May 21, 2023 • 49 mins
Our featured guest this episode is Gavin Quinnies and our topics are The Power of Tzen, adventures in entrepreneurship and so much more. Gavin and Jessica have worked together on several successful initiatives, especially within the leadership ecosystems of innovation, technology, operations efficiencies and improvement of healthcare. This episode reveals PredictiMed’s uniquely validated science, helping us predict, manage and even cure disease before it happens. Gavin is a kindred soul at the intersection of invention and drive.
Episode landing page, topic resources and contact info for our guest at: Gavin Quinnies - The Zenquest of Leaders — zenquest.online
Here’s a highlight summary on Gavin…
· Trained in engineering and management systems, Mr. Quinnies started his career developing artificial intelligence, automated process planning, and intelligent networks in the aerospace industry.
· Afterward, he served as Chief Operating Officer for a metals manufacturing and distribution firm, playing a key role in its successful growth from $20 million to $100 million with multi-state operations. During this time, Mr. Quinnies developed industry-leading health, safety, IT, quality, sales and productivity management systems.
· He implemented his first incentive-based wellness program in 1992 resulting in a 4:1 ROI. After a successful exit involving a multi-competitor roll-up and NYSE IPO, he stayed on as Chief Quality, Safety, and Health Officer for the $2.0 billion dollar parent company, managing 100 locations nationwide.
· Before co-founding US HealthCenter, Gavin operated a consulting company for Quality, Safety, Health and Life Sciences. His largest client was IBM, contributing to an international pharmaceutical lifecycle management practice and system currently being sold globally.
· He is currently the Chairman and CEO of US HealthCenter and is responsible for the day-to-day operations of the Company including personnel, client services, financial decisions, software development, and sales management.
· Gavin earned his B.S. in engineering from the University of Wisconsin-Stout.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Jessica Ollenburg (00:00):
Our featured guest this episode is Gavin
Quinnies, and our topics are thepower of Tzen, adventures in
entrepreneurship, and so muchmore. Gavin and I have worked
together on several successfulinitiatives, especially within
the leadership ecosystems ofinnovation, technology,
operations, efficiencies, andimprovement of health care. This
(00:24):
episode reveals predictive medsuniquely validated science
helping us predict, manage, andeven cure disease before it
happens. Gavin is a kindred soulat the intersection of invention
and drive.
Trained in engineering andmanagement systems Mr. Quinnies
has started his careerdeveloping artificial
(00:47):
intelligence, automated processplanning and intelligent
networks in the aerospaceindustry. Afterward, he served
as chief operating officer for ametals manufacturing and
distribution firm, playing a keyrole in his successful growth
from 20 million to 100 millionwith multi state operations.
(01:08):
During this time, Mr. Quinnieshas developed industry leading
health, safety, IT, quality,sales and productivity
management systems. Heimplemented his first incentive
based wellness program in 1992,resulting in a four to one ROI.
(01:29):
After a successful exitinvolving a multi competitor
roll up and New York StockExchange IPO, he stayed on as
chief quality safety and healthofficer for the $2 billion
parent company managing 100locations nationwide. Before co
(01:50):
founding US HealthCenter, Gavinoperated a consulting company
for quality, safety, health andlife sciences. His largest
client was IBM, contributing toan international pharmaceutical
lifecycle management practiceand system currently being sold
globally. He is currently thechairman and CEO of US
(02:12):
HealthCenter, Gavin earned hisBS degree in engineering from
the University of WisconsinStout. Thank you, Gavin, for
joining us today. Welcome.
Gavin Quinnies (02:22):
Yes, super happy and honored to be with you.
Thank you.
Jessica Ollenburg (02:26):
We've worked together on several projects
over the years, including today.
You've been a partner, a client,a friend, and I really enjoy
following your accomplishmentsand solutions that you're
bringing Gavin. Let's start withpredictive med. The validity
studies on this are excellent.
And it seems an excellent toolset for wellness and executive
(02:48):
decision. What should businessleaders know about this
offering?
Gavin Quinnies (02:53):
Well, I'm, again pleased to be doing so many
things with you, Jess.
PredictiMed... that is the brandfor our solution offering and
primarily our technology stack.
That's the name that we chose.
It is trademarked and it standsfor predictive medicine, which
is our focal point for ourorganization. Our mission is to
(03:16):
predict and prevent disease,using industry leading science,
technology and advocacy. And webelieve the combination of those
three things are not justcrucial, but required in order
to have a successful engagementaround your population. So the
validations and certificationsand the awards that we've won
(03:41):
are all independently landmarkedin their own way. And in
combination are, I believe, areal incredible testament to the
work our team has done. And youknow, the beginning of the
organization is quiteinteresting. You know, I've been
involved in a number ofdifferent things, as you
(04:03):
mentioned, health and wellnessmanagement, and doing some
things in my organizationsbefore founding US Health. And I
was super fortunate to meet mypartner Dr. Raymond Gavery. He
was a medical doctor and wasrunning and created what we
would now call near-site, onsite and direct primary care,
(04:24):
subscription based conciergemedicine in Northern Illinois,
and very, very successfulpractices. And about a dozen
locations have had fullyintegrated wellness and fitness
centers within them. And he hadstarted to design some
(04:45):
algorithms to predict who wasgoing to get sick with what
disease and I brought in kind ofthe business idea standpoint, I
had been fortunate enough to doself funding of our own sub 100
population back in the 90s, inboth the workers comp side, as
well as the group health side.
(05:07):
And that was because of our riskmanagement approach was very
clunky and far lesssophisticated than what we do
today. Although even now, it isstill sophisticated compared to
what most organizations aredoing. So we'll get back to that
a little bit. So PredictiMed isa is really -- to most
(05:28):
employers, they would see us asa fairly traditional wellness
program, meaning that we gatherdata about the individuals
through a screening through anassessment. And then we deploy
coaching, and engage membersaround preventing disease,
(05:48):
through engagement with theirproviders, and with coaches and
wellness programs, incentivewalking programs, all the fun
stuff that people do, thedifference between that set or
checkbox of activities and theoutcomes is where the difference
plays a role. So we are the onlycompany on the planet to be
(06:11):
third party validated to predictdisease prior to the appearance
of symptoms. So compared toother organizations that might
report, you may have a high riskof cancers or high risk of, of
heart disease or your glucose ishigh. Or you're not eating
enough fruits and vegetables,more survey response
(06:34):
information... ours is actuallyactionable. And it's actionable
at the individual level, and atthe group level. And at the
individual level, when we gatherwhat we can electronically about
the member, and we present thatto the member in the form of
their app, or their personalhealth dashboard, they then
(06:57):
complete their assessment and itconfigures their entire
experience for where they'vebeen, what they may have, what
conditions they may want tomanage, or lifestyle areas they
want to focus on. Moreimportantly, where they're
going. And, and then what theycan do about it, whether it's
protocols, lifestyle,engagement, gamification, what
(07:21):
have you. And so that's fairlyunique. We've been doing this
for 20 years. So we know whatwe're doing. As far as the
validation goes, our ability topredict who's gonna get sick
with what condition changes thestory, we call it helping them
find a way to their why. Sowhile it's not, you know, very
(07:45):
helpful to say to people, oh,you should lose some weight
because your BMI is high, oryour blood pressure's high,
that's a risk factor. But wetell an individual that their
risk for certain cancer, like abreast cancer, or ovarian
cancer, or colon cancer, orthey're at risk for heart
(08:07):
disease, or, you know,hypertension, diabetes, back
problems, depression. We track40 different conditions. That
A-ha moment is the mostsignificant difference. And
that's what we mean by the wayto their why. So it's not just
you've got things going on, it'swhat is happening in those
(08:27):
things that are going on, andhow you can do something about
it. And, you know, as we age, ororgan systems get older, they
get worn out. That is the wholepoint of the aging process. And
by the time someone is at apoint where action is of
(08:49):
interest, is maybe necessary,and is warranted from a risk
management standpoint, that'sthe moment of opportunity. So
very simple example, changingyour oil or your brake pads too
early, is not a reasonableinvestment. Changing it too late
is obviously there's alreadydamaged as being it, we're
(09:10):
trying to find that just in timesweet spot. And that's about
three to five years is what thescience allows us to get close
to in today's world, that threeto five years is about the
amount of time that any employeror carrier or any risk
management pool has interest inmanaging that risk, right?
And, typicallyare off the pool for shorter
Jessica Ollenburg (09:30):
Right.
than that. And of course, theentire purpose of the energy is
around preventing those shockclaims. So stop loss, train
wrecks, that that ruin the plan,and of course they ruin the
members life and that that youknow as the first area of
interest, but from an economicstandpoint, if you don't have
(09:53):
the way to pay for finding thatdata out and having it makes
sense then, then you're notgoing to get there. So that's
the first certification is inthe ability to predict 80 to 93%
accurate, prior to theappearance of symptoms, that's
by intelligenie. The secondvalidation is about our ability
(10:14):
to predict the cost. So we knowwithin a margin of error of
about 7%, that then a givengroup's amount of risk, by
category or by condition is, isa certain number. That number is
around $8,000 a year. And weknow by the nature of our
(10:36):
experience, that certainorganizations are spending 10,
12, 13 - $15,000 per person peryear, some are spending six or
seven. And our job is to workwith that organization to
monitor and mitigate that totalspend risk. And of course, that
trickles down to the members.
The other validation is in thearea of care navigation. So
(11:00):
while we are a science andtechnology shop, we learned long
ago, that we have to do a goodjob of getting good data in,
which is why we do screenings,we want to make sure that data
that comes into our platformalong with medical claims and
pharmaceutical, along withpayroll data, biometric data,
(11:21):
DNA data, wearable data, we'recollecting all that data that's,
you know, what is needed to ourpredictive model to perform. And
but the output of it is, is youknow, how we engage members. And
the engagement in the populationhealth world is called care
navigation, we have aninteresting name we've been
(11:44):
using since 2004. We call itFantastic! Congratulations...
Wholeistic, coaching, spell itW-H-O-L-E-I-Stic. Meaning that
we don't really manage thedisease or try to fix a
lifestyle, we manage theindividual. And they may come to
us through a medical claim, or ahospital discharge, or a file
(12:08):
feed of, you know, certainpeople that maybe have a
condition or lifestyle categorythat we want to work on. But
once we tackle that individual,we take him through our
assessment. And then thatcreates an entire platform of
engagement, for our coaches touse. And, in 2 open competitions
against all competitors in ourspace that were interested in
(12:31):
getting recognized and competingin which there were over 100,
the only two times that thatcompetition was levied, we won
Gavin Quinnies (12:35):
Talking about beating enormous carriers like
them bothHumana Blue Cross, or especially
providers that are in areas oflet's say, diabetes, or
hypertension, or tobacco orstress. So the reason for that
is is part of a relationship wehad with the University of
(12:57):
Wisconsin Milwaukee many yearsago, where they heard about how
we were training our internalcoaches. And we were able to
then develop a three creditcourse for them around our
coaching program. And they wereone of largest sites in the
nation. And that's now an onlinetool, of course that our coaches
(13:18):
use, and many hundreds of otherprofessionals have learned how
to coach using that tool set. Sothe second time we won the
award, it was very interesting,the institute, which is run by
basically, derivative of theIntel GE validation Institute.
(13:39):
They came to us and said, "Youguys are so weird." It's the
word they used, because yourcoaching is done about the whole
person. And, and oh, by the way,using your own data to do the
analytics, because of the wayyou engage with the member and
the way your data allows you totarget your interventions, your
(13:59):
outcomes are off the chart. Andwe want a different category
because it isn't clearnavigation something different.
So if you look on our website,it actually says population
health management. That's thecategory that we chose, because
it's a combination science, andthe advocacy. And again, if you
look at our tagline or ourmission statement, it's about
(14:20):
the combination of science,technology and advocacy. Can't
can't win the battle that wefight in population health, at
the individual or aggregatelevel without having all three
of those working together. Andthat's traditionally a reason
for failure in our in ourindustry is the lack of the
combination of things and andwhen you look at coaching alone,
(14:43):
and our traditional engagementin healthcare and traditional
engagement through carriers asan example, you know, they have
a specialist for everything. Andso you got a member that's
bouncing around from thedietitian to maybe even a
diabetic educator, to a fitnessperson to tobacco or stress
person, and many times theinformation is competing, and
(15:06):
the messaging is not congruent.
So in our model, that wholeperson, that holistic coaching
isn't just about how we engagewith the member, that the
members one person to work withthat makes all the difference in
the world. It's really themedical home, the idea that you
want to have a single primarycare provider is quarterbacking
(15:29):
your care, they can't doeverything, but they're still
running the place. sure thatthat makes a huge difference.
Jessica Ollenburg (15:36):
And you've been an expert in this space for
so long, Gavin. And what I'mhearing is, it's not just the
validation that makes it sospecial, but you're also got a
very holistic integrative andproactive approach. You talk
about engagement. Sometimes wesee corporate programs falling
(15:57):
off, because the investment intothe screening is too high, or
people might be being dishonestin, in the data that they're
providing. I'm not hearing thatgreat possibility here. I'm
hearing that with thisengagement and with the ability
(16:17):
to provide your own data andanswer your own questions and
look at what changes andoutcomes might be suggested to
you. It's an opportunity for notonly the organization in its ROI
and risk management, but alsofor the individual to get to a
(16:39):
more comfortable place ofconfident care.
Gavin Quinnies (16:44):
Yeah, you know, it's it's such a rewarding
opportunity. You look, we'vebeen in business for 20 years,
right? So the amount of livesthat we've saved is just
unbelievable. I mean, you'retalking 10s of 1000s.
Jessica Ollenburg (16:58):
That's fantastic!
Gavin Quinnies (17:00):
Yeah... that have been affected, and when you
look at things like pancreaticcancer, ovarian cancer, cervical
cancer, breast cancer, heartdisease, liver disease, kidney
failure, these are all thingsthat we've helped avoid by
catching things early. And it'sfascinating. It is, it is not
(17:21):
easy. You do need to collect theright data and having that
validation that we have donethat right, because the only way
you get validated in yourability to predict is to have
failures. It's like how well dothe brakes work? Well, you got
to crash a lot of cars. Youknow, only a few of them
(17:41):
crashed. But you still have tocrash him otherwise you can't
figure out if your brakes gonnafail. So it's the same sort of
analysis on our side. And, and Ican tell you that hitting on a
point you were making aboutengagement is that we will find
out from the people that we canengage where the problems are.
(18:03):
That's the easy part. And ofthat population 100% of 100% of
our clients are going to reducetheir risk in categories. It is
it is a social guarantee thatwhen you are sitting in front of
an individual and communicatewith them their risk or
something. And they're like,Yeah, I don't want that because
(18:26):
my dad or mom or family memberor co worker, they're at that
point. And that's where it's soimportant to calculate by
condition, not by risk factor.
So you've got to look at the mapand the science intelligently
from a standpoint of where wheredoes the nexus point hit. And
the hard part in our industry isgetting the incentives aligned,
(18:49):
and getting the engagementaligned about about not just
assessing, but doing somethingabout it. And that's where the
care navigation, in addition tothe technology and science has
to be very personalized, has tobe about that individual. We
focus our energy on having thatdifferent coaching model.
Because without that, I mean,the technology is obviously
(19:12):
customized to the individual,right? It's not easy, but over
20 years, we've learned how todo that. And getting that that
one on one experience means thatall that information has to be
with that coach and also withthe member if you're just
teaching somebody how to cook onthe internet, and you're not
shoulder to shoulder with them,with the recipe in front of them
watching how they stir the potor beat the eggs or whatever,
(19:35):
then that opportunity is likewell, okay, the chef did it and
I like it. Our job is to get themember to engage not just around
their own health and their ownlifestyle, but also in their
engaging with their providers.
That's where that that scienceleads to the technology given
the information. Advocacy helpsthem learn how to utilize it,
(19:58):
and then correlate that to howthey behave with their providers
and maybe their householdmembers or their co workers.
Jessica Ollenburg (20:05):
Sure. And it would follow that with the
science, with the validity andwith the personalized approach,
plus the ability to to have theintegrative and holistic
coaching, those factors wouldcreate more buy in for the
employee to want to reallyengage, provide good information
(20:27):
and follow through. Those arethe outcomes that we find there
might... if there's skepticism,it's because people think it's
worthless, you know, why would Igive up this information, if
it's not gonna lead to anywherethat I want to go or any
information that I need. You'vegot that built in credibility
with this program.
Gavin Quinnies (20:48):
I can tell you, though, just, you know, the
industry is terrible atengagement. The average is
around 25%. And, you know, froman HR point of knowledge, the
25% that typically engage inwhat we call the "worried well."
These are people that already,you know, they want to actually
(21:08):
be rewarded for doing well. Sothose aren't the people that,
you know, say want to ignorethem, but they're not the people
that are going to be your nextstop loss shot claim. Sure, you
need to get 100% participation.
Now we average 71%, I sayaverage. So we are three times
the industry average, in ourengagement, that's because we
have a lot of folks that are at100%, they align the incentives
(21:30):
accordingly, to participate insome form of assessment and some
sort of follow up. And that'sour measure of engagement is
that they gathered informationabout themselves through our
tools. And then they review thatwith somebody which is typically
our coach and their provider.
(21:50):
And that is that is, you know,our measure of engagement. So if
it's at 71%, that's off thecharts, our goal is to help the
employer, find ways that theprogram becomes no costs or
becomes a profit center forthem. And we have many ways to
do that, given that then convertthe effort of the member into a
(22:14):
risk management strategy. Andthat's, that's where we're the
most successful. The reason whywe are at such a high amount of
average engagement is becausemost of our clients have come to
the conclusion that theseseparate different approaches,
disintegrated approaches,meaning, for example, a
(22:34):
telemedicine here and an EAPthere and onsite clinic there
and a diabetes or diseasemanagement program from their
carrier this way, they don'tsync. They don't they can't,
they're not intended to. And, ofcourse, we can integrate all of
those various programs into acommon approach. Through our
(22:57):
technology, our engagement orcommunication and marketing, we
could certainly do that. And wecould find the areas of
opportunity of complimentaryengagement. Like maybe our
coaches will talk to the directprimary care, or the Outside
Clinic, integrated tools asopposed to five or six or 10, or
even 12 different and that makesa difference. Typically, when
(23:20):
you do that, you can actuallyreduce your costs significantly,
and increase your outcomessignificantly.
Jessica Ollenburg (23:27):
Sure. Well it really sounds like such a
win-win. Seems like a real nobrainer to to look into it.
Thank you for bringing it to us.
71% average engagement isfantastic.
Gavin Quinnies (23:41):
We have a lot of clients that have 100%
participation. In fact, thatnumber is growing every single
day because we have builtprograms that require engagement
of a certain type to getincentives. And those incentives
are, you know, ever changing andgetting ever, ever more fun. In
(24:01):
fact, we are stepping into theVR world and and starting to use
all different kinds ofincentives to get members to
participate. And you know,that's going to take some time
to fully appreciate that. Andit's not for everybody. You
know, our target is typicallythe 50 year old person doesn't
have a doctor. So whetherthey're ready to go start
(24:22):
playing a virtual gamingenvironment in the metaverse is
yet to be completely determined.
Jessica Ollenburg (24:30):
(Joint laughter.)
Gavin Quinnies (24:31):
But you know, you make things more fun. And
And honestly, we have taken costcompletely out of the equation.
If you want to really learnabout how to do that. We know
how. We've got 1000s and 1000sof employers that have all kinds
of models, and more and more ofthem are taking advantage of the
opportunities to learn how towork in a no cost relationship
(24:56):
with us.
Jessica Ollenburg (24:57):
That's fantastic.
Thank you so much and thanksagain for bringing this great
tool set to us. I want to switcha little bit and talk about
entrepreneurism. We both andmany of our listeners connect
with bold and risk takingentrepreneurism. We did
summarize your career arc alittle bit in our intro, but
(25:17):
please, if you could divefurther tell us one or two of
your favorite stories or lightbulb moments along your
entrepreneurial journey.
Gavin Quinnies (25:28):
Well, you know, like most people that are
fortunate, there's some versionof mentorship and learning at an
earlier age. And I mean, mystory is kind of interesting,
because I was not a very goodmath student in high school. And
(25:49):
because of that, I wasparticipating in graphic arts as
an elective. And my parents werelooking for something that they
can have on their own. And, youknow, while I was a kid, we'd go
to the, these little seminarsabout, you know, how to own a
(26:09):
cheese shop or something. Oneday, we stumbled into a print
shop that was for sale that oneof our realtor friends was aware
of. And by chance, I knew how torun all the equipment, because I
was doing those kinds of thingsin high school. So at the ripe
(26:30):
old age of 15, my mom and Istarted a small family print
shop, so I got to learn a lotabout, you know, how to work
with your mom in a business, andhow not to of course, and, and
certainly the ins and outs ofbasic customer service, you
know, dealing with unhappy orhappy customers and the whole
(26:53):
creative experience. And back in1979, when we started this, that
was just really the first onsetof computerization into into the
printing world, which is, ofcourse, completely changed that
whole industry in the last 35 orso years, I was fortunate to get
a head start on that. And as itturned out, my father ended up
(27:15):
doing a leveraged buyout of themetals distribution firm, when I
was in college, I was working atthat during high school while he
was a general manager, and loand behold, you know, we go from
being a pretty average familyto, to having these businesses
that we were that we're running,and my brothers were into it
(27:36):
and, and other family members aswell. And so it was, it was
interesting for me, I got intoaerospace engineering, right out
of college, and got super luckyto get into what may still very
well be today, the best trainingprogram in that in that
(27:57):
industry. I'm a manufacturingengineer by graduation by a
degree. And so that's the areathat I was focusing in and got
involved in all kinds of AI andtech, way back when and some
crazy inventions, things likestereo lithography, which we now
know, is 3d printing, the binarylarge object which became the
(28:20):
hyperlink, that kind of justcrazy opportunity to learn from
wizards. And, and then, youknow, when I was running my own
shop, well, not my own, it wasour family's metals operation at
the time. You know, having that,that technology expertise in a
(28:42):
low tech industry, like metalsdistribution made a huge
difference. And so we instituteda quality and safety programs
that no one in our industry hadthat gave us risk, risk
management experience that noone had, because of that,
cultural management of arelatively low tech industry,
(29:06):
we, you know, put into place ISOprograms and quality and safety
programs. And eventually we'reable to leverage those into
training and education thatmanage health. And so we brought
on site clinics in back in the90s, which is where I eventually
(29:27):
learned about the riskmanagement and is really
rewarding at the time to save alife and frankly, the reason we
did it was a business need, butwe were growing. And, and we
wanted to make sure ouremployees were, you know, at
work and, and so we want to keepthem healthy. And we were giving
(29:48):
incentives for preventive care,many things like that were
traditionally part of yourdeductible. So someone had to
make an out of pocket decisionto go get a colonoscopy or see
their annual physician visit.
And so we paid for those thingsas part of our program, if you
participate in our wellnessprogram, ultimately, you know,
we exited, did very well, I gotto, you know, be consultant for
(30:13):
a while. And in one day, I got acall from a friend of mine that
I had hired to help me build anactivity based costing system
and accounting type approach.
And he was running IBM lifesciences, pharmaceutical
division, and they had decidedthat they were going to take all
the paper documentation that wasused for getting drugs approved
(30:37):
and electronify them, thencreate what we would now call a
document management system, youknow, Dropbox, ShareFile type of
thing, manage things, and no onehad done that back in 2002. So I
got to join a team of 15, otherIBMers, and in about 18 months,
we brought that thing to life.
And that opened my eyes tohealthcare tech, you know, I've
been involved in health carekind of clinic type stuff, I had
(31:00):
been involved in technology, butnot really the convergence of
that, and then meeting Dr.
Gavery at the right time, reallyopened up the whole opportunity
of what kind of business that,you know, I might want to invest
in and never thought, you know,and he's still talking about and
after 20 years, to be honest, Ithought it would go, you know,
(31:22):
crazy or go bust quickly. Andit's been a, an interesting,
slow burn. And I think that'sthe thing you have to take away
as an entrepreneur is, you know,there's a number of different
approaches to it. There's guys Iknow that that, that move
through companies in a couple ofyears pretty quickly. And
that's, that's how they do theirthing. A lot of that is
(31:42):
transactional, some of that isright time, right place, this is
really, you know, when I gotinto it, I knew it would, it
would either be my last gig,because we'd hit it big, or I
just be on it. Because thepassion, the success stories is
is I don't know about addicting,but it's satisfying. And it
(32:06):
keeps...
Jessica Ollenburg (32:06):
certainly fueling, yes...
Gavin Quinnies (32:07):
...keeps you wanting to continue to improve.
Because, you know, when you'rethinking about helping
employers, literally some ofthem, could go bankrupt if their
health plan was more expensive.
And so building health planswith employers, which is
something we do, buildingprograms that become profit
centers, in the populationoutside, we can lower an
(32:28):
employer's cost by 15, or 20%.
It's not hard at all, to behonest with you, and also save
the senior executives life, orcatastrophic health situation
or, or anyone, you know, on agiven team, that that's what
keeps you coming back. I think,as an entrepreneur, it's the
love of the game. And if thegame is continuing to evolve
(32:50):
your business or continuing to,you know, to spin companies,
either one is that. So yeah,it's, you know, it's a sport, if
you will. And, you know, Ithink, I think the hard part is
picking your partners, knowingwhere to go, knowing where to
grow. We've been very, veryfortunate we were able to
bootstrap with with just acouple of investors, I sometimes
(33:13):
wonder if we should have goneand taken that huge money, you
know, earlier on and, and gonethat route. And, you know, you
don't know until you're down theroad with the right players.
We're super, super fortunate tohave very, very high employee
retention. Almost no turnover atall, which is hard to do in a
tech startup. I mean, you'retalking about two guys starting
(33:36):
something out of theirbasements, literally mean, Dr.
Gavery and I, you know, theclassic starting out of your
basement with a couple ofcomputers. And we haven't lost
clients due to quality becauseyou're continuously paying
attention to their needs. So faralong the way. It's been, it's
been working out. Okay,
Jessica Ollenburg (33:56):
Thank you for sharing that backstory. And just
to circle back on a couple ofthings. You said, first of all,
the idea of creating healthplans and saving lives, I can't
think of anything more importantthan that! And the fact that
you're bringing an ROI and casestudies of cost savings, let us
know that you're making itdoable. We also talked a little
(34:16):
bit about the entrepreneurism.
You mentioned the familydynamic. It's my experience and
experience of most that thatfamily dynamic actually adds
complexity to learningentrepreneurship, leadership,
business, because we do take itpersonally there's... we have to
set boundaries, there needs tobe the hygiene and the clear job
(34:37):
descriptions, but it is adynamic that does influence our
mindset, and it helps prepare useven more. We talk a lot on this
show about youth development andhow important it is to give our
future leaders an opportunity toengage in leadership and be
developed as leaders at an earlyage, I worked with Bob Galvin
(35:01):
from Motorola, who believed that14 was pretty much the cut off,
if you didn't have a futureleader being developed as a
leader by the age of 14,opportunities were being missed.
And that was kind of his histhought on that. And for most
people, it makes sense.
Everyone's unique, but that'skind of a good rule of thumb.
Gavin Quinnies (35:26):
I had an opportunity to work in a family
situation. So there weredifferent dynamics there. I
mean, obviously, I wasqualified, I can't tell you the
number of interviews andpsychological exams and IQ tests
I had to go through to, to jointhe family firm, because we
believed in that, but I comingout of aerospace, I had become a
(35:50):
very process driven individual.
And, you know, you have 2balancing acts in any problem,
and that's the people and theprocess. So I suggested that we
let me do something which wasrevolutionary in that industry.
And actually all industry at thetime, really, and in 1991,
decided to take on ISOcertification. And that meant
(36:15):
that I literally had to doeveryone's job description.
Sure, I literally had to work onall the internal external KPIs,
I had to do all the training. SoI was shoulder to shoulder with
everybody at every level,leading them in ways they've
never been led before in thingslike quality circles, and, and,
you know, open communicationtools. And some of that I had
(36:38):
gone through in my, you know, mytraining programs, something
I've learned, but was what wasreally cool about it is the
ability to apply that. And itmade a huge difference. I mean,
we completely re engineered thecompany, from the inside out, we
had little or no politicalproblems, we created a means of
(36:58):
cultural and manufacturing,scientific and, you know, kind
of the applied growth, that anorganization needs to learn how
to excel. And it completelychanged the whole nature of the
of the organization, and that,that's really the biggest
(37:20):
opportunity that we were able toleverage that really resulted in
success. You know, I look at theway we run our shop today. It's
crazy. And you and I've had thisconversation, I've got 35 going
on 40 teammates, and they allreport to me. And that's is a
definition of insanity. However,the process is so strong, that
(37:44):
they don't need people tellingthem what to do, or evaluating
their performance. I do thattwice a year. And but it's the
process of how they'reorganized, and how they work
together in their various teamsthat really manage the day to
day, the the weekly, the monthlyand ultimately, you know, the
(38:05):
annual goals. And it's, it's aninteresting, it's an interesting
way to go about it. I don't knowhow, how much I can continue to
sustain it. As we grow, I don'twant to lose touch with
individuals. And that's my fear.
So losing touch through havinglayers of management in there or
(38:29):
losing touch just because youcan't be there for everyone all
the time. I don't know, which isthe which is the worst of the
two vehicles. So, but I'm sureyou'll help us figure that out
as well.
Jessica Ollenburg (38:41):
I wanted to give a quick shout out. You
mentioned Quality Circles and myfather Marvin Pinter was the
Midwest trainer. He worked withthe Quality Circles Institute
back in the 70s, in Red Bluff,California, and became the
Midwest trainer He did some ofthat through MRA at the time,
(39:05):
and it was a little difficult atthe time to get the buy in for
that. But you know, intuitivelyit just makes so much sense. Why
wouldn't you consult the peoplewho are working with that
process most closely? They can'talways make decisions but they
(39:26):
can certainly give you the datayou need.
Gavin Quinnies (39:31):
Yeah, I've threatened my team that they
haven't even seen us how we canreally excel in using tools like
that. And you know, the thingswe have to do -- HIPAA is
obviously driving everythingthat we do at the client side
and we have all the legaldepartment of labor and EEOC and
(39:51):
the ADA and and Department ofinsurances are always things
that we have to pay attentionto. But volunteering to go and
work on improving yourselfthrough a process like ISO or QS
9000. It's a whole otheruniverse. And maybe we'll do it
(40:14):
soon. I don't know -- have toput the one on the radar.
Jessica Ollenburg (40:18):
Well, so we'll see. All right, Gavin,
here's the question for all ofour Zenquesting leaders out
there. We've learned to optimizeour capacity by actively
refueling our tanks, beforethose tanks run dry. What do you
actively do to refuel andcalibrate when needed? In short,
(40:41):
Gavin, how do YOU zen?
Gavin Quinnies (40:43):
Well, I have a handful of tools that I've
adopted on a personal andprofessional nature. I, I
perform a relatively basicmeditation of gratitude every
day in the morning. And one ofthese crazy guys that brushes
(41:05):
his teeth and shaves in theshower. But my point is that
during that moment, brushing myteeth is primarily that the tool
I use, is I visualize my entireancestral tree, my great
grandparents down to mychildren, of course, and now my
(41:29):
grandchildren, and, and I getfacts in wish them well, and
send love. And I do the samething with those that I work
with. And those that I know,socially, that may be going
through challenges, and I thinkabout my day. So I, you know,
use a fleeting moment ofvisualizing who I'm meeting
(41:50):
with, and, and what theobjective of that task at hand
is. And it just is like a littleelectronic spark, you know, in
my, in my body, about thatmoment of opportunity. So that's
one thing. And then the otherthing that I do, and I actually,
(42:11):
I call this the power of Tzen.
It literally is a word somedayI'll write a little, you know,
procedure on it. It's spelledT-Z-E-N, okay? And it leverages
the concept. And I don't, Ididn't really learn this from
anybody, it's not something Iread. It's just something I
concluded not saying it's toounique. But just recognizing the
(42:34):
idea that the human brain canreally only keep track of about
10 things. So if you do IQtests, you know, if you can
remember nine or more numbers,you're like kind of a in the
genius level. So 10 is kind ofthat high watermark. So what I
do literally is I, I keep everysingle thing on my calendar, an
(42:58):
electronic calendar, I useOutlook. So if I'm going to make
a phone call, if I got to pay abill, if I need to perform a
project where I have to do acontract or research something
or obviously meetings, ofcourse, everything's on my
calendar, because it's a need.
The only commodity we have thatwe can control at our personal
(43:20):
level, is time. And whether youwaste your time freaking out
about something you saw on thenews, or exercising or having
relationship developmentopportunities, that's all you
have. And I do believe time iselastic, you can get more out of
a given moment in time, if youuse it wisely. So I don't think
(43:41):
it's always fixed. But there arecertainly so many hours in the
day. So that 10 balls in theair, that 10 reminders, if I
have more than 10 reminders thenI'm like, I have to go do
that... then I got to stop, thenthat's like, Okay, I got to work
tonight, or I got to work onSaturday, or I got to delegate
or I gotta take something out ofmy schedule, or I have to
(44:02):
postpone it. That's just thatside of it. The other side of
the of the power of Tzen is therecognition that at least during
the work week, we've got 10buckets of time. Monday morning,
Monday afternoon, Tuesdaymorning, Tuesday afternoon. And
so I run my timing around thoseblocks of time. And if I can
(44:22):
keep those things workingtogether in synchronicity, that
works really well and then Ihave to do things on the
weekend. I kind of say I onlygot 10 things that I can get
done this weekend, put in thelawn, visiting, you know, a
relative, working on my taxes,whatever the heck that might be.
(44:47):
You know, so that's thecalibration side of it. That has
nothing to do with recharging.
So the recharging for me istravel and new experiences and
the outdoors, I love theoutdoors. If I don't, if I don't
get grounded, if I don't, and myfeet, you know, outside or fresh
air in my lungs, or blue, youknow, or even a gray sky doesn't
(45:10):
matter if I'm if I'm outdoors, Ilove the water, trying to always
be by the water. And live by thewater. Most of my life, when I
vacation, I'm trying to be bythe water. If I'm in the
mountains, I'm trying to, I'mtrying to find, you know, a
river or lake to enjoy. Sothat's kind of my reboot. So to
(45:30):
me, that's, you know, that givesme and then the other funny
thing that we do is we run ourdays at 25 hours that US Health.
So it's a little weird by themiddle of the year working from
like, 3am to 9pm. But I'mkidding. We use a lot of time
out of the out of the time yougot I think is ultimately
Jessica Ollenburg (45:57):
there might be a wage and hours problem with
25 hours
Gavin Quinnies (46:00):
You go right to that labor law!
Jessica Ollenburg (46:04):
That's right.
(Laughter) Oh, that's great.
Thank you so much. All right.
Lastly, how can our listenerslearn more about or reach you?
Gavin Quinnies (46:16):
Well, we're, we're one of those funny
companies that has likeeverything we do on our website.
So you go to PredictiMed.com.
And if you actually read,there's podcasts like this,
there's interviews about me,we've had a lot of magazine
articles written about what wedo. And so that's kind of the
(46:37):
backstory side of it. You know,on the technical side, you can
read all about our applicationsand our modules and our
programs. There's successstories out there. And we have
our little process wheel outthere. So there's a ton there,
PredictiMed.com. You know, we'vegot over 7000 clients. So
(46:59):
there's definitely one that canrelate to the experience that
that a prospect wants to gothrough. We're easy to find, and
unfortunately, I'm the onlyGavin Quinnies on the planet. So
yeah, Google me up. And it's
Jessica Ollenburg (47:18):
and there you are. Well, this has been
fabulous. Thank you so much fortaking the time today and
sharing all the insights and allthe great things you're
bringing. It's always a pleasureto talk with you and work with
you.
Gavin Quinnies (47:32):
Yeah, Jess, and I appreciate all the good work
that you've done with us. And Iknow we'll continue to do so.
Thank you so very much.
Jessica Ollenburg (47:40):
Thank you, too, Gavin. Have a great day.
Take care.
Our featured guest this episode is Gavin
Quinnies, and our topics are thepower of Tzen, adventures in
entrepreneurship, and so muchmore. Gavin and I have worked
together on several successfulinitiatives, especially within
the leadership ecosystems ofinnovation, technology,
operations, efficiencies, andimprovement of health care. This
(00:24):
episode reveals predictive medsuniquely validated science
helping us predict, manage, andeven cure disease before it
happens. Gavin is a kindred soulat the intersection of invention
and drive.
Trained in engineering andmanagement systems Mr. Quinnies
has started his careerdeveloping artificial
(00:47):
intelligence, automated processplanning and intelligent
networks in the aerospaceindustry. Afterward, he served
as chief operating officer for ametals manufacturing and
distribution firm, playing a keyrole in his successful growth
from 20 million to 100 millionwith multi state operations.
(01:08):
During this time, Mr. Quinnieshas developed industry leading
health, safety, IT, quality,sales and productivity
management systems. Heimplemented his first incentive
based wellness program in 1992,resulting in a four to one ROI.
(01:29):
After a successful exitinvolving a multi competitor
roll up and New York StockExchange IPO, he stayed on as
chief quality safety and healthofficer for the $2 billion
parent company managing 100locations nationwide. Before co
(01:50):
founding US HealthCenter, Gavinoperated a consulting company
for quality, safety, health andlife sciences. His largest
client was IBM, contributing toan international pharmaceutical
lifecycle management practiceand system currently being sold
globally. He is currently thechairman and CEO of US
(02:12):
HealthCenter, Gavin earned hisBS degree in engineering from
the University of WisconsinStout. Thank you, Gavin, for
joining us today. Welcome.
Gavin Quinnies (02:22):
Yes, super happy and honored to be with you.
Thank you.
Jessica Ollenburg (02:26):
We've worked together on several projects
over the years, including today.
You've been a partner, a client,a friend, and I really enjoy
following your accomplishmentsand solutions that you're
bringing Gavin. Let's start withpredictive med. The validity
studies on this are excellent.
And it seems an excellent toolset for wellness and executive
(02:48):
decision. What should businessleaders know about this
offering?
Gavin Quinnies (02:53):
Well, I'm, again pleased to be doing so many
things with you, Jess.
PredictiMed... that is the brandfor our solution offering and
primarily our technology stack.
That's the name that we chose.
It is trademarked and it standsfor predictive medicine, which
is our focal point for ourorganization. Our mission is to
(03:16):
predict and prevent disease,using industry leading science,
technology and advocacy. And webelieve the combination of those
three things are not justcrucial, but required in order
to have a successful engagementaround your population. So the
validations and certificationsand the awards that we've won
(03:41):
are all independently landmarkedin their own way. And in
combination are, I believe, areal incredible testament to the
work our team has done. And youknow, the beginning of the
organization is quiteinteresting. You know, I've been
involved in a number ofdifferent things, as you
(04:03):
mentioned, health and wellnessmanagement, and doing some
things in my organizationsbefore founding US Health. And I
was super fortunate to meet mypartner Dr. Raymond Gavery. He
was a medical doctor and wasrunning and created what we
would now call near-site, onsite and direct primary care,
(04:24):
subscription based conciergemedicine in Northern Illinois,
and very, very successfulpractices. And about a dozen
locations have had fullyintegrated wellness and fitness
centers within them. And he hadstarted to design some
(04:45):
algorithms to predict who wasgoing to get sick with what
disease and I brought in kind ofthe business idea standpoint, I
had been fortunate enough to doself funding of our own sub 100
population back in the 90s, inboth the workers comp side, as
well as the group health side.
(05:07):
And that was because of our riskmanagement approach was very
clunky and far lesssophisticated than what we do
today. Although even now, it isstill sophisticated compared to
what most organizations aredoing. So we'll get back to that
a little bit. So PredictiMed isa is really -- to most
(05:28):
employers, they would see us asa fairly traditional wellness
program, meaning that we gatherdata about the individuals
through a screening through anassessment. And then we deploy
coaching, and engage membersaround preventing disease,
(05:48):
through engagement with theirproviders, and with coaches and
wellness programs, incentivewalking programs, all the fun
stuff that people do, thedifference between that set or
checkbox of activities and theoutcomes is where the difference
plays a role. So we are the onlycompany on the planet to be
(06:11):
third party validated to predictdisease prior to the appearance
of symptoms. So compared toother organizations that might
report, you may have a high riskof cancers or high risk of, of
heart disease or your glucose ishigh. Or you're not eating
enough fruits and vegetables,more survey response
(06:34):
information... ours is actuallyactionable. And it's actionable
at the individual level, and atthe group level. And at the
individual level, when we gatherwhat we can electronically about
the member, and we present thatto the member in the form of
their app, or their personalhealth dashboard, they then
(06:57):
complete their assessment and itconfigures their entire
experience for where they'vebeen, what they may have, what
conditions they may want tomanage, or lifestyle areas they
want to focus on. Moreimportantly, where they're
going. And, and then what theycan do about it, whether it's
protocols, lifestyle,engagement, gamification, what
(07:21):
have you. And so that's fairlyunique. We've been doing this
for 20 years. So we know whatwe're doing. As far as the
validation goes, our ability topredict who's gonna get sick
with what condition changes thestory, we call it helping them
find a way to their why. Sowhile it's not, you know, very
(07:45):
helpful to say to people, oh,you should lose some weight
because your BMI is high, oryour blood pressure's high,
that's a risk factor. But wetell an individual that their
risk for certain cancer, like abreast cancer, or ovarian
cancer, or colon cancer, orthey're at risk for heart
(08:07):
disease, or, you know,hypertension, diabetes, back
problems, depression. We track40 different conditions. That
A-ha moment is the mostsignificant difference. And
that's what we mean by the wayto their why. So it's not just
you've got things going on, it'swhat is happening in those
(08:27):
things that are going on, andhow you can do something about
it. And, you know, as we age, ororgan systems get older, they
get worn out. That is the wholepoint of the aging process. And
by the time someone is at apoint where action is of
(08:49):
interest, is maybe necessary,and is warranted from a risk
management standpoint, that'sthe moment of opportunity. So
very simple example, changingyour oil or your brake pads too
early, is not a reasonableinvestment. Changing it too late
is obviously there's alreadydamaged as being it, we're
(09:10):
trying to find that just in timesweet spot. And that's about
three to five years is what thescience allows us to get close
to in today's world, that threeto five years is about the
amount of time that any employeror carrier or any risk
management pool has interest inmanaging that risk, right?
And, typicallyare off the pool for shorter
Jessica Ollenburg (09:30):
Right.
than that. And of course, theentire purpose of the energy is
around preventing those shockclaims. So stop loss, train
wrecks, that that ruin the plan,and of course they ruin the
members life and that that youknow as the first area of
interest, but from an economicstandpoint, if you don't have
(09:53):
the way to pay for finding thatdata out and having it makes
sense then, then you're notgoing to get there. So that's
the first certification is inthe ability to predict 80 to 93%
accurate, prior to theappearance of symptoms, that's
by intelligenie. The secondvalidation is about our ability
(10:14):
to predict the cost. So we knowwithin a margin of error of
about 7%, that then a givengroup's amount of risk, by
category or by condition is, isa certain number. That number is
around $8,000 a year. And weknow by the nature of our
(10:36):
experience, that certainorganizations are spending 10,
12, 13 - $15,000 per person peryear, some are spending six or
seven. And our job is to workwith that organization to
monitor and mitigate that totalspend risk. And of course, that
trickles down to the members.
The other validation is in thearea of care navigation. So
(11:00):
while we are a science andtechnology shop, we learned long
ago, that we have to do a goodjob of getting good data in,
which is why we do screenings,we want to make sure that data
that comes into our platformalong with medical claims and
pharmaceutical, along withpayroll data, biometric data,
(11:21):
DNA data, wearable data, we'recollecting all that data that's,
you know, what is needed to ourpredictive model to perform. And
but the output of it is, is youknow, how we engage members. And
the engagement in the populationhealth world is called care
navigation, we have aninteresting name we've been
(11:44):
using since 2004. We call itFantastic! Congratulations...
Wholeistic, coaching, spell itW-H-O-L-E-I-Stic. Meaning that
we don't really manage thedisease or try to fix a
lifestyle, we manage theindividual. And they may come to
us through a medical claim, or ahospital discharge, or a file
(12:08):
feed of, you know, certainpeople that maybe have a
condition or lifestyle categorythat we want to work on. But
once we tackle that individual,we take him through our
assessment. And then thatcreates an entire platform of
engagement, for our coaches touse. And, in 2 open competitions
against all competitors in ourspace that were interested in
(12:31):
getting recognized and competingin which there were over 100,
the only two times that thatcompetition was levied, we won
Gavin Quinnies (12:35):
Talking about beating enormous carriers like
them bothHumana Blue Cross, or especially
providers that are in areas oflet's say, diabetes, or
hypertension, or tobacco orstress. So the reason for that
is is part of a relationship wehad with the University of
(12:57):
Wisconsin Milwaukee many yearsago, where they heard about how
we were training our internalcoaches. And we were able to
then develop a three creditcourse for them around our
coaching program. And they wereone of largest sites in the
nation. And that's now an onlinetool, of course that our coaches
(13:18):
use, and many hundreds of otherprofessionals have learned how
to coach using that tool set. Sothe second time we won the
award, it was very interesting,the institute, which is run by
basically, derivative of theIntel GE validation Institute.
(13:39):
They came to us and said, "Youguys are so weird." It's the
word they used, because yourcoaching is done about the whole
person. And, and oh, by the way,using your own data to do the
analytics, because of the wayyou engage with the member and
the way your data allows you totarget your interventions, your
(13:59):
outcomes are off the chart. Andwe want a different category
because it isn't clearnavigation something different.
So if you look on our website,it actually says population
health management. That's thecategory that we chose, because
it's a combination science, andthe advocacy. And again, if you
look at our tagline or ourmission statement, it's about
(14:20):
the combination of science,technology and advocacy. Can't
can't win the battle that wefight in population health, at
the individual or aggregatelevel without having all three
of those working together. Andthat's traditionally a reason
for failure in our in ourindustry is the lack of the
combination of things and andwhen you look at coaching alone,
(14:43):
and our traditional engagementin healthcare and traditional
engagement through carriers asan example, you know, they have
a specialist for everything. Andso you got a member that's
bouncing around from thedietitian to maybe even a
diabetic educator, to a fitnessperson to tobacco or stress
person, and many times theinformation is competing, and
(15:06):
the messaging is not congruent.
So in our model, that wholeperson, that holistic coaching
isn't just about how we engagewith the member, that the
members one person to work withthat makes all the difference in
the world. It's really themedical home, the idea that you
want to have a single primarycare provider is quarterbacking
(15:29):
your care, they can't doeverything, but they're still
running the place. sure thatthat makes a huge difference.
Jessica Ollenburg (15:36):
And you've been an expert in this space for
so long, Gavin. And what I'mhearing is, it's not just the
validation that makes it sospecial, but you're also got a
very holistic integrative andproactive approach. You talk
about engagement. Sometimes wesee corporate programs falling
(15:57):
off, because the investment intothe screening is too high, or
people might be being dishonestin, in the data that they're
providing. I'm not hearing thatgreat possibility here. I'm
hearing that with thisengagement and with the ability
(16:17):
to provide your own data andanswer your own questions and
look at what changes andoutcomes might be suggested to
you. It's an opportunity for notonly the organization in its ROI
and risk management, but alsofor the individual to get to a
(16:39):
more comfortable place ofconfident care.
Gavin Quinnies (16:44):
Yeah, you know, it's it's such a rewarding
opportunity. You look, we'vebeen in business for 20 years,
right? So the amount of livesthat we've saved is just
unbelievable. I mean, you'retalking 10s of 1000s.
Jessica Ollenburg (16:58):
That's fantastic!
Gavin Quinnies (17:00):
Yeah... that have been affected, and when you
look at things like pancreaticcancer, ovarian cancer, cervical
cancer, breast cancer, heartdisease, liver disease, kidney
failure, these are all thingsthat we've helped avoid by
catching things early. And it'sfascinating. It is, it is not
(17:21):
easy. You do need to collect theright data and having that
validation that we have donethat right, because the only way
you get validated in yourability to predict is to have
failures. It's like how well dothe brakes work? Well, you got
to crash a lot of cars. Youknow, only a few of them
(17:41):
crashed. But you still have tocrash him otherwise you can't
figure out if your brakes gonnafail. So it's the same sort of
analysis on our side. And, and Ican tell you that hitting on a
point you were making aboutengagement is that we will find
out from the people that we canengage where the problems are.
(18:03):
That's the easy part. And ofthat population 100% of 100% of
our clients are going to reducetheir risk in categories. It is
it is a social guarantee thatwhen you are sitting in front of
an individual and communicatewith them their risk or
something. And they're like,Yeah, I don't want that because
(18:26):
my dad or mom or family memberor co worker, they're at that
point. And that's where it's soimportant to calculate by
condition, not by risk factor.
So you've got to look at the mapand the science intelligently
from a standpoint of where wheredoes the nexus point hit. And
the hard part in our industry isgetting the incentives aligned,
(18:49):
and getting the engagementaligned about about not just
assessing, but doing somethingabout it. And that's where the
care navigation, in addition tothe technology and science has
to be very personalized, has tobe about that individual. We
focus our energy on having thatdifferent coaching model.
Because without that, I mean,the technology is obviously
(19:12):
customized to the individual,right? It's not easy, but over
20 years, we've learned how todo that. And getting that that
one on one experience means thatall that information has to be
with that coach and also withthe member if you're just
teaching somebody how to cook onthe internet, and you're not
shoulder to shoulder with them,with the recipe in front of them
watching how they stir the potor beat the eggs or whatever,
(19:35):
then that opportunity is likewell, okay, the chef did it and
I like it. Our job is to get themember to engage not just around
their own health and their ownlifestyle, but also in their
engaging with their providers.
That's where that that scienceleads to the technology given
the information. Advocacy helpsthem learn how to utilize it,
(19:58):
and then correlate that to howthey behave with their providers
and maybe their householdmembers or their co workers.
Jessica Ollenburg (20:05):
Sure. And it would follow that with the
science, with the validity andwith the personalized approach,
plus the ability to to have theintegrative and holistic
coaching, those factors wouldcreate more buy in for the
employee to want to reallyengage, provide good information
(20:27):
and follow through. Those arethe outcomes that we find there
might... if there's skepticism,it's because people think it's
worthless, you know, why would Igive up this information, if
it's not gonna lead to anywherethat I want to go or any
information that I need. You'vegot that built in credibility
with this program.
Gavin Quinnies (20:48):
I can tell you, though, just, you know, the
industry is terrible atengagement. The average is
around 25%. And, you know, froman HR point of knowledge, the
25% that typically engage inwhat we call the "worried well."
These are people that already,you know, they want to actually
(21:08):
be rewarded for doing well. Sothose aren't the people that,
you know, say want to ignorethem, but they're not the people
that are going to be your nextstop loss shot claim. Sure, you
need to get 100% participation.
Now we average 71%, I sayaverage. So we are three times
the industry average, in ourengagement, that's because we
have a lot of folks that are at100%, they align the incentives
(21:30):
accordingly, to participate insome form of assessment and some
sort of follow up. And that'sour measure of engagement is
that they gathered informationabout themselves through our
tools. And then they review thatwith somebody which is typically
our coach and their provider.
(21:50):
And that is that is, you know,our measure of engagement. So if
it's at 71%, that's off thecharts, our goal is to help the
employer, find ways that theprogram becomes no costs or
becomes a profit center forthem. And we have many ways to
do that, given that then convertthe effort of the member into a
(22:14):
risk management strategy. Andthat's, that's where we're the
most successful. The reason whywe are at such a high amount of
average engagement is becausemost of our clients have come to
the conclusion that theseseparate different approaches,
disintegrated approaches,meaning, for example, a
(22:34):
telemedicine here and an EAPthere and onsite clinic there
and a diabetes or diseasemanagement program from their
carrier this way, they don'tsync. They don't they can't,
they're not intended to. And, ofcourse, we can integrate all of
those various programs into acommon approach. Through our
(22:57):
technology, our engagement orcommunication and marketing, we
could certainly do that. And wecould find the areas of
opportunity of complimentaryengagement. Like maybe our
coaches will talk to the directprimary care, or the Outside
Clinic, integrated tools asopposed to five or six or 10, or
even 12 different and that makesa difference. Typically, when
(23:20):
you do that, you can actuallyreduce your costs significantly,
and increase your outcomessignificantly.
Jessica Ollenburg (23:27):
Sure. Well it really sounds like such a
win-win. Seems like a real nobrainer to to look into it.
Thank you for bringing it to us.
71% average engagement isfantastic.
Gavin Quinnies (23:41):
We have a lot of clients that have 100%
participation. In fact, thatnumber is growing every single
day because we have builtprograms that require engagement
of a certain type to getincentives. And those incentives
are, you know, ever changing andgetting ever, ever more fun. In
(24:01):
fact, we are stepping into theVR world and and starting to use
all different kinds ofincentives to get members to
participate. And you know,that's going to take some time
to fully appreciate that. Andit's not for everybody. You
know, our target is typicallythe 50 year old person doesn't
have a doctor. So whetherthey're ready to go start
(24:22):
playing a virtual gamingenvironment in the metaverse is
yet to be completely determined.
Jessica Ollenburg (24:30):
(Joint laughter.)
Gavin Quinnies (24:31):
But you know, you make things more fun. And
And honestly, we have taken costcompletely out of the equation.
If you want to really learnabout how to do that. We know
how. We've got 1000s and 1000sof employers that have all kinds
of models, and more and more ofthem are taking advantage of the
opportunities to learn how towork in a no cost relationship
(24:56):
with us.
Jessica Ollenburg (24:57):
That's fantastic.
Thank you so much and thanksagain for bringing this great
tool set to us. I want to switcha little bit and talk about
entrepreneurism. We both andmany of our listeners connect
with bold and risk takingentrepreneurism. We did
summarize your career arc alittle bit in our intro, but
(25:17):
please, if you could divefurther tell us one or two of
your favorite stories or lightbulb moments along your
entrepreneurial journey.
Gavin Quinnies (25:28):
Well, you know, like most people that are
fortunate, there's some versionof mentorship and learning at an
earlier age. And I mean, mystory is kind of interesting,
because I was not a very goodmath student in high school. And
(25:49):
because of that, I wasparticipating in graphic arts as
an elective. And my parents werelooking for something that they
can have on their own. And, youknow, while I was a kid, we'd go
to the, these little seminarsabout, you know, how to own a
(26:09):
cheese shop or something. Oneday, we stumbled into a print
shop that was for sale that oneof our realtor friends was aware
of. And by chance, I knew how torun all the equipment, because I
was doing those kinds of thingsin high school. So at the ripe
(26:30):
old age of 15, my mom and Istarted a small family print
shop, so I got to learn a lotabout, you know, how to work
with your mom in a business, andhow not to of course, and, and
certainly the ins and outs ofbasic customer service, you
know, dealing with unhappy orhappy customers and the whole
(26:53):
creative experience. And back in1979, when we started this, that
was just really the first onsetof computerization into into the
printing world, which is, ofcourse, completely changed that
whole industry in the last 35 orso years, I was fortunate to get
a head start on that. And as itturned out, my father ended up
(27:15):
doing a leveraged buyout of themetals distribution firm, when I
was in college, I was working atthat during high school while he
was a general manager, and loand behold, you know, we go from
being a pretty average familyto, to having these businesses
that we were that we're running,and my brothers were into it
(27:36):
and, and other family members aswell. And so it was, it was
interesting for me, I got intoaerospace engineering, right out
of college, and got super luckyto get into what may still very
well be today, the best trainingprogram in that in that
(27:57):
industry. I'm a manufacturingengineer by graduation by a
degree. And so that's the areathat I was focusing in and got
involved in all kinds of AI andtech, way back when and some
crazy inventions, things likestereo lithography, which we now
know, is 3d printing, the binarylarge object which became the
(28:20):
hyperlink, that kind of justcrazy opportunity to learn from
wizards. And, and then, youknow, when I was running my own
shop, well, not my own, it wasour family's metals operation at
the time. You know, having that,that technology expertise in a
(28:42):
low tech industry, like metalsdistribution made a huge
difference. And so we instituteda quality and safety programs
that no one in our industry hadthat gave us risk, risk
management experience that noone had, because of that,
cultural management of arelatively low tech industry,
(29:06):
we, you know, put into place ISOprograms and quality and safety
programs. And eventually we'reable to leverage those into
training and education thatmanage health. And so we brought
on site clinics in back in the90s, which is where I eventually
(29:27):
learned about the riskmanagement and is really
rewarding at the time to save alife and frankly, the reason we
did it was a business need, butwe were growing. And, and we
wanted to make sure ouremployees were, you know, at
work and, and so we want to keepthem healthy. And we were giving
(29:48):
incentives for preventive care,many things like that were
traditionally part of yourdeductible. So someone had to
make an out of pocket decisionto go get a colonoscopy or see
their annual physician visit.
And so we paid for those thingsas part of our program, if you
participate in our wellnessprogram, ultimately, you know,
we exited, did very well, I gotto, you know, be consultant for
(30:13):
a while. And in one day, I got acall from a friend of mine that
I had hired to help me build anactivity based costing system
and accounting type approach.
And he was running IBM lifesciences, pharmaceutical
division, and they had decidedthat they were going to take all
the paper documentation that wasused for getting drugs approved
(30:37):
and electronify them, thencreate what we would now call a
document management system, youknow, Dropbox, ShareFile type of
thing, manage things, and no onehad done that back in 2002. So I
got to join a team of 15, otherIBMers, and in about 18 months,
we brought that thing to life.
And that opened my eyes tohealthcare tech, you know, I've
been involved in health carekind of clinic type stuff, I had
(31:00):
been involved in technology, butnot really the convergence of
that, and then meeting Dr.
Gavery at the right time, reallyopened up the whole opportunity
of what kind of business that,you know, I might want to invest
in and never thought, you know,and he's still talking about and
after 20 years, to be honest, Ithought it would go, you know,
(31:22):
crazy or go bust quickly. Andit's been a, an interesting,
slow burn. And I think that'sthe thing you have to take away
as an entrepreneur is, you know,there's a number of different
approaches to it. There's guys Iknow that that, that move
through companies in a couple ofyears pretty quickly. And
that's, that's how they do theirthing. A lot of that is
(31:42):
transactional, some of that isright time, right place, this is
really, you know, when I gotinto it, I knew it would, it
would either be my last gig,because we'd hit it big, or I
just be on it. Because thepassion, the success stories is
is I don't know about addicting,but it's satisfying. And it
(32:06):
keeps...
Jessica Ollenburg (32:06):
certainly fueling, yes...
Gavin Quinnies (32:07):
...keeps you wanting to continue to improve.
Because, you know, when you'rethinking about helping
employers, literally some ofthem, could go bankrupt if their
health plan was more expensive.
And so building health planswith employers, which is
something we do, buildingprograms that become profit
centers, in the populationoutside, we can lower an
(32:28):
employer's cost by 15, or 20%.
It's not hard at all, to behonest with you, and also save
the senior executives life, orcatastrophic health situation
or, or anyone, you know, on agiven team, that that's what
keeps you coming back. I think,as an entrepreneur, it's the
love of the game. And if thegame is continuing to evolve
(32:50):
your business or continuing to,you know, to spin companies,
either one is that. So yeah,it's, you know, it's a sport, if
you will. And, you know, Ithink, I think the hard part is
picking your partners, knowingwhere to go, knowing where to
grow. We've been very, veryfortunate we were able to
bootstrap with with just acouple of investors, I sometimes
(33:13):
wonder if we should have goneand taken that huge money, you
know, earlier on and, and gonethat route. And, you know, you
don't know until you're down theroad with the right players.
We're super, super fortunate tohave very, very high employee
retention. Almost no turnover atall, which is hard to do in a
tech startup. I mean, you'retalking about two guys starting
(33:36):
something out of theirbasements, literally mean, Dr.
Gavery and I, you know, theclassic starting out of your
basement with a couple ofcomputers. And we haven't lost
clients due to quality becauseyou're continuously paying
attention to their needs. So faralong the way. It's been, it's
been working out. Okay,
Jessica Ollenburg (33:56):
Thank you for sharing that backstory. And just
to circle back on a couple ofthings. You said, first of all,
the idea of creating healthplans and saving lives, I can't
think of anything more importantthan that! And the fact that
you're bringing an ROI and casestudies of cost savings, let us
know that you're making itdoable. We also talked a little
(34:16):
bit about the entrepreneurism.
You mentioned the familydynamic. It's my experience and
experience of most that thatfamily dynamic actually adds
complexity to learningentrepreneurship, leadership,
business, because we do take itpersonally there's... we have to
set boundaries, there needs tobe the hygiene and the clear job
(34:37):
descriptions, but it is adynamic that does influence our
mindset, and it helps prepare useven more. We talk a lot on this
show about youth development andhow important it is to give our
future leaders an opportunity toengage in leadership and be
developed as leaders at an earlyage, I worked with Bob Galvin
(35:01):
from Motorola, who believed that14 was pretty much the cut off,
if you didn't have a futureleader being developed as a
leader by the age of 14,opportunities were being missed.
And that was kind of his histhought on that. And for most
people, it makes sense.
Everyone's unique, but that'skind of a good rule of thumb.
Gavin Quinnies (35:26):
I had an opportunity to work in a family
situation. So there weredifferent dynamics there. I
mean, obviously, I wasqualified, I can't tell you the
number of interviews andpsychological exams and IQ tests
I had to go through to, to jointhe family firm, because we
believed in that, but I comingout of aerospace, I had become a
(35:50):
very process driven individual.
And, you know, you have 2balancing acts in any problem,
and that's the people and theprocess. So I suggested that we
let me do something which wasrevolutionary in that industry.
And actually all industry at thetime, really, and in 1991,
decided to take on ISOcertification. And that meant
(36:15):
that I literally had to doeveryone's job description.
Sure, I literally had to work onall the internal external KPIs,
I had to do all the training. SoI was shoulder to shoulder with
everybody at every level,leading them in ways they've
never been led before in thingslike quality circles, and, and,
you know, open communicationtools. And some of that I had
(36:38):
gone through in my, you know, mytraining programs, something
I've learned, but was what wasreally cool about it is the
ability to apply that. And itmade a huge difference. I mean,
we completely re engineered thecompany, from the inside out, we
had little or no politicalproblems, we created a means of
(36:58):
cultural and manufacturing,scientific and, you know, kind
of the applied growth, that anorganization needs to learn how
to excel. And it completelychanged the whole nature of the
of the organization, and that,that's really the biggest
(37:20):
opportunity that we were able toleverage that really resulted in
success. You know, I look at theway we run our shop today. It's
crazy. And you and I've had thisconversation, I've got 35 going
on 40 teammates, and they allreport to me. And that's is a
definition of insanity. However,the process is so strong, that
(37:44):
they don't need people tellingthem what to do, or evaluating
their performance. I do thattwice a year. And but it's the
process of how they'reorganized, and how they work
together in their various teamsthat really manage the day to
day, the the weekly, the monthlyand ultimately, you know, the
(38:05):
annual goals. And it's, it's aninteresting, it's an interesting
way to go about it. I don't knowhow, how much I can continue to
sustain it. As we grow, I don'twant to lose touch with
individuals. And that's my fear.
So losing touch through havinglayers of management in there or
(38:29):
losing touch just because youcan't be there for everyone all
the time. I don't know, which isthe which is the worst of the
two vehicles. So, but I'm sureyou'll help us figure that out
as well.
Jessica Ollenburg (38:41):
I wanted to give a quick shout out. You
mentioned Quality Circles and myfather Marvin Pinter was the
Midwest trainer. He worked withthe Quality Circles Institute
back in the 70s, in Red Bluff,California, and became the
Midwest trainer He did some ofthat through MRA at the time,
(39:05):
and it was a little difficult atthe time to get the buy in for
that. But you know, intuitivelyit just makes so much sense. Why
wouldn't you consult the peoplewho are working with that
process most closely? They can'talways make decisions but they
(39:26):
can certainly give you the datayou need.
Gavin Quinnies (39:31):
Yeah, I've threatened my team that they
haven't even seen us how we canreally excel in using tools like
that. And you know, the thingswe have to do -- HIPAA is
obviously driving everythingthat we do at the client side
and we have all the legaldepartment of labor and EEOC and
(39:51):
the ADA and and Department ofinsurances are always things
that we have to pay attentionto. But volunteering to go and
work on improving yourselfthrough a process like ISO or QS
9000. It's a whole otheruniverse. And maybe we'll do it
(40:14):
soon. I don't know -- have toput the one on the radar.
Jessica Ollenburg (40:18):
Well, so we'll see. All right, Gavin,
here's the question for all ofour Zenquesting leaders out
there. We've learned to optimizeour capacity by actively
refueling our tanks, beforethose tanks run dry. What do you
actively do to refuel andcalibrate when needed? In short,
(40:41):
Gavin, how do YOU zen?
Gavin Quinnies (40:43):
Well, I have a handful of tools that I've
adopted on a personal andprofessional nature. I, I
perform a relatively basicmeditation of gratitude every
day in the morning. And one ofthese crazy guys that brushes
(41:05):
his teeth and shaves in theshower. But my point is that
during that moment, brushing myteeth is primarily that the tool
I use, is I visualize my entireancestral tree, my great
grandparents down to mychildren, of course, and now my
(41:29):
grandchildren, and, and I getfacts in wish them well, and
send love. And I do the samething with those that I work
with. And those that I know,socially, that may be going
through challenges, and I thinkabout my day. So I, you know,
use a fleeting moment ofvisualizing who I'm meeting
(41:50):
with, and, and what theobjective of that task at hand
is. And it just is like a littleelectronic spark, you know, in
my, in my body, about thatmoment of opportunity. So that's
one thing. And then the otherthing that I do, and I actually,
(42:11):
I call this the power of Tzen.
It literally is a word somedayI'll write a little, you know,
procedure on it. It's spelledT-Z-E-N, okay? And it leverages
the concept. And I don't, Ididn't really learn this from
anybody, it's not something Iread. It's just something I
concluded not saying it's toounique. But just recognizing the
(42:34):
idea that the human brain canreally only keep track of about
10 things. So if you do IQtests, you know, if you can
remember nine or more numbers,you're like kind of a in the
genius level. So 10 is kind ofthat high watermark. So what I
do literally is I, I keep everysingle thing on my calendar, an
(42:58):
electronic calendar, I useOutlook. So if I'm going to make
a phone call, if I got to pay abill, if I need to perform a
project where I have to do acontract or research something
or obviously meetings, ofcourse, everything's on my
calendar, because it's a need.
The only commodity we have thatwe can control at our personal
(43:20):
level, is time. And whether youwaste your time freaking out
about something you saw on thenews, or exercising or having
relationship developmentopportunities, that's all you
have. And I do believe time iselastic, you can get more out of
a given moment in time, if youuse it wisely. So I don't think
(43:41):
it's always fixed. But there arecertainly so many hours in the
day. So that 10 balls in theair, that 10 reminders, if I
have more than 10 reminders thenI'm like, I have to go do
that... then I got to stop, thenthat's like, Okay, I got to work
tonight, or I got to work onSaturday, or I got to delegate
or I gotta take something out ofmy schedule, or I have to
(44:02):
postpone it. That's just thatside of it. The other side of
the of the power of Tzen is therecognition that at least during
the work week, we've got 10buckets of time. Monday morning,
Monday afternoon, Tuesdaymorning, Tuesday afternoon. And
so I run my timing around thoseblocks of time. And if I can
(44:22):
keep those things workingtogether in synchronicity, that
works really well and then Ihave to do things on the
weekend. I kind of say I onlygot 10 things that I can get
done this weekend, put in thelawn, visiting, you know, a
relative, working on my taxes,whatever the heck that might be.
(44:47):
You know, so that's thecalibration side of it. That has
nothing to do with recharging.
So the recharging for me istravel and new experiences and
the outdoors, I love theoutdoors. If I don't, if I don't
get grounded, if I don't, and myfeet, you know, outside or fresh
air in my lungs, or blue, youknow, or even a gray sky doesn't
(45:10):
matter if I'm if I'm outdoors, Ilove the water, trying to always
be by the water. And live by thewater. Most of my life, when I
vacation, I'm trying to be bythe water. If I'm in the
mountains, I'm trying to, I'mtrying to find, you know, a
river or lake to enjoy. Sothat's kind of my reboot. So to
(45:30):
me, that's, you know, that givesme and then the other funny
thing that we do is we run ourdays at 25 hours that US Health.
So it's a little weird by themiddle of the year working from
like, 3am to 9pm. But I'mkidding. We use a lot of time
out of the out of the time yougot I think is ultimately
Jessica Ollenburg (45:57):
there might be a wage and hours problem with
25 hours
Gavin Quinnies (46:00):
You go right to that labor law!
Jessica Ollenburg (46:04):
That's right.
(Laughter) Oh, that's great.
Thank you so much. All right.
Lastly, how can our listenerslearn more about or reach you?
Gavin Quinnies (46:16):
Well, we're, we're one of those funny
companies that has likeeverything we do on our website.
So you go to PredictiMed.com.
And if you actually read,there's podcasts like this,
there's interviews about me,we've had a lot of magazine
articles written about what wedo. And so that's kind of the
(46:37):
backstory side of it. You know,on the technical side, you can
read all about our applicationsand our modules and our
programs. There's successstories out there. And we have
our little process wheel outthere. So there's a ton there,
PredictiMed.com. You know, we'vegot over 7000 clients. So
(46:59):
there's definitely one that canrelate to the experience that
that a prospect wants to gothrough. We're easy to find, and
unfortunately, I'm the onlyGavin Quinnies on the planet. So
yeah, Google me up. And it's
Jessica Ollenburg (47:18):
and there you are. Well, this has been
fabulous. Thank you so much fortaking the time today and
sharing all the insights and allthe great things you're
bringing. It's always a pleasureto talk with you and work with
you.
Gavin Quinnies (47:32):
Yeah, Jess, and I appreciate all the good work
that you've done with us. And Iknow we'll continue to do so.
Thank you so very much.
Jessica Ollenburg (47:40):
Thank you, too, Gavin. Have a great day.
Take care.
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