July 1, 2025 • 24 mins
Fit, Healthy & Happy Podcast
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to there is a Method to the Madness.
My name is Rob Maxwell and I'man exercise physiologist and
personal trainer.
I am the owner of Maxwell'sFitness Programs and I've been
in business since 1994.
The purpose of this podcast isto get to the real deal of what
really works and, mostimportantly, why things work.
(00:21):
Hence the name there is amethod to the madness.
Before I get to today's show, Iwant to thank Jonathan and Lynn
Gildan of the Gildan Group atRealty Pros.
They are committed to providingthe highest level of customer
service in home sales.
Why don't you give them a shoutand figure out what your home
is worth?
386-451-2412.
(00:44):
386-451-2412.
Let's talk a little bit aboutmotivation today.
I think motivation is a verycritical thing.
It's very important and I'mgoing to explain it from many
different angles today.
Hopefully.
(01:04):
Let me start with a littlestory.
I can remember when I was in mywhat was it probably my senior
year of college.
I was majoring in psychologyand I pretty much knew I was
going to go more into theperformance side of psychology,
or at least I thought I wantedto.
(01:25):
That's before I got my master'sdegree in exercise physiology.
I wanted to get into sportspsychology and I was leaning
towards it.
I wanted to be more in thephysical realm of things.
But anyway, I took a classcalled motivation because it was
more in the tract ofperformance or sport psychology,
(01:47):
which was my greatest interest,and it was a great class.
I remember it was a night class, that's neither here nor there,
but I just remember the classvery well and Dr Fisher was my
instructor.
He was really good, I reallyliked him, I had him for other
classes was my instructor and hewas really good, I really liked
him, I had him for otherclasses and I always tried to
take him when I could because hetaught also along the realms of
(02:10):
the motivational or performancepsychology.
And the class literally wasjust called motivation.
It was a, an elective for mypsych degree and, um, I went in
and we sat down and it was, youknow, night classes.
If you had them in college youknow that there tend to be a
(02:31):
little more relaxed for somereason at least they were then
and everybody sits down, he kindof, you know, halfway greets
everybody, and uh, he justwrites up on the board and I
believe it was a chalkboard then, I'm pretty sure and uh, he
writes you can't motivateanybody and this was like human
(02:55):
motivation was the name of theclass.
And uh, he starts out with abang like you can't motivate
anybody and it's like okay, solike why are we taking this
class?
And you know he obviously itwas a good, good class starter,
good conversation starter andyou know you can't I mean you
(03:16):
can't motivate them to becomemore physically fit.
They have to motivatethemselves.
You can assist.
You can't motivate somebody togo to a doctor.
You can't motivate somebody todo anything.
(03:37):
It has to come from within.
So let's talk about where thatcomes from and then what you can
do potentially to take some ofthese tips and make your life
better.
First off, let's definemotivation.
Motivation is defined as thereason or reasons one has for
acting or behaving in aparticular way.
(04:00):
If you look back on theoriginal origin of the word, to
motivate means to move.
So your motivation is thereason you have for acting or
behaving in a certain way.
So what is your motivation?
I've said before in regards tohealth and fitness that if you
(04:24):
know your why, the how becomeseasy, and I think that's very
true.
So why do you want to get inbetter shape?
Why do you want to lose weight?
Why do you want to run?
Why do you want to strengthtrain?
Why is the same thing as?
What is your motivation forthese things?
(04:45):
And I think people have sort ofan idea what their motivation
is, what their goal is, butmaybe we don't give it quite
enough thought.
All right, so now I want to talkabout different types of
motivation.
We have intrinsic and extrinsicmotivation.
(05:09):
Now, rarely are people all ornone Like, rarely is it black
and white.
Rarely are you all intrinsic inyour motivation in everything,
and rare is it that you would beall extrinsic in your
motivation in everything.
And rare is it that you wouldbe all extrinsic in your
motivation in everything.
Is there a better or a worse,or a good and a bad?
(05:32):
There's probably not a good ora bad, but there is a better or
a worse.
It typically is better to bemore intrinsically motivated,
and I will talk about why hereas I close this up.
But it's not like beingextrinsically motivated is all
(05:55):
bad.
There are pros and cons, solet's first start with the one
that's maybe not the best.
Let's talk about extrinsicmotivation.
What is it defined as, how doesit show itself and what are the
pros and cons of extrinsicmotivation.
(06:17):
So extrinsic motivation isdefined as engaging in an
activity to obtain a separateoutcome, for example a reward,
or to avoid punishment, ratherthan for the inherent enjoyment
of the activity itself.
So you are looking forsomething.
(06:40):
When you're extrinsicallymotivated, you're looking for
either a reward like money, likea trophy, like praise, like a
pat on the back, mvp awardaccolades from your boss.
(07:00):
So that's all like howextrinsic motivation shows.
That shows itself.
It also is defined as trying toavoid punishment.
So that could be.
You don't want to not get yourbonus, you want to make sure
(07:21):
that you're not cut from theteam, you want to make sure that
you get playing time.
If you're on a team, you wantto make sure that you don't, for
example, say, have to pay aspeeding ticket, right, because
you're trying to avoidpunishment.
So like you don't speed, notbecause you feel like it's
(07:44):
dangerous yourself.
That would be moreextrinsically motivated.
You don't speed because you'retrying to avoid a ticket, right?
So extrinsically motivated.
You're either trying to get aprize, you're trying to get a
reward, you're trying to getsomething positive, or you're
trying to avoid the negative.
That would be extrinsicmotivation.
(08:07):
So where is it good?
So extrinsic motivation could begood for initial activation of
an activity.
So usually we see it more inyounger people, like in kids.
So you can use extrinsicmotivation positively to try to
(08:28):
get somebody engaged in anactivity.
Like if you're a teacher inschool and you want kids to say,
sign up for, like the debateteam, because you think it's
going to be very positive forthem to learn how to make cases,
to learn how to debate, tolearn how to handle
confrontations, those types ofthings you know.
(08:51):
You maybe can't just say oh,you will like it and they won't
know why.
You have to try to get themengaged in the activity.
Extrinsic motivation could be avery good tool for that.
In other words, if the kidsigns up for the debate team
because at the end of the cycleor the month or however you do
it, they get some kind of likepizza party for those that
(09:14):
participated, that's not a badthing.
So usually using extrinsicmotivation in the initial stages
of something has a huge benefitbecause the person may not know
that they like the activity yet.
They may not know that this issomething they want to continue
(09:36):
to do.
So it works for that.
It's also good for the people.
This is kind of like an oxymoron, though I think it's good for
the people who are not motivated.
So if somebody is not motivatedintrinsically, then extrinsic
motivation, I guess, is, youknow I say I guess because it's
(09:58):
like to me it still sounds alittle, you know, like you're on
shaky grounds, you know.
But it's a way to get somebodyto do it and they could say,
well, at least I'm doing it,even though I'm only doing it
for this reason, so you know.
So, yes, I would agree thatbeing extrinsically motivated in
(10:20):
that case is better than notbeing motivated at all.
The cons to being extrinsicallymotivated, or more driven by
that, is obviously there's adecrease in intrinsic motivation
.
So, kind of like, the moreextrinsically motivated you are,
the less intrinsicallymotivated you are.
(10:41):
And again, it's not bad or good, but it's better or worse and
it is better to be moreintrinsically motivated.
So if you're trying foryourself to get more
intrinsically motivated, themore you set up paradigms where
you're getting extrinsicallyrewarded or punished, the less
likely you are to becomeintrinsically motivated.
(11:02):
So one of the downsides or thecons to being extrinsically
motivated is it takes away fromyour intrinsic motivation.
The other one I see a lot istask quality really, really
diminishes, and I see that a lot.
Again, it's, it's it's a degree.
I have people that are likereally, really, really.
(11:25):
When I say I have people, Imean clients, people I coach.
I have people that are really,really intrinsically motivated.
And then I have people that arereally, really extrinsically
motivated, and then I have a lotof people somewhere in between,
which is probably where mostpeople are most of the time, the
people that are the mostextrinsically motivated.
(11:45):
I see the worst task quality inthem.
It's something that we alwayshave to work on and I point it
out a lot.
It's like the form on, say,strength exercises is the worst
in extrinsic motivation, becauseall they're trying to do is win
.
They're trying to hit a task.
(12:06):
How many am I doing?
You're doing 10.
They're trying to get 10 donebecause they think that's how
they get the pat on the back bythe coach or they think that
that's what they're supposed todo.
And then you bring other peopleinto it, like if there's more
than them doing it.
If a couple people are doingpushups, it turns into a
competition and extrinsicmotivated people tend to let
(12:29):
their form just go out thewindow, which you know is bad,
because in the long run thenyou're decreasing your ability
to win in the end.
But extrinsically motivatedpeople tend to have a hard time
seeing beyond what's directly infront of them, so task quality
really decreases.
(12:50):
With extrinsically motivatedpeople, the quality just won't
be there, the focus just won'tbe there.
Everything becomes a completionof a task versus doing it the
best you can in the moment.
All right, so that's the prosand cons of intrinsic or
extrinsically motivated people.
(13:12):
Now let's get into where I wouldlove to see people get more to
and again, it's not a black orwhite thing, more of a degree of
more intrinsic motivation.
I think we do need someextrinsic motivation, right?
I mean, I need to get paid.
I need to get paid for doing mywork that I do.
You need to get paid for doingthe work that you do.
(13:33):
So there is always a sense ofthat that it's not like, oh,
none of it matters, it doesmatter, it's just to what degree
.
I mean Ivo's personally is justtotally not studied, not
statistic.
This is just my opinion on manythings.
Is I like the 80% rule inthings all the time, like with
(13:53):
diet?
Like be 80% really, reallyclean on your diet 80% of the
time.
So that's an example.
Well, I would say the samething with motivation.
I would like to see people getextrinsically motivated only 20%
and intrinsically motivated 80%.
So if we can get more in thatdirection, I think that would be
ideal and then we can takesteps to do that, which, again,
(14:15):
I will close up when we are donetoday trying to give you some
steps on how to do that.
All right, so intrinsicmotivation is the drive to
engage in activities becausethey are inherently enjoyable or
satisfying, rather than seekingany form of external rewards or
punishment.
So it is doing something forthe sake of doing it itself,
(14:40):
because you enjoy it and it issatisfying to you.
For example, I feel like I'mpretty intrinsically motivated
in many things.
I do like to run.
I like to run because I like torun.
I don't always love to start torun, but I like to run, love to
(15:02):
start to run, but I like to runOnce I get into it, once I'm
warmed up.
I'm doing it for the sake of it, for the labored breathing, for
the focus on basically thefootsteps in my breathing.
It's a meditative thing for me.
It gives me better health andfitness.
It makes me feel better whenI'm done.
I'm at my worst when I turn itinto an extrinsic thing and I'm
worried about, say, a 5k time,or I'm worried about beating
(15:26):
somebody in a 5k.
Do I think these thingssometimes?
Yes, like I said, my goal is80% and sometimes I can get more
than 80% or less than 80% andthen end up being too
extrinsically motivated and Ipay the price for it because it
becomes less enjoyable.
So I like to run for the sakeof running, strength training,
(15:48):
just the same thing.
I love it.
Of course I want some extrinsicmotivation on that.
I want to see the weights go up.
That's not really evenextrinsic actually up.
You know, that's not reallyeven extrinsic actually, but you
know again, it's not.
It doesn't have to be perfectlyall intrinsic, but I just like
to strength train for the sakeof strength training.
I like to do it mostly bymyself.
(16:10):
I like to feel the burn, I liketo feel the pump, I like to
meditate as I'm doing it, forexample, focusing on the form.
I just like to do it.
It is a good activity for me,so like for me, that's it fits
the perfect definition of doingsomething for the inherent
nature of enjoyment.
(16:31):
I do enjoy strength training.
I enjoy running.
I'm intrinsically motivated todo these podcasts.
I like doing these podcasts.
I like doing the emails.
There's a sense of satisfactionwhen I complete writing an
email or a portion of a book orwhatever, and it's done and it's
edited and I look at it likethere's a sense of that Like, do
(16:54):
I have to get paid for it?
I mean no, and I often don't.
I like to do it for the sake ofdoing it.
That is intrinsically motivated, all right.
So now let's look at the prosand the cons of it.
So the pros of intrinsicallymotivated people is, basically,
it just increases yourengagement in something.
(17:15):
You are more engaged.
You are doing it for the sakeof doing it.
You can see it in somebody'sface when they're more intrinsic
, you can see a better focus intheir eyes.
You can see a better focus intheir facial expression.
They are more engaged in theactivity.
They seem to be following theflow of what is really going on.
They are definitely lessdistracted.
(17:37):
People who are moreextrinsically motivated are more
distracted.
People who are moreextrinsically motivated are more
distracted.
People who are moreintrinsically motivated are more
focused.
The other pros are the qualityof the task.
When you're doing something forthe sake of doing it, you put
your heart into it, you do itright.
If you're doing laundry becauseyou like to do laundry a task I
(18:01):
don't like to do but you'regoing to do it with more quality
, you're going to make sure thatyou put the spray and wash on
certain things before you put itin.
I mean, that's just a sillyexample, but it doesn't have to
all be about working out on bigthings.
We can be intrinsicallymotivated in tasks that we're
doing because we just enjoydoing them and they're the right
(18:22):
things to do.
We stay focused and we improveour quality of task.
When we're extrinsicallymotivated, we are distracted and
the quality goes down.
Now, the only real con tointrinsic motivation for us
people that measure it is it'sharder to measure.
How do you know?
How do you know, like, how doyou go?
(18:43):
Oh man, I'm intrinsicallymotivated.
It's like well, how do you knowthat?
Do you like it?
Well, yeah, I like the activity, but I also like the on the
back.
It's like oh, I mean.
So it's hard.
It's just harder to measure.
It's harder to help students orpeople that are trying to learn
how to get there.
It's harder to help them know.
So it's just more subjective.
(19:06):
It's harder to get people toreally feel it All right, so
there's really not much we cando about that.
It's just understanding that.
The con is you may not know.
When you're there You'regetting a good idea that you
know you are getting closer toit though.
Genetics wise, you know, itappears that Most of being
(19:31):
extrinsic or intrinsicallymotivated is learned.
So most of what we know aboutthis is a learned phenomenon.
There is some sort of geneticlink to being more intrinsically
motivated.
There are some personalitytraits.
People that tend to be moreextroverted, people that tend to
be more adventurous, tend to bemore intrinsically motivated
(19:54):
because they like to do thingsfor the sake of doing it.
So that's kind of genetics.
Like your personality trait isdefinitely more genetically
inherited.
And then there's also somescience on the dopamine system.
So people that tend to be moreintrinsically motivated have
maybe a slightly healthierdopamine system.
So they get more rewarded withdopamine naturally by doing good
(20:19):
acts or doing things that theyknow they should do, without
needing the extrinsic motivatedsystem of a pat on the back or
money or a trophy.
So there does appear to be somegenetic predisposition towards
intrinsic motivation, butultimately the science, the
social science, says that bothcan be learned.
(20:40):
So how do we learn how to do it?
I mean, I'm going to sum it upreally simple.
The first thing is you have tounderstand the importance of it.
You have to understand thatextrinsically motivation, you
have to understand thatextrinsic motivation is only
going to carry you so far.
It's good to get into anactivity, but if it continues to
(21:01):
stay your motivation, you'reprobably going to drop out of
the activity.
You're probably not going toget much better because your O
is consciously measuringyourself against other things or
things you can't control, andyou're probably not going to do
a very good job at the thingsthat you do.
So the first step is you haveto just acknowledge that it is a
(21:23):
potential problem.
The second thing is you have topull yourself out of activities
where extrinsic motivation isthe only reward.
You have to go well, you knowwhat no-transcript give yourself
(22:04):
pats on the back for aaccomplishment that feels good
about yourself.
If you know that strengthtraining is good for you and you
want to get more intrinsicallymotivated in strength training,
then you should strength trainand then be able to blow your
own nose, so to say I mean, look, people that go to a trainer
(22:25):
need some motivation, help, theyneed accountability.
That's different and there'snothing wrong with that.
We just also need to get to thepoint where we know what we're
doing feels good for ourselvesand we know how to say okay, so
I didn't hit the eight reps mytrainer told me to hit.
But at the same time, I know Idid my best and you can give
(22:46):
yourself a pat on the back forthat because you know that you
gave your best.
So that is the final step isunderstanding that.
How do you learn to do thingsand then give yourself that kind
of reward and or, you know,punishment, in other words, have
some self-discipline to say Icould have done a better job
(23:08):
with that, all right.
So let's see what we can do tobecome more intrinsically
motivated this week, because Ido.
(23:29):
I want to thank Overhead Door ofDaytona Beach, the area's
premier garage door company.
They have the best product.
They have the best service.
I personally vouch for Jeff andZach Hawk, the owners.
They are great people with agreat company.
If you have any garage doorneeds, please give them a shout
at 386-222-3165.
Welcome to there is a Method to the Madness.
My name is Rob Maxwell and I'man exercise physiologist and
personal trainer.
I am the owner of Maxwell'sFitness Programs and I've been
in business since 1994.
The purpose of this podcast isto get to the real deal of what
really works and, mostimportantly, why things work.
(00:21):
Hence the name there is amethod to the madness.
Before I get to today's show, Iwant to thank Jonathan and Lynn
Gildan of the Gildan Group atRealty Pros.
They are committed to providingthe highest level of customer
service in home sales.
Why don't you give them a shoutand figure out what your home
is worth?
386-451-2412.
(00:44):
386-451-2412.
Let's talk a little bit aboutmotivation today.
I think motivation is a verycritical thing.
It's very important and I'mgoing to explain it from many
different angles today.
Hopefully.
(01:04):
Let me start with a littlestory.
I can remember when I was in mywhat was it probably my senior
year of college.
I was majoring in psychologyand I pretty much knew I was
going to go more into theperformance side of psychology,
or at least I thought I wantedto.
(01:25):
That's before I got my master'sdegree in exercise physiology.
I wanted to get into sportspsychology and I was leaning
towards it.
I wanted to be more in thephysical realm of things.
But anyway, I took a classcalled motivation because it was
more in the tract ofperformance or sport psychology,
(01:47):
which was my greatest interest,and it was a great class.
I remember it was a night class, that's neither here nor there,
but I just remember the classvery well and Dr Fisher was my
instructor.
He was really good, I reallyliked him, I had him for other
classes was my instructor and hewas really good, I really liked
him, I had him for otherclasses and I always tried to
take him when I could because hetaught also along the realms of
(02:10):
the motivational or performancepsychology.
And the class literally wasjust called motivation.
It was a, an elective for mypsych degree and, um, I went in
and we sat down and it was, youknow, night classes.
If you had them in college youknow that there tend to be a
(02:31):
little more relaxed for somereason at least they were then
and everybody sits down, he kindof, you know, halfway greets
everybody, and uh, he justwrites up on the board and I
believe it was a chalkboard then, I'm pretty sure and uh, he
writes you can't motivateanybody and this was like human
(02:55):
motivation was the name of theclass.
And uh, he starts out with abang like you can't motivate
anybody and it's like okay, solike why are we taking this
class?
And you know he obviously itwas a good, good class starter,
good conversation starter andyou know you can't I mean you
(03:16):
can't motivate them to becomemore physically fit.
They have to motivatethemselves.
You can assist.
You can't motivate somebody togo to a doctor.
You can't motivate somebody todo anything.
(03:37):
It has to come from within.
So let's talk about where thatcomes from and then what you can
do potentially to take some ofthese tips and make your life
better.
First off, let's definemotivation.
Motivation is defined as thereason or reasons one has for
acting or behaving in aparticular way.
(04:00):
If you look back on theoriginal origin of the word, to
motivate means to move.
So your motivation is thereason you have for acting or
behaving in a certain way.
So what is your motivation?
I've said before in regards tohealth and fitness that if you
(04:24):
know your why, the how becomeseasy, and I think that's very
true.
So why do you want to get inbetter shape?
Why do you want to lose weight?
Why do you want to run?
Why do you want to strengthtrain?
Why is the same thing as?
What is your motivation forthese things?
(04:45):
And I think people have sort ofan idea what their motivation
is, what their goal is, butmaybe we don't give it quite
enough thought.
All right, so now I want to talkabout different types of
motivation.
We have intrinsic and extrinsicmotivation.
(05:09):
Now, rarely are people all ornone Like, rarely is it black
and white.
Rarely are you all intrinsic inyour motivation in everything,
and rare is it that you would beall extrinsic in your
motivation in everything.
And rare is it that you wouldbe all extrinsic in your
motivation in everything.
Is there a better or a worse,or a good and a bad?
(05:32):
There's probably not a good ora bad, but there is a better or
a worse.
It typically is better to bemore intrinsically motivated,
and I will talk about why hereas I close this up.
But it's not like beingextrinsically motivated is all
(05:55):
bad.
There are pros and cons, solet's first start with the one
that's maybe not the best.
Let's talk about extrinsicmotivation.
What is it defined as, how doesit show itself and what are the
pros and cons of extrinsicmotivation.
(06:17):
So extrinsic motivation isdefined as engaging in an
activity to obtain a separateoutcome, for example a reward,
or to avoid punishment, ratherthan for the inherent enjoyment
of the activity itself.
So you are looking forsomething.
(06:40):
When you're extrinsicallymotivated, you're looking for
either a reward like money, likea trophy, like praise, like a
pat on the back, mvp awardaccolades from your boss.
(07:00):
So that's all like howextrinsic motivation shows.
That shows itself.
It also is defined as trying toavoid punishment.
So that could be.
You don't want to not get yourbonus, you want to make sure
(07:21):
that you're not cut from theteam, you want to make sure that
you get playing time.
If you're on a team, you wantto make sure that you don't, for
example, say, have to pay aspeeding ticket, right, because
you're trying to avoidpunishment.
So like you don't speed, notbecause you feel like it's
(07:44):
dangerous yourself.
That would be moreextrinsically motivated.
You don't speed because you'retrying to avoid a ticket, right?
So extrinsically motivated.
You're either trying to get aprize, you're trying to get a
reward, you're trying to getsomething positive, or you're
trying to avoid the negative.
That would be extrinsicmotivation.
(08:07):
So where is it good?
So extrinsic motivation could begood for initial activation of
an activity.
So usually we see it more inyounger people, like in kids.
So you can use extrinsicmotivation positively to try to
(08:28):
get somebody engaged in anactivity.
Like if you're a teacher inschool and you want kids to say,
sign up for, like the debateteam, because you think it's
going to be very positive forthem to learn how to make cases,
to learn how to debate, tolearn how to handle
confrontations, those types ofthings you know.
(08:51):
You maybe can't just say oh,you will like it and they won't
know why.
You have to try to get themengaged in the activity.
Extrinsic motivation could be avery good tool for that.
In other words, if the kidsigns up for the debate team
because at the end of the cycleor the month or however you do
it, they get some kind of likepizza party for those that
(09:14):
participated, that's not a badthing.
So usually using extrinsicmotivation in the initial stages
of something has a huge benefitbecause the person may not know
that they like the activity yet.
They may not know that this issomething they want to continue
(09:36):
to do.
So it works for that.
It's also good for the people.
This is kind of like an oxymoron, though I think it's good for
the people who are not motivated.
So if somebody is not motivatedintrinsically, then extrinsic
motivation, I guess, is, youknow I say I guess because it's
(09:58):
like to me it still sounds alittle, you know, like you're on
shaky grounds, you know.
But it's a way to get somebodyto do it and they could say,
well, at least I'm doing it,even though I'm only doing it
for this reason, so you know.
So, yes, I would agree thatbeing extrinsically motivated in
(10:20):
that case is better than notbeing motivated at all.
The cons to being extrinsicallymotivated, or more driven by
that, is obviously there's adecrease in intrinsic motivation
.
So, kind of like, the moreextrinsically motivated you are,
the less intrinsicallymotivated you are.
(10:41):
And again, it's not bad or good, but it's better or worse and
it is better to be moreintrinsically motivated.
So if you're trying foryourself to get more
intrinsically motivated, themore you set up paradigms where
you're getting extrinsicallyrewarded or punished, the less
likely you are to becomeintrinsically motivated.
(11:02):
So one of the downsides or thecons to being extrinsically
motivated is it takes away fromyour intrinsic motivation.
The other one I see a lot istask quality really, really
diminishes, and I see that a lot.
Again, it's, it's it's a degree.
I have people that are likereally, really, really.
(11:25):
When I say I have people, Imean clients, people I coach.
I have people that are really,really intrinsically motivated.
And then I have people that arereally, really extrinsically
motivated, and then I have a lotof people somewhere in between,
which is probably where mostpeople are most of the time, the
people that are the mostextrinsically motivated.
(11:45):
I see the worst task quality inthem.
It's something that we alwayshave to work on and I point it
out a lot.
It's like the form on, say,strength exercises is the worst
in extrinsic motivation, becauseall they're trying to do is win
.
They're trying to hit a task.
(12:06):
How many am I doing?
You're doing 10.
They're trying to get 10 donebecause they think that's how
they get the pat on the back bythe coach or they think that
that's what they're supposed todo.
And then you bring other peopleinto it, like if there's more
than them doing it.
If a couple people are doingpushups, it turns into a
competition and extrinsicmotivated people tend to let
(12:29):
their form just go out thewindow, which you know is bad,
because in the long run thenyou're decreasing your ability
to win in the end.
But extrinsically motivatedpeople tend to have a hard time
seeing beyond what's directly infront of them, so task quality
really decreases.
(12:50):
With extrinsically motivatedpeople, the quality just won't
be there, the focus just won'tbe there.
Everything becomes a completionof a task versus doing it the
best you can in the moment.
All right, so that's the prosand cons of intrinsic or
extrinsically motivated people.
(13:12):
Now let's get into where I wouldlove to see people get more to
and again, it's not a black orwhite thing, more of a degree of
more intrinsic motivation.
I think we do need someextrinsic motivation, right?
I mean, I need to get paid.
I need to get paid for doing mywork that I do.
You need to get paid for doingthe work that you do.
(13:33):
So there is always a sense ofthat that it's not like, oh,
none of it matters, it doesmatter, it's just to what degree
.
I mean Ivo's personally is justtotally not studied, not
statistic.
This is just my opinion on manythings.
Is I like the 80% rule inthings all the time, like with
(13:53):
diet?
Like be 80% really, reallyclean on your diet 80% of the
time.
So that's an example.
Well, I would say the samething with motivation.
I would like to see people getextrinsically motivated only 20%
and intrinsically motivated 80%.
So if we can get more in thatdirection, I think that would be
ideal and then we can takesteps to do that, which, again,
(14:15):
I will close up when we are donetoday trying to give you some
steps on how to do that.
All right, so intrinsicmotivation is the drive to
engage in activities becausethey are inherently enjoyable or
satisfying, rather than seekingany form of external rewards or
punishment.
So it is doing something forthe sake of doing it itself,
(14:40):
because you enjoy it and it issatisfying to you.
For example, I feel like I'mpretty intrinsically motivated
in many things.
I do like to run.
I like to run because I like torun.
I don't always love to start torun, but I like to run, love to
(15:02):
start to run, but I like to runOnce I get into it, once I'm
warmed up.
I'm doing it for the sake of it, for the labored breathing, for
the focus on basically thefootsteps in my breathing.
It's a meditative thing for me.
It gives me better health andfitness.
It makes me feel better whenI'm done.
I'm at my worst when I turn itinto an extrinsic thing and I'm
worried about, say, a 5k time,or I'm worried about beating
(15:26):
somebody in a 5k.
Do I think these thingssometimes?
Yes, like I said, my goal is80% and sometimes I can get more
than 80% or less than 80% andthen end up being too
extrinsically motivated and Ipay the price for it because it
becomes less enjoyable.
So I like to run for the sakeof running, strength training,
(15:48):
just the same thing.
I love it.
Of course I want some extrinsicmotivation on that.
I want to see the weights go up.
That's not really evenextrinsic actually up.
You know, that's not reallyeven extrinsic actually, but you
know again, it's not.
It doesn't have to be perfectlyall intrinsic, but I just like
to strength train for the sakeof strength training.
I like to do it mostly bymyself.
(16:10):
I like to feel the burn, I liketo feel the pump, I like to
meditate as I'm doing it, forexample, focusing on the form.
I just like to do it.
It is a good activity for me,so like for me, that's it fits
the perfect definition of doingsomething for the inherent
nature of enjoyment.
(16:31):
I do enjoy strength training.
I enjoy running.
I'm intrinsically motivated todo these podcasts.
I like doing these podcasts.
I like doing the emails.
There's a sense of satisfactionwhen I complete writing an
email or a portion of a book orwhatever, and it's done and it's
edited and I look at it likethere's a sense of that Like, do
(16:54):
I have to get paid for it?
I mean no, and I often don't.
I like to do it for the sake ofdoing it.
That is intrinsically motivated, all right.
So now let's look at the prosand the cons of it.
So the pros of intrinsicallymotivated people is, basically,
it just increases yourengagement in something.
(17:15):
You are more engaged.
You are doing it for the sakeof doing it.
You can see it in somebody'sface when they're more intrinsic
, you can see a better focus intheir eyes.
You can see a better focus intheir facial expression.
They are more engaged in theactivity.
They seem to be following theflow of what is really going on.
They are definitely lessdistracted.
(17:37):
People who are moreextrinsically motivated are more
distracted.
People who are moreextrinsically motivated are more
distracted.
People who are moreintrinsically motivated are more
focused.
The other pros are the qualityof the task.
When you're doing something forthe sake of doing it, you put
your heart into it, you do itright.
If you're doing laundry becauseyou like to do laundry a task I
(18:01):
don't like to do but you'regoing to do it with more quality
, you're going to make sure thatyou put the spray and wash on
certain things before you put itin.
I mean, that's just a sillyexample, but it doesn't have to
all be about working out on bigthings.
We can be intrinsicallymotivated in tasks that we're
doing because we just enjoydoing them and they're the right
(18:22):
things to do.
We stay focused and we improveour quality of task.
When we're extrinsicallymotivated, we are distracted and
the quality goes down.
Now, the only real con tointrinsic motivation for us
people that measure it is it'sharder to measure.
How do you know?
How do you know, like, how doyou go?
(18:43):
Oh man, I'm intrinsicallymotivated.
It's like well, how do you knowthat?
Do you like it?
Well, yeah, I like the activity, but I also like the on the
back.
It's like oh, I mean.
So it's hard.
It's just harder to measure.
It's harder to help students orpeople that are trying to learn
how to get there.
It's harder to help them know.
So it's just more subjective.
(19:06):
It's harder to get people toreally feel it All right, so
there's really not much we cando about that.
It's just understanding that.
The con is you may not know.
When you're there You'regetting a good idea that you
know you are getting closer toit though.
Genetics wise, you know, itappears that Most of being
(19:31):
extrinsic or intrinsicallymotivated is learned.
So most of what we know aboutthis is a learned phenomenon.
There is some sort of geneticlink to being more intrinsically
motivated.
There are some personalitytraits.
People that tend to be moreextroverted, people that tend to
be more adventurous, tend to bemore intrinsically motivated
(19:54):
because they like to do thingsfor the sake of doing it.
So that's kind of genetics.
Like your personality trait isdefinitely more genetically
inherited.
And then there's also somescience on the dopamine system.
So people that tend to be moreintrinsically motivated have
maybe a slightly healthierdopamine system.
So they get more rewarded withdopamine naturally by doing good
(20:19):
acts or doing things that theyknow they should do, without
needing the extrinsic motivatedsystem of a pat on the back or
money or a trophy.
So there does appear to be somegenetic predisposition towards
intrinsic motivation, butultimately the science, the
social science, says that bothcan be learned.
(20:40):
So how do we learn how to do it?
I mean, I'm going to sum it upreally simple.
The first thing is you have tounderstand the importance of it.
You have to understand thatextrinsically motivation, you
have to understand thatextrinsic motivation is only
going to carry you so far.
It's good to get into anactivity, but if it continues to
(21:01):
stay your motivation, you'reprobably going to drop out of
the activity.
You're probably not going toget much better because your O
is consciously measuringyourself against other things or
things you can't control, andyou're probably not going to do
a very good job at the thingsthat you do.
So the first step is you haveto just acknowledge that it is a
(21:23):
potential problem.
The second thing is you have topull yourself out of activities
where extrinsic motivation isthe only reward.
You have to go well, you knowwhat no-transcript give yourself
(22:04):
pats on the back for aaccomplishment that feels good
about yourself.
If you know that strengthtraining is good for you and you
want to get more intrinsicallymotivated in strength training,
then you should strength trainand then be able to blow your
own nose, so to say I mean, look, people that go to a trainer
(22:25):
need some motivation, help, theyneed accountability.
That's different and there'snothing wrong with that.
We just also need to get to thepoint where we know what we're
doing feels good for ourselvesand we know how to say okay, so
I didn't hit the eight reps mytrainer told me to hit.
But at the same time, I know Idid my best and you can give
(22:46):
yourself a pat on the back forthat because you know that you
gave your best.
So that is the final step isunderstanding that.
How do you learn to do thingsand then give yourself that kind
of reward and or, you know,punishment, in other words, have
some self-discipline to say Icould have done a better job
(23:08):
with that, all right.
So let's see what we can do tobecome more intrinsically
motivated this week, because Ido.
(23:29):
I want to thank Overhead Door ofDaytona Beach, the area's
premier garage door company.
They have the best product.
They have the best service.
I personally vouch for Jeff andZach Hawk, the owners.
They are great people with agreat company.
If you have any garage doorneeds, please give them a shout
at 386-222-3165.
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