November 21, 2024 • 45 mins
What if the key to changing the tech industry lies not just in coding skills but in community and mentorship? Join us as we explore the inspiring journey of Meryl, whose passion for technology was ignited by a high school teacher in Chicago and further fueled by an eye-opening summer camp at Berkeley. Meryl's transition from a student to a leading figure at Twitter exemplifies the power of taking initiative and seizing opportunities. Her story highlights how mentorship and community support have been pivotal in her career, especially in promoting diversity within tech.
In a time of significant upheaval at Twitter, we reflect on the crucial role employee resource groups like Blackbirds play in fostering inclusivity and career growth for black engineers. Meryl shares her firsthand experiences of how these groups provided a sense of belonging and inspiration during turbulent times. We delve into how learning and adapting to new technologies like AI tools and programming languages can empower individuals in their tech careers, with personal anecdotes about the excitement and challenges of mastering new skills.
As Meryl embarks on a new chapter focused on public speaking and mentorship beyond the confines of a tech career, we examine the courage it takes to leave a stable position for something driven by passion and community impact. Her quest to share the untold stories of those who have contributed to tech underscores the importance of family support and a network of like-minded individuals. This episode is a celebration of embracing change, pursuing impactful goals, and the lasting legacy that comes from investing in others and ourselves.
In a time of significant upheaval at Twitter, we reflect on the crucial role employee resource groups like Blackbirds play in fostering inclusivity and career growth for black engineers. Meryl shares her firsthand experiences of how these groups provided a sense of belonging and inspiration during turbulent times. We delve into how learning and adapting to new technologies like AI tools and programming languages can empower individuals in their tech careers, with personal anecdotes about the excitement and challenges of mastering new skills.
As Meryl embarks on a new chapter focused on public speaking and mentorship beyond the confines of a tech career, we examine the courage it takes to leave a stable position for something driven by passion and community impact. Her quest to share the untold stories of those who have contributed to tech underscores the importance of family support and a network of like-minded individuals. This episode is a celebration of embracing change, pursuing impactful goals, and the lasting legacy that comes from investing in others and ourselves.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're definitely at a crossroads here with AI.
I feel like I would tell peopleto just you, don't have to jump
into it, definitely know how touse it, don't be afraid of it.
I learned how to use GitHubCopilot at work and you can't
just let it write everything foryou.
That's the thing.
It's not replacing us right now,one big thing that we kind of
(00:22):
miss with remote is just peoplelike relationships.
My first advice is definitelykeep in contact with your
network.
Just meet up with people forcoffee.
Your network is going to bereally helpful in getting you
jobs and just learning things,and also just having people to
give you advice is huge yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Welcome, welcome, welcome to our next episode?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
What up player?
What's going on?
D-hustle, guess where we at man, san Francisco.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
We out west player.
Can you believe it?
We really, we're really faraway and I have a special guest
that we're going to have aconversation with this afternoon
.
It's one of somebody that I'veseen start off from the
beginning of time, bro,especially working at Twitter.
Yeah, step in the door.
She was shining so bright atthe beginning.
So we are going to have aconversation with a really cool
(01:23):
mentee of mine that I've had apleasure working with at Twitter
See her growth where she's atand we're definitely going to
fill that in.
I want to welcome to the stageMeryl Meryl.
Go ahead and give a round ofapplause.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Meryl, welcome to the stage.
Hey, Thanks for having me.
What up, meryl, how you doing.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Great, how's San Fran been treating you?
It's been treating me well yeahyeah, yeah, you just got off the
Caltrain, so you're makingmoves up from San Francisco all
the way down south a little bit.
We are in the South Bay.
So those that are going to seeme in a later episode when I say
I'm in San Francisco, I'm inthe South Bay right now, but
(02:07):
we're going back up toSalesforce T, but today we're
dedicating our time to Meryl.
Definitely, give her a round ofapplause, round of applause.
So, meryl, uh, we're gonna justkick our conversation off.
Um, and just like I mentionedto you during our pre-show is, I
definitely want to make surethat people hear your voice,
hear your journey, um, anddefinitely like the impact that,
um, seeing somebody like me,you know roaming in the streets,
at Twitter, you know, at thekeyboard, but also how's that
you know impacted your journeyoverall.
(02:28):
And we'll first start off withjust give us a quick
introduction about yourself.
Let us know where you're fromand definitely when you got
started in tech.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, I'm Meryl.
Obviously you know that I wouldsay I got started in tech
actually back in high school.
I'm from Chicago.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I had the Chi-town, chicago, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Shout out to all my Bulls friends out, there Go
Bulls, go White Sox.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
There you go Wow.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
You see, how they call it out like that right.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I like it.
Yeah, I had this really coolcomputer science teacher.
He was really motivated to getmore women into computer science
so he really, uh, aimed hisclasses at female students um.
I took computer science thereyeah I went to a really cool
summer camp at berkeley where Igot to actually visit twitter
(03:19):
way back in like 2009 oh, lookat that.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
She was over there before I even touched ground, so
technically she was introducingme to.
I even touched ground, sotechnically she was introducing
me to twitter, not meintroducing to her.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, it was an amazing opportunity.
It was a camp for black andlatinx kids and really inspired
me.
So then I kept doing computerscience.
I majored in it in college.
What school you went to?
I went to.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
University, right, y'all had a whole crew that
pulled up, won an internship asummer and I was like dang Brown
is kind of deep out there incomputer science.
Big shout outs to them.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
The funny thing is that when I first applied to
Twitter I think I was asophomore in college they
weren't recruiting at Brown atall, so I just saw the job
posting, I applied, I got theinternship and then I talked to
the recruiters like Faria and Iwas like you really should be
going to Brown, and so I liketold all these Brown students to
(04:14):
come intern at Twitter becauseI had such an awesome time.
So then, in 2016,.
There were so many of us.
Yeah, let's put a pin rightthere.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Because, first of all , give a big round of applause
for sure, because, if youunderstand what I just heard is
that you experienced something,and one of the things we had to
challenge, especially working atTwitter on that time, is there
was this idea like we can't findengineers that look like me and
you, and obviously you takingthe initiatives, applying,
getting in.
And then did you hear what shesaid?
She said yo y'all need to pullup to Brown, because this is not
(04:44):
just me.
We got more of them that lookjust like me coming through.
So big round of applause toMiro.
Thank you so much for that,because it was a summer that was
very noticeable how welldiverse our class of internships
were Shout out to you man,giving everybody else the heads
up too.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, yeah, big shout outs, a lot of people do that.
Yeah, big shout-outs, a lot ofpeople do that.
Yeah, big shout-outs, you see.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I'm always bringing people that are supporting
people you know I hear you?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, big shout-outs.
That's what's up.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So after that internship, or in terms of your
tech career, graduating, goingto Brown, getting an internship
how did everything else fold outfor you?
Yeah, so during thoseinternships I was on a team
called QE, and that's a team Ijoined full-time when I was
first at Twitter yeah yeah, andthere were some really well,
first tell me what QE stands forquality engineering roger that
actually, at the time, it wasquality assurance, and so
they've rebranded yeah, yeah,definitely Darwin does our other
(05:40):
member of our crew, raymonddon't call him Ray Ray.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Big shout-outs to him .
He also used to do a lot ofquality insurance too, but I
like the fact that we'redefining it quality engineering,
because it definitely takes itto the next level.
But go ahead and tell us alittle bit about that.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, I worked mainly with just one other engineer.
We were on the consumer side ofquality engineering, so there's
ads there's consumer.
We did consumer qualityengineering.
So there's ads, there'sconsumer.
We did consumer qualityengineering.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I wrote backend I would call them API tests for a
team at Twitter called theTimelines Infrastructure Team.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Oh, Timelines, you know how important Timeline is,
yes, so let me just leteverybody else know how
important Timeline is.
When you go into the app andyou hit that, that scroll to
refresh the timeline.
That's the service that you'retalking about yeah, yeah, big
ups to you.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So it's really exciting.
I wrote tests like oh, when youblock someone like do their
tweets actually disappear fromyour timeline?
Very important yeah, yeah um,and I even got to work on some
stuff for gdpr oh, gdpr that itis very scary.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Um, and just to fill people in and gdpr because I'm
trying to figure what so uh, Idon't know.
There was an episode we had afew back on our podcast talking
about data and the and themysterious idea that data is
deleted rather than uh.
What, uh, I've always felt likeis we need regulation around it
because technically, all ofthese companies say they deleted
(07:06):
, but do they really delete it?
And that's what GDPR puteverybody's hands to the fire,
especially out in Europe, iswhere it really came out Exactly
.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Europe started it, and then tech companies were
like well, if we don't comply,we can't operate in Europe so
that's why Twitter was like wehave to be compliant with GDPR,
which meant we have to actuallydelete people's data.
We're saying we're deleting itand the other thing is we have
to let people download all oftheir data if they want to see
it.
(07:33):
And that's the part that I gotto work on.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Oh, that's cool, Isn't that like almost a queuing
service too, because it's likeyou submit it and then be like,
hey, I'll tell you when it'sdownloaded right Exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
yeah, you're not going to get your data right
away.
It's going to kick off a jobthat's going to go and assemble
all of that and put it togetherso you can download it, and my
role was to test the tool thateveryone would be using to
download their data to make sureit could handle the load of
everyone being like, oh cool, Ican download all of my data
right now, if you can imaginehow much data that is.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
It's amazing that number one we was able to store
that much, but then, as a user,being able to get that query
down to the level that validatesall of my data, and I really
appreciate your skill set as anengineer, because what you were
talking about is that you'rewriting code to confirm that
that function actually does whatit says it's going to do.
Right, yeah, and that's why QAengineering for me.
(08:27):
I've always been respectfulabout QA engineering because
then they really validate thatwe can do what we say we do
right.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Thank you very much Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
D Hustle says thank you, especially when I'm trying
to delete something For sure.
So that's your time working atTwitter.
You went from intern um intofull-time opportunity.
Uh, you did some qualityengineering.
Uh, did you ever uh report upto uh thaddeus?
You remember thaddeus?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
yeah, so thaddeus was my intern manager, actually my
second internship.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Oh, that's what's up let's give thaddeus a big round
of applause rip, rip, thaddeushe's one of our black
engineering managers that passedaway and I've always wanted to
make sure I give him some spacebecause he helped a lot of you
all get through that phase right.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, he really did.
He was so, like I said, he wasmy manager that summer that I
ended up getting my full-timeoffer, so he was a huge part of
that.
He really advocated for me.
Yeah yeah, he taught me a lot,like I.
You know, we met maybe everyother week, but I started to
realize, oh, it'd be better if Iupdate him more, and so I had.
(09:33):
I was sending like weeklyupdates to him on my progress
during my internship and ingeneral he was just like a very
kind person, a nice person tosee around the office.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I would always see him at breakfast, yeah, yeah
it's full time, even if I wasn'tworking directly with him yeah,
he'd always check in on great,great spirit and, like I said,
uh, he was one of our only few,yeah for sure a few black
engineering managers that we haduh, especially the young ones
coming up to look up to and, youknow, get some support in their
development and growth.
(10:04):
Um, and I'll tell you, everytime I go to a NSBE conference
and I don't see Thaddeus there,it just reminds me of those
moments, because he was one ofthose that was really not just
holding the door open, he waslike laying there and letting
people just go through it, rightyeah.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
QE hired so many people from NSBE.
Thad was a huge for nesb andfor taking it seriously as a
place to recruit from.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah let's give them another big round of
applause.
Rip, that is for sure, for sure, awesome.
So from qe uh to what else didyou end up doing at twitter?
Because you were there for howlong total I think five years,
five years that that's like inBay Area time you're like a
veteran by then.
(10:47):
Exactly Five years.
Look at you.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, it was a great five years After QE.
I actually just kind ofsideways transitioned to the
Timelines Infra team.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Oh, so you actually went to go work for Timelines?
Yeah, I'll be honest, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I knew them.
I was going to their meetingsand I thought what they worked
on was really awesome yeahthat's what's up Now.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
In terms of that team , you all were considered tier
one, like if it went down, therewas definitely some pager duty
type stuff, like the world knowsabout it right Once your system
starts to work.
But how did you feel about thatworking on systems at that
scale and that potential impact?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I think the way I felt about it changed throughout
my career.
So at first I was just like oh,I want to work on the coolest
and most high traffic and mostexciting thing the place where
all the new features arehappening and I just saw it as
something cool.
But later in my career I saw itas like a place to learn from
really smart people yeah umthese people who are on
(11:47):
timelines.
Most of them have been at thecompany for like seven, ten
years yeah, they knew so muchand they were so advanced in
their careers, they were justhappy to mentor me and teach me
things so um yeah, at first itwas like shiny new toy, but it
really became like just anamazing place to learn and grow
as an engineer.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, for sure, and I will say, in terms of services
that used to go down, timelinewasn't one of those that went
down that often, so y'all weredefinitely doing some really
good engineering over there.
A big shout out to that wholestaff over there because, like I
said, it's definitely impactfulwhen you work on something
where the world knows about itwhen it breaks.
And Asia Taylor, big shout.
Impactful when you work onsomething where the world knows
about it when it breaks.
(12:27):
Um, and asia taylor.
big shout out to asia taylor,asia, yeah we was down in miami
hanging out with asia for alittle bit, uh, and with the
backstage, with bobby deke, uh,conversation with her, um, and
her and I was talking about theimpact of compute, like it's
like, hey, when compute goesdown, all the things go and the
whole world knows about it.
So it's definitely great thatyou got that experience earlier,
um.
But so you know, um, I'm nottrying to jump too much into the
(12:48):
whole elon musk coming in andshaking the feathers and then
doing all that stuff, but I justwanted to know, in terms of how
did that all play out for you?
Did you kind of, you know, wasout before?
Is it something that you gotcaught up in?
And just, you know, just tryingto get a calibration?
I spend too much time talkingabout elon musk, but what
happened, meryl?
Speaker 1 (13:05):
yeah, I was there when, in april, he was like I'm
gonna buy twitter, um, and yeah,at the time, everyone on my
team was like we're just, youknow, we really like working
together.
We're not gonna let this changeanything about our day-to-day
yeah as much as possible, um,but then I was caught in the
first round of layoffs, yeah,which is.
It was pretty sad, and then therest of my team did not opt in,
(13:28):
so the whole, the whole team,the whole team's gone.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah yeah I know, but but we're sending that to his
way, right, it's not.
Uh, because in general Idefinitely had a lot of
colleagues, peers, um, because Iwas out before, so I've
overheard whispers of somethinggoing on and I was right and my
mindset I've already beenthrough.
(13:51):
When Jack came and gone andthen we had different CEOs, I
was like I don't even want to gothrough that again and I was
out and then I heard it was Elonand I was like uh-oh, this is
going to be something differentand definitely know that in
general, it's not you right,it's corporate, it's numbers and
reasons why they decide to docertain things.
But the big thing about that isis that your bounce back is
(14:13):
strong, right, because youalways moving and we definitely
always trying to take us there.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
So after actually one thing I want to talk about at
Twitter also is one of the coolthings that you and I both had
the pleasure of being a part ofis employee resource group ERG
called Blackbirds, and I'm justtrying to get calibrated on or
actually let me take it back,because I already know it's to
get our audience calibrated onthe impact that had to your
(14:40):
journey.
So tell us a little bit aboutBlackbirds and how that helped
you through your journey workingat Twitter.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, blackbirds was huge.
I mean, they're, first of all,just aren't, or were not a lot
of black people in theengineering department when I
first joined, and so if I knewthem it's because they, like,
saw me and sought me out,basically.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So having a group of other black people at work to
hang out with was really fun andjust the activities and things
that Blackbirds did reallycelebrated blackness and it's a
part of my identity that I don'tfeel like came through as much
as an engineer.
But, when I was with Blackbirdsit was like the main focus.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
You were family.
Then it was like yo and she'san engineer too.
Oh, we lit yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, it was just an amazing group.
Like we got to go to.
What was it?
Nsbe.
Nsbe and like Twitter, wouldput on this really cool party.
And we got to talk to studentsall day at the conference and,
just you know, be someone thatthey can look at and be like.
Oh, there's a place for me inthis industry as a black
engineer.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Yeah, 100%, and I tell you the impact that it had
to me because I'm one of thosethat I mean, people knew about
me but I try to stay in the cuta little bit so you can develop
and flourish.
But did having somebody like mein terms of in the engineering
organization help you, you know,cope with the challenges that
(16:10):
you dealt with?
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, absolutely Like .
I think I met you at NSBEactually.
The first NSBE I went to.
And just your, I don't knowyour sense of joy at being
around all these other blackpeople.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I'm going to give you a shout out Come on, let me get
my roses.
Bro.
Come on bro.
Come on D, come on bro.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Bro, I'll pay you a mix of $20 just to tell me that
you were right, I'm serious.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
You still call me Lil Bit, that's my nickname.
I really like that.
Yeah, it felt like a family andalso just like you're an SRE I
have a lot of respect for SREsbeing on Timelines Infra, and so
it was just really cool like ablack SRE at.
Twitter like who's reallysenior and really respected and
doing really impressive things.
(16:57):
That was very inspiring for me.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
See, I didn't have to pay her for that to happen.
You know that D right.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
You know that D right , you know that right.
Here's the 20.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
He's sliding money under the table.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Come on, player.
That's the real truth.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
No, I will say that the one thing that I enjoy about
my time working at Twitter isseeing the impact that my
influence had on a group of youall, because 2016,.
I was there already about three, four years moving right, and I
already figured out the hustle,I figured out the game, and I'm
(17:31):
like yo if what I can do isshow them how you can just be
yourself or be that light andjust shine it just a little bit,
because I know y'all shinebrighter than me, and, oh my
gosh.
I will not forget, though, thatsummer, when y'all came through
and just seeing how much thathelped y'all develop, and then,
obviously, seeing the impactthat it has over your time.
And you are right, it was toughbeing a black engineer, where
you didn't see that many peoplelook around that look like you,
(17:51):
but definitely when you foundone, we was like oh that mirror
what's?
up little bit.
What's good with you.
Everything's good over here alittle bit exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You really brought your whole self to work, which
is awesome yeah.
Because I had a hard time withthat sometimes.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, for sure so it was inspiring to see.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
You're bringing your whole self to work and you're
super successful and reallysmart.
And, like well-known she said,I'm successful and smart.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
You see D.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
All right, I told you $40.
$40.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I told you I was smart.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I told you $50 is.
I told you, I was smart.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
I told you Because you know what he knows.
I'm not going to stop when Iget back home to tell him what
you said about me.
This is true, no, but it'sactually kind of cool to hear
just how that helped you.
And not just you know a lot ofthe shiny things, but it's
(18:43):
actually the low-level conceptsand tech stuff that you
definitely mentioned in terms ofrespect, because it's like yo,
as an SRE, skill-wise, I'm notjust understanding code, but I'm
understanding systems, I'munderstanding infrastructure,
and then the team I'm working onwe're orchestrating this whole
thing.
And then it's like yo, one ofy'all coming hot on me, it don't
matter, I got you type stuff.
It always just felt so good tomake those type of contributions
because I knew long-term howit's going to impact your
(19:03):
journey.
So thank you for those kindwords.
For sure Appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Big shout-outs to Muriel See that's why I invited
her to this.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
The offer still stands, awesome, awesome.
So we're going to move on alittle bit past Twitter and
definitely big shout-outs toBlackbirds.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
And you actually helped establish Black.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Engineers at Twitter't.
You, yeah, actually talked tous a little bit about that black
engineers at twitter.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, black engineers at twitter was another employee
resource group, but it wasreally internal facing we didn't
have, you know, flash eventsand stuff.
It was really just about careergrowth.
Um baba tunday and chris cocowere kind of the first two to
start it yeah.
Yeah, and it was just likereading papers, discussing them,
and then we kind of branchedout to more having you know
(19:51):
managers come in and talk aboutperformance.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
But the thing I got out of it the most was just
visibility into you know who theyounger black engineers are and
knowing and having me be aresource for them to ask
questions yeah, um I had, youknow.
So I met with so many of themjust to talk about, uh, how to
communicate with your managerand like, what is a manager for
(20:15):
um, and things.
I dealt with going from swi oneto swi two, um, so that was the
best part of it for me was thatI didn't feel so burnt out, to
be honest, when I was able tomentor a lot of younger black
engineers and help them grow too.
Big shout out, big shout out toLaura.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, I mean, I remember one of the meetings
that you all had me come in anddo a little speaking on and Mike
Matano was in there and then.
So Mike Matano at the time waslike the head of all engineering
and then he's like, you know,everybody's asking a few
questions.
He's like, all right, doesanybody else have any questions?
And everybody's getting alittle quiet.
I was like, oh, hold on.
I got one question, mike, andthe way that I even said it, he
(21:04):
looked at me like all the impactthat this group, like black
engineers, in terms of ICsbecause these were ICs, not
managers is like yo, when we'regoing to see stuff like this on
the manager side of the housebecause we only had Thaddeus at
that time, right, and that wassomething that I felt like
number one in that moment withall the young black engineers
seeing that gave them, you knowthe, the feeling like hey, we
can speak up and talk aboutreally impactful stuff, but then
(21:26):
also seeing the results of that, because the results of that is
that then we started to haveblack engineering managers come
through um, and most of them I'mnot accrediting them to me
because they have to get throughthe interview process and stuff
like that, but more or lessit's like giving you all the
power to talk about that,especially when you have
somebody like mike matano at thetable.
I was just so amazed by theresults of that right, because
(21:47):
it's like I'm not just plantinga seed but I'm making sure I
pour something in there for itto grow.
You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, exactly, and that group helped retain I think
it helped retain blackengineers in general at Twitter.
Like just having a place wherewe can talk to each other about
career development and getadvice and just see other people
who might be dealing withsimilar things is really big for
all of them.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
We're talking some mile marker type stuff.
We're changing the orbit of theearth and changing how people
think, and definitelymindset-wise.
So, mero, if anybody hasn'ttold you, I really do appreciate
all you've ever done workingover there.
It definitely is something,especially somebody like me on
the sideline watching you growoh my gosh, I cannot believe
(22:32):
where you're at, what you'vegone through and the things that
you've achieved and the impactthat you've made in a lot of
people's lives.
So congratulations to her.
Give her a big round ofapplause.
Thanks, and you see she didn'tpay me for that.
No, no, All right, mero.
So definitely want to move on alittle bit in topic, because I
want to kind of get anunderstanding of where you're at
right now.
So tell me where you're at inyour journey, you know, let us
(22:54):
know what things you'reinterested in, things that
you're, you know, reallydabbling in.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And definitely talk about some tech because I don't
think we talked about know yourprogramming language.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Where were?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
your proficiency, that.
But before you start, yeah, thewolf is still a little more.
A little, you got up.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
No, no, no, no no, look at that indeed right,
what's up mero?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
yeah, um, in terms of programming languages at
Twitter, I use Scala the wholetime.
And it was not Scala 3 also, wenever upgraded to that.
So coming out of Twitter andlooking for a job, I was like,
okay, I need a language that isa little bit easier for people
to read like an interviewer.
So I picked up Python andthat's what I've been doing a
(23:45):
lot of lately is a lot of Python.
That's what I did in my mostrecent job too, working at Pilot
.
I used only Python there, whichwas really cool.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Yeah, I have.
So I have in terms of mycontributions now is I do a lot
of mentor coaching and one ofthe organizations that I spend a
lot of time with is CodePath.
You and I were talking about itbriefly and one of the things I
tell them is, like all thoseother languages are cool, I get
it, they're cool, but of all thehundreds of interviews that
I've done, the one thatcandidates get through the most
and I can actually understand acompetency level is Python.
(24:19):
Right, and I don't have toworry about semicolon, this,
that and this, building allthese constructs and building
all this stuff and object-wise,it's like yo can you write a
function Indentation?
Now I know, you know what we'retalking about type stuff.
So, yeah, pickups to you,picking up Python, Thanks.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, that's also exactly how I came to the
decision of Python is being aninterviewer at Twitter.
I was like this is the easiest.
I don't know Python, but I canread it and I can actually help
people debug it.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, yeah, and you are right, it's very readable
and also it's like the way thatit's written.
That's the way that it works.
And then there's too many damnlibraries out there, so you can
do just about everything.
That's what's up.
So tell us a little bit moreabout your journey.
Where are you at right now interms of skill-wise?
So we went from Scala to Python, and what are you dabbling in?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Right now I've been trying to learn React mostly
just to work on stuff on my own,like maybe some web stuff.
I haven't done a lot offront-end.
I'm very, very back-end focused, so React is making my brain
work in a different way.
But also it's JavaScript, soit's not just like learning
(25:26):
straight HTML which would bereally hard.
So I've been taking like anonline class, self-paced and
React, and I think I'll be ableto do some cool things with it.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
That's awesome, big, big up to you.
And as a technologist obviouslyworking on things on the side
or continuing to develop skillsI definitely feel like you're
embracing that right, because Ithink a lot of newer you know
engineers they think, hey, thisis just what I'm going to do.
And it's like, hey, if youdon't keep these knives sharp,
they get dulled too quick.
And then if you want to displayyou know skill sets, you got to
(25:57):
always be working on the nextcool thing.
I'm not a front-end type person.
I can't even put outfitstogether.
All I wear is black on black,because I just cannot really
match and and uh, really justget that artistic type outing
through stuff like that.
So I've never really embraceduh, front end like that in terms
of, just, you know, userexperience, a user uh graph, and
(26:18):
I just don't, I don't, I'm aback-end engineer.
I want just you call this api,this is your expected results
and things like that.
But it's always cool to youknow to develop the skills, um,
but yeah, so in terms of like,uh, being out here in the bay,
you've uh gone back to chicagolately, or how's, how's home
doing?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
how's the family doing?
How's all that?
Stuff going yeah, chicago isgreat.
I go back a few times a year um.
When's the last time I wentback, I think?
Oh, I went um in april it's mymom's birthday and we went to
indiana to see the eclipse happybirthday mom happy birthday and
and you went to go see theeclipse.
Yeah, yeah, we saw the totalityin indianapolis, which is
(26:57):
amazing oh, that's nice.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Was it like, uh, like a stadium type thing like they
had in dallas, where they wentto the stat dallas stadium and
they had it all open, or you'rejust outside, yeah, yeah, just
right outside a hotel like youcould take your glasses off and
look right at it, which wascrazy, yeah, yeah but, oh my
gosh, that that's that just evenjust thinking about as quickly
(27:19):
as it happens in terms of lightswitch, turn off and gets dead
dark and then switch back on.
Um, it's definitely somethingamazing to experience, yeah,
yeah.
So in terms of the bay, howlong you gonna be out here in
the bay?
I mean, you've been holding itdown for a minute though I know,
I know I don't really know.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I love I live in the presidio specifically like right
by baker beach.
It's beautiful, I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Rent is decent and she said something rent is
decent and there don't knowwhere it's at, but it sounds
good and she said something Rentis decent and there's free
parking.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Oh, look at that City life right, Exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
And I can park my 30-year-old Honda there without
it getting stolen.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Shout out to the 30-year-old Honda I'm a big fan,
yeah, big fan.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
You're talking to a car guy over here at D-Hustle
Anything old, especially if youhave to crank it to get it
started.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I have the crank windows too.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, the DX.
You see, he didn't know whichone it was.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
It's turquoise 1993.
Oh, full door, two-door,two-door, that's beautiful.
It has maybe 47,000 miles on it.
What, how?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
in the world.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
My grandma gave it to me.
Ah, shout out to grandma, she'slike I'm driving to the grocery
store, I drive it back.
That's it, wow.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
You see how he already knew what the car is.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
That's amazing.
I think the price might have tocome up for you.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
He's actually now.
You're negotiating other things, dean.
I'm going to have to buy thecar by the end of the show.
That is awesome.
Two-door coupe Honda Corollathey're the best man.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
They don't make those anymore.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
No, they don't.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I had a 91, just like yours.
Four-door DX had to crank thatwindow.
No sunroof.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Yeah, yeah, that actually makes me want to bring
up something In terms of theevolution of technology, right,
because we're talking aboutcranking up the window when
you're winding it up, versusjust having a button that you
press down and up.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I take those all day.
A regulator messes up on theregular power window.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Shout out to those 90 times.
So our show is full of tech.
Engineering and the culture.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
You don't have to write any wires, Shout out to
those 90 times.
So our show is full of tech,engineering and the culture and
this definitely checks that boxfor the culture.
But one thing about evolutionis I wanted to get your opinion
in terms of where we're at intech.
We're definitely dealing withan era where AI is mentioned and
plastered off of everything.
You have still a lot of peopleinterested in getting into tech.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
So I just wanted to get your opinion in terms of
where you feel we're at andwhere we're going.
In terms of where we're at,we're definitely at a crossroads
here with AI and I feel like Iwould tell people to just you,
don't have to jump into it.
Definitely know how to use it,don't be afraid of it, like if
you're using I learned how touse like GitHub Copilot at work
and you can't just let it writeeverything for you.
(30:15):
That's the thing.
It's not replacing us right now.
Do you?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
hear that, raymond.
So we got another member of ourteam Raymond, don't call him
Ray ray, uh and he's definitelyterrified of ai, right, and if
anything talks about taking jobs, he's the first one to jump in
front of it.
But I think you are right interms of, uh, familiarizing
yourself with it because it isaround the corner, yeah, like
know how to use it.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Like I don't know, way back when, when word
processors came out and typingit's like, don't be afraid of it
, it's not going to take yourjob, just know how to use it.
Like I don't know, way backwhen, when word processors came
out and typing it's like, don'tbe afraid of it, it's not going
to take your job, just know howto use it get ahead of it.
So that's my feeling Don'tchange your whole career.
Um, you know, build skills inyour own area, but also figure
out how you're going to have toincorporate AI tools in the
future.
Um, and I think companies aredoing the same thing.
(31:03):
They're not just being like,well, we're not going to exist
because of AI.
They're saying, like, how canwe use AI to make our product
better or to, like, create morecontent, or something like that?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Yeah for sure.
And if I think about just interms of your skillset, quality
engineer right, you can see codethat's being written and be
like you can't ship this or youcan't do this, or the
expectation is, is that you haveto be more test driven
developer, right, it's like, hey, as long as in uh, it must meet
this requirements in terms oftests before we can move things
forward.
So I think your past experiencedefinitely is giving you some
(31:36):
more insights into you know, thequality of code that's being
produced by these ai co-pilots.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Quote unquote do you feel like you have to double
check your work when you do AI?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Oh yeah, definitely.
Yeah, I mean one time I reliedon it a little too much, writing
some code and it was just kindof garbage code and the tests
were not well written and it cancopy-paste things pretty well,
but you need to add the humanelement and be like does this
make sense?
Is this actually testingsomething?
Will my tests fail if thingsaren't working?
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for 100%.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Listen to that, definitely A lot of people just
go with whatever the AI does.
That's not how it is Right.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
And just because your tests are green doesn't mean
they're good tests, that'sactually a really good gem.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Let's give her that If your tests are green, that
doesn't mean it's a good test.
That's actually a real funnyone, actually a little key.
I was watching this um codingcompetition and it was at some
university and it was the firsttime I saw it and I was like,
all right, let me see them.
They're using python to answersome leet code style questions,
right, and I'm like all right,and one of the first tests that,
(32:41):
or one of the first lines ofcode that they added was, uh,
just return false.
And they returned false and 25of the tests passed and I'm like
what?
Like how in the world is thateven possible?
It's like mindset wise.
You are right, you know.
Just because it says it's greendoesn't mean the code is good
right so I definitely want ouraudience, especially those that
are getting in the tech, to keepthat in mind.
Um, and I think that's a reallygood segue in terms of like
(33:03):
what?
What advice would you have forthe next generation of you know,
like minded people that were atBrown or, you know, in high
school, interested in computerscience?
What advice would you give themin terms of getting into the
field now?
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I feel like one big thing thatwe kind of miss with remote is
just people like relationships.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Like running to Bobby D at the office, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, I really miss that and I would say keep in
contact with your network, Likeone thing that happened this
year was that I was feeling likeI really missed my coworkers
from Twitter and I was like myfriend was like why don't you
just reach out to them?
And everyone was really happyto meet up with me or Zoom with
me.
They missed me too.
So my first advice isdefinitely keep in contact with
(33:56):
your network.
Just meet up with people forcoffee.
Your network is going to bereally helpful in getting you
jobs and just learning things,and also just having people to
give you advice is huge yeah um,I think another thing is along
with that uh, find mentors.
It's harder in the remote worldwe live in now to find mentors,
(34:16):
like I just met you at NSBE.
I met Chris Coco around theoffice.
I met Susan around the office.
These are just people I hadrandom encounters with, but we
don't have as many randomencounters now.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah, yeah, so for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, reach out to people, see if they'll mentor
you.
Like, don't be afraid to putyourself out there, but mentors
are really important and yeah,it's a little hard to find them
now, but they're out there andthey want a mentor yeah, yeah,
for sure, for sure, and I didwant to give a big shout out to
my guy, chris coco.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
What up, chris coco, my god, my god, my god for sure.
And and I tell you, uh, one ofthe things that I really take
away from this advice in termsof just your, your network, is
your net worth, is somethingI've tell a lot of people right,
and keeping connections withthem, with them right, it's even
when I was thinking about youknow, pulling up to SF, who I'm
like, yo, let me go highlightMurrow's like having that
(35:06):
connection and definitelyhelping you on your journey and
you're helping me on my journey.
That's how we get to wherewe're trying to go, right, and
it's it's.
There's a saying like.
It's like hey, uh, to getsomewhere good you go to in a
group I can't remember the exactsaying, we'll get the wording
right somewhere in there but ingeneral, it's like we have to
really just have that type ofconnection to really develop and
(35:27):
grow and truly like.
Even me, like as an engineer,one of the things that I always
needed was somebody that Ilooked up to and I had to push
myself, even though peoplelooked up to me.
It's like I had to havesomething or someone to look up
to, and that's why I alwaysshout out Chris Coco, because,
in terms of me, I always lookedup to him in terms of skill set
and his contributions.
It's that that community is sopowerful and definitely words of
(35:50):
wise and y'all have heard itfrom Meryl first.
Definitely really muchappreciate that.
Good shout out, good shout out.
All right, meryl.
So we're getting close to theend of our conversation here.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
No more money on the table D $80.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
$80.
Okay, I'll take it All, right,wow.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Can you believe that?
$80.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
That's wow, wow and a free ride, free ride, of honor,
free ride of honor.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I got you.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Oh my gosh.
But, meryl, before we close out, I want to give you an
opportunity to ask me anyquestions.
This is, like you know, at theend of the interview they're
like, hey, do you have anyquestions for me?
Right, it's like do you haveanything you know you want to
throw on the table?
Ask me about?
Speaker 1 (36:34):
this is your space and definitely if we're done
we'll close it out because we'vegot music queued up and ready
to go.
But what's up, Meryl, I have Idon't know, I kind of have a lot
of questions.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Let's go.
Let's go.
The clock is not.
There's no stop on the clock.
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I think it's really cool that you are not behind the
keyboard anymore and you'redoing a podcast.
That's really inspiring.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
The stuff that you learn and inspiring tons and
tons of people instead of justthe people you work with by
having the podcast.
So one, how did you come upwith this?
Speaker 3 (37:06):
How did.
I come up with the podcast solate night I was dreaming.
So one of the things that I'vealways felt about my experience
at Twitter is that a lot ofpeople ask me like yo, what type
of mentor were you?
And one of the things that Ialways tell them is that I felt
like I was a cultural mentor.
Right, I was only just here tohelp you figure out what's going
(37:29):
on on a keyboard.
But I want you to change yourmindset about you, because I can
see you be you, not you be youin front of them.
No, I want you to be you right.
And one of the things thatreally just helped me embrace
that even more is like theresults in terms of impact.
Like you, bobby Tunde, teyu,asia Taylor like just seeing
those results is like yo, I gotto find a way to impact my
community as directly aspossible.
(37:51):
Like how can I take what I'vedone at Twitter and turn it up
to 100,000?
Right, so I do speaking onstage.
I do a lot of public speaking.
I do community outreach withmentorship and coaching, but
nothing comes through morefluent than me being right here
in front of the camera, beingBobby D and just being myself
and really just taking that asthe next level of the type of
impact I want to make globally,because I want, globally, to get
(38:14):
this type of sauce and I'mdripping like nothing new, right
, it's like I'm trying to do thebest that I can to just reflect
that, and then obviously thecredibility comes with.
You know, I tell a lot of peoplelike, hey, um, you may not know
who I am, but you've definitelybeen impacted by the things
that I've done, right, and I say, hey, have you ever worked on
that?
Or use that social mediacompany, the one with the little
blue bird, remember that one?
(38:34):
Yeah, you didn't know that Iwas back there doing this, doing
that, and overall that justhelps that continued flow of
making the impact.
So that's the real reason whyI'm in these streets and the
more I give, the more I willreceive eventually, because I'm
poor.
But at the end of the day it'sjust the results and definitely
having opportunities to see theworld become a better place, so
(38:56):
that we can be vieweddifferently.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
You know what I'm saying yeah, exactly, but if a
better place, so that we can beviewed differently.
Yeah, you know I'm saying yeahexactly, but if you want to tell
us now ah, come on.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
But no, that's that's the reason why we started the
podcast and we do, you know,community development um
newsletter.
We do a published monthlynewsletter, but yeah, that's
that's the reason why yeah,thank you for the question
looking around getting me toreally almost drop a tear,
Almost almost.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
The other one, related to that, is just what
was it like taking the leap,like leaving Twitter, leaving
the keyboard, leaving the techcareer, at least for now.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Doing something totally different and not tech.
And yeah, what was that likefor you?
Oh, man.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
You don't know how many nights I was dreaming and
manifesting about this stuff,and I'm one of those that I tell
my wife that I have asuperpower, like when I get
obsessed about something, I gettoo obsessive about it, and for
her it's like you're just toodamn obsessive.
All right, but it is somethingthat I really dreamt of seeing.
So I'm still working towardsthe thing that I've envisioned,
(40:03):
and one of the things that I hadto do was take that leap.
I talked to my mom about it andshe was like you know what?
You've always been somebodythat I've never had doubt that
you're not going to be able toget to where you got to go.
And she told me when you jump,just jump with your eyes open,
so don't be afraid of it, right,um, and with the support of my
family, uh, supported D hustle,saying he's going to ride with
me and hold it down, even thoughhe's trying to pay somebody off
(40:26):
on the side, though it's justthat that support that I have
around me has really just givenme, um, uh, the feeling of you
know, like hey, um, they'regoing to hold me down as we go
on this journey, because it'sgoing to be tough, and I will
say I miss the keyboard.
I do miss it, especially atthat level of engineering.
It's once in a lifetime, right.
(40:47):
And the experience of, you know, blackbirds, black engineers at
Twitter that's once in alifetime, right.
So I was definitely gratefulfor having those experiences.
But I needed to tell the world,right, I needed to get out there
so that other people can see,number one, what we've done and
we can get credit for it,instead of somebody else be like
yo, it's all crap.
And then all of a sudden likehey, I want to build everything
(41:08):
on it, like I don't even knowwhat Elon's talking about, but
anyways, it just was reallytough to make that decision.
I knew what the impact would be.
And then you said somethingearlier that I can get back at
it because I they ain't gotnothing on me, because I'm an
80s baby, I came up from adifferent type of era.
I can get back anytime I want.
Um.
So I'm not really, you know,thinking that I'm retired and
(41:28):
never going to be at thekeyboard again.
It's just right now.
It is a pause, um, and at thattime, um, my family is what gave
me that support.
Yeah, for sure yeah, family'shuge support or I be stressed
Even though I got all these grayhairs.
Can you believe I got grayslike this, mero?
I don't see any.
You don't see any.
Ah, you see, you need some dye.
Thank you, mero.
(41:48):
Thank you, thank you so much.
Awesome, that was a reallygreat question and thank you for
that.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Anything else on the top on my mind, but yeah, really
inspiring what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Yeah, thank you so much, and I do want to say thank
you for being a part of thisjourney.
We're writing this in time andnobody can take it away from us,
right?
So definitely very muchappreciate you making a trip out
here to come and holler at us,laugh a little bit and have a
really good conversation,because I think it's definitely
going to be impactful, not justto me I've got a tear coming out
(42:22):
of my eye but impactful to ouraudience and definitely those
that are going to come and hearus later.
So big shout outs to you, mero.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Little bit, little bit is out of here.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Cue up the music D Hustle.
I have a question for both ofyou, bro.
I'm trying to cue up the music.
Man, I gonna give it to you allright.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
All right, go ahead.
What's up?
As being both of you are beingx twitter.
Do you guys ever think thatthere will be another?
Black bird another one now thatelon musk is there.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
No, no, no, not there , not, not in that building not
in that building um, and I don'treally think there can be
another one, because it wassomething that was really really
special um and it was reallythe group that came up to help
reignite and develop it.
And then the impact that we hadin terms of our community
outside.
What would you say, meryl?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Yeah, I agree.
Just the timing of theBlackbirds community growing at
the same time, that Twitter wasgrowing so much, and all these
things that happened at the sametime, like going to see the
Black Panther movie, I feel likethat just built up the
excitement.
And there is yeah, there isBlack Twitter like it existed
outside of the building so.
(43:28):
I don't.
I don't know how you'd createthose uh conditions.
That's either.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
I don't know either, and and talk about Black Twitter
.
Did you see the Hulu episode ofBlack Twitter yet?
No, so the Hulu just did amicro documentary.
It's a few different partsabout black twitter, which they
did bring in some people fromblack birds, but it's mostly
black birds out in new york,they ain't coming.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Holla at us over here , where we really started, and
stuff like that and we out hereengineering and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
But much love.
All I want to say is hulu, yowrite me, write me a check.
I'll do a whole Blackbirds,black Engineers and Mero will be
starring in it.
Bobby D will be there, chris.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Coco will be there.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
D Hustle will be holding it down, bobby Tune, all
of us will be there.
So, hulu, I'm putting in a plug, I'm manifesting that in the
future.
But yeah, thank you so much,Mero, for that great
conversation, enlighten us onyour journey and, man, I'm so
grateful.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
I'm so grateful.
I'm grateful for you.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
For sure.
D-Hustle where we at with thatmusic player.
Oh yeah, yo, I don't know abouty'all, but all of the things
that we've just been recording,hit that button right there.
You know the Raymond, don'tCall Him Ray Ray.
Yeah, yeah, them gems right,all the gems that we've been
dropping today.
I want y'all to continue totune in.
(44:42):
There's a button that's calledrewind.
You press that button, it goesback and then you play it again,
because Mero was dropping somegems for sure, for sure.
And then you heard a few goodthings about me too.
You know, bobby D, thanks a lot.
D always holding it down, butalways, uh, definitely.
Thank y'all for tuning in toBackstage with Bobby D.
We got more episodes comingthrough, meryl, little bit, keep
(45:05):
doing you.
We appreciate you.
All right, all right, take careof yourself.
Thanks so much.
Turn it up, turn it up.
We're definitely at a crossroads here with AI.
I feel like I would tell peopleto just you, don't have to jump
into it, definitely know how touse it, don't be afraid of it.
I learned how to use GitHubCopilot at work and you can't
just let it write everything foryou.
That's the thing.
It's not replacing us right now,one big thing that we kind of
(00:22):
miss with remote is just peoplelike relationships.
My first advice is definitelykeep in contact with your
network.
Just meet up with people forcoffee.
Your network is going to bereally helpful in getting you
jobs and just learning things,and also just having people to
give you advice is huge yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Welcome, welcome, welcome to our next episode?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
What up player?
What's going on?
D-hustle, guess where we at man, san Francisco.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
We out west player.
Can you believe it?
We really, we're really faraway and I have a special guest
that we're going to have aconversation with this afternoon
.
It's one of somebody that I'veseen start off from the
beginning of time, bro,especially working at Twitter.
Yeah, step in the door.
She was shining so bright atthe beginning.
So we are going to have aconversation with a really cool
(01:23):
mentee of mine that I've had apleasure working with at Twitter
See her growth where she's atand we're definitely going to
fill that in.
I want to welcome to the stageMeryl Meryl.
Go ahead and give a round ofapplause.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Meryl, welcome to the stage.
Hey, Thanks for having me.
What up, meryl, how you doing.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Great, how's San Fran been treating you?
It's been treating me well yeahyeah, yeah, you just got off the
Caltrain, so you're makingmoves up from San Francisco all
the way down south a little bit.
We are in the South Bay.
So those that are going to seeme in a later episode when I say
I'm in San Francisco, I'm inthe South Bay right now, but
(02:07):
we're going back up toSalesforce T, but today we're
dedicating our time to Meryl.
Definitely, give her a round ofapplause, round of applause.
So, meryl, uh, we're gonna justkick our conversation off.
Um, and just like I mentionedto you during our pre-show is, I
definitely want to make surethat people hear your voice,
hear your journey, um, anddefinitely like the impact that,
um, seeing somebody like me,you know roaming in the streets,
at Twitter, you know, at thekeyboard, but also how's that
you know impacted your journeyoverall.
(02:28):
And we'll first start off withjust give us a quick
introduction about yourself.
Let us know where you're fromand definitely when you got
started in tech.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, I'm Meryl.
Obviously you know that I wouldsay I got started in tech
actually back in high school.
I'm from Chicago.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I had the Chi-town, chicago, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Shout out to all my Bulls friends out, there Go
Bulls, go White Sox.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
There you go Wow.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
You see, how they call it out like that right.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I like it.
Yeah, I had this really coolcomputer science teacher.
He was really motivated to getmore women into computer science
so he really, uh, aimed hisclasses at female students um.
I took computer science thereyeah I went to a really cool
summer camp at berkeley where Igot to actually visit twitter
(03:19):
way back in like 2009 oh, lookat that.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
She was over there before I even touched ground, so
technically she was introducingme to.
I even touched ground, sotechnically she was introducing
me to twitter, not meintroducing to her.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, it was an amazing opportunity.
It was a camp for black andlatinx kids and really inspired
me.
So then I kept doing computerscience.
I majored in it in college.
What school you went to?
I went to.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
University, right, y'all had a whole crew that
pulled up, won an internship asummer and I was like dang Brown
is kind of deep out there incomputer science.
Big shout outs to them.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
The funny thing is that when I first applied to
Twitter I think I was asophomore in college they
weren't recruiting at Brown atall, so I just saw the job
posting, I applied, I got theinternship and then I talked to
the recruiters like Faria and Iwas like you really should be
going to Brown, and so I liketold all these Brown students to
(04:14):
come intern at Twitter becauseI had such an awesome time.
So then, in 2016,.
There were so many of us.
Yeah, let's put a pin rightthere.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Because, first of all , give a big round of applause
for sure, because, if youunderstand what I just heard is
that you experienced something,and one of the things we had to
challenge, especially working atTwitter on that time, is there
was this idea like we can't findengineers that look like me and
you, and obviously you takingthe initiatives, applying,
getting in.
And then did you hear what shesaid?
She said yo y'all need to pullup to Brown, because this is not
(04:44):
just me.
We got more of them that lookjust like me coming through.
So big round of applause toMiro.
Thank you so much for that,because it was a summer that was
very noticeable how welldiverse our class of internships
were Shout out to you man,giving everybody else the heads
up too.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, yeah, big shout outs, a lot of people do that.
Yeah, big shout-outs, a lot ofpeople do that.
Yeah, big shout-outs, you see.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I'm always bringing people that are supporting
people you know I hear you?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, big shout-outs.
That's what's up.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So after that internship, or in terms of your
tech career, graduating, goingto Brown, getting an internship
how did everything else fold outfor you?
Yeah, so during thoseinternships I was on a team
called QE, and that's a team Ijoined full-time when I was
first at Twitter yeah yeah, andthere were some really well,
first tell me what QE stands forquality engineering roger that
actually, at the time, it wasquality assurance, and so
they've rebranded yeah, yeah,definitely Darwin does our other
(05:40):
member of our crew, raymonddon't call him Ray Ray.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Big shout-outs to him .
He also used to do a lot ofquality insurance too, but I
like the fact that we'redefining it quality engineering,
because it definitely takes itto the next level.
But go ahead and tell us alittle bit about that.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, I worked mainly with just one other engineer.
We were on the consumer side ofquality engineering, so there's
ads there's consumer.
We did consumer qualityengineering.
So there's ads, there'sconsumer.
We did consumer qualityengineering.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I wrote backend I would call them API tests for a
team at Twitter called theTimelines Infrastructure Team.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Oh, Timelines, you know how important Timeline is,
yes, so let me just leteverybody else know how
important Timeline is.
When you go into the app andyou hit that, that scroll to
refresh the timeline.
That's the service that you'retalking about yeah, yeah, big
ups to you.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So it's really exciting.
I wrote tests like oh, when youblock someone like do their
tweets actually disappear fromyour timeline?
Very important yeah, yeah um,and I even got to work on some
stuff for gdpr oh, gdpr that itis very scary.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Um, and just to fill people in and gdpr because I'm
trying to figure what so uh, Idon't know.
There was an episode we had afew back on our podcast talking
about data and the and themysterious idea that data is
deleted rather than uh.
What, uh, I've always felt likeis we need regulation around it
because technically, all ofthese companies say they deleted
(07:06):
, but do they really delete it?
And that's what GDPR puteverybody's hands to the fire,
especially out in Europe, iswhere it really came out Exactly
.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Europe started it, and then tech companies were
like well, if we don't comply,we can't operate in Europe so
that's why Twitter was like wehave to be compliant with GDPR,
which meant we have to actuallydelete people's data.
We're saying we're deleting itand the other thing is we have
to let people download all oftheir data if they want to see
it.
(07:33):
And that's the part that I gotto work on.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Oh, that's cool, Isn't that like almost a queuing
service too, because it's likeyou submit it and then be like,
hey, I'll tell you when it'sdownloaded right Exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
yeah, you're not going to get your data right
away.
It's going to kick off a jobthat's going to go and assemble
all of that and put it togetherso you can download it, and my
role was to test the tool thateveryone would be using to
download their data to make sureit could handle the load of
everyone being like, oh cool, Ican download all of my data
right now, if you can imaginehow much data that is.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
It's amazing that number one we was able to store
that much, but then, as a user,being able to get that query
down to the level that validatesall of my data, and I really
appreciate your skill set as anengineer, because what you were
talking about is that you'rewriting code to confirm that
that function actually does whatit says it's going to do.
Right, yeah, and that's why QAengineering for me.
(08:27):
I've always been respectfulabout QA engineering because
then they really validate thatwe can do what we say we do
right.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Thank you very much Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
D Hustle says thank you, especially when I'm trying
to delete something For sure.
So that's your time working atTwitter.
You went from intern um intofull-time opportunity.
Uh, you did some qualityengineering.
Uh, did you ever uh report upto uh thaddeus?
You remember thaddeus?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
yeah, so thaddeus was my intern manager, actually my
second internship.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Oh, that's what's up let's give thaddeus a big round
of applause rip, rip, thaddeushe's one of our black
engineering managers that passedaway and I've always wanted to
make sure I give him some spacebecause he helped a lot of you
all get through that phase right.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, he really did.
He was so, like I said, he wasmy manager that summer that I
ended up getting my full-timeoffer, so he was a huge part of
that.
He really advocated for me.
Yeah yeah, he taught me a lot,like I.
You know, we met maybe everyother week, but I started to
realize, oh, it'd be better if Iupdate him more, and so I had.
(09:33):
I was sending like weeklyupdates to him on my progress
during my internship and ingeneral he was just like a very
kind person, a nice person tosee around the office.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I would always see him at breakfast, yeah, yeah
it's full time, even if I wasn'tworking directly with him yeah,
he'd always check in on great,great spirit and, like I said,
uh, he was one of our only few,yeah for sure a few black
engineering managers that we haduh, especially the young ones
coming up to look up to and, youknow, get some support in their
development and growth.
(10:04):
Um, and I'll tell you, everytime I go to a NSBE conference
and I don't see Thaddeus there,it just reminds me of those
moments, because he was one ofthose that was really not just
holding the door open, he waslike laying there and letting
people just go through it, rightyeah.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
QE hired so many people from NSBE.
Thad was a huge for nesb andfor taking it seriously as a
place to recruit from.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah let's give them another big round of
applause.
Rip, that is for sure, for sure, awesome.
So from qe uh to what else didyou end up doing at twitter?
Because you were there for howlong total I think five years,
five years that that's like inBay Area time you're like a
veteran by then.
(10:47):
Exactly Five years.
Look at you.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, it was a great five years After QE.
I actually just kind ofsideways transitioned to the
Timelines Infra team.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Oh, so you actually went to go work for Timelines?
Yeah, I'll be honest, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I knew them.
I was going to their meetingsand I thought what they worked
on was really awesome yeahthat's what's up Now.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
In terms of that team , you all were considered tier
one, like if it went down, therewas definitely some pager duty
type stuff, like the world knowsabout it right Once your system
starts to work.
But how did you feel about thatworking on systems at that
scale and that potential impact?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I think the way I felt about it changed throughout
my career.
So at first I was just like oh,I want to work on the coolest
and most high traffic and mostexciting thing the place where
all the new features arehappening and I just saw it as
something cool.
But later in my career I saw itas like a place to learn from
really smart people yeah umthese people who are on
(11:47):
timelines.
Most of them have been at thecompany for like seven, ten
years yeah, they knew so muchand they were so advanced in
their careers, they were justhappy to mentor me and teach me
things so um yeah, at first itwas like shiny new toy, but it
really became like just anamazing place to learn and grow
as an engineer.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, for sure, and I will say, in terms of services
that used to go down, timelinewasn't one of those that went
down that often, so y'all weredefinitely doing some really
good engineering over there.
A big shout out to that wholestaff over there because, like I
said, it's definitely impactfulwhen you work on something
where the world knows about itwhen it breaks.
And Asia Taylor, big shout.
Impactful when you work onsomething where the world knows
about it when it breaks.
(12:27):
Um, and asia taylor.
big shout out to asia taylor,asia, yeah we was down in miami
hanging out with asia for alittle bit, uh, and with the
backstage, with bobby deke, uh,conversation with her, um, and
her and I was talking about theimpact of compute, like it's
like, hey, when compute goesdown, all the things go and the
whole world knows about it.
So it's definitely great thatyou got that experience earlier,
um.
But so you know, um, I'm nottrying to jump too much into the
(12:48):
whole elon musk coming in andshaking the feathers and then
doing all that stuff, but I justwanted to know, in terms of how
did that all play out for you?
Did you kind of, you know, wasout before?
Is it something that you gotcaught up in?
And just, you know, just tryingto get a calibration?
I spend too much time talkingabout elon musk, but what
happened, meryl?
Speaker 1 (13:05):
yeah, I was there when, in april, he was like I'm
gonna buy twitter, um, and yeah,at the time, everyone on my
team was like we're just, youknow, we really like working
together.
We're not gonna let this changeanything about our day-to-day
yeah as much as possible, um,but then I was caught in the
first round of layoffs, yeah,which is.
It was pretty sad, and then therest of my team did not opt in,
(13:28):
so the whole, the whole team,the whole team's gone.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah yeah I know, but but we're sending that to his
way, right, it's not.
Uh, because in general Idefinitely had a lot of
colleagues, peers, um, because Iwas out before, so I've
overheard whispers of somethinggoing on and I was right and my
mindset I've already beenthrough.
(13:51):
When Jack came and gone andthen we had different CEOs, I
was like I don't even want to gothrough that again and I was
out and then I heard it was Elonand I was like uh-oh, this is
going to be something differentand definitely know that in
general, it's not you right,it's corporate, it's numbers and
reasons why they decide to docertain things.
But the big thing about that isis that your bounce back is
(14:13):
strong, right, because youalways moving and we definitely
always trying to take us there.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
So after actually one thing I want to talk about at
Twitter also is one of the coolthings that you and I both had
the pleasure of being a part ofis employee resource group ERG
called Blackbirds, and I'm justtrying to get calibrated on or
actually let me take it back,because I already know it's to
get our audience calibrated onthe impact that had to your
(14:40):
journey.
So tell us a little bit aboutBlackbirds and how that helped
you through your journey workingat Twitter.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, blackbirds was huge.
I mean, they're, first of all,just aren't, or were not a lot
of black people in theengineering department when I
first joined, and so if I knewthem it's because they, like,
saw me and sought me out,basically.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So having a group of other black people at work to
hang out with was really fun andjust the activities and things
that Blackbirds did reallycelebrated blackness and it's a
part of my identity that I don'tfeel like came through as much
as an engineer.
But, when I was with Blackbirdsit was like the main focus.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
You were family.
Then it was like yo and she'san engineer too.
Oh, we lit yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, it was just an amazing group.
Like we got to go to.
What was it?
Nsbe.
Nsbe and like Twitter, wouldput on this really cool party.
And we got to talk to studentsall day at the conference and,
just you know, be someone thatthey can look at and be like.
Oh, there's a place for me inthis industry as a black
engineer.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Yeah, 100%, and I tell you the impact that it had
to me because I'm one of thosethat I mean, people knew about
me but I try to stay in the cuta little bit so you can develop
and flourish.
But did having somebody like mein terms of in the engineering
organization help you, you know,cope with the challenges that
(16:10):
you dealt with?
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, absolutely Like .
I think I met you at NSBEactually.
The first NSBE I went to.
And just your, I don't knowyour sense of joy at being
around all these other blackpeople.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I'm going to give you a shout out Come on, let me get
my roses.
Bro.
Come on bro.
Come on D, come on bro.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Bro, I'll pay you a mix of $20 just to tell me that
you were right, I'm serious.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
You still call me Lil Bit, that's my nickname.
I really like that.
Yeah, it felt like a family andalso just like you're an SRE I
have a lot of respect for SREsbeing on Timelines Infra, and so
it was just really cool like ablack SRE at.
Twitter like who's reallysenior and really respected and
doing really impressive things.
(16:57):
That was very inspiring for me.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
See, I didn't have to pay her for that to happen.
You know that D right.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
You know that D right , you know that right.
Here's the 20.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
He's sliding money under the table.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Come on, player.
That's the real truth.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
No, I will say that the one thing that I enjoy about
my time working at Twitter isseeing the impact that my
influence had on a group of youall, because 2016,.
I was there already about three, four years moving right, and I
already figured out the hustle,I figured out the game, and I'm
(17:31):
like yo if what I can do isshow them how you can just be
yourself or be that light andjust shine it just a little bit,
because I know y'all shinebrighter than me, and, oh my
gosh.
I will not forget, though, thatsummer, when y'all came through
and just seeing how much thathelped y'all develop, and then,
obviously, seeing the impactthat it has over your time.
And you are right, it was toughbeing a black engineer, where
you didn't see that many peoplelook around that look like you,
(17:51):
but definitely when you foundone, we was like oh that mirror
what's?
up little bit.
What's good with you.
Everything's good over here alittle bit exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You really brought your whole self to work, which
is awesome yeah.
Because I had a hard time withthat sometimes.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, for sure so it was inspiring to see.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
You're bringing your whole self to work and you're
super successful and reallysmart.
And, like well-known she said,I'm successful and smart.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
You see D.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
All right, I told you $40.
$40.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I told you I was smart.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I told you $50 is.
I told you, I was smart.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
I told you Because you know what he knows.
I'm not going to stop when Iget back home to tell him what
you said about me.
This is true, no, but it'sactually kind of cool to hear
just how that helped you.
And not just you know a lot ofthe shiny things, but it's
(18:43):
actually the low-level conceptsand tech stuff that you
definitely mentioned in terms ofrespect, because it's like yo,
as an SRE, skill-wise, I'm notjust understanding code, but I'm
understanding systems, I'munderstanding infrastructure,
and then the team I'm working onwe're orchestrating this whole
thing.
And then it's like yo, one ofy'all coming hot on me, it don't
matter, I got you type stuff.
It always just felt so good tomake those type of contributions
because I knew long-term howit's going to impact your
(19:03):
journey.
So thank you for those kindwords.
For sure Appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Big shout-outs to Muriel See that's why I invited
her to this.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
The offer still stands, awesome, awesome.
So we're going to move on alittle bit past Twitter and
definitely big shout-outs toBlackbirds.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
And you actually helped establish Black.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Engineers at Twitter't.
You, yeah, actually talked tous a little bit about that black
engineers at twitter.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, black engineers at twitter was another employee
resource group, but it wasreally internal facing we didn't
have, you know, flash eventsand stuff.
It was really just about careergrowth.
Um baba tunday and chris cocowere kind of the first two to
start it yeah.
Yeah, and it was just likereading papers, discussing them,
and then we kind of branchedout to more having you know
(19:51):
managers come in and talk aboutperformance.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
But the thing I got out of it the most was just
visibility into you know who theyounger black engineers are and
knowing and having me be aresource for them to ask
questions yeah, um I had, youknow.
So I met with so many of themjust to talk about, uh, how to
communicate with your managerand like, what is a manager for
(20:15):
um, and things.
I dealt with going from swi oneto swi two, um, so that was the
best part of it for me was thatI didn't feel so burnt out, to
be honest, when I was able tomentor a lot of younger black
engineers and help them grow too.
Big shout out, big shout out toLaura.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, I mean, I remember one of the meetings
that you all had me come in anddo a little speaking on and Mike
Matano was in there and then.
So Mike Matano at the time waslike the head of all engineering
and then he's like, you know,everybody's asking a few
questions.
He's like, all right, doesanybody else have any questions?
And everybody's getting alittle quiet.
I was like, oh, hold on.
I got one question, mike, andthe way that I even said it, he
(21:04):
looked at me like all the impactthat this group, like black
engineers, in terms of ICsbecause these were ICs, not
managers is like yo, when we'regoing to see stuff like this on
the manager side of the housebecause we only had Thaddeus at
that time, right, and that wassomething that I felt like
number one in that moment withall the young black engineers
seeing that gave them, you knowthe, the feeling like hey, we
can speak up and talk aboutreally impactful stuff, but then
(21:26):
also seeing the results of that, because the results of that is
that then we started to haveblack engineering managers come
through um, and most of them I'mnot accrediting them to me
because they have to get throughthe interview process and stuff
like that, but more or lessit's like giving you all the
power to talk about that,especially when you have
somebody like mike matano at thetable.
I was just so amazed by theresults of that right, because
(21:47):
it's like I'm not just plantinga seed but I'm making sure I
pour something in there for itto grow.
You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, exactly, and that group helped retain I think
it helped retain blackengineers in general at Twitter.
Like just having a place wherewe can talk to each other about
career development and getadvice and just see other people
who might be dealing withsimilar things is really big for
all of them.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
We're talking some mile marker type stuff.
We're changing the orbit of theearth and changing how people
think, and definitelymindset-wise.
So, mero, if anybody hasn'ttold you, I really do appreciate
all you've ever done workingover there.
It definitely is something,especially somebody like me on
the sideline watching you growoh my gosh, I cannot believe
(22:32):
where you're at, what you'vegone through and the things that
you've achieved and the impactthat you've made in a lot of
people's lives.
So congratulations to her.
Give her a big round ofapplause.
Thanks, and you see she didn'tpay me for that.
No, no, All right, mero.
So definitely want to move on alittle bit in topic, because I
want to kind of get anunderstanding of where you're at
right now.
So tell me where you're at inyour journey, you know, let us
(22:54):
know what things you'reinterested in, things that
you're, you know, reallydabbling in.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And definitely talk about some tech because I don't
think we talked about know yourprogramming language.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Where were?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
your proficiency, that.
But before you start, yeah, thewolf is still a little more.
A little, you got up.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
No, no, no, no no, look at that indeed right,
what's up mero?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
yeah, um, in terms of programming languages at
Twitter, I use Scala the wholetime.
And it was not Scala 3 also, wenever upgraded to that.
So coming out of Twitter andlooking for a job, I was like,
okay, I need a language that isa little bit easier for people
to read like an interviewer.
So I picked up Python andthat's what I've been doing a
(23:45):
lot of lately is a lot of Python.
That's what I did in my mostrecent job too, working at Pilot
.
I used only Python there, whichwas really cool.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Yeah, I have.
So I have in terms of mycontributions now is I do a lot
of mentor coaching and one ofthe organizations that I spend a
lot of time with is CodePath.
You and I were talking about itbriefly and one of the things I
tell them is, like all thoseother languages are cool, I get
it, they're cool, but of all thehundreds of interviews that
I've done, the one thatcandidates get through the most
and I can actually understand acompetency level is Python.
(24:19):
Right, and I don't have toworry about semicolon, this,
that and this, building allthese constructs and building
all this stuff and object-wise,it's like yo can you write a
function Indentation?
Now I know, you know what we'retalking about type stuff.
So, yeah, pickups to you,picking up Python, Thanks.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, that's also exactly how I came to the
decision of Python is being aninterviewer at Twitter.
I was like this is the easiest.
I don't know Python, but I canread it and I can actually help
people debug it.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, yeah, and you are right, it's very readable
and also it's like the way thatit's written.
That's the way that it works.
And then there's too many damnlibraries out there, so you can
do just about everything.
That's what's up.
So tell us a little bit moreabout your journey.
Where are you at right now interms of skill-wise?
So we went from Scala to Python, and what are you dabbling in?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Right now I've been trying to learn React mostly
just to work on stuff on my own,like maybe some web stuff.
I haven't done a lot offront-end.
I'm very, very back-end focused, so React is making my brain
work in a different way.
But also it's JavaScript, soit's not just like learning
(25:26):
straight HTML which would bereally hard.
So I've been taking like anonline class, self-paced and
React, and I think I'll be ableto do some cool things with it.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
That's awesome, big, big up to you.
And as a technologist obviouslyworking on things on the side
or continuing to develop skillsI definitely feel like you're
embracing that right, because Ithink a lot of newer you know
engineers they think, hey, thisis just what I'm going to do.
And it's like, hey, if youdon't keep these knives sharp,
they get dulled too quick.
And then if you want to displayyou know skill sets, you got to
(25:57):
always be working on the nextcool thing.
I'm not a front-end type person.
I can't even put outfitstogether.
All I wear is black on black,because I just cannot really
match and and uh, really justget that artistic type outing
through stuff like that.
So I've never really embraceduh, front end like that in terms
of, just, you know, userexperience, a user uh graph, and
(26:18):
I just don't, I don't, I'm aback-end engineer.
I want just you call this api,this is your expected results
and things like that.
But it's always cool to youknow to develop the skills, um,
but yeah, so in terms of like,uh, being out here in the bay,
you've uh gone back to chicagolately, or how's, how's home
doing?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
how's the family doing?
How's all that?
Stuff going yeah, chicago isgreat.
I go back a few times a year um.
When's the last time I wentback, I think?
Oh, I went um in april it's mymom's birthday and we went to
indiana to see the eclipse happybirthday mom happy birthday and
and you went to go see theeclipse.
Yeah, yeah, we saw the totalityin indianapolis, which is
(26:57):
amazing oh, that's nice.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Was it like, uh, like a stadium type thing like they
had in dallas, where they wentto the stat dallas stadium and
they had it all open, or you'rejust outside, yeah, yeah, just
right outside a hotel like youcould take your glasses off and
look right at it, which wascrazy, yeah, yeah but, oh my
gosh, that that's that just evenjust thinking about as quickly
(27:19):
as it happens in terms of lightswitch, turn off and gets dead
dark and then switch back on.
Um, it's definitely somethingamazing to experience, yeah,
yeah.
So in terms of the bay, howlong you gonna be out here in
the bay?
I mean, you've been holding itdown for a minute though I know,
I know I don't really know.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I love I live in the presidio specifically like right
by baker beach.
It's beautiful, I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Rent is decent and she said something rent is
decent and there don't knowwhere it's at, but it sounds
good and she said something Rentis decent and there's free
parking.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Oh, look at that City life right, Exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
And I can park my 30-year-old Honda there without
it getting stolen.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Shout out to the 30-year-old Honda I'm a big fan,
yeah, big fan.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
You're talking to a car guy over here at D-Hustle
Anything old, especially if youhave to crank it to get it
started.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I have the crank windows too.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, the DX.
You see, he didn't know whichone it was.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
It's turquoise 1993.
Oh, full door, two-door,two-door, that's beautiful.
It has maybe 47,000 miles on it.
What, how?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
in the world.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
My grandma gave it to me.
Ah, shout out to grandma, she'slike I'm driving to the grocery
store, I drive it back.
That's it, wow.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
You see how he already knew what the car is.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
That's amazing.
I think the price might have tocome up for you.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
He's actually now.
You're negotiating other things, dean.
I'm going to have to buy thecar by the end of the show.
That is awesome.
Two-door coupe Honda Corollathey're the best man.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
They don't make those anymore.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
No, they don't.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I had a 91, just like yours.
Four-door DX had to crank thatwindow.
No sunroof.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Yeah, yeah, that actually makes me want to bring
up something In terms of theevolution of technology, right,
because we're talking aboutcranking up the window when
you're winding it up, versusjust having a button that you
press down and up.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I take those all day.
A regulator messes up on theregular power window.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Shout out to those 90 times.
So our show is full of tech.
Engineering and the culture.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
You don't have to write any wires, Shout out to
those 90 times.
So our show is full of tech,engineering and the culture and
this definitely checks that boxfor the culture.
But one thing about evolutionis I wanted to get your opinion
in terms of where we're at intech.
We're definitely dealing withan era where AI is mentioned and
plastered off of everything.
You have still a lot of peopleinterested in getting into tech.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
So I just wanted to get your opinion in terms of
where you feel we're at andwhere we're going.
In terms of where we're at,we're definitely at a crossroads
here with AI and I feel like Iwould tell people to just you,
don't have to jump into it.
Definitely know how to use it,don't be afraid of it, like if
you're using I learned how touse like GitHub Copilot at work
and you can't just let it writeeverything for you.
(30:15):
That's the thing.
It's not replacing us right now.
Do you?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
hear that, raymond.
So we got another member of ourteam Raymond, don't call him
Ray ray, uh and he's definitelyterrified of ai, right, and if
anything talks about taking jobs, he's the first one to jump in
front of it.
But I think you are right interms of, uh, familiarizing
yourself with it because it isaround the corner, yeah, like
know how to use it.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Like I don't know, way back when, when word
processors came out and typingit's like, don't be afraid of it
, it's not going to take yourjob, just know how to use it.
Like I don't know, way backwhen, when word processors came
out and typing it's like, don'tbe afraid of it, it's not going
to take your job, just know howto use it get ahead of it.
So that's my feeling Don'tchange your whole career.
Um, you know, build skills inyour own area, but also figure
out how you're going to have toincorporate AI tools in the
future.
Um, and I think companies aredoing the same thing.
(31:03):
They're not just being like,well, we're not going to exist
because of AI.
They're saying, like, how canwe use AI to make our product
better or to, like, create morecontent, or something like that?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Yeah for sure.
And if I think about just interms of your skillset, quality
engineer right, you can see codethat's being written and be
like you can't ship this or youcan't do this, or the
expectation is, is that you haveto be more test driven
developer, right, it's like, hey, as long as in uh, it must meet
this requirements in terms oftests before we can move things
forward.
So I think your past experiencedefinitely is giving you some
(31:36):
more insights into you know, thequality of code that's being
produced by these ai co-pilots.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Quote unquote do you feel like you have to double
check your work when you do AI?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Oh yeah, definitely.
Yeah, I mean one time I reliedon it a little too much, writing
some code and it was just kindof garbage code and the tests
were not well written and it cancopy-paste things pretty well,
but you need to add the humanelement and be like does this
make sense?
Is this actually testingsomething?
Will my tests fail if thingsaren't working?
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for 100%.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Listen to that, definitely A lot of people just
go with whatever the AI does.
That's not how it is Right.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
And just because your tests are green doesn't mean
they're good tests, that'sactually a really good gem.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Let's give her that If your tests are green, that
doesn't mean it's a good test.
That's actually a real funnyone, actually a little key.
I was watching this um codingcompetition and it was at some
university and it was the firsttime I saw it and I was like,
all right, let me see them.
They're using python to answersome leet code style questions,
right, and I'm like all right,and one of the first tests that,
(32:41):
or one of the first lines ofcode that they added was, uh,
just return false.
And they returned false and 25of the tests passed and I'm like
what?
Like how in the world is thateven possible?
It's like mindset wise.
You are right, you know.
Just because it says it's greendoesn't mean the code is good
right so I definitely want ouraudience, especially those that
are getting in the tech, to keepthat in mind.
Um, and I think that's a reallygood segue in terms of like
(33:03):
what?
What advice would you have forthe next generation of you know,
like minded people that were atBrown or, you know, in high
school, interested in computerscience?
What advice would you give themin terms of getting into the
field now?
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I feel like one big thing thatwe kind of miss with remote is
just people like relationships.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Like running to Bobby D at the office, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, I really miss that and I would say keep in
contact with your network, Likeone thing that happened this
year was that I was feeling likeI really missed my coworkers
from Twitter and I was like myfriend was like why don't you
just reach out to them?
And everyone was really happyto meet up with me or Zoom with
me.
They missed me too.
So my first advice isdefinitely keep in contact with
(33:56):
your network.
Just meet up with people forcoffee.
Your network is going to bereally helpful in getting you
jobs and just learning things,and also just having people to
give you advice is huge yeah um,I think another thing is along
with that uh, find mentors.
It's harder in the remote worldwe live in now to find mentors,
(34:16):
like I just met you at NSBE.
I met Chris Coco around theoffice.
I met Susan around the office.
These are just people I hadrandom encounters with, but we
don't have as many randomencounters now.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah, yeah, so for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, reach out to people, see if they'll mentor
you.
Like, don't be afraid to putyourself out there, but mentors
are really important and yeah,it's a little hard to find them
now, but they're out there andthey want a mentor yeah, yeah,
for sure, for sure, and I didwant to give a big shout out to
my guy, chris coco.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
What up, chris coco, my god, my god, my god for sure.
And and I tell you, uh, one ofthe things that I really take
away from this advice in termsof just your, your network, is
your net worth, is somethingI've tell a lot of people right,
and keeping connections withthem, with them right, it's even
when I was thinking about youknow, pulling up to SF, who I'm
like, yo, let me go highlightMurrow's like having that
(35:06):
connection and definitelyhelping you on your journey and
you're helping me on my journey.
That's how we get to wherewe're trying to go, right, and
it's it's.
There's a saying like.
It's like hey, uh, to getsomewhere good you go to in a
group I can't remember the exactsaying, we'll get the wording
right somewhere in there but ingeneral, it's like we have to
really just have that type ofconnection to really develop and
(35:27):
grow and truly like.
Even me, like as an engineer,one of the things that I always
needed was somebody that Ilooked up to and I had to push
myself, even though peoplelooked up to me.
It's like I had to havesomething or someone to look up
to, and that's why I alwaysshout out Chris Coco, because,
in terms of me, I always lookedup to him in terms of skill set
and his contributions.
It's that that community is sopowerful and definitely words of
(35:50):
wise and y'all have heard itfrom Meryl first.
Definitely really muchappreciate that.
Good shout out, good shout out.
All right, meryl.
So we're getting close to theend of our conversation here.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
No more money on the table D $80.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
$80.
Okay, I'll take it All, right,wow.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Can you believe that?
$80.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
That's wow, wow and a free ride, free ride, of honor,
free ride of honor.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I got you.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Oh my gosh.
But, meryl, before we close out, I want to give you an
opportunity to ask me anyquestions.
This is, like you know, at theend of the interview they're
like, hey, do you have anyquestions for me?
Right, it's like do you haveanything you know you want to
throw on the table?
Ask me about?
Speaker 1 (36:34):
this is your space and definitely if we're done
we'll close it out because we'vegot music queued up and ready
to go.
But what's up, Meryl, I have Idon't know, I kind of have a lot
of questions.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Let's go.
Let's go.
The clock is not.
There's no stop on the clock.
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I think it's really cool that you are not behind the
keyboard anymore and you'redoing a podcast.
That's really inspiring.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
The stuff that you learn and inspiring tons and
tons of people instead of justthe people you work with by
having the podcast.
So one, how did you come upwith this?
Speaker 3 (37:06):
How did.
I come up with the podcast solate night I was dreaming.
So one of the things that I'vealways felt about my experience
at Twitter is that a lot ofpeople ask me like yo, what type
of mentor were you?
And one of the things that Ialways tell them is that I felt
like I was a cultural mentor.
Right, I was only just here tohelp you figure out what's going
(37:29):
on on a keyboard.
But I want you to change yourmindset about you, because I can
see you be you, not you be youin front of them.
No, I want you to be you right.
And one of the things thatreally just helped me embrace
that even more is like theresults in terms of impact.
Like you, bobby Tunde, teyu,asia Taylor like just seeing
those results is like yo, I gotto find a way to impact my
community as directly aspossible.
(37:51):
Like how can I take what I'vedone at Twitter and turn it up
to 100,000?
Right, so I do speaking onstage.
I do a lot of public speaking.
I do community outreach withmentorship and coaching, but
nothing comes through morefluent than me being right here
in front of the camera, beingBobby D and just being myself
and really just taking that asthe next level of the type of
impact I want to make globally,because I want, globally, to get
(38:14):
this type of sauce and I'mdripping like nothing new, right
, it's like I'm trying to do thebest that I can to just reflect
that, and then obviously thecredibility comes with.
You know, I tell a lot of peoplelike, hey, um, you may not know
who I am, but you've definitelybeen impacted by the things
that I've done, right, and I say, hey, have you ever worked on
that?
Or use that social mediacompany, the one with the little
blue bird, remember that one?
(38:34):
Yeah, you didn't know that Iwas back there doing this, doing
that, and overall that justhelps that continued flow of
making the impact.
So that's the real reason whyI'm in these streets and the
more I give, the more I willreceive eventually, because I'm
poor.
But at the end of the day it'sjust the results and definitely
having opportunities to see theworld become a better place, so
(38:56):
that we can be vieweddifferently.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
You know what I'm saying yeah, exactly, but if a
better place, so that we can beviewed differently.
Yeah, you know I'm saying yeahexactly, but if you want to tell
us now ah, come on.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
But no, that's that's the reason why we started the
podcast and we do, you know,community development um
newsletter.
We do a published monthlynewsletter, but yeah, that's
that's the reason why yeah,thank you for the question
looking around getting me toreally almost drop a tear,
Almost almost.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
The other one, related to that, is just what
was it like taking the leap,like leaving Twitter, leaving
the keyboard, leaving the techcareer, at least for now.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Doing something totally different and not tech.
And yeah, what was that likefor you?
Oh, man.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
You don't know how many nights I was dreaming and
manifesting about this stuff,and I'm one of those that I tell
my wife that I have asuperpower, like when I get
obsessed about something, I gettoo obsessive about it, and for
her it's like you're just toodamn obsessive.
All right, but it is somethingthat I really dreamt of seeing.
So I'm still working towardsthe thing that I've envisioned,
(40:03):
and one of the things that I hadto do was take that leap.
I talked to my mom about it andshe was like you know what?
You've always been somebodythat I've never had doubt that
you're not going to be able toget to where you got to go.
And she told me when you jump,just jump with your eyes open,
so don't be afraid of it, right,um, and with the support of my
family, uh, supported D hustle,saying he's going to ride with
me and hold it down, even thoughhe's trying to pay somebody off
(40:26):
on the side, though it's justthat that support that I have
around me has really just givenme, um, uh, the feeling of you
know, like hey, um, they'regoing to hold me down as we go
on this journey, because it'sgoing to be tough, and I will
say I miss the keyboard.
I do miss it, especially atthat level of engineering.
It's once in a lifetime, right.
(40:47):
And the experience of, you know, blackbirds, black engineers at
Twitter that's once in alifetime, right.
So I was definitely gratefulfor having those experiences.
But I needed to tell the world,right, I needed to get out there
so that other people can see,number one, what we've done and
we can get credit for it,instead of somebody else be like
yo, it's all crap.
And then all of a sudden likehey, I want to build everything
(41:08):
on it, like I don't even knowwhat Elon's talking about, but
anyways, it just was reallytough to make that decision.
I knew what the impact would be.
And then you said somethingearlier that I can get back at
it because I they ain't gotnothing on me, because I'm an
80s baby, I came up from adifferent type of era.
I can get back anytime I want.
Um.
So I'm not really, you know,thinking that I'm retired and
(41:28):
never going to be at thekeyboard again.
It's just right now.
It is a pause, um, and at thattime, um, my family is what gave
me that support.
Yeah, for sure yeah, family'shuge support or I be stressed
Even though I got all these grayhairs.
Can you believe I got grayslike this, mero?
I don't see any.
You don't see any.
Ah, you see, you need some dye.
Thank you, mero.
(41:48):
Thank you, thank you so much.
Awesome, that was a reallygreat question and thank you for
that.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Anything else on the top on my mind, but yeah, really
inspiring what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Yeah, thank you so much, and I do want to say thank
you for being a part of thisjourney.
We're writing this in time andnobody can take it away from us,
right?
So definitely very muchappreciate you making a trip out
here to come and holler at us,laugh a little bit and have a
really good conversation,because I think it's definitely
going to be impactful, not justto me I've got a tear coming out
(42:22):
of my eye but impactful to ouraudience and definitely those
that are going to come and hearus later.
So big shout outs to you, mero.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Little bit, little bit is out of here.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Cue up the music D Hustle.
I have a question for both ofyou, bro.
I'm trying to cue up the music.
Man, I gonna give it to you allright.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
All right, go ahead.
What's up?
As being both of you are beingx twitter.
Do you guys ever think thatthere will be another?
Black bird another one now thatelon musk is there.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
No, no, no, not there , not, not in that building not
in that building um, and I don'treally think there can be
another one, because it wassomething that was really really
special um and it was reallythe group that came up to help
reignite and develop it.
And then the impact that we hadin terms of our community
outside.
What would you say, meryl?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Yeah, I agree.
Just the timing of theBlackbirds community growing at
the same time, that Twitter wasgrowing so much, and all these
things that happened at the sametime, like going to see the
Black Panther movie, I feel likethat just built up the
excitement.
And there is yeah, there isBlack Twitter like it existed
outside of the building so.
(43:28):
I don't.
I don't know how you'd createthose uh conditions.
That's either.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
I don't know either, and and talk about Black Twitter
.
Did you see the Hulu episode ofBlack Twitter yet?
No, so the Hulu just did amicro documentary.
It's a few different partsabout black twitter, which they
did bring in some people fromblack birds, but it's mostly
black birds out in new york,they ain't coming.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Holla at us over here , where we really started, and
stuff like that and we out hereengineering and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
But much love.
All I want to say is hulu, yowrite me, write me a check.
I'll do a whole Blackbirds,black Engineers and Mero will be
starring in it.
Bobby D will be there, chris.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Coco will be there.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
D Hustle will be holding it down, bobby Tune, all
of us will be there.
So, hulu, I'm putting in a plug, I'm manifesting that in the
future.
But yeah, thank you so much,Mero, for that great
conversation, enlighten us onyour journey and, man, I'm so
grateful.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
I'm so grateful.
I'm grateful for you.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
For sure.
D-Hustle where we at with thatmusic player.
Oh yeah, yo, I don't know abouty'all, but all of the things
that we've just been recording,hit that button right there.
You know the Raymond, don'tCall Him Ray Ray.
Yeah, yeah, them gems right,all the gems that we've been
dropping today.
I want y'all to continue totune in.
(44:42):
There's a button that's calledrewind.
You press that button, it goesback and then you play it again,
because Mero was dropping somegems for sure, for sure.
And then you heard a few goodthings about me too.
You know, bobby D, thanks a lot.
D always holding it down, butalways, uh, definitely.
Thank y'all for tuning in toBackstage with Bobby D.
We got more episodes comingthrough, meryl, little bit, keep
(45:05):
doing you.
We appreciate you.
All right, all right, take careof yourself.
Thanks so much.
Turn it up, turn it up.
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