Vanished Without A Trace

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Two women vanish in Arkansas, sixteen years apart, and the details still don’t sit right.

In this episode, we examine the disappearance of 18-year-old Cleashindra Hall in Pine Bluff in 1994 and art teacher Mary “Jimmie” Bobo Shinn in Magnolia in 1978. Two very different lives. Two very different towns. The same outcome: unanswered questions and investigations that lost traction early.

We walk through what went wrong and why it mattered. What happens when the last known location is someone else’s home? When the only narrative comes from the people who controlled the space, and that space gets cleaned, rearranged, or repainted before police ever look? How does a routine house showing end with a dumped purse, cash untouched, and tennis shoes jammed beneath the pedals of an abandoned car?

We talk plainly about investigative blind spots: delayed entry to critical scenes, chain-of-custody failures that destroy potential forensic evidence, witness canvasses that never quite lock in, and the damaging assumption that adults simply “left.” We also place both cases in their time. Pine Bluff in the 1990s. Magnolia in the late 1970s. How race, social standing, and small-town dynamics shaped urgency, attention, and follow-through.

We also cut through the noise. Psychics. Private investigator versus police friction. Sketches so generic they could be half the state. Theories that don’t match the evidence don’t help anyone.

This episode is about what can still be done. Retesting with modern DNA methods. Re-entering prints and materials into national databases. Re-canvassing with the benefit of time and honesty. And talking openly about common-sense safety practices that didn’t exist when these women disappeared.

Cold cases don’t close themselves. People close them.

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And if you want more long-form storytelling beyond true crime, listen to Paul G’s Corner, where history, near-miss disasters, and forgotten moments get the same straight-talk treatment.

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Episode Transcript

Intro Music (00:00):
I need to know everything.
Who in the what in the where Ineed everything?
Trust me, I hear what you'resaying, but I laggers know what
you're telling me.
I'm curious, George.
I hop in the porch.

Paul G (00:15):
For some reason you love that song.

Andrea (00:17):
I don't know why.
It just makes me laugh.
I need to know everything.

Paul G (00:20):
Which kind of know everything.

Andrea (00:22):
That kind of sounds really bad, I guess, or it could
sound really good, dependingupon how you want to look at it.

Paul G (00:27):
I need to know everything.

Andrea (00:29):
Not like that.

Paul G (00:31):
Okay.

Andrea (00:32):
I need to know everything.
I'm a country hick.

Paul G (00:34):
Yeah, no, no.
I once knew a guy that had aPhD that he talked like this the
whole time.
I was like, hello, ForrestGump, but he knew more than most
people.
Oh lord.
You can't help his accent.

Andrea (00:48):
Well, different parts of Arkansas have different
accents, that's for sure.

Paul G (00:52):
I mean, welcome to Things I Wanna Know.
Today I'm Paul G.

Andrea (00:57):
And I'm Andrea Newton.
Oh, are you gonna claim myname?
I'm married to, and it's legalnow.

Paul G (01:03):
Uh was it not legal before?

Andrea (01:06):
It's like everything's getting switched over, so it
feels legal, legal.

Paul G (01:09):
Uh, you missed that one.

Andrea (01:11):
That's okay.
Well, today we're gonna talkabout two cases that Why to
Well, number one, there's not awhole lot of information, but
number two, they're literallylike disappeared without a
trace.
Kind of a situation.
Yeah.
And it's like mind-boggling.
One of them's out of pinebluff.

Paul G (01:29):
Mind boogling.

Andrea (01:30):
Yeah, and the other one's out of marigold.
Is it Marigold?
Magnolia?
Magnolia.

Paul G (01:36):
Make up your mind.
There's marigold and magnolia.

Andrea (01:38):
Is there really?

Paul G (01:39):
Yeah.
Oh, I'm also toadsuck and crossit.

Andrea (01:43):
Can you imagine writing that on letters toadsuck,
Arkansas, and then your zipcode?

Paul G (01:47):
But it didn't go suck a toad, Arkansas.

Andrea (01:50):
That can't be a town.
I hope.

Paul G (01:52):
It would be nice if it was.
I'd live there.

Andrea (01:54):
Goad suck a toad.

Paul G (01:55):
Go suck a toad.

Andrea (01:56):
Go suck a toad.

Paul G (01:57):
Yeah, where do you live?
Go suck a toad.
And I'll be like, dude, man.
Just asking a nice question.
I just figure out where youlive.
Oh, that's where I live.
Go suck a toad.
Do you have to say I like that?
Duh.

Andrea (02:09):
Well, I mean what other weird we have Pine Bluff, which
is where this one's out of.

Paul G (02:15):
Piney Bluff.

Andrea (02:16):
That is what the southern part of the state.

Paul G (02:18):
No, it's mid, it's mid wet mid-part of the state on the
west side.

Andrea (02:22):
Is it west side?
Because I just have to look ata map.
I'll just know that Pine Bluffis a rough town.

Paul G (02:26):
Yeah, Pine Bluff was per capita, and I don't know if it
still is this year, the pastyear, the murder capital of the
United States.

Andrea (02:34):
That's really insane.

Paul G (02:36):
Per capita.

Andrea (02:36):
For the state of Arkansas.

Paul G (02:38):
You surpassed Philadelphia, which they used to
call Kiladelphia.

Andrea (02:42):
Nice.

Paul G (02:43):
Yeah, it was bad.

Andrea (02:45):
Well, this case is going to take place in the first one.

Paul G (02:47):
It was all solved stuff.
It was all like uh um gangviolence, and you know, they
knew who they knew who did it.

Andrea (02:56):
Well, we don't there's not a lot of podcasts coming out
of Pine Bluff, other than youknow, like we don't know that.

Paul G (03:00):
There's podcasts everywhere.
There's so many these days.
Everybody and their dog doesone.

Andrea (03:06):
Yeah, I will admit that's true.
And even if you look up truecrime, we're probably not in the
algorithm for true crime, eventhough we've been covering a lot
of true crime.

Paul G (03:13):
Well, we've been doing this for since 2021.

Andrea (03:17):
Yeah, we had a hiatus for a bit.

Paul G (03:19):
I didn't eat nothing.

Andrea (03:21):
No, we had bad internet for a bit because according to
you, we lived in the banjoboonies.

Paul G (03:25):
Well, it it became difficult to run a podcast
because the the banjos wouldn'tstop playing.

Andrea (03:32):
It's because we had internet that was not the
greatest.
You don't need to be able to dothat.
I know for you people out therethat have to have like satellite
internet, I totally feel yourpain.

Paul G (03:40):
Hey, the Tesla stuff's not bad.

Andrea (03:43):
That's true.
I have heard of that.
We've contemplated that, but wehave pretty decent internet now
that we're in the city.

Paul G (03:47):
No, in the city, yeah.
We got fiber.

Andrea (03:49):
Which is nice.

Paul G (03:50):
I got me some fiber.

Andrea (03:53):
Well, go have your metamusle then.

Paul G (03:55):
It makes my it makes it run faster.
Oh gosh.
What?
It does.

Andrea (03:58):
All right.
This first thing we're gonnatalk about, and I'm gonna I'm
gonna do my best not to butcherher name, Kleshindra Hall.

Paul G (04:04):
Kleshindra?

Andrea (04:05):
Clissindra.

Paul G (04:06):
Clishindra.

Andrea (04:06):
I'm gonna call her Miss Hall because that's Miss Hall.

Paul G (04:08):
What if she was a Missus?

Andrea (04:10):
Well, she's a Missus, I guess, technically.

Paul G (04:12):
Oh, okay.

Andrea (04:13):
Um, she was 18.
Uh where was this at?

Paul G (04:16):
It's out in Marigold.

Andrea (04:17):
Pine Bluff.

Paul G (04:18):
Pine Bluff.

Andrea (04:19):
Pine Bluff.
And she went missing on May9th, 1994.

Paul G (04:23):
That's not that long ago.
We were we were still youths.

Andrea (04:27):
Yes, we were still youths.

Paul G (04:29):
Of the nation.
Sorry, couldn't help it.
Oh my gosh.

Andrea (04:33):
It was the 90s, which we all most remember the 90s.

Paul G (04:37):
Your daughter didn't remember the nineties.

Andrea (04:38):
She wasn't around in the 90s.
94, I was in high school.
I was a sophomore.

Paul G (04:45):
94.
I was buying liquor by withillegal means.
I wouldn't 21 yet.

Andrea (04:55):
At least you admit it.
But she's two weeks fromgraduating high school.
She was accepted to TennesseeState University for a pre-med
program, so she's gonna go awayfor the state.
Um, she was working evenings ina small in-home business run by
a woman by the name of GloriaDent.
And when I found out about thisbusiness, okay, can you, as a
parent, you're dropping yourchild off to go to work because

(05:16):
I guess she wasn't driving yet.
And this is an in-homebusiness.
I think as a parent, I would bea little, a little nervous
about that.
But supposedly they did a bunchof um grant writing services,
and it was quoted in the paperas Arkansas Federal Child Care
Nutrition and EducationalServices.
I'll Googled that because I wascurious.

(05:36):
What is that?

Paul G (05:37):
That's that's a thing.

Andrea (05:38):
And basically it deals with the school nutrition.
That's all I could find on itnow.

Paul G (05:42):
It's you get free, that's where you would get your
free lunch stuff.

Andrea (05:46):
Yeah, but I was like, what the heck is this?
And why is it running out ofsomeone's house?

Paul G (05:51):
Oh, wow.

Andrea (05:52):
You know what I mean?

Paul G (05:54):
Well, if we we could run a nonprofit out of the house,
and then if we were able to getthe grant for it.

Andrea (05:59):
Well, that's true.
But I think I don't know.
I'm just like, this seems justkind of strange.
But that's just because she wasworking, what was happening in
there?

Paul G (06:09):
She was working pretty much part-time just finding for
this person out of their housegiving food away.

Andrea (06:14):
No, she was in their house filing paperwork.
That's all I could find.
And she's kind of like a clerkfiler, that kind of thing.
And she worked in the eveningsfrom like, I want to say, like,
from five to like nine.

Paul G (06:25):
So she wasn't like no child labor laws are being
violated.

Andrea (06:28):
No.
So basically, her mom takes herto work, drops her off, and
then she never comes home.

Paul G (06:36):
Well, didn't your mom's supposed to come pick her up, or
is she walking home?

Andrea (06:39):
Her mom's supposed to come pick her up, and when she
comes, picks her up, herdaughter's not there.
Well, how what about the personthat runs the joint?
They say that she came in,asked for a glass of water, said
she had a headache, and left ina vehicle.

Paul G (06:53):
Okay.

Andrea (06:55):
I know.
And this is why this is whatlike was mind-blowing to me
because I kept thinking, howwould I feel dropping my kid off
to where she works now, whichI'm not gonna say, and then I
come back and they tell me shegets in a car and disappears.
Granted, it's it's arestaurant, she works at a
restaurant, but if it's like ata somebody's house, I think as a
parrot, my first response is beI want in that blankety blank

(07:16):
door.
Where's my kid?
You know, I mean you know, it'spossible.

Paul G (07:20):
I mean, I guess she could have just said, you know,
screw you, I'm out.

Andrea (07:23):
You know, there was some stuff that I read on that that
they were saying that maybe shehad a boyfriend, maybe she had,
you know, X, Y, and Z, maybe 94,so it wasn't quite internet
stalkeries.
You know, that she just up andleft, but uh there's no really
proof of that either, that sheran away or anything like that.
So basically, this poor familywhich what'd the police say?

Paul G (07:46):
Did it see anything on the police?
It was in the paper, right?

Andrea (07:49):
In the police, but get this.
The interesting thing that Ithought was interesting is the
guy that runs this place isnon-for-profit, isn't mean Dr.
Amos or Amos A M O S.
Basically, basically, like thepolice didn't get into this
house until like several weekslater.

Paul G (08:04):
What?

Andrea (08:04):
Which I find that odd.

Paul G (08:06):
If she's not dead, how old was she?
She was 18.
She's 18.
Well, it it makes it toughbecause if you if you're there
18, especially 94, none of thatreally mattered, you know what I
mean?
It in 94, that was all you'regonna get.
Yeah, so they could do whateverthey want.
Now nowadays there's a littlebit different laws.

(08:26):
If you're in high school and18, then they're they they can
they can fudge it a little bit.
But back then, if you're 18,that's it.

Andrea (08:35):
Yeah, now is a little bit more gray area, but it's
like, you know, why did thisguy, why did they not?
I couldn't find anything toexplain why they weren't in Let
In sooner and why they didn'tpursue it sooner.
I so that's like the number onered flag to me is uh maybe they
thought she's 18, she'll comeback.
I'm gonna, you know.

Paul G (08:55):
She just left.

Andrea (08:56):
She just left.
But the interesting part that Iread in some of the cases is
they asked the neighbors aroundthe house, like, hey, did you
see a strange car come up around8 30, whatever?
And nobody could verify thiscar was ever there.
But at the same time, how muchdo we pay attention to our
neighbors at our house?

Paul G (09:12):
Back then, a little bit more than now.

Andrea (09:15):
Yeah, yeah.

Paul G (09:15):
We're all sequestered and we don't want to know what
anybody else's business isanymore.
The apathy of time has grown.
Yeah.
Back then we we had more nosyneighbors.

Andrea (09:25):
Which nosy neighbors are a kind of a sin and a curse at
the same time.

Paul G (09:30):
Well, you know what?
I think people should be moreshould be more nosy.
Because if they were more nosy,then they'd get to know the
other people, and the otherpeople might actually get to
know them, and then we mightactually have a society that
gets their nose out of theirdamn phone.

Andrea (09:45):
You know, you got a good valid point there.
But what's weird about thiscase is she left her purse in
the house?
Yes, left her money and herpersonal items.
She le it's like she just poofdisappeared.

Paul G (09:56):
He he either did something, the dude that that
she's working for, or she leftwith this other guy.

Andrea (10:05):
Which they can't confirm that there's anybody else.
That's the thing.

Paul G (10:08):
Did they do any cadaver dogs on her house?

Andrea (10:11):
Uh no, not that I could find.
No cadaver dogs in her house.
I couldn't find anything abouttalks about her personal life,
other than she was just atypical teenager from 1994.
There's so many like openquestions here.
But the weird thing though isthey couldn't find there's no
evidence of high-riskrelationships, there's no
evidence of any high-riskfriendships or high-risk

(10:33):
behavior that I could find.
Um, I pulled through like everyresource I can think of to
Google, like, was she maybe nothaving a good home life?
And she just decided, poof.
But if you're not having a goodhome life, I would think you
would not try to go to college.
You wouldn't leave your purse,you wouldn't leave your money,
you wouldn't leave your personalfacts at your job.

(10:53):
You would take that with you, Iwould think.

Paul G (10:57):
I don't know.

Andrea (10:57):
I mean, maybe I guess.
But there's no body, there's noclothing, there's no forensic
material.
But here's the weird partthough.

Paul G (11:05):
When they never found her, did they?

Andrea (11:07):
They never found her.
But when they get into thisguy's house, yeah, uh, things
were rearranged and changed.

Paul G (11:14):
How do they know that if they weren't in there before?

Andrea (11:16):
I don't know.
But uh I guess other I don'tknow.
It said other people were awarethat things look like they were
moved, and there's a fresh coatof paint in the entry room.

Paul G (11:26):
Luminol, luminol.

Andrea (11:28):
I don't know why they didn't luminol.

Paul G (11:30):
You know, luminol is not cheap.

Andrea (11:32):
No, uh it's not.

Paul G (11:33):
But um be surprised how much luminol costs.

Andrea (11:36):
But it's just weird though, like he delayed access.
Uh like the place wasthoroughly cleaned, rearranged,
partially repainted.
That right there screams redflag.
Like you partially paintsomething, I don't know.

Paul G (11:48):
Did they just let this go?
They didn't get a warned oranything.

Andrea (11:51):
But the weird thing is, is they um the lot the reporter,
that not the reporter, but theum employer, excuse me, Dr.
Amos, went in the paper tobasically like say, I had
nothing to do with this, I don'tknow what happened.
Of course he's gonna think, buthis here's a weird quote from
him.
Nobody directly has accused meof anything, but I've been told

(12:12):
things second and third hand.
No matter what sick things aresaid, I don't let it phase me.
That's a quote in the paper.
Now, to me, that's a weirdquote.

Paul G (12:23):
Well, I mean, it could just be a dude that doesn't know
how to speak correctly as well.

Andrea (12:28):
Or it could be a narcissistic little turd and he
doesn't, he doesn't, you knowwhat I'm saying.

Paul G (12:33):
Well, just like we've we've always, you know, we've
always said just becausesomebody mouths off doesn't mean
they did anything.

Andrea (12:42):
That's true.
I mean, you have a very validpoint, but it's just like poof,
there's no fibers, there's nobody, there's no nothing.
And this poor family, um, inthe paper I've been reading,
like when in other or resources,very much hooked up with the
Morgan Nick Foundation and havethese vigils pretty frequently,
you know, in Pine Bluff andother parts of the state to try
to advertise this case, but it'slike it went nowhere.

(13:03):
Like there's like poof, it'sshe's gone.
And I find that strange.
Like, how can someone justdisappear?
Like, there has to be somethingthat can lead you to that.
But if you go into a houseseveral days later or weeks
later, you can't the evidence isgone.
But why didn't they go in thereright away?
That's the plat last they werethe last people to see her.

(13:26):
That's what I don't understand.

Paul G (13:27):
The good news is luminol is actually not as expensive as
it used to be.

Andrea (13:31):
Oh, really?

Paul G (13:32):
When it first came out, it was fifteen hundred bucks for
like a half liter.
Now you can get it for liketwenty bucks for a little bitty
spray bottle, probably aboutfour ounces.

Andrea (13:42):
I don't know why they didn't pull anything, yeah.

Paul G (13:45):
I mean, all they had to do is spray it once.

Andrea (13:47):
It'll go, I mean but in 2012 they were doing some
remodeling on this house.
Or I don't I don't know if theowners have moved on.
I couldn't really find anythingon that.
But the insulation inside awall had blood, and a warrant
was issued, the blood wascollected, but the investigator

(14:07):
left the tubes of all thatevidence in his car overnight.

Paul G (14:13):
So was it in the middle of summer?

Andrea (14:16):
I could all it said was because he left it overnight,
they were unable to pull thenpull any evidence.

Paul G (14:20):
It's chain of evidence, chain of chain of evidence,
probably.

Andrea (14:23):
But don't chain of evidence, you pick up the
evidence and you walked awayfrom it, it was unguarded.
But he left it in his car andhe didn't take it to be ran.
How do you do that?
You know what I'm saying?
It's like our I know peoplemake fun of our state
constantly, but there's areason.
Well, this is a prime example,though.

Paul G (14:45):
Right.

Andrea (14:45):
What did I mean, and I if anybody listening that's like
part of this investigation, ifyou have something else to say,
please by all means reach out tous because you know Yeah, yeah,
yeah.

Paul G (14:53):
We want to hear from you.
We we're we are only able to gooff with public record.

Andrea (14:57):
Yeah, and we could FOIA until the cows come home in
Arkansas, which I understandtheir position.
They don't want to they want tohold on to things until things
are solved.

Paul G (15:06):
All right, so I I asked chat GPT here to just tell me
how this chain of custody stuffworks.

Andrea (15:13):
It's it's extremely important because you can get
somebody, you know, notconvinced.

Paul G (15:17):
The lead investigator prep placed the evidence in the
trunk of his personal vehicle,took it home, stored it
overnight, delivered it to thecrime lab the following day.
That's not a minor paperworkarea, that's a hard break in
standard evidence handling.

Andrea (15:29):
I would think so, yeah.

Paul G (15:31):
Chain of custody exists to answer one brutal question.
Can you prove no one alteredit?
Uh hit left his con is storedin a non-secure environment, and
that's what he did.
They consider a locked trunk inyour car to be non-secured.

Andrea (15:45):
But if you think about it, say if they got a DNA hit on
that, they couldn't use thatbecause the chain of custody was
messed up.

Paul G (15:51):
Yeah.

Andrea (15:51):
Correct?
Am I correct?

Paul G (15:52):
Yeah, they they actually said the Arkansas State Crime
Lab reported there's no blood orusable forensic material on the
tested items.

Andrea (16:00):
Which is mind-blowing to me.

Paul G (16:02):
Maybe it wouldn't blood after all.
Maybe it was just like paint orsomething.

Andrea (16:05):
Yeah.
I mean, but the only thing Icouldn't find much else about
this case, which is mind-blowingto me because it says 94, it's
the beginning of some stuff.
I would think we'd findsomething, but the last place
she was in was a house andpeople cleaned up.
I think you probably havenothing.
But you have a family that'smissing their daughter and they

(16:26):
don't know what happened.

Paul G (16:27):
I mean, there's there's nobody other than the owner of
the business to say that she gotpicked up by somebody.

Andrea (16:33):
Yeah, him and his wife.
Yeah.
Which, if okay, I hate to saythis, and uh this is just
speculation.
I'm not accusing anybody ofanything, I'm not saying
anything.

Paul G (16:41):
Yeah, we don't really know.

Andrea (16:42):
We don't know.
But if he did do something toher, and his wife could be
threatened or maybe she's a partof it, I mean, I d I'm not
saying that she is.
This is a hypotheticalscenario, so nobody come after
us.
But it's just two people andthis girl's gone.

Paul G (16:57):
I mean it's it's uh investigation one-on-one.
Uh the last person to be to bewith uh Clashindra is the person
that's of interest right now.

Andrea (17:13):
Yeah, they're still a topic.

Paul G (17:15):
Because they control the environment.

Andrea (17:16):
Yeah, exactly.

Paul G (17:17):
They provided the only narrative of the exit.
They delayed the lawenforcement's access to the
house and they altered theinterior problem.
And they may have altered theinterior before police could
document it.
And that's breaks everythingright there.
All of that breaks it.
And until you figure that out,there's nobody else that can be

(17:41):
a suspect.

Andrea (17:42):
No, there's still a twenty thousand dollar reward,
last I can find on this person.
I mean, whoever has informationor whatever can lead to the
thing.

Paul G (17:48):
It didn't mean they did anything.
They could be completelyinnocent, but at the same time,
that's that's what you gotta do.
You gotta you gotta go, yougotta take a run with the police
and and see what the hell theyknow.

Andrea (17:59):
But I would think if uh we worked out of our home here
and somebody came here and thendisappeared, and we knew that
they like went in the car andleft.
I think I'd be letting thepolice in immediately.

Paul G (18:11):
I yeah, what's it matter?

Andrea (18:13):
I would be like, I have nothing to do with this.
Yeah, come on, come raid myhouse, turn it upside down.

Paul G (18:18):
Don't turn it upside down.
You can look though, just be,you know, come on.

Andrea (18:22):
But you would be screaming to the rooftops, come
look to prove yourself in ascreen.

Paul G (18:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrea (18:27):
That's the weird part.

Paul G (18:29):
I want to know why did it why did it take so long to
get searched?

Andrea (18:33):
The only thing I can think of is she's 18 and maybe
be I don't know.
I know in the 70s and 80s itwas that whole 72-hour role
before they do anything.
This is the 90s.
I didn't know if that stillapplied.
Or she's 18 and they figuredshe just ran off her own fool,
you know, her own will and thatkind of thing.
I mean, who knows?

Paul G (18:49):
I think they probably the the Cade Mercer uh AI thinks
that there was since there wasno body, she was a legal adult,
there's no sign of forcedinjury, there's no sign of
fighting, no immediate blood oror violence reported, then what
are they gonna do?

Andrea (19:08):
But they could have at least gone in to see that.

Paul G (19:10):
They had no probable cause.

Andrea (19:13):
I would think a person's missing is probable.

Paul G (19:17):
But I don't know, we walked out.
Can I take a look?
No, I really don't want you tolook.

Andrea (19:21):
Well, I could see that too.
If they say that, then what areyou gonna do?

Paul G (19:25):
Yeah, and there's no probable cause there.
You have no reason to believethat person left any evidence
behind because you don't know ofa crime that's there's no crime
that's been been committed.

Andrea (19:35):
It's just a sad thing for this family because they'll
never know what happened totheir daughter.

Paul G (19:38):
It sucks.
But you know, the problem isthose things are those rules are
here to be fair, and they're tobe fair because we don't want
to send anybody to jail who'sinnocent.

Andrea (19:47):
And that's true.
That's why we have these,unlike England.
That's pretty much why weadopted them, correct?

Paul G (19:52):
Yes.
A lot of it, yeah.
And I I can't it's rough, but Ijust I just

Andrea (20:00):
Find it so mind blowing.
I guess I would like to thinkthat people have more humanity
and and compassion.

Paul G (20:07):
Yeah, I would've let them in.
So come in and look, man.

Andrea (20:09):
That would have been like uh whatever you need, I'll
do it.
But I don't know what PineBluff was like in '94.
Maybe it was rough.
Maybe it was rough.

Paul G (20:18):
I was I did it was not nice.
I mean there was sections oftown that were good, but there
were sections of the town thatwere absolutely horde.

Andrea (20:29):
I could think if I was in that time frame, I would be
scared to let any of lawenforcement in.

Paul G (20:34):
The 90s is especially if you're a minority, which we
don't know.

Andrea (20:37):
She's African American.
Well, I don't know if the co Idon't know if the um player was.

Paul G (20:42):
I wouldn't trust them either.
You know what I mean?
I mean, I I don't trust thecops enough now.
And I'm a white dude in a whiteneighborhood.

Andrea (20:52):
I would like to believe they wouldn't do anything, but
like I said, that's as I'm Oh.

Paul G (20:57):
I've seen way too many people get their asses handed to
them for trusting the wrongpeople.

Andrea (21:03):
Well nowadays, if you do anything stupid like that, I'll
end up on the TikTok.

Paul G (21:09):
It's Florida, man.

Andrea (21:11):
If anyone's people need to watch that, what channel's
that on?
HBO.
HBO, it's awesome.
You guys gotta watch that.

Paul G (21:16):
Adam Devine was on there.
He was a very high man who wentand raided a little Caesars.

Andrea (21:23):
Oh, that show makes you laugh.

Paul G (21:24):
And that the rabbit thing.

Andrea (21:26):
It's based on real things, and it's like Florida
man.
There's a reason why there'sFlorida man.

Paul G (21:31):
So they still don't know anything about it, and they're
probably not gonna know anythingabout this unless somebody
recants or they find a body.

Andrea (21:37):
Yeah, which is really sad.
That's what I'm saying.
There's not a whole lot, but Iwas like very mind-blown by it.
Like, there's got to besomething.
You know what I'm saying?
Something.

Paul G (21:48):
Well, the problem is too, if you're not in the right
clique sometimes, especially inthe south, and remember in 94,
you think 94, okay, that'spretty normal.
That's pretty, you know, that'snewer, newer.
No, it's not.
My grandfather was still aroundin 94.
I was going down there toStuttgart, which is not too far
away from Pine Bluff.
And must my grandfather wouldhelp you, my grandfather would

(22:11):
be a nice guy, my grandfatherand my par and my family would
help you out.
And my grandfather did helppeople out in the way he was
taught that he should help youout.
For example, there was a verypoor lady who happened to be a
minority, but remember mygrandfather was born in the 20s,
so we have to take it for whatit is.
And what he did is he would gofishing, and he'd catch a bunch

(22:36):
of fish, take them to her house,and she'd clean all the fish.
He'd take half of them, leavehalf of them with her, and he
didn't have to pay her forcleaning them.
But she had food.

Andrea (22:47):
Yeah.

Paul G (22:48):
And for years, that's the only way that woman ate was
when people went and fished andbrought her fish.
Because she didn't have anymoney.

Andrea (22:55):
Oh wow.

Paul G (22:56):
But she didn't have any money because she was a minority
and there wasn't any jobs forher to do.
Because she was a minority,she's a female, she's in the
Stuttgart population of 10,000in a deep ass south.

Andrea (23:13):
Yeah.

Paul G (23:14):
So you know, she had a bunch of kids and everything, so
she's doing her thing.
So in in 94, that mentality wasstill the top of the dog
mentality.
It wasn't like now, where yougo down there and good luck,
everybody it's game on foreverybody.

Andrea (23:32):
Yeah.

Paul G (23:33):
And it doesn't matter, and and people who say, well,
that's still racist.
No, it's racist, but it's it'sruns both ways now, trust me.
Uh I can give you all kinds ofstories of how it goes racist
against the minorities andracists against the whites.
Trust me.
It it runs both ways,especially now.

Andrea (23:51):
During Northwest Arkansas, I don't ever run into
it.

Paul G (23:53):
Yeah, we don't run into it very much.
We run into anti-Mexican stuff.
And that's because Springdalehas a 50% uh uh immigrant
population.

Andrea (24:05):
Yeah.

Paul G (24:05):
And it it it annoys a lot of people.
It's that's not so much racismthat it's just it's a cultural
clash with a little bit ofracism sprinkled in it because
it's one of those things.
But down in Deep South, we'retalking the real deal.
We're talking Jim Crow's andthe whole nine yards.
It was bad.

(24:26):
My grandfather was quiteracist, but he didn't know how
else to be.
That's how he was raised.

Andrea (24:32):
I think our grandparents were that way.

Paul G (24:34):
Not as bad as my grandpa.

Andrea (24:36):
Yeah.
All right, our next case.

Paul G (24:39):
But uh no, so it's because she was minority in
ninety-four, it's more thanlikely they didn't care because
she's minority in ninety-fourand she ran off.
She just ran away.

Andrea (24:58):
I would like to hope that that's the case.

Paul G (25:01):
She didn't run away, probably.
She probably did.

Andrea (25:03):
She probably didn't run away, but you know.

Paul G (25:04):
But that's how the cops treated it more than likely.
I would say that's a goodhypothesis.

Andrea (25:10):
Yeah.

Paul G (25:10):
Because knowing Pine Bluff the way I do, because I
was there in 1994, cops didn'tcare.
And as you know with the WestMemphis 3, which is not that far
away from Pine Bluff, the copsdo what they think is right, not

(25:30):
what is right.

Andrea (25:31):
And that was in the 90s, too, West Memphis 3.

Paul G (25:33):
Yes, it was 94, 93, something like that.

Andrea (25:35):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, it's all in themixture of that.

Paul G (25:38):
Yeah, it's all in the mixture of that, and and
forensics be damned, we're gonnaput in jail who we want.
That's the mentality of the sthe state at the time.

Andrea (25:50):
It's just awful.

Paul G (25:51):
It is awful.
So it's more than likely shewas killed and they didn't care
because there wasn't anybody.
So they just walked off andforgot about it.
And now people are like, whatthe hell?
Now I could be completelywrong.
I don't know what happened.

Andrea (26:08):
But I'd like to think that the family would have
closure, but I don't thinkthey're going to.

Paul G (26:11):
Well, closure's a fallacy anyway.
You never get closure forsomebody if something's ripped
apart from you.

Andrea (26:17):
That's true.
But a sense of at leastknowing.

Paul G (26:20):
Yeah.
That's different.

Andrea (26:22):
Well, now we're gonna take the next case and we're
gonna go back to 1978.

Paul G (26:26):
Where is this at?

Andrea (26:28):
This is Mary Bobo or Jimmy Shin, S-H-I-N-N.
Now she was reported missing onJuly 20th, 1978.
And this is she was inMagnolia, which you would know
where Magnolia is at more than Iam.

Paul G (26:45):
Maybe.

Andrea (26:47):
Where is it at?

Paul G (26:48):
I'm looking it up here.
Uh, do do she was 25.
Yeah, and and no, she was notAsian.
She was a white girl.

Andrea (26:58):
She was white.
Unfortunately, you know, I meanit's female, obviously.
But this lady was, believe itor not, she had an art studio
and she would teach art.

Paul G (27:09):
It sounded like she might be Asian because it's a
shin.
You never know.

Andrea (27:13):
Oh, I didn't even think about that.
Yeah.
So she was also an art teacher.
She liked uh teach art, she hadher own studio, and she's kind
of freelancing on the side,trying to sell a house.
So she was scheduled to meet aprospective client on the 19th.
And he was going to meet herthere.
And basically, what he wastrying to do is he was trying to

(27:34):
to convince her to basicallylike, I will give if you give me
that house, then I will giveyou a parcel of land.

Paul G (27:41):
Oh wow.

Andrea (27:42):
Kind of thing.
And she basically didn't thinkthat this would go through, this
would work.
It seemed to be an okaytransaction.
He didn't seem creepy to her.
And so they went about theirday.
Then he calls again on the20th, just as July 20th.
Said he wants to see the houseagain, but his car is in the
shop.
So she picks him up at an easymart, which this is 78.

Paul G (28:05):
I wouldn't pick Magnolia, Arkansas is down deep
south, Arkansas, almostFreeport.
Uh, it's down on the same planeas El Dorado.
And no, it's not El Dorado,it's El Dorado, Arkansas.
I know.
It's spelled the same as ElDorado, but it's El Dorado.
El Dorito?

(28:26):
No.
It'd be in between uh inbetween uh Texarcana and El
Dorado or Oh, so it's down downthere.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's cross, it's the only thinglower.

Andrea (28:37):
So, you know, so she's thinking, okay, it's but it's in
the mountains.

Paul G (28:40):
It's it's not mountains, but it's rough hills.
It's not plains like in the thestate cuts off right about
Camden, El Dorado, to where it'sanything east of Camden and El
Dorado is gonna be flat.
Anything west of Camden, ElDorado is gonna be hard hills.

Andrea (28:58):
Oh, I've never been down there.
Yeah, yeah.
So you know, she meets him at anEasyMart.
She can pick him up, take himto the house.

Paul G (29:05):
Easy Mart is a gas station in the south.

Andrea (29:08):
Yeah.

Paul G (29:08):
Which is very it was kind of Easy Mart was the uh
come and go or Maverick of theday, Casey's of the day.

Andrea (29:16):
Now I remember this is a totally off subject, but it's a
little it I'll find thisinteresting.
You think like EasyMart, 7E11swill always have gas pumps,
right?
Yeah.
When I went to college ofMichigan, there was an Easy Mart
there slash 7 Eleven with nogas pumps.

Paul G (29:31):
Oh yeah.

Andrea (29:31):
I didn't even know that was a thing.

Paul G (29:32):
That's totally sidebared but there's one in Fayetteville
that doesn't have any gaspumps.

Andrea (29:36):
That's so weird.

Paul G (29:37):
It's down there, it's down there by where Donald used
to live.

Andrea (29:40):
So basically she picks a guy up, and there is a
carpenter that sees her withthis guy at the end.

Paul G (29:46):
When did she pick him up?
Do we even know?

Andrea (29:48):
He said his car was in the shop.
So she probably, I'm justmaking this strange danger.
Well, she thought, well, I methim yesterday.
He seemed okay.
Maybe he wants to see the houseagain.
No harm, no foul.
Yeah, that's where the weirdpart against.
But basically, there's acarpenter that's across the
street, sees the two of themlooking at this house between
11:30 and 12:30.

(30:10):
And then basically, she goes toshow this house with this guy
and is never seen again.

Paul G (30:16):
Where's the house at?

Andrea (30:18):
Uh let me look, I found an address.

Paul G (30:20):
It's in Magnolia.

Andrea (30:22):
Found an address.
Let me pull it up.

Paul G (30:25):
Luguli.

Andrea (30:26):
East McNeil Street, Magnolia.

Paul G (30:28):
There's not many streets in there.
Really?
Wow.
I I didn't just pulled up a maphere.
East McNeil?
Does that even exist?

Andrea (30:42):
I mean, sometimes street names change.
I mean.

Paul G (30:49):
I don't know.
Um, so she's there's MainStreet, everybody's got a main
street.
Why does everybody have to havea main street?

Andrea (30:56):
It's just easy, I guess.

Paul G (30:57):
I don't know.
Why why would you want to?
I don't care.

Andrea (31:01):
So basically I don't see a sleazy mart anymore.
Who knows?
I mean, a lot of the stuff thatwe remember around here that
were the easy marts at gasstations are no longer anything
or existing.

Paul G (31:13):
Or there's something else.
No sleazy mart.

Andrea (31:14):
This is in 78, so who knows?

Paul G (31:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Andrea (31:18):
So basically, her car is found at Smitty's grocery that
same day around five o'clockthat evening.

Paul G (31:24):
This is like downtown.

Andrea (31:26):
Yeah, I didn't look at it on the map, to be honest.

Paul G (31:29):
Well, so she's she's she's on the the the road,
right?
She's in the end up at theSmitty's.
It's basically just like one ofthose um old hometown
groceries, is what it was.
It's yeah, where it's just a abuilding on the side of the
road.
It's not a grocery store likewe know now.

Andrea (31:52):
It's probably not the same thing for them.

Paul G (31:54):
No.
But and uh so it's just and nowyou would just see this old
beat-up house, thinking, no,that's just old beat up house.
No, it used to be the grocerystore where they used to go to
get their food.

Andrea (32:05):
Yeah, interesting.
Sometimes small towns just hadlike one grocery store and that
was it.

Paul G (32:10):
Yeah, and I still can't find that road.
It's like it's disappeared.

Andrea (32:15):
Or who knows, maybe now it's renamed.

Paul G (32:17):
Yeah, it could have been like Martin Loser King Drive.
They sucked up a lot of streetsin the in the 2000s.

Andrea (32:22):
So what's weird though is inside of her car was her
purse that was dumped out on thedriver's side of the door while
wallet and cash were stillpresent.
Her white tennis shoes werejammed underneath the pedals of
the car.

Paul G (32:35):
Jammed under the pedals?

Andrea (32:36):
Yeah.
Why would Why is that jammedunder the puddles?
That's weird.
That is weird.
So basically, um anyfingerprints that they pulled
from the car don't match anybodyin any system.

Paul G (32:51):
So if you know Well back then in the 70s, too.

Andrea (32:54):
But you have to commit a crime in order for that stuff
to be in there.

Paul G (32:57):
So whoever this person is just they didn't have a
national database either at thattime.

Andrea (33:00):
But the I-49 or something like that killer is
the one that got all that uh buteven if they had these
fingerprint cards, I would thinkthat they would be put into the
system now and they're stillnot a match.

Paul G (33:10):
I don't know.

Andrea (33:12):
You know what I'm saying?
That means to me, in my head,that if this person did it,
either A, they did other crimesand wore gloves and were really
smart about it, or B, they justdidn't do anything else again to
get in.

Paul G (33:24):
Or they just left town.

Andrea (33:26):
I would think that those CODIS is national, isn't it?

Paul G (33:29):
Yeah, but CODIS is didn't exist when this happened.

Andrea (33:32):
But wouldn't previous fingerprints be put into CODIS
now?

Paul G (33:35):
Not necessarily.
Um and especially a little townlike this, if the state police
wouldn't get involved, then no.

Andrea (33:45):
The FBI got involved in this one.
I think state police gotinvolved in this one.

Paul G (33:48):
And so it should be in there.
You would think it'd eventuallyget in there.
Yeah.
I wonder how many of thesethings we could run now and and
put them back in there andthey'd pop on somebody because
they haven't done it in years.
Because, you know, why wouldthey?

Andrea (34:02):
I would think if you're a cold case unit, that'd be one
of the first things should be.

Paul G (34:05):
What was the name of that road again?

Andrea (34:06):
Uh let me find it.
It's in my notes.
It is McNeil.
Oh, where's it at?
Yes, McNeil Street.

Paul G (34:17):
East McNeil Street.
Okay.
So I'm on I so yeah.
Oh wow, that's interesting.
Okay.
Um East McNeil Street is onlyright here.
So there was a grocery store inEast McNeil, yeah.
There wasn't it it wasn'tactually, it was like right
here.

Andrea (34:35):
Yeah, the house was on East McNeil.
I don't know where the grocerystore was.

Paul G (34:38):
Well, it'd be right next door.
So the house is on East McNeil.
There's nothing there now.
They've torn down most of it.
There's only a few a handful ofthem left.

Andrea (34:50):
He's looking at Google Earth.

Paul G (34:51):
Yeah, look at the satellite.
Watching the satellite.
There's a few other uh down theroad, but the I'm sure I
imagine the store is right therebecause this is the the middle
school.
It's right there by the it'sright there by the middle
school.
So that means this was the mainpart of town at one point, and
that's where it goes on theJackson, it turns into West

(35:12):
McNeil Street.
So yeah, the grocery storewould have been right there
where they turned from east towest because that would be the
more the city center.
And there wasn't anything outthere at the time, because now
there's a there's a highway 79going around it, but there's no
houses out there, and it's notwhat in uh East McNeil doesn't
go all the way.

(35:33):
So yeah, it's definitely one ofthose little hole-in-the-wall
grocery stores that's sittingthere.
Uh that looks like it probablylooks like an old abandoned
building now or just a just aframe.

Andrea (35:45):
Well, what's weird about this case is the family got a
little frustrated, and you know,obviously they hired a private
investigator.
The private investigator, Ithink, and the police uh
basically were not communicatingwell to each other.
Uh, the private investigatorthought that he found someone
that he thought wouldpotentially be a suspect.

(36:06):
But the problem is, is it'sbeen said that a psychic called
the private investigator, fromwhat I understand, and said that
her body would be found buriedon top of the deceased inside
the casket on top of thedeceased at this particular type

(36:26):
of you know a tomb.

Paul G (36:28):
Did they dig it up?

Andrea (36:29):
They did.
Oh, geez.
The family gave permission.
They go off as a psychic.
I I thought that was like apsychic.
Okay, so basically she wasn'tin there.

Paul G (36:41):
No, of course she wasn't.

Andrea (36:42):
But here's the kicker, though.
The the the guy that was passedaway in the casket, his son
committed suicide.
Supposedly, what they've beenable to discover.
I don't know if it's true ornot, but this is what allegedly
commit suicide a couple of weeksafter Mrs.
Uh, I'm gonna call her Bobo,Mrs.
Bobo's death.

(37:02):
And so this two investigatorsthought, well, he's the one that
did it.
But when you talk to the policedepartment about it, they said
they don't have anything to linkthis gentleman to her.

Paul G (37:16):
They did find fingerprints.
That's true.

Andrea (37:19):
So the family of this person that passed away, they
didn't give your name, um,basically said was very upset
and very angry that obviously,you know, what they get their
names are slandered andslaughtered and persecuted in
the paper that they do alawsuit.

Paul G (37:39):
Oh no.

Andrea (37:40):
Yeah, which, you know, I could kind of understand their
point, but at the same time,it's like uh they did it,
probably had him dug up out ofjust courtesy and doing the
right thing and that and theother.
But I think if you're basicallyit's been in the newspapers I
was reading, these privateinvestigators gave more
information to the press and tothe public than they did the

(38:04):
police department.

Paul G (38:06):
So he's running a name for himself, obviously.

Andrea (38:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul G (38:12):
Maybe.
Maybe the cops weren'tlistening.
I don't know.
We don't really know.
That's what I want to know.

Andrea (38:18):
Uh the psychic I couldn't find, I don't think
anybody was hired.
I didn't really say much detailthat I could find, other than
the psychic, just I guess at thekindness of her heart, decided
to call this a you knowinvestigation saying this is
where she's at.
So uh it's pretty sad.

Paul G (38:33):
Um I'm sorry if you believe in that kind of stuff
and listening today, butpsychics very rarely, if any at
all, have ever panned out foranybody.

Andrea (38:45):
But it's weird though, but the family's a lawsuit was
maliciously slandered anddamaged members of the family in
the press.

Paul G (38:53):
Which family members?

Andrea (38:55):
The one of the the decedents that they dug up.
They basically were saying,you're saying our son did it, he
committed suicide.

Paul G (39:03):
But they didn't dig up his grave, did they?

Andrea (39:05):
No, he dug up his father's grave.
So they're they're upset.

Paul G (39:09):
How are they did they win that lawsuit?

Andrea (39:11):
I could not find anything about if it was
overturned.
It was probably dropped, yeah.
So they have a sketch of thisman that she was showing this
house to, and it was quoted thathe looks like thousands of
people.
He doesn't look like anybody inparticular, he doesn't have any
particular type of featuresthat can make him be known.
Uh, but one other thing that Ifound that I was kind of like

(39:33):
Chuck Norris in a hat.
Yeah, yeah.
He does.

Paul G (39:37):
He looks like Chuck Norris in a hat.

Andrea (39:38):
Yeah.
Another thing that made methink the sign of the times for
78 is it's saying in the in thenewspapers, we're looking for a
deaf mute who may have seen herleave with the man.

Paul G (39:50):
That's helpful.

Andrea (39:51):
I'm like, ouch.
Can you word that just a tadbit nicer?
Well, it's it's a 78, I know,but ouch.
You know what I'm saying?

Paul G (40:01):
Yeah, look here.
He's Mountain Man right here.
He's just a big big beard, darkhair, whatever.

Andrea (40:10):
They said he's six foot tall, has a beard.
And I'm thinking that soundslike anybody.
And I was also reading how,like, at that time they were
doing such a heavy investigationof blocking off roads.
They were like talking to allthese people that were really
trying hard to figure out what'sgoing on.
And basically it was quoted assaying, if you don't want to be,

(40:30):
you know, basicallyinvestigated, shave your beard
off.
But I'm thinking in my head, uhyeah, they're doing all they
can.
Granted, this is 78.
This is 78, you know.
This things are so muchdifferent now, but yeah.

Paul G (40:44):
Well, I I really it really annoys me the way we used
to do things.

Andrea (40:51):
Yeah.

Paul G (40:51):
Because it it if they didn't have social standing,
they didn't look for it.
Yeah.

Andrea (40:56):
Yeah.

Paul G (40:57):
You know, they this is the same thing as the other
girl.
She didn't have socialstanding, so they didn't look
for her.
She's got social standing, sothey look for her.

Andrea (41:05):
Which is wrong.

Paul G (41:06):
Yeah, it's extremely wrong.
And it's just a sign of thetimes.

Andrea (41:09):
But you know, I've heard several people say like only
white girls get on social mediaand know.

Paul G (41:14):
That's not true.
We've covered a few a lot ofthose cases we've talked about
were not white girls.

Andrea (41:21):
But we make a point to including everybody, but they've
got huge amount of press,though.
Well, Gabby, I think peoplegive the example of Gabby
Petito.

Paul G (41:30):
Well, okay.

Andrea (41:32):
I I I I I don't know.

Paul G (41:34):
Gabby Petito got a bunch of notoriety because she was
all over and she had a hugeaudience to begin with.

Andrea (41:42):
Yeah.
She did.

Paul G (41:44):
You have to understand that.
It's she had a huge audience tog to begin with.
She wasn't going around badmouthing people, she wasn't
complaining about stuff, she wasjust trying to be happy and
show her you know, show how wehow she wanted to show the world
that everything was perfect.

Andrea (42:00):
Yeah, her traveling the world, which I think with her
idea of going in a van andtraveling place, it sounds fun.

Paul G (42:05):
But down by the river.

Andrea (42:07):
Well.

Paul G (42:08):
What?

Andrea (42:09):
So we got the police department upset with the
private investigators.
The private investigatorstalking to the press, not really
talking to them.
The private investigators areaccusing somebody that the
police department doesn't thinkhave any merit or anything that
they can prove that he didanything and not even a person
of interest.
So basically, this poor girl,there is nothing, nothing.
It's like poof, shedisappeared.

Paul G (42:32):
So her car just showed up one day.

Andrea (42:35):
Yeah, she had a what was it?
A I found it.
A 1976 Buick Special that shedrove.

Paul G (42:44):
I had one of those.

Andrea (42:49):
But you know, uh, nothing to go on.
There's no fingerprints thatmatch anybody.
Her purse is dumped in the car,her wallet and everything's
there.

Paul G (42:58):
I'd like to run those fingerprints through CODIS.
No, that'd be interesting.

Andrea (43:01):
I would like to think that we've done that, but yeah.

Paul G (43:05):
Good luck.
Who knows?
We've how many times have weseen that?
Where they we think they did itand they didn't.

Andrea (43:13):
But the private investigators claim that Morris
is the man that they're umbasically who killed himself.
His last name's Morris.
I found it in my notes.
Uh, that he, which this iscircumstantial if you think
about it, match the descriptionof that was given to the police
a sketch, which if you look atthe pet sketch, if you pull it
up, he looks like every mountainman in Arkansas.

(43:35):
And he took off work the dayshe disappeared.
That doesn't mean anything.

Paul G (43:38):
It doesn't mean anything, absolutely.
I mean gotta put him there, yougotta just monstrously put him
there.
But people have gottenconvicted for way less.

Andrea (43:46):
Another thing I found out is they did, you know, Henry
Lee Lucas, the guy that waslike making he he was accused
of.

Paul G (43:53):
Well we just blame it on BTK.

Andrea (43:55):
Henry they had to investigate and look to see if
Henry Lee Lucas had a I wonderif that crazy son of a bitch
over there at the ArkansasDemocrat Gazette, if he tried to
blame this on BTK.
This lady?

Paul G (44:08):
Yeah, he blames everything on BTK.
Uh he tries to link every caseto BTK.

Andrea (44:15):
I don't think BTK left the state of Kansas.

Paul G (44:17):
I I I understand that.
I agree with you, but this guyfrom the Arkansas Democratic
Gazette, the podcast, yeah, hetries to link everything to BTK.
Every time I hear something,he's like, BTK did this, BTK.
I'm like, no, it doesn't haverhyme or reason to do with BTK.
His MO is completely differentand he doesn't change.

Andrea (44:37):
No.

Paul G (44:38):
Sorry, I might rant for today.
That kind of annoys me.

Andrea (44:41):
But I thought it was interesting.

Paul G (44:43):
He does a good job with his investigative work, but for
some reason he wants to blameeverything on BTK.

Andrea (44:48):
And I don't think BTK left Kansas.
So Wichita, Kansas, yeah.

Paul G (44:53):
Yeah.

Andrea (44:53):
So I think it's funny that they contemplated Henry Lee
Lucas because they felt likethey had a ruling mount.

Paul G (44:59):
He didn't, I couldn't I wonder if he actually ever
killed anybody.

Andrea (45:02):
I don't know.
But this I couldn't findanything saying that they
dismissed it.
Obviously, they dismissed it,so this would have been solved,
but you know, they didn't findanything in the paper, anything
I could find that, you know,they they felt like they had to
rule it out because Henry LeeLucas was making a bunch of
comments about a bunch of casesthat he was just rambling off.

(45:22):
I think.

Paul G (45:23):
Yeah, he was just going off the newspapers, if I
remember correctly.
He'd he'd find the they wouldgo and investigate him and say,
You could have found this out inthe newspaper.

Andrea (45:31):
Exactly.
But this case has been broughtup lots and lots throughout
Arkansas, even since 2011.
They still like bring up likeum a couple podcasts that have
done it besides us now.
Uh, YouTube channels.
I mean, everybody's likebrought this case up, and it's
like there's nothing else to goon other than she just poof

(45:52):
disappeared with like her lastone, which is so crazy.

Paul G (45:55):
She met a magician, yeah.

Andrea (45:57):
Poof.

Paul G (45:57):
Yeah.

Andrea (45:58):
But um, I don't know, like the guy that obviously saw
the house.
I think it's kind of strangethat he was trying to like
convincing her to like, hey,I'll give you this parcel and if
you give me this house, andthen he calls back and then
she's gone.
I mean, I would think it's hecalled back.
Yeah, remember like on the19th, he wanted to see the

(46:20):
house.
Yeah.
And then he called back on the20th, picked her up for he she
picked him up from EasyMart.
It's the same guy.

Paul G (46:26):
But did he call back after she went missing?

Andrea (46:28):
No.

Paul G (46:29):
So it's probably him.

Andrea (46:30):
Yeah, it's probably him.

Paul G (46:31):
And if it would have been the guy in town who
everybody knew, more than likelythey would have said, No, that
was Jimmy or whoever that didthis.
It's probably not even it'scould it's probably not the guy.
It's probably just some randomperson that's looking at a
house.
Yeah, because they would haverecognized him and said, Why are
you parking your car herebehind the grocery store?

(46:52):
And isn't that somebody else'scar?
Because those towns aren't thatbig.

Andrea (46:56):
Yeah, 78 people would know everybody's business.

Paul G (46:59):
But it so I'm thinking like Facebook literally was the
book you had in front of yourface.

Andrea (47:05):
Yeah.
If you think about it, this guyhad to pre-plan this.

Paul G (47:10):
No, I don't know.
It could be it could be adisorganized kill.
We don't know because we don'thave the the the body.

Andrea (47:17):
There's no body, but there's been some things in the
paper that I've read and otherthings that they they know
something is brewing, butthey're not the investigators
are not saying anything.
Like, I read something wherethey got a tip towards like
South Magnolia in um anotherlittle area of the county to go

(47:37):
dig, but nothing was said as faras what they found.
Did they find anything?
Did he find a body?
Did they find evidence?
It's like it they mention it alittle snippet and then it's
gone with it.
This year, yes.

Paul G (47:49):
Well, they may be waiting for DNA.

Andrea (47:51):
Yeah, which DNA I would imagine.

Paul G (47:52):
Is it a dog?
Is it a person?
Is it a deer?

Andrea (47:55):
Yeah, yeah.

Paul G (47:56):
You know, is it a Romulan?

Andrea (47:57):
Romulan.
They brought cadaver dogs outand stuff like that.
So they're still activelyworking this case.
I mean, they're still trying toat least are still trying.

Paul G (48:05):
They're picking up the slack for back in the day.
From you know, but I just it Ijust get annoyed because that
other girl just gone and nobodycares.

Andrea (48:14):
I know, and it's just not fair.
I guess that's what drew me tothe case, is because there's not
much kind of a dichotomybetween the two.

Paul G (48:22):
They're searching for her years later, and nobody
nobody's doing anything on theother one.

Andrea (48:27):
Which is not right.
But I guess as I I like toalways go for like the underdogs
that don't get talked about.
But the mom, from what Iunderstand in the first age.
You're the underdog.
I'll wait to see what he says.

Paul G (48:42):
I'm just gonna go on.

Andrea (48:45):
But anyways, you know, like uh she tried the mom's been
trying, the mom tries in thiscase.
I mean, they're all likeactively getting out there, but
it kind I guess that's why Ikeep looking into Arkansas, it's
because how many other caseshave gotten such injustice
because of race, wealth, wealth,yeah, you know, that kind of
stuff.
Like, and it makes me like uhfreaking afraid of like

(49:08):
everything in a way, like to becareful, you know, like 78,
everybody was hitchhiking.
Yeah, 70.
Like, I remember my parents.
This is the part that like youremember your parents.
Wait, mind blown me about thiscase.
So she's seeing a house, right?
I remember being a little kid,you know, uh I should say
little, maybe like elementary,junior high, and my parents

(49:29):
getting in the realtor's car andlet's go driving around our
houses and how innocent thatwas.
You know, they still do ittoday, they still do it today,
too.
But this is a lady who's tryingto flip a house, she's trying
to sell a house, you know, she'sgetting all excited, she's an
art teacher.

Paul G (49:42):
Everybody knows her.

Andrea (49:43):
And boom, she's gone.
Because she does, she's in avulnerable position because she
picks this guy up in hervehicle.
You know, she does a meetingthere.

Paul G (49:54):
This is how horror movies start.

Andrea (49:56):
Yeah, more or less.

Paul G (49:58):
Yeah.

Andrea (49:58):
But yeah, so those are my two stories.
If you don't have anyinformation, please call the
Arkansas State Police.
Um I don't think anybody.
Hopefully somebody I don'tknow.
Maybe somebody's listeningmight have some information.
It would be nice to know thatwe're doing something positive.

Paul G (50:15):
Well, we're talking about them.

Andrea (50:17):
That's what counts.

Paul G (50:20):
Oh, what's her name again?
The very vowel-filled pinebluff name.

Andrea (50:29):
Miss Hall.

Paul G (50:30):
Yeah, Miss Hall.
Mrs.

Andrea (50:31):
Hall.

Paul G (50:31):
Yeah.
Uh that's the one somebodyneeds to go to that house and
dig it out again.

Andrea (50:37):
Yeah.

Paul G (50:37):
If you own that house, if you know somebody who owns
that house.
I mean if it's still standing,it needs to be searched again.
Because more than likely she'sunder the baseboards or in the
backyard.

Andrea (50:51):
Yeah, or somewhere.

Paul G (50:53):
I I would I would want to rule that out.

Andrea (50:56):
But it makes me think of like, you know, watching your
neighbors are they bringingweird stuff out of the trash
can, you know.

Paul G (51:02):
Florida man.

Andrea (51:03):
Florida man.
Thank God we're not Floridaman.

Paul G (51:05):
Well that, you know, the the devil worshippers next
door, and he just happens to bea sheriff deputy, so you can't
do anything about it.

Andrea (51:11):
Go watch Florida man.

Paul G (51:14):
It's very, very troubling.

Andrea (51:16):
Yeah.

Paul G (51:17):
The peep things people do.
The only reason why we don'thave Arkansas Man is because
Arkansas does not require us touh publish within 20 uh 48 hours
what's been going on.
It we're privacy state, no oneknows.
But in Florida, they have totell you immediately when
somebody's going to jail.

Andrea (51:35):
Which is why sometimes researching these podcasts for
Arkansas have been challenging.

Paul G (51:38):
It's very difficult because they don't talk about
squat.

Andrea (51:42):
But we get what we can.
But if anybody does have anyinformation about these cases or
other information, please reachout to us because we would love
to get we we do our darndest toget as much as we can.

Paul G (51:51):
But the problem what we have is we, you know, Andrew's
got a day job in I don't havethe fundage to run after like
the like the one guy for theArkansas Democrat gazette.
He gets paid a salary to dothat.
I do not.
We do not.
We we we we cost us, we had topay forty dollars to be able to

(52:12):
go on air today.

Andrea (52:13):
We do this because we care about these cases, we care
about people.
Well, it's interesting to andit's interesting, and we like to
try to do something positive.

Paul G (52:22):
Andrew's only hobby.

Andrea (52:25):
Maybe, I don't know.

Paul G (52:26):
That's nutcrackers.

Andrea (52:28):
Yes.

Paul G (52:28):
You got a nutcracker bug today.

Andrea (52:30):
Yes, I did.

Paul G (52:32):
You enjoy that.

Andrea (52:33):
I think you can contribute to my nutcracker fun.

Paul G (52:35):
No, I don't I don't have nutcrackers.

Andrea (52:38):
I have like 40 of them on the code.

Paul G (52:39):
I'm I'm I'm collecting my most favorite thing to
collect.
I told your son, remember?
Dead residents.
I enjoy collecting deadpresidents, yes.

Andrea (52:49):
Money, yeah.

Paul G (52:50):
Pictures of dead residents.
I really enjoy Washington, butyou know, Franklin is is is more
what I'm looking for thesedays.
If I can find some Franklin's,then I'll find some Franklin's,
some bills.
Yeah.
Jefferson's okay.
I mean, this what you should dothough is you should if you
should get like six or fiveJeffersons together and go get a

(53:14):
p Franklin.
Send the Franklin.

Andrea (53:17):
Contribute to Paul's uh president's fund.

Paul G (53:20):
Yes, my my presidential memorial.
Yes.

Andrea (53:25):
You're so funny.
What?
So if anybody has any ideas forcases, please shoot us a line.
Uh at Paul G atPaulgnewton.com.

Paul G (53:34):
Yeah.
She doesn't have an emailaddress because she didn't want
one.

Andrea (53:37):
It's not that.
It's just um You don't wantone.
I don't want to.

Paul G (53:42):
And it costs more money too.
It costs another $175 a year toget you an email address.

Andrea (53:46):
Why don't we just do something off Yahoo?
It's free.

Paul G (53:48):
No, because it's gotta have Paul Gnewton.com.
Because that's where you'resupposed to go.
That's where everything's at.

Andrea (53:55):
Yes, his swag.

Paul G (53:56):
Our swag, we have like stories, other podcasts, Paul
G's Corner.
It's all living right there.
Plus, you can see what I looklike and go, oh, what a handsome
man.

Andrea (54:06):
Um, he's married, guys.

Paul G (54:08):
Yeah, especially the guys.

Andrea (54:09):
I don't I'm not girls, he's married.

Paul G (54:11):
Girls.
Yeah, squid wars of the SquidWars of 2175 or whatever it is.
Yeah.
We must remember that date inthe future.

Andrea (54:18):
Yeah.

Paul G (54:19):
We must commiserate that future date.

Andrea (54:22):
And the Walmart, um CSI parking lot.
Wish anybody from Arkansaswould probably find that funny,
especially around here.

Paul G (54:27):
I put up a a Christmas one as well.
Christmas t-shirt.

Andrea (54:31):
Oh yeah.

Paul G (54:32):
Yeah.
But the bit the biggest thingwe really need right now is we
just need feedback.
If you guys could just, youknow, tell us what you actually
think about the episodes.
Or go listen to Paul G'sCorner, where I actually do some
pretty cool stuff.

Andrea (54:44):
He does.
He gets some cool stories ofstuff that I didn't even know
remotely happened in history.

Paul G (54:49):
Or Hawaii uh went under a nuclear missile threat for
about 38 minutes until somebodyfinally said, Oh, never mind.

Andrea (54:58):
Oopsie.
I don't know my Twitterpassword.

Paul G (55:01):
Yeah.
They were gonna they were gonnatell everybody it wasn't it was
okay, it was safe, but theyforgot their Twitter password
and they couldn't recall thealert for the bull incoming
ballistic missiles.

Andrea (55:12):
They weren't real, but people thought they were.

Paul G (55:14):
Well, it's because it said, This is not a drill on the
alert that you send like youget a weather alert on your
phone, thunderstorm.
Yeah, you know, they sent thatout.

Andrea (55:24):
That's I mean, that's not hilarious, but it is
hilarious at all.

Paul G (55:27):
Oh my god.
That's kind of that kind ofmoment.

Andrea (55:30):
Yep.

Paul G (55:30):
All right.
What else?
Wait, anything else coming up?

Andrea (55:34):
Uh Christmas.
Yeah, I haven't thought aboutother cases yet.
I haven't looked.
Well, I GPT sometimes gives usfake cases, so we're gonna Yeah,
yeah, you gotta watch out.

Paul G (55:44):
Cade Mercer lies.
The lying liar.

Andrea (55:49):
I agree with that.

Paul G (55:50):
Lying liar.

Andrea (55:51):
You gotta fact check.

Paul G (55:54):
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.

Andrea (55:57):
AI is only as good as I guess it wants to be.

Paul G (55:59):
It's getting worse right now.
It got better for a while, nowit's getting worse again.
It comes when they update it,sometimes they break it.

Andrea (56:07):
Anything that you update on a computer or anything,
whether it's work or personal,something breaks.

Paul G (56:11):
Yeah.

Andrea (56:12):
It's it's very frustrating at work.

Paul G (56:15):
At work?

Andrea (56:16):
Yes.
Whenever they do an update, Icringe.
Oh, it's a good thing.
Because something's gonnabreak.

Paul G (56:20):
I was like, they're not using AI at the hospitals.

Andrea (56:23):
I don't know, they might.
Some of our software kind ofis.

Paul G (56:26):
Yeah, I can see that.
All right.
I don't know.
Send us money.
That's what I need.
Actually, we're what we needyou to do is share.

Andrea (56:34):
Share us.
Give us five stars, give usfeedback.
Big share.
Or if you give us one star,tell us.

Paul G (56:39):
We need more people to listen.

Andrea (56:40):
Yeah.
Share it.
Share it with your friends.

Paul G (56:42):
I don't know if I want to keep doing this and nobody's
gonna listen.

Andrea (56:45):
Uh, it takes a while for things to hit.

Paul G (56:47):
We've been doing it since 2001.

Andrea (56:49):
Yeah, but 2021.
We took a hiatus for a bit.

Paul G (56:51):
Yeah, but I was doing it for a year before that.
Two years before that.

Andrea (56:55):
Well, that's true.

Paul G (56:56):
All right, I gotta pee real bad.
So we gotta go now.

Andrea (56:59):
Bye.

Paul G (57:00):
Bye.