's
the season when we're gatheringour energy.
The color is blue or black and,yeah, that's just a beautiful

(13:55):
season when all of nature isstill, there's no life, but it's
a time to really gather thoseenergy reserves.
And from winter, we know we gointo spring, which is wood
element season.
The color is green, the organsare the liver and the

(14:16):
gallbladder and we know inspring things, the movement is
up, like the bulbs come out ofthe ground, they spring up, and
it's a time of year where thingshappen like it happens in
bursts.
It's not like necessarilysmooth, but bursts of energy.
And, yeah, the color is greenand we've got this just kind of

(14:41):
burst of energy after thedormancy of winter.
And then you go into fireelement season in summer and the
color there would be likeorange or red, and this is the
most young season of the year.
We're just coming out of thisseason and fire element season I

(15:03):
really do think, for those ofyou who are familiar with
Ayurvedas, is quite differentfrom fire and Ayurveda, and I
think it's really good to putAyurveda aside when you're
studying fire element theory.
Okay, so it's, it's like thefullness, it's like expansion
would be the direction, andthink of it like when the

(15:23):
flowers are in full bloom orwhen the sun is its most vibrant
midday, and then we go into theseason that we're in right now,
which is earth element season,and now you go from yang to the
balance between yin and yang, soyou start to get some yin back.
So you think about in latesummer, like the August,

(15:45):
september time, where the daysstart to get a little bit
shorter things.
The energy gets to be a littlebit more gentle, the light
starts to drop in the sky a bitand the fruit starts to come out
on the trees and things justtend to be a little bit more
gentle.
That time of year, the cropsare coming to completion, we

(16:07):
starting to bring in the harvestand then we end the cycle with
metal element season.
Sorry, so there's like so muchto say with each one, but in
earth element season, your, yourorgans are the stomach and the
spleen.
So stomach, you take in andreceive the spleen transforms it

(16:27):
.
And in fire element season,your main organs are your heart
and your small intestine.
So, moving on to metal elementseason, this is the final season
.
You're in autumn, you're withyour lungs and your large
intestines, and this is likeautumn time, when all the leaves
are falling from the trees, sothe direction is down.

(16:50):
And this is when we are puttingthings down and we're preparing
for winter, we're preparing forrest.
It's like we're drawing thingsin and we're letting things go.
So it's like in when we take inthat harvest, then what we do,
you know, in a great times wemight like can things and put

(17:11):
things up so that we have enoughto get through the long winter
again.
So it's a whole cycle that wego through and we all they're
all it's movement, right, it'senergy, they're not really
things.
So we all have all this energyin us.
We tend to have like more, likethree dominant in us.

(17:31):
Yeah, that, I mean.
I think that gives you a goodoverview to start.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, no, that's helpful, thank you, and that's
like you said.
I I kept trying to sort ofequate it with Ayurveda or even.
You know I was thinking aboutthe values More from the yoga
tradition, right, the Apana andthe Prana and the Samana, and

(18:01):
you know I see little elementsof that too.
Right, like the Apana is thatdownward energy, right, the sort
of digesting, eliminatingenergy, and then the Prana is
the rising, but I see otherthings in there as well.
Do you think it's most helpful?
Then?
You know you mentioned Ayurveda, but like to just not try to

(18:23):
compare it to what we know fromthe yoga tradition and sort of
think of it on its own.
Let it stand on its own.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
I do.
I think it's best just to putit aside Because, yeah, I really
do.
Okay, yeah, because I came.
When I came into Five ElementTheory.
I came with some some knowledgeof Ayurveda and tried to look
at both systems and map them.
And I and also, as a being wellversed in Five Element Theory

(18:52):
too, people come in with theirpreconceived ideas of fire and
everything that they know aboutPitta.
They just they don't map ontoeach other.
Yeah, it's nice to just look atthis as its own system.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Okay, that's helpful.
Thank you, okay, and I mean,like anyone who's been in yoga
long enough, I think, has tohave a real love and affection
for models.
You know like we love ourmodels in yoga.
We love our values and ourKoshas and our Chakras.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, it's, this is.
This is another one that soundsfamiliar, but it's just another
model that we can use tounderstand ourselves and our
students.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, I think if we I think if we get too complex
about it and try to think abouthow they all map on top of each
other, then we get back in ourheads rather than staying in our
bodies, which I think is wherewe want to be when we're
practicing yoga.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, yes, great Okay .
So how are the seasons, or thefive elements, then related to
Yin yoga?
Because I, if I'm not mistaken,the five element theory.
This is coming from Chinesetraditional philosophy,
traditional medicine, right, andthat is also ostensibly the

(20:19):
genesis of Yin yoga.
So how, how are they related?

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Well, I think they make a good pairing because when
I trained in Yin yoga, I knowthat we like to pull and
pressurize the tissues of themeridians and they affect the
organs.
And so when we come into ourYin yoga poses, oftentimes we're

(20:46):
for example, maybe when we'restarting our practice we're
doing like a wide knee, child'stoes, for example, and in that
pose maybe we're pulling andpressurizing the tissues of the
liver meridian, for example.
So when we're doing that we'rewe're attempting to impact the

(21:08):
liver organ system.
So that would be part of thewood element organ system.
So we're just we're just sortof taking that a little bit
further.
Looking at, in traditionalChinese medicine, the five
element theory is it's like amodel, a way of studying

(21:35):
traditional Chinese medicine.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Okay, yeah, Okay.
So for example and I'm going toprobably mess this up, but I'm
trying to figure out how thisworks practically for me For
example, the wood element, andfor some reason, I've identified

(22:03):
that the wood element issomething that I'm interested in
influencing today in mypractice.
So, obviously, like you said,you're going to choose the poses
which impact the meridiansconnected to that particular
organ system.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Right.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Right.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Well, so okay.
So there are many ways that youcould do that.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
So why don't we stay in the season that we're in?
The time that people arelistening to this Perfect, so
maybe it will be a little morerelevant.
So when people are listening tothis, it's earth element season
.
So the organs of earth elementseason are the stomach and the
spleen.
So there's a few different waysyou can go about this.

(22:49):
And I would say, when you'refirst starting with five element
theory, you would start verysimply and just affect the
stomach and the spleen meridiansand really understand them as
best possible.
Just really get to know thestomach and spleen meridians.
So the stomach receives andtakes in and holds and absorbs,

(23:18):
and then the spleen transformsand gives you energy.
And there's so many ways youcould work with the themes.
And what I've done in the bookis if you have a pose that
affects well, there's lots ofways that I've done in the book
but say for the stomach meridian, and then you have a little
reflection.
So if you're a teacher, you canjust take the poses that I've

(23:41):
done in the book and read thereflection.
It's really nice and simplethat way For a lot of my
students just open the book andtake a few poses and go that way
.
So also with five elementtheory.
As I said, it's a theory ofmovement and balance.
So you can also look at whatbalances earth elements.

(24:08):
So people who have a strongearth element in them are tend
to be prone to worry, and so oneof the ways that we can balance
that is with wood element.
So if you think about earth, itcan tend like actual earth.
It can tend to erode with windor water If it doesn't have

(24:34):
actual tree roots going into itright, or canopy of a tree
keeping the water from erodingit.
So then we can actually go towood element poses.
Also, poses for the liver andgallbladder are very good for
creating.
It's called control.

(24:55):
It's the control cycle forcreating balance for earth
element that can be in excess,too much worry, for example.
So we can start very simply andwe can go as complex as you
want.
Or if earth element is deficient, for example, then fire feeds

(25:18):
earth, like the.
If you have a fire, the embersof the fire what do you call?
That at the base of the fireactually creates earth.
The ash creates the earth,right.
So then you can use fireelement poses, poses for your
heart and small intestines, tocreate energy for earth.

(25:39):
If there's not.
So, for example, if you'restruggling with receiving or not
having enough nourishment orissues with digestion, you might
back up and do some fireelement poses.
So by that I mean poses foryour heart, so you can go back
to connecting with your joy andlove of life.

(26:00):
Or small intestines.
Small intestines, all aboutreceiving, absorbing right the
nutrients, so like there's, justthere's, it's really quite
endless.
And that's why I say maybe youknow, if you're listening to
this the first time, it's likewhew, so much information right.
So that's why I always tell mystudents that infinite time I

(26:23):
love Vondescara rallies calledinfinite time.
The teachings are absorbed withinfinite time and no ambition.
So that's like the principlesof being like let's be still,
let's stay for a while, let'sallow ourselves to absorb these
slowly over time, slowly overtime.

(26:44):
And each season, earth, like anearth element season, will
reveal more of her secrets to us.
And same as we go into metalelement season, same as we go
into water element season,that's the beauty of five
element theory.
As we spend time with we arenature, as we spend time in
nature, as we're interdependentwith the elements and the

(27:08):
movement within us, we will moreand more and more will be
revealed to us.
And it just makes her abeautiful practice, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
That that's helpful.
Thank you, Because I have oftenfelt a little bewildered when
I've sort of.
I don't spend a lot of time onmeridians and organs as a Yin
teacher.
I'm more interested in thescience of Yin, and so when I've

(27:38):
tried to get a little bit moreeducation, understanding into
elements, organs, meridians andall of these things, I do find
it overwhelming.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Interesting, I do.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah, I do find it overwhelming.
It feels to me like a lot ofmemorization, which is weird
because I don't mind memorizingscientific stuff.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
but maybe it's just where your aptitude is.
Yeah, I don't know if it's atpoles, because I can like this
to me.
I don't know.
I feel like this.
Maybe it's not too woo-woo, butI just feel like this is so
easy for me.
Maybe I had a past life withthis or something like that.
Yeah, I'll read and study themore biology based stuff and

(28:21):
it's like okay, I get it, but ittires me when I do it.
It's just it doesn't resonatewith me on the same level.
So I feel like I totallyresonate with what you're saying
, because like it's almost likewe're the yin and yang for each
other for these things, becauseto me I just get it.
When I teach this, it makes somuch sense, I'm able to be so in
my body with it.
It's like the poetry of thebody.

(28:42):
But like if I were to try toteach your way, it just it
doesn't.
It's not like authentic for me.
It just would be like I wouldbe having to exert so much
effort to do it.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's, I think that is so
.
I love that you said that right, because I always do have this
little bit like feeling like,yeah, I'm a yin teacher, but I
don't even think about themeridians.
That's not even remotely how Iplan a class, execute a class,
and isn't that great.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yes, right, because we all taught the same way.
How boring that would be.
And it's great that we havepeople like you that are so into
the anatomy side of things, andthen people like me who are
really more into the traditionalChinese medicine meridians,
organs and then there's peoplethat are more into the

(29:35):
meditative side of it, andthere's so many directions you
can take it.
That's what's so amazing aboutit too.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Well, and I like what you said about how, when you
teach this way, it feels easyand you can connect with it in
your body.
You know, right, like what agreat test for a teacher like
still discovering, like what ismy niche.
What makes me special Is to say, can I like teach this from

(30:08):
within, from each cell of mybody?
Does this feel easy?
Does this feel accessible?
Because I know exactly what youmean when you feel it in your
body, like the biology, I canfeel you know Like I'm thinking
about cells, right?
So no, that's really goodadvice for well, for all
teachers really, I mean for evenreally experienced teachers

(30:30):
like us, but especially ifyou're still kind of finding
your voice, yeah, and I thinkalso for experienced teachers
too, when you're dropping intosomething new, like when I
started this, it reallyresonated with me.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
It took me, it took me years to write this book.
Right, like I'm trying to thinkof how long it took me to, like
I wrote it with my students, soI was teaching it and writing
it, and I'm trying to think of,like, how long it took to write
not just the revision stages,but we, you know, we were

(31:11):
working it in courses and thingsin my community, probably for
about three years, you know.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
It does not surprise me.
It is a very comprehensiveguide to the topic, very
comprehensive guide Like.
When I read through it I waslike, ooh, I guess Again.
I mean, what I perceive fromyou is this boundless, limitless
energy.
It almost seems like that youhave for this creativity and the

(31:40):
creation and the.
It's impressive.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah, so I have a lot of water element and wood
element in me.
So the water is, there's a lotof wisdom in water and a lot of
intellectual energy, a lot ofinsight.
Wisdom is water, right, so thatmakes sense for water, and then
wood is the energy that bringsit out too, so what you're

(32:08):
saying makes sense.
Okay, I don't see myself thatway, but you know.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
You know I get it.
I totally get it so okay.
You brought something up,though, that I kind of wanted to
tease out anyway in thisconversation, which is that what
I noticed a lot in your bookand in your videos online is
that self-compassion is a strongtheme for you, and there was a

(32:45):
quote in your book where yousaid instead of what's wrong
with me, we can ask how can Iturn the five, turn to the five
elements for clues on how tolook after myself with kindness
and compassion, and you know, Ilove this idea that we're gonna

(33:07):
identify like this is just me,this is my constitution, right?
So how can I look to this modelto learn how to better show up
for myself?
So what I'm wondering is if youcan give some examples of how

(33:33):
we might use that, even maybenot even in a yoga practice,
right?
Maybe just on a day when you'refeeling depleted or overdone or
too fiery or too watery, orthis is all right, I have a
great example.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Okay, because I think this is huge, because this was
one thing that really struck meabout five element theory when I
first started studying it wasthat it was like a lot of sort
of medical approaches in thatand I'm not finding the exact
right word for it, but that itwas.
You know what it does.
There's a great word for thistoo.

(34:09):
I wish I could come up with it.
More clinical, perhaps it'sclinical in that what it does is
it diagnoses what's wrong withyou.
Got it, got it, yeah, and thatreally rubbed me the wrong way.
And what I'm really proud of inthe book is that I really don't
think it has that tone at all.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
So and what I love about five element theory, in
the way that I approached it andbrought it forward, is that it
really has helped me to acceptwho I am.
So I did just explain that Ihave a lot of water in me and a
lot of wood in me and that.
So water is winter and iskidneys and bladder, and it's a.

(34:53):
Kidneys are about your Jing Chi, your source, energy.
So it's a lot about buildingthe energy reserves, right, and
then liver and gallbladder.
It's that time in spring wherethe energy is going up and
you're it's bursting, right.
So when I think I'll exposemyself here, what I tend to do

(35:18):
is work in bursts Like phew, offshe goes, she gets.
I get really inspired and I'llgo and I'll work really hard.
And I do this all the time inmy life in various ways, like
I'll get really excited aboutsomething and I'll just put all

(35:39):
my energy in it and then I gasout, you know, and then and then
I go back and I so if it was atree, it would need water at its
roots again, and then I'mreally good at retreating and
watering the roots and I do thatthrough restorative yoga, yoga,

(36:01):
nidra, yin yoga, you know, andI do this again and again and
again in my life and instead ofbeating myself up for that again
like geez, like why do you dothat all the time?
You, just, you, just you, justyou work in these patterns of
phew and then go back and youhave to retent to the roots.

(36:22):
I realize that that's my nature,you know, like I'm not really
sort of a steady, steady, steadyperson.
I'm more like, yeah, I'm gonnahave this burst of inspiration,
I'm gonna come up with a greatplan of how to do it, I'm gonna
do it, and then I'm gonna needto retreat and give myself the

(36:43):
energy so that I can go out anddo it again.
And that's how I've always been.
You know, and the really greatthing to do in your life is to
surround yourself with peoplewho balance that energy right.
So I'm married to somebody whohas a lot of earth, so that

(37:04):
earth holds my water right Ifyou think about the earth on the
river banks holds the water.
And my work wife, like I talkabout she's earth too she holds
me really well too.
So you know, it's reallyimportant to be around people
that support you and are not notworking against your elemental

(37:27):
constitution too.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah, the counterbalance Like kind of how
you were mentioning.
You know, if there's too muchof something, some element, you
could do a pose that couldbalance it right and your
practice, people can serve thisfunction as well.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Exactly, and you see it really well with like in
friendships and stuff too.
Like all often find myselfattracted to fire element people
, for example, because my woodwill feed their fire, but it
doesn't necessarily always turnout that great right, Because
they deplete me.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
So yeah, Okay, all right, okay, okay, so let me
follow that up then.
So how?
I mean, you've kind of answeredthis, but let's get a little
bit more granular with this ideaof how the elements relate to
or contribute to personality orpersonal traits.

(38:25):
You know, you mentioned thatfire person kind of depletes you
, or that the earth person isvery nurturing.
Yeah yeah, yes, so, and maybeyou know, on that note too, like
for example, you had me fillout a little- quick thing.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, let's talk about you for a bit.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Let's talk about me.
I'm not very comfortable withthat, but sure, but you know, so
you had me through the, I don'tknow what you call it.
Just get my chart right Of mypercentages right, yeah, and you
know, it seemed like everythingwas kind of in the same zone
low teens percentage wise withthe exception of earth.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Earth.
You had a lot of earth in you,which is interesting because in
talking to you and this is justone test, but in talking to you
and I you know, I don't know youthat well, but just in this
conversation I would say youprobably have a lot of metal in
you as well, and also and I canexplain why I would say that but

(39:28):
yeah, you have.
So your chart said you had alot of earth in you and so earth
element let's go there firstand then I'll explain why.
I think you probably have a lotof metal in you too.
So earth element people tend tobe very nurturing people.
They love to do things forother people.
They're very warm, caringpeople.

(39:51):
They make excellent friends.
They're very mothering people.
They're very prone to worry,though, like they're always
thinking about what they can dofor other people and making sure
everybody else is okay.
They're great people to have inyour life, very supportive
people.
When I listen to you, I thinkthat you probably do have a lot

(40:15):
of metal in you as well, because, well, metal people tend to
hold their cards close to theirchest.
So when you say like, oh yeah,I'm not that comfortable, like
talking about me.
Metal people are.
I find the hardest at a peoplethat have a lot of metal in them
.
They tend to hold their cardsclose to their chest.

(40:37):
They're the hardest I find toget to know out of all the
constitutions Like, for example,my daughter has a lot of metal
in her and she's my daughter andI find her hard to get to know.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
How old is she?
She's 21.
Okay, well, my daughter's 20,my oldest is 20.
So we're right there.
Yeah, maybe it's the age too, Idon't know.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Yeah, it could be.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
So I wanted to say that the metal thing, the cards
close to your chest, is arecurring theme in my life
Interesting yeah.
So it's just today.
I was driving home I had aclient and I came back here for
the interview and I wasremembering last week I went to
a dinner with friends and it waslike a, it was like a chef's

(41:31):
dinner.
And they came out and they waslike 10 friends and they said it
was already prepared.
But does anybody have a foodproblem?
Our first dish is eggplant.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I said I can't eat.
I don't know, I can't say ifI'm allergic.
It does not.
It makes my face sting.
Probably not a good thing,right.
So I raised my hand and I saycould you put something else

(41:54):
besides eggplant?
I shouldn't eat eggplant.
I will, but I shouldn't.
And then honestly just talkingabout it like I feel so, or even
when I was remembering it, sovulnerable, right and like at
that flush of like admittingthat, like I can't eat eggplant,

(42:17):
yeah, anyway.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
That can be an earth thing too.
Right Like you don't wannaworry other people or bother
other people.
You don't wanna receive like.
You'd rather be the one lookingafter other people than having
somebody else fuss over you, youknow yeah yeah.
The other reason why I saymetal for you is you're real
interested in biology too, andalso you're very organized with

(42:43):
this interview.
Thanks, yeah and that's a verypeople who have a lot of metal
in them.
They're very organized, theylike structure, they like to
have things quite organized.
So yeah, yes, that's true.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
So then, each of us has, like a unique signature, a
unique percentage of theelements, and so you would take
on the traits of your dominantelement.
That's basically how that works, yeah okay.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
And also it changes season to season, right, so
we're more affected, like rightnow we're in earth element
season, so we're all moreaffected by earth right now.
So it's earth is a transitionalseason, so we're more affected
by transitions.
Right now we're more feeling,more grounded, moving toward

(43:42):
more, more in energy.
Things are experiencing, thingscoming to completion in our
lives at this time where maybeour digestion is more affected.
At this time of year we'rereflecting on receiving, the
theme of receiving at this timeof year.
Transformation is a big themeat this time of year.

(44:03):
So collectively, we would allbe going through this during
earth element season.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Okay, that's it.
Okay, very interesting becausea lot of times and I know every
yoga teacher on the planet isgoing to resonate with this is
that you know you're seeingstudents, clients, groups, you
know, all week and there'salmost like a theme.

(44:33):
You know like everybody'scoming in with this thing
happening like one after another, and it's the same thing that
you've been experiencing too,and so it's just.
You know, I always think like,hey, we're just all connected,
period.
But there's something to thisidea of like seasons were all,
and usually it does havesomething to do with the weather

(44:53):
, right, like you were saying,it's really hot where you are.
Everyone is grumpy tired Right.
Yeah, yeah.
So this, this, I love this ideathat we're so sensitive to our
nature and to nature.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that.
Yeah, look at you resonatingwith the elements.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
What do you?

Speaker 2 (45:18):
know, that's totally it, and I think that's why I
love it so much.
I mean, people think they'realways like, oh my gosh, how do
you know what I'm going throughright now?
And it's like, well, it's notreally rocket science at all.
Just you know, this is what'sgoing on right now.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Yeah, you know, one of the things that I have over
these many years of practicingyoga, teaching yoga, being a
student of yoga, ben reallycharmed by over and over, is how
compassionate so many of theseEastern philosophies are.

(45:58):
You know, like when I firstlearned about the goonas, right,
and you learn about the Rajas,the high energy and the Thomas,
the low energy, the pastoppression, right, and then this
set buds, perfect Right.
And when I first learned it Ithought, oh, that guy's Rajas,
too much Rajas, you know, orsomebody you know laments that

(46:23):
they've got to their two tomasik, right, they're too
sluggish, they're too tired,they're lazy, you know.
But then when I started toreally dig into the philosophy,
when I started to teach it manyyears ago, I realized that like
that's not how we are to usethis Right, right, yeah, like

(46:49):
you were saying with your book,like I'm not supposed to use, I
mean, you could write it couldbe this diagnostic tool, because
everybody always wants to knowwhat's wrong with them and then
they want the answer.
The diagnosis you know.
But you know like, for example,with the goonas, and what I'm
seeing so much and I saw in yourbook and it's conversation, is
that you know the goonas aresupposed to be like here's

(47:13):
what's up.
It's really hard because stuffis changing all the time.
Sometimes it's Rajas, sometimesit's Thomas, sometimes it's
Sattva, all in the same fiveseconds, right?
So it's not about brow beatingyourself, it's about saying this
is a moment to be compassionateand to practice mindfulness,

(47:37):
like oh here, I see now Rajas iscoming up, got it?
Okay, I have compassion formyself.
This is a struggle, you know,and I'm seeing that in some of
what you're saying too.
It's like let's stop fightingit.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Yeah, I think that was like.
I mean I lead without a lot inthe book and I mean the title is
about finding balance andharmony, right.
So it's all about and I thinkall of these theories are about
finding balance and harmony,right yeah.
And we're all so unique, we needsome people that are more fiery

(48:18):
or more young and some peoplethat are more yin.
We can't be all the same andeven if you look at the day, you
know sometimes during the day,in the morning, it's more young,
which allows you to wake up,and then at night it's more yin,

(48:41):
so you can go to sleep andrestore, right?
So we do need the energy to bealways changing and it's
important, it helps to payattention to that and notice and
appreciate the value of thechanging energy throughout the
day, throughout our lives.
Like I'm entering into whatwould be the earth element

(49:06):
season of my life.
Right?
It's no longer okay for me tokeep hustling the way I was in
the wood element season of mylife, because I'm post menopause
.
Now I'm older, my daughter isgrown, she's in university.
You know she doesn't need methe same as she did.
She's not a child anymore.

(49:27):
You know I'm in the waningseason of my life.
I've got yin in my yang now Ijust don't need to work as hard.
I shouldn't be working as hardanymore, right?
So these things work on alllevels of our lives and we need

(49:47):
to pay attention to them, right?
Of course I don't have the sameenergy in my 50s that I had in
my 30s or my 20s.
And when we work against ournature like that, then we aren't
in balance, we aren't inharmony, and then we suffer.
Right, then we suffer.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
We suffer.
Yes, I think about aconversation I've had with a lot
of yoga professionals, studioowners, about I'm a yoga studio
owner as well about how andmaybe it's partially it's our
culture, partially it's out ofnecessity but we always feel

(50:26):
like we need to be in a growthphase.
We always need to be increasingincreasing the money in the
bank, increasing the number ofstudents, increasing the amount
of content.
It's always, always, always,increase, increase, increase.
Except that's just not possible, Like you were saying.
I mean, in winter it looks likethings are dead, but they're

(50:46):
very much sort of growing andregenerating.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Like.
We need those seasons of quietand decrease as much as we need
the increase and the sustainingtoo.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Yeah, and I literally speak to that in the book like
I don't want to hustle my bookin this interview.
That's okay.
I always find that so annoyingwhen I listen to interviews, but
I do find it so interestingjust to speak to teachers for a
moment that especially in theNorthern Hemisphere, which is

(51:21):
90% of the population, we areworking in an energy that is
antithetical to the naturalenergy of the seasons most of
the time.
So just for example, a timewhen probably our classes are
busiest maybe not for Yin yoga,but is January, when everybody

(51:47):
has their New Year's resolutionsand comes back and that is
supposed to be our quietest time.
Ideally we're attending ourreserves and things.
And in the book I mean I canspeak to it a bit now too but I
offer a lot of suggestions forhow we can prepare for that in
metal element season, becausemetal element season is a

(52:08):
preparation season so that wecan still have time to tend to
our energy reserves.
And then it's so weird becausein fire element season, which is
the most long season, it's likea dead zone in our classes
right, where everybody's outside, playing, having fun which is
great and vacationing.
But then you know we've this isa time when our classes are

(52:33):
quiet and we're not in the flowof the natural rhythm of things,
right?

Speaker 1 (52:38):
As a yoga teacher.
And where does that all of thatenergy go that we have of
increase right Of fire when wedon't have any place to put it?
We worry, we fret, we get downon ourselves.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Right.
So fire out of balance canreally go into anxiety, for sure
, and insomnia I mean, how oftendo you have insomnia in the
summer?
So I think it's really importantto be aware of these things as
a season as a whole, and when wehave awareness, we can make
adjustments as teachers and evenjust to have that awareness.

(53:17):
I think awareness is one of themost loving and compassionate
things that we can have, becausethen we can make the
adjustments and know okay, yeah,summer is going to be quiet, so
how am I going to count forthat?
And winter is going to bebonkers, but it's going to be
time when I am going to be tired, naturally, so how am I going
to adjust for that?
And I'm going to back up inthis season and metal season and

(53:40):
make preparation for thatwinter season and I'm going to
make and I'm going to do thesethings and fire element season
when it's going to be this justghost town, but there's all this
, this energy.
So just to really prep in thoseways, to look at the season as
a whole as a yoga teacher,because it's just such a weird

(54:00):
thing.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
I think that's really helpful.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Yes, I think to normalize it too, right.
I mean, I guess we all know weall go through it, right, and I
found one thing that I did thisyear.
So fire element season is justso young and so many people
around the world are experiencedsuch heat you know, and it's

(54:29):
just hard to do anything in theheat, right?
And so this year I did just awhole month of yoga, ninja,
let's lie down and rest for themonth, you know, and you know,
like, just embrace the energy asit is and let's bring balance
to it.
You know, and I had way moreengagement than I've had year

(54:54):
any other year in the summer.
So I think, like let's stoptrying to fight the energy
that's there and just be honestabout what's there and that
people relax into it more too.
You know, I think that'shelpful too.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Okay, so tell us about how, maybe give us some
practical ideas here in our yinpractice.
So we're in the earth.
When this episode comes out,we'll be in earth.
You know, how could we applythese ideas to the specific
practice of yin here in thisseason?
And, like you said, I mean,maybe we're teachers and perhaps

(55:36):
we're preparing for yeah, whatdo you have for that?

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Yeah, I'm going to share some things that I'm doing
in my community right now,because we're spending two
months really really focusing onearth element season, because
it is a transitional season andit tends to be a shorter season
than the other seasons.
So one of the ways that I'mreally enjoying thinking about

(56:01):
it is that earth is the planetthat we live on and it's always
moving and rotating on its axisaround the sun and so.
But we experience thistransition very smoothly, very
easily, right?
Yeah, so a couple of ways wecan think about this is you know

(56:24):
, how do we experience thetransitions between our yoga
poses?
Right, we tend to be verymindful in our yoga poses, but
what is it like when we'resetting up our props for yoga
poses?
Are we taking the same amountof care and softness and
quietude in those practices?

(56:46):
But also the small transitionsin our days.
Right, you know, maybe you'vefinished your work on your
computer, your laptop, andyou're going to the washroom
Like, are you?
Are you tense in your body whenyou do that?
Are you rushing from one placeto the next?
Like?
I'll be the first to admit thatI do that.
I've got that wood elementenergy.
Right, I'm done this.

(57:06):
I'm going to the next thing.
You know, I feel my heel bonesall the way across the hall
going up.
You know, feel the tension inmy shoulders.
Right, I'm just going to thewashroom, right?
So how could that transition bemore easy, more smooth, more
gradual?
Right, it's not, it's just atransition from one place to the

(57:29):
other in my home.
How could I breathe through itmore easily?
I think that could be a reallybeautiful thing to focus on
transitions, for example.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yeah, I love it.
That's great.
I think that.
Oh.
I want to ask one more thing onthat, though, before I move to
my next question.
My next idea here Is there doyou have like a framework of

(58:05):
poses that you might recommendfor the seasons, or is it?
I mean it's?
I mean, it's what I'm gettingfrom you.
Is this pretty wide ranging?
It could be, you know,mindfulness of transitions.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe, oh, this meridian or this
organ system.
What about the poses?

(58:26):
Should we be mindful of that,or what do you think?

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Yeah, so it's all in the book, so it's really easily
laid out for you.
So you could work with theorgans of the earth element
season the stomach and thespleen, so you could work with
those meridians.
Or you could work with the onesthat balance earth, so you

(58:51):
could work with wood elementones, especially if there's a
lot of worry, then you can backup and you could work with the
liver and gallbladder meridians.
Or you could also, if there'slike a deficiency, then you
could work with fire elementmeridians.

(59:13):
You could work with the heartmeridians and the small
intestine meridians.
So in the book or you can lookit up online too, you could look
up five element theory andthere's a I can.
I mean, I can show you, but Ithink this is mostly audio.
But yeah, a graph that shows thefive elements and the way that

(59:33):
they move, so that they'regenerating and controlling, and
so you could look that wayeasily to see which elements to
work with together.
But I think when you'restarting, like don't bite, like
start small, right, start at thebeginning, just work with if
you're, if you're just beginning, just work with the in earth

(59:54):
element season, just work withstomach and spleen meridians you
know, yeah, and then, you know,choose a theme, like I love
Gary colors book.
Just one thing, like do notbombard your students with too
many things.
Yeah, just work with one thingand let them receive that one
thing.
So yeah, absolutely, I wouldjust teach on transitions and

(01:00:20):
then, and maybe I would justwork with stomach and spleen
meridians, right, or maybe Iwould just like this morning I
taught a class on receivingbecause the stomach receives,
right, and maybe I would workentirely with stomach meridian
for that.
And yes, just choose one theme.

(01:00:42):
Keep it so, so simple, because,as you hear in this interview,
this you could.
I will probably spend the restof my life with this and I've
just scratched the surface withthis in this book.
There's more to say on it.
I have a lot more to say on it.
Right, I've talked about thingswith you today that aren't in
my book, because each season Icome into, as I, more and more

(01:01:05):
is revealed to me, I understandmore and more about the seasons,
the movement of the energy inthe seasons yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
So thanks for bringing in yoga teachers and
how they can approach this.
I appreciate that and I thinkyou said in your book too.
And what you just said is youknow, take the long view with
your students.
Like, imagine that this personin front of you is going to be
practicing with you five, sixyears from now.
So by the time five, six yearshave passed, they've gone

(01:01:44):
through every season with you,every meridian, every organ,
every potential, like balance,this balance, that right.
So just that one thing.
You get a much morecomprehensive understanding over
time if you can really focusand and integrate that tiny
thing in a practice or for amonth, you know, a month of
practices yeah, because theworld that we live in now, we

(01:02:10):
show up every week and you knowif you're teaching in person.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
You're showing up every week and you're teaching,
and they don't want the sameclass every week.
I don't think I don't.
I don't teach in person, but Idon't know.
But I do know that when I putout a video every week, it can't
be the same.
So when I first startedteaching, it was pre-YouTube and

(01:02:34):
it was.
You put everything you knew onthe DVD, like I would record on
DVDs, right.
But that's not the world welive in anymore, right?
So you have again, like, takeVonda Scarabvelli's advice.
You have infinite time and noambition.
Try to give them the smallestlittle sliver, because they're

(01:02:56):
way more likely to be able toabsorb it and to have it be
meaningful.
And if you over deliver, thenit's just going to go up into
their heads and they're notgoing to be in their bodies at
all.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Yes, yes, there's that, and there's the aspect too
, from the teacher's perspective, of their personal development
is that over time.
If you give just a littlesliver at a time, at a time, you
become so much more skilled atdelivering that information, but
also in developing your ownunderstanding of the information

(01:03:33):
right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
So even as you're as you're teaching it, you are
learning it and I want to sayone more thing about this that
maybe doesn't relate to fiveelement theory or anything at
all.
Maybe it does.
As yoga teachers, this is aboutteaching more than anything.
We are not yeah, I'm going tosay this we're not compares of

(01:04:01):
information, like that's not ourmain job, right?
I think, more than anything, weare space holders.
So if we're blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, like, come on, we're
already overloaded withinformation all day long, right?

(01:04:22):
Yeah, might as well sit at homeand scroll through your
Instagram feed.
So it actually takes a lot moreskill and a lot more energy to
be still so.
I mean, I'd love to write awhole book just on the
principles of yen right to bestill, to soften, to stay for a

(01:04:49):
while and to be comfortable andholding that energy like that
takes skill.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
I totally agree.
I totally agree.
Yeah, I think you know, intraining yen teachers, that's
the thing that scares them themost is what do you do with all
that quiet?
That's the most wonderful part,though, you know, is holding

(01:05:21):
that space and like justwatching, and, you know, just
check in to see if maybe someoneneeds you, maybe you'll mosey
over.
You know, I love that part ofyen.
It's just the holding of thespace and the, the offering of
opportunity directed fordirected awareness.

(01:05:44):
We're going to pay attention tox, y, r, c.
Now you have the moment.
Now you teach yourself.
I've done my job.
That's what I love aboutteaching.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
You know the job right is giving the space and
holding the space for them to beable to and, if they can't do
it, for them to be able to learnhow to do it.
And and a big part of it too isto I mean we're getting off the
top of the five elements forsure, but I mean this is so

(01:06:18):
important for yen teaching is togive them some ideas on how to
do it right.
Like, maybe you're going to payattention to your breath, maybe
you're going to pay attentionto sensations in your body.
Maybe that's too uncomfortable.
Maybe you're going to open youreyes and look at something in
the room, you know, maybe you'regoing to repeat a mantra, maybe

(01:06:40):
you're going to know that otherpeople in the room are also
uncomfortable.
Like, so you're going to knowthat you're practicing with
others and they're, and then youhave to trust and leave it.
You know, because, yeah,there's a great book on space
holding and I her name is Sandrasomething.

(01:07:02):
I'm going to make sure that youhave it for your show notes
because I think it should berequired reading for all yen
yoga teachers, restorative yogateachers okay, yeah, for sure,
let me know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
I'll put it in the show notes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
I'm sure people be interested not well known, but
it changed everything for mewhen I read it as a yen yoga
teacher, as a restorative yogateacher, because I just realized
how much people need somebodyto hold space for them, because

(01:07:36):
there's a lot of noise yeah,indeed.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Well, thank you for so many great insights and tools
, strategies.
Is there anything that wedidn't cover, that you feel like
would be missing from this chat, or anything you'd like to
share?
Just to kind of finish up, puta nice bow.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
I don't think so.
I really I really appreciatewhere the conversation went at
the end with the, with some theimportance of space and quiet,
and maybe because I'm justreally craving that right now,
because it's so hot here rightnow, I'm really experiencing the
yang of heat and to balancethat we need water and quiet and

(01:08:35):
stillness.
But I think I'm not alone inthat.
I think that we live in aculture of yang, culture that
really values yang, and I thinkthat's the beauty of yin yoga is
that it brings obviously in yinto a culture that's just

(01:08:59):
drowning in yang.
So I think, if we, we can trustthat process and you know, one
of the things about waterelement is it's about the
mystery and we can.
When we bring up mystery, itsounds so poetic and beautiful,

(01:09:21):
but when we're in it it'suncomfortable because there's
uncertainty and we don't knowhow it's going to end.
But I think that's somethingthat the practice can really
teach us is to trust the mystery.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
So yeah, I love that.
I love that.
That's so good.
Thank you, okay.
So obviously there's a wholebook about this very
comprehensive guide, which Iwill link to in the show notes
if people want to learn moreabout it.
But is there any other placeyou want people to get in touch
with you or just stay connectedto you?

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
yeah, so the book is available on any amazon world
wide and you can get the hardcopy.
I recommend the hard copy.
It's a beautiful experience.
It's expensive I'm not going tolie to you about that because
it's full color and it's long soit costs a lot to print, yeah,

(01:10:23):
yeah, but it's a book thatyou're going to come back to,
year after year, season afterseason.
You can hear from ourconversation that there's a lot
to absorb in it and there'sthere's a lot that you can
receive from it whether you'repracticing or teaching.
So, but if it's too expensive,there's a kindle version that's

(01:10:44):
a lot less expensive.
I love Instagram, so you canfind me on Instagram at
drmlessawest.
I have a website, melissa Westcalm, and I put out yoga videos
on YouTube every week, so youcan find me there YouTube.
Comm slash dm Melissa West, andwe are starting, I think,

(01:11:06):
probably the week that this goesout.
We might we'll probably be twoin to an intro to five element
theory cool, where I'm showingyou I'm teaching right from the
book.
So, for if you don't have thebook, you're going to get an
intro to five element theory.
If you're a teacher and you'rekind of curious how that might

(01:11:26):
look, you can see how, how youmight do it.
So there's that, but there'sthere's tons of others and I
have a playlist at the top thatI keep at the top of whatever
season we're in, of all theearth element classes right now,
but when we're going to met alittle bit.
Season will have all the metalelement season classes.
So yeah, there's there's loads.
If you want to go deep withthis, if you're really gung-ho

(01:11:49):
on it, then I do a lot with mymembers and our membership
community and it's sounds like areally, really great value for
your money there.
Yeah, yeah, great okay.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
Well, I will link to all of that in the show notes
for sure, and I think people arereally going to be interested
in that little course, so thankyou again, thanks so much for
having me.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
It was a joy to spend this time with you.
You're so welcome.