The Children Are Not Alright: 86

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Before I get started with this episode, I want to let you know that
it covers the topics of philicide infantaside and racism, as well as a
brief mention of sexual abuse and thediscussion of alleged sexual assault of an inmate
by prison employees. These alleged sexualassaults are, in my opinion, a

(00:23):
contrived story, so there's that extralayer of ick. I'm reviewing the Susan
Smith case from episode twenty one andtalking about her behavior behind bars since her
conviction. This won't be a graphicepisode, but the case is intense.
So if this one isn't for you, please take care of yourself first and

(00:46):
I'll see you next time. It'sfine. Also, this is not an
episode for the little ones. Andso here we go. Hold on,

(01:22):
Hi, this is Carla, andwelcome back to There Might Be Cupcakes.
I apologize for the unintended long hiatus. It really bothers me. I hate
when life and health get in theway of talking to you and telling stories
to you and writing and all ofit. It's been a doozy of a

(01:42):
holiday season in their new year,and my plans went out the window.
Just as John Lennon said, lifeis what happens when you're making other plans
to be transparent and honest about mentalhealth. I struggled with the holidays this
year. It was one year sincelosing my partner in crime, Ellie the
Dockson and I haven't really talked aboutthis, but her loss could have been

(02:08):
prevented. I won't dwell on ithere, but I spent most of last
year reporting her VET to the Commonwealthof Virginia for maltreatment. So I don't
think I've had the time and spaceto grieve because of all the bureaucracy and
the paperwork and all of the phoneinterviews where I retold the story of her

(02:30):
last day and over and over.So I had to check out emotionally to
do all of that work in herhonor, to do all that for her.
Then the holidays hit. That's whenshe died, and I just didn't
film my celebratory self. But Itried nevertheless, and well, I just

(02:53):
can't push through stuff like healthy peoplecan. I try, but my immune
system laughs and everything gets inflamed andthe fatigue slaps me around. So I
was humbled and forced to rest andgrieve my very best girl. Then on
New Year's Day, which I plannedall this Stardiver stuff for not too much,

(03:19):
very reasonable for my health. Ihad podcast plans and personal plans and
David Bowie's moon Age Daydream queued upfor the very first thing to watch to
start off the new year, right, and my mother in law rector car.
We received the call during Bowie fromthe hospital. Off we go.

(03:40):
The summary is that her car wastotaled and she won't ever be driving again,
and she was miraculously and hurt.So all of January was dealing with
her insurance and a rental car,and her new car which was our rental

(04:01):
car, and our new car fortoting her around, and dealing with the
DMV switching over her license to anID and all that stress translates to flare
up after flare up, because myimmune system freaked out and went into emergency
mode. Then I got sick.Extra sick is what I call it when

(04:23):
I contract something beyond my daily chronicillnesses. I will spare you the great
details beyond it, involving antibotics andthe fact that I'm allergic to penicillin and
minor cycling the usual heavy headers,so I have to take the also rans
with scary side effects that knocked meout. The most recent one had his

(04:45):
entry on both drugs dot com andthe Mayo Clinic site that basically just says,
please don't take this drug. Themain side effect is torn tendons.
Yeah, that's the first time you'rehearing this, Mom. Sorry, I
didn't want to worry you. Whatthe actual torn tendon? Luckily, my

(05:05):
tendons are fine, other than justhurting as they usually do. Also,
my immune system sometimes fights antibiotics asif they were the true intruders. So
you get the picture. There's thatdown for the extra count. I feel
like twenty twenty three has been likethis. Whoosh, oh look my birthday.

(05:29):
Whoosh, what do you made?It's March? I have to do
another Christmas episode. Wait a minute, it's March. I can't with all
the above that's happened. I feellike my body is in March and my
head is somewhere back in the holidayseason. I'm really dizzy. So that's
where I've been. How you're y'all? You okay? I'm not having fun

(05:58):
and not podcasting, So if Iever go on hiatus again, please know
that I would rather be podcasting.I'm probably too fatigue to sleep, listening
to an audiobook, staring at theceiling and berating myself for not writing and
not podcasting, counting the days.It's my last episode, last Patreon activity,
and last sub stack email, whichall makes my health worse loavely vicious

(06:21):
circle. Enough about me, considerthat all one long apology as well as
an update, and let's just stopthere. This episode is part of reviewing
and celebrating the first five years ofmy podcast by going back to one of
my favorite episodes, number twenty one, nine Days and two car Seats,

(06:43):
in which I examined a local crimeto me, Susan Smith's murdering or her
two sons, Alexander and Michael Smith. It's one of my favorites because I'm
quite proud of it, and becauseI lived through it as a local and
doing so was obscenely heroin, soexploring it was cathartic. That's a fellow

(07:05):
inmates of Susan Smith describing something sheheard Susan say to her girlfriend during an
argument. If that gives you anyidea about what we're going to explore,
yeah, worse if you're not familiarwith the case. On October twenty fifth,

(07:26):
nineteen ninety four, Susan drove flashpush her car off the ramp into
John D. Long Lake in Union, South Carolina. She was not in
the vehicle, but her two youngboys were strapped into their car seats in
the backseat. She then pretended fornine days that a mysterious black man,

(07:47):
one of the most infamous instances ofthe quote shaggy haired Stranger's story, carjacked
her and kidnapped the children, devastatingher strange husband David, and the entire
your town an area. I livedin Charlotte, North Carolina at the time.
As I explained in the episode.This was also an infamous example of

(08:09):
what is known as a racial hoax. For those of you who have not
heard the episode, I've attached itto this one and you can listen to
it following. I apologize for thatclicking noise. That is my producer,
Arlow, the stabby pit He pacessometimes when I podcast, and I've just

(08:30):
learned to live with it. He'staking care of me, checking the perimeter
all that stuff. Thank you arelow lady on sweetheart. I love you
too. As I explained in theepisode, this was also an infamous example
of those a racial hoax. Forthose of you have not heard the episode,

(08:50):
I've attached it to this one andyou can listen to it following the
title of that episode, nine Daysand two car seats, comes from Susan's
admission to the sheriff that he knewthe whereabout some Michael and Alex nine days
later, which he repeated in hisnationally broadcast press conference. That episode,
episode twenty one will repeat as Isaid, in its entirety after this one,

(09:13):
if you hang on for patrons.I've also included its script at the
end of this episode script so youcan just keep reading. Smith was sentenced
to life with the possibility of pearlafter thirty years. She's eligible for pearle
starting November fourth, twenty twenty four, according to the South Carolina Department of
Corrections. So I will probably revisitthis case at that time because the experience

(09:39):
of being a local during those ninedays and during the trial still haunts me.
Those little boys pictures were in everypost office and grocery store in Charlotte,
and the news covered it every morning, every evening, every lunchtime.
It was awful. Smith has housedat least correctional at Greenwood, South Carolina,

(10:07):
and that is part of her sordidketchup story. So here we go.
Some people's lives are ground in deception. For Susan Smith, maintaining the
image of the model daughter, friend, wife, and mother was an arduous,
lifelong task and in the end itcollapsed. Maria Ephetams sends on the

(10:28):
mother. I would add to thatperfect inmate and perfect victim before I had
discussed her behavior as an inmate.I want to talk about her father's suicide
when she was six years old.Harry Vaughan shot himself in the stomach,
then immediately called for help. Iwondered, from my earlier training in suicideology

(10:50):
as a therapist, if this wasrather an attempt to draw attention to his
emotional pain and possibly reconcile with hiswife, since it occurred thirty eight days
after his divorce from her mother wasfinalized. This also makes me wonder about
Susan's later suicide attempts. Did theyhave the same motive in both She used
aspirin tablets, not an exceptionally lethalmethod. And it also makes me wonder

(11:16):
if the boy's murder was a macaband violent craft for help and attention,
mimicking what she saw in childhood.In the second suicide attempt at age eighteen,
she was hospitalized from November seventh toNovember fifteenth, nineteen eighty nine,
missing work at the grocery store,and it worked to garner attention. She
got David Smith's attention, her futurehusband and the boy's future father. They

(11:41):
married March fifteenth, So by nineteenshe had suffered the suicide of her father
twice, attempted to kill herself,had been sexually molested, and stumbled on
her father law near death by hisown hand and saved him. But twenty
she was a mother sins of themother. All this means is that Susan

(12:03):
learned to be the center of attention, specifically chaotic and painful attention, usually
at someone else's expense. In pain, at age twenty three, she would
have the attention of the entire country, at the expense of two young lives,
her family's broken hearts, and thepain and security of the local African
American community. The short timeline thatwill take us to Susan in prison and

(12:26):
the havoc she had wrought in there. Michael Daniel Smith was born October tenth
nineteen ninety one, Susan was twenty. Alexander Tyler Smith was born August fifth,
nineteen ninety three. Susan was twentytwo. September twenty first, nineteen
ninety four, Susan served David withdivorce papers on grounds of adultery. She

(12:48):
had sole custody with forty eight hoursnotice for visitation for David, so she
had full control. Susan turned twentythree five days later. Note Susan was
also adult trust. October seventeenth,nineteen ninety four, Susan's boss's son,
whom she was dating, wrote herDear Jane letter. One of his many

(13:09):
reasons for breaking up with her wasthat he did not want children. She
then showed up at his office physicaldemeanor, completely askew his letter in hand,
and had, for lack of abetter phrase, a public freak out.
She had to be escorted out bysecurity. That's how bad it was.

(13:31):
This display included a panicked recitation ofall of her other affairs and sexual
partners in a desperate effort to seemdesirable and lovable to this man. This
litney included Beverly Russell, her stepfather, who had started molesting her as a
teen, she was still having sexwith him, and yes, he was

(13:52):
still married to her mother. Giventheir power deferential, it's dicey to say
whether or not this was a truesexual relationship. Of course, rather than
be intrigued by her desirability, hernow ex boyfriend was duly horrified. October
twenty fifth, nineteen ninety four,one month and four days after the divorce

(14:13):
filing and eight days after the letter, Susan pushed the car into John D.
Long Lake, with the boys strappedinto their car seats inside, and
began the nine days racial hoax,claiming a black man a carjacker at a
stoplight. Details from the police report. Susan Vaughn Smith twenty three, five
ft three one thirty pounds, brownhair, brown eyes, Michael Daniel Smith

(14:37):
three, three feet thirty pounds,brown hair, brown eyes, Alexander Tyler
Smith one two foot four, twentyfive pounds, blonde hair, brown eyes.
Susan was wearing an Auburn University sweatshirt, which was the alma mater of

(14:58):
her work ex boyfriend. His breakup Dear Jane letter would be found in
the submerged car. Susan, itseemed never spent a moment alone, always
friends and family surrounded her. Itwas an odd change. The loneliness of
her past was suddenly replaced by absolutelove and support. Perhaps the horror of

(15:22):
what she did was somehow muted inthis atmosphere of sympathy and caring. Since
to the mother, I'm reminded ofa moment on the reality show The Real
Housewives of Orange County when Vicky Gumbilsonadmits to being complicit and her boyfriend's pretending
to have cancer, and states thatthe reason was, for the most part,

(15:43):
she wanted her friends to bring overcasseroles. As a chronically ill person,
I really sickened by people that pretendto be ill. She let her
friends think that someone they was goingto die a slow death so she could
have the ritual of visits and casseroles. Casseroles, And she said it so

(16:11):
calmly, just like, well,of course, casseroles. Why wouldn't I.
It chills me typing that out forthe script and now saying it to
you guys, to think that there'sa good chance that Susan thought that out.
The family, love, the communitysurrounding her, the news, the

(16:33):
wider community praying and sending cards,and good wishes the casseroles. She even
went right before she confessed to sheriffwhen he was pushing her, right before,
she said the children are not allright. She turned on the little

(16:56):
girl voice and asked the sheriff,who she'd known to childhood, will you
pray with me? Attention castles.So now we skip ahead to after Smith's
trial. On July twenty eighth,nineteen ninety five, she was sentenced to

(17:19):
life and sent to the Camille GriffinGraham Correctional Institution in Columbia, South Carolina,
a women's prison, and placed inthe administrative segregation unit for her own
safety given her crimes. However,she did not so much want to be
in Columbia because her ever supportive andwealthy mother and her mother's bank account were

(17:42):
too far away, near Leathwood CorrectionalInstitution for Women in Greenwood County. She
put in for a transfer to Leathwoodand it was denied. Remember how I
said she was in Leathwood. Now, Yeah, Susan hurt people again to

(18:02):
get what she wants. What shewanted this time was more visits than guests
for her mother. So Susan metAlfred Row Junior, the captain of security
at Emil Graham. He started workingthere in nineteen ninety eight. After ten
years of service in men's prison asthe captain, she was sentenced to life

(18:25):
on July twenty eighth, nineteeny fiveGraham. She met him on his first
night. She told him she hadremorse, though never why she did it,
no details, just I'm sorry.She would help him do his job
by informing on other inmates for infractions of the rules, like possessing drugs.

(18:48):
You know, snitches are not wellliked in prison. She kept him
company during long and boring night shifts. Then one night she passed him a
note like a teenager that said andI quote, I think I like you.

(19:10):
In September of two thousand, shewas supposed to be cleaning up the
gem after an event for the inmates, and she followed Raoul into the athletic
director's office where he was supervising her, and she said, quote, I
think I want to give you ablow job? Will you let me?
She was twenty nine years old.He led her forgetting himself in the moment

(19:34):
and forgetting that sex between a correctionsofficer and an inmate in the state of
South Carolina, even if it's consensual, is a felony because of the power
differential. It also requires the correctionsofficer to register as a sex offender and
may cost that officer up to tenyears in prison. In two thousand,

(19:56):
she was treated for a sexually transmitteddisease. Having found to have sex with
two prison guards, not just one. Susan saw an opportunity to get a
favor without anyone knowing they were doingher a favor. Albert Rowe. Rowe
was fired October sixth two thousand,and subsequently played guilty to the sexual charge

(20:18):
of avoiding the prison term. Hereceived five years of probation, four hundred
hours of community service, and lifetimeregistration on the National Sex Offender Registry.
She couldn't be around these two men, who, according to the law and
the defined power differential, assaulted hereven though she admittedly seduced them, so

(20:41):
she was transferred out of Camille GriffinGraham Correctional Institution in Columbia to the only
other appropriate women's unit in the state. You guessed it. Leith near her
mother and her mother's gracious pocketbook.Game set match and two men were left
in her as registered sex offenders theirlives ruined, just as two boys have

(21:03):
been left in her wake six yearsbefore. Roe's sexual offender link is in
the show notes and will be linkedto this episode's website entry. The statute
is linked to his profile. ButI'll read it here because it's pertinent to
what she did, and I'll betshe looked it up beforehand or asked her
attorney or another inmate about it.This is a specific statute for the American

(21:23):
state of South Carolina. Your locallaws may differ for this particular relationship between
prison garden prisoner. It was instituteddue to the high number of cases of
actual prisoner rape by prison authorities.Section forty four twenty three eleven fifty sexual
misconduct with an inmate, patient,or offender, as used in this section,

(21:45):
actor means an employee, volunteer,agent, or contractor of a public
entity that has statutory or contractual responsibilityfor inmates or patients. Can find in
a prison, jail, or mentahall facility. Actor includes individuals who supervise
inmate labor details outside of an institution, or who have supervisory responsibilities for offenders

(22:07):
on parole, probation or other communities. Supervision programs. Victim means an inmate
or patient who is combined or lawfullyor unlawfully absent from prison, jail,
or mental health facility, or whois offender on parole, probation, or
other community supervision programs. A victimis not capable of providing consent for sexual

(22:30):
intercourse or sexual contact with an actor. An actor is guilty of sexual misconduct
when the actor, knowing that thevictim is an inmate, offender, or
patient, voluntarily engages with the victimand a sexual intercourse, whether vagial,
oral, or anal, or othersexual contact for the purpose of sexual gratification.

(22:51):
When the sexual misconduct involves an actof sexual intercourse, whether vaginal,
oral, or anal, the actoris guilty of the felony of sexual as
conduct first degree, and upon conviction, must be imprisoned for not more than
ten years. When the sexual misconductdoes not involve sexual intercourse but involves other
sexual contact which is engaged in forsexual gratification, the actor is guilty of

(23:15):
the felony of sexual misconduct second degree, and upon conviction, must be imprisoned
for not more than five years.The term sexual contact is using this subsection
refers to the intrusion of any partof a person's body or of any object
into the quote intimate parts of anotherperson's body, or to the fondling of
the intimate parts of another person's body, which is done in a manner not

(23:37):
required by professional duties, when insteadis done to demonstrate affection, sexually stimulate
that person or another person, orharass that person. A person who knowingly
or willingly submits inaccurate or untruthful informationconcerning sexual misconduct is defined in this section,
is guilty of the misdemeanor a falselypointing sexual misconduct, and upon conviction,

(23:59):
must be prisoned for not more thanone year. Person who has knowledge
of sexual misconduct, who has receivedinformation in the professional capacity and fails to
report it to the appropriate law enforcementauthority, or a person who threatens our
attempts to intimidate a witness, isguilty of a misdemeanor, and, upon
conviction, must be fined not morethan five hundred dollars or imprisoned for not

(24:22):
more than six months, or both. Susan's defense attorney tried to argue a
diagnosis of dependent personality disorder, whichis accurate because someone with DPD would not
have been able to carry out complicated, brazen schemes by themselves. The psychiatrists
for the prosecution diagnosed with borderline personalitydisorder, as well as her psychiatrist in

(24:45):
prison, agreed with that diagnosis,which is much more accurate. To quote
forensic psychiatrist Jeffrey McKee from the documentaryMurder Made Me Famous, Susan Smith,
what happened? Quote? Borderline personalitydisorder is a severe disabling condition where,
out of an intense sphere of abandonment, the individual experiences serious disruptions in their

(25:07):
mood and their emotional expression, andthen their ability to control their impulses.
Now I want to pause here.There is a new trend of armchair psychiatry
online, especially on REDDA and TikTok, where everyone can spot someone who's a
narcissist more correctly stated as someone whohas been diagnosed with or who has traits
of narcissistic personality disorder, colloquially tossedaround as a narc oh or a borderline

(25:37):
someone diagnosed with or having traits ofbornoline personality disorder. Don't do this.
It's really harmful because we're labeling peoplewe don't know with some of the strongest
psychiatric diagnoses. Personality disorders are upthere with psychoses because they are attractable to
treatment as of now. Words arepowerful if you haven't studied the DSM,

(26:02):
as I have. One professor inmy postgrad studies made me read the DSM
five cover to cover. You shouldn'tbe slinging these diagnostic labels around. They
stick, and they can be trulyharmful to a person's reputation, to their
work, their whole lives, andhow they feel about themselves. One way

(26:26):
they can be harmful is that peopleassume that everyone diagnosed with borderline personality disorder
is dangerous. This is not true. I know I might have some listeners
with this painful diagnosis, and that'sa major reason I wanted to pause here.
People with this diagnosis are not inherentlydangerous. They are struggling to organize

(26:48):
their emotions and internal lives, andthey are more likely to hurt themselves than
other people. I have a lotof empathy for people with this diagnosis.
It's a tough life. Before wereturn to Susan, here's the actual diagnosis
diagnostic criteria for the DSM five,the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and statistical,

(27:14):
manual and mental disorders, so thatwe're literally all on the same page.
It's defined as quote, a pervasivepattern of instability of interpersonal relationships,
self image and affects, and markedimpulsivity. This fits Susan beginning by early
adulthood and present a variety of contexts, as indicated by five or more of

(27:37):
the following, which is how youdiagnose something using the DST. One frantic
efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Think of how she took the letter
to her boyfriend's office and had thatdemonstrative upset where she told him about everybody
else she was sleeping with to showhow lovable she was. Two a pattern

(28:00):
of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterizedby alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
You can see this and how Davidand Susan got together and broke up
and got together and separated and gottogether and broke up and got together and
separated and cheated on each other.And you know, David hung the moon

(28:21):
and then David was a creep,and so on and so forth. Three
identity disturbance markedly and persistently unstable selfimage or sense of self. I really
see this in her early twenties.I don't think Susan knew who she was
really outside of mother and wife like. She didn't have hobbies, she didn't

(28:45):
really have friends she hung out with. She was the partner of David,
the partner of her affairs. Youknow, the girl who wanted to go
out with Tom Finley, the boss'sson, and so on and so forth.

(29:06):
Four impulsivity in the least two areasthat are potentially self damaging e g.
Spending, sex, substance abuse,reckless driving, bene eating. Susan
is impulsive across the board. Fiverecurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, and or
threats are self mutulating behavior. Sixaffective instability to a marked reactivity of mood.

(29:30):
Seven chronic feelings of emptiness. Ithink Susan fills this with sexual partners.
Eight inappropriate intense anger or difficulty controllinganger. Again, we can see
this simply in her raging in herex boyfriend's office. Nine transient stress related

(29:52):
paranoid ideation are severe dissociative symptoms.We might be able to argue this in
Alex and Michael's Last Night if herdriving around and driving around and driving around,
and I was going to go tothis friend's house, but no,
I wasn't. The decisions she madethat night and then the nine days she

(30:12):
seemed out of it. She criedwithout tears. Her affect was completely strange.
She seemed like she wasn't in herbody. I remember watching the news,
and you know, David was likea rung out washcloth and Susan was

(30:34):
there. It was very creepy.Added to this diagnostic criteria, like I
said, many, if not all, I see in Susan are being quote
very sensitive to environmental circumstances, experiencingquote intense abandonment fears and inappropriate anchor even

(30:55):
my face with a realistic time limitedseparation or when they're un avoidable changes in
plants aka her mother being two hoursaway instead of right nearby quote, they
may believe this quote unquote abandonment impliesthat they are bad. Susan may have
interpreted her being placed in this particularwayless prison as a commoner of personal worth

(31:17):
instead of a need based placement iabased upon the nature of her crime and
therefore the security needed to help keepher safe as a child killer. Also,
Camille Graham was near the court inwhich she was sentenced. This diagnosis
is also marked by ute, suddenand dramatic shifts and self image characterized by
shifting goals, values, and vocationalaspirations. Susan self esteemed can be seen

(31:42):
soaring and plumbenting throughout her life throughher actions and arguably through her vocational choices.
She went from working at a localgrocery store to working for the most
prestigious employer in the area and datingthe boss's son there speaking to her repeated
self harm and suicide attempts. Herself harm has continued in prison. The

(32:04):
DSM five states that quote completed suicideoccurs eight to ten percent of such individuals,
and self mutilative acts e g.Cutting and burning and suicide threats and
attempts are very common. Remember Susantried to kill herself multiple times with over
the counter aspirin like Annison, whenmuch more lethal forms were available. No,

(32:25):
I don't make this statement flippantly atall, but as a former now
disabled therapist who was trained in suicidology, and remember she claimed the murders were
actually a failed suicide attempt that shejumped out of the car at the last
minute, but couldn't save the boys. Yet she was neither wet, nor
muddy, nor must at all.Quote. These self destructive acts are usually

(32:51):
precipitated by threats of separation or rejection, or by expectation that the individual assumes
increased responsibility. Remember that I saidthe boys were murdered October twenty fifth,
nineteen ninety four, one month andfour days after the divorce filing and eight
days after the Dear Jane letter fromher boyfriend. She was going to have
to be a single mother, notthe wife of David Smith, and not

(33:15):
the boyfriend of one of the richestmen in town. Increased responsibility every which
way. She looked Alex for Michael, for the legal proceedings for the splitting
up of marital assets, for herself. Perhaps, if she were a grieving
mother with two less responsibilities, oneof the two men or maybe both,

(33:37):
might return to proper up and comforther. This might very well have been
her reasoning in her emotional pain andpanic back to her present behaviors. I
pulled her inmate search detailed report,which contains all of her activity as an
inmate in the South Carolina system.It was quite illuminating, especially given this

(33:59):
diagnosis. Under the section Disciplinary actions, she had three and two thousand and
ten, use in possession of drugstwice, and self mutilation. The penalties
were severe, such as telephone lossfor an entire year and can team loss
for months, which means only eatingin the cafeteria and having no choice of

(34:22):
her food. And control is veryimportant to Susan. Given the severity of
punishments for these in future disciplinary actions, I'm assuming that she received many many
warnings for the same offense as listedthat the authorities didn't bother to list on
her record before they finally charged her. In twenty twelve, she was punished

(34:44):
for unauthorized use of another inmate's penwhich is odd given how much money her
mother and fans don't think about thattoo long, send her. It must
have been a control issue making thisinmate give it up just because it felt
good to dominate them and take theirmoney and or phone time. In twenty

(35:05):
fifteen, she received another drug chargewith equally harsh penalties. One of her
fellow inmates said that Susan would takeany drugs she could get her hands on,
and that they'd seen her do anydrug any way you can do it,
including booty pop, which is whatit sounds like under movement. Her

(35:29):
desire transferred to Leaf after seducing thetwo guards at Camill Graham and ruining their
lives. I can't say that enoughtook place on September twenty fifth, two
thousand. First, she was placedin protective custody at Graham on September fifteenth.
Then from April twelfth, two thousandand four to May twentieth, two
twenty one, seventeen years, shehas had twelve medical moves I assume for

(35:57):
self harm and or suicide attempts anyof my listeners work in corrections. Could
you please let me know if that'sexcessive, as it seems it is.
The section earned work credits takes uptwo pages because she switches jobs more than
an irresponsible teenager, both in herown whim and by being moved by administration
for behavior. On one job inthe canteen, she received a promotion,

(36:21):
her only one this whole time,and two days later received a demotion.
Two days after that, she askedto be moved elsewhere in the canteen.
Impulsive reactions to responsibility Earned education creditsnone none. From November fourth, nineteen

(36:42):
ninety four, until now twenty nineyears, more years than she was old
when she murdered her sons. Mostinmates take classes to at least pass the
time or out of some in eightcuriosity, or to ingratiate themselves with the
parole board. Remember, she becomeseligible for a chance in November of next
year. Not sou then. Ifound this shocking, given how manipulative she

(37:07):
is. Under programs, there wereonly three listed, and only two of
those were completed by her. Allthree were listed as general character based programs.
I take this to mean they werebasic stuff or required as disciplinary reform.
This is the section and when grouptherapy work will be listed that kind

(37:30):
of thing. Again, no workto at least in press parole, and
no programs at all since twenty nineteen. I apologize if you can hear Toby
barking, Yeah, he is guardingthe deck from nothing in particular, and
the acoustics in this house are weird, so I'm sorry. Now, Now

(37:52):
let's hear from fellow prison inmates.In the documentary Cellmate Secrets, several fellow
inmates and former mates who had befriendedher and even been her cellmates at least
were interviewed Christie Smith, her sealmate, first met her when she was twenty
and Susan was twenty nine. Christiesaw psychotic behavior and Susan at times.

(38:13):
She said Susan had a photo ofher sons and her cell the famous photo
I used for the cover of episodetwenty one and the same one that was
splashed all over the news in thenewspapers, and said that Susan would talk
to it as if the boys werealive and could hear her. She'd get
her morning coffee and then just chatwith them, and that it was really

(38:35):
uncomfortable. Christie said Susan cut herselfon Mother's Day and the anniversary of the
murders every year. Stephanie Halsey Apprisonateat least thought they were real suicide attempts,
but her cellmate thought they were forattention. Christie said that Susan's wrists
are quote mutilated with scars. Christiesaid living with her was difficult because Susan

(39:00):
liked control of quote her stuff andyour stuff, and that she was extremely
manipulative. She said Susan used themoney she obtained from her mother and fans
to manipulate others, including Christie,who obtained drugs for Susan. She said,
Susan was not particular and like Isaid, and would do anything she
could get, using quote drugs asa substitute for male attention. Christie was

(39:24):
also used as a lookout for Susan'squote sex capades. She stated that one
of Susan's prison girlfriends looked exactly likethe fake composite drawing of the racial hoax
of the carjacking suspect. Was shereveling and what she had done or punishing

(39:45):
herself or both. Christie broke tieswith Susan when Susan told Christie's son in
the visiting room that he could callher Auntie Susan. Christie told her,
using expletives, that she killed hersons and therefore could not be affectionate with
hers. Susan at that time hada job that is a visiting room manager.

(40:07):
Can you imagine what were they thinking? By the way, for those
are you curious about prison living,this particular documentary shows you how to make
a prison birthday cake and a prisonsex toy using a ballpoint pen and a
bra. The more you know,I'll leave you again with what Susan said

(40:27):
to one of her prison girlfriends duringan argument and I quote, I killed
my fucking kids. You think Icare about yours. I take that as
a threat, considering she worked inthe visiting room, and that says everything
to her claimed remorse to Alford Row, that's not remorse. I can't dig

(40:52):
any deeper than I have, soI have to stop here. It's made
me angry and sad and second guessingother people. I need to go watch
cartoons and when our cheerful cardigan orsomething like that to recoup. Somebody bring
me a key lime pie priest,please. Okay, stay tuned now for
a replay at the original episode withmy wonderful voice actors, Episode twenty one,

(41:17):
nine days and two car seats.I'm so glad to be back.
I'm seeing my neurologists on Monday,so hopefully we'll figure out this uptick in
bad flare ups and I can beback in podcasting shape for good. Send
good vibes on Monday. If youappreciate the podcast a five star writing on
Spotify, Audible, the IMDb.Did I mention I'm on the IMDb?

(41:43):
My host sprinker Apple Podcasts or Podchaseris beyond appreciated. You can follow me
on Instagram, Redd Edit, Podchaser, or Facebook. As there might be
cupcakes. Please join my subreddit.I'm having fun adding relevant things to it.
Are you could check out my lovelysponsors in the show are in the
show notes, especially care of Ijust took my supplements actually before recording,

(42:08):
and I've been doing so for years. I can't express how much I love
this company and how flexible and customizablemy plan is and it costs whole much
less than buying supplements vitamins separately fromthe store and bottles. Thank you for
listening all these years and being mycupcakes that I can find anytime. I

(42:31):
love you, guys. Stay safe. If someone in your life feels unsafe
to you, trust your instincts.I want to say to my babies,

(43:09):
your mama loves you so much,and your dady. This whole families love
you so much, and you guysa gout to be strong because you are.
I just know. I just feelin my heart you're okay, but
you gotta take care of each other. Your mama Dady're gonna get you right,

(43:32):
Hear what, don't even when youget home. Susan took my babies
from me. Twice, once whenshe murdered them, once when she lied
about it. HI, this isCarla, and welcome to Their Might Be
Cupcakes Episode twenty one, nine daysand two car seats a caveat for this
episode, and we'll be discussing SusanSmith's murder of her son's Alex and Michael,

(43:54):
and the racism involved in her accusationof a false perpetrator. I will
not be delving explicitly into the forensicdetails of what happened to the boys,
but I will be honest about whatoccurred, and I will be frankly discussing
the racism issues involved from an academicand social standpoint, the social being mine

(44:15):
because I was a local and Ilived to this harrowing experience. This episode
might not be for you, becauseI know philicide, infanticide, and racism
are not topics for everyone. ButI promise as always to be a sensitive
and faithful story teller and to nevertake take you somewhere. I cannot lead
you home from Susan's infamous crying withouttears speech to the media at the beginning

(44:38):
is as fraught as we will get. You will hear other voices along with
mine, for the first time.I thought, since men were so important
to Susan's life, that I shouldn'tdo all the voices this time, So
I reined in three podcasting friends toplay. David Smith, her estranged husband
whom you heard at the beginning,Sheriff Howard Wells, whom you will hear

(45:01):
in a moment, and the manthat Susan desperately wanted to be her boyfriend,
Tom Finley. I will introduce thesefriends and their wonderful podcast at the
end of this episode, and Iwill link to their podcast on the Facebook
page. In the Facebook group,and in this episode's entry on the website.
There might be cupcakes dot com.So are you ready take my hand?

(45:23):
We can do this. It's thedarkest of dark fairy tales, the
original kind with no happily ever after, the kind with dark woods and darker
water and darkest schemes. It's thebeginning of Hansel and Gretel. As I
read to you last episode, onlythe father was away at work when the
mother came up with a diabolical plan. On October twenty fifth, nineteen ninety

(45:49):
four, just after nine p m. David Smith, a twenty four year
old living in the small town ofUnion, South Carolina, received a page
over the intercomm. At work thewind Dixie grocery store, he had a
phone call. His life was foreveraltered. Before that phone call, his
life had been fatherhood of two youngboys, soon to be ex wife,

(46:12):
drama, girlfriend drama, small towndrama. After he picked up the receiver
just outside the storm manager's office,he became the center of a storm of
controversy and pain, and loss andfear and racism. On the phone was
his estranged wife, twenty three yearold Susan Vaughan Smith, and she was

(46:32):
wailing that he's got the kids.David couldn't get any more than that of
her. A stranger took the phoneand tried to explain further, but then
she began to cry. Then SheriffHoward Wells took the phone from her and
stated, we're out here at themcleods house on Route forty nine. Your

(46:54):
wife has informed us that she wascarjacked at the Monarch Meal Traffic Latin.
The perpetrator left the scene with thecar. The children were in it.
Your wife is okay, but atthis time the kids are still missing.
Mister Smith, I think you shouldcome out here. Do you know where

(47:15):
John d Long Lake is? TheMcCloud places up the hill off the highway,
the house on the right just beforethe turn off to the lake.
When David arrived at the McCloud place, Sheriff Wells explained Susan's story, and
it was this She had been stoppedat the traffic light when a black man

(47:37):
opened the passenger door of her carand jumped in, forcing her to drive
about ten miles into the countryside along route forty nine. Then he forced
her to stop the car in themiddle of the road and get out,
and he slid into the driver's seat, refusing to let her retrieve the voice.
He said, you didn't have timeto let her do that, but

(47:58):
that he wouldn't hurt them, andthen he drove away with three year old
Michael and fourteen month old Alex.For the next nine days, our entire
area of southern North Carolina and SouthCarolina was paralyzed. Everyone had one eye
looking out for an African American carjacker, the other looking for two toddlers whose

(48:22):
photos were everywhere. Then, onNovember third, nine days later, Susan
confessed that it had all been alie. With the regionally infamous phrase,
my children are not all right.She confessed to Sheriff Wells that the car
had been underwater the entire time,sixty feet out and eighteen feet deep in

(48:45):
John DeLong Lake, within view ofthe front porch of the mc cloud Place.
Like a lot of other people,we watched the story about boys disappearance
some fold on TV. It wasan odd sensation here in the people you
knew and loved most referred to likestrangers. Susan Smith had been in love

(49:06):
you see bar infatuated or obsessed,or in lust, whichever combination of the
above. She wanted to be withTom Finlay, the son of a boss.
Tom was the most eligible bachelor intown and the richest, but she
was also obsessed with what her estrangedhusband and his girlfriend were up to.

(49:28):
She didn't want David, but shedidn't want anyone else to have David either,
And she was also acting out sexuallywith other fellow employees in Finley's own
home, in his own hot tub, and in Hickory Nuts Union, South
Carolina is new and Only bar.On October seventeenth, seven days before that

(49:50):
phone called to win Dixie, TomFinley had sat down on a computer at
his father's business or in the familymansion and typed out a dear letter to
Susan. In part it read,you will without a doubt and make some
lucky man a great wife, butunfortunately it won't be me. Susan,

(50:13):
I could really fall for you.You have some endearing qualities about you,
and I think that you're a terrificperson. But like I've told you before,
there are some things about you thataren't suited for me. And yes
I'm speaking about your children. Youwant to catch a nice guy like me,
one day, you have to actlike a nice girl. There are

(50:35):
some things about you that aren't suitedfor me, and yes I am speaking
about your children. And one weeklater, Susan Smith let her car drive
into John DeLong Lake with Michael andAlex Smith, her sons strapped and trapped
in their car seat. The threemounser elements of this crime are phil aside,
the killing of one's own children,carjacking which did not actually occur,

(51:00):
and a racial hoax. For morediscussion about philicide, I refer you back
to episode two Casey Anthony and Bonniemcnara an Episode eight, Toxic Doctology,
both in which I explored the phenomenonand read some of my own fiction inspired
by the Casey Anthony case. Carjackingis a portmanteau of car and hijacking created

(51:23):
by E. J. Mitchell,editor of the Detroit News, in nineteen
ninety one, when he reported themurder of Ruth Wall, a twenty two
year old Detroit native who would notrelinquish her car to thieves. The term
then started to be used by DetroitPolice dispatch and police officers to describe what
they have been awkwardly referring to asrobbery, armed unlawful driving away on an

(51:45):
artmobile aka r au DA. Commonmethods used by carjackers are bumping the victim's
vehicle, then driving away with itwhen the victim responds to the wreck by
getting out to exchange insurance information,staging an accident, and then driving away
with a victim's vehicle when the goodsamaritan stops to assist, communicating in some

(52:08):
way like flashing headlights that there's somethingwrong with the victim's car and stealing it
when they pull over a response,and following the victim home with a co
conspirator blocking the victim's driveway and stealingtheir vehicle. The last on the list
nearly happened to me. I thinkaround the time of Alex and Michael's murder.

(52:28):
I left my home in Charlotte tohead back to college and Raleigh.
I had very little gas, soI stopped relatively quickly at the small gas
station. Almost immediately, an olderpurple Honda Prelude pulled up in front of
my car, blocking me from thatdirection, and it was full of guys.
They all started hollering at me.I instantly felt threatened, so I

(52:50):
got back in the car and awkwardlybacked out from the pump and just kept
driving towards Skull. They followed meand drove up beside me, continuing to
yell and in the horn. Mygas tank kept getting lower and they weren't
given up. And I wasn't comingupon a gas station that wasn't a small
southern mom and pop operation. Iwanted a large operation with lights and locks

(53:14):
and a panic button. I alsowas not seeing any police cars. I
finally realized that my only choice wasto turn around and go home. They
followed me all the way, honkingand yelling. When I got home,
they pulled in behind me sideways ablock in the driveway's exit. As soon
as I hit the bottom of thedriveway, I leaned on my horn and

(53:35):
did not release it. The garagedoor opened to relieve, to reveal my
dad holding his baseball bat. Onlythen did the yelling in honking cease and
did they pull away, Thanks Daddy. The racial hoax that Susan Smith perpetrated
damage our regional area for a longtime, and the damage probably lingers still

(53:57):
in generational damage. The term racialhoax was coining to excuse me by Katherine
Russell Brown, author of The Colorof Crime, who defined it as when
someone fabricates a crime and blames iton another person because of their race,
or when an actual crime has beencommitted and the perpetrator falsely blames someone else
because of their race. According toRussell Brown, a racial hoax can be

(54:21):
performed by a person of any raceagainst a person of any other race.
However, racial hoaxes against African Americansare most likely to garner a heavy media
coverage and to do social and economicdamage because of the stereotype of the violent
criminal black man. Susan Smith,as a resident of a small town in

(54:42):
South Carolina in nineteen ninety four,knew that stereotype very very well. I
believe that her stating that her carjackerwas a black man was calculated, and
she had time to calculate this story. How do I know this because the
police searched John Delonglake twice during thisnine days, but they only searched feet
out from shore using normal calculations ofhow far a car might go if wrecked

(55:07):
off the boat ramp. When Susanconfessed on day nine, she told him
exactly where her maroon Monster Protege hadsunk. It had floated at first,
you see unexpectedly bobbing towards the lake'sman made down before sinking. It was
sixty feet out, and she knewwhere had gone down so precisely that they

(55:27):
found it on the first dive.The only way she could have known that
is if she had watched it float, travel, bob flip, and sink
upside down. She had all thattime, while watching and possibly listening to
her boy's cry for her to calculateher story and choose her boogeyman and the

(55:51):
best boogeyman. In nineteen nineties,Union, South Carolina was an anonymous violent
criminal black man. That first daybefore things go real crazy, I could
tell Susan had the sense she wason a stage. I thought she might
be playing up the drama a littlebit. I had no idea how much
how small as Union, South Carolina. Sheriff Wells was friends with Scotty Van,

(56:15):
Susan's brother, and lived down thestreet from Susan's mother and stepfather.
Sheriff Wells and his wife were godparentsto Scotty's two children. The wein Dixie
Grocery Store was a town social hub. It this parking lot we were placed
to hang out and meet up.Many of the town's residents either worked there
at the time or he had workedthere previously. There was no movie theater

(56:37):
in Union. When David and Susanwere dating, they had to drive twenty
five miles outside the city limits ofUnion to Spartanburg, South Carolina to go
to the movies. Susan and Tiffany, David's girlfriend now wife, knew each
other in high school and we're inthe Junior Civitans club together. Susan,
the current president of Senior, spokeup then for Tiffany's leadership skills as a

(57:01):
freshman thanks to Susan. As asophomore, Tiffany became secretary treasurer and most
small town of all, the UnionSalvation Army fed all of the local,
regional, and national press corps thatshowed up. It was like those news
trucks were mushrooms sprouted from the groundafter a hard reign. It was also

(57:22):
a small town detail that caught Susanin her lies. Remember she said she
had been stopped at the Monarchamil stoplightwhen the man jumped into her car.
Well Sheriff Wells knew that that particularstoplight operated on a vehicle sensor in the
direction Susan had been supposedly driving.The stoplight was always green. It didn't

(57:45):
have enough traffic. It was alwaysgreen unless another car approached on the intersecting
street. So either there was aphantom witness or she was lying small town
traffic. I remember how very strangeeverything and everyone was during those nine days.
Even across the border in metropolitan Charlotte, the social air was stiller.

(58:08):
Somehow, stranger stopped greeting each other. You didn't make small talk with cashiers.
Everyone received side eye from everyone.Because someone had poisoned the village well
in the worst way. Either way, either someone had stolen two innocent babies,
both under three years old, fromtheir mamma's arms, helpless and strapped

(58:30):
into their car seats, and haddone so, feeding into racial fears.
Or the most gruesome of fairy taleshad come to life, and a mamma
that we all might have run intoat Mirk Beach or in spartan Burg or
at Fort Sumter had killed her ownflesh and blood for what a boyfriend who

(58:51):
didn't want kids, revenge against herhusband, or the worst, most frightening
reason that she gave to sheriff,then to her husband David when he visited
her in jail, no reason thatshe could think of, no reason at
all. Halloween that year was suffocatedunder a bell jar. It fell on

(59:15):
day six. We had almost notricker treaters, and we lived in an
upperly mobile, insulated suburban development milesaway from Union where people could pretend it
wasn't happening. The air felt stilledand eerie and uncomfortable, thick and tinged,
like we were collectively holding our breath, and in a sense we were

(59:37):
as I said. Susan claimed thatshe did it for no reason that she
could name. That's true. Herdefense claimed dependent personality disorder, major depression,
sexual abuse by her stepfather that developedto ongoing sexual contact into adulthood,
and that infamous letter from Tom,her love Tom. She was hyper focused

(01:00:00):
on Tom during those nine days.One of the first things she said to
David after he spoke to the sheriffthen rushed to be by Susan's side,
is that Tom might come see her, so don't get mad. He didn't.
Tom called her once during those ninedays, and she made a huge
production of it, announcing it toeveryone present. She went everyone out of

(01:00:21):
a back bedroom for privacy, buthe was just conveying thoughts and prayers.
She also consistently wore Tom's almamter sweatshirt, only removing it for the cameras.
But when she confessed to the sheriffon that ninth day, and when she
wrote a confession to David and thenwrote out her official confession, there was

(01:00:43):
no mention of Tom, or ofany motive of at all. She even
wrote, I don't know why Idid it. Both documents are chilling.
They are written in fine even penmanship, and they have hearts drawn on them.
Heart drawn on them. The personwho wrote both documents was very calm,

(01:01:07):
content even, and seemed to haveno concept of the pain she had
caused or of everything they had ledup to that letter. In that official
confession, she even wrote in bothabout concerns for herself. I know my
life is going to be hell fromhere on. Nobody gives a damn about
me. That theme repeated itself whenDavid finally visited her for the first time

(01:01:30):
in jail. In response to Davidexpressing its pain by saying, I'll never
be able to show my kids howto ride a bike. I'll never be
able to get the chance to takethem fishing or teach them how to play
ball. You just rip them forme, Susan immediately replied, I'm having
a hard time too. Nobody caresabout me down here. I'm in a

(01:01:52):
little bitty sell. I don't getto go out but just an hour a
day. That was her immediate response. The arious thing she said to David
during that meeting, and the thingthat ended the meeting, was this,
David, when I get out,If I get out of here, I

(01:02:13):
hope that maybe we can get togetherher and have more kids. There were
other strange behaviors that showed immediately.Susan on that first night, was wailing
in front of Sheriff Wells and theMcLoud family. When she got into the
car to go to her family's houseto stay with David, she immediately calmed

(01:02:36):
down. She then stated that shewanted to go first to David and Susan's
house to get her contact lenses.It was now approximately eleven pm. She
was going to be interrogated by thepolice at her parents house. She had
just been allegedly carjacked and her childrenkidnapped, but nobody needs to be seeing
her in her eyeglasses. This isalso when she told David that Tom Finley

(01:03:00):
would probably be checking on her andDavid couldn't fuss about it. When they
entered their home, David was nearlyfloored by the presence of the boys' lives,
their toys, their sippy cups,the evidence of their dinner from that
night. Susan, however, walkedright past all their belongings and did not
react at all. One thing Iremember really striking me as a local is

(01:03:24):
watching her on the news and recognizingthat the crying voice did not have any
liquid tears to go along with it. I want to play it again here
now so that you can listen toit. Knowing all about the case and
now knowing Susan, I want tosay to my babies, your mamma loves

(01:03:46):
you so much, and your daveyou, this whole family's loves you so
much, and you guys a guyout of their strong because you are.
I just know, I just feelin my heart. Okay, But she
got to take care of each other. Your mama dated gonna jui hit what

(01:04:09):
I mean when you get home.But the most striking thing above all is
a local and as a person,was my great grandfather. I told stories
about this wonderful man in an episodenine Family Trees. Grandpa Porter never wished
harm on anyone, and I actuallywent out of his way to his own
detriment to help complete strangers. Inever even heard him say a cross word,

(01:04:32):
except once or twice in jest.Until October twenty fifth, nineteen to
ninety four. Grandpa was transfixed bythe news, as was almost everyone.
He would just silently watch from hisrock and chair, staring daggers as Susan
as she was pleased over and overin her cry voice. But every once

(01:04:54):
in a while he would mutter,they need to do exactly to her what
they did she did to them boys. Or they need to strap her into
the car and drive her into thewater. That's the only fit in punishment.
And those were the only things hewould say about it. He would
brook no discussion. He would pinchhis kind lips together and shake his head
if he tried to talk about thecase. Nothing but they need to put

(01:05:15):
her in the lake and then squashit. One time, when he did
that and then left the room,Grandma Parter returned to me and said,
your grandma, your grandpa said thathe would have taken in those boys if
she didn't want em. What SusanSmith did to Michael and Alex Smith broke
something in my great grandfather's heart irrevocably. As a local, I cannot talk

(01:05:39):
about this case without disgusting the prosecutor, Tommy Pope. He was an elected
official, and by the time thecase went to trial in nineteen ninety five,
Union South Carolina's support was actually turningtowards Susan. I know, shocking
to me too, but she wasa hometown girl. Her stepfather was kind
of a big deal. Her familyfriends with the sheriff. David's family was

(01:06:02):
not such a big deal and wasinitially and were initially from Michigan. The
Old South was still alive and well, and as today, there were unspoken
and racist reasons for supporting Susan asa pitiful victim as well, but they
mostly remained in whispers. People thatwanted to support her bought into the defense

(01:06:24):
story that she actually was so miserablein her marriage and devastated by the Dear
Jane letter that she had intended tocommit suicide along with murdering the Voice,
but had somehow what chickened out forgotto get in the car. The gymnastics
of rationalization are fascinating to me.So mister Pope knew he was swimming upstream,

(01:06:45):
and he knew that pushing the deathpenalty against the pitiful hometown girl's suicide
Cry Voice, poor baby might costhim the next election. But he won
my heart by getting on the newsand telling the world that he was going
to prosecute Sue Smith as if hewere not an elected official, that he
was going to focus on the caseand only on the case. Then her

(01:07:08):
attorney approached him with a request,can you show pictures of Susan with her
boys in court, playing with themand loving on them, you know.
During the trial, without missing abeat, mister Pope whipped out the autopsy
photos of Michael and Alex after they'dbeen in their car seats for nine days
underwater, thrust them in the attorney'sface and said, absolutely, if I

(01:07:31):
get to show my pictures, youwant to see pictures, here's some pictures.
The defense attorney withdrew his motion withoutfurther comment. The prosecutorial move that
cut past all the defense strategies.The Susan was sexually abused, her parents
divorced, and the suicide of herfather. The defense psychiatrist diagnosis if Susan
is having major depression as colone morbidwith dependent personality disorder and won the murder

(01:07:57):
case was all Timmy Pope's idea.He obtained a similar car to Susan's maroon
Mazda Pertege. He put a videocamera in the back seat at approximate Michael,
the older child's viewpoint, and drovethe car off the boat ramp into
John Delonglay. He then had thejury, judge and courtroom watched the entire

(01:08:19):
tape from the drive down the boatramp until the car settled on to the
bottom of the lake, eighteen feetdown. So where and how is Susan
now? She confessed November third,nineteen ninety four, on the ninth day
by saying to the sheriff the regionallyinfamous world words, my children are not

(01:08:43):
all right. Eight months later,she was convicted on July twenty second,
nineteen ninety five, of two countsof first degree murder, the murder of
Michael Daniel Smith and Alexander Tyler Smith. Six days later, on July twenty
eighth, nineteen ninety she was sentencedto life in prison with no possibility of
pearl for thirty years. Her firsteligibility will be in twenty twenty four,

(01:09:09):
when she and I will be fiftythree years old. That's right, we're
peers. It's an accident of geographythat we didn't go to the same high
school. We were in the JuniorCivitans and the National Honor Society at the
same time. I was able toaccess her incarceration reports, and they paint
a fascinating picture. She has hadfifty changes of work detailed position since September

(01:09:34):
twenty six, nineteen ninety five.And many of them are marked inmate request.
That's fifty job changes in twenty twoyears. There were six disciplinary actions
on the report I saw. Threewere for drug possession, one was for
using another inmate's pen I assumed toaccess their commissary account, so it was

(01:09:56):
for stealing, and one was forself mutilation she cut herself with a smuggled
razor. One was sexual She hadsex with two male prison guards, both
of whom were also disciplined. Itcame out afterwards that strict instructions had been
left in her file by the wardenthat she was never to be left unattended
with male guards. She is currentlyat this time doing landscaping work, which

(01:10:20):
is a work detail she has beenrepeatedly asked to be move out of over
the years, and miss National HonorSociety in twenty two years of incarceration,
has not earned one academic credit foranything. I find that much striking of

(01:10:41):
all. I told you I wouldbring you back into the light, or
there might be cupcakes, and herethey are today. David Smith, Michael
and Alex's father, is doing well. He is married to his girlfriend of
that time, Tiffany, and theyhave two beautiful children. The season of
Autumn and especially Halloween are still extremelydifficult for him, but he allows himself

(01:11:06):
to grieve when he needs to,and because his partner was there through it
all, he has the best supportpossible. This episode is dedicated to Michael,
Mike, Mike, and Alex fatRat Smith. I would like to
thank, as always my sponsor,Audible, the best audio bookstore available.

(01:11:30):
If you follow my sponsor link Audibletrial dot com, slash might be cupcake.
That's one word Audible Trial and signup for a thirty day free membership
trial, you know not only receivethat chance to check out all the wonderful
benefits of membership. I love it. I've been a member forever, but
you get a free book of yourchoice to keep even if you choose not

(01:11:51):
to become a member. Because thisepisode was so intense, my suggestion for
a free book to keep this weekis a cheerful pellate cleanser Anne of Green
Gables by Lucy Maud Montgomery, narratedby the sweet voice actress Rachel McAdams for
Mean Girls, nine hours and twentytwo minutes of gumption and Anne with any

(01:12:15):
I would also love to think myvoices. I truly appreciate my podcasting friends
for playing Sheriff Howard Wells, DavidSmith, and Tom Finley for me.
Usually I read straight through, butI felt it with two eye witnesses and
one very important Dear Jane letter thatmy usual do and all the voices wouldn't
cut it. Sheriff Wells was playedby Jeff Richardson. Jeff hosts not one,

(01:12:39):
but two really cool podcasts, andI'm going to read exactly what he
said to me. Howdy, I'mJeff Richardson. I'm one of the co
hosts of a great podcast called EverythingIs Awesome with Jeff and Casey. Casey
and I love storytelling and true timepodcasts, so it's really cool that I
get to do one of these characters. I remember the Susan Smith case.
That ship was crazy. I prettymuch sums it up. I was a

(01:13:03):
senior in high school and I knewinstantly something wasn't right about that story.
Ps. I also host a sidepodcast called Shattered Worlds RPG. You can
find us on Facebook, are anythe Google or podcasting apps where a fun
group of dorics playing a role playinggame that I created called Shattered Worlds.
Thanks again to Carla for doing thisshow and making our lives a little bit

(01:13:26):
brighter. Ah, thank you.Well, look a cocake. David Smith,
Susan's husband, and more importantly,Michael and Alex's dad, was played
by Chris Iazzie I hope I pronouncedthat right, Chris, I'm so sorry,
who hosts the CNJA Gamecast along withNick and Jamie. They cover classic

(01:13:48):
and modern video game news and gamecollecting. A recent episode that I'm interested
in and I've already queued up isall about Sega Team Sonic, the Hedgehog
Don Thinley the earthWhile love interest ofSusan Smith's was played by Nick Alexander who
hosts the Brohio podcast. The BrosNick and Rob, who have been friends

(01:14:11):
as the sixth Grade, which isso Cool, covered the Things that Go
Bump in the Night, the paranormal, true crime, cryptozoology, aliens,
conspiracy theories, and urban legends andas they say, they try to put
a comic spell on everything as bestthey can. Their latest episodes covered the
Indiana Hell House, the Salem witchTrials, which is a pet topic of

(01:14:31):
mine, and alien abductions. Thankyou, my listeners for trusting you to
tell this difficult story, and thankyou again to my voices until next week.
The extra kind to each other,especially to strangers. You never know,
as we've learned from this episode whatother people are going through, and

(01:14:53):
a surprise kindness cupcake might actually makeall the difference. Mister Smith, I
think you should come out here.Do you know where John DeLong Lake is?
Some McCloud places up the hill offthe highway, the house on the
right just before the turnoff to thelake. I'm playing the part of sheriff.

(01:15:17):
My name is Jeff. I sharethe part of

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