June 6, 2025 • 28 mins
Fit, Healthy & Happy Podcast
Welcome to the Fit, Healthy and Happy Podcast hosted by Josh and Kyle from Colossus...
Welcome to the Fit, Healthy and Happy Podcast hosted by Josh and Kyle from Colossus...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to there is a Method to the Madness.
My name is Rob Maxwell and I'man exercise physiologist and
personal trainer.
I am the owner of Maxwell'sFitness Programs and I've been
in business since 1994.
The purpose of this podcast isto get to the real deal of what
really works and, mostimportantly, why things work.
(00:21):
Hence the name.
There is a a method to themadness.
Before I get to today's show, Iwant to thank Jonathan and Lynn
Gildan of the Gildan Group atRealty Pros.
They are committed to providingthe highest level of customer
service in home sales.
Why don't you give them a shoutand figure out what your home
is worth?
386-451-2412.
(00:48):
Good morning or good afternoonor good evening whenever you are
listening to this podcast.
This is part two of theSpecificity podcast and I think
this is.
I'm really looking forward tothis because this is information
that I think is reallyimportant and I like digging
into the science and doing alittle bit of research prior to
(01:10):
podcasts, prior to emails.
I mean, I have the information,I know the topics, I know all
that, but I also like to pullout like statistics and things.
It's pretty cool and you know,I love to learn, as I've said.
So I always like going back inand reviewing stuff that I have
learned before.
So it's important for thatreason because, as I said, that
(01:34):
you know I like to do it andthat's important.
And it's important because it'sinformation that you really
need, because too often peopleare simply training the way they
see other people training orthey're being misled by people
who are maybe trying to be niceto tell them to do certain
things, and we have to learnthat, like we are our own people
(01:59):
with our own goals and our ownbodies, so we have to really do
what is absolutely best for us,and that is a big part where
specificity comes in.
So in part one of this, if youmissed it, I mean you could
probably listen to this and beabsolutely fine.
But if you want to go back,just go to the previous episode,
(02:22):
because I talked about all thedifferent body systems and then
specifically the ones that areimpacted by specificity.
So you might want to get alittle bit of a say, anatomy and
physiology lesson there or, asI said, you can just continue to
listen.
But that's what part one was,was really talking about the
bodily systems and I spent a lotof time on the skeletal system
(02:47):
and on the endocrine system,nervous system and, of course,
cardiovascular and muscularsystem, which are a huge part of
specificity.
But today I'm going to get intolike the real specifics, so the
specifics of specificity, ofspecificity, and I'm going to
(03:10):
talk today about like thecardiovascular side of things or
the different modes ofcardiovascular training, where
people really have to understandspecificity.
So, as I said yesterday, thesimplest way to explain it is to
say that if you want to runfaster, then you need to run
(03:32):
Right.
So that's at the simplest rootsof it.
And all that came about, by theway, like this was kind of
discovered with specificity withVO2 max, way, way back.
Specificity with VO2 max way,way back.
I should have done my researchon this one, but I do think it
was in the 1970s.
They were measuring FrankShorter's VO2 max and he is was
(03:59):
at that time an elite marathonrunner runners, one of the
greatest the United States hasever had, and he was an icon in
running.
He's still around, but I mean,he was definitely an icon in the
1970s and they measured his vo2max, originally on an exercise
bike, and they were kind ofblown away that his vo2 max
(04:21):
wasn't that good.
Like I don't quote me, chat,gbt it when you hang up and find
out for sure.
But I believe his originalnumbers were in like the fifties
, on the bike that is.
And that's a good number, likewe'll take it.
But for an elite professionalrunner, distance runner, it's
not like Lance Armstrong's was87, for example.
(04:44):
So like they get into the 80s,these elites, and that's kind of
where they expected his to be,but it was in the 50s.
So then they got smart.
They're like, well, he's arunner and he's on a bike.
And some people of course werelike, well, that shouldn't
matter, vo2's, vo2.
But the others, maybe the Idon't want to say smarter people
(05:04):
in the room, but maybe the oneswith I don't know more curious,
said well, maybe if we testedthem on a treadmill we would get
different results.
And they did, and they did getdifferent results.
And then I believe his numberswell, I know his numbers were
way higher than what they got onthe bike and I believe it was
closer to what they expected,being at the elite level, which
(05:26):
really started getting them intothe principle of specificity
and how much it matters.
So you know, before that a lotof people were saying, well,
cross train, cross train, whichis true.
I mean, cross training meansthat you can do different
activities to get the sameresults.
Like you can bike and improveyour cardiovascular fitness, you
can run.
You can do different activitiesto get the same results.
(05:46):
Like you can bike and improveyour cardiovascular fitness, you
can run, you can improve yourcardiovascular fitness.
All this is true.
You can swim and you canimprove your cardiovascular
fitness.
But prior to digging intospecificity, they thought like
cycling might make you a betterrunner and running might make
you a better cyclist, and so onand so on.
(06:06):
And it doesn't.
Does it all improve yourfitness?
Does it all get you to animproved cardiovascular system?
Of course it does.
So if you're cross-training toimprove your health and fitness,
awesome, and I suggest it.
It's a great way to do it.
There's more variety, maybeless risk for overuse, injuries
(06:27):
it's great.
But if you're trying to getgood at one thing, then you have
to focus on the principle ofspecificity.
So that is what I'm going to dotoday.
(06:48):
I'm going to use running as agreat example of how to
understand specificity and, asyou see, just in that example
alone, it's just morecomplicated than if you want to
do this.
You've got to get better.
So we're taking a system itselfand saying that's not even true
(07:08):
, like you can't just do cardioand then be good at all cardio.
You have to do specific cardioand we have to do specific
things.
Okay, so this came up becausethere's a great conversation
about somebody who was followingsomebody who was really into
rucking.
(07:28):
Okay, and rucking, and they maynot have called it that, but
that's what it is.
That's basically running orhiking or jogging with a
backpack and they have, you know, different weighted backpacks.
I think they have 20-poundweighted backpacks.
I think they have 20 poundweighted backpacks now because
rucking's become really popular.
They have 40 pounders, probablyeven heavier, and rucking is
(07:53):
great.
You know, it kind of starts alittle bit with the military,
like military guys.
One of the guys I trained for awhile his goal was to get into
West Point.
That was his goal.
That was him and his dad's goalfor him and I worked with him.
This was five, six, seven yearsnow.
Thankfully I can say he gotinto West Point and he graduated
(08:15):
.
But his goal was to get in andmeet the physical standards,
because he already had the SATsand grades and he was very close
in the physical.
But there was a couple ofthings he needed to do and he
gave me his list of everythinghe had to do.
It was pull-ups and push-upsand there was fast running
involved, meaning he had to meeta mile time or a mile and a
(08:38):
half.
Honestly, I don't rememberwhich one it was, but I know it
was a middle distance event andhe had a rucking event.
So he had to cover a certainamount of distance with a
certain amount of weight and theweight had to be on his back
and he had to hold somethinglike a gun style.
You know, whatever the weightthat is, he had to carry that.
So there was all these thingsthat were very specific to what
(09:00):
he had to do.
And that's kind of cool,honestly, about the way the
military academies preparepeople is they actually know
their shit.
Like he was showing me some oftheir stuff that their exercise
physiologists, you know, wantthem to do and I'm like, yeah,
they're spot on.
Like they really getspecificity.
(09:21):
Like you want to be better atpull-ups, you have to do the
pull-ups.
Like that's great that you'redoing pull-downs with 150% of
your body weight, but maybethere's some transference there.
But if you want to get betterat pull-ups.
You better like, get better atpull-ups and you better get
better at rucking.
And then you better get betterat running without weight.
(09:41):
You know regular distance runand you better get better at
pushups.
Like they just were spot onwith what they needed.
And then we can take that astep further and say they were
spot on with what military guysneed.
Right, because you know ifthey're fighting, you know at
war, you know God forbid, butthat is what they are paid to do
(10:01):
.
If they are, you know, I mean300 pound bench press isn't
going to help them, but pull-upsare, because if they've got to
get up and out of places quickly, they can.
Running certainly is right,rucking certainly is.
They've got to get from placeto place.
I mean rucking might be theabsolute most specific thing
that they're going to be calledon to do into action, like
(10:21):
they're always moving andthey're always carrying things.
So you know For sure it is agreat activity.
But the debate it wasn't adebate, it was a question.
It was, but does that make me abetter 5K runner?
And the answer is no, and infact it's the opposite Could
potentially make you slower, andthat is because of specificity.
(10:46):
So to be good at any enduranceevent, it comes down to three
things VO2 max, your lactatethreshold or anaerobic threshold
, and that is the point to whereyour body produces lactic acid
and gets rid of it.
So the more fit you are, themore you can tolerate lactic
(11:09):
acid.
That is the anaerobic threshold.
It's not that you produce less,you don't.
Your body gets more accustomedto getting rid of it.
So that's what the lactate oranaerobic threshold is.
It's called the same thing.
And if you ever hear the termventilation threshold, it's the
same thing.
It all means the same thing.
And then, finally, there'srunning economy, which is the
(11:37):
biomechanics side of things.
So let me back up, because Ithink I explained OBL-A very
well onset of blood, lactic acidaccumulation.
But VO2 max is just the maximalamount of oxygen your body can
produce in a minute and it isbased on your body weight.
Now sometimes people think soif I carry more body weight,
it's going to improve my VO2 max.
But no, that's not it.
(11:58):
What happens is to improve yourVO2 max.
What we need to do is work atintensities close to your VO2
max, because rememberspecificity so if your VO2 max
is the maximal amount of oxygenyour body can produce in a
minute, then the only way toimprove that is to work close to
(12:21):
that specificity, to be a great5k runner or to even get better
at 5k is then you have toimprove your VO2 max.
So the way to improve your VO2max is to train close to your
VO2 max.
Now, what VO2 max really does,then, what happens when we train
(12:42):
close to it, is the leftventricle of your heart actually
gets a little bit bigger, andif it gets bigger, it's able to
pump more blood on contraction,all right.
So when the heart gets a littlestronger, it pumps more blood
per beat.
If it pumps more blood per beat, then it's improving what we
(13:04):
call cardiac output, which meansmore blood per minute, get it.
And so if we're pumping moreblood per minute and our weight
stays the same, we're improvingour VO2 max.
So that is one of the things wehave to have to be a better
runner, better walker whateverbetter power walker, better
(13:26):
skier, better swimmer.
All these things is VO2 max.
Obl or lactate threshold, as Isaid, is the second thing, and
that means that our body getsmore accustomed, it gets trained
to being able to deal with morelactic acid.
And then the third thing I wantto spend the most time on is
running economy or biomechanics.
(13:47):
It's critical.
Those are the three things thatmake us better at things.
Vo2 max is very genetic.
There's only a 10 to 15%improvement we're going to get
in our VO2 max, so it doesn't goup a lot.
So somebody like LanceArmstrong was born and made 86,
(14:13):
was born and made like 86.
Well, do the math.
Look where he started thatright.
So it was already elite beforehe ever trained.
So there is just a geneticcomponent with it.
That's, you know fine, doesn'tmean people can't get better,
but it does mean if you're goingto win seven tour de frances,
you probably better have thegenetics for it.
And I don't want to hearanything about the doping.
I get all that, but they alldid it.
He was still elite.
Anybody at that level isabsolutely elite.
(14:35):
There's not any doping effectthat's going to change an 87 vo2
max.
So yes, he and many cheated andno, it's not cool, but at the
same time they are all elite.
So when people say I wouldn'thave done that without it,
that's not true.
That just means none ofwouldn't have done that without
it.
That's not true.
That just means none of themwould have been doing it, and
he's still the one because hewas just that much more fit.
(14:55):
Now the ventilation or anaerobicthreshold is very trainable,
like if we spend time at ourlactate threshold, we will get
our body more conditioned tobeing able to tolerate more
lactic acid.
So if you want to be a better 5krunner, but all of your runs
(15:17):
are easy, you're not trainingspecifically to that system.
So you know you do what so manyof these little kids do, or so
many of these people who areinexperienced in these races do,
right.
It's kind of like when my dadused to tell me my eyes are
bigger than my stomach and Iorder too much food than I can't
eat.
It's the same thing.
So it's we run in a 5k, we seeeverybody, we get excited.
(15:42):
You know the guy bangs the gunand we fire out and people run
like they've been doing 5Kstheir whole life and they
haven't.
And in a quarter mile they'rewalking right.
So it's kind of the same thing,like, if you haven't conditioned
yourself to hold a steady fastpace, you're not going to be
able to hold a steady fast pace,and I get it.
(16:03):
That's very subjective.
What's steady is steady, butwhat's fast for one person is
slow to another, and vice versa.
So that's subjective.
But if you're going faster thanyou think you can because the
gun goes off, you're probablynot going to hold it unless
you've been doing that intraining.
So that's where, again,specificity comes in.
(16:25):
So we're going to have to runclose to that intensity that we
want to run in, if not at thatintensity and sometimes above
that intensity, so our body cando what it needs to do to
improve our VO2 max.
All right.
(16:46):
So running economy means likewhat your muscles, your joints
and your frequency of your legsand all those factors like how
much you weigh does impactrunning economy.
The more you weigh, by the way,the worse your running economy
is.
So actually you'd say, wellthen, wearing a backpack and
(17:07):
running is going to improve myrunning economy.
But no, because what it does isit slows your gait down really
bad.
It changes your contact time onthe ground, meaning that the
studies have shown like ifyou're carrying more weight like
a backpack, then your contacttime actually slows down.
To run faster, you want fastercontact time, right?
(17:31):
It's crazy that these Garminwatches and I think Apple
watches do it too.
But they can measure that theycan tell you how long your foot
was on the ground.
The fastest runners have theshortest amount of contact time.
It's kind of like when I'vecoached people and I still do
some of that, but I used to do alot of it for running Like it's
(17:52):
like running on hot coals, likeyou have to think that in your
mind you know, put down, pick up, put down, pick up, put down,
like it's a pat pat, pat, patpat.
It's not really this elongatedslow motion, it's quick
frequency and that is part ofrunning economy.
Not only are you turning yourlegs over quicker so you can go
(18:13):
faster, but it's actually usingless quad, because the slower
the ground contact time is andthe longer your stride is when
you're running faster, the moreeccentric contraction there is
when your foot lands, whichmeans your quads are going to
fatigue.
(18:33):
So if we make the load heavier,what we're actually doing is
conditioning our body to have aslower contact time, a longer
stride, which iscounterintuitive.
But it goes against distancerunning and we're training it to
essentially go slower and causemore fatigue, even when we take
(18:58):
our backpack off.
Because the central nervoussystem, which I talked about
yesterday, needs to be trainedas well.
It wants the same speed thatyou're going to do and, if
anything, you need to learn tomove quicker and not slower when
it comes to all forms ofrunning even slower jogging.
(19:18):
We should learn to have ashorter stride, less ground
contact time, but maybe elongatea little bit less so we slow
down.
The other negative thing thatrucking pack does to improve
your 5k mind you don't besending me an email saying
rucking's great, because I'll100% agree with you it's great
(19:40):
for rucking.
It's great for carrying heavyloads and learning how to train
that way.
It's great for people thatcan't run.
They can power walk, but thedifference with running just
affects their joints.
Everybody's different, or maybeyou just like it, so it's great
for that, but it will not makeyou a faster 5k runner.
The second thing that makes itvery, very counterproductive is
(20:02):
the fact that it changes theload on your body.
So when you're wearing abackpack, what it does is it
puts the weight on your upperspine, which then shifts your
weight towards what we call yourposterior chain.
So instead of slightly hunchedforward, lifting your knees, you
end up more of a heel strikerand more of a back of your foot
(20:27):
to heel striker, like, maybe youcan condition yourself to not
be a heel striker, but what youend up doing is at least your
midfoot and back is hitting theground, and that is not
conducive to running a faster 5k.
We know now that heel strikingisn't true.
They taught that in the 70s forsome ridiculous reason.
(20:49):
Actually, let me tell you aquick story.
It's not that ridiculous.
They did it to sell shoes, so,like Nike was famous for that.
So they padded up the heels andthey're like you know, try
running without shoes on yourheels and see what happens.
And so people didn't like, man,that hurts, right, because
there's not a lot of tissue backthere, it's all on your
(21:11):
calcaneus, on your heel bone,and so it hurts.
And oh, but slip these on.
You throw on these comfortablerunning shoes.
Now everybody's heel striking.
Well, they've sort of admitted.
Well, other people blew thewhistle, but you know that
essentially was a marketingcampaign to get people to buy
these fancy, you know, jazzed uprunning shoes.
Now they've switched it andsaid everybody needs to, you
(21:32):
know, be a midfoot runner,because now they're selling.
You know what the heck are theycalled now they are, well, the
things in the bottom of the shoe.
They're making everybody goquicker in the middle and I
don't remember the word, but inany event.
So, anyway, don't fall for allthat marketing BS.
But the bottom line is that'swhere it all came from.
We don't want you on your heelwhen you're running faster.
(21:54):
Whether you're jogging, whetheryou're running, whether you're
sprinting, you're not supposedto be on your heel.
You're supposed to be midfoot,right Midfoot, and if you're
sprinting, you your heel.
You're supposed to be midfoot,right Midfoot, and if you're
sprinting, you're on your toes.
That's just the way you'regoing to go faster.
So it's not economical to runon your heels.
You're going to cause, you'regoing to cause knee pain I mean,
that's one side of it butyou're also just not going to go
(22:14):
faster because you're reallygoing to contract your quads and
your quads are going to giveout.
So wearing a heavy backpack orany weighted backpack is just
going to throw off yourbiomechanics.
Put you back on your heels,straighten out your spine,
because how on earth are yougoing to sit there and bend
forward with 40 pounds on yourback?
So it's going to change yourentire posture, a posture that
(22:37):
is not meant for running.
I mean, they're really notmeant for that, like they're
meant for hiking, they're meantfor walking.
That's sort of the idea.
I mean, yeah, the military guysjob a little bit with that, but
mostly the rucking is abouttraveling long distance with
weight and getting economical atthat and getting efficient at
that.
They are two different things,all right.
(23:02):
So kind of to wrap that up, whatwe have to remember is that
when we want to run faster andI'm not talking about the VO2
max covered it, not talkingabout the anaerobic threshold
covered it, not talking aboutthe running economy covering it
and finishing it up with this isthat it all comes down to
stride rate and stride length.
(23:24):
Okay, stride rate, how quickyou're turning over.
Stride length, how far you getout To run faster.
They both have to improve andeach person is different in
exactly which area that they'remore dominant at, but the bottom
line is to get faster.
We all need to increase ourfrequency.
We know that we're going tohave a certain stride length.
(23:48):
We're just going to have that.
Again, your watches can measurethat.
So stride rate faster withstride length, which is already
there, is going to equate tofaster running.
The engine is what takes youthere and the engine is your VO2
max.
The lactate threshold is whattakes you there and the engine
is your VO2 max.
The lactate threshold is whatkeeps you there.
(24:11):
But the one you have the mostcontrol over which I think is so
cool, which is so under trainedin the endurance world is
running economy.
We can do drills to improve it.
We can do drills to work on ourform and know what to do with
our arms, how to lift our knees,how to lift our toes, how to
(24:32):
get quicker turnover.
We can do drills to do it.
And what was so funny when Iwas finishing up my research on
this last night is that one ofthe drills that is recommended
is the total opposite of rucking.
It's running downhill, becauseto increase your stride,
(24:54):
turnover, run downhill.
You can't do that with a ruck,by the way.
I mean you could, but you'reprobably going to turn into a
boulder and start rollingdownhill.
I don't recommend it.
But it's the opposite of whatyou think.
You don't want to make yourselfheavier.
If anything, you want to makeyourself lighter and work on
turnover, be smooth, like thebest drills to get faster.
(25:17):
And I think running economy iscool because we have total
control over it, like it'ssomething that we can practice
and it's fun to practice, likefor me when I run.
I always work on that.
Like certain parts of my run,even on an easy run, I'll say
wait a minute, what are youdoing?
Are you lifting your knees?
Are you lifting your toes?
Are you dorsiflexing, likethese are important things and
(25:39):
you know one of the reasons Imean we all slow down as we get
older and that's okay, at leastwe're still going.
You know, one of the things thatwe lose is that running economy
and I have, I mean, shoot, I'verun five K's in the 19s before,
when I was in my forties.
Well, not now, you know, andit's going to slow down.
But I can promise you one ofthe big things we lose that is
(26:02):
correctable is the runningeconomy things.
We can do things in the gym orwe can do things at the track,
or we can do things in thestreet to improve our running
economy, like doing strideswhere we work on, say, 100 yards
of just really thinking aboutthat running on fire example,
(26:22):
where you're just like reallytrying to lift your feet and
lifting your toes.
Like we can do drills toimprove how quickly we turn our
legs over.
As we age, we start to losesome of the fast twitch muscle
fiber, so we start to lose thethings that helped us move our
legs quicker.
We can work on those things.
So if you you want to improveyou're running All right, any
(26:48):
sport, but running this one'svery specific to that.
It's not about rucking andputting on heavy weights.
It's about thinking aboutspecificity and doing the exact
motions you should be doing tomake yourself faster.
All right, hope that helps.
Please share this with otherpeople and I will see you next
time.
Thank you for listening totoday's program.
(27:12):
I ask you to please follow theshow wherever you get your
podcasts and please selectautomatic download, because that
really helps the show.
Now I want to thank OverheadDoor of Daytona Beach, the
area's premier garage doorcompany.
They have the best product.
They have the best service.
(27:32):
I personally vouch for Jeff andZach Hawk, the owners.
They are great people with agreat company.
If you have any garage doorneeds, please give them a shout
at 386-222-3165.
Welcome to there is a Method to the Madness.
My name is Rob Maxwell and I'man exercise physiologist and
personal trainer.
I am the owner of Maxwell'sFitness Programs and I've been
in business since 1994.
The purpose of this podcast isto get to the real deal of what
really works and, mostimportantly, why things work.
(00:21):
Hence the name.
There is a a method to themadness.
Before I get to today's show, Iwant to thank Jonathan and Lynn
Gildan of the Gildan Group atRealty Pros.
They are committed to providingthe highest level of customer
service in home sales.
Why don't you give them a shoutand figure out what your home
is worth?
386-451-2412.
(00:48):
Good morning or good afternoonor good evening whenever you are
listening to this podcast.
This is part two of theSpecificity podcast and I think
this is.
I'm really looking forward tothis because this is information
that I think is reallyimportant and I like digging
into the science and doing alittle bit of research prior to
(01:10):
podcasts, prior to emails.
I mean, I have the information,I know the topics, I know all
that, but I also like to pullout like statistics and things.
It's pretty cool and you know,I love to learn, as I've said.
So I always like going back inand reviewing stuff that I have
learned before.
So it's important for thatreason because, as I said, that
(01:34):
you know I like to do it andthat's important.
And it's important because it'sinformation that you really
need, because too often peopleare simply training the way they
see other people training orthey're being misled by people
who are maybe trying to be niceto tell them to do certain
things, and we have to learnthat, like we are our own people
(01:59):
with our own goals and our ownbodies, so we have to really do
what is absolutely best for us,and that is a big part where
specificity comes in.
So in part one of this, if youmissed it, I mean you could
probably listen to this and beabsolutely fine.
But if you want to go back,just go to the previous episode,
(02:22):
because I talked about all thedifferent body systems and then
specifically the ones that areimpacted by specificity.
So you might want to get alittle bit of a say, anatomy and
physiology lesson there or, asI said, you can just continue to
listen.
But that's what part one was,was really talking about the
bodily systems and I spent a lotof time on the skeletal system
(02:47):
and on the endocrine system,nervous system and, of course,
cardiovascular and muscularsystem, which are a huge part of
specificity.
But today I'm going to get intolike the real specifics, so the
specifics of specificity, ofspecificity, and I'm going to
(03:10):
talk today about like thecardiovascular side of things or
the different modes ofcardiovascular training, where
people really have to understandspecificity.
So, as I said yesterday, thesimplest way to explain it is to
say that if you want to runfaster, then you need to run
(03:32):
Right.
So that's at the simplest rootsof it.
And all that came about, by theway, like this was kind of
discovered with specificity withVO2 max, way, way back.
Specificity with VO2 max way,way back.
I should have done my researchon this one, but I do think it
was in the 1970s.
They were measuring FrankShorter's VO2 max and he is was
(03:59):
at that time an elite marathonrunner runners, one of the
greatest the United States hasever had, and he was an icon in
running.
He's still around, but I mean,he was definitely an icon in the
1970s and they measured his vo2max, originally on an exercise
bike, and they were kind ofblown away that his vo2 max
(04:21):
wasn't that good.
Like I don't quote me, chat,gbt it when you hang up and find
out for sure.
But I believe his originalnumbers were in like the fifties
, on the bike that is.
And that's a good number, likewe'll take it.
But for an elite professionalrunner, distance runner, it's
not like Lance Armstrong's was87, for example.
(04:44):
So like they get into the 80s,these elites, and that's kind of
where they expected his to be,but it was in the 50s.
So then they got smart.
They're like, well, he's arunner and he's on a bike.
And some people of course werelike, well, that shouldn't
matter, vo2's, vo2.
But the others, maybe the Idon't want to say smarter people
(05:04):
in the room, but maybe the oneswith I don't know more curious,
said well, maybe if we testedthem on a treadmill we would get
different results.
And they did, and they did getdifferent results.
And then I believe his numberswell, I know his numbers were
way higher than what they got onthe bike and I believe it was
closer to what they expected,being at the elite level, which
(05:26):
really started getting them intothe principle of specificity
and how much it matters.
So you know, before that a lotof people were saying, well,
cross train, cross train, whichis true.
I mean, cross training meansthat you can do different
activities to get the sameresults.
Like you can bike and improveyour cardiovascular fitness, you
can run.
You can do different activitiesto get the same results.
(05:46):
Like you can bike and improveyour cardiovascular fitness, you
can run, you can improve yourcardiovascular fitness.
All this is true.
You can swim and you canimprove your cardiovascular
fitness.
But prior to digging intospecificity, they thought like
cycling might make you a betterrunner and running might make
you a better cyclist, and so onand so on.
(06:06):
And it doesn't.
Does it all improve yourfitness?
Does it all get you to animproved cardiovascular system?
Of course it does.
So if you're cross-training toimprove your health and fitness,
awesome, and I suggest it.
It's a great way to do it.
There's more variety, maybeless risk for overuse, injuries
(06:27):
it's great.
But if you're trying to getgood at one thing, then you have
to focus on the principle ofspecificity.
So that is what I'm going to dotoday.
(06:48):
I'm going to use running as agreat example of how to
understand specificity and, asyou see, just in that example
alone, it's just morecomplicated than if you want to
do this.
You've got to get better.
So we're taking a system itselfand saying that's not even true
(07:08):
, like you can't just do cardioand then be good at all cardio.
You have to do specific cardioand we have to do specific
things.
Okay, so this came up becausethere's a great conversation
about somebody who was followingsomebody who was really into
rucking.
(07:28):
Okay, and rucking, and they maynot have called it that, but
that's what it is.
That's basically running orhiking or jogging with a
backpack and they have, you know, different weighted backpacks.
I think they have 20-poundweighted backpacks.
I think they have 20 poundweighted backpacks now because
rucking's become really popular.
They have 40 pounders, probablyeven heavier, and rucking is
(07:53):
great.
You know, it kind of starts alittle bit with the military,
like military guys.
One of the guys I trained for awhile his goal was to get into
West Point.
That was his goal.
That was him and his dad's goalfor him and I worked with him.
This was five, six, seven yearsnow.
Thankfully I can say he gotinto West Point and he graduated
(08:15):
.
But his goal was to get in andmeet the physical standards,
because he already had the SATsand grades and he was very close
in the physical.
But there was a couple ofthings he needed to do and he
gave me his list of everythinghe had to do.
It was pull-ups and push-upsand there was fast running
involved, meaning he had to meeta mile time or a mile and a
(08:38):
half.
Honestly, I don't rememberwhich one it was, but I know it
was a middle distance event andhe had a rucking event.
So he had to cover a certainamount of distance with a
certain amount of weight and theweight had to be on his back
and he had to hold somethinglike a gun style.
You know, whatever the weightthat is, he had to carry that.
So there was all these thingsthat were very specific to what
(09:00):
he had to do.
And that's kind of cool,honestly, about the way the
military academies preparepeople is they actually know
their shit.
Like he was showing me some oftheir stuff that their exercise
physiologists, you know, wantthem to do and I'm like, yeah,
they're spot on.
Like they really getspecificity.
(09:21):
Like you want to be better atpull-ups, you have to do the
pull-ups.
Like that's great that you'redoing pull-downs with 150% of
your body weight, but maybethere's some transference there.
But if you want to get betterat pull-ups.
You better like, get better atpull-ups and you better get
better at rucking.
And then you better get betterat running without weight.
(09:41):
You know regular distance runand you better get better at
pushups.
Like they just were spot onwith what they needed.
And then we can take that astep further and say they were
spot on with what military guysneed.
Right, because you know ifthey're fighting, you know at
war, you know God forbid, butthat is what they are paid to do
(10:01):
.
If they are, you know, I mean300 pound bench press isn't
going to help them, but pull-upsare, because if they've got to
get up and out of places quickly, they can.
Running certainly is right,rucking certainly is.
They've got to get from placeto place.
I mean rucking might be theabsolute most specific thing
that they're going to be calledon to do into action, like
(10:21):
they're always moving andthey're always carrying things.
So you know For sure it is agreat activity.
But the debate it wasn't adebate, it was a question.
It was, but does that make me abetter 5K runner?
And the answer is no, and infact it's the opposite Could
potentially make you slower, andthat is because of specificity.
(10:46):
So to be good at any enduranceevent, it comes down to three
things VO2 max, your lactatethreshold or anaerobic threshold
, and that is the point to whereyour body produces lactic acid
and gets rid of it.
So the more fit you are, themore you can tolerate lactic
(11:09):
acid.
That is the anaerobic threshold.
It's not that you produce less,you don't.
Your body gets more accustomedto getting rid of it.
So that's what the lactate oranaerobic threshold is.
It's called the same thing.
And if you ever hear the termventilation threshold, it's the
same thing.
It all means the same thing.
And then, finally, there'srunning economy, which is the
(11:37):
biomechanics side of things.
So let me back up, because Ithink I explained OBL-A very
well onset of blood, lactic acidaccumulation.
But VO2 max is just the maximalamount of oxygen your body can
produce in a minute and it isbased on your body weight.
Now sometimes people think soif I carry more body weight,
it's going to improve my VO2 max.
But no, that's not it.
(11:58):
What happens is to improve yourVO2 max.
What we need to do is work atintensities close to your VO2
max, because rememberspecificity so if your VO2 max
is the maximal amount of oxygenyour body can produce in a
minute, then the only way toimprove that is to work close to
(12:21):
that specificity, to be a great5k runner or to even get better
at 5k is then you have toimprove your VO2 max.
So the way to improve your VO2max is to train close to your
VO2 max.
Now, what VO2 max really does,then, what happens when we train
(12:42):
close to it, is the leftventricle of your heart actually
gets a little bit bigger, andif it gets bigger, it's able to
pump more blood on contraction,all right.
So when the heart gets a littlestronger, it pumps more blood
per beat.
If it pumps more blood per beat, then it's improving what we
(13:04):
call cardiac output, which meansmore blood per minute, get it.
And so if we're pumping moreblood per minute and our weight
stays the same, we're improvingour VO2 max.
So that is one of the things wehave to have to be a better
runner, better walker whateverbetter power walker, better
(13:26):
skier, better swimmer.
All these things is VO2 max.
Obl or lactate threshold, as Isaid, is the second thing, and
that means that our body getsmore accustomed, it gets trained
to being able to deal with morelactic acid.
And then the third thing I wantto spend the most time on is
running economy or biomechanics.
(13:47):
It's critical.
Those are the three things thatmake us better at things.
Vo2 max is very genetic.
There's only a 10 to 15%improvement we're going to get
in our VO2 max, so it doesn't goup a lot.
So somebody like LanceArmstrong was born and made 86,
(14:13):
was born and made like 86.
Well, do the math.
Look where he started thatright.
So it was already elite beforehe ever trained.
So there is just a geneticcomponent with it.
That's, you know fine, doesn'tmean people can't get better,
but it does mean if you're goingto win seven tour de frances,
you probably better have thegenetics for it.
And I don't want to hearanything about the doping.
I get all that, but they alldid it.
He was still elite.
Anybody at that level isabsolutely elite.
(14:35):
There's not any doping effectthat's going to change an 87 vo2
max.
So yes, he and many cheated andno, it's not cool, but at the
same time they are all elite.
So when people say I wouldn'thave done that without it,
that's not true.
That just means none ofwouldn't have done that without
it.
That's not true.
That just means none of themwould have been doing it, and
he's still the one because hewas just that much more fit.
(14:55):
Now the ventilation or anaerobicthreshold is very trainable,
like if we spend time at ourlactate threshold, we will get
our body more conditioned tobeing able to tolerate more
lactic acid.
So if you want to be a better 5krunner, but all of your runs
(15:17):
are easy, you're not trainingspecifically to that system.
So you know you do what so manyof these little kids do, or so
many of these people who areinexperienced in these races do,
right.
It's kind of like when my dadused to tell me my eyes are
bigger than my stomach and Iorder too much food than I can't
eat.
It's the same thing.
So it's we run in a 5k, we seeeverybody, we get excited.
(15:42):
You know the guy bangs the gunand we fire out and people run
like they've been doing 5Kstheir whole life and they
haven't.
And in a quarter mile they'rewalking right.
So it's kind of the same thing,like, if you haven't conditioned
yourself to hold a steady fastpace, you're not going to be
able to hold a steady fast pace,and I get it.
(16:03):
That's very subjective.
What's steady is steady, butwhat's fast for one person is
slow to another, and vice versa.
So that's subjective.
But if you're going faster thanyou think you can because the
gun goes off, you're probablynot going to hold it unless
you've been doing that intraining.
So that's where, again,specificity comes in.
(16:25):
So we're going to have to runclose to that intensity that we
want to run in, if not at thatintensity and sometimes above
that intensity, so our body cando what it needs to do to
improve our VO2 max.
All right.
(16:46):
So running economy means likewhat your muscles, your joints
and your frequency of your legsand all those factors like how
much you weigh does impactrunning economy.
The more you weigh, by the way,the worse your running economy
is.
So actually you'd say, wellthen, wearing a backpack and
(17:07):
running is going to improve myrunning economy.
But no, because what it does isit slows your gait down really
bad.
It changes your contact time onthe ground, meaning that the
studies have shown like ifyou're carrying more weight like
a backpack, then your contacttime actually slows down.
To run faster, you want fastercontact time, right?
(17:31):
It's crazy that these Garminwatches and I think Apple
watches do it too.
But they can measure that theycan tell you how long your foot
was on the ground.
The fastest runners have theshortest amount of contact time.
It's kind of like when I'vecoached people and I still do
some of that, but I used to do alot of it for running Like it's
(17:52):
like running on hot coals, likeyou have to think that in your
mind you know, put down, pick up, put down, pick up, put down,
like it's a pat pat, pat, patpat.
It's not really this elongatedslow motion, it's quick
frequency and that is part ofrunning economy.
Not only are you turning yourlegs over quicker so you can go
(18:13):
faster, but it's actually usingless quad, because the slower
the ground contact time is andthe longer your stride is when
you're running faster, the moreeccentric contraction there is
when your foot lands, whichmeans your quads are going to
fatigue.
(18:33):
So if we make the load heavier,what we're actually doing is
conditioning our body to have aslower contact time, a longer
stride, which iscounterintuitive.
But it goes against distancerunning and we're training it to
essentially go slower and causemore fatigue, even when we take
(18:58):
our backpack off.
Because the central nervoussystem, which I talked about
yesterday, needs to be trainedas well.
It wants the same speed thatyou're going to do and, if
anything, you need to learn tomove quicker and not slower when
it comes to all forms ofrunning even slower jogging.
(19:18):
We should learn to have ashorter stride, less ground
contact time, but maybe elongatea little bit less so we slow
down.
The other negative thing thatrucking pack does to improve
your 5k mind you don't besending me an email saying
rucking's great, because I'll100% agree with you it's great
(19:40):
for rucking.
It's great for carrying heavyloads and learning how to train
that way.
It's great for people thatcan't run.
They can power walk, but thedifference with running just
affects their joints.
Everybody's different, or maybeyou just like it, so it's great
for that, but it will not makeyou a faster 5k runner.
The second thing that makes itvery, very counterproductive is
(20:02):
the fact that it changes theload on your body.
So when you're wearing abackpack, what it does is it
puts the weight on your upperspine, which then shifts your
weight towards what we call yourposterior chain.
So instead of slightly hunchedforward, lifting your knees, you
end up more of a heel strikerand more of a back of your foot
(20:27):
to heel striker, like, maybe youcan condition yourself to not
be a heel striker, but what youend up doing is at least your
midfoot and back is hitting theground, and that is not
conducive to running a faster 5k.
We know now that heel strikingisn't true.
They taught that in the 70s forsome ridiculous reason.
(20:49):
Actually, let me tell you aquick story.
It's not that ridiculous.
They did it to sell shoes, so,like Nike was famous for that.
So they padded up the heels andthey're like you know, try
running without shoes on yourheels and see what happens.
And so people didn't like, man,that hurts, right, because
there's not a lot of tissue backthere, it's all on your
(21:11):
calcaneus, on your heel bone,and so it hurts.
And oh, but slip these on.
You throw on these comfortablerunning shoes.
Now everybody's heel striking.
Well, they've sort of admitted.
Well, other people blew thewhistle, but you know that
essentially was a marketingcampaign to get people to buy
these fancy, you know, jazzed uprunning shoes.
Now they've switched it andsaid everybody needs to, you
(21:32):
know, be a midfoot runner,because now they're selling.
You know what the heck are theycalled now they are, well, the
things in the bottom of the shoe.
They're making everybody goquicker in the middle and I
don't remember the word, but inany event.
So, anyway, don't fall for allthat marketing BS.
But the bottom line is that'swhere it all came from.
We don't want you on your heelwhen you're running faster.
(21:54):
Whether you're jogging, whetheryou're running, whether you're
sprinting, you're not supposedto be on your heel.
You're supposed to be midfoot,right Midfoot, and if you're
sprinting, you your heel.
You're supposed to be midfoot,right Midfoot, and if you're
sprinting, you're on your toes.
That's just the way you'regoing to go faster.
So it's not economical to runon your heels.
You're going to cause, you'regoing to cause knee pain I mean,
that's one side of it butyou're also just not going to go
(22:14):
faster because you're reallygoing to contract your quads and
your quads are going to giveout.
So wearing a heavy backpack orany weighted backpack is just
going to throw off yourbiomechanics.
Put you back on your heels,straighten out your spine,
because how on earth are yougoing to sit there and bend
forward with 40 pounds on yourback?
So it's going to change yourentire posture, a posture that
(22:37):
is not meant for running.
I mean, they're really notmeant for that, like they're
meant for hiking, they're meantfor walking.
That's sort of the idea.
I mean, yeah, the military guysjob a little bit with that, but
mostly the rucking is abouttraveling long distance with
weight and getting economical atthat and getting efficient at
that.
They are two different things,all right.
(23:02):
So kind of to wrap that up, whatwe have to remember is that
when we want to run faster andI'm not talking about the VO2
max covered it, not talkingabout the anaerobic threshold
covered it, not talking aboutthe running economy covering it
and finishing it up with this isthat it all comes down to
stride rate and stride length.
(23:24):
Okay, stride rate, how quickyou're turning over.
Stride length, how far you getout To run faster.
They both have to improve andeach person is different in
exactly which area that they'remore dominant at, but the bottom
line is to get faster.
We all need to increase ourfrequency.
We know that we're going tohave a certain stride length.
(23:48):
We're just going to have that.
Again, your watches can measurethat.
So stride rate faster withstride length, which is already
there, is going to equate tofaster running.
The engine is what takes youthere and the engine is your VO2
max.
The lactate threshold is whattakes you there and the engine
is your VO2 max.
The lactate threshold is whatkeeps you there.
(24:11):
But the one you have the mostcontrol over which I think is so
cool, which is so under trainedin the endurance world is
running economy.
We can do drills to improve it.
We can do drills to work on ourform and know what to do with
our arms, how to lift our knees,how to lift our toes, how to
(24:32):
get quicker turnover.
We can do drills to do it.
And what was so funny when Iwas finishing up my research on
this last night is that one ofthe drills that is recommended
is the total opposite of rucking.
It's running downhill, becauseto increase your stride,
(24:54):
turnover, run downhill.
You can't do that with a ruck,by the way.
I mean you could, but you'reprobably going to turn into a
boulder and start rollingdownhill.
I don't recommend it.
But it's the opposite of whatyou think.
You don't want to make yourselfheavier.
If anything, you want to makeyourself lighter and work on
turnover, be smooth, like thebest drills to get faster.
(25:17):
And I think running economy iscool because we have total
control over it, like it'ssomething that we can practice
and it's fun to practice, likefor me when I run.
I always work on that.
Like certain parts of my run,even on an easy run, I'll say
wait a minute, what are youdoing?
Are you lifting your knees?
Are you lifting your toes?
Are you dorsiflexing, likethese are important things and
(25:39):
you know one of the reasons Imean we all slow down as we get
older and that's okay, at leastwe're still going.
You know, one of the things thatwe lose is that running economy
and I have, I mean, shoot, I'verun five K's in the 19s before,
when I was in my forties.
Well, not now, you know, andit's going to slow down.
But I can promise you one ofthe big things we lose that is
(26:02):
correctable is the runningeconomy things.
We can do things in the gym orwe can do things at the track,
or we can do things in thestreet to improve our running
economy, like doing strideswhere we work on, say, 100 yards
of just really thinking aboutthat running on fire example,
(26:22):
where you're just like reallytrying to lift your feet and
lifting your toes.
Like we can do drills toimprove how quickly we turn our
legs over.
As we age, we start to losesome of the fast twitch muscle
fiber, so we start to lose thethings that helped us move our
legs quicker.
We can work on those things.
So if you you want to improveyou're running All right, any
(26:48):
sport, but running this one'svery specific to that.
It's not about rucking andputting on heavy weights.
It's about thinking aboutspecificity and doing the exact
motions you should be doing tomake yourself faster.
All right, hope that helps.
Please share this with otherpeople and I will see you next
time.
Thank you for listening totoday's program.
(27:12):
I ask you to please follow theshow wherever you get your
podcasts and please selectautomatic download, because that
really helps the show.
Now I want to thank OverheadDoor of Daytona Beach, the
area's premier garage doorcompany.
They have the best product.
They have the best service.
(27:32):
I personally vouch for Jeff andZach Hawk, the owners.
They are great people with agreat company.
If you have any garage doorneeds, please give them a shout
at 386-222-3165.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.