October 13, 2025 • 23 mins
Look around your executive team. How many of you were external hires? Every hand goes up.
Now show me how many managers you have promoted from front-line positions.
Zero. Not one. Crickets.
Host Colby Morris shares the devastating boardroom moment that exposed why one organization could not stop the turnover bleeding. When every leadership opening goes external, you are sending your team a clear message - there is no path forward for you here.
This episode transforms succession planning from a once-a-year document gathering dust into a living breathing process that builds real leadership bench strength. Discover why promoting your best performer without asking first can backfire spectacularly (the Michael Jordan Problem), Patrick Lencioni's three characteristics for identifying future leaders, and how to weave development into one-on-ones and annual reviews so it actually happens.
Learn the CFO COO conversation that reframes training investment, the three integration points that make succession planning real, and how to prevent favoritism while building genuine leadership bench strength.
Whether you're losing top talent because they see no future or struggling to fill leadership roles internally, this episode gives you the practical systems to develop your people intentionally and create clear paths forward.
- What role do one-on-ones play in succession planning and employee development?
- How do I know if someone wants leadership or prefers being an individual contributor?
- What should I look for when hiring people I can develop into future leaders?
- How do I make succession planning a living process instead of an annual document?
- How do I build leadership bench strength without playing favorites or showing favoritism?
- Why are all my leadership positions filled by external hires instead of internal promotions?
- What's the difference between high performance and actual leadership potential?
- How do I create career paths for individual contributors who don't want management?
- How do I prevent favoritism when identifying and developing future leaders?
- Why is consistent external hiring hurting my employee morale retention and engagement?
CONNECT WITH COLBY MORRIS
Keynote speaking executive coaching and team training
Website nxtstepadvisors.com
LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/colbymorris
ABOUT THINGS LEADERS DO
Practical people-first leadership strategies for managers who want real results. Host Colby Morris founder of NXT Step Advisors shares insights from his executive coaching practice to help you build stronger teams develop future leaders and create workplaces where people see a path forward.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
People first leadership.
Actionable strategies, realresults.
This is Things Leaders Do withColby Morris.
SPEAKER_01 (00:11):
I'm sitting in a boardroom with an executive
team.
They brought me in because theirturnover numbers are through the
roof, and they can't figure outwhy.
I've spent the last two weeksinterviewing their frontline
managers and their employees.
And I've heard the same thingover and over and over again.
(00:31):
Why would I stay here?
There's no path forward.
Every management opening goes toan external hire.
So I'm presenting my findings tothe executive board and I ask
them really a simple question.
How many of you are externalhires?
Every single hand goes up aroundthe table.
I let him sit with that for asecond.
(00:54):
Look around the room.
Look at all those hands.
Then I said, Now keep your handsup, and using your fingers, show
me how many managers and leaderson your team were promoted from
frontline positions.
The hands stay up, but nobody'sputting up any fingers.
They're looking at each other,looking at their hands, trying
(01:17):
to think of someone, anyone, andcoming up empty.
If you don't have anyone you'vepromoted from a frontline
position, put your hand down, Isaid.
One by one, every single handgoes down.
Then I looked at the CEO.
We'll call him Daryl.
I said, Daryl, would you mindlooking around the room and
counting up the total number ofinternal promotions we're
(01:40):
looking at in here?
Daryl looks around the room.
No hands.
No fingers.
Nothing.
He just says quietly, zero.
So I let that sit for a moment.
Then I ask them one morequestion.
(02:01):
So, how exactly are yourfrontline employees supposed to
be incentivized to do betterwork when they can see there's
absolutely no path forward forthem in here?
Crickets.
You can literally hear the pindrop in the room.
That's the moment thateverything clicked for them.
(02:24):
Hey leaders, this is ColbyMorris, and this is Things
Leaders Do.
Today we're talking aboutsuccession planning.
Not the one and done documentsitting in, you know, some
drawer somewhere, but theliving, breathing process that
either builds your benchstrength or destroys your team's
morale.
(02:45):
Let me tell you what's brokenabout how more most
organizations approachsuccession planning.
They treat it like a compliancecheckbox.
Once a year, maybe during youknow strategic planning, someone
says, you know, hey, we shouldprobably update our succession
plan.
So they pull out a document,update a few names, follow it
(03:07):
away, and they forget about itfor another 12 months.
Yeah, that's that's notsuccession planning.
That's a fairy tale you'retelling yourself so you can
sleep at night.
Real succession planning, it'swoven into everything you do.
It's part of your one-on-ones.
It's integrated into your annualreviews, it's it's a factor in
(03:28):
your hiring decisions.
It's a living, breathing part ofhow you develop your people
every single day.
But here's what happens in mostorganizations.
And tell me if I'm missing this,but in most organizations, you
hire people to fill seats, notto develop future leaders.
(03:49):
You promote people based onwho's available right now, not
who you've been intentionallydeveloping.
And when a leadership positionopens up, you panic and look
externally because you haven'tbuilt any bench strength
internally, and your team seesall of this.
They watch you hire externallyover and over and over again.
(04:12):
They read the writing on thewall.
There's no future for me here.
Now, here's one of the biggestmistakes I see leaders make with
succession planning, and I callit the Michael Jordan problem.
And you've probably heard metalk about this a few times.
You have someone on your teamwho's, you know, crushing it.
(04:32):
They're your top performer, yourgo-to.
They exceed literally everymetric.
They're reliable, they'retalented, they work hard, and
everyone loves working withthem.
So naturally, you assume theywant to be promoted to
leadership, right?
They're so good at what they do,obviously they want to lead a
(04:53):
team.
Wrong.
Some people just want to beMichael Jordan.
They want to be the best playeron the court.
They don't want to be PhilJackson.
They don't want to coach.
They just want to play.
Here's what happens when youpromote a person into leadership
without having a conversationfirst about it.
(05:14):
You lose a great individualcontributor, and you gain a, I
don't know, mediocre maybe, orworse, a miserable manager.
And why?
Because you have to startholding that leader to a new set
of standards that they probablyweren't even trained for, they
(05:35):
are unaccustomed to, and worse,never wanted to begin with.
So they fell as a manager, andif you have to let them go, now
you're out a manager, and youlost your best performer in the
process.
As the great philosopher Dr.
Phil says, how's that workingfor?
(05:56):
I've seen this play out so manytimes.
You take your best salesperson,you make them sales manager.
Suddenly, they're not sellinganymore.
They're managing.
They're in meetings all day.
They're they're dealing withperformance issues, they're
doing one-on-ones and annualreviews, and they hate it.
Within six months, they're, youknow, either struggling in the
(06:20):
role or they leave to gosomewhere else.
They can just do the workthey're actually good at and
enjoy.
You've got to have theconversation.
And not just once.
This needs to be an ongoingdialogue in your one-on-ones.
Where do you see yourself inthree to five years?
Do you want to lead people or doyou want to keep growing as an
(06:40):
individual contributor?
What does success look like foryou?
And here's the key.
You've got to create paths forboth.
Not everyone needs to go intomanagement to advance their
career.
You need senior individualcontributor roles.
You need ways for people to growtheir influence, their
(07:00):
compensation, and their impactwithout managing people.
Because if the only path forwardis leadership, you're going to
force a lot of great individualcontributors into leadership
roles they never wanted.
And you're going to create a lotof bad leaders in the process.
So, how do you actually makesuccession planning a living,
(07:22):
breathing part of yourorganization instead of a
document that sits in a drawer?
I'm going to give you threeintegration points to help you
do that.
Integration point number one isyour one-on-ones.
This is where successionplanning actually happens.
Not in the annual strategicplanning retreat.
Okay.
(07:42):
It's in your weekly or yourbi-weekly one-on-ones with your
team.
You should be having careerdevelopment conversations
regularly.
Not once a year during reviewtime, but you know, ongoing.
Now, I have a whole series onone-on-ones, how they're done,
the cadence, the questions toask, the whole process.
If you haven't listened to thatseries yet, go back and check it
(08:05):
out.
Because if you want to makesuccession planning actually
work, you have to know yourone-on-ones.
That's where this stuff becomesreal.
In these conversations, you'reasking things like, what skills
are you working on developing?
What experiences would help yougrow?
What areas do you want to learnmore about?
And here's what's critical: you're not asking these (08:25):
undefined
questions to just check a box.
You're asking because you'regenuinely invested in developing
your people, whether they stayin your organization or not.
People first leaders developtheir people, even if it means
they eventually leave for biggeropportunities somewhere else.
(08:46):
Because when you develop people,word gets around.
And suddenly you're attractingthe kind of talent that wants to
grow, not just collects apaycheck.
There's an old story that's beentold through the years.
You've probably heard it, butthe CFO goes to the COO and
says, I want to talk about themoney we're spending on training
our employees.
(09:08):
The COO answers, Well, what'sthe problem?
The CFO says, Well, if we spendall this money on training those
employees and they leave, thenwhat?
And the COO responds with, Yeah,but what if we don't train them
and they stay?
That's the choice you're making.
Do you want untrained,undeveloped people who can't
(09:31):
grow?
Or do you want to invest in yourpeople?
And yes, sometimes they'll leavefor bigger opportunities, but
while they're with you, they'reexcellent.
And the ones who stay becomeyour leaders.
All right, integration pointnumber two is your annual
reviews.
Your annual review processshould include a development
(09:52):
plan.
Not just here's how you performthis year, but here's where you
want to go, and here's how we'regoing to help you get there.
What skills do they need todevelop?
What experiences do they need togain?
What projects could they leadthat would stretch them?
Who could they shadow or learnfrom?
And then, this is where mostorganizations fall apart.
(10:15):
You actually follow through onthat development plan.
It's a novel concept.
You don't just write it down andforget about it.
You reference it in yourone-on-ones.
You create opportunities thatalign with it.
You hold yourself accountablefor developing your people.
Let me give you an example ofwhat this looks like in
(10:35):
practice.
Let's say you have an employeenamed Jennifer.
And Jennifer wants to move intoa leadership role eventually.
During her annual review, youidentify that she needs to
develop her skills in leading, Idon't know, cross-functional
projects.
So you make it part of herdevelopment plan that she'll
lead three cross-functionalprojects over the next year.
(10:59):
Project one comes up.
Maybe it's you know a productlaunch, and that involves
marketing, sales, operations.
Well, Jennifer leads it.
So in your next one-on-one, youtalk about how it went, what she
learned, what she'd dodifferently next time.
And right there, okay, in thatone-on-one, you update her
(11:21):
development plan.
You document that she completedproject one.
You know the skills that youknow she demonstrated and the
areas where she's still growing.
You don't wait until the end ofthe year to record it.
This is a living, breathingdocument.
And hey, so so is Jennifer.
She's growing, she's learning,and your plan needs to reflect
(11:42):
that in real time.
So project two happens.
You do the same process.
One-on-one conversation, updatethe plan.
Project three, same thing.
By the time the next annualreview comes around, you're not
trying to remember what happenednine months ago.
You have a documented trackrecord of her development.
You can see her growthtrajectory.
(12:05):
She can see it too.
She's not wondering if anyonenotices her development because
you've been acknowledging anddocumenting it all along.
All right, integration pointnumber three, your hiring
decisions.
Here's a question most leadersnever ask themselves when
they're hiring.
Am I hiring someone I candevelop into a future leader or
(12:27):
am I just filling a seat?
If you're only thinking aboutthe immediate needs of the role,
you're not thinking aboutsuccession planning.
You need to be hiring people whohave the potential to grow
beyond their current role.
Patrick Lincioni talks aboutthis in his book, The Ideal Team
Player.
He identifies threecharacteristics that the ideal
(12:48):
team players have.
They're humble, they're hungry,and they're smart.
Not IQ smart, but like peoplesmart, emotionally intelligent.
Those three characteristics,that's what you should be
looking for when you're hiringpeople you want to develop into
future leaders.
Humble people can receivefeedback and admit when they're
(13:10):
wrong.
Hungry people want to grow andimprove.
And smart people can navigaterelationships and build trust
with others.
You can, you know, teach someonetechnical skills.
You can train them on yourprocesses and your systems.
But humble, hungry, and smart,those are the foundation.
(13:31):
If someone has those threethings, you can develop them.
If they don't, well, you'regoing to struggle no matter how
technically skilled they are.
Now, does that mean you onlyhire people who want to go into
leadership?
No.
Remember the Michael Jordanproblem?
But it does mean you're hiringpeople who want to grow,
(13:53):
develop, and increase theirimpact, whether that's as an
individual contributor or as afuture leader.
Here's the difference.
You want people who are hungryto get better at what they do.
Who want to learn, who arecurious, who see feedback as an
opportunity, not as a threat,who want to take on challenges
(14:16):
that stretch them.
Those people, they're going todevelop.
Some of them will develop intoleaders.
Some of them will develop intoyour most valuable senior
individual contributors, butthey're all going to grow.
And the growth is what buildsyour bench strength.
The people you don't want, thoseare the ones who just clock in.
(14:38):
They do the minimum, they clockout.
The ones who see their job asjust a paycheck.
The ones who aren't interestedin getting better.
Those people aren't going todevelop no matter how much you
invest in them.
And they're definitely notbuilding your bench strength for
the future.
Alright.
(14:58):
Now let's talk about theelephant in the room.
How do you build bench strengthwithout playing favorites?
Because here's what happens in alot of organizations.
A leader identifies their, youknow, chosen ones, the people
they're grooming for leadership.
And everyone else on the teamcan see it.
The chosen ones get the goodprojects, the development
(15:20):
opportunities, the FaceTime withthe executives, and everyone
else gets the leftovers.
That's favoritism.
And it destroys team moralefaster than almost anything
else.
So how do you prevent it?
Well, here's three thingsthat'll help.
First, establish minimumstandards and competencies for
(15:43):
leadership roles.
What does someone actually needto demonstrate to be considered
for leadership position?
Make it transparent.
Make it objective.
Make it measurable.
Maybe it's a degree.
Maybe it's certification.
Maybe it's years of experience.
Not I think they'd be good atthis.
(16:06):
And not they remind me of myselfwhen I was coming up.
But specific competencies anddemonstrated abilities.
Can they influence withoutauthority?
Have they successfully led youknow projects
cross-functionally?
Do they give and receivefeedback well?
Can they develop others?
Have they demonstrated they canhandle conflict productively?
(16:29):
Make the criteria clear and makeit visible to everyone on your
team.
Second, get input from otherleaders.
You shouldn't be makingsuccession decisions in a
vacuum.
Your perspective is limited byyour own biases, your own blind
spots, and yes, your ownfavorites.
Get input from the other leadersyou've worked with and who've
(16:52):
worked with your team members.
What do they see?
What patterns have theyobserved?
Who demonstrates leadershippotential in ways that you may
not have even noticed?
Cross-leader validation helpscatch favoritism before it
becomes a problem.
And third, you need to know yourpeople.
You need to know them wellenough to spot the difference
(17:13):
between high performance andleadership potential.
This is where people leadershipreally matters.
When you actually know yourpeoples and their strengths,
their growth areas ormotivations, you can make better
decisions about who's ready forleadership and who just happens
to be really good at theircurrent job.
(17:33):
Sometimes your favorite personto work with isn't actually the
right person for the leadershiprole.
And sometimes the person thatchallenged you the most would
actually be a great leader.
You've got to separate yourpersonal preference from
objective leadership potential.
Let me go back to that executiveboard meeting for a minute.
Because what happened in thatroom is happening in
(17:55):
organizations everywhere.
When you consistently hireexternally for leadership
positions instead of promotingfrom within, you're sending a
very clear message to your team.
We don't believe any of you aregood enough.
Now, I'm not saying you shouldnever hire externally.
Sometimes you need outsideperspective.
(18:16):
Sometimes you need expertisethat you don't have on your
internal team.
Sometimes you're growing so fastyou just generally don't have
enough internal candidatesready.
But if every single leadershipopening goes to an external
hire, well, that's that's not atalent problem.
That's a development problem.
And it means one of two things,or maybe both.
(18:39):
First, you're hiring the wrongpeople to begin with.
If nobody on your team is everready for promotion, you're not
hiring people with growthpotential.
You're hiring people to fillseats.
Or second, you're not developingyour people.
And that's a reflection of yourleadership.
People first leaders developtheir people intentionally.
(19:03):
They create opportunities forgrowth.
They they give stretchassignments, they provide
coaching and feedback, theyinvest in their team's
development even when it'sinconvenient.
Here's what I told thatexecutive board.
Your frontline employees areleaving because they can see the
pattern.
They know that no matter howhard they work, no matter how
(19:24):
much they grow, the nextmanagement position is going to
someone from outside.
So why would they stay?
Why would they invest their timeand energy developing themselves
when the reward for excellenceis watching someone else get you
want to fix your turnoverproblem?
Start promoting from within.
Start developing your peopleintentionally, start treating
(19:47):
succession planning like a youknow, like the critical business
process it is, and not like adocument you update once a year.
Alright.
Here's your assignment for thisweek.
I want you to do two things.
First, I want you to look atyour last five leadership hires
or promotions.
How many were internal?
(20:09):
How many were external?
If they're all external, you'vegot a development problem, not a
top.
Second, have career developmentconversations with each person
on your team in your nextone-on-one.
Not like a where do you want tobe in five years?
In some vague interview questionway, but like real
conversations.
(20:29):
Do you want to lead peoplesomeday?
Or do you want to keep growingas an individual contributor?
What skills do you want todevelop this year?
What experiences would help yougrow?
How can I support yourdevelopment?
And then, this is the criticalpart.
Actually do something with thatinformation.
Don't just have the conversationand move on.
(20:51):
Make development a regular partof your one-on-ones.
Create opportunities alignedwith their goals.
Hold yourself accountable fordeveloping your people.
Because succession planningisn't something you do once a
year.
It's something you do everysingle week in how you lead,
develop, and you invest in yourteam.
Look, here's the truth.
(21:12):
If you're not intentionallybuilding leadership bench
strength, you're settingyourself up for crisis
management when someone leaves.
And if you're consistentlyhiring externally instead of
promoting from within, you'retelling your team there's no
future for them in yourorganization.
And they're hearing you loud andclear.
People first leaders developtheir people, whether they stay
(21:34):
or go.
They create paths for both theleaders and individual
contributors to grow.
They make succession planning aliving process, not a document
in a drawer.
And they understand somethingcritical.
Your job as a leader isn't justto get work done today, it's to
develop the leaders who will getthe work done tomorrow.
(21:55):
If your organization needs helpbuilding a real succession
planning process, not adocument, but a living breathing
system that develops your peopleand builds bench strength, I'd
love to help.
I've been working with leadersand teams for years on this.
I can also help with keynotespeaking, executive coaching,
leadership training, and I tryto help you create people first
(22:18):
cultures that develop talentintentionally.
You can connect with me onLinkedIn, which is where most of
you do, or at my website at NextStepadvisors.com.
There's no E in next, nextStepadvisors.com.
Hey, and if this episode hithome for you, would you do me a
favor?
Subscribe to the show, leave areview, you know, share it with
another leader who needs to hearit.
(22:39):
That's how we make a biggerimpact on workplace culture
together.
Remember, keep developing yourpeople, even if they eventually
leave, creating clear pathsforward instead of dead ends,
and make succession planning adaily practice instead of an
annual document.
And you know why?
(23:00):
Because those are the thingsthat leaders do.
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
Thank you for listening to Things Leaders Do.
If you're looking for more tipson how to be a better leader, be
sure to subscribe to the podcastand listen to next week's
episode.
Until next time, keep working onbeing a better leader by doing
the things that leaders do.
People first leadership.
Actionable strategies, realresults.
This is Things Leaders Do withColby Morris.
SPEAKER_01 (00:11):
I'm sitting in a boardroom with an executive
team.
They brought me in because theirturnover numbers are through the
roof, and they can't figure outwhy.
I've spent the last two weeksinterviewing their frontline
managers and their employees.
And I've heard the same thingover and over and over again.
(00:31):
Why would I stay here?
There's no path forward.
Every management opening goes toan external hire.
So I'm presenting my findings tothe executive board and I ask
them really a simple question.
How many of you are externalhires?
Every single hand goes up aroundthe table.
I let him sit with that for asecond.
(00:54):
Look around the room.
Look at all those hands.
Then I said, Now keep your handsup, and using your fingers, show
me how many managers and leaderson your team were promoted from
frontline positions.
The hands stay up, but nobody'sputting up any fingers.
They're looking at each other,looking at their hands, trying
(01:17):
to think of someone, anyone, andcoming up empty.
If you don't have anyone you'vepromoted from a frontline
position, put your hand down, Isaid.
One by one, every single handgoes down.
Then I looked at the CEO.
We'll call him Daryl.
I said, Daryl, would you mindlooking around the room and
counting up the total number ofinternal promotions we're
(01:40):
looking at in here?
Daryl looks around the room.
No hands.
No fingers.
Nothing.
He just says quietly, zero.
So I let that sit for a moment.
Then I ask them one morequestion.
(02:01):
So, how exactly are yourfrontline employees supposed to
be incentivized to do betterwork when they can see there's
absolutely no path forward forthem in here?
Crickets.
You can literally hear the pindrop in the room.
That's the moment thateverything clicked for them.
(02:24):
Hey leaders, this is ColbyMorris, and this is Things
Leaders Do.
Today we're talking aboutsuccession planning.
Not the one and done documentsitting in, you know, some
drawer somewhere, but theliving, breathing process that
either builds your benchstrength or destroys your team's
morale.
(02:45):
Let me tell you what's brokenabout how more most
organizations approachsuccession planning.
They treat it like a compliancecheckbox.
Once a year, maybe during youknow strategic planning, someone
says, you know, hey, we shouldprobably update our succession
plan.
So they pull out a document,update a few names, follow it
(03:07):
away, and they forget about itfor another 12 months.
Yeah, that's that's notsuccession planning.
That's a fairy tale you'retelling yourself so you can
sleep at night.
Real succession planning, it'swoven into everything you do.
It's part of your one-on-ones.
It's integrated into your annualreviews, it's it's a factor in
(03:28):
your hiring decisions.
It's a living, breathing part ofhow you develop your people
every single day.
But here's what happens in mostorganizations.
And tell me if I'm missing this,but in most organizations, you
hire people to fill seats, notto develop future leaders.
(03:49):
You promote people based onwho's available right now, not
who you've been intentionallydeveloping.
And when a leadership positionopens up, you panic and look
externally because you haven'tbuilt any bench strength
internally, and your team seesall of this.
They watch you hire externallyover and over and over again.
(04:12):
They read the writing on thewall.
There's no future for me here.
Now, here's one of the biggestmistakes I see leaders make with
succession planning, and I callit the Michael Jordan problem.
And you've probably heard metalk about this a few times.
You have someone on your teamwho's, you know, crushing it.
(04:32):
They're your top performer, yourgo-to.
They exceed literally everymetric.
They're reliable, they'retalented, they work hard, and
everyone loves working withthem.
So naturally, you assume theywant to be promoted to
leadership, right?
They're so good at what they do,obviously they want to lead a
(04:53):
team.
Wrong.
Some people just want to beMichael Jordan.
They want to be the best playeron the court.
They don't want to be PhilJackson.
They don't want to coach.
They just want to play.
Here's what happens when youpromote a person into leadership
without having a conversationfirst about it.
(05:14):
You lose a great individualcontributor, and you gain a, I
don't know, mediocre maybe, orworse, a miserable manager.
And why?
Because you have to startholding that leader to a new set
of standards that they probablyweren't even trained for, they
(05:35):
are unaccustomed to, and worse,never wanted to begin with.
So they fell as a manager, andif you have to let them go, now
you're out a manager, and youlost your best performer in the
process.
As the great philosopher Dr.
Phil says, how's that workingfor?
(05:56):
I've seen this play out so manytimes.
You take your best salesperson,you make them sales manager.
Suddenly, they're not sellinganymore.
They're managing.
They're in meetings all day.
They're they're dealing withperformance issues, they're
doing one-on-ones and annualreviews, and they hate it.
Within six months, they're, youknow, either struggling in the
(06:20):
role or they leave to gosomewhere else.
They can just do the workthey're actually good at and
enjoy.
You've got to have theconversation.
And not just once.
This needs to be an ongoingdialogue in your one-on-ones.
Where do you see yourself inthree to five years?
Do you want to lead people or doyou want to keep growing as an
(06:40):
individual contributor?
What does success look like foryou?
And here's the key.
You've got to create paths forboth.
Not everyone needs to go intomanagement to advance their
career.
You need senior individualcontributor roles.
You need ways for people to growtheir influence, their
(07:00):
compensation, and their impactwithout managing people.
Because if the only path forwardis leadership, you're going to
force a lot of great individualcontributors into leadership
roles they never wanted.
And you're going to create a lotof bad leaders in the process.
So, how do you actually makesuccession planning a living,
(07:22):
breathing part of yourorganization instead of a
document that sits in a drawer?
I'm going to give you threeintegration points to help you
do that.
Integration point number one isyour one-on-ones.
This is where successionplanning actually happens.
Not in the annual strategicplanning retreat.
Okay.
(07:42):
It's in your weekly or yourbi-weekly one-on-ones with your
team.
You should be having careerdevelopment conversations
regularly.
Not once a year during reviewtime, but you know, ongoing.
Now, I have a whole series onone-on-ones, how they're done,
the cadence, the questions toask, the whole process.
If you haven't listened to thatseries yet, go back and check it
(08:05):
out.
Because if you want to makesuccession planning actually
work, you have to know yourone-on-ones.
That's where this stuff becomesreal.
In these conversations, you'reasking things like, what skills
are you working on developing?
What experiences would help yougrow?
What areas do you want to learnmore about?
And here's what's critical: you're not asking these (08:25):
undefined
questions to just check a box.
You're asking because you'regenuinely invested in developing
your people, whether they stayin your organization or not.
People first leaders developtheir people, even if it means
they eventually leave for biggeropportunities somewhere else.
(08:46):
Because when you develop people,word gets around.
And suddenly you're attractingthe kind of talent that wants to
grow, not just collects apaycheck.
There's an old story that's beentold through the years.
You've probably heard it, butthe CFO goes to the COO and
says, I want to talk about themoney we're spending on training
our employees.
(09:08):
The COO answers, Well, what'sthe problem?
The CFO says, Well, if we spendall this money on training those
employees and they leave, thenwhat?
And the COO responds with, Yeah,but what if we don't train them
and they stay?
That's the choice you're making.
Do you want untrained,undeveloped people who can't
(09:31):
grow?
Or do you want to invest in yourpeople?
And yes, sometimes they'll leavefor bigger opportunities, but
while they're with you, they'reexcellent.
And the ones who stay becomeyour leaders.
All right, integration pointnumber two is your annual
reviews.
Your annual review processshould include a development
(09:52):
plan.
Not just here's how you performthis year, but here's where you
want to go, and here's how we'regoing to help you get there.
What skills do they need todevelop?
What experiences do they need togain?
What projects could they leadthat would stretch them?
Who could they shadow or learnfrom?
And then, this is where mostorganizations fall apart.
(10:15):
You actually follow through onthat development plan.
It's a novel concept.
You don't just write it down andforget about it.
You reference it in yourone-on-ones.
You create opportunities thatalign with it.
You hold yourself accountablefor developing your people.
Let me give you an example ofwhat this looks like in
(10:35):
practice.
Let's say you have an employeenamed Jennifer.
And Jennifer wants to move intoa leadership role eventually.
During her annual review, youidentify that she needs to
develop her skills in leading, Idon't know, cross-functional
projects.
So you make it part of herdevelopment plan that she'll
lead three cross-functionalprojects over the next year.
(10:59):
Project one comes up.
Maybe it's you know a productlaunch, and that involves
marketing, sales, operations.
Well, Jennifer leads it.
So in your next one-on-one, youtalk about how it went, what she
learned, what she'd dodifferently next time.
And right there, okay, in thatone-on-one, you update her
(11:21):
development plan.
You document that she completedproject one.
You know the skills that youknow she demonstrated and the
areas where she's still growing.
You don't wait until the end ofthe year to record it.
This is a living, breathingdocument.
And hey, so so is Jennifer.
She's growing, she's learning,and your plan needs to reflect
(11:42):
that in real time.
So project two happens.
You do the same process.
One-on-one conversation, updatethe plan.
Project three, same thing.
By the time the next annualreview comes around, you're not
trying to remember what happenednine months ago.
You have a documented trackrecord of her development.
You can see her growthtrajectory.
(12:05):
She can see it too.
She's not wondering if anyonenotices her development because
you've been acknowledging anddocumenting it all along.
All right, integration pointnumber three, your hiring
decisions.
Here's a question most leadersnever ask themselves when
they're hiring.
Am I hiring someone I candevelop into a future leader or
(12:27):
am I just filling a seat?
If you're only thinking aboutthe immediate needs of the role,
you're not thinking aboutsuccession planning.
You need to be hiring people whohave the potential to grow
beyond their current role.
Patrick Lincioni talks aboutthis in his book, The Ideal Team
Player.
He identifies threecharacteristics that the ideal
(12:48):
team players have.
They're humble, they're hungry,and they're smart.
Not IQ smart, but like peoplesmart, emotionally intelligent.
Those three characteristics,that's what you should be
looking for when you're hiringpeople you want to develop into
future leaders.
Humble people can receivefeedback and admit when they're
(13:10):
wrong.
Hungry people want to grow andimprove.
And smart people can navigaterelationships and build trust
with others.
You can, you know, teach someonetechnical skills.
You can train them on yourprocesses and your systems.
But humble, hungry, and smart,those are the foundation.
(13:31):
If someone has those threethings, you can develop them.
If they don't, well, you'regoing to struggle no matter how
technically skilled they are.
Now, does that mean you onlyhire people who want to go into
leadership?
No.
Remember the Michael Jordanproblem?
But it does mean you're hiringpeople who want to grow,
(13:53):
develop, and increase theirimpact, whether that's as an
individual contributor or as afuture leader.
Here's the difference.
You want people who are hungryto get better at what they do.
Who want to learn, who arecurious, who see feedback as an
opportunity, not as a threat,who want to take on challenges
(14:16):
that stretch them.
Those people, they're going todevelop.
Some of them will develop intoleaders.
Some of them will develop intoyour most valuable senior
individual contributors, butthey're all going to grow.
And the growth is what buildsyour bench strength.
The people you don't want, thoseare the ones who just clock in.
(14:38):
They do the minimum, they clockout.
The ones who see their job asjust a paycheck.
The ones who aren't interestedin getting better.
Those people aren't going todevelop no matter how much you
invest in them.
And they're definitely notbuilding your bench strength for
the future.
Alright.
(14:58):
Now let's talk about theelephant in the room.
How do you build bench strengthwithout playing favorites?
Because here's what happens in alot of organizations.
A leader identifies their, youknow, chosen ones, the people
they're grooming for leadership.
And everyone else on the teamcan see it.
The chosen ones get the goodprojects, the development
(15:20):
opportunities, the FaceTime withthe executives, and everyone
else gets the leftovers.
That's favoritism.
And it destroys team moralefaster than almost anything
else.
So how do you prevent it?
Well, here's three thingsthat'll help.
First, establish minimumstandards and competencies for
(15:43):
leadership roles.
What does someone actually needto demonstrate to be considered
for leadership position?
Make it transparent.
Make it objective.
Make it measurable.
Maybe it's a degree.
Maybe it's certification.
Maybe it's years of experience.
Not I think they'd be good atthis.
(16:06):
And not they remind me of myselfwhen I was coming up.
But specific competencies anddemonstrated abilities.
Can they influence withoutauthority?
Have they successfully led youknow projects
cross-functionally?
Do they give and receivefeedback well?
Can they develop others?
Have they demonstrated they canhandle conflict productively?
(16:29):
Make the criteria clear and makeit visible to everyone on your
team.
Second, get input from otherleaders.
You shouldn't be makingsuccession decisions in a
vacuum.
Your perspective is limited byyour own biases, your own blind
spots, and yes, your ownfavorites.
Get input from the other leadersyou've worked with and who've
(16:52):
worked with your team members.
What do they see?
What patterns have theyobserved?
Who demonstrates leadershippotential in ways that you may
not have even noticed?
Cross-leader validation helpscatch favoritism before it
becomes a problem.
And third, you need to know yourpeople.
You need to know them wellenough to spot the difference
(17:13):
between high performance andleadership potential.
This is where people leadershipreally matters.
When you actually know yourpeoples and their strengths,
their growth areas ormotivations, you can make better
decisions about who's ready forleadership and who just happens
to be really good at theircurrent job.
(17:33):
Sometimes your favorite personto work with isn't actually the
right person for the leadershiprole.
And sometimes the person thatchallenged you the most would
actually be a great leader.
You've got to separate yourpersonal preference from
objective leadership potential.
Let me go back to that executiveboard meeting for a minute.
Because what happened in thatroom is happening in
(17:55):
organizations everywhere.
When you consistently hireexternally for leadership
positions instead of promotingfrom within, you're sending a
very clear message to your team.
We don't believe any of you aregood enough.
Now, I'm not saying you shouldnever hire externally.
Sometimes you need outsideperspective.
(18:16):
Sometimes you need expertisethat you don't have on your
internal team.
Sometimes you're growing so fastyou just generally don't have
enough internal candidatesready.
But if every single leadershipopening goes to an external
hire, well, that's that's not atalent problem.
That's a development problem.
And it means one of two things,or maybe both.
(18:39):
First, you're hiring the wrongpeople to begin with.
If nobody on your team is everready for promotion, you're not
hiring people with growthpotential.
You're hiring people to fillseats.
Or second, you're not developingyour people.
And that's a reflection of yourleadership.
People first leaders developtheir people intentionally.
(19:03):
They create opportunities forgrowth.
They they give stretchassignments, they provide
coaching and feedback, theyinvest in their team's
development even when it'sinconvenient.
Here's what I told thatexecutive board.
Your frontline employees areleaving because they can see the
pattern.
They know that no matter howhard they work, no matter how
(19:24):
much they grow, the nextmanagement position is going to
someone from outside.
So why would they stay?
Why would they invest their timeand energy developing themselves
when the reward for excellenceis watching someone else get you
want to fix your turnoverproblem?
Start promoting from within.
Start developing your peopleintentionally, start treating
(19:47):
succession planning like a youknow, like the critical business
process it is, and not like adocument you update once a year.
Alright.
Here's your assignment for thisweek.
I want you to do two things.
First, I want you to look atyour last five leadership hires
or promotions.
How many were internal?
(20:09):
How many were external?
If they're all external, you'vegot a development problem, not a
top.
Second, have career developmentconversations with each person
on your team in your nextone-on-one.
Not like a where do you want tobe in five years?
In some vague interview questionway, but like real
conversations.
(20:29):
Do you want to lead peoplesomeday?
Or do you want to keep growingas an individual contributor?
What skills do you want todevelop this year?
What experiences would help yougrow?
How can I support yourdevelopment?
And then, this is the criticalpart.
Actually do something with thatinformation.
Don't just have the conversationand move on.
(20:51):
Make development a regular partof your one-on-ones.
Create opportunities alignedwith their goals.
Hold yourself accountable fordeveloping your people.
Because succession planningisn't something you do once a
year.
It's something you do everysingle week in how you lead,
develop, and you invest in yourteam.
Look, here's the truth.
(21:12):
If you're not intentionallybuilding leadership bench
strength, you're settingyourself up for crisis
management when someone leaves.
And if you're consistentlyhiring externally instead of
promoting from within, you'retelling your team there's no
future for them in yourorganization.
And they're hearing you loud andclear.
People first leaders developtheir people, whether they stay
(21:34):
or go.
They create paths for both theleaders and individual
contributors to grow.
They make succession planning aliving process, not a document
in a drawer.
And they understand somethingcritical.
Your job as a leader isn't justto get work done today, it's to
develop the leaders who will getthe work done tomorrow.
(21:55):
If your organization needs helpbuilding a real succession
planning process, not adocument, but a living breathing
system that develops your peopleand builds bench strength, I'd
love to help.
I've been working with leadersand teams for years on this.
I can also help with keynotespeaking, executive coaching,
leadership training, and I tryto help you create people first
(22:18):
cultures that develop talentintentionally.
You can connect with me onLinkedIn, which is where most of
you do, or at my website at NextStepadvisors.com.
There's no E in next, nextStepadvisors.com.
Hey, and if this episode hithome for you, would you do me a
favor?
Subscribe to the show, leave areview, you know, share it with
another leader who needs to hearit.
(22:39):
That's how we make a biggerimpact on workplace culture
together.
Remember, keep developing yourpeople, even if they eventually
leave, creating clear pathsforward instead of dead ends,
and make succession planning adaily practice instead of an
annual document.
And you know why?
(23:00):
Because those are the thingsthat leaders do.
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
Thank you for listening to Things Leaders Do.
If you're looking for more tipson how to be a better leader, be
sure to subscribe to the podcastand listen to next week's
episode.
Until next time, keep working onbeing a better leader by doing
the things that leaders do.
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