August 7, 2025 • 25 mins
Fit, Healthy & Happy Podcast
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to there is a Method to the Madness.
My name is Rob Maxwell and I'man exercise physiologist and
personal trainer.
I am the owner of Maxwell'sFitness Programs and I've been
in business since 1994.
The purpose of this podcast isto get to the real deal of what
really works and, mostimportantly, why things work.
(00:21):
Hence the name there is amethod to the madness.
Before I get to today's show, Iwant to thank Jonathan and Lynn
Gildan of the Gildan Group atRealty Pros.
They are committed to providingthe highest level of customer
service in home sales.
Why don't you give them a shoutand figure out what your home
is worth?
386-451-2412.
(00:46):
All right, are we ready to talkabout some fitness?
I mean, I am really ready totalk about some fitness.
This topic right here, I think,is so important I've talked
about this before important I'vetalked about this before.
If you've trained with me for awhile, trained with me for a
(01:15):
long while.
Whatever, this topic has comeup and resurfaces quite a bit,
and the topic is don't let thetail wag the dog, all right.
So specifically, I'm going totalk about this in regards to
cardiorespiratory training,because I see this happened a
lot.
All right, so we know that thetail is supposed to wag the dog,
(01:37):
right?
I mean, it's not supposed to bethe other way around.
The tail isn't supposed to wagthe dog.
So that's, of course, what thatterm means, or that sentence
means, and oftentimes we kind ofget things backwards.
So I want to talk about cardiointensity, specifically as it
(01:58):
relates to, say, running andcycling and other forms of
cardio.
You can throw swimming in theretoo, to where there's a
performance element in it,because when there's a
performance element in it, allof a sudden trainees have a
tendency to go by theperformance elements to measure
(02:20):
their fitness variables, versusthe other way around.
Hence they're letting the tailwag the dog.
So let me give you somespecifics.
First, let's take running.
Ironically, of course, I wasthinking of this topic as I was
running the other day and Ithink I've shared this before.
That's where I get.
(02:41):
A lot of the things that I wantto talk about in the podcast
come from when I'm out running,or the emails that we write this
morning's actually, ellen wroteon massage, but often I'll
write those or you know what?
I have written so many books.
Well, I've written three books.
The third one just went to thepublisher.
The third one just went to thepublisher, but I should say
(03:04):
these books have been writtenacross so many runs because I
get the ideas when I'm running.
I get the ideas when I'mworking out.
That's like my meditation timeto really think on things.
And then I do my due diligence,I do my homework and I make
sure I'm ready to talk about itor write about it.
So that's where this came fromwhen I was running on Saturday.
(03:26):
I'm like gosh.
So many times you know we all,including myself, will fall prey
to this.
If we've run or if we do runand we have like Garmin watches
or we have Apple watches or wehave any kind of sports watch
like that, that's telling us ourpace.
Too often times we're allowingthat number to tell us what we
(03:48):
should run at and in reality,pace is a performance objective.
It is not a fitness objective.
So if you right now go aheadand do this, you'll have fun
with this.
If you go in to a chat GBT or ameta AI or grok whatever
(04:10):
service you use you know um andyou or Google I mean Google's
using all AI now, whatever andyou say I run my 5k at this time
or I run my three mile run,typically at this pace or this
time, whatever.
Or I bike 25 miles.
It takes me an hour and a half,you know whatever.
Or I swim 60 minutes and I dothis many yards.
(04:33):
I mean whatever.
I mean our watches do all that.
But I'm just saying thisdoesn't have to be confined to
just your sports watches andthen you ask it to give you the
paces to train at.
It will.
It's going to give you the paceand that's what you asked it to
do and that's fine.
But it's not fine if you'retrying to improve your fitness
(04:57):
and I would argue, not even yourperformance, because these
things are not all the same.
Because these things are notall the same.
The way we get more aerobicallyfit is a balance between
duration, frequency andintensity.
I mean, it's those things.
Duration is how long, andreally I could go off on a
tangent which I have before,which is why time is so much
(05:19):
better than miles, because whenwe're trying to improve fitness,
it's about duration I don'targue this one too much because
ultimately, if you're doing themiles, you're doing the time and
vice versa.
But it's about duration,frequency and intensity.
We don't have a perfect formula.
We know that it's a balancebetween overloading those things
(05:40):
using the right amount ofintensity, using the right
duration for you and thefrequency that works for you as
well.
And then we build a program.
So pace is not really intensity, even though it is used as
intensity, all right.
So if you go out and you sayyou're going to run, let's say
(06:01):
10 minute miles, and that, likeI mean, maybe the 10 minute
miles makes complete sense foryou based on your 5k.
But let's say you're going torun it when it's January in
Florida, at an ideal time of day, and you didn't do anything the
day before, so you have freshlegs, you're not stressed, and
(06:26):
it's beautiful temperatures, orat least good temperatures.
That pace is going to feel waydifferent than 10 minute miles
in August, regardless of thetime of day.
High humidity in August, right,and maybe your legs are tired.
But forget the legs part.
I mean that's just anothervariable to add to it.
Let's just use temperature.
It's not the same thing.
(06:48):
I mean that 10 minute mile inJanuary might be like around a
60% of your VO2 max or maximumheart rate, and it might be 85
to 90% in August.
It's not the same thing, allright.
And what about terrain.
You don't think terrain matters.
So you can be on an asphaltroad that's perfectly flat.
(07:11):
10 minute miles is going tofeel oh, pretty easy, pretty
moderate, whatever, depending onyour fitness.
Put it on a dirt hill, it's notgoing to feel the same.
So I mean, obviously that'sobvious, right, that's like well
, of course, the same.
So I mean obviously that'sobvious, right, that's like well
, of course.
But what we don't understand isthat those variables affect the
impact on our body.
(07:32):
What we're looking for ischanges in the body.
So we want the right stimulusto get the right response.
So if we're going by pace allthe time, chances are you are
over training all the timebecause chances are you're going
to think you need to run afaster pace than you need to.
For example, you know most sayrunning coaches will tell you
(07:55):
that like for an easy or easyrun not a long run, but an easy
run it's going to be like abouta minute slower per mile than
your 5K average pace.
So if you run a 5K at a nineminute mile, an easier run is
going to be a 10.
So everybody's going to go outthat runs the 5K and that and
run 10 minute miles.
(08:16):
Probably not easy in August.
Like, probably you're notallowing enough time or enough
pace to change that.
So that's not going to work.
And the same can lapse in thepool.
It's not the same.
I mean you could be tired oneday.
The pool water could be hotcompared to days that they water
(08:39):
it overnight or whatever theydo to make it cooler.
I mean you don't know how manytimes I've gone to different
pools.
Different YMCAs have differentpolicies depending on when
they're going to start theirwater aerobics.
The, you know, seniorstypically do the water aerobics
and they like the water warmer.
So if they kind of dominatethat particular YMCA, then
(09:01):
they're not going to cool it offin the morning.
So you'll go in, you'll jump inat six and it's going to be 80
something degrees alreadybecause they haven't cooled it
off.
Now, if it's, say, a swimmerdominant pool, I remember back
when we had one of the areasbetter coaches here in Port
Orange.
They used to, you know, kind ofaccommodate him so they would
(09:22):
have the cooler things on in themorning and you jump in.
It'd be 76, 78, something likethat.
So that makes a difference.
And, by the way, I'm not sayingwhat's best for policy for the Y
.
I'm just saying that you don'tknow it's a crapshoot.
So you can jump in and thewater's nice and cool.
You're going to hit your timesthat you think you should hit.
You're going to be like, ohokay, you're going to jump in on
(09:42):
other days and the pool's goingto be hot and, yes, we get
dehydrated when we're in thewater and it's not going to feel
or be the same.
And, of course, the same istrue on the bike.
Do you have headwinds out there?
Do you have a tailwind?
Are there hills?
Is it a lot of turns?
Is there?
Is the terrain nice or is therepart gravel?
(10:02):
I mean, these things matter,okay, and if we only use that,
if we only use miles per hour orpace, or pace in the pool, lap
times in the pool or intervaltimes in the pool, we are
letting the tail wag the dog.
What we should be doing is usinga legitimate form of intensity
(10:28):
to measure it, because rarelyare these paces going to line up
with where you should be.
Like when you are trainingaerobically, which is what the
majority of ourcardiorespiratory training
should be.
It should be aerobic.
Aerobic is moderate to easy.
It is not hard.
You start to get a littlebreathless at the higher end of
(10:51):
aerobic but you can still talk.
But that's just not the onlyvariable.
I've heard people say to meover the years I mean I've been
doing this a long time and I'vewritten in many, many different
running periodicals FloridaRunning and Triathlon.
I had a column and so I've beendoing this a long time.
So I've heard all of theexcuses and all the reasons and
(11:12):
people say, yeah, but you know,I can still talk.
It's like, okay, but you'restill well up above your upper
aerobic zone and you're going toover train if you keep it up
You're not.
Just because you're not gettinginjured doesn't mean you're not
getting over trained.
So really, using pace like thatand it's an ego thing.
(11:35):
Runners and bicyclists andswimmers and triathletes it's an
ego thing.
They think, well, I should bedoing this.
But in reality, if you reallywant to train for fitness,
whether you're a 5k person, atriathlete or just a fitness
person, I don't mean just, Imean that's.
I don't mean that at all.
(11:57):
I think oftentimes people thatdo endurance events, you know,
forget that the whole reasonthey're doing it is for fitness.
Right, I mean, there's a way tomeasure it, but it's all about
improving the fitness you wouldhope.
And if you're improving yourfitness, your performance is
obviously going to go up.
And we improve our fitness bygoing by frequency, intensity
(12:21):
and time right.
It is nothing to do with pace.
So what is the best method touse for us everyday folk, like
there are so many different waysto measure intensity?
The gold standard has alwaysbeen VO2 max, but that's not
applicable for most people.
You can get your VO2 max testdone I used to do it but then
(12:44):
what are you going to do withthat information?
It's not like you're going towalk around with a bag on your
back.
You know that measureseverything as you go.
Walk around with a bag on yourback.
You know that measureseverything as you go.
Oftentimes that was correlatedback to heart rate and you were
able to do that.
That's great.
You know some of the pros, someof the top endurance people.
(13:06):
They're using what is calledOBLA, or onset of blood lactic
acid accumulation, or they'reusing lactate threshold.
It's the same thing really, butthey're using that and they're
coming up with measurements ofwhere it is and then they're
checking it periodically orthey're drawing that back to
heart rate.
I mean that's great too.
But like we got a fitnessproblem in this country, we
don't need to make it socomplicated.
(13:27):
What I would suggest that youdo is simply use heart rate.
It's not perfect but it's good.
I noticed on my Garmin theother day.
You know I didn't set my zones.
It sets based on your age.
So there's a formula we've usedforever which is 220 minus your
age and then you factor in yourresting heart rate and you come
(13:50):
up with your zone.
So we call that the Carvoninformula or heart rate reserve
formula.
I mean we can do it by hand.
We've been doing it forever.
You know our sports watches doit for us and you can simply use
that and make adjustments.
That would be so much betterthan going by pace of what you
(14:11):
think you should be and if youallow your ego to get involved
like, oh, I should be runningfaster than this, just put the
screen purely on heart rate andduration.
If you don't have these watchesand you're trying to figure it
out for yourself, that's fine,just ask me if you don't want to
.
But basically, it's 220 minusyour age, don't worry about the
(14:35):
resting heart rate point, butthen factor in roughly 0.80.
Times it by 0.80, that's 80%.
Keep it below that on most runs.
You're going to find that if youwere going by your easy pace
running, you're over 80%.
Especially in this heat you'reprobably well over it.
(14:55):
I probably like all of us.
But we follow people that posttheir heart rate numbers all the
time on social media.
I'm not a big fan of that.
I think that's pretty like why,like nobody really cares.
But some people do that and Ialways look at it and go.
They are training at such ahigh heart rate for what they're
calling an easy day and I knowI'm well enough to go.
(15:19):
They're going to argue and sayit was easy, I could talk, and
it's like it's not easy, like inthis case.
Numbers don't lie.
It is still stressing the body.
It is still stressing theendocrine system.
It is still not doing what youwant it to do to get the
cardiovascular benefits.
(15:40):
I mean you talk to any of theelite running coaches.
They will tell you the samething 80% or so of the training
should be easy.
Magic happens in the easiertraining zones.
Magic happens your capillarydensity improves.
Your mitochondria hypertrophy.
The mitochondria are whatreceives the oxygen within the
(16:02):
cells.
They hypertrophy at loweraerobic intensities.
They don't hypertrophy athigher intensities.
Those things are happening atthe lower levels.
And then just the calorie burn.
You're getting it already andthe ease on the mind like you
don't have to push yourself sohard with cardio.
(16:24):
I mean you're using slow twitchmuscle fibers.
You should be.
If you're using fast twitchmuscle fibers, you're already
anaerobic, you're alreadytraining too hard.
Now there is a point to dointervals in anybody's plan I
mean I shouldn't say anybody.
You can get away with doingyour cardio workouts if you're
looking for general fitness andnever get into that.
(16:46):
So don't get me wrong.
You could briskly walk everyday and be absolutely fine.
If you're training for generalhealth and fitness, absolutely.
If you are trying to improveyour performance because you're
going to do a 5k or whatever,then yes, there is a time to do
a day or two hard per week whereyou're doing intervals.
But the majority of cardioneeds to be moderate to low
(17:08):
intensity, and moderate is 80%or lower, lower, lower, lower.
The cool thing with the Garminwatch is it'll tell you, it'll
say you're in your aerobic zoneor it'll say you're in your easy
zone.
I think Apple does all that too.
So I'm going to keep thisreally simple for you at the
easiest change you need to make,where you don't overthink it.
(17:30):
I know the zones can be off.
I know sometimes the watchesaren't perfect when they
calculate your zones.
You can redo that, by the way,but the very least just use the
zones they give you.
If it says hard or what theymight call threshold, that means
you're going too hard.
I think Garmin uses what theycall threshold and then hard.
(17:52):
I'm not really sure I have anApple Watch 2, but it will
probably say something like thatOkay, then you're going too
hard.
Keep it aerobic, moderate oreasy, whatever your watch says.
And remember, if you want tocalculate it, that's 80% and
that is true whether you bike,whether you walk, whether you
(18:13):
run or whether you swim.
Certain activities are going tonaturally drive up the heart
rate easier than otheractivities.
Jogging or running is going todrive the heart rate up higher
than walking.
That's just the way it's goingto be.
So for most people, most peopleyou're not going to have to run
or jog hard at all.
(18:34):
Most people, you're going tojust break into that pace of
jogging and already be in youraerobic zone.
I promise you that.
You don't know how many timesI've trained people and they'll
say, I mean, as soon as I startto jog, my heart rate's over 80%
.
It's like, yeah, I mean it'sgoing to do that and that's fine
if you moderate it and pull itback.
(18:56):
Cycling is always going to takemore work to get your heart rate
up because you're not weightbearing, you basically are not
pushing against the resistanceof the body because you're not
weight bearing.
You're using less overallmusculature because you're
basically using your quads, yourhamstrings, your calves and
your glutes and you're onlyusing your core to stabilize
(19:17):
yourself.
So you're using less musclesand you think, well, when you
run you're only using your legs.
But that's not true.
Your torso's bending, your armsare moving, you're getting your
heart rate up higher.
So it's going to be harder toget the heart rate up on a bike,
but that doesn't mean it'sdifferent zones.
It's just going to take youmore work to, say, get the 70%
(19:38):
on a bike than it would if yourun.
But 70% is 70% of max heartrate or VO2.
When you swim, because you'rein the horizontal position, the
heart rate tends to not climb asfast, just kind of like cycling
.
Different reasons but same withcycling, so the heart rate's
(19:59):
not going to be as elevatedbecause your body is not in a
vertical position.
So that's why we really need topay more attention to our heart
rate and the true intensityversus our paces.
Okay, the other suggestion Ihave, along with heart rate, is
use RPE.
Use the new RPE, which standsfor rate of perceived exertion.
(20:25):
In the old days we use the Borgscale rate perceived exertion,
which measured from six to 20.
And it's kind of funny littlestory in that people are like
six, that's such a weird number.
It's like, well, what they didwas they figured most people
again.
It's so crazy when you reallyhear this.
But most people's resting heartrate was around 60 and they
(20:47):
were using 20 year olds.
So they said you know most wellif you're using age prediction.
Then all 20 year olds max heartrates were olds.
So they said you know most wellif you're using age prediction,
then all 20 year olds max heartrates were 200.
So they use that.
And then they took off a zeroand made it six to 20.
So six was basically rest,nothing, 20 was maximal effort.
And then they came up with allthese different corresponding
(21:08):
numbers like 12 to 16 wasmoderate, 16 to 18 was vigorous,
to hard.
I mean it's really kind ofsilly when you learn that that's
how they came up with the Borgnumbers.
But using RPE at least gotpeople thinking about how things
should feel.
But we have a better versionnow which is just basically zero
(21:29):
to 10.
Zero is you're at rest, 10 isyou're at a maximum.
Aerobic is going to besomewhere between four and six.
So if you just tell yourselfyou know, a 10 is maximum.
We have a client that warms uphere and he builds as he goes
and his final two minutes eightto minute, eight to minute 10,
he pushes a sprint.
(21:50):
So you know he might feel nearmaximum.
On that he might say, yeah, I'mat a nine or a 10.
It's like, okay, so zero, rest10.
Maximum Aerobic is going to besomewhere around four to six.
So you go okay, so if I'mrunning as hard as I can, that's
a 10.
If I really dial this back alittle bit, I should feel
(22:11):
comfortable.
I'd rather you use RPE than usePACE, because PACE is going to
throw you off.
Pretty much.
Everybody is going to overtrainif they use the same numbers in
the summer that they used in thewinter.
If you're training outside,you're just going to Now on
indoor training, like treadmillsand indoor bikes, can you
(22:33):
eventually figure out, like,what levels are equate to the
certain heart rate zones youwant to be at?
Yes, I mean you can.
I mean that's common sense.
If you've been using atreadmill over and over and you
know that, say you're in the onethirties, which for you is
aerobic, and you're at 6.0 onthe treadmill, it's like, well,
yeah, then 6.0 is probably goingto work for you.
(22:55):
But training outside you're notgoing to be able to draw those
kinds of conclusions.
So you don't necessarily haveto check it all the time indoors
, but I think you're going tohave to check it all the time
outdoors.
If you don't have a fancy watch,if you're old school and you
don't want to use all that, thenuse RPE, just four to six.
(23:16):
Tell yourself, aerobic justmeans my heart rate is elevated.
I can still talk.
I can't necessarily tell aHiggins story, if you remember
Magnum PI, but I can talk andit's doable and I don't feel
like I need to stop.
It's comfortable to an extent.
(23:37):
All right, if you just use that, I think you'll be off to a
great start on that.
You're not supposed to bekilling yourself on aerobic
intensity.
All right, don't let the tailwag the dog.
You need to wag your own tail.
Thank you for listening totoday's program.
I ask you to please follow theshow wherever you get your
(24:00):
podcasts and please selectautomatic download, because that
really helps the show.
Now I want to thank OverheadDoor of Daytona Beach, the
area's premier garage doorcompany.
They have the best product.
They have the best service.
I personally vouch for Jeff andZach Hawk, the owners.
They are great people with agreat company.
(24:22):
If you have any garage doorneeds, please give them a shout
at 386-222-3165.
Welcome to there is a Method to the Madness.
My name is Rob Maxwell and I'man exercise physiologist and
personal trainer.
I am the owner of Maxwell'sFitness Programs and I've been
in business since 1994.
The purpose of this podcast isto get to the real deal of what
really works and, mostimportantly, why things work.
(00:21):
Hence the name there is amethod to the madness.
Before I get to today's show, Iwant to thank Jonathan and Lynn
Gildan of the Gildan Group atRealty Pros.
They are committed to providingthe highest level of customer
service in home sales.
Why don't you give them a shoutand figure out what your home
is worth?
386-451-2412.
(00:46):
All right, are we ready to talkabout some fitness?
I mean, I am really ready totalk about some fitness.
This topic right here, I think,is so important I've talked
about this before important I'vetalked about this before.
If you've trained with me for awhile, trained with me for a
(01:15):
long while.
Whatever, this topic has comeup and resurfaces quite a bit,
and the topic is don't let thetail wag the dog, all right.
So specifically, I'm going totalk about this in regards to
cardiorespiratory training,because I see this happened a
lot.
All right, so we know that thetail is supposed to wag the dog,
(01:37):
right?
I mean, it's not supposed to bethe other way around.
The tail isn't supposed to wagthe dog.
So that's, of course, what thatterm means, or that sentence
means, and oftentimes we kind ofget things backwards.
So I want to talk about cardiointensity, specifically as it
(01:58):
relates to, say, running andcycling and other forms of
cardio.
You can throw swimming in theretoo, to where there's a
performance element in it,because when there's a
performance element in it, allof a sudden trainees have a
tendency to go by theperformance elements to measure
(02:20):
their fitness variables, versusthe other way around.
Hence they're letting the tailwag the dog.
So let me give you somespecifics.
First, let's take running.
Ironically, of course, I wasthinking of this topic as I was
running the other day and Ithink I've shared this before.
That's where I get.
(02:41):
A lot of the things that I wantto talk about in the podcast
come from when I'm out running,or the emails that we write this
morning's actually, ellen wroteon massage, but often I'll
write those or you know what?
I have written so many books.
Well, I've written three books.
The third one just went to thepublisher.
The third one just went to thepublisher, but I should say
(03:04):
these books have been writtenacross so many runs because I
get the ideas when I'm running.
I get the ideas when I'mworking out.
That's like my meditation timeto really think on things.
And then I do my due diligence,I do my homework and I make
sure I'm ready to talk about itor write about it.
So that's where this came fromwhen I was running on Saturday.
(03:26):
I'm like gosh.
So many times you know we all,including myself, will fall prey
to this.
If we've run or if we do runand we have like Garmin watches
or we have Apple watches or wehave any kind of sports watch
like that, that's telling us ourpace.
Too often times we're allowingthat number to tell us what we
(03:48):
should run at and in reality,pace is a performance objective.
It is not a fitness objective.
So if you right now go aheadand do this, you'll have fun
with this.
If you go in to a chat GBT or ameta AI or grok whatever
(04:10):
service you use you know um andyou or Google I mean Google's
using all AI now, whatever andyou say I run my 5k at this time
or I run my three mile run,typically at this pace or this
time, whatever.
Or I bike 25 miles.
It takes me an hour and a half,you know whatever.
Or I swim 60 minutes and I dothis many yards.
(04:33):
I mean whatever.
I mean our watches do all that.
But I'm just saying thisdoesn't have to be confined to
just your sports watches andthen you ask it to give you the
paces to train at.
It will.
It's going to give you the paceand that's what you asked it to
do and that's fine.
But it's not fine if you'retrying to improve your fitness
(04:57):
and I would argue, not even yourperformance, because these
things are not all the same.
Because these things are notall the same.
The way we get more aerobicallyfit is a balance between
duration, frequency andintensity.
I mean, it's those things.
Duration is how long, andreally I could go off on a
tangent which I have before,which is why time is so much
(05:19):
better than miles, because whenwe're trying to improve fitness,
it's about duration I don'targue this one too much because
ultimately, if you're doing themiles, you're doing the time and
vice versa.
But it's about duration,frequency and intensity.
We don't have a perfect formula.
We know that it's a balancebetween overloading those things
(05:40):
using the right amount ofintensity, using the right
duration for you and thefrequency that works for you as
well.
And then we build a program.
So pace is not really intensity, even though it is used as
intensity, all right.
So if you go out and you sayyou're going to run, let's say
(06:01):
10 minute miles, and that, likeI mean, maybe the 10 minute
miles makes complete sense foryou based on your 5k.
But let's say you're going torun it when it's January in
Florida, at an ideal time of day, and you didn't do anything the
day before, so you have freshlegs, you're not stressed, and
(06:26):
it's beautiful temperatures, orat least good temperatures.
That pace is going to feel waydifferent than 10 minute miles
in August, regardless of thetime of day.
High humidity in August, right,and maybe your legs are tired.
But forget the legs part.
I mean that's just anothervariable to add to it.
Let's just use temperature.
It's not the same thing.
(06:48):
I mean that 10 minute mile inJanuary might be like around a
60% of your VO2 max or maximumheart rate, and it might be 85
to 90% in August.
It's not the same thing, allright.
And what about terrain.
You don't think terrain matters.
So you can be on an asphaltroad that's perfectly flat.
(07:11):
10 minute miles is going tofeel oh, pretty easy, pretty
moderate, whatever, depending onyour fitness.
Put it on a dirt hill, it's notgoing to feel the same.
So I mean, obviously that'sobvious, right, that's like well
, of course, the same.
So I mean obviously that'sobvious, right, that's like well
, of course.
But what we don't understand isthat those variables affect the
impact on our body.
(07:32):
What we're looking for ischanges in the body.
So we want the right stimulusto get the right response.
So if we're going by pace allthe time, chances are you are
over training all the timebecause chances are you're going
to think you need to run afaster pace than you need to.
For example, you know most sayrunning coaches will tell you
(07:55):
that like for an easy or easyrun not a long run, but an easy
run it's going to be like abouta minute slower per mile than
your 5K average pace.
So if you run a 5K at a nineminute mile, an easier run is
going to be a 10.
So everybody's going to go outthat runs the 5K and that and
run 10 minute miles.
(08:16):
Probably not easy in August.
Like, probably you're notallowing enough time or enough
pace to change that.
So that's not going to work.
And the same can lapse in thepool.
It's not the same.
I mean you could be tired oneday.
The pool water could be hotcompared to days that they water
(08:39):
it overnight or whatever theydo to make it cooler.
I mean you don't know how manytimes I've gone to different
pools.
Different YMCAs have differentpolicies depending on when
they're going to start theirwater aerobics.
The, you know, seniorstypically do the water aerobics
and they like the water warmer.
So if they kind of dominatethat particular YMCA, then
(09:01):
they're not going to cool it offin the morning.
So you'll go in, you'll jump inat six and it's going to be 80
something degrees alreadybecause they haven't cooled it
off.
Now, if it's, say, a swimmerdominant pool, I remember back
when we had one of the areasbetter coaches here in Port
Orange.
They used to, you know, kind ofaccommodate him so they would
(09:22):
have the cooler things on in themorning and you jump in.
It'd be 76, 78, something likethat.
So that makes a difference.
And, by the way, I'm not sayingwhat's best for policy for the Y
.
I'm just saying that you don'tknow it's a crapshoot.
So you can jump in and thewater's nice and cool.
You're going to hit your timesthat you think you should hit.
You're going to be like, ohokay, you're going to jump in on
(09:42):
other days and the pool's goingto be hot and, yes, we get
dehydrated when we're in thewater and it's not going to feel
or be the same.
And, of course, the same istrue on the bike.
Do you have headwinds out there?
Do you have a tailwind?
Are there hills?
Is it a lot of turns?
Is there?
Is the terrain nice or is therepart gravel?
(10:02):
I mean, these things matter,okay, and if we only use that,
if we only use miles per hour orpace, or pace in the pool, lap
times in the pool or intervaltimes in the pool, we are
letting the tail wag the dog.
What we should be doing is usinga legitimate form of intensity
(10:28):
to measure it, because rarelyare these paces going to line up
with where you should be.
Like when you are trainingaerobically, which is what the
majority of ourcardiorespiratory training
should be.
It should be aerobic.
Aerobic is moderate to easy.
It is not hard.
You start to get a littlebreathless at the higher end of
(10:51):
aerobic but you can still talk.
But that's just not the onlyvariable.
I've heard people say to meover the years I mean I've been
doing this a long time and I'vewritten in many, many different
running periodicals FloridaRunning and Triathlon.
I had a column and so I've beendoing this a long time.
So I've heard all of theexcuses and all the reasons and
(11:12):
people say, yeah, but you know,I can still talk.
It's like, okay, but you'restill well up above your upper
aerobic zone and you're going toover train if you keep it up
You're not.
Just because you're not gettinginjured doesn't mean you're not
getting over trained.
So really, using pace like thatand it's an ego thing.
(11:35):
Runners and bicyclists andswimmers and triathletes it's an
ego thing.
They think, well, I should bedoing this.
But in reality, if you reallywant to train for fitness,
whether you're a 5k person, atriathlete or just a fitness
person, I don't mean just, Imean that's.
I don't mean that at all.
(11:57):
I think oftentimes people thatdo endurance events, you know,
forget that the whole reasonthey're doing it is for fitness.
Right, I mean, there's a way tomeasure it, but it's all about
improving the fitness you wouldhope.
And if you're improving yourfitness, your performance is
obviously going to go up.
And we improve our fitness bygoing by frequency, intensity
(12:21):
and time right.
It is nothing to do with pace.
So what is the best method touse for us everyday folk, like
there are so many different waysto measure intensity?
The gold standard has alwaysbeen VO2 max, but that's not
applicable for most people.
You can get your VO2 max testdone I used to do it but then
(12:44):
what are you going to do withthat information?
It's not like you're going towalk around with a bag on your
back.
You know that measureseverything as you go.
Walk around with a bag on yourback.
You know that measureseverything as you go.
Oftentimes that was correlatedback to heart rate and you were
able to do that.
That's great.
You know some of the pros, someof the top endurance people.
(13:06):
They're using what is calledOBLA, or onset of blood lactic
acid accumulation, or they'reusing lactate threshold.
It's the same thing really, butthey're using that and they're
coming up with measurements ofwhere it is and then they're
checking it periodically orthey're drawing that back to
heart rate.
I mean that's great too.
But like we got a fitnessproblem in this country, we
don't need to make it socomplicated.
(13:27):
What I would suggest that youdo is simply use heart rate.
It's not perfect but it's good.
I noticed on my Garmin theother day.
You know I didn't set my zones.
It sets based on your age.
So there's a formula we've usedforever which is 220 minus your
age and then you factor in yourresting heart rate and you come
(13:50):
up with your zone.
So we call that the Carvoninformula or heart rate reserve
formula.
I mean we can do it by hand.
We've been doing it forever.
You know our sports watches doit for us and you can simply use
that and make adjustments.
That would be so much betterthan going by pace of what you
(14:11):
think you should be and if youallow your ego to get involved
like, oh, I should be runningfaster than this, just put the
screen purely on heart rate andduration.
If you don't have these watchesand you're trying to figure it
out for yourself, that's fine,just ask me if you don't want to
.
But basically, it's 220 minusyour age, don't worry about the
(14:35):
resting heart rate point, butthen factor in roughly 0.80.
Times it by 0.80, that's 80%.
Keep it below that on most runs.
You're going to find that if youwere going by your easy pace
running, you're over 80%.
Especially in this heat you'reprobably well over it.
(14:55):
I probably like all of us.
But we follow people that posttheir heart rate numbers all the
time on social media.
I'm not a big fan of that.
I think that's pretty like why,like nobody really cares.
But some people do that and Ialways look at it and go.
They are training at such ahigh heart rate for what they're
calling an easy day and I knowI'm well enough to go.
(15:19):
They're going to argue and sayit was easy, I could talk, and
it's like it's not easy, like inthis case.
Numbers don't lie.
It is still stressing the body.
It is still stressing theendocrine system.
It is still not doing what youwant it to do to get the
cardiovascular benefits.
(15:40):
I mean you talk to any of theelite running coaches.
They will tell you the samething 80% or so of the training
should be easy.
Magic happens in the easiertraining zones.
Magic happens your capillarydensity improves.
Your mitochondria hypertrophy.
The mitochondria are whatreceives the oxygen within the
(16:02):
cells.
They hypertrophy at loweraerobic intensities.
They don't hypertrophy athigher intensities.
Those things are happening atthe lower levels.
And then just the calorie burn.
You're getting it already andthe ease on the mind like you
don't have to push yourself sohard with cardio.
(16:24):
I mean you're using slow twitchmuscle fibers.
You should be.
If you're using fast twitchmuscle fibers, you're already
anaerobic, you're alreadytraining too hard.
Now there is a point to dointervals in anybody's plan I
mean I shouldn't say anybody.
You can get away with doingyour cardio workouts if you're
looking for general fitness andnever get into that.
(16:46):
So don't get me wrong.
You could briskly walk everyday and be absolutely fine.
If you're training for generalhealth and fitness, absolutely.
If you are trying to improveyour performance because you're
going to do a 5k or whatever,then yes, there is a time to do
a day or two hard per week whereyou're doing intervals.
But the majority of cardioneeds to be moderate to low
(17:08):
intensity, and moderate is 80%or lower, lower, lower, lower.
The cool thing with the Garminwatch is it'll tell you, it'll
say you're in your aerobic zoneor it'll say you're in your easy
zone.
I think Apple does all that too.
So I'm going to keep thisreally simple for you at the
easiest change you need to make,where you don't overthink it.
(17:30):
I know the zones can be off.
I know sometimes the watchesaren't perfect when they
calculate your zones.
You can redo that, by the way,but the very least just use the
zones they give you.
If it says hard or what theymight call threshold, that means
you're going too hard.
I think Garmin uses what theycall threshold and then hard.
(17:52):
I'm not really sure I have anApple Watch 2, but it will
probably say something like thatOkay, then you're going too
hard.
Keep it aerobic, moderate oreasy, whatever your watch says.
And remember, if you want tocalculate it, that's 80% and
that is true whether you bike,whether you walk, whether you
(18:13):
run or whether you swim.
Certain activities are going tonaturally drive up the heart
rate easier than otheractivities.
Jogging or running is going todrive the heart rate up higher
than walking.
That's just the way it's goingto be.
So for most people, most peopleyou're not going to have to run
or jog hard at all.
(18:34):
Most people, you're going tojust break into that pace of
jogging and already be in youraerobic zone.
I promise you that.
You don't know how many timesI've trained people and they'll
say, I mean, as soon as I startto jog, my heart rate's over 80%
.
It's like, yeah, I mean it'sgoing to do that and that's fine
if you moderate it and pull itback.
(18:56):
Cycling is always going to takemore work to get your heart rate
up because you're not weightbearing, you basically are not
pushing against the resistanceof the body because you're not
weight bearing.
You're using less overallmusculature because you're
basically using your quads, yourhamstrings, your calves and
your glutes and you're onlyusing your core to stabilize
(19:17):
yourself.
So you're using less musclesand you think, well, when you
run you're only using your legs.
But that's not true.
Your torso's bending, your armsare moving, you're getting your
heart rate up higher.
So it's going to be harder toget the heart rate up on a bike,
but that doesn't mean it'sdifferent zones.
It's just going to take youmore work to, say, get the 70%
(19:38):
on a bike than it would if yourun.
But 70% is 70% of max heartrate or VO2.
When you swim, because you'rein the horizontal position, the
heart rate tends to not climb asfast, just kind of like cycling
.
Different reasons but same withcycling, so the heart rate's
(19:59):
not going to be as elevatedbecause your body is not in a
vertical position.
So that's why we really need topay more attention to our heart
rate and the true intensityversus our paces.
Okay, the other suggestion Ihave, along with heart rate, is
use RPE.
Use the new RPE, which standsfor rate of perceived exertion.
(20:25):
In the old days we use the Borgscale rate perceived exertion,
which measured from six to 20.
And it's kind of funny littlestory in that people are like
six, that's such a weird number.
It's like, well, what they didwas they figured most people
again.
It's so crazy when you reallyhear this.
But most people's resting heartrate was around 60 and they
(20:47):
were using 20 year olds.
So they said you know most wellif you're using age prediction.
Then all 20 year olds max heartrates were olds.
So they said you know most wellif you're using age prediction,
then all 20 year olds max heartrates were 200.
So they use that.
And then they took off a zeroand made it six to 20.
So six was basically rest,nothing, 20 was maximal effort.
And then they came up with allthese different corresponding
(21:08):
numbers like 12 to 16 wasmoderate, 16 to 18 was vigorous,
to hard.
I mean it's really kind ofsilly when you learn that that's
how they came up with the Borgnumbers.
But using RPE at least gotpeople thinking about how things
should feel.
But we have a better versionnow which is just basically zero
(21:29):
to 10.
Zero is you're at rest, 10 isyou're at a maximum.
Aerobic is going to besomewhere between four and six.
So if you just tell yourselfyou know, a 10 is maximum.
We have a client that warms uphere and he builds as he goes
and his final two minutes eightto minute, eight to minute 10,
he pushes a sprint.
(21:50):
So you know he might feel nearmaximum.
On that he might say, yeah, I'mat a nine or a 10.
It's like, okay, so zero, rest10.
Maximum Aerobic is going to besomewhere around four to six.
So you go okay, so if I'mrunning as hard as I can, that's
a 10.
If I really dial this back alittle bit, I should feel
(22:11):
comfortable.
I'd rather you use RPE than usePACE, because PACE is going to
throw you off.
Pretty much.
Everybody is going to overtrainif they use the same numbers in
the summer that they used in thewinter.
If you're training outside,you're just going to Now on
indoor training, like treadmillsand indoor bikes, can you
(22:33):
eventually figure out, like,what levels are equate to the
certain heart rate zones youwant to be at?
Yes, I mean you can.
I mean that's common sense.
If you've been using atreadmill over and over and you
know that, say you're in the onethirties, which for you is
aerobic, and you're at 6.0 onthe treadmill, it's like, well,
yeah, then 6.0 is probably goingto work for you.
(22:55):
But training outside you're notgoing to be able to draw those
kinds of conclusions.
So you don't necessarily haveto check it all the time indoors
, but I think you're going tohave to check it all the time
outdoors.
If you don't have a fancy watch,if you're old school and you
don't want to use all that, thenuse RPE, just four to six.
(23:16):
Tell yourself, aerobic justmeans my heart rate is elevated.
I can still talk.
I can't necessarily tell aHiggins story, if you remember
Magnum PI, but I can talk andit's doable and I don't feel
like I need to stop.
It's comfortable to an extent.
(23:37):
All right, if you just use that, I think you'll be off to a
great start on that.
You're not supposed to bekilling yourself on aerobic
intensity.
All right, don't let the tailwag the dog.
You need to wag your own tail.
Thank you for listening totoday's program.
I ask you to please follow theshow wherever you get your
(24:00):
podcasts and please selectautomatic download, because that
really helps the show.
Now I want to thank OverheadDoor of Daytona Beach, the
area's premier garage doorcompany.
They have the best product.
They have the best service.
I personally vouch for Jeff andZach Hawk, the owners.
They are great people with agreat company.
(24:22):
If you have any garage doorneeds, please give them a shout
at 386-222-3165.
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