August 9, 2025 • 34 mins
Feeling completely lost or mentally overwhelmed after your kids leave home? You're not alone—what many perceive as empty nest syndrome might actually be undiagnosed ADHD or executive function challenges magnified by life transitions.
In this enlightening episode, executive function expert Corie Wightlin sheds light on how the departure of children can unmask underlying brain struggles with organization, motivation, emotional regulation, and time management. When children take with them the routines and external scaffolding that masked these challenges, many adults find themselves scrambling—unable to complete simple tasks or find motivation.
Whether you're questioning if you have undiagnosed ADHD or simply struggling to find your footing, this episode offers validation, insight, and actionable tools to help you thrive past the empty nest.
Highlights & Key Takeaways:
- Executive function skills include organization, motivation, emotional regulation, and time management.
- Parenting provides external scaffolding that masks underlying challenges, which surface when children leave.
- Four brain motivators: urgency, challenge, novelty, and interest.
- Recognize your zones of regulation to maintain emotional balance.
- Self-compassion is crucial for breaking the shame cycle and nurturing resilience.
Corie Wightlin Bio
Holding a B.A. in Cognitive Science from Occidental College and a Master’s in Education and Literacy from the University of San Diego, Corie combines neuroscience, learning, and behavior expertise with a deep understanding of the lived ADHD experience.
As a certified mindfulness facilitator and certified ADHD coach, Corie integrates mindfulness-based strategies to support resilience, self-compassion, and executive function growth.
Corie presents on topics including ADHD and executive function, self-compassion, Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, and goal setting specific for ADHDers. Through a strengths-based and compassionate approach, Corie empowers individuals to navigate challenges, embrace their unique brains, and build systems for success.
Find Corie Online: LinkedIn, Instagram, Website
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And then when our kids go off, all of a sudden we
don't have to do all of that andour brain doesn't know what to
do then, because it's wait,where's my routine, where are
all of the tasks I used to haveto do, and it gets a little
scrambled, we just climb there.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to this Empty Nest Life.
Join Jay Ramsden as he leadsyou on a transformative journey
through the uncharted seas ofmidlife and empty nesting.
If you're ready to embark onthis new adventure and redefine
your future, you're in the rightplace.
Here's your host, the EmptyNest Coach, Jay Ramsden.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Hey there, my Empty Nest friends.
Have you ever wondered what theheck is going on here in
midlife with your brain and yourbody?
Maybe you feel like you'restruggling with brain fog
brought on by hormone changes.
Or perhaps you're wondering wasI just trying to multitask
because of the kids or am Ireally ADHD?
You might even be struggling tofind clarity and direction in
your life now that the kids aregrown and flown.
(00:58):
Well, today we're diving intothose topics with Corey
Whiteland, who helps people withADHD live efficiently, calmly,
connected and balanced.
Corey, welcome to thisEmptiness Life.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Thank you, I'm really excited to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, I'm so excited that you're here.
My son is diagnosed with ADD.
My wife did her PhD thesis inexecutive function.
I'm pretty sure that I amundiagnosed ADD myself and I
think there's so manyconnections in people's lives
around this particular topic.
But for me, what I want to getinto with you today is how does
midlife maybe unmask some ofthose things that we struggle
with?
And before you even get there,maybe we just start with what
(01:42):
the heck is executive function?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, I think that having that basic understanding
is important.
So executive functioning skillsare the skills that actually
live in the prefrontal cortex ofour brain.
So that's the part that goesright above our eyebrows to our
midbrain, and the basic thingthat I usually say is they are
what makes us human.
So it's organization,motivation, emotional regulation
(02:07):
, time management.
So they're the set of skillsthat keep us on time, keep us
motivated to do the things thatmaybe we don't really want to do
, help us hold a job or studyfor school.
And also the big one is thatemotional regulation.
So when things go awry or we'renot feeling so great, we're
(02:31):
usually able to keep a lid on it.
So executive functioning skillsare essential to be a
functioning member of kind ofany community or any society.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Okay, which is different from just to help
people understand what peoplemay hear as a lizard brain or
the animal brain, which iseverything that happens
subconsciously to just keep usmoving through the day.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Exactly, okay, exactly, yep.
And the other thing to know isthat our prefrontal cortex is
not actually fully developedtill our late twenties, and so
when we think of our adultchildren who are leaving the
nest and we're like, why can'tthey which is in my case why
don't they know how to send aletter, why are they calling me
(03:15):
to ask me where to send a letter?
Or why can't they just do thethings that we think they should
do?
A lot of times times theirbrain is still under
construction, so they're stillfiguring out how to do these
things.
And then if you have ADHD, thatpart of your brain really isn't
ever fully constructed, and sowe have to build a set of
systems and tools externallythat kind of helps scaffold it
(03:38):
up for us.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I love that kind of framing.
It's like parents if your kidsare pissing you off before they
go off to college, it's withgood reason.
They're not fully functioningin their brain just yet.
It's not fully formed.
There's some things stillcoming.
That's why it's so much funwhen they come back to us when
they're 25 or 26.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
You're like oh, you're an adult now, Okay, great
.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Awesome, exactly, okay.
Now I see.
Perfect.
It wasn't college that did it,or your first job.
It's just how our brains getformed.
Yeah, exactly.
So then, for people who areperhaps struggling with the
example I gave in the preview issome people think, oh, I was
just multitasking and trying todo all these things and turning
left and right because I havekids, but it could be something
(04:20):
different, so how would I know?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yes, I hear a lot like I think everyone is a
little ADHD.
And here's the thing Everyonedoes struggle with attention
every once in a while or focusevery once in a while or time
management or emotionalregulation, but in true
executive dysfunction it reallyimpacts your life, right?
You miss appointments more oftenthan not.
(04:45):
You're always waiting to thelast minute to get something
done and relying on that urgencyto motivate you.
You have really big reactionsto things that maybe other
people are just pissed off alittle bit about, and so if you
are feeling like, wow, this isreally impacting my life it's
most likely feeling like wow,this is really impacting my life
(05:07):
it's most likely you knowsomething's going on.
And I think back to what yousaid about when we have kids in
the home.
What we know is that a brainthat is in executive dysfunction
and that could be ADHD it's aside note executive dysfunction
can come from ADHD, obviously,or neurodiversity.
It also can come from trauma.
Trauma can ignite an executivedysfunction response lack of
(05:29):
sleep and high stress.
So all four of those can elicitexecutive dysfunction.
But what we know is thatsomething to hyper-focus on or
hyper-fixate on helps thoseexecutive functioning skills
become a little army, like theAvengers uniting together.
(05:51):
So when we have kids in thehome and they have so many
things going on and you'rehaving to manage them and you're
having to keep on schedule andyou're having to get up to make
breakfast and get them to waterpolo practice that actually can
help them stay online and thenwhen that goes away, all of a
sudden you don't have thatanchor, that foundation for
(06:13):
those skills anymore.
And so I see a lot of folksthat whose kids have left or
they've built their life as wedo around our kids and then when
they're gone, as we do aroundour kids, and then when they're
gone they don't have any kind ofanchor to hold on to those
skills and all of a sudden theyfeel like they're totally lost.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Got it Okay.
So, folks, if you're listening,listen.
It's not your fault, right?
If your kids lose that anchor,and it's not your fault that you
were the anchor, you justdidn't know Exactly.
So what I heard you say is thatparents often act as the
executive functioning part ofthe brain for our kids.
Do you have your lunch?
Do you have your backpack?
Is the lunch in there?
(06:52):
Is this book, is that homeworkdone?
Asking all the questions that afully formed brain would ask as
we're going through whatever.
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And then when our kids go off, all of a sudden we
don't have to do all of that andour brain doesn't know what to
do then Because, wait, where'smy routine, where are all of the
tasks I used to have to do?
And it gets a little scrambled.
And if you are an executivedysfunction, especially if
you're someone with ADHD, youdon't naturally come back into
(07:27):
regulation because our brainsdon't do that.
We don't regulate our dopamine,which is our motivation,
chemical.
We don't regulate our cortisol,which is our stress, chemical.
So unless we put in a set oftools or systems to bring us
back to that regulation, bringus back to the middle we're we
just clowned her.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Oh okay.
So now my brain is saying allright, the kids are getting
ready to go to college.
Not only are our emotionsheightened because of that
transition, but also we aren'tlearning how to regulate our
dopamine or cortisol, and we'rejust like it's not just one
thing, it's multitudes of thingscoming together all at the same
(08:06):
time with that transition.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
And all right, let's dive into that.
How does one regulate dopamineand cortisol?
Is that possible to do?
What does that look like?
Is that step one?
Is it step three?
Walk us through that based onyour experience.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yes.
So the first thing that we haveto do is we have to build
awareness, and so if we don'tknow what we're thinking when
we're thinking or what we'refeeling when we're feeling, then
we don't know what we'rethinking when we're thinking or
what we're feeling when we'refeeling.
Then we can't make any changes.
So the first thing that I havefolks do is literally just keep
a journal for a week or so.
How long did things take you?
Did you think that it was onlygoing to take you 10 minutes to
(08:40):
get ready for work?
But it actually takes you 45?
Did you think that that projectwas going to take you five
minutes for work and you spentthree days on it?
Now you're behind on everythingelse.
Then, also, what's motivatingyou?
Are you waiting to the lastminute and you're staying up
really late to get everythingdone?
Do you have to have someonenext to you or do you have to
(09:01):
have someone kind of helping youalong to get something done?
So, keeping track of how longthings are taking you, what's
motivating you to do them andwhat are the tasks that you are
absolutely avoiding, because weknow that those are probably
really uninteresting and thenmotivating to you.
Okay, so once we have thatbaseline then we can start to
(09:24):
first the time management piece.
When we're in an executivedysfunction, time goes out the
window.
We're totally time blind.
And so once we start to see howlong things actually take, then
we can start building our daysaround reality and not this like
perception, and that helps.
(09:44):
That helps a lot.
And then the second is buildingmotivation.
So brains are motivated fourways urgency, challenge, novelty
and interest.
So if you are noticing that youare just relying on urgency,
what happens then is we arerunning on cortisol, right.
(10:05):
So if we're, we get it done.
I've heard so many clients say,well, yeah, when I late till
the 11th hour, I get it done andit's always good.
Then I always talk about thecost, right.
So when we do that, we justflood our bodies with cortisol.
We literally put ourselves infight or flight and our nervous
system just goes into overdrive.
(10:26):
And then what happens is we areexhausted, we're overwhelmed
and then that leads to burnout.
So we can't just rely on urgencyall the time, but if that is
your big motivator, you cancreate artificial urgencies so
you can break down the task andsay, okay, I'm going to have
this done before I watch LoveIsland tonight.
(10:48):
I'm not going to let myselfwatch Love Island until I have
this done, and it's on at 8 pm,right.
And so we can create theseartificial urgencies that give
us a little bit of that cortisol, but not that complete flood.
We can also create challenges.
Brains that are in executivedysfunction love a game, so we
can gamify things, we can createinterest.
(11:11):
So I am a huge proponent ofdopamine pairing.
So having something that'sreally interesting to you at the
same time as something thatisn't and it can be anything
from your favorite coffee, right, go to your favorite coffee
shop, get your favorite coffeeand do the hard thing to
(11:33):
watching a really silly showwhile you're doing dishes I
can't do dishes without having aridiculous reality show on Like
I, just my body won't do it,and so creating those dopamine
pairs can be really helpful forthat high interest.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Okay, dopamine pairs cortisol.
I don't know about you.
I see stuff maybe because ofthe work I do and the type of
client I work with cortisolshows up in my Instagram feed
1000 different times and ways.
You might have high cortisol ifblah, blah, blah, yes, yeah.
So when I think about that,combined with everything else
that we've been talking to, is Ilike the idea of the pieces
(12:13):
like the smaller pieces right Togive you the hit of the urgency
without it being like, oh, I'vegot to get this whole project
done.
It's just the one component.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
So tell me more about the novelty and the interest
piece.
You said urgency and challenge.
Tell me about the other piece,those seem a little bit more, I
don't know accessible, and notinterest piece.
You said urgency and challenge.
Tell me about the other piece.
Those seems a little bit more,I don't know, accessible and not
so hard.
The novelty piece and theinterest piece, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, so the interest piece is definitely that
dopamine pairing can really helpwith that.
Also, I do not believe that ifyou are an executive dysfunction
and you are struggling to gettasks done, I do not believe in
doing the hardest thing first.
Your brain will fight you atevery turn and then you might
not get anything done.
(12:56):
So what I always suggest islooking at your to-do list and
finding the thing that is mostinteresting to you, the thing
that's going to you're actuallygoing to get it done.
You like it, and doing thatfirst, and what that actually
does is it helps us raise ourdopamine levels.
So then our brain is moreprimed to do the harder things,
(13:18):
and so I suggest doing thehardest thing third, so you have
the most interesting and thensomething that's in the middle.
So if you think of it as stairsteps, you have the least
interesting here at the bottom,the most interesting at the top.
So I suggest doing that andthen going to one that's in the
middle, and then usuallymomentum leads to motivation,
(13:41):
right, and so if we can activateand get some momentum, then we
can do that harder thing.
So that's another way thatinterest can really help us,
support us.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I love that.
No more eating the frog, yeahexactly.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Eating the frog works for a lot of people, but I have
found that it does notnecessarily work for ADHDers.
We don't like the frog and wewill do everything we can to not
eat the frog, and then thatactually builds a lot of shame
and a lot of guilt and then wefeel really bad about ourselves.
But it's not that we can't eatthe frog, we just can't eat it
(14:17):
as the appetizer.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
As the appetizer, it's the main meal.
Yeah, you're gonna make me cryhere, cause I'm like, oh crap,
man, I'm ADD, cause the eat thefrog thing never works for me
either.
It's just too much like oh, andthe shame and the guilt kicks
in.
So I totally feel that 100% andit is like, oh, what's more
interesting to me?
I never thought about it thatway.
(14:40):
Right, it was just like, oh,this task is more interesting
than this task.
But now that I am so focused on, let me do the three things I
have to do today.
I like that pace.
The interesting thing, maybethe one in between, and then the
frog, if you will.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, and then I always suggest after the frog
you have a reward.
Adhd brains love reward.
So you give yourself, you dosomething fun after, or you go
and get some ice cream or call afriend or something that will
feel really good to you and onethat feels really good.
Everyone likes to do somethingfun and that actually helps to
(15:14):
create those neurologicalconnections in our brain where
our brain says oh okay, you'regoing to feed me some good stuff
if I do this hard thing for you.
So it actually over time makesthat hard thing a little bit
easier.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I love that.
It's so revealing, I think, forfolks who may be listening to
this and be like oh, this is howI parented it.
The whole time I was doing allthese other things, running
around struggling with X, y andZ, but I never got to that big
task of cleaning out the closetor cleaning out the garage or
redoing the kid's closet,whatever it may be right, those
(15:48):
things that we put off.
That just seems so enormous andoverbearing to us.
It's because maybe there's someexecutive function stuff going
on.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
For sure, and with those that's.
Those are prime examples ofdopamine pairing you.
You get a friend to come and doit with you and you promise
them pizza after you put on likea playlist that just makes you
so happy, right?
Or you listen to an awesomepodcast or a great audio book or
something that helps keep thatdopamine and that serotonin,
(16:20):
which is our happiness chemical,helps keep it in.
I call it the green area, right, that regulated area.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
And not too high, because if it's too high then we
know it crashes right.
Anything that goes up comesdown.
We like to keep it in that kindof green area that regulated
area, so you said the green area.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
are there orange and red areas and how does that play
in?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yes.
So when I work with clients, Iwork a lot on zones of
regulation.
So with zones of regulation, wehave just really briefly, we
have blue at the bottom and blueis really low.
Right, I can't get out of bed,I can't do this thing, I'm
feeling really tired, I'mfeeling really bored.
Then we have green, and that'sregulated.
I can do the thing, but I'm notlike so hyper focused on it
(17:04):
that I can't do anything elseand I can't go to the bathroom
and I can't eat.
Right, I'm feeling pretty good,that's where we want to be.
Then we have yellow, which is alittle elevated.
So yellow could be a positiveor like a feel good emotion,
like I'm really excited or I'mreally happy.
So I can't quite if you've everplanned a party or something
where you're like all over theplace cause you're so excited
(17:26):
it's happening and you're notlike doing one, not ever
finishing one task, or it can beI'm a little bit frustrated,
I'm a little stressed and it'shard to do the thing because I'm
feeling out of whack.
And then we have red, and redcan be super hyper-focused,
which is what I spoke about,which when we're in hyper, when
we're in hyper focus, that iswhere we do.
(17:47):
We forget to go to the bathroom, we forget to eat, we forget to
drink water.
Somebody can say, hey, come on,we got to go, and just five
more minutes, just five moreminutes, just five more minutes,
and it just feels so hard toget out of it.
And that's what I spoke to canbe a really difficult emotion.
We're really angry, we'rereally stressed, we have tons of
(18:12):
anxiety and we can't get thingsdone and the goal is to stay in
that green area as much aspossible.
And that goes back to theawareness is.
I have everyone from myelementary school clients to
right now I have.
My oldest client is 70.
I have every client keep trackof when they're in which area
(18:33):
and then practice at least threetools that can help them get
back into green, and we write itdown and oftentimes they don't
even realize that they're not ingreen.
It just is so overwhelming,we're so offline, and so if they
start to be like, oh, wow, yeah, I went to clean the garage and
I just couldn't do it, Icouldn't get off the couch and I
(18:55):
felt terrible.
I didn't do it all day.
You know what?
I was in blue.
So I actually went for a runinstead and I had a really great
breakfast and I called myfriend.
Then I felt better and then Iwas able to go do it.
So, rather than just try toforce yourself off the couch and
it takes 10 hours to clean thegarage because you're so low
doing that tool in between toget you back into the green can
(19:18):
be really helpful and actuallysave time in the long run.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah.
So let's fast forward.
If the parents are off, they'reempty nesting and they're just.
They get get home and they feellost.
I'm, I can't get motivated todo things, I'm not sure what
comes next for me.
How do they know?
Is this a symptom of just thekids leaving?
Is it because the stress of themove and the change in energy
(19:42):
in the house that my cortisollevels are raised and I can't?
I'm in the red level, I justwhere I'm in the blue level, I
should say.
And so how do we know?
How do we know if it's anexecutive functioning issue or
just a moment in time where it'semotional?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah.
So I would say, if it issystemic, right.
If everybody has one or twodays or even weeks where things
feel really hard, especially intransition, right.
I've now dropped my oldestdaughter off, or she's gone off
twice now and you know twoseparate years.
(20:17):
She's going, she's a risingjunior and it doesn't get easier
.
I thought it would, but everytime she leaves a little piece
of my heart breaks.
And she's actually in your neckof the woods, she's in New York
City.
I live in San Diego, so aboutas far away in the continental
United States as you can be, andit's hard.
(20:37):
And so there is time, I wouldsay, for a whole family, even
for her younger siblings, wherewe all feel a little off kilter.
We walk past her room and feela little sad, the dogs go in
there, which kind of breaks yourheart.
But then we regulate, right.
It's not that we don't miss her, it's not that we wish she
wasn't with us, but we get intoour new routine.
I would say if you are in trueexecutive dysfunction, you don't
(20:59):
ever really, after severalweeks, even get back into that
normal routine.
It keeps going on and on.
And the things that you used todo pretty easily, or the things
that you, you felt or you feellike you should quote unquote, I
hate that word should but youshould be able to do.
You just can't, don't seem tobe able to do with any sort of
(21:21):
ease, then I would say you'reprobably in a slump of executive
dysfunction.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Okay.
So I would say people who aremy clients listen to the show it
is.
They would characterize that asfeeling lost, like they come
home they've dropped the lastone off or it doesn't matter,
one of them off, and all theyseem to be able to do is I can
sweep the floor in the kitchen.
It seems like it's never enoughand that's all I can manage to
(21:48):
do.
That's all that feels goodenough for me to do, but
everything else in life justmaybe has lost its flavor and I
can't get motivated to doanything else to go for a walk,
to go to a gym, to grocery shopregularly, to clean anything out
, to move forward with anything.
That sounds more like it couldhave been or could be an
executive functioning disorder.
(22:09):
Is that sounds correct?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
100, 100.
I feel like you just like check, check, check, check, check of
pretty much all my clients.
So you, just, you just createdmy like perfect client.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Perfect client list.
Yeah, and it's interestingbecause my clients many of them
are the same, and so it's a mix,I think, of the emotional
rollercoaster ride and executivefunction disorder, whereas I'm
just stuck is the best way todescribe it.
I'm stuck.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, for sure.
And, like I said earlier,there's lots of things that can
put us in chronic executivedysfunction and trauma.
Or big life change is a big one, whether it's divorce or a
child leaving or a death in yourfamily that you know to get
neurological just really quickit ignites that amygdala part of
our brain which is our fight,flight or freeze because we
(23:01):
don't feel safe.
Right, our body is our bodydoesn't know why our?
Speaker 3 (23:03):
because we don't feel safe right.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Our body doesn't know why Our bodies are we getting
attacked by a bear?
Or did we drop off our kid atcollege?
I don't know.
So I'm just going to act likewe're getting attacked by a bear
, just in case.
And so when we do that, whenthe amygdala is lit up, that
prefrontal cortex actually doesphysically go offline.
Because when we are in a spacewhere we're getting attacked by
(23:27):
a bear, we don't want to thinkcritically right, we don't want
to have time management, wedon't want to like pause and
decide what to do.
We need to react.
And so when that's happeningfor a really long time, that's
really hard on our bodies andour nervous systems.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yeah.
So if you're wrapped in ablanket with a coffee mug
listening to this episode onyour couch right now, after
possibly dropping your kid off,or they left her summer camp, or
whatever it may be, you'reexactly where you need to be.
Exactly Like listening to thisepisode, because this is what
we're talking about.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
And taking care of yourself.
Right, wrap yourself in thatweighted blanket, get your
favorite drink.
Take care of your nervoussystem, because if your nervous
system is not is workingovertime, you're not going to be
able to do those other thingsphysically.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
So what are some tools?
You talked a little bit aboutthat, but what are some more
tools or mindset shifts thatpeople can do in order to help
jumpstart this, so that they getback to feeling okay.
Life feels good to me.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
One thing that I do with all of my clients is which
is not part of executivefunctioning, but it's like the
bridge to executive functioningchallenges Our support is
building self compassion.
So if you have been living inexecutive function challenge for
a long time whether it's sinceyou're a little kid or, you know
, recently in midlife, becauseof hormones or dropping someone
(24:48):
off or life change we tend toget in a failure feedback loop.
So I will use the sweeping thefloor as an example, since you
brought that up.
I have to sweep the floor todayafter dinner.
I have to do it.
Dinner happens, you sit on thecouch.
You just can't.
You can't physically do it, youcan't emotionally do.
(25:08):
It Seems so simple and you justkeep telling yourself just do
it, just do it.
Why can't you do this?
This is so easy, just do it.
Then our body reacts to thatstress in that fight or flight
and so we actually it makes iteven harder and then we get in
that failure feedback loop andso that happens that's just one
(25:30):
example of you can imagine,throughout the day of all of the
times.
And if you are someone withADHD.
Research shows that ADHDers get20,000 more negative messages
by the time they reach middleschool than neurotypical kids,
whether they're diagnosed or not, and so think about that when
(25:51):
your brain is developing.
You've had so much negativefeedback.
Why can't you do this?
Just pay attention.
You're late again.
Wait, why can't you turn inthat homework?
You forgot it.
You lost it right All the time.
So building self-compassion isessential, no matter whether
(26:11):
it's been 40 years or one month,and self-compassion is treating
yourself with kindness andcuriosity and love, regardless
of what's going on around you,regardless of if you've sweeped
the floor, regardless of if youreturn that phone call,
regardless of if you got theproject for work in on time.
And so building that is reallyimportant and really hard.
(26:34):
It's not easy.
So I suggest with just startingwith paying attention to what
your brain is telling you andthen writing it down, physically
, seeing it and if it is nottruthful or kind, crossing it
off and reframing it.
So I'll use the sweeping thefloor.
(26:55):
Why can't you just sleep thefloor?
You're so lazy.
Everyone else in the world issweeping their floors every
night.
Well, that's not true.
Not everyone is doing that.
It's also not kind to callyourself lazy.
So crossing it off and thenmaybe saying this is really hard
for me right now because I'mjust trying to get through.
Every day I'm missing my kid.
My routine has completelychanged so I'm going to sweep
(27:18):
the floor, maybe tomorrowmorning when I have more energy
and just allowing yourself thatreframe.
Tomorrow morning when I havemore energy and just allowing
yourself that reframe.
And the more we do that, themore we see what we're saying to
ourselves and that physicalcross off and reframe, the
easier it becomes a little bitmore automatic and we start to
see, wow, we really don't treatourselves very kindly.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Yeah, we don't speak to ourselves, kindly, it's.
How is that thought serving meright now?
Is it really serving me to beatmyself up, or can I think of it
a little bit differently?
It's okay if I'm on the floortonight.
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And the other thing to start, the foundation of it
is keeping track of what is inyour control, and I love this.
Yesterday I took my highschooler to a college showcase.
She's a water polo player andthey had an Olympian there and
she sat them all in a circle onthe gym floor and the whole talk
was about what is in yourcontrol and how can you come
(28:14):
back to that over and over.
And so I'm so grateful she'stelling this to 16-year-old
athletes, because a lot feelsout of their control.
She's telling this to 16 yearold athletes because a lot feels
out of their control.
Sure, and the same thing for usas midlife adults, right is,
what is in our control?
And if something feels out ofour control, is there something
that we can do to respond to itrather than react?
(28:37):
And so if we start to do that,we start to see, well, there's a
lot more that's in our controlthan feels in our control, and
then we can start to create somereactions to those that feel a
little bit more helpful to getus out of that.
And then the third is honestlyplanning, rest and recharge.
(29:00):
And when I say rest it doesn'tmean like laying on your bed.
It might, but there's severaldifferent kinds of rest.
There's physical rest, there'smental rest, there's emotional
rest.
And so planning that andputting it in your calendar and
giving yourself time to rechargeand regulate right now in life
(29:21):
is not, it's not a yeah, Ishould do that, it's essential.
You plug in your phone, youplug in your computer, right,
there's all those analogies.
You can't pour from an emptycup, it's all so true.
So if you don't take time to dothat hobby you really love, or
to go on the walk with your dog,or to meditate or pray or
(29:42):
whatever emotionally orspiritually helps you.
You can't, you're going to burnout.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yeah, I love how you framed rest in multiple ways
right Than just saying youshould rest and take care of
yourself because people are likerest means oh, I should be
sleeping for a while, or asopposed to saying no, it can be
multiple different ways to takecare of yourself.
So I love that too In thisjourney, especially at midlife.
I was never a napper myself,but I have come to love an hour
(30:10):
nap with some positivemeditation music on a couple of
times a week just to reset andreframe, and it's so good for my
brain and then I also just askmy brain questions there to let
it process during that time too,and it's a wonderful way to do
that.
I'm curious through thisjourney of yours, corey, you've
done a lot of work, obviously inan executive function and
(30:31):
helping people, but what's onething you've learned about
yourself in this journey?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Oh, just one thing, a million things.
Do we have another hour on?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
this podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think the big thing that I have learned and this is
I say this all the time is Iused to tell everyone everyone
would say how do you do it all?
And I used to tell everyonethat I had a giant Thanksgiving
platter.
Some people have a plate rightA lot on their plate.
I'm like I just have this giantThanksgiving platter.
I can do it all, I can say itall, I can be on every committee
(31:03):
.
It was not true, I was lying tothem and I was lying to myself.
I really had a really smallplate and it was just piled
really high and things weregetting lost in it and it was
cracking and I was droppingthings.
And so I have really learnedwhat my capacity is.
And going back to what's in mycontrol it's not in my control
what other people's capacity is.
(31:24):
So some people might have abigger capacity.
That doesn't make them a betterperson.
That doesn't make them a betterparent.
And once I set boundaries whichare really hard, but I practice
and I practice and I startedreally taking care of myself in
ways that were right for me andnot just what I thought I should
do my whole life view changed.
(31:47):
My relationship with my kidsgot so much better because I
wasn't rushing all the time orout all the time or forgetting
things or yelling at them forthings that weren't their fault
and they were my fault becausewe were overscheduled.
My relationship with my husbandchanged, with my friends, and
so figuring out what my capacityis at this time in my life, it
(32:10):
was a game changer and I have tocome back to it often because
it's really easy to let thatplate get bigger and let things
sneak in.
But I reassess that all thetime and I think to myself okay,
what kind of life do I want tolive and how do I want to show
up?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, Two great questions.
How do I want to show up inthis life that I want to live?
It's amazing, right, yeah?
So when I think about that, doyou have a life motto?
I know you're not an empty nestor just yet, so got one one in
that journey, but if you had anempty nest, life motto or life
motto, what would it be?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
That's a great question.
I think it would be that showup every day like it's a new day
, and I think that's reallyimportant for people like me
that have neurodiverse brains,because we are a little bit like
goldfish and every day feelslike a new day and it's really
easy to bring shame and anxietyand guilt from previous days.
(33:10):
So show up like every day is anew day and just figure out
what's going to happen that dayand how you want to show up and
then do it and honor how youfeel that day, whether it's a
day you're going to get a lotdone and go for it or a day
you're going to take a nap andtake it slow.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
So good.
Yeah, it's like those graphicswhere it's showing up every day
is like people think it's a fullcup every day, but it's really
a full cup, a half a cup, aquarter cup, no cup.
That's what showing up everyday is.
It's like how it works for youand I so appreciate you bringing
to the table in thisconversation today around how
you know what, if you thinkyou're abnormal, you're really
(33:49):
normal for you as an individualand I think that might be the
biggest takeaway from today'sepisode.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Awesome.
I love that as a takeaway.
I think that's really important, for sure.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
That's so good, Corey .
Thank you so much for beinghere.
I thoroughly enjoyed theconversation for sure.
That's so good, corey.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
I thoroughly enjoyed theconversation.
It's where I live every day andI hope, folks, if you're
listening, that you take alittle bit away from this.
We're going to put all ofCorey's information in the show
notes.
If you feel like you'restruggling with this ADHD and
not feeling like you're livingefficiently or calmly or
balanced, you can reach out toher and get in touch.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Thanks so much for being on the show.
Thank you Loved it.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Are you ready to start living and enjoying your
empty nest years?
If so, head over tojasonramsdencom and click work
with me to get the conversationstarted.
This Empty Nest Life is aproduction of Impact.
One Media LLC.
All rights reserved.
And then when our kids go off, all of a sudden we
don't have to do all of that andour brain doesn't know what to
do then, because it's wait,where's my routine, where are
all of the tasks I used to haveto do, and it gets a little
scrambled, we just climb there.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to this Empty Nest Life.
Join Jay Ramsden as he leadsyou on a transformative journey
through the uncharted seas ofmidlife and empty nesting.
If you're ready to embark onthis new adventure and redefine
your future, you're in the rightplace.
Here's your host, the EmptyNest Coach, Jay Ramsden.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Hey there, my Empty Nest friends.
Have you ever wondered what theheck is going on here in
midlife with your brain and yourbody?
Maybe you feel like you'restruggling with brain fog
brought on by hormone changes.
Or perhaps you're wondering wasI just trying to multitask
because of the kids or am Ireally ADHD?
You might even be struggling tofind clarity and direction in
your life now that the kids aregrown and flown.
(00:58):
Well, today we're diving intothose topics with Corey
Whiteland, who helps people withADHD live efficiently, calmly,
connected and balanced.
Corey, welcome to thisEmptiness Life.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Thank you, I'm really excited to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, I'm so excited that you're here.
My son is diagnosed with ADD.
My wife did her PhD thesis inexecutive function.
I'm pretty sure that I amundiagnosed ADD myself and I
think there's so manyconnections in people's lives
around this particular topic.
But for me, what I want to getinto with you today is how does
midlife maybe unmask some ofthose things that we struggle
with?
And before you even get there,maybe we just start with what
(01:42):
the heck is executive function?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, I think that having that basic understanding
is important.
So executive functioning skillsare the skills that actually
live in the prefrontal cortex ofour brain.
So that's the part that goesright above our eyebrows to our
midbrain, and the basic thingthat I usually say is they are
what makes us human.
So it's organization,motivation, emotional regulation
(02:07):
, time management.
So they're the set of skillsthat keep us on time, keep us
motivated to do the things thatmaybe we don't really want to do
, help us hold a job or studyfor school.
And also the big one is thatemotional regulation.
So when things go awry or we'renot feeling so great, we're
(02:31):
usually able to keep a lid on it.
So executive functioning skillsare essential to be a
functioning member of kind ofany community or any society.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Okay, which is different from just to help
people understand what peoplemay hear as a lizard brain or
the animal brain, which iseverything that happens
subconsciously to just keep usmoving through the day.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Exactly, okay, exactly, yep.
And the other thing to know isthat our prefrontal cortex is
not actually fully developedtill our late twenties, and so
when we think of our adultchildren who are leaving the
nest and we're like, why can'tthey which is in my case why
don't they know how to send aletter, why are they calling me
(03:15):
to ask me where to send a letter?
Or why can't they just do thethings that we think they should
do?
A lot of times times theirbrain is still under
construction, so they're stillfiguring out how to do these
things.
And then if you have ADHD, thatpart of your brain really isn't
ever fully constructed, and sowe have to build a set of
systems and tools externallythat kind of helps scaffold it
(03:38):
up for us.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I love that kind of framing.
It's like parents if your kidsare pissing you off before they
go off to college, it's withgood reason.
They're not fully functioningin their brain just yet.
It's not fully formed.
There's some things stillcoming.
That's why it's so much funwhen they come back to us when
they're 25 or 26.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
You're like oh, you're an adult now, Okay, great
.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Awesome, exactly, okay.
Now I see.
Perfect.
It wasn't college that did it,or your first job.
It's just how our brains getformed.
Yeah, exactly.
So then, for people who areperhaps struggling with the
example I gave in the preview issome people think, oh, I was
just multitasking and trying todo all these things and turning
left and right because I havekids, but it could be something
(04:20):
different, so how would I know?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yes, I hear a lot like I think everyone is a
little ADHD.
And here's the thing Everyonedoes struggle with attention
every once in a while or focusevery once in a while or time
management or emotionalregulation, but in true
executive dysfunction it reallyimpacts your life, right?
You miss appointments more oftenthan not.
(04:45):
You're always waiting to thelast minute to get something
done and relying on that urgencyto motivate you.
You have really big reactionsto things that maybe other
people are just pissed off alittle bit about, and so if you
are feeling like, wow, this isreally impacting my life it's
most likely feeling like wow,this is really impacting my life
(05:07):
it's most likely you knowsomething's going on.
And I think back to what yousaid about when we have kids in
the home.
What we know is that a brainthat is in executive dysfunction
and that could be ADHD it's aside note executive dysfunction
can come from ADHD, obviously,or neurodiversity.
It also can come from trauma.
Trauma can ignite an executivedysfunction response lack of
(05:29):
sleep and high stress.
So all four of those can elicitexecutive dysfunction.
But what we know is thatsomething to hyper-focus on or
hyper-fixate on helps thoseexecutive functioning skills
become a little army, like theAvengers uniting together.
(05:51):
So when we have kids in thehome and they have so many
things going on and you'rehaving to manage them and you're
having to keep on schedule andyou're having to get up to make
breakfast and get them to waterpolo practice that actually can
help them stay online and thenwhen that goes away, all of a
sudden you don't have thatanchor, that foundation for
(06:13):
those skills anymore.
And so I see a lot of folksthat whose kids have left or
they've built their life as wedo around our kids and then when
they're gone, as we do aroundour kids, and then when they're
gone they don't have any kind ofanchor to hold on to those
skills and all of a sudden theyfeel like they're totally lost.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Got it Okay.
So, folks, if you're listening,listen.
It's not your fault, right?
If your kids lose that anchor,and it's not your fault that you
were the anchor, you justdidn't know Exactly.
So what I heard you say is thatparents often act as the
executive functioning part ofthe brain for our kids.
Do you have your lunch?
Do you have your backpack?
Is the lunch in there?
(06:52):
Is this book, is that homeworkdone?
Asking all the questions that afully formed brain would ask as
we're going through whatever.
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And then when our kids go off, all of a sudden we
don't have to do all of that andour brain doesn't know what to
do then Because, wait, where'smy routine, where are all of the
tasks I used to have to do?
And it gets a little scrambled.
And if you are an executivedysfunction, especially if
you're someone with ADHD, youdon't naturally come back into
(07:27):
regulation because our brainsdon't do that.
We don't regulate our dopamine,which is our motivation,
chemical.
We don't regulate our cortisol,which is our stress, chemical.
So unless we put in a set oftools or systems to bring us
back to that regulation, bringus back to the middle we're we
just clowned her.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Oh okay.
So now my brain is saying allright, the kids are getting
ready to go to college.
Not only are our emotionsheightened because of that
transition, but also we aren'tlearning how to regulate our
dopamine or cortisol, and we'rejust like it's not just one
thing, it's multitudes of thingscoming together all at the same
(08:06):
time with that transition.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
And all right, let's dive into that.
How does one regulate dopamineand cortisol?
Is that possible to do?
What does that look like?
Is that step one?
Is it step three?
Walk us through that based onyour experience.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yes.
So the first thing that we haveto do is we have to build
awareness, and so if we don'tknow what we're thinking when
we're thinking or what we'refeeling when we're feeling, then
we don't know what we'rethinking when we're thinking or
what we're feeling when we'refeeling.
Then we can't make any changes.
So the first thing that I havefolks do is literally just keep
a journal for a week or so.
How long did things take you?
Did you think that it was onlygoing to take you 10 minutes to
(08:40):
get ready for work?
But it actually takes you 45?
Did you think that that projectwas going to take you five
minutes for work and you spentthree days on it?
Now you're behind on everythingelse.
Then, also, what's motivatingyou?
Are you waiting to the lastminute and you're staying up
really late to get everythingdone?
Do you have to have someonenext to you or do you have to
(09:01):
have someone kind of helping youalong to get something done?
So, keeping track of how longthings are taking you, what's
motivating you to do them andwhat are the tasks that you are
absolutely avoiding, because weknow that those are probably
really uninteresting and thenmotivating to you.
Okay, so once we have thatbaseline then we can start to
(09:24):
first the time management piece.
When we're in an executivedysfunction, time goes out the
window.
We're totally time blind.
And so once we start to see howlong things actually take, then
we can start building our daysaround reality and not this like
perception, and that helps.
(09:44):
That helps a lot.
And then the second is buildingmotivation.
So brains are motivated fourways urgency, challenge, novelty
and interest.
So if you are noticing that youare just relying on urgency,
what happens then is we arerunning on cortisol, right.
(10:05):
So if we're, we get it done.
I've heard so many clients say,well, yeah, when I late till
the 11th hour, I get it done andit's always good.
Then I always talk about thecost, right.
So when we do that, we justflood our bodies with cortisol.
We literally put ourselves infight or flight and our nervous
system just goes into overdrive.
(10:26):
And then what happens is we areexhausted, we're overwhelmed
and then that leads to burnout.
So we can't just rely on urgencyall the time, but if that is
your big motivator, you cancreate artificial urgencies so
you can break down the task andsay, okay, I'm going to have
this done before I watch LoveIsland tonight.
(10:48):
I'm not going to let myselfwatch Love Island until I have
this done, and it's on at 8 pm,right.
And so we can create theseartificial urgencies that give
us a little bit of that cortisol, but not that complete flood.
We can also create challenges.
Brains that are in executivedysfunction love a game, so we
can gamify things, we can createinterest.
(11:11):
So I am a huge proponent ofdopamine pairing.
So having something that'sreally interesting to you at the
same time as something thatisn't and it can be anything
from your favorite coffee, right, go to your favorite coffee
shop, get your favorite coffeeand do the hard thing to
(11:33):
watching a really silly showwhile you're doing dishes I
can't do dishes without having aridiculous reality show on Like
I, just my body won't do it,and so creating those dopamine
pairs can be really helpful forthat high interest.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Okay, dopamine pairs cortisol.
I don't know about you.
I see stuff maybe because ofthe work I do and the type of
client I work with cortisolshows up in my Instagram feed
1000 different times and ways.
You might have high cortisol ifblah, blah, blah, yes, yeah.
So when I think about that,combined with everything else
that we've been talking to, is Ilike the idea of the pieces
(12:13):
like the smaller pieces right Togive you the hit of the urgency
without it being like, oh, I'vegot to get this whole project
done.
It's just the one component.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
So tell me more about the novelty and the interest
piece.
You said urgency and challenge.
Tell me about the other piece,those seem a little bit more, I
don't know accessible, and notinterest piece.
You said urgency and challenge.
Tell me about the other piece.
Those seems a little bit more,I don't know, accessible and not
so hard.
The novelty piece and theinterest piece, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, so the interest piece is definitely that
dopamine pairing can really helpwith that.
Also, I do not believe that ifyou are an executive dysfunction
and you are struggling to gettasks done, I do not believe in
doing the hardest thing first.
Your brain will fight you atevery turn and then you might
not get anything done.
(12:56):
So what I always suggest islooking at your to-do list and
finding the thing that is mostinteresting to you, the thing
that's going to you're actuallygoing to get it done.
You like it, and doing thatfirst, and what that actually
does is it helps us raise ourdopamine levels.
So then our brain is moreprimed to do the harder things,
(13:18):
and so I suggest doing thehardest thing third, so you have
the most interesting and thensomething that's in the middle.
So if you think of it as stairsteps, you have the least
interesting here at the bottom,the most interesting at the top.
So I suggest doing that andthen going to one that's in the
middle, and then usuallymomentum leads to motivation,
(13:41):
right, and so if we can activateand get some momentum, then we
can do that harder thing.
So that's another way thatinterest can really help us,
support us.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I love that.
No more eating the frog, yeahexactly.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Eating the frog works for a lot of people, but I have
found that it does notnecessarily work for ADHDers.
We don't like the frog and wewill do everything we can to not
eat the frog, and then thatactually builds a lot of shame
and a lot of guilt and then wefeel really bad about ourselves.
But it's not that we can't eatthe frog, we just can't eat it
(14:17):
as the appetizer.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
As the appetizer, it's the main meal.
Yeah, you're gonna make me cryhere, cause I'm like, oh crap,
man, I'm ADD, cause the eat thefrog thing never works for me
either.
It's just too much like oh, andthe shame and the guilt kicks
in.
So I totally feel that 100% andit is like, oh, what's more
interesting to me?
I never thought about it thatway.
(14:40):
Right, it was just like, oh,this task is more interesting
than this task.
But now that I am so focused on, let me do the three things I
have to do today.
I like that pace.
The interesting thing, maybethe one in between, and then the
frog, if you will.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, and then I always suggest after the frog
you have a reward.
Adhd brains love reward.
So you give yourself, you dosomething fun after, or you go
and get some ice cream or call afriend or something that will
feel really good to you and onethat feels really good.
Everyone likes to do somethingfun and that actually helps to
(15:14):
create those neurologicalconnections in our brain where
our brain says oh okay, you'regoing to feed me some good stuff
if I do this hard thing for you.
So it actually over time makesthat hard thing a little bit
easier.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I love that.
It's so revealing, I think, forfolks who may be listening to
this and be like oh, this is howI parented it.
The whole time I was doing allthese other things, running
around struggling with X, y andZ, but I never got to that big
task of cleaning out the closetor cleaning out the garage or
redoing the kid's closet,whatever it may be right, those
(15:48):
things that we put off.
That just seems so enormous andoverbearing to us.
It's because maybe there's someexecutive function stuff going
on.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
For sure, and with those that's.
Those are prime examples ofdopamine pairing you.
You get a friend to come and doit with you and you promise
them pizza after you put on likea playlist that just makes you
so happy, right?
Or you listen to an awesomepodcast or a great audio book or
something that helps keep thatdopamine and that serotonin,
(16:20):
which is our happiness chemical,helps keep it in.
I call it the green area, right, that regulated area.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
And not too high, because if it's too high then we
know it crashes right.
Anything that goes up comesdown.
We like to keep it in that kindof green area that regulated
area, so you said the green area.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
are there orange and red areas and how does that play
in?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yes.
So when I work with clients, Iwork a lot on zones of
regulation.
So with zones of regulation, wehave just really briefly, we
have blue at the bottom and blueis really low.
Right, I can't get out of bed,I can't do this thing, I'm
feeling really tired, I'mfeeling really bored.
Then we have green, and that'sregulated.
I can do the thing, but I'm notlike so hyper focused on it
(17:04):
that I can't do anything elseand I can't go to the bathroom
and I can't eat.
Right, I'm feeling pretty good,that's where we want to be.
Then we have yellow, which is alittle elevated.
So yellow could be a positiveor like a feel good emotion,
like I'm really excited or I'mreally happy.
So I can't quite if you've everplanned a party or something
where you're like all over theplace cause you're so excited
(17:26):
it's happening and you're notlike doing one, not ever
finishing one task, or it can beI'm a little bit frustrated,
I'm a little stressed and it'shard to do the thing because I'm
feeling out of whack.
And then we have red, and redcan be super hyper-focused,
which is what I spoke about,which when we're in hyper, when
we're in hyper focus, that iswhere we do.
(17:47):
We forget to go to the bathroom, we forget to eat, we forget to
drink water.
Somebody can say, hey, come on,we got to go, and just five
more minutes, just five moreminutes, just five more minutes,
and it just feels so hard toget out of it.
And that's what I spoke to canbe a really difficult emotion.
We're really angry, we'rereally stressed, we have tons of
(18:12):
anxiety and we can't get thingsdone and the goal is to stay in
that green area as much aspossible.
And that goes back to theawareness is.
I have everyone from myelementary school clients to
right now I have.
My oldest client is 70.
I have every client keep trackof when they're in which area
(18:33):
and then practice at least threetools that can help them get
back into green, and we write itdown and oftentimes they don't
even realize that they're not ingreen.
It just is so overwhelming,we're so offline, and so if they
start to be like, oh, wow, yeah, I went to clean the garage and
I just couldn't do it, Icouldn't get off the couch and I
(18:55):
felt terrible.
I didn't do it all day.
You know what?
I was in blue.
So I actually went for a runinstead and I had a really great
breakfast and I called myfriend.
Then I felt better and then Iwas able to go do it.
So, rather than just try toforce yourself off the couch and
it takes 10 hours to clean thegarage because you're so low
doing that tool in between toget you back into the green can
(19:18):
be really helpful and actuallysave time in the long run.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah.
So let's fast forward.
If the parents are off, they'reempty nesting and they're just.
They get get home and they feellost.
I'm, I can't get motivated todo things, I'm not sure what
comes next for me.
How do they know?
Is this a symptom of just thekids leaving?
Is it because the stress of themove and the change in energy
(19:42):
in the house that my cortisollevels are raised and I can't?
I'm in the red level, I justwhere I'm in the blue level, I
should say.
And so how do we know?
How do we know if it's anexecutive functioning issue or
just a moment in time where it'semotional?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah.
So I would say, if it issystemic, right.
If everybody has one or twodays or even weeks where things
feel really hard, especially intransition, right.
I've now dropped my oldestdaughter off, or she's gone off
twice now and you know twoseparate years.
(20:17):
She's going, she's a risingjunior and it doesn't get easier
.
I thought it would, but everytime she leaves a little piece
of my heart breaks.
And she's actually in your neckof the woods, she's in New York
City.
I live in San Diego, so aboutas far away in the continental
United States as you can be, andit's hard.
(20:37):
And so there is time, I wouldsay, for a whole family, even
for her younger siblings, wherewe all feel a little off kilter.
We walk past her room and feela little sad, the dogs go in
there, which kind of breaks yourheart.
But then we regulate, right.
It's not that we don't miss her, it's not that we wish she
wasn't with us, but we get intoour new routine.
I would say if you are in trueexecutive dysfunction, you don't
(20:59):
ever really, after severalweeks, even get back into that
normal routine.
It keeps going on and on.
And the things that you used todo pretty easily, or the things
that you, you felt or you feellike you should quote unquote, I
hate that word should but youshould be able to do.
You just can't, don't seem tobe able to do with any sort of
(21:21):
ease, then I would say you'reprobably in a slump of executive
dysfunction.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Okay.
So I would say people who aremy clients listen to the show it
is.
They would characterize that asfeeling lost, like they come
home they've dropped the lastone off or it doesn't matter,
one of them off, and all theyseem to be able to do is I can
sweep the floor in the kitchen.
It seems like it's never enoughand that's all I can manage to
(21:48):
do.
That's all that feels goodenough for me to do, but
everything else in life justmaybe has lost its flavor and I
can't get motivated to doanything else to go for a walk,
to go to a gym, to grocery shopregularly, to clean anything out
, to move forward with anything.
That sounds more like it couldhave been or could be an
executive functioning disorder.
(22:09):
Is that sounds correct?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
100, 100.
I feel like you just like check, check, check, check, check of
pretty much all my clients.
So you, just, you just createdmy like perfect client.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Perfect client list.
Yeah, and it's interestingbecause my clients many of them
are the same, and so it's a mix,I think, of the emotional
rollercoaster ride and executivefunction disorder, whereas I'm
just stuck is the best way todescribe it.
I'm stuck.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, for sure.
And, like I said earlier,there's lots of things that can
put us in chronic executivedysfunction and trauma.
Or big life change is a big one, whether it's divorce or a
child leaving or a death in yourfamily that you know to get
neurological just really quickit ignites that amygdala part of
our brain which is our fight,flight or freeze because we
(23:01):
don't feel safe.
Right, our body is our bodydoesn't know why our?
Speaker 3 (23:03):
because we don't feel safe right.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Our body doesn't know why Our bodies are we getting
attacked by a bear?
Or did we drop off our kid atcollege?
I don't know.
So I'm just going to act likewe're getting attacked by a bear
, just in case.
And so when we do that, whenthe amygdala is lit up, that
prefrontal cortex actually doesphysically go offline.
Because when we are in a spacewhere we're getting attacked by
(23:27):
a bear, we don't want to thinkcritically right, we don't want
to have time management, wedon't want to like pause and
decide what to do.
We need to react.
And so when that's happeningfor a really long time, that's
really hard on our bodies andour nervous systems.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yeah.
So if you're wrapped in ablanket with a coffee mug
listening to this episode onyour couch right now, after
possibly dropping your kid off,or they left her summer camp, or
whatever it may be, you'reexactly where you need to be.
Exactly Like listening to thisepisode, because this is what
we're talking about.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
And taking care of yourself.
Right, wrap yourself in thatweighted blanket, get your
favorite drink.
Take care of your nervoussystem, because if your nervous
system is not is workingovertime, you're not going to be
able to do those other thingsphysically.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
So what are some tools?
You talked a little bit aboutthat, but what are some more
tools or mindset shifts thatpeople can do in order to help
jumpstart this, so that they getback to feeling okay.
Life feels good to me.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
One thing that I do with all of my clients is which
is not part of executivefunctioning, but it's like the
bridge to executive functioningchallenges Our support is
building self compassion.
So if you have been living inexecutive function challenge for
a long time whether it's sinceyou're a little kid or, you know
, recently in midlife, becauseof hormones or dropping someone
(24:48):
off or life change we tend toget in a failure feedback loop.
So I will use the sweeping thefloor as an example, since you
brought that up.
I have to sweep the floor todayafter dinner.
I have to do it.
Dinner happens, you sit on thecouch.
You just can't.
You can't physically do it, youcan't emotionally do.
(25:08):
It Seems so simple and you justkeep telling yourself just do
it, just do it.
Why can't you do this?
This is so easy, just do it.
Then our body reacts to thatstress in that fight or flight
and so we actually it makes iteven harder and then we get in
that failure feedback loop andso that happens that's just one
(25:30):
example of you can imagine,throughout the day of all of the
times.
And if you are someone withADHD.
Research shows that ADHDers get20,000 more negative messages
by the time they reach middleschool than neurotypical kids,
whether they're diagnosed or not, and so think about that when
(25:51):
your brain is developing.
You've had so much negativefeedback.
Why can't you do this?
Just pay attention.
You're late again.
Wait, why can't you turn inthat homework?
You forgot it.
You lost it right All the time.
So building self-compassion isessential, no matter whether
(26:11):
it's been 40 years or one month,and self-compassion is treating
yourself with kindness andcuriosity and love, regardless
of what's going on around you,regardless of if you've sweeped
the floor, regardless of if youreturn that phone call,
regardless of if you got theproject for work in on time.
And so building that is reallyimportant and really hard.
(26:34):
It's not easy.
So I suggest with just startingwith paying attention to what
your brain is telling you andthen writing it down, physically
, seeing it and if it is nottruthful or kind, crossing it
off and reframing it.
So I'll use the sweeping thefloor.
(26:55):
Why can't you just sleep thefloor?
You're so lazy.
Everyone else in the world issweeping their floors every
night.
Well, that's not true.
Not everyone is doing that.
It's also not kind to callyourself lazy.
So crossing it off and thenmaybe saying this is really hard
for me right now because I'mjust trying to get through.
Every day I'm missing my kid.
My routine has completelychanged so I'm going to sweep
(27:18):
the floor, maybe tomorrowmorning when I have more energy
and just allowing yourself thatreframe.
Tomorrow morning when I havemore energy and just allowing
yourself that reframe.
And the more we do that, themore we see what we're saying to
ourselves and that physicalcross off and reframe, the
easier it becomes a little bitmore automatic and we start to
see, wow, we really don't treatourselves very kindly.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Yeah, we don't speak to ourselves, kindly, it's.
How is that thought serving meright now?
Is it really serving me to beatmyself up, or can I think of it
a little bit differently?
It's okay if I'm on the floortonight.
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And the other thing to start, the foundation of it
is keeping track of what is inyour control, and I love this.
Yesterday I took my highschooler to a college showcase.
She's a water polo player andthey had an Olympian there and
she sat them all in a circle onthe gym floor and the whole talk
was about what is in yourcontrol and how can you come
(28:14):
back to that over and over.
And so I'm so grateful she'stelling this to 16-year-old
athletes, because a lot feelsout of their control.
She's telling this to 16 yearold athletes because a lot feels
out of their control.
Sure, and the same thing for usas midlife adults, right is,
what is in our control?
And if something feels out ofour control, is there something
that we can do to respond to itrather than react?
(28:37):
And so if we start to do that,we start to see, well, there's a
lot more that's in our controlthan feels in our control, and
then we can start to create somereactions to those that feel a
little bit more helpful to getus out of that.
And then the third is honestlyplanning, rest and recharge.
(29:00):
And when I say rest it doesn'tmean like laying on your bed.
It might, but there's severaldifferent kinds of rest.
There's physical rest, there'smental rest, there's emotional
rest.
And so planning that andputting it in your calendar and
giving yourself time to rechargeand regulate right now in life
(29:21):
is not, it's not a yeah, Ishould do that, it's essential.
You plug in your phone, youplug in your computer, right,
there's all those analogies.
You can't pour from an emptycup, it's all so true.
So if you don't take time to dothat hobby you really love, or
to go on the walk with your dog,or to meditate or pray or
(29:42):
whatever emotionally orspiritually helps you.
You can't, you're going to burnout.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yeah, I love how you framed rest in multiple ways
right Than just saying youshould rest and take care of
yourself because people are likerest means oh, I should be
sleeping for a while, or asopposed to saying no, it can be
multiple different ways to takecare of yourself.
So I love that too In thisjourney, especially at midlife.
I was never a napper myself,but I have come to love an hour
(30:10):
nap with some positivemeditation music on a couple of
times a week just to reset andreframe, and it's so good for my
brain and then I also just askmy brain questions there to let
it process during that time too,and it's a wonderful way to do
that.
I'm curious through thisjourney of yours, corey, you've
done a lot of work, obviously inan executive function and
(30:31):
helping people, but what's onething you've learned about
yourself in this journey?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Oh, just one thing, a million things.
Do we have another hour on?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
this podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think the big thing that I have learned and this is
I say this all the time is Iused to tell everyone everyone
would say how do you do it all?
And I used to tell everyonethat I had a giant Thanksgiving
platter.
Some people have a plate rightA lot on their plate.
I'm like I just have this giantThanksgiving platter.
I can do it all, I can say itall, I can be on every committee
(31:03):
.
It was not true, I was lying tothem and I was lying to myself.
I really had a really smallplate and it was just piled
really high and things weregetting lost in it and it was
cracking and I was droppingthings.
And so I have really learnedwhat my capacity is.
And going back to what's in mycontrol it's not in my control
what other people's capacity is.
(31:24):
So some people might have abigger capacity.
That doesn't make them a betterperson.
That doesn't make them a betterparent.
And once I set boundaries whichare really hard, but I practice
and I practice and I startedreally taking care of myself in
ways that were right for me andnot just what I thought I should
do my whole life view changed.
(31:47):
My relationship with my kidsgot so much better because I
wasn't rushing all the time orout all the time or forgetting
things or yelling at them forthings that weren't their fault
and they were my fault becausewe were overscheduled.
My relationship with my husbandchanged, with my friends, and
so figuring out what my capacityis at this time in my life, it
(32:10):
was a game changer and I have tocome back to it often because
it's really easy to let thatplate get bigger and let things
sneak in.
But I reassess that all thetime and I think to myself okay,
what kind of life do I want tolive and how do I want to show
up?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, Two great questions.
How do I want to show up inthis life that I want to live?
It's amazing, right, yeah?
So when I think about that, doyou have a life motto?
I know you're not an empty nestor just yet, so got one one in
that journey, but if you had anempty nest, life motto or life
motto, what would it be?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
That's a great question.
I think it would be that showup every day like it's a new day
, and I think that's reallyimportant for people like me
that have neurodiverse brains,because we are a little bit like
goldfish and every day feelslike a new day and it's really
easy to bring shame and anxietyand guilt from previous days.
(33:10):
So show up like every day is anew day and just figure out
what's going to happen that dayand how you want to show up and
then do it and honor how youfeel that day, whether it's a
day you're going to get a lotdone and go for it or a day
you're going to take a nap andtake it slow.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
So good.
Yeah, it's like those graphicswhere it's showing up every day
is like people think it's a fullcup every day, but it's really
a full cup, a half a cup, aquarter cup, no cup.
That's what showing up everyday is.
It's like how it works for youand I so appreciate you bringing
to the table in thisconversation today around how
you know what, if you thinkyou're abnormal, you're really
(33:49):
normal for you as an individualand I think that might be the
biggest takeaway from today'sepisode.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Awesome.
I love that as a takeaway.
I think that's really important, for sure.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
That's so good, Corey .
Thank you so much for beinghere.
I thoroughly enjoyed theconversation for sure.
That's so good, corey.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
I thoroughly enjoyed theconversation.
It's where I live every day andI hope, folks, if you're
listening, that you take alittle bit away from this.
We're going to put all ofCorey's information in the show
notes.
If you feel like you'restruggling with this ADHD and
not feeling like you're livingefficiently or calmly or
balanced, you can reach out toher and get in touch.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Thanks so much for being on the show.
Thank you Loved it.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Are you ready to start living and enjoying your
empty nest years?
If so, head over tojasonramsdencom and click work
with me to get the conversationstarted.
This Empty Nest Life is aproduction of Impact.
One Media LLC.
All rights reserved.
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