May 3, 2025 • 35 mins
What happens when life changes overnight, shattering your identity through loss? In this heartfelt episode, we delve into the profound journey of Emily Tanner, known as The Brave Widow, who transformed devastating grief into a supportive community for others navigating widowhood and significant life transitions.
After losing her husband in 2021 while raising four teenagers, Emily realized how inadequate our cultural understanding of grief can be. “Platitudes like 'He's in heaven' didn’t help at all,” she reflects.
Highlights
- The identity shifts that come with widowhood and empty nesting, and the importance of intentional rebuilding.
- Emily’s four stages of rebuilding: devastation, survival mode, exploration, and creation.
- The exploration phase as a metaphorical journey through a forest—embracing curiosity amid uncertainty.
- Practical insights on how to support individuals in grief through curiosity and validation rather than quick fixes.
Key Takeaways
- Widowhood and major transitions require a complete overhaul of one's identity and purpose, prompting the need for reconstruction.
- Understanding the importance of true connection.
- The most effective way to support someone in grief is to be curious and validate their feelings instead of offering platitudes.
Emily Tanner's Bio
Just one month shy of their 20th wedding anniversary, Emily was widowed unexpectedly at the age of 37. She and Nathan have 4 children who were ages 10 - 19 at the time.
After the devastating death of her husband in 2021, Emily made the life-altering decision to leave her healthcare executive career and founded Brave Widow in 2022, an online coaching program and community dedicated to helping young widows navigate grief, heal their heart, and a build a life they love again.
Emily holds an MBA with a focus on Leadership and Ethics from John Brown University and has earned certifications in coaching and leadership from the Faith-Based Coaching Academy, the Grief Recovery Institute, and Maxwell Leadership.
Find Emily Online: LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter (X)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If someone's down in the mud, like they're just down
in it, we want to pull them up,like we want to comfort, we want
to help them, we want to pullthem up and sometimes what we
need most is someone who's justvery curious and someone that
will acknowledge, like, tell mewhat you've been experiencing,
and without judgment, withoutadvice, without any of those
(00:23):
things like just reallylistening and really being
curious about that person'sexperience and just validating
where they are and how they feel, even if you don't agree.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to this Empty Nest Life.
Join Jay Ramsden as he leadsyou on a transformative journey
through the uncharted seas ofmidlife and empty nesting.
If you're ready to embark onthis new adventure and redefine
your future, you're in the rightplace.
Here's your host, the EmptyNest Coach, Jay Ramsden.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Emily Tanner, the brave widow, thanks for being
here.
So glad to have you on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Thanks, Jay.
I'm really glad to be here andappreciate the invite.
So glad to have you on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Thanks, Jay.
I'm really glad to be here andappreciate the invite.
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to sayI'm excited to have you here and
I know like widow and exciteddon't normally go together.
But what I'm excited about isthe journey that you've been on
and I'm just like I guess offthe bat, like I'm really curious
, when your husband passed, whatwas the impetus to be like I
(01:27):
need to start the brave windowcommunity?
What did?
What did that look like?
What was that journey like foryou?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
that's a great question, yeah and um.
It is weird sometimes to beexcited and talking about
widowhood, and I always likepeople's expressions when I say
I can talk about grief and deathand all those things like all
day.
I just love it.
We don't love it in thebeginning, but it's been such an
interesting journey.
(01:53):
But my husband died in July of2021.
We had four teenagers.
They were all teenagers at thetime and shortly after he died,
within a couple of months, I,for my workplace people just
started reaching out.
There were other young widowswho were losing their husbands
(02:16):
and people wanted to know, like,how do I help them?
What do I do?
What do I say?
And I really it just tugged atmy heart, this drive of I have
to help other people, becausepeople would give you platitudes
and say, oh, he's in heaven andthat's where God wants him.
And, as a widow, that doesn'thelp you at all.
(02:39):
But also, culturally, we're noteducated on grief and we don't
know what to say and we don'tknow what to do.
And so I just started creatingchecklists, I started creating
posts to share on social mediaand I just got a lot of positive
feedback that people felt or insearching for someone that
could help through grief.
(02:59):
It really just didn't seem likethere were a ton of options out
there.
So ultimately I felt just thisreally strong desire to help
other people and to create acommunity and an environment of
(03:23):
what I wanted when I was goingthrough it at the time.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yeah, and I think that's a great like kind of
journey story and so important,Emily, because I see it a lot
with my empty nesters and that'swhy I'm excited that you're
here so so often.
I'll get, I'll post something.
And then somebody will say,well, try, empty nesting and
losing your spouse or partner atthe same time or within a year
(03:46):
or two of each other, and it'slike a double whammy worth of
grief.
In that moment and I think wetalked a little bit about this
when I was on your show is likegrief is grief right, and
there's different layers to itdepending on what you're going
through.
And when it hits double, it'slike whoa right.
It's like not only did I losemy partner's spouse, but now the
(04:09):
kids are starting to move on itand I'm, to an extent, losing
them as well.
What kind of advice orinformation could you share
about people who are goingthrough the double.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, I think what's so interesting is when we lose
our spouse and when we lose youknow, quote unquote lose our
kids, because they're movingupwards and onwards we don't
often expect how much it's goingto change our identity and our
(04:41):
sense of meaning and purpose,our identity and our sense of
meaning and purpose, and we canhave this loss of well, now what
am I supposed to do?
Because my job was to be a wifeor a mom or you know, I did all
these things like.
That was my purpose, that'swhat I was here for, and now I
don't feel like either one ofthose things.
(05:01):
So what I often try to describeto people is and there's a
beautiful way that Dr JohnDeloney talks about grief and
loss is that the life that youhad before is really in ashes.
Now it's over, it's gone, butthat doesn't mean that something
(05:23):
beautiful can't come next.
It's just that we have tochoose to build something
different and to build a newlife and to find other things
that fulfill our purpose.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Yeah, I love that piece, but you had mentioned
earlier kind of like theidentity right, the identity of
being a mom or a dad or ahusband or a wife or a partner,
and then when we get so wrappedup in that and it disappears
literally overnight.
That's, I think, what peoplestruggle with the most right,
(05:58):
and I would imagine you see thesame thing with the widows that
you help.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, that's one of the core things that I really
focus on is that emotionalhealing and processing grief is
really just foundational.
Whereas there are a lot ofprograms, that that's the soul
and key focus and it's very muchneeded.
But as we look at the rest ofour life, most of the time the
(06:24):
people that I work with, theycome to me and they're like OK,
I did the emotional healing, Ihave processed my grief, but now
what Like is this?
It Is this, what am I now?
What do I do now?
Emotional and the grief and theloss is really the foundation
(06:45):
of building this new identityand creating this next version
of who you want to become andwhat you want your life to look
like.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yeah, and I think that's why I like, I'm so drawn
to your message because it'ssimilar to the message that I
have is like it's a lifetransition that happens in a
moment that I have is like it'sa life transition that happens
in a moment, right, your partner, your spouse, passes away, and
it is a moment in time and thenthe question is like, okay, now
(07:14):
what?
And the same thing with whenthe kids go to empty nesting and
I was talking to other peoplerecently, like the fires in LA,
it's another life transition ina moment, now what, right.
And so when we have these nowwhat moments in life?
It isn't necessarily.
It is right Process the griefand the loss and the pain and
the emotions in the moment, butthen what's the next stage?
Like, what's the next step?
(07:34):
How do you help widows throughthat?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah.
So really I walked them throughwhat I call four stages of
widowhood, which could also befour stages of just creating
this next part of your life,which is you've gone through
this period of devastation.
Then you move through this stageof like you're in survival mode
and you're in a new routine,but it's not great, you're not
(08:01):
excited about it, it's just whatit is.
And so then I start to work withwidows and to help people,
start to explore what life couldbe, and I think about it like
we're walking through this pathin a forest and we can't see
very far ahead and we don't knowwhat's on the other side, like
(08:24):
who am I, what do I like, whatdo I think I might like doing,
and so, similar to a toddler,we're trying new things and it's
awkward and it's weird, and wejust do it anyway, and we form
new relationships with peopleand we start sorting what this
life could be and really gainingclarity on what we want for our
(08:46):
future.
And the final stage is aroundcreating that, or you want to
think about it as manifesting itor bringing it forward into
your life.
Of what kind of life do youwant to have?
What do you want more of inyour life and how can you start
tapping into that?
How can you start engaging inthose activities now to bring
(09:09):
that forward faster?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, what's?
What would most of the peoplethat you work with say Like?
What do they want more of?
Is there like a generic, or isit all over the place for your
folks?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Oh, that's a really good question.
I think most people wantconnection, someone, and a lot
of the positives of learning,because we teach emotional
intelligence, I teach attachmentstyles and communication.
And it's a double-edged swordbecause on one hand, you learn a
(09:43):
lot, you're elevated in how youcommunicate with other people.
Having gone through grief andloss, you understand others as
they're going through that muchbetter, you can show up more,
and on the other side, it kindof feels like you're leaving
family and friends behind.
Maybe they haven't had a greatrelationship with you, maybe,
(10:05):
like one widow I talked toearlier today, she's had years
of family dysfunction and justthought that's the way it's
supposed to be.
So people learn boundaries andthey learn healthy relationships
and communication, which iswonderful on one hand and also
difficult.
So what most widows are cravingis someone who sees them, who
(10:28):
hears them, who wants tounderstand, like who they are
and how they think, and justhave that deeper sense of
meaning and connection now thattheir literal other half is no
longer here.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, and I know a lot, of, a lot of people that
you do work with find that init's in your brave little
community, right.
They find that connection, thatbelonging, that understanding.
How do they parlay that intolife at home?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So one of the things that we have fun teaching is how
to meet new people and makefriends.
So I just teach them differentstrategies and things that I've
used and other widows have used.
Even if, like, I'm an introvert, I'm a homebody, I don't really
care for a lot of small talk.
(11:19):
I had to learn how to embracethat.
I didn't always know what tosay, so I teach people you know,
when you whether you go to aconference or a local meetup or
you want to be that, that personthat awkwardly ask someone else
if they want to go out forlunch like how to put themselves
out there to start eithernurturing existing relationships
(11:43):
or meeting new people andbuilding up those relationships
over time.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, so good.
I had somebody share recentlywith me about just making
friends, right, or friends whenyou're older, and I think it
applies here too, and there werethree keys to that and it was
the same time.
I think it was Mel Robbins.
He shared Mel Robbins, but Melwas talking about it from her
book Let them, and it was a onthe same timeline, like you're
(12:12):
in the same spot in life, andthen the next one is the same
energy, right.
And then finally, it is likeproximity, like who's close to
you?
So is there a way that youteach your widows to kind of
find that for themselves?
Like I guess the proximity partis what I think of most is like
(12:34):
OK, how can I connect withother widows locally?
Or what does that look like?
Or I don't know if it'sbranched out for you and your
membership, where people arelike oh, I'm here, I'm here, I'm
here, what does that look like?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
here.
What does that look like?
So one of the we actually justwent through this exercise a
couple of weeks ago with a groupof I have them just identify,
you know who are existing familymembers that they might want to
rekindle or nurture arelationship with, again
Existing friends that they'vehad in the past that haven't
really been there for them, butwe want to try to see if we can
(13:12):
reconnect and nurture thatrelationship.
I encourage them to go towhether it's widows groups or
grief groups, but someone whounderstands kind of that one
point you made about, likethey're in the same season of
life or they're on the samejourney, someone where I don't
(13:32):
really have to spend a lot oftime explaining what it means to
have lost a loved one, but wealready kind of know.
I just get to talk about it.
And then I encourage them todevelop friendships of people
who haven't known them in thepast, who aren't expecting them
to go back to the way they quoteunquote were, but who have
(13:54):
shared interests or hobbies orgoals that they have, whether
it's a pickleball group or areal estate investing group or,
you know, a women's group, likewhatever.
That shared interest or goal isthat they start spending time
to that proximity principle alittle bit more with those folks
so that they have a really good, well-rounded support system of
(14:18):
people around them that theycan connect with on different
occasions.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yeah, that's so good and I think it's true for empty
nesters too.
Right, if you're going throughthat and you're going through
widowhood or widowerhood, right,that it is like take those
steps and implement them to tryand find folks that are close by
that can support you, because Ithink support is the biggest
piece that sometimes folks aremissing.
(14:44):
We talked about the one widowwho just thought that's how life
operated, with family dynamics,and that's not always the case
and it can always change.
You can always choose otherfamily.
That's not blood to find.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, that's true.
Who's an empty nester?
You probably get all kinds offeedback from people of like, oh
, you should be happy, this isthe best time of your life, and
you're just thinking to yourselfthis is not helping me.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
So true, so true it's .
I think that's like a goodsegue is like how do we talk to
people, whether it's emptynesting or whether it's someone
who's lost a partner or spouseand then I saw a post recently
to get about the LA fires.
Like how do you talk tosomebody who's lost everything
in their home?
Right, it's not like you'regoing to be great or you'll find
(15:38):
someone new, or you know well,are you kidding me?
Like empty nesting?
This should be the best time ofyour life.
You have no responsibilities.
Like for the people who don'tget it and if you're listening,
maybe you get it right, becausethat's why you listen to this
show.
But if you want to pass it on,like what are some things people
could say to someone who'snewly widowed or a new widower
(16:00):
that can help, that aren'tbeyond, like it'll be okay.
Or you know people are lookingout for you like what are some
key words that they could use?
Speaker 1 (16:08):
yeah, and I um, I get this question a lot and I will
say tongue-in-cheek likesometimes the best thing you can
say is just to listen and, um,there is nothing that people can
say to take away the pain, tomake someone feel better, to
(16:31):
pull, like Simon Sinek sometimesthinks about this.
Like if someone's down in themud, like they're just down in
it, we want to pull them up.
Like we want to comfort, wewant to help them, we want to
pull them up and sometimes whatwe need most is someone who's
just very curious and someonethat will acknowledge like this
(16:53):
is a bad thing that happened, orthis is a hard time, or I can't
really imagine what you feel.
Like.
What is it like?
Like tell me, tell me whatyou've been experiencing, and
without judgment, without advice, without any of those things,
like just really listening andreally being curious about that
(17:15):
person's experience and justvalidating where they are and
how they feel, even if you don'tagree, like, oh well, you
should be happy you don't havekids at home.
But if someone's expressinglike this is a really hard time
for me just saying like, oh,that has to be really hard.
Like, tell me about it.
Like tell me how hard it's been.
Just acknowledging their painor their hurt or where they are
(17:41):
can go such a long way.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, and I love that you brought up Simon Sinek.
I think Brené Brown sayssomething similar.
It's just to be like, yeah,that sucks Right, and I'm here
for you.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Whatever you need to, even to sit and listen or say
nothing at all, just be in aroom together, right, no words
need to be spoken.
I think that's sometimes thegreatest support there is, where
you can trust that nobody'sgoing to say anything or try to
fix it for you.
And so I love that piece aboutthe mud.
It's like sometimes you justgot to get in the mud with your
(18:14):
friends or your close ones.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, and it can be awkward and uncomfortable and
weird and we don't like which isawkward, like it's against our
(18:37):
nature, especially for maternalpeople, because when we do that,
it stops them from expressingand processing what it is that
they're feeling.
And so, as awkward and weird asit can feel at times, just
allow like leaning into that andletting that person cry and
(18:57):
letting that person be in theirsorrow and just allowing them to
know like hey, I'm right herewith you.
You don't have to go throughthis alone.
As long as it takes, I'm goingto keep showing up.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah, I love that.
The imagery that popped in mymind is when someone's coughing
and you encourage them to keepcoughing right, it's like that's
how you process that particularthing and it's the same with
our emotions.
It's like I always believe likeall feelings are valid and to
show them is the way that weprocess through them, right, and
I love that you brought that up.
(19:32):
I think it's important forfolks who aren't going through
it, but maybe have a partnerspouse or a friend sorry who
have lost a partner spouse orwho are empty nesting or
whatever it may be, is just tostep back and be like I'm just
here.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, definitely, and there was a statistic I read
that I want to say widows lose75% of their social circle in
the first year.
Most widows I know wouldprobably say it's more like 95%
instead of 75.
But people, for whatever reasonI don't know if empty nesters
(20:07):
have the same challenge, butit's like as you're going
through this season of your life, we become very internal, we
focus inward.
Our world has stopped.
We don't really reach out toother friends because we don't
have the bandwidth to do that at, but then people just disappear
(20:33):
, and the people who we thoughtthe most would be there and
would keep showing up oftenaren't.
And so just continuing to showup, continuing to reach out,
that's, I think, one of the bestthings that people can do.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, no, I love that .
And you know, we in my friend,like my close friend circle, I
had one of my friends lose hiswife, someone that we went to
the beach with every year.
This was like almost five yearsago now, but one of the things
that kind of I worked on with myother friends was to be like,
okay, this is happening, right,check, check on it.
(21:04):
Like this is your week to check, this is your week to check.
That Like just let's make apurpose of like checking in and
not to let that like disappear,right, and let's even just
reinforce that throughout time.
And so, even when something newcomes up now, five or six years
later, it was he had to giveback a foster dog.
(21:25):
His daughter had just graduatedand was moving away, and there
was, um, it was also the timelike the week of the anniversary
of the passing of his wife, andso I just texted my friends and
was like, hey, just want you toknow these three things are
happening.
It may seem insignificant inindividual pieces, but all three
of them together just send atext, just check on them, and so
(21:47):
I think that's so important forpeople to know.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
It's like that's how you can actually keep somebody
you know from getting lost inthe shuffle absolutely, and
those like the anniversary ofhis wife, um, those are dates
that most people don't think totrack or remember or put on
their calendar, but but to thatperson it's a lot.
(22:10):
So I'm sure he's very blessedto have you and your friends as
support around him.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, and I don't share it to be like, oh, this is
something.
It's more like hey, people,this is something you need to do
for your friends in their lives, right, this is how you show up
as a friend in a time of needforever, right, it's such an
important thing to support.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, I totally agree .
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Ellie, I'm curious, like what's one thing you have
learned about yourself in thisjourney?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Oh, so much.
Maybe she has more than one,okay, so I think it's.
I have learned, and you know asa coach, how important our
thoughts are and how ourthoughts drive our feelings and
drive our actions and all ofthese things, and so it has been
(23:04):
so interesting for me to justevaluate, like, what are the
core thoughts that I've hadthroughout my life?
What have the themes been?
Why am I thinking that?
What you know, what's behindthat?
Just getting curious about whatare some of the things that I
(23:24):
tend to default to or my brainlikes to feed me?
You know, like you know, I'mafraid of letting people down or
I'm afraid it's not going to begood enough, or I have this
insane internal desire that Iwant people to be proud, like I
want people to be proud, like Iwant you to be proud, I'm a
guest on your show.
I want my husband now to beproud that I'm his wife.
(23:45):
And so just peeling back, Ithink, some of those layers and
figuring out, okay, what drivesthat and what does?
Where does that come from andhow is that influencing, you
know, my ability or my tendencyto want to people, please, and
how can I develop healthyboundaries in keeping myself
(24:08):
from feeling resentful and burntout when I want to give and
give, and give, and give andgive, and then I resent people
because I feel like I'm beingtaken advantage of, when really
it's myself and my tendency towant to overcommit or to make
someone happy or you know, justlearning what my tendencies have
(24:30):
been and where that comes fromhas been one of the biggest
things I think I've learnedabout myself.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
I love that in that you're self-aware about what it
is that may or may be drivingyou and driving your actions.
How do you use thatself-awareness in your work with
widows?
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah.
So I have worked very hard toconstrain, for example, my
calendar, or to constrain likeI'm a teacher and I love to
teach all the topics and I loveto teach as much as I can about
everything, and so I really haveto coach myself on not doing
that.
So, for example, when I startedBrave Widow, I wanted clients
(25:13):
and so I would bend overbackwards to be available or to
do evening calls, or hadsomebody that wanted to meet on
the weekends, and because Iwanted them to be happy and
because I wanted to be a peeraccommodating, you know, I would
agree to those things and I dida lot of classes in the
evenings and things like that.
(25:34):
But ultimately what wouldhappen is, you know, I had four
teenagers, three still at home,and we have bunches of
activities that happen in theevenings and on the weekends and
I just felt this frustration of, well, I have to teach classes
in the evenings and I have to dothis and I have to do that.
(25:56):
So over time I really just gotto where I would constrain my
calendar and say, look, this ismy availability.
You know, I'm sorry if thatdoesn't work for you, this is
what I have that works for me.
It may not make everyone happy,but most people figure it out.
They figure out how to make itwork Right and it just allows me
to show up with for my kids ina very focused way.
(26:19):
It allows me to show up for myclients in a way where I don't
feel resentful, like I have tobe on this call with you now but
to be like, yes, I'm so excitedto be here.
So a lot for me has been aboutconstraining my time.
Even response time to peoplewho reach out, not feeling like
I have to respond right awaybecause I have this level of
(26:41):
urgency, I think has helped mejust feel really good about how
and where I show up and how I'mdividing my time.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah, I get that too.
It's the same like when we'recoaches.
As coaches, we want to helppeople and we want to be
available to help people all ofthe time, and you know we we
want to be available to helppeople all of the time, and you
know, we've got to be able tobalance our lives with that too,
and so I appreciate you sharingthat for sure.
It's like how do you balancelife Right?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
And how do you not?
Sometimes I realize I bringthings on myself.
So if I respond to a lot ofemails or I use Voxer a lot for
messaging, you know, if I'mresponding to those things on
evenings and weekends and when Inormally wouldn't check them,
am I teaching people like, oh,this is the time that you should
(27:35):
reach out and message me,because that's when you'll get a
response, versus like OK, well,let's wait until a time where I
have it scheduled.
I know I can be consistent atresponding at that time and then
I don't have to feel like I'malways on, like I can have a
time where I'm like OK, I'mfocusing on something else now,
I'm taking a break, and itcreates just a little more
(27:57):
consistency in my life.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Yeah, thinking of boundaries like what's like the
number one boundary that widowsneed to learn, is there one?
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Well, there's many, actually a lot of widows are
struggle with people pleasingand struggle with boundaries,
with the.
It's really to me theexpectations they put on
themselves.
Well, I should be able to dothis, I should be able to mow my
(28:29):
lawn and I should be able tofigure out all the passwords to
all the websites and I should beable to do my laundry.
Like, how hard is it to dolaundry?
But when you're in such deepgrief and you're going through
all the red tape of notifyingall the people, getting car
titles changed over and all ofthat, the expectations you have
(28:53):
on yourself should besignificantly lower than what
you're normally used to beingable to do.
And so I think sometimes thatone of the biggest boundaries is
that widows are resistant toasking for help and to being
clear about like hey, could youcome wash dishes for me?
(29:13):
Could you mow the lawn, couldyou have someone do this?
And so they don't have aboundary with what they expect
of themselves and therefore it'sreally difficult for them to
ask for help or to communicatewhat it is they need.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Yeah, it's like stop stop shooting on yourself, right
, like yes exactly.
To paraphrase Right, but right,you can.
I can see where your mind wentwith that and it was purposeful.
Like, yeah, stop shitting onyourself.
Like should this, should that?
It's like it doesn't help?
Right, it just layers on.
But how do you teach people toask for help?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yes, I have a whole course on that, and where we
start is actually have acomprehensive list that people
can use to even know what to askfor help with, Because in the
early days you're like I don'teven know.
I don't even know what I need.
I'm just surviving day by day.
So we start by saying likehere's a detailed list of all
(30:12):
the things you could ask forhelp with, and either you can
check the it's a literalchecklist you can check the
boxes to say I need help withthese things, or you can give
that list to family and friendsand say please let me know what
you would be able and willing todo.
Here we teach widows how tomake you know specific requests
(30:34):
like hey, I really need to getmy lawn mowed by next Saturday.
Could anyone do it between nowand then?
So just being able to vocalizewhat they need help with, or if
they're really uncomfortablewith that, then either assigning
someone to be like a personalliaison who will help coordinate
(30:54):
help for them.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
So good.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Or to even ask people like for recommendations, like,
oh hey, do you know someone whocould help with some house
cleaning?
Do you know someone who couldhelp with X, y or Z?
And sometimes people you know,oh, this light switch isn't
working in my kitchen, do youknow someone who could help with
that?
And a lot of times people willbe like, oh, I could do that, or
(31:17):
my brother could do that, or itkind of spurs people to want to
be able to help.
But if we don't vocalize withsome specificity what it is that
we need, then people don't knowhow to show up for us.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah, the specificity part right.
It's like there's this openlist of things and if you don't
purposefully say X, y or Z,people are just going to leave
it up to guessing.
Right.
And I see that happen a lotwith other things in life, where
you know maybe there might bean instance and you know
somebody wants to start a mealtrain for somebody and the next
thing you know your freezer isfull of like 30 different
(31:56):
casseroles.
Is that what you really neededin the moment?
But no, people didn't know howto help any other way.
So unless you ask for it, theydon't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, yeah.
And my number one tip because Iget this question a lot too is
like okay, what should we giveyou know to somebody who's
grieving or going through a hardtime?
Is like disposable everything.
Disposable silver, silverware,plates, napkins, paper towels,
like anything they don't have towash, take care of.
They could just throw it away.
That helps make their life alittle bit easier.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, that's a great tip to such a great tip.
Before I let you go, tell mewhat your life motto is, now
that you've gone through thisjourney.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Oh, my life motto as I've gone through this journey
is that currently, what I wouldsay it is is how can this be
true?
Which is kind of a weird mottoto think about, but I have found
myself at so many times where Ijust thought something was
(32:57):
really impossible and in grief.
A lot of times we tend to thinkvery either, or like either I
loved my late husband, I lovedthe life I had before, or I love
the life I have now.
We have a really hard timewrapping our minds around that
two things can feel opposite,but true.
(33:19):
And so even if it's somethinglike I have 10 things I need to
get done on my calendar todayand I start feeling really
overwhelmed, like there's justnot enough time.
There's literally physicallynot enough time to get all of
this done.
And once I stop and say OK, howcould it be true that I can
have enough time to get all ofthis done and suddenly,
(33:42):
magically, I come up with asolution.
So that has been kind of mymantra and my motto is for
things that feel impossible, howcould it be true?
Because I have come up with themost interesting solutions at
times, but making thingspossible that feel so impossible
.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yeah, how could it be true?
That's where that curiositypiece comes in, and I think
that's such an important lifelesson for people to embrace too
is no matter what has happenedin your life, whether you're an
empty nester, whether you're awidow or whatever it may be.
Whatever life transition you'refacing is how can you be
curious about what's next andhow to help yourself through
(34:21):
this?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah definitely.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Thank you so much for being here, Emily.
I really enjoyed having you onthe show.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Well, thank you so much for the invite and thank
you for coming on my show aswell.
I you're always full of greatinsight and value.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
So, thank you, thank you.
Where can people find you ifthey want to connect with you?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah, they can go to bravewidowcom and there's a
contact me link there and I'malso really active on Instagram
at brave underscore widow.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Excellent, awesome.
Put it in the show notes andpeople want to reach out to you.
Don't know where to find you.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
All right, thank you.
Thank you.
Don't know where to find you.
All right.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Are you ready to start livingand enjoying your empty nest
years?
If so, head over tojasonramsdencom and click work
with me to get the conversationstarted.
This empty nest life is aproduction of Impact.
(35:21):
One Media LLC.
All rights reserved.
If someone's down in the mud, like they're just down
in it, we want to pull them up,like we want to comfort, we want
to help them, we want to pullthem up and sometimes what we
need most is someone who's justvery curious and someone that
will acknowledge, like, tell mewhat you've been experiencing,
and without judgment, withoutadvice, without any of those
(00:23):
things like just reallylistening and really being
curious about that person'sexperience and just validating
where they are and how they feel, even if you don't agree.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to this Empty Nest Life.
Join Jay Ramsden as he leadsyou on a transformative journey
through the uncharted seas ofmidlife and empty nesting.
If you're ready to embark onthis new adventure and redefine
your future, you're in the rightplace.
Here's your host, the EmptyNest Coach, Jay Ramsden.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Emily Tanner, the brave widow, thanks for being
here.
So glad to have you on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Thanks, Jay.
I'm really glad to be here andappreciate the invite.
So glad to have you on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Thanks, Jay.
I'm really glad to be here andappreciate the invite.
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to sayI'm excited to have you here and
I know like widow and exciteddon't normally go together.
But what I'm excited about isthe journey that you've been on
and I'm just like I guess offthe bat, like I'm really curious
, when your husband passed, whatwas the impetus to be like I
(01:27):
need to start the brave windowcommunity?
What did?
What did that look like?
What was that journey like foryou?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
that's a great question, yeah and um.
It is weird sometimes to beexcited and talking about
widowhood, and I always likepeople's expressions when I say
I can talk about grief and deathand all those things like all
day.
I just love it.
We don't love it in thebeginning, but it's been such an
interesting journey.
(01:53):
But my husband died in July of2021.
We had four teenagers.
They were all teenagers at thetime and shortly after he died,
within a couple of months, I,for my workplace people just
started reaching out.
There were other young widowswho were losing their husbands
(02:16):
and people wanted to know, like,how do I help them?
What do I do?
What do I say?
And I really it just tugged atmy heart, this drive of I have
to help other people, becausepeople would give you platitudes
and say, oh, he's in heaven andthat's where God wants him.
And, as a widow, that doesn'thelp you at all.
(02:39):
But also, culturally, we're noteducated on grief and we don't
know what to say and we don'tknow what to do.
And so I just started creatingchecklists, I started creating
posts to share on social mediaand I just got a lot of positive
feedback that people felt or insearching for someone that
could help through grief.
(02:59):
It really just didn't seem likethere were a ton of options out
there.
So ultimately I felt just thisreally strong desire to help
other people and to create acommunity and an environment of
(03:23):
what I wanted when I was goingthrough it at the time.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yeah, and I think that's a great like kind of
journey story and so important,Emily, because I see it a lot
with my empty nesters and that'swhy I'm excited that you're
here so so often.
I'll get, I'll post something.
And then somebody will say,well, try, empty nesting and
losing your spouse or partner atthe same time or within a year
(03:46):
or two of each other, and it'slike a double whammy worth of
grief.
In that moment and I think wetalked a little bit about this
when I was on your show is likegrief is grief right, and
there's different layers to itdepending on what you're going
through.
And when it hits double, it'slike whoa right.
It's like not only did I losemy partner's spouse, but now the
(04:09):
kids are starting to move on itand I'm, to an extent, losing
them as well.
What kind of advice orinformation could you share
about people who are goingthrough the double.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, I think what's so interesting is when we lose
our spouse and when we lose youknow, quote unquote lose our
kids, because they're movingupwards and onwards we don't
often expect how much it's goingto change our identity and our
(04:41):
sense of meaning and purpose,our identity and our sense of
meaning and purpose, and we canhave this loss of well, now what
am I supposed to do?
Because my job was to be a wifeor a mom or you know, I did all
these things like.
That was my purpose, that'swhat I was here for, and now I
don't feel like either one ofthose things.
(05:01):
So what I often try to describeto people is and there's a
beautiful way that Dr JohnDeloney talks about grief and
loss is that the life that youhad before is really in ashes.
Now it's over, it's gone, butthat doesn't mean that something
(05:23):
beautiful can't come next.
It's just that we have tochoose to build something
different and to build a newlife and to find other things
that fulfill our purpose.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Yeah, I love that piece, but you had mentioned
earlier kind of like theidentity right, the identity of
being a mom or a dad or ahusband or a wife or a partner,
and then when we get so wrappedup in that and it disappears
literally overnight.
That's, I think, what peoplestruggle with the most right,
(05:58):
and I would imagine you see thesame thing with the widows that
you help.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, that's one of the core things that I really
focus on is that emotionalhealing and processing grief is
really just foundational.
Whereas there are a lot ofprograms, that that's the soul
and key focus and it's very muchneeded.
But as we look at the rest ofour life, most of the time the
(06:24):
people that I work with, theycome to me and they're like OK,
I did the emotional healing, Ihave processed my grief, but now
what Like is this?
It Is this, what am I now?
What do I do now?
Emotional and the grief and theloss is really the foundation
(06:45):
of building this new identityand creating this next version
of who you want to become andwhat you want your life to look
like.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yeah, and I think that's why I like, I'm so drawn
to your message because it'ssimilar to the message that I
have is like it's a lifetransition that happens in a
moment that I have is like it'sa life transition that happens
in a moment, right, your partner, your spouse, passes away, and
it is a moment in time and thenthe question is like, okay, now
(07:14):
what?
And the same thing with whenthe kids go to empty nesting and
I was talking to other peoplerecently, like the fires in LA,
it's another life transition ina moment, now what, right.
And so when we have these nowwhat moments in life?
It isn't necessarily.
It is right Process the griefand the loss and the pain and
the emotions in the moment, butthen what's the next stage?
Like, what's the next step?
(07:34):
How do you help widows throughthat?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah.
So really I walked them throughwhat I call four stages of
widowhood, which could also befour stages of just creating
this next part of your life,which is you've gone through
this period of devastation.
Then you move through this stageof like you're in survival mode
and you're in a new routine,but it's not great, you're not
(08:01):
excited about it, it's just whatit is.
And so then I start to work withwidows and to help people,
start to explore what life couldbe, and I think about it like
we're walking through this pathin a forest and we can't see
very far ahead and we don't knowwhat's on the other side, like
(08:24):
who am I, what do I like, whatdo I think I might like doing,
and so, similar to a toddler,we're trying new things and it's
awkward and it's weird, and wejust do it anyway, and we form
new relationships with peopleand we start sorting what this
life could be and really gainingclarity on what we want for our
(08:46):
future.
And the final stage is aroundcreating that, or you want to
think about it as manifesting itor bringing it forward into
your life.
Of what kind of life do youwant to have?
What do you want more of inyour life and how can you start
tapping into that?
How can you start engaging inthose activities now to bring
(09:09):
that forward faster?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, what's?
What would most of the peoplethat you work with say Like?
What do they want more of?
Is there like a generic, or isit all over the place for your
folks?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Oh, that's a really good question.
I think most people wantconnection, someone, and a lot
of the positives of learning,because we teach emotional
intelligence, I teach attachmentstyles and communication.
And it's a double-edged swordbecause on one hand, you learn a
(09:43):
lot, you're elevated in how youcommunicate with other people.
Having gone through grief andloss, you understand others as
they're going through that muchbetter, you can show up more,
and on the other side, it kindof feels like you're leaving
family and friends behind.
Maybe they haven't had a greatrelationship with you, maybe,
(10:05):
like one widow I talked toearlier today, she's had years
of family dysfunction and justthought that's the way it's
supposed to be.
So people learn boundaries andthey learn healthy relationships
and communication, which iswonderful on one hand and also
difficult.
So what most widows are cravingis someone who sees them, who
(10:28):
hears them, who wants tounderstand, like who they are
and how they think, and justhave that deeper sense of
meaning and connection now thattheir literal other half is no
longer here.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, and I know a lot, of, a lot of people that
you do work with find that init's in your brave little
community, right.
They find that connection, thatbelonging, that understanding.
How do they parlay that intolife at home?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So one of the things that we have fun teaching is how
to meet new people and makefriends.
So I just teach them differentstrategies and things that I've
used and other widows have used.
Even if, like, I'm an introvert, I'm a homebody, I don't really
care for a lot of small talk.
(11:19):
I had to learn how to embracethat.
I didn't always know what tosay, so I teach people you know,
when you whether you go to aconference or a local meetup or
you want to be that, that personthat awkwardly ask someone else
if they want to go out forlunch like how to put themselves
out there to start eithernurturing existing relationships
(11:43):
or meeting new people andbuilding up those relationships
over time.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, so good.
I had somebody share recentlywith me about just making
friends, right, or friends whenyou're older, and I think it
applies here too, and there werethree keys to that and it was
the same time.
I think it was Mel Robbins.
He shared Mel Robbins, but Melwas talking about it from her
book Let them, and it was a onthe same timeline, like you're
(12:12):
in the same spot in life, andthen the next one is the same
energy, right.
And then finally, it is likeproximity, like who's close to
you?
So is there a way that youteach your widows to kind of
find that for themselves?
Like I guess the proximity partis what I think of most is like
(12:34):
OK, how can I connect withother widows locally?
Or what does that look like?
Or I don't know if it'sbranched out for you and your
membership, where people arelike oh, I'm here, I'm here, I'm
here, what does that look like?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
here.
What does that look like?
So one of the we actually justwent through this exercise a
couple of weeks ago with a groupof I have them just identify,
you know who are existing familymembers that they might want to
rekindle or nurture arelationship with, again
Existing friends that they'vehad in the past that haven't
really been there for them, butwe want to try to see if we can
(13:12):
reconnect and nurture thatrelationship.
I encourage them to go towhether it's widows groups or
grief groups, but someone whounderstands kind of that one
point you made about, likethey're in the same season of
life or they're on the samejourney, someone where I don't
(13:32):
really have to spend a lot oftime explaining what it means to
have lost a loved one, but wealready kind of know.
I just get to talk about it.
And then I encourage them todevelop friendships of people
who haven't known them in thepast, who aren't expecting them
to go back to the way they quoteunquote were, but who have
(13:54):
shared interests or hobbies orgoals that they have, whether
it's a pickleball group or areal estate investing group or,
you know, a women's group, likewhatever.
That shared interest or goal isthat they start spending time
to that proximity principle alittle bit more with those folks
so that they have a really good, well-rounded support system of
(14:18):
people around them that theycan connect with on different
occasions.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yeah, that's so good and I think it's true for empty
nesters too.
Right, if you're going throughthat and you're going through
widowhood or widowerhood, right,that it is like take those
steps and implement them to tryand find folks that are close by
that can support you, because Ithink support is the biggest
piece that sometimes folks aremissing.
(14:44):
We talked about the one widowwho just thought that's how life
operated, with family dynamics,and that's not always the case
and it can always change.
You can always choose otherfamily.
That's not blood to find.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, that's true.
Who's an empty nester?
You probably get all kinds offeedback from people of like, oh
, you should be happy, this isthe best time of your life, and
you're just thinking to yourselfthis is not helping me.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
So true, so true it's .
I think that's like a goodsegue is like how do we talk to
people, whether it's emptynesting or whether it's someone
who's lost a partner or spouseand then I saw a post recently
to get about the LA fires.
Like how do you talk tosomebody who's lost everything
in their home?
Right, it's not like you'regoing to be great or you'll find
(15:38):
someone new, or you know well,are you kidding me?
Like empty nesting?
This should be the best time ofyour life.
You have no responsibilities.
Like for the people who don'tget it and if you're listening,
maybe you get it right, becausethat's why you listen to this
show.
But if you want to pass it on,like what are some things people
could say to someone who'snewly widowed or a new widower
(16:00):
that can help, that aren'tbeyond, like it'll be okay.
Or you know people are lookingout for you like what are some
key words that they could use?
Speaker 1 (16:08):
yeah, and I um, I get this question a lot and I will
say tongue-in-cheek likesometimes the best thing you can
say is just to listen and, um,there is nothing that people can
say to take away the pain, tomake someone feel better, to
(16:31):
pull, like Simon Sinek sometimesthinks about this.
Like if someone's down in themud, like they're just down in
it, we want to pull them up.
Like we want to comfort, wewant to help them, we want to
pull them up and sometimes whatwe need most is someone who's
just very curious and someonethat will acknowledge like this
(16:53):
is a bad thing that happened, orthis is a hard time, or I can't
really imagine what you feel.
Like.
What is it like?
Like tell me, tell me whatyou've been experiencing, and
without judgment, without advice, without any of those things,
like just really listening andreally being curious about that
(17:15):
person's experience and justvalidating where they are and
how they feel, even if you don'tagree, like, oh well, you
should be happy you don't havekids at home.
But if someone's expressinglike this is a really hard time
for me just saying like, oh,that has to be really hard.
Like, tell me about it.
Like tell me how hard it's been.
Just acknowledging their painor their hurt or where they are
(17:41):
can go such a long way.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, and I love that you brought up Simon Sinek.
I think Brené Brown sayssomething similar.
It's just to be like, yeah,that sucks Right, and I'm here
for you.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Whatever you need to, even to sit and listen or say
nothing at all, just be in aroom together, right, no words
need to be spoken.
I think that's sometimes thegreatest support there is, where
you can trust that nobody'sgoing to say anything or try to
fix it for you.
And so I love that piece aboutthe mud.
It's like sometimes you justgot to get in the mud with your
(18:14):
friends or your close ones.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, and it can be awkward and uncomfortable and
weird and we don't like which isawkward, like it's against our
(18:37):
nature, especially for maternalpeople, because when we do that,
it stops them from expressingand processing what it is that
they're feeling.
And so, as awkward and weird asit can feel at times, just
allow like leaning into that andletting that person cry and
(18:57):
letting that person be in theirsorrow and just allowing them to
know like hey, I'm right herewith you.
You don't have to go throughthis alone.
As long as it takes, I'm goingto keep showing up.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah, I love that.
The imagery that popped in mymind is when someone's coughing
and you encourage them to keepcoughing right, it's like that's
how you process that particularthing and it's the same with
our emotions.
It's like I always believe likeall feelings are valid and to
show them is the way that weprocess through them, right, and
I love that you brought that up.
(19:32):
I think it's important forfolks who aren't going through
it, but maybe have a partnerspouse or a friend sorry who
have lost a partner spouse orwho are empty nesting or
whatever it may be, is just tostep back and be like I'm just
here.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, definitely, and there was a statistic I read
that I want to say widows lose75% of their social circle in
the first year.
Most widows I know wouldprobably say it's more like 95%
instead of 75.
But people, for whatever reasonI don't know if empty nesters
(20:07):
have the same challenge, butit's like as you're going
through this season of your life, we become very internal, we
focus inward.
Our world has stopped.
We don't really reach out toother friends because we don't
have the bandwidth to do that at, but then people just disappear
(20:33):
, and the people who we thoughtthe most would be there and
would keep showing up oftenaren't.
And so just continuing to showup, continuing to reach out,
that's, I think, one of the bestthings that people can do.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, no, I love that .
And you know, we in my friend,like my close friend circle, I
had one of my friends lose hiswife, someone that we went to
the beach with every year.
This was like almost five yearsago now, but one of the things
that kind of I worked on with myother friends was to be like,
okay, this is happening, right,check, check on it.
(21:04):
Like this is your week to check, this is your week to check.
That Like just let's make apurpose of like checking in and
not to let that like disappear,right, and let's even just
reinforce that throughout time.
And so, even when something newcomes up now, five or six years
later, it was he had to giveback a foster dog.
(21:25):
His daughter had just graduatedand was moving away, and there
was, um, it was also the timelike the week of the anniversary
of the passing of his wife, andso I just texted my friends and
was like, hey, just want you toknow these three things are
happening.
It may seem insignificant inindividual pieces, but all three
of them together just send atext, just check on them, and so
(21:47):
I think that's so important forpeople to know.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
It's like that's how you can actually keep somebody
you know from getting lost inthe shuffle absolutely, and
those like the anniversary ofhis wife, um, those are dates
that most people don't think totrack or remember or put on
their calendar, but but to thatperson it's a lot.
(22:10):
So I'm sure he's very blessedto have you and your friends as
support around him.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, and I don't share it to be like, oh, this is
something.
It's more like hey, people,this is something you need to do
for your friends in their lives, right, this is how you show up
as a friend in a time of needforever, right, it's such an
important thing to support.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, I totally agree .
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Ellie, I'm curious, like what's one thing you have
learned about yourself in thisjourney?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Oh, so much.
Maybe she has more than one,okay, so I think it's.
I have learned, and you know asa coach, how important our
thoughts are and how ourthoughts drive our feelings and
drive our actions and all ofthese things, and so it has been
(23:04):
so interesting for me to justevaluate, like, what are the
core thoughts that I've hadthroughout my life?
What have the themes been?
Why am I thinking that?
What you know, what's behindthat?
Just getting curious about whatare some of the things that I
(23:24):
tend to default to or my brainlikes to feed me?
You know, like you know, I'mafraid of letting people down or
I'm afraid it's not going to begood enough, or I have this
insane internal desire that Iwant people to be proud, like I
want people to be proud, like Iwant you to be proud, I'm a
guest on your show.
I want my husband now to beproud that I'm his wife.
(23:45):
And so just peeling back, Ithink, some of those layers and
figuring out, okay, what drivesthat and what does?
Where does that come from andhow is that influencing, you
know, my ability or my tendencyto want to people, please, and
how can I develop healthyboundaries in keeping myself
(24:08):
from feeling resentful and burntout when I want to give and
give, and give, and give andgive, and then I resent people
because I feel like I'm beingtaken advantage of, when really
it's myself and my tendency towant to overcommit or to make
someone happy or you know, justlearning what my tendencies have
(24:30):
been and where that comes fromhas been one of the biggest
things I think I've learnedabout myself.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
I love that in that you're self-aware about what it
is that may or may be drivingyou and driving your actions.
How do you use thatself-awareness in your work with
widows?
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah.
So I have worked very hard toconstrain, for example, my
calendar, or to constrain likeI'm a teacher and I love to
teach all the topics and I loveto teach as much as I can about
everything, and so I really haveto coach myself on not doing
that.
So, for example, when I startedBrave Widow, I wanted clients
(25:13):
and so I would bend overbackwards to be available or to
do evening calls, or hadsomebody that wanted to meet on
the weekends, and because Iwanted them to be happy and
because I wanted to be a peeraccommodating, you know, I would
agree to those things and I dida lot of classes in the
evenings and things like that.
(25:34):
But ultimately what wouldhappen is, you know, I had four
teenagers, three still at home,and we have bunches of
activities that happen in theevenings and on the weekends and
I just felt this frustration of, well, I have to teach classes
in the evenings and I have to dothis and I have to do that.
(25:56):
So over time I really just gotto where I would constrain my
calendar and say, look, this ismy availability.
You know, I'm sorry if thatdoesn't work for you, this is
what I have that works for me.
It may not make everyone happy,but most people figure it out.
They figure out how to make itwork Right and it just allows me
to show up with for my kids ina very focused way.
(26:19):
It allows me to show up for myclients in a way where I don't
feel resentful, like I have tobe on this call with you now but
to be like, yes, I'm so excitedto be here.
So a lot for me has been aboutconstraining my time.
Even response time to peoplewho reach out, not feeling like
I have to respond right awaybecause I have this level of
(26:41):
urgency, I think has helped mejust feel really good about how
and where I show up and how I'mdividing my time.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah, I get that too.
It's the same like when we'recoaches.
As coaches, we want to helppeople and we want to be
available to help people all ofthe time, and you know we we
want to be available to helppeople all of the time, and you
know, we've got to be able tobalance our lives with that too,
and so I appreciate you sharingthat for sure.
It's like how do you balancelife Right?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
And how do you not?
Sometimes I realize I bringthings on myself.
So if I respond to a lot ofemails or I use Voxer a lot for
messaging, you know, if I'mresponding to those things on
evenings and weekends and when Inormally wouldn't check them,
am I teaching people like, oh,this is the time that you should
(27:35):
reach out and message me,because that's when you'll get a
response, versus like OK, well,let's wait until a time where I
have it scheduled.
I know I can be consistent atresponding at that time and then
I don't have to feel like I'malways on, like I can have a
time where I'm like OK, I'mfocusing on something else now,
I'm taking a break, and itcreates just a little more
(27:57):
consistency in my life.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Yeah, thinking of boundaries like what's like the
number one boundary that widowsneed to learn, is there one?
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Well, there's many, actually a lot of widows are
struggle with people pleasingand struggle with boundaries,
with the.
It's really to me theexpectations they put on
themselves.
Well, I should be able to dothis, I should be able to mow my
(28:29):
lawn and I should be able tofigure out all the passwords to
all the websites and I should beable to do my laundry.
Like, how hard is it to dolaundry?
But when you're in such deepgrief and you're going through
all the red tape of notifyingall the people, getting car
titles changed over and all ofthat, the expectations you have
(28:53):
on yourself should besignificantly lower than what
you're normally used to beingable to do.
And so I think sometimes thatone of the biggest boundaries is
that widows are resistant toasking for help and to being
clear about like hey, could youcome wash dishes for me?
(29:13):
Could you mow the lawn, couldyou have someone do this?
And so they don't have aboundary with what they expect
of themselves and therefore it'sreally difficult for them to
ask for help or to communicatewhat it is they need.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Yeah, it's like stop stop shooting on yourself, right
, like yes exactly.
To paraphrase Right, but right,you can.
I can see where your mind wentwith that and it was purposeful.
Like, yeah, stop shitting onyourself.
Like should this, should that?
It's like it doesn't help?
Right, it just layers on.
But how do you teach people toask for help?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yes, I have a whole course on that, and where we
start is actually have acomprehensive list that people
can use to even know what to askfor help with, Because in the
early days you're like I don'teven know.
I don't even know what I need.
I'm just surviving day by day.
So we start by saying likehere's a detailed list of all
(30:12):
the things you could ask forhelp with, and either you can
check the it's a literalchecklist you can check the
boxes to say I need help withthese things, or you can give
that list to family and friendsand say please let me know what
you would be able and willing todo.
Here we teach widows how tomake you know specific requests
(30:34):
like hey, I really need to getmy lawn mowed by next Saturday.
Could anyone do it between nowand then?
So just being able to vocalizewhat they need help with, or if
they're really uncomfortablewith that, then either assigning
someone to be like a personalliaison who will help coordinate
(30:54):
help for them.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
So good.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Or to even ask people like for recommendations, like,
oh hey, do you know someone whocould help with some house
cleaning?
Do you know someone who couldhelp with X, y or Z?
And sometimes people you know,oh, this light switch isn't
working in my kitchen, do youknow someone who could help with
that?
And a lot of times people willbe like, oh, I could do that, or
(31:17):
my brother could do that, or itkind of spurs people to want to
be able to help.
But if we don't vocalize withsome specificity what it is that
we need, then people don't knowhow to show up for us.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah, the specificity part right.
It's like there's this openlist of things and if you don't
purposefully say X, y or Z,people are just going to leave
it up to guessing.
Right.
And I see that happen a lotwith other things in life, where
you know maybe there might bean instance and you know
somebody wants to start a mealtrain for somebody and the next
thing you know your freezer isfull of like 30 different
(31:56):
casseroles.
Is that what you really neededin the moment?
But no, people didn't know howto help any other way.
So unless you ask for it, theydon't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, yeah.
And my number one tip because Iget this question a lot too is
like okay, what should we giveyou know to somebody who's
grieving or going through a hardtime?
Is like disposable everything.
Disposable silver, silverware,plates, napkins, paper towels,
like anything they don't have towash, take care of.
They could just throw it away.
That helps make their life alittle bit easier.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, that's a great tip to such a great tip.
Before I let you go, tell mewhat your life motto is, now
that you've gone through thisjourney.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Oh, my life motto as I've gone through this journey
is that currently, what I wouldsay it is is how can this be
true?
Which is kind of a weird mottoto think about, but I have found
myself at so many times where Ijust thought something was
(32:57):
really impossible and in grief.
A lot of times we tend to thinkvery either, or like either I
loved my late husband, I lovedthe life I had before, or I love
the life I have now.
We have a really hard timewrapping our minds around that
two things can feel opposite,but true.
(33:19):
And so even if it's somethinglike I have 10 things I need to
get done on my calendar todayand I start feeling really
overwhelmed, like there's justnot enough time.
There's literally physicallynot enough time to get all of
this done.
And once I stop and say OK, howcould it be true that I can
have enough time to get all ofthis done and suddenly,
(33:42):
magically, I come up with asolution.
So that has been kind of mymantra and my motto is for
things that feel impossible, howcould it be true?
Because I have come up with themost interesting solutions at
times, but making thingspossible that feel so impossible
.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yeah, how could it be true?
That's where that curiositypiece comes in, and I think
that's such an important lifelesson for people to embrace too
is no matter what has happenedin your life, whether you're an
empty nester, whether you're awidow or whatever it may be.
Whatever life transition you'refacing is how can you be
curious about what's next andhow to help yourself through
(34:21):
this?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah definitely.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Thank you so much for being here, Emily.
I really enjoyed having you onthe show.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Well, thank you so much for the invite and thank
you for coming on my show aswell.
I you're always full of greatinsight and value.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
So, thank you, thank you.
Where can people find you ifthey want to connect with you?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah, they can go to bravewidowcom and there's a
contact me link there and I'malso really active on Instagram
at brave underscore widow.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Excellent, awesome.
Put it in the show notes andpeople want to reach out to you.
Don't know where to find you.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
All right, thank you.
Thank you.
Don't know where to find you.
All right.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Are you ready to start livingand enjoying your empty nest
years?
If so, head over tojasonramsdencom and click work
with me to get the conversationstarted.
This empty nest life is aproduction of Impact.
(35:21):
One Media LLC.
All rights reserved.
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