July 2, 2023 • 63 mins
This week on Zen Perry Project, Phil SanGiacomo & Justin Sherrell of the Brooklyn based heavy metal band SOMNURI reinforce our belief that the only thing better than two drummers chatting is three. About to embark on a North American Summer Tour and with their third album Desiderium set to release on July 21st, Phil and Justin talk everything from the most memorable thing they’ve had written on a kick drum to how a scary close call emboldened them to hold nothing back in their artistic pursuits.
Introspective interviews with artistic individuals - an ongoing audiovisual journal of Zen Perry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Zen (00:00):
Thanks for being on the show today.
We have Phil from some Nuri,how do you say your last name,
san Jacomo?
San Jacomo, ok, i was good, iwas pretty sure that's how it's
said, but I just didn't want tosound like a total asshole right
out at the beginning.
Phil (00:15):
I've heard all the pronunciations so I wouldn't be
offended.
Zen (00:18):
Yeah, and Justin should be joining us in a bit.
He's a singer and guitarist andsome some Nuri, let's talk
about that.
Where did the band name comefrom?
Because Michael and I weretalking about that And we're
like I have no, i've never heardthat word before.
Phil (00:32):
So we've actually been told by someone who speaks
Romanian that it's.
It's kind of a strange wordeven for that language, and the
best translation I've heard isthat it means sleeps So multiple
times of having slept.
So they slept would be the thecontext, but I could be
(00:54):
butchering that as well, so itat the end of the day, it's
phonetically pleasing.
Zen (01:01):
So it is.
It's pleasing, that is.
that is very true.
That's a.
I like that.
That's kind of like the idea oflike a like a fortnight of
sleeping, just some weird wordthat only makes sense in another
language, right, all in English, and I guess it doesn't even
make so why Romanian?
Oh, hey, look at this.
Player two has entered the chatJustin's here.
Phil (01:20):
That's why they call him Justin Time.
Zen (01:23):
Oh shit, What's up, Justin?
Justin (01:27):
Ha, sorry about the weight.
Zen (01:29):
Oh, you're good.
Justin (01:30):
We're up and running and going.
Awesome.
How are you?
Zen (01:34):
I'm doing great.
How are you doing today?
Justin (01:37):
Lovely.
Michael (01:38):
Where are you?
Zen (01:40):
Where are you?
Justin (01:41):
right now I'm on my roof .
Zen (01:43):
Hell yeah, it looks nice.
I thought you were like CentralPark or something like that,
but that's not a boulder, that's, that's just a chimney behind
you or whatever that is.
I'm just waiting for the smoketo roll on.
So we were just talking aboutSubnery and the name of the band
, and I guess how it meanssleeps in Romanian is that's
what he said All right It's.
Justin (02:05):
You agree with that?
Yeah, it's one of the rougherquestions to answer, you know,
because it's a good band name.
I like to just lie and make updifferent meanings after every
time somebody asked me.
Zen (02:19):
Yeah, totally, You can just say we just made it up to you.
I would have been like, yeah,totally, That makes sense too.
I mean, I would say for thisgenre people do make a lot of
names and just people just gowith it.
Phil (02:30):
So but the fact that it has a name that resembles
something else in anotherlanguage.
Zen (02:34):
You don't want to be that asshole and be like yeah, we
made that up, right, yeah, well,cool, hey, thanks for being on
the show, guys.
Let's just go from the verystart.
How did, how did Subnery startas a band?
When was the originalorigination?
Justin (02:52):
The twenty fifteen.
Phil (02:55):
Yeah, right around there Twenty fifteen Shared adjacent
practice spaces and knew eachother from playing in bands.
Justin had a bunch of guitarideas, As I mentioned before the
podcast started rolling.
He is also a drummer and agreat musician and had a bunch
of cool song ideas and wanted totry playing guitar in a band
(03:19):
for once.
Michael (03:21):
OK cool.
Justin (03:23):
So I got I demoed out of maybe five songs drums, bass
and guitar And it was awful.
I was like I absolutely need adrummer who can do it.
It was weird, like I could playdrums in anybody else's band
but I couldn't play drums in myown band, you know, to my own It
was weird.
Zen (03:43):
Why do you think that is?
You think you were just almosttrying to like show up yourself
and like kind of overdo it, orwas it just some other weird
mental block?
Justin (03:50):
I think I had all these kind of preconceived notions of
what the drums should do Andthen I went to do it.
I was like I can't even do this.
It was just I don't know, andit kind of felt a little
pretentious too, like I'm notready for the one man solo
record that I play everything onYou know someday, totally, but
it was not.
I wasn't there.
So it was really nice to hearwhat Phil and putting over a lot
(04:14):
of it was way different ideasthan what I would imagine the
drums to be doing.
Phil (04:19):
So it's worked out.
So you didn't.
So you didn't have enough fills, is what you're saying.
Justin (04:24):
I was one fill short.
Zen (04:27):
Oh yeah, Just in time, we got one fill short.
You guys are all freakingpunning out today.
I love that You're fire, i'llsell it.
Justin (04:34):
So I'm telling them I was just in time, i'm right.
Zen (04:38):
It was right, as you were joining it.
You know I had a good laugh.
Michael (04:41):
Yeah, wow, i mean you had a really good face there And
that was like at least like youwere caught in, like a forever
smile And then just gone.
Zen (04:52):
Well, i can't, i can't help that.
Just a smile.
Oh good, welcome back.
Hey, thank you very much.
Welcome back to my own show.
Ok, where the hell was I?
I really threw me off.
Michael (05:04):
Oh yeah, So you guys.
Zen (05:06):
Yeah, you guys got.
Yes, you just adjacent studios.
You're both together playinganother band.
Are you both from New York orBrooklyn?
Well, from upstate New York,Western New York, OK, cool, And
you guys moved down here.
It was was your whole goal kindof to be musicians You can
answer separately or together?
Was that kind of what youwanted to do down here?
Phil (05:27):
I don't think it was a goal, so much as something I
needed to do and, withoutsounding too pretentious and
needed to get get into adifferent scene.
Where we're from, there's not ahuge pool of musicians.
I mean, there's a lot of goodmusicians, but maybe for this
type of stuff I was trying to do, i needed to expand.
So I desperately wanted to getinto a bigger scene And, yeah,
(05:51):
immediately you start meetingpeople, you go to shows.
There's a show happening everynight, multiple shows happen
every night, so it's pretty cool.
Justin (05:59):
Yeah, what about you, justin?
I lived in.
I moved from upstate, i'm closeto Central New York And I had
moved to Boston.
I was playing in the band,moved to Boston, lived there for
four years And it was fun.
It definitely got my feet wet.
I think it was nice to move to asmaller city before just
(06:20):
jumping right into New York.
And then when I moved to NewYork, it was definitely like
wanted to find a band to playdrums in.
I'd only played drums in bandsprior to that And it was really
hard And I think it was reallyintimidating too of like man,
all these bands I would go tryout for really fucking good.
And so I ended up doing likesinger, songwriter, acoustic
(06:43):
stuff, and it really was likethe most challenging thing.
It was this scariest thing,being a solo dude with a guitar
in front of people, like youknow.
But I'm glad I did it.
I think it ended up giving methe confidence that I could use
later to, you know, start a bandand play guitar in a band, you
know.
But yeah, i moved here to playmusic and just kind of didn't
(07:06):
know what I was getting myselfinto, but glad I did, you know.
Zen (07:09):
Yeah, that's.
that's super cool.
I love how, instead of justlike trying out for a bunch of
bands, you're like I just got togo to an open mic.
Screw it This guy, go for theguitar.
Justin (07:18):
Was doing like five open mics a week and sometimes two
or three a night It was.
It was awesome.
And it's kind of that hustlingmentality too, of like sometimes
you get shows out of it.
Sometimes you meet like minormusicians and that's actually
where I met a musician Andthey're like yeah, i actually
play metal and we're looking fora drummer.
I was like there it is.
(07:39):
I did it.
Zen (07:40):
You're never going to believe this, yeah.
Justin (07:44):
Like well, you just sing sensitive songs about
heartbreak, yeah, yeah.
Zen (07:52):
That's hilarious.
I love that.
So who who does like?
where does the idea for thewriting kind of come in with
this stuff?
Because I guess you were.
You were writing songs before.
How does the whole band dynamicwork for you guys in Sumnery?
Justin (08:09):
Well, i think I think it's always evolving too, right?
I mean the first record, i feellike I had all those songs,
most most of the songs I had.
Basically the songs are atleast good skeletons for, and
that was our first record.
The second record was you knowideas and Phil helping assemble
and like really help write thesongs of like.
(08:30):
you know this part, you knowit's like we don't need 20
minute songs.
and then this this past recordwas was you know even more of
that, and Phil bringing inguitar ideas as well and more
lyric writing, more melody oflike.
you know how maybe some vocalmelodies might work or different
(08:51):
ideas, right?
So the collaboration is kept,kept blossoming.
you know more and more, eachrecord, each song, really.
Zen (09:01):
Yeah, what about you, phil?
So I get it says, at least onyour Spotify, that you're also
the producer of Sumnery.
What does it mean to kind of bea producer, be the drummer in
the band?
What is your role?
Is it like a?
I don't know any and allthoughts for that.
Phil (09:18):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not like producing in the sense of, you
know, like Rick Rubin sitting onthe couch saying yes or no.
It's more the actual recordingproduction and just kind of you
know, tracking vocals, trackingguitars, getting the best takes
out of us, and myself included.
So I'm kind of producing myselfin a way too, doing a lot of
(09:41):
pre-production for the records.
You know, tempo mapping,everything.
So it's a lot of like you knowstuff that saves us racking up a
huge recording budget at theend of the day.
And then, yeah, I have a goodidea of what you know vocals and
where things should sit, andand, yeah, like Justin said,
(10:02):
we're always evolving with itand whatever we can do, DIY on
our own before we start.
You know, spending money isideal.
So, whether we're creating themusic we want to create and not
being constrained by budgets andtime and all that kind of stuff
, Yeah, i absolutely agree withthat.
Zen (10:21):
I think that's always the best way to go into the studio.
It's really funny gettingcalled to record and nobody has
anything ready.
And the engineer althoughthey're getting paid a lot of
money, they're still just likeguys like yeah you're not really
here.
Phil (10:36):
I have.
I've heard all the horrorstories from friends where the
band is paid for the time andthey don't even have any of the
parts written and it's just likethey're just sitting there to
stand still.
Zen (10:47):
So yeah, it's not the 70s anymore where, like you, could
just like hang around in astudio and just do a bunch of
blow and you know so much weedand then just like hope that
something will come out Well you, can You can do that.
You can.
Justin (11:01):
You can do anything if you put your mind to it.
Zen (11:04):
Sure, yeah, never mind, you're right, you're right.
So so you guys recorded both ofyour albums at Studio G and I
was just kind of starting toread up on Studio G But I didn't
want to do too much, butapparently it's more or less
like a legendary spot for a lotof musicians.
And why is that?
(11:24):
And why is it What makes it sogood?
Phil (11:29):
Well, the gear is obviously, you know, kind of
first and foremost like what arethey working with, what are the
room sound like.
But Justin had this friend,jeff Berner, who works there,
and that was kind of the allureof the first couple of records
is go track with someone we knowAnd he just made it really
smooth, really easy And and then, like I said, we kind of do
(11:53):
guitars and vocals ourselves totake a little more time with it.
But Studio G has always beenvery comfortable And, like I
said, you know, top, top notchgear and the room sound great.
This record we went toSilvercore, which is Gojira's
home base and Joe's studio, andit was.
(12:14):
It was awesome.
We just needed a change.
You know something different.
Yeah but it was awesome.
Zen (12:19):
Yeah, and your Diablo is coming out July 21st, is that
right?
We got it.
And Desiderium, what's the?
what's the meaning behind thatname?
Did you guys make that word up,or is that a?
Phil (12:35):
go ahead.
Zen (12:35):
Justin.
Justin (12:36):
A bunch of vowels.
No, i think the definition islike tense longing, you know,
some other thing was like someother things that I was reading
about.
I can't remember how I cameabout it, but it was like this
Irish poem.
I want to say something likethat, but it was the sense of
(12:58):
longing for, specifically for ahome that you never really had,
i think was the first definitionthat I'd seen was like whoa,
you know, and it kind of tiedinto a lot of the themes and the
record of like you know, areyou longing for this life that
hasn't existed or that you don'tknow that hasn't happened yet?
(13:19):
You know, this kind of like loopof like I get too heady, but
it's like what is life, you know?
what is what is our lifeexperience, you know?
are we, are we, are we livingit now?
Are we waiting, you know?
are we just constantly hustlingto wait to live?
You know there's can go onforever, you know, and it always
kind of the meaning kind ofevolves over time.
(13:41):
to the more I listen to some ofthe songs and even lyrics that
I wrote, i'll be like holy shit,that means something different,
you know.
I think that's when you knowit's, it's fun and people can
interpret a lot of the lyricsand different themes the way
they want to, and I love musicthat does that.
you know it's not so like this,is it?
this is what it means, nothingelse.
Michael (14:02):
Yeah.
Zen (14:04):
I love that idea of like what is this thing that I feel
like I'm missing from my life,but you have no idea what it is
because you just kind of exactly, yeah, that's the human, that's
the human condition in general.
Yeah, grass is always greener,but yeah, they got what?
what if it's not even grassyou're looking at?
Justin (14:22):
Yeah, the hurry up and wait, you know.
yeah, that's all those thingsof what do we in such a rush for
?
Let's just live the life rightnow, while we have it, you know,
yeah.
Zen (14:33):
We're all gonna back.
So I would say you, would yousay you write most of the lyrics
, or is this like kind of a moreof a band effort for the stuff
or your music?
Justin (14:44):
Just record I wrote all the lyrics, you know, and each
record it becomes more you know,builds very on top of that
stuff of kind of like all right,you know, what is.
What is this about?
What you know?
do these lyrics make sense?
Is this a real word?
You know, but it's really kindof, you know, helped, i don't
(15:10):
know.
Everybody looks at lyrics in adifferent way and this, this
record, even more so.
I think it was a little bit onthe farthest way, but let's this
record even more so, ofbringing in lyrical themes.
You know, whole verses, youknow, and I think it brings out
the best for the song.
When you, when you havemultiple ideas, like, is that
(15:30):
better than this?
You know it's always aboutwhat's the best idea.
When it's not, whose idea isthat kind of thing, you know?
Zen (15:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
And what other sort of thingswere different between this
album you just recorded and yourlast two other than you know,
changing the, changing the spacewhere you recorded it?
What other sort of things havechanged along your you know your
band journey since 2015?
Phil (16:01):
We're on a different label now, so we got signed to
Monarch.
Michael (16:04):
Heavy.
Phil (16:06):
And, yeah, very excited to work with them and put this
thing out And I would say, morethan anything, recording wise,
we went with an engineer to mixthis time, which you know was a
little different in the past Ihad, i had mixed the records and
knew they could be much better.
So it was cool to work with,you know, a friend and colleague
(16:27):
and Justin Mantuth at West EndStudios in Kansas City And I've
done a bunch of projects withhim and it was like, man, we
need, we need pro ears on thisthis time and wanted to take the
vocal recording to the nextlevel and, you know, production
in general, just step it up.
Yeah, i was the songwriting,like Justin was saying.
Zen (16:49):
I mean I'm surprised you did all.
I mean the other two albumssound amazing, so that's pretty
crazy that you're doing most ofthe mixing on that.
Thank you.
Justin (16:58):
Yeah, so I mean.
another thing that wasdifferent too is like using, at
least for guitars, like thefirst two records, we just used
my guitar amp through a cabright And that was, you know,
and we layered and we you knowkind of stacked and whatever.
But this this time, you know,being in Go Jira studio, is like
(17:18):
what's that amp sound like?
What's that?
amp sound like You know was ableto kind of like have a little
more fun and have that studioexperience too with with some
different options.
I thought was was really youknow, it was fun, you know, and
that's what it's all about.
Zen (17:32):
Yeah, so if you get to actually have fun doing it,
everything's going to come outbetter.
That's super, super cool.
That sounds like you guys had areally good experience.
How long have you beenrecording this album Or, i guess
, writing, recording wholeprocess?
Phil (17:49):
The recording was about probably two months.
We were in the studio for howmany days, Justin Four?
Justin (17:58):
Yeah, but really you know three, yeah, yeah three and
a half.
Yeah, three and a half, Yeah,cause man two left us hanging.
No, yeah, yeah.
Phil (18:10):
It's called four.
Zen (18:12):
Wait four days.
Phil (18:13):
Yeah, Yeah, So four days of tracking, And then obviously
there was more days.
We track bass in our own studioand vocals as well.
So we took we take the longesttime to record the vocals, make
sure it's right, Make sure it's,you know, feels good, feels
natural, And and then.
But as far as songwriting andJustin always has ideas, I have
(18:36):
ideas.
We, you know, we kind of likesit on demos for a while and
I'll take his guitar riffs andtry to come up with some beats
by myself or together, You know.
So the ideas are always flowingAnd I think probably over the
course of two years or so wewere working on the ideas.
But the songs came togetherwith vocals and lyrics pretty,
(18:59):
pretty quickly in the last month, really before it was due.
Zen (19:03):
Yeah.
Michael (19:04):
Yeah.
Zen (19:04):
Wow, i have a question about that.
I'm I'm currently involved inrecording like an EP right now,
but it's probably the mostinvolved I've been with an EP.
Usually I'm so I'm a drummerand usually I just I'm a hired
gun, so I'm like pretty farremoved from any of that.
But as I write more with myfriends for what we're working
(19:26):
on like.
I'm realizing there's so manysongs that we don't use.
Would you say you use most ofthe songs that you write, or are
you just constantly come upwith new ideas?
How far along do you get in asong before you abandon it?
Any thoughts on that?
This is a personal question,just curious about it.
Sure.
Phil (19:45):
I don't think they ever get abandoned.
I think you know there's songson this record, like I said,
that have been.
You know the structure or theriffs have been around for a
couple of years And maybe itjust didn't, or maybe even like
a riff, like one riff that wason a cell phone that you know I
have buried somewhere in myphone.
I'm like man, i know there'sthis awesome riff in there.
(20:05):
I just have to search throughhundreds of recordings to find
that one.
And so, yeah, there's alwaysideas.
But I think yeah, sorry, i lostmy train of thought there I
think, yeah, there's alwaysideas, and it takes time, man,
it's just like nothing is everdead.
I think we always have like asong that doesn't make the
(20:27):
record because of the length ofthe vinyl and we end up using it
like coils.
There's a song we released lastJuly and it was just too long
and weird to fit on the lastrecord, but it needed it.
It needed to see the light ofday.
Michael (20:43):
Yeah.
Zen (20:43):
That's cool to think of it like that.
So you obviously haveconstraints with vinyl, which I
think is just what.
Is it Like?
42 minutes can go on on vinyl,i forget.
There's like some weird numbersand like that Something like
that 21, 22 aside.
Justin (20:58):
I think You don't want the degradation happening.
You want the sonic quality toto withhold, you want to
compress everything just to fit30 songs on a record.
I think it's also kind of goodfor us too, like, all right,
let's not put on 15 songs atnine minutes length.
You know it's like it's.
It's a hindrance sometimes tobe like oh man, how long is this
(21:22):
song?
Do we need to edit them downwithin the songwriting process.
You know it's kind of a weirdtask.
Like we had one song or twosongs that didn't make this
record, that we reported one.
All right, which, yeah prettyawesome Yeah.
(21:42):
Well, i know that's kind ofalways the goal of like let's
write the songs as full aspossible and feel good and we'll
make that decision later.
You know, like the like, thelike, the parts, you know it's
like the best songs make therecord and the songs that fit
the kind of motif and everythingthat makes the record.
Yeah, i always kind of lookforward to stumbling across
those old riffs that didn't makethe cut.
(22:03):
But Paylice from this recordwas at the fourth song That had.
You know, we kind of had thewhole song from like our first
record and Just kind of forgotabout it.
It was like just chilling thereas a full song and I remember
coming across it go like whoa,it's actually pretty cool.
(22:24):
We should try and resurrect itand do something with it And
it's, you know, it's one of thefunner songs to play.
Yeah.
Zen (22:33):
Yeah, what?
actually?
I was gonna say that too.
What do you think is a For bothof you?
what do you think your favoritesong to play live is at the
moment?
if you have one, one, two,three go.
Phil (22:45):
Man, i Mean I always love playing new stuff.
So it's, you know, i It's notthat I get sick of the old songs
, but you know, obviously if youplayed it a bunch, live you.
You want to do somethingdifferent.
So I really like playingremnants And I also like playing
paramedesia.
It's, it's a single we're aboutto release and it's just really
(23:10):
big and sludgy and just fun andit's a Tickles my fancy.
Justin (23:18):
That's a tickler the rift.
There's the two previoussingles.
I was gonna say was what a wayto go?
and that's the beginning.
Both of those just feel likeThey're just fun rock songs, you
know, each you know, and I havea solo in one, which I don't
usually played solos, but it'slike my time to shine.
I got a solo, but they're bothjust like high energy, like I
(23:43):
feel.
Like You know, we've only beenplaying them live since May, so
the run that we just did, youknow, i think we've only played
them live Five, five or six,maybe seven shows and each time
it's like, man, i can't wait toplay this tomorrow.
Or, you know, like we're aboutto go on through, i can't wait
to play this for a monthstraight.
(24:03):
And you know, like those, thosetwo first singles, i'm really
enjoying playing right now.
Zen (24:09):
Hell Yeah, i mean I can't wait to see him live on the
whenever I get that chance.
Another question you have, likeYou have like six to eight
different voices that you use Inseminary, which is I.
In my opinion, how the hell doyou like had developed your,
(24:33):
your voice and like kind ofbeing articulate in different
ways?
and Because, like I would loveto you were talking about
earlier, you used to have like20 minute versions of these
songs or you used to writereally long-ass songs.
So I feel like you're, you're,you should go all over the place
.
So how did you kind of startlearning to sing in all these
different ways?
or you know any and allthoughts I Thought we were
(24:55):
talking about drums here.
Phil (25:05):
You sing like a drum.
No, i mean.
Michael (25:09):
I don't want you to start overthinking it now.
Zen (25:11):
That would suck I.
Justin (25:14):
Don't know.
I just, i consider it, you know, there's They're singing and
then they're screaming and thenthere's an in-between, but I
don't know it's.
It's kind of like what it justhappens for whatever the part
calls for.
You know and I don't reallyhave an answer for that like
(25:36):
Thank you, i guess it makes mesound like I have multiple
personalities or something.
I have six to eight differentpersonalities And I guess that
it kind of feels like that too.
You know, you're kind ofChanneling a particular emotion.
When it comes to screams, youknow, there's like kind of a
higher thrashy scream and thenthere's sometimes like gutter,
(25:59):
old doom, stuff, but reallywhatever is happening in the
part, that just kind of Yeah, idon't know how we, how do we do
that?
You're the producer, yeah.
Phil (26:10):
I mean, to me that's, that's what makes the band
interesting.
I wouldn't, i Wouldn't be sointerested in being in this kind
of band It wasn't for Justin'svocals I think you know this the
Like you said, the type ofscream you know, like if I love
hardcore, i love death metal,but like having to do the same
kind of scream over and over.
(26:31):
And obviously it's evolving.
There's so many good vocalistsout there.
The dude from Lorna short has somany like crazy things he can
do with his voice, and Even likea Mike Patton, you know,
someone who could just like, inany second turn, turn on a dime
and be a different character, adifferent person.
And we've actually beencriticized for it a little bit
(26:52):
too.
We've been called faceless, butsome Almost almost isn't like
where's the identity of thesinger, where's the identity of
the frontman or whatever, andit's just like that's just not
what we do.
We, like Justin said we cateredto the part and try to, and,
yeah, when we're recording we'relike What's gonna work the best
(27:13):
over this part, you know, andwhat's conveying the emotion
we're trying to convey?
Zen (27:18):
Yeah, i mean you could really see the amount of work
you guys put into The recordingprocess when you watch live
videos, like and that's, i thinkbecause you said you spent so
much time on the vocals to getit Right, but I mean it's very
like clear and you have likejust so many small sections
where the voice and the Like,the feeling, changes and it's
like you guys are like morphingthis story.
(27:39):
So, anyway, that's, that's myteam There you go.
Thank you.
Michael (27:44):
Yeah absolutely.
Zen (27:46):
Uh, i would like to talk about some drum stuff, because
it's rare that we have a drummeron, let alone two drummers on,
you, so it looks out to be bothabout gear for a second.
This is when people willusually a You know, chime, chime
off the podcast, so we mightkeep the abbreviated.
So you use some big-ass symbols.
(28:09):
What are you?
What are you rocking for yourshows?
Phil (28:12):
Oh, I Guess they're.
I guess they're big relatively.
I Got 15 inch hats, hhx hats,they say Dave Weckel on
underneath the top one, which isa kind of cool, i guess.
And then I got a 19 inch aax onmy left, 20 inch Aax on my
(28:39):
right.
Explosion crash, a 20 inch ride.
I kind of like a Ride I cancrash on.
I crash on that a lot.
That's an HHX evolution.
And then I got this Holy ohzone thing from shabian as well.
The Kind of the effects, quickcrash, if you will yeah, go
(29:05):
ahead.
Zen (29:05):
What are you rocking for drums?
Phil (29:08):
I got Thomas star classics walnut birch and, yeah, i just
got this kit this year.
I haven't had a new drum set inlike 10 years, so I was like
You know, coming out with a newrecord.
We're gonna be doing some, somemore touring this year and Yeah
, took the plunge.
Yeah and I got a.
How is it brass snare it rules.
(29:32):
Can't think of a star chronic.
Zen (29:35):
Yeah, those are, those are super rad.
Phil (29:37):
I see the scheme is on those drums, the color scheme.
It's kind of like a I Don'tknow it's like a forest green
with some with some charcoal inthere.
It's weird looking.
I like it cool Justin.
Zen (29:54):
What was, what was your very first drum kit or What
first drums that you played on?
I was like this question.
Cardboard boxes.
Justin (30:03):
Yeah, the first real drum set I got was a CB, cnb or
whatever.
And Can we swear on here?
Oh, I've been swearing so yeah,my friend came over and it was
like the first day I had a CNBright on the bass drum and he
(30:24):
wrote cock and balls.
I'm gonna see and be like dudeand I don't see like play shows.
And my bass drum said cock andballs.
Like you know, like come on man, like there was no way I could
get.
It was a CB.
Yeah, it was awesome and it wasjust a two rack tom floor, tom
(30:50):
kick, and then I I played bassin the high school jazz band and
like every rehearsal I wouldlike I would take a symbol and
I'll take a stand.
Eventually I've worked up allthese symbols.
It was, you know, they werelike the older zilder gyms with
no prints, like you couldn'teven tell That there was zilder
(31:12):
and it was like little tinyprints.
Yeah, that was my first kid andI think we ended up like
burning it or something.
Zen (31:22):
That's pretty fun.
Rocked the cockaball is drumset.
Justin (31:25):
It's gone, so like I'll stay reg next shit, yeah, yeah.
Zen (31:32):
What, what were both of your kind of first bands like
what was a, where were youstarting off?
and it's like first memorableshows for both of you.
Phil (31:43):
We'll start with you, phil first memorable shows Probably
this battle, the bands of myband, one pretty cool and
Rochester, new York, and it wasextremely New-medley.
Justin (32:01):
The only way yeah.
Phil (32:04):
How old are you?
I was 15 and the dude whoplayed guitar was a senior and
and He actually ended up makingJustin guitar.
So it's kind of all come fullcircle.
I grew up playing with that guyand We were so stoked we like
drove back from this battle, thebands like probably beat a
(32:25):
bunch of 30 year olds and likeEveryone was pissed at us.
You know, at the end of it,like when they announced us,
everyone was like who the fuckis that band?
and Yeah, we got out of therefast and drove home and we're
super stoked.
It's made the, made the localpaper and everything rock on.
Zen (32:44):
Wait, did you say your bandmate made a guitar for
Justin?
Is that?
Phil (32:49):
so he.
So he ended up getting intoguitar building.
And What's the?
Zen (32:54):
right word for that.
What's it?
Yeah, it's like that doucheyname for it.
Yeah, yeah, sorry, go on, he'sa luthier, yeah there you go.
Michael (33:09):
So yeah, so what you?
Zen (33:10):
made a guitar for him.
What was, what the hell?
Phil (33:13):
how that so he just got into building guitars and like
he makes sort of like Gibsonstyle guitars and has the The
permits to do so and he justlike, but he like, he fucks it
all up.
He like takes a design that youknow a less ball purist would
be like what the fuck is thatthing You know?
(33:33):
and he makes it his own and andso I brought you know his
guitars and, justin, i said yougot to check this guy's shit out
.
He makes really cool stuff.
I bet he would make you abaritone, which is Justin's jam
now.
And, yeah, he just did a wholecustom process.
Justin, you can tell him howyou Are.
(33:54):
You guys came up with thedesign and everything.
Well, I got bored quickly.
Justin (34:06):
Make it cool.
Oh Anyway, i got into baritoneguitars.
I don't know our old bassplayer also.
He kind of like Frankensteinguitars together and would
always bring in these hideousthings.
Some of us.
We ended up bringing one thatwas a bass, a bucket head,
bucket head, baritone white SG.
(34:28):
It was awesome, it was so cooland But it was Frankenstein
together, just wasn't built verywell, but it sounded great and
the like neck felt great.
So when Matt Matt banker frombanker custom guitar.
When he hit me up like MattHughes yep, sorry, that's not
(34:49):
his real name, matt Hughes frombanker custom guitar.
Like dude, let's, let's makeyou a guitar, let's make you a
proper one of a kind baritonethat It's never been done before
.
I can.
Yeah, i really like the neckand the radius of the bucket
head SG.
So I think I gave him the specsof that and he's like well,
(35:10):
what kind of wood do you want?
I have no idea.
And he ended up getting thisHonduran sinker mahogany.
I guess he has like a guy inHonduras who dives into rivers
and like pulls these trees thathave been in the mud for like
300 years and gets the wood andmakes guitars out of them.
And it was like, yeah, let's dothat.
(35:30):
Yeah, like It was really, youknow the, the?
only legal totally legal, yeah,and it's I think it's You know,
and that's the, I think, theresponsible way, because it's
like I don't think that would.
You can't harvest that woodanymore, you know.
It's like Corina and that kindof mahogany.
I don't think you can cut downthose trees anymore unless
(35:51):
you're a piece of shit.
So, like you know, he's likethe loophole is getting that
shit that's fallen into a riverand has been like Preserved,
being in mud for hundreds ofyears.
That sounded super cool andthen he kind of You know, we
talked about this before, youknow, we talked about color
schemes and like let's just goone pickup, let's, you know.
(36:13):
And he's like we, you know, wewent back and forth, i don't
know, 20 times about this, thatand the other.
It's kind of like you're theexpert dude, just build it and
make sure it looks awesome.
Yeah, it's like I feel like areal guitar player having that
thing you know I don't feel likea drummer playing guitar.
Zen (36:33):
Yeah, you're like this is made for me.
So guy to go down losers.
So what's the thing?
so baritone is usually whatthey use for I mean, that's like
the surf rock.
Yeah, I know.
Justin (36:49):
Western stuff.
They're typically in B standard, you know.
But yeah, i'm surprised thatmore people who tuned down to
like B and a and beyond don'tuse that.
I mean, it was longer, it's,that's the same.
It's basically like a fire, aGibson firebird body shape, but
(37:09):
it's like the exact same size ofthe Thunderbird, which is the
base.
Yeah, it's fucking huge.
Anyway, it's awesome.
I can talk about that guitar ona drum podcast all day.
Zen (37:21):
Yeah.
Oh I mean, that sounds sick asfuck.
That's cool.
Yeah, that whole connection andIt's a you know goes all the
way back to the battle, thebands.
I'm glad I asked about yourfirst band.
How about you?
How about you, justin?
Justin (37:36):
Oh, really like the first shows we were playing,
like we played at a few Venuesand Syracuse and we're just, you
know, we didn't know what we'redoing, we're terrible.
It just, you know, so unfair,like we didn't know how we did
the thing where we'd like set upon stage, it, set up the drums
(37:57):
on stage and tear down like onesimple.
You know we were like suchnerds and But we started doing
like graduation parties and likebirthday parties in the summer.
That ruled, like it was such agreat, like playing outside is
the best and like you know, it'slike Half covers, half
(38:19):
originals.
You know we were playing Godsmack the pop approach, you know
the good shit And like those tome were just like there was so
much fun, you know, and reallykind of was like I don't know
it's so fun and and you'rereally like I want to, i want to
(38:39):
take this the next step furtherand that you, you kind of I'll
grow people who are like I justwant to play God smack covers,
man, you know.
Zen (38:48):
You gotta give way.
Yeah, what's that song?
whatever or whatever.
Yeah, that's not good.
I mean some of those first.
So those first.
You know, fucking new metalalbums are just.
They're just icing on the cakeAnd I feel like new metal is
almost having a resurgence rightnow.
The stomach's not 100%, which Inever thought I was gonna say
(39:10):
probably like six years ago, butit's kind of bad.
Phil (39:14):
It was a.
It was a dirty word for a whileand It's definitely make it
made it come back and we weplayed a show and and Right
after we got done there was anew metal night and it was like
a ton of fucking kids and likeWe're like, hey, we got some new
metal influence in our music,or you might like it.
They're like, yeah, whateverWe're here to, we're here to
(39:36):
dance to fucking saliva and cornand And whatever right.
Justin (39:43):
But yeah, there's like 2122 this all.
It's like you weren't evenalive when new metal happened,
like it was so weird to see, soyeah.
Phil (39:54):
Yeah.
Michael (39:55):
I see my name is on those shows right.
Right.
Zen (39:58):
Yeah.
Michael (39:59):
I guess.
Justin (40:00):
I'm gonna go to one Do it my own.
Phil (40:03):
My only hang up was that they were like selling the band
shirts there, ah, and I was like.
I was like, wait a minute, thisis like a black market, like a
bootleg version of the MarilynManson shirt or the or the
deftone shirt or whatever.
Like What's going on here.
What's this operation yourunning here, miss?
Justin (40:23):
deck didn't give you the rights to that.
Zen (40:28):
Although it is st Vitus though.
So, honestly, if any, if anyvenue in the world could pull
that off or get the rights tosell their shit, it would be st
Vitus but, yeah it was thepromoters.
Michael (40:37):
Yeah, yeah, it wasn't the venue was.
Phil (40:40):
It was some, it was the promoters.
But yeah, whatever, man, aslong as kids are into heavy
music, it doesn't matter.
You know you can't be agatekeeper or a leadist.
You know That's how they'rediscovering.
That's how I discovered heaviermusic.
You know I was like listen todeath sounds and stuff and then
and then found the sugar orwhatever it's it's it's.
It's cool to see.
Zen (41:02):
Yeah, have you?
have you both seen Michigan?
But?
Michael (41:08):
oh yeah, no you're not seeing them what.
Justin (41:14):
I mean, I'm taking you on a date next time.
We play Oz best early 2000s.
Zen (41:22):
Yeah, did they.
I don't know, probably they did.
Michael (41:29):
If they did, they did, they did, they did.
There's a.
There's a beautiful video ofthem playing new millennium
cyanide Christ, like in 2001, toa bunch of people who have no
idea what they are about to getinto, and amazing, i Yeah, truly
.
Justin (41:46):
Yeah, well, i Went to all those Oz Fests like 99
through 2004, so if they playedI probably had seen them, but I
probably had to shit my pantsand leave if I saw them, you
know.
Zen (42:01):
What is happening quicker than usual at an Oz fest.
Yeah, i mean they're.
They're insane live.
I actually never heard of thembefore.
I saw them at aftershockfestival and I just remember
hearing them in the way distanceAnd I was like what the fuck is
that?
it sounded like just aperpetual earthquake, quick
happening at this festival andit was drawn to it like some
(42:23):
weird fly.
Yeah, anyway, i mean just fordrummers to.
It's like there's justabsolutely Yeah, and it's good.
It's good it.
They're kind of a little Iwouldn't say mainstream.
But you know bill Burr thecomedian.
He's always talking about whatshook it.
Now It's just such a weirdthing.
Yeah, that's our he's.
Phil (42:45):
He's got some pretty cool tastes, you know yeah, i mean
he's out with David.
Zen (42:49):
She's like my guy, that's like my, my I went to musicians
Institute and he would come allthe time and I bought scores.
We've talked to a few times butI mean he fucking trains that
guy.
So, uh, cool Maybe it was justthe shit.
Yeah, he's great man.
Yeah, okay.
Oh man, i had a really goodquestion.
(43:10):
Where the hell did it go?
Oh Yeah, you guys held trials.
You have now four members, soyou added Chris.
I was what made you decide youwanted to kind of expand the
sound, and what was the ideabehind that and how to try out
scope.
Phil (43:27):
So I mean, we had never done anything like a tryout, We
had never even really advertisedthat we were looking for
someone else.
But I think we both knew thatwe wanted an additional member
since the early days.
It was, you know, and then wegot kind of got labeled as this
sort of power trio or butultimately we always knew there
(43:52):
needed to be another layer thereand another musician Really.
And once we found out Chris wasa drummer as well, it sealed
the deal.
Justin (44:02):
You're hitting the you play drums too getting this band
.
Phil (44:06):
But you know, seriously, it's like he has a great.
He has a great sense of rhythmAnd he's very tight with his
playing and it's awesome.
But I think it.
You know, that's what's always.
You know, justin writes greatriffs, but he's also like a very
tight player And so having twoguys now playing the same riff
very tightly is awesome.
(44:26):
It's a stereo wall of sound.
Justin (44:30):
Yeah, yeah.
It's certainly something that Ithink we we intended to have
from the very beginning And itjust never did.
You know, it was three of usand it was like, all right,
we're rolling.
You know, it was hard enough tokeep consistent bass players in
the band that.
You know.
Especially after this record,it was like we're going to need
(44:53):
someone else.
You know, a lot of times ifthere was a difference, harmony
or something happened on arecord, i would use a loop pedal
and try and play one thing andthen play the other.
It's really, you know, i thinkit could be done, not by me
necessarily, but like it wasjust one of those things, like
(45:15):
we need to really expand andkind of represent this record
where there is more of thathappening and go all the way.
You know just kind of where wewere with our band, of like
let's, let's do the thing thatwe've said we're always going to
do, let's get some fresh bloodin here and kind of shake up our
band and kind of like it reallyhas been like really
(45:37):
re-envigorating for us and likehaving, you know, another guy
that won't stop playing guitarwhen Phil's trying to talk.
Phil (45:48):
If I hear one more pinch harmonic.
Zen (45:53):
You guys are all drummers too, so you're just like playing
right over each other just onyour respective instruments,
whatever you got.
Who can come up with the samething?
Michael (46:01):
Yeah.
Zen (46:03):
What is a?
I mean after band practice withthe 3V there, do you, justin?
you always just try to jump onthe drums a little bit before
you leave.
Justin (46:12):
I'm not telling you.
Phil (46:16):
Damn.
Michael (46:17):
So, you are playing my drums, i know that comes out at
four.
Justin (46:26):
He pulls out the measuring tape.
There's a ding in my stick.
It's just three six things off.
I haven't played drums since Idon't know.
It's been a while.
I got a nine year old son and Itake him over to our studio
(46:46):
over our practice space, like ona rainy day or something like
just to let him fucking go nuts.
I got a set of extra cymbals sohe could smash the shit out of
him.
You can see him tonight.
But I love playing drums andnever say never.
But like you know, i just loveplaying guitar and drums are so
(47:10):
much fun.
I feel like that's whereeverybody should try to play
drums in their life at somepoint.
You know, i feel like guitarplayers, better guitar players.
Bass players better bass players.
Singers it's gonna be better ifyou've got a little drums in
your life.
You know it's so primitive andso like that instant
gratification when you, when youfuck and hit that groove and
(47:31):
you're slamming.
There's nothing like it.
A pinch harmonic is pretty cool.
Zen (47:39):
Yeah yeah, that's a great.
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, when I was teaching, itaught drum lessons for like
five years and I taught so Ithought, like dancers, i taught
people who just wanted to justget more involved in the rhythm
side of things And that wasalways a cool thing to see,
especially when they, when theyget that first, you know, beat
number one that everybodylearned inside of play and they
can play, yeah, exactly, yeah.
(48:02):
Well, billy Jean, back in black, that's.
Those songs have made me moremoney than any other song, just
Thanks.
Phil (48:10):
Rudd, My best students, my best drum students, were always
piano players.
I discovered this over time,for whatever reason.
Just like being able to readmusic and do multiple things at
once, I think just you know,trigger something in the brain
and and they just picked it upso quick, almost too quick,
because I'd be like, All right,well, I got to like.
Zen (48:32):
You know, this is you're just going to know everything
too quickly And that's the yeah,you got to keep on sucking or
else I have to start gettingmore curriculum.
Yeah that was definitely athought process for you when I
was teaching.
Justin (48:45):
Milk your parents for money, dude, i had this kid that
I taught the first drum.
Zen (48:50):
He never played drums before and I like taught him.
On his table He was justpatting it out And then within
three months he was doing likestick tricks behind his head,
throwing the stick up, catchingit.
Shit that I literally cannot do.
And I was like you, littleasshole, but you're going to
make me listen.
Phil (49:07):
These kids grew up with YouTube as well, so they have,
they just have so much knowledge, musical knowledge, at their
fingertips And you can learn howto do anything at any time.
You know, and it's it's.
It's cool, but it's also scary,you know.
It's like, yeah, there is somekid out there who will shred you
into you know non-existence ifthey wanted to.
(49:27):
But you know, there's somethingabout like life experience to
being a musician you know likegetting out and experiencing
things and making art, insteadof just like owning your skills,
all that's you know, and Ithink we're in this generation
of like, you know, the soloartist really, of like someone
who's just a star on Instagram.
(49:49):
They're, they're absolutelyhave every job you can imagine.
I don't know any other songsand I can't think of any of.
You know what I mean.
It's just like it's a differentworld.
So it's cool to see up andcoming bands more so for me than
than necessarily the me me, meplayers.
Zen (50:08):
Oh, yeah, totally.
I agree too.
It's some of the best rumors on, you know, instagram and all
that stuff.
I'm like I don't who's everlistened to a song by you,
though, like you're right, thatwas a cool trick.
But yeah, that's alwayssomething we can like have a
talk down with other musicians,be like Yeah, they, they suck.
I mean, they haven't even gotdrunk in a show and had to
figure out how to get homeafterwards.
(50:28):
Like they're missing out likeclearly they've had to spend a
fortune to just like buy gearand not get paid.
Phil (50:36):
Oh, you didn't leave your symbols two states away, Like
how are you even a musician?
Zen (50:42):
Like come on, So yeah, um, we'll go on off of that.
Justin, how are you feeling?
You got hit by a car not thatlong ago And we just want to ask
how you're doing in general Andwhat was that whole experience
(51:04):
like, if you're feeling liketalking about it.
Justin (51:08):
That was awful, They're hit by a car No.
Michael (51:12):
I have not.
Justin (51:14):
I've been a bike messenger in New York City for
10 years maybe and I've been hitplenty of times, but never like
totally wiped out.
It was scary, you know, like Iwas pretty heavily concussed,
yeah, and it was just like.
(51:35):
You know, that's, it's mylivelihood, it's my way of
experiencing the city.
You know, it's on a bike, it'sI think it's the greatest way to
experience the city.
Until you get fucking KO'd, youknow.
I don't know I could go on aboutit because you know, each week
it's a different kind of vibe,but it is one of those things
(51:57):
that makes you feel grateful oflike all right, i made it to the
other side, i'm still alive, ican still play music, and for me
, coming out of that, you know,and having the conversation
about getting a fourth member,it was one of those things of
like let's not wait anymore,Like let's do the things we said
we were gonna do now.
You know, instead of like maybenext year, maybe next record,
(52:20):
like let's fucking put that tryout meme out there With you know
, like let's do the things.
That it just kind of gives you.
As scary as it is, it gives youthat perspective that, like
life can be gone, like fuckingback you know and do the shit
that you wanna do right now.
And you know my brain was neversuper quick to begin with, but I
(52:45):
think I'm back.
You know it sucks that ithappened the night of a really
rad show.
You know it was the night ofthe Julie Christmas show at St
Vitus.
It was awesome And then, yeah,but thank you for asking, i
think I'm back.
Zen (53:02):
Well, good to have you back And, yeah, I'm glad that you
know you're still able to playmusic and actually, like, do
shows and-.
Justin (53:09):
We got a new guitar out of it.
Zen (53:11):
Yeah, you're like, yeah, just in case we need to sub
somebody in really quick.
Andy's a drummer, so Exactly,yeah, but that's pretty wild.
I mean it's interesting to addthat perspective in general.
I'm sure it's kind of like justchanged that.
It's always interesting to hearabout people who have
experiences like that, becauseyou kind of you can see it in
their eyes.
They're like yeah, thisactually does mean something
(53:33):
like go out, do the shit thatyou actually want to do, because
you can talk to them foreverWith any adversity.
Justin (53:40):
You kind of have two choices, you know pack it up and
fucking quit, or realize whatyou got and go on even harder.
You know.
Zen (53:48):
Yeah, i just have a couple more questions for you guys.
It's been super fun.
What is each of your ideas ofsuccess?
That's the question Where'd hego?
Damn, i looked at him.
Justin (54:02):
Yeah.
Phil (54:03):
You know, it's all.
It's obviously relative.
I think, You know, for me it'salways been getting this music
to as many people as possibleand connecting with people.
I'm not a very, you know,extroverted person, so, like
going to shows, playing shows,is my social time, you know.
(54:26):
And yeah, it's fun connectingwith a random stranger from
somewhere who found your musicon the internet and really loves
your band And it's cool to havethose conversations with people
, and so that's a success initself.
And then, obviously, you know,keeping the business side of
things going, like you know,playing shows, continuing to
(54:48):
tour I think that's really thebiggest goal for us is to
continue to be on the road, andif we can do that, then we're
being successful.
And if that brings, you know,more monetary success as well,
then that's cool.
But ultimately, as long as wecan keep this thing going and
connecting with people, that's asuccess for me.
Zen (55:09):
Yeah, I like that.
How about for you, Justin?
Justin (55:15):
I think you know being able to express yourself
musically, you know, and look ata record or a song and be like
that was exactly what or thatcame out how I wanted it, to
Being able to write that song,that makes you feel a particular
way.
You know, being able to expressyourself through music and feel
is like I didn't know that'swhat I wanted when I started
(55:37):
music.
But it's happened a bunch oftimes.
And like listening to this newrecord, desideria on July 21st
on Monarch Heavy, listening toit, listening to it is like it
gives me that feeling and itmakes me feel like a kid again
And it's like it just kind ofrolls over and it reaffirms of
like why music means so much tome other people's music, my own
(55:59):
music.
And secondly, i think everygirlfriend that I've ever had
has asked me the same questionAnd my answer has always been
like if I can travel the worldthrough music and pay for my
rent, that's success.
You know what I mean.
Like if music can give me thesethings in life and joy and to
(56:22):
see the world and I can comehome and still make rents,
that's cool.
Zen (56:28):
Yeah, that's.
yeah, i like how I'm asking thegirlfriend question.
that's a.
I wrote a song about dude Allright And another kind of the
other side of that is what givesyou any, what gives you doubts
and how do you overcome themwhen it comes to just creating
(56:48):
and putting stuff out there inthe world.
Phil (56:54):
AI, I'm afraid of this AI stuff with.
No, I'm just kidding As far asSorry.
Can you rephrase it a bit?
Zen (57:06):
Yeah.
So if anything gives you kindof doubt about, like putting out
music, do you ever have like amoment where you're like, yeah,
i don't know if, like, what arewe doing?
What are we doing right now?
Are we like still gonna go upin the van?
Like what gives you doubts andhow do you kind of overcome them
in general, There's a ton ofself-doubt.
Phil (57:25):
I think I think any musician would be lying if they
said you know, i just know I'mgonna make it.
You know, It's like and that'skind of the challenging part
about the whole thing isovercoming that.
You know, and some days it'smore prevalent than others.
But I think, like Justin wastouching on it, if you can be
(57:47):
proud of your music, that's justsuch a good first step, you
know.
And if you're questioningwhether you're proud of your
music, you're probably not.
You're either not making theright music or you're doing it
for the wrong reasons And soyeah, that's how I would dodge
those internal thoughts of likeyou know, how are we gonna come
up with this money to pay forthis thing?
(58:08):
for the record Or do you knowlike all that kind of stuff that
goes into the business side ofbeing in a band, like it all has
to start with the music.
for me anyway, Yeah.
Zen (58:20):
Have I just Yeah.
Justin (58:21):
I think you know early on, you like hear or read the
statistic of like .0000001% ofpeople playing music have any
financial gain from it And Ithink I was like, yeah, i like
those odds, you know.
Like you know, if you'retelling me that it's a bad idea
(58:44):
and I can't do it, it makes youwanna do it even more.
Phil (58:47):
Yeah, i'm telling you, there's a chance.
Justin (58:53):
Yeah, it's a Lloyd Christmas mentality dude.
You know I it's such a bad idea.
you know It's such a it makesno sense.
It's such a bad idea, nobodyshould do it, but it's the
funnest thing in the world.
So you know what?
are you living for?
Making, fucking?
you know accounting, doingsomeone's taxes, or are you
(59:16):
trying to like beat the odds,even if they're insurmountable?
Michael (59:21):
Yeah.
Justin (59:22):
So that kind of reality of doubt of like, hey, man, can
we climb this mountain?
Are we gonna go around it or gothrough it?
I like that kind of challenge.
You know It's hard enoughwriting music, you know, Yeah,
it's hard enough to.
But it's even harder to hopethat other people like it too.
(59:46):
Enough that you can keep.
You know you can sustain yourband and the collection of your
mates and fucking keep doing it.
It's the thrill.
The thrill is always worth it.
Zen (01:00:00):
Yeah, i agree.
I think that's well put, wellput.
Well, hey, we're at the endhere.
What, what do you have?
So you have an album coming out.
Why don't you just talk aboutyour tour, talk about your album
coming out.
Give the people what they needto hear.
Phil (01:00:17):
Yeah, we're about to embark on a West Coast tour,
predominantly with Telekinetic,yeti and Thinking Lizaveta, and,
yeah, playing some awesomeshows, and then the end of this
month we're going to be out withZayo and Arsicis, and so two
totally different kinds of tours, really, as far as music goes,
(01:00:37):
and we're excited about that.
And yeah, we have an albumcoming out the 21st, like we
mentioned, new single coming outon the 14th of July.
So, yeah, a lot of stuffhappening.
Zen (01:00:51):
Oh yeah, well, hey, this has been a pleasure getting to
talk to both of you and I hopewe get to meet you guys.
Have a beer with you next showwhen you come to Brooklyn.
Yeah, there's Michael.
Yeah, i really appreciate itguys.
Justin (01:01:07):
Well, we'll have a record release show in August.
End of August.
Yeah, august 26th, that'll bethe next local thing we do, i
think.
So August 26th at Union Pool.
Okay, i guess we can talk aboutthat.
So yeah, we'd love to see youguys there.
Zen (01:01:26):
Yeah, michael, that will be there.
It will.
It's awesome.
That sounds super fun.
Yeah, that's gonna be amazing.
Michael (01:01:32):
We've already canceled all of our other plans in August
Right now.
Yeah, that's what I was doing.
I was trying to screen off.
Zen (01:01:40):
What is it Ty?
Well, cool.
anything else, guys?
Anything else you want tomention before we get off here,
before we get off here?
that should rephrase that.
Before we get off.
the Zoom call Got off before Igot on.
Yeah, that's always good, nicecall and say to mine before a
podcast.
Justin (01:01:58):
Thank you guys for having us Appreciate you
checking out our music, and weappreciate the questions.
I love talking to othermusicians.
It's a lot of fun, so thank youguys.
Zen (01:02:09):
Yeah, absolutely Well, we appreciate you guys And, yeah,
we'll see you soon And we'll bekeeping up with you and we can't
wait for the new album Andwe'll see you when we see you.
Yeah, awesome Thanks, dudes.
Peace out, guys.
Phil (01:02:20):
Take care.
Thanks for being on the show today.
We have Phil from some Nuri,how do you say your last name,
san Jacomo?
San Jacomo, ok, i was good, iwas pretty sure that's how it's
said, but I just didn't want tosound like a total asshole right
out at the beginning.
Phil (00:15):
I've heard all the pronunciations so I wouldn't be
offended.
Zen (00:18):
Yeah, and Justin should be joining us in a bit.
He's a singer and guitarist andsome some Nuri, let's talk
about that.
Where did the band name comefrom?
Because Michael and I weretalking about that And we're
like I have no, i've never heardthat word before.
Phil (00:32):
So we've actually been told by someone who speaks
Romanian that it's.
It's kind of a strange wordeven for that language, and the
best translation I've heard isthat it means sleeps So multiple
times of having slept.
So they slept would be the thecontext, but I could be
(00:54):
butchering that as well, so itat the end of the day, it's
phonetically pleasing.
Zen (01:01):
So it is.
It's pleasing, that is.
that is very true.
That's a.
I like that.
That's kind of like the idea oflike a like a fortnight of
sleeping, just some weird wordthat only makes sense in another
language, right, all in English, and I guess it doesn't even
make so why Romanian?
Oh, hey, look at this.
Player two has entered the chatJustin's here.
Phil (01:20):
That's why they call him Justin Time.
Zen (01:23):
Oh shit, What's up, Justin?
Justin (01:27):
Ha, sorry about the weight.
Zen (01:29):
Oh, you're good.
Justin (01:30):
We're up and running and going.
Awesome.
How are you?
Zen (01:34):
I'm doing great.
How are you doing today?
Justin (01:37):
Lovely.
Michael (01:38):
Where are you?
Zen (01:40):
Where are you?
Justin (01:41):
right now I'm on my roof .
Zen (01:43):
Hell yeah, it looks nice.
I thought you were like CentralPark or something like that,
but that's not a boulder, that's, that's just a chimney behind
you or whatever that is.
I'm just waiting for the smoketo roll on.
So we were just talking aboutSubnery and the name of the band
, and I guess how it meanssleeps in Romanian is that's
what he said All right It's.
Justin (02:05):
You agree with that?
Yeah, it's one of the rougherquestions to answer, you know,
because it's a good band name.
I like to just lie and make updifferent meanings after every
time somebody asked me.
Zen (02:19):
Yeah, totally, You can just say we just made it up to you.
I would have been like, yeah,totally, That makes sense too.
I mean, I would say for thisgenre people do make a lot of
names and just people just gowith it.
Phil (02:30):
So but the fact that it has a name that resembles
something else in anotherlanguage.
Zen (02:34):
You don't want to be that asshole and be like yeah, we
made that up, right, yeah, well,cool, hey, thanks for being on
the show, guys.
Let's just go from the verystart.
How did, how did Subnery startas a band?
When was the originalorigination?
Justin (02:52):
The twenty fifteen.
Phil (02:55):
Yeah, right around there Twenty fifteen Shared adjacent
practice spaces and knew eachother from playing in bands.
Justin had a bunch of guitarideas, As I mentioned before the
podcast started rolling.
He is also a drummer and agreat musician and had a bunch
of cool song ideas and wanted totry playing guitar in a band
(03:19):
for once.
Michael (03:21):
OK cool.
Justin (03:23):
So I got I demoed out of maybe five songs drums, bass
and guitar And it was awful.
I was like I absolutely need adrummer who can do it.
It was weird, like I could playdrums in anybody else's band
but I couldn't play drums in myown band, you know, to my own It
was weird.
Zen (03:43):
Why do you think that is?
You think you were just almosttrying to like show up yourself
and like kind of overdo it, orwas it just some other weird
mental block?
Justin (03:50):
I think I had all these kind of preconceived notions of
what the drums should do Andthen I went to do it.
I was like I can't even do this.
It was just I don't know, andit kind of felt a little
pretentious too, like I'm notready for the one man solo
record that I play everything onYou know someday, totally, but
it was not.
I wasn't there.
So it was really nice to hearwhat Phil and putting over a lot
(04:14):
of it was way different ideasthan what I would imagine the
drums to be doing.
Phil (04:19):
So it's worked out.
So you didn't.
So you didn't have enough fills, is what you're saying.
Justin (04:24):
I was one fill short.
Zen (04:27):
Oh yeah, Just in time, we got one fill short.
You guys are all freakingpunning out today.
I love that You're fire, i'llsell it.
Justin (04:34):
So I'm telling them I was just in time, i'm right.
Zen (04:38):
It was right, as you were joining it.
You know I had a good laugh.
Michael (04:41):
Yeah, wow, i mean you had a really good face there And
that was like at least like youwere caught in, like a forever
smile And then just gone.
Zen (04:52):
Well, i can't, i can't help that.
Just a smile.
Oh good, welcome back.
Hey, thank you very much.
Welcome back to my own show.
Ok, where the hell was I?
I really threw me off.
Michael (05:04):
Oh yeah, So you guys.
Zen (05:06):
Yeah, you guys got.
Yes, you just adjacent studios.
You're both together playinganother band.
Are you both from New York orBrooklyn?
Well, from upstate New York,Western New York, OK, cool, And
you guys moved down here.
It was was your whole goal kindof to be musicians You can
answer separately or together?
Was that kind of what youwanted to do down here?
Phil (05:27):
I don't think it was a goal, so much as something I
needed to do and, withoutsounding too pretentious and
needed to get get into adifferent scene.
Where we're from, there's not ahuge pool of musicians.
I mean, there's a lot of goodmusicians, but maybe for this
type of stuff I was trying to do, i needed to expand.
So I desperately wanted to getinto a bigger scene And, yeah,
(05:51):
immediately you start meetingpeople, you go to shows.
There's a show happening everynight, multiple shows happen
every night, so it's pretty cool.
Justin (05:59):
Yeah, what about you, justin?
I lived in.
I moved from upstate, i'm closeto Central New York And I had
moved to Boston.
I was playing in the band,moved to Boston, lived there for
four years And it was fun.
It definitely got my feet wet.
I think it was nice to move to asmaller city before just
(06:20):
jumping right into New York.
And then when I moved to NewYork, it was definitely like
wanted to find a band to playdrums in.
I'd only played drums in bandsprior to that And it was really
hard And I think it was reallyintimidating too of like man,
all these bands I would go tryout for really fucking good.
And so I ended up doing likesinger, songwriter, acoustic
(06:43):
stuff, and it really was likethe most challenging thing.
It was this scariest thing,being a solo dude with a guitar
in front of people, like youknow.
But I'm glad I did it.
I think it ended up giving methe confidence that I could use
later to, you know, start a bandand play guitar in a band, you
know.
But yeah, i moved here to playmusic and just kind of didn't
(07:06):
know what I was getting myselfinto, but glad I did, you know.
Zen (07:09):
Yeah, that's.
that's super cool.
I love how, instead of justlike trying out for a bunch of
bands, you're like I just got togo to an open mic.
Screw it This guy, go for theguitar.
Justin (07:18):
Was doing like five open mics a week and sometimes two
or three a night It was.
It was awesome.
And it's kind of that hustlingmentality too, of like sometimes
you get shows out of it.
Sometimes you meet like minormusicians and that's actually
where I met a musician Andthey're like yeah, i actually
play metal and we're looking fora drummer.
I was like there it is.
(07:39):
I did it.
Zen (07:40):
You're never going to believe this, yeah.
Justin (07:44):
Like well, you just sing sensitive songs about
heartbreak, yeah, yeah.
Zen (07:52):
That's hilarious.
I love that.
So who who does like?
where does the idea for thewriting kind of come in with
this stuff?
Because I guess you were.
You were writing songs before.
How does the whole band dynamicwork for you guys in Sumnery?
Justin (08:09):
Well, i think I think it's always evolving too, right?
I mean the first record, i feellike I had all those songs,
most most of the songs I had.
Basically the songs are atleast good skeletons for, and
that was our first record.
The second record was you knowideas and Phil helping assemble
and like really help write thesongs of like.
(08:30):
you know this part, you knowit's like we don't need 20
minute songs.
and then this this past recordwas was you know even more of
that, and Phil bringing inguitar ideas as well and more
lyric writing, more melody oflike.
you know how maybe some vocalmelodies might work or different
(08:51):
ideas, right?
So the collaboration is kept,kept blossoming.
you know more and more, eachrecord, each song, really.
Zen (09:01):
Yeah, what about you, phil?
So I get it says, at least onyour Spotify, that you're also
the producer of Sumnery.
What does it mean to kind of bea producer, be the drummer in
the band?
What is your role?
Is it like a?
I don't know any and allthoughts for that.
Phil (09:18):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not like producing in the sense of, you
know, like Rick Rubin sitting onthe couch saying yes or no.
It's more the actual recordingproduction and just kind of you
know, tracking vocals, trackingguitars, getting the best takes
out of us, and myself included.
So I'm kind of producing myselfin a way too, doing a lot of
(09:41):
pre-production for the records.
You know, tempo mapping,everything.
So it's a lot of like you knowstuff that saves us racking up a
huge recording budget at theend of the day.
And then, yeah, I have a goodidea of what you know vocals and
where things should sit, andand, yeah, like Justin said,
(10:02):
we're always evolving with itand whatever we can do, DIY on
our own before we start.
You know, spending money isideal.
So, whether we're creating themusic we want to create and not
being constrained by budgets andtime and all that kind of stuff
, Yeah, i absolutely agree withthat.
Zen (10:21):
I think that's always the best way to go into the studio.
It's really funny gettingcalled to record and nobody has
anything ready.
And the engineer althoughthey're getting paid a lot of
money, they're still just likeguys like yeah you're not really
here.
Phil (10:36):
I have.
I've heard all the horrorstories from friends where the
band is paid for the time andthey don't even have any of the
parts written and it's just likethey're just sitting there to
stand still.
Zen (10:47):
So yeah, it's not the 70s anymore where, like you, could
just like hang around in astudio and just do a bunch of
blow and you know so much weedand then just like hope that
something will come out Well you, can You can do that.
You can.
Justin (11:01):
You can do anything if you put your mind to it.
Zen (11:04):
Sure, yeah, never mind, you're right, you're right.
So so you guys recorded both ofyour albums at Studio G and I
was just kind of starting toread up on Studio G But I didn't
want to do too much, butapparently it's more or less
like a legendary spot for a lotof musicians.
And why is that?
(11:24):
And why is it What makes it sogood?
Phil (11:29):
Well, the gear is obviously, you know, kind of
first and foremost like what arethey working with, what are the
room sound like.
But Justin had this friend,jeff Berner, who works there,
and that was kind of the allureof the first couple of records
is go track with someone we knowAnd he just made it really
smooth, really easy And and then, like I said, we kind of do
(11:53):
guitars and vocals ourselves totake a little more time with it.
But Studio G has always beenvery comfortable And, like I
said, you know, top, top notchgear and the room sound great.
This record we went toSilvercore, which is Gojira's
home base and Joe's studio, andit was.
(12:14):
It was awesome.
We just needed a change.
You know something different.
Yeah but it was awesome.
Zen (12:19):
Yeah, and your Diablo is coming out July 21st, is that
right?
We got it.
And Desiderium, what's the?
what's the meaning behind thatname?
Did you guys make that word up,or is that a?
Phil (12:35):
go ahead.
Zen (12:35):
Justin.
Justin (12:36):
A bunch of vowels.
No, i think the definition islike tense longing, you know,
some other thing was like someother things that I was reading
about.
I can't remember how I cameabout it, but it was like this
Irish poem.
I want to say something likethat, but it was the sense of
(12:58):
longing for, specifically for ahome that you never really had,
i think was the first definitionthat I'd seen was like whoa,
you know, and it kind of tiedinto a lot of the themes and the
record of like you know, areyou longing for this life that
hasn't existed or that you don'tknow that hasn't happened yet?
(13:19):
You know, this kind of like loopof like I get too heady, but
it's like what is life, you know?
what is what is our lifeexperience, you know?
are we, are we, are we livingit now?
Are we waiting, you know?
are we just constantly hustlingto wait to live?
You know there's can go onforever, you know, and it always
kind of the meaning kind ofevolves over time.
(13:41):
to the more I listen to some ofthe songs and even lyrics that
I wrote, i'll be like holy shit,that means something different,
you know.
I think that's when you knowit's, it's fun and people can
interpret a lot of the lyricsand different themes the way
they want to, and I love musicthat does that.
you know it's not so like this,is it?
this is what it means, nothingelse.
Michael (14:02):
Yeah.
Zen (14:04):
I love that idea of like what is this thing that I feel
like I'm missing from my life,but you have no idea what it is
because you just kind of exactly, yeah, that's the human, that's
the human condition in general.
Yeah, grass is always greener,but yeah, they got what?
what if it's not even grassyou're looking at?
Justin (14:22):
Yeah, the hurry up and wait, you know.
yeah, that's all those thingsof what do we in such a rush for
?
Let's just live the life rightnow, while we have it, you know,
yeah.
Zen (14:33):
We're all gonna back.
So I would say you, would yousay you write most of the lyrics
, or is this like kind of a moreof a band effort for the stuff
or your music?
Justin (14:44):
Just record I wrote all the lyrics, you know, and each
record it becomes more you know,builds very on top of that
stuff of kind of like all right,you know, what is.
What is this about?
What you know?
do these lyrics make sense?
Is this a real word?
You know, but it's really kindof, you know, helped, i don't
(15:10):
know.
Everybody looks at lyrics in adifferent way and this, this
record, even more so.
I think it was a little bit onthe farthest way, but let's this
record even more so, ofbringing in lyrical themes.
You know, whole verses, youknow, and I think it brings out
the best for the song.
When you, when you havemultiple ideas, like, is that
(15:30):
better than this?
You know it's always aboutwhat's the best idea.
When it's not, whose idea isthat kind of thing, you know?
Zen (15:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
And what other sort of thingswere different between this
album you just recorded and yourlast two other than you know,
changing the, changing the spacewhere you recorded it?
What other sort of things havechanged along your you know your
band journey since 2015?
Phil (16:01):
We're on a different label now, so we got signed to
Monarch.
Michael (16:04):
Heavy.
Phil (16:06):
And, yeah, very excited to work with them and put this
thing out And I would say, morethan anything, recording wise,
we went with an engineer to mixthis time, which you know was a
little different in the past Ihad, i had mixed the records and
knew they could be much better.
So it was cool to work with,you know, a friend and colleague
(16:27):
and Justin Mantuth at West EndStudios in Kansas City And I've
done a bunch of projects withhim and it was like, man, we
need, we need pro ears on thisthis time and wanted to take the
vocal recording to the nextlevel and, you know, production
in general, just step it up.
Yeah, i was the songwriting,like Justin was saying.
Zen (16:49):
I mean I'm surprised you did all.
I mean the other two albumssound amazing, so that's pretty
crazy that you're doing most ofthe mixing on that.
Thank you.
Justin (16:58):
Yeah, so I mean.
another thing that wasdifferent too is like using, at
least for guitars, like thefirst two records, we just used
my guitar amp through a cabright And that was, you know,
and we layered and we you knowkind of stacked and whatever.
But this this time, you know,being in Go Jira studio, is like
(17:18):
what's that amp sound like?
What's that?
amp sound like You know was ableto kind of like have a little
more fun and have that studioexperience too with with some
different options.
I thought was was really youknow, it was fun, you know, and
that's what it's all about.
Zen (17:32):
Yeah, so if you get to actually have fun doing it,
everything's going to come outbetter.
That's super, super cool.
That sounds like you guys had areally good experience.
How long have you beenrecording this album Or, i guess
, writing, recording wholeprocess?
Phil (17:49):
The recording was about probably two months.
We were in the studio for howmany days, Justin Four?
Justin (17:58):
Yeah, but really you know three, yeah, yeah three and
a half.
Yeah, three and a half, Yeah,cause man two left us hanging.
No, yeah, yeah.
Phil (18:10):
It's called four.
Zen (18:12):
Wait four days.
Phil (18:13):
Yeah, Yeah, So four days of tracking, And then obviously
there was more days.
We track bass in our own studioand vocals as well.
So we took we take the longesttime to record the vocals, make
sure it's right, Make sure it's,you know, feels good, feels
natural, And and then.
But as far as songwriting andJustin always has ideas, I have
(18:36):
ideas.
We, you know, we kind of likesit on demos for a while and
I'll take his guitar riffs andtry to come up with some beats
by myself or together, You know.
So the ideas are always flowingAnd I think probably over the
course of two years or so wewere working on the ideas.
But the songs came togetherwith vocals and lyrics pretty,
(18:59):
pretty quickly in the last month, really before it was due.
Zen (19:03):
Yeah.
Michael (19:04):
Yeah.
Zen (19:04):
Wow, i have a question about that.
I'm I'm currently involved inrecording like an EP right now,
but it's probably the mostinvolved I've been with an EP.
Usually I'm so I'm a drummerand usually I just I'm a hired
gun, so I'm like pretty farremoved from any of that.
But as I write more with myfriends for what we're working
(19:26):
on like.
I'm realizing there's so manysongs that we don't use.
Would you say you use most ofthe songs that you write, or are
you just constantly come upwith new ideas?
How far along do you get in asong before you abandon it?
Any thoughts on that?
This is a personal question,just curious about it.
Sure.
Phil (19:45):
I don't think they ever get abandoned.
I think you know there's songson this record, like I said,
that have been.
You know the structure or theriffs have been around for a
couple of years And maybe itjust didn't, or maybe even like
a riff, like one riff that wason a cell phone that you know I
have buried somewhere in myphone.
I'm like man, i know there'sthis awesome riff in there.
(20:05):
I just have to search throughhundreds of recordings to find
that one.
And so, yeah, there's alwaysideas.
But I think yeah, sorry, i lostmy train of thought there I
think, yeah, there's alwaysideas, and it takes time, man,
it's just like nothing is everdead.
I think we always have like asong that doesn't make the
(20:27):
record because of the length ofthe vinyl and we end up using it
like coils.
There's a song we released lastJuly and it was just too long
and weird to fit on the lastrecord, but it needed it.
It needed to see the light ofday.
Michael (20:43):
Yeah.
Zen (20:43):
That's cool to think of it like that.
So you obviously haveconstraints with vinyl, which I
think is just what.
Is it Like?
42 minutes can go on on vinyl,i forget.
There's like some weird numbersand like that Something like
that 21, 22 aside.
Justin (20:58):
I think You don't want the degradation happening.
You want the sonic quality toto withhold, you want to
compress everything just to fit30 songs on a record.
I think it's also kind of goodfor us too, like, all right,
let's not put on 15 songs atnine minutes length.
You know it's like it's.
It's a hindrance sometimes tobe like oh man, how long is this
(21:22):
song?
Do we need to edit them downwithin the songwriting process.
You know it's kind of a weirdtask.
Like we had one song or twosongs that didn't make this
record, that we reported one.
All right, which, yeah prettyawesome Yeah.
(21:42):
Well, i know that's kind ofalways the goal of like let's
write the songs as full aspossible and feel good and we'll
make that decision later.
You know, like the like, thelike, the parts, you know it's
like the best songs make therecord and the songs that fit
the kind of motif and everythingthat makes the record.
Yeah, i always kind of lookforward to stumbling across
those old riffs that didn't makethe cut.
(22:03):
But Paylice from this recordwas at the fourth song That had.
You know, we kind of had thewhole song from like our first
record and Just kind of forgotabout it.
It was like just chilling thereas a full song and I remember
coming across it go like whoa,it's actually pretty cool.
(22:24):
We should try and resurrect itand do something with it And
it's, you know, it's one of thefunner songs to play.
Yeah.
Zen (22:33):
Yeah, what?
actually?
I was gonna say that too.
What do you think is a For bothof you?
what do you think your favoritesong to play live is at the
moment?
if you have one, one, two,three go.
Phil (22:45):
Man, i Mean I always love playing new stuff.
So it's, you know, i It's notthat I get sick of the old songs
, but you know, obviously if youplayed it a bunch, live you.
You want to do somethingdifferent.
So I really like playingremnants And I also like playing
paramedesia.
It's, it's a single we're aboutto release and it's just really
(23:10):
big and sludgy and just fun andit's a Tickles my fancy.
Justin (23:18):
That's a tickler the rift.
There's the two previoussingles.
I was gonna say was what a wayto go?
and that's the beginning.
Both of those just feel likeThey're just fun rock songs, you
know, each you know, and I havea solo in one, which I don't
usually played solos, but it'slike my time to shine.
I got a solo, but they're bothjust like high energy, like I
(23:43):
feel.
Like You know, we've only beenplaying them live since May, so
the run that we just did, youknow, i think we've only played
them live Five, five or six,maybe seven shows and each time
it's like, man, i can't wait toplay this tomorrow.
Or, you know, like we're aboutto go on through, i can't wait
to play this for a monthstraight.
(24:03):
And you know, like those, thosetwo first singles, i'm really
enjoying playing right now.
Zen (24:09):
Hell Yeah, i mean I can't wait to see him live on the
whenever I get that chance.
Another question you have, likeYou have like six to eight
different voices that you use Inseminary, which is I.
In my opinion, how the hell doyou like had developed your,
(24:33):
your voice and like kind ofbeing articulate in different
ways?
and Because, like I would loveto you were talking about
earlier, you used to have like20 minute versions of these
songs or you used to writereally long-ass songs.
So I feel like you're, you're,you should go all over the place
.
So how did you kind of startlearning to sing in all these
different ways?
or you know any and allthoughts I Thought we were
(24:55):
talking about drums here.
Phil (25:05):
You sing like a drum.
No, i mean.
Michael (25:09):
I don't want you to start overthinking it now.
Zen (25:11):
That would suck I.
Justin (25:14):
Don't know.
I just, i consider it, you know, there's They're singing and
then they're screaming and thenthere's an in-between, but I
don't know it's.
It's kind of like what it justhappens for whatever the part
calls for.
You know and I don't reallyhave an answer for that like
(25:36):
Thank you, i guess it makes mesound like I have multiple
personalities or something.
I have six to eight differentpersonalities And I guess that
it kind of feels like that too.
You know, you're kind ofChanneling a particular emotion.
When it comes to screams, youknow, there's like kind of a
higher thrashy scream and thenthere's sometimes like gutter,
(25:59):
old doom, stuff, but reallywhatever is happening in the
part, that just kind of Yeah, idon't know how we, how do we do
that?
You're the producer, yeah.
Phil (26:10):
I mean, to me that's, that's what makes the band
interesting.
I wouldn't, i Wouldn't be sointerested in being in this kind
of band It wasn't for Justin'svocals I think you know this the
Like you said, the type ofscream you know, like if I love
hardcore, i love death metal,but like having to do the same
kind of scream over and over.
(26:31):
And obviously it's evolving.
There's so many good vocalistsout there.
The dude from Lorna short has somany like crazy things he can
do with his voice, and Even likea Mike Patton, you know,
someone who could just like, inany second turn, turn on a dime
and be a different character, adifferent person.
And we've actually beencriticized for it a little bit
(26:52):
too.
We've been called faceless, butsome Almost almost isn't like
where's the identity of thesinger, where's the identity of
the frontman or whatever, andit's just like that's just not
what we do.
We, like Justin said we cateredto the part and try to, and,
yeah, when we're recording we'relike What's gonna work the best
(27:13):
over this part, you know, andwhat's conveying the emotion
we're trying to convey?
Zen (27:18):
Yeah, i mean you could really see the amount of work
you guys put into The recordingprocess when you watch live
videos, like and that's, i thinkbecause you said you spent so
much time on the vocals to getit Right, but I mean it's very
like clear and you have likejust so many small sections
where the voice and the Like,the feeling, changes and it's
like you guys are like morphingthis story.
(27:39):
So, anyway, that's, that's myteam There you go.
Thank you.
Michael (27:44):
Yeah absolutely.
Zen (27:46):
Uh, i would like to talk about some drum stuff, because
it's rare that we have a drummeron, let alone two drummers on,
you, so it looks out to be bothabout gear for a second.
This is when people willusually a You know, chime, chime
off the podcast, so we mightkeep the abbreviated.
So you use some big-ass symbols.
(28:09):
What are you?
What are you rocking for yourshows?
Phil (28:12):
Oh, I Guess they're.
I guess they're big relatively.
I Got 15 inch hats, hhx hats,they say Dave Weckel on
underneath the top one, which isa kind of cool, i guess.
And then I got a 19 inch aax onmy left, 20 inch Aax on my
(28:39):
right.
Explosion crash, a 20 inch ride.
I kind of like a Ride I cancrash on.
I crash on that a lot.
That's an HHX evolution.
And then I got this Holy ohzone thing from shabian as well.
The Kind of the effects, quickcrash, if you will yeah, go
(29:05):
ahead.
Zen (29:05):
What are you rocking for drums?
Phil (29:08):
I got Thomas star classics walnut birch and, yeah, i just
got this kit this year.
I haven't had a new drum set inlike 10 years, so I was like
You know, coming out with a newrecord.
We're gonna be doing some, somemore touring this year and Yeah
, took the plunge.
Yeah and I got a.
How is it brass snare it rules.
(29:32):
Can't think of a star chronic.
Zen (29:35):
Yeah, those are, those are super rad.
Phil (29:37):
I see the scheme is on those drums, the color scheme.
It's kind of like a I Don'tknow it's like a forest green
with some with some charcoal inthere.
It's weird looking.
I like it cool Justin.
Zen (29:54):
What was, what was your very first drum kit or What
first drums that you played on?
I was like this question.
Cardboard boxes.
Justin (30:03):
Yeah, the first real drum set I got was a CB, cnb or
whatever.
And Can we swear on here?
Oh, I've been swearing so yeah,my friend came over and it was
like the first day I had a CNBright on the bass drum and he
(30:24):
wrote cock and balls.
I'm gonna see and be like dudeand I don't see like play shows.
And my bass drum said cock andballs.
Like you know, like come on man, like there was no way I could
get.
It was a CB.
Yeah, it was awesome and it wasjust a two rack tom floor, tom
(30:50):
kick, and then I I played bassin the high school jazz band and
like every rehearsal I wouldlike I would take a symbol and
I'll take a stand.
Eventually I've worked up allthese symbols.
It was, you know, they werelike the older zilder gyms with
no prints, like you couldn'teven tell That there was zilder
(31:12):
and it was like little tinyprints.
Yeah, that was my first kid andI think we ended up like
burning it or something.
Zen (31:22):
That's pretty fun.
Rocked the cockaball is drumset.
Justin (31:25):
It's gone, so like I'll stay reg next shit, yeah, yeah.
Zen (31:32):
What, what were both of your kind of first bands like
what was a, where were youstarting off?
and it's like first memorableshows for both of you.
Phil (31:43):
We'll start with you, phil first memorable shows Probably
this battle, the bands of myband, one pretty cool and
Rochester, new York, and it wasextremely New-medley.
Justin (32:01):
The only way yeah.
Phil (32:04):
How old are you?
I was 15 and the dude whoplayed guitar was a senior and
and He actually ended up makingJustin guitar.
So it's kind of all come fullcircle.
I grew up playing with that guyand We were so stoked we like
drove back from this battle, thebands like probably beat a
(32:25):
bunch of 30 year olds and likeEveryone was pissed at us.
You know, at the end of it,like when they announced us,
everyone was like who the fuckis that band?
and Yeah, we got out of therefast and drove home and we're
super stoked.
It's made the, made the localpaper and everything rock on.
Zen (32:44):
Wait, did you say your bandmate made a guitar for
Justin?
Is that?
Phil (32:49):
so he.
So he ended up getting intoguitar building.
And What's the?
Zen (32:54):
right word for that.
What's it?
Yeah, it's like that doucheyname for it.
Yeah, yeah, sorry, go on, he'sa luthier, yeah there you go.
Michael (33:09):
So yeah, so what you?
Zen (33:10):
made a guitar for him.
What was, what the hell?
Phil (33:13):
how that so he just got into building guitars and like
he makes sort of like Gibsonstyle guitars and has the The
permits to do so and he justlike, but he like, he fucks it
all up.
He like takes a design that youknow a less ball purist would
be like what the fuck is thatthing You know?
(33:33):
and he makes it his own and andso I brought you know his
guitars and, justin, i said yougot to check this guy's shit out
.
He makes really cool stuff.
I bet he would make you abaritone, which is Justin's jam
now.
And, yeah, he just did a wholecustom process.
Justin, you can tell him howyou Are.
(33:54):
You guys came up with thedesign and everything.
Well, I got bored quickly.
Justin (34:06):
Make it cool.
Oh Anyway, i got into baritoneguitars.
I don't know our old bassplayer also.
He kind of like Frankensteinguitars together and would
always bring in these hideousthings.
Some of us.
We ended up bringing one thatwas a bass, a bucket head,
bucket head, baritone white SG.
(34:28):
It was awesome, it was so cooland But it was Frankenstein
together, just wasn't built verywell, but it sounded great and
the like neck felt great.
So when Matt Matt banker frombanker custom guitar.
When he hit me up like MattHughes yep, sorry, that's not
(34:49):
his real name, matt Hughes frombanker custom guitar.
Like dude, let's, let's makeyou a guitar, let's make you a
proper one of a kind baritonethat It's never been done before
.
I can.
Yeah, i really like the neckand the radius of the bucket
head SG.
So I think I gave him the specsof that and he's like well,
(35:10):
what kind of wood do you want?
I have no idea.
And he ended up getting thisHonduran sinker mahogany.
I guess he has like a guy inHonduras who dives into rivers
and like pulls these trees thathave been in the mud for like
300 years and gets the wood andmakes guitars out of them.
And it was like, yeah, let's dothat.
(35:30):
Yeah, like It was really, youknow the, the?
only legal totally legal, yeah,and it's I think it's You know,
and that's the, I think, theresponsible way, because it's
like I don't think that would.
You can't harvest that woodanymore, you know.
It's like Corina and that kindof mahogany.
I don't think you can cut downthose trees anymore unless
(35:51):
you're a piece of shit.
So, like you know, he's likethe loophole is getting that
shit that's fallen into a riverand has been like Preserved,
being in mud for hundreds ofyears.
That sounded super cool andthen he kind of You know, we
talked about this before, youknow, we talked about color
schemes and like let's just goone pickup, let's, you know.
(36:13):
And he's like we, you know, wewent back and forth, i don't
know, 20 times about this, thatand the other.
It's kind of like you're theexpert dude, just build it and
make sure it looks awesome.
Yeah, it's like I feel like areal guitar player having that
thing you know I don't feel likea drummer playing guitar.
Zen (36:33):
Yeah, you're like this is made for me.
So guy to go down losers.
So what's the thing?
so baritone is usually whatthey use for I mean, that's like
the surf rock.
Yeah, I know.
Justin (36:49):
Western stuff.
They're typically in B standard, you know.
But yeah, i'm surprised thatmore people who tuned down to
like B and a and beyond don'tuse that.
I mean, it was longer, it's,that's the same.
It's basically like a fire, aGibson firebird body shape, but
(37:09):
it's like the exact same size ofthe Thunderbird, which is the
base.
Yeah, it's fucking huge.
Anyway, it's awesome.
I can talk about that guitar ona drum podcast all day.
Zen (37:21):
Yeah.
Oh I mean, that sounds sick asfuck.
That's cool.
Yeah, that whole connection andIt's a you know goes all the
way back to the battle, thebands.
I'm glad I asked about yourfirst band.
How about you?
How about you, justin?
Justin (37:36):
Oh, really like the first shows we were playing,
like we played at a few Venuesand Syracuse and we're just, you
know, we didn't know what we'redoing, we're terrible.
It just, you know, so unfair,like we didn't know how we did
the thing where we'd like set upon stage, it, set up the drums
(37:57):
on stage and tear down like onesimple.
You know we were like suchnerds and But we started doing
like graduation parties and likebirthday parties in the summer.
That ruled, like it was such agreat, like playing outside is
the best and like you know, it'slike Half covers, half
(38:19):
originals.
You know we were playing Godsmack the pop approach, you know
the good shit And like those tome were just like there was so
much fun, you know, and reallykind of was like I don't know
it's so fun and and you'rereally like I want to, i want to
(38:39):
take this the next step furtherand that you, you kind of I'll
grow people who are like I justwant to play God smack covers,
man, you know.
Zen (38:48):
You gotta give way.
Yeah, what's that song?
whatever or whatever.
Yeah, that's not good.
I mean some of those first.
So those first.
You know, fucking new metalalbums are just.
They're just icing on the cakeAnd I feel like new metal is
almost having a resurgence rightnow.
The stomach's not 100%, which Inever thought I was gonna say
(39:10):
probably like six years ago, butit's kind of bad.
Phil (39:14):
It was a.
It was a dirty word for a whileand It's definitely make it
made it come back and we weplayed a show and and Right
after we got done there was anew metal night and it was like
a ton of fucking kids and likeWe're like, hey, we got some new
metal influence in our music,or you might like it.
They're like, yeah, whateverWe're here to, we're here to
(39:36):
dance to fucking saliva and cornand And whatever right.
Justin (39:43):
But yeah, there's like 2122 this all.
It's like you weren't evenalive when new metal happened,
like it was so weird to see, soyeah.
Phil (39:54):
Yeah.
Michael (39:55):
I see my name is on those shows right.
Right.
Zen (39:58):
Yeah.
Michael (39:59):
I guess.
Justin (40:00):
I'm gonna go to one Do it my own.
Phil (40:03):
My only hang up was that they were like selling the band
shirts there, ah, and I was like.
I was like, wait a minute, thisis like a black market, like a
bootleg version of the MarilynManson shirt or the or the
deftone shirt or whatever.
Like What's going on here.
What's this operation yourunning here, miss?
Justin (40:23):
deck didn't give you the rights to that.
Zen (40:28):
Although it is st Vitus though.
So, honestly, if any, if anyvenue in the world could pull
that off or get the rights tosell their shit, it would be st
Vitus but, yeah it was thepromoters.
Michael (40:37):
Yeah, yeah, it wasn't the venue was.
Phil (40:40):
It was some, it was the promoters.
But yeah, whatever, man, aslong as kids are into heavy
music, it doesn't matter.
You know you can't be agatekeeper or a leadist.
You know That's how they'rediscovering.
That's how I discovered heaviermusic.
You know I was like listen todeath sounds and stuff and then
and then found the sugar orwhatever it's it's it's.
It's cool to see.
Zen (41:02):
Yeah, have you?
have you both seen Michigan?
But?
Michael (41:08):
oh yeah, no you're not seeing them what.
Justin (41:14):
I mean, I'm taking you on a date next time.
We play Oz best early 2000s.
Zen (41:22):
Yeah, did they.
I don't know, probably they did.
Michael (41:29):
If they did, they did, they did, they did.
There's a.
There's a beautiful video ofthem playing new millennium
cyanide Christ, like in 2001, toa bunch of people who have no
idea what they are about to getinto, and amazing, i Yeah, truly
.
Justin (41:46):
Yeah, well, i Went to all those Oz Fests like 99
through 2004, so if they playedI probably had seen them, but I
probably had to shit my pantsand leave if I saw them, you
know.
Zen (42:01):
What is happening quicker than usual at an Oz fest.
Yeah, i mean they're.
They're insane live.
I actually never heard of thembefore.
I saw them at aftershockfestival and I just remember
hearing them in the way distanceAnd I was like what the fuck is
that?
it sounded like just aperpetual earthquake, quick
happening at this festival andit was drawn to it like some
(42:23):
weird fly.
Yeah, anyway, i mean just fordrummers to.
It's like there's justabsolutely Yeah, and it's good.
It's good it.
They're kind of a little Iwouldn't say mainstream.
But you know bill Burr thecomedian.
He's always talking about whatshook it.
Now It's just such a weirdthing.
Yeah, that's our he's.
Phil (42:45):
He's got some pretty cool tastes, you know yeah, i mean
he's out with David.
Zen (42:49):
She's like my guy, that's like my, my I went to musicians
Institute and he would come allthe time and I bought scores.
We've talked to a few times butI mean he fucking trains that
guy.
So, uh, cool Maybe it was justthe shit.
Yeah, he's great man.
Yeah, okay.
Oh man, i had a really goodquestion.
(43:10):
Where the hell did it go?
Oh Yeah, you guys held trials.
You have now four members, soyou added Chris.
I was what made you decide youwanted to kind of expand the
sound, and what was the ideabehind that and how to try out
scope.
Phil (43:27):
So I mean, we had never done anything like a tryout, We
had never even really advertisedthat we were looking for
someone else.
But I think we both knew thatwe wanted an additional member
since the early days.
It was, you know, and then wegot kind of got labeled as this
sort of power trio or butultimately we always knew there
(43:52):
needed to be another layer thereand another musician Really.
And once we found out Chris wasa drummer as well, it sealed
the deal.
Justin (44:02):
You're hitting the you play drums too getting this band
.
Phil (44:06):
But you know, seriously, it's like he has a great.
He has a great sense of rhythmAnd he's very tight with his
playing and it's awesome.
But I think it.
You know, that's what's always.
You know, justin writes greatriffs, but he's also like a very
tight player And so having twoguys now playing the same riff
very tightly is awesome.
(44:26):
It's a stereo wall of sound.
Justin (44:30):
Yeah, yeah.
It's certainly something that Ithink we we intended to have
from the very beginning And itjust never did.
You know, it was three of usand it was like, all right,
we're rolling.
You know, it was hard enough tokeep consistent bass players in
the band that.
You know.
Especially after this record,it was like we're going to need
(44:53):
someone else.
You know, a lot of times ifthere was a difference, harmony
or something happened on arecord, i would use a loop pedal
and try and play one thing andthen play the other.
It's really, you know, i thinkit could be done, not by me
necessarily, but like it wasjust one of those things, like
(45:15):
we need to really expand andkind of represent this record
where there is more of thathappening and go all the way.
You know just kind of where wewere with our band, of like
let's, let's do the thing thatwe've said we're always going to
do, let's get some fresh bloodin here and kind of shake up our
band and kind of like it reallyhas been like really
(45:37):
re-envigorating for us and likehaving, you know, another guy
that won't stop playing guitarwhen Phil's trying to talk.
Phil (45:48):
If I hear one more pinch harmonic.
Zen (45:53):
You guys are all drummers too, so you're just like playing
right over each other just onyour respective instruments,
whatever you got.
Who can come up with the samething?
Michael (46:01):
Yeah.
Zen (46:03):
What is a?
I mean after band practice withthe 3V there, do you, justin?
you always just try to jump onthe drums a little bit before
you leave.
Justin (46:12):
I'm not telling you.
Phil (46:16):
Damn.
Michael (46:17):
So, you are playing my drums, i know that comes out at
four.
Justin (46:26):
He pulls out the measuring tape.
There's a ding in my stick.
It's just three six things off.
I haven't played drums since Idon't know.
It's been a while.
I got a nine year old son and Itake him over to our studio
(46:46):
over our practice space, like ona rainy day or something like
just to let him fucking go nuts.
I got a set of extra cymbals sohe could smash the shit out of
him.
You can see him tonight.
But I love playing drums andnever say never.
But like you know, i just loveplaying guitar and drums are so
(47:10):
much fun.
I feel like that's whereeverybody should try to play
drums in their life at somepoint.
You know, i feel like guitarplayers, better guitar players.
Bass players better bass players.
Singers it's gonna be better ifyou've got a little drums in
your life.
You know it's so primitive andso like that instant
gratification when you, when youfuck and hit that groove and
(47:31):
you're slamming.
There's nothing like it.
A pinch harmonic is pretty cool.
Zen (47:39):
Yeah yeah, that's a great.
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, when I was teaching, itaught drum lessons for like
five years and I taught so Ithought, like dancers, i taught
people who just wanted to justget more involved in the rhythm
side of things And that wasalways a cool thing to see,
especially when they, when theyget that first, you know, beat
number one that everybodylearned inside of play and they
can play, yeah, exactly, yeah.
(48:02):
Well, billy Jean, back in black, that's.
Those songs have made me moremoney than any other song, just
Thanks.
Phil (48:10):
Rudd, My best students, my best drum students, were always
piano players.
I discovered this over time,for whatever reason.
Just like being able to readmusic and do multiple things at
once, I think just you know,trigger something in the brain
and and they just picked it upso quick, almost too quick,
because I'd be like, All right,well, I got to like.
Zen (48:32):
You know, this is you're just going to know everything
too quickly And that's the yeah,you got to keep on sucking or
else I have to start gettingmore curriculum.
Yeah that was definitely athought process for you when I
was teaching.
Justin (48:45):
Milk your parents for money, dude, i had this kid that
I taught the first drum.
Zen (48:50):
He never played drums before and I like taught him.
On his table He was justpatting it out And then within
three months he was doing likestick tricks behind his head,
throwing the stick up, catchingit.
Shit that I literally cannot do.
And I was like you, littleasshole, but you're going to
make me listen.
Phil (49:07):
These kids grew up with YouTube as well, so they have,
they just have so much knowledge, musical knowledge, at their
fingertips And you can learn howto do anything at any time.
You know, and it's it's.
It's cool, but it's also scary,you know.
It's like, yeah, there is somekid out there who will shred you
into you know non-existence ifthey wanted to.
(49:27):
But you know, there's somethingabout like life experience to
being a musician you know likegetting out and experiencing
things and making art, insteadof just like owning your skills,
all that's you know, and Ithink we're in this generation
of like, you know, the soloartist really, of like someone
who's just a star on Instagram.
(49:49):
They're, they're absolutelyhave every job you can imagine.
I don't know any other songsand I can't think of any of.
You know what I mean.
It's just like it's a differentworld.
So it's cool to see up andcoming bands more so for me than
than necessarily the me me, meplayers.
Zen (50:08):
Oh, yeah, totally.
I agree too.
It's some of the best rumors on, you know, instagram and all
that stuff.
I'm like I don't who's everlistened to a song by you,
though, like you're right, thatwas a cool trick.
But yeah, that's alwayssomething we can like have a
talk down with other musicians,be like Yeah, they, they suck.
I mean, they haven't even gotdrunk in a show and had to
figure out how to get homeafterwards.
(50:28):
Like they're missing out likeclearly they've had to spend a
fortune to just like buy gearand not get paid.
Phil (50:36):
Oh, you didn't leave your symbols two states away, Like
how are you even a musician?
Zen (50:42):
Like come on, So yeah, um, we'll go on off of that.
Justin, how are you feeling?
You got hit by a car not thatlong ago And we just want to ask
how you're doing in general Andwhat was that whole experience
(51:04):
like, if you're feeling liketalking about it.
Justin (51:08):
That was awful, They're hit by a car No.
Michael (51:12):
I have not.
Justin (51:14):
I've been a bike messenger in New York City for
10 years maybe and I've been hitplenty of times, but never like
totally wiped out.
It was scary, you know, like Iwas pretty heavily concussed,
yeah, and it was just like.
(51:35):
You know, that's, it's mylivelihood, it's my way of
experiencing the city.
You know, it's on a bike, it'sI think it's the greatest way to
experience the city.
Until you get fucking KO'd, youknow.
I don't know I could go on aboutit because you know, each week
it's a different kind of vibe,but it is one of those things
(51:57):
that makes you feel grateful oflike all right, i made it to the
other side, i'm still alive, ican still play music, and for me
, coming out of that, you know,and having the conversation
about getting a fourth member,it was one of those things of
like let's not wait anymore,Like let's do the things we said
we were gonna do now.
You know, instead of like maybenext year, maybe next record,
(52:20):
like let's fucking put that tryout meme out there With you know
, like let's do the things.
That it just kind of gives you.
As scary as it is, it gives youthat perspective that, like
life can be gone, like fuckingback you know and do the shit
that you wanna do right now.
And you know my brain was neversuper quick to begin with, but I
(52:45):
think I'm back.
You know it sucks that ithappened the night of a really
rad show.
You know it was the night ofthe Julie Christmas show at St
Vitus.
It was awesome And then, yeah,but thank you for asking, i
think I'm back.
Zen (53:02):
Well, good to have you back And, yeah, I'm glad that you
know you're still able to playmusic and actually, like, do
shows and-.
Justin (53:09):
We got a new guitar out of it.
Zen (53:11):
Yeah, you're like, yeah, just in case we need to sub
somebody in really quick.
Andy's a drummer, so Exactly,yeah, but that's pretty wild.
I mean it's interesting to addthat perspective in general.
I'm sure it's kind of like justchanged that.
It's always interesting to hearabout people who have
experiences like that, becauseyou kind of you can see it in
their eyes.
They're like yeah, thisactually does mean something
(53:33):
like go out, do the shit thatyou actually want to do, because
you can talk to them foreverWith any adversity.
Justin (53:40):
You kind of have two choices, you know pack it up and
fucking quit, or realize whatyou got and go on even harder.
You know.
Zen (53:48):
Yeah, i just have a couple more questions for you guys.
It's been super fun.
What is each of your ideas ofsuccess?
That's the question Where'd hego?
Damn, i looked at him.
Justin (54:02):
Yeah.
Phil (54:03):
You know, it's all.
It's obviously relative.
I think, You know, for me it'salways been getting this music
to as many people as possibleand connecting with people.
I'm not a very, you know,extroverted person, so, like
going to shows, playing shows,is my social time, you know.
(54:26):
And yeah, it's fun connectingwith a random stranger from
somewhere who found your musicon the internet and really loves
your band And it's cool to havethose conversations with people
, and so that's a success initself.
And then, obviously, you know,keeping the business side of
things going, like you know,playing shows, continuing to
(54:48):
tour I think that's really thebiggest goal for us is to
continue to be on the road, andif we can do that, then we're
being successful.
And if that brings, you know,more monetary success as well,
then that's cool.
But ultimately, as long as wecan keep this thing going and
connecting with people, that's asuccess for me.
Zen (55:09):
Yeah, I like that.
How about for you, Justin?
Justin (55:15):
I think you know being able to express yourself
musically, you know, and look ata record or a song and be like
that was exactly what or thatcame out how I wanted it, to
Being able to write that song,that makes you feel a particular
way.
You know, being able to expressyourself through music and feel
is like I didn't know that'swhat I wanted when I started
(55:37):
music.
But it's happened a bunch oftimes.
And like listening to this newrecord, desideria on July 21st
on Monarch Heavy, listening toit, listening to it is like it
gives me that feeling and itmakes me feel like a kid again
And it's like it just kind ofrolls over and it reaffirms of
like why music means so much tome other people's music, my own
(55:59):
music.
And secondly, i think everygirlfriend that I've ever had
has asked me the same questionAnd my answer has always been
like if I can travel the worldthrough music and pay for my
rent, that's success.
You know what I mean.
Like if music can give me thesethings in life and joy and to
(56:22):
see the world and I can comehome and still make rents,
that's cool.
Zen (56:28):
Yeah, that's.
yeah, i like how I'm asking thegirlfriend question.
that's a.
I wrote a song about dude Allright And another kind of the
other side of that is what givesyou any, what gives you doubts
and how do you overcome themwhen it comes to just creating
(56:48):
and putting stuff out there inthe world.
Phil (56:54):
AI, I'm afraid of this AI stuff with.
No, I'm just kidding As far asSorry.
Can you rephrase it a bit?
Zen (57:06):
Yeah.
So if anything gives you kindof doubt about, like putting out
music, do you ever have like amoment where you're like, yeah,
i don't know if, like, what arewe doing?
What are we doing right now?
Are we like still gonna go upin the van?
Like what gives you doubts andhow do you kind of overcome them
in general, There's a ton ofself-doubt.
Phil (57:25):
I think I think any musician would be lying if they
said you know, i just know I'mgonna make it.
You know, It's like and that'skind of the challenging part
about the whole thing isovercoming that.
You know, and some days it'smore prevalent than others.
But I think, like Justin wastouching on it, if you can be
(57:47):
proud of your music, that's justsuch a good first step, you
know.
And if you're questioningwhether you're proud of your
music, you're probably not.
You're either not making theright music or you're doing it
for the wrong reasons And soyeah, that's how I would dodge
those internal thoughts of likeyou know, how are we gonna come
up with this money to pay forthis thing?
(58:08):
for the record Or do you knowlike all that kind of stuff that
goes into the business side ofbeing in a band, like it all has
to start with the music.
for me anyway, Yeah.
Zen (58:20):
Have I just Yeah.
Justin (58:21):
I think you know early on, you like hear or read the
statistic of like .0000001% ofpeople playing music have any
financial gain from it And Ithink I was like, yeah, i like
those odds, you know.
Like you know, if you'retelling me that it's a bad idea
(58:44):
and I can't do it, it makes youwanna do it even more.
Phil (58:47):
Yeah, i'm telling you, there's a chance.
Justin (58:53):
Yeah, it's a Lloyd Christmas mentality dude.
You know I it's such a bad idea.
you know It's such a it makesno sense.
It's such a bad idea, nobodyshould do it, but it's the
funnest thing in the world.
So you know what?
are you living for?
Making, fucking?
you know accounting, doingsomeone's taxes, or are you
(59:16):
trying to like beat the odds,even if they're insurmountable?
Michael (59:21):
Yeah.
Justin (59:22):
So that kind of reality of doubt of like, hey, man, can
we climb this mountain?
Are we gonna go around it or gothrough it?
I like that kind of challenge.
You know It's hard enoughwriting music, you know, Yeah,
it's hard enough to.
But it's even harder to hopethat other people like it too.
(59:46):
Enough that you can keep.
You know you can sustain yourband and the collection of your
mates and fucking keep doing it.
It's the thrill.
The thrill is always worth it.
Zen (01:00:00):
Yeah, i agree.
I think that's well put, wellput.
Well, hey, we're at the endhere.
What, what do you have?
So you have an album coming out.
Why don't you just talk aboutyour tour, talk about your album
coming out.
Give the people what they needto hear.
Phil (01:00:17):
Yeah, we're about to embark on a West Coast tour,
predominantly with Telekinetic,yeti and Thinking Lizaveta, and,
yeah, playing some awesomeshows, and then the end of this
month we're going to be out withZayo and Arsicis, and so two
totally different kinds of tours, really, as far as music goes,
(01:00:37):
and we're excited about that.
And yeah, we have an albumcoming out the 21st, like we
mentioned, new single coming outon the 14th of July.
So, yeah, a lot of stuffhappening.
Zen (01:00:51):
Oh yeah, well, hey, this has been a pleasure getting to
talk to both of you and I hopewe get to meet you guys.
Have a beer with you next showwhen you come to Brooklyn.
Yeah, there's Michael.
Yeah, i really appreciate itguys.
Justin (01:01:07):
Well, we'll have a record release show in August.
End of August.
Yeah, august 26th, that'll bethe next local thing we do, i
think.
So August 26th at Union Pool.
Okay, i guess we can talk aboutthat.
So yeah, we'd love to see youguys there.
Zen (01:01:26):
Yeah, michael, that will be there.
It will.
It's awesome.
That sounds super fun.
Yeah, that's gonna be amazing.
Michael (01:01:32):
We've already canceled all of our other plans in August
Right now.
Yeah, that's what I was doing.
I was trying to screen off.
Zen (01:01:40):
What is it Ty?
Well, cool.
anything else, guys?
Anything else you want tomention before we get off here,
before we get off here?
that should rephrase that.
Before we get off.
the Zoom call Got off before Igot on.
Yeah, that's always good, nicecall and say to mine before a
podcast.
Justin (01:01:58):
Thank you guys for having us Appreciate you
checking out our music, and weappreciate the questions.
I love talking to othermusicians.
It's a lot of fun, so thank youguys.
Zen (01:02:09):
Yeah, absolutely Well, we appreciate you guys And, yeah,
we'll see you soon And we'll bekeeping up with you and we can't
wait for the new album Andwe'll see you when we see you.
Yeah, awesome Thanks, dudes.
Peace out, guys.
Phil (01:02:20):
Take care.
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