Forced Repetitions: The Science Behind Training to Failure

Send us a text

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to there is a Method to the Madness.
My name is Rob Maxwell and I'man exercise physiologist and
personal trainer.
I am the owner of Maxwell'sFitness Programs and I've been
in business since 1994.
The purpose of this podcast isto get to the real deal of what
really works and, mostimportantly, why things work.
Hence the name there is aMethod to the Madness.

(00:24):
Before I get started today, letme thank Jonathan and Lynn
Gilden of the Gilden GroupRealty Pros.
They are committed to providingthe highest level of customer
service in home sales.
Why don't you give them a shoutand figure out what your home
is worth?
386-451-2412 what is going oneverybody?

(00:44):
886-451-2412.
What is going on everybody?
This is Rob here getting readyto talk to you about health and
fitness, and today I'm going tospecifically get into some fun

(01:13):
strength training research.
You know, within my logo itsays where training is science.
I think I've stressed quiteoften how I think that we need
to understand the science prettywell and then we need to take
the science and get to work, andI like looking at different
research studies.
I think that's one of thereally cool scientific parts of

(01:38):
health and fitness, as I'vetalked about and ranted about.
You know some of the studiescan be absolutely ridiculous
what they're looking at.
But when you look at some ofthe studies that seem to matter,
you know, when you look at likedifferent kinds of training
styles compared against oneanother, even though there

(02:01):
aren't too many new things,there aren't too many new things
under the sun, so to say it'sstill really interesting to look
at the results.
I should say probably even moreinteresting to share the
results, because you know I geton this rant quite a bit, but so
many people in my industry flatout don't know what they're

(02:24):
talking about and it can be very, very annoying, to say the
least.
I do think a lot of people meanwell.
I think a lot of you know quasitrainers mean well.
I think they are absolutelydemonstrating a passion for
health and fitness most of thetime.
I mean, you know there's alwaysthose anomalies out there, but

(02:48):
I do think, like the people thatare sharing their views and
wisdom really do love it andthey mean well.
They just don't necessarilyhave all of the information.
I've also found that when youknow them, when you know some of
these folks and sit down andtalk with them, they learn and
they want to learn and at leastthe ones I've experienced, like

(03:12):
they express gratitude forlearning new things.
They just don't know it ischanging but unfortunately so
much of it still comes back fromthe old Muscle Beach mentality
of the 1970s.
It is changing, but a lot of itis still kind of falls back

(03:35):
into that.
So one of the studies I want totalk about today this isn't new,
but I was going through some ofmy old books because I'm, you
know, working on another bookand I like to use different kind
of quotes and studies andthings like that and I found
this one to be a pretty cool bitof research done by Wayne

(03:58):
Westcott, who I think is great.
He's a PhD guy and he's alwaysdone like very in your face,
simple, easy to follow studieswhere he'll look at two
different groups hisexperimental group and then his
control group and he'll justshow the data.
And I think, like a lot ofpeople don't look at the data,

(04:21):
like there's a lot of argumentsall the time on social media
regarding so many things inhealth and fitness Like you know
, one of the ones that I stayout of because it's just a never
ending war but basicallydifferent kind of dietary
techniques, like keto folksversus vegan folks, kind of two

(04:43):
polar opposite views, andthey'll argue back and forth.
And I'm going to keep this justlike within weight loss,
because they both kind of talkabout different positives to
their eating styles for otherthings, but just in weight loss
alone they don't talk about that.

(05:04):
They just kind of argue backand forth and I'll think to
myself and you know well, whydon't they just go look at the
studies?
I mean, it's pretty clear whatkind of diets and it's always
comes down to caloricrestriction to a point, and then
different kinds of hormonalchanges.
And then, of course, some ofthe new drugs the weight loss

(05:27):
drugs, the diabetes drugs haveshown really good success with
weight loss.
So they're looking at thosetypes of things.
But the studies are there likethey'll show a 12 pound decrease
in eight weeks or whatever.
So the studies are there.
In strength training, again,you'll hear different arguments
back and forth and I likelooking at different types of

(05:50):
numbers on that.
Now it's funny when I was ayoung gym rat in my 20s working
out, we always did differentversions of forced reps or
assisted reps.
I mean not always because wenecessarily wanted to, but if

(06:12):
you are working out with one ofthe bigger guys in the gym and
you're bench pressing and you'reabout halfway up or three
quarters of the way up and youfail.
Thank God your bigger strengthtraining buddy is right there to
help you and grab the weight soyou don't crash and break your
sternum.
But oftentimes, if he was amotivated gym rat which they

(06:34):
were, most of them make you do acouple, two or three more,
where you're pushing with allyour might and they're pulling
on the bar slightly.
We would call that assistedtraining and we did a lot of it.
When I say we, I mean me and myfellow gym buddies at the gym
did it.
I had no idea what the researchwould say about that back then.

(06:57):
I'm sure it existed back then.
I know what it says now andthat's what I'm going to talk
about today.
But that's what we callassisted training and that's
like one of the real goodbenefits of having a
accountability buddy or atrainer or a workout partner you
know whatever you want to callit.

(07:18):
And, by the way, let me justsay here quickly that we
shouldn't do assisted reps allthe time, but here or there they
are extremely beneficial.
So in this particular study,wescott looked at where a person
did standard training.

(07:38):
That just means that howevermany sets they were doing and I
think in this case they did justa minimal amount of sets, like
one set per exercise so that wasconsidered standard set
training and every repetition,every set was taken to
volitional fatigue, which meansto the point where a person

(07:59):
could not do another repetition.
So there was standard trainingwhere they went to failure or
volitional fatigue on all theirexercises.
And then in the other groupthere was the assisted training
group where they did.
I should back up and say thateach group did eight to 10 reps.
So the standard group did eightto 10 reps at roughly 75% of

(08:22):
their maximal load, which ispretty standard for eight to 10
reps of their maximal load,which is pretty standard for 8
to 10 reps than the other groupdid 8 to 10 reps at 75%.
But after the assisted groupfailed or hit volitional fatigue
, the spotter then helped themdo roughly 2 to 3 to 4 more

(08:43):
repetitions 4 sounds prettybrutal, but 2 to three to four
was the control.
And they looked at that over acourse of eight weeks and what
they found was for beginners.
Now I think that's kind ofcrazy to look at the beginners
and do kind of a forcedassistant reps with them.

(09:05):
But they were looking to see.
You know the difference.
If somebody just startedworking out, I mean I guess you
know they're looking at it liketake them right from the frying
pan and throw them into the fire, because that's what you're
doing when you do forcedassisted reps.
They're pretty darn hard.
But anyway, that group showed a45% improvement over the group

(09:28):
who did standard training.
That's significant.
That is a lot more.
All right, I'm going to breakthis down for you Now in the
advanced group.
And that makes a lot more sensefor advanced trainees to be
doing what we like to callpost-fatigue repetitions,
trainees to be doing what welike to call post-fatigue

(09:49):
repetitions, which could beanything from breakdown training
to assisted training, likewe're talking about here, to
pre-exhaust training, tonegative training.
So post-fatigue repetitions foradvanced people is more common.
Same study, same group 8 to 10reps, 75% of the 1RM, roughly
two to four repetitions postfatigue.

(10:10):
They showed a 40% increase.
Now, that's significant because, remember, these are advanced
folks who have already showngreat results.
So they've been working out awhile.
Typically advanced trainees areconsidered about two years of
consistent working out.
Intermediate is usually a yearor more and then under a year is

(10:32):
typically beginner.
So that's how most of thesestrength studies are broken down
.
But they showed a 40%improvement just by doing
assisted reps on all of the setsthat they did.
Both groups did the sameexercises Again.
Both groups did eight to 10reps.
Both groups did one set, exceptfor the assisted at the end.

(10:52):
Both used roughly 75% of theirone rep max, which was
determined, and they both didtwice per week full body
workouts.
So that is significant.
So I've always been a qualityover quantity guy for sure.
Like you know, the number onereason people give for not

(11:16):
working out is not having enoughtime.
So if we are able to help themwith that by teaching people
techniques that you don't haveto be in the gym for a really
long time, you can practicequality moves, quality training
to get just as good, if notbetter, results with less time.

(11:40):
So I've always believed that.
I've been around the folks thatbelieve it.
I've seen the research.
Again, I look at the research.
What works, what doesn't?
Show me the data.
If you can measure it, you canmanage it, type of thing.
Don't give me your opinion.
Let's look at the science onthis and let's figure out what
really works.
When I mean science, that'swhat I mean.

(12:01):
Let's look at the studies,let's see the data, let's see
the results.
I let's see the data, let's seethe results.
I've always leaned more towardsquality over quantity.
For sure, and the data is there.
The data supports that 100percent as well.
So this is just a techniquethat works really well.

(12:22):
I'll do it with some of theclients once we hit fatigue,
going to help them do a few morerepetitions sometimes.
I just sent a picture of aperson spotting a person on a
leg press to one of my clientsbecause he uses as much weight
on that leg press as anybody inmy gym 280 pounds, which is
really heavy, and he is north of60, so that is really

(12:47):
impressive.
Not that 60 is old, but I sentit to him going does this look
familiar?
Because I will sit there andspot and push out on that.
It's not easy to spot on a legpress, by the way, but it just
shows that on certain exercisesit's really good to get some
assistance and do what we callforced reps here or there.

(13:08):
Not every exercise is ideal forit.
There are exercises that arebetter than others, but the key
is that it works.
If you're looking to try to geta little bit more out of your
workout, instead of thinkingyou're going to add all these
exercises or add sets, addquality to your sets.

(13:29):
This is one way to add quality.
Now, everything in strength andfitness and everything in
endurance and fitness so bothsides whether we're talking
cardio or strength comes down tohow much you can recover.
When we do post-fatigue repslike this, you're absolutely

(13:49):
going to cut into your recoverysystem more.
So if you're already strugglingwith recovery not sleeping very
well, stressed out in your lifeyou're not going to want to do
advanced techniques like thisand you don't want to do it on
every exercise and you don'twant to do it every time.
I wish I could give you well.

(14:09):
I know what the science says onit.
The science says that you can'tovertrain when you're already
fatigued.
We know that.
Unfortunately, there is no wayfor the science to tell me how
overtrained you are, and it'svery hard for you even to figure
it out if your system canhandle more intensity, because
intensity is going to drain youmore, but so is a lot of high

(14:34):
volume.
Again, I wish I could tell youthe exact point when you should
do these and not do them.
The only thing I can tell youis look for clues.
If you're not sleeping, you mayneed to not push intensity
techniques or more volumetechniques.
If you feel jittery or moody,that's also a sign you may not

(14:54):
be recovering very well.
If you're constantly sore andunmotivated to train, not
wanting to push, that also mightbe a sign that you're not
recovering very well.
But other than those signs andsymptoms, it's very hard to know
for sure.
I will say this follow andtrack it.
Keep an exercise journal.
I love to do that.

(15:15):
I keep an exercise journal, Iwrite these things down, and if
you're feeling like you got thejuice and you're feeling like
you're pretty motivated andyou're feeling like you're
getting enough recovery,absolutely use some assisted
reps in there, because you willget benefit from it.
If you're a beginner, you'regoing to get like 45%.
I don't personally recommenddoing techniques like this when

(15:37):
you're a beginner.
Most people listening to thisare not, though, but if you're
intermediate to advanced, checkit out, because you'll get at
least a 40% greater rate on yourreturn.
That, my friends, is prettydarn good.
Hope.
This helps Get to the gym.
Some of my favorite exercises todo these kind of reps on are

(15:59):
chest press, because it's easyto get a spotter for that.
Bicep curls it's easy to get aspotter on that.
Lap.
Pull downs, where your traineror your spotter can grab the bar
.
Help you pull down a little bitmore.
Shoulder presses, exerciseslike that.
I don't recommend doing it onthings like leg extensions and
definitely not Well, I shouldn'tsay definitely not, but most

(16:21):
likely not barbell squats,because it could get a little
bit dangerous when you'resquatting a lot of weight and
your workout partner is tryingto help you.
But on applicable exercises, byall means jump in and see if it
helps you.
Until next time, hit the gym,have some fun, try some new
things.
Thank you for listening totoday's show.

(16:43):
I ask you to please follow thisshow on wherever you get your
podcasts and also please hitautomatic downloads.
It really helps me and it helpsthe show.
Now I want to thank OverheadDoor of Daytona Beach, the
premier garage door company inVolusia County, with the best
product with the best service.

(17:04):
I can vouch for Jeff and ZachHawk, the owners.
They are great people.
If you need any help with yourgarage doors, give them a shout
386-222-3165.