October 28, 2025 • 36 mins
Downsizing and decluttering can be overwhelming—it's not just lifting boxes, but making tough decisions while battling guilt, perfectionism, and “what if I need this?” In this episode, professional organizer Tracy Hoth of Simply Squared Away shares a clear, compassionate path to lighten your home—and your mind.
Tracy introduces her proven SPACE method — Sort, Purge, Assign, Contain, Energize — which applies from small junk drawers to whole-house moves. Tracy redefines being “organized” as knowing what you have and being able to find it easily. Using favorites-first purging and the “triangle of fit” (your body, space, and life) simplifies decision-making, while practical tips about zones, containers, and sorting strategies make the process manageable.
Whether you’re downsizing, caring for aging parents, or just clearing space for the next chapter, this episode provides a grounded, achievable approach to letting go and making room for what matters most—without overwhelm.
Highlights & Key Takeaways:
- Redefine organization as knowing what you have and where it is.
- Set a clear vision and timeline for downsizing or decluttering.
- Use the SPACE method: Sort, Purge, Assign, Contain, and Energize.
- Save money by “shopping your house” for containers and setting limits.
- Handle big spaces with full-sort or box-by-box approaches.
- Overcome guilt about heirlooms and gifts with healthier beliefs.
- Plan a life-and-death binder to support your family.
Feeling overwhelmed by clutter? Ready to create a home that supports your next chapter? Tune in and learn how the simple SPACE method and mindset shifts turn chaos into confidence.
Tracy Hoth Bio
Tracy Hoth is a 17-year veteran professional organizer and certified life coach who is on a mission to empower women to create streamlined and organized lives. She is the host of the top 1% globally ranked Organized Coach Podcast and creator of Organized Life Academy, where she helps empty nesters simplify, declutter, and become organized life CEOs.
Find Tracy Online: LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook,
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
One of the women in our group, her dad just died.
And I remember messaging her andjust saying, What can I do for
you?
And she said, Tracy, just pleasemake sure you keep telling
people.
Don't leave your kids a mess.
Don't leave them all this stuffto go through.
Start now, start when you canand take action.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
Welcome to this empty nest life.
Join Jay Ramsden as he leads youon a transformative journey
through the uncharted seas ofmidlife and empty nesting.
If you're ready to embark onthis new adventure and redefine
your future, you're in the rightplace.
Here's your host, the empty nestcoach, Jay Ramsden.
SPEAKER_03 (00:40):
Hey there, my emptiness friends.
I don't know about you, but oneof the things constantly on my
mind as an empty nester is howdo we get prepared to downsize?
What are the best practices?
How does it work?
And what the heck do we even dowith all the things we have?
Because, you know, deep down, weknow the kids really don't want
any of it at all.
Today I'm joined by expertorganizer Tracy Hoth of
(01:02):
SimplysquaredAway.com, and we'regonna get into it right now.
Tracy, welcome to This EmptinessLife.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Thanks, Jay, for having me.
I love talking about organizing.
SPEAKER_03 (01:13):
It's interesting because I am I am super
obsessive compulsive about beingorganized.
But when I see things, but theattic, the garage, the closets,
the drawer, basement, whatever,out of sight, out of mind, then
my OCD doesn't kick in.
So I'm just like, let's let'shave a conversation.
Because I know lots of peoplewho are empty nesters are in
(01:34):
this exact spot.
Oh my god, we need to downsize,but where do we even begin?
So let's let's tap into thatorganizational brain of yours
and decluttering brain of yours.
Where do we even start?
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
Where do we start?
I always start first just bywhat organized means.
So you're organized when youknow what you have and you can
find it when you need it.
SPEAKER_03 (01:53):
No just oh yeah, okay.
Game changer right there, right?
Where can I find it?
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
Yeah, that's what I think.
A lot of times we think it meansthat it has to look a certain
way and it has to be extraspecial and color-coded, and it
really doesn't.
And so once you have yourshoulders can relax and you can
just think, okay, do I knowwhere it is and can I find it
when I need it?
SPEAKER_03 (02:18):
That's I'm like my mind is racing right now,
literally around my house.
Do I know where it is?
And because people move, right?
They have circumstances thatcome up.
I know for us, we lost a housein a fire, had a rental, bought
a new house, and my mind isconstantly like, Well, I think I
had it at some point.
Yeah.
And that but so, but I mean Iimagine regular folks who don't
have those things happen movetoo.
(02:40):
And how do you even be like, Idon't even know where to begin.
I'm so glad we're talking, andI'm sure others are, but like,
where do you even start?
SPEAKER_01 (02:47):
Yes.
So I think first to think aboutthis is a project that you're
gonna do.
And anytime you do a project,you have a start time and
probably an end time that youwant to get it done by.
And you can break down if you'regonna downsize your whole house,
you can break it down intosections, and maybe that's a
(03:07):
little more realistic or lessoverwhelming of a start and end
time.
And then I always think youstart by following the steps to
getting organized.
And I have an acronym for thesteps, it spells space, and we
can talk through that in just aminute.
But when you first start inthinking about downsizing, take
(03:31):
a minute just to look at yourfuture self.
Like let's say in a year fromnow, in six months, whatever
amount of time, and just imaginethem with the project completed
and just take down some notes.
What does that look like?
Where do they are you in thesame house?
Have you moved?
What size house do you live in?
How much stuff do you imagineyourself you're gonna move or
(03:55):
you're gonna keep?
Just to get this really clearvision of what we're even going
toward.
Because when we say downsize,that could mean anything.
And then you don't even knowwhat your like what destination
is in the GPS.
SPEAKER_03 (04:07):
Got it.
All right, so start at the end,like with the end in mind.
SPEAKER_01 (04:10):
Yes.
Look at it, imagine it.
SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
Imagine it.
Let's say I was actually hadtalking to somebody before who
is an entrepreneur who's RVing.
And so we had some similarconversation about stuff and the
overwhelm of stuff.
So if we start with the end inmind, that person, the end in
mind was an RV, and that's whatthey do, they travel the country
in an RV.
But what does it look like?
(04:33):
And it's so open-ended forpeople.
So what if they can't evenanswer that?
Is there is there like a halfwaypoint for them where you advise
them here's an here's here'ssomeplace you can start with
that?
It's like even like for me, evena drawer that we can tackle.
Like where that's where my braingoes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Yes.
So there's no magic answer.
So it would depend.
Like if you can imagine thefuture and you know you want to
move in six months.
Like, I have a couple that'sgonna move in six months.
And so they know the size ofhouse they want.
And now, as they're goingthrough each room in their
house, they know what they needto do.
And one of the things we talkedabout was in each room, put a
(05:14):
box of donate, a box that you'regonna keep, and pack each room
up individually with the thingsthat you're gonna keep.
And then you know these thingsare gonna go into the guest
room.
You can be as perfectionist asthat as you're going through
things.
So you're kind of packing up thethings you want and then leaving
some maybe things out if you'renot sure, putting some donate
(05:36):
stuff in that you're sure ofdonating.
So that's one way to go aboutit.
But let's back up a minute, evenjust in learning how to
organize.
If you know the steps to gettingorganized, you can organize
absolutely anything in yourlife, your mind, your house, a
drawer, your digital files, yourattic.
Like you can organize anything,your calendar by following the
(06:00):
steps.
And in order to get good at thesteps, break it down into small
areas, like you just said, adrawer.
Grab your purse, do the frontseat of your car, do a counter,
a section of a countertop.
Just pick an area and thenfollow the steps.
So I have a 15-minute declutterchallenge that you can download
(06:22):
and follow these exact steps.
It spells it out for youperfectly and walks you through
exactly what to do.
But the first step to organizinganything is to sort.
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
Okay, that's the S in space.
SPEAKER_01 (06:35):
That's the Sort.
SPEAKER_03 (06:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
Yep.
And the reason what most peopledo is they walk into a space and
they're like, okay, I gotta getrid of some stuff.
And they first look at somethingand they're like, Well, I don't
know.
And then they leave because it'stoo overwhelming.
They try to make decisions.
So first step is to sort.
SPEAKER_03 (06:55):
Okay.
First step sort.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
And you just put like items with like items.
If it's a drawer, you take thethings out of the drawer and put
pencils here, office supplieshere, paper here.
SPEAKER_03 (07:10):
Closet, it would be you know, suits and put you
know, PJs there and whateverelse that you have in your
closet.
SPEAKER_00 (07:17):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (07:20):
Next is P a P.
What's that?
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
Purge.
Purge.
And so I like in this step to dothere's a couple options.
I like to choose my favorites.
So you if you do the favoritesmethod, and I used to teach this
to kids, like if parents aregonna help kids do it, but then
I'm like, well, this works greatfor parents too.
So you pick your favorite thing.
(07:44):
If you're looking at uh yourpile of pens, you pick the
favorite pen that you use allthe time.
If you're looking at your jeans,you pick the ones that you wear
all the time that are yourfavorites that fit.
And so then you go to the otherthings, and then there's a list
of questions like, have I usedthis in the last six months, 12
months?
(08:04):
Does it fit?
Does it work?
All those types of questionsthat are helpful.
Does it fit into the future thatI'm envisioning?
Does it help me get to my goal?
If so, keep it.
If not, then you can let it go.
SPEAKER_03 (08:21):
I like the fit piece, Tracy.
Does it fit my body, but alsodoes it fit my life, like in a
regular way?
Because we all know people whohave closets.
I used to, you know, my Iactually got my closet to a
point where I think I would youwould be like, okay, Jay, you've
done a good job with thiscloset.
Okay.
Is I used to have a closet ofdouble X and XL and large, and I
(08:46):
was like keeping everything ofooh, I could might need this at
some point in the future if Iget off this habit of exercise
and eating.
Oh, just hold on to it, but I'vedone away with that.
And so I I think that's whatyou're saying.
Is like, does it fit into mylife and does it fit into the
space?
Does it fit me?
It's like almost a triangle offit.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
Yes, I love that.
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (09:06):
Feel free to use it and take it away.
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
I will.
SPEAKER_03 (09:10):
Okay, so then the A, we've we've sorted and purged.
SPEAKER_01 (09:13):
So now we know what we're keeping, and now we assign
a home to it.
Assign homes.
SPEAKER_03 (09:17):
Oh, assign.
I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
And this part's a little bit of a puzzle.
You're deciding where's it gonnago?
Can I access it quickly?
Does it fit into a zone?
Like if we have the bakingstuff, all could be together.
We have a reading zone that haseverything we need for reading
in our bookshelf and a basket ofpens or whatever you need.
(09:39):
But think about how is it fit inmy life?
And sometimes it's a little bitof a testing.
You're gonna test it and see ifyou like where it where it is,
and then you can always makechanges to it.
SPEAKER_03 (09:51):
Okay.
So for people who are thinkingabout you know, downside it, but
they kind of have an idea ofwhat they place, but they don't
have a timeline for that.
Like they could literally testand rerun the system again.
SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
Oh, for sure.
Yes, right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:06):
They could test it out and be like, oh, I'm gonna
sort and purge and design again.
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:10):
And then also the C and E, but we're not there yet.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
Yes.
Yeah, yes.
And you're gonna do this.
I think of it like an onion andit has many layers.
So the first time, especially ifyou have a lot of stuff, the
first time you can get rid of20% of it or whatever, is just
anything that's easy.
And the next time you go throughthat space or that room, you get
through a little more stuff, andthen the next time you're like,
Why did I even keep this?
(10:34):
And you're able to get rid ofthat.
So it could be this process, andthere's not necessarily a rush
unless you want to move in threemonths.
Then maybe you do want to do it.
SPEAKER_03 (10:43):
Yeah, there's no timeline.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we've done the sorting, thepurge, the assigning.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
Once you assign home, the next step is to
contain.
Now you know where it is, youknow what it needs to help
contain it, to help it keep keepit neat.
You might want to add somebaskets because it looks good,
but it also keeps it in space inthe spot.
And the purpose of that is sothat when it reaches its limit,
you know to go back through thesteps.
SPEAKER_03 (11:10):
Oh, so if I had a whatever a drawer, a drawer, a
box, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
Yeah.
And your drawer is full or yoursection of the drawer is
overflowing.
You're like, okay, I need to goback through here and go through
the steps.
SPEAKER_03 (11:25):
Yeah.
That does the contain piece alsoinclude, I've heard people say
as well, like it inflow into thehome, right?
Other items coming into thathouse.
Does that piece play into thecontainment too?
Like you try to contain nothaving more stuff coming in to
have to do something with.
SPEAKER_01 (11:44):
I haven't really thought of that, but I that did
make me think of when you thinkabout the container of your
house, you have that size, andyou can think this is the right
size for me.
This is what I have right now.
The container of the housebreaks down into the container
of each room, breaks down tomaybe the drawer of a dresser or
(12:05):
the size of your closet.
That is your container.
So you break that further downand use containers, drawer
divider, shelf dividers, piecesof furniture, bookshelves.
You can use all those things tocontain what you have.
And a lot of people want tostart here.
SPEAKER_03 (12:23):
They oh, for sure.
I can see it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
Buy Target to Target and buy all the cute bins.
They look at pictures andthey're like, oh, I need all
these containers.
I always say, do not buyanything until you get to this
step.
And then shop your house first,use what you have, and then you
can go buy something morebeautiful or aesthetically
pleasing if you want to, afteryou know that it works.
SPEAKER_03 (12:49):
Shop your house first.
I love that.
That's going to be the goldennugget, right?
Because there are so many thingsin our house where we can be
like, oh, I have extra bowls.
We can use that to put thecarrot coffee things in.
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
Yes, Tupperware that you can use as a drawer divider
in your bathroom.
You know, there's so manydifferent things you can use.
Plus, when you what I see when Ihave, because I've been
organizing in people's homes for17 years, I don't do it anymore,
but you are emptying all thesecontainers out when you're
sorting.
So then when you finish sorting,you have a lot of empty
(13:22):
containers or bins or basketsthat you are piling up.
And sometimes it's the hugestpile that for sure you can chop
there first.
SPEAKER_03 (13:32):
Got it.
What do you do with all theextra hangers?
Before we get to the E.
Yeah.
That just popped in my head,right?
When you're decluttering acloset, you end up with all the
extra hangers.
SPEAKER_01 (13:41):
I know.
Then what we do is we move theminto the laundry room on the rod
in the laundry room, and theneventually they just disappear
again.
I don't know what happens tothem.
But you can donate them.
SPEAKER_03 (13:52):
They leave the house with the socks that go missing.
The hangers, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
Yeah.
But you can donate them, you cangive them away.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:01):
I guess they would people that take clothes need
hangers too, right?
Yeah.
So goodwill or whomever.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (14:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:06):
What about the E?
SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
And then the E is energize.
So when you organize, peoplethink it's draining.
No, it energizes you.
When you look at that, go backto it and just revel in the
beauty that you've just createdin this organized space and then
ensure that it stays that way.
So you're going to maintain thespace so that you maintain your
(14:30):
energy.
And when I think about this, Ithink we have cleared space so
that we can put our energy inother things.
We don't want to be organizingfor the rest of our life.
We want to organize it and keepit that way so that we have that
free flow of energy and time tobe put into the things that we
(14:51):
love and relationships and thethings that we want to do in our
life.
SPEAKER_03 (14:54):
I love that.
Like you could change space tospacer or spaced and for either
repeat or do it again.
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
Oh, that's true.
SPEAKER_03 (15:04):
And then it's not a one and done, right?
You're going to do it multipletimes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
Yeah.
And in the in this last step tomaintain something, the secret
is to tie it to something thatyou already do.
SPEAKER_03 (15:16):
Oh, yeah.
Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
Yeah.
If you do taxes every year, youtie cleaning out your file
cabinet or your paper, whereverthat goes, you clean that out at
the same time.
If you have live in a placewhere seasons change, you can go
through your closet when theseason changes.
Or an easy one is you buygroceries and you bring
(15:39):
groceries into the house.
Before you bring the groceriesin, you clean out your fridge or
clean out your pantry.
Just do a quick tidy up check.
Make sure everything in there isrelevant.
And then it always stays thatway.
SPEAKER_03 (15:51):
I love that.
Yeah.
I've started doing that with mycloset.
If I do buy new clothes, then Iwhen I bring the new clothes in,
I have to take out some clothesthat I don't use regularly.
That's that's where I've gottento.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:06):
If everybody would just follow that rule, we would
all it would be so much easier.
SPEAKER_03 (16:11):
Yeah, well, what it came, what it came to for me,
Tracy, is I do our wash, right?
I'm the guy who does the washand the cooking and the cleaning
and everything.
And I was like, I wear the samestuff over and over and over.
We all do, right?
But we don't really internalizethat this is what we wear all of
the time.
Even had that conversation withmy wife.
I'm like, we get rid of some ofthese pajamas, and she's like,
(16:33):
No, I wear them all.
I'm like, No, you don't.
Here's the three or four thatyou wear because I wash them and
it's the same ones over and overand over again.
Because they go back in the topof the drawer and you just pull
them out and we recycle them.
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:46):
So okay.
I love the acronym because itgives people a way to be like,
okay, what's the next step?
So, but when we finish it, wetalked a little bit about it,
like the repeat or thedo-it-again.
But do how do we keep how do wekeep the momentum going?
SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
Yes.
Well, to keep the spacemaintained, you're gonna create
a habit to keep it that way.
But then you just move to thenext space.
And I always say start withsomething that either would have
the biggest impact on you orthat would make you the
happiest, like the easiest placeyou could start for a quick win,
(17:20):
and it would make you beappreciative that you have that
win.
So it doesn't necessarily matterwhere you start and then you
just keep going.
The key is to schedule it,right?
Because if we don't schedule it,I was just talking to my the
group of empty nesters andorganized life academy, and they
(17:41):
were saying, Well, I wouldprobably do better if I
scheduled it.
And I'm like, Yes, we have toschedule what we want to get
done, even if we don't put it ona specific time of the day, but
schedule it, look at the weekand put it on the day you're
gonna work on it or the days andmake that a priority for that
(18:01):
day to get the job done.
SPEAKER_03 (18:04):
Okay, so my mind goes, We have a basement in this
house.
It's um, you know, a conditionedspace that was built for
somebody at some point who ownedthe house.
And I know that's basically ouraddict.
So we've got everything when wemoved here, anything that wasn't
going in the top part of thehouse is still in boxes down
there, literally four yearslater.
(18:24):
And my brain goes through thissort, purge, assign is I look at
it as oh my god, I gotta do thewhole thing.
But do you recommend gridding itand being like, oh, I'm gonna do
this two foot by two foot squareand do the sort and the purge
and the assign and the canecontain for that, or that just
the sort and the purge part?
(18:45):
Like are there can you break thethe five steps into a couple
steps in a larger room likethat?
SPEAKER_01 (18:50):
Yes, there's two ways that you could do it that I
think I would help someone do.
One is that you're gonna sorteverything before you move to
purge.
unknown (19:00):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (19:01):
So you would empty everything out in the space and
sort it all around the spaceinto categories because then
when you go to the purge step,you have everything that you own
in that category there so youcan make decisions.
Making decisions is easier to beable to do that.
Now that comes first if you havethe space to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_03 (19:24):
Oh, yeah, there's no floor space.
Okay.
You dance around boxes to try tofind seasonal things in there.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
Yes.
So you could move everythingout, you could pull it out and
move it into another area.
But the other option then is youtake one box at a time and you
go through the steps.
SPEAKER_04 (19:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (19:44):
So you sort that box, you purge the things you
don't want to keep, you assignhomes to things.
So then you're you when you'reorganizing a lot of stuff, you
get to the point where, like,well, Tracy, that doesn't really
have a home.
You decide where the home isgonna be and you put it as close
to the home as you can get it.
Or in a temporary home.
(20:06):
So if it's some stuff in thatbox were Christmas things that
you want to keep, you're gonnadecide where Christmas is gonna
live until you finish the spacewhere Christmas is, or you stick
it in there as best you can getit to be by the home that will
be its home.
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_03 (20:25):
It makes perfect sense.
And now that I think about it,like it's my son's stuff, my
daughter stuff from the move.
You know, they have their ownapartments now, but they're
like, we we don't have room forit in ours.
We don't have rooms from there.
Yeah, exactly.
And then it's like kitchen stuffand seasonal stuff, and so it's
kind of sorted from the box.
Okay, so it's really moreopening the boxes and starting
(20:47):
to organize it to purge thattype of those types of things.
SPEAKER_01 (20:52):
Okay, yeah, and when you think about that, one box
could be the 15-minute declutterchallenge.
Like you could just take onebox, do the steps on it, and
then you'll have a free box.
And then you take the next boxand you follow the organizing
steps, and you get through onemore box.
And that could take just 15minutes, 30 minutes, an hour
(21:16):
once a week, and you could bemoving through that stuff
instead of looking at it like,oh, this whole space, there's so
much stuff, it's sooverwhelming.
So I think it's helpful, andthat's why I made the 15-minute
declutter challenge so that wedon't stay stuck, that we can
get started and that we canbreak it down into little
(21:36):
chunks.
SPEAKER_03 (21:37):
Yeah.
I mean, this is literally and Ithink it's helpful for the
listeners to hear an actualscenario, right?
Because their brain goes, Oh, Ihave one of those.
Yeah.
And so my brain goes, Well,these are all moving boxes.
So I can't put stuff back intothem because they're all old and
crappy and decrepit movingboxes.
So then my brain goes, I gottarun to Lowe's and get a bunch of
(21:58):
containers.
SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
What?
No, exactly.
That's where my brain isbringing containers.
No, wait until you know whatsize container you need.
That's why I say the middle oforganizing is kind of messy
because you're gonna put thestuff with that category.
And then once you go through thecategory purge, then you know
(22:19):
where it's gonna live.
And people that buy botcontainers, a lot of times the
containers don't even fit on theshelves that they have, so you
have to wait and see like, is itgonna fit on this shelf and the
container?
I need to measure then, and nowI know exactly what I need.
SPEAKER_03 (22:35):
Got it.
Well, what if it's an attic?
What if it's a it's just a bigspace where containers can live
free?
SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
Then maybe you can start a container.
Like, if you know that, here'san example.
We have an attic space, and ourkids are in their transition
years, they're kind of movingpast that.
My youngest is 21.
But as they've moved out of thehouse, they've had memorabilia
type stuff where we've cleanedtheir room out and they've had
(23:03):
stuff.
So we do buy the big tubs withthe yellow lids from Costco.
And we I bought some for eachkid, and then we've been putting
stuff as we find it into thatcategory.
So that is its home, and we knowexactly we have free space, we
don't have shelves, so we canstack those on top of each
other.
And when our kid moves out, thenwe can just give them the tub.
(23:24):
So in that instance, we knowwhere its home is gonna be,
eventually their house.
And we know that it doesn't haveto fit on a shelf.
So you're right.
In that instance, buying acontainer for that to put things
in as we gather them washelpful.
SPEAKER_03 (23:40):
Got it.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (23:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:42):
You just said something interesting, like
sorting kids' stuff into boxesthat they can take into their
house.
What's the timeline for keepingthat stuff?
SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
I know.
I talk to so many people andthey're like, well, we have our
kids' stuff and they just don'thave room at their apartment or
their, you know, whatever.
And so I don't think there's anyrule, whatever works for you.
I mean, if you're downsizing andyou run out of space, obviously
you take it to them.
Sometimes it's helpful for whenthe kid comes home, they go
(24:12):
through it and they decide,like, what do I even really want
to keep in here?
After they've been away for awhile, they come back and
they're like, Oh, well, do Ireally want this to live at my
house?
I don't think so.
So then they're able to get ridof it more than they were when
they got out of high school orcollege.
SPEAKER_03 (24:28):
Yeah, when they finished.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (24:29):
What's what's one of the biggest?
I mean, you talked about alittle bit, it was in the st the
steps, but what's one of place,a couple of places people get
stuck in the process?
SPEAKER_01 (24:39):
Well, it's so interesting talking to different
people.
Some people can make decisions.
I'd say the biggest thing ismaking decisions, like keeping
things because they meantsomething to their parents that
they inherited, or they got themas a Christmas gift.
And it's wrong to give awaygifts, or it's wrong to let go
(25:00):
of family heirlooms.
So they have a belief in theirmind that's causing them to hold
on to the item.
That's where a lot of thebreaking down your belief system
and questioning it and seeing ifyou want to continue.
Does that having that belief getyou to the point where you're
(25:22):
downsized, you're able to moveinto a house?
And is it even true?
Who told us?
SPEAKER_03 (25:29):
Yeah, is that even true?
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
Yeah, who told us that giving away a gift is not
appropriate or that it's gonnahurt someone's feelings?
I mean, we might have seen oneperson in our life get their
feelings hurt.
Now all of a sudden it's wrongto give something away that was
a gift.
Yeah, it may be wrong to give itback to them as a gift, to be
clear, but so it's just breakingsome of those beliefs down, but
(25:53):
the decision making I thinkpeople that have a hard time
getting rid of stuff, it's thatdecision making is the
challenge.
SPEAKER_03 (26:01):
Decision making, okay.
What goes into a gooddecision-making process, or is
it unique to the individual?
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
It's looking at where they want to go and then
what's keeping them from gettingthere.
So how much stuff do they wantto keep?
And then how do you letsomething go?
And it's looking at so if youone thing I've seen is that
people are worried they're gonnaneed something.
SPEAKER_03 (26:28):
I might need Oh, that's the biggest, yeah,
absolutely.
The biggest worry.
Oh, I could I might need that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
Yeah, that's useful.
I might need to use that forsomething.
Maybe, but what else could betrue?
I might not need it.
Like I might never use it.
Someone else could use it rightnow, they could be using it.
I tell this story about thethings in our lives have little
(26:55):
lives, like they have littlepersonalities.
And do we want to stick thislittle personality of this thing
in the attic for the next 20years when it could be out
having an adventure and livingits life with someone new?
So being abundant and and a goodsteward of the things that we
own.
SPEAKER_03 (27:15):
Could it be useful daily to somebody or weekly as
opposed to yearly for you?
SPEAKER_01 (27:20):
Yes, or every 10 years or whatever, or maybe
never.
SPEAKER_03 (27:26):
Okay, yeah, like that thought process because
that happens all the time.
For me, even as the the cook andand the chef in the house, it's
oh yeah.
Like literally, I wentdownstairs to go find something
the other day.
I hadn't used it in Brombolifour years.
My kitchen aid mixer, but Ineeded it to mix some dough, and
(27:47):
now it's in the kitchen, and soit's not in a proper place in
the kitchen, it sits on thefloor because we have a really
tiny kitchen, but I I use itmore now because it's there,
yeah.
So it's out of sight, out ofmind, or do you bring it into
where you want it to contain andsign and contain and have it be
useful to you?
SPEAKER_01 (28:05):
And what could you have gotten by without it if you
had given it away four yearsago?
SPEAKER_03 (28:10):
Uh the recipe says you could hand knead the dough,
but we recommend of course ittook me 20 minutes to find what
box it was in downstairs.
SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
Yes, and so we could, and a good question might
be what is the worst thing thatcould happen if you let this
item go?
SPEAKER_03 (28:31):
You buy it again, probably is the worst.
SPEAKER_01 (28:34):
Yeah, or you ask the neighbor to borrow theirs.
We used to borrow the I don'tknow, punch bowl like every year
when we had a graduation, orthis huge stockpot, because I
don't want to buy a stock pot,but if I needed one, I just went
to the neighbor and borrowedhers.
SPEAKER_03 (28:50):
Love it.
Now you're you said youryoungest is 21.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (28:54):
Right.
So are you empty nesting?
Are you close to empty nesting?
SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
We're almost there.
She just graduated from college,and then my other ones in her
doctorate finishes in December.
And so we're we're almost there.
They've both been gone for alittle bit, but then they're
here at the here now.
SPEAKER_03 (29:10):
Okay.
Are you are you consideringdownsizing?
And how are you gonna tacklethat?
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
And I know we kind of started looking at houses and
then realized, well, it wouldcost a lot more to move.
And so then we think, but whatexcites me is to imagine that
we're gonna move and go throughevery room of the house in an
organized life academy.
Each month we have an area ofthe house that we are focused
(29:35):
on, and so it's fun for mebecause I get to go in that
space with a new eye each yearwhen I do it and get rid of some
more stuff and downsize somemore things, and so it's been
fun, but now I I do, I'm almostto the official point, I guess.
Maybe it keeps coming and going,but I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (29:57):
Yeah, it keeps getting real more real and more
real.
Well what you mentioned it twicenow.
What is the Organized LifeAcademy?
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
Oh, that's my one year program where we go through
every room of the house.
We learn the steps to organizingand the mindset that you need to
go with it.
And we declutter and organizeour lives.
SPEAKER_03 (30:18):
Oh, I love that.
Okay.
So it's yours.
It's your yes.
SPEAKER_01 (30:22):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (30:22):
Organized life academy.
SPEAKER_01 (30:24):
It's been in it's in its fifth year.
2026 will start its sixth year.
SPEAKER_03 (30:30):
Okay.
And is it is how is it a like acohort each year?
Does it continue to grow?
Do people stay in it?
What does it look like?
SPEAKER_01 (30:37):
Yes.
It you can join anytime now.
I just switched that.
So you can join anytime.
The first four weeks are theorganizing boot camp where you
learn everything you need toknow.
And then you jump in and workwith us.
We have calls each week.
People have stayed in it, Ithink, more because of the
community.
They love the community.
(30:58):
We have a live event every year,and they just know each other.
They keep working, they keepdownsizing and have new goals
each year.
Like someone's goal one yearmight be to downsize and move,
but then the next year it mightbe just to go through and get
their closet more organized orget their photos organized.
(31:21):
This last month was photos, sowe worked on our photos.
So just depend on your goal andwhat you want to accomplish.
SPEAKER_03 (31:28):
That's amazing.
Well, it just popped into myhead too, right?
We're talking about emptynesting, we're talking about
downsizing and organizing, butanother aspect of that is being
the in-between between our kidslaunching and then our parents
kind of declining.
And my brother and I have justgone through that and we moved
them.
And so we did the wholedownsizing thing for them, but
also you end up with therecords.
(31:49):
Is that something that you helppeople with too?
Is like organizing thingsdigitally for you know basically
end-of-life type of things.
SPEAKER_01 (31:58):
I can refer them to people.
Like we just had a woman come inand teach us.
I have expert guests.
So we had her, she came in andtaught us about organizing your
photos, paper photos, and she'sdoing a digital photo class for
us.
And we can find resources forthose things.
Um, and we talk through it alot.
Like one of the women in ourgroup, her dad just died.
(32:22):
And I remember calling andsaying or messaging her and just
saying, What can I do for you?
And she said, Tracy, just pleasemake sure you keep telling
people, don't leave your kids amess.
Don't leave them all the stuffto go through.
Start now, start when you canand take action to get it to
where it's uh not a mess, Iguess.
(32:44):
A legacy for your kids.
SPEAKER_03 (32:46):
A legacy, yeah.
So good.
I appreciate that.
Yeah.
That my parents are both stillliving.
We moved them from a two-bedroomhouse into a two-bedroom
apartment.
Wow.
You still have bosses.
My brother has done a great jobkind of getting through them,
but there's still someremaining, but it's like so much
less so than what it had been.
SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (33:06):
And so it it's for us, it's like just a big relief
to be like, we don't have toworry this in a time of grief.
SPEAKER_01 (33:12):
Yeah, exactly.
And we're also in there, wecreate a life and death binder
which has everything you need toprepare, like to leave if
something were to happen to you.
So people know where to findthings.
And in 2026, too, we're gonnaI'm revamping that whole program
to make it like 12 sections, andyou can do one section at a time
(33:35):
to actually like really get thatdone and have it done.
But we've we've done that in thepast, and like it's so neat
seeing our oldest member is 92years old, and she has all that
ready if something were tohappen to her.
SPEAKER_03 (33:49):
And what a gift for wow, that is a gift for sure.
And that's inside the OrganizedLife Academy.
Yes, is that there amazing?
Sounds like a fantasticopportunity for people who may
be listening to go check it out.
So we'll make sure that we getit in the show notes, yes, for
people to see.
And that for me, this thisconversation has been so
enlightening as someone wholikes to be organized.
(34:11):
I say that I look around, I'mlike, I've I've got piles of
things here.
I need to see it, but I likeorganization.
So it's like even when you feellike you're organized, there's
even more that you can do.
It sounds like right.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
There's always stuff we can do, but if it has a home
and you can find it when youneed it and you can clean up
quickly, you're organized.
And I always tell people too ifyou can find things 80% of the
time that you have, I mean,that's good.
That's good enough.
You don't have to spend yourlife organizing unless you love
to, because we want to beliving, yeah, for not
(34:45):
necessarily organizing.
SPEAKER_03 (34:46):
But for the people who have the perfectionist
tendencies, they want it to beperfectly organized as opposed
to, you know, organized wellenough.
Yes.
Perfect.
What is what is one thing you'velearned about yourself teaching
other people how to beorganized?
SPEAKER_01 (35:02):
That I experience some of the same challenges, and
that I'm not, I don't know ifthe right word would be analy
organized.
I am down to earth organized.
Like I don't want to decantereverything into perfectly
matching, color-codedeverything.
I just want to know what I haveand find it when I need it, and
(35:24):
that's good enough.
And then I want to be doingother things.
SPEAKER_03 (35:27):
I love that you said down to earth organized.
It takes the pressure off.
SPEAKER_00 (35:31):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (35:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:33):
I'm a normally organized person.
SPEAKER_00 (35:35):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03 (35:36):
I love it.
So good.
So good.
Tracy, say thank you so much forbeing here today.
I think this episode is going tobe phenomenal for folks.
It's just such an enlighteningconversation.
And hopefully somebody finds thespark to start to declutter and
to get ready for what comes nextin their emptiness life.
And hopefully, some people willcome over and join the Organized
(35:58):
Life Academy if they feel likethey can't get jump started
themselves.
SPEAKER_01 (36:02):
Yes.
Jay, thanks for having me.
And do the 15-minute declutterchallenge.
Start there and then see whereyou go from there.
SPEAKER_03 (36:08):
Absolutely.
We'll throw those into the shownotes as well so people have
both and can kind of get rollingwith it.
SPEAKER_02 (36:13):
Are you ready to start living and enjoying your
empty nest years?
If so, head over tojasonramsden.com and click work
with me to get the conversationstarted.
This Empty Nest Life is aproduction of Impact One Media
LLC, all rights reserved.
One of the women in our group, her dad just died.
And I remember messaging her andjust saying, What can I do for
you?
And she said, Tracy, just pleasemake sure you keep telling
people.
Don't leave your kids a mess.
Don't leave them all this stuffto go through.
Start now, start when you canand take action.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
Welcome to this empty nest life.
Join Jay Ramsden as he leads youon a transformative journey
through the uncharted seas ofmidlife and empty nesting.
If you're ready to embark onthis new adventure and redefine
your future, you're in the rightplace.
Here's your host, the empty nestcoach, Jay Ramsden.
SPEAKER_03 (00:40):
Hey there, my emptiness friends.
I don't know about you, but oneof the things constantly on my
mind as an empty nester is howdo we get prepared to downsize?
What are the best practices?
How does it work?
And what the heck do we even dowith all the things we have?
Because, you know, deep down, weknow the kids really don't want
any of it at all.
Today I'm joined by expertorganizer Tracy Hoth of
(01:02):
SimplysquaredAway.com, and we'regonna get into it right now.
Tracy, welcome to This EmptinessLife.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Thanks, Jay, for having me.
I love talking about organizing.
SPEAKER_03 (01:13):
It's interesting because I am I am super
obsessive compulsive about beingorganized.
But when I see things, but theattic, the garage, the closets,
the drawer, basement, whatever,out of sight, out of mind, then
my OCD doesn't kick in.
So I'm just like, let's let'shave a conversation.
Because I know lots of peoplewho are empty nesters are in
(01:34):
this exact spot.
Oh my god, we need to downsize,but where do we even begin?
So let's let's tap into thatorganizational brain of yours
and decluttering brain of yours.
Where do we even start?
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
Where do we start?
I always start first just bywhat organized means.
So you're organized when youknow what you have and you can
find it when you need it.
SPEAKER_03 (01:53):
No just oh yeah, okay.
Game changer right there, right?
Where can I find it?
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
Yeah, that's what I think.
A lot of times we think it meansthat it has to look a certain
way and it has to be extraspecial and color-coded, and it
really doesn't.
And so once you have yourshoulders can relax and you can
just think, okay, do I knowwhere it is and can I find it
when I need it?
SPEAKER_03 (02:18):
That's I'm like my mind is racing right now,
literally around my house.
Do I know where it is?
And because people move, right?
They have circumstances thatcome up.
I know for us, we lost a housein a fire, had a rental, bought
a new house, and my mind isconstantly like, Well, I think I
had it at some point.
Yeah.
And that but so, but I mean Iimagine regular folks who don't
have those things happen movetoo.
(02:40):
And how do you even be like, Idon't even know where to begin.
I'm so glad we're talking, andI'm sure others are, but like,
where do you even start?
SPEAKER_01 (02:47):
Yes.
So I think first to think aboutthis is a project that you're
gonna do.
And anytime you do a project,you have a start time and
probably an end time that youwant to get it done by.
And you can break down if you'regonna downsize your whole house,
you can break it down intosections, and maybe that's a
(03:07):
little more realistic or lessoverwhelming of a start and end
time.
And then I always think youstart by following the steps to
getting organized.
And I have an acronym for thesteps, it spells space, and we
can talk through that in just aminute.
But when you first start inthinking about downsizing, take
(03:31):
a minute just to look at yourfuture self.
Like let's say in a year fromnow, in six months, whatever
amount of time, and just imaginethem with the project completed
and just take down some notes.
What does that look like?
Where do they are you in thesame house?
Have you moved?
What size house do you live in?
How much stuff do you imagineyourself you're gonna move or
(03:55):
you're gonna keep?
Just to get this really clearvision of what we're even going
toward.
Because when we say downsize,that could mean anything.
And then you don't even knowwhat your like what destination
is in the GPS.
SPEAKER_03 (04:07):
Got it.
All right, so start at the end,like with the end in mind.
SPEAKER_01 (04:10):
Yes.
Look at it, imagine it.
SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
Imagine it.
Let's say I was actually hadtalking to somebody before who
is an entrepreneur who's RVing.
And so we had some similarconversation about stuff and the
overwhelm of stuff.
So if we start with the end inmind, that person, the end in
mind was an RV, and that's whatthey do, they travel the country
in an RV.
But what does it look like?
(04:33):
And it's so open-ended forpeople.
So what if they can't evenanswer that?
Is there is there like a halfwaypoint for them where you advise
them here's an here's here'ssomeplace you can start with
that?
It's like even like for me, evena drawer that we can tackle.
Like where that's where my braingoes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Yes.
So there's no magic answer.
So it would depend.
Like if you can imagine thefuture and you know you want to
move in six months.
Like, I have a couple that'sgonna move in six months.
And so they know the size ofhouse they want.
And now, as they're goingthrough each room in their
house, they know what they needto do.
And one of the things we talkedabout was in each room, put a
(05:14):
box of donate, a box that you'regonna keep, and pack each room
up individually with the thingsthat you're gonna keep.
And then you know these thingsare gonna go into the guest
room.
You can be as perfectionist asthat as you're going through
things.
So you're kind of packing up thethings you want and then leaving
some maybe things out if you'renot sure, putting some donate
(05:36):
stuff in that you're sure ofdonating.
So that's one way to go aboutit.
But let's back up a minute, evenjust in learning how to
organize.
If you know the steps to gettingorganized, you can organize
absolutely anything in yourlife, your mind, your house, a
drawer, your digital files, yourattic.
Like you can organize anything,your calendar by following the
(06:00):
steps.
And in order to get good at thesteps, break it down into small
areas, like you just said, adrawer.
Grab your purse, do the frontseat of your car, do a counter,
a section of a countertop.
Just pick an area and thenfollow the steps.
So I have a 15-minute declutterchallenge that you can download
(06:22):
and follow these exact steps.
It spells it out for youperfectly and walks you through
exactly what to do.
But the first step to organizinganything is to sort.
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
Okay, that's the S in space.
SPEAKER_01 (06:35):
That's the Sort.
SPEAKER_03 (06:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
Yep.
And the reason what most peopledo is they walk into a space and
they're like, okay, I gotta getrid of some stuff.
And they first look at somethingand they're like, Well, I don't
know.
And then they leave because it'stoo overwhelming.
They try to make decisions.
So first step is to sort.
SPEAKER_03 (06:55):
Okay.
First step sort.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
And you just put like items with like items.
If it's a drawer, you take thethings out of the drawer and put
pencils here, office supplieshere, paper here.
SPEAKER_03 (07:10):
Closet, it would be you know, suits and put you
know, PJs there and whateverelse that you have in your
closet.
SPEAKER_00 (07:17):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (07:20):
Next is P a P.
What's that?
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
Purge.
Purge.
And so I like in this step to dothere's a couple options.
I like to choose my favorites.
So you if you do the favoritesmethod, and I used to teach this
to kids, like if parents aregonna help kids do it, but then
I'm like, well, this works greatfor parents too.
So you pick your favorite thing.
(07:44):
If you're looking at uh yourpile of pens, you pick the
favorite pen that you use allthe time.
If you're looking at your jeans,you pick the ones that you wear
all the time that are yourfavorites that fit.
And so then you go to the otherthings, and then there's a list
of questions like, have I usedthis in the last six months, 12
months?
(08:04):
Does it fit?
Does it work?
All those types of questionsthat are helpful.
Does it fit into the future thatI'm envisioning?
Does it help me get to my goal?
If so, keep it.
If not, then you can let it go.
SPEAKER_03 (08:21):
I like the fit piece, Tracy.
Does it fit my body, but alsodoes it fit my life, like in a
regular way?
Because we all know people whohave closets.
I used to, you know, my Iactually got my closet to a
point where I think I would youwould be like, okay, Jay, you've
done a good job with thiscloset.
Okay.
Is I used to have a closet ofdouble X and XL and large, and I
(08:46):
was like keeping everything ofooh, I could might need this at
some point in the future if Iget off this habit of exercise
and eating.
Oh, just hold on to it, but I'vedone away with that.
And so I I think that's whatyou're saying.
Is like, does it fit into mylife and does it fit into the
space?
Does it fit me?
It's like almost a triangle offit.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
Yes, I love that.
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (09:06):
Feel free to use it and take it away.
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
I will.
SPEAKER_03 (09:10):
Okay, so then the A, we've we've sorted and purged.
SPEAKER_01 (09:13):
So now we know what we're keeping, and now we assign
a home to it.
Assign homes.
SPEAKER_03 (09:17):
Oh, assign.
I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
And this part's a little bit of a puzzle.
You're deciding where's it gonnago?
Can I access it quickly?
Does it fit into a zone?
Like if we have the bakingstuff, all could be together.
We have a reading zone that haseverything we need for reading
in our bookshelf and a basket ofpens or whatever you need.
(09:39):
But think about how is it fit inmy life?
And sometimes it's a little bitof a testing.
You're gonna test it and see ifyou like where it where it is,
and then you can always makechanges to it.
SPEAKER_03 (09:51):
Okay.
So for people who are thinkingabout you know, downside it, but
they kind of have an idea ofwhat they place, but they don't
have a timeline for that.
Like they could literally testand rerun the system again.
SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
Oh, for sure.
Yes, right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:06):
They could test it out and be like, oh, I'm gonna
sort and purge and design again.
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:10):
And then also the C and E, but we're not there yet.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
Yes.
Yeah, yes.
And you're gonna do this.
I think of it like an onion andit has many layers.
So the first time, especially ifyou have a lot of stuff, the
first time you can get rid of20% of it or whatever, is just
anything that's easy.
And the next time you go throughthat space or that room, you get
through a little more stuff, andthen the next time you're like,
Why did I even keep this?
(10:34):
And you're able to get rid ofthat.
So it could be this process, andthere's not necessarily a rush
unless you want to move in threemonths.
Then maybe you do want to do it.
SPEAKER_03 (10:43):
Yeah, there's no timeline.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we've done the sorting, thepurge, the assigning.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
Once you assign home, the next step is to
contain.
Now you know where it is, youknow what it needs to help
contain it, to help it keep keepit neat.
You might want to add somebaskets because it looks good,
but it also keeps it in space inthe spot.
And the purpose of that is sothat when it reaches its limit,
you know to go back through thesteps.
SPEAKER_03 (11:10):
Oh, so if I had a whatever a drawer, a drawer, a
box, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
Yeah.
And your drawer is full or yoursection of the drawer is
overflowing.
You're like, okay, I need to goback through here and go through
the steps.
SPEAKER_03 (11:25):
Yeah.
That does the contain piece alsoinclude, I've heard people say
as well, like it inflow into thehome, right?
Other items coming into thathouse.
Does that piece play into thecontainment too?
Like you try to contain nothaving more stuff coming in to
have to do something with.
SPEAKER_01 (11:44):
I haven't really thought of that, but I that did
make me think of when you thinkabout the container of your
house, you have that size, andyou can think this is the right
size for me.
This is what I have right now.
The container of the housebreaks down into the container
of each room, breaks down tomaybe the drawer of a dresser or
(12:05):
the size of your closet.
That is your container.
So you break that further downand use containers, drawer
divider, shelf dividers, piecesof furniture, bookshelves.
You can use all those things tocontain what you have.
And a lot of people want tostart here.
SPEAKER_03 (12:23):
They oh, for sure.
I can see it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
Buy Target to Target and buy all the cute bins.
They look at pictures andthey're like, oh, I need all
these containers.
I always say, do not buyanything until you get to this
step.
And then shop your house first,use what you have, and then you
can go buy something morebeautiful or aesthetically
pleasing if you want to, afteryou know that it works.
SPEAKER_03 (12:49):
Shop your house first.
I love that.
That's going to be the goldennugget, right?
Because there are so many thingsin our house where we can be
like, oh, I have extra bowls.
We can use that to put thecarrot coffee things in.
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
Yes, Tupperware that you can use as a drawer divider
in your bathroom.
You know, there's so manydifferent things you can use.
Plus, when you what I see when Ihave, because I've been
organizing in people's homes for17 years, I don't do it anymore,
but you are emptying all thesecontainers out when you're
sorting.
So then when you finish sorting,you have a lot of empty
(13:22):
containers or bins or basketsthat you are piling up.
And sometimes it's the hugestpile that for sure you can chop
there first.
SPEAKER_03 (13:32):
Got it.
What do you do with all theextra hangers?
Before we get to the E.
Yeah.
That just popped in my head,right?
When you're decluttering acloset, you end up with all the
extra hangers.
SPEAKER_01 (13:41):
I know.
Then what we do is we move theminto the laundry room on the rod
in the laundry room, and theneventually they just disappear
again.
I don't know what happens tothem.
But you can donate them.
SPEAKER_03 (13:52):
They leave the house with the socks that go missing.
The hangers, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
Yeah.
But you can donate them, you cangive them away.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:01):
I guess they would people that take clothes need
hangers too, right?
Yeah.
So goodwill or whomever.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (14:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:06):
What about the E?
SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
And then the E is energize.
So when you organize, peoplethink it's draining.
No, it energizes you.
When you look at that, go backto it and just revel in the
beauty that you've just createdin this organized space and then
ensure that it stays that way.
So you're going to maintain thespace so that you maintain your
(14:30):
energy.
And when I think about this, Ithink we have cleared space so
that we can put our energy inother things.
We don't want to be organizingfor the rest of our life.
We want to organize it and keepit that way so that we have that
free flow of energy and time tobe put into the things that we
(14:51):
love and relationships and thethings that we want to do in our
life.
SPEAKER_03 (14:54):
I love that.
Like you could change space tospacer or spaced and for either
repeat or do it again.
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
Oh, that's true.
SPEAKER_03 (15:04):
And then it's not a one and done, right?
You're going to do it multipletimes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
Yeah.
And in the in this last step tomaintain something, the secret
is to tie it to something thatyou already do.
SPEAKER_03 (15:16):
Oh, yeah.
Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
Yeah.
If you do taxes every year, youtie cleaning out your file
cabinet or your paper, whereverthat goes, you clean that out at
the same time.
If you have live in a placewhere seasons change, you can go
through your closet when theseason changes.
Or an easy one is you buygroceries and you bring
(15:39):
groceries into the house.
Before you bring the groceriesin, you clean out your fridge or
clean out your pantry.
Just do a quick tidy up check.
Make sure everything in there isrelevant.
And then it always stays thatway.
SPEAKER_03 (15:51):
I love that.
Yeah.
I've started doing that with mycloset.
If I do buy new clothes, then Iwhen I bring the new clothes in,
I have to take out some clothesthat I don't use regularly.
That's that's where I've gottento.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:06):
If everybody would just follow that rule, we would
all it would be so much easier.
SPEAKER_03 (16:11):
Yeah, well, what it came, what it came to for me,
Tracy, is I do our wash, right?
I'm the guy who does the washand the cooking and the cleaning
and everything.
And I was like, I wear the samestuff over and over and over.
We all do, right?
But we don't really internalizethat this is what we wear all of
the time.
Even had that conversation withmy wife.
I'm like, we get rid of some ofthese pajamas, and she's like,
(16:33):
No, I wear them all.
I'm like, No, you don't.
Here's the three or four thatyou wear because I wash them and
it's the same ones over and overand over again.
Because they go back in the topof the drawer and you just pull
them out and we recycle them.
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:46):
So okay.
I love the acronym because itgives people a way to be like,
okay, what's the next step?
So, but when we finish it, wetalked a little bit about it,
like the repeat or thedo-it-again.
But do how do we keep how do wekeep the momentum going?
SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
Yes.
Well, to keep the spacemaintained, you're gonna create
a habit to keep it that way.
But then you just move to thenext space.
And I always say start withsomething that either would have
the biggest impact on you orthat would make you the
happiest, like the easiest placeyou could start for a quick win,
(17:20):
and it would make you beappreciative that you have that
win.
So it doesn't necessarily matterwhere you start and then you
just keep going.
The key is to schedule it,right?
Because if we don't schedule it,I was just talking to my the
group of empty nesters andorganized life academy, and they
(17:41):
were saying, Well, I wouldprobably do better if I
scheduled it.
And I'm like, Yes, we have toschedule what we want to get
done, even if we don't put it ona specific time of the day, but
schedule it, look at the weekand put it on the day you're
gonna work on it or the days andmake that a priority for that
(18:01):
day to get the job done.
SPEAKER_03 (18:04):
Okay, so my mind goes, We have a basement in this
house.
It's um, you know, a conditionedspace that was built for
somebody at some point who ownedthe house.
And I know that's basically ouraddict.
So we've got everything when wemoved here, anything that wasn't
going in the top part of thehouse is still in boxes down
there, literally four yearslater.
(18:24):
And my brain goes through thissort, purge, assign is I look at
it as oh my god, I gotta do thewhole thing.
But do you recommend gridding itand being like, oh, I'm gonna do
this two foot by two foot squareand do the sort and the purge
and the assign and the canecontain for that, or that just
the sort and the purge part?
(18:45):
Like are there can you break thethe five steps into a couple
steps in a larger room likethat?
SPEAKER_01 (18:50):
Yes, there's two ways that you could do it that I
think I would help someone do.
One is that you're gonna sorteverything before you move to
purge.
unknown (19:00):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (19:01):
So you would empty everything out in the space and
sort it all around the spaceinto categories because then
when you go to the purge step,you have everything that you own
in that category there so youcan make decisions.
Making decisions is easier to beable to do that.
Now that comes first if you havethe space to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_03 (19:24):
Oh, yeah, there's no floor space.
Okay.
You dance around boxes to try tofind seasonal things in there.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
Yes.
So you could move everythingout, you could pull it out and
move it into another area.
But the other option then is youtake one box at a time and you
go through the steps.
SPEAKER_04 (19:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (19:44):
So you sort that box, you purge the things you
don't want to keep, you assignhomes to things.
So then you're you when you'reorganizing a lot of stuff, you
get to the point where, like,well, Tracy, that doesn't really
have a home.
You decide where the home isgonna be and you put it as close
to the home as you can get it.
Or in a temporary home.
(20:06):
So if it's some stuff in thatbox were Christmas things that
you want to keep, you're gonnadecide where Christmas is gonna
live until you finish the spacewhere Christmas is, or you stick
it in there as best you can getit to be by the home that will
be its home.
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_03 (20:25):
It makes perfect sense.
And now that I think about it,like it's my son's stuff, my
daughter stuff from the move.
You know, they have their ownapartments now, but they're
like, we we don't have room forit in ours.
We don't have rooms from there.
Yeah, exactly.
And then it's like kitchen stuffand seasonal stuff, and so it's
kind of sorted from the box.
Okay, so it's really moreopening the boxes and starting
(20:47):
to organize it to purge thattype of those types of things.
SPEAKER_01 (20:52):
Okay, yeah, and when you think about that, one box
could be the 15-minute declutterchallenge.
Like you could just take onebox, do the steps on it, and
then you'll have a free box.
And then you take the next boxand you follow the organizing
steps, and you get through onemore box.
And that could take just 15minutes, 30 minutes, an hour
(21:16):
once a week, and you could bemoving through that stuff
instead of looking at it like,oh, this whole space, there's so
much stuff, it's sooverwhelming.
So I think it's helpful, andthat's why I made the 15-minute
declutter challenge so that wedon't stay stuck, that we can
get started and that we canbreak it down into little
(21:36):
chunks.
SPEAKER_03 (21:37):
Yeah.
I mean, this is literally and Ithink it's helpful for the
listeners to hear an actualscenario, right?
Because their brain goes, Oh, Ihave one of those.
Yeah.
And so my brain goes, Well,these are all moving boxes.
So I can't put stuff back intothem because they're all old and
crappy and decrepit movingboxes.
So then my brain goes, I gottarun to Lowe's and get a bunch of
(21:58):
containers.
SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
What?
No, exactly.
That's where my brain isbringing containers.
No, wait until you know whatsize container you need.
That's why I say the middle oforganizing is kind of messy
because you're gonna put thestuff with that category.
And then once you go through thecategory purge, then you know
(22:19):
where it's gonna live.
And people that buy botcontainers, a lot of times the
containers don't even fit on theshelves that they have, so you
have to wait and see like, is itgonna fit on this shelf and the
container?
I need to measure then, and nowI know exactly what I need.
SPEAKER_03 (22:35):
Got it.
Well, what if it's an attic?
What if it's a it's just a bigspace where containers can live
free?
SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
Then maybe you can start a container.
Like, if you know that, here'san example.
We have an attic space, and ourkids are in their transition
years, they're kind of movingpast that.
My youngest is 21.
But as they've moved out of thehouse, they've had memorabilia
type stuff where we've cleanedtheir room out and they've had
(23:03):
stuff.
So we do buy the big tubs withthe yellow lids from Costco.
And we I bought some for eachkid, and then we've been putting
stuff as we find it into thatcategory.
So that is its home, and we knowexactly we have free space, we
don't have shelves, so we canstack those on top of each
other.
And when our kid moves out, thenwe can just give them the tub.
(23:24):
So in that instance, we knowwhere its home is gonna be,
eventually their house.
And we know that it doesn't haveto fit on a shelf.
So you're right.
In that instance, buying acontainer for that to put things
in as we gather them washelpful.
SPEAKER_03 (23:40):
Got it.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (23:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:42):
You just said something interesting, like
sorting kids' stuff into boxesthat they can take into their
house.
What's the timeline for keepingthat stuff?
SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
I know.
I talk to so many people andthey're like, well, we have our
kids' stuff and they just don'thave room at their apartment or
their, you know, whatever.
And so I don't think there's anyrule, whatever works for you.
I mean, if you're downsizing andyou run out of space, obviously
you take it to them.
Sometimes it's helpful for whenthe kid comes home, they go
(24:12):
through it and they decide,like, what do I even really want
to keep in here?
After they've been away for awhile, they come back and
they're like, Oh, well, do Ireally want this to live at my
house?
I don't think so.
So then they're able to get ridof it more than they were when
they got out of high school orcollege.
SPEAKER_03 (24:28):
Yeah, when they finished.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (24:29):
What's what's one of the biggest?
I mean, you talked about alittle bit, it was in the st the
steps, but what's one of place,a couple of places people get
stuck in the process?
SPEAKER_01 (24:39):
Well, it's so interesting talking to different
people.
Some people can make decisions.
I'd say the biggest thing ismaking decisions, like keeping
things because they meantsomething to their parents that
they inherited, or they got themas a Christmas gift.
And it's wrong to give awaygifts, or it's wrong to let go
(25:00):
of family heirlooms.
So they have a belief in theirmind that's causing them to hold
on to the item.
That's where a lot of thebreaking down your belief system
and questioning it and seeing ifyou want to continue.
Does that having that belief getyou to the point where you're
(25:22):
downsized, you're able to moveinto a house?
And is it even true?
Who told us?
SPEAKER_03 (25:29):
Yeah, is that even true?
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
Yeah, who told us that giving away a gift is not
appropriate or that it's gonnahurt someone's feelings?
I mean, we might have seen oneperson in our life get their
feelings hurt.
Now all of a sudden it's wrongto give something away that was
a gift.
Yeah, it may be wrong to give itback to them as a gift, to be
clear, but so it's just breakingsome of those beliefs down, but
(25:53):
the decision making I thinkpeople that have a hard time
getting rid of stuff, it's thatdecision making is the
challenge.
SPEAKER_03 (26:01):
Decision making, okay.
What goes into a gooddecision-making process, or is
it unique to the individual?
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
It's looking at where they want to go and then
what's keeping them from gettingthere.
So how much stuff do they wantto keep?
And then how do you letsomething go?
And it's looking at so if youone thing I've seen is that
people are worried they're gonnaneed something.
SPEAKER_03 (26:28):
I might need Oh, that's the biggest, yeah,
absolutely.
The biggest worry.
Oh, I could I might need that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
Yeah, that's useful.
I might need to use that forsomething.
Maybe, but what else could betrue?
I might not need it.
Like I might never use it.
Someone else could use it rightnow, they could be using it.
I tell this story about thethings in our lives have little
(26:55):
lives, like they have littlepersonalities.
And do we want to stick thislittle personality of this thing
in the attic for the next 20years when it could be out
having an adventure and livingits life with someone new?
So being abundant and and a goodsteward of the things that we
own.
SPEAKER_03 (27:15):
Could it be useful daily to somebody or weekly as
opposed to yearly for you?
SPEAKER_01 (27:20):
Yes, or every 10 years or whatever, or maybe
never.
SPEAKER_03 (27:26):
Okay, yeah, like that thought process because
that happens all the time.
For me, even as the the cook andand the chef in the house, it's
oh yeah.
Like literally, I wentdownstairs to go find something
the other day.
I hadn't used it in Brombolifour years.
My kitchen aid mixer, but Ineeded it to mix some dough, and
(27:47):
now it's in the kitchen, and soit's not in a proper place in
the kitchen, it sits on thefloor because we have a really
tiny kitchen, but I I use itmore now because it's there,
yeah.
So it's out of sight, out ofmind, or do you bring it into
where you want it to contain andsign and contain and have it be
useful to you?
SPEAKER_01 (28:05):
And what could you have gotten by without it if you
had given it away four yearsago?
SPEAKER_03 (28:10):
Uh the recipe says you could hand knead the dough,
but we recommend of course ittook me 20 minutes to find what
box it was in downstairs.
SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
Yes, and so we could, and a good question might
be what is the worst thing thatcould happen if you let this
item go?
SPEAKER_03 (28:31):
You buy it again, probably is the worst.
SPEAKER_01 (28:34):
Yeah, or you ask the neighbor to borrow theirs.
We used to borrow the I don'tknow, punch bowl like every year
when we had a graduation, orthis huge stockpot, because I
don't want to buy a stock pot,but if I needed one, I just went
to the neighbor and borrowedhers.
SPEAKER_03 (28:50):
Love it.
Now you're you said youryoungest is 21.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (28:54):
Right.
So are you empty nesting?
Are you close to empty nesting?
SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
We're almost there.
She just graduated from college,and then my other ones in her
doctorate finishes in December.
And so we're we're almost there.
They've both been gone for alittle bit, but then they're
here at the here now.
SPEAKER_03 (29:10):
Okay.
Are you are you consideringdownsizing?
And how are you gonna tacklethat?
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
And I know we kind of started looking at houses and
then realized, well, it wouldcost a lot more to move.
And so then we think, but whatexcites me is to imagine that
we're gonna move and go throughevery room of the house in an
organized life academy.
Each month we have an area ofthe house that we are focused
(29:35):
on, and so it's fun for mebecause I get to go in that
space with a new eye each yearwhen I do it and get rid of some
more stuff and downsize somemore things, and so it's been
fun, but now I I do, I'm almostto the official point, I guess.
Maybe it keeps coming and going,but I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (29:57):
Yeah, it keeps getting real more real and more
real.
Well what you mentioned it twicenow.
What is the Organized LifeAcademy?
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
Oh, that's my one year program where we go through
every room of the house.
We learn the steps to organizingand the mindset that you need to
go with it.
And we declutter and organizeour lives.
SPEAKER_03 (30:18):
Oh, I love that.
Okay.
So it's yours.
It's your yes.
SPEAKER_01 (30:22):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (30:22):
Organized life academy.
SPEAKER_01 (30:24):
It's been in it's in its fifth year.
2026 will start its sixth year.
SPEAKER_03 (30:30):
Okay.
And is it is how is it a like acohort each year?
Does it continue to grow?
Do people stay in it?
What does it look like?
SPEAKER_01 (30:37):
Yes.
It you can join anytime now.
I just switched that.
So you can join anytime.
The first four weeks are theorganizing boot camp where you
learn everything you need toknow.
And then you jump in and workwith us.
We have calls each week.
People have stayed in it, Ithink, more because of the
community.
They love the community.
(30:58):
We have a live event every year,and they just know each other.
They keep working, they keepdownsizing and have new goals
each year.
Like someone's goal one yearmight be to downsize and move,
but then the next year it mightbe just to go through and get
their closet more organized orget their photos organized.
(31:21):
This last month was photos, sowe worked on our photos.
So just depend on your goal andwhat you want to accomplish.
SPEAKER_03 (31:28):
That's amazing.
Well, it just popped into myhead too, right?
We're talking about emptynesting, we're talking about
downsizing and organizing, butanother aspect of that is being
the in-between between our kidslaunching and then our parents
kind of declining.
And my brother and I have justgone through that and we moved
them.
And so we did the wholedownsizing thing for them, but
also you end up with therecords.
(31:49):
Is that something that you helppeople with too?
Is like organizing thingsdigitally for you know basically
end-of-life type of things.
SPEAKER_01 (31:58):
I can refer them to people.
Like we just had a woman come inand teach us.
I have expert guests.
So we had her, she came in andtaught us about organizing your
photos, paper photos, and she'sdoing a digital photo class for
us.
And we can find resources forthose things.
Um, and we talk through it alot.
Like one of the women in ourgroup, her dad just died.
(32:22):
And I remember calling andsaying or messaging her and just
saying, What can I do for you?
And she said, Tracy, just pleasemake sure you keep telling
people, don't leave your kids amess.
Don't leave them all the stuffto go through.
Start now, start when you canand take action to get it to
where it's uh not a mess, Iguess.
(32:44):
A legacy for your kids.
SPEAKER_03 (32:46):
A legacy, yeah.
So good.
I appreciate that.
Yeah.
That my parents are both stillliving.
We moved them from a two-bedroomhouse into a two-bedroom
apartment.
Wow.
You still have bosses.
My brother has done a great jobkind of getting through them,
but there's still someremaining, but it's like so much
less so than what it had been.
SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (33:06):
And so it it's for us, it's like just a big relief
to be like, we don't have toworry this in a time of grief.
SPEAKER_01 (33:12):
Yeah, exactly.
And we're also in there, wecreate a life and death binder
which has everything you need toprepare, like to leave if
something were to happen to you.
So people know where to findthings.
And in 2026, too, we're gonnaI'm revamping that whole program
to make it like 12 sections, andyou can do one section at a time
(33:35):
to actually like really get thatdone and have it done.
But we've we've done that in thepast, and like it's so neat
seeing our oldest member is 92years old, and she has all that
ready if something were tohappen to her.
SPEAKER_03 (33:49):
And what a gift for wow, that is a gift for sure.
And that's inside the OrganizedLife Academy.
Yes, is that there amazing?
Sounds like a fantasticopportunity for people who may
be listening to go check it out.
So we'll make sure that we getit in the show notes, yes, for
people to see.
And that for me, this thisconversation has been so
enlightening as someone wholikes to be organized.
(34:11):
I say that I look around, I'mlike, I've I've got piles of
things here.
I need to see it, but I likeorganization.
So it's like even when you feellike you're organized, there's
even more that you can do.
It sounds like right.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
There's always stuff we can do, but if it has a home
and you can find it when youneed it and you can clean up
quickly, you're organized.
And I always tell people too ifyou can find things 80% of the
time that you have, I mean,that's good.
That's good enough.
You don't have to spend yourlife organizing unless you love
to, because we want to beliving, yeah, for not
(34:45):
necessarily organizing.
SPEAKER_03 (34:46):
But for the people who have the perfectionist
tendencies, they want it to beperfectly organized as opposed
to, you know, organized wellenough.
Yes.
Perfect.
What is what is one thing you'velearned about yourself teaching
other people how to beorganized?
SPEAKER_01 (35:02):
That I experience some of the same challenges, and
that I'm not, I don't know ifthe right word would be analy
organized.
I am down to earth organized.
Like I don't want to decantereverything into perfectly
matching, color-codedeverything.
I just want to know what I haveand find it when I need it, and
(35:24):
that's good enough.
And then I want to be doingother things.
SPEAKER_03 (35:27):
I love that you said down to earth organized.
It takes the pressure off.
SPEAKER_00 (35:31):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (35:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:33):
I'm a normally organized person.
SPEAKER_00 (35:35):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03 (35:36):
I love it.
So good.
So good.
Tracy, say thank you so much forbeing here today.
I think this episode is going tobe phenomenal for folks.
It's just such an enlighteningconversation.
And hopefully somebody finds thespark to start to declutter and
to get ready for what comes nextin their emptiness life.
And hopefully, some people willcome over and join the Organized
(35:58):
Life Academy if they feel likethey can't get jump started
themselves.
SPEAKER_01 (36:02):
Yes.
Jay, thanks for having me.
And do the 15-minute declutterchallenge.
Start there and then see whereyou go from there.
SPEAKER_03 (36:08):
Absolutely.
We'll throw those into the shownotes as well so people have
both and can kind of get rollingwith it.
SPEAKER_02 (36:13):
Are you ready to start living and enjoying your
empty nest years?
If so, head over tojasonramsden.com and click work
with me to get the conversationstarted.
This Empty Nest Life is aproduction of Impact One Media
LLC, all rights reserved.
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