Theology of Music

Theology of Music

As an associate professor of music and worship and part-time worship pastor, Cliff has spent years thinking deeply about the songs that we sing together as a church during our corporate worship services. Yet, instead of being another deconstructing voice, Cliff seeks to foster unique and edifying conversations with folks who create and lead the songs we sing in corporate worship.

Episodes

April 3, 2025 28 mins

My guest on this month's episode was long overdue! I got a chance to talk with Dr. Ryan Loche, the co-founder of The Church Collective https://www.instagram.com/thechurchcollective/. If you’re unfamiliar with this non-profit that encourages and resources worship leaders, you need to check it out on Instagram. I’ve known Dr. Loche for about 10 years, and he’s the real deal. He has served as a worship pastor in California and co...

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Colossians 3:16 not only guides the Church in WHY we should sing but WHAT we should be singing and WHY we should be singing it.


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December 16, 2024 21 mins

On this month’s episode, I bring back former guest, Justin Kintzel. While I’ve known Justin for a while through our connections at Liberty University and a quick coffee shop chat a couple of years ago, this will be my first time interviewing him. Justin has written several songs for corporate worship and currently serves as the worship pastor of Grace Church in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area.  He and his wife Ashley have 4 children ...

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Joel and I discuss giving our congregations more than just a musically emotional experience but facilitating opportunities for them to both proclaim and ingest lasting Truth. Such a rich episode!

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This is part 2 of my conversation with Brett Perkins, worship pastor at The Journey Church in Lebanon, TN. In this episode, Brett shares how they choose songs for corporate worship and even some of the things Journey Worship Co. processes as they write songs for the Church. So good!

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My conversation with Brett wasn't planned but it was SO good I had to hit record. In this episode, we discuss God's leading and how we discern the motivation behind stepping into opportunities the Lord places before us as those who lead people in musical corporate worship.  

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A great conversation with Pastor Kevin Haglund on his research regarding the role of emotions in corporate worship.  

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June 17, 2024 26 mins

Welcome or welcome back!  My name is Cliff, and I'm the new Theology of Music podcast host.  I'm excited to get to know you as we have discussions around the theology of the music we use in corporate worship settings.  Dr. Miller and I will discuss corporate worship's vertical and horizontal aspects in this episode.  

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In this episode, Joel discusses the good and bad trends within the reformed and more charismatic churches. Additionally, Joel gives his last encouragement and exhortation to the listeners of this podcast. 

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In this episode, Joel touches on a hot topic this year - whether churches should cancel services when Christmas falls on Sunday and how the song "Joy to the World" can inform our decisions. 

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In this episode, Joel lists the reasons why the podcast is coming to an end and what the last few weeks will look like. 

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In the last guest episode of the year, Joel sits down with Singer-Songwriter, Jackie Minton, to discuss how God continually utilized a certain Scripture to call her to make big leaps of faith and trust in His provision as well as the story behind her new song "Wherever I Go."

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In this episode, Joel sits down with Daniel Mulkey to talk about what it was like trusting God during a season of unemployment, serving in the church without agenda, and how our wives told us when they were pregnant again!

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In this episode, Joel sits down with Anna Smith who is the daughter of World-famous Christian Artist, Michael W Smith. In this episode, Joel and Anna talk about what it's like growing up with a famous dad, being jaded by hypocrisy in the Church, and how she found healing after a terrible divorce through writing plays.



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In this episode, Joel sits down with another fantastic worship leader and songwriter, Mitch Langley. They talk all about how God can use even the most wayward of sinners and bring them to a place where He uses them to spread His name. 

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In this episode, Joel sits down with Worship Leader and Singer-Songwriter Hunter Fraser to talk about how he focused on God when faced with debilitating sickness, why he continues to write, and what unites us as Christian musicians and songwriters. 

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In this episode, Joel sits down with the incredibly impressive Ronnie Martin who is the co-host of The Happy Rant Podcast, pastor of Substance Church, singer-songwriter with a Christmas Album just released,  Producer, and Author of a recent Advent Devotional, among other things. In this discussion, Joel and Ronnie talk about how God guided him and worked in him to get him to this place with so many things going on as well as why th...

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In this episode, Joel sits down with Brittany Batson who is a designer, model, singer-songwriter, and worship leader to discuss all things Christians impacting culture. Whether it's being a designer, worship leader, or whatever it is - Brittany states that we Christians are not impacting the culture around us as we could. 

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In this episode, Joel sits down with Dan Slater,  who is a singer-songwriter from Traverse City, MI. During the episode, Joel and Dan talk about why it is so important for youth to be plugged into a youth group worship team and what has influenced our music styles. 

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In this episode, Joel looks back on the last few weeks, the songwriter's retreat, the time with his family, and how God used a song by one of the pro-writers at the retreat to break down some sinful patterns. 

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