July 24, 2025 • 32 mins
Motorcyclists love the freedom of the open road. But freedom isn't free, and sometimes the price incautious riders pay after a crash is severe brain injury or even death; both, the statistics tell us, are avoidable by wearing a helmet certified by testing. Outfitting with appropriate riding gear is key to maximizing the odds of--literally--walking away from a motorcycle crash. Today, we talk to Hong Zhang, director of education for the Snell Foundation--a leading national nonprofit dedicated to setting the most effective helmet safety standards--and TTI's Cathy Brooks, project specialist in the Institute's Road User Safety Program. | For more information on the Snell Foundation
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Allan Rutter (00:00):
Howdy, everyone.
Welcome to ThinkingTransportation, conversations
about how we get ourselves andthe stuff we need from one place
(00:21):
to another.
I'm Allan Rutter with the TexasA&M Transportation Institute.
Popular culture would have youbelieve that motorcycle riders
wear leather, ride together ingangs, and are involved in
criminal activities.
In the real world, motorcycleriders are normal people just
trying to do their thing amidstlanes full of heavier, larger
(00:43):
vehicles.
A group of Texans concernedabout the safety of
motorcyclists gathered in Austinrecently.
Today, we're going to talk withtwo people at that meeting
about how they are helpingmotorcycle riders make good
choices about their safety.
We're joined by Hong Zhang, thedirector of education for the
Snell Foundation, and by CathyBrooks, project specialist in
(01:04):
the Road User Safety Program forthe Texas A&M Transportation
Institute's Center forTransportation Safety.
Welcome to you
Hong Zhang (01:12):
Glad to be here.
Cathy Brooks (01:13):
Thank you for having me.
Allan Rutter (01:16):
So let's let our audience get to know you two a
little bit better.
How have each of you made thejourney to motorcycle safety?
Hong, let's start with you.
Hong Zhang (01:26):
I joined the Snell Memorial Foundation back in New
York.
I didn't know anything aboutriding a motorcycle or anything
about helmets, but SnellFoundation's mission is
exclusively on establishing thetoughest helmet standard for
(01:47):
autoracing motorcycling.
So I took a basic riding classfrom the Motorcycle Safety
Foundation.
That's how I first got engagedwith motorcycling and motorcycle
helmets.
Allan Rutter (02:05):
Okay.
Cathy, what about you?
Cathy Brooks (02:07):
I come from a motorcycling family.
My parents both rode activelywhen I was a child.
I'm considered a tank survivor.
As soon as I was able to sit upand hold on, I was on the tank
in front of my dad riding on hismotorcycle with him.
He wanted to get intomotorcycle safety training and
(02:29):
And he was going to take theMotorcycle Safety Foundation
basic course as part ofpreparing to become an
instructor rider coach andinvited me to go with them.
And so I did.
I did not have a motorcyclelicense at the time.
So I went to class with themand the instructors there, the
rider coach there said, youshould think about becoming an
instructor with your dad.
So I finished the classsuccessfully, bought a
(02:53):
motorcycle and started ridingwith my dad, spent over a week
traveling through 11 of thesouthern states, starting from
Texas and back, traveling a lotof windy roads, including the
Tail of the Dragon, for thosethat are familiar, multiple
times on that trip.
And then decided, hey, this isreally cool.
(03:15):
So I spent the next year goingaround the state of Texas with
multiple safety writing schools,helping out and learning about
the curriculum, learning aboutbecoming a writer coach.
Fell in love, was in the nexttraining class.
and been continuing and growingever since.
Allan Rutter (03:33):
So I came to this subject by watching Hong talk to
the Texas Motorcycle SafetyForum back in May in Austin.
So first, Cathy, can you tellus a little more about what the
Motorcycle Safety Forum is, howoften it convenes, who helps
organize it, who helps itsponsor it?
Cathy Brooks (03:52):
So the Motorcycle Safety Forum in Texas is unique
from what I understand with mycolleagues across the country.
And it was started many, manyyears ago through a statewide
motorcycle safety grant to TexasA&M Transportation Institute,
or TTI, funded by the TexasDepartment of Transportation.
(04:12):
There are many objectiveswithin that grant each year, and
one of them has been an annualforum.
They're very proud of that.
And there's also a TexasMotorcycle Safety Coalition.
A committee of that coalitionwould work with staff at TTI to
plan and organize the annualforum.
Unfortunately, the COVIDpandemic kind of changed the
(04:37):
world, including the annualforum.
We ended up having one virtualforum and then tried to do
hybrid and then in-person.
And so our numbers are notbuilt back up to what they were
pre-COVID, but we're working onit and we are looking for more
engagement with the community,finding out what they want to
learn more about.
So this year we brought Hong asone of our guest speakers from
(04:58):
out of state, which has beengreatly accepted within the
forum this year.
Allan Rutter (05:03):
Yeah, it was really impressive.
Here's one of the things Inoticed about Hong's remarks at
the forum.
They seem to contrast with amore imperative tone to some
safety messages.
Of course, that just may be howI hear them as a guy.
Use your seatbelt.
Don't drive drunk.
Obey the speed limits.
Pay attention in work zones.
The tenor of Hong's talk was alittle gentler.
(05:25):
Here's some information weshould consider as a community
of motorcycle riders.
It was consistent with the callmy wife and I tried to repeat
to our daughters throughouttheir young lives: make good
choices.
That kind of messaging must bemore effective with a community
of independent, almosticonoclastic people who choose
to ride a motorcycle.
(05:46):
Cathy, am I reading too muchinto this, or is your safety
messaging to motorcyclists alittle more inclusive and
collaborative?
Cathy Brooks (05:55):
I think it's a little bit of both.
We do have a lot of slow down,wear- your- gear kind of
messaging.
So there is some of that.
But yes, we do call on thecommunity to help us kind of
pilot test some of our messagingbefore it goes out.
Motorcyclists in general are abunch of freedom seekers.
They don't like being told whatto do, but also it's just one
(06:19):
big, huge community.
Riders are looking out for eachother.
They wave to each other whenthey pass on the street.
There's bike nights and meetupsand group rides, motorcycle
clubs, groups; even those thatgo out if there's a fallen rider
that they work together tosupport that rider and or their
families in case of a tragedy.
(06:41):
And safety hasn't always been apart of motorcycling culture.
If you think back over theyears, it wasn't cool to wear a
helmet.
So there's part of that.
That's a culture change.
And the best way to change aculture is within the community
itself, peer to peer.
And one final thought on thatis in Texas, there is a
(07:04):
motorcycle helmet law.
However, if you are 21 orolder, you are not required to
wear a helmet if you have enoughapproved medical coverage to
cover injuries of a motorcyclecrash, or you can prove
completion of a motorcyclesafety training course.
Allan Rutter (07:23):
So to get back to that collaborative culture,
Hong, is that something that youtry to do as part of your
educational outreach throughoutthe country?
Hong Zhang (07:32):
Yeah, indeed, it has been.
And I've been the educationdirector for over 20 years.
In this position, I getinvolved with all these
safety-oriented people a lot,and a lot of them assume Snell
Foundation's own mission is headinjury prevention through
(07:54):
helmet use.
So when I go out and sometimespeople say, hey, don't get out
there too far, maybe you'll getegged by those people who are
against helmet use.
And I said, no, because wealways take the position that
our role is to encourage themanufacturing of the most
(08:18):
protective headgear, create thebest helmet out there for people
who are inclined to wear themto have the best one on their
head.
And my job as the educationdirector is to offer them
information about how theseprotective helmets can really
(08:40):
change an outcome in thescenario of a crash and let them
make their educated decision.
Living in California and NewYork before that, both state
have mandatory helmet law, Westill see quite a large
percentage of the riders chooseto use no helmet or
(09:03):
non-protective helmet of theirchoice.
We call it bogus helmets orbeanie helmets.
So we still believe the mosteffective way for riders to get
best protection is to educatethem with the facts.
And so that even when theychoose to buy a protective
(09:26):
helmets, there's still theelement of using those
protective helmets in thecorrect fashion.
And every time they ride,rather than leaving helmets in a
garage, for instance, on ashort run- - who said those
short runs are safer, right?
Allan Rutter (09:45):
Well, I appreciate being able to learn some inside
baseball terminology.
I'm going to have to figure outwhere to use the word beanie
helmet somewhere.
So let's talk a little bit moreabout motorcycles in Texas.
According to the TexasDepartment of Motor Vehicles,
about 335,000 motorcycles wereregistered in Texas in 2021.
And that number is about22 percent lower than motorcycle
(10:08):
registrations 10 years before.
So we have fewer motorcycles onthe road.
Cathy, can you share any dataon demographics of motorcycle
riders in Texas?
Cathy Brooks (10:20):
Sure.
According to our 2021 Texasdriver licensing data, there's
over a million licensedmotorcyclists in the state of
Texas.
In 2021, about 88 percent weremale and 12 percent were female.
As far as age goes, our biggestpercentage in 2021 was the 51
(10:44):
to 65 year olds; 43 percent ofthe females fell within that
range and 38 percent of themales fell within that age range
for that year.
And I went back and kind ofcompared some of our crash data
through our crash recordsinformation system from
Department of Transportation.
(11:05):
And in 2021, There were over7,800 motorcycle-involved
crashes, and of those, 6 percentwere female riders and
93 percent were male riders.
Allan Rutter (11:22):
So male riders are proportionally more of the
motorcycle license holders, andthey tend to also be
overrepresented in crashstatistics.
Cathy Brooks (11:32):
Correct.
Allan Rutter (11:34):
So, Cathy, can you tell our listeners a little bit
about licensing of motorcycleoperators in Texas?
Are they required to have aspecial motorcycle license?
And as an adult, what would Ineed to do to obtain a
motorcycle license?
Cathy Brooks (11:49):
So, yes, a Class M or motorcycle license is
required in the state of Texas,and that can be either a
standalone Class M license, as amotorcycle only or in
combination with any otherclass, such as the Class C for
passenger vehicles or thecommercial Class A or B.
Without a Class M when you'reriding a motorcycle, you're
(12:11):
unlicensed for that vehicletype.
The only way to get the licenseis by taking the course.
So what do you need to do?
In Texas, you're required totake an entry-level rider
training course approved by theTexas Department of Licensing
and Regulation.
They have beginner for someonewith absolutely no experience,
(12:32):
intermediate for those thatcurrently have experience and
may have got caught or may nothave gotten caught yet, and also
three-wheel entry-level orlicense waiver courses that
qualify.
So find a course, get acompletion certificate, or MSB-
8, contact your local Departmentof Public Safety licensing
(12:54):
office.
Take your MSB-8 and anythingelse they ask you to bring, pay
your fee, and you have yourClass M license.
You're legal.
Hong Zhang (13:04):
Cathy, earlier you said the Texas law only require
people under 21 to wear helmets.
Anybody over 21 are waived aslong as they have medical
insurance or have passed yourclass.
Does that mean that thosepeople who get motorcycling
(13:28):
licenses through your classautomatically got the permission
to ride a motorcycle not onlylegally, but also without
a helmet, even though they areunder 21?
Cathy Brooks (13:41):
You bring up a great point because since
September 1 of 2009, it has beenrequired to take a motorcycle
safety course to get yourlicense in Texas.
And at the same time, you canbecome exempt from wearing a
helmet if you are 21 or olderand have completed a motorcycle
(14:02):
safety course.
If you are under 21, even ifyou have completed a motorcycle
safety course and have yourClass M license, you still must
wear a helmet.
Hong Zhang (14:12):
I see.
I see.
Cathy Brooks (14:15):
However, I will say this.
In the class, we stronglyrecommend and show the benefits
of wearing a helmet.
We highly encourage choosingsafety and lowering risk in
riding.
And we even talk about thedifferent types of motorcycle
(14:37):
helmets and which ones can giveyou more protection versus less.
So by taking the course, we'reeducating on the importance of
wearing one and wearing a goodone.
It's worth the investment toprotect your head and brain when
riding.
A helmet is your bestprotection against serious
(14:57):
injury and fatalities on amotorcycle.
Allan Rutter (15:00):
Speaking of license holders, let's talk a
little bit more about motorcyclesafety, the title subject of
the forum just held in Austin.
Cathy, are there more crashesthat involve non-license holders
than those that have a license?
Cathy Brooks (15:17):
Going back to that data that I looked at to
compare our 2021 licensedmotorcyclists, of all the crash
injury types, 49 percent did nothave a class M to almost half;
37 percent did not have ahelmet.
And again, the men were higherpercentages than the women in
(15:40):
both of those categories.
Although in theno-helmet [category], they were
getting kind of close.
Allan Rutter (15:45):
So it would seem to say something about the value
of that motorcycle safetytraining that's required to have
a license that not having oneis about half of all crash
types.
Cathy Brooks (15:57):
Correct.
In 2021, when we had over 7,800crashes, over 2,500 of those
resulted in a serious injury orfatality.
Allan Rutter (16:11):
One of the speakers at the forum had a set
of slides about some of thatcrash data, and they had
mentioned that 57 percent ofriders in those serious crash
types, fatal or serious, did nothave a license at the time of
the crash.
Does that sound about right?
Cathy Brooks (16:28):
So looking just at the 2021 data that I looked up
this morning of the suspectedserious injury and fatalities,
there were 42 percnet that didnot have a Class M license just
for that year.
If you look over the long termfrom 2016 through 2023, there's
49 percent that were notlicensed, did not have a Class
(16:51):
M.
There's another 6 percent thatwe don't know what kind of
license type they have.
Allan Rutter (16:56):
One of the trends that you noted in your remarks
was that while motorcycleregistrations might be
declining, motorcycle fatalitiesin Texas have been increasing.
Other speakers at the forumnoted that this upward trend
included both fatalities andserious injuries.
Is this Texas trend somethingyou're seeing in other states
(17:17):
with high numbers ofmotorcyclists like California
and Florida?
Are fatalities for motorcycleson the rise recently?
Hong Zhang (17:25):
I didn't compare them for this time period.
Texas' number, the fatalitynumber rising was right after
COVID consistently for fouryears for the data that's
available.
For other states, depending onwhich state you're comparing to,
(17:45):
yes, some are going up, someare holding flat.
As far as I know, Californiaseemed like the same trend in
Texas.
It's going up.
Allan Rutter (17:56):
So what might some of the factors be that are
leading to growing numbers offatalities among motorcycle
riders?
Hong Zhang (18:05):
Ii don't have data to really talk about specific
ones but generally I think thetrending up has a lot to do with
the number of people in thesestates.
So if [in] Texas, the generalpopulation is on the rise
too, so the general road trafficcondition would be worse just
(18:30):
by common sense.
And the numbers that Cathycited, close to half of these
fatal accidents involve riderswithout a license.
I would assume that has a lotto do with these fatalities and
seriousness of crashes.
Allan Rutter (18:53):
So some of that's about exposure and some of
that's about training or lack ofit.
Hong Zhang (18:59):
Right.
I think Cathy's point earlieris very well taken here.
At Snell Foundation, we workwith different groups of people
and motorcyclists have thistendency of being the risk
takers because by common sense,people would know motorcyclists
(19:21):
are exposed to higher impactseverity, right?
But also this group, probablylike a lot of other people, just
from their own experience,assume motorcyclists especially
on short ride, neighborhood ridemight be safe compared with,
(19:42):
say, GP racing or even autoracing.
But the fact is, trafficcondition is a lot worse for
collision and serious impact formotorcyclists compared with
high- speed F1 or NASCAR racing.
because people are not thinkingabout the racing track actually
(20:08):
was designed to increasesafety.
There's bump protection rulesand skilled drivers and the
vehicles that's padded up inevery way to increase the level
of protection in case ofcollision.
Whereas motorcyclist was openfor so many risk factors that
(20:29):
are not involved in racing atall.
Allan Rutter (20:33):
So let's talk a little about something that
we've mentioned in passing,motorcycle helmet use.
And Hong, you were talkingabout the fact that the Snell
Foundation's job is to make surethat people have choices of the
most protective devicespossible.
But you also noted thatnationally over a period from
2014 through 2023, according tothe National Highway Traffic
(20:57):
Safety Administration,motorcycle crash fatalities
included about 49 percent with ahelmet and 46.5 percent without
one.
What is your data telling aboutmotorcycle crashes and helmet
use in Texas?
Hong Zhang (21:14):
There isn't a lot of information for Texas, per se,
except the data that Cathyalready shared, which is about a
third of the motorcyclistsinvolved in fatal collisions had
no helmet at all.
So that is slightly higher thanthe national data.
(21:37):
And also from the national dataon helmet use, actually from
2020 and 2021 and up, the surveyfrom NHTSA showed that there's
almost a 9 percent increase ofhelmet usage, nationwide
(21:57):
average.
Whereas in Texas, we don't seethat rate of increase among
helmet users.
Allan Rutter (22:06):
So let's talk a little bit about more of some of
the data that you shared at theforum that demonstrates the
effectiveness of motorcyclehelmet use.
That's certainly one of thethings to try to help people
understand in your work at theSnell Foundation.
How effective are helmets inmitigating the safety impacts
after a crash?
Hong Zhang (22:27):
In the data collected nationally by NHTSA,
motorcycle helmets are effectivein preventing 37 percent of
fatalities.
In other words, if nobody wereusing helmets at all, nationwide
fatalities related tomotorcycling is going to
(22:49):
increase by 37 percent.
And for preventing braininjury, the number is
effectiveness at 68 percent.
So by that number, this is verybeneficial; because you think
about the exposure,motorcyclists are-- like I
(23:12):
mentioned earlier-- theenvironment is very hostile for
motorcyclists.
And like Cathy just pointedout, [a] helmet is the number
one safety device that you canuse as a motorcyclist while you
are out there, no matter howslow you're going.
(23:32):
Even just standing still [you]hit your head on a concrete
floor could be fatal.
So imagine the travelingvelocity that a moving vehicle
is involving your whole bodyinto.
So going bareheaded is really,really risky for anybody, no
(23:54):
matter how skillful their ridinglevel is.
Allan Rutter (24:00):
Well, it's certainly one of the reasons why
when I'm even biking on mybicycle around our neighborhood
or on our trails or on our localstreets, I've always got a
helmet.
So you've talked a little bitabout how the Snell Foundation
has been engaged in helmetdesign or at least helmet
certification.
Tell us a little more about theorigins of the foundation and
(24:20):
what you do in setting helmetstandards and certifying helmets
that meet those standards.
Hong Zhang (24:26):
Snell Memorial Foundation was the name for the
Snell Foundation when it wasestablished to memorialize a
auto racer.
His name is Pete Snell.
He died in an auto racingaccident hosted by the Sports
Car Club of America in 1956.
(24:46):
So there was a lot of sadnessand memorial funds were raised.
And one of the board member forSports Car Club of America, Dr.
George Slively, started thisidea of setting up a nonprofit
organization with the solepurpose of research on how to
(25:10):
set higher performance standardfor crash helmet to protect the
racers better.
A year later, after Pete Snelldied, the foundation was set up
in San Francisco and theresearch was done in two years.
And for the first standard in1959, when the Snell standard
(25:36):
was published, only two helmetswere qualified and recommended
to racers.
Basically, Dr.
George Snively had a verypragmatic approach.
As a physician, he understoodwhat [the] human head needs in
crash scenarios.
Then when all the racing eventsonly allow Snell-certified
(26:01):
helmets to participate in theseevents, all the manufacturers of
the helmets at the time startto build better helmets, because
otherwise nobody would purchasetheir helmet.
So the foundation's goal isalways to point out to the
(26:22):
helmet industry where the bar isin terms of head- injury
prevention and helmet testingcriteria.
And the foundation onlyqualifies the most protective
headgear, and the reputationremains today.
People look for the snail nameinside a helmet or on the boxes,
(26:44):
and they use it as a way tochoose the most protective gear.
So the NASCAR racers all wearSnell- certified helmets, for
instance.
Allan Rutter (26:57):
So it sounds like that research has been leading
toward both in terms of theracing helmet and the motorcycle
helmet, trying to protect frombrain injury in those events of
vehicles in motion.
I think it can be contrastedwith helmet design for football
players.
That's more lower impact,repetitive head injuries.
(27:18):
These are higher speed, higherimpact.
And once you've been in anaccident, don't you usually
recommend somebody to go get anew helmet?
Hong Zhang (27:27):
Yes, definitely.
Snell standards are allapplying to vehicular activity
or high speed, one-time crashscenario.
it's not for sports activitiessuch as baseball, football; and
because the material used forthe crash helmets has the
(27:49):
capability of really managingvery high level of impact, the
downside is, once it's used toabsorb these high- level impact,
they are not useful anymore;they're only good for one blow.
And so that helmet is no longergoing to provide any adequate
(28:10):
level of protection.
So it should be replaced.
Allan Rutter (28:15):
Similarly, something else that our TTI
colleagues do a lot is testguardrails.
If somebody drives a vehicleinto a guardrail, it needs to be
replaced because it's done itsjob, but it's not going to be
able to do that job again.
Hong Zhang (28:28):
Exactly, because the structure inside the helmet
that takes the blow is a foamthat does not have memory.
Once it's collapsed in theprocess of this crash, it won't
bounce back to take anotherblow.
So we say here, use your helmetlike a tissue paper-- blow it
(28:49):
once and throw it away.
Allan Rutter (28:51):
It's something that's easy to remember.
Hong Zhang (28:53):
Right.
Allan Rutter (28:54):
Well, I can tell from our conversation today that
both of you have plenty ofpassion for motorcycle safety.
What are some of the reasonsthat motivate you to show up for
work every day?
Cathy, we'll start with you.
Cathy Brooks (29:06):
Motorcycling has had a huge impact in my life,
both in the positive and thenegative.
And anything that I can do tohelp other riders find the joy
of riding while considering therisks and choosing to reduce
their risks--get trained, getlicensed, wear good gear, a good
(29:29):
helmet, and make good choiceswhile riding- -it's worth
getting up and reaching out tothose folks.
Allan Rutter (29:35):
Hong, how about you?
Hong Zhang (29:37):
Well, my parents were both retired physicians.
So when I was going to college,their expectation was I'm going
to the medical school.
And so when I decided I didn'twant to be a doctor, this is
still in my head that my parentswanted me to be in a service of
(30:00):
saving people and doing workthat's worthwhile.
So I felt very, very rewardingwhen I work in this field for so
many years now, more than 30years.
And I can always proudly tellmy parents that I have saved
more lives than the two of themcombined.
Allan Rutter (30:22):
That's a great line.
I like that a lot.
Well, listen, I reallyappreciate the two of you
spending time with us today andhelping our listeners understand
more about motorcycle ridingand how to do so safely.
It's been a real pleasure.
I've learned a lot and I reallyappreciate it.
Thanks to both of you.
Hong Zhang (30:40):
Thank you for having me.
Anybody has questions, alwaysfeel free to call me or email me
at the Snell Foundation.
Speaker 01 (30:49):
Thank you, Allan.
It has been a pleasure.
I appreciate the invitation.
Allan Rutter (30:55):
Hong and Cathy identified two things motorcycle
riders can do to stay safe onTexas roads.
First, learn how to ride at amotorcycle safety course so that
you can get the Class M licenserequired by law.
Second, wear a certified helmetwhenever you ride to improve
your odds in surviving a crash.
In these ways, motorcycleriders can do their part in
(31:18):
driving like a Texan, the phraseour TxDOT partners use to
encourage us all to drive withkindness and courtesy to make
every mile a safe one.
Thanks for listening.
If you liked what you heard orlearned something, please take
just a minute to give us areview, subscribe, and share
this episode.
I invite you to join us nexttime for another conversation
(31:42):
about getting ourselves and thestuff we need from point A to
point B.
Thinking Transportation is aproduction of the Texas A&M
Transportation Institute, amember of The Texas A&M
University System.
The show is edited and producedby Chris Pourteau.
I'm your host, Allan Rutter.
Thanks again for joining us.
We'll see you next time.
Howdy, everyone.
Welcome to ThinkingTransportation, conversations
about how we get ourselves andthe stuff we need from one place
(00:21):
to another.
I'm Allan Rutter with the TexasA&M Transportation Institute.
Popular culture would have youbelieve that motorcycle riders
wear leather, ride together ingangs, and are involved in
criminal activities.
In the real world, motorcycleriders are normal people just
trying to do their thing amidstlanes full of heavier, larger
(00:43):
vehicles.
A group of Texans concernedabout the safety of
motorcyclists gathered in Austinrecently.
Today, we're going to talk withtwo people at that meeting
about how they are helpingmotorcycle riders make good
choices about their safety.
We're joined by Hong Zhang, thedirector of education for the
Snell Foundation, and by CathyBrooks, project specialist in
(01:04):
the Road User Safety Program forthe Texas A&M Transportation
Institute's Center forTransportation Safety.
Welcome to you
Hong Zhang (01:12):
Glad to be here.
Cathy Brooks (01:13):
Thank you for having me.
Allan Rutter (01:16):
So let's let our audience get to know you two a
little bit better.
How have each of you made thejourney to motorcycle safety?
Hong, let's start with you.
Hong Zhang (01:26):
I joined the Snell Memorial Foundation back in New
York.
I didn't know anything aboutriding a motorcycle or anything
about helmets, but SnellFoundation's mission is
exclusively on establishing thetoughest helmet standard for
(01:47):
autoracing motorcycling.
So I took a basic riding classfrom the Motorcycle Safety
Foundation.
That's how I first got engagedwith motorcycling and motorcycle
helmets.
Allan Rutter (02:05):
Okay.
Cathy, what about you?
Cathy Brooks (02:07):
I come from a motorcycling family.
My parents both rode activelywhen I was a child.
I'm considered a tank survivor.
As soon as I was able to sit upand hold on, I was on the tank
in front of my dad riding on hismotorcycle with him.
He wanted to get intomotorcycle safety training and
(02:29):
And he was going to take theMotorcycle Safety Foundation
basic course as part ofpreparing to become an
instructor rider coach andinvited me to go with them.
And so I did.
I did not have a motorcyclelicense at the time.
So I went to class with themand the instructors there, the
rider coach there said, youshould think about becoming an
instructor with your dad.
So I finished the classsuccessfully, bought a
(02:53):
motorcycle and started ridingwith my dad, spent over a week
traveling through 11 of thesouthern states, starting from
Texas and back, traveling a lotof windy roads, including the
Tail of the Dragon, for thosethat are familiar, multiple
times on that trip.
And then decided, hey, this isreally cool.
(03:15):
So I spent the next year goingaround the state of Texas with
multiple safety writing schools,helping out and learning about
the curriculum, learning aboutbecoming a writer coach.
Fell in love, was in the nexttraining class.
and been continuing and growingever since.
Allan Rutter (03:33):
So I came to this subject by watching Hong talk to
the Texas Motorcycle SafetyForum back in May in Austin.
So first, Cathy, can you tellus a little more about what the
Motorcycle Safety Forum is, howoften it convenes, who helps
organize it, who helps itsponsor it?
Cathy Brooks (03:52):
So the Motorcycle Safety Forum in Texas is unique
from what I understand with mycolleagues across the country.
And it was started many, manyyears ago through a statewide
motorcycle safety grant to TexasA&M Transportation Institute,
or TTI, funded by the TexasDepartment of Transportation.
(04:12):
There are many objectiveswithin that grant each year, and
one of them has been an annualforum.
They're very proud of that.
And there's also a TexasMotorcycle Safety Coalition.
A committee of that coalitionwould work with staff at TTI to
plan and organize the annualforum.
Unfortunately, the COVIDpandemic kind of changed the
(04:37):
world, including the annualforum.
We ended up having one virtualforum and then tried to do
hybrid and then in-person.
And so our numbers are notbuilt back up to what they were
pre-COVID, but we're working onit and we are looking for more
engagement with the community,finding out what they want to
learn more about.
So this year we brought Hong asone of our guest speakers from
(04:58):
out of state, which has beengreatly accepted within the
forum this year.
Allan Rutter (05:03):
Yeah, it was really impressive.
Here's one of the things Inoticed about Hong's remarks at
the forum.
They seem to contrast with amore imperative tone to some
safety messages.
Of course, that just may be howI hear them as a guy.
Use your seatbelt.
Don't drive drunk.
Obey the speed limits.
Pay attention in work zones.
The tenor of Hong's talk was alittle gentler.
(05:25):
Here's some information weshould consider as a community
of motorcycle riders.
It was consistent with the callmy wife and I tried to repeat
to our daughters throughouttheir young lives: make good
choices.
That kind of messaging must bemore effective with a community
of independent, almosticonoclastic people who choose
to ride a motorcycle.
(05:46):
Cathy, am I reading too muchinto this, or is your safety
messaging to motorcyclists alittle more inclusive and
collaborative?
Cathy Brooks (05:55):
I think it's a little bit of both.
We do have a lot of slow down,wear- your- gear kind of
messaging.
So there is some of that.
But yes, we do call on thecommunity to help us kind of
pilot test some of our messagingbefore it goes out.
Motorcyclists in general are abunch of freedom seekers.
They don't like being told whatto do, but also it's just one
(06:19):
big, huge community.
Riders are looking out for eachother.
They wave to each other whenthey pass on the street.
There's bike nights and meetupsand group rides, motorcycle
clubs, groups; even those thatgo out if there's a fallen rider
that they work together tosupport that rider and or their
families in case of a tragedy.
(06:41):
And safety hasn't always been apart of motorcycling culture.
If you think back over theyears, it wasn't cool to wear a
helmet.
So there's part of that.
That's a culture change.
And the best way to change aculture is within the community
itself, peer to peer.
And one final thought on thatis in Texas, there is a
(07:04):
motorcycle helmet law.
However, if you are 21 orolder, you are not required to
wear a helmet if you have enoughapproved medical coverage to
cover injuries of a motorcyclecrash, or you can prove
completion of a motorcyclesafety training course.
Allan Rutter (07:23):
So to get back to that collaborative culture,
Hong, is that something that youtry to do as part of your
educational outreach throughoutthe country?
Hong Zhang (07:32):
Yeah, indeed, it has been.
And I've been the educationdirector for over 20 years.
In this position, I getinvolved with all these
safety-oriented people a lot,and a lot of them assume Snell
Foundation's own mission is headinjury prevention through
(07:54):
helmet use.
So when I go out and sometimespeople say, hey, don't get out
there too far, maybe you'll getegged by those people who are
against helmet use.
And I said, no, because wealways take the position that
our role is to encourage themanufacturing of the most
(08:18):
protective headgear, create thebest helmet out there for people
who are inclined to wear themto have the best one on their
head.
And my job as the educationdirector is to offer them
information about how theseprotective helmets can really
(08:40):
change an outcome in thescenario of a crash and let them
make their educated decision.
Living in California and NewYork before that, both state
have mandatory helmet law, Westill see quite a large
percentage of the riders chooseto use no helmet or
(09:03):
non-protective helmet of theirchoice.
We call it bogus helmets orbeanie helmets.
So we still believe the mosteffective way for riders to get
best protection is to educatethem with the facts.
And so that even when theychoose to buy a protective
(09:26):
helmets, there's still theelement of using those
protective helmets in thecorrect fashion.
And every time they ride,rather than leaving helmets in a
garage, for instance, on ashort run- - who said those
short runs are safer, right?
Allan Rutter (09:45):
Well, I appreciate being able to learn some inside
baseball terminology.
I'm going to have to figure outwhere to use the word beanie
helmet somewhere.
So let's talk a little bit moreabout motorcycles in Texas.
According to the TexasDepartment of Motor Vehicles,
about 335,000 motorcycles wereregistered in Texas in 2021.
And that number is about22 percent lower than motorcycle
(10:08):
registrations 10 years before.
So we have fewer motorcycles onthe road.
Cathy, can you share any dataon demographics of motorcycle
riders in Texas?
Cathy Brooks (10:20):
Sure.
According to our 2021 Texasdriver licensing data, there's
over a million licensedmotorcyclists in the state of
Texas.
In 2021, about 88 percent weremale and 12 percent were female.
As far as age goes, our biggestpercentage in 2021 was the 51
(10:44):
to 65 year olds; 43 percent ofthe females fell within that
range and 38 percent of themales fell within that age range
for that year.
And I went back and kind ofcompared some of our crash data
through our crash recordsinformation system from
Department of Transportation.
(11:05):
And in 2021, There were over7,800 motorcycle-involved
crashes, and of those, 6 percentwere female riders and
93 percent were male riders.
Allan Rutter (11:22):
So male riders are proportionally more of the
motorcycle license holders, andthey tend to also be
overrepresented in crashstatistics.
Cathy Brooks (11:32):
Correct.
Allan Rutter (11:34):
So, Cathy, can you tell our listeners a little bit
about licensing of motorcycleoperators in Texas?
Are they required to have aspecial motorcycle license?
And as an adult, what would Ineed to do to obtain a
motorcycle license?
Cathy Brooks (11:49):
So, yes, a Class M or motorcycle license is
required in the state of Texas,and that can be either a
standalone Class M license, as amotorcycle only or in
combination with any otherclass, such as the Class C for
passenger vehicles or thecommercial Class A or B.
Without a Class M when you'reriding a motorcycle, you're
(12:11):
unlicensed for that vehicletype.
The only way to get the licenseis by taking the course.
So what do you need to do?
In Texas, you're required totake an entry-level rider
training course approved by theTexas Department of Licensing
and Regulation.
They have beginner for someonewith absolutely no experience,
(12:32):
intermediate for those thatcurrently have experience and
may have got caught or may nothave gotten caught yet, and also
three-wheel entry-level orlicense waiver courses that
qualify.
So find a course, get acompletion certificate, or MSB-
8, contact your local Departmentof Public Safety licensing
(12:54):
office.
Take your MSB-8 and anythingelse they ask you to bring, pay
your fee, and you have yourClass M license.
You're legal.
Hong Zhang (13:04):
Cathy, earlier you said the Texas law only require
people under 21 to wear helmets.
Anybody over 21 are waived aslong as they have medical
insurance or have passed yourclass.
Does that mean that thosepeople who get motorcycling
(13:28):
licenses through your classautomatically got the permission
to ride a motorcycle not onlylegally, but also without
a helmet, even though they areunder 21?
Cathy Brooks (13:41):
You bring up a great point because since
September 1 of 2009, it has beenrequired to take a motorcycle
safety course to get yourlicense in Texas.
And at the same time, you canbecome exempt from wearing a
helmet if you are 21 or olderand have completed a motorcycle
(14:02):
safety course.
If you are under 21, even ifyou have completed a motorcycle
safety course and have yourClass M license, you still must
wear a helmet.
Hong Zhang (14:12):
I see.
I see.
Cathy Brooks (14:15):
However, I will say this.
In the class, we stronglyrecommend and show the benefits
of wearing a helmet.
We highly encourage choosingsafety and lowering risk in
riding.
And we even talk about thedifferent types of motorcycle
(14:37):
helmets and which ones can giveyou more protection versus less.
So by taking the course, we'reeducating on the importance of
wearing one and wearing a goodone.
It's worth the investment toprotect your head and brain when
riding.
A helmet is your bestprotection against serious
(14:57):
injury and fatalities on amotorcycle.
Allan Rutter (15:00):
Speaking of license holders, let's talk a
little bit more about motorcyclesafety, the title subject of
the forum just held in Austin.
Cathy, are there more crashesthat involve non-license holders
than those that have a license?
Cathy Brooks (15:17):
Going back to that data that I looked at to
compare our 2021 licensedmotorcyclists, of all the crash
injury types, 49 percent did nothave a class M to almost half;
37 percent did not have ahelmet.
And again, the men were higherpercentages than the women in
(15:40):
both of those categories.
Although in theno-helmet [category], they were
getting kind of close.
Allan Rutter (15:45):
So it would seem to say something about the value
of that motorcycle safetytraining that's required to have
a license that not having oneis about half of all crash
types.
Cathy Brooks (15:57):
Correct.
In 2021, when we had over 7,800crashes, over 2,500 of those
resulted in a serious injury orfatality.
Allan Rutter (16:11):
One of the speakers at the forum had a set
of slides about some of thatcrash data, and they had
mentioned that 57 percent ofriders in those serious crash
types, fatal or serious, did nothave a license at the time of
the crash.
Does that sound about right?
Cathy Brooks (16:28):
So looking just at the 2021 data that I looked up
this morning of the suspectedserious injury and fatalities,
there were 42 percnet that didnot have a Class M license just
for that year.
If you look over the long termfrom 2016 through 2023, there's
49 percent that were notlicensed, did not have a Class
(16:51):
M.
There's another 6 percent thatwe don't know what kind of
license type they have.
Allan Rutter (16:56):
One of the trends that you noted in your remarks
was that while motorcycleregistrations might be
declining, motorcycle fatalitiesin Texas have been increasing.
Other speakers at the forumnoted that this upward trend
included both fatalities andserious injuries.
Is this Texas trend somethingyou're seeing in other states
(17:17):
with high numbers ofmotorcyclists like California
and Florida?
Are fatalities for motorcycleson the rise recently?
Hong Zhang (17:25):
I didn't compare them for this time period.
Texas' number, the fatalitynumber rising was right after
COVID consistently for fouryears for the data that's
available.
For other states, depending onwhich state you're comparing to,
(17:45):
yes, some are going up, someare holding flat.
As far as I know, Californiaseemed like the same trend in
Texas.
It's going up.
Allan Rutter (17:56):
So what might some of the factors be that are
leading to growing numbers offatalities among motorcycle
riders?
Hong Zhang (18:05):
Ii don't have data to really talk about specific
ones but generally I think thetrending up has a lot to do with
the number of people in thesestates.
So if [in] Texas, the generalpopulation is on the rise
too, so the general road trafficcondition would be worse just
(18:30):
by common sense.
And the numbers that Cathycited, close to half of these
fatal accidents involve riderswithout a license.
I would assume that has a lotto do with these fatalities and
seriousness of crashes.
Allan Rutter (18:53):
So some of that's about exposure and some of
that's about training or lack ofit.
Hong Zhang (18:59):
Right.
I think Cathy's point earlieris very well taken here.
At Snell Foundation, we workwith different groups of people
and motorcyclists have thistendency of being the risk
takers because by common sense,people would know motorcyclists
(19:21):
are exposed to higher impactseverity, right?
But also this group, probablylike a lot of other people, just
from their own experience,assume motorcyclists especially
on short ride, neighborhood ridemight be safe compared with,
(19:42):
say, GP racing or even autoracing.
But the fact is, trafficcondition is a lot worse for
collision and serious impact formotorcyclists compared with
high- speed F1 or NASCAR racing.
because people are not thinkingabout the racing track actually
(20:08):
was designed to increasesafety.
There's bump protection rulesand skilled drivers and the
vehicles that's padded up inevery way to increase the level
of protection in case ofcollision.
Whereas motorcyclist was openfor so many risk factors that
(20:29):
are not involved in racing atall.
Allan Rutter (20:33):
So let's talk a little about something that
we've mentioned in passing,motorcycle helmet use.
And Hong, you were talkingabout the fact that the Snell
Foundation's job is to make surethat people have choices of the
most protective devicespossible.
But you also noted thatnationally over a period from
2014 through 2023, according tothe National Highway Traffic
(20:57):
Safety Administration,motorcycle crash fatalities
included about 49 percent with ahelmet and 46.5 percent without
one.
What is your data telling aboutmotorcycle crashes and helmet
use in Texas?
Hong Zhang (21:14):
There isn't a lot of information for Texas, per se,
except the data that Cathyalready shared, which is about a
third of the motorcyclistsinvolved in fatal collisions had
no helmet at all.
So that is slightly higher thanthe national data.
(21:37):
And also from the national dataon helmet use, actually from
2020 and 2021 and up, the surveyfrom NHTSA showed that there's
almost a 9 percent increase ofhelmet usage, nationwide
(21:57):
average.
Whereas in Texas, we don't seethat rate of increase among
helmet users.
Allan Rutter (22:06):
So let's talk a little bit about more of some of
the data that you shared at theforum that demonstrates the
effectiveness of motorcyclehelmet use.
That's certainly one of thethings to try to help people
understand in your work at theSnell Foundation.
How effective are helmets inmitigating the safety impacts
after a crash?
Hong Zhang (22:27):
In the data collected nationally by NHTSA,
motorcycle helmets are effectivein preventing 37 percent of
fatalities.
In other words, if nobody wereusing helmets at all, nationwide
fatalities related tomotorcycling is going to
(22:49):
increase by 37 percent.
And for preventing braininjury, the number is
effectiveness at 68 percent.
So by that number, this is verybeneficial; because you think
about the exposure,motorcyclists are-- like I
(23:12):
mentioned earlier-- theenvironment is very hostile for
motorcyclists.
And like Cathy just pointedout, [a] helmet is the number
one safety device that you canuse as a motorcyclist while you
are out there, no matter howslow you're going.
(23:32):
Even just standing still [you]hit your head on a concrete
floor could be fatal.
So imagine the travelingvelocity that a moving vehicle
is involving your whole bodyinto.
So going bareheaded is really,really risky for anybody, no
(23:54):
matter how skillful their ridinglevel is.
Allan Rutter (24:00):
Well, it's certainly one of the reasons why
when I'm even biking on mybicycle around our neighborhood
or on our trails or on our localstreets, I've always got a
helmet.
So you've talked a little bitabout how the Snell Foundation
has been engaged in helmetdesign or at least helmet
certification.
Tell us a little more about theorigins of the foundation and
(24:20):
what you do in setting helmetstandards and certifying helmets
that meet those standards.
Hong Zhang (24:26):
Snell Memorial Foundation was the name for the
Snell Foundation when it wasestablished to memorialize a
auto racer.
His name is Pete Snell.
He died in an auto racingaccident hosted by the Sports
Car Club of America in 1956.
(24:46):
So there was a lot of sadnessand memorial funds were raised.
And one of the board member forSports Car Club of America, Dr.
George Slively, started thisidea of setting up a nonprofit
organization with the solepurpose of research on how to
(25:10):
set higher performance standardfor crash helmet to protect the
racers better.
A year later, after Pete Snelldied, the foundation was set up
in San Francisco and theresearch was done in two years.
And for the first standard in1959, when the Snell standard
(25:36):
was published, only two helmetswere qualified and recommended
to racers.
Basically, Dr.
George Snively had a verypragmatic approach.
As a physician, he understoodwhat [the] human head needs in
crash scenarios.
Then when all the racing eventsonly allow Snell-certified
(26:01):
helmets to participate in theseevents, all the manufacturers of
the helmets at the time startto build better helmets, because
otherwise nobody would purchasetheir helmet.
So the foundation's goal isalways to point out to the
(26:22):
helmet industry where the bar isin terms of head- injury
prevention and helmet testingcriteria.
And the foundation onlyqualifies the most protective
headgear, and the reputationremains today.
People look for the snail nameinside a helmet or on the boxes,
(26:44):
and they use it as a way tochoose the most protective gear.
So the NASCAR racers all wearSnell- certified helmets, for
instance.
Allan Rutter (26:57):
So it sounds like that research has been leading
toward both in terms of theracing helmet and the motorcycle
helmet, trying to protect frombrain injury in those events of
vehicles in motion.
I think it can be contrastedwith helmet design for football
players.
That's more lower impact,repetitive head injuries.
(27:18):
These are higher speed, higherimpact.
And once you've been in anaccident, don't you usually
recommend somebody to go get anew helmet?
Hong Zhang (27:27):
Yes, definitely.
Snell standards are allapplying to vehicular activity
or high speed, one-time crashscenario.
it's not for sports activitiessuch as baseball, football; and
because the material used forthe crash helmets has the
(27:49):
capability of really managingvery high level of impact, the
downside is, once it's used toabsorb these high- level impact,
they are not useful anymore;they're only good for one blow.
And so that helmet is no longergoing to provide any adequate
(28:10):
level of protection.
So it should be replaced.
Allan Rutter (28:15):
Similarly, something else that our TTI
colleagues do a lot is testguardrails.
If somebody drives a vehicleinto a guardrail, it needs to be
replaced because it's done itsjob, but it's not going to be
able to do that job again.
Hong Zhang (28:28):
Exactly, because the structure inside the helmet
that takes the blow is a foamthat does not have memory.
Once it's collapsed in theprocess of this crash, it won't
bounce back to take anotherblow.
So we say here, use your helmetlike a tissue paper-- blow it
(28:49):
once and throw it away.
Allan Rutter (28:51):
It's something that's easy to remember.
Hong Zhang (28:53):
Right.
Allan Rutter (28:54):
Well, I can tell from our conversation today that
both of you have plenty ofpassion for motorcycle safety.
What are some of the reasonsthat motivate you to show up for
work every day?
Cathy, we'll start with you.
Cathy Brooks (29:06):
Motorcycling has had a huge impact in my life,
both in the positive and thenegative.
And anything that I can do tohelp other riders find the joy
of riding while considering therisks and choosing to reduce
their risks--get trained, getlicensed, wear good gear, a good
(29:29):
helmet, and make good choiceswhile riding- -it's worth
getting up and reaching out tothose folks.
Allan Rutter (29:35):
Hong, how about you?
Hong Zhang (29:37):
Well, my parents were both retired physicians.
So when I was going to college,their expectation was I'm going
to the medical school.
And so when I decided I didn'twant to be a doctor, this is
still in my head that my parentswanted me to be in a service of
(30:00):
saving people and doing workthat's worthwhile.
So I felt very, very rewardingwhen I work in this field for so
many years now, more than 30years.
And I can always proudly tellmy parents that I have saved
more lives than the two of themcombined.
Allan Rutter (30:22):
That's a great line.
I like that a lot.
Well, listen, I reallyappreciate the two of you
spending time with us today andhelping our listeners understand
more about motorcycle ridingand how to do so safely.
It's been a real pleasure.
I've learned a lot and I reallyappreciate it.
Thanks to both of you.
Hong Zhang (30:40):
Thank you for having me.
Anybody has questions, alwaysfeel free to call me or email me
at the Snell Foundation.
Speaker 01 (30:49):
Thank you, Allan.
It has been a pleasure.
I appreciate the invitation.
Allan Rutter (30:55):
Hong and Cathy identified two things motorcycle
riders can do to stay safe onTexas roads.
First, learn how to ride at amotorcycle safety course so that
you can get the Class M licenserequired by law.
Second, wear a certified helmetwhenever you ride to improve
your odds in surviving a crash.
In these ways, motorcycleriders can do their part in
(31:18):
driving like a Texan, the phraseour TxDOT partners use to
encourage us all to drive withkindness and courtesy to make
every mile a safe one.
Thanks for listening.
If you liked what you heard orlearned something, please take
just a minute to give us areview, subscribe, and share
this episode.
I invite you to join us nexttime for another conversation
(31:42):
about getting ourselves and thestuff we need from point A to
point B.
Thinking Transportation is aproduction of the Texas A&M
Transportation Institute, amember of The Texas A&M
University System.
The show is edited and producedby Chris Pourteau.
I'm your host, Allan Rutter.
Thanks again for joining us.
We'll see you next time.
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