May 6, 2025 • 54 mins
"All of life is a battle against fear. We fight it on one front and it sneaks around to our flank." These powerful words from SD Smith's Green Ember series perfectly capture the heart of our conversation with the beloved author whose rabbit-centric adventure stories have sold over a million copies and captivated families worldwide.
Sam Smith joins us to share how what began as bedtime stories for his four children transformed into a literary phenomenon that helps shape children into "children of light, piercing the darkness around them." With disarming humility, Sam reveals that despite his publishing success, he believes his greatest creative achievement will always be his family. "I'll never make anything that will have more of an impact in the world than the four human beings that Jane and I are raising," he reflects, challenging the notion that family obligations hinder creative work.
As we explore the landscape of children's literature, Sam articulates why modern stories often fall short – they place children at the universe's center rather than helping them find their place within something greater. Drawing from influences like C.S. Lewis and Tolkien, he explains how truly great stories offer moral clarity without sacrificing complexity, allowing young readers to witness both the consequences of bad choices and the beauty of repentance. "I want to introduce the romance, the adventure of goodness," Sam shares, revealing his mission to show children that truth isn't a cage but a key to freedom.
Perhaps most compelling is Sam's distinction between being an advocate versus an accuser – choosing to create and champion good things rather than merely criticizing what's wrong. This philosophy extends to his newest venture: a video game companion to his upcoming book "Helmer and the Dragon Tomb," designed without the predatory features that plague modern gaming. It's a bold move into new territory, but one that remains faithful to his mission of serving families through wholesome, imagination-kindling media.
Ready to discover stories that will shape your children's moral imagination? Visit sdsmith.com to explore the Green Ember series and support Sam's groundbreaking book and game project on Kickstarter today!
Links:
Green Ember Book
Connect with SD Smith:
Website: SDSmith
Hemler in the Dragon Tomb: Kickstarter Campaign
Let's connect!
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Email: podcast@thisdevotedlife.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James (00:01):
What started as a Saturday morning coffee date
turned into a podcast where wechat about things like faith,
family finances and so much more.
Shanda (00:09):
In a world that is encouraging you to live your
truth and to follow your heart.
We want to encourage you tolive devoted to the truth.
James (00:18):
The Bible has a lot to say about how to live a
victorious Christian life, andwe want to share practical
insight in how to apply thosetruths to your life, as we
endeavor to apply them to ourown lives as well.
Shanda (00:31):
If you enjoy this podcast, please leave us a
review and share these episodeswith your friends so that you
can help them live this devotedlife too.
Welcome to another episode ofthis Devoted Life podcast.
We are so excited because wehave Sam Smith on the podcast
today, though you may betterknow him as SD Smith, the writer
of the Green Ember series.
(00:52):
So what started as stories hetold his four children when they
were little turned into abeloved children's series that
inspired children and adultswith soul-shaping, memory-making
and darkness-shaking adventures.
With over a million copies sold, this series of stories are
packed with virtue andimagination that help shape
children into children of light,piercing the darkness around
(01:14):
them.
He is always working on hisnext adventure and we'll be
talking about a Kickstartercampaign that he has going right
now, which is his futureproject, but I'm sure he would
tell you one of his greatest andbest adventures has been
marrying his wife and raisinghis two boys and two girls.
So we want to say welcome toSam.
SD Smith (01:32):
Hi, well, hello.
I was so excited about thatjump in sales that we actually
just placed a 3 million copyorder.
So instead of the 10 minutes Ipromised.
Let's go ahead and do the full30.
Shanda (01:52):
I mean thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
Can you just kind of tell ourlisteners a little bit more
about yourself, maybe some ofyour hobbies, things you enjoy
and who you are?
SD Smith (02:02):
Sure, thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be with youguys.
My name is Sam and I'm marriedto Gina, and we have four kids.
We live in Southern WestVirginia, a rural part of West
Virginia, which is to say, apart of West Virginia, and we
love our community and we'reinvolved with our church and our
(02:24):
community in a strong way, andI'm a missionary kid.
So I moved from Huntington,west Virginia area, to Beckley,
west Virginia area, via SouthAfrica.
Shanda (02:35):
So that's kind of you know.
SD Smith (02:35):
I've got a sort of a usual room.
Shanda (02:37):
Yeah, how long were you in South Africa for?
SD Smith (02:41):
So kind of interesting .
I was there basically myteenage years.
I share this sometimes, but Iwas 12 when we left and I turned
13, my first birthday in SouthAfrica.
When I went there, nelsonMandela was in prison and I
turned 13 the day he wasreleased from prison in South
Africa, and then when we left,he was the president of the
country.
So just an interesting,fascinating time to be, there 89
(03:06):
.
And so I was there sort ofduring the nineties.
But yeah missionary kid and mydad's been in ministry and yeah,
my, I love what you were saying.
Just the family has been thebig adventure and I'd love to
talk about that some.
But I just keep thinking abouthow so many people
(03:26):
understandably view kids andfamily domestic obligations as
sort of an obstacle to and a lotof creative people are like oh,
if I didn't have to do thelaundry, then I could write the
great American novel or whatever.
Actually sympathize with that?
Shanda (03:41):
I know that there's a real struggle there for for um,
but that's been.
SD Smith (03:45):
That has not been the obstacle for me.
That's been the way.
James (03:48):
Yeah, the, the thing, that little ryan holiday.
SD Smith (03:52):
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah and I and I don't know if it was
he did he come up with?
I thought that was an olderkind of a thing.
James (03:59):
Yeah, it's, it's much, much older, but he did write a
book that's called the obstacleis the way, so I just thought
I'd throw that in there.
I'm not giving any credit.
SD Smith (04:06):
Do more credit Right, right yeah I honestly love what
you're saying.
James (04:10):
Yeah, it's very true.
SD Smith (04:12):
And so, yeah, that whole family and even apart from
sort of like, oh, that meantthat I was successful because
the story that I told led to it,that has happened, that has
happened that's part of thestory, but I actually think that
the things that we long for asartists, as human beings.
(04:32):
You know, we want sort of tohave a long-lasting impact, we
want to have connections, wewant what we, what we put our
energy into, to matter insignificant ways.
And like that's what you get athome, like that's what you get
pour into kids, into your family, like that.
And I don't, I don't, I'mpretty convinced, I'm not sure
I'll ever make anything likecreate anything, write anything
that will have a more of animpact in the world than the
four human beings that Jane andI are raising.
(04:52):
I just think that that's waymore potent.
I mean, that's going to.
They're going to multiply, lordwilling, and that'll be 200,
300 thousands of people soon,and so I'll have a chance to
impact the world, all the peoplethey touch, and I don't think
any of my books, even the onesthat sell you know a whole lot
or reach a big thing, I justdon't think any of them will
have that impact.
Shanda (05:11):
So I just yeah, you're right.
SD Smith (05:12):
I loved your intro because I was like that is
exactly, that's exactly my heart.
Shanda (05:28):
I think it's to the 10th generation is, and it talks
about how that multiplying outis.
Your family will becomethousands and millions of people
someday, and the seeds thatyou're planting for the kingdom
right now are just going tocontinue to multiply, and so
that really is.
I mean, it's obviously yourheart, and it's the heart of our
ministry too, is just to helpfamilies build those futures or
that heavenly kingdom you knowhelp families build those
futures, or that, that heavenlykingdom you know.
SD Smith (05:47):
Yeah, I believe that once I once gave a talk and the
sort of the refrain and it wasthe kingdom of god is our aim
and heart no the kingdom of godis our family's heart, the end
and aim of all our art I wastrying to think of something
that was like meaningful, thatwe would catch in someone's mind
.
It was sort of like it was acreative conference.
So I was trying to sort of saythat message of like it's not.
they're not the obstacle,they're not, they're not in the
(06:07):
way they're here, this is thisis your calling this is and it's
all the things you long for asan artist.
To you know, to there's so muchof that there and I know it's
mundane and part of thechallenge is it's not fame.
Shanda (06:21):
So it doesn't get you.
SD Smith (06:22):
You know when you wipe the 5,000th diaper or you know,
I guess, and wipe the bottomand, you know, clean the room,
whatever.
And it's so modest, it's sounseen, but that is.
There's so much depth and rich.
And, honestly, even if you'rethinking about being a creative
sort of a creative calling, likethere is no, I don't know.
(06:43):
There's no way to get to whereyou can share meaningful, good,
generous work without suffering.
I think if someone offers youthe long cut or the shortcut,
you take, take the long cut.
The long cut is where youbecome the kind of person that
can, that can serve people in adifferent way.
So, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'mfor the family.
(07:05):
I'm just coming out.
I'm coming out now making abold statement.
I think the families are great.
Shanda (07:09):
No, I love that Absolutely.
I remember years ago a friend ofmine and you being a missionary
kid.
She told me that she alwaysfelt like God was calling her to
the mission field and sheactually felt like once she got
pregnant and had a baby that shewasn't able to fulfill that
calling.
And I remember looking at herand saying, well, you're
fulfilling it right now, withinyour home, because God has given
(07:31):
you your mission fieldliterally within your home,
right now, and I didn't realizehow much of an impact that made
on her until years later she waslike you have no idea how much
that changed the mindset that Ihad going into the day-to-day of
just this is what God hascalled me to right now, in this
season.
SD Smith (07:47):
And so I love that.
She had 37 children and startedin church and it was like, wow,
we've got.
No, I love it.
That's a great way to build thekingdom.
It's just I have more babies,yeah.
James (08:01):
Honestly, you can promote the things in your household,
you know, in your children.
You can promote them andobviously they're their own
individuals.
They're going to be the peoplethey're going to be and, you
know, while it's definitelythrough the gospel, it is also
through the home and it'shonestly the main reason why we
(08:35):
even do this podcast.
So that's kind of the heart ofher ministry.
SD Smith (08:41):
That's powerful.
Yeah, moms are.
I mean.
I love the, the kind of womenI'm sure that are listening to
this is they're like my wife,you know they're serious women
who care and love the lord andand have challenges like
everybody else, maybe too overanxious or fearful about this or
worried about that, but they'retrying, they're trying, they're
like they're, they're, they'regoing for it and I love that.
(09:04):
That.
It's beautiful yeah.
Shanda (09:05):
Yeah, I know that you have said you know that your
family is like your lastinglegacy but obviously, like your
books are going to leave animpact on other people, who are
some authors that you would saymade an impact on you as a kid.
That has kind of shaped youinto the person that you become.
SD Smith (09:22):
For sure, I mean massive, I that you become for
sure.
I mean massive.
I mean reading is is magic, Imean it's, it's this miraculous
thing that you can.
I have been discipled by cslewis and you know that's just
isn't.
That's so cool.
I mean that's a technology.
Again, thinking about sort oflike you know, playing with uh
in a technological world, whichmaybe we'll get on to, but like
(09:43):
even yeah you know, even yourson dawson doing like rc cars.
That's like playing with thetechnology, but there's
something really cool about it.
It's like very connected tothis and and the technology of
the printing press.
The technology of books hasbeen so, you know, and there
were people I was just readingthomas jefferson the other day
who's writing about warningpeople about novels.
Just like the novels sohorrible, and you can kind of
(10:05):
find that about a lot of things.
You know, when the bicycle cameout, just people absolutely
flipped out, horrible, and maybethey were right, I don't know.
Bicycle is really scary, butit's just the technology that I
have the opportunity to read,that I can read CS Lewis, I can
read George McDonnell.
I can read George McDonnell, Ican read GK Chesterton, I can
read Jane Austen, and thesepeople all have had a massive
(10:27):
influence on me and there's somemore spiritually, but actually
I would say that there's neverbeen a book that has impacted me
more profoundly in a spiritualway than.
The Lord of the Rings and I wasnot a big reader as a kid.
I became a little bit ladeninto it.
So I was in my teens before Iwas reading a lot.
But that book is so profoundlygood and actually you think
(10:49):
about Lewis's experience himselfthat he found a book by he
didn't even know it about.
It was called Fantasties and heread this book.
He was a devout atheist beingdiscipled by an extremely devout
atheist Right yeah.
The great knock Kirkpatrick andhe was, so he had no time for it
and it was.
It was something he wasrejecting actively.
(11:09):
But he read this book,fantasties, and he said that it
had like the, the stench, thearoma of holiness, and he
encountered that through fiction.
And I would just say that thatexperience, I mean, and that's
had unbelievably compounding,profound impact of goodness,
goodness, when you think aboutwhat he went on to create.
So this lineage going back soprofound and so beautiful.
(11:31):
And Tolkien, just I mean theLord of the Rings.
I love the Bible.
I read the Bible more thananything.
As a teenager read constantly,and what happened when I read
the Lord of the Rings is thatthat helped me to love what the
Bible put forth as beautiful.
I saw it.
(11:51):
It was like I could see it.
Shanda (11:52):
And it was not an allegory.
SD Smith (11:53):
It's not heavy handed, it's not sort of like.
This means this it wasn't liketrying to dominate me, it was an
invitation.
It was beautiful, good story.
It was such profound and hasbeen no-transcript so Tolkien,
(12:29):
lewis for sure, which is like acliche answer, but I don't care
because it's so good.
James (12:33):
No, I mean, it's the truth, yeah.
SD Smith (12:35):
Brilliant and Chesterton as well, and I do
love Jane Austen a whole lot andI would say Louisa Malkot and
Alan Patton and PG Woodhouse, asfar as just like enjoyment for
reading that kind of thing.
That's probably a little bit ofthe humor sort of side, but
yeah, I could go on and on.
Shanda (12:54):
Well, I laughed when I saw that I think in a bio that
you had online that you hadLittle Women written down as one
of the books that you loved asa child and I did not read it
until last year it was the firsttime I read it.
And then we happened to be at awork conference and I realized
that the Louisa May Alcott housewas like 10 minutes away and I
said we need to go and see.
So we were able to go and justwalk in her footsteps, like
(13:16):
where she was writing, and justthe fact that she used both her
right and left hand to write sothat she didn't have to stop
writing, she could just swaphands when a hand got tired, and
I was like that is so neat toactually see what inspired her
and where she was sitting whenshe started to write that.
James (13:31):
And you could see the little girl come out and hurt so
much.
I mean, she was just like yes,it was amazing.
SD Smith (13:38):
I want to go to that.
I would love to go.
So that was an important onefor me, because that's the first
time I thought about being anauthor.
I wasn't reading at the time,but I had a teacher who read
that book to us in first gradeand my mother read the Chronicle
of Narnia.
This teacher, miss Geiner, sheread Little Women and I remember
hearing about Jo being a writerand I remember thinking like,
(13:59):
oh, you can sort of like, oh,you can do that, like that's
really cool.
And and then then hearing fromher that that was sort of that.
She was sort of a stand-in forlouisa herself and I just I was
just inspired and I thought, forsome reason, I thought you know
, authors were really far away,they were in england or there
was something, and this was likeoh this is a person with.
There's a big family like yeah,yeah, she's an american and
(14:21):
she's close and they're notwealthy and I just kind of
thought, well, that's like myfamily.
So it just got in my head like,oh, that's a really cool
vocation.
Maybe that's super cool.
Shanda (14:30):
Well, and I love that when a book is well written it's
timeless.
So as a kid I mean, I watchedthe movie and I definitely
related with Joe when I waslittle, but reading it this time
around I was like I wasrelating to Marmee now, and I
just was like this is.
I want to have my motherhoodreflect this a little bit, and
there were little bits andpieces of it that I was able to
(14:52):
take and I just was like this issuch a good, deep, rich,
beautiful writing, and I mean itcan inspire all areas of your
life 100% and I'd love to be.
SD Smith (15:02):
I wouldn't mind being like the dad in the book, but
less excited about being likethe real dad the book was being
I'd want to do a little betterjob.
I'm here.
That's a whole other subjectthere.
James (15:18):
We all need to touch that one not to get too far into the
weeds on what you just said,but, as you were saying, you
relating to different charactersyou know, at different points
in your life.
I mean, it's so symbolic to life.
You know, I think whether we'regoing to church literally
anything that we're doing in theseason of life, we can get
(15:38):
different things out of it.
I mean, look at the living wordof God.
You know in the Bible and as achild, hearing all of the, you
know the biblical stories andthings like that and how they
talk to you.
But then you know as an adult,there's so much deeper meaning
there and I, just when you saidit, for some reason my mind
started thinking of all thedifferent aspects in lenses in
(15:59):
life that we use and wesometimes we just we need it at
that moment and it can be soimpactful.
Shanda (16:07):
So that's my little blurb.
We're Charlotte Masonhomeschoolers so we talk about a
lot about like living books andI mean what we're talking about
right now is that, I mean,obviously, the Bible is the
ultimate living book, but thereare ideas that reflect the truth
that God has given us in hisword, through story, and it
really is very impactful.
SD Smith (16:27):
I totally resonate with that.
I was talking to somebodyyesterday about like it's funny
how people give new Christiansthe book of John or someone that
they're thinking about Like andI think that's cool.
It's like it's a.
It's amazing, though that'ssuch a deeply profound, it's so
philosophical, it's so poetic,it's so philosophical, it's so
poetic, it's so beautiful.
It's like oh, that's the thingyou're introducing.
It's really wild, but it'sgreat too because you encounter.
(16:50):
Jesus in it and you can justencounter Jesus with whatever
baggage, whatever history youhave, and it's so compelling you
either want to reject him orworship him, but it is different
.
It's funny that 50 years lateror 20 years later, you might
read the same thing, havingspent time in the Pentateuch.
Shanda (17:05):
And then you're reading John, it's a completely
different.
SD Smith (17:08):
You're just oh my goodness, this is Genesis.
Again and again it's justGenesis again and I love that
and I think that's part of sortof a person who reads Genesis or
all the Pentateuch and readsEcclesiastes, the wisdom
literature, and reads John.
There's I mean, there's some,there's depth there.
James (17:30):
Oh, my goodness yeah.
SD Smith (17:31):
Profound.
Profound.
Same thing, same word, but theprofundity of that is so
powerful and it's so literary,it's so beautiful and literary,
and so much for scripture is.
There's so much music and songs.
I love the phrase that historydoesn't repeat itself, but it
rhymes, and you just see therhyming all through the gospel,
just everywhere.
But it's in life too.
(17:52):
It's just that there is such aprofound.
I mean, lewis said that theintellect is the organ of truth
and that the imagination is theorgan of meaning, and I'm such
an advocate for Christiansrecapturing a capacity for
imagination.
I think we're reallyimpoverished when we strictly
look at information and thinkthat that's going to be, if I
(18:14):
have the correct information.
Why is the scripture so full ofstories?
Why are even the commands inscripture so rooted in narrative
, so rooted in a story?
I am the god who brought youout of egypt.
That's the context for the tencommandments.
Uh, you know, I am the, the.
The christ is died, buried,raised, seen.
(18:34):
That's the context for all thecommands of the new testament so
it's not so much about like, ifyou, if we just say like this,
or, but take this information inascent to this information
mentally download this yeah,yeah, yeah.
We're not brains on a stick,we're embodied human beings, and
so what we do with our bodiesmatters and our imagination is
such a profound capacity.
That's part of my mission is Ijust want to enliven, I want to
(19:00):
enrich the imagination offamilies and kids and I want it
to be rooted in that capital Rreality.
That is the truth.
The way I don't want to lie tochildren about the way God made
the world.
I feel like it's a bigstewardship, but just the
imagination is so profound andso powerful and I think you just
see it in scripture.
I just, I'm sorry, just James,when you just got me going, you
(19:21):
think about alive.
It's just so, and it's not thatthe information changes or
something in it.
But it's truth, but it is so,it's just.
It hits you.
It can hit you as a scholar, itcan hit you as a poet, it can
hit you as a child, maybe mostyou know best as a child
according to the Lord you know,and so it's just yeah, it's
(19:43):
awesome.
Shanda (19:46):
Yeah, it really is.
So what are your take, or whatis your take on modern
children's literature then?
Because I mean, there's a lotof books that have been put out
in modern times and sometimes Ikind of question, because it
feels like the heroes of thestory are no longer heroes and
the villains are no longervillains.
And it's what is your take onthe modern children's literature
(20:08):
that's coming out?
And I don't equate your booksto that.
James (20:12):
Yeah, no, I mean, that's literally kind of what you're
saying that in his books thevillain is the villain, and yeah
, yeah.
Shanda (20:20):
So what's your take on that?
SD Smith (20:21):
I think that a lot of modern books are timely, they
are rooted in a time and theyare very much like about a topic
or something and honestly,unfortunately, I think you get
this sort of from.
Well, I think there's a lot ofbeen a reaction to all.
(20:46):
These people are telling allthese lies and um, pushing an
agenda.
So you know how we'll counterthat.
We'll do children's books thatpush the opposite agenda and
we'll sort of like the kids kindof get lost in this as far as
like what's what is good for achild and I do think there are
some differences between a lotof the timeless classics, and
it's a little bit of a bias,because the books that survive
(21:07):
you know an Anne of Green Gablesand Ivanhoe, a tale of two
cities or whatever you know thecount of Monte Cristo the reason
we have them is because theywere the, they were the best you
know.
And so there's been thisfiltering over time, which is a,
which is a good safety or notsafety, but like a good device.
Lewis talked about that, aboutreading three old books for
(21:28):
everyone.
You read from this century, readfrom the old, let the fresh
breeze of the centuries blowthrough your imagination, and I
think that's really good wisdom.
But I think part of the reasonfor that is because you don't
know, I mean in our own culture.
I think some of the challengesabout it is a lot of the
children's literature is thissort of whole universe spiraling
into me as an.
I am the center, and so what Ijust say about myself, how I
(21:52):
define myself, it's like it'sthis very centered, and I think
the best literature makes achild feel small in a good way,
as in I'm a part of something.
I'm small in this big universeand that's like a really sweet
thing and actually it's a coolcause for peril.
You know why you see, mostchildren's books end up with
like the parents getdisconnected at some point and
(22:13):
that's.
I don't think that's alwayslike a well, we're trying to
divide it.
Sometimes it's just like that'sthat makes you scared it makes
for action and peril.
I see it in Narnia and youcertainly see it in Lord of the
Rings.
The hobbits are basicallychildren.
So the best books I think aretimeless and they have timeless
(22:36):
values and they have a sort of ahumility in regards to the
universe and to God and the sortof meaning behind you know kind
of goes out.
It's not, it doesn't gospiraling in.
It locates a person in thismore humble way and I think
that's why so much of oldliterature is more refreshing.
I think it's more rooted inreality.
Often, and honestly, a lot ofit is rooted in a Christian
(22:59):
worldview and in a reallyprofound way.
Even the Dickens I do like, andI've totally resonated with what
you're saying.
A lot of modern stories arelike the villains just
misunderstood or they justneeded a hug or that kind of
thing, and I think that ispretty tedious and like
overplayed.
I do.
I do think that you know, ifyou believe the gospel, then
it's there is like a, there's away back, and it's like that,
(23:21):
there is a.
In my own stories I like that.
There's, there's clarity, as insort of there there are types
of animals or whatever that arejust evil and that's, that's
really simple, and they can be.
There's just to be fought andopposed, yeah and but.
But the rabbits aren't just goodand so they are morally complex
, so they can go along with theway of death or the way of life.
(23:44):
So they they with the way ofdeath or the way of life, so
they're stand-ins for us.
They're people really.
So I like moral complexity asin that is the reality of the
world.
We can every day differentmoments and the idea that we're
going to like oh, I see virtueand now I shall be virtuous.
It's not as simple as that.
We struggle with sin and wefail, and what we need is models
of repentance and models ofpeople choosing in suffering for
(24:07):
maybe the way following the wayof life.
And so I think in my books Iwant there to be moral
complexity.
I want a bad character to beable to turn back.
I want them to sometimes tojust go on, choose the bad way
and maybe they talk for a while,because I mean, read the Bible.
It's like it happens for a longtime and it's frustrating to
(24:28):
some psalmists.
And so I want there to be moralcomplexity.
So I respect that, but I don'tlike the reduction of all
stories to misunderstandings.
I think that is a big problemwith a lot of literature.
Shanda (24:45):
So I sympathize with your concerns there.
SD Smith (24:46):
For sure I like the moral clarity of the moral
universe of a lot of literature,so I sympathize with your
concerns there.
For sure I like the moralclarity of the moral universe of
a lot of classic literature.
Shanda (24:52):
I had once heard Andrew Pudewa was speaking and he
talked about just how inchildren's literature, when they
can see evil and they can seegood, it helps them to learn to
differentiate between it.
It's kind of like gainingwisdom and being able to
identify what is right and whatis wrong, and obviously the
characters are morally complex,but they're able to see what is
(25:13):
right through these stories andare then able to, hopefully,
when they're applying it totheir own life and they come to
a situation that may be similaror something happens and they're
like okay, I can choose one ofthese paths, because I've seen
this in stories and I want tochoose to do what is right.
SD Smith (25:28):
That's like the romance of goodness.
I think that's a big thing.
That's missing, too, from a lotof literature.
Simone Weil has this wonderfulquotation, which I can never get
exactly right, but basicallysays that imaginary evil is like
fun and glorious and excitingand everything, and imaginary
good is boring and but real evilis so bad so hard, absolutely
(25:51):
depressing, and it's just andreal good is life-giving and new
and precious and so it's thepart of what I feel like my
mission is.
I want to sort of introduce thesort of the romance, the
adventure of, of goodness, ofbeauty, truth, of reality, and
and like say no, no, the, whenthe people that say that the,
(26:12):
the, what god says is a lie, orthat it's a, that it's a shackle
, that it's a chains orsomething, no, it's, it's a key,
it's not, it's not a cage, andthat's a part of my heart is
like to sort of that to be andand I don't do that, and like
I'm going to teach, going toteach the kids.
I won't know Telling the truthis right and telling lies.
So if I write a story wheresomeone tells a lie and then
they get in trouble and badthings, I don't want to reduce,
(26:34):
I want to tell real, you know,adventurous stories, not just
moralistic tracks.
You know, I want, I want tohave adventure, I want to
respect the craft of, but I wantto respect the craft of, but I
want to tell the truth the wholetime.
I don't I never, want to lie.
I must not tell lies and and and.
So, yeah, if you walk away, Ihope my prayer is.
And when the Lord's answeredthis prayer by the testimony of
(26:54):
many, many people, and I justgive him glory, for that is that
people walk away.
Kids walk away from readingGreen Ember, from that world,
and they are changed in goodways, yeah, and they have an
encounter with reality with acapital R and it may not.
There's not, you know, someonedoesn't get saved and someone
doesn't start.
Oh, now I'll go to church.
I'll read my Bible that doesn'tgenerally work.
(27:15):
But they will be changed andthey'll have an encounter with
truth, with beauty and goodness.
I pray, and God's answered thatprayer and I give.
Him.
Glory for that.
Shanda (27:27):
Yeah, I know that before starting this podcast you had
mentioned that you've kind ofbeen wrestling with this topic
of advocate versus accuser and Iwant to let you kind of talk on
that.
But there was a quote in one ofyour books that I wanted to read
that I think kind of ties intowhat we've been talking about in
that topic.
I'm going to read it for asecond.
It says all of life is a battleagainst fear.
(27:48):
We fight it on one front and itsneaks around to our flank.
He paused, looked kindly at heryes, father, I understand.
And he said I regret manythings I have done, but most of
all I regret those moments whenI said to fear you are my master
.
And I just was like that is sogood, because so often kids deal
with these fears and they don'tknow how to conquer them.
(28:11):
And as I was listening to youtalk, I thought you are being an
advocate for children throughyour writing and helping point
them towards Christ.
And so I would love to hearjust kind of your thoughts on
this being an advocate versusbeing an accuser, because
obviously our advocate is Christand the accuser is the devil,
and so often, like we know,we're talking about this tugging
(28:33):
war between good and evil, andwe have this accuser who is
always whispering lies into ourear, and God has not given us a
spirit of fear, but of power andof love and of a sound mind.
Not given us a spirit of fear,but of power and of love and of
a sound mind.
And so we need to learn to bediscerning between what voice
are we listening to?
Is it our advocate or is it ouraccuser?
(28:54):
And what role are we, asparents, playing into our
children's life?
SD Smith (29:00):
Yeah Well, and I'll just say that you quoted from
the Green ember that part is.
That's not because I'm so smartI want to teach people this.
It's because that's my problem.
Like that's me.
I have said that I've said yesto fear and I've given in.
That's part of the internalstruggle of one of the main
(29:21):
characters.
Heather, which I really relateto, is someone who's anxious,
someone who struggles with that,and so that's a real.
That's not something that'slike, oh, that's used to be back
before.
Shanda (29:32):
I was a super Christian.
I'm growing, I'm growing ingrace.
SD Smith (29:34):
God's giving me a lot of blessings, a lot of victory,
but it's something I strugglewith and so to say I want to and
yeah.
So that's really a core idea ofthe of the green ember series.
Is this sort of like bravery?
And it's not so much, andthat's not as, as everybody
knows, it's not the absence offear, it's, it's actually
(29:57):
required for the presence offear is required.
That's, it's so.
It's not so much.
If you do all the right things,you will not be afraid, or it's
when I'm, I will trust in you,and it's, it's, it's so.
It's not the sort of theabsence of challenges or the
absence of temptation or eventhe absence of weakness.
It's not the absence of will Iever ever get sick and die?
(30:19):
You will, like, you will die,you will weaken and die, unless
it happens really quick.
Like so there's this, this.
I don't like the sort of theprosperity heresy of like
everything, if you just do theright things, everything will
work out.
I want to deal with the realityof suffering and so much of the
scriptures about suffering andand how to equip that.
And I think that the books havereally resonated with people
(30:40):
who have, you know, goingthrough childhood cancer or loss
or this kind of thing, becausethey deal with suffering in an
honest way and, I hope, abiblical way.
And, yeah, I think the advocatething.
I just think that so manypeople who care a lot about the
truth have a disposition ofbeing a critic, which can be
(31:02):
very closely related to being anaccuser.
And so the the view I thinkabout christ, uh, healing the
man with the withered hand.
And you know he's.
He, there's a man with awithered hand, it's the sabbath,
and in front of the synagogueand he and, and he's looking in
the pharisees.
What are they doing?
They are looking at him to seehow they can accuse him.
That's, that's.
(31:22):
That's a big deal doing.
Diabolus, the devil, that isthe, what his name is, it is the
accuser, one who throws stones.
That's his thing.
So these religious leaders aresitting around watching him.
And what are they watching him?
To see if he will heal a guywith a withered hand In an
agrarian culture.
This is a man who is, you know,it's not like he can get a tech
job or something like this.
(31:43):
This is how you work.
You tech job or something likethis is this is how you work,
you know.
So you're talking about thelivelihood, you're talking about
the life of this man, hisfamily, whatever you know.
And there's their focus is letme see if he does, let me see if
he breaks this rule.
And so they're, they'reimmediate.
That's their intention.
So, and and and Jesus appealsto them.
You know, is it right on theSabbath to do good or to do bad.
Is it do good or to do bad?
(32:08):
Like is it?
Is it better to do death orlife?
On this app, he's kind of like,and they, and their answer is
not, oh, their answer is silence, because all they're doing is
watching him.
Yeah, and I just think, like,if that and he heals the man,
it's beautiful, it's a wonderfulstory.
I love it so much.
Stretch out your hand and hestretches out this hand and it's
just and it's hit a hole againand they walk, walk away the
religious leaders.
They walk away and plan to killhim.
(32:29):
That is like they walk away andplan to kill him.
Shanda (32:32):
That's their disposition .
SD Smith (32:33):
So I just think if and I'm not trying to apply that to
everything in life, but I thinkif my disposition is basically
like I'm looking for troubleeverywhere, I'm looking for
problems, are you doing that alittle bit wrong?
And I think that is natural tome.
I think it's natural to a lotof people who are thoughtful or
like I've had to wrestle with,like is this sinful?
Is this not, and I'm trying tothink through the worldview and
I'm trying to not just leteverything come to me.
(32:55):
So then I think theovercorrection on that side from
discernment is this dispositionof criticism, this disposition
of accusation, and I think of itas it's really important to
have a.
I mean, andy Crouch has thisthing about relationships to
culture and he talks aboutpostures and gestures, and some
things might be a good postureand not, or a good gesture, not
(33:18):
a good posture, and that's how Ithink about criticism.
Like I think, if obviously Pauldoes it, he says you know, I
wish that you'd be accursed andcut off, which is a really
awesome double entendre with thegroup he's talking to about the
circumcision.
He's very heavily hitting themwith some very tough language,
and so does Jesus, the brood ofvipers and this kind of stuff.
(33:38):
So that is true, you need to befirm in the truth at times, for
sure, but if that's all my lifeis about, then that's I.
That's so it's a good gestureand I think it's a crummy
posture to just be a critic allthe time and what I, the posture
I want to have is.
I want to be a creator or acurator.
I want to share, I want to give, I want to make things.
(33:59):
I want to get in the arena andfight and try to do something
about.
You know, cause it's so simple,just to say I mean, we've
gotten some feedback honestlyabout the video game and it's
you know, we're doing a videogame and we're doing a book
together and it's a differentkind of video game.
It's radically hospitable tokids.
(34:20):
It doesn't have this sort ofendless addiction cycle to have
ads to, you know, to level up.
It doesn't have like chatfeatures you know to to to level
up.
It doesn't have like chatfeatures.
We made it with so muchintention, going against the way
you make money to, to try tomake something really hospitable
to kids.
So we're like fighting in thisspace and I understand people
say, oh, we don't do video games.
I understand that.
I respect that.
We don't do it that much in ourhome either.
There are lots of kids who thatcould be the only gateway for
(34:42):
them.
Shanda (34:43):
We've had some feedback about.
SD Smith (34:44):
well, you know, sort of like poking, like why would
you do this?
We're trying, you're gettingour kids and and and I just like
think, like we're trying tomake something.
Shanda (34:56):
We're we're trying to do something.
We're in.
We're in the fight.
SD Smith (34:57):
So I just like there's .
It's easy to sit on thesidelines and say, oh, you
should have thrown the ball, youshould have you should have you
know you should have taken thatstrike instead of trying to
swing, like you know, whileyou're eating your popcorn.
And you know it just like getin the game, or you know it's
hard.
It's hard in the game andyou're going to make mistakes.
And if, if, if.
Everybody's disposition is justalways like well, where were
the discernment people?
(35:18):
Where are the truth checkers?
We'll make sure everything'sright and tidy, like it's not
always going to be perfect.
You know, even the Lord waslike they're not against us,
they're for us, and like peopleare weird doing stuff.
Or even Paul said I'm rejoicingthat they're preaching, even
though it's like they're doingit for selfish gain, like
there's a little bit of a, andsometimes he's like you know
send them to hell or I get that.
I get there's a line, but anyway, that's that's sort of my think
(35:41):
, of my thought about like, Iwant to be someone who's
curating good things that's whatyou guys are doing so well and
I want to be someone who'screating good things, and so
that's my heart, and I'm notsaying that as, like you, stupid
people or critics.
That's my natural.
I need to fight that myself.
Shanda (36:03):
I fully understand what you are saying, because often,
as a parent, I think about that.
Am I just being nitpicky withmy children and just pointing
out every little thing?
Or am I truly being an advocatefor them and pointing them
towards Christ?
Because so often, like you said, I can be the one who's kind of
nitpicking and it comes from aheart of genuinely wanting them
to do right.
But is it truly helpful forthem to constantly feel this
(36:27):
pecking and just this?
James (36:28):
Yeah, are you smothering them?
Is it suffocating and all thesethings, yeah, so I appreciate
you sharing all of that.
Yeah, and I don't take anythingthat you just said as judgy or
you know.
Ah, you know boo, you know it's.
You are actually being anadvocate for those people and
for their children and it's justsuch a great reminder because
(36:51):
we absolutely I mean that wholeEverything you just said speaks
so much to me because I can bean intense person and I'm cut
out of a very driven cloth andI'm not using that as an excuse,
it's just an each at bat andyou know, does you know you
(37:22):
shouldn't have said that orwhatever.
And it's like you know, justlike I said, I know that can be
suffocating and we truly are ourchildren's advocates and need
to be and, like I said, it'sjust a great reminder and I know
that.
You know Jesus is ourintercessor, so we can always
use our Heavenly Father andJesus Christ as an example, the
(37:47):
perfect example of really how weshould be as spouses as well.
I mean it's not just aparenting thing.
I need to be your advocate andwe all need to work together.
I mean, obviously sharpens ironand you know we can improve and
it's not like you said earlier,it's not that we don't try to
(38:08):
improve and that we don't becritical at times, in the right
way and at the right times.
But if you're only that to yourchildren and to your spouse and
to those around you, you get onthe crazy cycle pretty fast
rather than be on the energizingcycle, it's just.
Shanda (38:25):
I mean.
Proverbs talks a lot about nothaving a critical spirit and
that's essentially what you'rebecoming when you're just
constantly nitpicking and it'sget that log out of your own eye
before you look at the speck inyour brothers.
SD Smith (38:39):
Well, you have these, all these gifts.
You know, james, I just thinkabout you, your capacity to sort
of both of you guys to strivefor excellence.
So that means you're going tohave high standards and that
high standards are a gift, andso I feel the same way.
Like you know, I'm going thehouse and I don't notice the 10
or 15 great things it's like oh,my son didn't take out.
Take out the trash and the shoesare right here and so it's.
(39:00):
It is so natural and so easyand I and I'm the same way, it's
just, and so I don't think itand I think it's.
It is the flip side of thosestrengths, you know we have
these.
You might have a gentle,empathetic spirit that is very
kind and thoughtful and maybeartistic and that kind of thing.
On the flip side of that, youmight struggle with anxiety or
navel gazing, that kind of thing.
(39:21):
If you're a driven, strong,excellent sort of get-after and
type A kind of thing, thenyou're going to have the
weaknesses on that side of itand it's just like bearing with
each other and that God calls usthat we have these.
That's why I love the church.
I love the church.
There's so many.
This, the church that there'sso many.
This is why my message to somany artists I hate that the
artists feel alienated from thechurch and the church feels
(39:42):
alienated from the arts.
I just hate that so muchbecause I think we need each
other so much, like the churchneeds those absolutely weird,
creative, gifted kind of peoplein that way and those people
desperately need the reality ofthe church.
They need christianity they needjesus they need the scriptures,
and so we, you know, I'll say Ineed it, and the church needs
me and needs to hear me.
So it's just like we need eachother, with those different
(40:05):
strengths and weaknesses.
James (40:06):
It's the body, the body of Christ.
Yes, I was literally thinkingthe body of Christ, as you were
talking.
Shanda (40:12):
Like are we an arm or are we a leg?
James (40:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Shanda (40:16):
No.
I love that.
I mean, you mentioned yourKickstarter, so we're going to
give you a little bit of time tomaybe kind of put a plug in for
that, because I know you'recoming out with a Helmer book
and I was telling a friend aboutit last night and she you're
going to probably laugh at thisshe said they're getting new
chickens here soon and their sonwants to name one of their hens
Helmer.
She's like you can't name agirl Helmer and he is like
(40:39):
adamant that he is naming thishen Helmer because that is his
favorite character.
So I know that everyone is veryexcited about this upcoming
book.
So if you could tell us just alittle bit more, what is it?
It's Helmer in the Dragon Tomb.
Is that what the title of thisbook is?
SD Smith (40:53):
Yeah, yes, that's the new book and Helmer, he's a
beloved character.
He's sort of the old mentor,the old crusty mentor to our
young hero in the green Emberand he becomes a really
important character as theseries goes on and a really
beloved character and it's kindof the softening of his heart.
He's kind of a replacement dadin a sense.
(41:14):
He's like you know, god is afather to the fatherless and
he's a little bit.
There's a little bit, there's alittle bit of that going on.
I think that happens in a lotof great stories.
Yeah, there's a lot of greatstories are about fatherhood and
and and I don't know.
I think that's really deep in inin the core sort of of the
universe for some reason can'tfigure out, why Just do some
(41:41):
research on that.
But so so he's that kind of acharacter and he he's a really
beloved character and heembodies a lot of like heroic
sacrifice and that kind of thing, but people don't want to let
him go and he's uh, so this ishis origin story.
So this is going back to when hewas sort of the young uh person
being mentored.
He's a farmer and he mustbecome a fighter because of what
happens, and that's what thisstory is about.
It's what the book is about andit's what the the game is as
well, and so, yeah, I'm super.
(42:02):
People love helmer and he's themost popular character probably
, and I've had heard so manypets named after helmer.
We've had, there's lots ofcharacter, green ember,
characters named for, you know,lots of chickens, lots of dogs
lots of uh any children, anychildren.
James (42:17):
Yeah, yeah, not not helmer not helmer, but but I
know of two children that havebeen named after characters in
the book Super cool, that's socool.
Shanda (42:27):
Yeah, I will definitely put like a link in the show
notes for your Kickstarter.
So if people are interested ingoing and checking that out and
supporting this new venture withthe video game.
I know I was looking at thevideo game and it looks like it
is so well done and I wasshowing it to our son and he's
really excited about it and Ijust love that it's ad free and
that you're not trying to, youknow, get money out of kids to
(42:50):
like level up and all of that.
And I just thought this is justgood, wholesome video gaming.
Because I loved games as a kid,like I played video games, um,
but video games nowadays are notlike what they used to be and I
just felt like that was justgood, wholesome fun play as a
kid.
But anymore, like some of thegames I see, and I'm like it's
just, it's all about the money,you know, um, so I basically
(43:11):
slot machines now yeah theyreally do I mean it's, it's big
companies that have spent, andthey spend sure that's what
we're
SD Smith (43:18):
against.
That's what's a little bitfrustrating to hear.
Some of the criticism is likewhy are you doing?
Like, do you understand thesort of the stakes culturally?
Like this is a, this is acultural artifact, that.
That I mean in many ways Zach,or illustrator, who works with
us.
He's an incredible guy but hewas saying, like the way opera
sort of brings up, you know youhave to have a story and
narrative, you have music, youhave set design, costume you
(43:40):
have a bunch.
You have this orchestra here.
You have, like it's, a bunch ofdifferent disciplines together.
I mean video games are a littlebit.
I mean they're like thatthere's narrative, there's music
there's incredible art there's,there's this, there's sort of
this collision of different sortof artistic fields that God has
given us, and you enter intothe narrative in this really
interesting way.
So yeah, it's the way that theymake the games now and they
(44:04):
spend billions of dollarsliterally like to market these
games because they know they arelike slot machines.
So we have to, we're trying tosort of compete, but we can't
really compete with that.
What we need is families,because that's who we want to
serve, who we're, that's who wewant to serve.
And so we've just got to kindof go around that whole
apparatus of advertising,because we got to go straight to
(44:24):
, straight to moms and dads.
Shanda (44:25):
Yeah, well, you definitely have us as an
advocate here because, uh, likeI said, our family, I mean, we
do video games sometimes andwhen we saw that, I was like
this is definitely what I wouldlove for my kids to play.
James (44:37):
yeah, yeah, and I love, you know, instead of trying to,
you know, win the game or beatthem, meaning the video game
creators at their own game.
You like broke the rules andyou're like no, I'm going to go
old school and I think it'sgreat.
SD Smith (44:52):
It is.
It's kind of a I appreciate yousaying that, because it does
feel a little bit like a, likean insurrection or like
guerrilla warfare, because we,we can't I mean they really do
spend.
So and you probably see, it onany kind of you just almost
can't avoid yeah the ads forthese games and they have, they
employ the biggest celebrities,they have so much invested in it
and we just can't that, wecan't do that and we don't want
to do that.
(45:12):
So so, yeah, it's.
It means a lot to have peoplesort of understand that, the
heart that we've poured intothese books for 10 years like a
radical, generous hospitalityand love and a commitment to
serving families, to be alliesin imagination that we're
bringing all that energy and allthat intentionality into this
(45:33):
game and it's not something thatwe're just like oh, just play
this game all your life.
No, that's nothing.
James (45:36):
We want reading.
SD Smith (45:37):
We want it to be a gateway to reading back and
forth.
We want kids to go outside andplay.
We want you know we're nottrying to we're seeing the
children as human beings made inthe image of God.
And how do we love and servethem?
And it's it's really appreciateyou guys seeing that
understanding and beingadvocates for us.
It just means the world to me.
James (45:54):
Yeah, absolutely, and if you don't mind not to sound
silly but like, could youexplain exactly what you know,
what?
So there's a book and a gameand kind of just assume that I
know nothing about it and maybeto those listeners out there
that literally don't knowanything about it, do you mind
explaining that kind ofinterface a little bit?
Thank you.
SD Smith (46:13):
That's such a great question.
I appreciate that because I'vebeen in it so deep that I can't
Right.
Yeah, it's it's a really coolum like sort of uh, uh.
It's I don't know if I don'tknow if anybody's ever done this
before it's.
It is literally the we have anew novel, sort of a new novel
featuring a character who'sreally popular, a anticipated
(46:40):
novel, and and so that novelwill be released, but that novel
has a video gamization so youcan literally just play the
story from that novel in thisvideo game and you can go back
and forth and you can sort ofenter into it at the same time.
So it's, you know, whereas amovie would come out and then,
oh, we'll make a video game, youknow, a few months later or a
year later, or something, oreven a big book property.
We're doing it at the same time.
So I think of it as this sortof like really neat, hospitable
(47:02):
sort of way to kids always playthe green ember.
So they always go back in the,in the backyard and play with
sticks and that kind of thingand they'll draw and they'll
create in that world.
And we think of this as a newway to play the green ember.
And and yeah, just like a book,it has a beginning, a middle and
an end.
It it's probably three to sixhours total time and you can, of
course, go back and, just likeyou'd go back and read a book,
(47:22):
you could go back and play itagain and again and probably
change the difficulty, settingsand that kind of thing.
But it is its own story.
It's kind of maybe comparableto the old Mario game where you
have like there's a quest andyou're trying to it's it's not,
you can't go anywhere.
Yeah, so it's got it's, it's,it's got that.
Yeah, it's, it's a story gamethe beginning, middle and the
end and it's really tied to thisand it's and people for a long
(47:45):
time wanted us to do like amovie or tv show and we've had
some opportunities with that.
We're kind of waiting for theright, right timing, right
partnerships on that, but thisis a bit of a step in that
direction, kind of like a littlebit of an opportunity to sort
of for the green ember to jumpoff the page in an exciting way
and and we're, uh, that's, Ireally want it to, I want to
work it's you know, you canimagine the you know, james, as
(48:09):
an entrepreneur.
Shanda (48:09):
Like the finances are different for a game than they
are for a book, so that's partof like we're fighting, we, we
it's a.
SD Smith (48:15):
It's a different prospect and, yeah, a little bit
hard for people understand.
So I appreciate you asking thatclarifying question.
We tied them together in theKickstarter.
They're tied together.
Some people say, well, you justwant the book.
I understand that.
We want them to be together.
It's sort of like, so you cansort of experience this in this
new way.
Shanda (48:33):
Where are you at like in your Kickstarter funding?
Are you tracking well as far aslike getting it fully funded so
far?
Yeah, are you?
SD Smith (48:39):
tracking.
Well, as far as, like, gettingit fully funded so far, yeah, I
think there's always.
You know, you probably knowthis if you're in business.
There are kind of like twostories.
Both of them are kind of true.
There is a sense in which it'sgoing really, really well.
I mean, we're a few days in andwe're reaching our.
We're getting closer toreaching our goal.
We're over halfway to our goal.
The goal is an initial goal,though you know that's a public
(49:02):
goal.
It means something.
We're trying to reach 200,000,and that would be good if we got
there.
We really need to get there forthe project's sake, but we're
way more ambitious than that andit's just like you've got to
deal with the reality of it.
It's a tough.
I think it's tough for people.
This is why this is so helpfulto talk about it, because I
(49:24):
think it is sometimes hard forpeople to understand a book.
I actually think if we justoffered the book, we'd be sort
of pretty far ahead of where weare now.
It complicates it.
It makes people think can Ithink through this?
What does that mean and and howdo I play it and stuff.
So it it's, uh, it ischallenging in a way.
But but I would just say we're,we're really ambitious and we
want to.
We want to we, because we're socommitted to these kids and
(49:47):
want to want this to be a bigway.
I mean, the game won't work, um, if we don't, you know, if we
don't like crank it up and wedon't do well with it, we won't
be able to keep doing it.
So we're, we're fighting prettyhard for for it.
I mean, that's part of thereason why we tied it to this
really popular yeah characterand release.
So, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a,it's a battle.
James (50:04):
But we're up, yeah, but it's, it's a, it's a battle
worth fighting and I reallyappreciate your transparency
with this because, like, nothinghappens for free, right, you
know, and I I love capitalismand I I like to when people are
willing to talk about it.
I think it's healthy, I thinkit's helpful because, you know,
(50:26):
I don't know, like there's justso many different sides to like
we talked about earlier.
I mean, you're an author, butthat's just one.
You know, unfortunately, youknow, maybe even a small part at
times of your business.
Unfortunately, you know, maybeeven a small part at times of
your business and the businessside, I mean, without feeding
your family and and making surethose boxes are checked, there
(50:47):
is no green number, there is noSD Smith and things like that.
So I think it's great and I Ihope you 10 exit and think big
and and do your thing and, youknow, exceed all those those
aspirations, because I mean,like all those aspirations,
because I mean, like we saidthroughout this podcast, I mean
the world needs this story andthe world needs, you know,
(51:07):
people that are advocates forthe gospel, for children, for,
just, you know, a healthy,successful life, and so I think
it's awesome.
So you have a big fan here.
SD Smith (51:18):
Thank you, james.
That means the world to me.
Honestly, that's like we don't,I don't.
We do a lot of.
I do a lot of interviews andstuff, and that's not normally a
component that comes out butit's totally real.
It's, it's, it's.
Part of it is that you thinkyou're going to get a a cool
game.
That's really.
(51:39):
Yeah, it's not.
I will agree with you.
It's not free to do that.
It's not free in time or energyor money or anything.
James (51:47):
It's a big, big amount.
Yeah, the lack of ads comes ata cost to the end user and to
you.
I mean, you're the one takingthe risk on this.
So, like I said, I think it'sawesome.
Shanda (52:00):
And even you having to volunteer your time for this
podcast just so that you canhave an opportunity to talk
about it, and stuff, too, likethere's.
There's so many factors that gointo promoting this.
James (52:09):
Well, he's getting 3 million sales.
That's going to help a lot.
I mean, that will do it all.
SD Smith (52:16):
That'll go a long way.
Actually, this is what I need todo is to be able to explain and
thank you so much for thatclarifying question and for
being able to to, just forunderstanding and for helping,
because this is what we need todo, is we need to help sort of
the audience, just to understandand just to read them.
I think there's a lot of peopleout there that are like, yeah,
I want to get behind, I want todo media in this new because
(52:38):
it's to complain about, oh,media is so bad or whatever.
But we're trying, we're doingsomething.
And there's a lot of people thatare just like yeah, I'm on
board with that, but it's justhard to reach them because
you've got to pay a trilliondollars to just get their
attention now, it's so hard.
So, so it just this helps somuch this.
You guys have been such greatallies and I'm so grateful for
that.
Shanda (52:57):
Well, we really appreciate you taking time out
of your day to do this, so couldyou definitely let our
listeners know where they canconnect with you, like what are
your social media, your website?
SD Smith (53:10):
It's all at sdsmithcom .
So just S D D for Dale.
Sdsmithcom is pretty and if youwant to go to Kickstarter and
and you know, type in greenEmber, I think you could find
our new project.
That's probably the mostpressing thing, but I think you
can find everything atsdsmithcom.
Shanda (53:26):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much forthis time.
I guess we'll wrap it upbecause we're kind of getting a
little long here, so until nexttime, we want to encourage you
(53:47):
to seek God, love your spouse,hug your kids and stay devoted.
Thank you for tuning in to thisDevoted Life podcast.
Hug your kids and stay devoted.
The show and we'd love to hearfrom you.
Be sure to hit subscribe so younever miss an episode.
To learn more about how to livea life devoted to God and
family, head over tothisdevotedlifecom.
You can also follow me, Shanda,on Instagram at devoted
(54:12):
underscore motherhood.
Thank you again for listeningand we look forward to seeing
you next time on this DevotedLife podcast.
What started as a Saturday morning coffee date
turned into a podcast where wechat about things like faith,
family finances and so much more.
Shanda (00:09):
In a world that is encouraging you to live your
truth and to follow your heart.
We want to encourage you tolive devoted to the truth.
James (00:18):
The Bible has a lot to say about how to live a
victorious Christian life, andwe want to share practical
insight in how to apply thosetruths to your life, as we
endeavor to apply them to ourown lives as well.
Shanda (00:31):
If you enjoy this podcast, please leave us a
review and share these episodeswith your friends so that you
can help them live this devotedlife too.
Welcome to another episode ofthis Devoted Life podcast.
We are so excited because wehave Sam Smith on the podcast
today, though you may betterknow him as SD Smith, the writer
of the Green Ember series.
(00:52):
So what started as stories hetold his four children when they
were little turned into abeloved children's series that
inspired children and adultswith soul-shaping, memory-making
and darkness-shaking adventures.
With over a million copies sold, this series of stories are
packed with virtue andimagination that help shape
children into children of light,piercing the darkness around
(01:14):
them.
He is always working on hisnext adventure and we'll be
talking about a Kickstartercampaign that he has going right
now, which is his futureproject, but I'm sure he would
tell you one of his greatest andbest adventures has been
marrying his wife and raisinghis two boys and two girls.
So we want to say welcome toSam.
SD Smith (01:32):
Hi, well, hello.
I was so excited about thatjump in sales that we actually
just placed a 3 million copyorder.
So instead of the 10 minutes Ipromised.
Let's go ahead and do the full30.
Shanda (01:52):
I mean thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
Can you just kind of tell ourlisteners a little bit more
about yourself, maybe some ofyour hobbies, things you enjoy
and who you are?
SD Smith (02:02):
Sure, thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be with youguys.
My name is Sam and I'm marriedto Gina, and we have four kids.
We live in Southern WestVirginia, a rural part of West
Virginia, which is to say, apart of West Virginia, and we
love our community and we'reinvolved with our church and our
(02:24):
community in a strong way, andI'm a missionary kid.
So I moved from Huntington,west Virginia area, to Beckley,
west Virginia area, via SouthAfrica.
Shanda (02:35):
So that's kind of you know.
SD Smith (02:35):
I've got a sort of a usual room.
Shanda (02:37):
Yeah, how long were you in South Africa for?
SD Smith (02:41):
So kind of interesting .
I was there basically myteenage years.
I share this sometimes, but Iwas 12 when we left and I turned
13, my first birthday in SouthAfrica.
When I went there, nelsonMandela was in prison and I
turned 13 the day he wasreleased from prison in South
Africa, and then when we left,he was the president of the
country.
So just an interesting,fascinating time to be, there 89
(03:06):
.
And so I was there sort ofduring the nineties.
But yeah missionary kid and mydad's been in ministry and yeah,
my, I love what you were saying.
Just the family has been thebig adventure and I'd love to
talk about that some.
But I just keep thinking abouthow so many people
(03:26):
understandably view kids andfamily domestic obligations as
sort of an obstacle to and a lotof creative people are like oh,
if I didn't have to do thelaundry, then I could write the
great American novel or whatever.
Actually sympathize with that?
Shanda (03:41):
I know that there's a real struggle there for for um,
but that's been.
SD Smith (03:45):
That has not been the obstacle for me.
That's been the way.
James (03:48):
Yeah, the, the thing, that little ryan holiday.
SD Smith (03:52):
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah and I and I don't know if it was
he did he come up with?
I thought that was an olderkind of a thing.
James (03:59):
Yeah, it's, it's much, much older, but he did write a
book that's called the obstacleis the way, so I just thought
I'd throw that in there.
I'm not giving any credit.
SD Smith (04:06):
Do more credit Right, right yeah I honestly love what
you're saying.
James (04:10):
Yeah, it's very true.
SD Smith (04:12):
And so, yeah, that whole family and even apart from
sort of like, oh, that meantthat I was successful because
the story that I told led to it,that has happened, that has
happened that's part of thestory, but I actually think that
the things that we long for asartists, as human beings.
(04:32):
You know, we want sort of tohave a long-lasting impact, we
want to have connections, wewant what we, what we put our
energy into, to matter insignificant ways.
And like that's what you get athome, like that's what you get
pour into kids, into your family, like that.
And I don't, I don't, I'mpretty convinced, I'm not sure
I'll ever make anything likecreate anything, write anything
that will have a more of animpact in the world than the
four human beings that Jane andI are raising.
(04:52):
I just think that that's waymore potent.
I mean, that's going to.
They're going to multiply, lordwilling, and that'll be 200,
300 thousands of people soon,and so I'll have a chance to
impact the world, all the peoplethey touch, and I don't think
any of my books, even the onesthat sell you know a whole lot
or reach a big thing, I justdon't think any of them will
have that impact.
Shanda (05:11):
So I just yeah, you're right.
SD Smith (05:12):
I loved your intro because I was like that is
exactly, that's exactly my heart.
Shanda (05:28):
I think it's to the 10th generation is, and it talks
about how that multiplying outis.
Your family will becomethousands and millions of people
someday, and the seeds thatyou're planting for the kingdom
right now are just going tocontinue to multiply, and so
that really is.
I mean, it's obviously yourheart, and it's the heart of our
ministry too, is just to helpfamilies build those futures or
that heavenly kingdom you knowhelp families build those
futures, or that, that heavenlykingdom you know.
SD Smith (05:47):
Yeah, I believe that once I once gave a talk and the
sort of the refrain and it wasthe kingdom of god is our aim
and heart no the kingdom of godis our family's heart, the end
and aim of all our art I wastrying to think of something
that was like meaningful, thatwe would catch in someone's mind
.
It was sort of like it was acreative conference.
So I was trying to sort of saythat message of like it's not.
they're not the obstacle,they're not, they're not in the
(06:07):
way they're here, this is thisis your calling this is and it's
all the things you long for asan artist.
To you know, to there's so muchof that there and I know it's
mundane and part of thechallenge is it's not fame.
Shanda (06:21):
So it doesn't get you.
SD Smith (06:22):
You know when you wipe the 5,000th diaper or you know,
I guess, and wipe the bottomand, you know, clean the room,
whatever.
And it's so modest, it's sounseen, but that is.
There's so much depth and rich.
And, honestly, even if you'rethinking about being a creative
sort of a creative calling, likethere is no, I don't know.
(06:43):
There's no way to get to whereyou can share meaningful, good,
generous work without suffering.
I think if someone offers youthe long cut or the shortcut,
you take, take the long cut.
The long cut is where youbecome the kind of person that
can, that can serve people in adifferent way.
So, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'mfor the family.
(07:05):
I'm just coming out.
I'm coming out now making abold statement.
I think the families are great.
Shanda (07:09):
No, I love that Absolutely.
I remember years ago a friend ofmine and you being a missionary
kid.
She told me that she alwaysfelt like God was calling her to
the mission field and sheactually felt like once she got
pregnant and had a baby that shewasn't able to fulfill that
calling.
And I remember looking at herand saying, well, you're
fulfilling it right now, withinyour home, because God has given
(07:31):
you your mission fieldliterally within your home,
right now, and I didn't realizehow much of an impact that made
on her until years later she waslike you have no idea how much
that changed the mindset that Ihad going into the day-to-day of
just this is what God hascalled me to right now, in this
season.
SD Smith (07:47):
And so I love that.
She had 37 children and startedin church and it was like, wow,
we've got.
No, I love it.
That's a great way to build thekingdom.
It's just I have more babies,yeah.
James (08:01):
Honestly, you can promote the things in your household,
you know, in your children.
You can promote them andobviously they're their own
individuals.
They're going to be the peoplethey're going to be and, you
know, while it's definitelythrough the gospel, it is also
through the home and it'shonestly the main reason why we
(08:35):
even do this podcast.
So that's kind of the heart ofher ministry.
SD Smith (08:41):
That's powerful.
Yeah, moms are.
I mean.
I love the, the kind of womenI'm sure that are listening to
this is they're like my wife,you know they're serious women
who care and love the lord andand have challenges like
everybody else, maybe too overanxious or fearful about this or
worried about that, but they'retrying, they're trying, they're
like they're, they're, they'regoing for it and I love that.
(09:04):
That.
It's beautiful yeah.
Shanda (09:05):
Yeah, I know that you have said you know that your
family is like your lastinglegacy but obviously, like your
books are going to leave animpact on other people, who are
some authors that you would saymade an impact on you as a kid.
That has kind of shaped youinto the person that you become.
SD Smith (09:22):
For sure, I mean massive, I that you become for
sure.
I mean massive.
I mean reading is is magic, Imean it's, it's this miraculous
thing that you can.
I have been discipled by cslewis and you know that's just
isn't.
That's so cool.
I mean that's a technology.
Again, thinking about sort oflike you know, playing with uh
in a technological world, whichmaybe we'll get on to, but like
(09:43):
even yeah you know, even yourson dawson doing like rc cars.
That's like playing with thetechnology, but there's
something really cool about it.
It's like very connected tothis and and the technology of
the printing press.
The technology of books hasbeen so, you know, and there
were people I was just readingthomas jefferson the other day
who's writing about warningpeople about novels.
Just like the novels sohorrible, and you can kind of
(10:05):
find that about a lot of things.
You know, when the bicycle cameout, just people absolutely
flipped out, horrible, and maybethey were right, I don't know.
Bicycle is really scary, butit's just the technology that I
have the opportunity to read,that I can read CS Lewis, I can
read George McDonnell.
I can read George McDonnell, Ican read GK Chesterton, I can
read Jane Austen, and thesepeople all have had a massive
(10:27):
influence on me and there's somemore spiritually, but actually
I would say that there's neverbeen a book that has impacted me
more profoundly in a spiritualway than.
The Lord of the Rings and I wasnot a big reader as a kid.
I became a little bit ladeninto it.
So I was in my teens before Iwas reading a lot.
But that book is so profoundlygood and actually you think
(10:49):
about Lewis's experience himselfthat he found a book by he
didn't even know it about.
It was called Fantasties and heread this book.
He was a devout atheist beingdiscipled by an extremely devout
atheist Right yeah.
The great knock Kirkpatrick andhe was, so he had no time for it
and it was.
It was something he wasrejecting actively.
(11:09):
But he read this book,fantasties, and he said that it
had like the, the stench, thearoma of holiness, and he
encountered that through fiction.
And I would just say that thatexperience, I mean, and that's
had unbelievably compounding,profound impact of goodness,
goodness, when you think aboutwhat he went on to create.
So this lineage going back soprofound and so beautiful.
(11:31):
And Tolkien, just I mean theLord of the Rings.
I love the Bible.
I read the Bible more thananything.
As a teenager read constantly,and what happened when I read
the Lord of the Rings is thatthat helped me to love what the
Bible put forth as beautiful.
I saw it.
(11:51):
It was like I could see it.
Shanda (11:52):
And it was not an allegory.
SD Smith (11:53):
It's not heavy handed, it's not sort of like.
This means this it wasn't liketrying to dominate me, it was an
invitation.
It was beautiful, good story.
It was such profound and hasbeen no-transcript so Tolkien,
(12:29):
lewis for sure, which is like acliche answer, but I don't care
because it's so good.
James (12:33):
No, I mean, it's the truth, yeah.
SD Smith (12:35):
Brilliant and Chesterton as well, and I do
love Jane Austen a whole lot andI would say Louisa Malkot and
Alan Patton and PG Woodhouse, asfar as just like enjoyment for
reading that kind of thing.
That's probably a little bit ofthe humor sort of side, but
yeah, I could go on and on.
Shanda (12:54):
Well, I laughed when I saw that I think in a bio that
you had online that you hadLittle Women written down as one
of the books that you loved asa child and I did not read it
until last year it was the firsttime I read it.
And then we happened to be at awork conference and I realized
that the Louisa May Alcott housewas like 10 minutes away and I
said we need to go and see.
So we were able to go and justwalk in her footsteps, like
(13:16):
where she was writing, and justthe fact that she used both her
right and left hand to write sothat she didn't have to stop
writing, she could just swaphands when a hand got tired, and
I was like that is so neat toactually see what inspired her
and where she was sitting whenshe started to write that.
James (13:31):
And you could see the little girl come out and hurt so
much.
I mean, she was just like yes,it was amazing.
SD Smith (13:38):
I want to go to that.
I would love to go.
So that was an important onefor me, because that's the first
time I thought about being anauthor.
I wasn't reading at the time,but I had a teacher who read
that book to us in first gradeand my mother read the Chronicle
of Narnia.
This teacher, miss Geiner, sheread Little Women and I remember
hearing about Jo being a writerand I remember thinking like,
(13:59):
oh, you can sort of like, oh,you can do that, like that's
really cool.
And and then then hearing fromher that that was sort of that.
She was sort of a stand-in forlouisa herself and I just I was
just inspired and I thought, forsome reason, I thought you know
, authors were really far away,they were in england or there
was something, and this was likeoh this is a person with.
There's a big family like yeah,yeah, she's an american and
(14:21):
she's close and they're notwealthy and I just kind of
thought, well, that's like myfamily.
So it just got in my head like,oh, that's a really cool
vocation.
Maybe that's super cool.
Shanda (14:30):
Well, and I love that when a book is well written it's
timeless.
So as a kid I mean, I watchedthe movie and I definitely
related with Joe when I waslittle, but reading it this time
around I was like I wasrelating to Marmee now, and I
just was like this is.
I want to have my motherhoodreflect this a little bit, and
there were little bits andpieces of it that I was able to
(14:52):
take and I just was like this issuch a good, deep, rich,
beautiful writing, and I mean itcan inspire all areas of your
life 100% and I'd love to be.
SD Smith (15:02):
I wouldn't mind being like the dad in the book, but
less excited about being likethe real dad the book was being
I'd want to do a little betterjob.
I'm here.
That's a whole other subjectthere.
James (15:18):
We all need to touch that one not to get too far into the
weeds on what you just said,but, as you were saying, you
relating to different charactersyou know, at different points
in your life.
I mean, it's so symbolic to life.
You know, I think whether we'regoing to church literally
anything that we're doing in theseason of life, we can get
(15:38):
different things out of it.
I mean, look at the living wordof God.
You know in the Bible and as achild, hearing all of the, you
know the biblical stories andthings like that and how they
talk to you.
But then you know as an adult,there's so much deeper meaning
there and I, just when you saidit, for some reason my mind
started thinking of all thedifferent aspects in lenses in
(15:59):
life that we use and wesometimes we just we need it at
that moment and it can be soimpactful.
Shanda (16:07):
So that's my little blurb.
We're Charlotte Masonhomeschoolers so we talk about a
lot about like living books andI mean what we're talking about
right now is that, I mean,obviously, the Bible is the
ultimate living book, but thereare ideas that reflect the truth
that God has given us in hisword, through story, and it
really is very impactful.
SD Smith (16:27):
I totally resonate with that.
I was talking to somebodyyesterday about like it's funny
how people give new Christiansthe book of John or someone that
they're thinking about Like andI think that's cool.
It's like it's a.
It's amazing, though that'ssuch a deeply profound, it's so
philosophical, it's so poetic,it's so philosophical, it's so
poetic, it's so beautiful.
It's like oh, that's the thingyou're introducing.
It's really wild, but it'sgreat too because you encounter.
(16:50):
Jesus in it and you can justencounter Jesus with whatever
baggage, whatever history youhave, and it's so compelling you
either want to reject him orworship him, but it is different
.
It's funny that 50 years lateror 20 years later, you might
read the same thing, havingspent time in the Pentateuch.
Shanda (17:05):
And then you're reading John, it's a completely
different.
SD Smith (17:08):
You're just oh my goodness, this is Genesis.
Again and again it's justGenesis again and I love that
and I think that's part of sortof a person who reads Genesis or
all the Pentateuch and readsEcclesiastes, the wisdom
literature, and reads John.
There's I mean, there's some,there's depth there.
James (17:30):
Oh, my goodness yeah.
SD Smith (17:31):
Profound.
Profound.
Same thing, same word, but theprofundity of that is so
powerful and it's so literary,it's so beautiful and literary,
and so much for scripture is.
There's so much music and songs.
I love the phrase that historydoesn't repeat itself, but it
rhymes, and you just see therhyming all through the gospel,
just everywhere.
But it's in life too.
(17:52):
It's just that there is such aprofound.
I mean, lewis said that theintellect is the organ of truth
and that the imagination is theorgan of meaning, and I'm such
an advocate for Christiansrecapturing a capacity for
imagination.
I think we're reallyimpoverished when we strictly
look at information and thinkthat that's going to be, if I
(18:14):
have the correct information.
Why is the scripture so full ofstories?
Why are even the commands inscripture so rooted in narrative
, so rooted in a story?
I am the god who brought youout of egypt.
That's the context for the tencommandments.
Uh, you know, I am the, the.
The christ is died, buried,raised, seen.
(18:34):
That's the context for all thecommands of the new testament so
it's not so much about like, ifyou, if we just say like this,
or, but take this information inascent to this information
mentally download this yeah,yeah, yeah.
We're not brains on a stick,we're embodied human beings, and
so what we do with our bodiesmatters and our imagination is
such a profound capacity.
That's part of my mission is Ijust want to enliven, I want to
(19:00):
enrich the imagination offamilies and kids and I want it
to be rooted in that capital Rreality.
That is the truth.
The way I don't want to lie tochildren about the way God made
the world.
I feel like it's a bigstewardship, but just the
imagination is so profound andso powerful and I think you just
see it in scripture.
I just, I'm sorry, just James,when you just got me going, you
(19:21):
think about alive.
It's just so, and it's not thatthe information changes or
something in it.
But it's truth, but it is so,it's just.
It hits you.
It can hit you as a scholar, itcan hit you as a poet, it can
hit you as a child, maybe mostyou know best as a child
according to the Lord you know,and so it's just yeah, it's
(19:43):
awesome.
Shanda (19:46):
Yeah, it really is.
So what are your take, or whatis your take on modern
children's literature then?
Because I mean, there's a lotof books that have been put out
in modern times and sometimes Ikind of question, because it
feels like the heroes of thestory are no longer heroes and
the villains are no longervillains.
And it's what is your take onthe modern children's literature
(20:08):
that's coming out?
And I don't equate your booksto that.
James (20:12):
Yeah, no, I mean, that's literally kind of what you're
saying that in his books thevillain is the villain, and yeah
, yeah.
Shanda (20:20):
So what's your take on that?
SD Smith (20:21):
I think that a lot of modern books are timely, they
are rooted in a time and theyare very much like about a topic
or something and honestly,unfortunately, I think you get
this sort of from.
Well, I think there's a lot ofbeen a reaction to all.
(20:46):
These people are telling allthese lies and um, pushing an
agenda.
So you know how we'll counterthat.
We'll do children's books thatpush the opposite agenda and
we'll sort of like the kids kindof get lost in this as far as
like what's what is good for achild and I do think there are
some differences between a lotof the timeless classics, and
it's a little bit of a bias,because the books that survive
(21:07):
you know an Anne of Green Gablesand Ivanhoe, a tale of two
cities or whatever you know thecount of Monte Cristo the reason
we have them is because theywere the, they were the best you
know.
And so there's been thisfiltering over time, which is a,
which is a good safety or notsafety, but like a good device.
Lewis talked about that, aboutreading three old books for
(21:28):
everyone.
You read from this century, readfrom the old, let the fresh
breeze of the centuries blowthrough your imagination, and I
think that's really good wisdom.
But I think part of the reasonfor that is because you don't
know, I mean in our own culture.
I think some of the challengesabout it is a lot of the
children's literature is thissort of whole universe spiraling
into me as an.
I am the center, and so what Ijust say about myself, how I
(21:52):
define myself, it's like it'sthis very centered, and I think
the best literature makes achild feel small in a good way,
as in I'm a part of something.
I'm small in this big universeand that's like a really sweet
thing and actually it's a coolcause for peril.
You know why you see, mostchildren's books end up with
like the parents getdisconnected at some point and
(22:13):
that's.
I don't think that's alwayslike a well, we're trying to
divide it.
Sometimes it's just like that'sthat makes you scared it makes
for action and peril.
I see it in Narnia and youcertainly see it in Lord of the
Rings.
The hobbits are basicallychildren.
So the best books I think aretimeless and they have timeless
(22:36):
values and they have a sort of ahumility in regards to the
universe and to God and the sortof meaning behind you know kind
of goes out.
It's not, it doesn't gospiraling in.
It locates a person in thismore humble way and I think
that's why so much of oldliterature is more refreshing.
I think it's more rooted inreality.
Often, and honestly, a lot ofit is rooted in a Christian
(22:59):
worldview and in a reallyprofound way.
Even the Dickens I do like, andI've totally resonated with what
you're saying.
A lot of modern stories arelike the villains just
misunderstood or they justneeded a hug or that kind of
thing, and I think that ispretty tedious and like
overplayed.
I do.
I do think that you know, ifyou believe the gospel, then
it's there is like a, there's away back, and it's like that,
(23:21):
there is a.
In my own stories I like that.
There's, there's clarity, as insort of there there are types
of animals or whatever that arejust evil and that's, that's
really simple, and they can be.
There's just to be fought andopposed, yeah and but.
But the rabbits aren't just goodand so they are morally complex
, so they can go along with theway of death or the way of life.
(23:44):
So they they with the way ofdeath or the way of life, so
they're stand-ins for us.
They're people really.
So I like moral complexity asin that is the reality of the
world.
We can every day differentmoments and the idea that we're
going to like oh, I see virtueand now I shall be virtuous.
It's not as simple as that.
We struggle with sin and wefail, and what we need is models
of repentance and models ofpeople choosing in suffering for
(24:07):
maybe the way following the wayof life.
And so I think in my books Iwant there to be moral
complexity.
I want a bad character to beable to turn back.
I want them to sometimes tojust go on, choose the bad way
and maybe they talk for a while,because I mean, read the Bible.
It's like it happens for a longtime and it's frustrating to
(24:28):
some psalmists.
And so I want there to be moralcomplexity.
So I respect that, but I don'tlike the reduction of all
stories to misunderstandings.
I think that is a big problemwith a lot of literature.
Shanda (24:45):
So I sympathize with your concerns there.
SD Smith (24:46):
For sure I like the moral clarity of the moral
universe of a lot of literature,so I sympathize with your
concerns there.
For sure I like the moralclarity of the moral universe of
a lot of classic literature.
Shanda (24:52):
I had once heard Andrew Pudewa was speaking and he
talked about just how inchildren's literature, when they
can see evil and they can seegood, it helps them to learn to
differentiate between it.
It's kind of like gainingwisdom and being able to
identify what is right and whatis wrong, and obviously the
characters are morally complex,but they're able to see what is
(25:13):
right through these stories andare then able to, hopefully,
when they're applying it totheir own life and they come to
a situation that may be similaror something happens and they're
like okay, I can choose one ofthese paths, because I've seen
this in stories and I want tochoose to do what is right.
SD Smith (25:28):
That's like the romance of goodness.
I think that's a big thing.
That's missing, too, from a lotof literature.
Simone Weil has this wonderfulquotation, which I can never get
exactly right, but basicallysays that imaginary evil is like
fun and glorious and excitingand everything, and imaginary
good is boring and but real evilis so bad so hard, absolutely
(25:51):
depressing, and it's just andreal good is life-giving and new
and precious and so it's thepart of what I feel like my
mission is.
I want to sort of introduce thesort of the romance, the
adventure of, of goodness, ofbeauty, truth, of reality, and
and like say no, no, the, whenthe people that say that the,
(26:12):
the, what god says is a lie, orthat it's a, that it's a shackle
, that it's a chains orsomething, no, it's, it's a key,
it's not, it's not a cage, andthat's a part of my heart is
like to sort of that to be andand I don't do that, and like
I'm going to teach, going toteach the kids.
I won't know Telling the truthis right and telling lies.
So if I write a story wheresomeone tells a lie and then
they get in trouble and badthings, I don't want to reduce,
(26:34):
I want to tell real, you know,adventurous stories, not just
moralistic tracks.
You know, I want, I want tohave adventure, I want to
respect the craft of, but I wantto respect the craft of, but I
want to tell the truth the wholetime.
I don't I never, want to lie.
I must not tell lies and and and.
So, yeah, if you walk away, Ihope my prayer is.
And when the Lord's answeredthis prayer by the testimony of
(26:54):
many, many people, and I justgive him glory, for that is that
people walk away.
Kids walk away from readingGreen Ember, from that world,
and they are changed in goodways, yeah, and they have an
encounter with reality with acapital R and it may not.
There's not, you know, someonedoesn't get saved and someone
doesn't start.
Oh, now I'll go to church.
I'll read my Bible that doesn'tgenerally work.
(27:15):
But they will be changed andthey'll have an encounter with
truth, with beauty and goodness.
I pray, and God's answered thatprayer and I give.
Him.
Glory for that.
Shanda (27:27):
Yeah, I know that before starting this podcast you had
mentioned that you've kind ofbeen wrestling with this topic
of advocate versus accuser and Iwant to let you kind of talk on
that.
But there was a quote in one ofyour books that I wanted to read
that I think kind of ties intowhat we've been talking about in
that topic.
I'm going to read it for asecond.
It says all of life is a battleagainst fear.
(27:48):
We fight it on one front and itsneaks around to our flank.
He paused, looked kindly at heryes, father, I understand.
And he said I regret manythings I have done, but most of
all I regret those moments whenI said to fear you are my master
.
And I just was like that is sogood, because so often kids deal
with these fears and they don'tknow how to conquer them.
(28:11):
And as I was listening to youtalk, I thought you are being an
advocate for children throughyour writing and helping point
them towards Christ.
And so I would love to hearjust kind of your thoughts on
this being an advocate versusbeing an accuser, because
obviously our advocate is Christand the accuser is the devil,
and so often, like we know,we're talking about this tugging
(28:33):
war between good and evil, andwe have this accuser who is
always whispering lies into ourear, and God has not given us a
spirit of fear, but of power andof love and of a sound mind.
Not given us a spirit of fear,but of power and of love and of
a sound mind.
And so we need to learn to bediscerning between what voice
are we listening to?
Is it our advocate or is it ouraccuser?
(28:54):
And what role are we, asparents, playing into our
children's life?
SD Smith (29:00):
Yeah Well, and I'll just say that you quoted from
the Green ember that part is.
That's not because I'm so smartI want to teach people this.
It's because that's my problem.
Like that's me.
I have said that I've said yesto fear and I've given in.
That's part of the internalstruggle of one of the main
(29:21):
characters.
Heather, which I really relateto, is someone who's anxious,
someone who struggles with that,and so that's a real.
That's not something that'slike, oh, that's used to be back
before.
Shanda (29:32):
I was a super Christian.
I'm growing, I'm growing ingrace.
SD Smith (29:34):
God's giving me a lot of blessings, a lot of victory,
but it's something I strugglewith and so to say I want to and
yeah.
So that's really a core idea ofthe of the green ember series.
Is this sort of like bravery?
And it's not so much, andthat's not as, as everybody
knows, it's not the absence offear, it's, it's actually
(29:57):
required for the presence offear is required.
That's, it's so.
It's not so much.
If you do all the right things,you will not be afraid, or it's
when I'm, I will trust in you,and it's, it's, it's so.
It's not the sort of theabsence of challenges or the
absence of temptation or eventhe absence of weakness.
It's not the absence of will Iever ever get sick and die?
(30:19):
You will, like, you will die,you will weaken and die, unless
it happens really quick.
Like so there's this, this.
I don't like the sort of theprosperity heresy of like
everything, if you just do theright things, everything will
work out.
I want to deal with the realityof suffering and so much of the
scriptures about suffering andand how to equip that.
And I think that the books havereally resonated with people
(30:40):
who have, you know, goingthrough childhood cancer or loss
or this kind of thing, becausethey deal with suffering in an
honest way and, I hope, abiblical way.
And, yeah, I think the advocatething.
I just think that so manypeople who care a lot about the
truth have a disposition ofbeing a critic, which can be
(31:02):
very closely related to being anaccuser.
And so the the view I thinkabout christ, uh, healing the
man with the withered hand.
And you know he's.
He, there's a man with awithered hand, it's the sabbath,
and in front of the synagogueand he and, and he's looking in
the pharisees.
What are they doing?
They are looking at him to seehow they can accuse him.
That's, that's.
(31:22):
That's a big deal doing.
Diabolus, the devil, that isthe, what his name is, it is the
accuser, one who throws stones.
That's his thing.
So these religious leaders aresitting around watching him.
And what are they watching him?
To see if he will heal a guywith a withered hand In an
agrarian culture.
This is a man who is, you know,it's not like he can get a tech
job or something like this.
(31:43):
This is how you work.
You tech job or something likethis is this is how you work,
you know.
So you're talking about thelivelihood, you're talking about
the life of this man, hisfamily, whatever you know.
And there's their focus is letme see if he does, let me see if
he breaks this rule.
And so they're, they'reimmediate.
That's their intention.
So, and and and Jesus appealsto them.
You know, is it right on theSabbath to do good or to do bad.
Is it do good or to do bad?
(32:08):
Like is it?
Is it better to do death orlife?
On this app, he's kind of like,and they, and their answer is
not, oh, their answer is silence, because all they're doing is
watching him.
Yeah, and I just think, like,if that and he heals the man,
it's beautiful, it's a wonderfulstory.
I love it so much.
Stretch out your hand and hestretches out this hand and it's
just and it's hit a hole againand they walk, walk away the
religious leaders.
They walk away and plan to killhim.
(32:29):
That is like they walk away andplan to kill him.
Shanda (32:32):
That's their disposition .
SD Smith (32:33):
So I just think if and I'm not trying to apply that to
everything in life, but I thinkif my disposition is basically
like I'm looking for troubleeverywhere, I'm looking for
problems, are you doing that alittle bit wrong?
And I think that is natural tome.
I think it's natural to a lotof people who are thoughtful or
like I've had to wrestle with,like is this sinful?
Is this not, and I'm trying tothink through the worldview and
I'm trying to not just leteverything come to me.
(32:55):
So then I think theovercorrection on that side from
discernment is this dispositionof criticism, this disposition
of accusation, and I think of itas it's really important to
have a.
I mean, andy Crouch has thisthing about relationships to
culture and he talks aboutpostures and gestures, and some
things might be a good postureand not, or a good gesture, not
(33:18):
a good posture, and that's how Ithink about criticism.
Like I think, if obviously Pauldoes it, he says you know, I
wish that you'd be accursed andcut off, which is a really
awesome double entendre with thegroup he's talking to about the
circumcision.
He's very heavily hitting themwith some very tough language,
and so does Jesus, the brood ofvipers and this kind of stuff.
(33:38):
So that is true, you need to befirm in the truth at times, for
sure, but if that's all my lifeis about, then that's I.
That's so it's a good gestureand I think it's a crummy
posture to just be a critic allthe time and what I, the posture
I want to have is.
I want to be a creator or acurator.
I want to share, I want to give, I want to make things.
(33:59):
I want to get in the arena andfight and try to do something
about.
You know, cause it's so simple,just to say I mean, we've
gotten some feedback honestlyabout the video game and it's
you know, we're doing a videogame and we're doing a book
together and it's a differentkind of video game.
It's radically hospitable tokids.
(34:20):
It doesn't have this sort ofendless addiction cycle to have
ads to, you know, to level up.
It doesn't have like chatfeatures you know to to to level
up.
It doesn't have like chatfeatures.
We made it with so muchintention, going against the way
you make money to, to try tomake something really hospitable
to kids.
So we're like fighting in thisspace and I understand people
say, oh, we don't do video games.
I understand that.
I respect that.
We don't do it that much in ourhome either.
There are lots of kids who thatcould be the only gateway for
(34:42):
them.
Shanda (34:43):
We've had some feedback about.
SD Smith (34:44):
well, you know, sort of like poking, like why would
you do this?
We're trying, you're gettingour kids and and and I just like
think, like we're trying tomake something.
Shanda (34:56):
We're we're trying to do something.
We're in.
We're in the fight.
SD Smith (34:57):
So I just like there's .
It's easy to sit on thesidelines and say, oh, you
should have thrown the ball, youshould have you should have you
know you should have taken thatstrike instead of trying to
swing, like you know, whileyou're eating your popcorn.
And you know it just like getin the game, or you know it's
hard.
It's hard in the game andyou're going to make mistakes.
And if, if, if.
Everybody's disposition is justalways like well, where were
the discernment people?
(35:18):
Where are the truth checkers?
We'll make sure everything'sright and tidy, like it's not
always going to be perfect.
You know, even the Lord waslike they're not against us,
they're for us, and like peopleare weird doing stuff.
Or even Paul said I'm rejoicingthat they're preaching, even
though it's like they're doingit for selfish gain, like
there's a little bit of a, andsometimes he's like you know
send them to hell or I get that.
I get there's a line, but anyway, that's that's sort of my think
(35:41):
, of my thought about like, Iwant to be someone who's
curating good things that's whatyou guys are doing so well and
I want to be someone who'screating good things, and so
that's my heart, and I'm notsaying that as, like you, stupid
people or critics.
That's my natural.
I need to fight that myself.
Shanda (36:03):
I fully understand what you are saying, because often,
as a parent, I think about that.
Am I just being nitpicky withmy children and just pointing
out every little thing?
Or am I truly being an advocatefor them and pointing them
towards Christ?
Because so often, like you said, I can be the one who's kind of
nitpicking and it comes from aheart of genuinely wanting them
to do right.
But is it truly helpful forthem to constantly feel this
(36:27):
pecking and just this?
James (36:28):
Yeah, are you smothering them?
Is it suffocating and all thesethings, yeah, so I appreciate
you sharing all of that.
Yeah, and I don't take anythingthat you just said as judgy or
you know.
Ah, you know boo, you know it's.
You are actually being anadvocate for those people and
for their children and it's justsuch a great reminder because
(36:51):
we absolutely I mean that wholeEverything you just said speaks
so much to me because I can bean intense person and I'm cut
out of a very driven cloth andI'm not using that as an excuse,
it's just an each at bat andyou know, does you know you
(37:22):
shouldn't have said that orwhatever.
And it's like you know, justlike I said, I know that can be
suffocating and we truly are ourchildren's advocates and need
to be and, like I said, it'sjust a great reminder and I know
that.
You know Jesus is ourintercessor, so we can always
use our Heavenly Father andJesus Christ as an example, the
(37:47):
perfect example of really how weshould be as spouses as well.
I mean it's not just aparenting thing.
I need to be your advocate andwe all need to work together.
I mean, obviously sharpens ironand you know we can improve and
it's not like you said earlier,it's not that we don't try to
(38:08):
improve and that we don't becritical at times, in the right
way and at the right times.
But if you're only that to yourchildren and to your spouse and
to those around you, you get onthe crazy cycle pretty fast
rather than be on the energizingcycle, it's just.
Shanda (38:25):
I mean.
Proverbs talks a lot about nothaving a critical spirit and
that's essentially what you'rebecoming when you're just
constantly nitpicking and it'sget that log out of your own eye
before you look at the speck inyour brothers.
SD Smith (38:39):
Well, you have these, all these gifts.
You know, james, I just thinkabout you, your capacity to sort
of both of you guys to strivefor excellence.
So that means you're going tohave high standards and that
high standards are a gift, andso I feel the same way.
Like you know, I'm going thehouse and I don't notice the 10
or 15 great things it's like oh,my son didn't take out.
Take out the trash and the shoesare right here and so it's.
(39:00):
It is so natural and so easyand I and I'm the same way, it's
just, and so I don't think itand I think it's.
It is the flip side of thosestrengths, you know we have
these.
You might have a gentle,empathetic spirit that is very
kind and thoughtful and maybeartistic and that kind of thing.
On the flip side of that, youmight struggle with anxiety or
navel gazing, that kind of thing.
(39:21):
If you're a driven, strong,excellent sort of get-after and
type A kind of thing, thenyou're going to have the
weaknesses on that side of itand it's just like bearing with
each other and that God calls usthat we have these.
That's why I love the church.
I love the church.
There's so many.
This, the church that there'sso many.
This is why my message to somany artists I hate that the
artists feel alienated from thechurch and the church feels
(39:42):
alienated from the arts.
I just hate that so muchbecause I think we need each
other so much, like the churchneeds those absolutely weird,
creative, gifted kind of peoplein that way and those people
desperately need the reality ofthe church.
They need christianity they needjesus they need the scriptures,
and so we, you know, I'll say Ineed it, and the church needs
me and needs to hear me.
So it's just like we need eachother, with those different
(40:05):
strengths and weaknesses.
James (40:06):
It's the body, the body of Christ.
Yes, I was literally thinkingthe body of Christ, as you were
talking.
Shanda (40:12):
Like are we an arm or are we a leg?
James (40:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Shanda (40:16):
No.
I love that.
I mean, you mentioned yourKickstarter, so we're going to
give you a little bit of time tomaybe kind of put a plug in for
that, because I know you'recoming out with a Helmer book
and I was telling a friend aboutit last night and she you're
going to probably laugh at thisshe said they're getting new
chickens here soon and their sonwants to name one of their hens
Helmer.
She's like you can't name agirl Helmer and he is like
(40:39):
adamant that he is naming thishen Helmer because that is his
favorite character.
So I know that everyone is veryexcited about this upcoming
book.
So if you could tell us just alittle bit more, what is it?
It's Helmer in the Dragon Tomb.
Is that what the title of thisbook is?
SD Smith (40:53):
Yeah, yes, that's the new book and Helmer, he's a
beloved character.
He's sort of the old mentor,the old crusty mentor to our
young hero in the green Emberand he becomes a really
important character as theseries goes on and a really
beloved character and it's kindof the softening of his heart.
He's kind of a replacement dadin a sense.
(41:14):
He's like you know, god is afather to the fatherless and
he's a little bit.
There's a little bit, there's alittle bit of that going on.
I think that happens in a lotof great stories.
Yeah, there's a lot of greatstories are about fatherhood and
and and I don't know.
I think that's really deep in inin the core sort of of the
universe for some reason can'tfigure out, why Just do some
(41:41):
research on that.
But so so he's that kind of acharacter and he he's a really
beloved character and heembodies a lot of like heroic
sacrifice and that kind of thing, but people don't want to let
him go and he's uh, so this ishis origin story.
So this is going back to when hewas sort of the young uh person
being mentored.
He's a farmer and he mustbecome a fighter because of what
happens, and that's what thisstory is about.
It's what the book is about andit's what the the game is as
well, and so, yeah, I'm super.
(42:02):
People love helmer and he's themost popular character probably
, and I've had heard so manypets named after helmer.
We've had, there's lots ofcharacter, green ember,
characters named for, you know,lots of chickens, lots of dogs
lots of uh any children, anychildren.
James (42:17):
Yeah, yeah, not not helmer not helmer, but but I
know of two children that havebeen named after characters in
the book Super cool, that's socool.
Shanda (42:27):
Yeah, I will definitely put like a link in the show
notes for your Kickstarter.
So if people are interested ingoing and checking that out and
supporting this new venture withthe video game.
I know I was looking at thevideo game and it looks like it
is so well done and I wasshowing it to our son and he's
really excited about it and Ijust love that it's ad free and
that you're not trying to, youknow, get money out of kids to
(42:50):
like level up and all of that.
And I just thought this is justgood, wholesome video gaming.
Because I loved games as a kid,like I played video games, um,
but video games nowadays are notlike what they used to be and I
just felt like that was justgood, wholesome fun play as a
kid.
But anymore, like some of thegames I see, and I'm like it's
just, it's all about the money,you know, um, so I basically
(43:11):
slot machines now yeah theyreally do I mean it's, it's big
companies that have spent, andthey spend sure that's what
we're
SD Smith (43:18):
against.
That's what's a little bitfrustrating to hear.
Some of the criticism is likewhy are you doing?
Like, do you understand thesort of the stakes culturally?
Like this is a, this is acultural artifact, that.
That I mean in many ways Zach,or illustrator, who works with
us.
He's an incredible guy but hewas saying, like the way opera
sort of brings up, you know youhave to have a story and
narrative, you have music, youhave set design, costume you
(43:40):
have a bunch.
You have this orchestra here.
You have, like it's, a bunch ofdifferent disciplines together.
I mean video games are a littlebit.
I mean they're like thatthere's narrative, there's music
there's incredible art there's,there's this, there's sort of
this collision of different sortof artistic fields that God has
given us, and you enter intothe narrative in this really
interesting way.
So yeah, it's the way that theymake the games now and they
(44:04):
spend billions of dollarsliterally like to market these
games because they know they arelike slot machines.
So we have to, we're trying tosort of compete, but we can't
really compete with that.
What we need is families,because that's who we want to
serve, who we're, that's who wewant to serve.
And so we've just got to kindof go around that whole
apparatus of advertising,because we got to go straight to
(44:24):
, straight to moms and dads.
Shanda (44:25):
Yeah, well, you definitely have us as an
advocate here because, uh, likeI said, our family, I mean, we
do video games sometimes andwhen we saw that, I was like
this is definitely what I wouldlove for my kids to play.
James (44:37):
yeah, yeah, and I love, you know, instead of trying to,
you know, win the game or beatthem, meaning the video game
creators at their own game.
You like broke the rules andyou're like no, I'm going to go
old school and I think it'sgreat.
SD Smith (44:52):
It is.
It's kind of a I appreciate yousaying that, because it does
feel a little bit like a, likean insurrection or like
guerrilla warfare, because we,we can't I mean they really do
spend.
So and you probably see, it onany kind of you just almost
can't avoid yeah the ads forthese games and they have, they
employ the biggest celebrities,they have so much invested in it
and we just can't that, wecan't do that and we don't want
to do that.
(45:12):
So so, yeah, it's.
It means a lot to have peoplesort of understand that, the
heart that we've poured intothese books for 10 years like a
radical, generous hospitalityand love and a commitment to
serving families, to be alliesin imagination that we're
bringing all that energy and allthat intentionality into this
(45:33):
game and it's not something thatwe're just like oh, just play
this game all your life.
No, that's nothing.
James (45:36):
We want reading.
SD Smith (45:37):
We want it to be a gateway to reading back and
forth.
We want kids to go outside andplay.
We want you know we're nottrying to we're seeing the
children as human beings made inthe image of God.
And how do we love and servethem?
And it's it's really appreciateyou guys seeing that
understanding and beingadvocates for us.
It just means the world to me.
James (45:54):
Yeah, absolutely, and if you don't mind not to sound
silly but like, could youexplain exactly what you know,
what?
So there's a book and a gameand kind of just assume that I
know nothing about it and maybeto those listeners out there
that literally don't knowanything about it, do you mind
explaining that kind ofinterface a little bit?
Thank you.
SD Smith (46:13):
That's such a great question.
I appreciate that because I'vebeen in it so deep that I can't
Right.
Yeah, it's it's a really coolum like sort of uh, uh.
It's I don't know if I don'tknow if anybody's ever done this
before it's.
It is literally the we have anew novel, sort of a new novel
featuring a character who'sreally popular, a anticipated
(46:40):
novel, and and so that novelwill be released, but that novel
has a video gamization so youcan literally just play the
story from that novel in thisvideo game and you can go back
and forth and you can sort ofenter into it at the same time.
So it's, you know, whereas amovie would come out and then,
oh, we'll make a video game, youknow, a few months later or a
year later, or something, oreven a big book property.
We're doing it at the same time.
So I think of it as this sortof like really neat, hospitable
(47:02):
sort of way to kids always playthe green ember.
So they always go back in the,in the backyard and play with
sticks and that kind of thingand they'll draw and they'll
create in that world.
And we think of this as a newway to play the green ember.
And and yeah, just like a book,it has a beginning, a middle and
an end.
It it's probably three to sixhours total time and you can, of
course, go back and, just likeyou'd go back and read a book,
(47:22):
you could go back and play itagain and again and probably
change the difficulty, settingsand that kind of thing.
But it is its own story.
It's kind of maybe comparableto the old Mario game where you
have like there's a quest andyou're trying to it's it's not,
you can't go anywhere.
Yeah, so it's got it's, it's,it's got that.
Yeah, it's, it's a story gamethe beginning, middle and the
end and it's really tied to thisand it's and people for a long
(47:45):
time wanted us to do like amovie or tv show and we've had
some opportunities with that.
We're kind of waiting for theright, right timing, right
partnerships on that, but thisis a bit of a step in that
direction, kind of like a littlebit of an opportunity to sort
of for the green ember to jumpoff the page in an exciting way
and and we're, uh, that's, Ireally want it to, I want to
work it's you know, you canimagine the you know, james, as
(48:09):
an entrepreneur.
Shanda (48:09):
Like the finances are different for a game than they
are for a book, so that's partof like we're fighting, we, we
it's a.
SD Smith (48:15):
It's a different prospect and, yeah, a little bit
hard for people understand.
So I appreciate you asking thatclarifying question.
We tied them together in theKickstarter.
They're tied together.
Some people say, well, you justwant the book.
I understand that.
We want them to be together.
It's sort of like, so you cansort of experience this in this
new way.
Shanda (48:33):
Where are you at like in your Kickstarter funding?
Are you tracking well as far aslike getting it fully funded so
far?
Yeah, are you?
SD Smith (48:39):
tracking.
Well, as far as, like, gettingit fully funded so far, yeah, I
think there's always.
You know, you probably knowthis if you're in business.
There are kind of like twostories.
Both of them are kind of true.
There is a sense in which it'sgoing really, really well.
I mean, we're a few days in andwe're reaching our.
We're getting closer toreaching our goal.
We're over halfway to our goal.
The goal is an initial goal,though you know that's a public
(49:02):
goal.
It means something.
We're trying to reach 200,000,and that would be good if we got
there.
We really need to get there forthe project's sake, but we're
way more ambitious than that andit's just like you've got to
deal with the reality of it.
It's a tough.
I think it's tough for people.
This is why this is so helpfulto talk about it, because I
(49:24):
think it is sometimes hard forpeople to understand a book.
I actually think if we justoffered the book, we'd be sort
of pretty far ahead of where weare now.
It complicates it.
It makes people think can Ithink through this?
What does that mean and and howdo I play it and stuff.
So it it's, uh, it ischallenging in a way.
But but I would just say we're,we're really ambitious and we
want to.
We want to we, because we're socommitted to these kids and
(49:47):
want to want this to be a bigway.
I mean, the game won't work, um, if we don't, you know, if we
don't like crank it up and wedon't do well with it, we won't
be able to keep doing it.
So we're, we're fighting prettyhard for for it.
I mean, that's part of thereason why we tied it to this
really popular yeah characterand release.
So, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a,it's a battle.
James (50:04):
But we're up, yeah, but it's, it's a, it's a battle
worth fighting and I reallyappreciate your transparency
with this because, like, nothinghappens for free, right, you
know, and I I love capitalismand I I like to when people are
willing to talk about it.
I think it's healthy, I thinkit's helpful because, you know,
(50:26):
I don't know, like there's justso many different sides to like
we talked about earlier.
I mean, you're an author, butthat's just one.
You know, unfortunately, youknow, maybe even a small part at
times of your business.
Unfortunately, you know, maybeeven a small part at times of
your business and the businessside, I mean, without feeding
your family and and making surethose boxes are checked, there
(50:47):
is no green number, there is noSD Smith and things like that.
So I think it's great and I Ihope you 10 exit and think big
and and do your thing and, youknow, exceed all those those
aspirations, because I mean,like all those aspirations,
because I mean, like we saidthroughout this podcast, I mean
the world needs this story andthe world needs, you know,
(51:07):
people that are advocates forthe gospel, for children, for,
just, you know, a healthy,successful life, and so I think
it's awesome.
So you have a big fan here.
SD Smith (51:18):
Thank you, james.
That means the world to me.
Honestly, that's like we don't,I don't.
We do a lot of.
I do a lot of interviews andstuff, and that's not normally a
component that comes out butit's totally real.
It's, it's, it's.
Part of it is that you thinkyou're going to get a a cool
game.
That's really.
(51:39):
Yeah, it's not.
I will agree with you.
It's not free to do that.
It's not free in time or energyor money or anything.
James (51:47):
It's a big, big amount.
Yeah, the lack of ads comes ata cost to the end user and to
you.
I mean, you're the one takingthe risk on this.
So, like I said, I think it'sawesome.
Shanda (52:00):
And even you having to volunteer your time for this
podcast just so that you canhave an opportunity to talk
about it, and stuff, too, likethere's.
There's so many factors that gointo promoting this.
James (52:09):
Well, he's getting 3 million sales.
That's going to help a lot.
I mean, that will do it all.
SD Smith (52:16):
That'll go a long way.
Actually, this is what I need todo is to be able to explain and
thank you so much for thatclarifying question and for
being able to to, just forunderstanding and for helping,
because this is what we need todo, is we need to help sort of
the audience, just to understandand just to read them.
I think there's a lot of peopleout there that are like, yeah,
I want to get behind, I want todo media in this new because
(52:38):
it's to complain about, oh,media is so bad or whatever.
But we're trying, we're doingsomething.
And there's a lot of people thatare just like yeah, I'm on
board with that, but it's justhard to reach them because
you've got to pay a trilliondollars to just get their
attention now, it's so hard.
So, so it just this helps somuch this.
You guys have been such greatallies and I'm so grateful for
that.
Shanda (52:57):
Well, we really appreciate you taking time out
of your day to do this, so couldyou definitely let our
listeners know where they canconnect with you, like what are
your social media, your website?
SD Smith (53:10):
It's all at sdsmithcom .
So just S D D for Dale.
Sdsmithcom is pretty and if youwant to go to Kickstarter and
and you know, type in greenEmber, I think you could find
our new project.
That's probably the mostpressing thing, but I think you
can find everything atsdsmithcom.
Shanda (53:26):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much forthis time.
I guess we'll wrap it upbecause we're kind of getting a
little long here, so until nexttime, we want to encourage you
(53:47):
to seek God, love your spouse,hug your kids and stay devoted.
Thank you for tuning in to thisDevoted Life podcast.
Hug your kids and stay devoted.
The show and we'd love to hearfrom you.
Be sure to hit subscribe so younever miss an episode.
To learn more about how to livea life devoted to God and
family, head over tothisdevotedlifecom.
You can also follow me, Shanda,on Instagram at devoted
(54:12):
underscore motherhood.
Thank you again for listeningand we look forward to seeing
you next time on this DevotedLife podcast.
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