August 2, 2024 • 38 mins
Witold discusses the labour market under Hammurabi of Babylon. What kind of work could you get, and what would you be paid in exchange? Who would be looking for employment, who would take them on, and who held the balance of power?
1:45 how we know about getting a job
2:54 who are the job seekers?
3:48 how common was it?
4:58 what jobs are there beyond harvest time?
6:17 what kind of people are working?
8:19 how good were conditions?
11:12 different jobs for men and women?
13:03 do workers replace you or work alongside you?
15:22 salary
20:04 about beer
21:03 alcohol content
22:45 balance of power
25:13 challenging rogue employers
26:39 discipline
29:31 child labour
33:45 new book
Witold's university page
Witold's Academia page
Music by Ruba Hillawi
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:13):
Hello, and welcome to Thin Endof the Wedge. The podcast where
experts from around the worldshare new and interesting
stories about life in theancient Middle East. My name is
Jon. Each episode I talk tofriends and colleagues and get
them to explain their work in away we can all understand.
Finding work is about as normalan activity as there is.
(00:37):
Cuneiform tablets reveal detailsof what it was like to do this
4000 years ago. What kinds ofwork were available? Who might
get these jobs? And would youreally want them?
Our guest is a specialist inBabylonia during the time of
Hammurabi. He has beenresearching labour in Babylonia
(00:57):
for many years now, making himthe ideal person to help us
understand the ancient jobmarket. So get yourself a cup of
tea, make yourself comfortable,and let's meet today's guest.
(01:19):
Hello, and welcome to Thin Endof the Wedge. Thank you for
joining us.
Morning. Thank you.
Could you tell us please (01:24):
who are you, and what do you do?
My name is Witold Tyborowski. Ilive in Poznan, Poland, and I'm
a professor at Adam MickiewiczUniversity in Poznan. I'm a
historian. My speciality isancient Mesopotamia. And more
precisely, the first half of thesecond millennium BC Hammurabi:
and his times.
(01:45):
Okay, and we're talking aboutHammurabi this morning. In
particular, we're talking abouta topic of timeless interest:
how to get a job. So could youset the scene maybe, please, and
explain how do we know anythingabout how you get a job during
the time of Hammurabi?
So economy is always veryimportant for society and for
single people. And so,fortunately, we have a huge
(02:09):
number of documents, cuneiformdocuments, from third, second,
and first millennia BCE. Yearsago, I started to study them.
And what I found (02:18):
some economic issues were more important for
people than the others. Andnamely, it was very surprising
for me, getting job; hiring oflabour, getting employed, the
time conditions, the purpose ofhiring. This is really
fascinating, as I didn't supposethat we might get so many
(02:40):
details from before 4000 yearsago, about the conditions and
time and leisure, and so on, andso on about very ordinary things
of everyday life of people ofthat time.
Yeah, yeah. This is brilliant.
So I guess the first questionhas to be, you know, who are the
people looking for a job?
(03:00):
These were usually quite poorpeople who did not own their own
possessions. And so they didn'thave their farms, or their
workshops. But they had time, ofcourse, and they wanted to
survive simply so they neededmeans for life. And so they were
looking for job. And they werelooking in places and palace and
(03:22):
rich people households, to getjob and so to live ... simply to
live. Usually, they were a man.
However, we have quite a numberof women who are also employed
or who are given to work to suchplaces, which is also very
interesting, because I did notexpect women looking for job or
being hired or employed in thesevery times.
(03:48):
Do we have any sense of thenumbers of people? Is this a
relatively small group? Or isthis a very common thing?
Surprisingly, it was quite acommon thing, because especially
in large farms, they neededlabour, human labour, during
harvests and sowing time. So inthe spring, and in the autumn,
(04:11):
and then they really needed alarge number of workers. There
were two ways of employingpeople; namely in groups for
hire for harvest. And this wasdone by commission. And so by
some people brought groups ofpeople. And there were many
hires of single people. And thesingle people were hired, or
(04:33):
were employed to do peculiarjobs, which are quite often
named in the contracts. Andthey're rarely hired for or
employed to do harvest labour,harvest work, because harvest
work was done by groups. And soif anyone hired single people
for harvest, it meant that thiswas a very tough period when any
(04:55):
hands do work were important.
So you mentioned there about theimportance of harvest time for
employment. Is that the kind ofjob that the palace can offer,
then, or are there other jobsavailable?
Most often it was harvest. Alsocattle breeding was, this was
the second after harvest jobthat the palace or other
(05:15):
institutional household couldoffer. And so harvesters ...
also it was a very popular job,because no peculiar skills were
needed during harvest. Justbasic works with hands. And if
anyone was hired or employed ina workshop, some skills were
needed. And so that's ratherrarer. And sometimes we find
(05:39):
very peculiar jobs had to beperformed. In one contract, a
priestly office is offered to anemployee. It was a pashihu
priest who was employed for onemonth, to perform a job in the
temple. It was very surprising,because you might think we might
expect that any priestly workshould have been done by a
(06:02):
specialist who was somehowintroduced in this and was
skilled and so on. And here youhave an ordinary man to perform
a priestly job. So there is avariety of things that the
employees could do.
I wonder if we could probe in alittle bit more depth about who
the people are? So I waswondering, are these citizens;
(06:24):
maybe they've fallen on hardtimes or they belong to a strata
of society where they justregularly do this kind of work?
Or is it semi-nomadic or nomadicpeople who are coming in, and
you utilise the extra labourwhen it's available? I mean,
what's the role of slaves orprisoners of war?
As I have said that at thebeginning, these were definitely
(06:45):
some poor people. So you mighthave expected that they were
some nomads, and so peoplecoming from the steppe or from
abroad, from areas where theemployment could not have been
provided. But the names, youcannot judge it by their names,
and the names are givenregularly. Because it appears to
(07:06):
be that Mesopotamia was reallydeeply Akkadianised. So Akkadian
names were also quite oftenamong nomads. So when you look
at their names, practically,they're never characterised by
any tribal or national identity.
So they're just people ofcertain names, and the names are
almost always typical Akkadiannames.
(07:31):
But what is quite significant,patronymics quite often are not
rarely are given. So they werenot characterised, but any roots
in families or tribes. If theydidn't want to characterise
them, it seems that they werenot important members in this.
(07:52):
Very rarely seal impressions ofthe employees can be found in
the documents. So in thesecases, you suppose that these
were not poor people, notinsignificant people, but they
were someone if they possesstheir own or near family seals.
So this happened, but basically,they were people who just were
(08:14):
ordinary people who lived inthis society, and they just were
looking means for living.
Alright. So, can you tell us alittle bit then about what it
was like to perform these jobs?
What are the conditions?
So, the documents, thecontracts, which we have, they
paid little attention to this.
However, they are quitenumerous. So we can infer some
(08:35):
details, information from themanyway. And so, in a third of
all the documents, the purposeof hire or employment is given.
But such conditions as aredetermined as for example, that
the worker, the employee, hasthe right of one day free every
(08:56):
10 days. So in a month, eachworker is entitled to be free
for three days. And so it wasrelatively heavy work.
When the work is named, it isusually a heavy one, because,
for example, grinding grain orwork in a palace household,
(09:18):
named as tupshikkum, forexample; it can be translated as
"bringing a basket with earth".
It is clear that when anyoneneeded a labourer, and was ready
to pay for him some money, somesalary, so it was definitely an
important work and so ratherheavy work. And if we look at
the salaries, they surelyreflect that worker, the
(09:43):
employee was to work heavily.
Also those who employed theworkers, they were not very rich
people and so they took them inneed. It is clear that next to
the hired labour, employedlabour, also the members of the
family were active in householdsin farms. So the workers were
(10:07):
taken in when they were reallynecessary. And so no one could
take a worker, just for someindistinct works.
What else can we say? Some otherconditions were also determined.
For example, that the employerwas to provide food and drink.
And it is sometimes determinedhow large should be the drink,
(10:30):
and food. And the quota whichthe employee was to receive, we
can see that he was to eat goodfood and drink a lot of usually
beer. So to be able to perform aheavy work. This was an economic
process, this was a necessity,which was held by the employer.
(10:51):
So the employer was ratherexpecting that the workers would
do a good job, heavy work.
Finally, the women who wereemployed, they constitute only
about 15% of all the staff whichwas employed. So if they were so
few, we can also say that theywere simply not able to work
(11:12):
harder. And so that's why theemployers preferred men, because
they could provide better work.
Are they doing the same job? Sois it a case of, well, I need
somebody to help with theharvest, I'd rather have a man?
Or with a woman be doingweaving? Is there a difference
in the type of work offered?
(11:33):
Yes, we can say that there was adifference. What is interesting,
when you have women beingemployed, they are usually
employed by women. And they areemployed for a shorter time,
usually one month. And so thereis a suggestion, it's my guess,
that these women who wereemployed, they performed some
(11:56):
work at their mistresses'shouseholds. And when they are
priestesses, and we have tensuch examples, there, the men
couldn't simply enter someplaces or do some works. And so
they were rather personalservice, the women, than the
regular work typical also formen. And so when the employer
(12:20):
wanted anyone who could providegood labour, then he preferred
men, because he was to be usedfor such work, which women
couldn't provide. In one caseonly, we have a woman employed
who was to grind grain duringone year. So this is a very
(12:44):
special situation. The womanmust have been a very strong
person. And so the employerdecided to take her, in spite of
the fact that she was a woman.
And so physically, seemingly notvery fit for such work. But
anyway, he took her because thiswas a situation when she could.
When people are performing thesetasks, are they working
(13:06):
alongside the employer? Is itextra help? Or are they working
instead of that person doing thejob?
I think that the regularsituation was that the employed
workers, they worked with thefamily members of the employer.
This is very clear, because whenwe have the employers,
fortunately, we have a hugenumber of other documents. In
(13:28):
many cases, we can find theemployers as owners of some
households. So if a largehouseholder employs only one
man, so we can expect that heworked next to some other
people. We also have situationwith when one employer employs
men in the first month of theyear, second, and fifth. And so
(13:50):
he needed more and more, and hetook men whenever it was
necessary to avoid leisure time,a period when the worker
wouldn't do anything. And wehave a number of documents, when
for example, it is stipulatedthat if a worker will be lazy,
and will not perform the job hewas hired for, then he would not
(14:13):
get any salary, even he wouldforfeit, he would lose any
rights to get any money. And soit was a situation, a system in
which the employer was verycareful to use properly the
employed person.
And we also know sometimes thenames of sons of the employer.
(14:34):
And we can guess at that timethey were relatively young, the
sons, so they had to work nextto the employed person. I think
that only when we have the caseof the harvesters, who are
employed in groups, sometimes inlarge groups. We have one
situation when a commissionergets huge money to bring workers
(14:58):
for a princess, Iltani. And themoney he gets would be enough to
get about 120 workers. And so insuch cases, the members of the
family of the employer were notsignificant, because they were
only few. And so these employerscould allow employing large
numbers, large enough to makefree and members of his own
(15:21):
family.
We've touched a couple of timeson salary, basically, what do
you get in exchange for work.
And you started talking aboutthe provision of food and drink.
I wonder, could you say a littlebit more about that, please?
Because if you're working outin, you know, collecting the
harvest, or something like that,hard manual work, you're going
to be burning a lot of calories.
(15:41):
Do we know quite what they'regetting to fuel that?
Yes, when the food and drink isdetailed, when it's spoken of,
in the document, it's a goodamount of both to let the worker
do a good job. And sometimes,however, it says that the worker
would feed himself or that hewould dress himself, because
(16:04):
dress ,clothing, is alsomentioned, sometimes. You may
wonder, and it is not clear,whether in these cases, the
worker when he wants to feedhimself was to go outside of the
household of the employer and gosomewhere to eat or it was just
alluding the salary. So, itwould be extracted from the
(16:28):
salary of the worker, when hewas to feed himself? But anyway,
was rather provided the food bythe employer, because it would
be not economic, if the workerwas to leave the household of
the employer and go somewherefor food. These details,
basically, I think, areconnected with salary. So
(16:50):
whether it was to be larger,when the worker was to feed
himself or it would be smaller,fewer when the worker was to be
fed by the employer.
I think that as far as thesalary is concerned, however, it
varies very much, definitelydepending from the work which
was to be performed. A regularpayment for a month, for one
(17:14):
month, when a worker is takenfor one month, is one shekel
silver, which was equal to onegur barley, so 300 liters.
However, when the worker wastaken for longer, for the whole
year, the salary varied from twoshekels or two gur silver, till
(17:36):
six gur, six silver. It may besurprising that we must
recognise this amount from twoto six shekels or more silver as
regular, as average, because theaverage you would expect three
or four, four or five, but wehave two to six. Sometimes,
(17:56):
however, the payments are quitehigh, even more than 10 shekels
of silver, more than 10 gur ofbarley. Definitely the worker
was to perform a more importantwork or a harder work.
And for example, we havesituation when such work is
stated. So it's work at abrewer's workshops, or grinding
(18:22):
grain when the work was hardest,and the salary was highest. But
in other cases, for example,when we have a very small
salary. In five cases, we have asalary so small that only in
these cases we can supposechildren being employed.
(18:46):
Children, it was not reasonablefrom economic point of view, to
take for work, because theycouldn't do any serious,
effective work. But anyway,sometimes they were taken, and
they were paid very littlemoney.
What is also quite significant,we cannot see that the workers
(19:06):
worked for debt. You certainlyknow that working for debt is
mentioned in the laws ofHammurabi. And it was supposed
quite often by the scholars thatdebts were worked in the
household of the man who gavethem money, but we cannot
observe it in the contracts.
Quite possibly, because in suchcases, the contracts were not
(19:29):
drafted. Contracts, documentswere written in peculiar
situations, basically, tocommemorate the transfer of a
man from one man to another.
Coming back to the salary, somethings remain unclear. So the
salary varies very much.
Basically, there were two means
of payment (19:51):
silver and grain, and so barley. With this variety
of the salary, we can justwonder what was the reason, but
there are many things still tobe answered.
You also mentioned that peoplewill be supplied with beer. And
there is quite a big discussion,isn't there, about what the beer
is.
(20:11):
I think it was just a kind ofalcoholic drink, not to be
rotten in the heat of theMesopotamian climate. We cannot
be sure, of course.
Unfortunately, documents useonly Sumerian ideogram in this
situation, and always the same.
The documents which are quitenumerous, because the contracts
(20:35):
alone amount to about 300documents, plus the huge number
of harvest labour contracts. Butanyway, they're very regular in
the phraseology they use. And soit's just a matter of
speculation. Surely, it wasn'tanything delicious, anything
special. It was just a basicdrink with alcohol to provide a
(20:59):
healthy refrigerator to workers?
Hmm, well, the alcohol isanother interesting aspect,
isn't it. The beer would be agood source of calories, which
you'd need. But then if you'reout doing hard work, especially
in the heat, then alcohol isn'ta great thing to have for
hydration purposes. And that'sthe kind of thing that might
(21:20):
make you underperform andtherefore not get paid. And if
you're, you know, using sharptools, and you don't want to be
too drunk, the text won'texplicitly say how strong the
beer was. But as you reconstructthe text, do you have a picture
in your mind of how alcoholicthat beer is?
I think that regular drink namedbeer with alcohol, will have
(21:40):
very small amount of alcohol init. Basically, not to let the
people get drunk. Only in onedocument, when a man is taken to
work at the brewers workshop,and so the document states, that
worker would not drink too much.
So it would mean that in thiscase, he had contact with the
(22:01):
regular beer with good amount ofalcohol. And so he could have
got addicted, and he could havewanted to drink more. But it was
a peculiar situation when he hadaccess to regular beer with
larger amounts of alcohol. Butin other cases, I think that
first the employer who providedthe drink, he surely tried to
(22:24):
make it cheap, and so of lowquality. Just to let the workers
drink, not to make them drunk,because then they wouldn't work
effectively. And so I think itwasn't anything to be jealous
about.
(22:45):
I can imagine. Do you have asense of the balance of power in
these relationships? Is it thatpeople are desperate for work,
so they'll take anythingwhenever it comes up? Or is it
really that the employers aredesperate for the manpower, and
so they'll pay what it takes toget the people when they need
them?
(23:05):
Surprisingly, in the light ofthe contract documents, you can
see that the employers were moredetermined to get labour than
the workers themselves. And sofor example, we have documents
when the contract is broken bythe workers, by the employees.
In two pairs of documents, wehave a situation when the worker
(23:26):
broke the documents, and so gaveup and went away from the
household of the employer. Andso he lost the right to get any
salary. And in one case, after afew months, the same employer
takes the same man and pays himeven more than before. So after
three months, exactly. So hereclearly, the employer was
(23:49):
determined to get this man. Andhe paid more to encourage him to
harder work.
And in another situation, afather gave his son to an
employer, he was a tradesman, amerchant. Five days later, the
same father gives out the sameson to another employer, where
(24:12):
the son would not have to goabroad to perform any dangerous
job. You surely know the opinionthat the Mesopotamian economy
lacked manpower, lacked labour.
And so I would say that OldBabylonian documents reflect
this fact, this phenomenon, thatthe people who were able and
wanted to work, they could findit quite easily. Whereas those
(24:36):
who needed labour and manpower,they sometimes had to look for
them. And they were sometimesready to agree not very
convenient conditions to getsome people. For example, we
have some situation of threecontracts where workers are
taken for a few weeks, for 10days is the shortest time when
(24:57):
the employee or is taken. Sohere surely the employer was
very determined to get anyone toperform a job. So he paid for
writing a document to get a manfor 10 days.
Do you have any examples in theother direction? Because I
remember you said earlier thatif your employer judged that you
(25:20):
weren't working hard enough thatthey could withhold some of your
pay. Do you have legal caseswhere somebody has had their pay
withheld, and they feel it'sunjust, and they're trying to
challenge this rogue employer?
No, unfortunately, not. Courtdecisions in documents are
relatively rare in comparison todocuments concerning hiring of
(25:41):
labour or employing people. Forexample, we have a few hundred,
surely more than 500, of thesedocuments employing people. And
we have less than 120 documentsconcerning court trials. And
these concern more seriouscases, and so injuries, stealing
(26:04):
and so on. I think that maybesometimes these cases were not
recorded in documents, becausethey were not so important. In
the case, for example, when theman surely broke the contract
and left the household of theemployer, we could expect a
trial here. And maybe there was;we don't know. Anyway, someone
(26:29):
took the decision. And there isno such document. We don't have
such cases recorded,unfortunately.
Yeah, that's a shame.
Yes, it's shame.
Do we know anything aboutdiscipline on the job is your
employer allowed to walk aroundand beat you with a stick to
make your work faster?
Surely, it might vary from whothe worker was, because
(26:51):
sometimes they were slaves. Andin other cases, they were free
people. We have a group of textsof almost 50 documents, where
people will hire out themselves.
So they are those who hire outthe manpower, and they are the
manpower who are hired. And sosurely, they expected from the
employer to be respected,because they were free people
(27:13):
and they decided about thesituations. And we have also, as
I told you, people who were toperform some important jobs,
like the pashishu priest, whosurely was to be treated
properly in the place he was towork. In less than five
documents, we have statements,then the worker would come back
to the owner or to the person incharge of him in good condition.
(27:38):
So shalmu in Akkadian, sohealthy and in good condition.
And so surely, the person whogave the labour to the hirer, to
the employer, expected that theworker would come back to him,
ready for further work.
(28:00):
And we have also situations thatsometimes the worker, in these
cases, they were slaves, weregiven every year for many years,
in one case, nine years, everyyear to those who needed the
labour. And so in these cases,surely, for the owner of such
slave, this slave was mean ofgetting more profits. So the
(28:25):
owner of the slave paidattention to how the slave was
treated and whether he was fitfor further work or not. The
discussion in the science iswhether the employers were
entitled sometimes to sexualservice of women taken into
hire, but it is not possible. Ithink, in some documents, and
(28:48):
also in local actions ofMesopotamia, it is stated that
also slave women must remainsecure in this sense. So I think
that the possibility does notexist. Although the documents do
not state this, the fact thatthe majority of labor were free
man. And also in cases when theslaves were hired. They were
(29:11):
hired in some cases for manyyears to various employers. So
surely those who are in charge,they paid attention that the
conditions should be good, andthat the worker was to be ready
to work further after the timewhen he was freed from the
employer.
We touched earlier on genderedaspects of employment. But what
(29:35):
we haven't really talked aboutyet is age. And I imagine if
you're working for the temple,it's not unusual to find
children of some age workingalongside the adults. Is this
normal also in the contracts,the private employment? Is there
an age at which you'll beexpected to go and help support
your family, say.
As you can expect, the age isnever quoted, is never given. In
(29:59):
more than 50 documents, we havea situation when people are
given out to an employer bytheir parents; by fathers, or
mothers, and brothers as well.
It is supposed that in thesecases, those workers were
relatively young. And so in manycases, we can say, the workers
were relatively young. However,they were surely not children,
(30:21):
because in cases when a workerwas given by his mother, the
document says that he would getthe money for the work. And so
he was surely an adult person.
And the document in this casewas written to secure safe
return of the worker from theemployer. Because surely there
(30:42):
existed a phenomenon, apractice, of enslaving illegally
people, as it was recorded inlater antiquity. Because a man
was a precious property. At thattime, slave costed an amount of
silver, which a worker wouldhave to work for five years. And
so there was surely sometimesphenomenon of enslaving labour,
(31:07):
of enslaving those who werehired, especially for example,
if a merchant took a labourer asa help, as an aid for business
journey, he might have sold himsomewhere. And he could tell the
family well, the man was lost.
And so documents were frequentlyto secure safe return from
employment.
(31:28):
And that's why they were givenalso by fathers and mothers
being adult people. And theywere placed in such documents,
the parents, not because theworkers were young, but because
to provide them safety for theemployment. And as far as the
elder age is concerned, incases, when a worker is employed
(31:50):
for some years, we can see thedecreasing amount of silver he
earns, he gets for his job. Intwo cases, when the employment
lasts for about 10 years, we cansee that he gets less barley, or
less silver. We can infer fromthis that he grew older, and
(32:12):
that's why he got less payment.
This is quite obvious. Butanyway, it is only about 10
years; it's not much. So if theworker started to work being 20
or less, so being 30, it's notaged person.
As we have, however, numerousdocuments from some cities in
(32:36):
Old Babylonian Mesopotamia, wecan try to trace some people,
their activity through decades.
And I think it would be possiblesometimes to determine the age
of a parent or of a man, becausehe might have been active as
worker earlier and later. Youknow that there are some
(32:59):
officials also in Old Babylonianperiod, who were active for 30
years, for example. The samehappens with ordinary people,
because like in Ur III time atthe late third millennium BC,
also in Old Babylonian period,we have a situation that
sometimes also the ordinarypeople are recorded in various
(33:20):
documents for 30 or 40 years.
But it's really a great job tobe performed, which can be also
very profitable, because thisinformation would be very
interesting. But no one has doneit until today.
Yeah, yeah. Another one for thefuture.
Yes, is promising for thefuture, to work on these
(33:42):
documents and research.
Yeah. So am I right in thinkingyou will have a book coming out
on this topic?
Yes, actually, there are quite afew books on this topic. I'm
preparing the edition ofdocuments from the British
Museum, unpublished documents.
And, of course, with a study ofdocuments published until today,
because the latest book onlaboir in Old Babylonian period
(34:05):
is dated to before the SecondWorld War. So by Lautner,
Altbabylonische Personenmiete[und Erntearbeitervertraege],
and so I think it's going to bea large study. And it is going
to reveal many aspects in thepublished and unpublished
documents, which will be surelyof interest to both for those
who make research on a societyand economy. And in many cases,
(34:27):
it is going to add the importantnew details, observations,
because this stuff was notstudied simply.
When can we expect your book tocome out?
It should be at the end of thisyear, or the beginning of next
year, with copies of course ofdocuments, but the written part
(34:49):
of the book is ready now. I'mlooking for people, for the
activity of those involved inthe documents through letters
and the other documents. It'sendless work, but it's also very
exciting when you will find aman from the documents in other
documents. Sometimes, you'llfind two or three people from
(35:09):
one document in one contract, ina letter or elsewhere. So it's a
temptation to do more and moreto excavate more and more the
content of documents. You knowthis, but sometimes you also
have to stop yourself to say,no, it's enough. Let us leave
something for future generation,for future scholars, and this
(35:31):
will be done so.
I'm very much looking forward tothat. Thank you very much for
sharing your insights.
You're very nice. I'm reallyvery grateful.
I’d also like to thank ourpatrons: Enrique Jiménez, Jana
Matuszak, Nancy Highcock, Jay C,Rune Rattenborg, Woodthrush,
Elisa Rossberger, Mark Weeden,Jordi Mon Companys, Thomas
(35:56):
Bolin, Joan Porter MacIver, JohnMacGinnis, Andrew George, Yelena
Rakic, Zach Rubin, SabinaFranke, Shai Gordin, Aaron
Macks, Maarja Seire, JaafarJotheri, Morgan Hite, Chikako
Watanabe, Mark McElwaine,Jonathan Blanchard Smith,
(36:20):
Kliment Ohr, ChristinaTsouparopoulou, TT, Melanie
Gross, Claire Weir, MarcVeldman, Bruno Biermann, Faimon
Roberts, Jason Moser, PavlaRosenstein, Müge
Durusu-Tanrıöver, Tate Paulette,Willis Monroe, Toby Wickenden,
(36:42):
Emmert Clevenstine, BarbaraPorter, Cheryl Morgan, Kevin Roy
Jackson, Susannah Paulus, EricWhitacre, Jakob Flygare, Jon
Ganuza, as well as those whoprefer to remain anonymous.
I really appreciate yoursupport. It makes a big
(37:03):
difference. Every penny receivedhas contributed towards
translations. Thanks of courseto the lovely people who have
worked on the translations on avoluntary basis or for well
below the market rate. ForArabic, thanks in particular to
Zainab Mizyidawi, as well asLina Meerchyad and May Al-Aseel.
(37:24):
For Turkish, thank you to PinarDurgun and Nesrin Akan. TEW is
still young, but I want to reacha sustainable level, where
translators are given propercompensation for their hard
work.
And thank you for listening toThin End of the Wedge. If you
enjoy what we do, and you wouldlike to help make these podcasts
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you’ll join us next time.
Hello, and welcome to Thin Endof the Wedge. The podcast where
experts from around the worldshare new and interesting
stories about life in theancient Middle East. My name is
Jon. Each episode I talk tofriends and colleagues and get
them to explain their work in away we can all understand.
Finding work is about as normalan activity as there is.
(00:37):
Cuneiform tablets reveal detailsof what it was like to do this
4000 years ago. What kinds ofwork were available? Who might
get these jobs? And would youreally want them?
Our guest is a specialist inBabylonia during the time of
Hammurabi. He has beenresearching labour in Babylonia
(00:57):
for many years now, making himthe ideal person to help us
understand the ancient jobmarket. So get yourself a cup of
tea, make yourself comfortable,and let's meet today's guest.
(01:19):
Hello, and welcome to Thin Endof the Wedge. Thank you for
joining us.
Morning. Thank you.
Could you tell us please (01:24):
who are you, and what do you do?
My name is Witold Tyborowski. Ilive in Poznan, Poland, and I'm
a professor at Adam MickiewiczUniversity in Poznan. I'm a
historian. My speciality isancient Mesopotamia. And more
precisely, the first half of thesecond millennium BC Hammurabi:
and his times.
(01:45):
Okay, and we're talking aboutHammurabi this morning. In
particular, we're talking abouta topic of timeless interest:
how to get a job. So could youset the scene maybe, please, and
explain how do we know anythingabout how you get a job during
the time of Hammurabi?
So economy is always veryimportant for society and for
single people. And so,fortunately, we have a huge
(02:09):
number of documents, cuneiformdocuments, from third, second,
and first millennia BCE. Yearsago, I started to study them.
And what I found (02:18):
some economic issues were more important for
people than the others. Andnamely, it was very surprising
for me, getting job; hiring oflabour, getting employed, the
time conditions, the purpose ofhiring. This is really
fascinating, as I didn't supposethat we might get so many
(02:40):
details from before 4000 yearsago, about the conditions and
time and leisure, and so on, andso on about very ordinary things
of everyday life of people ofthat time.
Yeah, yeah. This is brilliant.
So I guess the first questionhas to be, you know, who are the
people looking for a job?
(03:00):
These were usually quite poorpeople who did not own their own
possessions. And so they didn'thave their farms, or their
workshops. But they had time, ofcourse, and they wanted to
survive simply so they neededmeans for life. And so they were
looking for job. And they werelooking in places and palace and
(03:22):
rich people households, to getjob and so to live ... simply to
live. Usually, they were a man.
However, we have quite a numberof women who are also employed
or who are given to work to suchplaces, which is also very
interesting, because I did notexpect women looking for job or
being hired or employed in thesevery times.
(03:48):
Do we have any sense of thenumbers of people? Is this a
relatively small group? Or isthis a very common thing?
Surprisingly, it was quite acommon thing, because especially
in large farms, they neededlabour, human labour, during
harvests and sowing time. So inthe spring, and in the autumn,
(04:11):
and then they really needed alarge number of workers. There
were two ways of employingpeople; namely in groups for
hire for harvest. And this wasdone by commission. And so by
some people brought groups ofpeople. And there were many
hires of single people. And thesingle people were hired, or
(04:33):
were employed to do peculiarjobs, which are quite often
named in the contracts. Andthey're rarely hired for or
employed to do harvest labour,harvest work, because harvest
work was done by groups. And soif anyone hired single people
for harvest, it meant that thiswas a very tough period when any
(04:55):
hands do work were important.
So you mentioned there about theimportance of harvest time for
employment. Is that the kind ofjob that the palace can offer,
then, or are there other jobsavailable?
Most often it was harvest. Alsocattle breeding was, this was
the second after harvest jobthat the palace or other
(05:15):
institutional household couldoffer. And so harvesters ...
also it was a very popular job,because no peculiar skills were
needed during harvest. Justbasic works with hands. And if
anyone was hired or employed ina workshop, some skills were
needed. And so that's ratherrarer. And sometimes we find
(05:39):
very peculiar jobs had to beperformed. In one contract, a
priestly office is offered to anemployee. It was a pashihu
priest who was employed for onemonth, to perform a job in the
temple. It was very surprising,because you might think we might
expect that any priestly workshould have been done by a
(06:02):
specialist who was somehowintroduced in this and was
skilled and so on. And here youhave an ordinary man to perform
a priestly job. So there is avariety of things that the
employees could do.
I wonder if we could probe in alittle bit more depth about who
the people are? So I waswondering, are these citizens;
(06:24):
maybe they've fallen on hardtimes or they belong to a strata
of society where they justregularly do this kind of work?
Or is it semi-nomadic or nomadicpeople who are coming in, and
you utilise the extra labourwhen it's available? I mean,
what's the role of slaves orprisoners of war?
As I have said that at thebeginning, these were definitely
(06:45):
some poor people. So you mighthave expected that they were
some nomads, and so peoplecoming from the steppe or from
abroad, from areas where theemployment could not have been
provided. But the names, youcannot judge it by their names,
and the names are givenregularly. Because it appears to
(07:06):
be that Mesopotamia was reallydeeply Akkadianised. So Akkadian
names were also quite oftenamong nomads. So when you look
at their names, practically,they're never characterised by
any tribal or national identity.
So they're just people ofcertain names, and the names are
almost always typical Akkadiannames.
(07:31):
But what is quite significant,patronymics quite often are not
rarely are given. So they werenot characterised, but any roots
in families or tribes. If theydidn't want to characterise
them, it seems that they werenot important members in this.
(07:52):
Very rarely seal impressions ofthe employees can be found in
the documents. So in thesecases, you suppose that these
were not poor people, notinsignificant people, but they
were someone if they possesstheir own or near family seals.
So this happened, but basically,they were people who just were
(08:14):
ordinary people who lived inthis society, and they just were
looking means for living.
Alright. So, can you tell us alittle bit then about what it
was like to perform these jobs?
What are the conditions?
So, the documents, thecontracts, which we have, they
paid little attention to this.
However, they are quitenumerous. So we can infer some
(08:35):
details, information from themanyway. And so, in a third of
all the documents, the purposeof hire or employment is given.
But such conditions as aredetermined as for example, that
the worker, the employee, hasthe right of one day free every
(08:56):
10 days. So in a month, eachworker is entitled to be free
for three days. And so it wasrelatively heavy work.
When the work is named, it isusually a heavy one, because,
for example, grinding grain orwork in a palace household,
(09:18):
named as tupshikkum, forexample; it can be translated as
"bringing a basket with earth".
It is clear that when anyoneneeded a labourer, and was ready
to pay for him some money, somesalary, so it was definitely an
important work and so ratherheavy work. And if we look at
the salaries, they surelyreflect that worker, the
(09:43):
employee was to work heavily.
Also those who employed theworkers, they were not very rich
people and so they took them inneed. It is clear that next to
the hired labour, employedlabour, also the members of the
family were active in householdsin farms. So the workers were
(10:07):
taken in when they were reallynecessary. And so no one could
take a worker, just for someindistinct works.
What else can we say? Some otherconditions were also determined.
For example, that the employerwas to provide food and drink.
And it is sometimes determinedhow large should be the drink,
(10:30):
and food. And the quota whichthe employee was to receive, we
can see that he was to eat goodfood and drink a lot of usually
beer. So to be able to perform aheavy work. This was an economic
process, this was a necessity,which was held by the employer.
(10:51):
So the employer was ratherexpecting that the workers would
do a good job, heavy work.
Finally, the women who wereemployed, they constitute only
about 15% of all the staff whichwas employed. So if they were so
few, we can also say that theywere simply not able to work
(11:12):
harder. And so that's why theemployers preferred men, because
they could provide better work.
Are they doing the same job? Sois it a case of, well, I need
somebody to help with theharvest, I'd rather have a man?
Or with a woman be doingweaving? Is there a difference
in the type of work offered?
(11:33):
Yes, we can say that there was adifference. What is interesting,
when you have women beingemployed, they are usually
employed by women. And they areemployed for a shorter time,
usually one month. And so thereis a suggestion, it's my guess,
that these women who wereemployed, they performed some
(11:56):
work at their mistresses'shouseholds. And when they are
priestesses, and we have tensuch examples, there, the men
couldn't simply enter someplaces or do some works. And so
they were rather personalservice, the women, than the
regular work typical also formen. And so when the employer
(12:20):
wanted anyone who could providegood labour, then he preferred
men, because he was to be usedfor such work, which women
couldn't provide. In one caseonly, we have a woman employed
who was to grind grain duringone year. So this is a very
(12:44):
special situation. The womanmust have been a very strong
person. And so the employerdecided to take her, in spite of
the fact that she was a woman.
And so physically, seemingly notvery fit for such work. But
anyway, he took her because thiswas a situation when she could.
When people are performing thesetasks, are they working
(13:06):
alongside the employer? Is itextra help? Or are they working
instead of that person doing thejob?
I think that the regularsituation was that the employed
workers, they worked with thefamily members of the employer.
This is very clear, because whenwe have the employers,
fortunately, we have a hugenumber of other documents. In
(13:28):
many cases, we can find theemployers as owners of some
households. So if a largehouseholder employs only one
man, so we can expect that heworked next to some other
people. We also have situationwith when one employer employs
men in the first month of theyear, second, and fifth. And so
(13:50):
he needed more and more, and hetook men whenever it was
necessary to avoid leisure time,a period when the worker
wouldn't do anything. And wehave a number of documents, when
for example, it is stipulatedthat if a worker will be lazy,
and will not perform the job hewas hired for, then he would not
(14:13):
get any salary, even he wouldforfeit, he would lose any
rights to get any money. And soit was a situation, a system in
which the employer was verycareful to use properly the
employed person.
And we also know sometimes thenames of sons of the employer.
(14:34):
And we can guess at that timethey were relatively young, the
sons, so they had to work nextto the employed person. I think
that only when we have the caseof the harvesters, who are
employed in groups, sometimes inlarge groups. We have one
situation when a commissionergets huge money to bring workers
(14:58):
for a princess, Iltani. And themoney he gets would be enough to
get about 120 workers. And so insuch cases, the members of the
family of the employer were notsignificant, because they were
only few. And so these employerscould allow employing large
numbers, large enough to makefree and members of his own
(15:21):
family.
We've touched a couple of timeson salary, basically, what do
you get in exchange for work.
And you started talking aboutthe provision of food and drink.
I wonder, could you say a littlebit more about that, please?
Because if you're working outin, you know, collecting the
harvest, or something like that,hard manual work, you're going
to be burning a lot of calories.
(15:41):
Do we know quite what they'regetting to fuel that?
Yes, when the food and drink isdetailed, when it's spoken of,
in the document, it's a goodamount of both to let the worker
do a good job. And sometimes,however, it says that the worker
would feed himself or that hewould dress himself, because
(16:04):
dress ,clothing, is alsomentioned, sometimes. You may
wonder, and it is not clear,whether in these cases, the
worker when he wants to feedhimself was to go outside of the
household of the employer and gosomewhere to eat or it was just
alluding the salary. So, itwould be extracted from the
(16:28):
salary of the worker, when hewas to feed himself? But anyway,
was rather provided the food bythe employer, because it would
be not economic, if the workerwas to leave the household of
the employer and go somewherefor food. These details,
basically, I think, areconnected with salary. So
(16:50):
whether it was to be larger,when the worker was to feed
himself or it would be smaller,fewer when the worker was to be
fed by the employer.
I think that as far as thesalary is concerned, however, it
varies very much, definitelydepending from the work which
was to be performed. A regularpayment for a month, for one
(17:14):
month, when a worker is takenfor one month, is one shekel
silver, which was equal to onegur barley, so 300 liters.
However, when the worker wastaken for longer, for the whole
year, the salary varied from twoshekels or two gur silver, till
(17:36):
six gur, six silver. It may besurprising that we must
recognise this amount from twoto six shekels or more silver as
regular, as average, because theaverage you would expect three
or four, four or five, but wehave two to six. Sometimes,
(17:56):
however, the payments are quitehigh, even more than 10 shekels
of silver, more than 10 gur ofbarley. Definitely the worker
was to perform a more importantwork or a harder work.
And for example, we havesituation when such work is
stated. So it's work at abrewer's workshops, or grinding
(18:22):
grain when the work was hardest,and the salary was highest. But
in other cases, for example,when we have a very small
salary. In five cases, we have asalary so small that only in
these cases we can supposechildren being employed.
(18:46):
Children, it was not reasonablefrom economic point of view, to
take for work, because theycouldn't do any serious,
effective work. But anyway,sometimes they were taken, and
they were paid very littlemoney.
What is also quite significant,we cannot see that the workers
(19:06):
worked for debt. You certainlyknow that working for debt is
mentioned in the laws ofHammurabi. And it was supposed
quite often by the scholars thatdebts were worked in the
household of the man who gavethem money, but we cannot
observe it in the contracts.
Quite possibly, because in suchcases, the contracts were not
(19:29):
drafted. Contracts, documentswere written in peculiar
situations, basically, tocommemorate the transfer of a
man from one man to another.
Coming back to the salary, somethings remain unclear. So the
salary varies very much.
Basically, there were two means
of payment (19:51):
silver and grain, and so barley. With this variety
of the salary, we can justwonder what was the reason, but
there are many things still tobe answered.
You also mentioned that peoplewill be supplied with beer. And
there is quite a big discussion,isn't there, about what the beer
is.
(20:11):
I think it was just a kind ofalcoholic drink, not to be
rotten in the heat of theMesopotamian climate. We cannot
be sure, of course.
Unfortunately, documents useonly Sumerian ideogram in this
situation, and always the same.
The documents which are quitenumerous, because the contracts
(20:35):
alone amount to about 300documents, plus the huge number
of harvest labour contracts. Butanyway, they're very regular in
the phraseology they use. And soit's just a matter of
speculation. Surely, it wasn'tanything delicious, anything
special. It was just a basicdrink with alcohol to provide a
(20:59):
healthy refrigerator to workers?
Hmm, well, the alcohol isanother interesting aspect,
isn't it. The beer would be agood source of calories, which
you'd need. But then if you'reout doing hard work, especially
in the heat, then alcohol isn'ta great thing to have for
hydration purposes. And that'sthe kind of thing that might
(21:20):
make you underperform andtherefore not get paid. And if
you're, you know, using sharptools, and you don't want to be
too drunk, the text won'texplicitly say how strong the
beer was. But as you reconstructthe text, do you have a picture
in your mind of how alcoholicthat beer is?
I think that regular drink namedbeer with alcohol, will have
(21:40):
very small amount of alcohol init. Basically, not to let the
people get drunk. Only in onedocument, when a man is taken to
work at the brewers workshop,and so the document states, that
worker would not drink too much.
So it would mean that in thiscase, he had contact with the
(22:01):
regular beer with good amount ofalcohol. And so he could have
got addicted, and he could havewanted to drink more. But it was
a peculiar situation when he hadaccess to regular beer with
larger amounts of alcohol. Butin other cases, I think that
first the employer who providedthe drink, he surely tried to
(22:24):
make it cheap, and so of lowquality. Just to let the workers
drink, not to make them drunk,because then they wouldn't work
effectively. And so I think itwasn't anything to be jealous
about.
(22:45):
I can imagine. Do you have asense of the balance of power in
these relationships? Is it thatpeople are desperate for work,
so they'll take anythingwhenever it comes up? Or is it
really that the employers aredesperate for the manpower, and
so they'll pay what it takes toget the people when they need
them?
(23:05):
Surprisingly, in the light ofthe contract documents, you can
see that the employers were moredetermined to get labour than
the workers themselves. And sofor example, we have documents
when the contract is broken bythe workers, by the employees.
In two pairs of documents, wehave a situation when the worker
(23:26):
broke the documents, and so gaveup and went away from the
household of the employer. Andso he lost the right to get any
salary. And in one case, after afew months, the same employer
takes the same man and pays himeven more than before. So after
three months, exactly. So hereclearly, the employer was
(23:49):
determined to get this man. Andhe paid more to encourage him to
harder work.
And in another situation, afather gave his son to an
employer, he was a tradesman, amerchant. Five days later, the
same father gives out the sameson to another employer, where
(24:12):
the son would not have to goabroad to perform any dangerous
job. You surely know the opinionthat the Mesopotamian economy
lacked manpower, lacked labour.
And so I would say that OldBabylonian documents reflect
this fact, this phenomenon, thatthe people who were able and
wanted to work, they could findit quite easily. Whereas those
(24:36):
who needed labour and manpower,they sometimes had to look for
them. And they were sometimesready to agree not very
convenient conditions to getsome people. For example, we
have some situation of threecontracts where workers are
taken for a few weeks, for 10days is the shortest time when
(24:57):
the employee or is taken. Sohere surely the employer was
very determined to get anyone toperform a job. So he paid for
writing a document to get a manfor 10 days.
Do you have any examples in theother direction? Because I
remember you said earlier thatif your employer judged that you
(25:20):
weren't working hard enough thatthey could withhold some of your
pay. Do you have legal caseswhere somebody has had their pay
withheld, and they feel it'sunjust, and they're trying to
challenge this rogue employer?
No, unfortunately, not. Courtdecisions in documents are
relatively rare in comparison todocuments concerning hiring of
(25:41):
labour or employing people. Forexample, we have a few hundred,
surely more than 500, of thesedocuments employing people. And
we have less than 120 documentsconcerning court trials. And
these concern more seriouscases, and so injuries, stealing
(26:04):
and so on. I think that maybesometimes these cases were not
recorded in documents, becausethey were not so important. In
the case, for example, when theman surely broke the contract
and left the household of theemployer, we could expect a
trial here. And maybe there was;we don't know. Anyway, someone
(26:29):
took the decision. And there isno such document. We don't have
such cases recorded,unfortunately.
Yeah, that's a shame.
Yes, it's shame.
Do we know anything aboutdiscipline on the job is your
employer allowed to walk aroundand beat you with a stick to
make your work faster?
Surely, it might vary from whothe worker was, because
(26:51):
sometimes they were slaves. Andin other cases, they were free
people. We have a group of textsof almost 50 documents, where
people will hire out themselves.
So they are those who hire outthe manpower, and they are the
manpower who are hired. And sosurely, they expected from the
employer to be respected,because they were free people
(27:13):
and they decided about thesituations. And we have also, as
I told you, people who were toperform some important jobs,
like the pashishu priest, whosurely was to be treated
properly in the place he was towork. In less than five
documents, we have statements,then the worker would come back
to the owner or to the person incharge of him in good condition.
(27:38):
So shalmu in Akkadian, sohealthy and in good condition.
And so surely, the person whogave the labour to the hirer, to
the employer, expected that theworker would come back to him,
ready for further work.
(28:00):
And we have also situations thatsometimes the worker, in these
cases, they were slaves, weregiven every year for many years,
in one case, nine years, everyyear to those who needed the
labour. And so in these cases,surely, for the owner of such
slave, this slave was mean ofgetting more profits. So the
(28:25):
owner of the slave paidattention to how the slave was
treated and whether he was fitfor further work or not. The
discussion in the science iswhether the employers were
entitled sometimes to sexualservice of women taken into
hire, but it is not possible. Ithink, in some documents, and
(28:48):
also in local actions ofMesopotamia, it is stated that
also slave women must remainsecure in this sense. So I think
that the possibility does notexist. Although the documents do
not state this, the fact thatthe majority of labor were free
man. And also in cases when theslaves were hired. They were
(29:11):
hired in some cases for manyyears to various employers. So
surely those who are in charge,they paid attention that the
conditions should be good, andthat the worker was to be ready
to work further after the timewhen he was freed from the
employer.
We touched earlier on genderedaspects of employment. But what
(29:35):
we haven't really talked aboutyet is age. And I imagine if
you're working for the temple,it's not unusual to find
children of some age workingalongside the adults. Is this
normal also in the contracts,the private employment? Is there
an age at which you'll beexpected to go and help support
your family, say.
As you can expect, the age isnever quoted, is never given. In
(29:59):
more than 50 documents, we havea situation when people are
given out to an employer bytheir parents; by fathers, or
mothers, and brothers as well.
It is supposed that in thesecases, those workers were
relatively young. And so in manycases, we can say, the workers
were relatively young. However,they were surely not children,
(30:21):
because in cases when a workerwas given by his mother, the
document says that he would getthe money for the work. And so
he was surely an adult person.
And the document in this casewas written to secure safe
return of the worker from theemployer. Because surely there
(30:42):
existed a phenomenon, apractice, of enslaving illegally
people, as it was recorded inlater antiquity. Because a man
was a precious property. At thattime, slave costed an amount of
silver, which a worker wouldhave to work for five years. And
so there was surely sometimesphenomenon of enslaving labour,
(31:07):
of enslaving those who werehired, especially for example,
if a merchant took a labourer asa help, as an aid for business
journey, he might have sold himsomewhere. And he could tell the
family well, the man was lost.
And so documents were frequentlyto secure safe return from
employment.
(31:28):
And that's why they were givenalso by fathers and mothers
being adult people. And theywere placed in such documents,
the parents, not because theworkers were young, but because
to provide them safety for theemployment. And as far as the
elder age is concerned, incases, when a worker is employed
(31:50):
for some years, we can see thedecreasing amount of silver he
earns, he gets for his job. Intwo cases, when the employment
lasts for about 10 years, we cansee that he gets less barley, or
less silver. We can infer fromthis that he grew older, and
(32:12):
that's why he got less payment.
This is quite obvious. Butanyway, it is only about 10
years; it's not much. So if theworker started to work being 20
or less, so being 30, it's notaged person.
As we have, however, numerousdocuments from some cities in
(32:36):
Old Babylonian Mesopotamia, wecan try to trace some people,
their activity through decades.
And I think it would be possiblesometimes to determine the age
of a parent or of a man, becausehe might have been active as
worker earlier and later. Youknow that there are some
(32:59):
officials also in Old Babylonianperiod, who were active for 30
years, for example. The samehappens with ordinary people,
because like in Ur III time atthe late third millennium BC,
also in Old Babylonian period,we have a situation that
sometimes also the ordinarypeople are recorded in various
(33:20):
documents for 30 or 40 years.
But it's really a great job tobe performed, which can be also
very profitable, because thisinformation would be very
interesting. But no one has doneit until today.
Yeah, yeah. Another one for thefuture.
Yes, is promising for thefuture, to work on these
(33:42):
documents and research.
Yeah. So am I right in thinkingyou will have a book coming out
on this topic?
Yes, actually, there are quite afew books on this topic. I'm
preparing the edition ofdocuments from the British
Museum, unpublished documents.
And, of course, with a study ofdocuments published until today,
because the latest book onlaboir in Old Babylonian period
(34:05):
is dated to before the SecondWorld War. So by Lautner,
Altbabylonische Personenmiete[und Erntearbeitervertraege],
and so I think it's going to bea large study. And it is going
to reveal many aspects in thepublished and unpublished
documents, which will be surelyof interest to both for those
who make research on a societyand economy. And in many cases,
(34:27):
it is going to add the importantnew details, observations,
because this stuff was notstudied simply.
When can we expect your book tocome out?
It should be at the end of thisyear, or the beginning of next
year, with copies of course ofdocuments, but the written part
(34:49):
of the book is ready now. I'mlooking for people, for the
activity of those involved inthe documents through letters
and the other documents. It'sendless work, but it's also very
exciting when you will find aman from the documents in other
documents. Sometimes, you'llfind two or three people from
(35:09):
one document in one contract, ina letter or elsewhere. So it's a
temptation to do more and moreto excavate more and more the
content of documents. You knowthis, but sometimes you also
have to stop yourself to say,no, it's enough. Let us leave
something for future generation,for future scholars, and this
(35:31):
will be done so.
I'm very much looking forward tothat. Thank you very much for
sharing your insights.
You're very nice. I'm reallyvery grateful.
I’d also like to thank ourpatrons: Enrique Jiménez, Jana
Matuszak, Nancy Highcock, Jay C,Rune Rattenborg, Woodthrush,
Elisa Rossberger, Mark Weeden,Jordi Mon Companys, Thomas
(35:56):
Bolin, Joan Porter MacIver, JohnMacGinnis, Andrew George, Yelena
Rakic, Zach Rubin, SabinaFranke, Shai Gordin, Aaron
Macks, Maarja Seire, JaafarJotheri, Morgan Hite, Chikako
Watanabe, Mark McElwaine,Jonathan Blanchard Smith,
(36:20):
Kliment Ohr, ChristinaTsouparopoulou, TT, Melanie
Gross, Claire Weir, MarcVeldman, Bruno Biermann, Faimon
Roberts, Jason Moser, PavlaRosenstein, Müge
Durusu-Tanrıöver, Tate Paulette,Willis Monroe, Toby Wickenden,
(36:42):
Emmert Clevenstine, BarbaraPorter, Cheryl Morgan, Kevin Roy
Jackson, Susannah Paulus, EricWhitacre, Jakob Flygare, Jon
Ganuza, as well as those whoprefer to remain anonymous.
I really appreciate yoursupport. It makes a big
(37:03):
difference. Every penny receivedhas contributed towards
translations. Thanks of courseto the lovely people who have
worked on the translations on avoluntary basis or for well
below the market rate. ForArabic, thanks in particular to
Zainab Mizyidawi, as well asLina Meerchyad and May Al-Aseel.
(37:24):
For Turkish, thank you to PinarDurgun and Nesrin Akan. TEW is
still young, but I want to reacha sustainable level, where
translators are given propercompensation for their hard
work.
And thank you for listening toThin End of the Wedge. If you
enjoy what we do, and you wouldlike to help make these podcasts
(37:45):
available in Middle Easternlanguages, please consider
joining our Patreon family. Youcan find us at
patreon.com/wedgepod. You canalso support us in other ways:
simply subscribe to the podcast;leave us a five star review on
Apple Music or your favouritepodcatcher; recommend us to your
fri (38:06):
@wedge_pod. If you want the latest podcast news, you can
sign up for our newsletter. Youcan find all the links in the
show notes and on our website atwedgepod.org. Thanks, and I hope
you’ll join us next time.
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