January 15, 2024 • 33 mins
E-bike sales outpaced EVs and hybrid cars in both 2021 and 2022. In fact, research shows that by 2030, E-Bike sales are expected to 3x, outpacing even the rapid growth of passenger cars! There is a Bike Revolution taking place across the world and it is not only reshaping personal commuting but also freight and last-mile delivery services.
In today's episode of Things Have Changed Podcast, we dive into the world of urban mobility with Mikko Ampuja, the founder and former CEO of Vapaus, a Helsinki-based startup reshaping the way we think about city commuting. Miko brings a unique blend of personal experience and industry expertise, making this episode a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of technology, sustainability, and urban planning.
Miko delves into the evolving bicycle industry across Europe, particularly in cycling-friendly cities like Copenhagen and Amsterdam, highlighting how innovations in cycling are not just about transportation, but also about fostering healthier, more sustainable cities.
Join us on Things Have Changed Podcast as we explore how Vapaus is leading the global movement, with their unique approach to making cycling an accessible and attractive option for commuters.
THE HIGH-EARNING WOMEN PODCASTThis podcast empowers high-earning women to make informed financial decisions and thrive.
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jed Tabernero (00:01):
In the busing city centers, where the hum of
engines often drowns out themorning, Birdsong.
A quiet revolution is takingshape.
Mikko Ampuja (00:10):
I used to work in the city center of Helsinki.
Then as a young professional, Igot myself a car but then the
reality of actually, driving inHelsinki was terrible.
Jed Tabernero (00:21):
Think about your daily commute.
The stop and go traffic.
The endless search for parking.
It's a routine, many of us knowtoo well.
Mikko Ampuja (00:30):
I used to take my car and then drive it to my
office.
I.
Realized that, Hey, I'm actuallysitting in the traffic lights
constantly.
Then trying to figure out whereto actually park my car.
One month, I actually, I think Igot something like three or four
parking tickets in two weeks.
Hey, this doesn't make anysense.
Jed Tabernero (00:47):
But what if this routine could be different, more
efficient?
Healthier.
And even kinder to our planet.
Mikko Ampuja (00:56):
I need to get rid of the car.
I started cycling.
And I realized that, Hey, thisis actually faster, I can get to
whatever I want really fast.
And actually research alreadystates that bicycle is usually
the fastest way to go aroundcity centers.
When you have less than fivemiles to cover, it's seriously,
it's super fast.
Not many people actuallyunderstand it before they, they
(01:17):
try it out.
Jed Tabernero (01:17):
Today, we're joined by Mikko.
Um, the founder and former CEOof Uh, company born out of the
streets of Helsinki.
That boss isn't just aboutbikes.
It's about redefining theessence of city community.
Mikko Ampuja (01:36):
The energy that you have, like in the morning,
if you start your day with ahalf an hour on a bicycle,
instead of sitting in thetraffic, sitting in the car,
it's completely different.
You get to the office and you'realready like feeling like, yay.
Hey, I've done like my firstexercise of the day.
Let's bring it on.
Jed Tabernero (01:54):
Mika story is a Testament to a larger shift
happening in the urban centersaround the world.
Cities like Copenhagen.
Amsterdam.
And even the snowy Olu inFinland.
Are embracing and you ethos.
One where bicycles play acentral role in shaping urban
(02:14):
life.
Mikko Ampuja (02:14):
A lot of it definitely comes from urban
planning.
But it takes a long time.
To become a real cycling city.
In addition to Netherlands,Denmark is another like country
full of cyclists.
Really started designing theircities around the fact that cars
shouldn't be prioritized.
So let's gear up, shift ourperspectives and pedal into a
(02:37):
future where every revolutionbrings us closer to a world that
moves differently.
Shikher Bhandary (03:20):
So I wanted to start this call by talking about
my day, right?
My job and it might resemblemany other folks out there who
are listening to this call,right?
I wake up.
I get ready.
I drive out to work because inthe U S you have the scar
culture.
You have to get to work, whichis, five, six miles, and you
have to use the freeways.
(03:41):
You get in your car, you'resitting there and then you end
up at work.
And then you're sitting at thedesk for about eight to ten
hours straight.
In this modern tech drivenworld, our lives are so
sedentary.
Like we are sitting at work, athome, scrolling on your phone,
even in leisure time.
(04:01):
It's like becoming one of thebig concerns out there for
health and well being.
So on that context, wanted tointroduce our incredible guest
today Miko, founder and chiefbusiness development officer at
Worpus.
And this is a really uniqueplatform that not only addresses
our sedentary habits, but alsoaims to solve the practical
(04:25):
aspects of, commuting to work,but in a cost effective and zero
emission manner.
So what is their secretingredient, their secret sauce?
Well, Cycles, Miko, it's greatto have you on the show.
Mikko Ampuja (04:38):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
We're really trying to changesome things here.
So it's a, it's a really goodpodcast to be.
First of all, I used to work asa, like a consultant before did
like a 10 years of managementconsultancy doing market
research and new products andhow to enter markets and
whatnot.
I used to work in the citycenter of Helsinki.
And then as a youngprofessional, I kind of like,
(05:00):
you know, thought that, Hey, Iget to the working life, so I
need to, you know, upgrade mylife.
So I got myself a car and allthat, but but then the reality
of like, actually like drivingin Helsinki was terrible.
I used to take my car and thendrive it to my office.
I.
Realized that, Hey, I'm actuallysitting in the traffic lights
(05:21):
constantly.
Then trying to figure out whereto actually park my car.
One, one month, I actually, Ithink I got something like three
or four parking tickets in, intwo weeks.
I, I came to the conclusionthat, Hey, this doesn't make any
sense.
I need to get rid of the car.
Cause I live in the center.
We have really good, like publictransport and there's like all
the other opportunities as wellavailable.
(05:42):
But yeah, so I ditched the carand then I started cycling.
And I realized that, Hey, thisis actually faster cause I don't
need to look sit in the trafficlights.
I can get to the, like, whateverI want really fast.
And actually research alreadystates that bicycle is usually
the fastest way to go aroundlike city centers.
When you have less than fivemiles to cover, it's seriously,
(06:05):
it's super fast.
Not, not many people actuallyunderstand it before they, they
try it out.
But then again, the, the, thereally like the big thing was
that.
The energy that you have, likein the morning, if you, if you
start your day with a half anhour on a cycle on, on a
bicycle, instead of like sittingin the, in the traffic, sitting
in the car, it's completelydifferent.
(06:27):
You know, you, you get to theoffice and you're already like
feeling like, yay.
Hey, I've done like my firstexercise of the day.
Let's bring it on.
So it's, it's completelydifferent.
So that was, that was the, oneof the big things that I thought
that, Hey, you know, bicyclesare fantastic.
But at that point, I stilldidn't think that it's going to
be like a business for me, but Ithink one of the biggest things
(06:49):
in my life happened in 2017.
And that was when my daughterwas born, knowing that
everything that's happening inthe world with the climate
change and, and, and, andwhatnot, I really started
thinking about that, you know,this.
Little girl is going to ask mesome tough questions in 20 years
that, Hey, dad, what did you doduring the climate crisis?
(07:10):
I couldn't bear the idea that Iwouldn't have like a proper,
proper, like a answer to that.
Like it kind of felt like thatsort of moment when you have to
decide that, Hey, which side ofthe history are you going to be
with the, one of the biggest,biggest battles of Alzheimer's.
So that was actually the momentwhen I decided that, Hey, I'll
(07:31):
quit my consulting job.
and figure out something elsewhere I can actually live, like,
true to my values.
And yeah, there was so much likegood stuff happening with
cycling already at that point.
So I started looking into themarket and realized that, Hey,
so a really good, like consumerproducts, but not so much
happening in the business, thebusiness or like employer point
(07:54):
of view.
So that was really like, likehow we got started with Vapaus.
It's really fantastic right now.
Every morning that I wake up.
I can really think that, Hey,I'm actually like fulfilling the
mission that Hawaii, we startedthe whole company.
So I'm really happy about that.
I'm really excited about that.
Jed Tabernero (08:08):
That's awesome.
And it's a great story forgetting started.
I want to share a little,anecdote on my part, why I
thought this was such a coolbusiness to get into.
So I've changed my name for thiscall to be the husband of a
Dutch woman.
And I think for some people,this will be quite obvious of
why that is, but we haveaudiences from around the world.
(08:30):
In fact, the biggest are outsideof North America.
So I just wanted to share that,the reason why I changed that
name is because cycling is ahuge thing for my wife.
She's grown up with cycling.
I visit the Netherlands everyyear, at least twice or three
times a year.
And I don't get around there viacar.
I get around via cycle and.
(08:52):
Everywhere we go, whether it'sthe park or the mall, we all
cycle to get there's lanes andeverything.
The infrastructure for cyclingis insane.
I think there's a, there's like400 kilometers of cycling lanes
there.
And one really awesome thing Idid in the last summer is go to
the city of Utrecht and Utrechtis a beautiful city.
(09:13):
It's a smaller Amsterdam.
Has a lot of the same stuff.
The canals, the beauty, thebuildings.
One of the things that they hadin Utrecht is the biggest
bicycle parking lot.
I don't know if it's on theplanet.
Mikko Ampuja (09:28):
I think it is.
Jed Tabernero (09:28):
It is, it is in the planet.
Okay.
There's a slot for about.
I think it's 12, 500 bicycles inthis parking lot.
And dude, it's not a joke.
Like you come into it.
It looks like they reallythought about people coming in
and out, there's elevators andplaces.
It's a parking garage.
It's like proper really hugemind boggling for me coming
from, a very urban area, whichis, I'm in Jersey city.
(09:53):
I come to New York every day forwork, mind boggling for me to
see such good infrastructure forcycling.
Because I'm living in a placewhere I could technically cycle
to work, to be honest with you,but it just is so dangerous to
do so I guess, trying to putthis all together, why do you
think this works in places likehere, Europe more, you're
(10:13):
saying, you're seeing a lot ofthings.
For cycling coming up.
And I think that's very uniqueto the European market, although
in some places in America, we'restarting to figure it out, but
if you see somebody with a bikeover here, you assume they bike
on the weekends, you don'tassume they use it to go to
work.
You know what I mean?
So can you shed us a little bitof light on why this works for
the European market?
Mikko Ampuja (10:33):
A lot of it definitely comes from like just
urban planning.
Cause it's, it's not somethingthat, you know, you can just
overnight that decide that, Hey,we'll get rid of all the cars
here and we'll start cycling,but it takes a long time.
Really to become like a realcycling city.
In addition to Netherlands,Denmark is another like country
full of cyclists.
(10:53):
And they've been doing it forlike 50 years, like really
started designing their citiesaround the fact that cars
shouldn't be prioritized.
But car is one part of the, youknow, transportation in this, in
this city.
But we have other ways as well.
They have basically tried tobring bicycles to the same
level.
Maybe in some cases higher thanthe, than the car.
(11:15):
But really, you know, plan thecity from that point of view,
you go to Copenhagen or you goto Amsterdam, you know, the
bicycles are really, you know,up there, you can see them
everywhere.
And so like a huge part of thecommuting in, in, in those
cities, and it's not about theweather.
Because in Finland, for example,one of the biggest cycling
cities in Finland is Oulu, whichis 600 kilometers north from
(11:39):
Helsinki.
So there's like snow all thetime.
Well, not during the summertime,but anyway, during the winter
time.
So people cycle there likethroughout the year, despite the
weather.
In the middle of the snow, itdoesn't matter because the
infrastructure is good.
You have the cycle, I'll callthem highways, and you have the
network.
(11:59):
They have taken it intoconsideration that you have bike
parking and whatnot.
Shikher Bhandary (12:03):
I read this crazy stat that in Finland,
almost 50 to 60 percent of theworking population lives within
six, seven, eight kilometersfrom their work.
So it's they're so close that ifthe infrastructure is already
there, if the culture within thecommunity, within the city is
already there.
(12:25):
Like you mentioned, force ofhabit, everyone's just taking a
bike and reaching work just thesame way, which is great because
it hits like three things,right?
We mentioned it already, it hitsnot just the cost savings, not
just the sustainability aspect,but also your wealth.
There are just so many benefitsto it.
No wonder the solution isworking.
(12:46):
Can you break down what yourplatform offers?
Because I know you mentionedemployers.
I know there is a curation foremployees as well.
Mikko Ampuja (12:54):
In a nutshell, we provide is basically an employee
benefit bike.
So it's a, like a fringe benefitthat can be provided to your, to
your employees in a company.
So the process is quite simpleis that we make like a framework
contract with the, with theemployer that they decided, Hey,
now we want to start supportingcycling in our workplace.
(13:15):
And we want to provide thisbenefit to our employees.
We do the framework contract,and then, you know, you guys
can, for example, go to yourlocal bike shop or online stores
or whatever, and get the bicycleof your dreams.
And then that will be actuallyinvoiced in a way that we
basically sent the invoice tothe employer, and then they will
(13:36):
be reduced from your, from yourpaycheck.
So very similar to like acompany car benefit, but it's a
bicycle.
So it's cheaper, it's moresustainable.
It's better for your health.
Very, very simple.
But obviously the whole networkthat we are, we're operating
here is quite complex because ifyou go into the.
You know, car market, youusually have like a few brands
(13:59):
that you provide, but we can doactually more than 200 different
bicycle brands.
We have hundreds of partnersstores where you can get the
bicycles that we are offering.
We have built the software andthe platform and the product
that then facilitates this wholenetwork that you can go
basically.
Almost go anywhere and getyourself a bicycle through,
(14:20):
through the system.
Shikher Bhandary (14:22):
So anywhere within the market that you're
currently
Mikko Ampuja (14:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We are looking into solutionswhere we could actually like
expand more trap rapidly also,but that's not happening right
now.
It's in the future.
It's like so much likeopportunities in the market
right now.
Shikher Bhandary (14:37):
So that's on the B2B side, Miko.
So on the B2C, you're workingwith consumers.
You're seeing all these e bikes.
Come into the picture wherethey're a lot more expensive.
Cost is a big factor for you andyour mission.
So I'd love to understand howyou're tackling that challenge.
Mikko Ampuja (14:57):
The average price of the bicycle that we are
currently offering is like 3,200 euros.
Shikher Bhandary (15:02):
Wow.
Uh,
Jed Tabernero (15:04):
That's a secondhand car.
Shikher Bhandary (15:06):
that is,
Mikko Ampuja (15:07):
that's the average.
I think the most expensive onethat I've seen was like 12, 000
euros.
It kind of like already likegives you an idea that what's
happening in the bicycle marketis right now is that you know,
20 years ago they were quitesimple things, but now with the
e bikes, all the technology,they're Becoming like really,
really cool gadgets that arekind of like an amazing way.
(15:29):
If you, if you tried cycling 20years before and you try like a
brand new e bike right now,you're ready to have your mind
blown because they just feellike fantastic.
I, I, the first time I triedlike a real high quality e
mountain bike, for example.
It took me, I don't know, likehalf an hour.
I felt like a professionalmountain bike rider when I was
(15:50):
like riding through the forest,like a 20 miles an hour.
That's been happening all thetime that it's at the actual
price of the bikes is, is goingup, not just because of
inflation, but also just becausethat the high tech that is
actually going into thebicycles, but there's basically.
Two simple mechanics or actuallythree, how we try to tackle that
(16:12):
first one is that it's obviouswe provide this sort of like a
leasing service.
So you don't have to come upwith the whole 3000 euros or,
or, or more like upfront, butit's paid in like, just like
monthly installments.
The second thing is there's likea tax incentives happening all
around Europe.
There's like 150 millionemployees work in areas where
(16:34):
there's some sort of like taxincentive in place.
So actually you end up 20 to 35percent less for the bike.
That's a super importantcomponent.
And the third part is that wewanted to build the system from
the, and the business throughthis like a circular economy
foundation.
So we have very heavy focus alsoon used bikes.
(16:55):
So what happens is that weleased out to quite a like
substantial number of bicyclesto our customers and then
something happens.
So you decide that you don'twant to use the bicycle anymore.
So you can basically just returnit to us.
I think we have the biggestsecondhand bicycle store in the
Nordics currently.
That is like in house justbecause
Shikher Bhandary (17:15):
That itself is like a business.
Mikko Ampuja (17:18):
yeah, so we have those like returning bikes,
their secondhand bikes, reallywell kept high quality bikes.
And then we can then again,these, these, those again to new
users.
So all this like creates theplatform where we can actually
provide like really high qualitybikes for like a really
reasonable price for ourcustomers.
Jed Tabernero (17:38):
Do you also own the bikes then?
Wow.
Okay.
So it's actually your inventoryof bikes and you're responsible
for kind of the maintenance andall that stuff as
Mikko Ampuja (17:47):
we have a few ways of financing the fleet.
Some of the bikes are owned bylike an external leasing
partner, but we do have a bit ofhigh quality bikes on our own
balance sheet as well.
Shikher Bhandary (17:58):
that's pretty cool.
Like inventory management aside,both Jed and I have some
experience over there.
I'm just thinking you could justwake up one day and be like, you
know what?
I'm good with the 700 euro bike.
Let me just try out the 12, 000euro bike.
I mean, it's sitting rightthere.
We have, we've ordered extras.
(18:19):
Do those things cross your mindlike it would mine?
Or is it just me?
Mikko Ampuja (18:25):
The bicycle that I ride the most, I think it's
worth like a hundred bucks orsomething like that.
It's my, you know, go tobicycle.
Then again, every time I do golike walk in the, in the, in the
storage room and
Vaupaus_V0-03 (18:38):
the
Mikko Ampuja (18:38):
warehouse, Oh, that's, that's a really cool
one.
I need one of those.
And cause also what's happeningis that.
You know, you've got likebicycle for like a very many
like different situations andneeds.
You have something that isperfect for commuting and then
maybe like an e bike so you can,you know, go to work, get the
bit of exercise and bloodpumping, but you know, you don't
(19:01):
have to sweat because with an ebike you can control how much
effort you actually put into thecommuting.
Then you have the mountain bikesthen you have the cargo bikes.
Which is actually something thatI'm really like looking forward
to getting right now is theCargo bike because I could
actually Take my kid for a rideand then go to the like the
local supermarket to get all thegroceries and everything
Jed Tabernero (19:23):
Let me tell you, my wife, when I told her about
this was juiced, was ecstaticthat, there is such a company
that we're having on the showbecause her and her family,
obviously they love.
They love cycling.
And it's just a great way.
I read this crazy stat thatthere's only a few countries in
Europe that aren't getting moreand more obese.
(19:43):
And the Netherlands is one ofthem, which is, it's
interesting.
But then you think about whatkind of infrastructure they have
and how people get to work andwhat people exactly do.
And it's suddenly becomesobvious.
Yeah.
Everybody commutes to go towork.
The kids at a very young agestart cycling to very far away
high school.
Grade school, whatever it is,and everybody's so used to it.
(20:05):
And I used to think to myself, Igrew up in the Philippines, by
the way, cycling anywhere wouldmean I'm sweaty.
So if I'm cycling anywhere, gotto bring a towel.
Got to, if there's a shower, I'mshowering.
If there's no shower, there's noway you'll get me cycling.
Cause I grew up near theequator.
But now all of a sudden, I justthink about you have prime
ministers, like getting to workon a bike in the Netherlands,
(20:28):
like it's a testament to thefact that you don't have to be
all sweaty.
It's a part of the culture.
Maybe it's something you cancontrol depending on what kind
of bike you have or how distantyou are to work.
But it is now not so far from,the future to be able to just go
by, especially here.
It's so cold in New York city.
I feel like I wouldn't have thatconcern anymore, but it's not
(20:48):
obvious because that's notsomething.
The employers
Mikko Ampuja (20:51):
Yeah, and definitely e bikes are like a
complete game changer in thatthat sense because first of all,
you know You decide how how muchi'm going to push it Like I'm
going to get like a fullexercise.
So I'm just going to like cruiselike easily.
And it, there's like a ton ofresearch on that already that e
bikes are first of all loweringthe threshold of actually
(21:13):
starting cycling, alsoincreasing the distances that
people cover with the bicycles.
You know, the batteries last fora hundred kilometers.
So what, 60 miles.
Jed Tabernero (21:25):
the parking situation, I'm assuming there's
a lot of infrastructure in theplaces that you're present.
But is that something you'realso thinking about?
What if employers don't haveplaces to park the bike?
Mikko Ampuja (21:35):
Yeah, we call it the conversion rate.
So how many employees in aspecific workplace actually take
the bicycle through us?
And we can really see that theones with the highest rates are
the ones who have some sort oflike a cycling plan in place.
And that usually covers thingslike bicycle parking.
It also covers things likelocker rooms and showers to be
(21:56):
available as well.
There might be some sort of likebike service.
Place in the office and allthat.
And I went to some of the, likethe gaming and it companies here
in, here in Helsinki, probablygiven the budget, you know,
build your own like cyclingfacilities.
Shikher Bhandary (22:12):
Interesting.
So just on that point, Miko, thestats internally, you have the
data and the insights to tellyou how this platform is
performing, how commuters arebenefiting from this.
Can you reveal some of that?
When a service like cycling orcommuting to work is made more
available to employers, how doesthat change their behaviors?
Mikko Ampuja (22:34):
That's a really good question.
And I think one of the keythings that we really wanted to
know when we got started withthe business cause there were
some people who were kind ofworried that.
Well, you know, what's going tohappen is that the ones who
already cycle, they're justgoing to get a new bicycle.
Cause there's also like a sayingthat the correct number of
bicycles is N plus one, where Nis your current number of
(22:56):
bicycles.
In reality, what happened isthat almost 90 percent of our
customers are actually sayingthat they have increased their,
like cycling through, throughthe Wapos service.
So that's really mind blowingfor us that.
We can really see that we'relike creating like a huge, huge
impact here.
Then the second thing is thatmore than half of our customers
(23:17):
are saying that they alsodriving their cars less.
Shikher Bhandary (23:20):
Two big divergence, cars, less, more
cycling.
Mikko Ampuja (23:25):
So it's, it's, it's really fantastic because it
really proves the point that themission that we're trying to
accomplish here is we are in areally good track.
They're cycling more, they arehealthier and then they are
driving less, which also thenlike reduces the emissions from,
from the commuting.
So I'm, I'm, I'm super happyabout that.
(23:45):
Something to be proud of.
Jed Tabernero (23:46):
So I guess just to give us an idea of the
markets that you're in, and themarkets that you'd want to be
in,
Mikko Ampuja (23:53):
Yeah, so we got to like off to like really good
start in Finland.
That's still our, basically mostof our revenues come from here,
but there's still so much moreroom to grow in, in Finland as
well.
I think we're just gettingstarted in that sense.
We're focusing on the, on themarket entry to, to Sweden right
(24:14):
now.
Sweden is a bit bigger marketthan Finland.
It's a super interesting marketin that sense that, well,
culturally we are kind of likeclose to each other.
Then again, we have a differentcurrency.
We have like different tax ratesand systems.
So it's like really interestingfor us to make sure that it kind
of proves that our technology.
(24:35):
Scales to different marketsituations really well.
afTer that there's like so manyopportunities, for example,
Austria is a, it's like ainteresting market.
France is another one.
All countries are looking intothe same question that how do we
make our mobility moresustainable in the future?
How do we make sure that ourpeople remain healthy?
(24:57):
I I'm.
I'm a hundred percent sure thatwe will see like new countries
entering the same sort of modelin the future as well.
For example, Italy, Spain,Portugal, Norway, so much room
to grow all around Europe aswell.
But then again, if we thinkabout the challenge, it's not
the European challenge, but it'sa global challenge.
Like.
(25:18):
European cities are also quiteold, so changing the
infrastructure is, it takes along time.
Shikher Bhandary (25:24):
Fast growing European cities, literally the
market that you're targetingSweden, I think Stockholm
Gothenburg, Malmo, like they'reall the fastest growing European
cities.
So those are young cities,younger cities, and there's a
lot of population growth outthere, which is being slated for
(25:45):
the next 10, 20
Mikko Ampuja (25:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The, the Swedish cities are notso young per se when you think
about like when they were likeoriginally founded, but they are
growing quite well because ofimmigration.
So there's a lot of like youngerpopulation there.
It, yeah, that was actually, itwas called the Stockholm
phenomena at some point here in,here in Finland where they came
up with the realization that.
(26:07):
You know, the teenagers and youknow, young adults in Stockholm
didn't want to get the driver'slicense anymore.
Jed Tabernero (26:14):
whenever I hear about these kind of European
anecdotes, I think about the US,And in areas in some places that
this might work, because Ialways think it'd be great to
have a solution like that acrosscities.
But New York, for example,making really big efforts in
some neighborhoods to have thatinfrastructure to protect us
when we're actually doing this.
(26:35):
It's actually for me, at leastin my wife, obviously we like
cycling quite a bit.
Her biggest concern is safety.
Being able to bike safely.
And, for us, like that, it justdoesn't look as safe as it could
be.
And the amount of accidents outhere for biking is, it's too
high.
We hear about it almost everyday on the news.
(26:55):
So it's not great.
Mikko Ampuja (26:57):
Yeah.
With bicycles, the, one of thebig problems has been that in
urban planning, it's beeneither, you know, considered
like a, something a bit like apedestrian.
So you put the bicycles wherepeople walk,
Jed Tabernero (27:10):
Yeah.
Mikko Ampuja (27:10):
then you put them like in the middle of the cars.
So if you put the bicycle wherethe people are walking,
obviously everyone who's walkingfeel unsafe and the one who's
cycling doesn't, you know, govery fast.
And then again, if you put thebike in the middle of the cars,
cyclist is going to, you know,freak out.
One of the key things thatpeople are really making, making
(27:32):
right now is that you createlike a separate You know, parts
for, for cyclists, because ifyou go fly above like larger
cities and then you look downand start thinking that how much
of the city space, how much ofthe urban area is actually
dedicated just for cars rightnow, that's really mind blowing.
(27:54):
Well, cities is supposed to befor people, but then you look at
it, like how much is actuallyreserved for cars.
That's super expensive.
Like just think about how muchof the space is actually
reserved for cars.
Jed Tabernero (28:07):
And we're getting to that point.
You're right.
SF itself has this problem ofmaking entire areas, just.
For parking lots and it'sridiculous.
It's parking lots centered city.
And of course it's America.
We've built all of the citiesaround, cars and automobiles.
And so people are very used tothat culture.
But now when I think about theurban planning crisis we're
(28:28):
having in San Francisco, forexample, the running out of
solutions that I think that theygot a point towards something
like cycling, I'll give you anexample.
I just came from Bogota,Colombia two weeks ago.
And every Sunday they have areaswhere they prevent any cars from
going a certain road, and it's avery long road across Bogota.
(28:53):
It's actually also the same laneas the buses and they basically
stop all activity and encourageeverybody to just bike
everywhere on Sundays.
This is every Sunday, by theway, in Bogota, which is crazy
because it seems like they're alittle bit more ahead on the
biking culture than we are.
But.
Just to give you an example ofanother market that's ready for
something like this, to get intocommercialization of, this B2B
(29:16):
to C type model where people areactually thinking of biking as a
mode of transport.
So if you're thinking aboutLatin America, I would look at
Bogota as one of the places toexpand to in the future, because
people are quite used to biking,even if it's a hilly area,
similar to San Francisco.
Mikko Ampuja (29:34):
Yeah.
Thanks for the tip.
I really have to make a note onthat.
I have one of my good friends isactually from Bogota, so I have
to give him a call.
Shikher Bhandary (29:42):
Awesome.
Miko, we want to give you thestage to talk about your
company, your work, give a shoutout to your team, recent
developments and, fundraisingand so on.
Mikko Ampuja (29:54):
You probably heard already heard that I'm.
Pretty excited about ourbusiness and the, and the
mission that we're doing.
The really great thing aboutthis is that we can really, you
know, combine the positive net,net impact with the, and align
it with like revenues and growthand like doing like really good
business, like honestly, I thinkthis is really the, like the
(30:15):
future of business in like verymuch that you need to align
something that creates likepositive net impact and, and the
more revenues you do.
The better is the, like thepositive net impact.
So that's really happening withBob house.
And I really happy that wouldlike the way that it's actually
attracting super talent alsointo the company and really see
(30:36):
that we have like, like mindpeople who are in the company.
I think we have like somethinglike eight nationalities right
now already, because we've beenbuilding this business to scale
globally to scale all aroundEurope and after that,
definitely to, to, to newmarkets as well.
This year we got like a reallynice recognition because we were
chosen from 700 great startups,mobility startups to win the
(31:01):
European Startup Prize forMobility Gold.
This year, I want to give like asuper big thanks to everyone in
the team, because it's beenreally amazing to build this
company together with, with allthose talented people that we
have on board and we are likefundraising.
So anyone interested to investinto sustainable mobility, you
(31:22):
can reach out to me or some ofmy colleagues or Mikko at
Vapaus.
io is my email.
So the focus is right now inFinland and Sweden, but we are
looking.
Beyond that into like thecontinental Europe as well.
Shikher Bhandary (31:34):
Thanks a lot, Miko.
This was fantastic.
And you made a point, businesscan be the best change bringer,
change maker, change creator.
So I'd love to end on that note.
That's how we see our podcast aswell.
We are called things havechanged for a reason because all
of these changes are takingplace and we need to be that
change.
So thanks a lot for coming on.
Mikko Ampuja (31:56):
Thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure.
Jed Tabernero (31:59):
Absolute pleasure.
And you have really admirablegoals very difficult ones as
well.
Kudos to you and your team.
Thank you to the VapAus team fordoing what you do and yeah,
super excited to see you on theglobal stage.
As we close today's episode ofthings have changed podcast.
We'd like to thank Uh, fortaking us through the evolving
landscape of the bicycleindustry.
(32:21):
Did you know that globally, thenumber of trips made by bicycle
exceeds those made by car.
It's a simple reminder of howwidespread and impactful cycling
has become.
This conversation sheds light onthe profound shifts in our
transportation choices.
And there are far reachingimplications.
Thank you for joining us.
(32:43):
And until next time.
Stay curious.
The information and opinionsexpressed in this episode are
for informational purposes only.
And are not intended asfinancial investment or
professional advice.
Always consult with a qualifiedprofessional before making any
decisions based on the conceptprovided.
(33:06):
Neither the podcast, nor iscreators are responsible for any
actions taken as a result oflistening to this episode.
In the busing city centers, where the hum of
engines often drowns out themorning, Birdsong.
A quiet revolution is takingshape.
Mikko Ampuja (00:10):
I used to work in the city center of Helsinki.
Then as a young professional, Igot myself a car but then the
reality of actually, driving inHelsinki was terrible.
Jed Tabernero (00:21):
Think about your daily commute.
The stop and go traffic.
The endless search for parking.
It's a routine, many of us knowtoo well.
Mikko Ampuja (00:30):
I used to take my car and then drive it to my
office.
I.
Realized that, Hey, I'm actuallysitting in the traffic lights
constantly.
Then trying to figure out whereto actually park my car.
One month, I actually, I think Igot something like three or four
parking tickets in two weeks.
Hey, this doesn't make anysense.
Jed Tabernero (00:47):
But what if this routine could be different, more
efficient?
Healthier.
And even kinder to our planet.
Mikko Ampuja (00:56):
I need to get rid of the car.
I started cycling.
And I realized that, Hey, thisis actually faster, I can get to
whatever I want really fast.
And actually research alreadystates that bicycle is usually
the fastest way to go aroundcity centers.
When you have less than fivemiles to cover, it's seriously,
it's super fast.
Not many people actuallyunderstand it before they, they
(01:17):
try it out.
Jed Tabernero (01:17):
Today, we're joined by Mikko.
Um, the founder and former CEOof Uh, company born out of the
streets of Helsinki.
That boss isn't just aboutbikes.
It's about redefining theessence of city community.
Mikko Ampuja (01:36):
The energy that you have, like in the morning,
if you start your day with ahalf an hour on a bicycle,
instead of sitting in thetraffic, sitting in the car,
it's completely different.
You get to the office and you'realready like feeling like, yay.
Hey, I've done like my firstexercise of the day.
Let's bring it on.
Jed Tabernero (01:54):
Mika story is a Testament to a larger shift
happening in the urban centersaround the world.
Cities like Copenhagen.
Amsterdam.
And even the snowy Olu inFinland.
Are embracing and you ethos.
One where bicycles play acentral role in shaping urban
(02:14):
life.
Mikko Ampuja (02:14):
A lot of it definitely comes from urban
planning.
But it takes a long time.
To become a real cycling city.
In addition to Netherlands,Denmark is another like country
full of cyclists.
Really started designing theircities around the fact that cars
shouldn't be prioritized.
So let's gear up, shift ourperspectives and pedal into a
(02:37):
future where every revolutionbrings us closer to a world that
moves differently.
Shikher Bhandary (03:20):
So I wanted to start this call by talking about
my day, right?
My job and it might resemblemany other folks out there who
are listening to this call,right?
I wake up.
I get ready.
I drive out to work because inthe U S you have the scar
culture.
You have to get to work, whichis, five, six miles, and you
have to use the freeways.
(03:41):
You get in your car, you'resitting there and then you end
up at work.
And then you're sitting at thedesk for about eight to ten
hours straight.
In this modern tech drivenworld, our lives are so
sedentary.
Like we are sitting at work, athome, scrolling on your phone,
even in leisure time.
(04:01):
It's like becoming one of thebig concerns out there for
health and well being.
So on that context, wanted tointroduce our incredible guest
today Miko, founder and chiefbusiness development officer at
Worpus.
And this is a really uniqueplatform that not only addresses
our sedentary habits, but alsoaims to solve the practical
(04:25):
aspects of, commuting to work,but in a cost effective and zero
emission manner.
So what is their secretingredient, their secret sauce?
Well, Cycles, Miko, it's greatto have you on the show.
Mikko Ampuja (04:38):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
We're really trying to changesome things here.
So it's a, it's a really goodpodcast to be.
First of all, I used to work asa, like a consultant before did
like a 10 years of managementconsultancy doing market
research and new products andhow to enter markets and
whatnot.
I used to work in the citycenter of Helsinki.
And then as a youngprofessional, I kind of like,
(05:00):
you know, thought that, Hey, Iget to the working life, so I
need to, you know, upgrade mylife.
So I got myself a car and allthat, but but then the reality
of like, actually like drivingin Helsinki was terrible.
I used to take my car and thendrive it to my office.
I.
Realized that, Hey, I'm actuallysitting in the traffic lights
(05:21):
constantly.
Then trying to figure out whereto actually park my car.
One, one month, I actually, Ithink I got something like three
or four parking tickets in, intwo weeks.
I, I came to the conclusionthat, Hey, this doesn't make any
sense.
I need to get rid of the car.
Cause I live in the center.
We have really good, like publictransport and there's like all
the other opportunities as wellavailable.
(05:42):
But yeah, so I ditched the carand then I started cycling.
And I realized that, Hey, thisis actually faster cause I don't
need to look sit in the trafficlights.
I can get to the, like, whateverI want really fast.
And actually research alreadystates that bicycle is usually
the fastest way to go aroundlike city centers.
When you have less than fivemiles to cover, it's seriously,
(06:05):
it's super fast.
Not, not many people actuallyunderstand it before they, they
try it out.
But then again, the, the, thereally like the big thing was
that.
The energy that you have, likein the morning, if you, if you
start your day with a half anhour on a cycle on, on a
bicycle, instead of like sittingin the, in the traffic, sitting
in the car, it's completelydifferent.
(06:27):
You know, you, you get to theoffice and you're already like
feeling like, yay.
Hey, I've done like my firstexercise of the day.
Let's bring it on.
So it's, it's completelydifferent.
So that was, that was the, oneof the big things that I thought
that, Hey, you know, bicyclesare fantastic.
But at that point, I stilldidn't think that it's going to
be like a business for me, but Ithink one of the biggest things
(06:49):
in my life happened in 2017.
And that was when my daughterwas born, knowing that
everything that's happening inthe world with the climate
change and, and, and, andwhatnot, I really started
thinking about that, you know,this.
Little girl is going to ask mesome tough questions in 20 years
that, Hey, dad, what did you doduring the climate crisis?
(07:10):
I couldn't bear the idea that Iwouldn't have like a proper,
proper, like a answer to that.
Like it kind of felt like thatsort of moment when you have to
decide that, Hey, which side ofthe history are you going to be
with the, one of the biggest,biggest battles of Alzheimer's.
So that was actually the momentwhen I decided that, Hey, I'll
(07:31):
quit my consulting job.
and figure out something elsewhere I can actually live, like,
true to my values.
And yeah, there was so much likegood stuff happening with
cycling already at that point.
So I started looking into themarket and realized that, Hey,
so a really good, like consumerproducts, but not so much
happening in the business, thebusiness or like employer point
(07:54):
of view.
So that was really like, likehow we got started with Vapaus.
It's really fantastic right now.
Every morning that I wake up.
I can really think that, Hey,I'm actually like fulfilling the
mission that Hawaii, we startedthe whole company.
So I'm really happy about that.
I'm really excited about that.
Jed Tabernero (08:08):
That's awesome.
And it's a great story forgetting started.
I want to share a little,anecdote on my part, why I
thought this was such a coolbusiness to get into.
So I've changed my name for thiscall to be the husband of a
Dutch woman.
And I think for some people,this will be quite obvious of
why that is, but we haveaudiences from around the world.
(08:30):
In fact, the biggest are outsideof North America.
So I just wanted to share that,the reason why I changed that
name is because cycling is ahuge thing for my wife.
She's grown up with cycling.
I visit the Netherlands everyyear, at least twice or three
times a year.
And I don't get around there viacar.
I get around via cycle and.
(08:52):
Everywhere we go, whether it'sthe park or the mall, we all
cycle to get there's lanes andeverything.
The infrastructure for cyclingis insane.
I think there's a, there's like400 kilometers of cycling lanes
there.
And one really awesome thing Idid in the last summer is go to
the city of Utrecht and Utrechtis a beautiful city.
(09:13):
It's a smaller Amsterdam.
Has a lot of the same stuff.
The canals, the beauty, thebuildings.
One of the things that they hadin Utrecht is the biggest
bicycle parking lot.
I don't know if it's on theplanet.
Mikko Ampuja (09:28):
I think it is.
Jed Tabernero (09:28):
It is, it is in the planet.
Okay.
There's a slot for about.
I think it's 12, 500 bicycles inthis parking lot.
And dude, it's not a joke.
Like you come into it.
It looks like they reallythought about people coming in
and out, there's elevators andplaces.
It's a parking garage.
It's like proper really hugemind boggling for me coming
from, a very urban area, whichis, I'm in Jersey city.
(09:53):
I come to New York every day forwork, mind boggling for me to
see such good infrastructure forcycling.
Because I'm living in a placewhere I could technically cycle
to work, to be honest with you,but it just is so dangerous to
do so I guess, trying to putthis all together, why do you
think this works in places likehere, Europe more, you're
(10:13):
saying, you're seeing a lot ofthings.
For cycling coming up.
And I think that's very uniqueto the European market, although
in some places in America, we'restarting to figure it out, but
if you see somebody with a bikeover here, you assume they bike
on the weekends, you don'tassume they use it to go to
work.
You know what I mean?
So can you shed us a little bitof light on why this works for
the European market?
Mikko Ampuja (10:33):
A lot of it definitely comes from like just
urban planning.
Cause it's, it's not somethingthat, you know, you can just
overnight that decide that, Hey,we'll get rid of all the cars
here and we'll start cycling,but it takes a long time.
Really to become like a realcycling city.
In addition to Netherlands,Denmark is another like country
full of cyclists.
(10:53):
And they've been doing it forlike 50 years, like really
started designing their citiesaround the fact that cars
shouldn't be prioritized.
But car is one part of the, youknow, transportation in this, in
this city.
But we have other ways as well.
They have basically tried tobring bicycles to the same
level.
Maybe in some cases higher thanthe, than the car.
(11:15):
But really, you know, plan thecity from that point of view,
you go to Copenhagen or you goto Amsterdam, you know, the
bicycles are really, you know,up there, you can see them
everywhere.
And so like a huge part of thecommuting in, in, in those
cities, and it's not about theweather.
Because in Finland, for example,one of the biggest cycling
cities in Finland is Oulu, whichis 600 kilometers north from
(11:39):
Helsinki.
So there's like snow all thetime.
Well, not during the summertime,but anyway, during the winter
time.
So people cycle there likethroughout the year, despite the
weather.
In the middle of the snow, itdoesn't matter because the
infrastructure is good.
You have the cycle, I'll callthem highways, and you have the
network.
(11:59):
They have taken it intoconsideration that you have bike
parking and whatnot.
Shikher Bhandary (12:03):
I read this crazy stat that in Finland,
almost 50 to 60 percent of theworking population lives within
six, seven, eight kilometersfrom their work.
So it's they're so close that ifthe infrastructure is already
there, if the culture within thecommunity, within the city is
already there.
(12:25):
Like you mentioned, force ofhabit, everyone's just taking a
bike and reaching work just thesame way, which is great because
it hits like three things,right?
We mentioned it already, it hitsnot just the cost savings, not
just the sustainability aspect,but also your wealth.
There are just so many benefitsto it.
No wonder the solution isworking.
(12:46):
Can you break down what yourplatform offers?
Because I know you mentionedemployers.
I know there is a curation foremployees as well.
Mikko Ampuja (12:54):
In a nutshell, we provide is basically an employee
benefit bike.
So it's a, like a fringe benefitthat can be provided to your, to
your employees in a company.
So the process is quite simpleis that we make like a framework
contract with the, with theemployer that they decided, Hey,
now we want to start supportingcycling in our workplace.
(13:15):
And we want to provide thisbenefit to our employees.
We do the framework contract,and then, you know, you guys
can, for example, go to yourlocal bike shop or online stores
or whatever, and get the bicycleof your dreams.
And then that will be actuallyinvoiced in a way that we
basically sent the invoice tothe employer, and then they will
(13:36):
be reduced from your, from yourpaycheck.
So very similar to like acompany car benefit, but it's a
bicycle.
So it's cheaper, it's moresustainable.
It's better for your health.
Very, very simple.
But obviously the whole networkthat we are, we're operating
here is quite complex because ifyou go into the.
You know, car market, youusually have like a few brands
(13:59):
that you provide, but we can doactually more than 200 different
bicycle brands.
We have hundreds of partnersstores where you can get the
bicycles that we are offering.
We have built the software andthe platform and the product
that then facilitates this wholenetwork that you can go
basically.
Almost go anywhere and getyourself a bicycle through,
(14:20):
through the system.
Shikher Bhandary (14:22):
So anywhere within the market that you're
currently
Mikko Ampuja (14:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We are looking into solutionswhere we could actually like
expand more trap rapidly also,but that's not happening right
now.
It's in the future.
It's like so much likeopportunities in the market
right now.
Shikher Bhandary (14:37):
So that's on the B2B side, Miko.
So on the B2C, you're workingwith consumers.
You're seeing all these e bikes.
Come into the picture wherethey're a lot more expensive.
Cost is a big factor for you andyour mission.
So I'd love to understand howyou're tackling that challenge.
Mikko Ampuja (14:57):
The average price of the bicycle that we are
currently offering is like 3,200 euros.
Shikher Bhandary (15:02):
Wow.
Uh,
Jed Tabernero (15:04):
That's a secondhand car.
Shikher Bhandary (15:06):
that is,
Mikko Ampuja (15:07):
that's the average.
I think the most expensive onethat I've seen was like 12, 000
euros.
It kind of like already likegives you an idea that what's
happening in the bicycle marketis right now is that you know,
20 years ago they were quitesimple things, but now with the
e bikes, all the technology,they're Becoming like really,
really cool gadgets that arekind of like an amazing way.
(15:29):
If you, if you tried cycling 20years before and you try like a
brand new e bike right now,you're ready to have your mind
blown because they just feellike fantastic.
I, I, the first time I triedlike a real high quality e
mountain bike, for example.
It took me, I don't know, likehalf an hour.
I felt like a professionalmountain bike rider when I was
(15:50):
like riding through the forest,like a 20 miles an hour.
That's been happening all thetime that it's at the actual
price of the bikes is, is goingup, not just because of
inflation, but also just becausethat the high tech that is
actually going into thebicycles, but there's basically.
Two simple mechanics or actuallythree, how we try to tackle that
(16:12):
first one is that it's obviouswe provide this sort of like a
leasing service.
So you don't have to come upwith the whole 3000 euros or,
or, or more like upfront, butit's paid in like, just like
monthly installments.
The second thing is there's likea tax incentives happening all
around Europe.
There's like 150 millionemployees work in areas where
(16:34):
there's some sort of like taxincentive in place.
So actually you end up 20 to 35percent less for the bike.
That's a super importantcomponent.
And the third part is that wewanted to build the system from
the, and the business throughthis like a circular economy
foundation.
So we have very heavy focus alsoon used bikes.
(16:55):
So what happens is that weleased out to quite a like
substantial number of bicyclesto our customers and then
something happens.
So you decide that you don'twant to use the bicycle anymore.
So you can basically just returnit to us.
I think we have the biggestsecondhand bicycle store in the
Nordics currently.
That is like in house justbecause
Shikher Bhandary (17:15):
That itself is like a business.
Mikko Ampuja (17:18):
yeah, so we have those like returning bikes,
their secondhand bikes, reallywell kept high quality bikes.
And then we can then again,these, these, those again to new
users.
So all this like creates theplatform where we can actually
provide like really high qualitybikes for like a really
reasonable price for ourcustomers.
Jed Tabernero (17:38):
Do you also own the bikes then?
Wow.
Okay.
So it's actually your inventoryof bikes and you're responsible
for kind of the maintenance andall that stuff as
Mikko Ampuja (17:47):
we have a few ways of financing the fleet.
Some of the bikes are owned bylike an external leasing
partner, but we do have a bit ofhigh quality bikes on our own
balance sheet as well.
Shikher Bhandary (17:58):
that's pretty cool.
Like inventory management aside,both Jed and I have some
experience over there.
I'm just thinking you could justwake up one day and be like, you
know what?
I'm good with the 700 euro bike.
Let me just try out the 12, 000euro bike.
I mean, it's sitting rightthere.
We have, we've ordered extras.
(18:19):
Do those things cross your mindlike it would mine?
Or is it just me?
Mikko Ampuja (18:25):
The bicycle that I ride the most, I think it's
worth like a hundred bucks orsomething like that.
It's my, you know, go tobicycle.
Then again, every time I do golike walk in the, in the, in the
storage room and
Vaupaus_V0-03 (18:38):
the
Mikko Ampuja (18:38):
warehouse, Oh, that's, that's a really cool
one.
I need one of those.
And cause also what's happeningis that.
You know, you've got likebicycle for like a very many
like different situations andneeds.
You have something that isperfect for commuting and then
maybe like an e bike so you can,you know, go to work, get the
bit of exercise and bloodpumping, but you know, you don't
(19:01):
have to sweat because with an ebike you can control how much
effort you actually put into thecommuting.
Then you have the mountain bikesthen you have the cargo bikes.
Which is actually something thatI'm really like looking forward
to getting right now is theCargo bike because I could
actually Take my kid for a rideand then go to the like the
local supermarket to get all thegroceries and everything
Jed Tabernero (19:23):
Let me tell you, my wife, when I told her about
this was juiced, was ecstaticthat, there is such a company
that we're having on the showbecause her and her family,
obviously they love.
They love cycling.
And it's just a great way.
I read this crazy stat thatthere's only a few countries in
Europe that aren't getting moreand more obese.
(19:43):
And the Netherlands is one ofthem, which is, it's
interesting.
But then you think about whatkind of infrastructure they have
and how people get to work andwhat people exactly do.
And it's suddenly becomesobvious.
Yeah.
Everybody commutes to go towork.
The kids at a very young agestart cycling to very far away
high school.
Grade school, whatever it is,and everybody's so used to it.
(20:05):
And I used to think to myself, Igrew up in the Philippines, by
the way, cycling anywhere wouldmean I'm sweaty.
So if I'm cycling anywhere, gotto bring a towel.
Got to, if there's a shower, I'mshowering.
If there's no shower, there's noway you'll get me cycling.
Cause I grew up near theequator.
But now all of a sudden, I justthink about you have prime
ministers, like getting to workon a bike in the Netherlands,
(20:28):
like it's a testament to thefact that you don't have to be
all sweaty.
It's a part of the culture.
Maybe it's something you cancontrol depending on what kind
of bike you have or how distantyou are to work.
But it is now not so far from,the future to be able to just go
by, especially here.
It's so cold in New York city.
I feel like I wouldn't have thatconcern anymore, but it's not
(20:48):
obvious because that's notsomething.
The employers
Mikko Ampuja (20:51):
Yeah, and definitely e bikes are like a
complete game changer in thatthat sense because first of all,
you know You decide how how muchi'm going to push it Like I'm
going to get like a fullexercise.
So I'm just going to like cruiselike easily.
And it, there's like a ton ofresearch on that already that e
bikes are first of all loweringthe threshold of actually
(21:13):
starting cycling, alsoincreasing the distances that
people cover with the bicycles.
You know, the batteries last fora hundred kilometers.
So what, 60 miles.
Jed Tabernero (21:25):
the parking situation, I'm assuming there's
a lot of infrastructure in theplaces that you're present.
But is that something you'realso thinking about?
What if employers don't haveplaces to park the bike?
Mikko Ampuja (21:35):
Yeah, we call it the conversion rate.
So how many employees in aspecific workplace actually take
the bicycle through us?
And we can really see that theones with the highest rates are
the ones who have some sort oflike a cycling plan in place.
And that usually covers thingslike bicycle parking.
It also covers things likelocker rooms and showers to be
(21:56):
available as well.
There might be some sort of likebike service.
Place in the office and allthat.
And I went to some of the, likethe gaming and it companies here
in, here in Helsinki, probablygiven the budget, you know,
build your own like cyclingfacilities.
Shikher Bhandary (22:12):
Interesting.
So just on that point, Miko, thestats internally, you have the
data and the insights to tellyou how this platform is
performing, how commuters arebenefiting from this.
Can you reveal some of that?
When a service like cycling orcommuting to work is made more
available to employers, how doesthat change their behaviors?
Mikko Ampuja (22:34):
That's a really good question.
And I think one of the keythings that we really wanted to
know when we got started withthe business cause there were
some people who were kind ofworried that.
Well, you know, what's going tohappen is that the ones who
already cycle, they're justgoing to get a new bicycle.
Cause there's also like a sayingthat the correct number of
bicycles is N plus one, where Nis your current number of
(22:56):
bicycles.
In reality, what happened isthat almost 90 percent of our
customers are actually sayingthat they have increased their,
like cycling through, throughthe Wapos service.
So that's really mind blowingfor us that.
We can really see that we'relike creating like a huge, huge
impact here.
Then the second thing is thatmore than half of our customers
(23:17):
are saying that they alsodriving their cars less.
Shikher Bhandary (23:20):
Two big divergence, cars, less, more
cycling.
Mikko Ampuja (23:25):
So it's, it's, it's really fantastic because it
really proves the point that themission that we're trying to
accomplish here is we are in areally good track.
They're cycling more, they arehealthier and then they are
driving less, which also thenlike reduces the emissions from,
from the commuting.
So I'm, I'm, I'm super happyabout that.
(23:45):
Something to be proud of.
Jed Tabernero (23:46):
So I guess just to give us an idea of the
markets that you're in, and themarkets that you'd want to be
in,
Mikko Ampuja (23:53):
Yeah, so we got to like off to like really good
start in Finland.
That's still our, basically mostof our revenues come from here,
but there's still so much moreroom to grow in, in Finland as
well.
I think we're just gettingstarted in that sense.
We're focusing on the, on themarket entry to, to Sweden right
(24:14):
now.
Sweden is a bit bigger marketthan Finland.
It's a super interesting marketin that sense that, well,
culturally we are kind of likeclose to each other.
Then again, we have a differentcurrency.
We have like different tax ratesand systems.
So it's like really interestingfor us to make sure that it kind
of proves that our technology.
(24:35):
Scales to different marketsituations really well.
afTer that there's like so manyopportunities, for example,
Austria is a, it's like ainteresting market.
France is another one.
All countries are looking intothe same question that how do we
make our mobility moresustainable in the future?
How do we make sure that ourpeople remain healthy?
(24:57):
I I'm.
I'm a hundred percent sure thatwe will see like new countries
entering the same sort of modelin the future as well.
For example, Italy, Spain,Portugal, Norway, so much room
to grow all around Europe aswell.
But then again, if we thinkabout the challenge, it's not
the European challenge, but it'sa global challenge.
Like.
(25:18):
European cities are also quiteold, so changing the
infrastructure is, it takes along time.
Shikher Bhandary (25:24):
Fast growing European cities, literally the
market that you're targetingSweden, I think Stockholm
Gothenburg, Malmo, like they'reall the fastest growing European
cities.
So those are young cities,younger cities, and there's a
lot of population growth outthere, which is being slated for
(25:45):
the next 10, 20
Mikko Ampuja (25:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The, the Swedish cities are notso young per se when you think
about like when they were likeoriginally founded, but they are
growing quite well because ofimmigration.
So there's a lot of like youngerpopulation there.
It, yeah, that was actually, itwas called the Stockholm
phenomena at some point here in,here in Finland where they came
up with the realization that.
(26:07):
You know, the teenagers and youknow, young adults in Stockholm
didn't want to get the driver'slicense anymore.
Jed Tabernero (26:14):
whenever I hear about these kind of European
anecdotes, I think about the US,And in areas in some places that
this might work, because Ialways think it'd be great to
have a solution like that acrosscities.
But New York, for example,making really big efforts in
some neighborhoods to have thatinfrastructure to protect us
when we're actually doing this.
(26:35):
It's actually for me, at leastin my wife, obviously we like
cycling quite a bit.
Her biggest concern is safety.
Being able to bike safely.
And, for us, like that, it justdoesn't look as safe as it could
be.
And the amount of accidents outhere for biking is, it's too
high.
We hear about it almost everyday on the news.
(26:55):
So it's not great.
Mikko Ampuja (26:57):
Yeah.
With bicycles, the, one of thebig problems has been that in
urban planning, it's beeneither, you know, considered
like a, something a bit like apedestrian.
So you put the bicycles wherepeople walk,
Jed Tabernero (27:10):
Yeah.
Mikko Ampuja (27:10):
then you put them like in the middle of the cars.
So if you put the bicycle wherethe people are walking,
obviously everyone who's walkingfeel unsafe and the one who's
cycling doesn't, you know, govery fast.
And then again, if you put thebike in the middle of the cars,
cyclist is going to, you know,freak out.
One of the key things thatpeople are really making, making
(27:32):
right now is that you createlike a separate You know, parts
for, for cyclists, because ifyou go fly above like larger
cities and then you look downand start thinking that how much
of the city space, how much ofthe urban area is actually
dedicated just for cars rightnow, that's really mind blowing.
(27:54):
Well, cities is supposed to befor people, but then you look at
it, like how much is actuallyreserved for cars.
That's super expensive.
Like just think about how muchof the space is actually
reserved for cars.
Jed Tabernero (28:07):
And we're getting to that point.
You're right.
SF itself has this problem ofmaking entire areas, just.
For parking lots and it'sridiculous.
It's parking lots centered city.
And of course it's America.
We've built all of the citiesaround, cars and automobiles.
And so people are very used tothat culture.
But now when I think about theurban planning crisis we're
(28:28):
having in San Francisco, forexample, the running out of
solutions that I think that theygot a point towards something
like cycling, I'll give you anexample.
I just came from Bogota,Colombia two weeks ago.
And every Sunday they have areaswhere they prevent any cars from
going a certain road, and it's avery long road across Bogota.
(28:53):
It's actually also the same laneas the buses and they basically
stop all activity and encourageeverybody to just bike
everywhere on Sundays.
This is every Sunday, by theway, in Bogota, which is crazy
because it seems like they're alittle bit more ahead on the
biking culture than we are.
But.
Just to give you an example ofanother market that's ready for
something like this, to get intocommercialization of, this B2B
(29:16):
to C type model where people areactually thinking of biking as a
mode of transport.
So if you're thinking aboutLatin America, I would look at
Bogota as one of the places toexpand to in the future, because
people are quite used to biking,even if it's a hilly area,
similar to San Francisco.
Mikko Ampuja (29:34):
Yeah.
Thanks for the tip.
I really have to make a note onthat.
I have one of my good friends isactually from Bogota, so I have
to give him a call.
Shikher Bhandary (29:42):
Awesome.
Miko, we want to give you thestage to talk about your
company, your work, give a shoutout to your team, recent
developments and, fundraisingand so on.
Mikko Ampuja (29:54):
You probably heard already heard that I'm.
Pretty excited about ourbusiness and the, and the
mission that we're doing.
The really great thing aboutthis is that we can really, you
know, combine the positive net,net impact with the, and align
it with like revenues and growthand like doing like really good
business, like honestly, I thinkthis is really the, like the
(30:15):
future of business in like verymuch that you need to align
something that creates likepositive net impact and, and the
more revenues you do.
The better is the, like thepositive net impact.
So that's really happening withBob house.
And I really happy that wouldlike the way that it's actually
attracting super talent alsointo the company and really see
(30:36):
that we have like, like mindpeople who are in the company.
I think we have like somethinglike eight nationalities right
now already, because we've beenbuilding this business to scale
globally to scale all aroundEurope and after that,
definitely to, to, to newmarkets as well.
This year we got like a reallynice recognition because we were
chosen from 700 great startups,mobility startups to win the
(31:01):
European Startup Prize forMobility Gold.
This year, I want to give like asuper big thanks to everyone in
the team, because it's beenreally amazing to build this
company together with, with allthose talented people that we
have on board and we are likefundraising.
So anyone interested to investinto sustainable mobility, you
(31:22):
can reach out to me or some ofmy colleagues or Mikko at
Vapaus.
io is my email.
So the focus is right now inFinland and Sweden, but we are
looking.
Beyond that into like thecontinental Europe as well.
Shikher Bhandary (31:34):
Thanks a lot, Miko.
This was fantastic.
And you made a point, businesscan be the best change bringer,
change maker, change creator.
So I'd love to end on that note.
That's how we see our podcast aswell.
We are called things havechanged for a reason because all
of these changes are takingplace and we need to be that
change.
So thanks a lot for coming on.
Mikko Ampuja (31:56):
Thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure.
Jed Tabernero (31:59):
Absolute pleasure.
And you have really admirablegoals very difficult ones as
well.
Kudos to you and your team.
Thank you to the VapAus team fordoing what you do and yeah,
super excited to see you on theglobal stage.
As we close today's episode ofthings have changed podcast.
We'd like to thank Uh, fortaking us through the evolving
landscape of the bicycleindustry.
(32:21):
Did you know that globally, thenumber of trips made by bicycle
exceeds those made by car.
It's a simple reminder of howwidespread and impactful cycling
has become.
This conversation sheds light onthe profound shifts in our
transportation choices.
And there are far reachingimplications.
Thank you for joining us.
(32:43):
And until next time.
Stay curious.
The information and opinionsexpressed in this episode are
for informational purposes only.
And are not intended asfinancial investment or
professional advice.
Always consult with a qualifiedprofessional before making any
decisions based on the conceptprovided.
(33:06):
Neither the podcast, nor iscreators are responsible for any
actions taken as a result oflistening to this episode.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.