March 4, 2025 • 47 mins
In 1950, the Texas A&M Board of Directors charged the Texas Transportation Institute (now the Texas A&M Transportation Institute, or TTI) to enlist the broad resources of the college across the spectrum of transportation research to benefit Texas, while also providing unique educational opportunities for students to study and work in the field. This agreement solidified the Cooperative Research Program between the then-Texas Highway Department (now the Texas Department of Transportation) and TTI. For 75 years, these agencies have partnered to conduct applied research that benefits Texans and travelers worldwide by innovating and improving the safety, mobility, and resilience of our transportation network. Our host, Allan Rutter, talks about this longstanding relationship with TxDOT Executive Director Marc Williams and TTI Agency Director Greg Winfree.
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Episode Transcript
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Allan Rutter (00:14):
Howdy, everyone.
Welcome to ThinkingTransportation, conversations
about how we get ourselves andthe stuff we need from one
place to another. I'm AllanRutter with the Texas A&M
Transportation Institute. I'mgonna depart from my normal
attitude of hosting humility totoot our own horn a bit .
Because this is episode number100 for us here at Thinking
(00:38):
Transportation. Now I've beenyour host just for the past six
months, but TTI has beenpodcasting for four years since
our first episode released onFebruary 12th, 2021. In these
100 episodes, we've talked with59 of my researcher colleagues,
and 18 transportation leadersoutside our organization. On
(01:00):
behalf of all of us at TTI, Iwanna thank all of you out
there for downloading andlistening through these four
years. For our 100th episode ofthe Thinking Transportation
podcast, we have two veryspecial guests. Marc Williams ,
the executive director of theTexas Department of
Transportation, and GregWinfree, the agency director of
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the Texas A&M TransportationInstitute. Marc joined TxDOT
more than a decade ago and hasbeen executive director since
June 2021. Marc is alsochairman of the Council on Rail
Transportation at the AmericanAssociation of State Highway
and Transportation Officials.
Greg Winfree has been TTIsagency director since December
(01:42):
2016. Greg joined TTI from theU. S. Department of
Transportation, where he servedas assistant secretary for
research and technology. So, nopressure for me as I'm visiting
with the head of my agency andthe head of TTIs largest
research sponsor. The good newsfor our listeners is, these two
transportation leaders are notonly smart guys, but very good
dudes. Welcome to you both .
Greg Winfree (02:05):
Thanks so much, Allan, and a great pleasure to
be here with you, Marc.
Marc Williams (02:09):
Same. Looking forward to our conversation
here today.
Allan Rutter (02:11):
So this year, TTI celebrates our 75th
anniversary, having beencreated in June 1950 by the
Texas A&M College System to dohighway research for, and on
behalf of, the state of Texasand the State Highway
Department. Now, the TexasHighway Department was created
by the Texas Legislature in1917. In 1991, the legislature
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renamed the agency the TexasDepartment of Transportation,
or TxDOT. Now, while the nameshave shifted, the relationship
between TxDOT and TTI hasremained consistent. Why don't
you two talk a little bit aboutthe connection between the
department and TTI in generaland how our two agencies have
worked together.
Marc Williams (02:56):
You know, when you think back to the origin of
TTI with individuals like GibbGilchrist and Dewitt C. Greer,
and it was their partnership inmany ways that helped to
establish that foundation. BothGibb Gilchrist and Dewitt Greer
were former agency heads forthe original State Highway
Department, and Gilchrist wenton to be the first chancellor
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of Texas A&M. And Dewitt Greerhad a long tenure in history as
the agency head with the TexasDepartment of Transportation;
eventually became commissionchair. Too. But it was really
that partnership that I thinkput the seeds of the
relationship that we enjoy,even to this day between the
Texas Department ofTransportation and the Texas
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A&M Transportation Institute--apartnership between both of our
agencies really oriented andfostered on addressing a lot of
the most critical needs that weface in our industry. And those
needs have changed over time.
But, you know, as I just thinkabout the connection, the word
that certainly comes to me ispartnership.
Greg Winfree (04:02):
And certainly from, you know, where we sit
here at TTI, it was a stroke ofgenius with those founders that
you referenced, Marc. But thisis literally one of the first
instances of a recognition thatthe inherent talent and
expertise resident ininstitutes of higher education
work closely with the assetowners and the folks that need
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to get the job done on behalfof their respective states in
building out the transportationnetwork. So, the fact that this
goes back to the very earlydays of those technologies,
when they started to becomeprofessionalized, really was a
stroke of genius. And you know,kind of the history is, most of
the work originally had beendone by academic researchers in
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the College of Engineering; andthen the Board of Regents
looked and said, you know, weneed to streamline this process
and make it more efficient inhow it works with, at the time
the Highway Department and nowTxDOT. So that was the whole
cloth that TTI was createdfrom. We're thrilled that we
have our own staff, but evenmore thrilled that we still
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have strong relationships withthe College of Engineering. You
know, education is at the coreof our mission as part of a
land-grant institution. So thefact that, you know, we still
work closely with those folkswho are teaching the next
generation of professionals aswell as executing in helping an
organization as significant asTxDOT execute its mission,
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really has been tremendous.
Marc Williams (05:31):
Yeah, I think back to my career and my
engagement with TTI--I startedout as a research assistant
there in graduate school atTTI. And so I feel like I have
had the perspective of beingable to see and appreciate the
unique relationship that ouragencies have. And I think it's
really because of that closerelationship, there's
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oftentimes an interchange ofpersonnel. Obviously, you all
work very closely with us onthe research initiatives that
we fund and support with youall, but I think that really is
what has led to the successthat we've seen in research and
innovation that not only hasimpacted our agencies in the
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state of Texas, but it's hadnational, and even worldwide
impacts when it comes to thingslike safety, highway design,
structural design, and now withsome of the new innovative
technologies and areas thatwe're looking at that I'm sure
we'll get a chance to talkabout. You know, this
partnership goes far beyond ourtwo agencies in terms of level
of impact.
Greg Winfree (06:37):
Absolutely.
Allan Rutter (06:38):
So let's talk a little bit about, what do you
see as some of the mostpromising new developments in
our research efforts together?
What are the things that folkscan get excited about?
Greg Winfree (06:49):
Well, you know, certainly from TTI's
perspective, Marc and hissenior leadership team had the
tremendous foresight to reallystart an initiative to infuse
technology. And it's thebroadest sense of technology,
but bringing innovation to all25 TxDOT districts. And the
reason it was a brilliantstroke is that, when you put
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the broad brush on it, whatworks in Yoakum district is not
gonna be the same thing thatworks in Houston, is not gonna
be the same thing that works inthe Pharr District. So, just
the fact that there is a topline --and if you use an NFL
perspective, a head coach thatsaid, look, this is what we're
gonna do from a teamperspective--it tells, you
know, the folks that areresponsible for executing in
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the districts what theirmission is. But it's up to them
to determine what is theappropriate innovation, what is
the appropriate technologythat's gonna benefit their
region. So taking that approachreally has been very well
thought out and we're pleasedto be a partner in that regard.
Marc Williams (07:51):
We certainly appreciate TTI's role in that
with us. And I think one of thegreat things about your
organization, Greg, is that youall aren't just, you know, hole
up in the academic towers therein College Station--while it's
a great place, love it,--you all have staff and
offices around the state. Youall are engaged in those
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districts and working alongsidethem in these areas. You know,
I'm so blessed that we get towork in this era of
transportation because, youknow, you mentioned the
technological innovations thatare going on right now. We
think about automation,automated vehicles that, you
know ... watching outside mywindow here in Austin, you see
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'em drive by every 5 or 10minutes. And digital
infrastructure andcommunications technology and
now artificial intelligence andmachine learning. We've got a
rapid, rapid pace of changegoing on in our industry. And
we have to collectively keep upwith that pace of change and be
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fully engaged as anorganization in looking at
where these new technologiesare taking us, where we've got
applications throughout all ofour business lines and all of
our geographic areas of thestate. And, you know, we really
do rely very heavily on TTI aspart of that partnership to
help us stay, one, up to speedwith the pace of change in
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innovation, but also to seekout and validate and identify
those opportunities forapplication across what we do
as an agency to, again, at theend of the day, make things
better in our industry, makethings better for those who
rely upon and use ourtransportation system. And TTI
has just been a valuable assetfor us in that area.
Greg Winfree (09:44):
No , we greatly appreciate that. And, Allan,
Marc really touched on animportant distinction. You
know, there's the tremendousbrain trust that our institutes
of higher education that workon basic and exploratory
research, we wouldn't be wherewe are as a society without
those advancements. But TTI'ssweet spot is in applied
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research, and I think one ofthe reasons that the
partnership works so well isthat TTI researchers roll their
sleeves up and get out in thefield right next to their TxDOT
partners and sponsors. Andthat's invaluable because, you
know, we are practicing ourdisciplines in the field in
real time and working withTxDOT to make a difference. And
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that's just a tremendousopportunity from our
perspective.
Allan Rutter (10:31):
I think one of those examples of how that
works its way out is over thelast 10 years or so, as oil and
gas production have increasedin the state, TTI has worked
with TxDOT on how to keep upwith and respond to the
challenges that are associatedwith that in South Texas. About
10 years ago, it was more amatter of what are we gonna do
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to keep up with the pavementimpacts of all this truck
transportation onfarm-to-market roads that
weren't designed for that. Iremember our folks helping the
district and the folks inAustin think about how to
adjust and adapt to the changeswith innovative approaches to
pavement maintenance andpavement design. In the last
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five years in the Permian,we've done a lot together,
particularly with the OdessaDistrict, on applying
innovative technologies ontraffic analysis to help the
Odessa folks adapt to urbanlevels of traffic on a rural
infrastructure network. And tofind ways of increasing
transportation safety for allthe thousands of people who
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work out there. It shows ourability to work with folks at a
regional level and to applydifferent kinds of technologies
to situations and problems thatexist on those regional basis .
Anything in response to that?
Greg Winfree (11:52):
Oh, absolutely.
You know, and you hit the nailon the head when we were
talking about innovation andtechnology being applied in the
different districts around thestate. And you've heard me out
on the stump speeches, Allan,say that TTI does everything
from pavement materials throughflying cars and out in the
Permian Basin, out in theOdessa District, that's exactly
what we did. We worked onadvanced technologies for
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something that many folks wouldthink of as 20th Century
developments with pavement andmaterials, whether it's
asphalt, whether it's concrete,right? Those are kind of
longstanding infrastructurethat we've had. But there are
tweaks, there are innovations,there are new materials that
could impact performance in thefield. So one district may be
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focused on that, but another,maybe in the Dallas region,
they're looking at advanced airmobility and how do we move
people in low-altitude flyingdrones, if you will. So that
covers the breadth of where TTIis impactful, but that also
covers the breadth of whatwe're talking about when we
look at the different needs forthe districts and the regions
around the state.
Marc Williams (12:58):
Yeah and, you know, one of the hallmarks of
our partnership has been howperiods and instances of crises
and problems have led us towork together to bring
innovation and solutions. Andthat not only happens in our
relationship, that's kind ofbeen the hallmark of innovation
throughout the history of ournation. But you know, in the
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early days, particularly in theSixties and Seventies--with the
severe impacts we were seeingin roadside safety and deaths
on what was a growing highwaysystem and a growing dependence
on roads--and TTI and TxDOTworking together on things like
breakaway sign technologiesthat was born out of that
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period of crisis. And youtalked, Allan, about some of
the challenges that we havefaced in the Permian area as
we've seen rapid development ofoil and gas out there. And
again, serious safetychallenges, significant
maintenance issues. That too, Ithink, has been a modern day
example of our two agenciescoming together and identifying
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out of those challenges,innovation, and, importantly,
solutions. And we're seeingresults. The Odessa District,
which was home to the vastmajority of the oil and gas
production activity in ourstate, really saw a significant
decline this past year --it wasin 2023--in their safety and
fatality rates. And , uh, Ithink and believe that a lot of
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that is thanks to theinvestment and the innovation
that we've brought to bear inthat area. You know, you don't
know who those individuals are,but we know we've saved lives
because of the efforts that wehave collectively put into a
large range of issues aroundthe state, the Permian and the
oil and gas area being one ofthose recently.
Allan Rutter (14:47):
Well , lemme shift a little bit to talking
about how we tell the story ofhow new transportation dollars
have been invested in thestate. Now, while the motor
fuels tax hasn't changed inTexas since 1991, the
legislature in Texas, voters in2014 and 2015 authorized new
funding into the state highwayfund, which now amounts to more
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than $15 billion for theupcoming biennium. Now Marc,
your work in AASHTO brings youin contact with many state DOT
leaders whose constructionprograms are primarily funded
with federal formula dollars.
What does it mean for youragency and Texas drivers that
TxDOT has broader state fundingresources than other states?
Marc Williams (15:30):
Well, that's very important. That's a
responsibility and a vote ofconfidence that we don't take
lightly. And we certainly havean obligation to steward those
resources well and to put themto use. And one of the messages
that we've consistently heardfrom our legislature is to
execute and deliver. We hearthat from our commission as
well. And we've done that. Wehave , uh, been able to
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successfully increase ourlettings by well over 30
percent in the past couple ofyears. And as a result, we're
putting more pavement on theground and making investments
around the state. You're seeingthose resources be put to use.
And I would argue that for usas an agency too , and the
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outcome of that investment. AndI think TTI has helped us
demonstrate and prove this upin some of the partnership and
the work that we do together.
You know, Texas takes a lot ofpride in the fact that we are
one of the fastest-growingstates, the fastest in terms of
the number of new Texans everyday. We add between 1,300 and
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1,500 new Texans a day, closeto about 800 new jobs a day,
you know, just based upon someof the latest statistics. And
that doesn't happen without theinfrastructure to support and
foster that growth anddevelopment. And that
infrastructure comes in avariety of ways, but I would
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argue none more apparent thanthe transportation system that
pretty much every Texan uses orrelies upon every day . And
it's those resources that weput to use that help to foster
that economic growth that's soimportant for our state.
Allan Rutter (17:13):
It strikes me, Greg, one of the things about
that state funding, it helpsleverage federal formula funds
for planning and research andhow TTI works with both TxDOT
divisions and districts. Youwant to explain a little bit
about how TxDOT's financialposition allows us to help them
?
Greg Winfree (17:33):
No , absolutely.
It's a tremendous asset andwell thought -out by the state.
Just to touch on the point Marcwas making... In my tenure, I
recall a thousand people a daymoving to this state. Then it
was 1,100 and now we're at1,300 to 1,500. And I'll just
paraphrase a statement that thegovernor made. You know, folks
are coming to the state,they're not bringing water with
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them, they're not bringingelectricity; and in what we do,
they're not bringing access tomobility or roadways. So having
that fund to be able to tapinto, to build out the
infrastructure, to not justimprove, but to give folks a
quality of life that theyanticipate and expect from a
state like Texas is the wisdomof the voting behind those two
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funds from a state level. Now,that also pivots nicely because
the federal dollars that thestate gets--and I would be
remiss if I didn't recognizethe fact that Texas is known as
a donor state --meaning wecollect more from the taxes
from the federal trust fund,etc., Than we get back once
it's distributed back to the 50states. So that's always been a
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sore topic, but Prop One andProp Seven help fill those gaps
and help round out theavailability of funding so that
the appropriate planning cantake place; and work with TxDOT
so that their mission and theirprojects are prioritized
properly, whether it'sregionally, whether it's by
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population or whatever otherconsideration, right? Because
we have as much equity in therural parts of the state as we
do in the urban parts. Sogetting that right from a
planning perspective is wherethe federal dollars really
provide that level ofassistance. But rounding that
out with the state investmentreally puts us in the lead with
respect to our mission infostering mobility in this
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great state.
Allan Rutter (19:28):
So, one of the things TTI has been working
with TxDOT is to provideinformation to the five members
of the Texas TransportationCommission and tell the story
about what kinds of projectsare being delivered with
TxDOT's annual lettingschedules and how those
projects are making adifference. Marc, what can you
tell us about how we're workingtogether on initiatives like
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the Clear Lanes project, andtelling the story about what
difference those investmentsare making?
Marc Williams (19:55):
Sure, Allan. You know, the Clear Lanes
initiative, you know... We weretalking about the population
and the economic growth inTexas and, you know, one of the
outfalls of that is increasingcongestion levels and more
traffic on our roads. And muchof that is concentrated in our
major urban centers around thestate, Houston and the Dallas
Fort Worth metroplex and Austinand San Antonio. And one of the
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initial calls of both GovernorGreg Abbott and Transportation
Commission Chairman Bruce Buggwas to target resources to
address those most congestedareas of the state. And so that
was what was the genesis behindthe Texas Clear Lanes
Initiative was-- to have afocused effort, a coordinated
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and ongoing effort, sustainedeffort to address those areas.
And so we brought early on TTIinto that effort as a
partnership. TTI has been,again, nationally known for the
work that you all have done inthe Urban Mobility Report. And
then in Texas, in the analysisof what we refer to as the top
100 most congested roads inTexas, that report comes out
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every year. And so nobody wasreally better positioned to
help us understand congestionand craft a strategy and a plan
and a program than TTI. And soyour agency has helped us to
sort of get our arms around,you know, where are these most
congested areas, what does thatmean to kind of ground truth
what we're talking about withcongestion and to provide, you
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know, some objective analyticsbehind that that can guide our
commission's effort toprioritize the funds that they
can devote to this initiativeand to make decisions on how
and where we develop projectsand initiatives to address
congestion. And then also goingback and helping us look back
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and to say, "Hey, are we makingan impact and are we seeing
benefits from theseinvestments?" And TTI has been
able to do that and demonstratethat, yes, even over the last
several years as VMT hasincreased, we've seen declining
congestion levels in our stateand in some of these most
congested urban areas. Nobody'sgonna argue that congestion has
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gone away. It's still very muchthere, but we are seeing not
only a good plan and approach,but then also being able to go
back and validate, are wehaving an impact and having
results? And TTI h as beenessential for that in this
initiative.
Allan Rutter (22:28):
Now , Greg, one of the things that Marc just
mentioned was the work on ourannual mobility report, which
we have to thank Marc and TxDOTas one of our major sponsors
for that work today. But italso talks about how we track
congestion in metro areasaround the nation. Tell our
listeners a little more aboutthat report and how TTI has
been adding new technologiesinto congestion measurement
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over time.
Greg Winfree (22:52):
That's a great question, Allan. It is a
document that is met with greatanticipation and trepidation.
So, elected officials,obviously that's the kind of
thing that they scurry to readbecause they wanna see where
they rank and they want to ,you know, be able to look at
neighboring vicinities andpoint the finger . So there are
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some competitive jealousiesamongst elected officials, but
for the folks that runorganizations like Marc's that
are responsible for managing,or at least planning in advance
on how to manage issues likecongestion, it's
extraordinarily important tohave objective data and science
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tools. And that's the hallmarkof what TTI produces. And
that's why that report bothnationally and at the state
level are so eagerlyanticipated. It's a great tool
from a planning perspective, asMarc pointed out, to prioritize
where those dollars go. Youknow, there are some areas if
you look at the list over time,that routinely stay in the same
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spaces, right in the sameplaces. And cities like Atlanta
and New York, LA, Houston arealways identified as congestion
choke points in thetechnologies and the approaches
to address that become top ofthe list for those folks that
are engaged with respect toasset management and managing
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mobility across our states . Sowe're just thrilled to be able
to be, again, an objectiveprovider of data and science
tools. We're pleased that it'sresonated nationally. Our
annual mobility report, as youknow, Allan, is usually picked
up by national media. USA Todayalways has a prominent feature
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with that report. So congestionis/are the kind of issues that
are literally rubber hit theroad issues. These are issues
that every American deals with,they're top of mind. If they're
not top of mind, they'rereminded every rush hour. And
these are the issues that ringlegislators' phones off the
hooks. So it's important forall of us to keep moving the
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ball forward with respect totrying to find solutions.
Whether it's through theinfusion of technology or other
approaches with respect tomonitoring, we take advantage
of new technologies, relativelynew like Bluetooth (anonymous
Bluetooth counting), sensors inroadways and modern vehicles
produce four terabytes of dataa day. And we've been saying
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that's about 4,000 volumes ofEncyclopedia Britannica. So
that's a lot of data that's outthere and mining that data,
finding it to get actionableinformation, is where
organizations like TTI come into get those objective data
tools that folks like Marc andhis team rely upon.
Allan Rutter (25:47):
Yeah . One of the things, Greg, you just
mentioned, and we talked acouple of minutes ago about the
Texas Legislature, who askedvoters to authorize some new
transportation funding 10 yearsago. We are now in the midst of
the biennial Texas legislativesession, which got under way in
mid-January. We have newlegislators, a new house
speaker, changes in committeeleadership, new to the post,
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but not certainly new to thelegislature. Long time state
rep Tom Cradock , who served asTexas House speaker from 2003
to 2009, will now be serving asthe chair of the House
Transportation Committee. Houseleadership has also created a
new Subcommittee onTransportation Funding. Now, in
the early part of the session,what kinds of subjects do
legislators want to talk to youtwo about? What kind of
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committees ask for yourattention early?
Greg Winfree (26:36):
I'm gonna let Marc start with that one.
.
Marc Williams (26:38):
Well, you know, that is very front and center
to us right now. You know whatwe hear from them? You know, in
many ways it's, there's a lotof consistency expressing their
needs, local issues thatthey're seeking solutions for
wanting to understandopportunities for funding to
deliver on and execute onprojects to address those
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needs. And so, you know, youconsistently hear that every
legislative session, but someof the themes that we've
probably seen a bit moreemphasis on this last
legislative session, and Ithink we're seeing this carry
forward into this currentlegislative session, is more of
a focus on some of themultimodal elements associated
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with transportation,particularly related to freight
and goods movements. Thelegislature last year put in
$400 million for a ship channelimprovement and revolving fund
to address our ports, and thenanother $200 million for
investments into capitalprojects in the ports
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themselves. They also allocateda total of $200 million on the
General Aviation side. And thatwas an increase of about 50 to
$60 million over what they'vehistorically authorized in
terms of just state and federalfunding. And now this
legislative session, we'recertainly having conversations
and hearing from thelegislature about the needs to
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continue to sustain investmentsin ports and airports. But
we're seeing a lot of interestin what we can be doing to
support rail investment,particularly opportunities for
grade separations and supportfor shortline railroads. And
continuing to haveconversations about what are
the needs associated withtransit, particularly our urban
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and rural transit systems thatrely very heavily on
transportation. And then youmentioned, Allan, the
subcommittee on transportationfunding on the House side, a
permanent subcommittee that'sbeen established that Terry
Canales out of the Valley,who's chaired house
transportation before, he willbe the chair of that
subcommittee and beginning tohave the conversation about,
well , what level of funding dowe need to be thinking about
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going forward as a state tocontinue to make sure that we
maintain our competitiveposition when it comes to our
transportation infrastructureand the ability to move people
and goods and products andfoster that economic
development that I talkedabout. So those are some of the
themes that we've heard andthat I think will continue to
play out as we go through thelegislative session this
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spring.
Allan Rutter (29:10):
Greg, why don't you talk a little bit about
both some of the themes you'rehearing and which committees do
you hear from early and whichcommittees do we hear from
later in the session?
Greg Winfree (29:19):
You know, as part of the A&M University System,
right, there are 19 systemmembers. So our first important
role is to appear before SenateFinance and the House
Appropriations Committee, justas an overarching review of who
Texas A&M is and how itsconstituent members operate
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and, frankly, what their needsare. So that's kind of the top
line, but from a substantiveperspective, we testify along
with TxDOT and DPS and theDepartment of Motor Vehicles
before the House TransportationCommittee. You referenced
Representative Craddock . Now ,being the chair of that
committee, but also havingRepresentative Canales heading
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up the transportation funding,is a great continuum of
knowledge in that committeebecause he had been the
committee chair for the pasttwo biennia. So we're thrilled
about that development. But tobe perfectly frank, our
relationship with thelegislature really winds up...
Because there was , there's afair measure of new faces, new
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energies, every biennium. Sofor us, it started from scratch
to educate folks on who TTI isand also, importantly, who we
are not, and let them know whatwe do on behalf of the state,
how we partner with TxDOT andother agencies across the state
in this mission. So while thereare important committee
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opportunities to present, Iwould be remiss if I left out
the Article III Committee. SoArticle III has to do with
educational institutions. Andeven though we're in
transportation, we fall intoArticle III because we're part
of the Texas A&M UniversitySystem. So there are some
oddities with respect to who weare, how we relate to the state
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writ large, that need to beconstantly explained,
re-explained, and elucidated,if you will, for for new
members. So that's a constantchallenge. A lot of it is
in-office visits withlegislators and their staffers,
but to your specific question,the issues we hear tend to be
personalized. I rememberdistinctly the last biennium, a
(31:36):
representative from Houstonasked me, why isn't there a
highway-slash-interstate fromHouston to Austin? And I was
flummoxed . I said, "Idon't know, but we will get on
that and have an answer foryou." But it's those kinds of
issues that are top of mind fora legislator. I mean, another
(31:56):
biennium, we had a questionabout sound barriers along a
roadway that ran through herdistrict. So the top-of-line
issue, the pet issue thatlegislators have are the ones
that often get presented to us,even if they're not necessarily
in our bailiwick, they're justhappy to have a transportation
expert. And they know that ifthey present something, that we
(32:18):
don't have an answer, thatwe'll get on the hotline to
Marc and his team and get themthe kinds of information that
they need. So it's a little bitchallenging, but it's always a
great thrill to have thatopportunity to educate folks in
our capitol.
Allan Rutter (32:32):
So just as we talked about how the Texas
Legislature is reflecting quitea few changes, we have a new
administration at the nationallevel. Congress has confirmed a
new USDOT secretary, Sean Duffy. Greg, what have we learned
about Secretary Duffy'spriorities through his
confirmation hearing? What dowe know about what's important
to him?
Greg Winfree (32:52):
That's a great question, Allan. And you know,
there's one good thing aboutthe Department of
Transportation, and I heardthis from both previous
Republican and Democraticsecretaries and deputies. They
said, "look, there are noRepublican or Democratic
potholes, right?" These are thekitchen issues that all
Americans deal with. As Imentioned earlier, these are
(33:13):
the issues that ring theirlegislators phones off the
hook. And from theirperspective, this is
low-hanging fruit that thereought to be an answer for, as
Marc unfortunately has to dealwith on a day-to-day basis. So,
you know, we deal with thosekinds of day-to-day issues for
many folks, and that's what'simportant at DOT . So you
(33:36):
normally don't see significantswings from a mission
perspective. You certainly willhave swings from a policy or
priority perspective, but I wasencouraged to hear from
Secretary Duffy's confirmationhearing that they're still
focused on environmentalissues. They're still focused
(33:56):
on ensuring that transportationdoesn't have a negative impact
on communities writ large. Sothose are, you know, the kind
of important things. They'revery much focused on congestion
mitigation and other importantissues, like I said, that hit
folks in their homes and intheir communities. So from a
(34:16):
top-line perspective, I thinkthe DOT mission is solid. The
funding is there through theIIJA and through other funding
mechanisms--and that's thebipartisan infrastructure law
and others. So there is legacyfunding, generational funding,
if you will, that's availableto address these issues going
forward. But a lot more has tobe sussed out over time as they
(34:41):
get in and get comfortable inthe seat and comfortable with
the responsibilities,priorities present themselves,
right? So clearly aviationsafety is at the top of their
list now with this overturnedflight in Toronto and the
tragedy coming out of NationalAirport. So you deal with
things in real time , there arepriorities from a global
(35:02):
perspective, but at the end ofthe day, it's day-to-day, what
are you dealing with? What arethe hot button things that we
need to get right, right now?
And that's what they'regrappling with.
Allan Rutter (35:13):
So Marc, you also, as part of that National
Association of State DOTs, thesecretary talked to you guys at
the Washington briefing a weekor so ago. What did you hear
from him?
Marc Williams (35:23):
Well, certainly he was coming into that meeting
at the time, shortly after theresponse to the tragedy that
Greg referenced at ReaganNational Airport. And then
shortly after that, the crashas well in Philadelphia. And,
you know, that was SecretaryDuffy's second full day on the
(35:43):
job when that tragedy occurred.
And his agency obviously wasvery key to the response on
that. And so that has been anarea of focus, and he talked
about some of those issues withus. But as far as his
conveyance of his prioritiesand what they're doing with the
USDOT, you know, they'relooking really hard--and I
think we're seeing this rightnow at rethinking and even
(36:06):
restructuring some of theoperations within the USDOT and
the Federal HighwayAdministration. I think that
they believe that that's themission that their
administration has been taskedwith by the voters, is to kinda
re-look at the federalgovernment and seek out
opportunities to streamline ormake that more efficient. He
also talked about and hasdiscussed re-looking at that
(36:27):
state and federal partnershipand understanding that the
Federal Highway Administration,USDOT are there to help support
the work that the states do todeliver the transportation
program. And you know, by andlarge, FHWA doesn't build any
roads. It's the states that dothat--some exceptions with some
of the national lands--but 99.9percent of what goes on is
(36:51):
delivered by the states. And Ithink he certainly appreciates
that. He talked aboutre-looking at some of the
investment priorities that havebeen set by USDOT and FHWA, and
again, kind of looking at,okay, are we reflecting the
most critical priorities thatwe have at the national level
and at the local level? Andthen finally, delivery. At the
(37:13):
end of the day, you have to beable to effectively and
efficiently deliver on theprojects and deliver the
resources that you've beenentrusted with. It's the same
point of emphasis that we haveat the state level. And so
those were some of the themesthat I certainly heard from
Secretary Duffy. And when wehad the opportunity to hear
(37:33):
from him and meet him a coupleof weeks ago. And you're gonna
have to see how things begin toshake out. We'll have a Federal
Highway administrator announcedat some point in the future;
they'll begin to kind of buildout the team and over the
coming months, you'll reallybegin to better see and
appreciate the full breadth ofinitiatives that this
administration is wanting totake on and deliver with USDOT.
(37:57):
And so we have to continue tobe engaged with them--both TTI
and TxDOT are doing that atvarious levels--and to ensure
that as they're building outthese priorities that they are
adapting to and reflecting veryimportantly the needs that we
see within our state here inTexas.
Allan Rutter (38:15):
So, some of those subjects we just mentioned, and
when Greg talked about theinfrastructure law, which
expires in 2026, one of thethings we've seen is, the new
Congress has had a lot ofcongressional hearings to talk
about reauthorization and whatthat looks like. Marc, in our
final minutes, how are statedots preparing to engage in
(38:35):
that upcoming reauthorization?
How do you guys collectivelycommunicate to members of both
houses?
Marc Williams (38:43):
You're right.
There is certainly a lot ofenthusiasm and effort by
members of Congress,particularly the chairs of
those two respective committeeson the House and the Senate
side, to really jump in withboth feet and start this
process of reauthorization ofthe Federal Surface
Transportation bill--which isso important to what we do as
(39:06):
an agency and certainly impactswhat you all do at TTI--that
guides the federal funding thatwe rely upon for a significant
portion of what we do asorganizations. And so, whenever
that process begins, we workvery hard to be engaged not
only with our own congressionaldelegations, but also with
(39:28):
those offices of responsibilityin Congress--the Senate
Environment Public WorksCommittee, and the House
Transportation andInfrastructure Committee--to
help emphasize the needs thatare important to Texas and that
are important as a state. Andwe also engage with people like
AASHTO, the AmericanAssociation of State Highway
and Transportation Officials.
And so, you know, one of thepoints that we emphasize is the
(39:50):
impact that inflation has.
While we saw a significantincrease in funding through the
IIJA, the last reauthorizationbill, that increase has been
largely eroded, if not, even,we're in a deficit from the
buying power at the federallevel because the highway cost
index has grown by 62 percentin the past four years, which
(40:13):
is just a historical increasethat just--we've gotta have
additional resources if we'regonna be able to keep up with
and deliver what we need to.
Also, very important to us isemphasizing formula funding
that's predictable and that'sfair to the states like Texas
flexibility in that funding.
And then going back to, youknow, one of the things that
Greg pointed out is, yes, weare in many ways a donor state
(40:35):
. The current formulas don'treflect the growth that we've
seen over the past two decades.
And so, equity and fairness inthose formulas and the
appropriation of those funds togo to where the needs are now,
not where they were 20 yearsago, is an important emphasis
as well that we're working hardto convey in our conversations.
Allan Rutter (40:56):
Greg, TTI and TxDOT are both part of the ITS
America Board of Directors. Arethere any specific technology
issues that need to beaddressed in service
transportation reauthorization?
Greg Winfree (41:09):
That's a great question, now, and it also ties
in to priorities for thedepartment. One of the other
things we were pleased to hearis Secretary Duffy focus on was
a recognition for the need of acontinued infusion of
innovation and technology intothe transportation slash
mobility space. And that'stremendous. So what we've been
(41:32):
engaging, particularly with ourgovernment relations team and
our Washington, DC, office, butalso a fair amount of shuttle
diplomacy from College Stationheading on into Washington to
visit with legislators , tovisit with committee staff,
etc., to cement the importanceof the research enterprise.
(41:53):
There's a fair measure ofuncertainty emanating from
Washington around what is therole of university research,
what is the value, you know,the minutiae--like indirect
cost recovery and those sortsof things. Those are essential
tools for universities andinstitutes of higher education
(42:15):
to provide the backbone of theresearch. That, to be perfectly
honest, the federal governmentdoes not have the bench
strength to provide. So we areout visiting with every ear
that will hear us and everyoffice that will open their
door to talk about theimportance of university
research, how it adds to thebottom line. It is a quiet
(42:37):
asset, if you will, becauseit's not necessarily above the
fold headlines for many folks.
But those technologies, thoseadvancements that are above the
fold and that are top of linefor most Americans, got there
because of fundamental, basic,and applied research that
advanced it. So we're out infront in ensuring that that
(42:58):
message resonates in the hallsof power in Washington.
Allan Rutter (43:02):
Well, finally, let me ask each of you a
question we close each episodewith. With the big challenges
that you both face as agencyexecutives, what motivates you
to get up each morning to facethose challenges? Marc?
Marc Williams (43:15):
Well, you know, first and foremost, you have to
just love what you do. And Iwould go back to just my early
days as a student at Texas A&Mand the Civil Engineering
Department. When I first walkedin and got a job at TTI, I
really gained an appreciationand a love for what we can do
in this transportation field toimpact the lives of so many
(43:35):
people and to apply theengineering and the analytics
and just the capabilities thatour agencies bring to bear to
really do things effectivelyand more efficiently. And so,
one, it's just the love forbeing able to enjoy and do what
we get to do. And then I goback to what I talk about early
on, and it's the legacy that weenjoy with our two agencies,
(43:56):
with the history of our twoagencies and just the challenge
and the responsibility tosteward that going forward. So
that certainly is somethingthat drives my motivation, but
certainly something that Ienjoy about the relationship
that we have with our twoagencies.
Allan Rutter (44:10):
Greg ?
Greg Winfree (44:10):
Again, you know everything that Marc said, but
I'm blessed to be in a rolehere at TTI with a 700-strong
team of dedicated world-classprofessionals. And I tell them,
I'm a servant leader. I'm notyour boss. I work for y'all .
So, my job is to hopefullycreate opportunities to invest
(44:33):
in relationships, identifyareas where we could be growing
and expanding. But I tell themthat TTI is the 700-strong
people that make this placework. And I'm just
extraordinarily fortunate to bein a role to help us all
execute. Part and parcel ofthat, as Marc alluded to, is
(44:56):
the legacy. You know, I haveblack-and-white photos in most
instances of all prior six TTIdirectors dating back to June
24th, 1950 when we were stoodup. And I like to think that
those gentlemen are smiling atme every time I come out of my
office for carrying the ballforward. 'cause I, you know, I
tell our staff , you heard mesay this, Allan, we stand on
(45:19):
the shoulders of giants. It'sour responsibility to put the
institute in the best positionso that those coming behind us
can carry it forward. I mean,by definition, our tenure here
or at TxDOT is temporary,right? There's a slot of time
for our careers and then wehave to turn it over to the
next generation. So ensuringthat they are prepared, they're
(45:40):
educated, that's the brillianceof us having the ability to tap
into the students here at TexasA&M to get those brilliant,
bright minds into our pipelineso that when I walk out the
door, at some point I can walkout with my head held high
knowing that the nextgeneration is going to take us
to the next level. So it'sthose kinds of things that are
(46:02):
really most meaningful for me.
Allan Rutter (46:04):
Well, that's great. Once again guys, thanks
for being here. We reallyappreciate the time you spent
with us.
Marc Williams (46:10):
Thank you, Allan. Appreciate it, Greg.
Great discussion. Thoroughlyenjoyed it today.
Greg Winfree (46:15):
Yeah, and thanks so much, Marc, for your time.
Really appreciate it.
Allan Rutter (46:20):
So, Marc and Greg spoke about the challenges and
opportunities associated withmajor changes in elected and
appointed officials in Austinand in Washington, DC. I
certainly join our guests inhoping that transportation can
continue to be an issue withbipartisan support. Yet, this
conversation gives evidence ofone certainty amidst so much
change, and it is this (46:42):
that the 75-year relationship
between the Texas Department ofTransportation and the Texas
A&M Transportation Institute isas strong as ever . Thanks for
listening. If you liked whatyou heard or learned something,
please take just a minute togive us a review, subscribe,
and share this episode. And Iinvite you to join us next time
(47:06):
for another conversation aboutgetting ourselves and the stuff
we need from point A to pointB. Thinking Transportation is a
production of the Texas A&MTransportation Institute, a
member of The Texas A&MUniversity System. The show is
edited and produced by ChrisPourteau. I'm your host, Allan
Rutter. Thanks again forjoining us . We'll see you next
(47:28):
time.
Howdy, everyone.
Welcome to ThinkingTransportation, conversations
about how we get ourselves andthe stuff we need from one
place to another. I'm AllanRutter with the Texas A&M
Transportation Institute. I'mgonna depart from my normal
attitude of hosting humility totoot our own horn a bit .
Because this is episode number100 for us here at Thinking
(00:38):
Transportation. Now I've beenyour host just for the past six
months, but TTI has beenpodcasting for four years since
our first episode released onFebruary 12th, 2021. In these
100 episodes, we've talked with59 of my researcher colleagues,
and 18 transportation leadersoutside our organization. On
(01:00):
behalf of all of us at TTI, Iwanna thank all of you out
there for downloading andlistening through these four
years. For our 100th episode ofthe Thinking Transportation
podcast, we have two veryspecial guests. Marc Williams ,
the executive director of theTexas Department of
Transportation, and GregWinfree, the agency director of
(01:21):
the Texas A&M TransportationInstitute. Marc joined TxDOT
more than a decade ago and hasbeen executive director since
June 2021. Marc is alsochairman of the Council on Rail
Transportation at the AmericanAssociation of State Highway
and Transportation Officials.
Greg Winfree has been TTIsagency director since December
(01:42):
2016. Greg joined TTI from theU. S. Department of
Transportation, where he servedas assistant secretary for
research and technology. So, nopressure for me as I'm visiting
with the head of my agency andthe head of TTIs largest
research sponsor. The good newsfor our listeners is, these two
transportation leaders are notonly smart guys, but very good
dudes. Welcome to you both
Greg Winfree (02:05):
Thanks so much, Allan, and a great pleasure to
be here with you, Marc.
Marc Williams (02:09):
Same. Looking forward to our conversation
here today.
Allan Rutter (02:11):
So this year, TTI celebrates our 75th
anniversary, having beencreated in June 1950 by the
Texas A&M College System to dohighway research for, and on
behalf of, the state of Texasand the State Highway
Department. Now, the TexasHighway Department was created
by the Texas Legislature in1917. In 1991, the legislature
(02:36):
renamed the agency the TexasDepartment of Transportation,
or TxDOT. Now, while the nameshave shifted, the relationship
between TxDOT and TTI hasremained consistent. Why don't
you two talk a little bit aboutthe connection between the
department and TTI in generaland how our two agencies have
worked together.
Marc Williams (02:56):
You know, when you think back to the origin of
TTI with individuals like GibbGilchrist and Dewitt C. Greer,
and it was their partnership inmany ways that helped to
establish that foundation. BothGibb Gilchrist and Dewitt Greer
were former agency heads forthe original State Highway
Department, and Gilchrist wenton to be the first chancellor
(03:19):
of Texas A&M. And Dewitt Greerhad a long tenure in history as
the agency head with the TexasDepartment of Transportation;
eventually became commissionchair. Too. But it was really
that partnership that I thinkput the seeds of the
relationship that we enjoy,even to this day between the
Texas Department ofTransportation and the Texas
(03:42):
A&M Transportation Institute--apartnership between both of our
agencies really oriented andfostered on addressing a lot of
the most critical needs that weface in our industry. And those
needs have changed over time.
But, you know, as I just thinkabout the connection, the word
that certainly comes to me ispartnership.
Greg Winfree (04:02):
And certainly from, you know, where we sit
here at TTI, it was a stroke ofgenius with those founders that
you referenced, Marc. But thisis literally one of the first
instances of a recognition thatthe inherent talent and
expertise resident ininstitutes of higher education
work closely with the assetowners and the folks that need
(04:25):
to get the job done on behalfof their respective states in
building out the transportationnetwork. So, the fact that this
goes back to the very earlydays of those technologies,
when they started to becomeprofessionalized, really was a
stroke of genius. And you know,kind of the history is, most of
the work originally had beendone by academic researchers in
(04:47):
the College of Engineering; andthen the Board of Regents
looked and said, you know, weneed to streamline this process
and make it more efficient inhow it works with, at the time
the Highway Department and nowTxDOT. So that was the whole
cloth that TTI was createdfrom. We're thrilled that we
have our own staff, but evenmore thrilled that we still
(05:08):
have strong relationships withthe College of Engineering. You
know, education is at the coreof our mission as part of a
land-grant institution. So thefact that, you know, we still
work closely with those folkswho are teaching the next
generation of professionals aswell as executing in helping an
organization as significant asTxDOT execute its mission,
(05:29):
really has been tremendous.
Marc Williams (05:31):
Yeah, I think back to my career and my
engagement with TTI--I startedout as a research assistant
there in graduate school atTTI. And so I feel like I have
had the perspective of beingable to see and appreciate the
unique relationship that ouragencies have. And I think it's
really because of that closerelationship, there's
(05:53):
oftentimes an interchange ofpersonnel. Obviously, you all
work very closely with us onthe research initiatives that
we fund and support with youall, but I think that really is
what has led to the successthat we've seen in research and
innovation that not only hasimpacted our agencies in the
(06:16):
state of Texas, but it's hadnational, and even worldwide
impacts when it comes to thingslike safety, highway design,
structural design, and now withsome of the new innovative
technologies and areas thatwe're looking at that I'm sure
we'll get a chance to talkabout. You know, this
partnership goes far beyond ourtwo agencies in terms of level
of impact.
Greg Winfree (06:37):
Absolutely.
Allan Rutter (06:38):
So let's talk a little bit about, what do you
see as some of the mostpromising new developments in
our research efforts together?
What are the things that folkscan get excited about?
Greg Winfree (06:49):
Well, you know, certainly from TTI's
perspective, Marc and hissenior leadership team had the
tremendous foresight to reallystart an initiative to infuse
technology. And it's thebroadest sense of technology,
but bringing innovation to all25 TxDOT districts. And the
reason it was a brilliantstroke is that, when you put
(07:13):
the broad brush on it, whatworks in Yoakum district is not
gonna be the same thing thatworks in Houston, is not gonna
be the same thing that works inthe Pharr District. So, just
the fact that there is a topline --and if you use an NFL
perspective, a head coach thatsaid, look, this is what we're
gonna do from a teamperspective--it tells, you
know, the folks that areresponsible for executing in
(07:36):
the districts what theirmission is. But it's up to them
to determine what is theappropriate innovation, what is
the appropriate technologythat's gonna benefit their
region. So taking that approachreally has been very well
thought out and we're pleasedto be a partner in that regard.
Marc Williams (07:51):
We certainly appreciate TTI's role in that
with us. And I think one of thegreat things about your
organization, Greg, is that youall aren't just, you know, hole
up in the academic towers therein College Station--while it's
a great place, love it,
offices around the state. Youall are engaged in those
(08:13):
districts and working alongsidethem in these areas. You know,
I'm so blessed that we get towork in this era of
transportation because, youknow, you mentioned the
technological innovations thatare going on right now. We
think about automation,automated vehicles that, you
know ... watching outside mywindow here in Austin, you see
(08:34):
'em drive by every 5 or 10minutes.
infrastructure andcommunications technology and
now artificial intelligence andmachine learning. We've got a
rapid, rapid pace of changegoing on in our industry. And
we have to collectively keep upwith that pace of change and be
(08:58):
fully engaged as anorganization in looking at
where these new technologiesare taking us, where we've got
applications throughout all ofour business lines and all of
our geographic areas of thestate. And, you know, we really
do rely very heavily on TTI aspart of that partnership to
help us stay, one, up to speedwith the pace of change in
(09:22):
innovation, but also to seekout and validate and identify
those opportunities forapplication across what we do
as an agency to, again, at theend of the day, make things
better in our industry, makethings better for those who
rely upon and use ourtransportation system. And TTI
has just been a valuable assetfor us in that area.
Greg Winfree (09:44):
No , we greatly appreciate that. And, Allan,
Marc really touched on animportant distinction. You
know, there's the tremendousbrain trust that our institutes
of higher education that workon basic and exploratory
research, we wouldn't be wherewe are as a society without
those advancements. But TTI'ssweet spot is in applied
(10:05):
research, and I think one ofthe reasons that the
partnership works so well isthat TTI researchers roll their
sleeves up and get out in thefield right next to their TxDOT
partners and sponsors. Andthat's invaluable because, you
know, we are practicing ourdisciplines in the field in
real time and working withTxDOT to make a difference. And
(10:28):
that's just a tremendousopportunity from our
perspective.
Allan Rutter (10:31):
I think one of those examples of how that
works its way out is over thelast 10 years or so, as oil and
gas production have increasedin the state, TTI has worked
with TxDOT on how to keep upwith and respond to the
challenges that are associatedwith that in South Texas. About
10 years ago, it was more amatter of what are we gonna do
(10:52):
to keep up with the pavementimpacts of all this truck
transportation onfarm-to-market roads that
weren't designed for that. Iremember our folks helping the
district and the folks inAustin think about how to
adjust and adapt to the changeswith innovative approaches to
pavement maintenance andpavement design. In the last
(11:15):
five years in the Permian,we've done a lot together,
particularly with the OdessaDistrict, on applying
innovative technologies ontraffic analysis to help the
Odessa folks adapt to urbanlevels of traffic on a rural
infrastructure network. And tofind ways of increasing
transportation safety for allthe thousands of people who
(11:37):
work out there. It shows ourability to work with folks at a
regional level and to applydifferent kinds of technologies
to situations and problems thatexist on those regional basis .
Anything in response to that?
Greg Winfree (11:52):
Oh, absolutely.
You know, and you hit the nailon the head when we were
talking about innovation andtechnology being applied in the
different districts around thestate. And you've heard me out
on the stump speeches, Allan,say that TTI does everything
from pavement materials throughflying cars and out in the
Permian Basin, out in theOdessa District, that's exactly
what we did. We worked onadvanced technologies for
(12:16):
something that many folks wouldthink of as 20th Century
developments with pavement andmaterials, whether it's
asphalt, whether it's concrete,right? Those are kind of
longstanding infrastructurethat we've had. But there are
tweaks, there are innovations,there are new materials that
could impact performance in thefield. So one district may be
(12:37):
focused on that, but another,maybe in the Dallas region,
they're looking at advanced airmobility and how do we move
people in low-altitude flyingdrones, if you will. So that
covers the breadth of where TTIis impactful, but that also
covers the breadth of whatwe're talking about when we
look at the different needs forthe districts and the regions
around the state.
Marc Williams (12:58):
Yeah and, you know, one of the hallmarks of
our partnership has been howperiods and instances of crises
and problems have led us towork together to bring
innovation and solutions. Andthat not only happens in our
relationship, that's kind ofbeen the hallmark of innovation
throughout the history of ournation. But you know, in the
(13:20):
early days, particularly in theSixties and Seventies--with the
severe impacts we were seeingin roadside safety and deaths
on what was a growing highwaysystem and a growing dependence
on roads--and TTI and TxDOTworking together on things like
breakaway sign technologiesthat was born out of that
(13:41):
period of crisis. And youtalked, Allan, about some of
the challenges that we havefaced in the Permian area as
we've seen rapid development ofoil and gas out there. And
again, serious safetychallenges, significant
maintenance issues. That too, Ithink, has been a modern day
example of our two agenciescoming together and identifying
(14:04):
out of those challenges,innovation, and, importantly,
solutions. And we're seeingresults. The Odessa District,
which was home to the vastmajority of the oil and gas
production activity in ourstate, really saw a significant
decline this past year --it wasin 2023--in their safety and
fatality rates. And , uh, Ithink and believe that a lot of
(14:27):
that is thanks to theinvestment and the innovation
that we've brought to bear inthat area. You know, you don't
know who those individuals are,but we know we've saved lives
because of the efforts that wehave collectively put into a
large range of issues aroundthe state, the Permian and the
oil and gas area being one ofthose recently.
Allan Rutter (14:47):
Well , lemme shift a little bit to talking
about how we tell the story ofhow new transportation dollars
have been invested in thestate. Now, while the motor
fuels tax hasn't changed inTexas since 1991, the
legislature in Texas, voters in2014 and 2015 authorized new
funding into the state highwayfund, which now amounts to more
(15:09):
than $15 billion for theupcoming biennium. Now Marc,
your work in AASHTO brings youin contact with many state DOT
leaders whose constructionprograms are primarily funded
with federal formula dollars.
What does it mean for youragency and Texas drivers that
TxDOT has broader state fundingresources than other states?
Marc Williams (15:30):
Well, that's very important. That's a
responsibility and a vote ofconfidence that we don't take
lightly. And we certainly havean obligation to steward those
resources well and to put themto use. And one of the messages
that we've consistently heardfrom our legislature is to
execute and deliver. We hearthat from our commission as
well. And we've done that. Wehave , uh, been able to
(15:52):
successfully increase ourlettings by well over 30
percent in the past couple ofyears. And as a result, we're
putting more pavement on theground and making investments
around the state. You're seeingthose resources be put to use.
And I would argue that for usas an agency too , and the
(16:14):
outcome of that investment. AndI think TTI has helped us
demonstrate and prove this upin some of the partnership and
the work that we do together.
You know, Texas takes a lot ofpride in the fact that we are
one of the fastest-growingstates, the fastest in terms of
the number of new Texans everyday. We add between 1,300 and
(16:35):
1,500 new Texans a day, closeto about 800 new jobs a day,
you know, just based upon someof the latest statistics. And
that doesn't happen without theinfrastructure to support and
foster that growth anddevelopment. And that
infrastructure comes in avariety of ways, but I would
(16:55):
argue none more apparent thanthe transportation system that
pretty much every Texan uses orrelies upon every day . And
it's those resources that weput to use that help to foster
that economic growth that's soimportant for our state.
Allan Rutter (17:13):
It strikes me, Greg, one of the things about
that state funding, it helpsleverage federal formula funds
for planning and research andhow TTI works with both TxDOT
divisions and districts. Youwant to explain a little bit
about how TxDOT's financialposition allows us to help them
?
Greg Winfree (17:33):
No , absolutely.
It's a tremendous asset andwell thought -out by the state.
Just to touch on the point Marcwas making... In my tenure, I
recall a thousand people a daymoving to this state. Then it
was 1,100 and now we're at1,300 to 1,500. And I'll just
paraphrase a statement that thegovernor made. You know, folks
are coming to the state,they're not bringing water with
(17:54):
them, they're not bringingelectricity; and in what we do,
they're not bringing access tomobility or roadways. So having
that fund to be able to tapinto, to build out the
infrastructure, to not justimprove, but to give folks a
quality of life that theyanticipate and expect from a
state like Texas is the wisdomof the voting behind those two
(18:19):
funds from a state level. Now,that also pivots nicely because
the federal dollars that thestate gets--and I would be
remiss if I didn't recognizethe fact that Texas is known as
a donor state --meaning wecollect more from the taxes
from the federal trust fund,etc., Than we get back once
it's distributed back to the 50states. So that's always been a
(18:43):
sore topic, but Prop One andProp Seven help fill those gaps
and help round out theavailability of funding so that
the appropriate planning cantake place; and work with TxDOT
so that their mission and theirprojects are prioritized
properly, whether it'sregionally, whether it's by
(19:03):
population or whatever otherconsideration, right? Because
we have as much equity in therural parts of the state as we
do in the urban parts. Sogetting that right from a
planning perspective is wherethe federal dollars really
provide that level ofassistance. But rounding that
out with the state investmentreally puts us in the lead with
respect to our mission infostering mobility in this
(19:26):
great state.
Allan Rutter (19:28):
So, one of the things TTI has been working
with TxDOT is to provideinformation to the five members
of the Texas TransportationCommission and tell the story
about what kinds of projectsare being delivered with
TxDOT's annual lettingschedules and how those
projects are making adifference. Marc, what can you
tell us about how we're workingtogether on initiatives like
(19:48):
the Clear Lanes project, andtelling the story about what
difference those investmentsare making?
Marc Williams (19:55):
Sure, Allan. You know, the Clear Lanes
initiative, you know... We weretalking about the population
and the economic growth inTexas and, you know, one of the
outfalls of that is increasingcongestion levels and more
traffic on our roads. And muchof that is concentrated in our
major urban centers around thestate, Houston and the Dallas
Fort Worth metroplex and Austinand San Antonio. And one of the
(20:18):
initial calls of both GovernorGreg Abbott and Transportation
Commission Chairman Bruce Buggwas to target resources to
address those most congestedareas of the state. And so that
was what was the genesis behindthe Texas Clear Lanes
Initiative was-- to have afocused effort, a coordinated
(20:41):
and ongoing effort, sustainedeffort to address those areas.
And so we brought early on TTIinto that effort as a
partnership. TTI has been,again, nationally known for the
work that you all have done inthe Urban Mobility Report. And
then in Texas, in the analysisof what we refer to as the top
100 most congested roads inTexas, that report comes out
(21:06):
every year. And so nobody wasreally better positioned to
help us understand congestionand craft a strategy and a plan
and a program than TTI. And soyour agency has helped us to
sort of get our arms around,you know, where are these most
congested areas, what does thatmean to kind of ground truth
what we're talking about withcongestion and to provide, you
(21:28):
know, some objective analyticsbehind that that can guide our
commission's effort toprioritize the funds that they
can devote to this initiativeand to make decisions on how
and where we develop projectsand initiatives to address
congestion. And then also goingback and helping us look back
(21:50):
and to say, "Hey, are we makingan impact and are we seeing
benefits from theseinvestments?" And TTI has been
able to do that and demonstratethat, yes, even over the last
several years as VMT hasincreased, we've seen declining
congestion levels in our stateand in some of these most
congested urban areas. Nobody'sgonna argue that congestion has
(22:13):
gone away. It's still very muchthere, but we are seeing not
only a good plan and approach,but then also being able to go
back and validate, are wehaving an impact and having
results? And TTI h as beenessential for that in this
initiative.
Allan Rutter (22:28):
Now , Greg, one of the things that Marc just
mentioned was the work on ourannual mobility report, which
we have to thank Marc and TxDOTas one of our major sponsors
for that work today. But italso talks about how we track
congestion in metro areasaround the nation. Tell our
listeners a little more aboutthat report and how TTI has
been adding new technologiesinto congestion measurement
(22:51):
over time.
Greg Winfree (22:52):
That's a great question, Allan. It is a
document that is met with greatanticipation and trepidation.
So, elected officials,obviously that's the kind of
thing that they scurry to readbecause they wanna see where
they rank and they want to ,you know, be able to look at
neighboring vicinities andpoint the finger . So there are
(23:13):
some competitive jealousiesamongst elected officials, but
for the folks that runorganizations like Marc's that
are responsible for managing,or at least planning in advance
on how to manage issues likecongestion, it's
extraordinarily important tohave objective data and science
(23:33):
tools. And that's the hallmarkof what TTI produces. And
that's why that report bothnationally and at the state
level are so eagerlyanticipated. It's a great tool
from a planning perspective, asMarc pointed out, to prioritize
where those dollars go. Youknow, there are some areas if
you look at the list over time,that routinely stay in the same
(23:57):
spaces, right in the sameplaces. And cities like Atlanta
and New York, LA, Houston arealways identified as congestion
choke points in thetechnologies and the approaches
to address that become top ofthe list for those folks that
are engaged with respect toasset management and managing
(24:19):
mobility across our states . Sowe're just thrilled to be able
to be, again, an objectiveprovider of data and science
tools. We're pleased that it'sresonated nationally. Our
annual mobility report, as youknow, Allan, is usually picked
up by national media. USA Todayalways has a prominent feature
(24:39):
with that report. So congestionis/are the kind of issues that
are literally rubber hit theroad issues. These are issues
that every American deals with,they're top of mind. If they're
not top of mind, they'rereminded every rush hour. And
these are the issues that ringlegislators' phones off the
hooks. So it's important forall of us to keep moving the
(25:02):
ball forward with respect totrying to find solutions.
Whether it's through theinfusion of technology or other
approaches with respect tomonitoring, we take advantage
of new technologies, relativelynew like Bluetooth (anonymous
Bluetooth counting), sensors inroadways and modern vehicles
produce four terabytes of dataa day. And we've been saying
(25:25):
that's about 4,000 volumes ofEncyclopedia Britannica. So
that's a lot of data that's outthere and mining that data,
finding it to get actionableinformation, is where
organizations like TTI come into get those objective data
tools that folks like Marc andhis team rely upon.
Allan Rutter (25:47):
Yeah . One of the things, Greg, you just
mentioned, and we talked acouple of minutes ago about the
Texas Legislature, who askedvoters to authorize some new
transportation funding 10 yearsago. We are now in the midst of
the biennial Texas legislativesession, which got under way in
mid-January. We have newlegislators, a new house
speaker, changes in committeeleadership, new to the post,
(26:09):
but not certainly new to thelegislature. Long time state
rep Tom Cradock , who served asTexas House speaker from 2003
to 2009, will now be serving asthe chair of the House
Transportation Committee. Houseleadership has also created a
new Subcommittee onTransportation Funding. Now, in
the early part of the session,what kinds of subjects do
legislators want to talk to youtwo about? What kind of
(26:32):
committees ask for yourattention early?
Greg Winfree (26:36):
I'm gonna let Marc start with that one.
Marc Williams (26:38):
Well, you know, that is very front and center
to us right now. You know whatwe hear from them? You know, in
many ways it's, there's a lotof consistency expressing their
needs, local issues thatthey're seeking solutions for
wanting to understandopportunities for funding to
deliver on and execute onprojects to address those
(26:59):
needs. And so, you know, youconsistently hear that every
legislative session, but someof the themes that we've
probably seen a bit moreemphasis on this last
legislative session, and Ithink we're seeing this carry
forward into this currentlegislative session, is more of
a focus on some of themultimodal elements associated
(27:21):
with transportation,particularly related to freight
and goods movements. Thelegislature last year put in
$400 million for a ship channelimprovement and revolving fund
to address our ports, and thenanother $200 million for
investments into capitalprojects in the ports
(27:41):
themselves. They also allocateda total of $200 million on the
General Aviation side. And thatwas an increase of about 50 to
$60 million over what they'vehistorically authorized in
terms of just state and federalfunding. And now this
legislative session, we'recertainly having conversations
and hearing from thelegislature about the needs to
(28:02):
continue to sustain investmentsin ports and airports. But
we're seeing a lot of interestin what we can be doing to
support rail investment,particularly opportunities for
grade separations and supportfor shortline railroads. And
continuing to haveconversations about what are
the needs associated withtransit, particularly our urban
(28:23):
and rural transit systems thatrely very heavily on
transportation. And then youmentioned, Allan, the
subcommittee on transportationfunding on the House side, a
permanent subcommittee that'sbeen established that Terry
Canales out of the Valley,who's chaired house
transportation before, he willbe the chair of that
subcommittee and beginning tohave the conversation about,
well , what level of funding dowe need to be thinking about
(28:46):
going forward as a state tocontinue to make sure that we
maintain our competitiveposition when it comes to our
transportation infrastructureand the ability to move people
and goods and products andfoster that economic
development that I talkedabout. So those are some of the
themes that we've heard andthat I think will continue to
play out as we go through thelegislative session this
(29:09):
spring.
Allan Rutter (29:10):
Greg, why don't you talk a little bit about
both some of the themes you'rehearing and which committees do
you hear from early and whichcommittees do we hear from
later in the session?
Greg Winfree (29:19):
You know, as part of the A&M University System,
right, there are 19 systemmembers. So our first important
role is to appear before SenateFinance and the House
Appropriations Committee, justas an overarching review of who
Texas A&M is and how itsconstituent members operate
(29:42):
and, frankly, what their needsare. So that's kind of the top
line, but from a substantiveperspective, we testify along
with TxDOT and DPS and theDepartment of Motor Vehicles
before the House TransportationCommittee. You referenced
Representative Craddock . Now ,being the chair of that
committee, but also havingRepresentative Canales heading
(30:05):
up the transportation funding,is a great continuum of
knowledge in that committeebecause he had been the
committee chair for the pasttwo biennia. So we're thrilled
about that development. But tobe perfectly frank, our
relationship with thelegislature really winds up...
Because there was , there's afair measure of new faces, new
(30:29):
energies, every biennium. Sofor us, it started from scratch
to educate folks on who TTI isand also, importantly, who we
are not, and let them know whatwe do on behalf of the state,
how we partner with TxDOT andother agencies across the state
in this mission. So while thereare important committee
(30:51):
opportunities to present, Iwould be remiss if I left out
the Article III Committee. SoArticle III has to do with
educational institutions. Andeven though we're in
transportation, we fall intoArticle III because we're part
of the Texas A&M UniversitySystem. So there are some
oddities with respect to who weare, how we relate to the state
(31:12):
writ large, that need to beconstantly explained,
re-explained, and elucidated,if you will, for for new
members. So that's a constantchallenge. A lot of it is
in-office visits withlegislators and their staffers,
but to your specific question,the issues we hear tend to be
personalized. I rememberdistinctly the last biennium, a
(31:36):
representative from Houstonasked me, why isn't there a
highway-slash-interstate fromHouston to Austin? And I was
flummoxed
that and have an answer foryou." But it's those kinds of
issues that are top of mind fora legislator. I mean, another
(31:56):
biennium, we had a questionabout sound barriers along a
roadway that ran through herdistrict. So the top-of-line
issue, the pet issue thatlegislators have are the ones
that often get presented to us,even if they're not necessarily
in our bailiwick, they're justhappy to have a transportation
expert. And they know that ifthey present something, that we
(32:18):
don't have an answer, thatwe'll get on the hotline to
Marc and his team and get themthe kinds of information that
they need. So it's a little bitchallenging, but it's always a
great thrill to have thatopportunity to educate folks in
our capitol.
Allan Rutter (32:32):
So just as we talked about how the Texas
Legislature is reflecting quitea few changes, we have a new
administration at the nationallevel. Congress has confirmed a
new USDOT secretary, Sean Duffy. Greg, what have we learned
about Secretary Duffy'spriorities through his
confirmation hearing? What dowe know about what's important
to him?
Greg Winfree (32:52):
That's a great question, Allan. And you know,
there's one good thing aboutthe Department of
Transportation, and I heardthis from both previous
Republican and Democraticsecretaries and deputies. They
said, "look, there are noRepublican or Democratic
potholes, right?" These are thekitchen issues that all
Americans deal with. As Imentioned earlier, these are
(33:13):
the issues that ring theirlegislators phones off the
hook. And from theirperspective, this is
low-hanging fruit that thereought to be an answer for, as
Marc unfortunately has to dealwith on a day-to-day basis. So,
you know, we deal with thosekinds of day-to-day issues for
many folks, and that's what'simportant at DOT . So you
(33:36):
normally don't see significantswings from a mission
perspective. You certainly willhave swings from a policy or
priority perspective, but I wasencouraged to hear from
Secretary Duffy's confirmationhearing that they're still
focused on environmentalissues. They're still focused
(33:56):
on ensuring that transportationdoesn't have a negative impact
on communities writ large. Sothose are, you know, the kind
of important things. They'revery much focused on congestion
mitigation and other importantissues, like I said, that hit
folks in their homes and intheir communities. So from a
(34:16):
top-line perspective, I thinkthe DOT mission is solid. The
funding is there through theIIJA and through other funding
mechanisms--and that's thebipartisan infrastructure law
and others. So there is legacyfunding, generational funding,
if you will, that's availableto address these issues going
forward. But a lot more has tobe sussed out over time as they
(34:41):
get in and get comfortable inthe seat and comfortable with
the responsibilities,priorities present themselves,
right? So clearly aviationsafety is at the top of their
list now with this overturnedflight in Toronto and the
tragedy coming out of NationalAirport. So you deal with
things in real time , there arepriorities from a global
(35:02):
perspective, but at the end ofthe day, it's day-to-day, what
are you dealing with? What arethe hot button things that we
need to get right, right now?
And that's what they'regrappling with.
Allan Rutter (35:13):
So Marc, you also, as part of that National
Association of State DOTs, thesecretary talked to you guys at
the Washington briefing a weekor so ago. What did you hear
from him?
Marc Williams (35:23):
Well, certainly he was coming into that meeting
at the time, shortly after theresponse to the tragedy that
Greg referenced at ReaganNational Airport. And then
shortly after that, the crashas well in Philadelphia. And,
you know, that was SecretaryDuffy's second full day on the
(35:43):
job when that tragedy occurred.
And his agency obviously wasvery key to the response on
that. And so that has been anarea of focus, and he talked
about some of those issues withus. But as far as his
conveyance of his prioritiesand what they're doing with the
USDOT, you know, they'relooking really hard--and I
think we're seeing this rightnow at rethinking and even
(36:06):
restructuring some of theoperations within the USDOT and
the Federal HighwayAdministration. I think that
they believe that that's themission that their
administration has been taskedwith by the voters, is to kinda
re-look at the federalgovernment and seek out
opportunities to streamline ormake that more efficient. He
also talked about and hasdiscussed re-looking at that
(36:27):
state and federal partnershipand understanding that the
Federal Highway Administration,USDOT are there to help support
the work that the states do todeliver the transportation
program. And you know, by andlarge, FHWA doesn't build any
roads. It's the states that dothat--some exceptions with some
of the national lands--but 99.9percent of what goes on is
(36:51):
delivered by the states. And Ithink he certainly appreciates
that. He talked aboutre-looking at some of the
investment priorities that havebeen set by USDOT and FHWA, and
again, kind of looking at,okay, are we reflecting the
most critical priorities thatwe have at the national level
and at the local level? Andthen finally, delivery. At the
(37:13):
end of the day, you have to beable to effectively and
efficiently deliver on theprojects and deliver the
resources that you've beenentrusted with. It's the same
point of emphasis that we haveat the state level. And so
those were some of the themesthat I certainly heard from
Secretary Duffy. And when wehad the opportunity to hear
(37:33):
from him and meet him a coupleof weeks ago. And you're gonna
have to see how things begin toshake out. We'll have a Federal
Highway administrator announcedat some point in the future;
they'll begin to kind of buildout the team and over the
coming months, you'll reallybegin to better see and
appreciate the full breadth ofinitiatives that this
administration is wanting totake on and deliver with USDOT.
(37:57):
And so we have to continue tobe engaged with them--both TTI
and TxDOT are doing that atvarious levels--and to ensure
that as they're building outthese priorities that they are
adapting to and reflecting veryimportantly the needs that we
see within our state here inTexas.
Allan Rutter (38:15):
So, some of those subjects we just mentioned, and
when Greg talked about theinfrastructure law, which
expires in 2026, one of thethings we've seen is, the new
Congress has had a lot ofcongressional hearings to talk
about reauthorization and whatthat looks like. Marc, in our
final minutes, how are statedots preparing to engage in
(38:35):
that upcoming reauthorization?
How do you guys collectivelycommunicate to members of both
houses?
Marc Williams (38:43):
You're right.
There is certainly a lot ofenthusiasm and effort by
members of Congress,particularly the chairs of
those two respective committeeson the House and the Senate
side, to really jump in withboth feet and start this
process of reauthorization ofthe Federal Surface
Transportation bill--which isso important to what we do as
(39:06):
an agency and certainly impactswhat you all do at TTI--that
guides the federal funding thatwe rely upon for a significant
portion of what we do asorganizations. And so, whenever
that process begins, we workvery hard to be engaged not
only with our own congressionaldelegations, but also with
(39:28):
those offices of responsibilityin Congress--the Senate
Environment Public WorksCommittee, and the House
Transportation andInfrastructure Committee--to
help emphasize the needs thatare important to Texas and that
are important as a state. Andwe also engage with people like
AASHTO, the AmericanAssociation of State Highway
and Transportation Officials.
And so, you know, one of thepoints that we emphasize is the
(39:50):
impact that inflation has.
While we saw a significantincrease in funding through the
IIJA, the last reauthorizationbill, that increase has been
largely eroded, if not, even,we're in a deficit from the
buying power at the federallevel because the highway cost
index has grown by 62 percentin the past four years, which
(40:13):
is just a historical increasethat just--we've gotta have
additional resources if we'regonna be able to keep up with
and deliver what we need to.
Also, very important to us isemphasizing formula funding
that's predictable and that'sfair to the states like Texas
flexibility in that funding.
And then going back to, youknow, one of the things that
Greg pointed out is, yes, weare in many ways a donor state
(40:35):
. The current formulas don'treflect the growth that we've
seen over the past two decades.
And so, equity and fairness inthose formulas and the
appropriation of those funds togo to where the needs are now,
not where they were 20 yearsago, is an important emphasis
as well that we're working hardto convey in our conversations.
Allan Rutter (40:56):
Greg, TTI and TxDOT are both part of the ITS
America Board of Directors. Arethere any specific technology
issues that need to beaddressed in service
transportation reauthorization?
Greg Winfree (41:09):
That's a great question, now, and it also ties
in to priorities for thedepartment. One of the other
things we were pleased to hearis Secretary Duffy focus on was
a recognition for the need of acontinued infusion of
innovation and technology intothe transportation slash
mobility space. And that'stremendous. So what we've been
(41:32):
engaging, particularly with ourgovernment relations team and
our Washington, DC, office, butalso a fair amount of shuttle
diplomacy from College Stationheading on into Washington to
visit with legislators , tovisit with committee staff,
etc., to cement the importanceof the research enterprise.
(41:53):
There's a fair measure ofuncertainty emanating from
Washington around what is therole of university research,
what is the value, you know,the minutiae--like indirect
cost recovery and those sortsof things. Those are essential
tools for universities andinstitutes of higher education
(42:15):
to provide the backbone of theresearch. That, to be perfectly
honest, the federal governmentdoes not have the bench
strength to provide. So we areout visiting with every ear
that will hear us and everyoffice that will open their
door to talk about theimportance of university
research, how it adds to thebottom line. It is a quiet
(42:37):
asset, if you will, becauseit's not necessarily above the
fold headlines for many folks.
But those technologies, thoseadvancements that are above the
fold and that are top of linefor most Americans, got there
because of fundamental, basic,and applied research that
advanced it. So we're out infront in ensuring that that
(42:58):
message resonates in the hallsof power in Washington.
Allan Rutter (43:02):
Well, finally, let me ask each of you a
question we close each episodewith. With the big challenges
that you both face as agencyexecutives, what motivates you
to get up each morning to facethose challenges? Marc?
Marc Williams (43:15):
Well, you know, first and foremost, you have to
just love what you do. And Iwould go back to just my early
days as a student at Texas A&Mand the Civil Engineering
Department. When I first walkedin and got a job at TTI, I
really gained an appreciationand a love for what we can do
in this transportation field toimpact the lives of so many
(43:35):
people and to apply theengineering and the analytics
and just the capabilities thatour agencies bring to bear to
really do things effectivelyand more efficiently. And so,
one, it's just the love forbeing able to enjoy and do what
we get to do. And then I goback to what I talk about early
on, and it's the legacy that weenjoy with our two agencies,
(43:56):
with the history of our twoagencies and just the challenge
and the responsibility tosteward that going forward. So
that certainly is somethingthat drives my motivation, but
certainly something that Ienjoy about the relationship
that we have with our twoagencies.
Allan Rutter (44:10):
Greg ?
Greg Winfree (44:10):
Again, you know everything that Marc said, but
I'm blessed to be in a rolehere at TTI with a 700-strong
team of dedicated world-classprofessionals. And I tell them,
I'm a servant leader. I'm notyour boss. I work for y'all .
So, my job is to hopefullycreate opportunities to invest
(44:33):
in relationships, identifyareas where we could be growing
and expanding. But I tell themthat TTI is the 700-strong
people that make this placework. And I'm just
extraordinarily fortunate to bein a role to help us all
execute. Part and parcel ofthat, as Marc alluded to, is
(44:56):
the legacy. You know, I haveblack-and-white photos in most
instances of all prior six TTIdirectors dating back to June
24th, 1950 when we were stoodup. And I like to think that
those gentlemen are smiling atme every time I come out of my
office for carrying the ballforward. 'cause I, you know, I
tell our staff , you heard mesay this, Allan, we stand on
(45:19):
the shoulders of giants. It'sour responsibility to put the
institute in the best positionso that those coming behind us
can carry it forward. I mean,by definition, our tenure here
or at TxDOT is temporary,right? There's a slot of time
for our careers and then wehave to turn it over to the
next generation. So ensuringthat they are prepared, they're
(45:40):
educated, that's the brillianceof us having the ability to tap
into the students here at TexasA&M to get those brilliant,
bright minds into our pipelineso that when I walk out the
door, at some point I can walkout with my head held high
knowing that the nextgeneration is going to take us
to the next level. So it'sthose kinds of things that are
(46:02):
really most meaningful for me.
Allan Rutter (46:04):
Well, that's great. Once again guys, thanks
for being here. We reallyappreciate the time you spent
with us.
Marc Williams (46:10):
Thank you, Allan. Appreciate it, Greg.
Great discussion. Thoroughlyenjoyed it today.
Greg Winfree (46:15):
Yeah, and thanks so much, Marc, for your time.
Really appreciate it.
Allan Rutter (46:20):
So, Marc and Greg spoke about the challenges and
opportunities associated withmajor changes in elected and
appointed officials in Austinand in Washington, DC. I
certainly join our guests inhoping that transportation can
continue to be an issue withbipartisan support. Yet, this
conversation gives evidence ofone certainty amidst so much
change, and it is this (46:42):
that the 75-year relationship
between the Texas Department ofTransportation and the Texas
A&M Transportation Institute isas strong as ever . Thanks for
listening. If you liked whatyou heard or learned something,
please take just a minute togive us a review, subscribe,
and share this episode. And Iinvite you to join us next time
(47:06):
for another conversation aboutgetting ourselves and the stuff
we need from point A to pointB. Thinking Transportation is a
production of the Texas A&MTransportation Institute, a
member of The Texas A&MUniversity System. The show is
edited and produced by ChrisPourteau. I'm your host, Allan
Rutter. Thanks again forjoining us . We'll see you next
(47:28):
time.
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