Attachment Styles Explained w/ Paige Bond, LMFT & Couples Therapist

It’s the one-year anniversary of Therapy Roulette! Michele (@michelebacicomedy) shares that she’s found not only a new therapist, but also a new doctor! This week’s guest is couples therapist, Paige Bond, LMFT. She explains the power behind the WAIT acronym, different attachment styles, and how her work as a therapist influences her relationship. She tells us about her ADHD diagnosis as an adult and how she manages it. Paige also shares her interest in killer whales and gives relationship advice.
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Follow Michele Baci!

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Follow Paige Bond!

Listen to the Stubborn Love podcast! https://www.paigebond.com/podcast

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Website: https://www.paigebond.com/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CouplesCounselingCFL/
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Episode Transcript

Theme Song (00:05):
Therapy Roulette Consent to Vent / Trauma
disguised as comedy / TherapyRoulette: Consent to Vent / If
you dont have problems, thenyoure likely repressing sh*t
and you should find a therapist/ (Whos not me)

Michele Baci (00:20):
Hey Rouletters.
Welcome back to another episodeof Therapy Roulette, where I
give you a consent to vent. Myname is Michele Baci. I am your
host. And I want to thank you somuch for being here and
listening. Because it's been ayear of Therapy Roulette, it's
been one damn year we've hit ananniversary, and oh my god, pop
those bottles of champagne setoff the fireworks only today

(00:44):
because fireworks bug the hellout of me, they go off all the
time lately. But because we'recelebrating, happy one year,
you, me and your headphones,it's just us, guys. It's there's
no one else here. I'm so proud.
I made it this far. I had a goalwhen I started Therapy Roulette

(01:04):
just to stick with it. And makeit consistent. Because everyone
says if you're gonna do apodcast, you have to be
consistent, otherwise it willfail or you'll lose momentum. Or
you'll just stop recording andthey're right. Do you have to be
consistent? I mean, if you don'thave a goal, if you don't have a
deadline, why are you puttingout a podcast? Right? It's been

(01:25):
hard. It's been Rocky. I thinkwe are gonna call it season one
at some point. But I still havesome more episodes to release.
So season one still going I'lllet you know when we're taking a
break and what the plans are forseason two. So I'm not leaving
yet. Don't worry. And I want tosay thank you to my friend
Kelly, who was on the firstepisode of Therapy Roulette,

(01:48):
couldn't have done it without awilling guests. I want to say
thank you to Joseph who has putup with all of my technical
questions and productionassistance. He's been great. I
don't know if I could turn onthe camera without him. And I
want to say thank you todenisha, my former producer and
good friend who helped me withsocial media and motivation. And

(02:11):
Laura, my sister who helps withsocial media and assistant work
and honestly, I cannot do thisif people didn't believe in it
at tell me to keep making thething. So thank you so much. Ah,
we'll have to celebrate for realin real life. I'll hold myself
to that I'll celebrate fory'all. Buy some pumpkin beer. So

(02:35):
since we've had a year, I haveto ask, can you please donate to
the podcast becauseI've run out of money and I just
need a caffeine budget like someyerba Mates for production I'm
asking on Kofi, Kofi? Kofi, it'scalled Ko-fi dot com. You can go
to KO-FI.com slash TherapyRoulette. It's in my link tree.

(03:01):
It's in the show notes KO dashFI dot com slash Therapy
Roulette. And there you candonate any amount of money
toward the podcast. It reallywill go toward the caffeine
budget because I recorded thisepisode with a yerba mata in my
hand, and I think I think I wasmore with it and a little more
peppy. So honestly, give me moreyear because if I have excess

(03:25):
funds, if suddenly everyone wholistens donates, then I'll put
it toward my therapy sessionsbecause this girl is starting
therapy again. When will shestop? When will she find the
therapist? Who's the one? That'swhat we're on this journey to
find out. So I did talk to a newtherapist this week, and we had
a little consultation. I thinkshe's really cool. She says she

(03:50):
she tries to incorporate humor,and a little bit of dark humor
and dark jokes. And I said, Ohmy God, you are the one, let's
please consider this patientclient relationship or a doctor
patient relationship. So we'regoing to start sessions and see
if it's a good match. I told herif she has other therapists who

(04:12):
take my insurance to let me knowbecause I really am trying to
use that insurance to the bestof my ability. It's just so much
cheaper. So I think I'll startwith one therapist who seems
really cool. And then if thereare other therapists who take my
insurance, I'll do a few moreconsults and maybe work with a
different one. Long term. Idon't know I'm taking all doctor

(04:35):
referrals right now. So yeah,starting with a new therapist, I
actually have had a slew ofdoctor appointments this month,
and I'm just here to tell you,California for all the
negativity that California mayhave just because they've been
stuck here. In a pandemic. Ihave a little bit of negativity

(04:57):
with it, but for All of that. Ithas good doctors, I found a good
GP. I've never really clickedwith doctors before. I'm always
like afraid of them somethingabout the white coats. They're
pretentious, they know at all. Inever feel comfortable in a
doctor's office. So when I founda new general physician, didn't

(05:18):
expect to like her, but she wasthe nicest person in the world.
And she sat down and she talkedto me like human, and answered
all my questions. I came to thisgeneral physical with like, 10
questions, brimming withanxiety, like, I think I have
this, I think this is wrong withme. I'm losing my hearing, what

(05:38):
do I do and she was socompassionate and listened to
everything and gave me somesolid advice. Like, what I've
already gleamed from theinternet, but a little bit more.
And also, she's a real doctor.
So I don't know there are gooddoctors out there. You just have
to be patient and take the timeto find them. Like I've been

(05:59):
internet searching. doctors whotake my insurance. For months, I
think it was my summer project.
And when I found this physician,I called her office in August,
and they didn't have a month.
They had like no appointmentsfor the next month or two
months. I had to wait. And I waslike, You know what, it's worth

(06:20):
it. This person has goodreviews. And you guys it was so
worth it. Sometimes it's worthit to wait, if you can push that
appointment out a little bitfurther, or just talk to all the
damn doctors if you have goodinsurance. You know, you don't
even have to pay a copay formost of these general checkups.
So that's amazing. Go see yourdoctor, go find the therapist.

(06:41):
Go donate to Therapy, Roulette,Kofi. I like how it's pronounced
kayo dash phi.com slash TherapyRoulette. I saw it on a artists
website and the artist is askingfor donations and it's so cute.
Like they have a little coffeeemoji and honestly, if you feel
like the being generous, and buyme a cup of coffee, or give me a

(07:05):
few bucks toward therapy, I willtake it I've been having a rough
time. It's been a rough 2021it's really thrones 2024 I don't
even know it's it's trying torival it for sure. I don't know
we're getting better though. Ihope so.
This week. Oh, can you reviewthe podcast to can you leave me

(07:27):
a really nice review on Applepodcasts. That'd be awesome.
That way some new strangers canfind Therapy Roulette and I can
keep putting out this cool show.
This week's guest is Paige bond.
She is an LMFT. Based inFlorida. We have a Florida girl
on she is a specialist incouples therapy. And she is the

(07:51):
host of the podcast StubbornLove. I'm excited to welcome
Paige Bond!

Theme Song (07:56):
guest interview / a friend for you / strangers whose
issues are relatable / guestinterview / They're the voice
that's new / this person hasproblems and they don't mind
discussing it, but they stillneed a therapist / (Whos not me)

Michele Baci (08:10):
That was perfect.
Right together

Paige Bond (08:12):
I tried.

Michele Baci (08:13):
Yeah. Welcome to the Therapy Roulette podcast.
I'm here with Paige bond. She isa licensed Marriage and Family
Therapist. Luckily I have theacronym looking at me so I can
get all those titles. Right,Paige? Welcome.

Paige Bond (08:28):
Thank you. I'm super excited to be here. Talk about
couples therapy, relationships,all kinds of stuff today.

Michele Baci (08:34):
Yes, please. I am in a relationship. I tried
couples therapy. I just likehere for free advice.

Paige Bond (08:40):
Yep.
Not all couples therapists arecreated equal.

Michele Baci (08:46):
I can imagine as as I like delve into different
therapists and try new thingsand like everyone is totally
different.

Paige Bond (08:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's so crazy because in I'm kind of
biased because a lot of myfriends are therapists. So it's
weird how I how I know them andhow each of them can interact
with their clients where there'slike this. I don't know
phenomenon where growing up Ithought a therapist was like all
this professional person wholike wears cardigans all the

(09:17):
time and wears the glasses andjust as taken notes, but it's
not like that at all. Like, I'mactually having a conversation
like you and I are doing rightnow. And that's what therapy is
like. And for me, like as bothclient and us therapist, which I
love.

Michele Baci (09:32):
Yeah, my luckily my podcast is therapy oriented.
So I feel like I have like thesemini therapy type conversations
all the time, which is kind ofkind of getting the spoils, but
I also am so grateful. Yeah,lots of free therapy, then yeah,
at least it's like in that realmwhere you're talking about the
same topics. It's definitelydefinitely not a replacement for

(09:54):
therapy, but it's like a bandaid.

Paige Bond (09:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's good little snippets here
and there that people can takeand use to like, even if it's
just a small application of Oh,maybe don't say that phrase
anymore to my partner, like itcan make the biggest difference
in your relationship.

Michele Baci (10:12):
Yeah, just to take some wisdom and try to apply it.
Mm hmm. How long have you beenpracticing?

Paige Bond (10:19):
So as a therapist, I've been practicing for a
little over four years, I'vebeen specializing in couples,
particularly for the past threeyears. And being in private
practice. I've only been inprivate practice about two
years. So I've kind of had ajourney. Once you graduate grad
schools, you have to you know,get all your hours, make sure

(10:41):
you're supervised and makingsure you're not screwing up any
of your clients lives. So you'rewhat we call in Florida of
registered intern, which meansyou're just pre licensed for a
couple years until you get allyour hours under supervision. So
during that time, I had a lot ofdifferent jobs before I even got
to private practice. I was likea school counselor at like a

(11:03):
middle school for runningsubstance abuse groups for all
the kiddos there at a middleschool. At a middle school.
Yeah, I mean, cuz I mean, kidsare trying drugs these days. And
so that's they need, they needthe therapy a lot. Yeah. But I
don't like working with kids. SoI see that job. I was like, Bye,

(11:24):
guys. You know, someone elsewill better be able to help you
which they found a greatreplacement therapist, but so
after that, then I did what'scalled a methadone clinic. Have
you ever heard of that? or knowwhat that is?

Michele Baci (11:38):
I think I have lived near them before in in
Long Beach, California. So Idon't have direct experience. I
think I've walked past them.

Paige Bond (11:47):
Yes, most likely. I mean, they're kind of everywhere
now. So it's kind of like the,the like better of all of the
evils out there. So it's like anopioid blocker treatment
methadone is and so I workedthere for a little while, which
was crazy, because the hourswere 5am to 1pm.

Michele Baci (12:06):
Yeah, I've heard that. I've heard like some of
these addiction base places.
It's like crack of dawn. We'regonna house.

Paige Bond (12:14):
Yes, I mean, and you either see them out there all
night, because there's a lot ofhomelessness, or people get
there really early because theystart like 5am or 6am jobs. So
like, they have to go to theirjob, but I'm already there for
my job. It's, it's crazy.

Michele Baci (12:30):
So it is it it?
Did you just say it's a 24 hourcycle of people working?

Paige Bond (12:35):
Um, no, like, it's not 24 seven therapy, I think
the the last dosage for peopleto come in and get therapy and
get their medication was like at7pm. So if they were like,
overnight people, or if theywere like vampires, basically,
like, that'd be really hard forthem to get their medication,
because we're only open duringthe daytime.

Michele Baci (12:57):
Yeah, so it's not somewhere where people like live
and no, not

Paige Bond (13:01):
at that one. But I did work at a residential
treatment center center rightafter that. So they live there
for anywhere between like sevenand 30 days where they detox off
of their preferred substance orsubstances. And they're, they're
just living there. And we areliving in their world and doing
lots of group therapy intensiveone on one therapy, all kinds of

(13:24):
stuff.

Michele Baci (13:24):
So that sounds like really throwing you in the
wringer right out of we're evendealt with grad school when he
started working with the middleschoolers.

Paige Bond (13:33):
Um, I was done with grad school. That was my first
job. And then I went to themethadone, and then I went to
the residential living facility.
And

Michele Baci (13:41):
it sounds like mental challenge after
challenge. Yes,

Paige Bond (13:45):
I would say that because a big thing for me is I
don't like substance abusepopulations. Like that's not my
preferred population to workwith. I don't get excited with
that type of clientele. And Iwas doing that for like, a year
and a half until I started goinginto private practice, which I

(14:07):
get to focus on relationshipsnow, which is great. But for so
long, I was not doing what Iloved.

Michele Baci (14:12):
That's hard. How did you motivate yourself to
keep going because a year and ahalf is not nothing?

Paige Bond (14:19):
Yeah, um, I knew that there was an end in sight,
I knew that I would be able toeventually get licensed. And you
know, it's kind of like the holygrail getting licensed. Because
you have much more freedom totake clients to take insurances,
all of that, like there's somany opportunities that are

(14:40):
missed being pre licensed. Soeven in job opportunities,
you're paid much, much less as apre licensed person than a
licensed so I knew the end wasin sight. Like I knew it was
only temporary. So just knowingthat got me through it, but then
like all these big dream goalsthat I have that I'm now
achieving I also got me throughit too.

Michele Baci (15:01):
That's good. And to get the license, is it just
the hours you're putting in?
Like, you have to accumulate somany hours?

Paige Bond (15:08):
Yeah, yeah. So you accumulate 1500
hours?

Michele Baci (15:13):
Wow, so many.

Paige Bond (15:15):
It is it's like on average, I'm pretty sure don't
quote me because I, I don't domath. And that's why I became a
therapist. That's fair. It'slike, I know, it's so hard. So I
think it's 1500 hours over twoyears. And then you have to get
100 supervision hours withwhoever supervising you making

(15:36):
sure that you're not screwing upyour clients. So it's a long
process. I I've loved being anintern, I got a lot out of
having my supervisor, noteverybody gets a really great
supervisor, because they startout at the places like agencies,
and the supervisors don't reallywant to supervise them, but I
actually paid mine. And I gotgreat supervision. So it's

(15:59):
really different out there.
Everybody has a differentexperience being pre licensed.

Michele Baci (16:04):
I didn't know the extent of how rigorous it is. So
props to you for getting throughsome hurdles now. Getting a job
you love.

Paige Bond (16:14):
Yes, I'm happy now.
Yeah, it's, it's actually So youmentioned you're in Long Beach,
California, Florida. And I thinkmaybe New York or Virginia,
those are like some of the morerigorous places to get licensed.
Like they require extra classes,extra hours extra, like
everything. So once you getlicensed in one of the harder
places, it's much easier totransplant. Like if you had to

(16:36):
go to a different state, youmean, okay. Yeah.

Michele Baci (16:42):
Do you plan to stay in Florida probably for for
now.

Paige Bond (16:46):
For now, at least. I mean, in the future, I would I
would love to kind of either goback and forth to different
states or do teletherapy for adifferent state. So for right
now, just Florida, but I think Iwill add more states to my
arsenal soon.

Michele Baci (17:01):
Yeah, it sounds like you're, you're not being
super challenged currently. Soyou're like, what else? What
other goals? Can I add?

Paige Bond (17:08):
Yes, yes, I keep on I make this a comment.
Like in the past month, I keepsaying, I'm going to build my
empire because I feel so goodright now with where my business
is going. And it's much moredeveloped than I ever thought it
would be. And so, if it'salready devolved, when I didn't
even think I could get here. I'mlike, Oh, my empire will be

(17:30):
bigger soon. So yeah, that'sawesome.

Michele Baci (17:35):
That's a great outlook. Yeah. And that's so
important to like, once you seeyou're hitting success, like how
do I reset and set a new goal?

Paige Bond (17:45):
Exactly, exactly.
Hopefully, eventually, I'll belike, no more goals. Let me just
chill. Yeah, but I likeachieving goals. So right now
I'm doing that.

Michele Baci (17:54):
Yeah, I struggle with that to where I'm like, I
am so ready to chill. Pleasegive me a break. Like I'm
planning a break from thepodcast sometime in the future.
But I also want to plan goalsfor after the chill time. So
everything's always juggling.

Paige Bond (18:09):
Yeah, I know. It's, it's really tough. Because, I
mean, eventually you kind of getbored when like, there's no goal
to achieve like Florida is thepoint if you're not like
striving for something. So Imean, I like it. I've always
been a determined to kind ofperson. That's good. Mhm.

Michele Baci (18:26):
yeah. For me, I know I I'll just do some I'll be
doing something. So I might aswell, mindfully think of what I
actually want to do.

Paige Bond (18:35):
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.

Michele Baci (18:36):
Yeah, rather than pursue someone else's goals.

Paige Bond (18:41):
And you know what?
funny that you even say that,because that happens so often,
like not even just clients Imeet, but like people I talk to,
like either friends, family,whoever, are not living for
themselves like that. They'repursuing someone else's goal,
someone else's dreams, andthey're unhappy, and they're
wondering why they're unhappy.

(19:02):
And like, I'm sitting herewaiting to tell them like, and
shake them. Like, guys wake uplive for yourself. But, you
know, doesn't always happen thatway.

Michele Baci (19:12):
They have to get there themselves, right? They
have to come to their ownconclusion.

Paige Bond (19:15):
Mm hmm. And that's the thing in therapy too, is,
you know, I don't just unlessthey outright ask me for an
answer. I don't lead them to theanswer. I asked like leading
questions or explorationquestions, but if they don't
automatically get an answer fromme on what they should do, or
you know how to get there. I'mlike, Okay, what steps can you

(19:38):
think of? Because I got like,tons in my mind that I could
give you but that's not thepoint of therapy.

Michele Baci (19:44):
Yeah, that must be so hard to like, restrain
yourself from saying all of it

Paige Bond (19:49):
It is, but there's a really cool acronym that I
learned for being a therapist,it's called wait. And when as a
therapist, you have troublelike, talk talking too much you
need to use Wait, why am Italking? And really like
process? Okay, am I talking formy benefit or the clients
benefit? Which can be reallyhard with an ADHD brain as a

(20:14):
therapist because you love tointerrupt people and you love to
talk. So I struggle with that alot of putting the kibosh on
myself.

Michele Baci (20:25):
I like that acronym. Why am I talking? I
think that could be useful ineveryday life, like social
situations, you're catching upwith someone, just let them let
them spill for a bit before youintervene.

Paige Bond (20:38):
Yeah, and like a lot of times when people are
spilling like that, it's notlike they're looking for advice
or anything. They're justupdating you and wanting you to
know what's going on. So yeah,

Michele Baci (20:48):
they're almost never looking for advice. Like
they I feel like point blankhave to say, what should I do?
That's, that's your cue when yougive the advice?

Paige Bond (20:56):
Yes, yes. That's like one of the number one
things I tell my couples,because there's so many times or
one of the partners is like,just listen to me, I want you to
understand, and they don't getit because they're like this,
you know, person who fixeseverything likes to have
resolutions. And that's notexactly what the other partners

(21:16):
looking for. So it's tough.

Michele Baci (21:18):
Yeah, I definitely struggle with that with my
boyfriend too, because he'svery, like, solution oriented.
And I'm like, Well, I have toomany solutions. Right now. I
just need to talk it out.

Paige Bond (21:30):
Exactly. Yeah. And the thing I like about it, like
there's this specific exercise Iuse, it's called like stress
reducing conversation. So thetwo of like, the two people who
are talking can have aconversation and feel understood
and feel like their partner isenthusiastic and actually
interested in them. And thenthere's the specific part where

(21:51):
it says, okay, would you likeadvice? Or would you like me to
just listen? And and then that'swhen the the person who's
speaking can kind of tell themlike, no, you're good. Just
listening like this? Yeah. Idon't need any of your opinions
here. Keep them over there.

Michele Baci (22:05):
these are these are great tactics and taking
mental notes. Yes. Good. So as acouples therapist, are you
practicing a certain teaching oftherapy? Or how does it work?

Paige Bond (22:17):
I'm like a mixture.
I wouldn't say like I'm focusedin on one exact thing. I've been
trained in the Gottman method. Idon't know if you're familiar
with that at all. Of course, Ilearned about it in couples
therapy. Beautiful. Yes. See,it's so common, one of the most
common types of couples therapyjust because there's so much
evidence for just all the goodeasy to use tools for couples to
grasp. And so I mainly practiceGottman method. However,

(22:40):
sometimes I find that it can bea little surface level of like,
here's, you know, these thesethings that you can learn things
that you can say, but it's notreally getting to the root or to
the meaning. And so I alsoincorporate something called
emotion focus therapy. Have youheard of that one? Not? Not
really. No, it's fantastic. Soit's based on one of my favorite

(23:05):
things of like the attachmentmodel. So if you've heard of
different types of attachmentstyles, like anxious attachment,
avoidant attachment, and thensecure attachment, which is a
really good one that we allstrive for the EFT models based
on that. And so this is where weget clients to really dig deep
down into their emotions and bereally vulnerable, which they

(23:27):
basically never are in theirrelationship and why they're
seeing me and it's just amazingwhen you get them to actually
voice their emotion. And thatmust be Yeah, that must be cool
to see the breakthrough processof like we're getting there,
we're getting to thevulnerability Hmm, I'll have
them all kind of like a like,pull it out of them a little

(23:50):
bit. And then I'll see them tearup or something. And then I'll
say, Can you turn towards yourpartner and say that to them,
and then sometimes they can'tbecause it's too hard, because
or too much vulnerability,they'll crack open. But
sometimes they'll actually doit. And they'll turn to their
partner and they'll say, youknow, how they've been hurt or

(24:11):
how they really want to be lovedor how they want to feel
desired. And then the otherpartner will be listening and be
like, having this mind blowingexperience of Whoa, I didn't
know it was that bad. Like, Ineed to do something so it's
it's really great.

Michele Baci (24:28):
Yeah, I had some kind of experience like that
myself. And it was definitelylike, changing the whole vibe in
the room. Were like everythingis now different in the session.

Paige Bond (24:40):
Yes, yes. Those are amazing. I love when that
happens.

Michele Baci (24:44):
Yeah, and it's different when you cry in
therapy. I'm not like I've onlyin my real life began to cry
more in life and then intherapy, I hardly ever shed
tears. So it's, it's totallydifferent. If that like happens.
I'm like, wow, this is this is amonumental day.

Paige Bond (25:00):
Yeah, that's that's really a serious I'm a crier in
regular life. And when I go totherapy, it's not that I try not
to cry. But there's definitelybeen some times where I'm like,
Oh, I kind of don't want to gothere. But then I'm just like a
blubbering whale at times. Andmy, my therapist just like,
pulls it out of me, you know,and I like it. It's a cathartic

(25:23):
experience to be able to crylike that.

Michele Baci (25:26):
Yeah, it definitely is cathartic because
you you feel empty and I alsoget exhausted and I'm just like,
this is knocked out the day.

Paige Bond (25:35):
Oh, it's like naptime after a good crisis.

Michele Baci (25:38):
Yeah, for sure. Do you find you integrate coupling
your couples therapy work withyour own personal life? Do you
like integrate that into yourdaily life at all?

Paige Bond (25:50):
That's a very hard question and a very tricky
question. So how I integrate itnow is much different than when
I was not so it's two parter No,I used to not do it as well but
now I'm finding I am likestarted to more naturally do
that. So a lot of the tacticswith especially it tends to

(26:16):
happen and I hate to have agender bias but it tends to
happen with females and arelationship and it had a
relationship that I'm workingwith where they feel extra
sensitive and and any commentthat their partner says to them,
you know, just get something tocry up or makes him feel
worthless or whatever. And I hadfelt that way a lot in my

(26:37):
relationship which was weirdbecause I've never felt that way
before and I didn't thinkhorribly of my partner and so we
used to get in like quite a fewarguments like back in the day
and now it's like totally turnedaround like he and I have had
some couple sessions too andI've done my own individual

(26:57):
therapy, love my therapist shoutout to Jodi or anything if you
ever watch this um and just bylike, learning a little bit
about each other's kind of waysthat we grew up and the ways
that we were working from so soa lot of what EFT is how were

(27:17):
you working in reacting todifferent attachment figures
growing up so the way that we dothat in our childhood is the way
that we present that in ourcurrent relationships and both
of us for doing that and then wefinally realized it pointed out
the pattern and now we've comeup with different things to if
we're you know, getting into afight we know how to stop it we

(27:38):
know how to take a break and dowhatever to cool off we know how
to compromise a lot better andjust be a lot nicer I think a
lot of it is the the emotionaldeposits in our bank account you
know just doing those nicethings more often to create that
culture of positivity has helpedus like more than anything

(28:00):
because now I give him thebenefit of the doubt I don't
think he's trying to be meanhe's really trying to be funny
but it comes off as meansometimes because I'm sensitive
I get it so so now I give himthe benefit of the doubt and
don't think of him in this likehorrible light

Michele Baci (28:17):
yeah it's so it's so hard to get there without
couples therapy or individualtherapy because how else are you
supposed to know like thisperson is like this because of
this thing that happened in hischildhood and now he'll forever
like have this association likeyou have to dig that up

Paige Bond (28:37):
Yeah, yeah because otherwise we were just working
through the same thing overagain like every fight would
kind of you would be able if youcould like document it as an
observer you would be able to tobe like Yep, that's point a
ready for point B ready forpoint C it just like happened
the same way every time so oncewe started identifying our

(28:57):
cycles Oh, so much better. Yeah,and that's what I have couples
do now.

Michele Baci (29:02):
That's good because I feel like I've
definitely recognize thepatterns and I do take it less
personally now and like oh, thisis just this is like something
that is traumatic that mypartner's working through and to
me it's super annoying, but it'snot personal.

Paige Bond (29:18):
Yes, yes. Yeah. And so you just you know, take a
breath and I come from moresothe anxious attachment
standpoint so if I ever amfeeling unloved or unwanted or
whatever, you know, either Iapproach my partner and say,
like, Hey, are you feeling thatway at all because I'm feeling
this way because blah, blah,blah, and they'll he'll be like,
No, no, no, I love you, babe. Sothat clears that up. But if I

(29:42):
don't have that, like if he'salready asleep in bed, and then
my mind starts racing orwhatever, or maybe he's out
somewhere and I'm, you know,still at home without them. And
if I get those thoughts, Irevert back to the happy
pictures that I can rely on asproof to know My relationship is
secure the good text messagesthat I can see, I even have his

(30:05):
voicemails that I listened to. Ilove those because then I get to
hear his voice and hear him sayall those sweet things that I
know he truly does think aboutme. And I tell the same thing to
my clients to rely on. Okay,what are those things that you
can rely on that, you know willreassure you that the
relationships not in danger? Andso I practice that same thing

(30:26):
myself?

Michele Baci (30:27):
Yeah, that's those are good tips that's for anxious
attachment style, you think?

Paige Bond (30:31):
Yes, yeah, anxious attachment. So that attachment
style is more so about that theyare very scared that the
relationship is going to end.
And a lot of times what happensis they will start doing like
clingy behavior. So maybethey'll start texting you more,
calling you more, Hey, where areyou? They want to know your

(30:51):
location, they want to knoweverything. Who are you with?
Who's there? How long are yougoing to be there, everything.
And so with that fear thatthey're they're so desperate for
that connection. But a lot oftimes when someone's anxiously
working from that anxiouslyattached behavior that pushes
the other person away, and sothey start to distance

(31:11):
themselves and so the thing thatthe anxious person, they need to
recognize what they're doing,because that is pushing the
other person away. And so ifthey actually say, calm down or
look at their own behavior,they'll be able to have a better
conversation with the otherpartner.

Michele Baci (31:27):
Yeah, that's important to tell the anxious
attached person because thenlike the person on the receiving
end is probably so fed up andit's like I'm just in a movie
like stop calling me.

Paige Bond (31:38):
Yep, yep. Yeah, it's a it's mainly what I work with,
I see it a lot. Really, a lot oftimes it's with people like for
the anxious attachment. A lot oftimes it's with people who
didn't have a safe place growingup or who didn't have someone to
confide into who has really ahard time trusting other people

(32:00):
and so when they finally findthat person that they think they
trust and then there's like onelittle behavior that might push
that off the edge then theystart freaking out and they're
like Ah, oh my god, like therelationships gonna die. And
then the other person on theother side is like what are you
talking about relationships fineShut up. Like I'm so tired of
this. draining my energy. Yes,exactly. So you got to calm that

(32:24):
down because they're workingfrom a place of their worth is
based on someone else usuallybased on other outside
relationships to validate themand so with the anxious person
we have to work on getting thatinternal validation rather than
external

Michele Baci (32:38):
Yeah, it's like one of those instances where I
think social media is goodbecause I could open my
boyfriend's Instagram be likelook at all these nice pictures
of like him doing his own lifeand be with him and you know
Yeah, like a little library oflike no, he's a good person I
could I'm fine

Paige Bond (32:54):
huh there's good separateness and there's good
togetherness. Yeah.

Michele Baci (32:59):
What are you what are the other attachment styles
if you don't mind runningthrough them because I'm I know
there's avoidant, right.

Paige Bond (33:04):
Yes, yes. So there is avoidant and avoidant doesn't
necessarily mean like hey, Idon't want to be with you or
Hey, I hate relationships likeavoidance do like relationships.
They just usually tend to liketheir independence a lot of
times they were like thelatchkey kid always left alone
or maybe they were the older kidyou know running the household

(33:25):
but but didn't have a lot ofsupervision or whatever. So they
really liked that independenceThis is a

Michele Baci (33:31):
I'm the avoidant one

Paige Bond (33:33):
Ah, oh sure. We'll talk about that.

Michele Baci (33:36):
I feel like I do I don't like all the like 100%
togetherness I'm always likeWhen do I get to be alone?

Paige Bond (33:43):
Yeah, yeah. And you usually crave that that alone
time and that space away fromyour partner which is not
necessarily about that and likeI said, that does not mean you
don't love your partner or thatyou don't want to be in the
relationship it's just apreference Yeah,

Michele Baci (33:58):
it just like I need to feel like me and in
order to do that I need somealone time.

Paige Bond (34:03):
Yeah. where it gets really tricky with avoidant
attachment style is if we'reavoidant we don't like to share
we don't like to share emotionswe don't like to share what
we're thinking we don't like toshare like all kinds of stuff
because hey, it's mine Why do Ineed to tell you

Michele Baci (34:20):
Yeah, I'm very I tried to be very private
although like clearly that's notgoing great so I have a podcast
but yeah, for the most part theytry to keep some things inside
but also with my partner I'mlike super open with him and
have never shared so much sohe's cracked some he does love
me. Oh, your yoke is likeexploding I know it's very runny

(34:44):
It's awesome. That's good, buthe does get offended if I'm like
I need alone time. Like I thinkhe's better with it now but at
first Yeah, like why do you wantlike why are we dating if you
want to be alone, I'm like,right? Just sometimes it's nice.

Paige Bond (34:58):
Yeah, yeah. And in In a secure relationship, you
don't need to be on top of eachother all the time. And you
don't need to be apart all thetime. The good balance is you
can do both autonomousactivities and together
activities and so that's whenit's healthy. That's when you
know it's okay. For when it'sunhealthy with the avoidance,

(35:20):
you know, say, you know, yourpartner comes to you and he's
like, What? What do you mean?
Like, why are we even in arelationship? You know, I should
just end this now that would bespeaking like an anxious
attachment person.

Michele Baci (35:33):
Might be onto something. Yeah, exactly. Well,
a lot

Paige Bond (35:37):
of times with anxious people, we kind of like
make threats or whatever to seeif you care to like know, Oh,
okay. Do they really care aboutme? So we'll figure out a lot of
shit like that of like, Oh,yeah, you never even love me.
You don't care about me at all.
You don't know a lot of you. Youuse statements, which is not
good in relationships. Yeah.

Michele Baci (35:56):
And when I hear that they seem so ridiculous.
Like, what are you talkingabout?

Paige Bond (36:00):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
And it's not descriptive oflike, actual behavior. It's
their feeling, but not really anactual feeling. Because it's not
an emotion. Yeah, it's just whatthey're thinking is their
opinion, it's a judgment, whichjudgments, assumptions,
expectations, they don't belongin relationships. They do not
work in relationships at all.

Michele Baci (36:23):
Okay, you have to know like, realistically, like,
what's actually happening? What,what do we want to do next? You
can't just assume anything youget caught up in expectations,
you're usually disappointed.

Paige Bond (36:34):
Yes, exactly. I like to tell people with
expectations, if you have any,you already have premeditated
resentments. So it's gonna endup not being very happy with
your partner if you have theseexpectations. And that's
different if you talk aboutthem. But if you haven't,
without talking to your partner,then it's not going to end very

(36:55):
well. Yeah, you can haveunvoiced expectations. Right?
Right. Right. You can have anexpectation of, you know, I
expect to you know, come home toa loving, warm hug and kiss from
you. Because that makes me feelloved. That's a great way to set
an expectation, but you can'tsay, Well, I expect them to cook
me dinner every day. In my life.
I've hit the jackpot. And I'mnot even gonna let them know

(37:17):
that they've done that. Sothat's not

Michele Baci (37:21):
good. Yeah. And then also you you don't learn
how to cook and then your shadowluck someday.

Paige Bond (37:27):
Exactly. When the relationship ends, you're just
going to starve to death. Yeah,you're like, Where's the grocery
store? I

Michele Baci (37:32):
never bothered to learn. Exactly, that could be a
problem.

Paige Bond (37:36):
instacart microwave meals.

Michele Baci (37:40):
Cue sad music.
That's funny. And then what arethe other there's secure
attachment. That's the goal formost people.

Paige Bond (37:49):
Yep, secure attachments. So this is where
you can balance friendships oreven really good to have in the
secure attachment with avoidantand anxious friendships can kind
of be a little rocky, but yourfriendships are much more
attended to when we're feelingsecure. Because we have that
balance of okay I don't need tobe on top of my partner all the

(38:11):
time. So I can actually tend tothese other relationships with
friends with family withcolleagues with whoever so
you're balancing all thatinsecure attachment there is so
much more trust than the othertwo relationship styles so you
you can trust that you know yourpartner's going out to Starbucks
and you know that they're goingthere and you're not thinking

(38:32):
that they're going out cheatingon you. Yeah, can I attach to
that person? What Yeah,

Michele Baci (38:36):
that'd be quite the jump if you're like they've
been gone for 10 minutes Whatare they doing?

Paige Bond (38:41):
Yeah, exactly. We only need like three so

Michele Baci (38:45):
I definitely seen it and other people where I'm
like huh i mean you know there'sso many reasons why you might
feel that way so I get it butyeah, that partner going to
Starbucks it's a lot

Paige Bond (38:56):
right exactly.
Because they're kind of now inthis thing of Oh gosh, you know,
are they tracking my locationHow do I make sure that I have
proof that I'm here you know,just just figuring out all the
ways to make sure that they makethe other partner feel secure
but it's also hard just havingall that pressure to do because
usually they don't know what todo because the secure the

(39:18):
anxious person is not tellingthem what they need. So it's a
big ugly cycle but but someonewho would feel more secure would
would be able to trust Hey, youare going to Starbucks I know
you know you're not cheating onme I know that I trust you to be
you know, a gentle person that Iknow you to be with other people

(39:39):
and respectful and notdisrespect our relationship. So
trust is really big in thesecure healthy attachment style.

Michele Baci (39:48):
Okay. Are there any other ones any other
attachment styles?

Paige Bond (39:52):
There are Um, there's like all kinds of words
so anxious can kind of flip flopwith the name, anxious
preoccupied. avoidance can beavoidant and fearful. And then
there's kind of like this thirdattachment style that can be
characterized as disorganized orambivalent. Okay, this is where

(40:14):
we get a combination of bothanxious and avoidant.

Michele Baci (40:18):
Like a very, like confused, like not quite sure
how they're attaching.

Paige Bond (40:24):
Yes, exactly. So a good example could be, you know,
one minute when they're reallysad, or maybe yelling at their
partner, like, why don't youlove me, you know, come come
here and love me. I don't knowwhat they say. whatever they're
struggling with, and thenthey'll be like, no, don't touch
me, you know, I want to be awayfrom you. Like, I don't like

(40:46):
this, that they'll be veryconfusing mixed signal set of
messages to the other partner,because they're confused
themselves about what the heckthey want to do, because they do
want that closeness. But thenthey're like, Oh, don't get too
close. Because when people wereclose to me, when I was younger,
I was hurt. So you're onlyallowed to get, you know, 10
feet away. Yeah,

Michele Baci (41:06):
I see the mixed signals in that example, like, I
feel like that person doesn'tknow if they like the other
person, or they have to do theirown, like, mental journey to
figure out what's going on.

Paige Bond (41:17):
Yep. Yeah, it's, it's tough. And it's one of the
harder I think, attachmentstyles to work with, just
because you have thecombination. And it's like, one,
it's like, gosh, can you justpick one? But but to just it's
it's hard, because they're goingfrom both ends. So it's like,
how do we get you feeling secureand feeling close? When that's

(41:39):
too scary for you? But also haveyou not be clinging like saran
wrap to something that's, youknow, whatever, and actually
have Okay, being alone some ofthe time so, yeah,

Michele Baci (41:54):
yeah, it's tough.
So many people are unable to bealone. So I feel like that's a
common problem. And maybe it'sgotten better and the pandemic,
I have no idea. But I feel likea lot of people struggled in the
pandemic, because they werealone for maybe the first time
for like, a long period of time.

Paige Bond (42:14):
Hmm, I would agree with that, too, with people
finding like Oh, shit, thisloneliness is like, this is what
it's like not to see people forthis long or interact with
people for this long and oddDamn it. My depressions back
here we go again with this. Letme stay alone, because I don't
want to talk to anybody, becauseI don't want them to know how I

(42:35):
feel like it's a blast. So

Michele Baci (42:39):
that's true.
That's more. That's a betterstatement of what's going on.
Yeah, yeah. Like I'm lucky it'slike you live in Florida. I live
in California. So I've been outsomewhat I've been like in the
worlds here and there. And it'salways good weather, but I'm
lonely. It's been a lonely time.
like everything's different.

Paige Bond (43:00):
Yeah, I would it to speak to Florida's way that
they've been handling things isjust something that you can't
even speak about, because like,how can you find the words for
how crazy it has been, but weare doing better on numbers in
Florida that I've learned from afew local nurses and doctors. So

(43:23):
hopefully that means we're onthe up stretch of it. But
everybody here is is feeling isfeeling alone is feeling

Michele Baci (43:34):
disconnected?
Yeah, cuz How can you not ifeverything's drastically
different from what it used tobe?

Paige Bond (43:40):
Mm hmm. Yeah. And it's hard. A lot of times, I'll
be seeing a lot of clients whoare struggling with their
families, because their viewsare so different from their
families. And then how do Istill keep in contact?

Michele Baci (43:56):
My god, I can't even imagine your clientele in
Florida.

Paige Bond (44:00):
Let me tell you, you would be surprised the amount of
couples who were on the oppositeends of the spectrum for CDC
guidelines and for vaccines.

Michele Baci (44:10):
I'm not surprised because at Florida just a big
question mark state where it'skind of its own country. Yeah.
Yeah. It's so crazy. I can'timagine couples being like, why
can't you just wear a mask?

Paige Bond (44:24):
That's crazy. No, seriously? Yeah, I've had those.
Those are the harder sessions todo. Because I also still have to
struggle with making sure that Istay on bias and make sure that
both of them feel heard. Eventhough when I'm like blatantly
in my mind, come on, please getvaccinated. Let's all get
through this together.

Michele Baci (44:43):
Yeah, I feel like pretty strong in my own beliefs.
But then, even in my own littlecircle in my life, like I I get
a lot of opinions and I don'ttrust the government and blah,
blah, blah. I don't believe invaccines like I've heard that in
the past year and a half and I'mmore open to like, people have
all these different opinions ifyou have to, like, you can't

(45:05):
just cut them out and shut themdown, because that's gonna make
it worse.

Paige Bond (45:09):
Yeah, yeah. And they'll either be mad at you or
they won't like you anymore.
They'll cut you off. So you gotto find some middle ground
there.

Michele Baci (45:18):
Yeah, that must be so hard with the couples who are
battling, battling COVIDguidelines.

Paige Bond (45:25):
Yeah, it's tough.
But, um, I will say like, out ofout of most of the couples, I
would say, maybe only three outof the whole last year and a
half were really bad on theopposite ends of the COVID
spectrum. So three out of the, Idon't know, however many people
I've been seeing, but it's alot. Three out of a lot is not

(45:46):
so bad. Luckily. And maybe it'sbecause they wanted to find a
therapist who was outraged abouttheir views. And maybe they
found a therapist, according tothat. I don't preach what my
views are to people. So it's notsomething like that they can
know before they get to know me.

(46:07):
Yeah,

Michele Baci (46:08):
that's good. I feel like that's pretty good
statistic for for where you are?
Mm hmm. Yeah. Do you usuallyrecommend that the couples do
individual therapy? Or is itkind of like case by case? Oh,

Paige Bond (46:24):
most of the time, it is very rare, what we're I
haven't recommended individualtherapy. Um, because I would say
probably 90% of the people thatI see have past trauma, either
from another relationship orfrom childhood. And that's
affecting their couple hoodrelationship, which is

(46:48):
preventing us from makingprogress in regular couples
therapy, because they'rereacting from their trauma brain
and not the present brain ofwhat's really going on. So the
reactions are much more overreactive and exaggerated, which
makes it hard on the the partnerwho's witnessing that, because
they don't know what to do theynot know how to, you know, calm

(47:09):
their partner down or work withthem from the trauma response.
They think that it's reallyabout them when it's really
about the trauma and so thattaking it personally thing can
be a really big struggle. So,yes, individual therapy,
everybody needs it, I, I highlyrecommend it.

Michele Baci (47:24):
Do you think both people in the relationship have
to do it simultaneously? Or canthey like, Can it be like the
traumatic person can go and theother person can go eventually?
Like, do you think it has to besimultaneous?

Paige Bond (47:36):
I don't think it has to be I think it's like, it's up
to everybody. You know how theywant it? to do it. But I mean, I
recommend you might as well youknow, knock three birds out with
one stone. We're all in therapy.
Let's just get it all done now.
So you don't have to do itlater. Yeah, that's so sorry, at
the same time. Yeah, exactly.
But I don't think there's likeany certain process of like, No,
you go first. And then you gosecond, no, I, I just let them

(47:59):
because I will say more oftenthan not, but at times, they may
be resistant to going to theirown individual therapy. So we're
just kind of stuck working incouples therapy. And so
sometimes you don't even havethat luxury of them working on
their own stuff with their ownindividual therapist. And you're

(48:19):
kind of like as a couplestherapist, working in tandem,
playing both roles, tried to getthem worked on themselves in
couples therapy, while theirother partner is either
witnessing and watching what'sgoing on, or just learning about
their childhood even more to getmore understanding. So it's
tough sometimes.

Michele Baci (48:39):
Yeah, that must be hard when you're like, we
started this thing because youboth wanted to be here. But now
it's become, it's become aboutone of you. Yeah, it's very,
like very much like there's abigger focus, there's something
else to do.

Paige Bond (48:53):
Right? Exactly. It's really hard to move forward.
Let's say I'll take like asexual trauma, for example, it's
really hard to move forward withsexual trauma when in your
couple's relationship, you'refrustrated about your sex life.
And the one partner who had thattrauma isn't working through any
of that. And so it's like, Okay,well, how do we actually address

(49:16):
the couple's sex life when we'renot addressing this, which you
need to get better? Right. Sowhich is the first step? Yeah,
exactly. So there will be timeswhere I actually will kind of
step back and not recommendcouples therapy right away
because sometimes couplestherapy can be contra indicated.
And those are the times whenthey're in a very abusive

(49:39):
relationship. Like I won't seeactive domestic violence couples
at all, because it's not goingto be a safe place for anybody
there. It's only gonna be aplace where the the hurt partner
gets to be continuously abused.
And so I won't see couples whoare in active dv relationships
and I'll be like, hey, you goFigure out yourselves. And then

(50:00):
if you find that you can, youknow, pull it together and act
nice, then I'll be able to seeyou. So I recommend sometimes
individual therapy before theyeven come see me.

Michele Baci (50:15):
I can't imagine the domestic violence couples
seeking couples therapy doesthat happen?

Paige Bond (50:22):
It does. It does.
And, and at times, you know, Igot to fire them, at least
temporarily for them to gofigure out themselves. So what
could happen is like, I'm seeingthem and all of a sudden, maybe
a few sessions in they theyshare that, like they got in a
really bad fight. And maybesomeone slaps someone or shoved
someone really hard or, or even,you know, something else more

(50:43):
violent was happening. And I'mlike, Yeah, like, Hey, you got
just what they're sharing withyou. Yeah, exactly. It could be
a lot worse, right? So I have totrust my best instinct and say,
Okay, well, couples therapy isgoing to be very useful, because
we're going to be trying to workout, you know, repairing
something, but you guys need tofigure out your stuff and figure

(51:06):
out why you're accepting thisand why you're doing this first
before we can even actuallyaddress what happened. So that's
the that's the situation that Ijust try not to touch at all.

Michele Baci (51:20):
Yeah, that's good on you. It's kinda like, say no
to them and be like, No, youhave to go take this seriously
and figure out why you're

Paige Bond (51:28):
violent? No. Hmm.
And sometimes they don't comeback after that. Because either
one, they break up, usuallybecause they realized, okay,
this is not a healthyrelationship, which is great.
That's, that's fine. My cup. Myjob as couples therapist is not
to keep couples together, is tomake sure you have a healthy
relationship, whether that'sonly with yourself, or if it's
with, you know, you guystogether. That's great. But I'm

(51:48):
not here to keep you together,you know, on the last string, if
it's a violent relationship, so

Michele Baci (51:58):
no, I mean, that's probably not going to get much
better, huh?

Paige Bond (52:03):
No. So So those situations and situations when
people are narcissistic, or justany other type of toxic one up
one down behavior dynamic in arelationship, I don't see those
types of couples because it'sagain, not even going to be it's
not worth their time. It's notworth my time, because the

(52:26):
narcissistic partner doesn'tthink they're doing anything
wrong. So how could I possiblybe able to help them? Right?

Michele Baci (52:32):
Yeah. Do you? What do you recommend the same for
the narcissistic partner like,hey, go get your own therapy and
come back? Yeah.

Paige Bond (52:40):
Yeah. But do they ever do that? No, because
they're perfect.

Michele Baci (52:46):
Yeah, that's a tricky personality thing to
delve into the narcissism.

Paige Bond (52:51):
Yeah, yeah. I don't Um, there's some main things
that I don't work with, which isthe domestic violence,
narcissistic or otherpersonality type disorders, and
substance abuse. And like,there's other people, other
therapists out there that areloving that that's their
wheelhouse. Probably requires alot of expertise. And like

(53:14):
really intense training, youknow? Hmm, I like talking about
sex. I like talking about moneycommunication. Let's do like
those fun things. Not likepoints of power. Yes.

Michele Baci (53:29):
Yeah, I could see that. That's more interesting,
for sure. And erotic for you,hopefully.

Paige Bond (53:34):
Oh, gosh, aeons less traumatic.

Michele Baci (53:37):
You did that chin.
You said you had ADHD?

Paige Bond (53:41):
Yes, this was only a recent realization, though.
Okay. And after all, my manyyears of living. So I've now
been diagnosed as an adult. Thiswas a last year during the
pandemic, I finally gotevaluated. Because my partner
kept saying, like, I had memoryissues. And so I was like, well,

(54:04):
I need to go see aneuropsychologist, see what's
going on? Do I have a cognitiveimpairment? And well, turns out
my executive functioning is notgoing very well. And so I took
the evaluation and I ended uphaving a diagnosis of ADHD which
makes sense now that you know,we've put all the things

(54:26):
together of what my behavior wasdoing and why I can't ever
remember anything or why is thatgood conversation or I jumped
back on a conversation 10minutes later. So it's a it's
good to now know what's going onand myself or my partner will be
able to call things out like oh,okay, so let me stop mid

(54:47):
conversation and just remindthis real quick before I forget,
and then we'll jump back inbecause if not, the thought goes
away. ADHD mind doesn't like toremember things. Yeah, my
boyfriend has ADHD. So it's beenlike a challenge to communicate
and keep his calendar togetherand all that stuff where it's

(55:07):
like yeah, reminders and hismemories not good is like you
can't remember everything youthink like short term long term
is tricky. Um long term is alittle bit better but short term
like if we have conversationsI'm not really going to remember
anything unless I write it downand like put main points and

(55:30):
this is really hard likethinking that like I'm a
therapist I have ADHD What doyou mean you don't have good
memory? So it almost like islike oh, that's not a good
combination. But But that is abig thing is the the memory
sometimes I'll think aconversation is over just
because my mind is like Okay,oh, bah bah bah. And then my

(55:51):
boyfriend's like wait a secondwe weren't done talking. I was
like oh sorry. I thought it wasover like I was done in my mind
I've moved on to the next taskDo you also leave the scenes you
like go somewhere else? Yeah,yeah, I'll be talking in the
bathroom and there's that pauseand then my brain is like okay
done and then I'll go into thenext room and do

Michele Baci (56:10):
something that's very frustrating with me and my
boyfriend like he's always likemoving like he's always like
walking around he's in adifferent room I have no idea
where he went I'm like we werejust having the conversation

Paige Bond (56:24):
yes know that that's a symptom. And it's hard I now
understand his frustrationbecause he got frustrated a lot
with me for all these ADHDsymptoms and neither of us knew
why like we thought like that Ijust didn't care enough or that
I didn't like work hard enoughor something but no and there's

(56:45):
actually something you know myexecutive functioning is off um,
but I wasn't recommendedmedication at all I don't know
if your boyfriend takesmedication

Michele Baci (56:57):
does I think he has You don't seem too bad with
it he's like you know all overthe place yeah,

Paige Bond (57:04):
yeah. So So is he finding like are both of you
finding that's much moremanageable like being on
medication?

Michele Baci (57:10):
I think he gets worked out and he's productive
if he takes his ADHD meds butthen you know, when the meds
were off, it's like a free forall. So who knows? Right? I
don't know if there's a way tomanage those things.

Paige Bond (57:26):
I mean, you can put things in place. But again, it's
it's the brain has a mind of itsown so so you can put all those
things like right in front ofyou. You can set a jillion
reminders. But are we gonna lookat our phone? Are we gonna look
at and be like, Oh, yeah, blah,blah, blah, like throw the phone
away? Leave it in the fridge?
Yeah, whatever.

Michele Baci (57:44):
You know, this phone is bothering me. Do you
have any way to like improveyour memories or word games or
puzzles or something?

Paige Bond (57:54):
There was this Reddit post. And I know like
therapists recommending a Redditpost. Reddit is a goldmine. Yes,
it is. And gosh, it was like ajillion resources and one of
them. They said there's likethis memory thing that that you
can do. There's like some sortof exercise. I think it's like

(58:14):
called pyramid something. Haveyou heard of it? Like pyramid
memories? Something?

Michele Baci (58:19):
No. I've just told my boyfriend you have to have a
better memory. He's like, it'simpossible. That's as far as
we've gotten.

Paige Bond (58:26):
Yeah, well, that's like was gonna keep going.

Michele Baci (58:29):
Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, but it's a pyramid
game or,

Paige Bond (58:35):
um, it's not a game.
I don't know if it's like, gosh,I don't want to scroll like
through all my stuff now It'sokay. I'm is some other I'll
send it to you afterwards orsomething like that. But it's,
it's some sort of exercise thatyour mind to help you like, do
things because what I found whenI did the ADHD evaluation, my
memory is actually fine. It'sactually very much intact. To my

(59:00):
surprise, and my partner'ssurprise, and the the recall
that I think, is having troublewith like, I can do recall at
certain times, I don't know it'svery specific. Obviously don't
remember that. But it's theresomewhere.

Michele Baci (59:21):
But when you got diagnosed, you didn't question
that. You're like, yeah, thismakes sense.

Paige Bond (59:26):
Yeah, I was like, Okay, yeah, there's all that
criteria. And

Michele Baci (59:32):
especially there's really given day and age, like,
who doesn't have some of thesesymptoms? Mm hmm.

Paige Bond (59:37):
And it's so hard to because there's a lot of overlap
with ADHD and other diagnoses.
So what I found specificallywhat happens in women because
women are way under diagnosedwith ADHD is a lot of times
people just think you'redepressed to growing up and it
because there's a lot ofoverlapping symptoms with that
and I was like, Hmm, okay, well,I know that everybody thought I

(01:00:03):
was depressed and I know Iprobably was like at times but
yeah, ADHD was definitely athing back then.

Michele Baci (01:00:12):
But I think girls don't get diagnosed as much
maybe because we're like calmeras children people don't see as
as a red flag.

Paige Bond (01:00:21):
Yeah, there's a lot of doctors that are still not
well educated on the subject andso one they haven't done the
research or know that like hey,it's a real diagnosis. It's not
just people acting out or justbad parenting so I think there's
a lot of misinformation outthere. But luckily I mean
they're still doing a lot ofstudies and research so

(01:00:42):
hopefully, you know, it getsbetter over time.

Michele Baci (01:00:45):
Yeah, it's another thing I have to look into I will
Google ADHD pyramid page we'recoming toward the end I have a
few segments Do you want tospend the roulette wheel yes
let's

Paige Bond (01:00:59):
do it. How do I do it?

Michele Baci (01:01:00):
I just spit it for you and then I'll see where it
lands

Paige Bond (01:01:03):
All right, let's see what happens

Michele Baci (01:01:12):
if you could have dinner with any celebrity dead
or alive who would you choose?
It doesn't have to be acelebrity but I guess

Paige Bond (01:01:19):
Capco I was actually talking to my friends last night
about this and it wasn't thecelebrity person but like who
would you want to like meet deador alive and Oh gosh. It I'm
kind of nervous even saying theanswer because it's just like
sounds so silly. But I reallywant to meet someone who's
written a killer whale who'swritten a killer whale yeah yeah

(01:01:41):
like ready to killer whaleeither on its like mouth or on
its back or whatever I want tomeet someone who has been on top
of shambu

Michele Baci (01:01:49):
wow this is something I never would have
thought of. Why do you want tomeet this person?

Paige Bond (01:01:55):
I just one want to know what their experience was
like like it's it's got to bejust so like you know like just
on top of the world type offeeling and then to like I'm
really curious about theirconnection with the animal like
if they like bonded or if theyfelt like they bonded. And three

(01:02:16):
I just I really liked shambugrowing up I was huge fan of
Free Willy so that was the firstthing that popped into my mind
last night when I was asked thatquestion

Michele Baci (01:02:27):
and where would you like this conversation to
take place? If you could do itover dinner or drinks or in the
ocean?

Paige Bond (01:02:34):
Oh, ocean would be totally cool. Okay, so I think
what Okay, this is this in mymind now, I think in the ocean
but um, you know how like, theyhave cages for like the sharks
or like you're safe and stuff.
So like somehow building a cagethat could also like have a
table for the dinner who couldeat our meal, like in a safe
place, but in the middle ofnowhere, where like, all of them

(01:02:55):
are circling around us. Thatwould be really cool.

Michele Baci (01:03:00):
I like this idea.
Is this something that exists?
Have people read in killerwhales?

Paige Bond (01:03:06):
I mean, at SeaWorld, they do. Well, I don't know if
they do now, after Blackfishcame out. I'm not sure I haven't
been to SeaWorld in a long, longtime. But at SeaWorld, I mean
they were trained to do that.
Okay, so

Michele Baci (01:03:17):
some people have done it for sure. Oh, yeah,
totally. So

Paige Bond (01:03:22):
I got to find them.
The ones who are alive becausethere have been some incidents.

Michele Baci (01:03:28):
Are you near? Is there a SeaWorld in Florida?

Paige Bond (01:03:31):
There is there's one in Orlando oddly enough, I mean,
they do a lot of rehabilitation.
For for animals that are notdoing so well, like in the wild.
So I like that part of it. Butthere's also a lot of cons to
SeaWorld as well.

Michele Baci (01:03:47):
Yes. I've heard you should get one of them on
your podcast. Oh, that would bereally cool. Right? Setting man.
Yeah. Yeah. Instead of dinnerhaving

Paige Bond (01:03:58):
them on my podcast.

Michele Baci (01:03:59):
Yeah, right.
Expand the relationship catch upwith them over dinner. Yeah,
yep, that would be cool. I likeit. I like the answer. Yeah. My
other segment is venting. Isthere anything you want to vent
about? Or just like rants aboutfor a minute?

Paige Bond (01:04:16):
Then Tay? Oh, gosh, I mean, do you want to give me a
topic or like anything? I feellike if you live in Florida, you
you have topics at the readylike there must be things you
see going out. Yes. Yes. I'malready like the first thing I
thought of was like traffic andturn signals and like people
just zooming out really fast intraffic. And I get I get it, I

(01:04:40):
get why they're doing it. Youknow, they think maybe it's fun
to zoom around people. Like Iused to think that was cool, but
it's so dangerous and like thisis my really big pet peeve is
when they're just you know,zooming in and out, not doing
turn signals, not caring about,you know, almost close calls
with people. So yeah, youTraffic I hate you, Florida.

Michele Baci (01:05:02):
That is my event about that also a common problem
in Los Angeles. Yep. I actuallyjust had a guest on who got back
surgery from being rear endedwhich is like, terrible. Ah,

Paige Bond (01:05:15):
God, I was actually in Long Beach Los Angeles area
earlier this summer, and I wasfreaking terrified. So and I
live in Florida.

Michele Baci (01:05:25):
So I lived in North Hollywood, which is
northern Los Angeles. Yeah.
Before the pandemic that I movedto Long Beach, which is Southern
California. They're way moreaggressive in Long Beach. like
everyone's like, not trying tostop it Eddie lights, it seems
like Yeah, yeah, it was veryscary when I was there. So I was
surprised like the Florida didnot beat you in that category.

(01:05:47):
But yeah, yeah, yeah,California. Definitely the LA
area is a whole nother animal.
Like, yeah, try not to drive andtrying to like get a Tesla or
something.

Paige Bond (01:05:59):
I know. It's too much for me, please. Something
else? Yeah, um, any

Michele Baci (01:06:05):
wise words of relationship advice you want to
leave us with?

Paige Bond (01:06:09):
wise words of relationship advice that I would
leave you with would be Own yourfeelings. Think the best
intentions of your partner. Andremember why you love each other
because that often gets lost.
You know, a lot of the timesI'll get couples in and they
forget that they fell in loveafter you know being together

(01:06:32):
for however many years and I'mlike, Guys, there was something
really great here. So So thosethree things I'll leave you
with.

Michele Baci (01:06:40):
Those are good.
They're very pointed andpowerful. I like them. Mm hmm.
Let us know where to find you ifyou want to plug your podcast.

Paige Bond (01:06:50):
Okay, so I actually have two podcasts. I don't
usually plug this other one busyor fuzzy lady. Yeah, I try to be
so I'll say the first one iscalled emo cast. Do you like emo
music at all?

Michele Baci (01:07:04):
I do. I have a lot of tattoos to you know, prove
it.

Paige Bond (01:07:08):
Yeah, so like My Chemical Romance Pierce the Veil
data. Remember? We do podcast.
emo cast is about like usbreaking down the lyrics to
different emo songs that weloved growing up, or that we
still loved now. And so it's meand my other friend who's also a
therapist, that that's kind ofour plug like two therapists
breaking down the mental healthaspects of emo music. Oh, that's

(01:07:28):
so cool, huh? So that's theemail cast because we'll we'll
play the song within the podcastshow so that the listeners get
to hear the song and the lyrics.
And then we'll just like, kindof go line by line or wherever
we find like a lot of meaning inthe lyrics for whatever song
we're doing. So that's a lot offun. I

Michele Baci (01:07:48):
like that. If you ever need a pop punk expert, I
can tag him. Yeah, okay, we'llconnect.

Paige Bond (01:07:55):
And then the other one that I do is called stubborn
love. So that's my one aboutrelationships where you can find
tips on it. And on all the majorplatforms, Spotify, apple,
castbox, all those. And I onlyhave a few episodes out right
now I'm still getting there. Buttopics I like to talk about are
the ones that we don't liketalking about. So money, sex,

(01:08:20):
non traditional relationships.
That's where you get some reallygood tips.

Michele Baci (01:08:26):
Yeah, definitely check them out emo cast and
stubborn love. And thanks somuch for coming on the podcast.

Paige Bond (01:08:33):
Yeah, thank you for having me. It was fun.

Michele Baci (01:08:35):
Hey, thank you so much for listening. I really do
appreciate it. If you have a fewextra minutes to spare. Even if
you have 30 seconds. Could youleave me a review on Apple
podcasts, it would really mean alot. You can also if you don't
on the Apple App, you can go torate this podcast comm slash
therapy and leave me a reviewthat way. It really goes a long

(01:08:57):
way. If you have a few extrabucks you could donate toward
production costs or my [e-mail] it's k o dash f
fi comm slash Therapy Roulette.
You'll see my picture on thereso you know it's me and tell a
friend about the podcast. Tell astranger tell an enemy. Word of
mouth helps get people to knowwhat Therapy Roulette is. It

(01:09:22):
gets some talking about mentalhealth. So go do your part and
keep being awesome. Thank you. Iwill be back with a new episode.
Not next Thursday but intoThursday's

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disguised as comedy / TherapyRoulette: Consent to Vent / If
you dont have problems, thenyoure likely repressing sh*t
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