October 27, 2025 • 30 mins
Fit, Healthy & Happy Podcast
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to There Is a Method to the Madness.
My name is Rob Maxwell, and I'man exercise physiologist and
personal trainer.
I am the owner of Maxwell'sfitness programs, and I've been
in business since 1994.
The purpose of this podcast isto get to the real deal of what
really works and mostimportantly why things work.
(00:21):
Hence the name, There is aMethod to the Madness.
Before I get to today's show, Iwant to thank Jonathan and Lynn
Gilden of the Gilden Group atRealty Pros.
They are committed to providingthe highest level of customer
service in home sales.
Why don't you give them a shoutand figure out what your home is
worth?
386-451-2412.
(00:46):
Good morning, good afternoon,good evening, everybody.
Whatever time you're listeningto this, I hope it is good.
And uh today we're gonna talkabout some like why people
struggle with dichotomy.
And especially when it comes tofood, because I still believe
(01:10):
that like food is the mostconfused in subject, or I should
say, people are the mostconfused about what to eat and
how much to eat, more than anyother fitness thing.
You know, I think for the mostpart, I think everybody knows
(01:30):
they should exercise.
You're gonna find very few,hopefully none, know people that
would say something like peopleshouldn't walk, right?
So I think everybody knows.
I mean, yeah, there still issome debate out there about the
best kind of exercise and allthat.
(01:51):
And you know, I'm not sayingthat there aren't issues with
that, meaning that some of thatinconsistency isn't a problem.
I think it is.
Like for the most part, though,I think it is worse in
nutrition.
All right.
So basically, what I'm leadingyou up to here is to talk about
a saying that I like to say in alot of things, and that is two
(02:16):
things can be true at the sametime.
And I really do think for somereason we as human beings really
seem to struggle with that.
You know, we like to think thateverything is totally black or
white, or you know, everythingis um the way you've been taught
(02:39):
the world is, and and anythingthat uh, you know, gets in the
way of that kind of thinkingcreates some kind of distress
and anxiety.
So I want to talk about thatwhen it comes to food, because
two things can be true at thesame time.
And I'm going to give you a lotof examples of why this is true
(03:00):
and how we kind of have to learnto figure out what works for us.
Take the science which is outthere and figure out what works
for us.
But before I get to that, let metalk just very briefly about
some of the uh emotional andpsychological characteristics
(03:22):
that keep people from thinkingthat way, that keep people kind
of in a dichotomous way ofthinking, you know, that
everything is opposed, you know,so it's my way or the highway.
I'm gonna be plant-based, or I'mgonna be a carnivore.
I'm going to be a highcarbohydrate guy, or I'm gonna
go keto.
(03:44):
I'm gonna go Atkins or I'm gonnago vegan.
And have you ever noticed thatthe I mean, those diets, those
that I just mentioned, or thosethree styles of eating, you
couldn't get further apart onthose opposites, right?
I mean, you just can't.
They are, you know, one way orthe other.
(04:06):
And have you ever noticed thepeople that tend to go in one
direction or the other tend togo in the other direction later?
Have you ever noticed that?
It's almost like the people whoare all over keto used to be all
over low or no fat.
(04:27):
I mean, have you noticed thatbefore?
Or, you know, sometimes you seeit a little bit less with
veganism and vegetarianismbecause, and I'm gonna get into
that because a lot of times thathas different factors other than
um physical health andnutrition.
But have you ever noticed thatpeople are either all in on one
(04:48):
diet, then they're all in onanother, and that diet can be
like totally contradictory tothe other one, right?
So there tends to be apersonality type that really
tends to gravitate towards thateither or thinking.
And the reason is is because thebody feels safer when there is
(05:12):
like less uncertainty.
So the body feels safer.
So there's almost a reduction,physiologically speaking, in
anxiety and things like thatwhen there is a clear path.
And for some reason, and that'sthe kind of the funny part about
all this, two things can be trueat the same time.
(05:32):
You can have a clear path andyou know still understand that
it's a clear path for you.
I mean, you can still have aclear path, you can get that
once you understand maybe, andthat's the main part of this
podcast, maybe why you wereconfused as to why two things in
(05:54):
a certain situation can be trueat the same time.
So there is a physical stressreduction when people feel like
they are not confused.
Another thing is is so themental clarity feels safe in the
mind.
You don't have to think aboutdecision making as much.
Don't have to think about ifyou're making the right call.
(06:17):
If you have somebody out theresaying, you know, it's just
this.
It's just, you gotta be acarnivore.
Like you just can't, you know,human beings were not made to
like eat processed carbohydratesor, you know, anything in a box
or and all that.
And you you're like going, oh,okay, I figured it out.
(06:37):
Like that's it, you know.
Or you can go the completeopposite direction.
Oh, you know, human beingsaren't supposed to ever eat any
fat or any animal productsbecause we're just supposed to
eat off the ground.
Oh, okay, you know, I figured itout.
I don't have to think aboutthis.
Like that, you know, um, Philiptold me that.
Philip said, you know, this isthe way, and Philip knows,
(07:00):
right?
And, you know, we see wherehuman nature has a tendency to
get itself in trouble a lot whenwe take into that way of
thinking when we're listening topeople.
Because, man, you better hope tohell they're right, right?
Because if they're not, it'slike, uh-oh, you know, blind
leading the blind.
I just followed this guy downthe path and uh he was wrong.
(07:23):
Oh man.
And, you know, that's theproblem with making people into
idols, so to say.
Like we have to do our ownresearch.
My program has always been, whenI say my program, I mean my
personal training programs,because I don't have a food
program I give people, I givepeople advice, I give myself
advice.
I don't think there is aprogram.
(07:45):
I think there is what is bestfor you.
And I've been hopefully tryingto get that across to everybody
for years.
So, but my my business programhas, you know, always been
science-based to say, well,well, let's look at what the
science says.
Let's let's talk about thissituation for you, and let's see
what we can come up with onthere.
(08:07):
Um, another thing that kind ofkeeps people in that dichotomous
thinking is, you know, theretends to be stronger
relationships forms formed amonglike tribes.
And if you ever notice, like um,you know, not not to take shots
at CrossFit or anything, becauseyou know, I got friends that do
it, and it's uh it's a fun wayfor them to work out.
(08:27):
I, you know, have no problemwith it.
I think there's a lot of goodways to work out.
Um, some people I would neversend there to do, but you know,
whatever.
I'm just trying to say that Idon't have a problem with
CrossFit because I like I said,I'll just give you a brief
example with that.
Like two things can be true atthe same time.
It's like so it can be a way toget in shape, true.
(08:50):
And it can be a way that peoplefrequently get hurt, also true.
So, like those are things wejust have to kind of like learn
to accept.
But another thing people do isthey like to feel like they're
in a tribe.
So when people are like eating acertain way, you know, they they
tend to feel like, yeah, this ispart of what the group does.
(09:13):
This is groupthink at its best.
And CrossFit tends to really um,you know, get people there, get
people involved who have atendency to fall into that kind
of cultish thinking a littlebit.
And, you know, they were very,they still are, but they were
extremely paleo when they firstcame out.
(09:33):
It was like, you know, that wasthe CrossFit way, you know,
don't eat any kind of likeprocessed carbohydrates, you
know.
They were big in the sendingpeople to the um the whole 30 or
whatever it's called, you know,um, where you only eat like
anything out of the ground, likenothing processed for 30 days.
I think it was called WholeFoods 30 or something like that.
(09:54):
But like they would lead peopleto that because that was just
part of their big thing.
So people would sign up, they'dstart doing CrossFit courses,
and then the next thing youknow, you know, the the leaders
of the pack, so to say, aresaying things like, um, well, we
don't eat this, we don't eatthat.
Let me give you somesuggestions.
So there is some like um, youknow, relationship building that
(10:19):
goes with that, some safety innumbers type of thing.
So that's another reason whypeople tend to fall into that
trap of dichotomous thinking.
All right.
So there's a reason.
I'm I'm basically made the case.
There's a reason why people havea hard time believing that two
things can be true at the sametime.
But I do think like the mostevolved, the most mature people
(10:42):
tend to understand that conceptand realize like two things can
be true at the same time.
Some things could be good andthen some things could be bad.
Like two things can be true atthe same time.
So let's look at some of thesethings that go on.
Let's start with that whole, youknow, plant-based thing.
(11:05):
Um, so can it be true that likeeating from the earth, so to
say, without eating, say, anyanimal product?
So whether you go likeplant-based or veganism or a
form of vegetarian, is it true?
Is there any research that backsthat that is a good physical way
(11:27):
to get through things with yournutrition?
Of course.
I mean, yeah, I mean, we prettymuch can get all of our
nutrients if we never ate meat.
We could.
Does that mean it's not hard?
No.
At the same time, it's sometimesdifficult to get all of our
protein needs that we need.
(11:48):
It is difficult for people toget their iron if they're not
eating red meat.
Um, so you know, it's true.
Can you do it?
Yeah.
Is it best?
I don't know.
Is it best for you?
I mean, for me, I'm mostlyplant-based.
Not entirely, no, not vegan.
Not even really vegetarian, butmostly plant-based.
(12:10):
I'd say the majority of my foodscome from plants, not animal
products.
The majority, I would say, ofthat.
Now, for me, it's mostly becauseof, say, ethical reasons.
So, and that's me.
That's that's my personalchoice.
Like, I'm not a fan of factoryfarms.
(12:30):
Like, I'm not a fan of that.
Like, for me, that's just, Idon't believe in that
whatsoever.
That's just my opinion, right?
So for me, it's mostly that.
Um, you know, like I'm not oneof those that thinks eating all
animal is bad.
No, it's like, you know, I dobelieve in, you know, some of
the natural um selection ofthings, of course.
(12:54):
But for me, factory farming'sbad.
So what I try to do is I try tofollow, you know, the moral
minimum, so to say.
So I'll say, so for me, like I'mgonna try to stay away from like
obvious factory farms.
Like for me, that's the reason.
So does that mean it's best?
No, it means it's the best forme because I don't want to be in
(13:15):
a quandary of guilt andthinking, oh, I'm just eating
this to satisfy my my hungerneeds or whatever, when I know
there's plenty of ways to dothat.
But like I'm fortunate because Ireally know, I mean, pretty much
everything there is to knowabout food that I need to know.
And so, like, I know how to getthe protein I need, I know how
to get the carbs I need, youknow, I know the pros and cons
(13:37):
of say eating too much saturatedfat and eating trans fats, you
know, and I know the the thecons of not getting enough
protein.
So like I know these things, soI know how to do it.
So for me, it's kind of easy todo that, right?
But but two things can be trueat the same time on this.
So you can be plant-based andyou could also be lacking your
(14:02):
protein.
I know, you know, people arelike, well, you can get all your
protein from vegetable sources.
Yes, if you really are smartabout it, like you know, not
like you gotta have to have anIQ of 150.
Well, what I mean is you have todo your work, you know, and you
can figure out what plantproducts have the most protein
in them.
(14:22):
For example, quinoa, you know,peas, things like that, or you
can combine certain nuts withcertain grains to get it.
So if you do your diligence,then you are going to be able to
do it.
But if you don't, you'reprobably gonna be malnourished
in some ways, you know, probablylacking some protein and some
iron.
So two things can be true at thesame time on that.
(14:46):
All right.
So, you know, this is gonna betrue across the board with
everything we want to pick.
Let's talk a little bit abouthigh carb, low carb, okay?
And this is probably one of thebiggest like myths out there,
like one of the biggest thingsthat like people want to go
totally all in on one way or theother.
(15:07):
And I think it's because um it'shard to restrict carbohydrates
sometimes, but two things can betrue at the same time.
Like, so eating too manycarbohydrates is going to make
you fat.
Okay, it just is.
But so is eating too much fat,eating too much protein, eating
(15:29):
too many calories.
And when I say too many too toomuch or too many, it's like,
well, what do you mean, Rob?
Like, is there a limit?
Yeah, there's a limit for you.
So carbohydrates are meant toprovide energy.
So if you have eaten your fillof carbohydrates and you have
used up your or haven't used upyour carbohydrates, and you're
(15:51):
gonna now use them for energy.
Well, they're gonna do theirjob, and that's what you want.
But if you've taken in more thanyou need, and how do you know?
And I think that's why peoplelike that dichotomy of thinking.
I think that's why, becauselike, well, I don't want to have
to think about it then.
I just won't eat any.
It's like, okay, well, nowyou're gonna be unhealthy
because now you're not gonnahave the energy for your
(16:13):
workout, so you're gonna losemuscle.
So not only will you not gainmuscle, or you won't have any
energy, and you'll be in brainfog all the time, because the
only fuel your brain can use isglucose.
So if you don't have enoughglucose, you're walking around
in a brain fog all the time.
So that's not good.
So not only are you gonna havebrain fog, not only are you not
(16:34):
gonna gain muscle, but you'realso gonna lose muscle because
there's such a thing asgluconeogenesis.
And what that means is that yourbody will make carbohydrates out
of muscle tissue.
It'll break it down because yourorgans, namely your brain, need
glucose.
So it will break it down.
So it'll take your heart earnedmuscle mass and it'll break it
(16:55):
down, and you won't have musclemass left.
All right.
So if you don't eat enough,that's what's gonna happen.
If you eat too many, you'regonna get fat.
Too many for you.
Two things can be true at thesame time.
So we have to learn.
Well, I don't need to be on alike, what is a low carb diet?
(17:17):
What is a medium carb diet?
What is a high carb diet?
I mean, so much of this dependson your body weight.
So when people are throwinggrams out there, that's totally
just nonsense.
Like you don't know how manygrams because everybody's
different.
You take somebody like ShaquilleO'Neal, who is way over 300
pounds, and I guarantee you heneeds way more grams of
(17:41):
carbohydrates than you and I do.
All right.
So if we're to say to him, well,we're gonna keep it to 300,
okay, I think 300 grams, that'snot bad.
Well, that's only 1200 caloriesof carbohydrates for Shaq.
Is that enough?
I'd say probably not.
Probably not even close.
And if he's highly active, noteven remotely close.
So we can't just throw numbersout there.
(18:02):
It's too many or too little foryou.
And that's where people reallydo get into trouble because then
they have to count.
Then they have to pay attention.
Now, when I say count, I meanthere's been centuries that have
gone by where, you know, peoplehave not been overly fixated on
(18:24):
counting grams of carbohydrates,right?
I mean, obviously, this is apretty new tool to be able to
use to figure all this stuffout.
You know, you go back 30 years,even looking it up in the index
of a book, that's still a tool.
So obviously, man has workedwalked the earth for years
without this kind of problem.
But people, I think, were alittle bit better at naturally
(18:45):
knowing back then.
And I think the other side ofthis is that carbohydrates and
all foods really, but it's soeasy to eat in large numbers
that compared to the old days,say, you know, like you're gonna
get your carbs, you know, fromfrom plant products, you know,
and and if if you were aroundwhen, you know, they're making
natural breads or whatever, thattakes work to do.
(19:07):
So you're like, you're probablynot overeating them because it
takes work to produce them.
And now everything is is reallymixed with sugar, salt, and fat,
and it's just easier to consumeso much in such a short period
of time.
So part of it's a problem.
So back in the old days whenpeople weren't tracking, they
figured it out a little betterbecause they probably weren't in
(19:31):
as dire straits, consuming asmuch.
But you don't necessarily haveto track everything nowadays,
but you do have to figure outlike what is your limit.
And if you don't, well, then youknow why you're putting on
weight, maybe when you knowyou're trying to figure it out.
(19:53):
You you're like, well, you know,obviously I have consumed too
much of something.
So there has to be some way youknow how much you're consuming.
And I do think that payingattention to that.
Uh I mean, logging is great.
I think logging is what we allshould do until we figure it out
for sure.
But what I'm saying is your bodyalso does a pretty good job if
(20:16):
you're good at paying attentionto your body.
So, like, if you've beenovereating a certain food and
you notice yourself gaining alittle weight, well, that's your
clue right there.
Does that mean that you shouldknock that food out entirely?
No, it means that you probablyhave to figure out a better way
to regulate it.
And I get it, that's hard.
(20:36):
And that goes back to that earlyon when I was talking about in
the beginning of the podcast,like why people tend to go
towards safety, because thenthey don't have to make
decisions.
Then they can go, well, youknow, I'm just not gonna eat it.
It's like, well, okay, but twothings can be true at the same
time.
So now you might be missing outon a food that's really good for
you.
And where we really get intotrouble is when people have
(20:58):
different forms of, say, eatingdisorders or disordered eating.
Then it becomes the food'salmost like a drug.
Well, then, you know, that isalso one of those two things can
be true at the same time.
You could say, Well, Rob, yousaid there was nothing wrong
with like having some sourdoughbread.
I mean, you said it was healthyfood.
(21:19):
I'm like, well, yeah, of courseit's a healthy food.
But then you just told Jane overthere she shouldn't eat it.
And I'm like, okay, because youknow, Jane has an obsession with
sourdough bread.
And once she eats a slice, sheeats 10.
So for her, that's not gonnawork.
So sourdough bread can beextremely healthy and good for
you.
And a great food, any bread oranything else eaten in
(21:42):
overabundance is gonna make usgain weight.
That's true.
I've already established that.
But for this person, if she eatsit, she's gonna eat 10.
So for her, she probablyshouldn't eat it.
And that's where like we reallyneed to understand that like
there are so many truths for usthat we have to pay attention
to.
And, you know, that's alwaysbeen one of the big reasons I
(22:04):
shy away from giving people foodplans and eating plans, because
ultimately they don't work.
You know, nobody had to evergive me an eating plan or a food
plan.
You know, I mean, the closest itever got was before I was
educated and I was doing myfirst bodybuilding show.
Like I was falling back on whatthis one guy was doing for
(22:26):
contest prep for a show, youknow, and uh, but what's funny
is I still like even looked atall that.
Like I was looking at who Iagreed with the most, and then I
went with this one guy.
So, like that, yeah, I mean,that's that's the closest I've
ever come.
But other than that, it's kindof like, well, I have to figure
this out, you know.
Like, I know like I love chipsand salsa, right?
(22:49):
I mean, god dang, I like it,right?
Sit down and like I could eat,and I just said like like four
times, all right.
So I think I got my uh quota inon likes.
I could sit down and eat, Idon't know, three, four baskets
of it, right?
Ah, I did it again.
So does that mean chips andsalsa are bad?
(23:09):
No.
It means for me, if I'm notgonna control it and I don't
really get a weight problem oranything, but it doesn't mean
that I wouldn't go home and feellike my stomach's bloated and I
ate all that crap, it's stillnot good for me.
So it doesn't mean it's bad.
It means like for me, that'ssomething I might overdo.
So maybe I should just keep thatto rare occasions, right?
(23:32):
So two things can be true at thesame time, and we have to
understand that.
And I'm stressing this becausetoo often people like they want
the fit way to eat.
Like, well, what's the fit wayto eat?
Well, you know, the fit way toeat is we have to eat within our
means.
We have to eat as close as wecan to the exact number of
calories we need for our goals,whether it be to maintain our
(23:55):
weight, gain weight, or loseweight.
We have to get as close as wecan to that every day, which I
100% believe if people payattention, they will learn a
very good self-monitoring systemthat will work for that, right?
And then being able to use thedifferent tools that are out
there to help with that.
Another thing is we have to getin all of our nutrients.
(24:15):
We have essential nutrients wehave to take in.
So essential means notimportant, it does, but that's
in another definition.
Essential in this case meansyour body can't produce it.
So you have to take it in fromthe outside.
So our body needs essentialmacronutrients and essential
micronutrients.
Without the proper balance ofthose two things, we cannot be
(24:39):
maximized in our health.
So the essential macronutrientsare carbs, protein, water, and
fat.
Those are the big four essentialmacronutrients.
They're the only four.
Okay, those are themacronutrients.
We need to eat all of them anddrink that in the right balance
(25:00):
for us based on our conditions.
We also need essentialmicronutrients.
Micronutrients are vitamins andminerals.
If we don't get all of ourvitamins and minerals, we will
not have ideal health.
So we need to make sure we'reeating for that.
So, really, the food rules arethat simple.
We need to eat within our means,calorically speaking, and we
(25:24):
need to make sure we're eating abalanced diet of all our
essential nutrients.
From there, there are so manyoptions and ways out there to
make work for you.
Like you have to know yourself.
In my book, You Can't Outrun aPoor Diet, I talk about some of
the major behavioral strategiesthat help because I just outline
(25:45):
the physiological food benefitsto all this.
So, like that's, you know,that's kind of simple.
The hard part is putting it intoaction, and that's where the
rules come in.
Like maybe don't eat dessert anddon't eat after six, you know,
things like that.
Because we are going to thenwork within what we use if we
(26:05):
have more rules attached to themfor us, but the rules are for us
because everybody is different.
And that gets back to why I saidI don't like writing food plants
because everybody's different.
I like it a lot better whenpeople just say, Hey, I've been
doing this.
What do you think of this?
And I'll ask them a fewquestions and I'll say, Oh,
okay.
So, yeah, this sounds good.
(26:26):
I would watch that though atthat time of day, you know, or
maybe you need to consume alittle more of this after your
workout, or maybe you you shouldeat in the morning, whatever.
Based on what they're doing, Ican give empirical evidence on
what I think they need to do.
One more point on this, what thetwo things can be true at the
same time.
So it is absolutely true that ahigh carb diet gives you more
(26:50):
energy and is essential forsomebody when I say high, high
for you.
So higher than you would take inif you weren't sedentary.
Okay.
So that means that you're takingin the amount of carbohydrates
to sustain your exercise orfitness program.
All right.
That's what I mean by high.
So it is absolutely true that todo that, you're going to
maximize your fitness and giveyourself what you need.
(27:11):
It's also true that the morecarbs you take in, you do spike
your insulin.
So then if you do have, like ifyou have a tendency towards
prediabetes or a tendencytowards having blood sugar
issues high or low, it's alsotrue that by doing that, you are
getting an influx of insulininto your system.
(27:31):
And again, only you and yourdoctor know your labs and know
how you like are affected byinsulin.
So both can be true.
Like, yes, a higher carbohydratefor your energy level absolutely
make you more fit.
And it could also be giving youtoo much insulin based on your
blood work.
And only you know that.
Like for me, I don't have issueswith that.
Like I can eat too many of them,you know, and all of a sudden
(27:55):
kind of be in a little bit of abrain coma, right?
Because it's like, oh, that wastoo much carbs and that produced
too much insulin.
But I don't have likephysiological medical issues
with that.
I tend not to really do thatanyway.
I tend to eat pretty, you know,I eat a lot of food by, you
know, pretty controlled and Ispread it out throughout the day
and things like that.
So like all these can be true atthe same time.
(28:16):
All right.
So I guess I leave you with thisadvice like, do your own
research, figure out what worksfor you.
Don't follow a zealot on dietrules.
Don't follow a zealot on how toeat.
I don't care if it's freaking,you know, some of these doctors
of the past, like Dr.
Oz, you know, I think everybodyknows he kind of turned out to
(28:37):
be a Looney Tune in ways, nooffense to anybody, but you
know, or others that are new,you don't need to do that.
You know, you need to do yourown research.
Fall back a lot on common senseand remember two things can be
true at the same time.
And the ultimate truth is whatis absolutely true for you.
And you'll know in what happenswhen you eat and what happens
(29:01):
with your fitness.
Okay?
The body won't lie.
Take care.
Two things can be true at thesame time.
Thank you for listening totoday's program.
I ask you to please follow theshow wherever you get your
podcasts, and please selectautomatic download because that
really helps the show.
(29:21):
Now I want to thank OverheadDoor of Daytona Beach, the
area's premier garage doorcompany.
They have the best product, theyhave the best service.
I personally vouch for Jeff andZach Hawk, the owners.
They are great people with agreat company.
If you have any garage doorneeds, please give them a shout
(29:41):
at 386 222 3165.
Welcome to There Is a Method to the Madness.
My name is Rob Maxwell, and I'man exercise physiologist and
personal trainer.
I am the owner of Maxwell'sfitness programs, and I've been
in business since 1994.
The purpose of this podcast isto get to the real deal of what
really works and mostimportantly why things work.
(00:21):
Hence the name, There is aMethod to the Madness.
Before I get to today's show, Iwant to thank Jonathan and Lynn
Gilden of the Gilden Group atRealty Pros.
They are committed to providingthe highest level of customer
service in home sales.
Why don't you give them a shoutand figure out what your home is
worth?
386-451-2412.
(00:46):
Good morning, good afternoon,good evening, everybody.
Whatever time you're listeningto this, I hope it is good.
And uh today we're gonna talkabout some like why people
struggle with dichotomy.
And especially when it comes tofood, because I still believe
(01:10):
that like food is the mostconfused in subject, or I should
say, people are the mostconfused about what to eat and
how much to eat, more than anyother fitness thing.
You know, I think for the mostpart, I think everybody knows
(01:30):
they should exercise.
You're gonna find very few,hopefully none, know people that
would say something like peopleshouldn't walk, right?
So I think everybody knows.
I mean, yeah, there still issome debate out there about the
best kind of exercise and allthat.
(01:51):
And you know, I'm not sayingthat there aren't issues with
that, meaning that some of thatinconsistency isn't a problem.
I think it is.
Like for the most part, though,I think it is worse in
nutrition.
All right.
So basically, what I'm leadingyou up to here is to talk about
a saying that I like to say in alot of things, and that is two
(02:16):
things can be true at the sametime.
And I really do think for somereason we as human beings really
seem to struggle with that.
You know, we like to think thateverything is totally black or
white, or you know, everythingis um the way you've been taught
(02:39):
the world is, and and anythingthat uh, you know, gets in the
way of that kind of thinkingcreates some kind of distress
and anxiety.
So I want to talk about thatwhen it comes to food, because
two things can be true at thesame time.
And I'm going to give you a lotof examples of why this is true
(03:00):
and how we kind of have to learnto figure out what works for us.
Take the science which is outthere and figure out what works
for us.
But before I get to that, let metalk just very briefly about
some of the uh emotional andpsychological characteristics
(03:22):
that keep people from thinkingthat way, that keep people kind
of in a dichotomous way ofthinking, you know, that
everything is opposed, you know,so it's my way or the highway.
I'm gonna be plant-based, or I'mgonna be a carnivore.
I'm going to be a highcarbohydrate guy, or I'm gonna
go keto.
(03:44):
I'm gonna go Atkins or I'm gonnago vegan.
And have you ever noticed thatthe I mean, those diets, those
that I just mentioned, or thosethree styles of eating, you
couldn't get further apart onthose opposites, right?
I mean, you just can't.
They are, you know, one way orthe other.
(04:06):
And have you ever noticed thepeople that tend to go in one
direction or the other tend togo in the other direction later?
Have you ever noticed that?
It's almost like the people whoare all over keto used to be all
over low or no fat.
(04:27):
I mean, have you noticed thatbefore?
Or, you know, sometimes you seeit a little bit less with
veganism and vegetarianismbecause, and I'm gonna get into
that because a lot of times thathas different factors other than
um physical health andnutrition.
But have you ever noticed thatpeople are either all in on one
(04:48):
diet, then they're all in onanother, and that diet can be
like totally contradictory tothe other one, right?
So there tends to be apersonality type that really
tends to gravitate towards thateither or thinking.
And the reason is is because thebody feels safer when there is
(05:12):
like less uncertainty.
So the body feels safer.
So there's almost a reduction,physiologically speaking, in
anxiety and things like thatwhen there is a clear path.
And for some reason, and that'sthe kind of the funny part about
all this, two things can be trueat the same time.
(05:32):
You can have a clear path andyou know still understand that
it's a clear path for you.
I mean, you can still have aclear path, you can get that
once you understand maybe, andthat's the main part of this
podcast, maybe why you wereconfused as to why two things in
(05:54):
a certain situation can be trueat the same time.
So there is a physical stressreduction when people feel like
they are not confused.
Another thing is is so themental clarity feels safe in the
mind.
You don't have to think aboutdecision making as much.
Don't have to think about ifyou're making the right call.
(06:17):
If you have somebody out theresaying, you know, it's just
this.
It's just, you gotta be acarnivore.
Like you just can't, you know,human beings were not made to
like eat processed carbohydratesor, you know, anything in a box
or and all that.
And you you're like going, oh,okay, I figured it out.
(06:37):
Like that's it, you know.
Or you can go the completeopposite direction.
Oh, you know, human beingsaren't supposed to ever eat any
fat or any animal productsbecause we're just supposed to
eat off the ground.
Oh, okay, you know, I figured itout.
I don't have to think aboutthis.
Like that, you know, um, Philiptold me that.
Philip said, you know, this isthe way, and Philip knows,
(07:00):
right?
And, you know, we see wherehuman nature has a tendency to
get itself in trouble a lot whenwe take into that way of
thinking when we're listening topeople.
Because, man, you better hope tohell they're right, right?
Because if they're not, it'slike, uh-oh, you know, blind
leading the blind.
I just followed this guy downthe path and uh he was wrong.
(07:23):
Oh man.
And, you know, that's theproblem with making people into
idols, so to say.
Like we have to do our ownresearch.
My program has always been, whenI say my program, I mean my
personal training programs,because I don't have a food
program I give people, I givepeople advice, I give myself
advice.
I don't think there is aprogram.
(07:45):
I think there is what is bestfor you.
And I've been hopefully tryingto get that across to everybody
for years.
So, but my my business programhas, you know, always been
science-based to say, well,well, let's look at what the
science says.
Let's let's talk about thissituation for you, and let's see
what we can come up with onthere.
(08:07):
Um, another thing that kind ofkeeps people in that dichotomous
thinking is, you know, theretends to be stronger
relationships forms formed amonglike tribes.
And if you ever notice, like um,you know, not not to take shots
at CrossFit or anything, becauseyou know, I got friends that do
it, and it's uh it's a fun wayfor them to work out.
(08:27):
I, you know, have no problemwith it.
I think there's a lot of goodways to work out.
Um, some people I would neversend there to do, but you know,
whatever.
I'm just trying to say that Idon't have a problem with
CrossFit because I like I said,I'll just give you a brief
example with that.
Like two things can be true atthe same time.
It's like so it can be a way toget in shape, true.
(08:50):
And it can be a way that peoplefrequently get hurt, also true.
So, like those are things wejust have to kind of like learn
to accept.
But another thing people do isthey like to feel like they're
in a tribe.
So when people are like eating acertain way, you know, they they
tend to feel like, yeah, this ispart of what the group does.
(09:13):
This is groupthink at its best.
And CrossFit tends to really um,you know, get people there, get
people involved who have atendency to fall into that kind
of cultish thinking a littlebit.
And, you know, they were very,they still are, but they were
extremely paleo when they firstcame out.
(09:33):
It was like, you know, that wasthe CrossFit way, you know,
don't eat any kind of likeprocessed carbohydrates, you
know.
They were big in the sendingpeople to the um the whole 30 or
whatever it's called, you know,um, where you only eat like
anything out of the ground, likenothing processed for 30 days.
I think it was called WholeFoods 30 or something like that.
(09:54):
But like they would lead peopleto that because that was just
part of their big thing.
So people would sign up, they'dstart doing CrossFit courses,
and then the next thing youknow, you know, the the leaders
of the pack, so to say, aresaying things like, um, well, we
don't eat this, we don't eatthat.
Let me give you somesuggestions.
So there is some like um, youknow, relationship building that
(10:19):
goes with that, some safety innumbers type of thing.
So that's another reason whypeople tend to fall into that
trap of dichotomous thinking.
All right.
So there's a reason.
I'm I'm basically made the case.
There's a reason why people havea hard time believing that two
things can be true at the sametime.
But I do think like the mostevolved, the most mature people
(10:42):
tend to understand that conceptand realize like two things can
be true at the same time.
Some things could be good andthen some things could be bad.
Like two things can be true atthe same time.
So let's look at some of thesethings that go on.
Let's start with that whole, youknow, plant-based thing.
(11:05):
Um, so can it be true that likeeating from the earth, so to
say, without eating, say, anyanimal product?
So whether you go likeplant-based or veganism or a
form of vegetarian, is it true?
Is there any research that backsthat that is a good physical way
(11:27):
to get through things with yournutrition?
Of course.
I mean, yeah, I mean, we prettymuch can get all of our
nutrients if we never ate meat.
We could.
Does that mean it's not hard?
No.
At the same time, it's sometimesdifficult to get all of our
protein needs that we need.
(11:48):
It is difficult for people toget their iron if they're not
eating red meat.
Um, so you know, it's true.
Can you do it?
Yeah.
Is it best?
I don't know.
Is it best for you?
I mean, for me, I'm mostlyplant-based.
Not entirely, no, not vegan.
Not even really vegetarian, butmostly plant-based.
(12:10):
I'd say the majority of my foodscome from plants, not animal
products.
The majority, I would say, ofthat.
Now, for me, it's mostly becauseof, say, ethical reasons.
So, and that's me.
That's that's my personalchoice.
Like, I'm not a fan of factoryfarms.
(12:30):
Like, I'm not a fan of that.
Like, for me, that's just, Idon't believe in that
whatsoever.
That's just my opinion, right?
So for me, it's mostly that.
Um, you know, like I'm not oneof those that thinks eating all
animal is bad.
No, it's like, you know, I dobelieve in, you know, some of
the natural um selection ofthings, of course.
(12:54):
But for me, factory farming'sbad.
So what I try to do is I try tofollow, you know, the moral
minimum, so to say.
So I'll say, so for me, like I'mgonna try to stay away from like
obvious factory farms.
Like for me, that's the reason.
So does that mean it's best?
No, it means it's the best forme because I don't want to be in
(13:15):
a quandary of guilt andthinking, oh, I'm just eating
this to satisfy my my hungerneeds or whatever, when I know
there's plenty of ways to dothat.
But like I'm fortunate because Ireally know, I mean, pretty much
everything there is to knowabout food that I need to know.
And so, like, I know how to getthe protein I need, I know how
to get the carbs I need, youknow, I know the pros and cons
(13:37):
of say eating too much saturatedfat and eating trans fats, you
know, and I know the the thecons of not getting enough
protein.
So like I know these things, soI know how to do it.
So for me, it's kind of easy todo that, right?
But but two things can be trueat the same time on this.
So you can be plant-based andyou could also be lacking your
(14:02):
protein.
I know, you know, people arelike, well, you can get all your
protein from vegetable sources.
Yes, if you really are smartabout it, like you know, not
like you gotta have to have anIQ of 150.
Well, what I mean is you have todo your work, you know, and you
can figure out what plantproducts have the most protein
in them.
(14:22):
For example, quinoa, you know,peas, things like that, or you
can combine certain nuts withcertain grains to get it.
So if you do your diligence,then you are going to be able to
do it.
But if you don't, you'reprobably gonna be malnourished
in some ways, you know, probablylacking some protein and some
iron.
So two things can be true at thesame time on that.
(14:46):
All right.
So, you know, this is gonna betrue across the board with
everything we want to pick.
Let's talk a little bit abouthigh carb, low carb, okay?
And this is probably one of thebiggest like myths out there,
like one of the biggest thingsthat like people want to go
totally all in on one way or theother.
(15:07):
And I think it's because um it'shard to restrict carbohydrates
sometimes, but two things can betrue at the same time.
Like, so eating too manycarbohydrates is going to make
you fat.
Okay, it just is.
But so is eating too much fat,eating too much protein, eating
(15:29):
too many calories.
And when I say too many too toomuch or too many, it's like,
well, what do you mean, Rob?
Like, is there a limit?
Yeah, there's a limit for you.
So carbohydrates are meant toprovide energy.
So if you have eaten your fillof carbohydrates and you have
used up your or haven't used upyour carbohydrates, and you're
(15:51):
gonna now use them for energy.
Well, they're gonna do theirjob, and that's what you want.
But if you've taken in more thanyou need, and how do you know?
And I think that's why peoplelike that dichotomy of thinking.
I think that's why, becauselike, well, I don't want to have
to think about it then.
I just won't eat any.
It's like, okay, well, nowyou're gonna be unhealthy
because now you're not gonnahave the energy for your
(16:13):
workout, so you're gonna losemuscle.
So not only will you not gainmuscle, or you won't have any
energy, and you'll be in brainfog all the time, because the
only fuel your brain can use isglucose.
So if you don't have enoughglucose, you're walking around
in a brain fog all the time.
So that's not good.
So not only are you gonna havebrain fog, not only are you not
(16:34):
gonna gain muscle, but you'realso gonna lose muscle because
there's such a thing asgluconeogenesis.
And what that means is that yourbody will make carbohydrates out
of muscle tissue.
It'll break it down because yourorgans, namely your brain, need
glucose.
So it will break it down.
So it'll take your heart earnedmuscle mass and it'll break it
(16:55):
down, and you won't have musclemass left.
All right.
So if you don't eat enough,that's what's gonna happen.
If you eat too many, you'regonna get fat.
Too many for you.
Two things can be true at thesame time.
So we have to learn.
Well, I don't need to be on alike, what is a low carb diet?
(17:17):
What is a medium carb diet?
What is a high carb diet?
I mean, so much of this dependson your body weight.
So when people are throwinggrams out there, that's totally
just nonsense.
Like you don't know how manygrams because everybody's
different.
You take somebody like ShaquilleO'Neal, who is way over 300
pounds, and I guarantee you heneeds way more grams of
(17:41):
carbohydrates than you and I do.
All right.
So if we're to say to him, well,we're gonna keep it to 300,
okay, I think 300 grams, that'snot bad.
Well, that's only 1200 caloriesof carbohydrates for Shaq.
Is that enough?
I'd say probably not.
Probably not even close.
And if he's highly active, noteven remotely close.
So we can't just throw numbersout there.
(18:02):
It's too many or too little foryou.
And that's where people reallydo get into trouble because then
they have to count.
Then they have to pay attention.
Now, when I say count, I meanthere's been centuries that have
gone by where, you know, peoplehave not been overly fixated on
(18:24):
counting grams of carbohydrates,right?
I mean, obviously, this is apretty new tool to be able to
use to figure all this stuffout.
You know, you go back 30 years,even looking it up in the index
of a book, that's still a tool.
So obviously, man has workedwalked the earth for years
without this kind of problem.
But people, I think, were alittle bit better at naturally
(18:45):
knowing back then.
And I think the other side ofthis is that carbohydrates and
all foods really, but it's soeasy to eat in large numbers
that compared to the old days,say, you know, like you're gonna
get your carbs, you know, fromfrom plant products, you know,
and and if if you were aroundwhen, you know, they're making
natural breads or whatever, thattakes work to do.
(19:07):
So you're like, you're probablynot overeating them because it
takes work to produce them.
And now everything is is reallymixed with sugar, salt, and fat,
and it's just easier to consumeso much in such a short period
of time.
So part of it's a problem.
So back in the old days whenpeople weren't tracking, they
figured it out a little betterbecause they probably weren't in
(19:31):
as dire straits, consuming asmuch.
But you don't necessarily haveto track everything nowadays,
but you do have to figure outlike what is your limit.
And if you don't, well, then youknow why you're putting on
weight, maybe when you knowyou're trying to figure it out.
(19:53):
You you're like, well, you know,obviously I have consumed too
much of something.
So there has to be some way youknow how much you're consuming.
And I do think that payingattention to that.
Uh I mean, logging is great.
I think logging is what we allshould do until we figure it out
for sure.
But what I'm saying is your bodyalso does a pretty good job if
(20:16):
you're good at paying attentionto your body.
So, like, if you've beenovereating a certain food and
you notice yourself gaining alittle weight, well, that's your
clue right there.
Does that mean that you shouldknock that food out entirely?
No, it means that you probablyhave to figure out a better way
to regulate it.
And I get it, that's hard.
(20:36):
And that goes back to that earlyon when I was talking about in
the beginning of the podcast,like why people tend to go
towards safety, because thenthey don't have to make
decisions.
Then they can go, well, youknow, I'm just not gonna eat it.
It's like, well, okay, but twothings can be true at the same
time.
So now you might be missing outon a food that's really good for
you.
And where we really get intotrouble is when people have
(20:58):
different forms of, say, eatingdisorders or disordered eating.
Then it becomes the food'salmost like a drug.
Well, then, you know, that isalso one of those two things can
be true at the same time.
You could say, Well, Rob, yousaid there was nothing wrong
with like having some sourdoughbread.
I mean, you said it was healthyfood.
(21:19):
I'm like, well, yeah, of courseit's a healthy food.
But then you just told Jane overthere she shouldn't eat it.
And I'm like, okay, because youknow, Jane has an obsession with
sourdough bread.
And once she eats a slice, sheeats 10.
So for her, that's not gonnawork.
So sourdough bread can beextremely healthy and good for
you.
And a great food, any bread oranything else eaten in
(21:42):
overabundance is gonna make usgain weight.
That's true.
I've already established that.
But for this person, if she eatsit, she's gonna eat 10.
So for her, she probablyshouldn't eat it.
And that's where like we reallyneed to understand that like
there are so many truths for usthat we have to pay attention
to.
And, you know, that's alwaysbeen one of the big reasons I
(22:04):
shy away from giving people foodplans and eating plans, because
ultimately they don't work.
You know, nobody had to evergive me an eating plan or a food
plan.
You know, I mean, the closest itever got was before I was
educated and I was doing myfirst bodybuilding show.
Like I was falling back on whatthis one guy was doing for
(22:26):
contest prep for a show, youknow, and uh, but what's funny
is I still like even looked atall that.
Like I was looking at who Iagreed with the most, and then I
went with this one guy.
So, like that, yeah, I mean,that's that's the closest I've
ever come.
But other than that, it's kindof like, well, I have to figure
this out, you know.
Like, I know like I love chipsand salsa, right?
(22:49):
I mean, god dang, I like it,right?
Sit down and like I could eat,and I just said like like four
times, all right.
So I think I got my uh quota inon likes.
I could sit down and eat, Idon't know, three, four baskets
of it, right?
Ah, I did it again.
So does that mean chips andsalsa are bad?
(23:09):
No.
It means for me, if I'm notgonna control it and I don't
really get a weight problem oranything, but it doesn't mean
that I wouldn't go home and feellike my stomach's bloated and I
ate all that crap, it's stillnot good for me.
So it doesn't mean it's bad.
It means like for me, that'ssomething I might overdo.
So maybe I should just keep thatto rare occasions, right?
(23:32):
So two things can be true at thesame time, and we have to
understand that.
And I'm stressing this becausetoo often people like they want
the fit way to eat.
Like, well, what's the fit wayto eat?
Well, you know, the fit way toeat is we have to eat within our
means.
We have to eat as close as wecan to the exact number of
calories we need for our goals,whether it be to maintain our
(23:55):
weight, gain weight, or loseweight.
We have to get as close as wecan to that every day, which I
100% believe if people payattention, they will learn a
very good self-monitoring systemthat will work for that, right?
And then being able to use thedifferent tools that are out
there to help with that.
Another thing is we have to getin all of our nutrients.
(24:15):
We have essential nutrients wehave to take in.
So essential means notimportant, it does, but that's
in another definition.
Essential in this case meansyour body can't produce it.
So you have to take it in fromthe outside.
So our body needs essentialmacronutrients and essential
micronutrients.
Without the proper balance ofthose two things, we cannot be
(24:39):
maximized in our health.
So the essential macronutrientsare carbs, protein, water, and
fat.
Those are the big four essentialmacronutrients.
They're the only four.
Okay, those are themacronutrients.
We need to eat all of them anddrink that in the right balance
(25:00):
for us based on our conditions.
We also need essentialmicronutrients.
Micronutrients are vitamins andminerals.
If we don't get all of ourvitamins and minerals, we will
not have ideal health.
So we need to make sure we'reeating for that.
So, really, the food rules arethat simple.
We need to eat within our means,calorically speaking, and we
(25:24):
need to make sure we're eating abalanced diet of all our
essential nutrients.
From there, there are so manyoptions and ways out there to
make work for you.
Like you have to know yourself.
In my book, You Can't Outrun aPoor Diet, I talk about some of
the major behavioral strategiesthat help because I just outline
(25:45):
the physiological food benefitsto all this.
So, like that's, you know,that's kind of simple.
The hard part is putting it intoaction, and that's where the
rules come in.
Like maybe don't eat dessert anddon't eat after six, you know,
things like that.
Because we are going to thenwork within what we use if we
(26:05):
have more rules attached to themfor us, but the rules are for us
because everybody is different.
And that gets back to why I saidI don't like writing food plants
because everybody's different.
I like it a lot better whenpeople just say, Hey, I've been
doing this.
What do you think of this?
And I'll ask them a fewquestions and I'll say, Oh,
okay.
So, yeah, this sounds good.
(26:26):
I would watch that though atthat time of day, you know, or
maybe you need to consume alittle more of this after your
workout, or maybe you you shouldeat in the morning, whatever.
Based on what they're doing, Ican give empirical evidence on
what I think they need to do.
One more point on this, what thetwo things can be true at the
same time.
So it is absolutely true that ahigh carb diet gives you more
(26:50):
energy and is essential forsomebody when I say high, high
for you.
So higher than you would take inif you weren't sedentary.
Okay.
So that means that you're takingin the amount of carbohydrates
to sustain your exercise orfitness program.
All right.
That's what I mean by high.
So it is absolutely true that todo that, you're going to
maximize your fitness and giveyourself what you need.
(27:11):
It's also true that the morecarbs you take in, you do spike
your insulin.
So then if you do have, like ifyou have a tendency towards
prediabetes or a tendencytowards having blood sugar
issues high or low, it's alsotrue that by doing that, you are
getting an influx of insulininto your system.
(27:31):
And again, only you and yourdoctor know your labs and know
how you like are affected byinsulin.
So both can be true.
Like, yes, a higher carbohydratefor your energy level absolutely
make you more fit.
And it could also be giving youtoo much insulin based on your
blood work.
And only you know that.
Like for me, I don't have issueswith that.
Like I can eat too many of them,you know, and all of a sudden
(27:55):
kind of be in a little bit of abrain coma, right?
Because it's like, oh, that wastoo much carbs and that produced
too much insulin.
But I don't have likephysiological medical issues
with that.
I tend not to really do thatanyway.
I tend to eat pretty, you know,I eat a lot of food by, you
know, pretty controlled and Ispread it out throughout the day
and things like that.
So like all these can be true atthe same time.
(28:16):
All right.
So I guess I leave you with thisadvice like, do your own
research, figure out what worksfor you.
Don't follow a zealot on dietrules.
Don't follow a zealot on how toeat.
I don't care if it's freaking,you know, some of these doctors
of the past, like Dr.
Oz, you know, I think everybodyknows he kind of turned out to
(28:37):
be a Looney Tune in ways, nooffense to anybody, but you
know, or others that are new,you don't need to do that.
You know, you need to do yourown research.
Fall back a lot on common senseand remember two things can be
true at the same time.
And the ultimate truth is whatis absolutely true for you.
And you'll know in what happenswhen you eat and what happens
(29:01):
with your fitness.
Okay?
The body won't lie.
Take care.
Two things can be true at thesame time.
Thank you for listening totoday's program.
I ask you to please follow theshow wherever you get your
podcasts, and please selectautomatic download because that
really helps the show.
(29:21):
Now I want to thank OverheadDoor of Daytona Beach, the
area's premier garage doorcompany.
They have the best product, theyhave the best service.
I personally vouch for Jeff andZach Hawk, the owners.
They are great people with agreat company.
If you have any garage doorneeds, please give them a shout
(29:41):
at 386 222 3165.
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