March 3, 2025 • 78 mins
This episode of the Theorist Composer Collaboration features the composer Isabella Temperville and her album The Recusant’s Dream. Music theorist Aaron D’Zurilla talks with Isabella about her interests, catch up with her since the last time on the podcast, discussing her master’s thesis, further work constructing the multimedia project in The Recusant’s Dream and much more!
Isabella contact:
Email: bellatempmusic@gmail.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/streetcomposer/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0Uk6rQ7d40fT3P42f10SMA
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The Recusant’s Dream is written, produced and released by Isabella Temperville
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(09:39):
on the program or anything that I post, but I just got done. Oh, we've messaged about it because we
were talking about this episode for a month or two, but we were both very busy with respective
things. But I just got done. No, not even just got done. It was over a month ago with PhD
applications and I'm starting to hear back from them now, which is terrifying. Actually on Tuesday,
(10:06):
well, people listening to this don't know, but how about two days from the recording of this?
I have an interview with the university of Minnesota for PhD. So we, again, you know, I might
repeat myself a bunch with this, but we, you know, talked a lot about your own stylistic self in the
previous episode, but from what I recall and what I mean by that is I listened to the episode again,
(10:31):
a couple of days ago in prep for this is, you know, so video game music composition, certainly. I
remember hints of Dark Souls, Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts. Can you talk more about that
influence and what it means to you? Yeah, certainly. Gosh, I don't even know where to begin
because I feel like I gave kind of a brief overview of that in the last episode, just how, oh, I grew
(10:55):
up listening to the Kingdom Hearts soundtrack. When I was younger, that's like what got me into
music. But I mean, so I also like went back and I listened to the episode recently just to kind of
like, you know, refresh myself on the whole interview process. But I was particularly like
(11:15):
focused on the question where you asked me like, oh, how would you describe yourself as a composer?
Because I wasn't really able to answer that question at first. And I think now I can sort of
answer it. It's not like a complete answer, but I think I have a better answer now. And I've noticed
(11:36):
recently in my composition process that I will go and I will listen to these video game soundtracks
that I love so dearly and I'll actually take notes on them. And when I go to compose, I will pull from
these notes, like things that I like in these video game soundtracks. And honestly, the way I would
(11:56):
describe myself is like a leitmotiv goblin or like a leitmotiv crow because I'm always collecting
bits and pieces from other music that I like. And I feel like there are a lot of composers that do
that, but specifically like video game tracks, like that's what I do with it. So it's, I don't
want to get into like the whole, oh, like it inspired me when I was a kid, because you know,
(12:20):
that's just the music that I listen to. But like nowadays I'm finding myself like actually taking
notes on the music that I'm listening to and finding things that I like. So I don't know if
that completely answers like the question in terms of, you know, how it influenced it. Well, I guess
it does. I don't even know. You know, how has that influence changed now that you're closer to the
(12:47):
end of your masters? Because I mean, like a man, people always say this, have said it that a master's
feels like a blink of an eye and yeah, they're right. They're right. Like at the beginning,
I was like, Oh really? Two years is two years, but two years is not much when you're busy all
the time. And so how has that style developed or changed for you? Yeah. So I'm going to go back and
(13:12):
say that when I got out of my undergraduate program, I was very used to writing like these
weird experimental type pieces that I don't want to say that I wasn't like super connected to, but
it was definitely an environment where like, I was told like what to compose, like you have to compose
(13:33):
like this, like kind of experimenting. And I understand that at the time, it was just
a matter of expanding like my compositional toolbox, learning techniques and things like that.
And now that I've been able to do my masters, I've gotten more freedom, which has been very nice.
(13:55):
And with that freedom, I've been able to kind of go back to my roots and actually pull from
music that I like and implement it into my own music. So that's been really nice. It's been this
like really cool transition of, I don't want to call it academic music, but writing like really
experimental things to writing things that are more authentic to me, I feel like. It's been really
(14:20):
strange, honestly. I don't know how else to describe it other than it's just been going from
being told what to write and then actually being able to write what I want to write.
Well, that's unfortunate for your undergraduate, but I guess that is the benefit of graduate school
is finding your own voice in that. And so let's talk about finding your voice in that, your
(14:47):
ultimate project for your master's degree, The Recusance Dream, the album that we're talking
about today. So let's get into it. So this was, it's not, I mean, it's new in the terms of time
space in the universe, but it's been out for a little bit at this point, which can you talk about
(15:09):
just the lead up to the project, releasing it, anything you want with that?
Yeah. So I know we talked about this last time too, cause I had alluded to like a summer release
to this new project. Listen, listen, I originally. I mean, your Instagram posts are really funny
(15:31):
where just months and months and months of I promise it's almost done. I promise it's almost
done. Listen, I'm about to get into like the reason why it took so long. Okay. But yeah,
so it was originally supposed to come out in the summer of 2024, but sadly we had a death in the
family. And so I had to return to Virginia and I stayed in Virginia until the beginning of the fall
(15:56):
semester. So I kind of had to put it on pause because I was with family and that honestly
wasn't at the forefront of my mind at the time. But I began working on it again after the fall
semester started. And I ended up sharing it with my applied lessons instructor. And she was actually
(16:17):
the one who suggested that I pushed the release date back to November because when I got back
to school, I was like, okay, I have to push this thing out as fast as possible because
my 102 followers on Instagram are going to get mad at me or whatever. And so she was like, no,
I think you should push it back because I want you to market for it, which that's, that was something.
(16:41):
I can talk about that a little bit too at some point, but.
I totally want you to. That's so, was it your applied lessons instructor or yourself?
I'm just surprised that this is accepted as a thesis project for composition. It's a little
bit unorthodox compared to what I normally see for a master's thesis. Right. So in terms of a
(17:04):
thesis, like I originally thought that they were going to make me write a paper, but yeah, at my
school, I was told that your thesis is essentially just a big piece of music.
That's what, that's what I've heard from my colleagues as well too.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that was also something that I don't want to say it was my professor's
(17:26):
idea, but she kind of like, she, she kind of put it into my head that like, she was like, oh,
anything can be your thesis. And I ended up showing her, like I said, I showed her the album when I
actually finished it. And she was like, oh, this is good. Like, I really like this. It really seems
to represent who you are as a composer. And I think it's your best work so far. And it was just
(17:50):
kind of this moment when she said that, when, when she said this is like the, the best representation
of like who you are as a composer up to date, it kind of hit me. I was like, okay, that's my thesis
then. Like it was kind of this like epiphany aha moment where, I don't know, because I had spent so
long trying to think like, oh, I don't know what kind of piece I'm going to write for this thesis
(18:12):
because it's important. Like it's literally what's getting me the degree. It was just one of those,
like maybe the thesis was the, the friends or the music we made along the way type situations.
So I guess I had been working on it. It just, you know, when she said that this is like the
best representation of who you are as an artist to date, that's when it really hit me. I think
(18:37):
that's when the decision was made at least. Sure. Sure. That's really cool that your faculty were
so open to this sort of project. I can't really speak to the professors at Florida state because
I've never seen someone come up with something like this for a thesis, but that is very cool
that, that is accepted for it. And so let's talk about that marketing, which you have done on your
(19:03):
social media platforms. And I followed as you released, you essentially gave little, very little
lore dumps with some, uh, uh, audio preview of the tracks of the album, along with some of your
creative process, which anyone navigating to Isabella's social media accounts can see very
(19:25):
clearly, uh, links in the description, of course, but can you tell me a bit about, uh, why, uh,
you did other than obvious, you wanted to promote the album, but why you did it in the way that you
did and what that was like. Okay. So like I said, my professor pushed me to market it. If she hadn't
(19:48):
like said anything about it, I would have just pushed it out as fast as possible. Um, but you
know, when she brought this idea to me, I was a little hesitant at first because like, how do you
even go about marketing an IP that's not, you know, official, let alone like a soundtrack for like an
IP that doesn't exist. Like it's literally in my brain. I'm like, how do I market something that's
(20:11):
not already there, if that makes sense. Um, but she was actually getting ready to release her own
album. And so she was doing her own, uh, series of marketing. So I actually, you know, looked at the
way that she was promoting her music. She did kind of a similar thing with the videos where she would
(20:33):
take a track from her CD and then, you know, make like an iMovie clip that gives a little bit of
information about the track, like who the performers were, what it's inspired by that kind of thing.
And so I took that idea and I decided to create little, uh, lore dump clips to go with the little
clip of music. And in terms of like the, the little mini process program notes, that was, uh,
(20:58):
that was completely my idea. She hadn't done that yet, but it was kind of an expansion of,
um, the lore dump clip. And I figured if I write program notes and I post them, it kind of gives me
more material to work with in terms of marketing. So now I have like, you know, more to post and
more, more to expose people to. Um, so yeah, that's honestly, that's it in terms of marketing.
(21:22):
That's it. It was kind of weird. Yeah. I, I didn't like doing it. Um, it's, it's kind of,
I don't even know how to describe it. It was, I know it's necessary. It's just, how do you promote
this kind of music? You know, I felt kind of at a loss of how to do it. And so this was just me kind
of experimenting with that. Yeah. I really liked the artwork that you attached to the different
(21:47):
things. I thought that added a lot of the, the biblical like Renaissance painting style things,
which yeah, yeah, yeah. Attached to the kind of atmosphere. And let's talk about the atmosphere.
So, uh, Isabella did call it earlier a multimedia project, uh, and it certainly is. And, uh, if it
(22:10):
hasn't already been said clearly, I think it has enough, but I'll, I'll just say it again, that
Recusance Dream is more than just an album and it's more than just a concept album. It is the
the pairing of a larger world that Isabella is the creator and curator of over many, many years.
(22:32):
Uh, as I remember you saying the other episode goes back to things that you came up with in middle
and then high school and undergrad. And so this is this, uh, this story, this world has been a big
part of everything that you've done. Now, if you want a really anal explanation or exploration,
uh, of the lore, I'm going to reference you back to episode 12, but I'm going to allow Isabella to,
(22:58):
I know this is one of the things that we talked about last time about how to present it is that
you can't really just give a quick explanation about something you've worked on for a large chunk
of your life, but what can you tell the audience about what this multimedia project, like the story
of it and then Recusance Dream? Give it your best shot. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Don't worry. I think,
(23:26):
I think I got it. So in the briefest of summaries, um, this narrative is dubbed the Firebird
project. That's just like the, the concept name. I don't have a, a clear name for the actual
narrative yet, but that's, that's what I'm calling it. But anyways, um, it takes place in an alternate
world where God is actually a power hungry angel that has, um, all of angel kinds kind of brainwashed
(23:52):
and under his control. And, uh, demons are sort of eternally punished by a curse that is, um,
that the so-called God inflicted upon them in like the ancient times. So that's like the briefest,
most condensed summary of the actual lore aspect that I could possibly give. Um, the actual story
(24:13):
follows a girl who is a demon who has to kind of navigate this world while having this all consuming
curse, which is the, the recusance curse. Um, and at first she believes that the enemy is other demons
as they are like purposely pitted against each other by the angels, um, you know, keeping the
conflict sort of controlled between them. Uh, but this actually slowly evolves. She then realizes,
(24:39):
oh, the enemy is actually the angels who are the oppressors. But then it finally reaches the
establishment where she realizes the enemy is the establishment or God himself, which is the very
entity that, um, casted the recusance curse in the first place. So that's like the most abbreviated
(24:59):
summary I could give about this story because it's, it's truly a lot. Yeah. That, that, that was, uh,
that was pretty, pretty well rounded. Uh, it took us, took us, uh, collectively about like 45 minutes
to go through that amount of lore and not even that much detail last time. So that's pretty good.
(25:20):
I would say. And you know, what's funny is that this album, the recusance curse is not beat by
beat necessarily, but it's a retelling of the established, like the world war from the first
half of your explanation, uh, not necessarily the narrative, but the lore. Am I right about that?
(25:43):
Yeah. So, um, the album, the recusance dream is more so about the lore, whereas infernal suite was
kind of telling bits and pieces of this, uh, store, like the actual story that I had in mind. Um,
yeah. Recusance dream is 100% connected to lore. And I think the reason is because at the time,
(26:06):
when we first, uh, did that episode, I had been working so much on lore. So that's just where my
brain was at, um, at the time. So, but I'm ready to like actually get back into the actual narrative
writing, which would be nice. Sure. I mean, the lore itself is heavy. It's like, dude, it's, yeah,
I'm, I'm so sick of it. I'm not sick of it, but it gets to a point where I'm like, okay, like I,
(26:31):
I have this lore established. Now I want to put characters into this world and I want to do things
with them. And I want, I want to actually write the story that has the lore with it. I don't even
know. It's a lot. It's, it's literally so much information. And I have Google docs upon Google
docs that just explain all of it. So I don't even know, man. It's crazy. Well, let's get into it. I
(26:57):
hope you're not too sick of it because we're going to retread it again in this episode, the recusance
motif.
(28:33):
On Instagram and earlier in this episode, you mentioned about your love and use of light motifs,
reoccurring ideas that show up in music. They're meant to represent ideas and sometimes people or
(28:56):
characters. And on Instagram, you describe this album and starting with this track, the recusance
motif, you describe this whole project as a light motif fest. Can you describe that a bit and talk
a bit about this first track, the recusance motif? Yeah, of course. So the recusance motif was
(29:19):
originally titled surrender and sleep. And it was written in 2019 right before I was about to start
my undergraduate program. It belonged to another project that was related to a story that I'm no
longer working on. It's kind of dead and buried. And I just have this like 17 song collection
(29:39):
sitting on my computer. And I kind of forgot about it until I rediscovered it this past year, 2024.
And I was kind of having difficulty getting ideas for new music. And I found this piece and I
figured that since, you know, I'm not really doing anything with it right now, what if I just pulled
(30:01):
all of like, well, not all of my melodic material, but what if I pulled a lot of melodic material
from this piece that I wrote in 2019 that's just kind of sitting there. So it's technically not
like a canon track to this world. This piece is on the album more so to just kind of give, I don't
(30:24):
even know how to explain it. It's like, it's like physical evidence to me that I have improved as a
composer because this piece was written in 2019. And the rest of the music on this album does pull
content from it. So it's just kind of interesting to see like where I was in 2019. And then, you
know, be immediately slapped in the face with music that I wrote recently. It's a really cool
(30:48):
development, I feel like. But yeah, it's just, that's just kind of the material that I used
for this album. It really has nothing to do with the lore. So
CB There enough. And certainly the next track does. Now, the second track on the album is titled
(31:08):
Prelude and in parentheses, the vision.
(32:38):
Now, I know very well what this is about. And of course, you do as well. But before you get into
(33:04):
the mechanics of the track, can you tell us a bit about the story? And now we're going to have to
get into a little bit of detail about the lore background of the Firebird saga with the vision.
So if you could do the honors with that.
Kite Perfect. Okay, so the vision refers to like a little premonition that Lucifer has after he is, well, it's a premonition he has, and it's in reference to, you know, what the angels are doing with all these souls. I'm not going to really get into all the nitty gritty, because we already spoke about lore in the last episode.
(33:48):
All you really need to know is that he sees something terrible and this terrible vision, it encourages him to defect from the order of the archangels who he had originally pledged his allegiance to. And in a sense, this piece is, you know, it's a vision in both like the narrative sense, but also in the literal sense, because it like it foreshadows every single piece on the album, every single piece.
(34:19):
I'm trying to find the right word for it. It has fragments of the other tracks. So it is a musical premonition, so to speak. But yeah, that's, I can literally get into like the nitty gritty, but I'm not even gonna I'm not even gonna do that. It'll take me forever to describe as
(34:40):
you know, sure. Yes. I mean, it would take me forever to it's not necessarily simple. But, you know, I remember half a year ago when we did talk about it. Lucifer's vision, this premonition was horrifying to him. But it was not spoken. What was in the vision purposely ambiguous for a later telling. And I remember in the episode was pretty funny. You said, you actually really didn't know what he saw yet.
(35:10):
You don't have to say it yet. But do you know what he saw? No, no.
And honestly, maybe it's not for me to know. Maybe I'm just as in the dark as everyone else. You know, I feel like sometimes it's best to leave things unanswered because I know with me and media, sometimes I like to project like my own thoughts and ideas onto unanswered questions.
(35:39):
And right now I don't think the actual contents of the vision are necessarily like super important to the plot. It's more so like what he does after seeing this vision like the actions that he takes. That's important. So I might come up with, you know, what was actually seen in the vision later. But as for now, I just don't think that's for me to know quite yet. Even though I'm literally the creator, and I'm making this stuff up.
(36:06):
Sure. And now on to the third track, the one after it, titled The Order, which is in reference to the order of archangels who are going around stealing the souls of living things for themselves. The one the order being the group that Lucifer was a part of and after his premonition, the vision of the previous track is no longer part of.
(37:36):
What can you talk about the order track?
Sure. So I had really mixed feelings about the order when I first wrote it. I honestly wasn't in the mood to compose anything. But it was one of those times where I was like, I'm a composer, like I have to sit down and I have to put, you know, I have to put my head into it and I just have to do it. So it was definitely an exercise in working through a creative block, but also not half assing the piece. And, you know, because sometimes when you're not in the mood to do something, you'll get lazy about it. So I feel like that's kind of the way it is.
(38:20):
I feel like it was a really good exercise. But I am actually really happy with how it turned out. It accomplished what I needed it to, which was serving as a theme for the order of archangels. The way I want them to appear in the story is kind of like actual biblical angels, because I think we also discussed before how, you know, sometimes in media, they're kind of portrayed as like these benevolent creatures.
(38:49):
But there are some portrayals of angels that are like horrific. And that's the kind of angel that I wish to portray. It kind of hits on some of like that Lovecraftian horror type genre for me, which I really love. It's honestly inspired a lot of this lore in this story of just being in the presence of an entity that is so powerful and so all consuming that you cannot process it and your mind shatters.
(39:19):
So that's kind of what I wanted to portray with the order.
Yeah, you know, it's actually I was thinking about this the previous month around, you know, Christmas time, you know, going to church and hearing the the Christmas story again this year. And the part where I think it's the angel Gabriel in the Bible, not your angel Gabriel appears before Joseph. And the first thing he says is don't be afraid.
(39:50):
If you look at really old art, it's specifically old pre enlightenment artwork of biblical angels, and they are terrifying. So I think when you say that I think about, you know, the artwork of the angel visiting Joseph for the Christmas story. What if it was more like one of your angels than the typically seen, you know, Sistine Chapel sort of artwork.
(40:18):
So very fascinating play on biblical works. So next is the recusant's curse, which is the scourge put upon the angels who sided with Lucifer and who disobeyed this order of let's face it, evil angels.
(40:48):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
(41:28):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
(41:58):
Mm hmm.
And the recusant's curse it's in the namesake of the album as well the recusant's dream. What can you tell us about the recusant's curse. The recusant's curse was actually my favorite piece to write, and I think it's because it's actually just a reimagined version of surrender and sleep, which I wrote in 2019, which was recusant's motive the first track of the album.
(42:40):
And I think it really shows like just how much I've improved as an artist. I mean, contextually, it's like the most important track in the entire album.
Just because of like what it represents in terms of the actual narrative and the lore, but to me personally, it's very important. It's like physical evidence that I have grown as a composer. Sure, sure.
(43:11):
And so let's let's get a little lore like for a second. So the recusant's curse is like in the lore is, if I were to compare it because I know you draw like inspiration is like the dark sign or humanity from Dark Souls put upon humankind and it's like a decaying disease that completely debilitates someone.
(43:40):
Now, can you describe it a little bit more than that? I know the affliction is on angels, or does it get transferred to other people? It gets put on the demons too, right?
So the curse gets put on the angels and when an angel is cursed, that's when they become a demon. That's what marks a demon as a demon. It's kind of like how in Dark Souls, like if you have the dark sign, like you're that's what you are, you're undead, whatever.
(44:11):
So it's kind of like a marker. If you have it, that's what you are. But the next track, the Morning Star Always Falls, is actually I think that one is about the aftermath of when one succumbs to the curse. So the curse is it's a consumption type curse.
(44:33):
A demon has to constantly feed off of human souls to satiate the curse or else they will essentially go hollow, which a little Dark Souls reference. But the way I describe it is that you essentially become like a husk of your former self. And it's like a fate worse than death type thing.
(44:57):
Very Dark Souls. Yeah, I haven't really fleshed out exactly what happens just because I want to... I don't even know how to describe it. I'm like getting off track again. But that's another thing I still have to flesh out a little bit more. All I know is that it's kind of similar to the Dark Souls.
Like you, the more you die type thing, like the more hollow you get, it's a consumption. Sure. Sure. And let's talk about that next track that you just brought up titled Morning Star.
(45:45):
Morning Star
(46:15):
Morning Star
(46:39):
And as you describe in your promotional material, it is the ultimate demise of Lucifer. He summons up the people who agree with him, his underlings of angels who follow him to fight against the order. And it goes very poorly, very quickly. It's not even close.
Lucifer fails along with his colleagues. That's a weird word to use for this. But and he is the first person to be afflicted by the recusance curse and dies from it. He well, but he's not fully dead. I remember you saying that.
(47:20):
Or he might be not fully dead because everything's cyclical. Okay, whatever. So he's dead. He's dead for the most part. And can you talk a bit about this track? But then I also have a follow up question about something you said in your promotional material about it. But what can you tell us about Morning Star?
(47:41):
Okay, so this track is supposed to be oppressive. I wanted it to represent a kind of like hopelessness with the current situation because it very much is about like Lucifer's demise and him succumbing to the recusance curse and kind of just, you know, all is lost type vibe.
(48:05):
And actually, interestingly enough, a lot of people who have listened to the album have cited this piece as their favorite. And that was like really surprising to me because I would have imagined it would have been like the vision or the recusance strife.
Like, it was just surprising to me and I want to know why this one was their favorite. Yeah, I mean, that's just that's what I can think of off the top of my head about this piece. I mean, just creating that vibe of oppression, I feel the vibe of oppression.
(48:38):
Nice.
Very nice. And so my follow up is in your promotional materials, you say that Lucifer said something to his firstborn, which then becomes a rallying cry or motivation to continue the fight against the order.
(49:02):
And you say specifically that it is not known what he said. I'm sure that's a it's an opportunity later on in your story. But do you know what he said?
I'm going to say what I said earlier.
That is not for me to know right now.
(49:23):
I feel like that's okay. Honestly, I'm on the fence right now. I don't know if it's going to be something like super important like game changing like only the firstborn of Lucifer knows this and it could potentially like, you know,
change it or like, you know, switch tables, whatever. Or if it was something like really sentimental and dumb because he's like talking to his firstborn son and his like last hour, you know what I'm saying? Like it could have been something really important or it could have not have been something important.
(49:53):
I think that's another instance of not people, but I guess in this case, demons like reacting to something in a certain way. I don't even know. Cut that last bit. I started like, I don't even know. I'm dude, this is so difficult here at my parents house. I keep getting distracted.
It's okay. And you know, not to throw it in your face. I had a feeling that the answer was that you didn't quite know yet. But I just I just wanted to ask because that's the sort of thing where it's like, you read that and you're like, oh, that's going to be important at some point down the line that might be yours.
(50:32):
I think it would be super funny though if we did eventually find out what it was and it was something like dumb, you know, like you spend all this time like, oh, what he said had to have been so important, like game changing. And then it's just like, I don't know. I love you son, something like that.
(50:54):
That would be disappointing depending on how you handle that. And so the fallout from the fall or disappearance, however you want to say of Lucifer, Lucifer, not Lucifer, and the beginning of what is known as the infernal war between demons and angels and infighting.
(51:16):
And that's where the modern day quote unquote of your narrative comes in. And that's also where the name of the infernal suite, the other album comes from the infernal war. The Recusance Strife, the second to last track in the album is an application of the motifs that you've talked about before.
(51:37):
And you describe it as a battle setting of such motifs representing the infernal war, the war that takes place between angels and demons after the fall of Lucifer and what leads to the modern setting of the Firebird Saga.
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So
on the program or anything that I post, but I just got done. Oh, we've messaged about it because we
were talking about this episode for a month or two, but we were both very busy with respective
things. But I just got done. No, not even just got done. It was over a month ago with PhD
applications and I'm starting to hear back from them now, which is terrifying. Actually on Tuesday,
(10:06):
well, people listening to this don't know, but how about two days from the recording of this?
I have an interview with the university of Minnesota for PhD. So we, again, you know, I might
repeat myself a bunch with this, but we, you know, talked a lot about your own stylistic self in the
previous episode, but from what I recall and what I mean by that is I listened to the episode again,
(10:31):
a couple of days ago in prep for this is, you know, so video game music composition, certainly. I
remember hints of Dark Souls, Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts. Can you talk more about that
influence and what it means to you? Yeah, certainly. Gosh, I don't even know where to begin
because I feel like I gave kind of a brief overview of that in the last episode, just how, oh, I grew
(10:55):
up listening to the Kingdom Hearts soundtrack. When I was younger, that's like what got me into
music. But I mean, so I also like went back and I listened to the episode recently just to kind of
like, you know, refresh myself on the whole interview process. But I was particularly like
(11:15):
focused on the question where you asked me like, oh, how would you describe yourself as a composer?
Because I wasn't really able to answer that question at first. And I think now I can sort of
answer it. It's not like a complete answer, but I think I have a better answer now. And I've noticed
(11:36):
recently in my composition process that I will go and I will listen to these video game soundtracks
that I love so dearly and I'll actually take notes on them. And when I go to compose, I will pull from
these notes, like things that I like in these video game soundtracks. And honestly, the way I would
(11:56):
describe myself is like a leitmotiv goblin or like a leitmotiv crow because I'm always collecting
bits and pieces from other music that I like. And I feel like there are a lot of composers that do
that, but specifically like video game tracks, like that's what I do with it. So it's, I don't
want to get into like the whole, oh, like it inspired me when I was a kid, because you know,
(12:20):
that's just the music that I listen to. But like nowadays I'm finding myself like actually taking
notes on the music that I'm listening to and finding things that I like. So I don't know if
that completely answers like the question in terms of, you know, how it influenced it. Well, I guess
it does. I don't even know. You know, how has that influence changed now that you're closer to the
(12:47):
end of your masters? Because I mean, like a man, people always say this, have said it that a master's
feels like a blink of an eye and yeah, they're right. They're right. Like at the beginning,
I was like, Oh really? Two years is two years, but two years is not much when you're busy all
the time. And so how has that style developed or changed for you? Yeah. So I'm going to go back and
(13:12):
say that when I got out of my undergraduate program, I was very used to writing like these
weird experimental type pieces that I don't want to say that I wasn't like super connected to, but
it was definitely an environment where like, I was told like what to compose, like you have to compose
(13:33):
like this, like kind of experimenting. And I understand that at the time, it was just
a matter of expanding like my compositional toolbox, learning techniques and things like that.
And now that I've been able to do my masters, I've gotten more freedom, which has been very nice.
(13:55):
And with that freedom, I've been able to kind of go back to my roots and actually pull from
music that I like and implement it into my own music. So that's been really nice. It's been this
like really cool transition of, I don't want to call it academic music, but writing like really
experimental things to writing things that are more authentic to me, I feel like. It's been really
(14:20):
strange, honestly. I don't know how else to describe it other than it's just been going from
being told what to write and then actually being able to write what I want to write.
Well, that's unfortunate for your undergraduate, but I guess that is the benefit of graduate school
is finding your own voice in that. And so let's talk about finding your voice in that, your
(14:47):
ultimate project for your master's degree, The Recusance Dream, the album that we're talking
about today. So let's get into it. So this was, it's not, I mean, it's new in the terms of time
space in the universe, but it's been out for a little bit at this point, which can you talk about
(15:09):
just the lead up to the project, releasing it, anything you want with that?
Yeah. So I know we talked about this last time too, cause I had alluded to like a summer release
to this new project. Listen, listen, I originally. I mean, your Instagram posts are really funny
(15:31):
where just months and months and months of I promise it's almost done. I promise it's almost
done. Listen, I'm about to get into like the reason why it took so long. Okay. But yeah,
so it was originally supposed to come out in the summer of 2024, but sadly we had a death in the
family. And so I had to return to Virginia and I stayed in Virginia until the beginning of the fall
(15:56):
semester. So I kind of had to put it on pause because I was with family and that honestly
wasn't at the forefront of my mind at the time. But I began working on it again after the fall
semester started. And I ended up sharing it with my applied lessons instructor. And she was actually
(16:17):
the one who suggested that I pushed the release date back to November because when I got back
to school, I was like, okay, I have to push this thing out as fast as possible because
my 102 followers on Instagram are going to get mad at me or whatever. And so she was like, no,
I think you should push it back because I want you to market for it, which that's, that was something.
(16:41):
I can talk about that a little bit too at some point, but.
I totally want you to. That's so, was it your applied lessons instructor or yourself?
I'm just surprised that this is accepted as a thesis project for composition. It's a little
bit unorthodox compared to what I normally see for a master's thesis. Right. So in terms of a
(17:04):
thesis, like I originally thought that they were going to make me write a paper, but yeah, at my
school, I was told that your thesis is essentially just a big piece of music.
That's what, that's what I've heard from my colleagues as well too.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that was also something that I don't want to say it was my professor's
(17:26):
idea, but she kind of like, she, she kind of put it into my head that like, she was like, oh,
anything can be your thesis. And I ended up showing her, like I said, I showed her the album when I
actually finished it. And she was like, oh, this is good. Like, I really like this. It really seems
to represent who you are as a composer. And I think it's your best work so far. And it was just
(17:50):
kind of this moment when she said that, when, when she said this is like the, the best representation
of like who you are as a composer up to date, it kind of hit me. I was like, okay, that's my thesis
then. Like it was kind of this like epiphany aha moment where, I don't know, because I had spent so
long trying to think like, oh, I don't know what kind of piece I'm going to write for this thesis
(18:12):
because it's important. Like it's literally what's getting me the degree. It was just one of those,
like maybe the thesis was the, the friends or the music we made along the way type situations.
So I guess I had been working on it. It just, you know, when she said that this is like the
best representation of who you are as an artist to date, that's when it really hit me. I think
(18:37):
that's when the decision was made at least. Sure. Sure. That's really cool that your faculty were
so open to this sort of project. I can't really speak to the professors at Florida state because
I've never seen someone come up with something like this for a thesis, but that is very cool
that, that is accepted for it. And so let's talk about that marketing, which you have done on your
(19:03):
social media platforms. And I followed as you released, you essentially gave little, very little
lore dumps with some, uh, uh, audio preview of the tracks of the album, along with some of your
creative process, which anyone navigating to Isabella's social media accounts can see very
(19:25):
clearly, uh, links in the description, of course, but can you tell me a bit about, uh, why, uh,
you did other than obvious, you wanted to promote the album, but why you did it in the way that you
did and what that was like. Okay. So like I said, my professor pushed me to market it. If she hadn't
(19:48):
like said anything about it, I would have just pushed it out as fast as possible. Um, but you
know, when she brought this idea to me, I was a little hesitant at first because like, how do you
even go about marketing an IP that's not, you know, official, let alone like a soundtrack for like an
IP that doesn't exist. Like it's literally in my brain. I'm like, how do I market something that's
(20:11):
not already there, if that makes sense. Um, but she was actually getting ready to release her own
album. And so she was doing her own, uh, series of marketing. So I actually, you know, looked at the
way that she was promoting her music. She did kind of a similar thing with the videos where she would
(20:33):
take a track from her CD and then, you know, make like an iMovie clip that gives a little bit of
information about the track, like who the performers were, what it's inspired by that kind of thing.
And so I took that idea and I decided to create little, uh, lore dump clips to go with the little
clip of music. And in terms of like the, the little mini process program notes, that was, uh,
(20:58):
that was completely my idea. She hadn't done that yet, but it was kind of an expansion of,
um, the lore dump clip. And I figured if I write program notes and I post them, it kind of gives me
more material to work with in terms of marketing. So now I have like, you know, more to post and
more, more to expose people to. Um, so yeah, that's honestly, that's it in terms of marketing.
(21:22):
That's it. It was kind of weird. Yeah. I, I didn't like doing it. Um, it's, it's kind of,
I don't even know how to describe it. It was, I know it's necessary. It's just, how do you promote
this kind of music? You know, I felt kind of at a loss of how to do it. And so this was just me kind
of experimenting with that. Yeah. I really liked the artwork that you attached to the different
(21:47):
things. I thought that added a lot of the, the biblical like Renaissance painting style things,
which yeah, yeah, yeah. Attached to the kind of atmosphere. And let's talk about the atmosphere.
So, uh, Isabella did call it earlier a multimedia project, uh, and it certainly is. And, uh, if it
(22:10):
hasn't already been said clearly, I think it has enough, but I'll, I'll just say it again, that
Recusance Dream is more than just an album and it's more than just a concept album. It is the
the pairing of a larger world that Isabella is the creator and curator of over many, many years.
(22:32):
Uh, as I remember you saying the other episode goes back to things that you came up with in middle
and then high school and undergrad. And so this is this, uh, this story, this world has been a big
part of everything that you've done. Now, if you want a really anal explanation or exploration,
uh, of the lore, I'm going to reference you back to episode 12, but I'm going to allow Isabella to,
(22:58):
I know this is one of the things that we talked about last time about how to present it is that
you can't really just give a quick explanation about something you've worked on for a large chunk
of your life, but what can you tell the audience about what this multimedia project, like the story
of it and then Recusance Dream? Give it your best shot. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Don't worry. I think,
(23:26):
I think I got it. So in the briefest of summaries, um, this narrative is dubbed the Firebird
project. That's just like the, the concept name. I don't have a, a clear name for the actual
narrative yet, but that's, that's what I'm calling it. But anyways, um, it takes place in an alternate
world where God is actually a power hungry angel that has, um, all of angel kinds kind of brainwashed
(23:52):
and under his control. And, uh, demons are sort of eternally punished by a curse that is, um,
that the so-called God inflicted upon them in like the ancient times. So that's like the briefest,
most condensed summary of the actual lore aspect that I could possibly give. Um, the actual story
(24:13):
follows a girl who is a demon who has to kind of navigate this world while having this all consuming
curse, which is the, the recusance curse. Um, and at first she believes that the enemy is other demons
as they are like purposely pitted against each other by the angels, um, you know, keeping the
conflict sort of controlled between them. Uh, but this actually slowly evolves. She then realizes,
(24:39):
oh, the enemy is actually the angels who are the oppressors. But then it finally reaches the
establishment where she realizes the enemy is the establishment or God himself, which is the very
entity that, um, casted the recusance curse in the first place. So that's like the most abbreviated
(24:59):
summary I could give about this story because it's, it's truly a lot. Yeah. That, that, that was, uh,
that was pretty, pretty well rounded. Uh, it took us, took us, uh, collectively about like 45 minutes
to go through that amount of lore and not even that much detail last time. So that's pretty good.
(25:20):
I would say. And you know, what's funny is that this album, the recusance curse is not beat by
beat necessarily, but it's a retelling of the established, like the world war from the first
half of your explanation, uh, not necessarily the narrative, but the lore. Am I right about that?
(25:43):
Yeah. So, um, the album, the recusance dream is more so about the lore, whereas infernal suite was
kind of telling bits and pieces of this, uh, store, like the actual story that I had in mind. Um,
yeah. Recusance dream is 100% connected to lore. And I think the reason is because at the time,
(26:06):
when we first, uh, did that episode, I had been working so much on lore. So that's just where my
brain was at, um, at the time. So, but I'm ready to like actually get back into the actual narrative
writing, which would be nice. Sure. I mean, the lore itself is heavy. It's like, dude, it's, yeah,
I'm, I'm so sick of it. I'm not sick of it, but it gets to a point where I'm like, okay, like I,
(26:31):
I have this lore established. Now I want to put characters into this world and I want to do things
with them. And I want, I want to actually write the story that has the lore with it. I don't even
know. It's a lot. It's, it's literally so much information. And I have Google docs upon Google
docs that just explain all of it. So I don't even know, man. It's crazy. Well, let's get into it. I
(26:57):
hope you're not too sick of it because we're going to retread it again in this episode, the recusance
motif.
(28:33):
On Instagram and earlier in this episode, you mentioned about your love and use of light motifs,
reoccurring ideas that show up in music. They're meant to represent ideas and sometimes people or
(28:56):
characters. And on Instagram, you describe this album and starting with this track, the recusance
motif, you describe this whole project as a light motif fest. Can you describe that a bit and talk
a bit about this first track, the recusance motif? Yeah, of course. So the recusance motif was
(29:19):
originally titled surrender and sleep. And it was written in 2019 right before I was about to start
my undergraduate program. It belonged to another project that was related to a story that I'm no
longer working on. It's kind of dead and buried. And I just have this like 17 song collection
(29:39):
sitting on my computer. And I kind of forgot about it until I rediscovered it this past year, 2024.
And I was kind of having difficulty getting ideas for new music. And I found this piece and I
figured that since, you know, I'm not really doing anything with it right now, what if I just pulled
(30:01):
all of like, well, not all of my melodic material, but what if I pulled a lot of melodic material
from this piece that I wrote in 2019 that's just kind of sitting there. So it's technically not
like a canon track to this world. This piece is on the album more so to just kind of give, I don't
(30:24):
even know how to explain it. It's like, it's like physical evidence to me that I have improved as a
composer because this piece was written in 2019. And the rest of the music on this album does pull
content from it. So it's just kind of interesting to see like where I was in 2019. And then, you
know, be immediately slapped in the face with music that I wrote recently. It's a really cool
(30:48):
development, I feel like. But yeah, it's just, that's just kind of the material that I used
for this album. It really has nothing to do with the lore. So
CB There enough. And certainly the next track does. Now, the second track on the album is titled
(31:08):
Prelude and in parentheses, the vision.
(32:38):
Now, I know very well what this is about. And of course, you do as well. But before you get into
(33:04):
the mechanics of the track, can you tell us a bit about the story? And now we're going to have to
get into a little bit of detail about the lore background of the Firebird saga with the vision.
So if you could do the honors with that.
Kite Perfect. Okay, so the vision refers to like a little premonition that Lucifer has after he is, well, it's a premonition he has, and it's in reference to, you know, what the angels are doing with all these souls. I'm not going to really get into all the nitty gritty, because we already spoke about lore in the last episode.
(33:48):
All you really need to know is that he sees something terrible and this terrible vision, it encourages him to defect from the order of the archangels who he had originally pledged his allegiance to. And in a sense, this piece is, you know, it's a vision in both like the narrative sense, but also in the literal sense, because it like it foreshadows every single piece on the album, every single piece.
(34:19):
I'm trying to find the right word for it. It has fragments of the other tracks. So it is a musical premonition, so to speak. But yeah, that's, I can literally get into like the nitty gritty, but I'm not even gonna I'm not even gonna do that. It'll take me forever to describe as
(34:40):
you know, sure. Yes. I mean, it would take me forever to it's not necessarily simple. But, you know, I remember half a year ago when we did talk about it. Lucifer's vision, this premonition was horrifying to him. But it was not spoken. What was in the vision purposely ambiguous for a later telling. And I remember in the episode was pretty funny. You said, you actually really didn't know what he saw yet.
(35:10):
You don't have to say it yet. But do you know what he saw? No, no.
And honestly, maybe it's not for me to know. Maybe I'm just as in the dark as everyone else. You know, I feel like sometimes it's best to leave things unanswered because I know with me and media, sometimes I like to project like my own thoughts and ideas onto unanswered questions.
(35:39):
And right now I don't think the actual contents of the vision are necessarily like super important to the plot. It's more so like what he does after seeing this vision like the actions that he takes. That's important. So I might come up with, you know, what was actually seen in the vision later. But as for now, I just don't think that's for me to know quite yet. Even though I'm literally the creator, and I'm making this stuff up.
(36:06):
Sure. And now on to the third track, the one after it, titled The Order, which is in reference to the order of archangels who are going around stealing the souls of living things for themselves. The one the order being the group that Lucifer was a part of and after his premonition, the vision of the previous track is no longer part of.
(37:36):
What can you talk about the order track?
Sure. So I had really mixed feelings about the order when I first wrote it. I honestly wasn't in the mood to compose anything. But it was one of those times where I was like, I'm a composer, like I have to sit down and I have to put, you know, I have to put my head into it and I just have to do it. So it was definitely an exercise in working through a creative block, but also not half assing the piece. And, you know, because sometimes when you're not in the mood to do something, you'll get lazy about it. So I feel like that's kind of the way it is.
(38:20):
I feel like it was a really good exercise. But I am actually really happy with how it turned out. It accomplished what I needed it to, which was serving as a theme for the order of archangels. The way I want them to appear in the story is kind of like actual biblical angels, because I think we also discussed before how, you know, sometimes in media, they're kind of portrayed as like these benevolent creatures.
(38:49):
But there are some portrayals of angels that are like horrific. And that's the kind of angel that I wish to portray. It kind of hits on some of like that Lovecraftian horror type genre for me, which I really love. It's honestly inspired a lot of this lore in this story of just being in the presence of an entity that is so powerful and so all consuming that you cannot process it and your mind shatters.
(39:19):
So that's kind of what I wanted to portray with the order.
Yeah, you know, it's actually I was thinking about this the previous month around, you know, Christmas time, you know, going to church and hearing the the Christmas story again this year. And the part where I think it's the angel Gabriel in the Bible, not your angel Gabriel appears before Joseph. And the first thing he says is don't be afraid.
(39:50):
If you look at really old art, it's specifically old pre enlightenment artwork of biblical angels, and they are terrifying. So I think when you say that I think about, you know, the artwork of the angel visiting Joseph for the Christmas story. What if it was more like one of your angels than the typically seen, you know, Sistine Chapel sort of artwork.
(40:18):
So very fascinating play on biblical works. So next is the recusant's curse, which is the scourge put upon the angels who sided with Lucifer and who disobeyed this order of let's face it, evil angels.
(40:48):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
(41:28):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
(41:58):
Mm hmm.
And the recusant's curse it's in the namesake of the album as well the recusant's dream. What can you tell us about the recusant's curse. The recusant's curse was actually my favorite piece to write, and I think it's because it's actually just a reimagined version of surrender and sleep, which I wrote in 2019, which was recusant's motive the first track of the album.
(42:40):
And I think it really shows like just how much I've improved as an artist. I mean, contextually, it's like the most important track in the entire album.
Just because of like what it represents in terms of the actual narrative and the lore, but to me personally, it's very important. It's like physical evidence that I have grown as a composer. Sure, sure.
(43:11):
And so let's let's get a little lore like for a second. So the recusant's curse is like in the lore is, if I were to compare it because I know you draw like inspiration is like the dark sign or humanity from Dark Souls put upon humankind and it's like a decaying disease that completely debilitates someone.
(43:40):
Now, can you describe it a little bit more than that? I know the affliction is on angels, or does it get transferred to other people? It gets put on the demons too, right?
So the curse gets put on the angels and when an angel is cursed, that's when they become a demon. That's what marks a demon as a demon. It's kind of like how in Dark Souls, like if you have the dark sign, like you're that's what you are, you're undead, whatever.
(44:11):
So it's kind of like a marker. If you have it, that's what you are. But the next track, the Morning Star Always Falls, is actually I think that one is about the aftermath of when one succumbs to the curse. So the curse is it's a consumption type curse.
(44:33):
A demon has to constantly feed off of human souls to satiate the curse or else they will essentially go hollow, which a little Dark Souls reference. But the way I describe it is that you essentially become like a husk of your former self. And it's like a fate worse than death type thing.
(44:57):
Very Dark Souls. Yeah, I haven't really fleshed out exactly what happens just because I want to... I don't even know how to describe it. I'm like getting off track again. But that's another thing I still have to flesh out a little bit more. All I know is that it's kind of similar to the Dark Souls.
Like you, the more you die type thing, like the more hollow you get, it's a consumption. Sure. Sure. And let's talk about that next track that you just brought up titled Morning Star.
(45:45):
Morning Star
(46:15):
Morning Star
(46:39):
And as you describe in your promotional material, it is the ultimate demise of Lucifer. He summons up the people who agree with him, his underlings of angels who follow him to fight against the order. And it goes very poorly, very quickly. It's not even close.
Lucifer fails along with his colleagues. That's a weird word to use for this. But and he is the first person to be afflicted by the recusance curse and dies from it. He well, but he's not fully dead. I remember you saying that.
(47:20):
Or he might be not fully dead because everything's cyclical. Okay, whatever. So he's dead. He's dead for the most part. And can you talk a bit about this track? But then I also have a follow up question about something you said in your promotional material about it. But what can you tell us about Morning Star?
(47:41):
Okay, so this track is supposed to be oppressive. I wanted it to represent a kind of like hopelessness with the current situation because it very much is about like Lucifer's demise and him succumbing to the recusance curse and kind of just, you know, all is lost type vibe.
(48:05):
And actually, interestingly enough, a lot of people who have listened to the album have cited this piece as their favorite. And that was like really surprising to me because I would have imagined it would have been like the vision or the recusance strife.
Like, it was just surprising to me and I want to know why this one was their favorite. Yeah, I mean, that's just that's what I can think of off the top of my head about this piece. I mean, just creating that vibe of oppression, I feel the vibe of oppression.
(48:38):
Nice.
Very nice. And so my follow up is in your promotional materials, you say that Lucifer said something to his firstborn, which then becomes a rallying cry or motivation to continue the fight against the order.
(49:02):
And you say specifically that it is not known what he said. I'm sure that's a it's an opportunity later on in your story. But do you know what he said?
I'm going to say what I said earlier.
That is not for me to know right now.
(49:23):
I feel like that's okay. Honestly, I'm on the fence right now. I don't know if it's going to be something like super important like game changing like only the firstborn of Lucifer knows this and it could potentially like, you know,
change it or like, you know, switch tables, whatever. Or if it was something like really sentimental and dumb because he's like talking to his firstborn son and his like last hour, you know what I'm saying? Like it could have been something really important or it could have not have been something important.
(49:53):
I think that's another instance of not people, but I guess in this case, demons like reacting to something in a certain way. I don't even know. Cut that last bit. I started like, I don't even know. I'm dude, this is so difficult here at my parents house. I keep getting distracted.
It's okay. And you know, not to throw it in your face. I had a feeling that the answer was that you didn't quite know yet. But I just I just wanted to ask because that's the sort of thing where it's like, you read that and you're like, oh, that's going to be important at some point down the line that might be yours.
(50:32):
I think it would be super funny though if we did eventually find out what it was and it was something like dumb, you know, like you spend all this time like, oh, what he said had to have been so important, like game changing. And then it's just like, I don't know. I love you son, something like that.
(50:54):
That would be disappointing depending on how you handle that. And so the fallout from the fall or disappearance, however you want to say of Lucifer, Lucifer, not Lucifer, and the beginning of what is known as the infernal war between demons and angels and infighting.
(51:16):
And that's where the modern day quote unquote of your narrative comes in. And that's also where the name of the infernal suite, the other album comes from the infernal war. The Recusance Strife, the second to last track in the album is an application of the motifs that you've talked about before.
(51:37):
And you describe it as a battle setting of such motifs representing the infernal war, the war that takes place between angels and demons after the fall of Lucifer and what leads to the modern setting of the Firebird Saga.
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