September 13, 2025 • 41 mins
Resilience isn't just a helpful skill—it's essential for thriving, especially when navigating the emotional landscape of the empty nest. In this empowering episode, life strategist, bestselling author, positive psychology expert, and
motivational speaker Valorie Burton shares transformative insights from her latest book, Rules of Resilience, offering practical tools for parents to not only survive but flourish during this major life transition.
We explore key concepts such as controlling what you can, finding opportunities within challenges, and understanding “growth gaps” and “energy gaps” that impact your ability to adapt. Valorie’s authenticity shines as she discusses the importance of honesty about struggles and leveraging your resources—relationships, past experiences, and inner strength—to navigate change confidently.
Highlights & Key Takeaways:
- “Choose thoughts that strengthen you” to manage anxiety and maintain positivity.
- “Control the controllable and accept the rest” to focus energy effectively.
- “Rally your resources”: lean on relationships, experiences, and inner strength.
- Recognize “growth gaps” and “energy gaps” to prevent burnout.
- Find opportunities in every challenge to turn loss into possibility.
Valorie Burton Bio
A renowned author, speaker, and founder of The Coaching and Positive Psychology (CaPP) Institute, specializing in resilience and happiness. With over 15 years of research and practical experience, she has authored thirteen books including It’s About Time, Successful Women Think Differently, and Brave Enough to Succeed. She is an accomplished international speaker and life coach dedicated to empowering individuals to thrive amidst life's challenges.
Her core belief is that understanding your purpose and resilience are key to living a fulfilled, authentic life. She emphasizes that resilience—the ability to adapt and bounce back from setbacks—is a skill that can be learned and cultivated. Through her work, she helps clients build this vital skill, choose meaning over urgency, and develop confidence to make bold life changes.
Find Valorie Online: Pre-Order Book, Instagram, Website
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We need resilience like never before.
Our kids need resilience morethan ever before.
I feel strongly.
It should be taught in everyschool, in every workplace, in
every family.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to this Empty Nest Life.
Join Jay Ramsden as he leadsyou on a transformative journey
through the uncharted seas ofmidlife and empty nesting.
If you're ready to embark onthis new adventure and redefine
your future, you're in the rightplace.
Here's your host, the EmptyNest Coach, Jay Ramston.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Hey there, my Empty Nest friends.
One key to life is beingresilient and, as a parent, it's
something you've learned alongthe way in raising your kids,
whether you realize it or not.
All those late nights, theworries, the figuring it out it
all helped you develop yourresilience.
In being a parent, you eventaught those same lessons to
your children, but then, whenyour kids had out the door, all
(00:54):
those lessons seemed to leaveyour brain in an instant.
Well, today we're in studiowith Valerie Burton, the author
of Rules of Resilience.
You may recognize her from theToday Show or CNN, where she is
frequently featured as theirgo-to life coach.
Valerie is also the very firstcoach I hired, so I'm thrilled
she's here with us today.
Valerie, welcome to this EmptyNest Life.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Thank you, Jay.
It's so good to be with you andespecially to talk about this
topic of empty nesting.
We're like partially there, butnot completely.
You've got one more, You've gotone more to go.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
So you're an in-between nester, as they may
say.
Yes, yeah, and I think it's sotimely of a conversation because
so many people just wentthrough college drop-off and
move-in.
They're all back home and yourbook is coming out here in the
middle of September.
What caught me about the book?
Obviously, there's 10 rulesthat you have, which they're all
phenomenal, but the one I thinkthat's most important for us to
(01:52):
dive into right now is rulenumber two, because you know,
resilience is one of thosethings that, yes, we know it
inherently, but when those oldheartstrings get tugged during
the emptiness transition, Ithink it just flies right off
our brains.
But the second one, that was,choose thoughts that strengthen
you, was one that I thought well, let's start there and see
(02:12):
where this conversation takes us.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, you know, a huge piece of resilience is
about adaptive skills.
I talk about this, this verysimple framework for for
building your own personalsystem of resilience, and
probably the most powerfuladaptive skill is how you think
in the face of a challenge, of achange.
What are you saying to yourself?
(02:35):
And I can give you an exampleof this.
We dropped off my youngestbonus daughters I have two bonus
daughters and a son are myyoungest bonus daughters.
I have two bonus daughters anda son.
My youngest bonus daughterstarted college in August, but
she's not far from home.
She's in downtown Atlanta.
But our oldest is a junior andmy husband flew with her to the
(02:56):
Netherlands because she is doinga study abroad.
This is the kid who, in middleschool, when I had a speaking
engagement at UGA in Athens,georgia, which is two hours from
where I live, said she didn'twant to go to UGA because it was
too far away.
Now she goes to college inRhode Island and she's studying
abroad, on another continent.
(03:18):
And the thoughts right Like itcan be hard enough to drop your
kid off at college, but to dropthem off on another continent
and go back home.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Ah, yes, yes, I have a couple of people who've
reached out in my circles.
They live, like in the UK andtheir kids are coming to the US
and they're having the exactsame thoughts like, oh my god,
they are a continent away.
And what does that mean for meas a parent?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, so one I think it's important, like for one of
my, like literally putting thisrule to use one of mine was
noticing the thoughts.
What am I saying?
Cause I was catastrophizing.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Of course, yeah, welcome to being a parent, right
.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Very, very short period of time, but sometimes
what we need is when we needperspective, right.
So perspective can be talkingto others who've been through
something similar, talking tothose who are familiar, like the
number of people who've been toAmsterdam recently, how safe
Amsterdam is.
But, more importantly, she's acautious young woman.
(04:22):
She handles herself well.
This is, you know, study abroadis something I thought about in
college.
I never did and I'm excited forher.
And you know, just even in our,in our, in our WhatsApp
conversations, you know whatshe's learning, what she's
noticing, even just after acouple of weeks.
So, choosing thoughts thatstrengthen us in our situation
(04:45):
is noticing.
Okay, what did we already teach?
What are the good things aboutthis?
And hey, it's only natural tohave fear when you stretch way
out of your comfort zone.
It doesn't mean run in theother direction, doesn't mean we
made the wrong decision.
It means I've got to managethose thoughts and I should
expect them.
Which, jay, is the first ruleof resilience Expect.
(05:08):
The unexpected.
Part of it is expecting thatthings might be hard or feel
difficult, and that's normal,which kind of lowers the
temperature on whatever you'refeeling in terms of stress,
because you realize like whatkind of parent would I be if I
didn't have any concerns?
Of course you have concerns.
(05:29):
This is just part of theprocess.
Now let's just keep movingforward.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, I think it's such an important one too.
It's like I can imagine parentssaying, oh hey, I wish I would
have known this rule before andkind of would have been able to
implement it.
But how do I even pass it alongto my kids?
Because they're going throughit, they're trying to be
resilient, they're trying,they're in a new spot, learning
everything, new, new dailyroutine, new people, new places
to go, and I think it's like howdo we help our kids with it as
(05:56):
well?
So have you done that with yourchild who's gone off to the
Netherlands?
Have you imparted some wisdomfrom rule two?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Well, the exciting thing to me is I was concerned
that she would be anxious, right, and so it's been more of my
questions how are you feelingabout this?
How are you?
You're?
You know, I know you're in aplace with a lot of other
students who are from overseas,but you're in your spot by
yourself.
Are you okay with that?
There's not a roommate.
She's like oh, actually, I likethe time to myself and she's
(06:29):
talking about who she's meeting,all the different countries
that they're from in this Dutchuniversity that she's going to.
She's fine, and that actually,for me, was very helpful, I
think in part because she madethe decision.
This is something she wanted todo and we wanted to support her
in it.
Now there are sometimeschallenges where you know maybe
(06:50):
they are struggling.
So, with my son, for example,he was starting some new stuff
yesterday and we actually had aconversation about his thoughts.
He had his first day ofcross-country practice in middle
school, and so you know we weretalking about like, what were
the thoughts that weren'tworking?
How did you change them?
And he said today, probably thehardest thought, mom was, I
(07:15):
wanted to do cross country and Ihad to run three miles.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
That's a tough, tough thought yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And he said and so I was thinking I can't do this he
said but I did notice it and Ijust told myself this is hard,
but I can get through this.
And I thought, wow, and thatreally was from conversations
we've had over time, I alsoshare where I struggle.
So I think that's helpfulbecause I think sometimes and
(07:45):
you know, if you grew up in ahousehold where your parents
didn't share their thoughts,their negative emotions or talk
it through, you could feel likethe adults always have it
together.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Even as I was writing this book, I would tell Alex
like mommy's beenprocrastinating, like it's all
in my thinking it has to bewritten perfectly, which I know
is not true.
So I'm giving myself permissiontoday, alex, to write badly.
Editing's a separate, that's aseparate gig.
I get to just get it on thepage.
(08:18):
It doesn't have to look justright, because that's not the
part we're going to publish, butI got to have somewhere to
start.
I think one of the things thatcan be helpful for us as parents
is acknowledging how hard it isfor us as I try to help my son
in particular, navigateelectronics like they're
addictive.
So I'll say, yeah, call me out,alex, if you see me on the
(08:42):
phone too much.
He does not hesitate to do so.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
But I'll just say it's hard.
Like this is designed to keepyou holding it, so it's not just
you.
I'm not fussing at you aboutelectronics.
This is hard for everybody.
So we've got to notice it,We've got to give our brain
breaks.
I have found that that worksvery well for young kids, but
(09:07):
also for the older ones, becauseyou're having real talk about
real struggles and you're notpretending that you have it all
together and they need to justfigure it out.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, I think what you were talking about parents
and kind of showcasing how to beresilient or share about their
feelings or their struggles andI know, like our generation of
parents, our parents that wasprobably not the norm whatsoever
.
It was probably the minority offolks who actually demonstrated
(09:34):
that for their kids.
So for people who are listening, I imagine they're saying, well
, my parents didn't do that.
How do I even get started inbeing resilient for my kids or
showcasing what that looks like?
What would you say to them?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Well, authenticity is a hallmark of resilience.
So I'd start with honesty.
You know I'm realizing maybe Ihaven't always shared with you
some of my struggles and thingsthat are hard for me, and I'm
really working on being moreresilient, in part because I
want to help you do that.
Let's talk about what thatmeans, right, and even
(10:11):
acknowledging like your kidshave been resilient, so helping
them identify like what's thebiggest challenge you've
overcome.
How'd you do that?
How might you apply what youlearned there to this current
challenge?
Like really affirming them forwhat they're doing well, to
build up their confidence thatthey already are resilient All
of us are, sometimes we forgethow we've been resilient and to
(10:35):
pull those lessons into thecurrent challenge.
So I think, being veryauthentic and saying I'm on this
journey and it occurs to methat there's this part of
parenting that maybe I haven'treally done very much and I'd
like to start.
So they're in on that changeand they're not going.
What's going on with dad?
He's journaling.
(10:56):
Now he's coaching.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Exactly, Exactly, I think well, I love it for my
kids because I talk about thisin my world is like you have to
be an example of what's possiblefor the kids, and I think
learning how to this I thinkplays right into rule number
four is showcasing like how youcan actually can control the
(11:19):
controllable and just accept therest.
I think that's a huge part ofgrowth and in this emptiness
life, I think parents lose sightof that.
What's been your experience inwriting the book and sharing
that rule with folks?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So control the controllable and accept the rest
is one of my favorite rules.
It taps into the researcharound locus of control having
an internal versus an externallocus of control.
The most successful resilientpeople have an internal locus of
control.
Having an internal versus anexternal locus of control.
The most successful resilientpeople have an internal locus of
control, which means they focuson what they have control over.
Things like I have control overmy attitude.
(11:55):
I have control over whatactions I choose to take.
Next, you may have control overapologizing or forgiving
somebody, depending on what thesituation is.
You don't have controloverizing or forgiving somebody,
you know, depending on what thesituation is.
You don't have control over,for example, the decisions your
company is going to make or youknow what's going on in
government, et cetera.
Like you can influence as muchas possible and you can make
(12:19):
choices that help influence, butin terms of the things you
actually control, you controlwhat comes out of your mouth
help influence, but in terms ofthe things you actually control,
you control what comes out ofyour mouth.
You control whether you decideto get a little more sleep or
engage in some healthier habitsor learn something new.
So really, looking at what do Icontrol?
It lowers your stress level.
It definitely makes you moreresilient, because you're not
(12:41):
wasting energy over focusing andworrying about things that you
absolutely have no control over,like other people.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Oh, exactly Right, they have no control of what
they say or what they think.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, if I could just get him to do X or to change
that or to stop doing.
And if there's somebody in yourlife that you are thinking of
as I say that and you've beendoing that for a year, two years
, 10 years, it's like except therest, that does not mean that
you approve of it.
It doesn't even mean thatyou're okay with it or you're
(13:17):
embracing it.
It means that you're looking atit and you go.
I don't have control over that.
It is what it is and you go.
I don't have control over that.
It is what it is.
Now, in light of what it is,how do I want to show up?
What choices do I want to make?
What adjustments would help meadapt better or still get to my
goal in spite of?
(13:38):
That's what it means to controlthe controllable.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I love that, and I was just talking to a client
about this just yesterday.
We were going through access tome, right my brain, my time, my
energy and they were strugglingwith that concept.
So I think that's I thinkthat's a really good way to kind
of share that with folks today.
That's how you can control.
The controllable is like whatdo I have control of Yep I have,
(14:02):
that I have control of howpeople have access to me is like
what do I have control of?
Yep I have?
I have control of how peoplehave access to me, have access
to my time and my energy, andit's such a.
It's a great example of that.
For for I've run into people whomaybe you said your daughter.
It was her choice to go to theNetherlands to go to school, but
some parents push their kidstowards a certain school and
sometimes it doesn't always workout right.
(14:24):
The kids are miserable and thenthe parents feel guilty that
they pushed in that direction.
And so when you talk aboutchoosing thoughts that
strengthen you, some of thosethoughts are really detrimental,
I think, to the relationship.
What would you say to somebodywho's in that spot?
Because I have people wholisten who are in that spot.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
So give me an example of like one of the thoughts
that might be coming to a parent.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Oh, absolutely I screwed up.
My kid's life is probably thenumber one.
Thought they're miserable and Idid this to them.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
So, um, first you got to define screwed up their life
.
Let's put it all intoperspective.
Sometimes we have to do thatfrom a place of gratitude.
I'm grateful that my kid wentoff to college.
I'm grateful that they'rehealthy.
I'm grateful that I'm havingand I'm noticing that maybe this
(15:19):
was not the right choice.
Can I have an honest?
conversation about that, right,so I think when we make mistakes
, like we're human, we do thatand in fact, pushing a child in
a particular direction often iscoming from a place of trying to
help, even if it's misguided.
(15:40):
We want the best for our kidsand as parents, I really believe
the vast majority we do thebest that we can and we can look
back and go.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I wish I hadn't done that because, hindsight, of
course, we see very clearly.
Oh yeah, absolutely, mondaymorning quarterback right being
able to see exactly what thepath may have been.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
The question becomes so what now?
Right, I cannot control what Idid in the past, where we are
now, but I can control where wego from here.
I can control next steps frommy perspective, and this
sometimes means big changes.
It means open, honestconversations, right, and so I
(16:25):
think that's really important.
You know, I spent my first yearof college as a cadet at the
Air Force Academy.
I had pretty much decided thatthat wasn't the direction I
wanted to go.
It was all I knew.
I was born in an Air Force basemy dad's retired Air Force and
it was an honor.
And we moved to Colorado when Iwas in the fifth grade, wrote
my term paper on the Academy asa ninth grader and said that's
(16:47):
where I'm going.
But you know, somewhere alongthe way after I'd applied, I
thought maybe that wasn't it.
But once I got in, you know, myparents thought otherwise.
Plus, it was a complete fullride.
It was such an honor, it waslike, and my dad was enlisted.
So this idea that, like mydaughter's going to go, she's
(17:14):
going to be an officer, and itdidn't go well, and I was there
for a year and decided to leave.
I'm not even sure.
I was probably well intoadulthood, before you know, had
the conversation with my mom.
Like you, told me I was notgoing to these other schools.
I got a scholarship, so she'slike I did.
There were a lot of dynamics tothat.
At some point, if we're, ifwe're super honest and open,
(17:34):
forgiveness is needed on bothsides, right.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
So important yes.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
And then like, is there a lesson in this for all
of us?
Is there a message?
Like I can't say I regret it.
I learned a lot about myselfand then I chose a new path and
even in that new path, you know,I was doing some things that
were like overcompensating fornot having good grades there and
oh, I'll get through collegefast and I'll finish early and
(18:00):
I'll go to grad school and I'llfinish at 21.
And then, like, oh my gosh, Ijust started enjoying the
journey.
Like, even in all of that,there are many things that
happened because of that firstyear, and yet life turned out
fine.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, More than fine, I would say.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yes, more than fine, and I don't think that was my
path.
I think that is an excellentpath and I think you know we're
very blessed to have people thatserve, like my dad did for 24
years, but that wasn't mycalling.
We just have to accept thatlife doesn't always go as
(18:40):
planned, that, of course, if wecould go back and make different
decisions, you might make adifferent decision about that ex
that you you know that you werewith for way too long.
Or you know some career choicethat you made because you felt
pressured into it and throughall of that.
If you grow through it and youdon't just go through it, you
come out with wisdom, you comeout stronger.
(19:02):
If you look to like that's huge.
I mean there's this researcharound post-traumatic growth,
which I think is fascinating.
A lot of it comes out of theUniversity of North Carolina.
And when people understandgoing into difficulties, if they
understand that PTSD isn't theonly option because we all think
(19:23):
of that, like that can be veryreal.
But if you realize I'm about togo through something really
hard and I could grow as aresult of it, that people are
actually more likely to grow,they actually lower their stress
and anxiety because they gointo it saying I know this will
be hard, but I could actuallyglean something good out of it.
(19:46):
That doesn't mean that youwould choose to go through that
awful health challenge or losethe job or whatever the case,
but on the other side of it it'spossible that you're expanded
in some way and you're better insome way, and that in itself is
a big part of what resiliencereally really is.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
So, yeah, this happened for me instead of
happened to me, I think is theway people often talk about that
.
It's interesting when you'retalking about that scenario,
when you think about kind ofrule number five, I think this
maybe plays into.
It is like when people aregoing through it in the moment,
it's like Ooh, how do I, how doI rally my resources when I'm in
(20:29):
the thick of it?
What might that look like forthem?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah.
So that rule is rally yourresources, which is
relationships, it's pastexperience, it's training, it's
access to resources, anythingthat helps you get through the
challenge, money you saved.
And so it's, I think, reallyimportant in the midst of your
challenge to ask that questionwhat past experience can I lean
(20:58):
on?
What resources do I have?
Who do I know?
Who's been there and done that?
Who do I know of?
You might not even know theperson, but there may be an
example of someone whosuccessfully moved through a
challenge and you take lessonsand you apply those.
And the access to resources Ithink is really big too, because
(21:21):
sometimes it's not that youhave the resources, but there
may be somebody that you knowand they're like, oh, you need
to go talk to this person.
Or hey, I have this, you canuse this to get through this
particular challenge.
And I think in the empty nestlife, I think one of the most
important things is having yourpeers that are going through the
(21:42):
same thing and talk.
You know who can you talk to,like there are going to be
others who have similar feelingsor they might have a different,
better perspective.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Right, that you need that because oftentimes, if
things aren't going well in theemptiness transition, people
don't talk about it because theyare afraid that everybody else
seems like they're just having aball and I'm not.
I'm struggling with this and soit's like I'm not going to talk
(22:14):
about it.
Why would I put myself outthere and talk about that
instance?
But I think your point is valid.
It's like no, there's resourcesout there, including your
friends and family.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, yeah, and so that means being willing to ask
for help, being willing to havethose conversations, is a big
part of it, and so you got towork those resilience muscles,
you know, and sometimes that'sdoing things that are
uncomfortable, things that youwouldn't typically do Resilient
people do not go it aloneuncomfortable things that you
wouldn't typically do Resilientpeople do not go it alone.
(22:42):
It's a great point.
There are these extra bonuspoints for I didn't have to call
anybody.
I didn't have to.
You know, don't do that.
Rally your resources, find thatcommunity and sometimes it
means you know, set thoseboundaries.
There may be somebody thatyou're giving a lot of room to
speak into your life.
(23:03):
It's way too much negativity orpessimism and it's not helping
you move in the right direction.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, that's a great point, and I think to.
Another step in this is when wewere talking about people not
sharing what they're strugglingwith.
Another that's what I loveabout your book it just so ties
into everything is that don'tpretend and don't defend.
All right, If you are having atime, bad time, don't, don't
pretend that you're not.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yes, yes, yes.
So that was one of the firstrules that I that I developed
Don't pretend, don't defend.
Don't pretend things are okaywhen they're not, and don't
defend things that you don'tneed to defend because it was a
mistake, it was something youdid wrong.
It's kind of like you saying,if you pushed your kid in one
direction and you realize nowit's not good, don't keep
(23:52):
defending that.
You can say I was doing what Ithought was going to be the best
option.
I was trying to help and I'mrealizing now that perhaps it
wasn't.
It wasn't the most helpfuloption and I'm sorry.
So let's talk about where weare right.
(24:14):
Let's talk about the overallvision.
I mean, ultimately, as parents,what are we trying to do?
We're trying to help the kidslaunch.
We're trying to help preparethem so that they can succeed in
the world.
Right, be resilient.
So when you defend things thatyou're wrong, so just say you're
wrong.
(24:43):
Of resilience, this particularrule don't pretend and don't
defend is essential.
And so where in your life areyou pretending things are okay
that aren't, and where might yoube defensive?
And you know when you'redefensive, because it's like
somebody pushes a button and youknow you talk a lot.
You talk about why it's reallyokay and you're.
You know you get upset veryeasily and take a breath.
Be honest, find the grain oftruth.
(25:08):
Sometimes people can criticizeus harshly and all of what
they're saying might not be true, but there might be a small
piece that you could acknowledgeand there's an opportunity
there for growth, forreconciliation, for being more
resilient.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
What a powerful two sentences too, I thought, and
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I thought and I was wrong.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
And it's okay, and to be able to exemplify that for
our kids, to be able to showthem it's okay to say I thought
this and you know.
You know what I was wrong, thiswasn't the right approach.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
It's very healing in our relationships.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
So good.
You know it's very healing whenyou tell somebody you hurt me or
this was not right, and theperson takes a breath and says,
yeah, I see why you feel thatway yeah, yeah, I see why you
feel that way and one of thethings, uh, in my leadership
training when I was working inschool is we worked with the
center for creative leadershipin greensboro, north carolina,
(26:08):
and they taught us sbi, which issituation, behavior and impact.
Just to approach somebody, say,remember this, here's the
behavior that took place andhere's the impact it had on me.
You can also work that inreverse to say here's the
situation, here's my behaviorand the impact I feel impact it
had on me.
You can also work that inreverse and say here's the
situation.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Here's my behavior and the impact I feel like it
had on you.
Yeah, so good, it's powerful.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Two things you talk about which I think people, if
they pick up the book and lookat the chapters, would be like
what the heck are those things?
Which is the growth gap and theenergy gap.
What are those.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Oh, my goodness.
So this is.
This is like two of thesethings that I kind of stumbled
upon and really developed, uh,over time and realized how much
they resonate.
So growth gaps we all have them.
We tend to set goals as um,performance goals as very
measurable, like I can seewhether you got it or not.
(27:00):
You wanted to save a certainamount of money, you wanted to
have this certain relationship,you wanted to get this certain
job, you wanted to launch thisbusiness.
Um, that, they're very easy.
You want to lose this amount ofweight, right, but growth goals
are.
Answer the question how willyou need to grow in order to get
to that?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
goal.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
And we have to have a growth goal that goes along
with the performance goal.
And we have to have a growthgoal that goes along with the
performance goal.
Otherwise, like we'd already bethere, if we use weight as an
example, if I ask you, how doyou lose 15 pounds?
Pretty much the answer is goingto be some combination of move
more, eat better.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
We all know that.
That doesn't mean that we do itright.
So how will you need to grow?
Maybe it's in consistency,maybe it's knowledge, maybe you
don't know what you're doing.
That's kind of messing somethings up or making it harder to
get more fit.
So if you understand how you'llneed to grow, that becomes the
(28:00):
engine for you to get to thevision.
So a growth gap is the gapbetween where you are and where
you will need to be in order toactually get to the goal.
It's very enlightening becausewe can get very frustrated,
focused on the steps.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Exactly, and that's where getting uncomfortable,
being comfortable withuncomfortable thing comes into
play.
Right?
That's the difference betweenwhere you want to be and where
you are now.
Yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
just even one growth gap can move the needle can
really help you get unstuckEnergy gaps, which that's the
(28:46):
10th of the 10 rules is, I think, like for me, this was super
eye-opening.
We tend to not notice how bigour challenges are and how much
energy it actually takes to getthere, and so when we get burned
out or we just can't seem tofind the motivation, it's often
(29:09):
an energy gap.
When your goal or the visionyou have for your life is a 10,
or maybe the challenge you'recurrently dealing with is a 10.
And then I say, well, withright, Is it 10?
And then I say, well, on ascale of one to 10, how much
energy do you have right now?
And you're like it's a five.
So you got a 10 challenge andfive energy.
(29:32):
At some point you're going torun out.
You are not going to get thereand you're wondering why things
that perhaps used to get youexcited you dread them, why you
can't seem to force yourself todo what's needed.
You may need to literallyreplenish your energy.
You are not only operating onreserves.
(29:52):
You've drained the reserves.
You may need more sleep, youmay need a better diet, you may
need to get more exercise.
You may simply need morepositive energy in your life.
We know positive emotion makesyou more resilient and when
you're dealing with negativeafter negative after negative,
like it drains you.
Positive emotion helps you makebetter decisions, set better
(30:15):
goals, you persevere longer, youeven live longer when you have
more positive emotions.
So we've got to manage theenergy and be really sensitive.
Know your kid has left or yourkids are now all out of the
(30:43):
house and that may haveenergized you and you haven't
noticed how that's shifting, howyou feel every single day.
So maybe some self compassion,maybe just kind of getting in
touch more with what energizesyou, finding those old goals and
dreams Right.
So being sensitive that changesin life change your energy,
(31:07):
require different amounts ofenergy and you want to be able
to manage, manage those energygaps.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
I love that.
Yeah, it's just like your whatdo we call it?
Like your social energy tank,right when, when you're dealing
with other people.
And what does that look like,Whether you're an intern or
extrovert in?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, you're like, oh my gosh, all these people, all
these questions, all this smalltalk.
You know that you have toreplenish.
You may need some time, somemore time alone.
I used to say during thepandemic that collectively, as a
society, we often were notnoticing one how the kind of
(31:48):
what was going on globally wasimpacting our energy Absolutely.
How the change and how we wereshowing up or the lack of social
contact we were having comparedto the past.
All of those things you mayneed just to schedule in a nap
once a week you may need to paycloser attention to.
Hey, maybe I need to go to bed30 minutes earlier, or maybe
(32:11):
there's some commitments that Ineed to let go of for a season
so that I have the energy todirect in a new way.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
So good Now in your book, like my favorite rule of
all of them.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
You have not said the favorite one yet.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
My favorite one is find the opportunity in the
challenge, because it'ssomething I talk about all the
time.
The one true constant in lifeis change, and you know, if you
look at the word challenge,change skirts the outside of it.
You know the letters, yeah.
So I always say you know what,in every challenge we have in
(32:48):
life, we have to change in someway, and with every change
there's always challengesembedded in it.
So that's why I love that rule,but tell me more about it,
because I think that's the onepeople will have the hardest
time grasping.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah.
So I think this rule gives alot of hope Find the opportunity
and the challenge.
If you think about your biggestchallenge right now, if you
think about the challenge ofempty nesting, the change of it,
just ask yourself coachyourself with this question
what's the opportunity in thischallenge?
This doesn't have to mean youlike everything about the
(33:20):
challenge.
You might not like anythingabout it, but I guarantee you
there's an opportunity in it.
Maybe there are some things thelast 18, 20, 22 years that
you've put aside and in this newseason you could pick that back
up.
Maybe there's the opportunityfor more rest.
Maybe there's opportunity toconnect with your partner more
(33:43):
deeply.
Or maybe you're the singleparent who you know you haven't
had a partner in a long time andyou didn't want to introduce
that, you know, into the, intothe mix while you're still
raising your kids, like I don'tknow.
Maybe it's opportunity topursue a different career or
just whatever.
I love asking this questionbecause it takes your focus off
(34:09):
of the obstacle that's in frontof you to say, huh, what is the
opportunity that I get?
Because this thing exists and Ithink that's a gift.
It's you looking for the giftin it and unwrapping that gift
and savoring it.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Yeah, what's the opportunity I get to have from
this experience?
I love that.
I love it.
It's so good.
Yeah, the other one too.
And then my final favorite,which I think is the bonus one.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I'm liking that.
It sounds like you got a wholebunch of favorites.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Oh, I do yeah, as an author.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I'm like yes.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
So good.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
That?
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, that was my ultimate favorite was number
eight.
Yeah, find the opportunitychallenge, but the bonus one,
the pay it forward.
I'm a big pay it forward guyand that one I love as well.
So how can people like theyread the book and they're like,
oh yeah, this all works for mehow can they pay it forward?
Think this is the highest levelof resilience?
Where we are resilient, we learnour lessons, we glean the
opportunity and the challengeand then we're able to share
that with whether it's with yourkids, with coworkers, with
(35:26):
friends who may be in the midstof challenges to actually create
a more resilient world aroundyou and for all of us.
And we think about the worldwe're in right now, like there's
more distraction, there's moreuncertainty than ever for most
of us in a generation, I mean,I'm going to say you know,
generations before had a wholelot of other things I'm glad we
(35:48):
don't have to deal with.
But right now, like the sheervolume of change in the last 20,
30 years, even the last fiveyears I mean we've been it feels
like one thing after another ofunexpected challenges and
change.
We need resilience like neverbefore.
(36:10):
Our kids need resilience morethan ever before.
I feel strongly it should betaught in every school, in every
workplace, in every family.
It's why, for me, paying itforward was how do we take the
research of resilience, thecommon sense of resilience,
create a framework and theseeasy to remember rules so that,
(36:31):
even if all you're payingforward is it's the opportunity
and the challenge, or you shouldexpect the unexpected, like you
shouldn't expect that.
You're going to A to Z and it'sa straight line.
So if you expect the unexpected, you're not so shocked.
When things don't go as planned, you change gears and you go
okay.
What rule do I need to apply?
And I think the other thingthat happens is for me and I
(36:54):
talk about this in the book is Ilook back to who paid it
forward for me, because Iguarantee you there is somebody.
If you're resilient, there issomebody from your past that
either inspired you, gave yousome access to resources that
helped you move ahead or getunstuck, and in that is
(37:19):
gratitude and perspective.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
So good.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
It's powerful.
I look a lot back to my owngrandparents and like what their
life was like compared to me.
Even as a kid, it gave me thissense of strength, Like look
what you're coming from, Lookhow far your grandparents came
and doors they opened so thatyou had opportunities that they
(37:46):
could only have dreamed of.
Like you got to run with that,you got to take that baton and
keep going.
So, even when things haven'tgone as planned, it puts it in
perspective.
It does.
It does Problems I'm dealingwith.
Like they didn't even have theopportunity to have these
problems.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
That's a great way to frame it.
I love that so much.
I'm curious, before I let yougo, what's one thing you've
learned about yourself inwriting this book?
Speaker 1 (38:24):
I think I had a struggle in the process that I
had to use my own rules that Iwas writing about to overcome,
and I was resilient in doing so.
My struggle was and it was ashock, because I've been
teaching on resilience since Ifinished grad school in positive
psychology in 08.
(38:44):
And the struggle was well, ifyou think you're going to write
like the go-to book onresilience, then that has to
mean that you're the mostresilient and you've been
through the worst things andyou've been through some stuff.
But like there's other peoplethat blah, blah, blah, and so I
realized I'm just human, likeeverybody else.
(39:04):
I'm not professing to beperfect at it, professing to be
perfect at it.
What I am professing is that mypassion is understanding how
successful people thinkdifferently, do things
differently, researching all ofthat and then packaging it in a
way that's like, hey, this isreal practical and I really
(39:27):
believe it will help you,because success requires
resilience.
It's not just for the negativethings we go through in life.
If you want happy relationships, if you want financial
independence, if you want betterhealth, if you want to change
careers, any of those successthings require resilience.
So I think what I had to learnis the stuff I'm writing about.
(39:50):
I deal with it every single dayand I've put all these rules to
the test and I believe in them,not just because they're rooted
in research, but because I usethem.
And yeah, I don't use themperfectly, but when I get back
on track with them, they work.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Yeah, that's it.
I love that point and folkslike the success piece in your
emptiness life is learning howto be more resilient, not just
for you, but for your family andyour kids and everyone else.
So, valerie, thank you so muchfor being here today and
allowing me to pay it forwardfor all you've taught me in both
my personal and my coachinglife.
It's been a true honor andprivilege to have this
(40:30):
conversation with you.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Jay, I've so enjoyed the conversation.
I feel very blessed to havebeen a part of your journey,
your coaching journey and to getto have this conversation with
you today has just been awesome,so thank you.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
My pleasure, folks.
Rules of Resilience.
Out September 16th it's goingto be available in all places
you can buy your book, so runout and grab it.
It is a must-have in yourlibrary.
Thanks again, valerie,appreciate you being here.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Thanks, Jay.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Are you ready to start living and enjoying your
empty nest years?
If so, head over tojasonramsdencom and click work
with me to get the conversationstarted.
This Empty Nest Life is aproduction of Impact.
One Media LLC.
All rights reserved.
We need resilience like never before.
Our kids need resilience morethan ever before.
I feel strongly.
It should be taught in everyschool, in every workplace, in
every family.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to this Empty Nest Life.
Join Jay Ramsden as he leadsyou on a transformative journey
through the uncharted seas ofmidlife and empty nesting.
If you're ready to embark onthis new adventure and redefine
your future, you're in the rightplace.
Here's your host, the EmptyNest Coach, Jay Ramston.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Hey there, my Empty Nest friends.
One key to life is beingresilient and, as a parent, it's
something you've learned alongthe way in raising your kids,
whether you realize it or not.
All those late nights, theworries, the figuring it out it
all helped you develop yourresilience.
In being a parent, you eventaught those same lessons to
your children, but then, whenyour kids had out the door, all
(00:54):
those lessons seemed to leaveyour brain in an instant.
Well, today we're in studiowith Valerie Burton, the author
of Rules of Resilience.
You may recognize her from theToday Show or CNN, where she is
frequently featured as theirgo-to life coach.
Valerie is also the very firstcoach I hired, so I'm thrilled
she's here with us today.
Valerie, welcome to this EmptyNest Life.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Thank you, Jay.
It's so good to be with you andespecially to talk about this
topic of empty nesting.
We're like partially there, butnot completely.
You've got one more, You've gotone more to go.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
So you're an in-between nester, as they may
say.
Yes, yeah, and I think it's sotimely of a conversation because
so many people just wentthrough college drop-off and
move-in.
They're all back home and yourbook is coming out here in the
middle of September.
What caught me about the book?
Obviously, there's 10 rulesthat you have, which they're all
phenomenal, but the one I thinkthat's most important for us to
(01:52):
dive into right now is rulenumber two, because you know,
resilience is one of thosethings that, yes, we know it
inherently, but when those oldheartstrings get tugged during
the emptiness transition, Ithink it just flies right off
our brains.
But the second one, that was,choose thoughts that strengthen
you, was one that I thought well, let's start there and see
(02:12):
where this conversation takes us.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, you know, a huge piece of resilience is
about adaptive skills.
I talk about this, this verysimple framework for for
building your own personalsystem of resilience, and
probably the most powerfuladaptive skill is how you think
in the face of a challenge, of achange.
What are you saying to yourself?
(02:35):
And I can give you an exampleof this.
We dropped off my youngestbonus daughters I have two bonus
daughters and a son are myyoungest bonus daughters.
I have two bonus daughters anda son.
My youngest bonus daughterstarted college in August, but
she's not far from home.
She's in downtown Atlanta.
But our oldest is a junior andmy husband flew with her to the
(02:56):
Netherlands because she is doinga study abroad.
This is the kid who, in middleschool, when I had a speaking
engagement at UGA in Athens,georgia, which is two hours from
where I live, said she didn'twant to go to UGA because it was
too far away.
Now she goes to college inRhode Island and she's studying
abroad, on another continent.
(03:18):
And the thoughts right Like itcan be hard enough to drop your
kid off at college, but to dropthem off on another continent
and go back home.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Ah, yes, yes, I have a couple of people who've
reached out in my circles.
They live, like in the UK andtheir kids are coming to the US
and they're having the exactsame thoughts like, oh my god,
they are a continent away.
And what does that mean for meas a parent?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, so one I think it's important, like for one of
my, like literally putting thisrule to use one of mine was
noticing the thoughts.
What am I saying?
Cause I was catastrophizing.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Of course, yeah, welcome to being a parent, right
.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Very, very short period of time, but sometimes
what we need is when we needperspective, right.
So perspective can be talkingto others who've been through
something similar, talking tothose who are familiar, like the
number of people who've been toAmsterdam recently, how safe
Amsterdam is.
But, more importantly, she's acautious young woman.
(04:22):
She handles herself well.
This is, you know, study abroadis something I thought about in
college.
I never did and I'm excited forher.
And you know, just even in our,in our, in our WhatsApp
conversations, you know whatshe's learning, what she's
noticing, even just after acouple of weeks.
So, choosing thoughts thatstrengthen us in our situation
(04:45):
is noticing.
Okay, what did we already teach?
What are the good things aboutthis?
And hey, it's only natural tohave fear when you stretch way
out of your comfort zone.
It doesn't mean run in theother direction, doesn't mean we
made the wrong decision.
It means I've got to managethose thoughts and I should
expect them.
Which, jay, is the first ruleof resilience Expect.
(05:08):
The unexpected.
Part of it is expecting thatthings might be hard or feel
difficult, and that's normal,which kind of lowers the
temperature on whatever you'refeeling in terms of stress,
because you realize like whatkind of parent would I be if I
didn't have any concerns?
Of course you have concerns.
(05:29):
This is just part of theprocess.
Now let's just keep movingforward.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, I think it's such an important one too.
It's like I can imagine parentssaying, oh hey, I wish I would
have known this rule before andkind of would have been able to
implement it.
But how do I even pass it alongto my kids?
Because they're going throughit, they're trying to be
resilient, they're trying,they're in a new spot, learning
everything, new, new dailyroutine, new people, new places
to go, and I think it's like howdo we help our kids with it as
(05:56):
well?
So have you done that with yourchild who's gone off to the
Netherlands?
Have you imparted some wisdomfrom rule two?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Well, the exciting thing to me is I was concerned
that she would be anxious, right, and so it's been more of my
questions how are you feelingabout this?
How are you?
You're?
You know, I know you're in aplace with a lot of other
students who are from overseas,but you're in your spot by
yourself.
Are you okay with that?
There's not a roommate.
She's like oh, actually, I likethe time to myself and she's
(06:29):
talking about who she's meeting,all the different countries
that they're from in this Dutchuniversity that she's going to.
She's fine, and that actually,for me, was very helpful, I
think in part because she madethe decision.
This is something she wanted todo and we wanted to support her
in it.
Now there are sometimeschallenges where you know maybe
(06:50):
they are struggling.
So, with my son, for example,he was starting some new stuff
yesterday and we actually had aconversation about his thoughts.
He had his first day ofcross-country practice in middle
school, and so you know we weretalking about like, what were
the thoughts that weren'tworking?
How did you change them?
And he said today, probably thehardest thought, mom was, I
(07:15):
wanted to do cross country and Ihad to run three miles.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
That's a tough, tough thought yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And he said and so I was thinking I can't do this he
said but I did notice it and Ijust told myself this is hard,
but I can get through this.
And I thought, wow, and thatreally was from conversations
we've had over time, I alsoshare where I struggle.
So I think that's helpfulbecause I think sometimes and
(07:45):
you know, if you grew up in ahousehold where your parents
didn't share their thoughts,their negative emotions or talk
it through, you could feel likethe adults always have it
together.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Even as I was writing this book, I would tell Alex
like mommy's beenprocrastinating, like it's all
in my thinking it has to bewritten perfectly, which I know
is not true.
So I'm giving myself permissiontoday, alex, to write badly.
Editing's a separate, that's aseparate gig.
I get to just get it on thepage.
(08:18):
It doesn't have to look justright, because that's not the
part we're going to publish, butI got to have somewhere to
start.
I think one of the things thatcan be helpful for us as parents
is acknowledging how hard it isfor us as I try to help my son
in particular, navigateelectronics like they're
addictive.
So I'll say, yeah, call me out,alex, if you see me on the
(08:42):
phone too much.
He does not hesitate to do so.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
But I'll just say it's hard.
Like this is designed to keepyou holding it, so it's not just
you.
I'm not fussing at you aboutelectronics.
This is hard for everybody.
So we've got to notice it,We've got to give our brain
breaks.
I have found that that worksvery well for young kids, but
(09:07):
also for the older ones, becauseyou're having real talk about
real struggles and you're notpretending that you have it all
together and they need to justfigure it out.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, I think what you were talking about parents
and kind of showcasing how to beresilient or share about their
feelings or their struggles andI know, like our generation of
parents, our parents that wasprobably not the norm whatsoever
.
It was probably the minority offolks who actually demonstrated
(09:34):
that for their kids.
So for people who are listening, I imagine they're saying, well
, my parents didn't do that.
How do I even get started inbeing resilient for my kids or
showcasing what that looks like?
What would you say to them?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Well, authenticity is a hallmark of resilience.
So I'd start with honesty.
You know I'm realizing maybe Ihaven't always shared with you
some of my struggles and thingsthat are hard for me, and I'm
really working on being moreresilient, in part because I
want to help you do that.
Let's talk about what thatmeans, right, and even
(10:11):
acknowledging like your kidshave been resilient, so helping
them identify like what's thebiggest challenge you've
overcome.
How'd you do that?
How might you apply what youlearned there to this current
challenge?
Like really affirming them forwhat they're doing well, to
build up their confidence thatthey already are resilient All
of us are, sometimes we forgethow we've been resilient and to
(10:35):
pull those lessons into thecurrent challenge.
So I think, being veryauthentic and saying I'm on this
journey and it occurs to methat there's this part of
parenting that maybe I haven'treally done very much and I'd
like to start.
So they're in on that changeand they're not going.
What's going on with dad?
He's journaling.
(10:56):
Now he's coaching.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Exactly, Exactly, I think well, I love it for my
kids because I talk about thisin my world is like you have to
be an example of what's possiblefor the kids, and I think
learning how to this I thinkplays right into rule number
four is showcasing like how youcan actually can control the
(11:19):
controllable and just accept therest.
I think that's a huge part ofgrowth and in this emptiness
life, I think parents lose sightof that.
What's been your experience inwriting the book and sharing
that rule with folks?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So control the controllable and accept the rest
is one of my favorite rules.
It taps into the researcharound locus of control having
an internal versus an externallocus of control.
The most successful resilientpeople have an internal locus of
control.
Having an internal versus anexternal locus of control.
The most successful resilientpeople have an internal locus of
control, which means they focuson what they have control over.
Things like I have control overmy attitude.
(11:55):
I have control over whatactions I choose to take.
Next, you may have control overapologizing or forgiving
somebody, depending on what thesituation is.
You don't have controloverizing or forgiving somebody,
you know, depending on what thesituation is.
You don't have control over,for example, the decisions your
company is going to make or youknow what's going on in
government, et cetera.
Like you can influence as muchas possible and you can make
(12:19):
choices that help influence, butin terms of the things you
actually control, you controlwhat comes out of your mouth
help influence, but in terms ofthe things you actually control,
you control what comes out ofyour mouth.
You control whether you decideto get a little more sleep or
engage in some healthier habitsor learn something new.
So really, looking at what do Icontrol?
It lowers your stress level.
It definitely makes you moreresilient, because you're not
(12:41):
wasting energy over focusing andworrying about things that you
absolutely have no control over,like other people.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Oh, exactly Right, they have no control of what
they say or what they think.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, if I could just get him to do X or to change
that or to stop doing.
And if there's somebody in yourlife that you are thinking of
as I say that and you've beendoing that for a year, two years
, 10 years, it's like except therest, that does not mean that
you approve of it.
It doesn't even mean thatyou're okay with it or you're
(13:17):
embracing it.
It means that you're looking atit and you go.
I don't have control over that.
It is what it is and you go.
I don't have control over that.
It is what it is.
Now, in light of what it is,how do I want to show up?
What choices do I want to make?
What adjustments would help meadapt better or still get to my
goal in spite of?
(13:38):
That's what it means to controlthe controllable.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I love that, and I was just talking to a client
about this just yesterday.
We were going through access tome, right my brain, my time, my
energy and they were strugglingwith that concept.
So I think that's I thinkthat's a really good way to kind
of share that with folks today.
That's how you can control.
The controllable is like whatdo I have control of Yep I have,
(14:02):
that I have control of howpeople have access to me is like
what do I have control of?
Yep I have?
I have control of how peoplehave access to me, have access
to my time and my energy, andit's such a.
It's a great example of that.
For for I've run into people whomaybe you said your daughter.
It was her choice to go to theNetherlands to go to school, but
some parents push their kidstowards a certain school and
sometimes it doesn't always workout right.
(14:24):
The kids are miserable and thenthe parents feel guilty that
they pushed in that direction.
And so when you talk aboutchoosing thoughts that
strengthen you, some of thosethoughts are really detrimental,
I think, to the relationship.
What would you say to somebodywho's in that spot?
Because I have people wholisten who are in that spot.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
So give me an example of like one of the thoughts
that might be coming to a parent.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Oh, absolutely I screwed up.
My kid's life is probably thenumber one.
Thought they're miserable and Idid this to them.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
So, um, first you got to define screwed up their life
.
Let's put it all intoperspective.
Sometimes we have to do thatfrom a place of gratitude.
I'm grateful that my kid wentoff to college.
I'm grateful that they'rehealthy.
I'm grateful that I'm havingand I'm noticing that maybe this
(15:19):
was not the right choice.
Can I have an honest?
conversation about that, right,so I think when we make mistakes
, like we're human, we do thatand in fact, pushing a child in
a particular direction often iscoming from a place of trying to
help, even if it's misguided.
(15:40):
We want the best for our kidsand as parents, I really believe
the vast majority we do thebest that we can and we can look
back and go.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I wish I hadn't done that because, hindsight, of
course, we see very clearly.
Oh yeah, absolutely, mondaymorning quarterback right being
able to see exactly what thepath may have been.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
The question becomes so what now?
Right, I cannot control what Idid in the past, where we are
now, but I can control where wego from here.
I can control next steps frommy perspective, and this
sometimes means big changes.
It means open, honestconversations, right, and so I
(16:25):
think that's really important.
You know, I spent my first yearof college as a cadet at the
Air Force Academy.
I had pretty much decided thatthat wasn't the direction I
wanted to go.
It was all I knew.
I was born in an Air Force basemy dad's retired Air Force and
it was an honor.
And we moved to Colorado when Iwas in the fifth grade, wrote
my term paper on the Academy asa ninth grader and said that's
(16:47):
where I'm going.
But you know, somewhere alongthe way after I'd applied, I
thought maybe that wasn't it.
But once I got in, you know, myparents thought otherwise.
Plus, it was a complete fullride.
It was such an honor, it waslike, and my dad was enlisted.
So this idea that, like mydaughter's going to go, she's
(17:14):
going to be an officer, and itdidn't go well, and I was there
for a year and decided to leave.
I'm not even sure.
I was probably well intoadulthood, before you know, had
the conversation with my mom.
Like you, told me I was notgoing to these other schools.
I got a scholarship, so she'slike I did.
There were a lot of dynamics tothat.
At some point, if we're, ifwe're super honest and open,
(17:34):
forgiveness is needed on bothsides, right.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
So important yes.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
And then like, is there a lesson in this for all
of us?
Is there a message?
Like I can't say I regret it.
I learned a lot about myselfand then I chose a new path and
even in that new path, you know,I was doing some things that
were like overcompensating fornot having good grades there and
oh, I'll get through collegefast and I'll finish early and
(18:00):
I'll go to grad school and I'llfinish at 21.
And then, like, oh my gosh, Ijust started enjoying the
journey.
Like, even in all of that,there are many things that
happened because of that firstyear, and yet life turned out
fine.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, More than fine, I would say.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yes, more than fine, and I don't think that was my
path.
I think that is an excellentpath and I think you know we're
very blessed to have people thatserve, like my dad did for 24
years, but that wasn't mycalling.
We just have to accept thatlife doesn't always go as
(18:40):
planned, that, of course, if wecould go back and make different
decisions, you might make adifferent decision about that ex
that you you know that you werewith for way too long.
Or you know some career choicethat you made because you felt
pressured into it and throughall of that.
If you grow through it and youdon't just go through it, you
come out with wisdom, you comeout stronger.
(19:02):
If you look to like that's huge.
I mean there's this researcharound post-traumatic growth,
which I think is fascinating.
A lot of it comes out of theUniversity of North Carolina.
And when people understandgoing into difficulties, if they
understand that PTSD isn't theonly option because we all think
(19:23):
of that, like that can be veryreal.
But if you realize I'm about togo through something really
hard and I could grow as aresult of it, that people are
actually more likely to grow,they actually lower their stress
and anxiety because they gointo it saying I know this will
be hard, but I could actuallyglean something good out of it.
(19:46):
That doesn't mean that youwould choose to go through that
awful health challenge or losethe job or whatever the case,
but on the other side of it it'spossible that you're expanded
in some way and you're better insome way, and that in itself is
a big part of what resiliencereally really is.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
So, yeah, this happened for me instead of
happened to me, I think is theway people often talk about that
.
It's interesting when you'retalking about that scenario,
when you think about kind ofrule number five, I think this
maybe plays into.
It is like when people aregoing through it in the moment,
it's like Ooh, how do I, how doI rally my resources when I'm in
(20:29):
the thick of it?
What might that look like forthem?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah.
So that rule is rally yourresources, which is
relationships, it's pastexperience, it's training, it's
access to resources, anythingthat helps you get through the
challenge, money you saved.
And so it's, I think, reallyimportant in the midst of your
challenge to ask that questionwhat past experience can I lean
(20:58):
on?
What resources do I have?
Who do I know?
Who's been there and done that?
Who do I know of?
You might not even know theperson, but there may be an
example of someone whosuccessfully moved through a
challenge and you take lessonsand you apply those.
And the access to resources Ithink is really big too, because
(21:21):
sometimes it's not that youhave the resources, but there
may be somebody that you knowand they're like, oh, you need
to go talk to this person.
Or hey, I have this, you canuse this to get through this
particular challenge.
And I think in the empty nestlife, I think one of the most
important things is having yourpeers that are going through the
(21:42):
same thing and talk.
You know who can you talk to,like there are going to be
others who have similar feelingsor they might have a different,
better perspective.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Right, that you need that because oftentimes, if
things aren't going well in theemptiness transition, people
don't talk about it because theyare afraid that everybody else
seems like they're just having aball and I'm not.
I'm struggling with this and soit's like I'm not going to talk
(22:14):
about it.
Why would I put myself outthere and talk about that
instance?
But I think your point is valid.
It's like no, there's resourcesout there, including your
friends and family.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, yeah, and so that means being willing to ask
for help, being willing to havethose conversations, is a big
part of it, and so you got towork those resilience muscles,
you know, and sometimes that'sdoing things that are
uncomfortable, things that youwouldn't typically do Resilient
people do not go it aloneuncomfortable things that you
wouldn't typically do Resilientpeople do not go it alone.
(22:42):
It's a great point.
There are these extra bonuspoints for I didn't have to call
anybody.
I didn't have to.
You know, don't do that.
Rally your resources, find thatcommunity and sometimes it
means you know, set thoseboundaries.
There may be somebody thatyou're giving a lot of room to
speak into your life.
(23:03):
It's way too much negativity orpessimism and it's not helping
you move in the right direction.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, that's a great point, and I think to.
Another step in this is when wewere talking about people not
sharing what they're strugglingwith.
Another that's what I loveabout your book it just so ties
into everything is that don'tpretend and don't defend.
All right, If you are having atime, bad time, don't, don't
pretend that you're not.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yes, yes, yes.
So that was one of the firstrules that I that I developed
Don't pretend, don't defend.
Don't pretend things are okaywhen they're not, and don't
defend things that you don'tneed to defend because it was a
mistake, it was something youdid wrong.
It's kind of like you saying,if you pushed your kid in one
direction and you realize nowit's not good, don't keep
(23:52):
defending that.
You can say I was doing what Ithought was going to be the best
option.
I was trying to help and I'mrealizing now that perhaps it
wasn't.
It wasn't the most helpfuloption and I'm sorry.
So let's talk about where weare right.
(24:14):
Let's talk about the overallvision.
I mean, ultimately, as parents,what are we trying to do?
We're trying to help the kidslaunch.
We're trying to help preparethem so that they can succeed in
the world.
Right, be resilient.
So when you defend things thatyou're wrong, so just say you're
wrong.
(24:43):
Of resilience, this particularrule don't pretend and don't
defend is essential.
And so where in your life areyou pretending things are okay
that aren't, and where might yoube defensive?
And you know when you'redefensive, because it's like
somebody pushes a button and youknow you talk a lot.
You talk about why it's reallyokay and you're.
You know you get upset veryeasily and take a breath.
Be honest, find the grain oftruth.
(25:08):
Sometimes people can criticizeus harshly and all of what
they're saying might not be true, but there might be a small
piece that you could acknowledgeand there's an opportunity
there for growth, forreconciliation, for being more
resilient.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
What a powerful two sentences too, I thought, and
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I thought and I was wrong.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
And it's okay, and to be able to exemplify that for
our kids, to be able to showthem it's okay to say I thought
this and you know.
You know what I was wrong, thiswasn't the right approach.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
It's very healing in our relationships.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
So good.
You know it's very healing whenyou tell somebody you hurt me or
this was not right, and theperson takes a breath and says,
yeah, I see why you feel thatway yeah, yeah, I see why you
feel that way and one of thethings, uh, in my leadership
training when I was working inschool is we worked with the
center for creative leadershipin greensboro, north carolina,
(26:08):
and they taught us sbi, which issituation, behavior and impact.
Just to approach somebody, say,remember this, here's the
behavior that took place andhere's the impact it had on me.
You can also work that inreverse to say here's the
situation, here's my behaviorand the impact I feel impact it
had on me.
You can also work that inreverse and say here's the
situation.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Here's my behavior and the impact I feel like it
had on you.
Yeah, so good, it's powerful.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Two things you talk about which I think people, if
they pick up the book and lookat the chapters, would be like
what the heck are those things?
Which is the growth gap and theenergy gap.
What are those.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Oh, my goodness.
So this is.
This is like two of thesethings that I kind of stumbled
upon and really developed, uh,over time and realized how much
they resonate.
So growth gaps we all have them.
We tend to set goals as um,performance goals as very
measurable, like I can seewhether you got it or not.
(27:00):
You wanted to save a certainamount of money, you wanted to
have this certain relationship,you wanted to get this certain
job, you wanted to launch thisbusiness.
Um, that, they're very easy.
You want to lose this amount ofweight, right, but growth goals
are.
Answer the question how willyou need to grow in order to get
to that?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
goal.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
And we have to have a growth goal that goes along
with the performance goal.
And we have to have a growthgoal that goes along with the
performance goal.
Otherwise, like we'd already bethere, if we use weight as an
example, if I ask you, how doyou lose 15 pounds?
Pretty much the answer is goingto be some combination of move
more, eat better.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
We all know that.
That doesn't mean that we do itright.
So how will you need to grow?
Maybe it's in consistency,maybe it's knowledge, maybe you
don't know what you're doing.
That's kind of messing somethings up or making it harder to
get more fit.
So if you understand how you'llneed to grow, that becomes the
(28:00):
engine for you to get to thevision.
So a growth gap is the gapbetween where you are and where
you will need to be in order toactually get to the goal.
It's very enlightening becausewe can get very frustrated,
focused on the steps.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Exactly, and that's where getting uncomfortable,
being comfortable withuncomfortable thing comes into
play.
Right?
That's the difference betweenwhere you want to be and where
you are now.
Yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
just even one growth gap can move the needle can
really help you get unstuckEnergy gaps, which that's the
(28:46):
10th of the 10 rules is, I think, like for me, this was super
eye-opening.
We tend to not notice how bigour challenges are and how much
energy it actually takes to getthere, and so when we get burned
out or we just can't seem tofind the motivation, it's often
(29:09):
an energy gap.
When your goal or the visionyou have for your life is a 10,
or maybe the challenge you'recurrently dealing with is a 10.
And then I say, well, withright, Is it 10?
And then I say, well, on ascale of one to 10, how much
energy do you have right now?
And you're like it's a five.
So you got a 10 challenge andfive energy.
(29:32):
At some point you're going torun out.
You are not going to get thereand you're wondering why things
that perhaps used to get youexcited you dread them, why you
can't seem to force yourself todo what's needed.
You may need to literallyreplenish your energy.
You are not only operating onreserves.
(29:52):
You've drained the reserves.
You may need more sleep, youmay need a better diet, you may
need to get more exercise.
You may simply need morepositive energy in your life.
We know positive emotion makesyou more resilient and when
you're dealing with negativeafter negative after negative,
like it drains you.
Positive emotion helps you makebetter decisions, set better
(30:15):
goals, you persevere longer, youeven live longer when you have
more positive emotions.
So we've got to manage theenergy and be really sensitive.
Know your kid has left or yourkids are now all out of the
(30:43):
house and that may haveenergized you and you haven't
noticed how that's shifting, howyou feel every single day.
So maybe some self compassion,maybe just kind of getting in
touch more with what energizesyou, finding those old goals and
dreams Right.
So being sensitive that changesin life change your energy,
(31:07):
require different amounts ofenergy and you want to be able
to manage, manage those energygaps.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
I love that.
Yeah, it's just like your whatdo we call it?
Like your social energy tank,right when, when you're dealing
with other people.
And what does that look like,Whether you're an intern or
extrovert in?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, you're like, oh my gosh, all these people, all
these questions, all this smalltalk.
You know that you have toreplenish.
You may need some time, somemore time alone.
I used to say during thepandemic that collectively, as a
society, we often were notnoticing one how the kind of
(31:48):
what was going on globally wasimpacting our energy Absolutely.
How the change and how we wereshowing up or the lack of social
contact we were having comparedto the past.
All of those things you mayneed just to schedule in a nap
once a week you may need to paycloser attention to.
Hey, maybe I need to go to bed30 minutes earlier, or maybe
(32:11):
there's some commitments that Ineed to let go of for a season
so that I have the energy todirect in a new way.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
So good Now in your book, like my favorite rule of
all of them.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
You have not said the favorite one yet.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
My favorite one is find the opportunity in the
challenge, because it'ssomething I talk about all the
time.
The one true constant in lifeis change, and you know, if you
look at the word challenge,change skirts the outside of it.
You know the letters, yeah.
So I always say you know what,in every challenge we have in
(32:48):
life, we have to change in someway, and with every change
there's always challengesembedded in it.
So that's why I love that rule,but tell me more about it,
because I think that's the onepeople will have the hardest
time grasping.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah.
So I think this rule gives alot of hope Find the opportunity
and the challenge.
If you think about your biggestchallenge right now, if you
think about the challenge ofempty nesting, the change of it,
just ask yourself coachyourself with this question
what's the opportunity in thischallenge?
This doesn't have to mean youlike everything about the
(33:20):
challenge.
You might not like anythingabout it, but I guarantee you
there's an opportunity in it.
Maybe there are some things thelast 18, 20, 22 years that
you've put aside and in this newseason you could pick that back
up.
Maybe there's the opportunityfor more rest.
Maybe there's opportunity toconnect with your partner more
(33:43):
deeply.
Or maybe you're the singleparent who you know you haven't
had a partner in a long time andyou didn't want to introduce
that, you know, into the, intothe mix while you're still
raising your kids, like I don'tknow.
Maybe it's opportunity topursue a different career or
just whatever.
I love asking this questionbecause it takes your focus off
(34:09):
of the obstacle that's in frontof you to say, huh, what is the
opportunity that I get?
Because this thing exists and Ithink that's a gift.
It's you looking for the giftin it and unwrapping that gift
and savoring it.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Yeah, what's the opportunity I get to have from
this experience?
I love that.
I love it.
It's so good.
Yeah, the other one too.
And then my final favorite,which I think is the bonus one.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I'm liking that.
It sounds like you got a wholebunch of favorites.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Oh, I do yeah, as an author.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I'm like yes.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
So good.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
That?
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, that was my ultimate favorite was number
eight.
Yeah, find the opportunitychallenge, but the bonus one,
the pay it forward.
I'm a big pay it forward guyand that one I love as well.
So how can people like theyread the book and they're like,
oh yeah, this all works for mehow can they pay it forward?
Think this is the highest levelof resilience?
Where we are resilient, we learnour lessons, we glean the
opportunity and the challengeand then we're able to share
that with whether it's with yourkids, with coworkers, with
(35:26):
friends who may be in the midstof challenges to actually create
a more resilient world aroundyou and for all of us.
And we think about the worldwe're in right now, like there's
more distraction, there's moreuncertainty than ever for most
of us in a generation, I mean,I'm going to say you know,
generations before had a wholelot of other things I'm glad we
(35:48):
don't have to deal with.
But right now, like the sheervolume of change in the last 20,
30 years, even the last fiveyears I mean we've been it feels
like one thing after another ofunexpected challenges and
change.
We need resilience like neverbefore.
(36:10):
Our kids need resilience morethan ever before.
I feel strongly it should betaught in every school, in every
workplace, in every family.
It's why, for me, paying itforward was how do we take the
research of resilience, thecommon sense of resilience,
create a framework and theseeasy to remember rules so that,
(36:31):
even if all you're payingforward is it's the opportunity
and the challenge, or you shouldexpect the unexpected, like you
shouldn't expect that.
You're going to A to Z and it'sa straight line.
So if you expect the unexpected, you're not so shocked.
When things don't go as planned, you change gears and you go
okay.
What rule do I need to apply?
And I think the other thingthat happens is for me and I
(36:54):
talk about this in the book is Ilook back to who paid it
forward for me, because Iguarantee you there is somebody.
If you're resilient, there issomebody from your past that
either inspired you, gave yousome access to resources that
helped you move ahead or getunstuck, and in that is
(37:19):
gratitude and perspective.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
So good.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
It's powerful.
I look a lot back to my owngrandparents and like what their
life was like compared to me.
Even as a kid, it gave me thissense of strength, Like look
what you're coming from, Lookhow far your grandparents came
and doors they opened so thatyou had opportunities that they
(37:46):
could only have dreamed of.
Like you got to run with that,you got to take that baton and
keep going.
So, even when things haven'tgone as planned, it puts it in
perspective.
It does.
It does Problems I'm dealingwith.
Like they didn't even have theopportunity to have these
problems.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
That's a great way to frame it.
I love that so much.
I'm curious, before I let yougo, what's one thing you've
learned about yourself inwriting this book?
Speaker 1 (38:24):
I think I had a struggle in the process that I
had to use my own rules that Iwas writing about to overcome,
and I was resilient in doing so.
My struggle was and it was ashock, because I've been
teaching on resilience since Ifinished grad school in positive
psychology in 08.
(38:44):
And the struggle was well, ifyou think you're going to write
like the go-to book onresilience, then that has to
mean that you're the mostresilient and you've been
through the worst things andyou've been through some stuff.
But like there's other peoplethat blah, blah, blah, and so I
realized I'm just human, likeeverybody else.
(39:04):
I'm not professing to beperfect at it, professing to be
perfect at it.
What I am professing is that mypassion is understanding how
successful people thinkdifferently, do things
differently, researching all ofthat and then packaging it in a
way that's like, hey, this isreal practical and I really
(39:27):
believe it will help you,because success requires
resilience.
It's not just for the negativethings we go through in life.
If you want happy relationships, if you want financial
independence, if you want betterhealth, if you want to change
careers, any of those successthings require resilience.
So I think what I had to learnis the stuff I'm writing about.
(39:50):
I deal with it every single dayand I've put all these rules to
the test and I believe in them,not just because they're rooted
in research, but because I usethem.
And yeah, I don't use themperfectly, but when I get back
on track with them, they work.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Yeah, that's it.
I love that point and folkslike the success piece in your
emptiness life is learning howto be more resilient, not just
for you, but for your family andyour kids and everyone else.
So, valerie, thank you so muchfor being here today and
allowing me to pay it forwardfor all you've taught me in both
my personal and my coachinglife.
It's been a true honor andprivilege to have this
(40:30):
conversation with you.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Jay, I've so enjoyed the conversation.
I feel very blessed to havebeen a part of your journey,
your coaching journey and to getto have this conversation with
you today has just been awesome,so thank you.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
My pleasure, folks.
Rules of Resilience.
Out September 16th it's goingto be available in all places
you can buy your book, so runout and grab it.
It is a must-have in yourlibrary.
Thanks again, valerie,appreciate you being here.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Thanks, Jay.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Are you ready to start living and enjoying your
empty nest years?
If so, head over tojasonramsdencom and click work
with me to get the conversationstarted.
This Empty Nest Life is aproduction of Impact.
One Media LLC.
All rights reserved.
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.