Roadside Vanishings, Real Timelines

Send us a text

A simple errand, a stamped receipt at 3:17 p.m., and a car left on US 71 with the keys still in the ignition. We walk through the last verified hours of 18-year-old Dana Stidham and sort what’s true from what’s been repeated for decades. No theatrics—just timestamps, locations, and choices that still demand answers: the unfixed flat, the Omni facing the wrong way, and a seven-week silence broken by a hunter who waited before calling his discovery in.

We unpack why those details matter in a rural 1989 Bella Vista—before cell phones, before robust DNA workflows, and before trails cut through deep Ozark terrain. We look at early suspects and fragile alibis, including a boyfriend whose grief blurred lines but not evidence, and we press on the questions that keep resurfacing: Was the tire sabotaged? Did someone move the Omni to misdirect the search? What did investigators document about the tire, trunk, and missing items that could signal a souvenir? Along the way, we separate rumor from record on “serial killer” talk in the Ozarks and focus on what the case can actually sustain.

We also examine behavior that sets off alarms—the delayed call from the man who found remains—and consider what modern profiling says about witness conduct versus narrative control, without leaping past the facts. Then we outline our next steps: FOIA requests for the officer sighting, tire photos, and evidence inventories; outreach to Benton County; and an open invitation for locals who remember that stretch of US 71 to come forward with specifics. If you drove those roads, worked those shifts, or owned a similar pickup, your memory might tighten the timeline.

If this case gripped you, share the episode with someone who knows northwest Arkansas, subscribe for updates as records come in, and leave a review with the one question you want answered most. Your perspective could nudge a detail out of the past and into the file that finally moves.

 “Thank you for listening to Things I Want to Know.
You want these stories, and we want to bring them to you — so hit the support link and keep this circus, and the mics, alive.
Then do us a favor and rate and subscribe; it helps the show find more people like you — the ones who like their mysteries real and their storytellers unfiltered.
And if you want to wear a little of this madness, grab some Andrea-approved gear at paulgnewton.com.
We make t

Support the show

Things I Want To Know
Where two stubborn humans poke the darkness with a stick and hope it blinks first. If you know something about a case, report it to the actual police before you come knocking on our door. After that, sure, tell us. We’re already in too deep anyway.

If you enjoy the show, or you just like supporting people who refuse to shut up, grab some merch at PaulGNewton.com. It keeps the lights on and the caffeine flowing.

And when your curiosity needs a breather from all the murder, jump over to my other show, Paul G’s Corner, where history proves that saying it can’t happen here usually means it already did.

Get Bad Ass Merch!

Episode Transcript

Paul G (00:06):
It's the summer of 1989.
Bella Vista, Arkansas, backwhen it wasn't golf courses and
gated neighborhoods, but pineforest, new roads, and long
quiet stretches of US 71.
A 19-year-old woman named DanaStidham runs a quick errand for
her dad, a grocery run thatshould have taken 15 minutes.

(00:28):
She buys cat food, a pack ofcigarettes, some other small
things at the Phillips FoodCenter right off 71.
A receipt reads 3.17 p.m.
That's the last confirmedmoment of her life.
Sometime after that, amotorist, or maybe a police

(00:49):
officer, reports seeing a smallgray Dodge Omni pulled over near
Wellington Road.
Behind it, a pickup truck, aman kneeling.
The kind of scene you pass onthe highway without thinking.
Maybe he's fixing a flat.
Maybe someone's helping.
By the next morning, her car isstill there.

(01:10):
Keys in the ignition, groceriesuntouched on the passenger
seat.
The left rear tire is stillflat, but there's no signs of
Dana.
For seven weeks, nothing.
Then on September 16th, a manout squirrel hunting in the
thick woods near Beale Lanefinds human remains in a dry

(01:32):
creek bed.
But he doesn't call it in rightaway.
And when he does, the Bonnie isidentified as Dana Steadman.
Cause of death, homicide,trauma.
In this episode, we're going towalk through that day, not the

(01:54):
legends, not the rumors, thereal timeline, the real cases.
Where Dana went, who saw her,and how quiet, how a quiet
errand turned into one ofArkansas's most haunting
unsolved mysteries.
So Andrea, we've been workingon this pretty hard.

(02:25):
I've actually built out whatthey call a murder book.
I kind of like the way theycall it a murder book, though.

Andrea (02:32):
Yeah, a murder book, but it sounds, of course, obviously
a murder book, it's verymorbid, but um it's kind of the
timeline of everything you canfind out on a this kind of
situation.

Paul G (02:42):
Well, and we haven't we're going off public records
at this moment.

Andrea (02:45):
Yes, newspapers got dot com.
We love you.

Paul G (02:48):
I don't know about that.
You can get a lot from thatlove hate relationship with me.

Andrea (02:52):
Yeah.

Paul G (02:53):
I think.
Um but we've I've done my FOIArequest.

Andrea (02:57):
Yeah, you have.

Paul G (02:59):
And I'm still trying to get more information.
I've found a bunch of otherpodcasts.
There's this one guy who writesGod, his podcast is so hard to
listen to.

Andrea (03:12):
Yeah, he's been in a lot of stuff though.
He's been in like, I recognizehim from Deadly Women, I
recognize him from a lot ofother stuff.
He's a writer, so he's veryflamboyant, which that's his
that's what he does.

Paul G (03:23):
There's too much flourish.
Get to the point.

Andrea (03:25):
Yeah, but you and I are get to the point, people.
Not everybody is.
Yeah.

Paul G (03:29):
But uh, so I've done my foyer request.
I've I put in a request to theBenton County Sheriff because
they're just down the road.
I can go down there if I haveto.
And uh what we do our nextsteps, or we'll go over that in
the end, what our next stepsare, but uh the sheriff
department's supposed to getback with me.
They have a lady who you'veseen.
If you've done research on thiscase, or if you listen to other

(03:52):
podcasts, you'll hear hertalking.
Which probab I hope it didn'tsour her on talking to people
like us.

Andrea (03:59):
I hope not.
But I mean, all we want to dois like get cases out there from
this part of the world inArkansas that nobody really
talks about.
I mean, there's like I alwaysjoke with Paul, like, we're like
the armpit of probably liketrue prime crime podcasts,
because you know, uh it's hardto get information, which you
know, police departments havetheir own reasoning and that's

(04:19):
important, but I just wish thatwe were covered more.

Paul G (04:24):
Well, and there's so many people that have died
mysteriously, and nobody knowswhy.

Andrea (04:30):
I mean, that's true, it's all throughout the US.

Paul G (04:32):
But I guess 350 million of us in the continental United
States.
So true.

Andrea (04:36):
I guess this case like kind of resonated with me a
touch because I have kids incollege.
I have a daughter that's fixinggraduate high school, and I
could just easily ask her to runup the road and go get dog food
for me, and she doesn't comeback.
That's the thing I was like,it's I guess it feels more.

Paul G (04:51):
Is that why you're constantly asking me to go to
the store?

Andrea (04:54):
No.
You'd fight them off.

Paul G (04:57):
Dang it, he came back.

Andrea (04:59):
But like, you know, uh my oldest daughter's in college,
my middle daughter's fixing tograduate high school this year.
It's like they're going off inthe world and they do little
errands, and you know, they mayjust be innocent and somebody
pulls over and helps them.
You don't know if they're gonnahelp you or they have something
else in mind.
And I don't know uh, you know,if they're studious enough to

(05:22):
know how to take care ofthemselves in that situation.

Paul G (05:26):
I would think that they've I mean, I don't know.
Maybe it's a maybe for me.
I guess it's a mom.
I know these kids, and I'mlike, maybe.

Andrea (05:35):
You always say if someone take Emily, they'd bring
her back.

Paul G (05:38):
Yeah, no, they'd return in.
No, thank you.

Andrea (05:41):
But you know, I guess for me, these kind of cases,
like even when I mean in 89 Iwas what, and probably in junior
high?
I don't know.

Paul G (05:49):
I was in junior high, probably.
I was just I was about to betenth grader.
So in in Arkansas, the way ourschools were made, uh, and the
way it was put together in the80s and 90s and mid-90s, I think
they changed this.
Maybe it was late 90s.
When we did first through sixthin elementary school, then
seven, eighth, and ninth injunior high.

(06:11):
And that's not middle school.
Middle school, I think it thatcan it takes the tenth graders
in, I think.

Andrea (06:17):
I don't know.
We we called it junior high.
That's what it was called.
I mean, 10th, 11th, 12th washigh school.
So if you were like in ninthgrade, even though technically
some people considered you highschool, you were the top of
junior high.

Paul G (06:28):
So you weren't in high school yet.

Andrea (06:30):
So I mean it's they've changed that now.

Paul G (06:32):
Um, so well, it's not always changed either, because
they still have central andsouthwest junior high.

Andrea (06:38):
Yeah, yeah.

Paul G (06:39):
In Springdale.
So who knows?
I don't know what the heckthey're doing.
Just you know, make it all thesame, but forget making it try
and make quit forget making ithard.
There.
That was hard to say.

Andrea (06:49):
So tell us about this case and we'll get going.

Paul G (06:51):
Well, um, so if you're interested, it's Arkansas State
Police Cold Case 72-771-89.
Yes, we're gonna get in theweeds.

Andrea (07:01):
That's exactly what we could get information off.
Yes.

Paul G (07:05):
Yeah.

Andrea (07:05):
Which we get sort of some things are not gonna tell
us from it's not public recordbecause I get that.

Paul G (07:11):
Yeah.
Well, Dana, she was uh Stedham,Stedham.
She is 18, was 18 years old.
And a recent Gravit High Schoolgraduate, Gravit's really far
away from Bella Vista.

Andrea (07:25):
That's true.

Paul G (07:25):
Especially then.
The city limits have changed.
But at the time, Bella Vistaand Gravit didn't butt up.

Andrea (07:31):
But you know, think about it now.
She graduated from there.
They probably like in oursituation, like Emily, we moved
from where we were to here now.
So maybe her family up andmoved to Centerton whenever she
got out of high school.

Paul G (07:42):
So supposedly she re shef she supposedly had a low
risk type life.

unknown (07:48):
Yeah.

Paul G (07:48):
Right?
She's not out doing that weknow of.
Yeah.
Here's the thing one thing weneed to definitely tell people
right now is we always, always,always, always say to keep the
facts in in mind, and wheneverwe get off the facts and start
guessing, speculating, no one'sthought about these things but

(08:09):
us.

Andrea (08:10):
Yeah, it's just our thoughts, our ideas, what's
coming to mind, what I guessmakes us clue in on things.

Paul G (08:16):
We're not we're not law enforcement, we're not but we
are highly I wouldn't say highlyeducated, but I'm pretty sure
that you and between you and I,we know enough that we could
probably hold our own in acollege course.

Andrea (08:31):
Yeah, I've been to college, yeah.

Paul G (08:34):
You've been to college?

Andrea (08:35):
Yeah, and you you can hold yourself in college very
well.

Paul G (08:37):
Yeah.
Um I do a lot of research intothe human condition, psychology.

Andrea (08:42):
No, that's your thing.

Paul G (08:44):
It's a hobby.

Andrea (08:45):
Yeah, and my I'm a nurse by background.

Paul G (08:48):
So I d I know how it's like if you've seen the the TV
show Mindhunter on Netflix.

Andrea (08:54):
Mindhunter's amazing, it's a good show.

Paul G (08:56):
I'm sure everybody that has Netflix has seen it.
Um but that's a story about theguys who invented profiling and
how to hunt down serial serialkillers and regular killers,
just one-offs as well.
Yes.
They did a lot of research intothis.
They went and interviewed a lotof people who killed other

(09:17):
people and figured out w spenttime figuring it out.
And then he consol consolidatedit into many books, and now
it's the cornerstone, notnecessarily what they use today.

Andrea (09:29):
But it's still the cornerstone, meaning it's back
to basics if you want to getdown to it.

Paul G (09:33):
Everything's built on top of the the these guys.
And I've done a lot of researchinto that, and some of that
stuff's just to me, it's justintuitive.
I I'm like, why didn't anybodythink about this before?
You know?

Andrea (09:46):
Yeah.

Paul G (09:47):
What I mean, some of these things that we go through
when we're trying to figure outthe mind of someone who's doing
bad things, it's like, duh.

Andrea (09:56):
Yeah, you have to get inside their head at least
somewhat to understand, which isI think what they did.

Paul G (10:02):
Yeah, and that's so that's kind of what we're gonna
kind of do a little bit, Ithink.

Andrea (10:06):
Yeah, but I want everyone to note as a
disclaimer, you know, we're notwe're not law enforcement, so
and we're not licensedprofessionals.
So it's just our ideas andthoughts based upon the evidence
we glean from what we can get ahold of.

Paul G (10:18):
I'm a licensed joker.
That's probably true.
No.
Anyway, um, and then I guessthey I guess it says I I assume
that they moved to Centerton, orat least her father might have
been living.
She was living in Centertonwith her brother and another
person.
That's right.

Andrea (10:36):
Yeah, her brother, she moved in with her brother and a
couple of her friends.

Paul G (10:39):
She drove a 1984 Dodge Omni.
Have you seen what that lookslike?
That is such a junk.

Andrea (10:45):
I come on, I drove a Dodge Reliant K.
I can't, I can't, I can'targue.

Paul G (10:51):
I drove Boss Hogg's car in high school.

Andrea (10:53):
But you know, I mean, your first car 18, you think
you're like king and queen ofthe world, you know?
So um, I drove that thing untilit literally fell apart.
Oh, it kind of looks we'repulling it up right now.

Paul G (11:03):
It looks like an escort.
Basically, it looks like anescort.
It's a little smaller than mycar.
It's it's an escort.

Andrea (11:10):
But you know, hey, when you're 18 and you got a car, you
don't care.

Paul G (11:13):
I like that blue on that one.

Andrea (11:15):
Anyway, you don't care if it, you know, looks like crap
for lack of a better term, it'syour car.

Paul G (11:19):
So she drove her little Omni down to the grocery store
at Phillips Food Center, whichis now a harps from what I
gather.

Andrea (11:26):
Okay.
Harps is very common inNorthwest Arkansas.
It's kind of like your hometowngrocery store, I guess you can
kind of equate it to.

Paul G (11:33):
Yeah.
Um, and about 317, now we knowthat she was in the store at
317.
At least that's when thepurchase was made because she
had a receipt on her in the bag.

Andrea (11:43):
Yeah.

Paul G (11:44):
Of the stuff she bought, which is probably paper bags
back then.

Andrea (11:47):
Yeah.

Paul G (11:48):
And not plastic, because Walmart didn't start using
those.
They're the first one to usethem.
They didn't start using thoseuntil what, 2000?

Andrea (11:55):
Oh God, I don't even know.
I all I can remember is maybeninety-eight.
Uh paper and then plastic mostof my adult life.

Paul G (12:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So they probably use the paperones.
Um and I they say that anofficer reports a pickup truck
being uh behind a small car witha man kneeling near the left
rear tire on US 71 inWellington, but there's no you
can't find that document.

Andrea (12:25):
No, we found it in newspapers.com, but that could
be easily misconstrued.
Yeah, and or you know, notcompletely 100% correct.

Paul G (12:33):
It doesn't, it doesn't exist in hard copy that we can
find.

Andrea (12:36):
No, we can find no.
And we look we dug.

Paul G (12:39):
So about, I don't know, what it was probably 10 minutes
later.

Andrea (12:45):
Yeah.

Paul G (12:45):
Yeah, about 10 minutes later, he sees this car and
she's and somebody's helping herchange a flat.

Andrea (12:51):
Which we all see this every day.
I mean, we drive in on thehighways and the roads, and we
see some nice goods.
Yeah, good Samaritan pull overwhich which what you want
someone to help you.
And this is the day before cellphones.
So if you're out in the middleof a highway where you have to
get out of the car and walk, andsomebody comes up and is like,
hey, I'll help you, you're like,Thank you.

Paul G (13:10):
I mean, you don't especially if you're a lady.

Andrea (13:12):
Yeah, you don't think about like sinister stuff like
this, especially in 89.

Paul G (13:15):
It's you know, those tires weigh about 85 to 200 85
to 100 pounds.

Andrea (13:19):
Yeah, they're hard to lift.
I've tried, but I've tried itmyself and they're very hard.
I mean, and I I I work out andit's still kind of hard for me.
Yeah, I couldn't change my owntire.
I'm not strong enough.

Paul G (13:28):
You could too.
Just mostly out of spite, you'dget that tire change.
You'd be so mad.

Andrea (13:34):
Probably.
This is probably true.

Paul G (13:36):
I'm going to do it, damn it.
So she disappears.
They last time that's the lasttime they saw the car until the
next morning when someonereported it as abandoned on the
side of the road.

Andrea (13:48):
Now, here's my thing.
It just just came to me.
Like, okay, she's running anerrand for her father, correct?
Yeah.
Um, supposedly.
She doesn't come back.
Um did her parents call thepolice?
Like in those days, though,wasn't it like you have to have
24 to 48 hours before they'll doanything?
She's a legal adult at 18.

Paul G (14:05):
That's true.
It could it be said that that'snormal for her to be gone
overnight?
I mean, maybe that's why theydidn't call.
I mean, we said we don't knowthese things.

Andrea (14:15):
We don't know.
There's no reports or nothing.
The family's not saying that.
And that's that's fine.
We're not passing any blame,but you know, uh I've we've
listened, all of us havelistened to enough true crime to
know that like we listened tomore than usual.
Yeah, that's probably true.
That, you know, we can't reportanything until they're gone for
you know 24 to 48 hours, andshe's 18 years old and an adult.

Paul G (14:34):
But cops can choose to look for you now if they wanted
to.
It's not that strict of apolicy.

Andrea (14:39):
But back then it seemed like nobody took anything
seriously, which is very sadbecause time was lost in this
situation.

Paul G (14:47):
Well, I don't know why she wasn't reported missing.
Maybe she would just go on,maybe she wouldn't run an iron
for her father, because we'regetting that from podcasts and
and and reports.
But is that the truth?

Andrea (15:01):
Oh, who knows?
Maybe she's getting cat foodfor herself.
I mean, we don't know.

Paul G (15:05):
Cigarettes, probably.

Andrea (15:06):
Yeah.
I mean a lot of speculationbehind that, but it makes me
think like nothing was reallyreported and nothing that we
could find of anybody that waslike, where is she at?
Yeah.
But those are also the days likenow somebody goes missing, and
depending upon where you're atin the world, it's all over like
TV and Facebook and all that.

Paul G (15:24):
Back then it was what, newspapers and they didn't even
they barely had amber alertsback then.

Andrea (15:28):
Yeah, yeah.

Paul G (15:30):
So yeah, nobody knew.
And it's all landline, so inthe even have caller ID.

Andrea (15:36):
Yeah, so it's no cell phones.
So her and her situation, she'slike, I don't know, I can't
change a tire, I'm stuck here.
Either get out and walk, or oh,this nice person's gonna help
me.

Paul G (15:46):
So they found the car the next morning.
Um, it was unlocked, keys inignition, groceries left inside,
the tire's still flat, and it'sfacing the wrong way.
Like she's going back to thestore.

Andrea (16:01):
Which I find that odd.

Paul G (16:03):
Yeah.
Very strange.

Andrea (16:04):
Which read that in some newspaper reports of the police
said that they thought that wasodd.
Which um the only thing I couldthink of is maybe she got like,
you know, how you're not payingattention and you're driving,
you're like, I miss my exit, andyou have to go all the way
around earthquake.

Paul G (16:18):
This is a two-lane road out in the country.
You know what those look likebecause we drive them all the
time.
There's no reason for aturnaround because you wouldn't
miss an exit.
That's true.
That's true.

Andrea (16:26):
This is rural.
I'm just thinking the way I'mpicturing the way Bella Vista is
now.
I don't know what it was likein 89.
I was a kid, but it's not likeit is now where you have that
dividing down the highway.

Paul G (16:36):
Well, it was uh semi-rule.

Andrea (16:40):
Yeah.

Paul G (16:41):
Uh there were some new housing developments starting to
be built.
But it's it what Bella Vistais, Bella Vista is a retirement
community.

Andrea (16:49):
In those days it highly was.
Now it's kind of like it'smixed.

Paul G (16:53):
It's mixed, yeah.
But back then, they were youhad to be fit 60 plus to even
buy a lot.

Andrea (17:01):
That's probably true, yeah.

Paul G (17:02):
It is, it definitely is.
It was a retirement communitylocked in.
It didn't have a policestation, didn't it barely had a
fire department.

Andrea (17:09):
Yeah, I lived there when I was my son was little and
they didn't even like us livingout there because we weren't 65,
and it was more of anopportunity then than you know
that you know that because itwasn't 89.

Paul G (17:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And basically it's it's OzarkMountain terrain.
It's rough.
There's low creeks and highhills and bluffs, and it's
really hard to navigate thatarea.
And so that's why if you don'tstay on the road, you're gonna
you're either gonna get lost oryou're gonna have to hike a long

(17:43):
way to get to where you can getout of the culvert that you're
in.

Andrea (17:46):
Yeah, it was way more like that now than it is, you
know, then than it is now.

Paul G (17:50):
Now there's more trails.
They got the trail system thatgoes all the way through
northwest Arkansas, all the wayup the Missouri border now.

Andrea (17:55):
Yeah, that back then it was just like the very rural,
very, you know.

Paul G (17:59):
Yeah, the only trails that were out there were deer
trails at that time.

Andrea (18:02):
Yeah, exactly.

Paul G (18:04):
It was bad.
Um, so I guess they got thecar, they towed it off.
I'm supposing.
I don't see why they'd leave itthere.

Andrea (18:13):
No, they wouldn't leave it there.

Paul G (18:15):
Especially if it's been reported abandoned with the keys
in it.
The cops are probably.

Andrea (18:19):
Which that's odd because if you're gonna like somebody
comes up and's like, hey, I'mgonna take you to XYZ station so
you can call somebody, you takeyour keys.
You would you would take yourpurse, you would take your
stuff.

Paul G (18:32):
Yeah, at least your keys.
I mean, so and your cigarettestoo.

Andrea (18:36):
Yeah.

Paul G (18:36):
If she's you always take, I mean, if she's got she
bought cigarettes, I'm assumingshe smokes cigarettes, you don't
leave them in the car becauseyou're gonna want one.

Andrea (18:45):
You wouldn't leave that there.
So that's odd.
I think that's kind of odd.

Paul G (18:48):
No.
So about two days go by whenthis dude reports no, I'm sorry,
I take that back.
It was uh three months, wasn'tit?
Seven weeks?

Andrea (18:58):
It was in September she was discovered.

Paul G (19:01):
Yeah.
Seven weeks later.

Andrea (19:05):
Yeah, September 16th of 89.

Paul G (19:07):
Yeah.
She was she was reported thatthere was a body in the culvert.

Andrea (19:12):
Yeah, and the guy that reported her.

Paul G (19:14):
He waited a day or longer to even make the phone
call.

Andrea (19:17):
He didn't want to ruin his squirrel hunting.

Paul G (19:20):
Yeah, it's reported.
Uh we've got a newspaperclipping that from where was it?

Andrea (19:25):
Oh, it was um, I want to say it was out of it was out of
New York.
Um, that basically um hunterdoesn't let bodies spoil day.

Paul G (19:35):
Yeah.

Andrea (19:36):
So instead of reporting her or the body, most normal
people, I think, were crap.

Paul G (19:42):
There's somebody dead down there in the hollow.
I guess we better call someone.

Andrea (19:46):
I would be like, oh god, somebody's dead.
I'm not touching nothing.

Paul G (19:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now these days don't touchanything.

Andrea (19:52):
But I mean, I guess better get blamed for it.
Back then, uh, there was noDNA.

Paul G (19:56):
There was no like It was just beginning with DNA.

Andrea (19:59):
Probably.
But I mean, I would like tothink that humanity in what we
are, we'd be like, oh my god,somebody's died.
This is skeletal remains.
I need to get out of here and Ineed to tell somebody.
Not oh, I'm worried about mysquirrels.

Paul G (20:12):
Yeah.
So he waited to tell them.
Um, but where they found uhfound her was in a dry creek
bed, uh, really far down in thein the in a little gulver
culvert kind of thing.

Andrea (20:25):
Yeah, and when I looked up the one of the newspapers
mentioned she was on highway, Iwant to say like 340 and 94,
which that means nothing youguys don't live around Arkansas.
But when I looked it up,because we're not that far from
where this is, honestly, whichis kind of the creepy part,
because even now, when you goout there, I want to say if it's
the correct thing thatnewspapers are reporting,

(20:46):
there's a a water tower there,and even now it's still rural.

Paul G (20:50):
Yeah, yeah, it takes a lot to get back there.
That's for dang sure.

Andrea (20:55):
I mean, so it's like uh I don't know.
The first thing that goes offin my head is like this has to
be somebody that knows the area.
Maybe, maybe, but I don't know,man.
You you know the area, yougotta be local back then to know
all those trails.

Paul G (21:14):
Even, I mean, now you could probably drive her, and we
have she was found six milesaway from her car.

Andrea (21:18):
Yeah, all yeah, six miles away from her car.
So what did they do?
Like she's by her road by hercar, she's thinking this
person's gonna help her, andwhat do they do?
What how do they get her in thecar?

Paul G (21:28):
Did they kill her six miles up the road closer to the
site?
Or did they kill her where thecar is?
I think it's possible to coverup the body, to cover up the
finding of the body.
The person that killed her puther body in the culvert, right?

Andrea (21:48):
Yeah.

Paul G (21:48):
Got in her car and drove it back down the road so they
would search in the wrong place.

Andrea (21:53):
I mean, that's a possibility or that makes sense
to me.
Or they're like uh, I don'tknow, knife, weapon, whatever
make you get in a car um inthose days, and then it had a
flat.
But she's getting in his car,and she I mean, six miles is a
lot for anybody to hike withsomeone that they may not be
able to control.

Paul G (22:12):
Six miles at 35 miles an hour.
It's a good 10-minute drive.

Andrea (22:16):
Which we've taken that back way from Bella Vesta to
home, and it's about 10 minutes.

Paul G (22:21):
Yeah.
That's about 15 if you take itthe whole way.

Andrea (22:24):
Yeah, the whole way.

Paul G (22:25):
So I I'm thinking, I'm thinking that he moved the car.
Sounds like he moved the car,but I don't know because we
haven't got been able to get thefoyer request in.

Andrea (22:34):
I don't know.
I think he got her in theresomehow promising her some way
of calling for help.
And um, or oh, honey, maybe shedidn't have a spare in her car.
I mean, you know, and you know,hey, honey, I will take or
whatever, you know, however theyget you in the car.
I'm gonna drive you up the roadand you can call your dad or
whatever, and they pull a knifeor something on her and she's
subdued and she's at his will.

(22:54):
We're assuming it's a he.
More than likely it's a he, butit could be a she, guys.
Let's just be realistic.
But we're not we're saying hebecause that's probably
statistically more of acorrectness.

Paul G (23:06):
Yes.

Andrea (23:06):
We're not trying to like, you know, anybody out
there saying you're saying he.
Um it could be a woman.
We understand that, but we'rejust being like, What's you
know?
What we think.

Paul G (23:15):
I'm missing a piece in my book here.

Andrea (23:17):
Oh, okay.

Paul G (23:17):
So what I'm gonna do.
So the first thing they lookedat was the boyfriend.

Andrea (23:23):
Oh yes, this poor, poor man.
Uh let me pull this up here.

Paul G (23:28):
Uh, because we have so uh obviously the first place you
go whenever somebody getskilled is family and friends.

Andrea (23:35):
Oh, yeah, that's the first people you look at.

Paul G (23:36):
Because they're usually, seriously, they're usually the
people who kill uh people isyour family or friends.
Nice, isn't it?

Andrea (23:44):
It was just sad, but if you gotta work your you know,
work inside out, so to speak.
But this poor soul, poor guy,um was he they dated?

Paul G (23:53):
What was um well, I think there's two was there two
guys involved in this?

Andrea (23:58):
Uh Paul loves his pad.
I love paper guys.
Um Michael Earl McMillan.

Paul G (24:06):
Yeah, now did they date or was he just a stalker?

Andrea (24:10):
I got reports from newspapers that they dated and
that they were good friends fromGravit High School.

Paul G (24:17):
Now, one thing we've you know, when they found her, she
was completely decomposed.

Andrea (24:21):
That's correct.

Paul G (24:22):
She sat in the hundred degree heat from where July that
she was missing.

Andrea (24:27):
Yeah, July to September.

Paul G (24:28):
September, which if anyone's really humid in
Arkansas at that time.

Andrea (24:31):
Oh, it's like 100, 102.

Paul G (24:33):
With 90% humidity, yeah.

Andrea (24:35):
So yeah, if you're sitting on open open elements,
but define skeletal remains.
I'm thinking, like, you know,skeletal remains being like Mr.
Skeleton you can hang out forHalloween, but that could be
probably misconstrued if maybethere's some stuff on her
correctness, because obviouslythey identified her.

Paul G (24:51):
Yeah.
So it's she, yeah.
So there's two guys.
They rumored or the rumor wasthis is what the podcast people
put out, and and it's like it'sa rumor.
And I don't know if I really Idon't know if I like the rumor
mill that they get into.

Andrea (25:08):
Yeah, rumor mill, come on.
We all remember when being inschool, someone starts a rumor,
it's not necessarily yourtelephone game.
Yeah, but her boyfriend, okay,here's the thing.
He becomes a suspect for awhile, and obviously they dated,
so he's gonna take her ondates.
He's she's gonna be in hisvehicle.

Paul G (25:24):
They're gonna That was the McMillan guy, right?

Andrea (25:26):
McMillan, yeah.
So to prove or disprove him,you're gonna have to figure out
where he was at in the time thatthis took place.
Yeah.
And his only alibi was he wasdriving around, which is
extremely vague.

Paul G (25:39):
Just driving around.
Yeah.
No, I didn't kill her.
I'm just driving around.

Andrea (25:42):
That does not make you look good.
But at the time of her burial,he was in the Navy.

Paul G (25:49):
And what so was he okay?
So that's well, was he so heobviously was in town when she
was killed?

Andrea (25:57):
Yes, his alibi was he's driving around, no specifics.
But he wasn't in the navy, butif you think about it, she was
found sometime later, like inJuly, he's driving around.
Maybe he went to the Navy.
I don't know, I'm guessing heremaybe like two weeks later.
So at the time that she wasfound and the time that she was
having her funeral, he's in theNavy.
Um you know, Navy, he can't.
He's very distraught, and hegot in trouble from when he got

(26:17):
out got out on leave orwherever.
He came back and stole hermarker.

Paul G (26:22):
The the the temporary marker.

Andrea (26:23):
Temporary marker.

Paul G (26:24):
Now, I do know my father passed away not too long ago,
and he still has a temporarymarker.

Andrea (26:30):
Yes.

Paul G (26:30):
And it's been six months, probably.

Andrea (26:32):
It it takes a bit for headstones.

Paul G (26:34):
Yeah.
So it's possible, even more soback then, because now they've
got these big laser etchermachines that can do it fast.
Uh, it's possible that it couldhave been almost a year later,
because we don't have the policereport date of when he took the
stone took the temporarymarker.

Andrea (26:49):
But what I can read in newspapers, like he was gonna
get in like a misdemeanor chargefor stealing a marker.

Paul G (26:53):
Yeah.
Which petty theft.

Andrea (26:55):
Which, you know, I get it.
He's distraught.
He obviously cared for her.
He loved her, you know, in someaspects.
He was very distraught aboutit.
Everyone's kind of get, youknow, the newspapers.com, his
attorney brought it a pointthat, you know, he's just upset.
It wasn't nothing likesinister.
He didn't, you know, he don'tthat doesn't mean he did it.

Paul G (27:12):
See his point of view.
I mean, you're not gonna getanything to remember her by, and
they're gonna put the tombstonedown, and you found out it's
going in Wednesday, and so yougo up there and take the the
temporary marker because they'rejust going to throw it away or
or or reuse it for somebodyelse.
So you want that to rememberher by.
But it's weird.
Ask the family.
Well, yeah, exactly.

(27:32):
But it's weird, but it'splausible.

Andrea (27:34):
It's plausible.
Um, it's also plausible theother way, too.
Yeah, you know, but I mean I Ilove it.

Paul G (27:40):
It's also plausible that it blew away the wind, but no,
well, I mean stole it.

Andrea (27:43):
I have my daughter's temporary marker.
I had a child that passed away.

Paul G (27:46):
You still have it?

Andrea (27:47):
Yeah, I still have it.
Okay.
Um, I I get that wanting tohold on to it, but I would like
to think, and maybe because Iwant to believe that people have
an ounce of kindness that youwould ask the parents.

Paul G (27:57):
Yeah, but not if you're an idiot.

Andrea (27:59):
But I guess if you're so distraught, you're not
thinking.

Paul G (28:01):
Yeah, he's an idiot.
Well, he's also an idiot.
He's his alibi is I'm drow outdriving around.

Andrea (28:06):
You know, and think about it.
One thing I thought was veryinteresting in reading in
newspapers.com is is hisattorney, which was a lady, I
can't remember her name, but shewas like, they later on down
the road, he's obviously primecustody boyfriend, you know,
stole a marker.
You know, he's like it justrings it.

Paul G (28:21):
But so yeah, and he they say he drove a truck that was
very similar to the truck thatwas parked behind Dana's.
Well, every truck then lookedlike the same, the other truck.

Andrea (28:31):
Yeah, they all had a very classic look.
All of them did.

Paul G (28:33):
Yeah, and and they all look the same.

Andrea (28:35):
I mean, now you could especially in the dark.
You can tell a dodge between aFord between his Chevy.

Paul G (28:40):
I mean they were all boxes back then.

Andrea (28:42):
Yeah, but they're all boxes back then.

Paul G (28:43):
And you know it wasn't new.
His his truck wouldn't be newbecause he's navy and he's not
here all the time.
I doubt he's got a brand newtruck.
But even if you got a brand newtruck, it's got a 1990, I guess
it's a new body style.
But more than likely it waslike an 85 Chevy.
Yeah, it's or an 85 Ford, whichlooked very similar in the dark
from a distance.

Andrea (29:02):
Yeah, anybody in the dark.
If you were to ask me, like,hey, what kind of vehicle you
see?
It was a black truck.
I couldn't tell you if it was aFord or a Dodge or whatever.
You could, though, because Ididn't know the difference,
yeah.

Paul G (29:11):
I don't know the car guy.

Andrea (29:12):
But um, we also had another person we thought might
be a potential suspect.

Paul G (29:16):
You know, in 96 the judge ordered this guy to
provide a hair sample uh when hewas in Oklahoma.

Andrea (29:23):
Yeah, he lived, I think, or what to Tulsa, I want to
say.

Paul G (29:26):
Yeah.

Andrea (29:26):
You know, I get this.
I get why his attorney said no.
Because if you think about it,they were dating.

Paul G (29:30):
The attorney uh absolutely said, no way, not
gonna happen.

Andrea (29:33):
And I I see your point.
I mean, they dated.
Of course her hair is gonna bein that truck.
Of course there's gonna be DNAin that truck.

Paul G (29:40):
She Well, Judge ordered him to provide a hair sample
in '96.
They wanted his DNA, I think,or something.

Andrea (29:46):
Which I think he complied with it.

Paul G (29:48):
Yeah, but the state crime led said it was similar,
but blacked a route for DNA.
Well, everybody has a versionof brown hair.

Andrea (29:55):
Yeah.

Paul G (29:55):
It's really light brown, which because we call blonde,
or really dark or black.
Black, which nine what, threequarters of the time it's
actually just really dark brown.

Andrea (30:05):
And to get the root removed, I think, is kind of a
challenge.
Yeah.
It's probably more of a bettertechnique now.
Yeah.

Paul G (30:12):
But oh yeah.
They don't even need hairanymore.
We just go to dance straight toDNA forget the hair.

Andrea (30:17):
Now, if you touch anything, you got touch DNA.

Paul G (30:19):
Yeah, they can pull DNA out of a strand of hair.

Andrea (30:21):
Which is mind-boggling, but this is 89.

Paul G (30:25):
So but when he was there though, the police went out and
talked to him, right?

unknown (30:28):
Yep.

Paul G (30:29):
And what he said to them was sometimes he said this,
sometimes I think I did killDana, but I know I didn't.

Andrea (30:37):
Why would you say that though?

Paul G (30:38):
Went on record saying that.

Andrea (30:40):
But why would you say that?

Paul G (30:41):
Well, you know, cognitive dissonance and things
like that, people, if he'sreally dis I'm plain devil's
advocate.
He's really distressed aboutit.
That is something that he's,you know, transferred onto
himself.
I mean And he might feel like Isometimes I think I did, but I
know I didn't.

Andrea (31:01):
To me, that's a weird statement.
Like, if you didn't do it, ifyou didn't do something like
this, you and I would be likescreaming at the hilltops, I
didn't do this, X, Y, and Z,screw you all, I did not.
I don't imagine, even ifsomeone like beat me to death, I
still don't think I would dothat.

Paul G (31:16):
Well, we're also much faster processors of information
than most people.

Andrea (31:21):
But we're different people.

Paul G (31:22):
And we're also very different people.
We're very, very you won't meetvery many people like Andrea
and I.

Andrea (31:27):
But if you think about it though, there've been cases
out there where people have beenlike within an inch of their
life and they confess just tomake the beating stop.

Paul G (31:35):
Yeah, that happens all the time, actually.
That's why they don't do thatanymore.
They can't.
It's like the cops go to jailnow for doing that.

Andrea (31:42):
Also makes me wonder did they hound this guy so much
that he's getting confusedwithin his own head where he
was?

Paul G (31:47):
Could have.
Because that was a technique ofthe day, 1989.
And a small, you know, BentonCounty Police Force.
It's not the modern policeforce that we have now.
I'm not indicting the police.
No, because I don't know.
It might not have happened thatway, but it could have.

Andrea (32:00):
We're always kind of slightly five years behind the
rest of the world.

Paul G (32:03):
Yeah, unfortunately.
That's true.
But and so, but they also saidshe had another boyfriend or
another guy that she was dating.

Andrea (32:12):
Oh, I don't remember that.

Paul G (32:14):
They didn't give a name publicly.
This is all hearsay from thepodcast.
The other podcasts.
This is why I don't like thelisten to these podcasts because
they tell you these things.
You think they're fact.

Andrea (32:23):
But you can't find where the where the information is.

Paul G (32:24):
And they're just there just somebody says, Well, I
think so.
You know, and that's not that'snot correct.
So any alibis for this guy wasverified through work logs and
family corroboration, is whatthey say.

Andrea (32:40):
Family will cover up from their own people, for God's
sakes.
The uh Did you steal that theirkick cat from me?
No.
You know, I mean, uh GabbyPetito, his own family backed
him up.

Paul G (32:51):
Yeah, yeah.

Andrea (32:52):
Which I don't know.
I guess if my kids didsomething like that, it'd be
like, you're going to jail,buddy.
You're gonna confess.

Paul G (32:58):
Well, there was this whole bunch of rumors about her
going that about there beingsome kind of weird party up in
the woods near Missouri.
And I think that's I think thisguy in the podcast that we're
talking about that I listenedto, he's getting too close to
another case that isn't relatedto this case.

Andrea (33:18):
I mean, that's possible.
There were a couple otherthings that we looked up around
this time because we found anarticle where it talked about um
that their serial killers maybelurking in the Ozarks.
So we were kind of curiousabout what exactly they were
getting at.
And we were both discussingthis before we got an air.

Paul G (33:34):
In 1990, Shauna Garber, she was 22.

Andrea (33:37):
Which Anderson, Missouri is not that far away from
Bellevis.

Paul G (33:41):
And that's the Grace Doe.
Yeah, Grace Doe.
That's the one that they thatthey did.
They figured it out, theysolved it.
And I think we're we'reprobably gonna dive in on that
for ourselves as well.
Donna Sue Nelton, also in 1990,age 28, out of Benton County.

Andrea (33:56):
Which we don't right here.
It's right here.
I mean, you know, that's fitsuper close.
But the one that I don't agreewith, which we covered briefly
on one of them, was MelissaMissy Witt.
Yeah, Melissa Witt.
Fort Smith is what, an hour anda half from here?

Paul G (34:11):
So there was major papers coming out and saying
that it was a serial killer.

Andrea (34:15):
Yeah, which is not right.
I maybe they're gr they'regrasping at the same time frame.

Paul G (34:20):
Yeah.

Andrea (34:21):
But I get that.
And then the other one is ayoung girl, Christina Marie
Pimkin, which we may cover nine.
She's nine.
Doesn't really quite completelyfit the MO of someone who's 18
and 22 and 28.
But still, if we can find someinformation to help the family
with Miss Christina, we wouldlove to help and like research
it and get that out there.
Because a nine-year-old, that'sjust that is very sad, guys.

Paul G (34:41):
Yeah, it'd be tough for me not to also be convicted of
murder after I find the personwho did it.

Andrea (34:45):
Yeah, you don't don't hurt children.
Don't hurt children.

Paul G (34:48):
Yeah.
I'm not you don't want to meetme in a dark alley and me know
that you're some kind ofpedophile.
It's not gonna go in the well.

Andrea (34:54):
No, you'd go to jail.

Paul G (34:57):
Um, so where we're at now is basically they don't have
there's no evidence becauseit's all rotted away.

Andrea (35:05):
But I read that her mother gave up blood and saliva
samples.
That way her daughter didn'thave to be exhumed if they do
find someone.
What?
Like she What's that gonna helpwith?
Well, she has mitochondrialDNA.
She has she wanted to giveeverything out there so her
daughter doesn't.
Yeah, so she doesn't have to belike they had the daughter's
DNA though, didn't they?
I would think to identify her,but it's been on several police

(35:27):
reports.

Paul G (35:28):
They probably didn't pull any because at the time,
1990, the DNA wasn't really athing.
It was just being used.
I think the first case was justhappening right then.

Andrea (35:39):
But think about it as a mom and your daughter was k
killed savagely.
You don't want her constantlybeing up and down, up and down,
out of her resting place to seeif someone's exhumed.
That that in itself is enoughtrauma as a parent, I would
think.
Yeah.
So I think she kind of had alittle bit of forethought of
wanting to help, which I don'tknow how much of that.

(36:00):
We do know some things havebeen sent to the FBI, some
things have been sent toArkansas State Crime Lab, but
nothing has ever been completely100% finding an answer on what
happened to her and who did it.

Paul G (36:12):
Yeah.
So here's the thing that droveme nuts once I started compiling
the book.

Andrea (36:17):
Okay.

Paul G (36:18):
And it drove me nuts because I know enough about how
people who kill operate.
Mostly because I have to writeabout it in my stories.

Andrea (36:28):
That's correct.

Paul G (36:29):
If you want to read my stories, by the way, uh it's on
Substack, search for Paul G.
Newton and you can read them.
Because there's there's a bunchof them there.
But I have to know how to killpeople to write it.
And I have to understand theperson who killed it to make a
good story.
Yeah, because if you don'tunderstand the person and why
they killed, then you can't youcan't grow the characters.

Andrea (36:54):
But uh when we first got this, the first words out of my
mouth is squirrel hunter notreporting it either A, yeah,
you're an a-hole for not doingit, and you're real worried
about catching, yeah.
Yeah, cu catching yoursquirrels.

unknown (37:06):
Okay.

Paul G (37:07):
I doubt that.
Squirrels are everywhere.

Andrea (37:09):
Around here, like they're like, you know, rats.

Paul G (37:11):
Yeah.
Um they are rats with tails.

Andrea (37:13):
But it just like, I don't know, something about that
just drove me nuts.
You know, it's like, why wouldyou do that?
Do you not have a soul?

Paul G (37:20):
I but uh I went and and did this quickly using Chat GPT.

Andrea (37:27):
Which it's it's nice.

Paul G (37:28):
It's really, really good.
It's a really good sourcematerial.

Andrea (37:31):
It helps me in my job, it helps you when you with your
writing your stories and how toget like good information that
you can't spend hours on becausewho has hours and hours of time
in their lives.

Paul G (37:40):
Well, that we do or we're used to.

Andrea (37:41):
Yeah.

Paul G (37:42):
So what I did is I I went in and I talked to Chad for
a good hour and a half about umRobert Ressler.

Andrea (37:50):
Which is on Mind Hunter.

Paul G (37:51):
Yeah, he's the main guy that started all of this stuff,
the profiling and everythingelse.

Andrea (37:57):
Yeah, super brilliant man.

Paul G (37:59):
Yeah, and and he's the one he's the one that put this
together.
This is where the st thestepping stones are come from,
so people can get from one placeto the other and and build
upon.

Andrea (38:07):
Which has helped solve crimes.

Paul G (38:09):
More than one.
Several big ones.
But it didn't do anything forBTK.

Andrea (38:17):
BTK, I think, is an enigma all his own.

Paul G (38:20):
He just quit and then started again.

Andrea (38:22):
Well he was raising a family, I guess he was busy.

Paul G (38:25):
I mean, I don't know.
He's busy.
I don't know.
Too bad he wasn't busy thenight that the seven, eight
people that he killed.
Anyhow.
Um so this guy it rung a bellin me and things that I
remembered.
So I went to chat to look up.
It's it's basically me gettingthe cliffs notes from wrestlers'

(38:46):
books.

Andrea (38:47):
Yes.

Paul G (38:48):
And it goes and does all the research for me and it
presents me with it.
And then when you and whatespecially with this, when
you're in Chat GPT and doinganything, always, always,
always, when it finally getsdone, you tell it, go back and
fact check everything you justsaid.

Andrea (39:03):
Yes, you have to because it is a machine, it's not well,
it makes stuff up.

Paul G (39:07):
Not as bad as it used to when it first started.

Andrea (39:09):
But it's not like you trained it.
Like train your dragon,whatever that is.

Paul G (39:13):
Well, no, I train mine.
Mine is trained.
Yeah, it's yeah.
Um, I've put hundreds of hoursinto my chat chat, and they they
do learn these chat GPTs, theydo learn how to talk to you in a
way that you'll re accept andnot want to kill them for the
most part over time.

(39:34):
They learn you.

Andrea (39:36):
Yeah, it almost sounds like sometimes the responses it
gives you sounds like it's you.

Paul G (39:40):
Yeah.

Andrea (39:40):
Which is kind of eerie, but you know.

Paul G (39:42):
Well, I I told it that's why I wanted it to do it.
Because then I understand itand I don't have to fight with
it.
Like, what the hell are youtalking about?
No, I get it.
Um so pulled up the wrestlerinformation and the profiling
information and just wrestledwith it for a minute, and it
really it came up with, and Iagree with it 100%.

Andrea (40:05):
But we're not trying to have like say when we say this,
we're not trying to say thatthis is who did it.
Right.
We're not trying to give we'renot a cops.
This is just us speculating andus just thinking and having our
own ideas and processes behindit.

Paul G (40:18):
So I don't want any like law enforcement coming after us
or what I want to know is didwe follow up with the hunter?
Did he sit in a did he sit inan interrogation room and get
questioned for hours like anormal suspect would?
That's what I want to know.

Andrea (40:32):
I would like to know that.
And I would like to know, likeback in those days, even up
until like I would say 2000, thegood old boy system in
northwest Arkansas still worked.

Paul G (40:42):
If you were Yeah, it worked up until about five, ten
years ago, actually.

Andrea (40:46):
You were well known in the community and you seem to be
a good person, and you keptyour nose clean, and you
happened to be somewhere youshouldn't.
Well, they'll just forget aboutthat because Billy Bob, you're
a good person.
And that sometimes I think it'snot just in Arkansas, it I I'm
sure it's everywhere in the US,but it was a thing here.

Paul G (41:07):
Yeah, and one of the things that Wrestler discovered
was insertion, the offenderinsertion into the
investigation.
And while this could be saidthat it is not it is because he
inserted himself into theinvestigation when he did not
report it.

Andrea (41:25):
Yeah, I might I don't know why that bugs me so much,
because it's kind of like Iwould like to think if you have
a soul, you would do the rightthing.

Paul G (41:30):
Now, prosecutor David Klinger and Sheriff Andy Lee
both were very concerned aboutthis guy and look and and and uh
not and his laps and notreporting it.
But again, I wanna did theyinterrogate him, did they push
him?
Because the behavioralpresentation, the hunter's lack
of emotional effect on and hisstatement that it he didn't let

(41:52):
it spoil his day, that shouldhave drawn I mean I would have
put him in an interrogationimmediately.

Andrea (41:59):
Bring out the fire and the pitchforks.
I mean that's how I look at it.

Paul G (42:02):
Right?
And i it's atypical for an uhuninvolved witness.
It's not something anuninvolved witness would say.

Andrea (42:10):
But she wouldn't, he's the reason why she was
discovered.
So let's just be hypotheticalhere for shits and giggles,
excuse my language, that he didit and nobody was discovering
her, and he was getting slightlyirritated that nobody was
finding her.
And you're like, ooh, I'll makea call, here she is, but I want
to get my squirrel hunting in.

Paul G (42:27):
Yeah.
Or he could just be an asshole.

Andrea (42:29):
That's true.
I mean, that's a possibility.
I mean, there's some peoplethat hear hunting is almost like
a religion, especially in theyou know, their 80s and 90s, and
even now, hunting is a big dealhere.

Paul G (42:40):
Yeah.
Well, and and part of thebiggest thing about it too,
though, is that if there wasanybody who would have the
ability to traverse and knowwhere everything is, it's that
guy.

Andrea (42:51):
It's a hunter.
Yeah.

Paul G (42:52):
They know he was there.

Andrea (42:54):
I mean, the hunters know where they like to go.
They know what's rural, theyknow where they're gonna get
what game at and where.
I have family that hunt, andthey're it's they know their
stuff.
They know where to put theirtree stand, they know where to
put their blind, they know, youknow, uh times of year and
conditions.
They're very smart on that.
And they know what's hiddenfrom I don't know what it was

(43:14):
like in 89, but now, even now,it's so kind of rural, we have a
road through it.
Who knows what it was like backthen?

Paul G (43:20):
And here's the thing this wasn't common knowledge
about what we're talking aboutin 1989.
No, it wasn't.
Because the book SexualHomicide Patterns and Motives by
Wrestler, Burgess, and Douglasdidn't come out until 1988.
Oh.
It's very plausible that thelocal law enforcement were still
going off of the 1960s and 70splaybook of how to handle a

(43:43):
homicide investigation.

Andrea (43:44):
Yeah, because I mean they didn't know you don't know
what you don't know.

Paul G (43:47):
Yeah, and in that book, uh such he says that such a
delay may stem from shock fearor implication, or in rare
cases, offender reinsertionbehavior.
But fear of implic fear ofimplication.

Andrea (44:03):
But the behavioral pattern of him coming back and
saying he didn't want to spoilhis day doesn't sit well.

Paul G (44:11):
And then he's he comes across comes on in later inter
media interviews.
Uh that's a called a narrativecontrol tendency, sometimes seen
in organized offenders who wishto shape public perception
perception or monitorinvestigative progress.
And that's out of the Douglasand Old Shaker, Mindhunter,

(44:32):
1995.
Mindhunter was actually a bookthat they that explains how
these things worked.
But I mean 1995, it stillhadn't come out yet.

unknown (44:41):
Yeah.

Paul G (44:41):
So these are techniques and and things that they they
didn't consider that on theground that day.

Andrea (44:46):
But if you're thinking like a lay person who finds a
body, you would think they won'tinstantly turn it into police.
For me, if I found a body, I'dbe screaming like I'm not
touching it, and I would like togo call somebody, but I would
be afraid that I would be in it,you know, because you found it.
But if you didn't do anythingwrong, then why did you not
report it sooner?

Paul G (45:04):
One of the good things about it is that uh according to
the research I did, and ofcourse this is all speculation
and not real doctoral levelstuff, is that it's more than
likely he's not going to be arepeat offender.
It's probably the only personhe killed if it was him.

Andrea (45:20):
But there's he's never named it anything I can find.
It all says it's rule.
They never quote him all exceptthat one.
Except for that one quote.
Yeah.

Paul G (45:28):
They don't put his name next to the quote.

Andrea (45:30):
Yeah, which I meant.
I would like to think duediligence would be able to rule
somebody out, but the good oldboy method is still kind of a
concern.

Paul G (45:38):
So some of the people think that her tire was slashed
or the air was let out in a ruseto get her to pull over so they
could help and kill her.

Andrea (45:47):
I can see that.

Paul G (45:49):
I I don't know.

Andrea (45:50):
I mean I mean, no offense to those ladies out
there, but blue light rapistkind of shit's going on here.
Yeah, we're not very studiouson cars.
Some women are.
God bless you who are.
I'm not one of those people.
If I was to say if someonetampered with my tire, I'd have
no idea.
I just get in the car and go.
So I it's a possibility.

Paul G (46:10):
I mean And they don't know what killed her.
They don't know if she wasstrangled or stabbed.
And there's conflicting reportsthat Arkansas State Police
finally did say yes, she wasstabbed, but they can't prove
it.

Andrea (46:20):
No, I mean, unless you've got like chip marks on
bone, I don't know how theycould prove that.
I mean, we're not DNA people.
We're by by no means are weDNA, like trained.
You you lab techs are likeamazing in this field, and God
bless you.
But I'm just thinking if she'sstabbed and she's skeletal
remains, the only way you canprobably prove that is seeing
like Nick's on a bone.

Paul G (46:39):
Absolutely.
And I guess my biggest thingtoo is that all these other
podcasts, where this one guy'stelling this giant long story,
and he goes off on athree-episode tangent on another
killing, trying to tie it in,but it's not the same.

Andrea (46:52):
No, but you know, sometimes people see things to
different perspectives thatmaybe he's seeing something from
a writer's narrative or youknow, something that's trying to
tell you a story instead ofgiving you information.
But you know, that that'sobviously done well for him
because he's pretty well known.
We're not gonna say who he isbecause we don't want him coming
after us if he gets angry thatwe're having a different

(47:14):
opinion.

Paul G (47:14):
But um, but so have a different opinion.
It's he can get angry all hewants.

Andrea (47:19):
Well, these days you never know.
But free speech.
Free speech.
But I mean, if but peoplesometimes like that type of
drawing in and identifying withthe person, which we both kind
of identified with her basedupon different scenarios.
Me having a being a mother foryou, it was an aspect of the
hunter that irked both of us,but you especially.

Paul G (47:41):
Yeah, no, I was on him in me.
I was thinking about himimmediately.
I'm like, that's my suspect.

Andrea (47:47):
But for me, I'm thinking, how what can I do to
protect my girls when they'reout there on the road
themselves?
Granted, we have cell phonesnow.
That's a little bit better.
But in '89, there was no cellphones.
It was landlines.
You're out there by yourself.
Either you get out of the carand walk, or some sweet person
helps you.

Paul G (48:04):
But that's all there is about there's there's some other
people talking about partiesand things like that.
But you know, it's noteyewitness accounts, it's it's
people that are just talkingabout BS.
Um, you've got this one guy,it's very possible that the guy
the other guy did this, the guyin Oklahoma.
What's his name?
It's very possible.

Andrea (48:24):
But I I I want to clear the You mean Oklahoma or the guy
from Gateway?

unknown (48:32):
Oh.

Paul G (48:33):
Oh, you're talking about other suspects.
No, I'm talking about the thesuspect that they had.

Andrea (48:37):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Uh yeah, the boyfriend.

Paul G (48:39):
Yeah, yeah.

Andrea (48:40):
But it could be like, who knows?
Maybe they like, you know,graduating high school and
they're like, hey man, I'm goingon a different path in life.
We need to break up.
And maybe who I'm justspeculating here, maybe he
didn't take that very well.
Which I get that.

Paul G (48:54):
I mean, you know, when you're one of the other things
that I brought up too wasbecause you just reminded me of
it.
Um, was this guy at Gateway?

Andrea (49:02):
Yeah, Harden, Gary Hardin.
I think it's Gary Harden.

Paul G (49:04):
Yeah, Harden, the devil in the Ozarks at that point.
Oh, yeah.

Andrea (49:06):
And he's the one that decided that he wanted to
escape.

Paul G (49:08):
Yeah, he's the one recently.
Yeah, he's spinning he he he hegot exactly half a mile in and
just stopped.

Andrea (49:14):
I'm sorry, but if I'm gonna escape from jail, I'm
gonna go as far away from thejail as possible.
But he hung around.

Paul G (49:20):
Yeah, he didn't go anywhere.

Andrea (49:21):
I'm like, I remember like yelling at the TV, going,
You idiot.
But I mean, we're glad thatcriminals are stupid.
That's how they get caught.
But he's from Pea Ridge.
Grant Harding.

Paul G (49:31):
He's from Pea Ridge.

Andrea (49:32):
Gateway Pea Ridge area, which is where we live.
Yeah.

Paul G (49:35):
Which is a stone's throw from where she was murdered.

Andrea (49:38):
Right.

Paul G (49:38):
It's literally like one thing about Grant Harding is we
he, it's proven by DNA that hetried to rape a teacher.
He did rape a teacher.
Yeah, he did rape a teacher ata middle school.
Was there middle school?
It was middle school orelementary school.

Andrea (49:52):
Elementary school.

Paul G (49:52):
Elementary school.
Before he became the even thegateway police officer.

Andrea (49:59):
Yes, and he's just they didn't know who did it.
Yeah, but you know, he theylove thank God the police
department had the foresight tokeep DNA.

Paul G (50:07):
Yeah.
They get they kept the DNA offthe victim.
Is was that I think it's itsounds more like though, I mean
it's possible that he could havebeen over here and said, ooh,
look, I get to kill somebodybecause he's nuts.
But it doesn't follow thepattern underneath the
Mindhunter's ways of doingthings wrestler, because he it

(50:28):
would be an escalation and thenhe'd de-escalate to rape.

Andrea (50:32):
True.
Or maybe we don't know.
Maybe she was raped.
We'll never know.
She was skeletal remains.

Paul G (50:39):
Yeah.
But like like I said though, itif he would have killed, he
would have killed the teacher.
Also more than likely.

Andrea (50:47):
Or maybe something stopped him.
We we we just know this guybecause he's in the area.
He's very kind of known to thispart of the world.
He escaped recently, it was allover the news.

Paul G (50:56):
But he was working in and around Bentonville.
Yeah.
At the time, which is rightnext to Bella Vista.
And it would be on his wayhome.
Correct.
That road would be on his wayhome from where his work was.

Andrea (51:11):
Which is the road you would take to drive through P
Ridge to get the gateway.
If we're depending upon in thisarea where he lived, it is the
main way to get through therethere.

Paul G (51:17):
Yeah.
And at 3 30, 4 o'clock in theafternoon, guess what?
He just got off work because heworked at a factory.

unknown (51:22):
Yep.

Paul G (51:23):
They leave at three.
It's it all it it it's it it'sWas he in a factory or law
enforcement yet?
No, no, he was still he wasonly 20.

Andrea (51:31):
Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

Paul G (51:32):
Yeah.
And that's another thing reasonwhy it kind of I kind of
exclude him a little bit becausehe's 20 and he hasn't raped
yet.

Andrea (51:39):
But you always need to.

Paul G (51:40):
And the other killing was just he walked up to the
dude and shot him because he wasmad at him.

Andrea (51:44):
Yeah.
For no reason.
We're gonna cover him in alater podcast because he's
fascinating.
He's local to us.
Um, you know, granted, he gotcaught.

Paul G (51:51):
Your uncle or somebody, your cousin, Bray, was the one
that saw it and caught and foundthe body.

Andrea (51:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Bray's is the last is mymother's main name, and they're
like a big idea.
The guy here in P Ridge, andsomebody with the last name Bray
is somehow connected to me, butyeah, and he he's the one that
found the body.

Paul G (52:07):
He's driving by.
It's like, what the heck?

Andrea (52:08):
Yeah, that back road that we try to tell him we need
to be careful on.

Paul G (52:11):
Yeah.
Yeah, don't get killed.
Anyway.
So I guess what what we'relooking for now is we're gonna
get you can follow us with theinvestigation a little bit here.
We're gonna see how much of thestuff we get back.

Andrea (52:22):
And foyer, yeah.
Yeah.

Paul G (52:24):
And if we can talk to the sheriff department.

Andrea (52:26):
Yeah, we're working on it.

Paul G (52:27):
Because we have those questions that we want to have
answered.

Andrea (52:29):
We wanna know.
And some things we want toknow.
We're trying, but sometimespeople are very tight-lipped and
we respect that.

Paul G (52:35):
Did they take pictures of the tire deflation?
Did they take pictures of thetire?
Can we see pictures of the tireon the car?
If I want to see that.
If they let us if they havethem, they might not have took
pictures of it.
1989.

Andrea (52:47):
Yeah, it's true.

Paul G (52:48):
Um the officer sighting.

Andrea (52:51):
Where the hell?

Paul G (52:52):
Who?
Do they have a log?

Andrea (52:55):
You know, I'm sure there's a lot of things that
they do in their daily thingthat they think is insignificant
and don't log.
And that's this could be one ofthem.

Paul G (53:00):
Yeah.
Um how was she killed?
Right?
Was she strangled or was shestabbed?

Andrea (53:08):
That you may not be able to find because if depending
upon how she was, she skeletalremains, you won't be able to
know.
But her poor family, she needthey need we need justice for
her.

Paul G (53:17):
Yeah.
And was there any missingitems?
Was there anything that's inthere that they they are looking
for?
See, I would look for thatbecause a lot of people who kill
keep souvenirs.

Andrea (53:28):
Yeah.
And I just the fact that sheleft her keys is still very
mind-blowing to me.

Paul G (53:31):
I mean, she could have had a picture or a locket or a
rabbit's foot or something,because rabbits' feet people had
them back then.
Yeah.
She could have had that and theguy's got it in his trunk right
now, going, I killed that girl,nobody knows.

Andrea (53:43):
Yeah.

Paul G (53:44):
Exactly.

Andrea (53:44):
Exactly.

Paul G (53:45):
Um, and then I really want to know if they talked to
that damn hunter.
You know, I want to know ifthey cleared him, and they
cleared him right.
Do they have con tapes of him?

Andrea (53:55):
A lot of this a lot of this we'd want to know, but they
may not give us for the sake ofthe fact that it's unsolved,
and I respect that.

Paul G (54:02):
I don't know.
I just really have a hard timebelieving that that hunter
didn't do it.

Andrea (54:07):
I do.

Paul G (54:07):
I know it screams it, but I mean I mean, the what we'd
have to do now as aninvestigator if we were if we
were the investigator is provethat he didn't have anything to
do with it.
We have to go and inst andprove he didn't do it, have
anything to do with it.

Andrea (54:21):
Yeah, but we don't even have a name.

Paul G (54:23):
Yeah, unfortunately.
So but that's where we're atwith this.
Dana Stidum.

Andrea (54:29):
Yes.

Paul G (54:29):
Interesting.

Andrea (54:30):
Very interesting.

Paul G (54:31):
Um, what do you think?
Is it something we should getto keep?
I guess we keep working on it.

Andrea (54:36):
Yeah, let's see before you give us.
And if we have an update, guys,we'll give you one.
If not, then if anybody knowsanything, please report.

Paul G (54:43):
Yeah.
Now, also though, we've alsogot a couple others in the I've
been trying to find informationon that 72, 74 car bombing, but
nobody has it.
They've gotten rid of all ofit.

Andrea (54:56):
Yeah, I can kind of see that.

Paul G (54:58):
It's all gone.
And the dude's not talking.

Andrea (55:01):
No, and I get that.
You know, I respect that.
I'd like to dig some more onthese other things we've talked
about.

Paul G (55:07):
Like you've got this other other homicides, right?

Andrea (55:10):
Yeah, um, penny doe, I'm digging into that.
It's granted it's not anArkansas case, but it's
interesting.

Paul G (55:14):
Uh well, that's just up the road.

Andrea (55:16):
Pennsylvania's a little bit far up the road, but yeah.

Paul G (55:18):
Oh, the penny doe one.
I thought you meant the JaneDoe.
Sorry.

Andrea (55:21):
But um, you know, like Grace Doe.
I'm kind of curious about that.
Um, we've talked about Missy,you know, wit.

Paul G (55:28):
So if anybody knows anything, they feel free to
contact us.
We'd love to hear what you haveto say.

Andrea (55:33):
Oh, and if you know something personally, please let
us know.
Or if you know something andyou want to talk to the police
department, we encourage you todo so.

Paul G (55:39):
Yeah, call to the cops.
If you have already talked tothe cops, you can let us know.
Especially if they ignored youor the podcast guy ignored you,
we'd love to know about them.

Andrea (55:46):
Yeah, and this Christina Marie Pimkin, nine years old.
I don't know, something butthat tugs at me a touch.
Because she's nine.
She deserves justice.

Paul G (55:53):
Absolutely.
All right, guys.
Um, Paul G Newton.com.
Go to Paul G Newton.com and youcan buy a hoodie.
I have really cool t-shirts upthere right now.

Andrea (56:03):
You do have some pretty cool ones.
You worked hard on them.

Paul G (56:05):
It's a moon moon cat?
No, it wasn't a mooncat, wasit?

Andrea (56:09):
It's a burger.

Paul G (56:09):
Moonburger.
That's right.
Moon burgers.

Andrea (56:12):
It looks kind of cool.

Paul G (56:13):
And then they have the great uh Squid War of 2047 or
something like that.

Andrea (56:18):
Yeah, it's pretty funny.

Paul G (56:19):
It's cute.
Then the Mooncat.
What's he doing?

Andrea (56:22):
Oh gosh, I can't remember what he's doing.

Paul G (56:23):
Can't remember what he's doing.
No.
Go check him out at the PaulgNewton.com.
It's under get your swag.
And if you like this episode,email us at Paul G at Paul G
Newton and tell us how great weare and how much you love us.
And if you don't like us andyou want to complain, email us
anyway.

Andrea (56:39):
Yeah.

Paul G (56:42):
Turned off on me.
We do this live.
I don't even cut it.
I just put it on there.

Andrea (56:47):
Yep.
We do a good job.
I guess we do a decent joblive.

Paul G (56:51):
I thought it had longer on the on the side.

Andrea (56:53):
I like this song, it makes me laugh.
I don't know why.

Paul G (56:55):
Yeah.
We need to know everything.

Andrea (56:57):
We do.

Paul G (56:58):
Because we're messed up on the head.
A little bit.
There we go.
Thanks, guys.

Andrea (57:05):
I need to know everything.
Now you'll be surprised if theinfo you get is by letting them
talk, so I'm letting them talk.
Gotta keep quiet, maneuverinsights to let them talk up
their body.
Another one body, that's justhow I go.
I got some secrets, I'm shakingthe game, so they stay on their
toes.
Stay in your lane out to stayon the goal.
I can play with the pros andact like a rookie, so they
overlook me.
They're not the belong.