January 24, 2025 • 33 mins
Zoltán and Erika introduce us to their exhibition about gods and demons. This exhibition, and the extensive catalogue that accompanies it, are major landmarks in Hungarian assyriology. What is it about, how did it become a reality, and what impact will it have?
2:40 the exhibition
8:11 key objects
10:47 why this topic, and why now?
12:56 reaction
15:15 preparing an exhibition
21:19 about the displays
23:19 significance for Hungary
24:52 the museum's own collection
27:45 favourite object
https://www.mfab.hu/exhibitions/kingdom-of-gods-and-demons-mesopotamia-1000-500-bce/
Music by Ruba Hillawi
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jon Taylor (00:13):
Hello, and welcome to the Thin End of the Wedge,
the podcast where experts fromaround the world share new and
interesting stories about lifein the ancient Middle East. My
name is Jon. Each episode, Italk to friends and colleagues
and get them to explain theirwork in a way we can all
understand.
Special exhibitions provideimportant opportunities for
(00:34):
Assyriology to raise awarenessand generate interest. There are
impressive permanent displays inthe big international museums,
and often also interestingdisplays in museums with smaller
collections. But exhibitionswork differently. They come with
a brief but intense injection offunds, an opportunity to display
(00:57):
in a custom environment, testnew techniques, and attract
press and public attention.
Right now there is a majorexhibition in Budapest dedicated
to the gods and demons ofMesopotamia. It brings together
loans of spectacular objectsfrom across Europe. This is the
first large-scale exhibition onMesopotamia in Hungary.
(01:19):
Alongside it comes a cataloguewith essays from international
scholars in Hungarian; the firstassyriological publication in
Hungarian in 20 years.
Our guests are the co-curatorsof this exhibition. They explain
how the exhibition came toabout, what it took it make it
happen, what its impact hasbeen, and what its legacy will
(01:41):
be.
Hello and welcome to Thin End ofthe Wedge. Thank you for joining
us.
Zoltan Niederreiter (01:54):
Hi Jon, thank you for this kind
invitation.
Erika Roboz (01:58):
And also we welcome everybody who is listening to us
now.
Jon Taylor (02:03):
Could you tell us please
you do?
Zoltan Niederreiter (02:07):
I'm Zoltán Niederreiter, Professor of the
University of Budapest. I teachassyriology and archaeology. And
I'm the curator of the temporaryexhibition organised in
Budapest.
Erika Roboz (02:22):
Hello. My name is Erika Roboz. And I am a staff
member of the Museum of FineArts, Budapest. I am the co-
curator of the currentexhibition, what is the topic is
today. and I am a historian.
Jon Taylor (02:40):
Okay, can you start us off then with the basics?
What is the exhibition called,and what is it about?
Zoltan Niederreiter (02:47):
The exhibition, "Mesopotamia,
kingdom of gods and demons", isthe result of a joint effort by
the Museum of Fine Arts Budapestand the momentum research
project of the Hungarian Academyof Sciences. The four months
temporary exhibition focuses onancient Mesopotamia, primarily
(03:08):
the Neo-Assyrian andNeo-Babylonian periods. Gods,
demons and hybrid creatures arethe protagonists of the
exhibition. They are presentedthrough written, pictorial, and
material sources. We aim todisplay the Mesopotamian
heritage focusing on the divineworld. A well-developed concept
(03:33):
was important, in which wewanted to evoke the divine
figures in nine sections. Jon,please let me know whether I can
present briefly the ninesections now.
Jon Taylor (03:47):
Yes, please do. What are the sections, please?
Zoltan Niederreiter (03:50):
Okay. The first concentrates on the
archaeological discovery ofBabylon, primarily the Ishtar
Gate. The second looks at thevarious activities, gods and
ceremonies, campaigns, hunts ofthe kings chosen by the gods to
provide for them and serve them.
The third section presents thestones used as raw materials,
(04:16):
their mythical origins, and thecylinder seals made for them.
The seal images depict the wildanimals and hybrid creatures and
the divine and supernaturalfigures. Which led us to our
next topic, the divine world.
(04:37):
This includes the variousMesopotamian myths beginning
with the creation of the world,birth of the gods, and their
struggles. Here we also presentthe astral gods, Sin, Shamash,
and Ishtar, and the zodiac.
Then we present the next layerof the sky, where Adad the
(05:00):
weather god appears. Then onthis journey, we go further down
and arrive in our world, wherewe have summoned a house and its
inhabitants. Here we focus onthe demonic world, primarily on
the two most important demons,Pazuzu and Lamashtu. We try to
(05:23):
present the impact the demonshave on humans when they appear
in the different spheres. Wepresent the role of the gods and
demons in the individual life ofthe people of ancient
Mesopotamia from birth to death,focusing on everyday activities
(05:43):
and the home.
Next section evokes the Assyrianpalaces through palace reliefs
depicting divine beings. Ourconcept was that at the end of
the exhibition, visitors couldreturn to Babylon, where they
started from. But here, at theend, they would not see the
(06:06):
discovery of Babylon, but itsheyday, that is the capital of
the neo-Babylonian empire.
Through the amulets, rituals,prayers, hymns, we introduce
Marduk, the city's chief god,his temple, and Mushhushshu, the
snake-dragon, who was assignedto his service.
(06:29):
This foreshadows the last topic,which examines the Tower of
Babel, the famous ziggurat, thestepped temple tower, described
by the Bible. Its imagery liveson as topos in the paintings and
graphic art of the late 16thcentury Low Countries and 20th
(06:50):
century Hungary. We hope thatthe exhibition brings the
heritage of ancient Mesopotamiacloser to the Hungarian public
and to international visitors.
At the same time, we aim toenrich the research in
assyriology and on the art andarchaeology of ancient
Mesopotamia by presenting theworld of gods and demons,
(07:12):
focusing primarily onNeo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian
sources.
Erika Roboz (07:19):
An extra closing section is attached to the
exhibition, which presents twoiconic Mesopotamian motifs
appearing in the today's visualand popular culture, especially
focusing to the world of cinema.
The one is the figure of thedemon Pazuzu, and another is the
famous city of Babylon, which wepresent via movie short cuts.
(07:44):
For example, we show scenesprojecting on the walls of this
room from the American horrormovie entitled "The Exorcist",
from 1973 directed by WilliamFriedkin, and from the German
expressionist silent Sci-Fientitled "Metropolis", directed
by Fritz Lang from 1927.
Jon Taylor (08:11):
Okay, thank you. So you explained a little bit there
about the sections and thetopics you're covering in
each.Now obviously, thosestories have to be told through
objects. And usually there's akey object in each of the
sections. Could you maybe saysomething about some of the most
important objects you have inthe exhibition?
Erika Roboz (08:30):
The nine sections features one highlight object,
or a group of objects, which arethe key objects. These have been
selected for their higherartistic and/or aesthetic value,
but often for their size torepresent the theme of the
section that attracts the eye.
So in the first section, thereis a glazed brick relief panel
(08:53):
of a lion from the processionalway of Babylon. In the second
section, there is a kudurru ofBel-ahhe-eriba, the governor of
Babylon, is the highlightobject. In the third section,
there is an Achaemenid glazedbrick relief panel depicting two
(09:15):
human-faced winged sphinxes fromSusa. In the fourth section,
there is a basalt stela fromArslantash.
Fifth section, there are threeunbaked clay figurines of two
bull-men and a lion-demon fromDur-sharrukin. In the sixth
(09:39):
section, there is the famous"Heil-plaque", a Lamashtu emulet
from the Louvre collection. Inthe seventh section, a palace
relief depicting a bird-headedApkallu before a stylised tree
from Kalhu from the collectionof the Staatliche
Kunstsammlungen Dresden, withits weight of more than one
(09:59):
tons, and with its size ofalmost two metres high.
In the eighth section, there isa glazed brick relief panel of a
Mushhushshu from the Ishtar Gateof Babylon. And in the ninth
section, dealing with the motifof the Tower of Babel, there is
(10:21):
an oil painting from an unknownFlemish painter of the 16th
century depicting the Tower ofBabel motif from the old masters
collection of our museum. Theother artworks in this room also
are from fine art collectionsrepresenting the artistic
(10:42):
appearances of this motif in theEuropean and Hungarian art.
Jon Taylor (10:48):
Mm-hmm. Exhibitions tend to be quite a lot of work.
Obviously, there's the limitednumber of exhibitions that can
be put on, so why thisparticular subject and why now?
Zoltan Niederreiter (10:59):
The Museum of Fine Arts, Budapest regularly
hosts temporary exhibitions,mostly of painting. The Director
General of the museum hassupported the plan for this
ancient Mesopotamian exhibitionfrom the very beginning. The
presentation of the ancientMesopotamian heritage in an
(11:20):
exhibition was timely. AncientMesopotamian culture and
civilisation has been muchtalked about in recent years.
I'm thinking here of thedestruction of the Mesopotamian
heritage in Iraq. Not only thearchaeologists and
assyriologists, but also thegeneral public are aware of
(11:43):
this. Unfortunately, this hasmeant the looting of the Iraq
Museum in 2003 and thedestruction of the
archaeological sites andmonuments around Mosul in 2014.
In addition, a number of lootingoperations have taken place in
Iraq over the years, resultingin objects being destroyed
(12:08):
without documentation or beingtrafficked illegally.
Now, visitors to the exhibitioncan discover another side of
this civilisation. And there isanother really important and
actual situation, in the case ofus. Since, in the framework of
(12:28):
the five year momentum projectof the Hungarian Academy of
Sciences, I'm researching theNeo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian
divine world. The main objectiveof the project included the
organisation of the temporaryexhibition at the Museum of Fine
Arts. It was this project thatgave rise to this exhibition,
(12:50):
and invited Erika to organisethis temporary exhibition.
Jon Taylor (12:56):
And what has the reaction of the audience been to
your exhibition so far?
Erika Roboz (13:01):
The exhibition opened on the fourth of October
this year and will be open untilthe second day of February 2025.
it immediately received a verygood media impact and appeared
on different platforms (13:16):
press, online and TV in Hungary. After
two months open and beforeChristmas, we have nearly 40,000
of visitors now. There is agreat interest in this topic
from the public, and we aregetting excellent feedbacks, as
(13:37):
this is the first large-scaleexhibition on Mesopotamia in our
country. So it has the power ofnovelty in Hungary. Mainly, our
temporary exhibitions in themuseum, as Zoltán mentioned, are
focusing on fine arts, but thearchaeological exhibitions
(13:57):
dedicated to ancient art areusually very popular, because of
their rarity. So now we arepresenting an ancient culture
for the first time, from thisaspect, dealing with the divine,
which showing object types thatwill give many of our visitors a
completely new experience inancient art.
Zoltan Niederreiter (14:21):
It is important to mention that many
school groups come and theexhibition offers them
interesting things from ahistorical, religious, literary
and artistic perspective. Duringthe preparations, the question
of how the exhibition would bereceived and how many people
would come to see it oftenarose. For the museum staff,
(14:44):
this must have been timely,because the museum has been
organising temporary exhibitionsyear after year for the last 20
years. They are preceded byanticipation and a great deal of
interest in Hungary, especiallyin Budapest. And I think we
(15:04):
managed to present now anotherangle, another aspect of the
civilisations. So the ancientMesopotamia, this exhibition was
really timely.
Jon Taylor (15:15):
With an exhibition on this kind of scale, what does
it take? I mean, how long did ittake to prepare this and what
did it involve? What did youhave to do to turn this from an
idea into a reality?
Zoltan Niederreiter (15:27):
In November 2021, three years before the
opening of the exhibition, wecontacted the museum's Director
General. We tried to convincehim of the interest and
importance of this exhibition.
We needed to find objects forloan that would be inviting,
(15:47):
eye-catching and exciting forvisitors. We focused on European
museum collections. Museums inEngland and the United States
were excluded, because of thehigh costs. Over the past 15
years, I have been researchingancient Mesopotamian objects in
(16:07):
several European museums. Thecurators whom I approached with
the concept of the exhibitionand the loan of the objects,
liked the fact that the plannedexhibition focused on a specific
theme and period. They found thetheme of our exhibition
interesting and supported itfrom the beginning.
(16:33):
During the selection of theobjects to loan, particular
emphasis was placed on findsfrom the capitals of Assyria:
Ashur, Dur-sharrukin and Kalhu,and from Babylon. Since these
objects were excavated in thesecond half of the 19th century
(16:53):
and the early 20th century. AndI have been working with
Mathilde Avisseau Brustet thecurator of the Bibliothèque
Nationale de France for years.
Thanks to her, we have been ableto loan over 90 objects for the
exhibition. These are smallobjects, but include unpublished
objects and objects that havenot yet been loaned. The clay
(17:18):
statues from Dur-sharrukin arethe first to leave the
Bibliothèque Nationale de Francesince they arrived in Paris. In
addition several amulets andcylinder seals arrived that had
previously been unpublished.
(17:38):
Ariane Thomas, the chief curatorof the Louvre also mentioned
that the glazed brick panel fromSusa was the first to be
exhibited outside Paris.
So I started discussions withthe curators of European museums
in 2022. the list of objects tobe loaned was completed in six
(18:02):
months. The sections of theexhibition and the main themes
were developed in the secondhalf of 2022. And in April 2023,
a year and a half before theopening of the exhibition, the
director of the museum indicatedthat the museum would be able to
(18:24):
host the exhibition. So threeyears into the epidemic and then
economic problems, manyquestions have arisen. This
influenced the list of objectsto be loaned and the size of the
exhibition, as well as thechoice of space for the
exhibition. Finally, thisexhibition was also held in a
(18:48):
selected area of the museum forlarge exhibitions. The
exhibition covers an area of1400 square metres.
From May 2023, I also had tofocus on the exhibition
catalogue. I asked fiveHungarian and 17 foreign
(19:11):
contributors to write shortessays. Colleagues, museum
researchers, and professorswrote one or more short essays.
It is very important to say thatthey undertook this work at my
first request. Once themanuscripts arrived, we had nine
(19:31):
months with three assistanteditors, Erika Roboz, Mónika
Nyitrai, and András Bácskay, totranslate the studies, to
prepare my own studies and mostof the catalogue entries. In the
end, they published a 500 pageexhibition catalogue in English
(19:52):
and a similar one in Hungarian.
No volume on ancient Mesopotamiahas been published in our
country in the past 20 years. Sowe hope that this will be
popular. It is important tomention that we also want to
enrich a assyriological,archaeological, religious
(20:13):
history and art research withthis volume. For me, the biggest
task in the last year was theexhibition catalogue. I invited
the contributors to a workshop,where we had lectures on the
theme of the divine world, andvisited the exhibition together.
Jon Taylor (20:37):
Yes, thank you very much. I enjoyed it. It was a
lovely exhibition.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Erika Roboz (20:41):
It is important to mention that Zoltán had a former
and stable professionalrelationship with the curators
of the loaning collections,which greatly helped to acquire
the exhibited objects. Thesevaluable relationships that have
allowed us to get permission tomake our special ideas. For
(21:02):
example, to display a bronzePazuzu head amulet with a loop
on its top from the collectionof the Bibliothèque Nationale de
France, using an installationmethod which is imitating the
hanging of the object.
Zoltan Niederreiter (21:19):
So we can mention further examples
concerning the display of theobject. If you are interested?
Jon Taylor (21:26):
Yes, why not? Please carry on.
Zoltan Niederreiter (21:28):
For example, a visitor can view the
minerals alongside the cylinderseals, in addition to the raw
materials. And at the same time,visitor can see how modern seal
impressions are made, as well ashow we document, photograph and
create illustrations of them.
Next to the cylinder sealsdepicting wildlife, there are
(21:50):
photographs of wild animals ofthe Middle East. And we show the
wild animals that make upMushhushshu, the snake dragon.
In the case of astral gods,stars and constellations, a
photograph of the night sky isaccompanied by a lapis lazuli,
(22:11):
which the Mesopotamians believedresembled the starry night sky
through its pyrite inclusions.
On the subject of the zodiac,next to microzodiac cuneiform
tablet from the HellenisticUruk, the visitor can see
(22:35):
Albrecht Durer's famous work,the celestial map of the
Northern Hemisphere, depictingthe zodiac and the dial of St
Mark's clock tower in Venice,with its golden constellations
on a lazurite background. Sothese are interesting examples
(22:56):
concerning the presentation ofthe ancient object with the new
ones, or the wild animals, etc.
Jon Taylor (23:03):
Yes, thank you. I particularly enjoyed the
presentation of the rawmaterials with the cylinder
seals. I think that was a verygood way to display that kind of
material. It's very difficult todisplay seals in a way that
makes it interesting forvisitors. I thought that was
very impressive.
Zoltan Niederreiter (23:17):
Thank you.
Jon Taylor (23:19):
I wonder if we could talk a little bit more about the
Hungarian context of this. Soyou mentioned that it was the
first major display onMesopotamia in Hungary, and that
it has a certain novelty value.
But could you say something moreabout its importance? What do
you think its legacy will be?
Erika Roboz (23:36):
For the first time, our museum is presenting a
temporary exhibition on ancientMesopotamia. The public can see
objects from several well-knownEuropean collections in one
place, in Budapest. The specialfeature of the exhibition is
that it is based on an ongoingresearch, so visitors will also
(23:59):
be able to discover new resultsand aspects on this topic.
Besides, visitors can also readabout the Mesopotamian divine
world by foreign authors who arepublished in Hungarian for the
first time in our exhibitioncatalogue. Previously in Hungary
(24:19):
in 1968 a traveling exhibitionon Mesopotamia was organised in
the Kunsthalle, the museumbuilding opposite our museum on
the Heroes' Square in Budapest,which was opened for just a few
weeks, and presented theselected object material from
the Iraq museum. So we can saythat our exhibition is the first
(24:44):
in our country in terms of itsscale and the subject focusing
to the divine world.
Jon Taylor (24:52):
Mm, hmm. Finally, could we turn then to the museum
itself? Because the museum has acollection of its own, doesn't
it? So it's not just thematerials that you were
borrowing for the temporaryexhibition. Could you say
something about the permanentdisplays that you have in the
museum, please, and thecollection there?
Erika Roboz (25:10):
Yes, sure. Zoltan, do you start?
Zoltan Niederreiter (25:14):
For decades, the ancient Near
Eastern material kept in theMuseum of Fine Arts had not been
exhibited in the museum. In2013, I managed to exhibit the
main objects of this material ina showcase. The small exhibition
was the result of an agreementwith the head of the Egyptian
(25:36):
antiquities. Since 2018 thematerial is on display in a
larger showcase in the permanentexhibition, which I have already
arranged with Erika. It was achallenge and an experience for
us, which we could then use inthe preparation of this
(25:58):
exhibition.
Erika Roboz (26:01):
The ancient Middle Eastern object material is the
part of the Egyptian collectionin our museum, which forms a
separate unit within the maincollection. The objects have
been acquired mainly fromvarious private collections
through museum purchases or asdonations. So most of the
(26:23):
objects came from differentperiods of Mesopotamia, Iran,
and Anatolia, which gives adiverse picture of the material.
The less than 200 objects can beseparated to four main object
types, the majority of which are29 cylinder seals and also stamp
(26:46):
seals. The ultimately 100artifacts, glyptic represents
then half of the objectmaterial, which makes it the
most relevant part of thiscollection unit. The smaller
part of this unit includesbronze objects from various
periods, as well as cuneiformdocuments, for example, Sumerian
(27:10):
clay tablets--11 Sumerian claytablets--and nine Sumerian and
Neo-Babylonian stamped bricks.
And we have other clay objectsalso. For example, late Uruk
mosaic cones and fertility idolsfrom the Middle Bronze Age
Turkmenistan. The earliest dateobject group are mosaic cones
(27:31):
from the late Uruk period, andthe latest date objects are the
Sassanid gems dating back to thethird to the seventh century AD.
Jon Taylor (27:45):
Okay, super. Thank you. Do you have a favourite
object from the exhibition?
Zoltan Niederreiter (27:51):
This object is the glazed brick
representation of Mushhushshu,the snake-dragon, which is on
display in our exhibition. Thisobject comes from the Glyptotek
in Copenhagen, and has becomethe emblematic figure of the
exhibition. It adorned theIshtar Gate, which stood in
(28:11):
Babylon, perhaps one of thelargest cities in the world at
the time. It must havefascinated the inhabitants and
the visitors of the city. Overtime, much of the Ishtar Gate
collapsed and was buriedunderground. However, over time,
much of the Ishtar Gatecollapsed and was buried
underground. Centuries later,Babylon was forgotten by
(28:31):
mankind. The deep blue glazedbricks lay worthless on the
ground or underground. TheGerman archaeologists, Robert
Koldewey and Walter Andrae,after excavating the Ishtar
Gate, were able to identify itsarchitectural decoration.
Initially, they recognised thedecoration of the early phase,
(28:56):
which had been preserved in situand can still be seen in
Babylon. They then realised thatthe tiny fragments of glazed
brick could be used to assemblethe figures, and even rebuilt
the entrance of the Ishtar Gatein Berlin, based on Walter
Andrae's designs. This exampleshows how a forgotten object can
(29:21):
regain its former value, andwonder.
Erika Roboz (29:25):
My favorite object is the "Heil-plaque", what is a
Lamashtu amulet made from bronzefrom the collection of the
Louvre This is a famous piecerepresenting the demonic world
of Mesopotamia. It illustrateswell what the complexity of
beliefs about the demons meantto the ancient people.
Jon Taylor (29:51):
Hmm, okay. Well, thank you both very much.
Erika Roboz (29:53):
Thank you.
Zoltan Niederreiter (29:54):
Thank you so much. We are grateful for
this kind invitation.
Jon Taylor (29:59):
I’d also like to thank our patrons
Jiménez, Jana Matuszak, NancyHighcock, Jay C, Rune
Rattenborg, Woodthrush, ElisaRossberger, Mark Weeden, Jordi
Mon Companys, Thomas Bolin, JoanPorter MacIver, John MacGinnis,
(30:20):
Andrew George, Yelena Rakic,Zach Rubin, Sabina Franke, Shai
Gordin, Aaron Macks, MaarjaSeire, Jaafar Jotheri, Morgan
Hite, Chikako Watanabe, MarkMcElwaine, Jonathan Blanchard
Smith, Kliment Ohr, ChristinaTsouparopoulou, TT, Melanie
(30:44):
Gross, Claire Weir, MarcVeldman, Bruno Biermann, Faimon
Roberts, Jason Moser, PavlaRosenstein, Müge
Durusu-Tanrıöver, Tate Paulette,Willis Monroe, Toby Wickenden,
Emmert Clevenstine, BarbaraPorter, Cheryl Morgan, Kevin Roy
(31:07):
Jackson, Susannah Paulus, EricWhitacre, Jakob Flygare, Jon
Ganuza, BonnieNilhamn-Kuosmanen, Ben, Michael
Gitlin, Janet Evans Houser,Baladitya Yellapragada, as well
as those who prefer to remainanonymous.
(31:29):
I really appreciate yoursupport. It makes a big
difference. Every penny receivedhas contributed towards
translations. Thanks of courseto the lovely people who have
worked on the translations on avoluntary basis or for well
below the market rate. ForArabic, thanks in particular to
Zainab Mizyidawi, as well asLina Meerchyad and May Al-Aseel.
(31:53):
For Turkish, thank you to PinarDurgun and Nesrin Akan. TEW is
still young, but I want to reacha sustainable level, where
translators are given propercompensation for their hard
work.
And thank you for listening toThin End of the Wedge. If you
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(32:14):
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(32:35):
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you’ll join us next time.
Hello, and welcome to the Thin End of the Wedge,
the podcast where experts fromaround the world share new and
interesting stories about lifein the ancient Middle East. My
name is Jon. Each episode, Italk to friends and colleagues
and get them to explain theirwork in a way we can all
understand.
Special exhibitions provideimportant opportunities for
(00:34):
Assyriology to raise awarenessand generate interest. There are
impressive permanent displays inthe big international museums,
and often also interestingdisplays in museums with smaller
collections. But exhibitionswork differently. They come with
a brief but intense injection offunds, an opportunity to display
(00:57):
in a custom environment, testnew techniques, and attract
press and public attention.
Right now there is a majorexhibition in Budapest dedicated
to the gods and demons ofMesopotamia. It brings together
loans of spectacular objectsfrom across Europe. This is the
first large-scale exhibition onMesopotamia in Hungary.
(01:19):
Alongside it comes a cataloguewith essays from international
scholars in Hungarian; the firstassyriological publication in
Hungarian in 20 years.
Our guests are the co-curatorsof this exhibition. They explain
how the exhibition came toabout, what it took it make it
happen, what its impact hasbeen, and what its legacy will
(01:41):
be.
Hello and welcome to Thin End ofthe Wedge. Thank you for joining
us.
Zoltan Niederreiter (01:54):
Hi Jon, thank you for this kind
invitation.
Erika Roboz (01:58):
And also we welcome everybody who is listening to us
now.
Jon Taylor (02:03):
Could you tell us please
you do?
Zoltan Niederreiter (02:07):
I'm Zoltán Niederreiter, Professor of the
University of Budapest. I teachassyriology and archaeology. And
I'm the curator of the temporaryexhibition organised in
Budapest.
Erika Roboz (02:22):
Hello. My name is Erika Roboz. And I am a staff
member of the Museum of FineArts, Budapest. I am the co-
curator of the currentexhibition, what is the topic is
today. and I am a historian.
Jon Taylor (02:40):
Okay, can you start us off then with the basics?
What is the exhibition called,and what is it about?
Zoltan Niederreiter (02:47):
The exhibition, "Mesopotamia,
kingdom of gods and demons", isthe result of a joint effort by
the Museum of Fine Arts Budapestand the momentum research
project of the Hungarian Academyof Sciences. The four months
temporary exhibition focuses onancient Mesopotamia, primarily
(03:08):
the Neo-Assyrian andNeo-Babylonian periods. Gods,
demons and hybrid creatures arethe protagonists of the
exhibition. They are presentedthrough written, pictorial, and
material sources. We aim todisplay the Mesopotamian
heritage focusing on the divineworld. A well-developed concept
(03:33):
was important, in which wewanted to evoke the divine
figures in nine sections. Jon,please let me know whether I can
present briefly the ninesections now.
Jon Taylor (03:47):
Yes, please do. What are the sections, please?
Zoltan Niederreiter (03:50):
Okay. The first concentrates on the
archaeological discovery ofBabylon, primarily the Ishtar
Gate. The second looks at thevarious activities, gods and
ceremonies, campaigns, hunts ofthe kings chosen by the gods to
provide for them and serve them.
The third section presents thestones used as raw materials,
(04:16):
their mythical origins, and thecylinder seals made for them.
The seal images depict the wildanimals and hybrid creatures and
the divine and supernaturalfigures. Which led us to our
next topic, the divine world.
(04:37):
This includes the variousMesopotamian myths beginning
with the creation of the world,birth of the gods, and their
struggles. Here we also presentthe astral gods, Sin, Shamash,
and Ishtar, and the zodiac.
Then we present the next layerof the sky, where Adad the
(05:00):
weather god appears. Then onthis journey, we go further down
and arrive in our world, wherewe have summoned a house and its
inhabitants. Here we focus onthe demonic world, primarily on
the two most important demons,Pazuzu and Lamashtu. We try to
(05:23):
present the impact the demonshave on humans when they appear
in the different spheres. Wepresent the role of the gods and
demons in the individual life ofthe people of ancient
Mesopotamia from birth to death,focusing on everyday activities
(05:43):
and the home.
Next section evokes the Assyrianpalaces through palace reliefs
depicting divine beings. Ourconcept was that at the end of
the exhibition, visitors couldreturn to Babylon, where they
started from. But here, at theend, they would not see the
(06:06):
discovery of Babylon, but itsheyday, that is the capital of
the neo-Babylonian empire.
Through the amulets, rituals,prayers, hymns, we introduce
Marduk, the city's chief god,his temple, and Mushhushshu, the
snake-dragon, who was assignedto his service.
(06:29):
This foreshadows the last topic,which examines the Tower of
Babel, the famous ziggurat, thestepped temple tower, described
by the Bible. Its imagery liveson as topos in the paintings and
graphic art of the late 16thcentury Low Countries and 20th
(06:50):
century Hungary. We hope thatthe exhibition brings the
heritage of ancient Mesopotamiacloser to the Hungarian public
and to international visitors.
At the same time, we aim toenrich the research in
assyriology and on the art andarchaeology of ancient
Mesopotamia by presenting theworld of gods and demons,
(07:12):
focusing primarily onNeo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian
sources.
Erika Roboz (07:19):
An extra closing section is attached to the
exhibition, which presents twoiconic Mesopotamian motifs
appearing in the today's visualand popular culture, especially
focusing to the world of cinema.
The one is the figure of thedemon Pazuzu, and another is the
famous city of Babylon, which wepresent via movie short cuts.
(07:44):
For example, we show scenesprojecting on the walls of this
room from the American horrormovie entitled "The Exorcist",
from 1973 directed by WilliamFriedkin, and from the German
expressionist silent Sci-Fientitled "Metropolis", directed
by Fritz Lang from 1927.
Jon Taylor (08:11):
Okay, thank you. So you explained a little bit there
about the sections and thetopics you're covering in
each.Now obviously, thosestories have to be told through
objects. And usually there's akey object in each of the
sections. Could you maybe saysomething about some of the most
important objects you have inthe exhibition?
Erika Roboz (08:30):
The nine sections features one highlight object,
or a group of objects, which arethe key objects. These have been
selected for their higherartistic and/or aesthetic value,
but often for their size torepresent the theme of the
section that attracts the eye.
So in the first section, thereis a glazed brick relief panel
(08:53):
of a lion from the processionalway of Babylon. In the second
section, there is a kudurru ofBel-ahhe-eriba, the governor of
Babylon, is the highlightobject. In the third section,
there is an Achaemenid glazedbrick relief panel depicting two
(09:15):
human-faced winged sphinxes fromSusa. In the fourth section,
there is a basalt stela fromArslantash.
Fifth section, there are threeunbaked clay figurines of two
bull-men and a lion-demon fromDur-sharrukin. In the sixth
(09:39):
section, there is the famous"Heil-plaque", a Lamashtu emulet
from the Louvre collection. Inthe seventh section, a palace
relief depicting a bird-headedApkallu before a stylised tree
from Kalhu from the collectionof the Staatliche
Kunstsammlungen Dresden, withits weight of more than one
(09:59):
tons, and with its size ofalmost two metres high.
In the eighth section, there isa glazed brick relief panel of a
Mushhushshu from the Ishtar Gateof Babylon. And in the ninth
section, dealing with the motifof the Tower of Babel, there is
(10:21):
an oil painting from an unknownFlemish painter of the 16th
century depicting the Tower ofBabel motif from the old masters
collection of our museum. Theother artworks in this room also
are from fine art collectionsrepresenting the artistic
(10:42):
appearances of this motif in theEuropean and Hungarian art.
Jon Taylor (10:48):
Mm-hmm. Exhibitions tend to be quite a lot of work.
Obviously, there's the limitednumber of exhibitions that can
be put on, so why thisparticular subject and why now?
Zoltan Niederreiter (10:59):
The Museum of Fine Arts, Budapest regularly
hosts temporary exhibitions,mostly of painting. The Director
General of the museum hassupported the plan for this
ancient Mesopotamian exhibitionfrom the very beginning. The
presentation of the ancientMesopotamian heritage in an
(11:20):
exhibition was timely. AncientMesopotamian culture and
civilisation has been muchtalked about in recent years.
I'm thinking here of thedestruction of the Mesopotamian
heritage in Iraq. Not only thearchaeologists and
assyriologists, but also thegeneral public are aware of
(11:43):
this. Unfortunately, this hasmeant the looting of the Iraq
Museum in 2003 and thedestruction of the
archaeological sites andmonuments around Mosul in 2014.
In addition, a number of lootingoperations have taken place in
Iraq over the years, resultingin objects being destroyed
(12:08):
without documentation or beingtrafficked illegally.
Now, visitors to the exhibitioncan discover another side of
this civilisation. And there isanother really important and
actual situation, in the case ofus. Since, in the framework of
(12:28):
the five year momentum projectof the Hungarian Academy of
Sciences, I'm researching theNeo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian
divine world. The main objectiveof the project included the
organisation of the temporaryexhibition at the Museum of Fine
Arts. It was this project thatgave rise to this exhibition,
(12:50):
and invited Erika to organisethis temporary exhibition.
Jon Taylor (12:56):
And what has the reaction of the audience been to
your exhibition so far?
Erika Roboz (13:01):
The exhibition opened on the fourth of October
this year and will be open untilthe second day of February 2025.
it immediately received a verygood media impact and appeared
on different platforms (13:16):
press, online and TV in Hungary. After
two months open and beforeChristmas, we have nearly 40,000
of visitors now. There is agreat interest in this topic
from the public, and we aregetting excellent feedbacks, as
(13:37):
this is the first large-scaleexhibition on Mesopotamia in our
country. So it has the power ofnovelty in Hungary. Mainly, our
temporary exhibitions in themuseum, as Zoltán mentioned, are
focusing on fine arts, but thearchaeological exhibitions
(13:57):
dedicated to ancient art areusually very popular, because of
their rarity. So now we arepresenting an ancient culture
for the first time, from thisaspect, dealing with the divine,
which showing object types thatwill give many of our visitors a
completely new experience inancient art.
Zoltan Niederreiter (14:21):
It is important to mention that many
school groups come and theexhibition offers them
interesting things from ahistorical, religious, literary
and artistic perspective. Duringthe preparations, the question
of how the exhibition would bereceived and how many people
would come to see it oftenarose. For the museum staff,
(14:44):
this must have been timely,because the museum has been
organising temporary exhibitionsyear after year for the last 20
years. They are preceded byanticipation and a great deal of
interest in Hungary, especiallyin Budapest. And I think we
(15:04):
managed to present now anotherangle, another aspect of the
civilisations. So the ancientMesopotamia, this exhibition was
really timely.
Jon Taylor (15:15):
With an exhibition on this kind of scale, what does
it take? I mean, how long did ittake to prepare this and what
did it involve? What did youhave to do to turn this from an
idea into a reality?
Zoltan Niederreiter (15:27):
In November 2021, three years before the
opening of the exhibition, wecontacted the museum's Director
General. We tried to convincehim of the interest and
importance of this exhibition.
We needed to find objects forloan that would be inviting,
(15:47):
eye-catching and exciting forvisitors. We focused on European
museum collections. Museums inEngland and the United States
were excluded, because of thehigh costs. Over the past 15
years, I have been researchingancient Mesopotamian objects in
(16:07):
several European museums. Thecurators whom I approached with
the concept of the exhibitionand the loan of the objects,
liked the fact that the plannedexhibition focused on a specific
theme and period. They found thetheme of our exhibition
interesting and supported itfrom the beginning.
(16:33):
During the selection of theobjects to loan, particular
emphasis was placed on findsfrom the capitals of Assyria:
Ashur, Dur-sharrukin and Kalhu,and from Babylon. Since these
objects were excavated in thesecond half of the 19th century
(16:53):
and the early 20th century. AndI have been working with
Mathilde Avisseau Brustet thecurator of the Bibliothèque
Nationale de France for years.
Thanks to her, we have been ableto loan over 90 objects for the
exhibition. These are smallobjects, but include unpublished
objects and objects that havenot yet been loaned. The clay
(17:18):
statues from Dur-sharrukin arethe first to leave the
Bibliothèque Nationale de Francesince they arrived in Paris. In
addition several amulets andcylinder seals arrived that had
previously been unpublished.
(17:38):
Ariane Thomas, the chief curatorof the Louvre also mentioned
that the glazed brick panel fromSusa was the first to be
exhibited outside Paris.
So I started discussions withthe curators of European museums
in 2022. the list of objects tobe loaned was completed in six
(18:02):
months. The sections of theexhibition and the main themes
were developed in the secondhalf of 2022. And in April 2023,
a year and a half before theopening of the exhibition, the
director of the museum indicatedthat the museum would be able to
(18:24):
host the exhibition. So threeyears into the epidemic and then
economic problems, manyquestions have arisen. This
influenced the list of objectsto be loaned and the size of the
exhibition, as well as thechoice of space for the
exhibition. Finally, thisexhibition was also held in a
(18:48):
selected area of the museum forlarge exhibitions. The
exhibition covers an area of1400 square metres.
From May 2023, I also had tofocus on the exhibition
catalogue. I asked fiveHungarian and 17 foreign
(19:11):
contributors to write shortessays. Colleagues, museum
researchers, and professorswrote one or more short essays.
It is very important to say thatthey undertook this work at my
first request. Once themanuscripts arrived, we had nine
(19:31):
months with three assistanteditors, Erika Roboz, Mónika
Nyitrai, and András Bácskay, totranslate the studies, to
prepare my own studies and mostof the catalogue entries. In the
end, they published a 500 pageexhibition catalogue in English
(19:52):
and a similar one in Hungarian.
No volume on ancient Mesopotamiahas been published in our
country in the past 20 years. Sowe hope that this will be
popular. It is important tomention that we also want to
enrich a assyriological,archaeological, religious
(20:13):
history and art research withthis volume. For me, the biggest
task in the last year was theexhibition catalogue. I invited
the contributors to a workshop,where we had lectures on the
theme of the divine world, andvisited the exhibition together.
Jon Taylor (20:37):
Yes, thank you very much. I enjoyed it. It was a
lovely exhibition.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Erika Roboz (20:41):
It is important to mention that Zoltán had a former
and stable professionalrelationship with the curators
of the loaning collections,which greatly helped to acquire
the exhibited objects. Thesevaluable relationships that have
allowed us to get permission tomake our special ideas. For
(21:02):
example, to display a bronzePazuzu head amulet with a loop
on its top from the collectionof the Bibliothèque Nationale de
France, using an installationmethod which is imitating the
hanging of the object.
Zoltan Niederreiter (21:19):
So we can mention further examples
concerning the display of theobject. If you are interested?
Jon Taylor (21:26):
Yes, why not? Please carry on.
Zoltan Niederreiter (21:28):
For example, a visitor can view the
minerals alongside the cylinderseals, in addition to the raw
materials. And at the same time,visitor can see how modern seal
impressions are made, as well ashow we document, photograph and
create illustrations of them.
Next to the cylinder sealsdepicting wildlife, there are
(21:50):
photographs of wild animals ofthe Middle East. And we show the
wild animals that make upMushhushshu, the snake dragon.
In the case of astral gods,stars and constellations, a
photograph of the night sky isaccompanied by a lapis lazuli,
(22:11):
which the Mesopotamians believedresembled the starry night sky
through its pyrite inclusions.
On the subject of the zodiac,next to microzodiac cuneiform
tablet from the HellenisticUruk, the visitor can see
(22:35):
Albrecht Durer's famous work,the celestial map of the
Northern Hemisphere, depictingthe zodiac and the dial of St
Mark's clock tower in Venice,with its golden constellations
on a lazurite background. Sothese are interesting examples
(22:56):
concerning the presentation ofthe ancient object with the new
ones, or the wild animals, etc.
Jon Taylor (23:03):
Yes, thank you. I particularly enjoyed the
presentation of the rawmaterials with the cylinder
seals. I think that was a verygood way to display that kind of
material. It's very difficult todisplay seals in a way that
makes it interesting forvisitors. I thought that was
very impressive.
Zoltan Niederreiter (23:17):
Thank you.
Jon Taylor (23:19):
I wonder if we could talk a little bit more about the
Hungarian context of this. Soyou mentioned that it was the
first major display onMesopotamia in Hungary, and that
it has a certain novelty value.
But could you say something moreabout its importance? What do
you think its legacy will be?
Erika Roboz (23:36):
For the first time, our museum is presenting a
temporary exhibition on ancientMesopotamia. The public can see
objects from several well-knownEuropean collections in one
place, in Budapest. The specialfeature of the exhibition is
that it is based on an ongoingresearch, so visitors will also
(23:59):
be able to discover new resultsand aspects on this topic.
Besides, visitors can also readabout the Mesopotamian divine
world by foreign authors who arepublished in Hungarian for the
first time in our exhibitioncatalogue. Previously in Hungary
(24:19):
in 1968 a traveling exhibitionon Mesopotamia was organised in
the Kunsthalle, the museumbuilding opposite our museum on
the Heroes' Square in Budapest,which was opened for just a few
weeks, and presented theselected object material from
the Iraq museum. So we can saythat our exhibition is the first
(24:44):
in our country in terms of itsscale and the subject focusing
to the divine world.
Jon Taylor (24:52):
Mm, hmm. Finally, could we turn then to the museum
itself? Because the museum has acollection of its own, doesn't
it? So it's not just thematerials that you were
borrowing for the temporaryexhibition. Could you say
something about the permanentdisplays that you have in the
museum, please, and thecollection there?
Erika Roboz (25:10):
Yes, sure. Zoltan, do you start?
Zoltan Niederreiter (25:14):
For decades, the ancient Near
Eastern material kept in theMuseum of Fine Arts had not been
exhibited in the museum. In2013, I managed to exhibit the
main objects of this material ina showcase. The small exhibition
was the result of an agreementwith the head of the Egyptian
(25:36):
antiquities. Since 2018 thematerial is on display in a
larger showcase in the permanentexhibition, which I have already
arranged with Erika. It was achallenge and an experience for
us, which we could then use inthe preparation of this
(25:58):
exhibition.
Erika Roboz (26:01):
The ancient Middle Eastern object material is the
part of the Egyptian collectionin our museum, which forms a
separate unit within the maincollection. The objects have
been acquired mainly fromvarious private collections
through museum purchases or asdonations. So most of the
(26:23):
objects came from differentperiods of Mesopotamia, Iran,
and Anatolia, which gives adiverse picture of the material.
The less than 200 objects can beseparated to four main object
types, the majority of which are29 cylinder seals and also stamp
(26:46):
seals. The ultimately 100artifacts, glyptic represents
then half of the objectmaterial, which makes it the
most relevant part of thiscollection unit. The smaller
part of this unit includesbronze objects from various
periods, as well as cuneiformdocuments, for example, Sumerian
(27:10):
clay tablets--11 Sumerian claytablets--and nine Sumerian and
Neo-Babylonian stamped bricks.
And we have other clay objectsalso. For example, late Uruk
mosaic cones and fertility idolsfrom the Middle Bronze Age
Turkmenistan. The earliest dateobject group are mosaic cones
(27:31):
from the late Uruk period, andthe latest date objects are the
Sassanid gems dating back to thethird to the seventh century AD.
Jon Taylor (27:45):
Okay, super. Thank you. Do you have a favourite
object from the exhibition?
Zoltan Niederreiter (27:51):
This object is the glazed brick
representation of Mushhushshu,the snake-dragon, which is on
display in our exhibition. Thisobject comes from the Glyptotek
in Copenhagen, and has becomethe emblematic figure of the
exhibition. It adorned theIshtar Gate, which stood in
(28:11):
Babylon, perhaps one of thelargest cities in the world at
the time. It must havefascinated the inhabitants and
the visitors of the city. Overtime, much of the Ishtar Gate
collapsed and was buriedunderground. However, over time,
much of the Ishtar Gatecollapsed and was buried
underground. Centuries later,Babylon was forgotten by
(28:31):
mankind. The deep blue glazedbricks lay worthless on the
ground or underground. TheGerman archaeologists, Robert
Koldewey and Walter Andrae,after excavating the Ishtar
Gate, were able to identify itsarchitectural decoration.
Initially, they recognised thedecoration of the early phase,
(28:56):
which had been preserved in situand can still be seen in
Babylon. They then realised thatthe tiny fragments of glazed
brick could be used to assemblethe figures, and even rebuilt
the entrance of the Ishtar Gatein Berlin, based on Walter
Andrae's designs. This exampleshows how a forgotten object can
(29:21):
regain its former value, andwonder.
Erika Roboz (29:25):
My favorite object is the "Heil-plaque", what is a
Lamashtu amulet made from bronzefrom the collection of the
Louvre This is a famous piecerepresenting the demonic world
of Mesopotamia. It illustrateswell what the complexity of
beliefs about the demons meantto the ancient people.
Jon Taylor (29:51):
Hmm, okay. Well, thank you both very much.
Erika Roboz (29:53):
Thank you.
Zoltan Niederreiter (29:54):
Thank you so much. We are grateful for
this kind invitation.
Jon Taylor (29:59):
I’d also like to thank our patrons
Jiménez, Jana Matuszak, NancyHighcock, Jay C, Rune
Rattenborg, Woodthrush, ElisaRossberger, Mark Weeden, Jordi
Mon Companys, Thomas Bolin, JoanPorter MacIver, John MacGinnis,
(30:20):
Andrew George, Yelena Rakic,Zach Rubin, Sabina Franke, Shai
Gordin, Aaron Macks, MaarjaSeire, Jaafar Jotheri, Morgan
Hite, Chikako Watanabe, MarkMcElwaine, Jonathan Blanchard
Smith, Kliment Ohr, ChristinaTsouparopoulou, TT, Melanie
(30:44):
Gross, Claire Weir, MarcVeldman, Bruno Biermann, Faimon
Roberts, Jason Moser, PavlaRosenstein, Müge
Durusu-Tanrıöver, Tate Paulette,Willis Monroe, Toby Wickenden,
Emmert Clevenstine, BarbaraPorter, Cheryl Morgan, Kevin Roy
(31:07):
Jackson, Susannah Paulus, EricWhitacre, Jakob Flygare, Jon
Ganuza, BonnieNilhamn-Kuosmanen, Ben, Michael
Gitlin, Janet Evans Houser,Baladitya Yellapragada, as well
as those who prefer to remainanonymous.
(31:29):
I really appreciate yoursupport. It makes a big
difference. Every penny receivedhas contributed towards
translations. Thanks of courseto the lovely people who have
worked on the translations on avoluntary basis or for well
below the market rate. ForArabic, thanks in particular to
Zainab Mizyidawi, as well asLina Meerchyad and May Al-Aseel.
(31:53):
For Turkish, thank you to PinarDurgun and Nesrin Akan. TEW is
still young, but I want to reacha sustainable level, where
translators are given propercompensation for their hard
work.
And thank you for listening toThin End of the Wedge. If you
enjoy what we do, and you wouldlike to help make these podcasts
(32:14):
available in Middle Easternlanguages, please consider
joining our Patreon family. Youcan find us at
patreon.com/wedgepod. You canalso support us in other ways:
simply subscribe to the podcast;leave us a five star review on
Apple Music or your favouritepodcatcher; recommend us to your
(32:35):
friends. If you want the latestpodcast news, you can sign up
for our newsletter. You can findall the links in the show notes
and on our website atwedgepod.org. Thanks, and I hope
you’ll join us next time.
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